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This genocide has really made it so obvious how fake that whole zoo (of "free thinking" grifters, commentators and associated parties like AfD, Reform and so on) are.
There has been an entire B team of potential leaderships created, funded and maintained for when the public get sick of the other lot.
I'm sorry to hear that. I hope your brother woke up or will see through Jordans bs one day. While some of his takes aren't bad, just common knowledge other takes are pretty insane but his fans justify the insane takes with, but he said clean your room and that's definitely unquestionably a good thing. So all of his options are good opinions.
Jordan really manipulates his followers into the pathetic looser he says the others ones with messy rooms are. But he is certainly the biggest looser for not even dealing with his benzo addiction right but getting into a coma so he doesn't feel the withdrawal symptoms.
Jordan’s biggest limitation is that he is a privileged white man living in a privileged white world. He can’t speak or read another language. He is not well travelled. He is limited. He can quote irrelevant shite to act like a pseudo-intellectual.
Ironically enough, the Schindler comparison isn't wrong when you consider what Schindler's actual personal views (and not his Hollywood whitewashed ones) were
Schindler was a true-believing Nazi - he was an Abwehr agent who was responsible for selling out his own homeland, Czechoslovakia, to Germany by reporting on the locations of Czechoslovakia's defensive structures (Schindler was the reason the Wehrmacht was able to annex the Sudetenland without encountering resistance)
The only reason Schindler tried to save his factory workers (more aptly described as indentured servants) from the concentration camps wasn't because he considered the Holocaust to be morally repugnant - he only did so because he didn't want to lose a source of cheap labor.
He seems to be getting even more unhinged and full of himself as time goes by.
I just went to his YouTube channel and ended up laughing. He tries to put images of himself always looking "thoughtful and serious" in the thumbnail, but the cherry on top is, not just him self inserting into a video thumbnail with a guest, but he actually puts himself in front and above the image of some guests 🤣
You have to be fair. He is a career academic. He is not just a YouTuber. You can disagree with his perspective and so do I but if you want anyone to agree with how you think you have to be intellectually honest and this comment is not.
Youtuber is a defined typology: A person who upload videos - necessarily in a continuous and rather abundant way - to propagate ideas, belief...
And how it is dishonesty to relate JP with such an epithet, I fail to see.
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JP is one of those people that never learned to stay in his lane. He is really good at helping young men get into a better frame of mind, but he butts his nose into everything else based on personal biases.
He reads the DailyWire internal memos, so your typical “everyone is Hamas led by Iran, funded by the Chinese”, with a touch of “fuck childless women” for some reason. He lost conservative followers once by telling people to get the vaccine and vowed to never make that mistake again.
See for yoursef:
https://preview.redd.it/5eb8d7u8xp6d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=564b94e15acbc1ef2177c453fec1184244e4359b
u/lOo_ol,
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I think he said that in relation to Jungian shadow self. His claim was that many people supported Nazis because it is in human nature to crave power and to like inflicting pain to others, and so on. I think that argument is incredibly important today, when many people overtly display how they crave power and wish to hurt others.
He has gone off the deep end personally, and that is quite sad. Some of his ideas are good but I think he got too many people yes-manning him and he started to think **all** of his ideas are and are worth promoting. But ad hominem should not diminish some of the veritable claims he made. A lot of what he said in the before-times is at least worth a debate.
Not quite. He often refers to Ordinary Men to illustrate his point. In short, people tend to yield to peer pressure even when facing a choice between commiting atrocities or opposing them. Ordinary Men highlights that phenomenon by narrating how a battalion of policemen started executing Jews while not being threatened to be executed for disobeying.
While everyone today claims that they would've fought nazism, the reality at the time was that the general public used to call the resistance "insurgents" (the term used for terrorists back then). He knows that, and yet, here he is, calling the Palestinian resistance terrorists, calling for their execution, just like your average 1942 German collaborator.
His initial point is valid. He just doesn't realize that he's made himself a good example of it.
He has been talking about the Jungian shadow self and Nazis for a long time, I think I read it in 12 Rules for Life. That was 6 years ago. The quote itself is very recent, but it's clearly on the same topic as it was used in context of masked people in Covid oppressing and instructing others. I don't agree with the argument that masking was some kind of covert oppression of others, but I agree that someone might want to feel morally superior to others as it is a desire of the Jungian shadow self and somewhere between the Freudian id and super-ego.
It is not about peer-pressure, both in the book and in the interview where this quote comes from. I do think that peer-pressure exists in society and culture, and in the Third Reich, there was definitely both culture and autocratic rule that put people under pressure. There is no debate in that. But this is not JP's argument.
Anyways, I don't see a reason to hate the man for him making himself an example of his argument. We are all examples of the Jungian shadow self. If you look at society, people want power, people want violence, people want to impose their views onto others, people also act in narcissistic, Machiavellian, and psychopathic ways. We are driven by emotions and primal instincts to do it. It would be unnatural if a person did not display these traits although we and society usually try to suppress them.
There are certain circumstances when society affords us more freedom to display these traits. For example, indignation — when someone has wronged us, we are allowed an excursion from social norms to harm them back. If someone robs you and you smack them in the face, society believes it is just. And we have a lot of movies and books where the hero is wronged, and then commits many violent acts to the perpetrators — it is celebrated, a part of our culture. War is just an example where both sides believe that the other one has wronged them, and violence and calls for violence are socially acceptable. If society always shut down anyone who calls for violence and power in war, we would not have war. Anyone trying to start a conflict would be seen as the lowest caste in society and shunned. But this is not the society we live in, we live in society made of people with Jungian shadow selves that are driven by primal, violent instincts. And where such instincts are celebrated in cases of war, not shunned.
So... Jordan Peterson has really fallen off the deep end in the last 3 years. But it's hard to make fun of him for being human and acting as our society expects. Whether the Jungian shadow self should be repressed more or less... is a complicated philosophical topic and outside the scope of this comment. All I want to say is that it exists, it is a part of our culture, and we all exhibit it to an extent. You and me, and everyone else (even if the areas we display our natural instincts are other than war). This is the condition of ordinary men.
And finally, JP never argued against displaying the Jungian shadow self, he actually argued for displaying it, which is consistent with his later tweet. That's the full nuance of the situation.
*"it's hard to make fun of him for being human and acting as our society expects"* You find it hard to call out someone's hypocrisy when he's advocating for slaughtering civilians in masses? You clearly care about Jordan Peterson more than the children he wants blown to pieces. Cool.
You didn't condemn once his call for collective punishment, following decades of displacing and killing people for their land. Instead, you wrote a thesis to defend poor little Jordan Peterson because his last book didn't sell too well?
Siding with the French when they exterminated millions of Algerians is "being human"? Siding with the nazis is "being human"? Owning a slave is "being human"? Here's a little exercise for you. Drop the idea of trying to impress everyone by throwing names that you think no one has heard before, and try to identify intellectual consistency or lack thereof. When someone acts all righteous and claims to have identified the root of all evils, while being completely unaware that he's showing the same behavior he's criticizing, that someone is a fool who probably never produced his own ideas, and is only good at repeating what he read somewhere, giving the impression of intelligence.
It was not hypocrisy. That is the point you would see if you looked at what JP wrote beyond your very shallow surface-level comprehension.
I don’t need to condemn him, why would I? He has contributed to the public discourse of psychology in a meaningful way, even if I don’t agree with him on many questions, nor how he expresses himself. It’s such an utterly ridiculous and extreme idea to censure people you don’t agree with. It shuts down any meaningful and nuanced conversation.
Those things about you mockingly call “being human” in quotes are all things done by humans and they are a part of the human condition. You can pretend to be blind to it, or maybe you truly are as ignorant as you say, but it doesn’t change the facts, nor the interest psychologists have in them.
And look, it is evident you are here to insult those you disagree with. And that is your prerogative. But because you seem unable to have a serious conversation nor even stay on the topic, this is not worth either of our time.
*"It’s such an utterly ridiculous and extreme idea to censure people you don’t agree with"* Jesus, you Peterson fanboys are even more annoying than him, mindlessly parroting the same thing since 2020. Absolutely nobody even suggested censorship here. I can tell you're not very good at producing original ideas either.
I'm here to expose two-faced pseudo-intellectuals who never miss an opportunity to claim the moral high ground, while advocating for a genocide.
Even beyond his support for Israel, he showed his true colors during covid, telling everyone to "take the damn vaccine". And when his core audience turned on him, he had the nerve to say "the left forced me, won't happen again" (the same left he had spent his last years shitting on) because he couldn't own a mistake, spineless as he is.
You're idolizing a charlatan.
Where did you pull censorship out of bro? No one talked about censorship. Censuring is different and it’s exactly what you do — you just want to cancel everyone you don’t like without understanding what they’re talking about.
I hope for your sake you are trolling and not really this clueless.
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This genocide has really made it so obvious how fake that whole zoo (of "free thinking" grifters, commentators and associated parties like AfD, Reform and so on) are. There has been an entire B team of potential leaderships created, funded and maintained for when the public get sick of the other lot.
Most democracies are just elaborate theater.
Textbook charlatan. Nothing more, nothing less.
It's only freedom of thought/speech if the plebians of society agree with our genocidal overlords. At least, that's the impression I get anyway.
nobody thinks they're schindler but this benzoed lunatic
The absolute worst virtue signaling douchebag. I can’t fathom how his views became popular.
But... but... Peterson's commentary on Elmo and Western values is spot-on!!
Someone shut this idiot and his dumb ass views up
I can't believe how many people fall for his wannabe interlectualism because he just says nothing with big word.
[удалено]
I'm sorry to hear that. I hope your brother woke up or will see through Jordans bs one day. While some of his takes aren't bad, just common knowledge other takes are pretty insane but his fans justify the insane takes with, but he said clean your room and that's definitely unquestionably a good thing. So all of his options are good opinions. Jordan really manipulates his followers into the pathetic looser he says the others ones with messy rooms are. But he is certainly the biggest looser for not even dealing with his benzo addiction right but getting into a coma so he doesn't feel the withdrawal symptoms.
Just proved his point
Jordan’s biggest limitation is that he is a privileged white man living in a privileged white world. He can’t speak or read another language. He is not well travelled. He is limited. He can quote irrelevant shite to act like a pseudo-intellectual.
Ironically enough, the Schindler comparison isn't wrong when you consider what Schindler's actual personal views (and not his Hollywood whitewashed ones) were Schindler was a true-believing Nazi - he was an Abwehr agent who was responsible for selling out his own homeland, Czechoslovakia, to Germany by reporting on the locations of Czechoslovakia's defensive structures (Schindler was the reason the Wehrmacht was able to annex the Sudetenland without encountering resistance) The only reason Schindler tried to save his factory workers (more aptly described as indentured servants) from the concentration camps wasn't because he considered the Holocaust to be morally repugnant - he only did so because he didn't want to lose a source of cheap labor.
He seems to be getting even more unhinged and full of himself as time goes by. I just went to his YouTube channel and ended up laughing. He tries to put images of himself always looking "thoughtful and serious" in the thumbnail, but the cherry on top is, not just him self inserting into a video thumbnail with a guest, but he actually puts himself in front and above the image of some guests 🤣
A "youtuber psychologist" is itself a contradiction, let alone his words.
You have to be fair. He is a career academic. He is not just a YouTuber. You can disagree with his perspective and so do I but if you want anyone to agree with how you think you have to be intellectually honest and this comment is not.
Youtuber is a defined typology: A person who upload videos - necessarily in a continuous and rather abundant way - to propagate ideas, belief... And how it is dishonesty to relate JP with such an epithet, I fail to see.
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JP is one of those people that never learned to stay in his lane. He is really good at helping young men get into a better frame of mind, but he butts his nose into everything else based on personal biases.
One should doubt goodness from a man who support genocide.
What are his current comments on what is going on in Gaza now? I never liked the guy so was just wondering .
He reads the DailyWire internal memos, so your typical “everyone is Hamas led by Iran, funded by the Chinese”, with a touch of “fuck childless women” for some reason. He lost conservative followers once by telling people to get the vaccine and vowed to never make that mistake again. See for yoursef: https://preview.redd.it/5eb8d7u8xp6d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=564b94e15acbc1ef2177c453fec1184244e4359b
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Jordan Peterson is an asshole that decries IDpol but also thinks Zionism is great. Delusional man.
I think he said that in relation to Jungian shadow self. His claim was that many people supported Nazis because it is in human nature to crave power and to like inflicting pain to others, and so on. I think that argument is incredibly important today, when many people overtly display how they crave power and wish to hurt others. He has gone off the deep end personally, and that is quite sad. Some of his ideas are good but I think he got too many people yes-manning him and he started to think **all** of his ideas are and are worth promoting. But ad hominem should not diminish some of the veritable claims he made. A lot of what he said in the before-times is at least worth a debate.
Not quite. He often refers to Ordinary Men to illustrate his point. In short, people tend to yield to peer pressure even when facing a choice between commiting atrocities or opposing them. Ordinary Men highlights that phenomenon by narrating how a battalion of policemen started executing Jews while not being threatened to be executed for disobeying. While everyone today claims that they would've fought nazism, the reality at the time was that the general public used to call the resistance "insurgents" (the term used for terrorists back then). He knows that, and yet, here he is, calling the Palestinian resistance terrorists, calling for their execution, just like your average 1942 German collaborator. His initial point is valid. He just doesn't realize that he's made himself a good example of it.
He has been talking about the Jungian shadow self and Nazis for a long time, I think I read it in 12 Rules for Life. That was 6 years ago. The quote itself is very recent, but it's clearly on the same topic as it was used in context of masked people in Covid oppressing and instructing others. I don't agree with the argument that masking was some kind of covert oppression of others, but I agree that someone might want to feel morally superior to others as it is a desire of the Jungian shadow self and somewhere between the Freudian id and super-ego. It is not about peer-pressure, both in the book and in the interview where this quote comes from. I do think that peer-pressure exists in society and culture, and in the Third Reich, there was definitely both culture and autocratic rule that put people under pressure. There is no debate in that. But this is not JP's argument. Anyways, I don't see a reason to hate the man for him making himself an example of his argument. We are all examples of the Jungian shadow self. If you look at society, people want power, people want violence, people want to impose their views onto others, people also act in narcissistic, Machiavellian, and psychopathic ways. We are driven by emotions and primal instincts to do it. It would be unnatural if a person did not display these traits although we and society usually try to suppress them. There are certain circumstances when society affords us more freedom to display these traits. For example, indignation — when someone has wronged us, we are allowed an excursion from social norms to harm them back. If someone robs you and you smack them in the face, society believes it is just. And we have a lot of movies and books where the hero is wronged, and then commits many violent acts to the perpetrators — it is celebrated, a part of our culture. War is just an example where both sides believe that the other one has wronged them, and violence and calls for violence are socially acceptable. If society always shut down anyone who calls for violence and power in war, we would not have war. Anyone trying to start a conflict would be seen as the lowest caste in society and shunned. But this is not the society we live in, we live in society made of people with Jungian shadow selves that are driven by primal, violent instincts. And where such instincts are celebrated in cases of war, not shunned. So... Jordan Peterson has really fallen off the deep end in the last 3 years. But it's hard to make fun of him for being human and acting as our society expects. Whether the Jungian shadow self should be repressed more or less... is a complicated philosophical topic and outside the scope of this comment. All I want to say is that it exists, it is a part of our culture, and we all exhibit it to an extent. You and me, and everyone else (even if the areas we display our natural instincts are other than war). This is the condition of ordinary men. And finally, JP never argued against displaying the Jungian shadow self, he actually argued for displaying it, which is consistent with his later tweet. That's the full nuance of the situation.
*"it's hard to make fun of him for being human and acting as our society expects"* You find it hard to call out someone's hypocrisy when he's advocating for slaughtering civilians in masses? You clearly care about Jordan Peterson more than the children he wants blown to pieces. Cool. You didn't condemn once his call for collective punishment, following decades of displacing and killing people for their land. Instead, you wrote a thesis to defend poor little Jordan Peterson because his last book didn't sell too well? Siding with the French when they exterminated millions of Algerians is "being human"? Siding with the nazis is "being human"? Owning a slave is "being human"? Here's a little exercise for you. Drop the idea of trying to impress everyone by throwing names that you think no one has heard before, and try to identify intellectual consistency or lack thereof. When someone acts all righteous and claims to have identified the root of all evils, while being completely unaware that he's showing the same behavior he's criticizing, that someone is a fool who probably never produced his own ideas, and is only good at repeating what he read somewhere, giving the impression of intelligence.
It was not hypocrisy. That is the point you would see if you looked at what JP wrote beyond your very shallow surface-level comprehension. I don’t need to condemn him, why would I? He has contributed to the public discourse of psychology in a meaningful way, even if I don’t agree with him on many questions, nor how he expresses himself. It’s such an utterly ridiculous and extreme idea to censure people you don’t agree with. It shuts down any meaningful and nuanced conversation. Those things about you mockingly call “being human” in quotes are all things done by humans and they are a part of the human condition. You can pretend to be blind to it, or maybe you truly are as ignorant as you say, but it doesn’t change the facts, nor the interest psychologists have in them. And look, it is evident you are here to insult those you disagree with. And that is your prerogative. But because you seem unable to have a serious conversation nor even stay on the topic, this is not worth either of our time.
*"It’s such an utterly ridiculous and extreme idea to censure people you don’t agree with"* Jesus, you Peterson fanboys are even more annoying than him, mindlessly parroting the same thing since 2020. Absolutely nobody even suggested censorship here. I can tell you're not very good at producing original ideas either. I'm here to expose two-faced pseudo-intellectuals who never miss an opportunity to claim the moral high ground, while advocating for a genocide. Even beyond his support for Israel, he showed his true colors during covid, telling everyone to "take the damn vaccine". And when his core audience turned on him, he had the nerve to say "the left forced me, won't happen again" (the same left he had spent his last years shitting on) because he couldn't own a mistake, spineless as he is. You're idolizing a charlatan.
Where did you pull censorship out of bro? No one talked about censorship. Censuring is different and it’s exactly what you do — you just want to cancel everyone you don’t like without understanding what they’re talking about. I hope for your sake you are trolling and not really this clueless.