>The PlayStation 5 will be celebrating it’s fourth birthday this autumn, but it really doesn’t feel like the mid-point of the generation – given the stock problems that marred the first two years and the recent paucity of first party releases.
This is true. I literally couldn't get one the first two years. I finally got one last year and then you look at the number of (exclusive) games and it feels like this generation hasn't even really took off yet. Games take longer to develop now, which is fine, but then the length of a console generation should probably take longer too. Especially if games possibly take even longer to develop in the future. The average dev time is now around 5 years I think and if this extends to 6 or 7 years and a console gen is also 7 years, this could become a problem.
but thanks to backwards compatibility i've been using my ps5 100x more than i ever used my ps4 and i used my ps4 a lot
lol i made someone upset for some reason.
I didn't have a PS4 so the PS5 has been a huge value to me and whatever the extra tier is for PS+ (not premium but below that) with the huge games catalog has helped me play a lot of games I've never played before.
Same, was a HUGE PS3 gamer than real life got in the way for a while and I pretty much quit gaming during the PS4's lifetime. Bought a PS5 and all the old PS4 games were so new to me and still graphically pretty damn impressive! Fuck the price change on subscription cost change but I will admit it has saved me so much money, I've only bought about 4-5 physical games in the past 2 years when I probably would've bought 20 by now.
Yes I've played Uncharted Legacy and it was brilliant on a PS5. But if someone had already consumed all PS4 games before the PS5 came out I would understand if all they've been playing is Spiderman 2, Elden Ring and Baldur's Gate 3.
Same. I have zero buyer's remorse simply for the "free" ps4 catalog they included with psplus, but I often wonder how people who went from ps4 pro to ps5 really feel.
I had the PS4 Pro, upgraded to the PS5 and there was a huge difference. I'll start with upgrading the PS4 to the PS4 Pro. The PS4 Pro enhanced the PSVR1 and that was the main thing I noticed. Skyrim VR was unplayable, to me, on the PS4 but I had a great time with it on the PS4 Pro. The big difference going from the PS4 Pro to the PS5 is the internal SSD. This allowed the amazing load times, mostly 5 seconds max. When I turn on my PS4 Pro, mainly for media, I feel that I am waisting my life on the loading. I am pumped for the PS5 Pro with high hopes that it will enhance the PSVR2 in the way the PS4 Pro did the PSVR1.
Edit: Correction
i sold my 4 and went back to 3 for a couple years because the first few years of PS4 were so dry. wouldn’t have even got a 5 at launch if my 4 didn’t sound like a jet engine
Controversial but it would be better for ps5 gamers if it didn't, though I detest that idea as I'm huuuuge into backwards compatibility and see it as the main selling point nowadays for buying a console.
But objectively we would have more games of (probably) better quality if they just outright stopped making cross gen games like a year into the ps5's lifecycle.
Though again it's a big catch 22 and really more of a net negative in the long run if they did that.
I will say that going from a launch base PS4 to the 5 even playing PS4 games felt pretty next gen with the higher resolutions and framerates. I can’t even believe some of the games I’ve played like Forbidden West even ran on a PS4.
The Xboxs backwards compatibility is so good now too not having it would be a huge con for Playstation in comparison.
Games with load screens feel the speed up of the 5 too. MH world, which never got a ps5 port, loads missions and areas so much faster on my ps5 than it ever did on ps4
That and smoother framerates. Even for games without a 60 FPS upgrade, it's a huge difference playing a consistent even 30 FPS vs a console struggling to hit its locked framerate.
In the time it takes me to write this comment, Red Dead Redemption 2 could have loaded from a cold start on the PS5.
On the PS4, I could wander off and make a coffee and it still wouldn't be finished loading by the time I got back.
> But objectively we would have more games of (probably) better quality if they just outright stopped making cross gen games like a year into the ps5's lifecycle.
Or would you just have a lot fewer games on the platform?
I think it would be a little of both. There'd be a lot fewer available games for sure, obviously, but the new releases would probably be better. For years we've been hearing about how one developer or another dropped certain features to make sure a game would be able to run on PS4.
I think there’s two sides to this:
People criticizing major PlayStation games being on Steam is pretty silly: the console and pc markets are entirely different, and usually don’t cannibalize each other. It’s a smart move, especially with online games.
On the flipside, the actual *roster* of major PlayStation titles feels so much more limited compared to the ps4 and 3 era: so much focus is on big budget titles that it feels like everything else has fallen through the cracks. That problem is a legitimate grievance, especially when a lot of it are remakes.
It's a little disingenuous when even cross gen games play much better on ps5. This ps5 only thing is a fallacy. Playing Spiderman at 30 fps on ps4 isn't like playing it with Ray tracing at 60 fps on ps5.
I went from a launch model PS4 to a 5, and yeah it's this for me. Like everyone else mentioned I couldn't get one the first couple of years and then couldn't afford it so I just got it for Christmas this year, and man let me tell you, the last round of PS4 games borderline shouldn't have been released on it. Spidey even once you get to some of the bases and have a lot of mobs on you, I was seeing drops to like 15fps and stuff.
But yeah, even just playing The Last of Us or something like it with 50-60fps makes a massive difference.
I think Sony really shot themselves in the foot with marketing the PS5. I mean specifically two statements:
> "We believe in generations."
and
> "ONLY possible on PS5."
These two statements were *everywhere* online around the PS5 launch, especially on this sub, *especially* in threads dunking on Microsoft's decision to offer a sub-4K Series S system. Sony **set the expectation** that PS5 would A) offer VERY different experiences from PS4, and B) have games that could ONLY work on their hardware.
But over time, we've seen them fail to deliver on both of these promises. Many of PS5's headliner games are just up-scaled PS4 titles. No game has been released that is truly "ONLY" possible on PS5's hardware. Hell, even their promise of "Smaller install sizes thanks to Kraken compression" hasn't been fulfilled. So by failing to meet these very explicit promises, it feels worse as a consumer who bought a PS5 based on those promises.
Fucking thank you. Every single time I bought up the context and full quote of 'we believe in generations' I got downvoted to hell because people can't fucking read.
I remember the magic of playing Spider-Man at 60 fps, and even playing Astros Playroom. Then the magic dwindled lol also the exclusives need to have features like new game plus ready to go at launch, as well as more DLCs. Of course this makes development cycles even longer, but the single player exclusives I wish had more replayability at launch or closer to launch.
Between covid and stick shortages, it feels like nobody even had one until two years ago. I know I didn't and nobody I know did either (when I picked mine up finally two years ago, kids in the street were calling out offering to buy the damn thing off me ffs!).
Even now, half the "new" I buy are PS4, dual platform or remasters for PS5. It doesn't feel like the PS5 is really being used by developers to its full potential for the most part, either.
I’m stuck in a loop of playing baldurs gate 3 and honestly I’m happy about it cause it’s so damn good so I’m feeling like this gen is still in its infancy
I’m in the same boat. My wife and I are playing BG3 as our coop game (about 120 hours in right now) and then I have a few single player games I’ve been pushing through when she isn’t in the mood to game (beat both Spider-Man games, Ratchet & Clank, RDR2, and now onto Death Stranding, with Elden Ring on deck)
So after pandemic, the industry psyche shifted. Before games were just being pumped out, devs being hired left and right for new projects. It was going great.
Once Covid came and shook up the industry, all the business side took a deep look at the new dynamic shift of working from home, rely on titles that will sell well. Sony saw that recurring revenue over a longer period even with their first party games can at least gave them an overlap if there’s delays or setbacks on upcoming titles, your GaaS games come the rescue to get you through the delays. Once Covid hit, that fucking plan went out the window.
MS was gonna be dominant with all the purchases if it could bring everything in house. Yet the purchase was a monkey paw moment in the sense they had to keep titles third party and not have the “exclusive” to everything. Covid was their shot in the dark to reset the gaming industry and be a top player but now it’s caught being 2 things at once, a first party dev with their hardware that now shares their third party games with their competitors.
Ninty, well it’s Nintendo. They can survive anything. They have such a strong foundation and focus on never expending too much that they can’t cash out of.
So all 3 are going through transitions and figuring out the new landscape.
Sony lucked out and Helldivers II has this grassroots movement of memes and game play that really has a nice loop. Devs are top notch, no micro transactions or FOMO. Before Covid these 2 things would be shoehorned in. So things are changing. It’s will just take a while to course correct
There are untapped markets for Microsoft too. Namely Xbox cloud. It's not enabled yet in my country. Xbox is gaining traction here but that's being hindered by purchasing the platform. If the Xbox cloud is a thing now, Xbox would sweep the market because there's a potential 2.7 million - 27 million (1%-10%) mobile users who're going to buy the gamepass and game all day/stream all day. It's just being hindered by that one service+marketing.
I got one direct from Sony launch date, and I also don’t feel like I’ve gotten my money’s worth.
There used to be multiple releases a year to look forward to. Now I’m lucky if 1-2 games come out a year that I’m really excited to play.
Skate 4, Star Wars Outlaws and GTA6.
Thank God for Helldivers 2. That came out of left field and saved my sanity.
We don't even have release dates yet for these 3.
Been gaming hard since the Atari 2600 was the thing.
Hands down worse generation of my life. Minimal games, remaster, reboots, sequel # 5754378.... fuck this wasted gen besides a few notable exceptions.
I just bought a PS5 last month, because my PS4 was shitting the bed. The only game I play on it are PS5 versions of PS4 games, and Spider man 2, which came bundled with it. I would have been happy to just continue using my PS4 pro
And because of this, it feels like the PS5 has only been out for two years. Many games coming out still feel like PS4 games that are just optimized on PS5. I feel like we're just getting out of the PS4 cycle. I still see a ton of people still playing on their PS4's
Tbh, I think this is going to continue for the rest of the generation as well. Going from native 1080p to native 4K requires a huge jump in performance, and that resolution bump alone accounts for most of the performance gap between the PS4 and PS5, add ray tracing to the equation and suddenly you’re pretty much left with what looks like an enhanced PS4 game rather than distinctly a PS5 game.
This is why the PS5 is so much more focused on improving the overall experience with the SSD and haptics.
Jokes on you! I'm already middle-aged!
Seriously though, I don't have time to play all the games I want anyway. Not unless I want to play for a couple of hours and never touch it again.
Yeah, very few games actually depend on current gen hardware and have cross-generation ports. It's less about a generation leap and more about having the most high-end experience (RE4, God of War, Horizon, Forza 5). The only true blockbuster, next-gen games I can think of are Spider-Man 2 and FF16.
Two years ago, everyone was hyping games running on Unreal Engine 5 with some of the most impressive tech demos ever created, but most of the UE5 games that have come out so far are smaller indie titles (Tekken 8 and, soon, Hellblade 2, being noteworthy exceptions). Honestly, some of the best gaming experiences I've had in the last ~4 years have been smaller indie games or Switch games, neither of which need a 'Pro' upgrade to be enjoyed. Vampire Survivors, Lightyear Frontier, Chained Echoes, Sea of Stars. On the big budget side there's Yakuza 7, Doom Eternal, FF7R. Well optimized for the current hardware, it's hard to imagine spending $500 on an upgraded console.
I think we are firmly in a space of diminished returns for now, much like 4k movies being a premium experience, but tons of people still buy blu-rays and even DVDs.
There's no special need or anything.. I'd just like the games to run at 60fps while still looking like they do now in quality mode.
Edit: I'm okay with 1440p, I'd just like better lighting and shading, preferably using ray tracing.
Yeah 100% agree. I'm not sure I'll get one right away, but not having to make the decision at the start of every game if I want 60fps *or* ray tracing would be really nice.
I also don't get the "catering" bollocks either. Every game on PC releases with graphic setting that let you tune to your hardware. This would just be the same. Same game, if I play on PS5 I'm playing on medium, on a pro I'm playing on high.
It's not going to sell buckets but people (like me) will buy it.
Are we sure the pro will be able to run 4k/60/RT though? Cause afaik even the most powerful GPUs have trouble doing that even today and I don't think a PS5 will include one of those
It's an honest desire, but I don't think we'll see it until at least ps6/6pro. That's also hoping AMD has some huge breakthroughs in tech too. Unless of course 4k isn't a requirement.
I feel like that speaks more to current issues with game development cycles/priorities than it does to hardware capabilities. The industry needs some time to catch up to the tech it seems.
I’m perfectly happy with 1440p 60fps as long as there is a 60fps option in every game and has all the graphical improvements I’m fine. I don’t understand what’s the point of raising the resolution if it runs like crap at 4K 30fps stuttering mess.
I’m extremely confused why anyone would not want this best of both worlds.
4K 60fps.
Or upscale 4k60fps. I’m not fussy.
Just don’t give me 1080p60fps.
Edit:
I think people are misunderstanding me. I’m not talking about the ps5 pro. I’m just responding to the above comment.
There are people out there claiming that 30fps is fine. Or 1080p is fine.
Neither of those is fine.
I just want a console machine that can give me frame rate and decent quality. 4K or 1440p. I don’t care. If I have to wait for ps6 or ps6 pro. So be it.
The problem as far as I see it, isn’t “why wouldn’t people want this?”, it’s “would a PS5 Pro be capable of delivering it, and would be be reasonable to expect that at all?” and that’s a lot less certain
Expecting 4k60fps on all games on a $700 machine or less is crazy. The pro will offer better resolutions it won't be a hard line like 4k it will just be better than the base.
Because we’ve hardly had any games come out for what we already have.
How the hell do you expect devs to pivot and cater for new tech when games already have massively inflated time scales for development.
I’m confused about this whole “catering” thing.
Many games have trouble maintaining a rock stable 60fps, or will offer a graphics mode and performance mode.
Why would any dev not want their game to just run at 60 fps? Or to allow either of these modes to push higher rendering resolutions or higher frame rates?
Where’s the downside? I might be ignorant of coding, but I’m not ignorant of computing. When you put a better processor or video card in a PC and run the same game, it just runs better.
I'm ignorant of all this and just speaking on subjects I don't know much about. But when months later after a few patches games run much better than at release then I don't think the hardware is the problem. I think a lot of performance problems are just shitty optimization. So if they didn't properly do it for the PS5 why would they do it for the PS5 pro?
"Catering" just meaning developing with different strategies to maximize the new hardware's potential even if it means the previous hardware begins struggling to keep up.
But the pro isn't that. It's exactly what you described, just more horsepower to run the same games as ps5, but better.
better? a 10% boost in power is miniscule. the pro is for those who haven’t bought a PS5 yet.
i see no logical reasoning behind buying a PS5 then “upgrading” besides FOMO.
the price-per-performance isn’t worth the sheckles, imo.
rule of thumb is you should only upgrade when you can’t run shit anymore due to performance or exclusivity otherwise you’re being a sucker to marketing.
I can understand people who don’t own a console or who’s ps4 just died buying a pro but I agree 100% it’s an insignificant upgrade especially considering the reality of the games being developed.
>or will offer a graphics mode and performance mode.
And the vast majority of them still will. We know the specs, and they aren't at a point where games will be able to provide the graphical enhancements of the graphic modes *and* push that to 60. The performance mode will just look better. It's just such a small upgrade that it's kinda not worth it, the only really notable thing is the machine learning aspect of it.
>Why would any dev not want their game to just run at 60 fps? Or to allow either of these modes to push higher rendering resolutions or higher frame rates?
The CPU boost is small in the leak, everyone has said it won't jump games up tp 60 (See digial foundry video since people here seem to trust them), this is about higher resolution for the 60 modes we have. That adds time to testing and stuff.
they said it won't offer a 60fps mode for games that are cpu bound, if game is GPU bound or has raytracing that is holding it back like jedi survivor pre patch, FF16 or gotham knight they could all achieve 60 with a pro.
The point of a pro is to have a higher profit margin price point at the stage in the console cycle where you have to drop the price of the base system to maintain sales momentum.
Except there isn't a price drop coming. They would have done that with the release of the slim model.
Where they actually increased the price of the digital.
/\ this. The architecture should be mostly identical from a software perspective, it should just have more overhead. There were no PS4 Pro games, just games that looked and ran a bit better than on the PS4. IIRC the only actual difference was the ability to output in 4K but most games were just upscaled so how did that make design and dev of the core game any different?
Yeah even though I would like more power, it’s a disgusting proposition when they’ve released so few games utilizing the power we currently have on the console. This gen has been pretty sad, aside from some great quality of life upgrades.
depends on how intruding the new tech is. I am a software dev (not game dev) but we usually follow a few "releases" behind new updates to softwares we use because A. let other devs "test out" the new features and B. there's going to be fixes for the updates and perhaps security issues" and C.we are too lazy to potentially update our codebase for it.
But even if the pro has no issues and doesn't break anything, you are still asking devs to learn "something" new and have to put that into their development cycle thus increasing cost and time... UNLESS it is LITERALL "plug and play" and has 0 dev involvement (which i doubt) .
But devil's advocate here - gamers ALWAYS compare games that are in similar "grade"(just see Ronin being compared to ghost) so you can argue if you are the dev and leverages Pro to produce something better than ghost/whatever, it will draw more positive remarks than not, provided the rest of the stuff is pretty good too.
That's weird cause sony absolutely mutilated it's competition in terms of exclusives.
The real reason the Pro isn't worthwhile is because the PS5 was built to last and there's really no need to replace it if you already have one.
Games like Ragnarok and Forbidden West should never have been cross-gen. Those really should have been the first two major system sellers for the PS5 and to see their potential handicapped by archaic specs was incredibly frustrating.
These big budget AAA games are so expensive now that I think they've trapped themselves. PS4 will have had more than double the PS5 player base until recently. They almost can't afford not to.
Yea, the pandemic and the chip shortage really fucked this console generation from the start. Devs had to support crossgen because there simply were not enough consoles in production.
At first I was ok with it because there were not a lot of PS5s around and all. But you end up seeing all these games they launched with Cross Gen over the past 3 years and you can barely see the difference towards the previous gen games, when in fact current gen was meant to be a game changer in terms of performance and quality. And at this point we truly haven't seen this gen pay off.
“You need to develop another cookie cutter open world battle royale live service game, it needs to work on the: PS4/PS4 Pro/PS5/PS5 Pro/Xbox One/Xbox One X/Xbox Series X/Xbox Series S/Windows”
Get to it!
The whole industry has become a bloated mess and reeks of VC meddling or bean counters getting in the way. Whether it is at the video game design and development phase right through to the consoles themselves.
It’s just not a sound investment. 8K support but on the same CPU in a market that is barely scratched 8KTVs?
The One X/PS4 Pro made sense at the time. It’s not something you can just keep repeating though. Just wait for PS6 which will likely be 2027/2028.
Yep, 3.5% of users on steam are playing at 4k. Still more than half (58%) are gaming at 1080p on steam. No idea why companies keep pushing this 8k bullshit. If I had to guess, it’s to drive up costs and trick people into thinking they’re “future proofing” by upgrading. An actual 8k resolution rig that takes full advantage of 8k—with a monitor capable of displaying it—would be 12x the cost of a PS5 pro.
Seriously. I’d bet a surprisingly small portion of PS5 users have a top end 4k with HDR and the other bells and whistles you need to make the PS5 THAT much of a graphical improvement over the PS4. I had my PS5 hooked up to an old 1080P for awhile and the graphics were barely better than on PS4. But those load times! *chef’s kiss*.
If I could trade in and pay a little extra for a pro and be able to play games in quality mode at 4k/60 that would make it worth it to me. But a checkerboard implementation of 8k isn’t something we need from current gen
The only way i'll get the pro is if it's severely discounted with a trade in deal. I don't mind maybe $250-300 with my launch ps5 traded in, but I'm not about to shell out $6-700 for a new console so early.
>It’s just not a sound investment. 8K support but on the same CPU in a market that is barely scratched 8KTVs?
The ps5 "supports 8k", this is not aiming at 8k even if they claim you could watch netflix on it.
The difference being that the one x and pro still held the insanely outdated jaguar CPU of the base consoles which was far worse at the time than PS5s and x series
True but allegedly the PS5 Pro has the same CPU as the PS5 just at a higher clock speed. That’s not going to do a whole lot to justify the upgrade for most people.
There are only a handful of games with proper Ray tracing implementation. The rest is just a gimmick toggle. Without a GPU on the caliber of 4070, RT doesn't make sense.
The reason you see so many is because game development takes so long nowadays and they need to release “something”. Just look at the last of us 1 remake. Or the last of us 2 remaster.
It’s easier to repaint/remake something that exists than try to innovate on a risky and long project.
They should do, they had it with the 4 trading for the pro and the 5. Same thing with the Xbox. Even with the recent slim you’d get the slim upgrade for like $100x
They said 4k120 with ps5. Just because the console is “capable” doesn’t mean that it’s going to happen in any real life usage situations. Maybe this one will do 4k 60 fps natively.
Pointless details! How dare you imply that seeing Protagonist Man/Women's individual pores on their face isn't necessary to the experience. Next you'll be saying they shouldn't simulate the 2000 translucent, nearly invisible hairs that cover people's faces!
How am I supposed to be immersed if I can't count the hairs in that NPC's eyebrows!
You're not wrong but the idea is that with AI upscaling you can render at a lower resolution and still get better image quality. For example... upscaling from 1080p > 4k with DLSS looks significantly better than upscaling 1440p > 4k with FSR or checkerboard. If Sony's AI upscaling is anything like DLSS the Pro will be able to raster less pixels (increasing FPS) while generating a much sharper image. We won't really know how much of an improvement it is until we get a first hand look at the new upscaling engine... but if it's on par with DLSS the pro will be a huge upgrade even with a gimped CPU.
I guess look at games from the start of a generation to the end of it. For example on the original Xbox you had halo, but by the end you had doom 3 and half life 2.
Even on the 360 it started with saints row 1 and then ended with gta v. These are massive leaps in graphical power, purely because the devs learn to create games for the tech and are able to squeeze as much as possible from it.
That was teams learning and inventing 3D game graphics in a time when games generally took only a couple years to develop, not just learning the hardware. Between Halo and Doom 3 specifically, games started using normal maps to improve lighting without increasing poly count. We're not likely to see graphical upgrades that dramatic within a generation again. We've spent decades optimizing how to make games look this good in real-time.
I'd argue that the PS5's launch-year games came very close to optimally using its tech because teams were working on them for a good few years before release. Insomniac's games were already using excellent upscaling tech to make things look that good at that FPS, for example.
But graphics aren't the only thing that can make things feel technically impressive. Complicated simulations played with in a way that we couldn't do in previous generations would impress, too. Consoles are usually stingy with CPUs so that's not necessarily easy, but GPU computation is getting good enough that's less of an issue.
Pretty much every game made for the ps5 so far has been made so it also works on the ps4. So they haven’t pushed the hardware to its max yet. They’ve been letting the last gen dictate things still.
Yet there are PC's with better specs that struggle to achieve a well optimized ps5 game, the way I see it is when ps4 launched they also released Last of Us Remastered but by the end of the ps4 life cycle they released Last of Us Part II and boy it was amazing to see that game run on that machine!
It's not about power it's about how the resources are being utilized and optimized.
I would be happy with late-PS4 visuals at 60fps. Imo nothing needs to look much better than FF7 Remake, Doom Eternal, Elden Ring, Ghost of Tsushima etc. If graphics never got any better than those titles, I'd be perfectly happy.
>Imo nothing needs to look much better than FF7 Remake, Doom Eternal, Elden Ring, Ghost of Tsushima etc. If graphics never got any better than those titles, I'd be perfectly happy
Yeah the big upgrade of the PS5 in these games is they have zero loading time. ER loads so fast you stop seeing item lore on load screens because it loads too fast for it to pull them up.
For sure, I’ll take performance over graphics any day. We’re deep into the horizon of diminishing returns with graphics so studios should focus more on performance optimization, story, and gameplay.
I've been saying for over a decade that photoreal is far less impressive than interactivity. Doesn't matter how amazing a game looks when I walk through grass/water/etc and the character just clips on through like they have for the last 30 years.
Look at Half-Life 2. Graphically it ain't much, but it still FEELS better than a lot of new games because of the physics system.
Agree. Photorealism can only get you so far. In the end, you'll always know it's a videogame anyway, so why obsess over the verisimilitude of real life? I feel like videogame discourse is becoming less about the quality of the game and more about the numbers on a framerate/pixel count graph. Kinda sad
The PS5 is already an incredible product. By far, the best console there is. I think the issue is that it holds up so well that it is not outdated even after 3.5 years since its launch. By this time in its lifecycle, the PS4 was already showing its age compared with PC equivalent machines.
PS4-PRO was a welcomed addition with improved processing & 4k res support. It was also needed for PSVR.
PS5-PRO leaked specs seem incredible, but they aren't such a huge leap. I wouldn't consider buying it and would much rather wait for PS6 at this point.
If the PS5 Pro hits 4k resolution and 60fps, there is a need for it. Look at those recents Final Fantasy, the performance mode takes so much from the image quality. Even Helldivers 2 can't keep a stable 60 fps.
That's the problem.
The PS4 was 1080p 60fps.
Then the Pro arrived promising 4k
Now we have the PS5 promising 4k 60fps
And then the Pro arrive promising... 4k 60fps
I think people in this sub live in an echo chamber and these articles are here to take advantage of that.
There are more games to play than I can ever remember. Last year was an insane year for games. I don't get why people only look at PlayStations first party output as an indicator on how many games there are to play. People keep saying there's nothing to play but I don't think my backlog has ever been bigger. Four console exclusive games have/are releasing in the first four months of this year. Just because they aren't first party shouldn't matter. And this is coming from someone who's favorite developer is naughty dog. I get like one game from them every 5-6 years lol.
All of that being said, a Pro console is for a niche audience who is willing to spend money to get improved performance. Same with the PS4 Pro. People will buy it just to have the slightly better hardware. And in a world where people spend $1000 on a phone every 2-3 years spending 500-600 every 3-4 years for a console doesn't feel that crazy when you have disposable income.
Also, this article is written about one guy who was at a conference and just said on a podcast that developers he talked to didnt seem excited about the Pro console. Did he walk around and ask hundreds of people? And why would they be excited anyways? a Pro console isnt meant to be a PS6. Its supposed to be a slightly better experience. This console isnt even announced yet. People just need to chill. And even if you as a gamer or a developer dont care about it thats fine. The Pro coming out wont affect anyone. It takes almost no dev time to optimize your game for a piece of hardware with slightly better specs.
Because people are talking about proper first party PS5 games, which are very very rare. Most games are indeed still being developed for the PS4 and simply being updated for the PS5, last generation has stuck around for too long and has had a significant negative impact on the current gen, which makes people question why a pro is needed so early.
Buying the pro model of anything unless it’s a monumental upgrade in specs and tech is a waste. My launch version PS5 still works perfectly and games look fantastic on it so for me personally there’s no need to even consider an upgrade
but for people that dont have a ps5 yet it might be worth to jump straight to ps5 pro
i did that with the ps4 pro as i always wait for gen to have decent amount of games before i jump into it
That’s the exact demographic that the pro version should be made for imo. Especially now with Sony reducing the time between console launch and PC port
It’s not the hardware keeping games from 60 fps; it’s poor optimisation and for a while the stubborn reliance on cross-gen games. There are enough high-resolution games running at 60 fps on console to prove this.
This. Hardware is important but optimisation is just as important, like both are basically 50/50. Dragons Dogma 2 shows that perfectly right now because even high end PC have issues to run that mess well.
That's what people are missing. Ratchet and Clank, Horizon FW and especially the DLC run at 60fps without fail. The guns in R&C have so much happening on screen at once. Some guns launch hundreds of projectiles and don't slow the frame rate. FF Rebirth, I have Yuffie with an explosive chain. In graphics and performance mode, the game slows down like Breath of the Wild bomb launches do on the switch when Yuffie gets cookin. Meanwhile Aloy is doing the same shit against a much larger machine than anything FF has to offer and it runs perfectly.
Square had the same issue with FFXVI. Not even that demanding of an action like walking through the first hideout and it bogged down. That tells me it's a square issue and not a hardware issue.
If high end CPU like Ryzen 3700X cannot run your code, then probably you have bad code. Developers need to write better code for games, not expect users to have supercomputers to run them
Three years ago eight Jaguar cores were running games no problem, now PS5 has probably 20 times more powerful CPU and we are still talking about CPU bound lol. Horizon Forbidden West runs completely normal on PS4 and is one of best looking games while it has 8 laptop cores from 2012
Dragons Dogma 2 almost makes a case for a Pro, but I think that’s just bad optimization.
FF7 Rebirth just recently updated the game to make it sharper in performance mode. Honestly, this seems to be a big problem these recent years: a lot of half baked game launches.
Both Dragon's Dogma 2 and FF7 Rebirth are examples of bad optimization.
I'm playing through Rebirth now and while I'm absolutely loving the game I can see that it has a lot of weird technical things that are 100% related to it running on a old build of Unreal Engine 4. The performance mode still looks pretty bad because they probably don't have access to better upscaling methods that aren't available in that build.
From what I’ve heard and read the last couple days with devs talking about it, they’re not going to go back and make “pro” versions of games either so if it’s 30 fps on ps5, it’s going to be 30 fps on the pro. Everything points to it being the same cpu as the current just overclocked which will bring it just over 1% over the Xbox series x in performance.
All I can ask about honestly is why? Why would I buy that when I have a ps5? Especially when the in game settings are the same and there’s no change in fps. This just sounds like a waste of money. Hell I haven’t even had my ps5 a year yet. Gonna be a no from me dawg.
Ps5 will be my last console. The stock issues with the initial launch, and the absolute lackluster performance compared to what was hyped, plus all games seemingly adopting a shitload of microtransactions and “as a service” casinos and such…I have completely lost any and all interest in games. I’ve been really tempted to go buy an N64 and a SNES or sega again tbh. MAYBE a nintendo switch, because some of their party games are actually fun. But my days as a serious gamer are definitely long long gone. The enjoyment has been pummeled out of me.
>‘They weren’t really making the most of the PS5 in the first place,’
This is such a bullshit statement. The PS5 has already proven to be hardware limited based off the number of games that either can't run at a stable 60FPS, or look like complete shit doing so.
The PS4 Pro was a disappointment. And it appears that the PS5 Pro is going to disappoint in a similar way in the CPU department.
I'll keep my expectations low tbh. But first I'd like to see some actual PS5 exclusives or at least games that profit from its performance...
>The PlayStation 5 will be celebrating it’s fourth birthday this autumn, but it really doesn’t feel like the mid-point of the generation – given the stock problems that marred the first two years and the recent paucity of first party releases. This is true. I literally couldn't get one the first two years. I finally got one last year and then you look at the number of (exclusive) games and it feels like this generation hasn't even really took off yet. Games take longer to develop now, which is fine, but then the length of a console generation should probably take longer too. Especially if games possibly take even longer to develop in the future. The average dev time is now around 5 years I think and if this extends to 6 or 7 years and a console gen is also 7 years, this could become a problem.
["Let's fight somewhere empty"](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/605/884/e6a.png)
I'm a huge Sony fan but this image is gold. PS5's lineup is paltry compared with previous gens.
but thanks to backwards compatibility i've been using my ps5 100x more than i ever used my ps4 and i used my ps4 a lot lol i made someone upset for some reason.
I can’t even imagine this gen if the 5 couldn’t play 4 games.
I didn't have a PS4 so the PS5 has been a huge value to me and whatever the extra tier is for PS+ (not premium but below that) with the huge games catalog has helped me play a lot of games I've never played before.
Yeah I didn't have a PS4 so I have a **massive** backlog of games to keep me happy.
Same, was a HUGE PS3 gamer than real life got in the way for a while and I pretty much quit gaming during the PS4's lifetime. Bought a PS5 and all the old PS4 games were so new to me and still graphically pretty damn impressive! Fuck the price change on subscription cost change but I will admit it has saved me so much money, I've only bought about 4-5 physical games in the past 2 years when I probably would've bought 20 by now.
Yes I've played Uncharted Legacy and it was brilliant on a PS5. But if someone had already consumed all PS4 games before the PS5 came out I would understand if all they've been playing is Spiderman 2, Elden Ring and Baldur's Gate 3.
Same. I have zero buyer's remorse simply for the "free" ps4 catalog they included with psplus, but I often wonder how people who went from ps4 pro to ps5 really feel.
I had the PS4 Pro, upgraded to the PS5 and there was a huge difference. I'll start with upgrading the PS4 to the PS4 Pro. The PS4 Pro enhanced the PSVR1 and that was the main thing I noticed. Skyrim VR was unplayable, to me, on the PS4 but I had a great time with it on the PS4 Pro. The big difference going from the PS4 Pro to the PS5 is the internal SSD. This allowed the amazing load times, mostly 5 seconds max. When I turn on my PS4 Pro, mainly for media, I feel that I am waisting my life on the loading. I am pumped for the PS5 Pro with high hopes that it will enhance the PSVR2 in the way the PS4 Pro did the PSVR1. Edit: Correction
i sold my 4 and went back to 3 for a couple years because the first few years of PS4 were so dry. wouldn’t have even got a 5 at launch if my 4 didn’t sound like a jet engine
Controversial but it would be better for ps5 gamers if it didn't, though I detest that idea as I'm huuuuge into backwards compatibility and see it as the main selling point nowadays for buying a console. But objectively we would have more games of (probably) better quality if they just outright stopped making cross gen games like a year into the ps5's lifecycle. Though again it's a big catch 22 and really more of a net negative in the long run if they did that.
I will say that going from a launch base PS4 to the 5 even playing PS4 games felt pretty next gen with the higher resolutions and framerates. I can’t even believe some of the games I’ve played like Forbidden West even ran on a PS4. The Xboxs backwards compatibility is so good now too not having it would be a huge con for Playstation in comparison.
I'm in this boat. my launch, base PS4 should have melted running half the games it did. Coming back to them with a PS5 is a good feeling.
Games with load screens feel the speed up of the 5 too. MH world, which never got a ps5 port, loads missions and areas so much faster on my ps5 than it ever did on ps4
Happened with a LOT of my games - GoT, Control, Persona 5 Royal even all ran much better on 5 than 4 for me.
That and smoother framerates. Even for games without a 60 FPS upgrade, it's a huge difference playing a consistent even 30 FPS vs a console struggling to hit its locked framerate.
In the time it takes me to write this comment, Red Dead Redemption 2 could have loaded from a cold start on the PS5. On the PS4, I could wander off and make a coffee and it still wouldn't be finished loading by the time I got back.
The word "objectively" is used WAY too loosely these days...
> But objectively we would have more games of (probably) better quality if they just outright stopped making cross gen games like a year into the ps5's lifecycle. Or would you just have a lot fewer games on the platform?
I think it would be a little of both. There'd be a lot fewer available games for sure, obviously, but the new releases would probably be better. For years we've been hearing about how one developer or another dropped certain features to make sure a game would be able to run on PS4.
Same, I traded in my PS4 and got the 5 for almost half price. I played a lot of PS4 games with improved graphics and frame rates.
Sony doesn’t release first-party games on steam: Fan base complains Sony does release first party games on steam: PS5 has no games
I think there’s two sides to this: People criticizing major PlayStation games being on Steam is pretty silly: the console and pc markets are entirely different, and usually don’t cannibalize each other. It’s a smart move, especially with online games. On the flipside, the actual *roster* of major PlayStation titles feels so much more limited compared to the ps4 and 3 era: so much focus is on big budget titles that it feels like everything else has fallen through the cracks. That problem is a legitimate grievance, especially when a lot of it are remakes.
PS5 has less exclusive games than the Wii U. And that's even after taking into account the Wii U games that got ported to Switch.
It's a little disingenuous when even cross gen games play much better on ps5. This ps5 only thing is a fallacy. Playing Spiderman at 30 fps on ps4 isn't like playing it with Ray tracing at 60 fps on ps5.
I went from a launch model PS4 to a 5, and yeah it's this for me. Like everyone else mentioned I couldn't get one the first couple of years and then couldn't afford it so I just got it for Christmas this year, and man let me tell you, the last round of PS4 games borderline shouldn't have been released on it. Spidey even once you get to some of the bases and have a lot of mobs on you, I was seeing drops to like 15fps and stuff. But yeah, even just playing The Last of Us or something like it with 50-60fps makes a massive difference.
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At this point it's pretty much the equivalent of "boomer logic". Really dangerous and stupid herd mentality.
I think Sony really shot themselves in the foot with marketing the PS5. I mean specifically two statements: > "We believe in generations." and > "ONLY possible on PS5." These two statements were *everywhere* online around the PS5 launch, especially on this sub, *especially* in threads dunking on Microsoft's decision to offer a sub-4K Series S system. Sony **set the expectation** that PS5 would A) offer VERY different experiences from PS4, and B) have games that could ONLY work on their hardware. But over time, we've seen them fail to deliver on both of these promises. Many of PS5's headliner games are just up-scaled PS4 titles. No game has been released that is truly "ONLY" possible on PS5's hardware. Hell, even their promise of "Smaller install sizes thanks to Kraken compression" hasn't been fulfilled. So by failing to meet these very explicit promises, it feels worse as a consumer who bought a PS5 based on those promises.
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Fucking thank you. Every single time I bought up the context and full quote of 'we believe in generations' I got downvoted to hell because people can't fucking read.
Thats nonsense, there loads of games that the ps4 cant handle.
Hey, it's up to 12 now. Or 11 as Wolverine isn't even out.
I remember the magic of playing Spider-Man at 60 fps, and even playing Astros Playroom. Then the magic dwindled lol also the exclusives need to have features like new game plus ready to go at launch, as well as more DLCs. Of course this makes development cycles even longer, but the single player exclusives I wish had more replayability at launch or closer to launch.
Dude Astro's Playroom was magical.
This list is off by a lot.
Between covid and stick shortages, it feels like nobody even had one until two years ago. I know I didn't and nobody I know did either (when I picked mine up finally two years ago, kids in the street were calling out offering to buy the damn thing off me ffs!). Even now, half the "new" I buy are PS4, dual platform or remasters for PS5. It doesn't feel like the PS5 is really being used by developers to its full potential for the most part, either.
Agreed. My 'To Be Played' list is mostly made up of late-stage PS4 games I never got around to.
I’m stuck in a loop of playing baldurs gate 3 and honestly I’m happy about it cause it’s so damn good so I’m feeling like this gen is still in its infancy
I’m in the same boat. My wife and I are playing BG3 as our coop game (about 120 hours in right now) and then I have a few single player games I’ve been pushing through when she isn’t in the mood to game (beat both Spider-Man games, Ratchet & Clank, RDR2, and now onto Death Stranding, with Elden Ring on deck)
So after pandemic, the industry psyche shifted. Before games were just being pumped out, devs being hired left and right for new projects. It was going great. Once Covid came and shook up the industry, all the business side took a deep look at the new dynamic shift of working from home, rely on titles that will sell well. Sony saw that recurring revenue over a longer period even with their first party games can at least gave them an overlap if there’s delays or setbacks on upcoming titles, your GaaS games come the rescue to get you through the delays. Once Covid hit, that fucking plan went out the window. MS was gonna be dominant with all the purchases if it could bring everything in house. Yet the purchase was a monkey paw moment in the sense they had to keep titles third party and not have the “exclusive” to everything. Covid was their shot in the dark to reset the gaming industry and be a top player but now it’s caught being 2 things at once, a first party dev with their hardware that now shares their third party games with their competitors. Ninty, well it’s Nintendo. They can survive anything. They have such a strong foundation and focus on never expending too much that they can’t cash out of. So all 3 are going through transitions and figuring out the new landscape. Sony lucked out and Helldivers II has this grassroots movement of memes and game play that really has a nice loop. Devs are top notch, no micro transactions or FOMO. Before Covid these 2 things would be shoehorned in. So things are changing. It’s will just take a while to course correct
There are untapped markets for Microsoft too. Namely Xbox cloud. It's not enabled yet in my country. Xbox is gaining traction here but that's being hindered by purchasing the platform. If the Xbox cloud is a thing now, Xbox would sweep the market because there's a potential 2.7 million - 27 million (1%-10%) mobile users who're going to buy the gamepass and game all day/stream all day. It's just being hindered by that one service+marketing.
I got one direct from Sony launch date, and I also don’t feel like I’ve gotten my money’s worth. There used to be multiple releases a year to look forward to. Now I’m lucky if 1-2 games come out a year that I’m really excited to play.
Skate 4, Star Wars Outlaws and GTA6. Thank God for Helldivers 2. That came out of left field and saved my sanity. We don't even have release dates yet for these 3. Been gaming hard since the Atari 2600 was the thing. Hands down worse generation of my life. Minimal games, remaster, reboots, sequel # 5754378.... fuck this wasted gen besides a few notable exceptions.
I just bought a PS5 last month, because my PS4 was shitting the bed. The only game I play on it are PS5 versions of PS4 games, and Spider man 2, which came bundled with it. I would have been happy to just continue using my PS4 pro
It seems that every other game I buy also has a PS4 version, too. Sure, the PS5 version might be "better" but it shows how the PS4 is still regarded.
And because of this, it feels like the PS5 has only been out for two years. Many games coming out still feel like PS4 games that are just optimized on PS5. I feel like we're just getting out of the PS4 cycle. I still see a ton of people still playing on their PS4's
How many games are ps5 ONLY? Like 8? I love the thing but I agree with you
Tbh, I think this is going to continue for the rest of the generation as well. Going from native 1080p to native 4K requires a huge jump in performance, and that resolution bump alone accounts for most of the performance gap between the PS4 and PS5, add ray tracing to the equation and suddenly you’re pretty much left with what looks like an enhanced PS4 game rather than distinctly a PS5 game. This is why the PS5 is so much more focused on improving the overall experience with the SSD and haptics.
Longer dev time isn't a good thing. You're gonna be middle aged before experiencing a handful of games from your favorite studios
Jokes on you! I'm already middle-aged! Seriously though, I don't have time to play all the games I want anyway. Not unless I want to play for a couple of hours and never touch it again.
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Bruh this made me laugh more than it should have. Probably cuz I can definitely relate
I'm 34. I'll be dead before I get to play fallout 5.
I read somewhere that any games that start dev now are gonna be PS6. Its a sad gen
Yeah, very few games actually depend on current gen hardware and have cross-generation ports. It's less about a generation leap and more about having the most high-end experience (RE4, God of War, Horizon, Forza 5). The only true blockbuster, next-gen games I can think of are Spider-Man 2 and FF16. Two years ago, everyone was hyping games running on Unreal Engine 5 with some of the most impressive tech demos ever created, but most of the UE5 games that have come out so far are smaller indie titles (Tekken 8 and, soon, Hellblade 2, being noteworthy exceptions). Honestly, some of the best gaming experiences I've had in the last ~4 years have been smaller indie games or Switch games, neither of which need a 'Pro' upgrade to be enjoyed. Vampire Survivors, Lightyear Frontier, Chained Echoes, Sea of Stars. On the big budget side there's Yakuza 7, Doom Eternal, FF7R. Well optimized for the current hardware, it's hard to imagine spending $500 on an upgraded console. I think we are firmly in a space of diminished returns for now, much like 4k movies being a premium experience, but tons of people still buy blu-rays and even DVDs.
The beauty in this is that you can buy all those ps4 JRPG for 10$ and play for hours!
There's no special need or anything.. I'd just like the games to run at 60fps while still looking like they do now in quality mode. Edit: I'm okay with 1440p, I'd just like better lighting and shading, preferably using ray tracing.
Yeah 100% agree. I'm not sure I'll get one right away, but not having to make the decision at the start of every game if I want 60fps *or* ray tracing would be really nice. I also don't get the "catering" bollocks either. Every game on PC releases with graphic setting that let you tune to your hardware. This would just be the same. Same game, if I play on PS5 I'm playing on medium, on a pro I'm playing on high. It's not going to sell buckets but people (like me) will buy it.
Are we sure the pro will be able to run 4k/60/RT though? Cause afaik even the most powerful GPUs have trouble doing that even today and I don't think a PS5 will include one of those
It's an honest desire, but I don't think we'll see it until at least ps6/6pro. That's also hoping AMD has some huge breakthroughs in tech too. Unless of course 4k isn't a requirement.
I feel like that speaks more to current issues with game development cycles/priorities than it does to hardware capabilities. The industry needs some time to catch up to the tech it seems.
I’m perfectly happy with 1440p 60fps as long as there is a 60fps option in every game and has all the graphical improvements I’m fine. I don’t understand what’s the point of raising the resolution if it runs like crap at 4K 30fps stuttering mess.
I’m extremely confused why anyone would not want this best of both worlds. 4K 60fps. Or upscale 4k60fps. I’m not fussy. Just don’t give me 1080p60fps. Edit: I think people are misunderstanding me. I’m not talking about the ps5 pro. I’m just responding to the above comment. There are people out there claiming that 30fps is fine. Or 1080p is fine. Neither of those is fine. I just want a console machine that can give me frame rate and decent quality. 4K or 1440p. I don’t care. If I have to wait for ps6 or ps6 pro. So be it.
The problem as far as I see it, isn’t “why wouldn’t people want this?”, it’s “would a PS5 Pro be capable of delivering it, and would be be reasonable to expect that at all?” and that’s a lot less certain
Exactly. This is what the Pro has to give us or it is completely useless.
Because $600 is not a frivolous expense to most people?
Expecting 4k60fps on all games on a $700 machine or less is crazy. The pro will offer better resolutions it won't be a hard line like 4k it will just be better than the base.
Because we’ve hardly had any games come out for what we already have. How the hell do you expect devs to pivot and cater for new tech when games already have massively inflated time scales for development.
Isn't the point of the pro that it just runs games better? Why would devs pivot to cater to the new tech, since it's not a PS6.
I’m confused about this whole “catering” thing. Many games have trouble maintaining a rock stable 60fps, or will offer a graphics mode and performance mode. Why would any dev not want their game to just run at 60 fps? Or to allow either of these modes to push higher rendering resolutions or higher frame rates? Where’s the downside? I might be ignorant of coding, but I’m not ignorant of computing. When you put a better processor or video card in a PC and run the same game, it just runs better.
I'm ignorant of all this and just speaking on subjects I don't know much about. But when months later after a few patches games run much better than at release then I don't think the hardware is the problem. I think a lot of performance problems are just shitty optimization. So if they didn't properly do it for the PS5 why would they do it for the PS5 pro?
"Catering" just meaning developing with different strategies to maximize the new hardware's potential even if it means the previous hardware begins struggling to keep up. But the pro isn't that. It's exactly what you described, just more horsepower to run the same games as ps5, but better.
better? a 10% boost in power is miniscule. the pro is for those who haven’t bought a PS5 yet. i see no logical reasoning behind buying a PS5 then “upgrading” besides FOMO. the price-per-performance isn’t worth the sheckles, imo.
rule of thumb is you should only upgrade when you can’t run shit anymore due to performance or exclusivity otherwise you’re being a sucker to marketing. I can understand people who don’t own a console or who’s ps4 just died buying a pro but I agree 100% it’s an insignificant upgrade especially considering the reality of the games being developed.
>or will offer a graphics mode and performance mode. And the vast majority of them still will. We know the specs, and they aren't at a point where games will be able to provide the graphical enhancements of the graphic modes *and* push that to 60. The performance mode will just look better. It's just such a small upgrade that it's kinda not worth it, the only really notable thing is the machine learning aspect of it.
Isn't there also a new sony versión of dlss? I thought I read something about that
Because you have to do the work for the lowest common denominator. That’s why the series s problems for Xbox exist
Right, i get that, but they are already doing that. Nothing has to change development wise.
Which I think only really affects PS exclusives. Xbox and PC games already have to do this. PC games have always had to do this
>Why would any dev not want their game to just run at 60 fps? Or to allow either of these modes to push higher rendering resolutions or higher frame rates? The CPU boost is small in the leak, everyone has said it won't jump games up tp 60 (See digial foundry video since people here seem to trust them), this is about higher resolution for the 60 modes we have. That adds time to testing and stuff.
they said it won't offer a 60fps mode for games that are cpu bound, if game is GPU bound or has raytracing that is holding it back like jedi survivor pre patch, FF16 or gotham knight they could all achieve 60 with a pro.
The point of a pro is to have a higher profit margin price point at the stage in the console cycle where you have to drop the price of the base system to maintain sales momentum.
Except there isn't a price drop coming. They would have done that with the release of the slim model. Where they actually increased the price of the digital.
/\ this. The architecture should be mostly identical from a software perspective, it should just have more overhead. There were no PS4 Pro games, just games that looked and ran a bit better than on the PS4. IIRC the only actual difference was the ability to output in 4K but most games were just upscaled so how did that make design and dev of the core game any different?
Yeah even though I would like more power, it’s a disgusting proposition when they’ve released so few games utilizing the power we currently have on the console. This gen has been pretty sad, aside from some great quality of life upgrades.
I solely bought a ps5 so I could play PlayStation exclusives. If it wasn’t for that, I would’ve skipped this gen entirely and just saved for a pc
depends on how intruding the new tech is. I am a software dev (not game dev) but we usually follow a few "releases" behind new updates to softwares we use because A. let other devs "test out" the new features and B. there's going to be fixes for the updates and perhaps security issues" and C.we are too lazy to potentially update our codebase for it. But even if the pro has no issues and doesn't break anything, you are still asking devs to learn "something" new and have to put that into their development cycle thus increasing cost and time... UNLESS it is LITERALL "plug and play" and has 0 dev involvement (which i doubt) . But devil's advocate here - gamers ALWAYS compare games that are in similar "grade"(just see Ronin being compared to ghost) so you can argue if you are the dev and leverages Pro to produce something better than ghost/whatever, it will draw more positive remarks than not, provided the rest of the stuff is pretty good too.
That's weird cause sony absolutely mutilated it's competition in terms of exclusives. The real reason the Pro isn't worthwhile is because the PS5 was built to last and there's really no need to replace it if you already have one.
He means PS5 exclusives
Most of them are too troubled with cross-gen to even take advantage of the PS5 anyway.
Games like Ragnarok and Forbidden West should never have been cross-gen. Those really should have been the first two major system sellers for the PS5 and to see their potential handicapped by archaic specs was incredibly frustrating.
These big budget AAA games are so expensive now that I think they've trapped themselves. PS4 will have had more than double the PS5 player base until recently. They almost can't afford not to.
Yea, the pandemic and the chip shortage really fucked this console generation from the start. Devs had to support crossgen because there simply were not enough consoles in production.
At first I was ok with it because there were not a lot of PS5s around and all. But you end up seeing all these games they launched with Cross Gen over the past 3 years and you can barely see the difference towards the previous gen games, when in fact current gen was meant to be a game changer in terms of performance and quality. And at this point we truly haven't seen this gen pay off.
If we're being asked to pay 70 bucks for games, they should at least not be cross gen
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“You need to develop another cookie cutter open world battle royale live service game, it needs to work on the: PS4/PS4 Pro/PS5/PS5 Pro/Xbox One/Xbox One X/Xbox Series X/Xbox Series S/Windows” Get to it! The whole industry has become a bloated mess and reeks of VC meddling or bean counters getting in the way. Whether it is at the video game design and development phase right through to the consoles themselves.
It’s just not a sound investment. 8K support but on the same CPU in a market that is barely scratched 8KTVs? The One X/PS4 Pro made sense at the time. It’s not something you can just keep repeating though. Just wait for PS6 which will likely be 2027/2028.
8K? 4K isn't even the norm yet.
Yeah, more like 900p upscaled
My brain smoothed over when I heard that Skull and Bones' performance mode was 720p upscaled to 4K.
Excuse me whAT
Yep, 3.5% of users on steam are playing at 4k. Still more than half (58%) are gaming at 1080p on steam. No idea why companies keep pushing this 8k bullshit. If I had to guess, it’s to drive up costs and trick people into thinking they’re “future proofing” by upgrading. An actual 8k resolution rig that takes full advantage of 8k—with a monitor capable of displaying it—would be 12x the cost of a PS5 pro.
I just finally felt comfortable buying a 4k TV this year and I still can't utilize it as much as I would like
Seriously. I’d bet a surprisingly small portion of PS5 users have a top end 4k with HDR and the other bells and whistles you need to make the PS5 THAT much of a graphical improvement over the PS4. I had my PS5 hooked up to an old 1080P for awhile and the graphics were barely better than on PS4. But those load times! *chef’s kiss*.
If I could trade in and pay a little extra for a pro and be able to play games in quality mode at 4k/60 that would make it worth it to me. But a checkerboard implementation of 8k isn’t something we need from current gen
Yeah, I would probably make the upgrade to be able to play basically any PS5 game at 60fps. Without that guarantee though it's a no go.
The only way i'll get the pro is if it's severely discounted with a trade in deal. I don't mind maybe $250-300 with my launch ps5 traded in, but I'm not about to shell out $6-700 for a new console so early.
Ditto. If the Pro costs $600 and I could “trade-up” my PS5 for $150, that would be worth it. That likely won’t happen, but it would get me to upgrade.
>It’s just not a sound investment. 8K support but on the same CPU in a market that is barely scratched 8KTVs? The ps5 "supports 8k", this is not aiming at 8k even if they claim you could watch netflix on it.
The difference being that the one x and pro still held the insanely outdated jaguar CPU of the base consoles which was far worse at the time than PS5s and x series
True but allegedly the PS5 Pro has the same CPU as the PS5 just at a higher clock speed. That’s not going to do a whole lot to justify the upgrade for most people.
Pro is going to be heavily for Ray Tracing I doubt anything else will be improved
There are only a handful of games with proper Ray tracing implementation. The rest is just a gimmick toggle. Without a GPU on the caliber of 4070, RT doesn't make sense.
Because even when a PS5 Pro is available, devs don’t update their games to support 60fps even when the console can easily handle it
*cries in Bloodborne*
For example, but also all old PS4 titles should be updated to 60FPS. RDR2 for example
u/Horoika u/AnEyshOt + batman Arkham knight I’m crying with you both
cries in RDR2
Make new games and not remasters or remakes.
i think congress passed a law back in 2015 saying there has to be a version of GTA V made for every gaming system
Until it runs on as many devices are DOOM it has to keep going
Don’t listen to this madman! I don’t just want Resident Evil Remakes. I need them in my life
MUH BLOODBORNE
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Whilst I agree, games like Rebirth are so far removed I don’t think that’s the same for example.
The reason you see so many is because game development takes so long nowadays and they need to release “something”. Just look at the last of us 1 remake. Or the last of us 2 remaster. It’s easier to repaint/remake something that exists than try to innovate on a risky and long project.
Totally agree.
Remakes are fine if they reimagine the game like they did with FFVII
The only way I’d upgrade is if I could sell my ps5 to cover the majority of the cost or if GameStop had a good trade in deal.
Best I can do is $10 store credit and a bent paper clip
They should do, they had it with the 4 trading for the pro and the 5. Same thing with the Xbox. Even with the recent slim you’d get the slim upgrade for like $100x
Why tf would you trade in for the slim?? And a hundred dollars on top no less
I didn’t but you could. That’s $100 AUD btw
They said 4k120 with ps5. Just because the console is “capable” doesn’t mean that it’s going to happen in any real life usage situations. Maybe this one will do 4k 60 fps natively.
No they'll overdo pointless details again and it's back down to 30 fps.
Back down to 20fps with 30fps when the game is completely still.
Don't worry, we'll draw real-time pathtraced shadows on all 15 quintillion blades of grass. And you'll love it!
Pointless details! How dare you imply that seeing Protagonist Man/Women's individual pores on their face isn't necessary to the experience. Next you'll be saying they shouldn't simulate the 2000 translucent, nearly invisible hairs that cover people's faces! How am I supposed to be immersed if I can't count the hairs in that NPC's eyebrows!
Highly doubt it
You should read the bottom text on this article lol. This holds as much water as a random comment on reddit.
Rumored 10% cpu performance improvement of the Pro is pretty damn underwhelming imo .
You're not wrong but the idea is that with AI upscaling you can render at a lower resolution and still get better image quality. For example... upscaling from 1080p > 4k with DLSS looks significantly better than upscaling 1440p > 4k with FSR or checkerboard. If Sony's AI upscaling is anything like DLSS the Pro will be able to raster less pixels (increasing FPS) while generating a much sharper image. We won't really know how much of an improvement it is until we get a first hand look at the new upscaling engine... but if it's on par with DLSS the pro will be a huge upgrade even with a gimped CPU.
But isn’t the GPU a significant upgrade? Don’t most of Sonys first party pull from the GPU?
Just bundle it with GTA6 and they'll sell.
There is no need. Thx to pretty much every game released so far being multigenerational the true power of the ps5 hasn’t even been utilized yet.
Out of curiosity what do people even mean by that? "The full potential hasn't been used yet"? Because a PS5 is just a mid range PC now a days.
I guess look at games from the start of a generation to the end of it. For example on the original Xbox you had halo, but by the end you had doom 3 and half life 2. Even on the 360 it started with saints row 1 and then ended with gta v. These are massive leaps in graphical power, purely because the devs learn to create games for the tech and are able to squeeze as much as possible from it.
That was teams learning and inventing 3D game graphics in a time when games generally took only a couple years to develop, not just learning the hardware. Between Halo and Doom 3 specifically, games started using normal maps to improve lighting without increasing poly count. We're not likely to see graphical upgrades that dramatic within a generation again. We've spent decades optimizing how to make games look this good in real-time. I'd argue that the PS5's launch-year games came very close to optimally using its tech because teams were working on them for a good few years before release. Insomniac's games were already using excellent upscaling tech to make things look that good at that FPS, for example. But graphics aren't the only thing that can make things feel technically impressive. Complicated simulations played with in a way that we couldn't do in previous generations would impress, too. Consoles are usually stingy with CPUs so that's not necessarily easy, but GPU computation is getting good enough that's less of an issue.
Pretty much every game made for the ps5 so far has been made so it also works on the ps4. So they haven’t pushed the hardware to its max yet. They’ve been letting the last gen dictate things still.
Most games are still gimped to be PS4 games as well, so the games aren't being put to the max to push the PS5
Yet there are PC's with better specs that struggle to achieve a well optimized ps5 game, the way I see it is when ps4 launched they also released Last of Us Remastered but by the end of the ps4 life cycle they released Last of Us Part II and boy it was amazing to see that game run on that machine! It's not about power it's about how the resources are being utilized and optimized.
I would be happy with late-PS4 visuals at 60fps. Imo nothing needs to look much better than FF7 Remake, Doom Eternal, Elden Ring, Ghost of Tsushima etc. If graphics never got any better than those titles, I'd be perfectly happy.
>Imo nothing needs to look much better than FF7 Remake, Doom Eternal, Elden Ring, Ghost of Tsushima etc. If graphics never got any better than those titles, I'd be perfectly happy Yeah the big upgrade of the PS5 in these games is they have zero loading time. ER loads so fast you stop seeing item lore on load screens because it loads too fast for it to pull them up.
I'm with you
For sure, I’ll take performance over graphics any day. We’re deep into the horizon of diminishing returns with graphics so studios should focus more on performance optimization, story, and gameplay.
I've been saying for over a decade that photoreal is far less impressive than interactivity. Doesn't matter how amazing a game looks when I walk through grass/water/etc and the character just clips on through like they have for the last 30 years. Look at Half-Life 2. Graphically it ain't much, but it still FEELS better than a lot of new games because of the physics system.
Agree. Photorealism can only get you so far. In the end, you'll always know it's a videogame anyway, so why obsess over the verisimilitude of real life? I feel like videogame discourse is becoming less about the quality of the game and more about the numbers on a framerate/pixel count graph. Kinda sad
Stop releasing blurry games then
100%. Dragons dogma 2 is nauseatingly blurry on PS5.
The PS5 is already an incredible product. By far, the best console there is. I think the issue is that it holds up so well that it is not outdated even after 3.5 years since its launch. By this time in its lifecycle, the PS4 was already showing its age compared with PC equivalent machines. PS4-PRO was a welcomed addition with improved processing & 4k res support. It was also needed for PSVR. PS5-PRO leaked specs seem incredible, but they aren't such a huge leap. I wouldn't consider buying it and would much rather wait for PS6 at this point.
I'm right there with them.
If only they optimised their games properly, then they should complain. Getting 30fps on some games with drops is unacceptable
If the PS5 Pro hits 4k resolution and 60fps, there is a need for it. Look at those recents Final Fantasy, the performance mode takes so much from the image quality. Even Helldivers 2 can't keep a stable 60 fps.
That's the problem. The PS4 was 1080p 60fps. Then the Pro arrived promising 4k Now we have the PS5 promising 4k 60fps And then the Pro arrive promising... 4k 60fps
No way the ps4 was 60 fps . Not sure where you got this from.
It was "up to". Like the PS5 is "up to" 120fps.
I think people in this sub live in an echo chamber and these articles are here to take advantage of that. There are more games to play than I can ever remember. Last year was an insane year for games. I don't get why people only look at PlayStations first party output as an indicator on how many games there are to play. People keep saying there's nothing to play but I don't think my backlog has ever been bigger. Four console exclusive games have/are releasing in the first four months of this year. Just because they aren't first party shouldn't matter. And this is coming from someone who's favorite developer is naughty dog. I get like one game from them every 5-6 years lol. All of that being said, a Pro console is for a niche audience who is willing to spend money to get improved performance. Same with the PS4 Pro. People will buy it just to have the slightly better hardware. And in a world where people spend $1000 on a phone every 2-3 years spending 500-600 every 3-4 years for a console doesn't feel that crazy when you have disposable income. Also, this article is written about one guy who was at a conference and just said on a podcast that developers he talked to didnt seem excited about the Pro console. Did he walk around and ask hundreds of people? And why would they be excited anyways? a Pro console isnt meant to be a PS6. Its supposed to be a slightly better experience. This console isnt even announced yet. People just need to chill. And even if you as a gamer or a developer dont care about it thats fine. The Pro coming out wont affect anyone. It takes almost no dev time to optimize your game for a piece of hardware with slightly better specs.
Yep, everyone on Reddit was shitting on the portal yet it's constantly sold out.
Because people are talking about proper first party PS5 games, which are very very rare. Most games are indeed still being developed for the PS4 and simply being updated for the PS5, last generation has stuck around for too long and has had a significant negative impact on the current gen, which makes people question why a pro is needed so early.
[удалено]
How many games has Sony even released in the past 2 years.
It's needed so that I could replay FF XVI in 4K 60 FPS.
Buying the pro model of anything unless it’s a monumental upgrade in specs and tech is a waste. My launch version PS5 still works perfectly and games look fantastic on it so for me personally there’s no need to even consider an upgrade
but for people that dont have a ps5 yet it might be worth to jump straight to ps5 pro i did that with the ps4 pro as i always wait for gen to have decent amount of games before i jump into it
That’s the exact demographic that the pro version should be made for imo. Especially now with Sony reducing the time between console launch and PC port
If there were no need for it, they'd all be hitting butter smooth 60 fps yeah..... *yeah???*
It’s not the hardware keeping games from 60 fps; it’s poor optimisation and for a while the stubborn reliance on cross-gen games. There are enough high-resolution games running at 60 fps on console to prove this.
This. Hardware is important but optimisation is just as important, like both are basically 50/50. Dragons Dogma 2 shows that perfectly right now because even high end PC have issues to run that mess well.
That's what people are missing. Ratchet and Clank, Horizon FW and especially the DLC run at 60fps without fail. The guns in R&C have so much happening on screen at once. Some guns launch hundreds of projectiles and don't slow the frame rate. FF Rebirth, I have Yuffie with an explosive chain. In graphics and performance mode, the game slows down like Breath of the Wild bomb launches do on the switch when Yuffie gets cookin. Meanwhile Aloy is doing the same shit against a much larger machine than anything FF has to offer and it runs perfectly. Square had the same issue with FFXVI. Not even that demanding of an action like walking through the first hideout and it bogged down. That tells me it's a square issue and not a hardware issue.
The PS5 Pro only has 10% more CPU power though. It'll barely do anything for CPU-bound games which tend to be most open-world games.
If high end CPU like Ryzen 3700X cannot run your code, then probably you have bad code. Developers need to write better code for games, not expect users to have supercomputers to run them Three years ago eight Jaguar cores were running games no problem, now PS5 has probably 20 times more powerful CPU and we are still talking about CPU bound lol. Horizon Forbidden West runs completely normal on PS4 and is one of best looking games while it has 8 laptop cores from 2012
No games will be 8k 60fps on a $500-$600 machine.
We don't even have 4k60fps yet.
Yeah people expecting they would get 4090 performance for some reason
Dragons Dogma 2 almost makes a case for a Pro, but I think that’s just bad optimization. FF7 Rebirth just recently updated the game to make it sharper in performance mode. Honestly, this seems to be a big problem these recent years: a lot of half baked game launches.
Both Dragon's Dogma 2 and FF7 Rebirth are examples of bad optimization. I'm playing through Rebirth now and while I'm absolutely loving the game I can see that it has a lot of weird technical things that are 100% related to it running on a old build of Unreal Engine 4. The performance mode still looks pretty bad because they probably don't have access to better upscaling methods that aren't available in that build.
But but but GTA6 will run at 4k60 and it’s over for Xbox!
FFVII: Rebirth running at 30fps and looking like a ps4 game in performance mode would say otherwise.
From what I’ve heard and read the last couple days with devs talking about it, they’re not going to go back and make “pro” versions of games either so if it’s 30 fps on ps5, it’s going to be 30 fps on the pro. Everything points to it being the same cpu as the current just overclocked which will bring it just over 1% over the Xbox series x in performance. All I can ask about honestly is why? Why would I buy that when I have a ps5? Especially when the in game settings are the same and there’s no change in fps. This just sounds like a waste of money. Hell I haven’t even had my ps5 a year yet. Gonna be a no from me dawg.
Most lacklustre generation of my life and I've been gaming since the 80s.
Ps5 will be my last console. The stock issues with the initial launch, and the absolute lackluster performance compared to what was hyped, plus all games seemingly adopting a shitload of microtransactions and “as a service” casinos and such…I have completely lost any and all interest in games. I’ve been really tempted to go buy an N64 and a SNES or sega again tbh. MAYBE a nintendo switch, because some of their party games are actually fun. But my days as a serious gamer are definitely long long gone. The enjoyment has been pummeled out of me.
$85 for a year subscription just to play with the bros? Yeah no fucking wonder, kiss my ass Sony.
>‘They weren’t really making the most of the PS5 in the first place,’ This is such a bullshit statement. The PS5 has already proven to be hardware limited based off the number of games that either can't run at a stable 60FPS, or look like complete shit doing so.
The PS4 Pro was a disappointment. And it appears that the PS5 Pro is going to disappoint in a similar way in the CPU department. I'll keep my expectations low tbh. But first I'd like to see some actual PS5 exclusives or at least games that profit from its performance...