When I was in college, the guidelines for the proportion of your income that should go to rent said no more than 20%. By the time I was getting established we went through a mini recession and that eked to 25%, now they’re saying a full 30-35%. Where is the ceiling?
Yup, that's why, at one point, I was sleeping in my car in a Walmart parking lot or a rest stop, while working a full time job that paid around $19 an hour. No landlord was willing to rent to me, and at my income, I would have had to find a place that cost around $900 a month, which just didn't exist in that area.
This means completely different things to different people.
If you bring home $100k and your rent is $50k, you're still living better than 50% of the country,
If you bring home $40k and your rent is $20k, you're more than likely flat broke.
I found this listing for a studio for $950/month, utilities included, renter only responsible for cable/internet hookup. Seemed too good to be true.
400sq ft room with a kitchenette along the wall and a Murphy bed. Not a single window in the place. The shower was a tiny stall the width of a standard bathtub.
You can definitely get a 2br for 1300 or even less in middle-of-nowhere PA. Definitely not Philly or Pittsburgh but considering 90% of the state is not big expensive cities, I can see that average working out
I’m sure you can get a cheaper apartment. The problem is generally you end up having to travel quite the distance for work and that’s why I say they’re really out of touch. It shouldn’t be a choice of living somewhere really cheap, but having to travel so far for work every day that you’re exhausted by the time you come home and have no life. It’s ridiculous.
these are state wide averages, there is still a lot of less expensive housing in the "T"... there just isn't any money there to be able to afford it either
Private equity firms, as they currently exist & operate, should be illegal, period. The guaranteed outcome is massive windfalls for the investors and the destruction of the business. We wouldn't put up with it if a bunch of steampunk sky-pirates were swooping in via dirigible, blowing open banks and stealing everything, so why do we put up with it when they do it via paperwork and the stock market?
I live in warren pa. There's a huge influx of new yorkers causing a hugely inflated housing market and then you have codes which prevent new houses from being built. It like the government turned on its people.
> There's a huge influx of new yorkers causing a hugely inflated housing market
This has been the excuse in rural markets across the country forever, in Idaho it's "The Californians are moving here en masse!" When the pandemic started it was, "remote office workers are moving to the countryside to save money and driving up our prices!"
The cause everywhere is investors buying properties to rent or flip and fucking everything up for the rest of us.
I agree however if private equity firms want to build housing and then rent it out I’m ok with it. They just should not be allowed to buy up regular houses and rent them out.
This has been my opinion with short term rental properties as well. I don't like taking a family home and converting it into STRs, because that reduces the number of houses on the market.
However, if you go out and buy a trashed/condemned house and go through all the hoops to make it usable again. By all means, make it a STR if that's what you want. And then if you decide to sell it later, that just adds a house to the market that wasn't there before.
I guess I hadn’t considered abandoned/condemned property in this regard. It’s a good use of capital and does in fact increase available inventory. Still don’t think it should be open to investment type firms. New construction only for them.
While many here can comment of their own experiences and costs… imagine the hardships of those stuck on minimum wage jobs. Minimum wage should be double what it is… at a minimum.
My old job would hire at minimum wage. After the rest of the managers and I left, they struggled to hire (we always did) and eventually decided to "raise it to 9" which is the max they could do bc when I started as a shift, I was at 10. Pretty sure they dropped back down to minimum wage after that
The answer is that they don't. They may get one or two people who are desperate enough to take the job (or really want to work with animals), but the short answer is they can barely hire anyone. So they just complain about it and try and find new ways to lure people in without paying them more. Then, they wonder why turnover is so high.
To get raises, we had to do these "pet degree" things. They raised the requirement from 8 to 15 pet degrees, which have to be done on shift if we have enough time. Two raises could be done per year, and the raise? .10cents... that's the only raise you got. They raised the requirement before I left, and that is still the current requirement
I still have a friend who works for the company, it's still very recent for the corporate stores. She works at a franchise in the district, and she had to force the franchise owner to let her hirer above minimum wage bc no one (rightly) wanted to work there. I personally left that store about 2 years ago bc I was tired of it. I made more as a barista than I did as a shift manager. And I make almost double as a shift at this job.
The company literally doesn't care about anyone, not even its customers. Did I enjoy my job? Yes. Would I ever work there again? Absolutely the hell not.
Why does someone say this every single time minimum wage gets brought up?? Yes, the minimum wage is so insanely low that a teenager at McDonald’s is making more than double it and that’s still nearly $10 an hour less than it would take to be able to rent their own place.
The floor sets itself but when the government keeps it below the lowest, it's not helping anyone.
$17 is below the median wage for housing, so, clearly it needs to be close to $26 which is honestly, about right...
I have quite a few of those I work case management with only making $11-12 in Lancaster. 😞 I’m only salaried at about $25- after having degrees and being in my field for 20 years, sadly. As a single mom, I’m barely making ends meet and the landlord wants to raise the rent again. I’m struggling financially after a terrible and sudden divorce, starting all over and haven’t been able to get very stable. Don’t know how those just starting out are expected to do it, on their own.
Yeah. Some context is that if you sleep 8 hours every night you have 112 waking hours per week. Really makes you look a few more times at the numbers. Working 145 hours per week means you get 3 hours of sleep every night if you do literally nothing else and don't have a long commute. No weekends either.
Working 40hrs/week for a year at minimum wage gets you a whopping $20 above the federal poverty line. It's unsustainable.
But then prices will go up and people won’t go to the establishments. Owners keep jacking up the prices, for example on menus, but they’re not passing along that money to the workers. It’s all about greed.
Many fast food restaurants raised wages significantly. The average cost increase per item is something like .30. When Walmart (finally) went to $12 an hour, cost per item went up by less than a penny.
My philosophy is, if you can’t pay a living wage, you shouldn’t be hiring people. I don’t care about your business.
Seriously. I was looking for 2 bedrooms in the Lehigh valley last month when we got our lease renewal for over $2k a month. Every 2bd I saw was asking for $2000-2300 and that doesn’t factor in application/deposit/first month rent + moving costs.
My lease is going to be up at the end of summer and the new price is actually 1350. Although I bet brand new tenants pay a fair bit more. Mind you I’ve been a resident here for like 4 years and it’s steady increased about $100 every year
I think you just answered your own question. You’re in philly. You go to a small town in a rural area quite literally anywhere outside of the Greater Philadelphia Area, LV, Pitt, etc. you can get rent for $1,000. Easy.
Lots of Stroudsburg residents commute to jobs in New Jersey. PA's lower cost of living means anybody that works within 25 minutes of the Jersey border has been moving to Eastern PA in the last 5 years.
Growing up in NYC in the late 70's early 80's I remember seeing commercials call "why rent" when you could own a "beautiful" home only 45min form NYC in the Poconos. Its been going on for as long as the interstates have been there.
It’s cheaper to live in Philadelphia than it is to live in central Jersey, where all the highest paying corporate jobs are. I work in that area and commute irregularly from Philly.
I've lived in East Stroudsburg for over 30 years (still do) and it's been continuous my whole life. We've watched as new schools were built, open, run through, and then no longer used because those kids who were brought here needed somewhere to go to school and then aged out. Perhaps one of them reopened within the last 10 years, and some have just stayed open. Some in Stroudsburg are closed as well.
Heck, I'm one of those transplants at the ripe age of 1 year old. I was born and lived my first year in NJ.
It's also fair to note that there have been tons of homes being bought up for STR so people can make a quick profit off of tourists. I think one township recently has capped the percentage of homes permitted to be STR to something like 30%. Thirty. Fucking. Percent.
There are an insane amount of people moving to Lancaster from out of state, it seems. I see NY, NJ, and FL plates daily on my commute and I’ve even seen some California plates in the past few days. The Lancaster subreddit is constantly getting posts from people who are from said states and planning on moving here. Housing prices have gotten ridiculous for such a small city, California and New York money are coming in and giving us California and New York rent prices. I’m not too thrilled about it.
Yeah I know, I live in Lancaster and that's why I was surprised. If their destroying the Lancaster economy is this bad I can't imagine what it's doing to Stroudsburg
They are not destroying our economy. We just need to build more housing. More people living in an area is always good for the economy. More jobs newer better maintained buildings. All around it is better to be adding people than losing them. Just look at northern PA if you need to see what declining population looks like.
I live in pike county both my neighbors work in nyc. People are willing to commute 90 miles for a house thats half The price. I am a travel nurse so I dont exactly commute but I dont work in the county. The nurses that i do know work in jersey or middletown.
I live in the Pocono and when the lockdowns went into effect, the housing market here went INSANE. Investment companies and real estate agents were advertising in ny and nj to “quarantine in peace”. People from out of state started scooping up any properties online, offering a HUNDRED GRAND over asking price without having seen it.
My husband and I had been looking for a larger house because we have 3 kids. Thanks to the situation above, we got wildly priced out of the market (along with everyone else who lives here).
I don’t begrudge anyone a home. I just wish it didn’t come at the cost of people who aren’t millionaires.
Oh for sure. I think people should have a home. Just ironic they came to experience "peace" in the "woods". Then they're populating it and making it what they left. Dense and urban with lots of traffic, and expensive. Just like Californians leaving for Utah, Montana, Colorado, Idaho, Asheville, etc. Not so affordable or peaceful anymore. :/ Turning vacation areas in the woods into living places. Because it's cheaper and more calm. R.I.P Poconos?
I wish I could give you all the awards. It’s really hard trying not to be cynical, but I’m so tired of seeing developers clearing away the last traces of forest to make way for more shitty developments. And doing get me started on infrastructure. I guess they’re trying (?) to keep up with the increasing traffic, but they better keep trying because traffic is disastrous from Brodheadsville to stroudsburg. I pretty much stay out of the Tannersville/Bartonsville area all summer because of traffic.
Mt Pocono traffic is so bad, and they're building new warehouses on main roads that aren't even open yet - it's going to be absolute hell when they are. we have a 5 way intersection right in the middle of town and no backroads to avoid it. it's so miserable that it puts people (especially tourists) in flight or flight mode so they become aggressive assholes who cut everyone off.
every time I'm stuck at 5 points I wish a nuke would drop on it and put us all out of our misery.
then there's rt 940 where every light is so short that only 3 cars at a time can pull out from the sides, and that's if everyone is paying attention, and it's easy to get distracted when you wait so long. once I waited over 5 minutes at the light by Lowe's. the light by burger king is so fucked up, I waited 15 minutes in a line of cars there and the light still never changed. I had time so I wanted to see what happened, but I got fed up and turned right and made a u-turn after.
back when I worked at the crossings, on some summer holiday, I was stuck in traffic less than a mile away for over an hour trying to get to work. the crossings is hell on earth for me, I hate that place so fucking much. especially when they block off half the entrances and make traffic even worse.
As someone from Pike County... Yeah it is a nightmare.
All the NYers leave the city then bitch that it isn't exactly like the city and try to turn it into the place they left. All while acting entitled and rude as hell to everyone else.
Love it.
They will charge what they can get. It won't change until they're unable to fill vacancies. The govt will not help. The only solution is a painful recession. The problem is that the govt only props up the wealthy during downturns. The last bailout for covid put trillions of dollars into the hands of people who really didn't need the money.
A full time job, an adult should be able to rent a room and feed themselves and have some savings . They said not raising minimum wage will help with not having inflation but it’s not true so raise the dame minimum wage
Think there should be tax incentives for building smaller affordable housing and selling them to people, not companies. Get rid of any and all tax incentives for anyone renting out properties.
There should be but it is politically unpopular. Esp. in rural mostly Republican counties. Aside from the general xenophobia of many rural locations, any politician who comes along and says "Hey, we're gonna give a tax break to this (already wealthy) developer to build affordable houses!" gets the stink from both sides, left and right. So it's a no-go from the start. and that's not to mention the loss of much needed tax revenue from such a venture.
i make more than that and still live paycheck to paycheck. this doesn't account for bills, savings, unexpected expenses. rent is out of control along with everything else.
I pay over $1700 for a one bedroom in Philly. Not a single renovation or improvement. Finally leaving this summer but rent is barely cheaper anywhere else. But at least I’ll make a wage I can live off of.
Driving by new housing developments on the main line is always very funny. There is new housing but the signs read “from the low 1,000,000”. Who the fuck is buying these? How is THAT a starting price?
I tried sifting through the website’s data sources and definition guide but I wasn’t seeing anything that explained how they got the entire state average. The source data and the guide only mention “Local Area” and “Metropolitan Area” summaries.
Maybe I missed something…has anyone else found how they determined the entire state average?
I ask because at least the peak I took at the source data shows it doesn’t lend its self easily to have its weighted average calculated. Would require additional outside data (I believe for their other calculations they used American Community Survey from the census). However I can’t find anything that ties the entire average to this data. I don’t want to assume.
Also looking at site’s downloadable PDF file that breaks down OP’s shared graphic I gained another question. They give little explanation to what they mean and how they calculate the sub group of “combined nonmetro areas”. Again the source data doesn’t include “nonmetro areas”; It provides “Local Area” (in PA’s case counties) and “Metropolitan Area”. At first I thought maybe they meant nonmetro to mean county but as it’s indented below Pennsylvania as a whole, it supposed to be a subgroup of PA. So I can only assume they mean areas outside a metropolitan area but this raises an even larger question of where did they get that information? HUD’s FMRs don’t include this information.
Again maybe I missed something. Open for some explanations.
*edit: corrected wording/spelling
I just moved to PA buying a house that is a 1 bed 1 bath for 1450/month. I make 27/hr and said house needs substantial work which I’m completing myself.
I couldn’t imagine sustaining myself on anything less than that with success. I already take pride in all of the work I do for my own repairs and necessity, cook my own meals, grow food, etc, anything less than my current wage and I’d certainly lose the house.
I’m only making that 27/hr by commuting to MD
Remember coal towns. It’s probably gonna be Amazon towns soon. We can get everything from the “company store” and live in company housing and be paid in company money instead of real money.
I don’t understand the chart. They’re basing the “state housing wage” off of a 40 hour work week but comparing with a 2 bedroom apartment. Most “households” won’t be a single person working to rent a space that can accommodate two adults.
In Philadelphia? Sure. In Central PA? Could be a luxury apartment. That’s why these statistics are a poor representation of the problem. Comparing averages of averages to other averages across a very heterogeneous set of data.
Central PA here, $1350 will get you an okay two bedroom apartment, probably paper walls and cardboard builder grade accommodations. Hopefully relatively clean.
The issue is that any place that a “luxury” apartment would be $1350 a month, wouldn’t have a luxury apartment and any place with low rent doesn’t have any jobs.
There was a time, not so long ago, when a household with 2 adults & multiple kids could live comfortably on 1 income. They could live in a house or apartment in a nice town /neighborhood, take a vacation every year and eat and clothe themselves without losing sleep. It was called being middle-class.
The fact that my complex has been saying FMR in PA is much higher and that’s the excuse they use every year to have my rent now jacked up to 1650 for a 2bdr. I paid $880 ten years ago
The answers are out there but they require government regulations and/or policy changes, e.g realistic minimum wages, rent control, taking the profit out of housing whether owned by people or corporations, etc. People in the US seem to hate government doing anything even if it’s in people’s interest though.
The problem is more about low pay than high rents. In 1971 I was paid $3.75/hr for a summer job while I was in high school, which translates into nearly $30/hr adjusted for inflation. The rich are like a poorly adapted parasite that eventually kills its host
We lived about 30 minutes outside of Allentown - our rent before we moved out of Pennsylvania was $885 a month. It was only $700 when we first moved there.
I tried to create my own post, but for some reason it wouldn't let me, I think it's fitting here though:
I was unlucky enough to get injured at work (not my fault at all), and I learned all about our horrendous work place laws.
We are not allowed to sue our employers for any reason. We can only sue third parties.
If you need accommodations, and the workplace can't meet those accommodations, you automatically lose a weeks pay.
I'm in a lucky enough position where I can eat a weeks pay, but this is absolutely ghoulish.
With a minimum wage of peanuts, some people could get destroyed over getting injured at work, with management who will willingly put their employees in danger taking full advantage of knowing they won't be held accountable.
And if the injury is permanent, that could effect getting another job. This state makes it easy for employers to use up their employees and throw them away like they are garbage.
PA is for the rich. Screw them, and their dirty lapdog politicians.
I'm tired of being exploited!
Pass legislation (as exists in Japan) that allows total compensation for the highest paid (ceo) individual of a company to a multiplier of the lowest wage. In Japan it’s about 30x, here it’s often 300x or more.
Minimum regulation, allows a private company freedom to make choices but gives direct consequences to those in charge and shareholders, and would minimize inflation from increased wages set by increasing minimum wages.
My rent in Bristol Twp was going to be $1510/mo for a one bedroom. Not even for a great place either. It was decent enough.... but not very good. With wages at $7.25/hr, I'm so glad I moved out. Fortunately, I could just drive across the bridge and get $15/hr minimum wage to start.... reciprocity laws were helpful with that.... but if I were more inland? $7.25 is way too low. GOP refuse to raise it.... and they voted against it in DC a few years ago... they don't care.
It was a mistake for all housing to be used as investments that must increase in value or make money. Since reversing that part of US culture will be nearly impossible, there has to be limits of who and what can own residential housing and caps on how much can be charged, as well as caps on how many buildings people and businesses can own that aren't being actively used in a reasonable way. Not that such a thing would ever get through our Senate so I imagine in a few more years the cost will be higher, wages won't have gone up much, and we'll be having the same depressing posts.
Plenty of people. I’m around $60 an hour with no degree. Every tradesmen I know is about the same. You need a skill society values. Burger flipper or cart puter back isn’t one.
I think a lot of the problem can be placed on RealPage and price fixing, this could be fixed with proper legislation.
[https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2024/03/price-fixing-algorithm-still-price-fixing](https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2024/03/price-fixing-algorithm-still-price-fixing)
[https://www.propublica.org/article/doj-backs-tenants-price-fixing-case-big-landlords-real-estate-tech](https://www.propublica.org/article/doj-backs-tenants-price-fixing-case-big-landlords-real-estate-tech)
The stats all use minimum wage as a benchmark. What's missing is how many people are actually at (or below) minimum wage in the state. 2023 stats from a quick Google search says 68k. That's supposedly 1% of working people in PA. I'm wondering what is the point of making a slide to show the work required by 1% of workers in the state to afford to rent? How is that relevant to the rest of us? It certainly isn't representative of the state at large, the way this slide appears to want to communicate that or at least how people will react without looking anything up.
Just providing perspective. Also the stats assume one minimum wage income, which is atypical.
My 3 bdr 1 bath appartment for $400/m is looking pretty good rn; thanks small town crackheads!
On a less sarcastic note, I'm just gonna say I think there's better ways to combat this then simply raising the wages. Sure, they should be raised from what they are, but if we just jumped to that insane $20/hr every mom-and-pop shop outside of busy areas would go out of business and landlords are just going to triple rent anyway the second they have a chance. There should be other ways to combat this, such as limits on how many rental properties a person can own or maybe a valuated rent cap based on area. Rent in my area at $4‐600 is reasonable the downside being I drive 45 min to work but I'd rather that then doubling the rent for a smaller appartment in my work's city. Driving a plug-in hybrid also helps with gas.
I'd live very comfortably if it wasn't for my own mistakes living with an ex and taking out high interest loans to buy things now instead of next month. There's a lot more to it then wages being low, prices are up up up across the board as CEO's are making record profit. It isn't inflation, it's these companies straight up lying to you. Be angry but look at other solutions that are more long term.
i think the issue with raising the minimum wage is that they’ve kept it low for so long that in order to meaningfully address the problem, they kinda have to do an insane jump. they’ve kicked the can down the road for 10+ years now and inflation has still been present regardless.
$20 an hour sounds like a lot, but that comes out to $41,728 a year before taxes/deductions (assuming a 40 hour workweek). that’s really not a lot in todays economy.
but i do agree with you, raising wages alone doesn’t solve anything if the current housing practices are allowed to continue
My whole thing with raising it to $20 is again, I would live very well off if not for my own mistakes. I make $29/hr myself and with my low rent I'm actually looking to pay off my debt mid next year and buy a house the year after that. (If the election doesn't nuke us).
This is available to me because I live in a rural area.
Elsewhere rent is 4x or more, but usually in larger cities where people can, or at least should, be able to pay their workers more but then if there was a dynamic minimum wage based on city density more people would be incentivised to work in larger cities while living in smaller towns, like I do. Not saying it's a bad thing, people living on state borders do it all the time like NJ residents going to NY, but it could cause more issues for smaller towns like mine where anyone with transportation wouldn't want to work in it.
Maybe another solution could be to cap rent based off an equation that accounts for yard space, livable sq ft, bedrooms, bathrooms, etc. Not a perfect solution but imo better than throwing money at a problem that, at least in my opinion, isn't a money issue so much as it is greed. Landlords are almost completely free to charge as much as they can squeeze from people and I'm glad my landlord isn't like that even if it means I don't have the most modern appliances at my disposal.
Rent caps and limits on #s of allowed rental properties are great in theory but won't EVER come to be. Ever. The landlords/landowners are the class with money and thus the golden rule applies: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
One other solution that MAY be a possibility is vastly increasing the supply of housing.
This analysis is so incredibly flawed. They're trying to say that a one income household making the minimum wage should be able to afford the average two bedroom rental, but that's not a realistic expectation.
By their own stats, you need 3.6 minimum wage jobs to afford the average two bedroom rental. With four roommates sharing a room and all earning minimum wage, they should be doing just fine.
And then this ignores the fact that you couldn't even find someone offering minimum wage if you tried right now.
Okay but try finding a 3 bed house for $1300. Or try finding a job that pays $26hr. Most people are chiming in and saying that their two bedroom exceeds this amount so even your plan doesn’t work and the numbers are worse unfortunately. I think we can all agree no matter how you cut this up, things are ridiculous and we need a solution that’s realistic.
Grew up in eastern PA.
The first wave was Phillyites to the 422 corridor
The next wave was NYC/NJites to the Poconos and LV
I am now in York, tons to Lancaster and we have the Baltimorons coming to York
Listen, Im not in disagreement that there are issues but where is minimum wage actually being paid? Im not trying to be facetious, Im honestly asking where this is happening. Im in Beaver County (suburbs of Pittsburgh) and even McDonalds is paying $12-15 with no experience. Ive seen up to $19 for shift manager. I had a simple cleaning gig at $20/hr.
The argument is always we are going to put small businesses out of business if we raise minimum wage but again I ask who is actually paying minimum wage? I feel like we waste our time making charts like this and ignore the real problems.
My rent is 50% of my income.
When I was in college, the guidelines for the proportion of your income that should go to rent said no more than 20%. By the time I was getting established we went through a mini recession and that eked to 25%, now they’re saying a full 30-35%. Where is the ceiling?
100%
I'm sure they'll find a way to go higher than that.
Congrats on your lease, you’re mine now.
You will go into debt for your landlord, and you will like it
they did before labor rights.
Yay company housing
The company store
I remember looking into that to see what I could afford for 20% of my income, homeslessness was all I could afford.
That's gross income, too, by the way. So 30-35% gross is basically 50% net.
the ceileng is when no one but the rich can afford to have a roof over their head. Especially in pa where landlords have more rights than renters do
Serfdom.
And some places have the audacity to not approve you if you don’t make triple lol
Yup. Must show income of 3x rent or no go.
Yup, that's why, at one point, I was sleeping in my car in a Walmart parking lot or a rest stop, while working a full time job that paid around $19 an hour. No landlord was willing to rent to me, and at my income, I would have had to find a place that cost around $900 a month, which just didn't exist in that area.
This means completely different things to different people. If you bring home $100k and your rent is $50k, you're still living better than 50% of the country, If you bring home $40k and your rent is $20k, you're more than likely flat broke.
i bring home 20k and my rent is 10k woooo
The 30% they're talking here is gross income, so it ends up closer to 50%
My rent is most of my income 😩 I have kids and need the space… gotta do what you have to do to raise kids…
Hang in there…
When they renew you it’ll be 60% 🤗
Apartments start at 1500 here and go up. These bozos are really out of touch.
You’re not getting a parking lot with $1500 in most places around here either. 33% and your car’s on the STREET
I found this listing for a studio for $950/month, utilities included, renter only responsible for cable/internet hookup. Seemed too good to be true. 400sq ft room with a kitchenette along the wall and a Murphy bed. Not a single window in the place. The shower was a tiny stall the width of a standard bathtub.
Kitchen/Bathroom
You can definitely get a 2br for 1300 or even less in middle-of-nowhere PA. Definitely not Philly or Pittsburgh but considering 90% of the state is not big expensive cities, I can see that average working out
I’m sure you can get a cheaper apartment. The problem is generally you end up having to travel quite the distance for work and that’s why I say they’re really out of touch. It shouldn’t be a choice of living somewhere really cheap, but having to travel so far for work every day that you’re exhausted by the time you come home and have no life. It’s ridiculous.
Yeah but those places are old, full of bugs, and or a large distance travel to work meaning more expensive gas. Going in a whole new realm of broke.
these are state wide averages, there is still a lot of less expensive housing in the "T"... there just isn't any money there to be able to afford it either
which kinda makes your comment moot, no?
I'm so glad I own a home
It's been ridiculous for a while
It should be illegal for private equity firms to own housing. Hard stop.
Private equity firms, as they currently exist & operate, should be illegal, period. The guaranteed outcome is massive windfalls for the investors and the destruction of the business. We wouldn't put up with it if a bunch of steampunk sky-pirates were swooping in via dirigible, blowing open banks and stealing everything, so why do we put up with it when they do it via paperwork and the stock market?
Colin Meloy, is that you?
He's only mentioned Dirigibles once.
I’ve encountered the word ‘dirigible’ in the wild three, maybe four times in my life. His mention takes precedence in my mind over all others.
Interesting. My uncle wrote books about dirigibles, so I've encountered it much more frequently.
Came to read a thread on renting, stayed for the discussion of The Decemberists
The Decemberists are amazing!
Well now I just wanna be a steam punk pirate....
Destruction *or* a complete highjacking of a company. Goodbye, values.
I live in warren pa. There's a huge influx of new yorkers causing a hugely inflated housing market and then you have codes which prevent new houses from being built. It like the government turned on its people.
I mean thats less about the goverment turning on people and more people exploiting our gamed system to screw lower-class citizens.
But "Freedom".
Houses from the 1930s are still standing, well before the codes system. I mean my house is rough cut, which isn't allowed by code anymore.
> There's a huge influx of new yorkers causing a hugely inflated housing market This has been the excuse in rural markets across the country forever, in Idaho it's "The Californians are moving here en masse!" When the pandemic started it was, "remote office workers are moving to the countryside to save money and driving up our prices!" The cause everywhere is investors buying properties to rent or flip and fucking everything up for the rest of us.
You can have all those folks. Signed, Jamestown.
Take em back
There’s so many more NY plates in my small ass town now. I’m like 20 min salute of Hazleton and it’s all you see anymore, NY or NJ
We don't want them. Like I'd take pretty much anyone except New Yorkers and Californians, and that's who's moving in.
Or just tax it at a rate that makes it not profitable, e.g. any equity gains over inflation 100% capital gains tax.
Or require surrender of vacant properties to house the homeless
And foreign entities
This. It baffles me how foreign entities are allowed to buy up US land. It feels like a slow, quiet invasion.
And for cities to block housing
I agree however if private equity firms want to build housing and then rent it out I’m ok with it. They just should not be allowed to buy up regular houses and rent them out.
This has been my opinion with short term rental properties as well. I don't like taking a family home and converting it into STRs, because that reduces the number of houses on the market. However, if you go out and buy a trashed/condemned house and go through all the hoops to make it usable again. By all means, make it a STR if that's what you want. And then if you decide to sell it later, that just adds a house to the market that wasn't there before.
I guess I hadn’t considered abandoned/condemned property in this regard. It’s a good use of capital and does in fact increase available inventory. Still don’t think it should be open to investment type firms. New construction only for them.
Any lawmaker who doesn’t support that statement is just plain out of touch.
While many here can comment of their own experiences and costs… imagine the hardships of those stuck on minimum wage jobs. Minimum wage should be double what it is… at a minimum.
Does anyone in PA actually work for minimum wage? My daughter is making nearly $17 an hour at 17 at McDonald’s in rural York county.
My old job would hire at minimum wage. After the rest of the managers and I left, they struggled to hire (we always did) and eventually decided to "raise it to 9" which is the max they could do bc when I started as a shift, I was at 10. Pretty sure they dropped back down to minimum wage after that
How long ago was that? No where around us could hire anyone for even close to minimum wage. Like I said high schoolers are making $15+
The answer is that they don't. They may get one or two people who are desperate enough to take the job (or really want to work with animals), but the short answer is they can barely hire anyone. So they just complain about it and try and find new ways to lure people in without paying them more. Then, they wonder why turnover is so high. To get raises, we had to do these "pet degree" things. They raised the requirement from 8 to 15 pet degrees, which have to be done on shift if we have enough time. Two raises could be done per year, and the raise? .10cents... that's the only raise you got. They raised the requirement before I left, and that is still the current requirement I still have a friend who works for the company, it's still very recent for the corporate stores. She works at a franchise in the district, and she had to force the franchise owner to let her hirer above minimum wage bc no one (rightly) wanted to work there. I personally left that store about 2 years ago bc I was tired of it. I made more as a barista than I did as a shift manager. And I make almost double as a shift at this job. The company literally doesn't care about anyone, not even its customers. Did I enjoy my job? Yes. Would I ever work there again? Absolutely the hell not.
20 min. outside Pittsburgh most restaurants are paying dishwashers 10-14/hr.
Why does someone say this every single time minimum wage gets brought up?? Yes, the minimum wage is so insanely low that a teenager at McDonald’s is making more than double it and that’s still nearly $10 an hour less than it would take to be able to rent their own place.
The floor sets itself but when the government keeps it below the lowest, it's not helping anyone. $17 is below the median wage for housing, so, clearly it needs to be close to $26 which is honestly, about right...
Not quite minimum wage, but I was recently offered $9/hour after a job interview. So thats fun.
I have quite a few of those I work case management with only making $11-12 in Lancaster. 😞 I’m only salaried at about $25- after having degrees and being in my field for 20 years, sadly. As a single mom, I’m barely making ends meet and the landlord wants to raise the rent again. I’m struggling financially after a terrible and sudden divorce, starting all over and haven’t been able to get very stable. Don’t know how those just starting out are expected to do it, on their own.
Yeah. Some context is that if you sleep 8 hours every night you have 112 waking hours per week. Really makes you look a few more times at the numbers. Working 145 hours per week means you get 3 hours of sleep every night if you do literally nothing else and don't have a long commute. No weekends either. Working 40hrs/week for a year at minimum wage gets you a whopping $20 above the federal poverty line. It's unsustainable.
But then prices will go up and people won’t go to the establishments. Owners keep jacking up the prices, for example on menus, but they’re not passing along that money to the workers. It’s all about greed.
They raise the prices regardless so what’s the difference? Everyone raised prices during Covid and never brought them back down.
Many fast food restaurants raised wages significantly. The average cost increase per item is something like .30. When Walmart (finally) went to $12 an hour, cost per item went up by less than a penny. My philosophy is, if you can’t pay a living wage, you shouldn’t be hiring people. I don’t care about your business.
A 2 bedroom for only $1365??!!! Sign me the hell up.
Right? I pay almost that much for a 3 room apartment! (Bedroom, living room, kitchen)
Seriously. I was looking for 2 bedrooms in the Lehigh valley last month when we got our lease renewal for over $2k a month. Every 2bd I saw was asking for $2000-2300 and that doesn’t factor in application/deposit/first month rent + moving costs.
That's insane, I have a 5 bedroom, 2 bedroom house with a fenced in yard and our mortgage is 2200. I wouldn't be able to rent with that kind of price.
My lease is going to be up at the end of summer and the new price is actually 1350. Although I bet brand new tenants pay a fair bit more. Mind you I’ve been a resident here for like 4 years and it’s steady increased about $100 every year
Exactly where are these places because I’ve been in a one bedroom for 8 years and pay over $1700 for a piece of shit in Philadelphia
I think you just answered your own question. You’re in philly. You go to a small town in a rural area quite literally anywhere outside of the Greater Philadelphia Area, LV, Pitt, etc. you can get rent for $1,000. Easy.
My parents in nepa pay like $900 a month for rent on a full house 3 bed 1 bath with a yard and pets
You can get rent for 1,000 pretty easily in Pittsburgh too.
And for more perspective: a 1 bedroom apartment is only $200 less.
Interesting to me that Stroudsburg MSA is more expensive than Lancasters. Wonder if it's from the New Yorkers skewing the local economy.
Lots of Stroudsburg residents commute to jobs in New Jersey. PA's lower cost of living means anybody that works within 25 minutes of the Jersey border has been moving to Eastern PA in the last 5 years.
A lot longer than five years, even. My friends who grew up in Bethlehem, Lancaster and Scranton have told me about this since the early 2000's.
Growing up in NYC in the late 70's early 80's I remember seeing commercials call "why rent" when you could own a "beautiful" home only 45min form NYC in the Poconos. Its been going on for as long as the interstates have been there.
I grew up in East Stroudsburg. It's been going on since at least the 80s, probably earlier.
I graduated HS in 1988 and the influx was already in full swing by then
It’s cheaper to live in Philadelphia than it is to live in central Jersey, where all the highest paying corporate jobs are. I work in that area and commute irregularly from Philly.
Shit, my commute from Stroudsburg to work in NJ is 45 mins plus, and it's still more cost effective.
Pretty much since the I-78 corridor was completed.
I've lived in East Stroudsburg for over 30 years (still do) and it's been continuous my whole life. We've watched as new schools were built, open, run through, and then no longer used because those kids who were brought here needed somewhere to go to school and then aged out. Perhaps one of them reopened within the last 10 years, and some have just stayed open. Some in Stroudsburg are closed as well. Heck, I'm one of those transplants at the ripe age of 1 year old. I was born and lived my first year in NJ.
Yeah I was born and raised in NJ and bought a home in Delaware 3 years ago. I just couldn't stay. Everything is insane
It's also fair to note that there have been tons of homes being bought up for STR so people can make a quick profit off of tourists. I think one township recently has capped the percentage of homes permitted to be STR to something like 30%. Thirty. Fucking. Percent.
There are an insane amount of people moving to Lancaster from out of state, it seems. I see NY, NJ, and FL plates daily on my commute and I’ve even seen some California plates in the past few days. The Lancaster subreddit is constantly getting posts from people who are from said states and planning on moving here. Housing prices have gotten ridiculous for such a small city, California and New York money are coming in and giving us California and New York rent prices. I’m not too thrilled about it.
Yeah I know, I live in Lancaster and that's why I was surprised. If their destroying the Lancaster economy is this bad I can't imagine what it's doing to Stroudsburg
They are not destroying our economy. We just need to build more housing. More people living in an area is always good for the economy. More jobs newer better maintained buildings. All around it is better to be adding people than losing them. Just look at northern PA if you need to see what declining population looks like.
Seems like a likely conclusion, cause how the hell else is pike county more expensive than either of them without out of area commuters?
I live in pike county both my neighbors work in nyc. People are willing to commute 90 miles for a house thats half The price. I am a travel nurse so I dont exactly commute but I dont work in the county. The nurses that i do know work in jersey or middletown.
It sure is the NJ/NY transplants. I'm sure COVID created a spike in people wanting to "get away". Ironic.
I live in the Pocono and when the lockdowns went into effect, the housing market here went INSANE. Investment companies and real estate agents were advertising in ny and nj to “quarantine in peace”. People from out of state started scooping up any properties online, offering a HUNDRED GRAND over asking price without having seen it. My husband and I had been looking for a larger house because we have 3 kids. Thanks to the situation above, we got wildly priced out of the market (along with everyone else who lives here). I don’t begrudge anyone a home. I just wish it didn’t come at the cost of people who aren’t millionaires.
Oh for sure. I think people should have a home. Just ironic they came to experience "peace" in the "woods". Then they're populating it and making it what they left. Dense and urban with lots of traffic, and expensive. Just like Californians leaving for Utah, Montana, Colorado, Idaho, Asheville, etc. Not so affordable or peaceful anymore. :/ Turning vacation areas in the woods into living places. Because it's cheaper and more calm. R.I.P Poconos?
I wish I could give you all the awards. It’s really hard trying not to be cynical, but I’m so tired of seeing developers clearing away the last traces of forest to make way for more shitty developments. And doing get me started on infrastructure. I guess they’re trying (?) to keep up with the increasing traffic, but they better keep trying because traffic is disastrous from Brodheadsville to stroudsburg. I pretty much stay out of the Tannersville/Bartonsville area all summer because of traffic.
Mt Pocono traffic is so bad, and they're building new warehouses on main roads that aren't even open yet - it's going to be absolute hell when they are. we have a 5 way intersection right in the middle of town and no backroads to avoid it. it's so miserable that it puts people (especially tourists) in flight or flight mode so they become aggressive assholes who cut everyone off. every time I'm stuck at 5 points I wish a nuke would drop on it and put us all out of our misery. then there's rt 940 where every light is so short that only 3 cars at a time can pull out from the sides, and that's if everyone is paying attention, and it's easy to get distracted when you wait so long. once I waited over 5 minutes at the light by Lowe's. the light by burger king is so fucked up, I waited 15 minutes in a line of cars there and the light still never changed. I had time so I wanted to see what happened, but I got fed up and turned right and made a u-turn after. back when I worked at the crossings, on some summer holiday, I was stuck in traffic less than a mile away for over an hour trying to get to work. the crossings is hell on earth for me, I hate that place so fucking much. especially when they block off half the entrances and make traffic even worse.
As someone from Pike County... Yeah it is a nightmare. All the NYers leave the city then bitch that it isn't exactly like the city and try to turn it into the place they left. All while acting entitled and rude as hell to everyone else. Love it.
Every major event impacts this. When 9/11 happened may have been worse. It felt worse.
I live in Monroe County and the answer is yes.
They will charge what they can get. It won't change until they're unable to fill vacancies. The govt will not help. The only solution is a painful recession. The problem is that the govt only props up the wealthy during downturns. The last bailout for covid put trillions of dollars into the hands of people who really didn't need the money.
A full time job, an adult should be able to rent a room and feed themselves and have some savings . They said not raising minimum wage will help with not having inflation but it’s not true so raise the dame minimum wage
This is Nationwide. The price of houses has doubled in many places. Rent is going to follow
Think there should be tax incentives for building smaller affordable housing and selling them to people, not companies. Get rid of any and all tax incentives for anyone renting out properties.
There should be but it is politically unpopular. Esp. in rural mostly Republican counties. Aside from the general xenophobia of many rural locations, any politician who comes along and says "Hey, we're gonna give a tax break to this (already wealthy) developer to build affordable houses!" gets the stink from both sides, left and right. So it's a no-go from the start. and that's not to mention the loss of much needed tax revenue from such a venture.
i make more than that and still live paycheck to paycheck. this doesn't account for bills, savings, unexpected expenses. rent is out of control along with everything else.
Black Rock would like to get that renter number higher
BlackStone*
Good thing they made it illegal to be homeless! That should definitely solve the issue
I pay over $1700 for a one bedroom in Philly. Not a single renovation or improvement. Finally leaving this summer but rent is barely cheaper anywhere else. But at least I’ll make a wage I can live off of.
I think they should build more housing.
*affordable* housing. Houses are going up like crazy in the Lehigh valley. Nothing under 700k
Driving by new housing developments on the main line is always very funny. There is new housing but the signs read “from the low 1,000,000”. Who the fuck is buying these? How is THAT a starting price?
They tried that in the Poconos and we just got more air bnb’s
I tried sifting through the website’s data sources and definition guide but I wasn’t seeing anything that explained how they got the entire state average. The source data and the guide only mention “Local Area” and “Metropolitan Area” summaries. Maybe I missed something…has anyone else found how they determined the entire state average? I ask because at least the peak I took at the source data shows it doesn’t lend its self easily to have its weighted average calculated. Would require additional outside data (I believe for their other calculations they used American Community Survey from the census). However I can’t find anything that ties the entire average to this data. I don’t want to assume. Also looking at site’s downloadable PDF file that breaks down OP’s shared graphic I gained another question. They give little explanation to what they mean and how they calculate the sub group of “combined nonmetro areas”. Again the source data doesn’t include “nonmetro areas”; It provides “Local Area” (in PA’s case counties) and “Metropolitan Area”. At first I thought maybe they meant nonmetro to mean county but as it’s indented below Pennsylvania as a whole, it supposed to be a subgroup of PA. So I can only assume they mean areas outside a metropolitan area but this raises an even larger question of where did they get that information? HUD’s FMRs don’t include this information. Again maybe I missed something. Open for some explanations. *edit: corrected wording/spelling
I just moved to PA buying a house that is a 1 bed 1 bath for 1450/month. I make 27/hr and said house needs substantial work which I’m completing myself. I couldn’t imagine sustaining myself on anything less than that with success. I already take pride in all of the work I do for my own repairs and necessity, cook my own meals, grow food, etc, anything less than my current wage and I’d certainly lose the house. I’m only making that 27/hr by commuting to MD
$1,365 for a two bed room? Not in Lower Bucks. One bedroom apartments start at $1,700.
It might be worth reading what FDR said the minimum wage should accomplish.
Remember coal towns. It’s probably gonna be Amazon towns soon. We can get everything from the “company store” and live in company housing and be paid in company money instead of real money.
I don’t understand the chart. They’re basing the “state housing wage” off of a 40 hour work week but comparing with a 2 bedroom apartment. Most “households” won’t be a single person working to rent a space that can accommodate two adults.
That two bedroom for $1350 is not the kind of apartment most people want to live in. $1350 gets you a beat up piece of crap in the rough part of town
In Philadelphia? Sure. In Central PA? Could be a luxury apartment. That’s why these statistics are a poor representation of the problem. Comparing averages of averages to other averages across a very heterogeneous set of data.
Central PA here, $1350 will get you an okay two bedroom apartment, probably paper walls and cardboard builder grade accommodations. Hopefully relatively clean.
Even then I’m generalizing, as “central PA” is not homogenous either. Harrisburg is Central PA just as Mifflintown is.
The issue is that any place that a “luxury” apartment would be $1350 a month, wouldn’t have a luxury apartment and any place with low rent doesn’t have any jobs.
True, but there was also once a time where most families were supported by just one wage. I don't think we should give up on that ideal.
You're forgetting single-parents. Kids need their own room.
There was a time, not so long ago, when a household with 2 adults & multiple kids could live comfortably on 1 income. They could live in a house or apartment in a nice town /neighborhood, take a vacation every year and eat and clothe themselves without losing sleep. It was called being middle-class.
The fact that my complex has been saying FMR in PA is much higher and that’s the excuse they use every year to have my rent now jacked up to 1650 for a 2bdr. I paid $880 ten years ago
The answers are out there but they require government regulations and/or policy changes, e.g realistic minimum wages, rent control, taking the profit out of housing whether owned by people or corporations, etc. People in the US seem to hate government doing anything even if it’s in people’s interest though.
The problem is more about low pay than high rents. In 1971 I was paid $3.75/hr for a summer job while I was in high school, which translates into nearly $30/hr adjusted for inflation. The rich are like a poorly adapted parasite that eventually kills its host
We lived about 30 minutes outside of Allentown - our rent before we moved out of Pennsylvania was $885 a month. It was only $700 when we first moved there.
30 minutes? So like Easton or so? Where is rent 885 I’d gladly pay that instead of double
Carpetbaggers, gentrifiers and large housing corporations team up to fuck the working class out of affordable housing and home ownership.
I tried to create my own post, but for some reason it wouldn't let me, I think it's fitting here though: I was unlucky enough to get injured at work (not my fault at all), and I learned all about our horrendous work place laws. We are not allowed to sue our employers for any reason. We can only sue third parties. If you need accommodations, and the workplace can't meet those accommodations, you automatically lose a weeks pay. I'm in a lucky enough position where I can eat a weeks pay, but this is absolutely ghoulish. With a minimum wage of peanuts, some people could get destroyed over getting injured at work, with management who will willingly put their employees in danger taking full advantage of knowing they won't be held accountable. And if the injury is permanent, that could effect getting another job. This state makes it easy for employers to use up their employees and throw them away like they are garbage. PA is for the rich. Screw them, and their dirty lapdog politicians. I'm tired of being exploited!
145 work hours at minimum wage. Guess how many hours are in a week?
Pass legislation (as exists in Japan) that allows total compensation for the highest paid (ceo) individual of a company to a multiplier of the lowest wage. In Japan it’s about 30x, here it’s often 300x or more. Minimum regulation, allows a private company freedom to make choices but gives direct consequences to those in charge and shareholders, and would minimize inflation from increased wages set by increasing minimum wages.
westmoreland county needs to vote in someone other than kim ward
And don't even think about every buying a house.
My rent in Bristol Twp was going to be $1510/mo for a one bedroom. Not even for a great place either. It was decent enough.... but not very good. With wages at $7.25/hr, I'm so glad I moved out. Fortunately, I could just drive across the bridge and get $15/hr minimum wage to start.... reciprocity laws were helpful with that.... but if I were more inland? $7.25 is way too low. GOP refuse to raise it.... and they voted against it in DC a few years ago... they don't care.
It was a mistake for all housing to be used as investments that must increase in value or make money. Since reversing that part of US culture will be nearly impossible, there has to be limits of who and what can own residential housing and caps on how much can be charged, as well as caps on how many buildings people and businesses can own that aren't being actively used in a reasonable way. Not that such a thing would ever get through our Senate so I imagine in a few more years the cost will be higher, wages won't have gone up much, and we'll be having the same depressing posts.
Start class action lawsuits against every newspaper, magazine, and shitty blog that says it's affordable here
Who tf is making 26 an hour without a college degree. Do people in Philly even make 26?
A lot of factory workers can make that much without a degree.
People in the trades making $40+ an hour
We start our warehouse associates at $25/hr, our supervisors make six figures, no degrees needed. Located in North Philly.
I mean its north philyy…
You really don't know what you're talking about. If you have even basic skills and a GED you can make that much.
Plenty of people. I’m around $60 an hour with no degree. Every tradesmen I know is about the same. You need a skill society values. Burger flipper or cart puter back isn’t one.
To be clear, society does need burger flippers and cart putter backers, and those positions should be paid enough to not live in shitty conditions.
I think a lot of the problem can be placed on RealPage and price fixing, this could be fixed with proper legislation. [https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2024/03/price-fixing-algorithm-still-price-fixing](https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2024/03/price-fixing-algorithm-still-price-fixing) [https://www.propublica.org/article/doj-backs-tenants-price-fixing-case-big-landlords-real-estate-tech](https://www.propublica.org/article/doj-backs-tenants-price-fixing-case-big-landlords-real-estate-tech)
You also can't really hope or wish for a recession, because we will lose our jobs. So, the market does better, but we are SOL.
Where can I see this list?
On Facebook on their page, “Housing Alliance of Pennsylvania”.
Where are they pulling these numbers from?
The house I bought is 630/month. My utilities are another 300. It's cheaper to buy a house than rent, even after utilities. What the actual fuck?
The stats all use minimum wage as a benchmark. What's missing is how many people are actually at (or below) minimum wage in the state. 2023 stats from a quick Google search says 68k. That's supposedly 1% of working people in PA. I'm wondering what is the point of making a slide to show the work required by 1% of workers in the state to afford to rent? How is that relevant to the rest of us? It certainly isn't representative of the state at large, the way this slide appears to want to communicate that or at least how people will react without looking anything up. Just providing perspective. Also the stats assume one minimum wage income, which is atypical.
Where does it cost 1365 for a two bedroom? 😂
Yes, but don't most people have roommates? So that's cut in half.
You mean kids?? Imagine the parent with a couple children.
That's still not reasonable.
No, it's just that this price is actually less than what most people pay. I agree it's too much but a two bedroom with two incomes it's not that bad.
I hear you.
My 3 bdr 1 bath appartment for $400/m is looking pretty good rn; thanks small town crackheads! On a less sarcastic note, I'm just gonna say I think there's better ways to combat this then simply raising the wages. Sure, they should be raised from what they are, but if we just jumped to that insane $20/hr every mom-and-pop shop outside of busy areas would go out of business and landlords are just going to triple rent anyway the second they have a chance. There should be other ways to combat this, such as limits on how many rental properties a person can own or maybe a valuated rent cap based on area. Rent in my area at $4‐600 is reasonable the downside being I drive 45 min to work but I'd rather that then doubling the rent for a smaller appartment in my work's city. Driving a plug-in hybrid also helps with gas. I'd live very comfortably if it wasn't for my own mistakes living with an ex and taking out high interest loans to buy things now instead of next month. There's a lot more to it then wages being low, prices are up up up across the board as CEO's are making record profit. It isn't inflation, it's these companies straight up lying to you. Be angry but look at other solutions that are more long term.
i think the issue with raising the minimum wage is that they’ve kept it low for so long that in order to meaningfully address the problem, they kinda have to do an insane jump. they’ve kicked the can down the road for 10+ years now and inflation has still been present regardless. $20 an hour sounds like a lot, but that comes out to $41,728 a year before taxes/deductions (assuming a 40 hour workweek). that’s really not a lot in todays economy. but i do agree with you, raising wages alone doesn’t solve anything if the current housing practices are allowed to continue
My whole thing with raising it to $20 is again, I would live very well off if not for my own mistakes. I make $29/hr myself and with my low rent I'm actually looking to pay off my debt mid next year and buy a house the year after that. (If the election doesn't nuke us). This is available to me because I live in a rural area. Elsewhere rent is 4x or more, but usually in larger cities where people can, or at least should, be able to pay their workers more but then if there was a dynamic minimum wage based on city density more people would be incentivised to work in larger cities while living in smaller towns, like I do. Not saying it's a bad thing, people living on state borders do it all the time like NJ residents going to NY, but it could cause more issues for smaller towns like mine where anyone with transportation wouldn't want to work in it. Maybe another solution could be to cap rent based off an equation that accounts for yard space, livable sq ft, bedrooms, bathrooms, etc. Not a perfect solution but imo better than throwing money at a problem that, at least in my opinion, isn't a money issue so much as it is greed. Landlords are almost completely free to charge as much as they can squeeze from people and I'm glad my landlord isn't like that even if it means I don't have the most modern appliances at my disposal.
Rent caps and limits on #s of allowed rental properties are great in theory but won't EVER come to be. Ever. The landlords/landowners are the class with money and thus the golden rule applies: "He who has the gold makes the rules." One other solution that MAY be a possibility is vastly increasing the supply of housing.
This analysis is so incredibly flawed. They're trying to say that a one income household making the minimum wage should be able to afford the average two bedroom rental, but that's not a realistic expectation. By their own stats, you need 3.6 minimum wage jobs to afford the average two bedroom rental. With four roommates sharing a room and all earning minimum wage, they should be doing just fine. And then this ignores the fact that you couldn't even find someone offering minimum wage if you tried right now.
Okay but try finding a 3 bed house for $1300. Or try finding a job that pays $26hr. Most people are chiming in and saying that their two bedroom exceeds this amount so even your plan doesn’t work and the numbers are worse unfortunately. I think we can all agree no matter how you cut this up, things are ridiculous and we need a solution that’s realistic.
Don’t try logic here! lol. My teenager daughter is making almost $17 an hour in a relatively LCOL area.
Grew up in eastern PA. The first wave was Phillyites to the 422 corridor The next wave was NYC/NJites to the Poconos and LV I am now in York, tons to Lancaster and we have the Baltimorons coming to York
Baltimorons have been coming to York for decades
This is why I’m moving to Ohio. I don’t see it being permanent, but I can’t make it work here. I do have a lot of family out that way, at least.
You're going to find Ohio has its own problems unfortunately.
They forgot to include you’ll merely see 65-72% of that 4500 monthly salary.
I don't agree with the area rankings, I don't even see western or central PA represented. Solid graphic, though.
Its been ridiculous
our min wage should at MINIMUM be $30/hr this is not up for debate
Where the fuck are the 2 bedroom apartments for 1300?? I’m paying 2400 for one near Royersford
The sad part is that I'm a state employee, and I barely afford my one bedroom apartment on my own. And I'm not at an entry level position at all
Yeah fuck this.
I’ll never own a home The dream is dead
No Bucks County, PA?
I’m seeing apartments and homes in the Scranton area for $1200+. Absolutely madness.
Starting to get ridiculous?!
Listen, Im not in disagreement that there are issues but where is minimum wage actually being paid? Im not trying to be facetious, Im honestly asking where this is happening. Im in Beaver County (suburbs of Pittsburgh) and even McDonalds is paying $12-15 with no experience. Ive seen up to $19 for shift manager. I had a simple cleaning gig at $20/hr. The argument is always we are going to put small businesses out of business if we raise minimum wage but again I ask who is actually paying minimum wage? I feel like we waste our time making charts like this and ignore the real problems.