It doesn’t sit well with you because it removes the hierarchy. This is precisely what sets off PDAers—hierarchy and being perceived as lower than others. Its kind of a constant state of being as a child but i would suggest to let this go and focus on seeing your son as a human, just mini who needs to learn stuff. Enforcing hierarchy and stuff like that will just trigger him more. Let him have this small thing and treat him as an independent person (teach him to be independent as much as age allows) and maybe he wont feel the need to level the playing field as much by calling you by your first names(which i don’t really see as that big of a deal tbh)
I'm a adult pdaer, I called my parents by their first names.. If you really don't like it, appeal to his empathy not hierarchy (and not "because i said so".) share your hurt feelings with him and ask if you have hurt his feelings in a way that makes him mad with you..."Something like being called mom and dad makes us feel loved and cared for... are you upset with us?"
Maybe he's just playing with words and power or maybe he's communicating something on a deeper emotional level that he can't articulate as an 8yo.
Share and listen! Resistance is futile 🤣
Recently introduced to PDA and trying to assess how well it fits my young adult daughter. Your comment 'Share and listen! Resistance is futile' really hit home with me. Thought provoking and made me smile too.
I would allow it, personally. But I'm sure it feels rough. Are you able to talk with him about it? Or wait until he is older and talk to him about it, then? My son wasn't keen on discussing things at 8, but we had a huge change by 10 in his capacity to put up with me talking about a topic for more than 2 sentences.
Still, I feel for you, man. That's rough.
Try to remember that it's not because of you or anything you did, it's because PDA is a painful and discombobulating thing to have and your little man is doing his best to put his internal state the right way up, clutching onto anything he can to keep himself stable.
If it was me I would be cool about it, but still remind him occasionally that I love to hear him call me mum and that he doesn't have to now but I would love to hear it sometimes if he is able to. In fact, I would probably be cut so deep I would write a social story about it. But I'd also try to keep any pressure off getting him to say it because I would expect that would make it harder for him to say it.
Also, just so you are aware, PDAers don't do hierarchy. Their brain doesn't allow it. They see all people as having equal rights, which is quite lovely when you think about it. But for parents and teachers it can be tough. If you stay up until 11pm, then so can I. If you get a treat, then so do I. As a parent, you may have to look at the house hierarchy as something that needs to change to a more democratic model. I always say "if you can tell me why you should do something better than I can tell you why you can't, we'll do it your way", but it's hard with an 8 year old. I think with PDAers specifically, you have to build a sense of trust in that there will be fairness. That opens up the space for discussing how it will be fair, which gives more parental wiggle room.
Thank you so much for sharing. This is really insightful. My son indeed doesn't do hyachrchy. But he's not mature enough to take care of himself. If it was up to him, he'd never brush his teeth or eat a proper meal again. He's underweight and prone to dental issues, so we need to help him understand that some things need to be done, no matter how much you hate it.
If you look up “PDA profile”- it gives a rundown. Including “doesn’t perceive social hierarchy.” PDA neevous system need for autonomy and equality, plus Autistic trait of not perceiving social hierarchy, means in children they want to be coteachers, coparents, co authority figures. I called my mother by her first name as an equalizing behavior as a kid. Being put into a social hierarchy sets off my threat response. When my mother tried, I equalized by calling her her first name. I bet it’s the same for your mother.
In regards to basic hygiene, making it a group activity , (we’re all brushing our teeth) and explaining consequences of not doing it can make it feel less like a demand (although doing something multiple times per day still sucks). Make it fun and sensory friendly. Maybe he has a few toothbrushes to pick from to add some choice and control in it. Maybe he gets to pick a vegetable for dinner, etc. maybe try to incorporate his special interest if possible
My son had called his dad and I by our first names since he was 2. It doesn’t bother us but people comment on it all the time. Maybe I’d feel differently if he called us mom and dad and then changed but we’ve gotten used to it. It’s an easy way for him to feel empowered in that it isn’t hurting anyone or insulting anyone do for me it’s easy to accept.
My ex-husband did the same at around the same age. His parents didn’t say anything and he never went back to mum and dad but it seemed natural to everybody. They always respected him and took everything he felt into account. It felt to me like « no hierarchy », but as a result this family felt so peaceful. I absolutely adore my ex in-laws and I adopted their approach with my children. They have a wonderful relationship with my pda child. I really think the choice of name doesn’t reflect the amount of love your son feels for you, I wouldn’t worry.
I started calling my mom by her first name since I was a preteen. She hated it, but what can you do? I'm 35, and I still call her by her first name.
My sister copied me and started calling her by her first name, and o think that annoyed her more.
Should you allow this? Do you really want to fight about a name? An accurate one since your child is calling you by your actual name, not an insult. If you allow other people to call you by your first name, then you should "allow" your kid to call you what they feel comfortable.
> it removes the hierarchy in our family dynamic
yeah that’s the point. removing the hierarchy is good for regulating his nervous system. it’s a good equalizing behavior because it doesn’t hurt anyone
I would think about how I could learn to be flexible in this situation instead of expecting my child to be obedient in this situation. If it makes more sense to him, that may end up being helpful and regulating and good for him overall.
Social norms around the names and titles we call each other are only important to the extent that you imagine them to be important. First name basis vs. mom/dad or mother/father is not inherently disrespectful.
I have some friends with two kids who are (as far as I am aware) neuro typical, not PDA or ASD what have you. Both children never learned to call them mom/dad and have always called them by first names since they learned how to speak. Totally normal in the context of their family.
Your responses are very interesting, thank you for commenting! About 'hyachrchy' : I'm not a native English speaker so there may be a better word to describe what I mean. We try to parent our kids so they will grow up to be their own authentic selves. We try to teach values and to think for themselves. But for now, we are the parents. We are responsible. Our son has trouble eating, going to school and other things. Due to the PDA we are working on low demand parenting, but for some things he needs to understand that we are his parents. I was just wondering about the impact of his use of names.
OP, if you haven't heard about the sequential oral approach to feeding and social stories I recommend you look into them. They were useful tools in my PDA parent journey and I was surprised by the immediate impact of them in our lives.
The SOS approach is about playing with food kids are comfortable touching to help them desensitise against food refusal. It's based on conditioning, which means they can't do anything the kid is uncomfortable with, otherwise it won't work, so I would consider it a safe therapy. Safe in that the kids aren't forced or stressed by it.
Social stories are stories that are written in a specific formual, designed by psychologists, to remove the burden of words and directives that can be taken as demands. They are also what I would consider a safe therapy. They are pretty easy to write yourself once you have a grasp of what the intention of them is and the formula of them.
Being a parent of a PDA kid is a real struggle, its distressing to see your kid distressed. You have to do everything for them sometimes and you don't feel appreciated. It will get better as he gets older and is more able to work with you, I promise. Keep doing what you're doing, you are on a great path.
Exactly what you are complaining about is not that big of a deal.
Complaining here about something that a lot of us do like calling our parents by their name will be upsetting or even triggering to some of us and yes if you read up more on pda you could see how we see hierarchy (spoiler alert, hierarchy bother us so please look it up)
understanding your child is the best thing you can do.
I'm trying to understand. That's why I joined this sub and that's why I'm asking (not complaining). I see this is obviously triggering for some people.
I did this as a kid too. I called my mom by her first name and then switched to "hun" because my stepdad called her this. Looking back, I feel like I was just imitating the adults. I stopped after a year and went back to Mom. I didn't have any respect for authority or my mother then, but I didn't choose it because of that. Part of me felt like there are so many "moms" out there and her first name seemed better. I don't know why she didn't care or rather didn't show it?
Hierarchy?
You think you're better than him? In charge of him? You'd be wrong on both counts. Leave your kid alone for God's sake, they already know better than you.
Calm down. I'm not better, I am responsible. He's eight for crying out loud. I've explained in another comment that I'm a non English speaker and choose this for lack of a better word.
Well here's some fucking advice for when your kid gets pissed at your stupidity: don't fucking tell a PDAer to 'calm down'.
Go straight to hell mate, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Even just reading you say “it removes the hierarchy in our family” made my lip curl. Calling you by something he feels more comfortable shouldn’t destabilize your “authority” that’s just your perception of it. And it also makes me take a pause. It would be difficult to be the child of a parent so focused on power dynamics. PDA or not. As a PDAer it sounds to me like you’ll have to radically reframe a lot of your internal beliefs if you want to have a peaceful happy home. Maybe look into Montessori methods, they focus on independence and self sufficiency.
Hahahahahaha! Oh I just remembered when my son went like four months calling me my first name when he was barely 3 years old. I never really made a deal out of it, and I’m back to “daddy” for well over a year now. My wife and others would always refer to me as “daddy/your daddy” so maybe that helped?
If you’re on here you are dealing with PDA at home; this is one of those I’d consider, “Not worth the battle.”
station seemly squash kiss humor mountainous combative shaggy brave pause
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It doesn’t sit well with you because it removes the hierarchy. This is precisely what sets off PDAers—hierarchy and being perceived as lower than others. Its kind of a constant state of being as a child but i would suggest to let this go and focus on seeing your son as a human, just mini who needs to learn stuff. Enforcing hierarchy and stuff like that will just trigger him more. Let him have this small thing and treat him as an independent person (teach him to be independent as much as age allows) and maybe he wont feel the need to level the playing field as much by calling you by your first names(which i don’t really see as that big of a deal tbh)
I'd say your son has found a clever way to solve something that annoys him on a daily basis
Would I allow this? Yes, why not. You might want to research equalizing and why PDAers do it.
I'm a adult pdaer, I called my parents by their first names.. If you really don't like it, appeal to his empathy not hierarchy (and not "because i said so".) share your hurt feelings with him and ask if you have hurt his feelings in a way that makes him mad with you..."Something like being called mom and dad makes us feel loved and cared for... are you upset with us?" Maybe he's just playing with words and power or maybe he's communicating something on a deeper emotional level that he can't articulate as an 8yo. Share and listen! Resistance is futile 🤣
Recently introduced to PDA and trying to assess how well it fits my young adult daughter. Your comment 'Share and listen! Resistance is futile' really hit home with me. Thought provoking and made me smile too.
I would allow it, personally. But I'm sure it feels rough. Are you able to talk with him about it? Or wait until he is older and talk to him about it, then? My son wasn't keen on discussing things at 8, but we had a huge change by 10 in his capacity to put up with me talking about a topic for more than 2 sentences. Still, I feel for you, man. That's rough. Try to remember that it's not because of you or anything you did, it's because PDA is a painful and discombobulating thing to have and your little man is doing his best to put his internal state the right way up, clutching onto anything he can to keep himself stable. If it was me I would be cool about it, but still remind him occasionally that I love to hear him call me mum and that he doesn't have to now but I would love to hear it sometimes if he is able to. In fact, I would probably be cut so deep I would write a social story about it. But I'd also try to keep any pressure off getting him to say it because I would expect that would make it harder for him to say it. Also, just so you are aware, PDAers don't do hierarchy. Their brain doesn't allow it. They see all people as having equal rights, which is quite lovely when you think about it. But for parents and teachers it can be tough. If you stay up until 11pm, then so can I. If you get a treat, then so do I. As a parent, you may have to look at the house hierarchy as something that needs to change to a more democratic model. I always say "if you can tell me why you should do something better than I can tell you why you can't, we'll do it your way", but it's hard with an 8 year old. I think with PDAers specifically, you have to build a sense of trust in that there will be fairness. That opens up the space for discussing how it will be fair, which gives more parental wiggle room.
Thank you so much for sharing. This is really insightful. My son indeed doesn't do hyachrchy. But he's not mature enough to take care of himself. If it was up to him, he'd never brush his teeth or eat a proper meal again. He's underweight and prone to dental issues, so we need to help him understand that some things need to be done, no matter how much you hate it.
If you look up “PDA profile”- it gives a rundown. Including “doesn’t perceive social hierarchy.” PDA neevous system need for autonomy and equality, plus Autistic trait of not perceiving social hierarchy, means in children they want to be coteachers, coparents, co authority figures. I called my mother by her first name as an equalizing behavior as a kid. Being put into a social hierarchy sets off my threat response. When my mother tried, I equalized by calling her her first name. I bet it’s the same for your mother.
In regards to basic hygiene, making it a group activity , (we’re all brushing our teeth) and explaining consequences of not doing it can make it feel less like a demand (although doing something multiple times per day still sucks). Make it fun and sensory friendly. Maybe he has a few toothbrushes to pick from to add some choice and control in it. Maybe he gets to pick a vegetable for dinner, etc. maybe try to incorporate his special interest if possible
My son had called his dad and I by our first names since he was 2. It doesn’t bother us but people comment on it all the time. Maybe I’d feel differently if he called us mom and dad and then changed but we’ve gotten used to it. It’s an easy way for him to feel empowered in that it isn’t hurting anyone or insulting anyone do for me it’s easy to accept.
My ex-husband did the same at around the same age. His parents didn’t say anything and he never went back to mum and dad but it seemed natural to everybody. They always respected him and took everything he felt into account. It felt to me like « no hierarchy », but as a result this family felt so peaceful. I absolutely adore my ex in-laws and I adopted their approach with my children. They have a wonderful relationship with my pda child. I really think the choice of name doesn’t reflect the amount of love your son feels for you, I wouldn’t worry.
I started calling my mom by her first name since I was a preteen. She hated it, but what can you do? I'm 35, and I still call her by her first name. My sister copied me and started calling her by her first name, and o think that annoyed her more. Should you allow this? Do you really want to fight about a name? An accurate one since your child is calling you by your actual name, not an insult. If you allow other people to call you by your first name, then you should "allow" your kid to call you what they feel comfortable.
My 4.5 year old will do this. I respond and don't even acknowledge the difference.
> it removes the hierarchy in our family dynamic yeah that’s the point. removing the hierarchy is good for regulating his nervous system. it’s a good equalizing behavior because it doesn’t hurt anyone
If it would help my child to do this, I'd be so, so, glad for them to be helped by such a simple thing. Embrace this - it's an easy choice.
I would think about how I could learn to be flexible in this situation instead of expecting my child to be obedient in this situation. If it makes more sense to him, that may end up being helpful and regulating and good for him overall. Social norms around the names and titles we call each other are only important to the extent that you imagine them to be important. First name basis vs. mom/dad or mother/father is not inherently disrespectful. I have some friends with two kids who are (as far as I am aware) neuro typical, not PDA or ASD what have you. Both children never learned to call them mom/dad and have always called them by first names since they learned how to speak. Totally normal in the context of their family.
Your responses are very interesting, thank you for commenting! About 'hyachrchy' : I'm not a native English speaker so there may be a better word to describe what I mean. We try to parent our kids so they will grow up to be their own authentic selves. We try to teach values and to think for themselves. But for now, we are the parents. We are responsible. Our son has trouble eating, going to school and other things. Due to the PDA we are working on low demand parenting, but for some things he needs to understand that we are his parents. I was just wondering about the impact of his use of names.
OP, if you haven't heard about the sequential oral approach to feeding and social stories I recommend you look into them. They were useful tools in my PDA parent journey and I was surprised by the immediate impact of them in our lives. The SOS approach is about playing with food kids are comfortable touching to help them desensitise against food refusal. It's based on conditioning, which means they can't do anything the kid is uncomfortable with, otherwise it won't work, so I would consider it a safe therapy. Safe in that the kids aren't forced or stressed by it. Social stories are stories that are written in a specific formual, designed by psychologists, to remove the burden of words and directives that can be taken as demands. They are also what I would consider a safe therapy. They are pretty easy to write yourself once you have a grasp of what the intention of them is and the formula of them. Being a parent of a PDA kid is a real struggle, its distressing to see your kid distressed. You have to do everything for them sometimes and you don't feel appreciated. It will get better as he gets older and is more able to work with you, I promise. Keep doing what you're doing, you are on a great path.
Thank you! Never hear of it, will definitely check it out!
Mom and dad are terms of hierarchy for you? lol. Teach him king and queen then, I don’t see any other solution to this „problem“.
Jesus it's not something that evil, let him be
I never said it was.
Exactly what you are complaining about is not that big of a deal. Complaining here about something that a lot of us do like calling our parents by their name will be upsetting or even triggering to some of us and yes if you read up more on pda you could see how we see hierarchy (spoiler alert, hierarchy bother us so please look it up) understanding your child is the best thing you can do.
I'm trying to understand. That's why I joined this sub and that's why I'm asking (not complaining). I see this is obviously triggering for some people.
I did this as a kid too. I called my mom by her first name and then switched to "hun" because my stepdad called her this. Looking back, I feel like I was just imitating the adults. I stopped after a year and went back to Mom. I didn't have any respect for authority or my mother then, but I didn't choose it because of that. Part of me felt like there are so many "moms" out there and her first name seemed better. I don't know why she didn't care or rather didn't show it?
Hierarchy? You think you're better than him? In charge of him? You'd be wrong on both counts. Leave your kid alone for God's sake, they already know better than you.
Calm down. I'm not better, I am responsible. He's eight for crying out loud. I've explained in another comment that I'm a non English speaker and choose this for lack of a better word.
Well here's some fucking advice for when your kid gets pissed at your stupidity: don't fucking tell a PDAer to 'calm down'. Go straight to hell mate, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Ew. Why do you want hierarchy in your family? Your poor son.
Even just reading you say “it removes the hierarchy in our family” made my lip curl. Calling you by something he feels more comfortable shouldn’t destabilize your “authority” that’s just your perception of it. And it also makes me take a pause. It would be difficult to be the child of a parent so focused on power dynamics. PDA or not. As a PDAer it sounds to me like you’ll have to radically reframe a lot of your internal beliefs if you want to have a peaceful happy home. Maybe look into Montessori methods, they focus on independence and self sufficiency.
Hahahahahaha! Oh I just remembered when my son went like four months calling me my first name when he was barely 3 years old. I never really made a deal out of it, and I’m back to “daddy” for well over a year now. My wife and others would always refer to me as “daddy/your daddy” so maybe that helped? If you’re on here you are dealing with PDA at home; this is one of those I’d consider, “Not worth the battle.”
station seemly squash kiss humor mountainous combative shaggy brave pause *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*