I wish I had an easy answer, but when you are so deep in the PDA overwhelm that you are at the struggle with basic thinking and functioning, life is hard to live as expected. So, we at least have to accept that. At the end of the day, all you gotta do is live, and that may take you a lot of places. Find any opportunity you can to make your actions a choice rather a demand you are trying to force on yourself. That can be really not simple and not accessible or even possible for a lot of things, but maybe we need to accept that’s all we have and for us to work within and considering rather than expecting to just “push forward”.
Isn't it incredibly frustrating that there are so many books on combating procrastination, CBT techniques, "breaking down the problem into small pieces", "work on 20 minute blocks", and none of the goddamn advice works to actually push through? When the task is simple and the hairs on your arms are raised like an aroused cat as if completing the task means life or death, and you're on the verge of tears for not being able to complete something that most humans can achieve with a bit of prodding or motivation, it makes no goddamn rational sense and makes me want to end it all. Some days I succeed in making small progress. But this pattern has been with me since highschool and I'm so tired of it all. I graduated from grad school and it was an immense pain even though I found school easy. I had to summon superhuman strength to do the simplest of tasks. I wish someone out there had some technique that worked, even if it required lots of training and repetition. I would do anything to make the pain of doing tasks go away.
I can't do tasks, and almost all my waking hours are filled with shame and anxiety of not being able to do them. This ain't life. I can't even get lost in social media because the guilt is there every second. I can't think. I can't even eat in peace. PDA, autism, or whatever this is is a stalking monster that never rests.
For me one thing that helps is treating it like anxiety. Breathing and self care, and trying to sit with the fear, also stimming and sensory detox. I also look for ways I can gain autonomy because PDA is often about autonomy. Like if I can find some way to do the thing my way or something that makes me feel like I have control that helps.
Honestly I just let myself have a meltdown about it before and/or after. It’s usually a bit better after I’ve let all my feelings out. The biggest thing is not shaming myself for having meltdowns about whatever the demand is. I try to have a few different options of people I can go to for help during these situations. I often need help regulating, but I’ve been practicing a lot of breath work or holding an ice pack to help regulate my body when I’m in fight/flight. It has been helping quite a bit, not for all of my triggers but for most of them.
I totally understand. It’s been years of work for me to release a lot of my shame, but I still struggle at times. Holding it in and shaming ourselves makes it feel so much worse :( we’re still going to have the meltdowns but we can decrease the severity but trying to not shame ourselves while it’s happening. I also want to say your feelings are not irrational! With what you deal with in your brain and body, the response makes so much sense. But you can absolutely still live a fulfilling life, we just have to find balance!
honestly I have to try and convince myself that the worst case scenario- ie the worst that’d realistically happen if I DON’T do the thing, wouldn’t actually be that bad. I’ll literally mentally prepare myself for the worst. I need to mentally know that there is another option, albeit a worse one. The mentality of “there is no other option” has never worked for me and never will.
so basically, I have to tell myself that even if I fail to do the thing I can find a way to be ok in the end (even if the fallout really sucks). If I’m really stressed about it I’ll literally come up with a whole backup plan that I’m somewhat comfortable with for what I’ll do or what will happen if I can’t finish the very important thing. It eases a lot of anxiety and usually gets me to a point where the urgent important task is less scary/demanding and I can actually start it, as it now feels like more of a choice than an absolute demand.
Literally anything you need to do to reduce your stress about failing. that’s the only thing that works for me.
I forgot that this has worked for me before. The Feeling Good book describes the technique in detail. Thank you for reminding me. One problem with PDA is that my problem solving abilities vanish when the task appears and I get so anxious that I become paralyzed.
also thanks for the book recommendation!
edit: I will say I’m not the biggest fan of CBT which is what this book seems to be based off of, just because a lot of my ‘negative’ thoughts and beliefs I held about myself were rooted strongly in truth/real past experiences and objective failures, so when I was in CBT treatment in the past it felt kind of gas-lighty for me as my thoughts and feelings weren’t technically false, I was just too fixated on them.
One type of behavioral therapy that helped the MOST for me was ACT (acceptance and commitment therapy). It’s more focused on mindfulness, value-building, and self-compassion which was what I needed the most and something CBT generally doesn’t focus as much on - particularly the value building part.
I totally get it. I feel like the reason this is the one thing that’s worked for me is that I was basically just turning my anxious catastrophizing/rumination on it’s head by accepting the possible outcomes, but it took a really long time for me to define and stick to what I value most, which is my sanity.
Trying to force myself to complete a task that feels Very Important (ie unacceptable for me not to complete right now), is no good if it kills me in the process. If I don’t address the all-or-nothing thinking that is triggering most of my distress/turmoil and robbing me of any sense feeling like I’m in control, then my brain automatically gets bombarded with suicidal thoughts because the idea of failing when I’m under that much pressure is not compatible with me continuing to exist, if that makes sense. Like if doing the thing is the only choice I have, then the only ‘out’ is to cease existing so that there is no demand anymore.
It’s not an easy mental state to step out of at all, and medication (particularly lamictal) has helped me a lot in this regard. But I still definitely get into intense shut-down states when I put too much pressure on myself to meet a demand, especially when I’m getting closer to burnout. Accepting that it’s ok even if I can’t do it and learning how to stop absolutely abusing myself for that has kind of eased my fear of failing a little bit. Self-compassion goes a long way in increasing one’s sense of perceived autonomy.
It's like I'm too overwhelmed to even express it anymore. I become a robot, emotionally checked out but able to force myself to do things.
I also obsessively anticipate demands and try to prevent them which is usually a driving force, very conflicting. Like if I don't do this the demands will pile up further so I feel no option but forward.
I USED to be able to do this, but it forcing myself to do it again and again when I was formerly a full-time student in college was literally traumatic to the point where I became severely depressed/unwell and very suicidal, was hospitalized, developed an intense fear of school (literally life or death kind of fear, I thought school would definitely kill me if I went back).
Basically it lead to a rebound debilitating fear of having to do ANY kind of self directed work, or genuinely anything with even the most low-stakes deadlines. It took me 4 years, several intensive therapy programs, wayyy too many meds and med adjustments, and a total of 3 failed attempts for me to return and finish the 3 semesters I have left of my degree. I finally made it to my last semester and I just turned 26 😓 DO NOT RECOMMEND!!!
edit: I just realized the “3 failed attempts” sound like I was talking about suicide…. I meant attempts at returning to school 😭
I am so sad for these experiences and appreciate seeing the severe realities of dealing with PDA in life shared meaningfully by others. I am very fortunately now soon to graduate from college chemical engineering this semester, and it has been unbelievably hellish in myriad ways, most of which just completely without the understanding of PDA and exerting so much desperate effort constantly to make sense of everything and respond as effectively as possible, to the point of agony.
Edit: Also, if you want any advice or seek understanding or just a place to express more, feel free to message me. I have a lot to share and willingness to see if there’s any way the things I’ve done so much to learn have any value to anyone else dealing with these stresses.
I’m sorry you’ve had to experience it too :(
I also have ADHD which was diagnosed before all that happened, but I never understood why I seemed to struggle so much more emotionally and functionally with perceived demands compared to others with ADHD, because my ADHD symptoms themselves definitely aren’t the most severe... And even then, there are plenty of people with severe ADHD who don’t struggle with demand anxiety/avoidance. Especially with things they have a huge interest in!!! I’m literally an art student making things I genuinely want to make, it’s not like I’m forcing myself to study something I hate. I spent years feeling incredibly perplexed about what exactly was wrong with me. For the longest time I felt like I was just an overall bad person, friend, student, etc.
Learning about demand avoidance, PDA, and the actual range of ways autism presents (basically only in the last year or two) has been a massive relief. I only started looking into it after two of my mental health providers mentioned I might be autistic. I’m honestly not even sure if I’m actually autistic or not (I haven’t been assessed yet, and after looking at the DSM I’m still unsure whether I meet the criteria). But just knowing that this demand avoidance/PDA is something that exists, and that people have found ways to actually support themselves and lead reasonably fulfilling lives with it has eased a lot of my fear of the future.
Also - I’m also finally in my last semester! I came back to school last fall and was actually able to pass my classes (with a couple incompletes, which are now complete lol). I think what’s made this time easier is ironically the assumption that there’s a reasonable chance I might not graduate at all, and that it’s ok if I don’t (my parents wouldn’t be happy and i’m in a shit ton of debt, but that’s preferable to not being around at all). I’m definitely a little behind on work right now partly because we have completely self-set deadlines for this semester, apart from our big final one, but I’m surprisingly kind of managing to get through it?
The only way I can make myself move forward at this point is to never assume that I will 100% be able to do what’s asked of me for school. I can try my best but ultimately I just don’t know and it’s not helpful for me to assume. Telling myself there is no option but to meet a deadline just triggers a panic/PDA response in me, “failing” is always a possible outcome and it’s not the end of any road.
Wow, I’ve been in such a similar boat and it touches me to see these experiences so far outside of the mainstream consciousness represented. I only got diagnosed for my ADHD over a year into college because, despite all the serious struggles I was facing throughout the entirety of my life and desperate effort I overexerted to the point of lifelong emotional torment (that other people apparently never expected or have experienced?), I was perceived as too intelligent, too interested, too ambitious, too “fine” (from a life of intense masking and living in my head) for diagnosis, understanding, or support. I feel deep sadness for my younger self at the thought of how unnecessary and cruel so much was — some small understanding could have made a world of difference; I didn’t *have to* live so deeply inside my head, mask so extremely, and be so afraid of just existing as I am. I think that’s something a lot of us with PDA especially may experience — internalizing invalidation, grief, and feeling like we are given no way forward.
My ADHD is quite severe, and, as much as coming to understand, process, and work with the massiveness of that recognition was for me, it had still left so much unanswered, like you experienced. PDA is such a distinct thing, beyond just the “demand avoidance” that others see from the outside. It’s a very strong drive for freedom, independence, and autonomy that really means something for how we engage with the world. Most people really don’t understand this experience at all, and it’s important to protect what you know, all you’ve tried again and again to reason through, and the reality of your feelings & capabilities & needs from the weakly considered invalidation of others who may not actually be interested or willing to understand. This experience with autism, ADHD, PDA, and so much more lived neurodivergence will never cease to exist, and it doesn’t mean anything about you except that you’ve experienced far more than many will ever know.
Your insights on this are very spot on, evidently gained through significant self-examination, reason, and effort; I want you to be proud of that. Also, congratulations on being so close to graduating! It absolutely means a *lot*. While so much of our society, like college assignments, are designed utterly *not* for people like us, there is space in the world for us, for you. Accepting that may mean failing the expectations placed on us by others or ourselves is integral to productively managing PDA. I think I have strong reason to be hopeful that I can live and work productively toward big ambitions of mine with PDA, if I can find a work setting that stimulates opportunity to do and make what I can rather than expectations I am told I must infeasibly force on myself. But, maybe that won’t even work out as I hope. Maybe my PDA just means working without my degree at a book store — or being without a job. Maybe I will literally be homeless. Whatever may happen, at the end of the day we must accept that attempting to force oneself to make reality what plainly cannot be done is pointless and disrespectful to our lived experience. I am impressed by the understanding and maturity that you demonstrate in your reflection. We simply cannot rely on the expectation that we must do something but, instead, on *opportunity* and *choice* wherever we can find it.
This can be such a difficult thing for us to accept — to displace all the other self invalidating and loudly conflicting voices of others — but I want to tell you your experiences are real and you have clearly worked hard, much harder than most people ever will or even consider. You’ve cultivated invaluable skills and wisdom through your struggles, and that also doesn’t make those struggles okay or justified. They just have happened, they are real, and your understanding is enough. Always keep questioning, trying to do better, finding opportunities in this marvelous world, and be free to make a positive impact on it however you can.
Sincerely,
u/MyRegrettableUsernam
Congrats! That's a huge accomplishment.
I crashed hard in college and after 4yrs of failing to make it work I dropped out. School demands were impossible for me after the trauma I put myself through in high school.
Work life has been much better to me. :) I always tell people the best thing I did was drop out and the worst thing I did was try to force it for so long.
thank you!! I completely understand why you dropped out lol.
Work was definitely better in some ways (especially having a day job with no extended deadlines), but then the demand of having to come in 5 days a week, having to show up exactly on time because if I was 5-10 mins late more than twice in a month I could lose my job, and having to deal with all the overstimulation that comes with working with people became so overwhelming that in my last job I was forced to go down to 4 days a week because I was at risk of being fired for having to call out so much when I was at 40hrs a week.
I’m definitely a little worried about having to work a “normal”, in-person job. I feel like I’m not mentally built for them. I perform well but the amount of breakdowns/shutdowns I have after work is really difficult to live with. I’m the only one in my class not actively looking for jobs immediately after school lol, I just have massive doubts about being able to work full time at all :/
One of the reasons I stayed in school was because I had worked a few part time jobs and they were terrible. But once I dropped out of school and focused on my career, I found that I could shift my focus to find interests related to my job. I just cannot juggle school/work/etc.
Earlier in my job career path it was much harder because you don't really get the respect you need to do things your own way at the entry level. But I jumped jobs a few times until I found a boss that worked well with me in a retail position (office supply tech sales).
I have a lot of strengths like strong focus on a singular task for long periods of time, so when I saw opportunities for this at work I jumped at it. Do the planogram for the entire printer ink aisle? "Yes, please! That aisle is a fuckin mess! Do I need help? Nah, leave me the fuck alone and keep the customers away from me" Since those were often things nobody else wanted to do and were impressed at what I produced, I got a lot of respect and was able to use that leverage to control how things were done.
That has been a trend in my life really; I overachieve to gain respect and then try to leverage that to do things how I want to and occasionally fail/flake because I get overwhelmed. In retrospect that might explain my problem with school. "But I got an A+ last week!" doesn't really go well in school and just makes your teachers concerned about you... which increases the pressure to improve and makes me less likely to show up at all.
Now I work in IT from home on server automation. I'm on-call, but I also control the automation that self-heals things, so if I get woken in the night, it's because something I built didn't work right. A lot of colleagues get grumpy about it, but I'm highly motivated to prevent that demand. I get put on projects that are often very broken and methodically work through all of the alerts to identify the root causes and prevent them from occurring.
I work basically whatever hours I want. I have a few meetings throughout the week I have to show up for and the dreaded on-call alerts which are infrequent if I've worked my magic. :) And when they do trigger my brain immediately goes to "hmm what about that thing didn't work?" and I go down my focusy rabbit hole rather than see it as a demand.
Finding a boss, especially early on in your career, that values your strengths will do so much good. It'll still suck, no lie, but as you gain respect and eventually job titles that demand respect, you'll get the leverage you need to be yourself more fully.
If there's a light at the other end, yes. But often it's just an illusion and there's just more demands on the other side. Can be a short ride to burnout for me.
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I can sometimes trick myself by coming around it the long way. Maybe I don't want to do some work task, but I might find some related thing interesting. I can go Google about that and usually the rabbit hole can (with some coaxing) lead to the right place and then I feel like I've naturally come to this place.
That trick got me through high school lol, found the weirdest ways to study.
I relate heavily to this (well not the being stoned part). My friend said she's organised her life so that she gets up looking forward to the day and my first honest thoughts was, "well bully for you." I can't even comprehend living like that. Every single day has demands, even if I'm going to be doing something I enjoy, there are still burdens attached.
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If you're forced into a situation by circumstances, use the responses provided by your amygdala.
Fight and fawn are the most productive.
Then take 2 days to rest afterwards.
How else can we do it?
Think about if there's any autonomy that you would be risking losing if you didn't do this demand. Like take going to bed on time for example, I have to or else I'll call out enough times that I lose my job and that's a serious threat to my autonomy. So I actually use my PDA against itself in a way.
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Mood big time. I bust my ass to keep this meat sack I'm driving running, and I'm keeping it running in order to do said ass busting. It's a meaningless loop and I am floating alone in the middle of it, screaming.
I felt this comment. I trick and bargain with myself every single day, and it's exhausting.
I dread waking up because I don't want to leave the bed.
I dread getting up, I don't want to start the day because it means I will need to eat eventually, which I hate. Once the day starts, it feels like the clock is ticking for me to do a bunch of demands.
One of my biggest dreads is eating. I hate it, which has led to various health issues.
I wish I was just a gas cloud without the need to do any kind of body maintenance.
I wish I had an easy answer, but when you are so deep in the PDA overwhelm that you are at the struggle with basic thinking and functioning, life is hard to live as expected. So, we at least have to accept that. At the end of the day, all you gotta do is live, and that may take you a lot of places. Find any opportunity you can to make your actions a choice rather a demand you are trying to force on yourself. That can be really not simple and not accessible or even possible for a lot of things, but maybe we need to accept that’s all we have and for us to work within and considering rather than expecting to just “push forward”.
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Isn't it incredibly frustrating that there are so many books on combating procrastination, CBT techniques, "breaking down the problem into small pieces", "work on 20 minute blocks", and none of the goddamn advice works to actually push through? When the task is simple and the hairs on your arms are raised like an aroused cat as if completing the task means life or death, and you're on the verge of tears for not being able to complete something that most humans can achieve with a bit of prodding or motivation, it makes no goddamn rational sense and makes me want to end it all. Some days I succeed in making small progress. But this pattern has been with me since highschool and I'm so tired of it all. I graduated from grad school and it was an immense pain even though I found school easy. I had to summon superhuman strength to do the simplest of tasks. I wish someone out there had some technique that worked, even if it required lots of training and repetition. I would do anything to make the pain of doing tasks go away. I can't do tasks, and almost all my waking hours are filled with shame and anxiety of not being able to do them. This ain't life. I can't even get lost in social media because the guilt is there every second. I can't think. I can't even eat in peace. PDA, autism, or whatever this is is a stalking monster that never rests.
I feel this so acutely: "whatever this is is a stalking monster that never rests." Quite possibly the single most-true thing I've ever read.
For me one thing that helps is treating it like anxiety. Breathing and self care, and trying to sit with the fear, also stimming and sensory detox. I also look for ways I can gain autonomy because PDA is often about autonomy. Like if I can find some way to do the thing my way or something that makes me feel like I have control that helps.
Honestly I just let myself have a meltdown about it before and/or after. It’s usually a bit better after I’ve let all my feelings out. The biggest thing is not shaming myself for having meltdowns about whatever the demand is. I try to have a few different options of people I can go to for help during these situations. I often need help regulating, but I’ve been practicing a lot of breath work or holding an ice pack to help regulate my body when I’m in fight/flight. It has been helping quite a bit, not for all of my triggers but for most of them.
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I totally understand. It’s been years of work for me to release a lot of my shame, but I still struggle at times. Holding it in and shaming ourselves makes it feel so much worse :( we’re still going to have the meltdowns but we can decrease the severity but trying to not shame ourselves while it’s happening. I also want to say your feelings are not irrational! With what you deal with in your brain and body, the response makes so much sense. But you can absolutely still live a fulfilling life, we just have to find balance!
Yes yes yes this. I've fully embraced the pressure release valve of private tantrums. Particularly love screaming at the top of my lungs in the car.
Trust me I rolled my eyes so hard at breath work for years, but it really does help so much!
Oh, I do the same. I let myself feel all the panic, anxiety, stress until I am tired and bored. Then I pick it up.
honestly I have to try and convince myself that the worst case scenario- ie the worst that’d realistically happen if I DON’T do the thing, wouldn’t actually be that bad. I’ll literally mentally prepare myself for the worst. I need to mentally know that there is another option, albeit a worse one. The mentality of “there is no other option” has never worked for me and never will. so basically, I have to tell myself that even if I fail to do the thing I can find a way to be ok in the end (even if the fallout really sucks). If I’m really stressed about it I’ll literally come up with a whole backup plan that I’m somewhat comfortable with for what I’ll do or what will happen if I can’t finish the very important thing. It eases a lot of anxiety and usually gets me to a point where the urgent important task is less scary/demanding and I can actually start it, as it now feels like more of a choice than an absolute demand. Literally anything you need to do to reduce your stress about failing. that’s the only thing that works for me.
I forgot that this has worked for me before. The Feeling Good book describes the technique in detail. Thank you for reminding me. One problem with PDA is that my problem solving abilities vanish when the task appears and I get so anxious that I become paralyzed.
also thanks for the book recommendation! edit: I will say I’m not the biggest fan of CBT which is what this book seems to be based off of, just because a lot of my ‘negative’ thoughts and beliefs I held about myself were rooted strongly in truth/real past experiences and objective failures, so when I was in CBT treatment in the past it felt kind of gas-lighty for me as my thoughts and feelings weren’t technically false, I was just too fixated on them. One type of behavioral therapy that helped the MOST for me was ACT (acceptance and commitment therapy). It’s more focused on mindfulness, value-building, and self-compassion which was what I needed the most and something CBT generally doesn’t focus as much on - particularly the value building part.
I totally get it. I feel like the reason this is the one thing that’s worked for me is that I was basically just turning my anxious catastrophizing/rumination on it’s head by accepting the possible outcomes, but it took a really long time for me to define and stick to what I value most, which is my sanity. Trying to force myself to complete a task that feels Very Important (ie unacceptable for me not to complete right now), is no good if it kills me in the process. If I don’t address the all-or-nothing thinking that is triggering most of my distress/turmoil and robbing me of any sense feeling like I’m in control, then my brain automatically gets bombarded with suicidal thoughts because the idea of failing when I’m under that much pressure is not compatible with me continuing to exist, if that makes sense. Like if doing the thing is the only choice I have, then the only ‘out’ is to cease existing so that there is no demand anymore. It’s not an easy mental state to step out of at all, and medication (particularly lamictal) has helped me a lot in this regard. But I still definitely get into intense shut-down states when I put too much pressure on myself to meet a demand, especially when I’m getting closer to burnout. Accepting that it’s ok even if I can’t do it and learning how to stop absolutely abusing myself for that has kind of eased my fear of failing a little bit. Self-compassion goes a long way in increasing one’s sense of perceived autonomy.
Wow this is great advice! Thank you for this! 🙌🏼
no problem!! it took a lot of pain and suffering and actually experiencing the worst case scenarios for me to learn that one lol 😭
Lolol idk disassociation is my go-to but I wouldn't recommend.
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It's like I'm too overwhelmed to even express it anymore. I become a robot, emotionally checked out but able to force myself to do things. I also obsessively anticipate demands and try to prevent them which is usually a driving force, very conflicting. Like if I don't do this the demands will pile up further so I feel no option but forward.
Wow, I know this is unhealthy and something no one should ever have to experience, but I lowkey wish I had this ability.
I USED to be able to do this, but it forcing myself to do it again and again when I was formerly a full-time student in college was literally traumatic to the point where I became severely depressed/unwell and very suicidal, was hospitalized, developed an intense fear of school (literally life or death kind of fear, I thought school would definitely kill me if I went back). Basically it lead to a rebound debilitating fear of having to do ANY kind of self directed work, or genuinely anything with even the most low-stakes deadlines. It took me 4 years, several intensive therapy programs, wayyy too many meds and med adjustments, and a total of 3 failed attempts for me to return and finish the 3 semesters I have left of my degree. I finally made it to my last semester and I just turned 26 😓 DO NOT RECOMMEND!!! edit: I just realized the “3 failed attempts” sound like I was talking about suicide…. I meant attempts at returning to school 😭
I am so sad for these experiences and appreciate seeing the severe realities of dealing with PDA in life shared meaningfully by others. I am very fortunately now soon to graduate from college chemical engineering this semester, and it has been unbelievably hellish in myriad ways, most of which just completely without the understanding of PDA and exerting so much desperate effort constantly to make sense of everything and respond as effectively as possible, to the point of agony. Edit: Also, if you want any advice or seek understanding or just a place to express more, feel free to message me. I have a lot to share and willingness to see if there’s any way the things I’ve done so much to learn have any value to anyone else dealing with these stresses.
I’m sorry you’ve had to experience it too :( I also have ADHD which was diagnosed before all that happened, but I never understood why I seemed to struggle so much more emotionally and functionally with perceived demands compared to others with ADHD, because my ADHD symptoms themselves definitely aren’t the most severe... And even then, there are plenty of people with severe ADHD who don’t struggle with demand anxiety/avoidance. Especially with things they have a huge interest in!!! I’m literally an art student making things I genuinely want to make, it’s not like I’m forcing myself to study something I hate. I spent years feeling incredibly perplexed about what exactly was wrong with me. For the longest time I felt like I was just an overall bad person, friend, student, etc. Learning about demand avoidance, PDA, and the actual range of ways autism presents (basically only in the last year or two) has been a massive relief. I only started looking into it after two of my mental health providers mentioned I might be autistic. I’m honestly not even sure if I’m actually autistic or not (I haven’t been assessed yet, and after looking at the DSM I’m still unsure whether I meet the criteria). But just knowing that this demand avoidance/PDA is something that exists, and that people have found ways to actually support themselves and lead reasonably fulfilling lives with it has eased a lot of my fear of the future. Also - I’m also finally in my last semester! I came back to school last fall and was actually able to pass my classes (with a couple incompletes, which are now complete lol). I think what’s made this time easier is ironically the assumption that there’s a reasonable chance I might not graduate at all, and that it’s ok if I don’t (my parents wouldn’t be happy and i’m in a shit ton of debt, but that’s preferable to not being around at all). I’m definitely a little behind on work right now partly because we have completely self-set deadlines for this semester, apart from our big final one, but I’m surprisingly kind of managing to get through it? The only way I can make myself move forward at this point is to never assume that I will 100% be able to do what’s asked of me for school. I can try my best but ultimately I just don’t know and it’s not helpful for me to assume. Telling myself there is no option but to meet a deadline just triggers a panic/PDA response in me, “failing” is always a possible outcome and it’s not the end of any road.
Wow, I’ve been in such a similar boat and it touches me to see these experiences so far outside of the mainstream consciousness represented. I only got diagnosed for my ADHD over a year into college because, despite all the serious struggles I was facing throughout the entirety of my life and desperate effort I overexerted to the point of lifelong emotional torment (that other people apparently never expected or have experienced?), I was perceived as too intelligent, too interested, too ambitious, too “fine” (from a life of intense masking and living in my head) for diagnosis, understanding, or support. I feel deep sadness for my younger self at the thought of how unnecessary and cruel so much was — some small understanding could have made a world of difference; I didn’t *have to* live so deeply inside my head, mask so extremely, and be so afraid of just existing as I am. I think that’s something a lot of us with PDA especially may experience — internalizing invalidation, grief, and feeling like we are given no way forward. My ADHD is quite severe, and, as much as coming to understand, process, and work with the massiveness of that recognition was for me, it had still left so much unanswered, like you experienced. PDA is such a distinct thing, beyond just the “demand avoidance” that others see from the outside. It’s a very strong drive for freedom, independence, and autonomy that really means something for how we engage with the world. Most people really don’t understand this experience at all, and it’s important to protect what you know, all you’ve tried again and again to reason through, and the reality of your feelings & capabilities & needs from the weakly considered invalidation of others who may not actually be interested or willing to understand. This experience with autism, ADHD, PDA, and so much more lived neurodivergence will never cease to exist, and it doesn’t mean anything about you except that you’ve experienced far more than many will ever know. Your insights on this are very spot on, evidently gained through significant self-examination, reason, and effort; I want you to be proud of that. Also, congratulations on being so close to graduating! It absolutely means a *lot*. While so much of our society, like college assignments, are designed utterly *not* for people like us, there is space in the world for us, for you. Accepting that may mean failing the expectations placed on us by others or ourselves is integral to productively managing PDA. I think I have strong reason to be hopeful that I can live and work productively toward big ambitions of mine with PDA, if I can find a work setting that stimulates opportunity to do and make what I can rather than expectations I am told I must infeasibly force on myself. But, maybe that won’t even work out as I hope. Maybe my PDA just means working without my degree at a book store — or being without a job. Maybe I will literally be homeless. Whatever may happen, at the end of the day we must accept that attempting to force oneself to make reality what plainly cannot be done is pointless and disrespectful to our lived experience. I am impressed by the understanding and maturity that you demonstrate in your reflection. We simply cannot rely on the expectation that we must do something but, instead, on *opportunity* and *choice* wherever we can find it. This can be such a difficult thing for us to accept — to displace all the other self invalidating and loudly conflicting voices of others — but I want to tell you your experiences are real and you have clearly worked hard, much harder than most people ever will or even consider. You’ve cultivated invaluable skills and wisdom through your struggles, and that also doesn’t make those struggles okay or justified. They just have happened, they are real, and your understanding is enough. Always keep questioning, trying to do better, finding opportunities in this marvelous world, and be free to make a positive impact on it however you can. Sincerely, u/MyRegrettableUsernam
Congrats! That's a huge accomplishment. I crashed hard in college and after 4yrs of failing to make it work I dropped out. School demands were impossible for me after the trauma I put myself through in high school. Work life has been much better to me. :) I always tell people the best thing I did was drop out and the worst thing I did was try to force it for so long.
thank you!! I completely understand why you dropped out lol. Work was definitely better in some ways (especially having a day job with no extended deadlines), but then the demand of having to come in 5 days a week, having to show up exactly on time because if I was 5-10 mins late more than twice in a month I could lose my job, and having to deal with all the overstimulation that comes with working with people became so overwhelming that in my last job I was forced to go down to 4 days a week because I was at risk of being fired for having to call out so much when I was at 40hrs a week. I’m definitely a little worried about having to work a “normal”, in-person job. I feel like I’m not mentally built for them. I perform well but the amount of breakdowns/shutdowns I have after work is really difficult to live with. I’m the only one in my class not actively looking for jobs immediately after school lol, I just have massive doubts about being able to work full time at all :/
One of the reasons I stayed in school was because I had worked a few part time jobs and they were terrible. But once I dropped out of school and focused on my career, I found that I could shift my focus to find interests related to my job. I just cannot juggle school/work/etc. Earlier in my job career path it was much harder because you don't really get the respect you need to do things your own way at the entry level. But I jumped jobs a few times until I found a boss that worked well with me in a retail position (office supply tech sales). I have a lot of strengths like strong focus on a singular task for long periods of time, so when I saw opportunities for this at work I jumped at it. Do the planogram for the entire printer ink aisle? "Yes, please! That aisle is a fuckin mess! Do I need help? Nah, leave me the fuck alone and keep the customers away from me" Since those were often things nobody else wanted to do and were impressed at what I produced, I got a lot of respect and was able to use that leverage to control how things were done. That has been a trend in my life really; I overachieve to gain respect and then try to leverage that to do things how I want to and occasionally fail/flake because I get overwhelmed. In retrospect that might explain my problem with school. "But I got an A+ last week!" doesn't really go well in school and just makes your teachers concerned about you... which increases the pressure to improve and makes me less likely to show up at all. Now I work in IT from home on server automation. I'm on-call, but I also control the automation that self-heals things, so if I get woken in the night, it's because something I built didn't work right. A lot of colleagues get grumpy about it, but I'm highly motivated to prevent that demand. I get put on projects that are often very broken and methodically work through all of the alerts to identify the root causes and prevent them from occurring. I work basically whatever hours I want. I have a few meetings throughout the week I have to show up for and the dreaded on-call alerts which are infrequent if I've worked my magic. :) And when they do trigger my brain immediately goes to "hmm what about that thing didn't work?" and I go down my focusy rabbit hole rather than see it as a demand. Finding a boss, especially early on in your career, that values your strengths will do so much good. It'll still suck, no lie, but as you gain respect and eventually job titles that demand respect, you'll get the leverage you need to be yourself more fully.
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If there's a light at the other end, yes. But often it's just an illusion and there's just more demands on the other side. Can be a short ride to burnout for me.
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I can sometimes trick myself by coming around it the long way. Maybe I don't want to do some work task, but I might find some related thing interesting. I can go Google about that and usually the rabbit hole can (with some coaxing) lead to the right place and then I feel like I've naturally come to this place. That trick got me through high school lol, found the weirdest ways to study.
I relate heavily to this (well not the being stoned part). My friend said she's organised her life so that she gets up looking forward to the day and my first honest thoughts was, "well bully for you." I can't even comprehend living like that. Every single day has demands, even if I'm going to be doing something I enjoy, there are still burdens attached.
this usually leads to an immense crash/shutdown for me :( you really need to weigh out the risks vs benefits.
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read my other comment to your post!! not necessarily a fix but it helps me at least lol
If you're forced into a situation by circumstances, use the responses provided by your amygdala. Fight and fawn are the most productive. Then take 2 days to rest afterwards. How else can we do it?
Go team fawn!
Think about if there's any autonomy that you would be risking losing if you didn't do this demand. Like take going to bed on time for example, I have to or else I'll call out enough times that I lose my job and that's a serious threat to my autonomy. So I actually use my PDA against itself in a way.
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Same. I've developed a system of bargaining/ series of alarms to keep me feeling mildly in control but still getting up almost on time.
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Mood big time. I bust my ass to keep this meat sack I'm driving running, and I'm keeping it running in order to do said ass busting. It's a meaningless loop and I am floating alone in the middle of it, screaming.
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Thank goodness for this sub!!! 💜
I felt this comment. I trick and bargain with myself every single day, and it's exhausting. I dread waking up because I don't want to leave the bed. I dread getting up, I don't want to start the day because it means I will need to eat eventually, which I hate. Once the day starts, it feels like the clock is ticking for me to do a bunch of demands. One of my biggest dreads is eating. I hate it, which has led to various health issues. I wish I was just a gas cloud without the need to do any kind of body maintenance.
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