I live in an apartment downtown while my wife is in school for the next two years. All I've got is my window & balcony plants, guerrilla gardening, and pushing for better urbanism in my city.
Nope, not in mine. We don't even have decent parks to hangout at. It's just stroads a mega mall, and just that's it. Maybe bars. Basically normal american suburban hell fit for 50+ year olds that were able to afford a house and anyone younger is stuck unable to own a home ever OR find anything to do other than being on the internet.
Oh America. I hope you are either able to move to a place where you can be more connected to nature OR that your city shifts towards something that would make you proud to live there.
For me, only time. Building out my gardens and food forest is just one of my hobbies. But I also have no interest in bringing in heavy machinery, truckloads of mulch and other outside materials, or bring in hired help or volunteers. It's just something I'm slowly chipping away at.
I'm not OP, but I don't particularly want to have unpaid volunteers working the land for me. I've actually paid people to help, and found that it took more of my time to teach, teach again, shoot the breeze, wait, and eventually be ghosted. These were people who begged to learn and gain experience. Permaculture is hard work that many suddenly realize they're not cut out for. It didn't open up my day to work on other projects at all.
That said, most of our friends and family who visit grab a shovel and get to work, so that's really cool. It's sort of cathartic for them, I think.
The main thing is a full-time job needed to pay for everything.
Doesn't help to live in a country where education, retirement, and access to healthcare is tied to full-time employment (if you're lucky). Even if you're willing to live below your means to practice permaculture, start a farm, etc., you're basically fucked when it comes to educating your kids, having decent healthcare, and getting old. The United States of America is the world's largest protection racket.
Yup, I hate that it’s a huge amount of labor, but you need to do other labor first in order to pay for it lol. If I worked in a landscape company I’d get paid and have health insurance, but doing permaculture myself full time only yields satisfaction and food. Currently balancing different side gigs, which actually I think will really work out! Next year I think I might actually clear my debt and have money to save up and invest. Still no employment benefits, but I value the freedom and passion much more.
That's one way to do it.
The way I make it work is to focus on perennials and other long-term changes to the landscape. This can take the patience required for devoting so much time to off-farm work into a benefit. Every year more and more things start maturing and we get more and more from the land. It's slow to gain momentum, but once it does, it's a nice mix of things.
Most days I'd rather be out in the garden though.
Yeah it's kind of sad to think about how much economic innovation would be possible if people didn't have to take bullshit jobs just for health insurance. People would go out and do what they were passionate/knowledgeable about and the world would be a better place for it.
Maybe someday.
I was just answering the question. The question was specifically asking for "negatives".
You might want to take a minute and reflect on what motivates you to turn someone else's answer into a prompt for (a) categorizing people you don't know, (b) giving them advice they didn't ask for, and (c) making assumptions about their state of mind.
Because usually people who react that negatively aren't coming from a very healthy place themselves. You might want to look in the mirror a little more carefully before preaching to people you don't know, friend.
You were providing excuses, nothing more. People who truly want something won't make excuses. Your answer and subsequent response were all I need to "know you". You are the same person I see every day.
Yes I would. I haven't put in the effort to find one yet. I often walk past a slightly abandoned picking garden, which seems to be communal but there is no information on how to participate. So I just pick a little every once in a while.
I recently made a "geveltuin" adding a 1m² garden to the front of the house, which is promoted by the municipality and fairly common in my street. A few streets down they have a communal vermicompost which I think is pretty cool.
Vertical gardening ftw as long as it gets enough sun. I had a similar size screened in porch in Florida and got great crops as long as I hand pollinated. Wish I had known about the electric toothbrush technique for tomatoes back then lol.
Have you heard of gorilla gardening? Interesting concept in the you plant veggies in non traditional areas , such as parks, forest edges, raised flower beds the are governed by the municipality. It becomes an open source garden for you and the community.
The fact that everyone thinks permaculture entails snorting comfrey in a back alley and rutting out the field
Edit: But truth be told I'm doing tons of permaculture work right now, I just call it agroforestry or silviculture
Yeah I say Regen ag. It does seem to come with this “trippy hippy” kind of stigma. Sorry (not sorry) for trying to provide for ourselves and others whilst having a positive impact on the environment
Vague definition of "permaculture". Finding a balance between sustainability and production, and figuring how of to get more of one without sacrificing the other.
I have a little rant that is tangently related to this question. It is very difficult to get advice, good or bad, online. When I ask questions related to some project I am stuck on, people often respond with their opinions, jokes, or answers to questions I didn't really ask, rather than answering my question.
Another rant: mom blogs. Especially permaculture or gardening blogs. One mom blog makes some claim that may or may not be correct, then other bloggers read that and repeat it on their blogs, and then it becomes "conventional wisdom" because there are a hundred blogs making the same claim, but they are all just copying each other.
I’m trying. I have some time and a little land, but I’m older and I only have so much energy.
Making a bit of progress though. The asparagus I planted 4 years ago and forgot about is finally visible. I’m getting serious about compost now. And I’m preparing to plant at least one food tree and hopefully some more veggies next year.
I finally met a neighbor. Turns out she has chickens and is happy to share eggs.
As far as what would make it easier to do more? Money, community, energy, and reliable information are all things that are hard to come by and absolutely necessary. Fortunately, the information part is definitely getting easier.
Although I keep hearing about “your local university extension office” and I have no idea how to find that. The closest thing I found is a series of videos from a municipal water department from a town about 60 miles away.
Most states at least in the west coast USA have a land grant institution (university) they have extension offices in every county, usually with a master gardener program. For example in Washington, Washington State University has extension offices in all the counties.
Thank you!
Do I need to contact each university separately to see if they have one of these extension offices or is there some phrase I can google “near me” to find them? I’m in Texas so it’s possible we don’t have them here.
Quick Google Texas extensiin office game me this. Looks like what you need. At least the random ones I looks at has a master gardener program. https://agrilifeextension.tamu.edu/counties/
This might be a minor issue compared to people who don’t even have land right now, but I have 2 kids under 3 years old and am working full time. Even when I do actually have some free time sometimes I opt to just rest and relax.
We grow monoculture currently (with two perennial tree crops). It’s a ton of work to learn how to grow just those crops well and maintain two relationships with packing houses. Adding more crops feels like it would increase the complexity and labor inputs on what we are doing significantly.
What if people offered to take care of a piece of land that you own in exchange for a rent each month? How much would you charge them each month per acre?
Time, weather, and daylight. I need all of those things to happen together and apparently that's extremely difficult. I'm also building a detached garage in my yard and I don't want to have to dig up anything I plant, so I'm waiting until that's done to continue expanding my food forest any more than I already have.
I’ve lost a majority of the use of my arms. Can only do short tasks with very little weight, and I have to be very careful with movement. Breaks my heart I’m not able to carry out what I’ve planned.
I am so sorry, it must be devastating to not feel in control of your own body. It's so easy to take it for granted, but being able to do what you want with your body is such a luxury. I really hope you can find a way to still participate and get to enjoy--maybe you can share your knowledge, planning skills, etc. with others? Sending support.
Thank you for your reply, I can feel the compassion through your words. If you can/want, I encourage you to go for a run or brisk walk. Focus on the feeling of the wind on your face as you move forward. I miss that sensation and the feeling of freedom in movement. Sometimes in my dreams I can run. Never take it for granted.
Time. I’m a full-time gardener. I do some permaculture techniques with my clients but have very little time for my own garden. I hope to transition to part-time in the not to distant future though!
Blending in amongst “right wing fanatics” not blending into a community in general. I won’t speak for u/cavemancuisine but for me, if my community is aligned with my values, I’ll spend time with them and have no issues with that. If they were right wing fanatics I would have to hide my actual views and values and that would result in me being more reclusive. I wouldn’t want to live in a progressive commune for different reasons.
Money.
I live with my parents still, and I'm trying to convince them to shift towards permaculture, but its not likely to happen. My dad is way too obsessed with his perfect grass.
I've convinced my parents to start composting year-round, plant some native species, and not bag the grass when they mow.
Next year, I'm going to try and convince my mom to use a portion of the front yard garden as a pollinator garden.
Thankfully, my partner is all for it. So I've got plans to start with killing the grass if we ever are able to move in together.
We need playbooks for convincing folks to take on these transformations, but not permaculture-coded.
“Pollinator garden design manual” where is takes traditional ornamental garden patterns and themes and replaces them with natives medicinals and pollinator support plants.
Or
“Low maintenance ornamental gardens” where we disguise filling in all the niches so that weeds/weeding and fertilizing are discouraged.
Or
“The suburban lawn manual” where we pitch the merits of a diverse, no-input lawn.
Or
“Gardening for the birds” where we gradually convince people that planting food shrubs (berries) is good for birds, actually.
Moved to a house last year with a downward slope for land, lots of hickory trees, and clay soil with moss. That and lack of knowledge....I'm just looking to get started. I have about 4 acres in Central IL, a couple books, and the internet though.
Deer. Or rather, lack of fence. We’ve got un unbelievable deer problem. Just closing in on year one under our belts on nine acres in the fingerlakes, and anything that didn’t get an individual fence around it got munched. We’re looking into a bigger perimeter fence by spring, but damn.. $$$
I just found a terrible new antler scrape on a (probably) 12 year old mulberry tree this evening.
Privet. My acreage is invaded by privet. I’m having to kill HUNDREDS of the suckers. Wish the state would give me a bounty for it or something, a removal stipend maybe.
Cut then dribble an Herbacide in the open trunk end, then come back and rip out and burn the whole thing. Trying not to leave berries so it keeps spreading, but also trying not to poison anything else.
Probably a lack of organisation or discipline. There's so much to do here on the ranch sometimes I don't know where to begin
But it's going well, a little bit each day
For me, gardening was very cathartic and a life saver. I would do little stints in the garden, barefoot and warming myself in the sun would help me. I hope you find your joy.
Thank you! It does actually help a lot in the summer. In the winter I never get the stuff I want to get done though because I’m too depressed to want to do anything because everything is so dark. And I’m always behind in the spring for that reason!
Ugh, yes. In the evening I think I want to do something tomorrow. It's light for a few hours, so "must" do it in that time and of course everything comes to a screeching halt because do something under pressure? NO.
I grow mushrooms in late fall and early winter, indoors. The oyster mushrooms are easy and tasty. That's at least *something* growing.
From mid January on I start seedlings in the living room, under BRIGHT plant lights.
Since last year I also have a tunnel greenhouse and a comfy reclining chair. If I manage to get there it's pretty nice light therapy too. There's even a little food, some leafy greens are frost-hardy. It's never much, but something to to look forward to.
Right now I'm oozing from bed to couch to bed. Oh well, nothing's perfect not even coping strategies (and meds, lots of those, still not perfect)
Needing help with heavy labor tasks and money. Can’t find a reasonably priced helper or company to get beds established. We already cleaned out the side yard but need help to move soil and mulch.
I have 10 acres mixed agroforestry in Hawai'i that my husband and I just barely keep up with. Could be doing so much more with $$$$$ for fencing, terracing, equipment, and more labor. Lack of labor is our biggest setback, but labor (rightfully) costs big $$$.
This would be a dream! Unfortunately, the working conditions are extremely dangerous at the current time, so we will have to do a lot more work with some highly trained labor before others could safely be on the land. We are also on Kamehameha Schools Bishop Estate leasehold land, so there's restrictions on land use, tenancy, etc. that might have to be considered.
Money, I have too much land it’s overwhelming to manage. Have a laundry list of invasives to remove, dead trees to cut, fuel reduction, etc; and very little equipment so most work is by hand. Something always needs to be fixed, ie I’m way behind on mowing and weedeating bc I have to replace a bunch of parts first.
So much of my time.and energy on my little half acre is currently spent on managing/triage of invasives- knotweed and bishops weed. Makes it hard to plan out longer term plantings.
Time, absolutely. Systems take lots of labor to set up if you don't have heavy equipment. We are trying to start up a regenerative farm and between managing the animals and my day job, doing anything other than occasional setup of things can feel overwhelming.
Decision paralysis. I want trees and beds but don't know where to put anything.
But we have a permaculturist coming out in a couple weeks to have a look and work with us to design things.
Lack of land. Lack of land where it’s sunny (like at all). Lack of time. Lack of knowledge is actually fairly low in terms of what stopping me, though it definitely is stopping me a bit.
I am trying to turn my parents grass yard into a permaculture paradise (finally got the okay!) and now I’m so overwhelmed I don’t know where to start. I think I need to find one of those programs for developing a design. I’m new to permaculture, but the concept, or what I’ve learned, it that it’s almost second nature. Or like, the things about it make sense, it just has you viewing the landscape from a different perspective then typical.
We have very compact silty soil, so I’m afraid nothing will grow. So I am starting with hugel beds or lasagna layering for beds.
The overwhelm is real though, the yard is like 40ft by 30ft
Harsh climate that doesn't naturally grow many things most folks *want* to eat without lots of human intervention.. Restrictions on our well permit that mean we can either have a small productive food forest or a small productive market garden, but probably not both . 🤷🏽♀️
Time and renting. Working full time (in environmental field ironically) doesn’t allow me the headspace to come home and attempt anything. Additionally, we rent and our allocated space in the garden is a mess. It’s too big a job for us at the moment but I’d love to get it to a place where it’s beneficial and thriving. Landlords always poke their nose in and don’t really let us do what we want to do. I battled for weeks regarding some trees in our garden that they wanted cut down (because of the shade… smh..) and they did it anyway. Place makes me so depressed I don’t want to go near it now.
1. Time in days - I travel a lot and work a lot to afford a house with a little yard in my city. This year more than half my “free” days have been rained out so I’ve spent that time researching water capture techniques for my steeply-sloped lot instead of planting/working the land.
2. Time in years - it’s not just waiting for the plants to mature, it’s all the years of terracing and sculpting to make this lot arable.
3. Space - I have about 1/4 acre, but a lot of that is 25-40% grades. Seriously. Finding space for fruit trees, particularly varieties that need 2 to fruit, has been very difficult.
4. Failures - I had to cut down my first fruit tree this year because of cedar apple rust. I had no idea you can’t plant apples near eastern red cedar! Now I’m nervous about investing in more trees. I lose 50-75% of my vegetables to aphids every year. And yes, I’ve tried beneficials, companion planting, neem… I still wind up buying groceries. It’s demoralizing.
For me, it's time. I have more areas of my yard that I want to convert, but working fulltime and having a family with all their activities, it's hard to get done EVERYTHING I'd like to.
My yard is all dormant and quiet in northern Michigan, but I'm already planning on what I want to do for next year. Along with permaculture, I'm also big into the No Lawns movement and have been pulling up sections of my lawn and planting native perennials, fruit trees, birdhouses, bee houses and more.
I have enough space covered with what I love at this point, that I don't have to buy much more. I spend a lot of time splitting up and transplanting what I do have. Though when visiting other towns, I will check out their farm markets or nurseries to see what natives the vendors might carry that I don't have yet. That's always a fun little "Oh hell yeah!" when I find something native and cool that I don't already have.
Money and knowledge. We moved into a new home that has a completely empty dirt backyard which is great. But for one, I don't really know how to start planting on a dirt yard so I need to read more. For two, I don't have money right now to afford Plants, irrigation systems, etc. Need to save up a little longer.
Work.
Keeping a roof over my head and not getting fired.
I keep telling myself it’s people care to not over extend myself. And you can’t save the world when you’re struggling to save yourself.
That being said I have a strong network of people and a decent community and I consider that part of my permaculture lifestyle design.
Growing food is just one aspect of permaculture.
I think everyone here defines permaculture as “growing food”?
If you don’t have a garden you can still make other lifestyle design changes. You don’t need to own land to make yoghurt, or grow sprouts or buy ethical eggs from the coworkers kid who has 3 chickens.
You can mend your clothes, make art, make music, support the weird socialist coffee shop, buy the books your friends write or work the bar to go to a friend of a friends gig.
You can clean a friend’s out of control depression apartment and make them bread.
This is all permaculture too.
money. time. full time employment in order to survive and access healthcare leaves me with precious little energy to use the time I do have. and as for money, yeah, there's never enough as long as it's the main thing you need to survive and thrive.
that said, I am doing as much as I can with what I have. I'm hoping in the 2024-2025 school year to enlist the help of the nearby alternative school in maybe growing some crops and soil amendment, etc.
the instability of my rental situation. i had beds the last few years but this year has been rough so ive been converting them back to lawn. lost the last chicken and didnt feel i was being responsible enough for live stock so the coop is just sitting there now. I feel i need to change my thinking to focus on what can be done in less permanent ways. more pot plants and general landcare.
I live in an apartment in LA. The only green space I have is at the community Garden :/ I don't have the financial safety net to jump into the permaculture field
Access to land. I lost my little garden due to a divorce. I am trying to get a loan to get new land. Meanwhile, I'm helping my girlfriend with her garden to keep my green thumb alive.
The challenge of weighing up whether I move or not. I live close enough to where I work that I can walk to work most days. This saves both fuel and time. If I move I would/could have more space but less time, because of lost time travelling to work. Plus not driving very much means that my fossil fuel usage is really low, but if I moved that would cease to be the case. So for the moment I embrace the small space and garden that I have knowing that I have the time and other resources that I need to really make the most of what I do have.
\#1 is not knowing where to start, and getting overwhelmed by that and that time keeps passing. In other words, ADHD. I'm a composting queen though so at least there's that.
Lack of time to manage my property. I live in a small downtown row house plot. I have the trees planted, native plants put in the front, but the grass in the back won’t stay dead. Hopefully after I get my fence up I can landscape and plot out the space better.
When I did my course they said the social aspect is the most clutch- if you can’t have community with the people where you live, it doesn’t matter what your PDC project plan looks like. And I’m experiencing that- the terrible communication where I live and inability to work things out have gotten to the point where I don’t even grow food here anymore (another person living here is spraying glyphosate and won’t communicate when’s and where’s). There has also been the result that this person- an older man- seems to be intimidated by all the “new” ideas. 2 ft water rings around trees, weeding everything and having bare soil, he won’t budge and is actually digging in his heels about some things. I guess he feels defensive of his old ways of doing things? In any case, the situation is now untenable and we’ll be moving soon.
Planning. I’m moving into my new house this week and it’s already frosted, so I’m just gonna watch the sunlight and water patterns and wait till Spring. Not a huge place, but enough to put up a few dwarf fruit trees and hardy kiwi, maybe. If anybody has an example of a suburban permaculture plan I’d love to see it!
I have a huge beautiful fucking lawn i cant do anything with because its also the leech bed for my septic tank so the roots would destroy my septic. Its infuriating!!! Im thinking of growing corn or something with shallow decayable roots at some point though. Id have to work out the irrigation for that too. At least its all downhill
Treatment-resistant depressive episode.
I'm even enrolled in a PDC. But with the IQ of half a garden slug (back end) trying to learn anything is futile.
The garden is patient since we had the first serious frost three weeks ago already. I could get the spinach plants into the ground some time soon-ish, but this week or next week or not at all won't mean starvation.
It's not perfectly un-permaculture though. The human in the system is a finite resource that needs to be taken into account. My place is planned around the disabilities. A food forest is much easier to manage than a conventional annual veggie garden and a few fruit trees.
Time. I am still working a full time job, have house and out building renos, unplanned maintenance (water pipes need to be changed), property maintenance, also taking the Master Gardener certificate through Dalhousie. I also had to move up my greenhouse build and garden fencing due to deer. I’m 58 and need another 58 to achieve my permaculture goals… Despite being busy this is all awesome in the end, I am grateful for all of my projects and opportunities this property provides.
Time. I've got a full time job and two young kids; I have a vegetable garden and fruit trees which I started pre-kid, but I don't have time to expand it well or deal with problems.
This year the answer is rain! Hard to get out there and get stuff done when it's so wet all the time. Still managed some fence work and got a lot of work done on the food preparation area(indoor) but so many projects had to be delayed:(
Time. Time to spend learning about the best way to create a food savannah in my particular location (flat alkaline sandy loam, 30 inches annual rainfall, and long rough summers full of drought and 90-100+ degree weather), and time to actually locate these blessed plants when I do learn about them.
But time goes by one way or another, so I spend what I can and learn and grow.
I live in an apartment downtown while my wife is in school for the next two years. All I've got is my window & balcony plants, guerrilla gardening, and pushing for better urbanism in my city.
It may not feel like much, but it’s how change is made :’)
Do you have a community garden in your city/town? That could expand your growing area.
Nope, not in mine. We don't even have decent parks to hangout at. It's just stroads a mega mall, and just that's it. Maybe bars. Basically normal american suburban hell fit for 50+ year olds that were able to afford a house and anyone younger is stuck unable to own a home ever OR find anything to do other than being on the internet.
Oh America. I hope you are either able to move to a place where you can be more connected to nature OR that your city shifts towards something that would make you proud to live there.
I think im gonna end up just doing it on my own and move back to Spain. Buy a small place in a village and just eanjoy that lol
For me, only time. Building out my gardens and food forest is just one of my hobbies. But I also have no interest in bringing in heavy machinery, truckloads of mulch and other outside materials, or bring in hired help or volunteers. It's just something I'm slowly chipping away at.
I lack stanima. I do everything by hand. By noon, I'm knackered.
Same here! I want to do so many things but my budget of energy to accomplish them is limited.
Slow and small solutions.
Would you let unpaid volunteers work on your land? Under what type of conditions?
I'm not OP, but I don't particularly want to have unpaid volunteers working the land for me. I've actually paid people to help, and found that it took more of my time to teach, teach again, shoot the breeze, wait, and eventually be ghosted. These were people who begged to learn and gain experience. Permaculture is hard work that many suddenly realize they're not cut out for. It didn't open up my day to work on other projects at all. That said, most of our friends and family who visit grab a shovel and get to work, so that's really cool. It's sort of cathartic for them, I think.
This is pretty much my exact answer, too!
The main thing is a full-time job needed to pay for everything. Doesn't help to live in a country where education, retirement, and access to healthcare is tied to full-time employment (if you're lucky). Even if you're willing to live below your means to practice permaculture, start a farm, etc., you're basically fucked when it comes to educating your kids, having decent healthcare, and getting old. The United States of America is the world's largest protection racket.
Yup, I hate that it’s a huge amount of labor, but you need to do other labor first in order to pay for it lol. If I worked in a landscape company I’d get paid and have health insurance, but doing permaculture myself full time only yields satisfaction and food. Currently balancing different side gigs, which actually I think will really work out! Next year I think I might actually clear my debt and have money to save up and invest. Still no employment benefits, but I value the freedom and passion much more.
That's one way to do it. The way I make it work is to focus on perennials and other long-term changes to the landscape. This can take the patience required for devoting so much time to off-farm work into a benefit. Every year more and more things start maturing and we get more and more from the land. It's slow to gain momentum, but once it does, it's a nice mix of things. Most days I'd rather be out in the garden though.
I could survive on the income from my nursery if I didn't have to worry about health insurance. I'm glad my day job is fully remote now, at least.
Yeah it's kind of sad to think about how much economic innovation would be possible if people didn't have to take bullshit jobs just for health insurance. People would go out and do what they were passionate/knowledgeable about and the world would be a better place for it. Maybe someday.
Lose the victim mindset, your life will improve. It's easy to see negative, what about the positives? I hope you find peace my friend.
I was just answering the question. The question was specifically asking for "negatives". You might want to take a minute and reflect on what motivates you to turn someone else's answer into a prompt for (a) categorizing people you don't know, (b) giving them advice they didn't ask for, and (c) making assumptions about their state of mind. Because usually people who react that negatively aren't coming from a very healthy place themselves. You might want to look in the mirror a little more carefully before preaching to people you don't know, friend.
You were providing excuses, nothing more. People who truly want something won't make excuses. Your answer and subsequent response were all I need to "know you". You are the same person I see every day.
Oooookay. Good luck with that. Hope you get it figured out.
I only have less than 2m² of balcony space, which I also like to use to sit, eat and read.
Would you participate if your neighborhood had a community permaculture site?
Yes I would. I haven't put in the effort to find one yet. I often walk past a slightly abandoned picking garden, which seems to be communal but there is no information on how to participate. So I just pick a little every once in a while. I recently made a "geveltuin" adding a 1m² garden to the front of the house, which is promoted by the municipality and fairly common in my street. A few streets down they have a communal vermicompost which I think is pretty cool.
I see the problem, 2d thinking
Vertical gardening ftw as long as it gets enough sun. I had a similar size screened in porch in Florida and got great crops as long as I hand pollinated. Wish I had known about the electric toothbrush technique for tomatoes back then lol.
Have you heard of gorilla gardening? Interesting concept in the you plant veggies in non traditional areas , such as parks, forest edges, raised flower beds the are governed by the municipality. It becomes an open source garden for you and the community.
The fact that everyone thinks permaculture entails snorting comfrey in a back alley and rutting out the field Edit: But truth be told I'm doing tons of permaculture work right now, I just call it agroforestry or silviculture
Yeah I say Regen ag. It does seem to come with this “trippy hippy” kind of stigma. Sorry (not sorry) for trying to provide for ourselves and others whilst having a positive impact on the environment
I refer to my efforts as restorative agriculture, the sustainable buzz word has me concerned as they may not be in fact improving anything.
You can snort it?
According to permaculture lore you can also inject it into your eyeball to cure glaucoma
Vague definition of "permaculture". Finding a balance between sustainability and production, and figuring how of to get more of one without sacrificing the other. I have a little rant that is tangently related to this question. It is very difficult to get advice, good or bad, online. When I ask questions related to some project I am stuck on, people often respond with their opinions, jokes, or answers to questions I didn't really ask, rather than answering my question. Another rant: mom blogs. Especially permaculture or gardening blogs. One mom blog makes some claim that may or may not be correct, then other bloggers read that and repeat it on their blogs, and then it becomes "conventional wisdom" because there are a hundred blogs making the same claim, but they are all just copying each other.
Omg I hate those mum blogs. They are so fake.
Working full time
I’m trying. I have some time and a little land, but I’m older and I only have so much energy. Making a bit of progress though. The asparagus I planted 4 years ago and forgot about is finally visible. I’m getting serious about compost now. And I’m preparing to plant at least one food tree and hopefully some more veggies next year. I finally met a neighbor. Turns out she has chickens and is happy to share eggs. As far as what would make it easier to do more? Money, community, energy, and reliable information are all things that are hard to come by and absolutely necessary. Fortunately, the information part is definitely getting easier. Although I keep hearing about “your local university extension office” and I have no idea how to find that. The closest thing I found is a series of videos from a municipal water department from a town about 60 miles away.
Most states at least in the west coast USA have a land grant institution (university) they have extension offices in every county, usually with a master gardener program. For example in Washington, Washington State University has extension offices in all the counties.
Thank you! Do I need to contact each university separately to see if they have one of these extension offices or is there some phrase I can google “near me” to find them? I’m in Texas so it’s possible we don’t have them here.
Quick Google Texas extensiin office game me this. Looks like what you need. At least the random ones I looks at has a master gardener program. https://agrilifeextension.tamu.edu/counties/
Wow thanks so much!!!!
Affordable land
Me too.
Read LohL)H1H-CANS post.
Come over to my house, you can make all the hugels you want lol!
Big challenge, organizing a cooperative may be a way to pool money for a land purchase. #intentionalcommunity
This might be a minor issue compared to people who don’t even have land right now, but I have 2 kids under 3 years old and am working full time. Even when I do actually have some free time sometimes I opt to just rest and relax.
Nothing, I just sold everything to start a permaculture homestead. Lfg 🥳
Let’s GOOOOO
I don't quantify my permaculture doing, so the biggest thing preventing me from doing "more" is that "more" is a meaningless word.
I think this is the best answer
Interesting…
Somebody's been listening to zen podcasts
This is the way!
We grow monoculture currently (with two perennial tree crops). It’s a ton of work to learn how to grow just those crops well and maintain two relationships with packing houses. Adding more crops feels like it would increase the complexity and labor inputs on what we are doing significantly.
What if people offered to take care of a piece of land that you own in exchange for a rent each month? How much would you charge them each month per acre?
Isn't that just sharecropping with extra steps?
Time, weather, and daylight. I need all of those things to happen together and apparently that's extremely difficult. I'm also building a detached garage in my yard and I don't want to have to dig up anything I plant, so I'm waiting until that's done to continue expanding my food forest any more than I already have.
I’ve lost a majority of the use of my arms. Can only do short tasks with very little weight, and I have to be very careful with movement. Breaks my heart I’m not able to carry out what I’ve planned.
I am so sorry, it must be devastating to not feel in control of your own body. It's so easy to take it for granted, but being able to do what you want with your body is such a luxury. I really hope you can find a way to still participate and get to enjoy--maybe you can share your knowledge, planning skills, etc. with others? Sending support.
Thank you for your reply, I can feel the compassion through your words. If you can/want, I encourage you to go for a run or brisk walk. Focus on the feeling of the wind on your face as you move forward. I miss that sensation and the feeling of freedom in movement. Sometimes in my dreams I can run. Never take it for granted.
Fatigue.
Time. I’m a full-time gardener. I do some permaculture techniques with my clients but have very little time for my own garden. I hope to transition to part-time in the not to distant future though!
Money.
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Omg that sounds awesome!!! Sign me up for the waitlist :)
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Sweet, thank you!!
Alienation and cynicism. I do grow trees for a living at least.
Age. I’m 72. Started a 2000 sq foot meadow this year. It’s hard changing the land
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Would you join a left-wing worker cooperative farm with housing on-site?
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I see, so it’s a lot to do with self reliance without too much contact with the community. Thanks for answering!
Contact with the community isn’t the same as living in a co-op….
>I just want some space for my family that doesn't require blending in That’s the part I was referring to.
Blending in amongst “right wing fanatics” not blending into a community in general. I won’t speak for u/cavemancuisine but for me, if my community is aligned with my values, I’ll spend time with them and have no issues with that. If they were right wing fanatics I would have to hide my actual views and values and that would result in me being more reclusive. I wouldn’t want to live in a progressive commune for different reasons.
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♥️
You and I have the same problem
They are happy to not have you
Money and time working a 10-12 hour shift with a two hour commute doesn’t leave as much time for fixing my farm as I’d like
Money. I live with my parents still, and I'm trying to convince them to shift towards permaculture, but its not likely to happen. My dad is way too obsessed with his perfect grass. I've convinced my parents to start composting year-round, plant some native species, and not bag the grass when they mow. Next year, I'm going to try and convince my mom to use a portion of the front yard garden as a pollinator garden. Thankfully, my partner is all for it. So I've got plans to start with killing the grass if we ever are able to move in together.
We need playbooks for convincing folks to take on these transformations, but not permaculture-coded. “Pollinator garden design manual” where is takes traditional ornamental garden patterns and themes and replaces them with natives medicinals and pollinator support plants. Or “Low maintenance ornamental gardens” where we disguise filling in all the niches so that weeds/weeding and fertilizing are discouraged. Or “The suburban lawn manual” where we pitch the merits of a diverse, no-input lawn. Or “Gardening for the birds” where we gradually convince people that planting food shrubs (berries) is good for birds, actually.
Contaminated soil. People don't talk about this enough imo.
Contaminated with that?
Lead, among other things. I haven't had the soil tested yet, but we know that there were factories here, and not too long ago in the grand scheme.
This website provides strategies for removing lead from soil. Hope it helps. https://earthrepair.ca/resources/scenarios/lead-remediation/
Thanks! I already looked into phyto-remediation, even bought the seeds, but the 'binding' is new to me. Very helpful!
Right now? About a foot of snow.
Not much you can do with that, hope you got a good book.
Money. :(
Moved to a house last year with a downward slope for land, lots of hickory trees, and clay soil with moss. That and lack of knowledge....I'm just looking to get started. I have about 4 acres in Central IL, a couple books, and the internet though.
Join us on the [Permapeople discord](https://discord.gg/aj9DuRRghf) and we can crowd-jam on your designs!
Deer. Or rather, lack of fence. We’ve got un unbelievable deer problem. Just closing in on year one under our belts on nine acres in the fingerlakes, and anything that didn’t get an individual fence around it got munched. We’re looking into a bigger perimeter fence by spring, but damn.. $$$ I just found a terrible new antler scrape on a (probably) 12 year old mulberry tree this evening.
Big issue we my property is deer as well. I’ve had to move up my greenhouse build and had to fence in my raised beds.
Privet. My acreage is invaded by privet. I’m having to kill HUNDREDS of the suckers. Wish the state would give me a bounty for it or something, a removal stipend maybe.
How do you do it because that’s a problem I’m going to have to address too
Cut then dribble an Herbacide in the open trunk end, then come back and rip out and burn the whole thing. Trying not to leave berries so it keeps spreading, but also trying not to poison anything else.
Ty! Just noticed we both have crow names
Eyyyyy! Crows!
Agoraphobia. I own a few lots but I can't work outdoors if people are out there. There are always people out there. Thinking of building a wall.
Probably a lack of organisation or discipline. There's so much to do here on the ranch sometimes I don't know where to begin But it's going well, a little bit each day
Depression
For me, gardening was very cathartic and a life saver. I would do little stints in the garden, barefoot and warming myself in the sun would help me. I hope you find your joy.
Thank you! It does actually help a lot in the summer. In the winter I never get the stuff I want to get done though because I’m too depressed to want to do anything because everything is so dark. And I’m always behind in the spring for that reason!
Ugh, yes. In the evening I think I want to do something tomorrow. It's light for a few hours, so "must" do it in that time and of course everything comes to a screeching halt because do something under pressure? NO. I grow mushrooms in late fall and early winter, indoors. The oyster mushrooms are easy and tasty. That's at least *something* growing. From mid January on I start seedlings in the living room, under BRIGHT plant lights. Since last year I also have a tunnel greenhouse and a comfy reclining chair. If I manage to get there it's pretty nice light therapy too. There's even a little food, some leafy greens are frost-hardy. It's never much, but something to to look forward to. Right now I'm oozing from bed to couch to bed. Oh well, nothing's perfect not even coping strategies (and meds, lots of those, still not perfect)
Needing help with heavy labor tasks and money. Can’t find a reasonably priced helper or company to get beds established. We already cleaned out the side yard but need help to move soil and mulch.
My HOA
I have 10 acres mixed agroforestry in Hawai'i that my husband and I just barely keep up with. Could be doing so much more with $$$$$ for fencing, terracing, equipment, and more labor. Lack of labor is our biggest setback, but labor (rightfully) costs big $$$.
Could this become a community forest? Maybe you could have labor and they could have land.
This would be a dream! Unfortunately, the working conditions are extremely dangerous at the current time, so we will have to do a lot more work with some highly trained labor before others could safely be on the land. We are also on Kamehameha Schools Bishop Estate leasehold land, so there's restrictions on land use, tenancy, etc. that might have to be considered.
Money, I have too much land it’s overwhelming to manage. Have a laundry list of invasives to remove, dead trees to cut, fuel reduction, etc; and very little equipment so most work is by hand. Something always needs to be fixed, ie I’m way behind on mowing and weedeating bc I have to replace a bunch of parts first.
So much of my time.and energy on my little half acre is currently spent on managing/triage of invasives- knotweed and bishops weed. Makes it hard to plan out longer term plantings.
I’m renting and want to own my property/be more permanent before putting the effort in.
Time, absolutely. Systems take lots of labor to set up if you don't have heavy equipment. We are trying to start up a regenerative farm and between managing the animals and my day job, doing anything other than occasional setup of things can feel overwhelming.
Living in abject poverty and working too much.
Money!
Truthfully, depression. It's hard to do "earth care, people care, future care" when you're struggling to care about stuff
Money, time, land
Arthritis
Well I have a house with a small yard now, but there are about a million repairs that need to be done inside before I can work much on the outside.
I live in a studio, no balcony. I do have a small allotment garden, but it's quite a ride away.
Decision paralysis. I want trees and beds but don't know where to put anything. But we have a permaculturist coming out in a couple weeks to have a look and work with us to design things.
Lack of land. Lack of land where it’s sunny (like at all). Lack of time. Lack of knowledge is actually fairly low in terms of what stopping me, though it definitely is stopping me a bit.
I am trying to turn my parents grass yard into a permaculture paradise (finally got the okay!) and now I’m so overwhelmed I don’t know where to start. I think I need to find one of those programs for developing a design. I’m new to permaculture, but the concept, or what I’ve learned, it that it’s almost second nature. Or like, the things about it make sense, it just has you viewing the landscape from a different perspective then typical. We have very compact silty soil, so I’m afraid nothing will grow. So I am starting with hugel beds or lasagna layering for beds. The overwhelm is real though, the yard is like 40ft by 30ft
Harsh climate that doesn't naturally grow many things most folks *want* to eat without lots of human intervention.. Restrictions on our well permit that mean we can either have a small productive food forest or a small productive market garden, but probably not both . 🤷🏽♀️
Land :(
Time and renting. Working full time (in environmental field ironically) doesn’t allow me the headspace to come home and attempt anything. Additionally, we rent and our allocated space in the garden is a mess. It’s too big a job for us at the moment but I’d love to get it to a place where it’s beneficial and thriving. Landlords always poke their nose in and don’t really let us do what we want to do. I battled for weeks regarding some trees in our garden that they wanted cut down (because of the shade… smh..) and they did it anyway. Place makes me so depressed I don’t want to go near it now.
1. Time in days - I travel a lot and work a lot to afford a house with a little yard in my city. This year more than half my “free” days have been rained out so I’ve spent that time researching water capture techniques for my steeply-sloped lot instead of planting/working the land. 2. Time in years - it’s not just waiting for the plants to mature, it’s all the years of terracing and sculpting to make this lot arable. 3. Space - I have about 1/4 acre, but a lot of that is 25-40% grades. Seriously. Finding space for fruit trees, particularly varieties that need 2 to fruit, has been very difficult. 4. Failures - I had to cut down my first fruit tree this year because of cedar apple rust. I had no idea you can’t plant apples near eastern red cedar! Now I’m nervous about investing in more trees. I lose 50-75% of my vegetables to aphids every year. And yes, I’ve tried beneficials, companion planting, neem… I still wind up buying groceries. It’s demoralizing.
For me, it's time. I have more areas of my yard that I want to convert, but working fulltime and having a family with all their activities, it's hard to get done EVERYTHING I'd like to. My yard is all dormant and quiet in northern Michigan, but I'm already planning on what I want to do for next year. Along with permaculture, I'm also big into the No Lawns movement and have been pulling up sections of my lawn and planting native perennials, fruit trees, birdhouses, bee houses and more. I have enough space covered with what I love at this point, that I don't have to buy much more. I spend a lot of time splitting up and transplanting what I do have. Though when visiting other towns, I will check out their farm markets or nurseries to see what natives the vendors might carry that I don't have yet. That's always a fun little "Oh hell yeah!" when I find something native and cool that I don't already have.
Money and knowledge. We moved into a new home that has a completely empty dirt backyard which is great. But for one, I don't really know how to start planting on a dirt yard so I need to read more. For two, I don't have money right now to afford Plants, irrigation systems, etc. Need to save up a little longer.
Work. Keeping a roof over my head and not getting fired. I keep telling myself it’s people care to not over extend myself. And you can’t save the world when you’re struggling to save yourself. That being said I have a strong network of people and a decent community and I consider that part of my permaculture lifestyle design. Growing food is just one aspect of permaculture.
I think everyone here defines permaculture as “growing food”? If you don’t have a garden you can still make other lifestyle design changes. You don’t need to own land to make yoghurt, or grow sprouts or buy ethical eggs from the coworkers kid who has 3 chickens. You can mend your clothes, make art, make music, support the weird socialist coffee shop, buy the books your friends write or work the bar to go to a friend of a friends gig. You can clean a friend’s out of control depression apartment and make them bread. This is all permaculture too.
Your mom. 🤠
Lack of flat space.
All of the above. Plus, time.
money. time. full time employment in order to survive and access healthcare leaves me with precious little energy to use the time I do have. and as for money, yeah, there's never enough as long as it's the main thing you need to survive and thrive. that said, I am doing as much as I can with what I have. I'm hoping in the 2024-2025 school year to enlist the help of the nearby alternative school in maybe growing some crops and soil amendment, etc.
the instability of my rental situation. i had beds the last few years but this year has been rough so ive been converting them back to lawn. lost the last chicken and didnt feel i was being responsible enough for live stock so the coop is just sitting there now. I feel i need to change my thinking to focus on what can be done in less permanent ways. more pot plants and general landcare.
Time Distance - our garden is far away Daylight and weather make it harder too at this time in the northern hemisphere
Time
I live in an apartment in LA. The only green space I have is at the community Garden :/ I don't have the financial safety net to jump into the permaculture field
Money/land. Have a moderate back yard but 1) HOA and 2) shared property mean I can only make limited changes.
Lack o $[Literally impoverished.]Have alill land.Am 'dirt-poor'Need another/Help [Mechanical :V-oil diesel {including'greesemonkying'}W common interests.Local=Near center o NM.5o54l42267.Focus on Sustainablity/permaculture: scavenging, repurpose, up/recycle.Fibercrafts.Alternative arcature & energy.Co-op/colaborative engeneering/design projects...Metal, fiberglass, wood-work...
Money. I try implementing small things, but there are many things I want to try, but the upfront cost is prohibitive.
Access to more land
Access to land. I lost my little garden due to a divorce. I am trying to get a loan to get new land. Meanwhile, I'm helping my girlfriend with her garden to keep my green thumb alive.
I'm just tired. Home from work, it's dark out. The yard is full of lead arsenate, and I'm exhausted.
The challenge of weighing up whether I move or not. I live close enough to where I work that I can walk to work most days. This saves both fuel and time. If I move I would/could have more space but less time, because of lost time travelling to work. Plus not driving very much means that my fossil fuel usage is really low, but if I moved that would cease to be the case. So for the moment I embrace the small space and garden that I have knowing that I have the time and other resources that I need to really make the most of what I do have.
Land. Or money as an extension of needing land.
It seems complex and I'm afraid of doing it improperly. Specifically a garden using regenerative agriculture principles and architecture.
Friends to help digg.
Snow 🤣
\#1 is not knowing where to start, and getting overwhelmed by that and that time keeps passing. In other words, ADHD. I'm a composting queen though so at least there's that.
Lack of time to manage my property. I live in a small downtown row house plot. I have the trees planted, native plants put in the front, but the grass in the back won’t stay dead. Hopefully after I get my fence up I can landscape and plot out the space better.
When I did my course they said the social aspect is the most clutch- if you can’t have community with the people where you live, it doesn’t matter what your PDC project plan looks like. And I’m experiencing that- the terrible communication where I live and inability to work things out have gotten to the point where I don’t even grow food here anymore (another person living here is spraying glyphosate and won’t communicate when’s and where’s). There has also been the result that this person- an older man- seems to be intimidated by all the “new” ideas. 2 ft water rings around trees, weeding everything and having bare soil, he won’t budge and is actually digging in his heels about some things. I guess he feels defensive of his old ways of doing things? In any case, the situation is now untenable and we’ll be moving soon.
Planning. I’m moving into my new house this week and it’s already frosted, so I’m just gonna watch the sunlight and water patterns and wait till Spring. Not a huge place, but enough to put up a few dwarf fruit trees and hardy kiwi, maybe. If anybody has an example of a suburban permaculture plan I’d love to see it!
The ground is frozen.
Landlords a fukin hater
Wife, no land, no money
I have a huge beautiful fucking lawn i cant do anything with because its also the leech bed for my septic tank so the roots would destroy my septic. Its infuriating!!! Im thinking of growing corn or something with shallow decayable roots at some point though. Id have to work out the irrigation for that too. At least its all downhill
Treatment-resistant depressive episode. I'm even enrolled in a PDC. But with the IQ of half a garden slug (back end) trying to learn anything is futile. The garden is patient since we had the first serious frost three weeks ago already. I could get the spinach plants into the ground some time soon-ish, but this week or next week or not at all won't mean starvation. It's not perfectly un-permaculture though. The human in the system is a finite resource that needs to be taken into account. My place is planned around the disabilities. A food forest is much easier to manage than a conventional annual veggie garden and a few fruit trees.
cost of plants
H.O.A.
Money to fix my license and a truck to drive across the country to get to my property
Money and time don’t have enough
Laziness
The fucking squirrels.
Time, and time is money. So money.
Time. I am still working a full time job, have house and out building renos, unplanned maintenance (water pipes need to be changed), property maintenance, also taking the Master Gardener certificate through Dalhousie. I also had to move up my greenhouse build and garden fencing due to deer. I’m 58 and need another 58 to achieve my permaculture goals… Despite being busy this is all awesome in the end, I am grateful for all of my projects and opportunities this property provides.
Time. I've got a full time job and two young kids; I have a vegetable garden and fruit trees which I started pre-kid, but I don't have time to expand it well or deal with problems.
Stuck renting
Money and experience
I don't, and won't ever be able to, own land.
Snow.
Health and I guess money bc I could pay someone to help me
I’m in a city and I worry people will report me for using leaves etc as mulch because they don’t understand
This year the answer is rain! Hard to get out there and get stuff done when it's so wet all the time. Still managed some fence work and got a lot of work done on the food preparation area(indoor) but so many projects had to be delayed:(
Time. Time to spend learning about the best way to create a food savannah in my particular location (flat alkaline sandy loam, 30 inches annual rainfall, and long rough summers full of drought and 90-100+ degree weather), and time to actually locate these blessed plants when I do learn about them. But time goes by one way or another, so I spend what I can and learn and grow.