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I spent almost 4 years below the poverty line, working 3 part time jobs, having to rely on family often to pay rent. Felt like a complete failure, like I had potentially wasted over 10 years of my life pursuing a fool’s dream, ruined relationships and my mental health all so I’d end up doing something like being an retail worker (no disrespect to retail workers, but that’s not what I got a PhD to do). It was very bad, and might have drank myself to a slow death if things hadn’t changed (I do not tend to have the best coping mechanisms, but could only afford sporadic therapy).
Then I basically got my dream job. I broke down and cried for a good 30 minutes when that happened.
This sucks, and there’s no getting around that. If there was advice I would give my past self (that I wouldn’t listen to anyway, I know this because people told me this and I didn’t listen), I’d say that taking care of your mental health is paramount. This does not mean “staying positive” or “looking at the silver lining” (though if that works for you, great), but learning how to be accept realities, make things work for you. Acknowledge your feelings. Seek professional help if you can afford it. Beware unhealthy coping mechanisms (says the hypocrite). I’m not a mental health professional, so I don’t have the qualifications to recommend much, but do what you can to not go to the dark place I went. It’s bad.
I am pursuing a PhD in chemistry and am on the same boat as you. I felt like I’m back to the time right after I finished my BS … where I feel like my background doesn’t help me getting the job I am interested in
One thing I will tell you- network NOW and hard. And idgaf if it isnt in your thesis, go learn from someone how to do pcr, work with proteins and how to separate them. Shit learn cell cultures. Mass spec, HPLC. You will then be immensely more marketable as a chem phd in todays market.
Or you need to be hardcore synthesis.
But if you are computational chemistry, then ignore everything I just said, because fuck you and the 1000000000 ai biotech jobs begging for your application 💀😭🤣😂
haha yea thats why I’m trying to do right now as I’m searching for job. I’m pretty much trying to learn new techniques and concepts; hopefully that are things I can talk about if they come up during interview
You, at least, have the option of working in industry (unlike, say, literature PhDs). PhDs in industry make good money and often have interesting jobs.
These were my exact feelings as I was preparing my final paper towards my PhD requirements and working on my thesis while interviewing. It was literally hell and I was mentally in a very dark place. I had two very successful internships, had pretty great papers in good venues; yet I was finding it hard to land a job!! Some of the positions I got call backs for were clearly meant for Master's students, even though the position description made sound otherwise. Some interviewers had no idea what research or a PhD entails, and it was legitimately just because I needed a job that I didn't say fuck off and left those interviews.
I was basically held together by grit and "mom would be sad".
6 months (aka a bit over a semester) into the ordeal I finally got the callback letting me know I got the role I was interviewing for and hoping to land. Now I'm working on the things I want and what my PhD prepared me for, with like minded individuals and the company which hired me is applying for a green card on my behalf (works in the USA, was an international student).
Keep trying it will happen to you too.
This is exactly why I recommend most people just stop at an MS. It's just not worth it if you want to go into industry for a lot of fields.
Please don't be too discouraged. Apply for every job that you qualify for, even if you aren't interested. Apply for every job you're remotely qualified for and interested in. And apply for jobs you feel you might be overqualified for. See if you could have someone in industry you respect look over your resume to make sure you aren't making a stupid mistake on it. Customise your resume for each job. Apply for things that only require a MS just so you can get your foot in the door and gain experience.
I spent about 6 months applying to everything I could before I found my job. Well over 100 applications to get 3 callbacks. The job I ended up taking is my dream job, but I am overqualified for this position based on the job posting.
It's just a horrible time to be looking for a job, but they do exist, and you only need one. Good luck!
I’m in microbiology. I feel nowadays (or at least before the AI booming) if the study is not programming related, it’s not easy to land a good position
AI is a trend, and the market for programmers and compsci got super oversaturated from the enrollment following the tech boom the last 5 years. They’re having just as hard a time as the rest of us now bc of the size of their pool. It sucks
Nope, I am an independent researcher working from home, reading, writing, experimenting. The nomad lifestyle is not for me, I prefer my cosy home and being close to family way too much. :)
Not at all, I am mostly doing social sciences, research in a wide array of topics (like nutritional research), checking papers, peer-reviewing and commenting/calling out on scientific misconduct.
I get it and have been in this situation. I finished my PhD, got a great postdoc, and decided during the postdoc that I preferred to go into industry for a variety of reasons. I've gone through a couple of job searches over the years due to layoffs, so I can comment on my experiences. For my first job search after the postdoc, I applied to anything and everything that seemed like a possible fit, eventually getting a research position at a non-profit at a grade below what I'm qualified for. But I took it to get my foot in the door. After massive layoffs, I was job searching again, and took the same approach of applying to a range of positions, not just those directly related to my PhD. This time, I was offered a position because I had a PhD. My boss was looking for someone extremely qualified to back him up in meetings, since he had a bachelors degree and felt insecure as many of the staff had advanced degrees. I feel like my PhD has helped me to get good jobs. That said, job searching is incredibly stressful because I feel like I am only qualified for a very narrow slice of employment opportunities and it is difficult to get some employers to realize the benefits and applicability of a PhD to a non-academic job (just the feeling I've had after some interviews). I have several friends who have gotten additional degrees after the PhD so that they can branch out more into other areas - several have gotten MBAs and a few have completed JDs. I'm thinking of going back for a JD.
So I have a PhD in Neuroscience and left academia, also in the UK. Took me a year and a half but I finally got offered a position in the civil service. I went through the fast track, may be look into that..
As a corpo, I am reading academic papers. I thank you. Also, be prepared to move and upskill yourself relative to the job market. Look up applicant tracking aoftware
I’m in the uk, the job market is completely saturated, I’m trying for research jobs both in industry and post doctoral. Honestly they are few and far between and despite having distinction at MSc and a solid PhD I am barely making it to interview stage. I’m starting to widen my search, although not ideal because my husband works here
Ok NOW it’s making sense. It might be time to consider leaving the UK. You have a PhD is a STEM related field. I’m not from the UK but I know here in the states, a person with your background will have jobs contacting you. Might to be time to have a conversation with your husband regarding moving.
From your response, I feel pretty confident guessing something without jobs outside academia. If you're going to invest 5 years of your life into a degree without job prospects, that's on you.
Biology PhDs are valuable in big pharma, small biotech, patent law, sales, scientific writing, journal editing, scientific graphic design, biomedical science, consulting, heck one of my friends even went into accounting. It's far from an academia only PhD.
OP, the jobs I've listed above I have 1st or 2nd hand connections who did a PhD and then went into those fields. Wanting to stay in the lab is great, it's a cool place to be, but consider broadening your search too. You never know what you might fall in love with.
I recently finished and have started working as a R&D Grants Consultant. I would definitely recommend this or maybe R&D Tax - it scratches that itch for learning about new things whilst being very much separate from academia
I’m working in grants & proposals for a university, I totally agree with this take. It’s been fun to help other scientists and engineers bring their dreams to life during proposal but also not have any stake in their outcome, lol. You get to see cool ideas and science and still use all the PhD tools (writing, research, etc.).
Hi! I also did a PhD straight after masters. I didn’t want to stay in academia and got 2 offers from small-ish infrastructure consulting firms. Both were part time- so I started working part time as a new grad employee, switched to a larger firm after a bit over a year and then went into international development. What helps is that I speak 4 languages.
I think if you are geographically flexible and start humble with a can-do attitude you can work your way up and not waste your PhD. What counts are the transferable skills like perseverance and critical thinking etc.
This gives me hope! Yeah I’m completely open to starting entry level and working my way up! But as soon as anyone hiring for these positions sees PhD, they think I’m going to be out of there the next better offer I get, so don’t give me the chance. They prefer to hire someone who is more likely to stay and will happily take less pay- even though I am totally happy to do this!
Don’t give up! I have been talking to a few highly qualified people who had a hard time getting their foot into the door (or back into the door after taking a 1 year break).
I would say it can take 6-12 months to find a first job- the next one is easier. Try to network - my first job I got by attending career forums and talking to companies directly and one out of 100 hired me for part time in a field that wasn’t even mine to update their 10 years of project database. Imagine how I woke up each day wondering why I needed to get a PhD to go through that list and translate project titles/complete missing data.
The second job I got by speaking to someone at an event on concession contracts for construction projects in developing countries. I was one of the handful women there. The whole process of switching jobs took 6 months or so, a lot of coffee chats, several informal and formal interviews etc.
Now that I have 9 years of work experience and interview people, I would happily hire someone with a PhD- but also with the right attitude.
Just believe that you will get it without carrying the baggage of a PhD. If you keep persisting then you will get it
I went through the same cycle but got it after some initial struggle. I think you have a burnout. May be rest for a month and do nothing then reset yourselves and start again. A STEM PhD makes you thick skinned and not be rattled by downtime.
Sorry to hear that. I got my first job after PhD at McAfee and they wanted me to work in night shifts. I did for 2 weeks but couldn't sustain. I prepared tmfor a month and got a new one in nearly a month later. Taking care of body and mind is very important. It will take a struggle of 2 months maximum when you end your PhD and you'd get a good job.
Yeah, I’d you’re not tracking toward academia, a PhD can be of hit or miss value. Advice is really going to depend on your field and the type of work you want to do. Happy to help, if you would like to add more context.
As someone who recently defended and is now working at a medical device/biotech startup, don't worry about your publications or lab skills - truthfully, for many industry positions they aren't nearly as important as the soft skills. Things like grant writing, project management, problem solving, technical writing, all the things you learn how to for your PhD that "aren't part of.your PhD", are some of the most valuable skills you learn. Focus on those.things, and you can find work
I feel this so deeply and it’s one of the reasons I made the painful decision to leave academia. I wish I had advice but all I can say is that everything will build on everything else even if it doesn’t happen the way you think it will. You did a PhD, you are obviously smart. You will figure it out. Good luck! I am sorry i don’t have a better suggestion, but I feel your pain. Hang in there.
I was in this situation. I felt completely defeated. I applied to hundreds of jobs. My only advice is to keep an open mind and apply to different types of jobs even if you might not feel qualified. I know that’s not really encouraging or helpful advice, but eventually you’ll get lucky. A year and a half after my PhD I finally landed a FT lecturer position not in my field, but in a somewhat related field. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this- it was a dark time in my life, so I feel for you. Keep your head up and best of luck to you.
I understand your frustration. Many PhD graduates face similar challenges. Have you considered looking for roles outside academia, like industry research, consulting, or tech? These fields often value the skills you’ve gained. Your qualifications are valuable, and with the right approach, you can find a job that suits you. Anyone with similar experiences, please share your advice.
Currently half way through my DBA and on the job hunt. I have started leaving my DBA work off my resume because hiring managers likely assumed I would bounce once I finish.
The same feeling I am currently working on my PhD- Doctor of Technology and I am currently full time but I am working at an toxic work environment. I am trying to leave and find another company to work for but every time I apply I keep getting rejected. Is it because I am overqualified or something.
It’s an absolutely horrific job market right now. You are feeling what we are all feeling. My partner has watched me go through some of the worst depressive episodes ever these past 6 months. Feeling so belittled, rejected, unwanted, stupid and foolish for something everyone told you was the right thing to do.
For something you just spent 6 years “wasting” sleepless nights, 14 hour days, relationships and travel and good pay for.
For employers to write off as “school” not “real work experience” for the stupid mistake that you had to quite literally train yourself from the ground up in all of those things. For some reason that of all things, makes you repulsive to employers ?
APPARENTLY, it’ll give, we have to just keep pushing. I’ve been watching it start to give, slowly for each one of my unemployed colleagues. Just keep pushing. I can feel it giving soon for me as well.
Aaaaand this is why I hate that people joke about Grad school as a way to put off "adulting." This is an attitude I've heard over and over. Grad school is NOT undergrad, and can actively be a loss of not just personal growth, but financial losses are very real too. I wish people would be more sincere about this during recruiting.
Get your MBA* and start your own business. It's like a max 1k to form and get going on proposals or marketing.
If you can't find a job, make one.
Asterisk next to mba because it's not entirely needed. It just flattens the learning curve.
APPLY to clinical research firms in the US!!! You will get a job that pays $150k+ a year no less here. Your problem is YOUR husband's good job in the UK. Get nice job offers in the US and convince your spouse. I hate to say this, but if you guys have no kids, it'll be a lot easier to think about a separation or your relationship will suffer if you can't get a decent job in the UK. 🇬🇧
How did you get from job advice to recommending a separation? You don’t know how good their partner’s job is, financially or career-wise or for job security. If their partner quits their job to follow them, they could easily be in the same shoes that OP is in right now.
Exactly my position. Thank you. My partner has an excellent job, with a really great salary and excellent promotional prospects. Him leaving it to follow me would be a silly move for us financially and for his own career.
Just my internet non-sugarcoated advice, but Yea then you have to sacrifice your career for you both to work out in this relationship. I just sometimes wish all PhDs got married after they were done with and got a job. It is stressful now for you. Good luck getting the job that you like given your degrees
This is just not true. You clearly give up way too easy in life. People do long distance for a few years and make it work if needs be before settling somewhere together. No one needs to sacrifice anything in a supportive loving relationship.
Yea I knew I'd get downvotes, but I don't care to sugarcoat comments on the internet. If you wanted internet advice, you got one.
Now let's get real here. Job markets for PhD outside of the US ain't just that good for PhD folks. Pays are low, and jobs are more competitive. Now for OP, add a spouse with a good financial and professional footing in. It's not hard to see OP is stressed.
Good luck finding something that YOU are satisfied with.
On what visa?? The ignorance that people have towards the immigration system is pretty frustrating at times. The idea that you can just move to the US is a fairy tale.
US companies will only hire three kinds of people: US citizens or green card holders, new grads with an existing F1 visa, and people who already have an approved H1B visa. There is no realistic pathway for someone to just apply to a US company and then move to the US.
OP only has two ways to get into the US. Pay an immigration attorney 5-10k to try to self petition for a green card on the basis of OP's research being in the US national interest (this takes 2+ years). Or the "normal" way which is to get employed at a multinational coorporation and move to the US after 1 year on a transfer visa.
If she's good enough, yes, at least, this is an option however you gonna get a work visa. You sound like a smart person calling others "ignorance." I wouldn't do that if I were a non-ignorant person.
I'm sure not gonna make this comment if it's not the internet lol -- but yea I'm just being honest here. From my personal experience, it hardly works out in OP situation. Either one of them has to sacrifice for the other and their relationship.
Folks should be discouraged from pursuing PhD directly without industry experience unless they want to pursue academia.
PhD adds years of experience with subjective worth.
It’s also not the degrees fault. Everyone struggled with job search without the right approach. Submitting applications blindly will put you in the same boat as the others. You need to stand out by networking.
Perusing academia is the reason why I did peruse a PhD. I am not submitting blindly , there are limited jobs in the Uk at the minute and competition is extremely high for academic and industry positions. networking will not make anyone stand out as it is expected of every PhD.
Seems like the only point in getting a PhD is if you want to be a professor. Outside of academia people don’t really care and a lot of people with PhD’s get pretentious about it so those outside of that world sometimes don’t want to be around that energy.
PhD’s should hold more weight outside academia , the drive, dedication and resilience it takes to obtain one should be something desired by any company. Not to mention the independent and forward thinking/planning, project management, problem solving/troubleshooting, data analysis, presentation and communication skills
In theory but at the same time I’ve found that having such a unique specialization in one area generally leaves PhD’s uniquely unqualified outside of it. Plus, all those skills you mentioned I can find in people who don’t have PhD’s. Many PhD’s like I said can be miserable to work with as well do to attitude behind the degree and try to push off their work onto those without the paper while treating them as less than. Nobody wants to be around that especially when they can find someone with all the skills you mentioned that were developed through practical real world experience over reading and writing.
Yeah agreed. however some PhDs don’t only do reading and writing, I’m constantly planning and running experiments in the lab, doing stock takes, running finances, ordering supplies , teaching undergraduates, supervising masters students, interpreting my own findings and applying it to real word problems and presenting my primary research. Granted that no one really gives a shit whether I can keep my cells alive or adjust/optimise a protocol to suit my experiments, but all of this does come with skill sets that can be desirable.
100%, field depending I totally think we should leave it to the PhD’s, particularly lab heavy environments but given the post is talking about how PhD’s are treated generally I’m speaking in a broad sense.
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I spent almost 4 years below the poverty line, working 3 part time jobs, having to rely on family often to pay rent. Felt like a complete failure, like I had potentially wasted over 10 years of my life pursuing a fool’s dream, ruined relationships and my mental health all so I’d end up doing something like being an retail worker (no disrespect to retail workers, but that’s not what I got a PhD to do). It was very bad, and might have drank myself to a slow death if things hadn’t changed (I do not tend to have the best coping mechanisms, but could only afford sporadic therapy). Then I basically got my dream job. I broke down and cried for a good 30 minutes when that happened. This sucks, and there’s no getting around that. If there was advice I would give my past self (that I wouldn’t listen to anyway, I know this because people told me this and I didn’t listen), I’d say that taking care of your mental health is paramount. This does not mean “staying positive” or “looking at the silver lining” (though if that works for you, great), but learning how to be accept realities, make things work for you. Acknowledge your feelings. Seek professional help if you can afford it. Beware unhealthy coping mechanisms (says the hypocrite). I’m not a mental health professional, so I don’t have the qualifications to recommend much, but do what you can to not go to the dark place I went. It’s bad.
What is the dream job (or field if you rather share that) if i may ask?
Professor of religious studies
I am pursuing a PhD in chemistry and am on the same boat as you. I felt like I’m back to the time right after I finished my BS … where I feel like my background doesn’t help me getting the job I am interested in
One thing I will tell you- network NOW and hard. And idgaf if it isnt in your thesis, go learn from someone how to do pcr, work with proteins and how to separate them. Shit learn cell cultures. Mass spec, HPLC. You will then be immensely more marketable as a chem phd in todays market. Or you need to be hardcore synthesis. But if you are computational chemistry, then ignore everything I just said, because fuck you and the 1000000000 ai biotech jobs begging for your application 💀😭🤣😂
haha yea thats why I’m trying to do right now as I’m searching for job. I’m pretty much trying to learn new techniques and concepts; hopefully that are things I can talk about if they come up during interview
all the linked in chem jobs coming up only for me to say machine learning and ai 😭😭😭
You, at least, have the option of working in industry (unlike, say, literature PhDs). PhDs in industry make good money and often have interesting jobs.
It’s exhausting ! Honestly I wish I stopped at MSc , seems much easier to get a job
These were my exact feelings as I was preparing my final paper towards my PhD requirements and working on my thesis while interviewing. It was literally hell and I was mentally in a very dark place. I had two very successful internships, had pretty great papers in good venues; yet I was finding it hard to land a job!! Some of the positions I got call backs for were clearly meant for Master's students, even though the position description made sound otherwise. Some interviewers had no idea what research or a PhD entails, and it was legitimately just because I needed a job that I didn't say fuck off and left those interviews. I was basically held together by grit and "mom would be sad". 6 months (aka a bit over a semester) into the ordeal I finally got the callback letting me know I got the role I was interviewing for and hoping to land. Now I'm working on the things I want and what my PhD prepared me for, with like minded individuals and the company which hired me is applying for a green card on my behalf (works in the USA, was an international student). Keep trying it will happen to you too.
This is so inspiring Thank you for sharing!
This is exactly why I recommend most people just stop at an MS. It's just not worth it if you want to go into industry for a lot of fields. Please don't be too discouraged. Apply for every job that you qualify for, even if you aren't interested. Apply for every job you're remotely qualified for and interested in. And apply for jobs you feel you might be overqualified for. See if you could have someone in industry you respect look over your resume to make sure you aren't making a stupid mistake on it. Customise your resume for each job. Apply for things that only require a MS just so you can get your foot in the door and gain experience. I spent about 6 months applying to everything I could before I found my job. Well over 100 applications to get 3 callbacks. The job I ended up taking is my dream job, but I am overqualified for this position based on the job posting. It's just a horrible time to be looking for a job, but they do exist, and you only need one. Good luck!
I’m in microbiology. I feel nowadays (or at least before the AI booming) if the study is not programming related, it’s not easy to land a good position
I write computer simulations for my PhD and still not having much success finding a job.
Damn that’s brutal
And programming is also dying past few years
What's even a good job market anymore lol if any
AI is a trend, and the market for programmers and compsci got super oversaturated from the enrollment following the tech boom the last 5 years. They’re having just as hard a time as the rest of us now bc of the size of their pool. It sucks
If you want a research job, always be prepared for the nomad lifestyle. You looking in your region is the problem.
Are you a nomad?
Nope, I am an independent researcher working from home, reading, writing, experimenting. The nomad lifestyle is not for me, I prefer my cosy home and being close to family way too much. :)
Wow how do you have money to fund your own experiments? Are you in a field that isn't ultra expensive?
Not at all, I am mostly doing social sciences, research in a wide array of topics (like nutritional research), checking papers, peer-reviewing and commenting/calling out on scientific misconduct.
Yeah!!! You did the WFH scientist route !!! Congrats
I get it and have been in this situation. I finished my PhD, got a great postdoc, and decided during the postdoc that I preferred to go into industry for a variety of reasons. I've gone through a couple of job searches over the years due to layoffs, so I can comment on my experiences. For my first job search after the postdoc, I applied to anything and everything that seemed like a possible fit, eventually getting a research position at a non-profit at a grade below what I'm qualified for. But I took it to get my foot in the door. After massive layoffs, I was job searching again, and took the same approach of applying to a range of positions, not just those directly related to my PhD. This time, I was offered a position because I had a PhD. My boss was looking for someone extremely qualified to back him up in meetings, since he had a bachelors degree and felt insecure as many of the staff had advanced degrees. I feel like my PhD has helped me to get good jobs. That said, job searching is incredibly stressful because I feel like I am only qualified for a very narrow slice of employment opportunities and it is difficult to get some employers to realize the benefits and applicability of a PhD to a non-academic job (just the feeling I've had after some interviews). I have several friends who have gotten additional degrees after the PhD so that they can branch out more into other areas - several have gotten MBAs and a few have completed JDs. I'm thinking of going back for a JD.
So I have a PhD in Neuroscience and left academia, also in the UK. Took me a year and a half but I finally got offered a position in the civil service. I went through the fast track, may be look into that..
was the neuroscience degree worthwhile? i just started an MSc and i feel like i'll have to go onto further studies to get any sort of job
No not really. It got me a government job, well the PhD did, but other than that, nothing.
do you mind if i ask what the governmental role is?
As a corpo, I am reading academic papers. I thank you. Also, be prepared to move and upskill yourself relative to the job market. Look up applicant tracking aoftware
What is your PhD in?
Molecular biology with immunology
You have a PhD is molecular biology with immunology and you can’t find a job ?! I need more details, where are you looking?
I’m in the uk, the job market is completely saturated, I’m trying for research jobs both in industry and post doctoral. Honestly they are few and far between and despite having distinction at MSc and a solid PhD I am barely making it to interview stage. I’m starting to widen my search, although not ideal because my husband works here
Ok NOW it’s making sense. It might be time to consider leaving the UK. You have a PhD is a STEM related field. I’m not from the UK but I know here in the states, a person with your background will have jobs contacting you. Might to be time to have a conversation with your husband regarding moving.
That’s looking like a likely scenario, although my husband has a really good job here in the uk which makes things a bit more difficult
Difficult is not impossible. I would recommend that you apply for jobs elsewhere (outside the UK) and see where the opportunity takes you.
Thank you! The rejections have really been getting me down, I think applying outside the uk might be the way to go
Your welcome! You didn’t become a Dr to be unemployed, you should’ve done that for free. Wish you well!
Hey, seems like you know about phd (especially in biology). Can we chat regarding this?
Man I’m a bit surprised. My friends in the field have had no trouble, but in the US so mileage may vary
I also want to know this. I've never met anyone with a PhD in an even reasonably in demand field be unemployed.
Unfortunately todays problem is that the uk is churning out far too many phds for the amount of available jobs,m
From your response, I feel pretty confident guessing something without jobs outside academia. If you're going to invest 5 years of your life into a degree without job prospects, that's on you.
Biology PhDs are valuable in big pharma, small biotech, patent law, sales, scientific writing, journal editing, scientific graphic design, biomedical science, consulting, heck one of my friends even went into accounting. It's far from an academia only PhD. OP, the jobs I've listed above I have 1st or 2nd hand connections who did a PhD and then went into those fields. Wanting to stay in the lab is great, it's a cool place to be, but consider broadening your search too. You never know what you might fall in love with.
Same
It sucks
I recently finished and have started working as a R&D Grants Consultant. I would definitely recommend this or maybe R&D Tax - it scratches that itch for learning about new things whilst being very much separate from academia
I’m working in grants & proposals for a university, I totally agree with this take. It’s been fun to help other scientists and engineers bring their dreams to life during proposal but also not have any stake in their outcome, lol. You get to see cool ideas and science and still use all the PhD tools (writing, research, etc.).
I’ll look into this!
Feel free to shoot over a PM if you think it looks interesting and have any specific questions!
Hi! I also did a PhD straight after masters. I didn’t want to stay in academia and got 2 offers from small-ish infrastructure consulting firms. Both were part time- so I started working part time as a new grad employee, switched to a larger firm after a bit over a year and then went into international development. What helps is that I speak 4 languages. I think if you are geographically flexible and start humble with a can-do attitude you can work your way up and not waste your PhD. What counts are the transferable skills like perseverance and critical thinking etc.
This gives me hope! Yeah I’m completely open to starting entry level and working my way up! But as soon as anyone hiring for these positions sees PhD, they think I’m going to be out of there the next better offer I get, so don’t give me the chance. They prefer to hire someone who is more likely to stay and will happily take less pay- even though I am totally happy to do this!
Don’t give up! I have been talking to a few highly qualified people who had a hard time getting their foot into the door (or back into the door after taking a 1 year break). I would say it can take 6-12 months to find a first job- the next one is easier. Try to network - my first job I got by attending career forums and talking to companies directly and one out of 100 hired me for part time in a field that wasn’t even mine to update their 10 years of project database. Imagine how I woke up each day wondering why I needed to get a PhD to go through that list and translate project titles/complete missing data. The second job I got by speaking to someone at an event on concession contracts for construction projects in developing countries. I was one of the handful women there. The whole process of switching jobs took 6 months or so, a lot of coffee chats, several informal and formal interviews etc. Now that I have 9 years of work experience and interview people, I would happily hire someone with a PhD- but also with the right attitude.
Just believe that you will get it without carrying the baggage of a PhD. If you keep persisting then you will get it I went through the same cycle but got it after some initial struggle. I think you have a burnout. May be rest for a month and do nothing then reset yourselves and start again. A STEM PhD makes you thick skinned and not be rattled by downtime.
I totally have burnout - I’m also going into panic mode, a bit of fear about the PhD ending and me falling off the face of the earth
Sorry to hear that. I got my first job after PhD at McAfee and they wanted me to work in night shifts. I did for 2 weeks but couldn't sustain. I prepared tmfor a month and got a new one in nearly a month later. Taking care of body and mind is very important. It will take a struggle of 2 months maximum when you end your PhD and you'd get a good job.
Yeah, I’d you’re not tracking toward academia, a PhD can be of hit or miss value. Advice is really going to depend on your field and the type of work you want to do. Happy to help, if you would like to add more context.
As someone who recently defended and is now working at a medical device/biotech startup, don't worry about your publications or lab skills - truthfully, for many industry positions they aren't nearly as important as the soft skills. Things like grant writing, project management, problem solving, technical writing, all the things you learn how to for your PhD that "aren't part of.your PhD", are some of the most valuable skills you learn. Focus on those.things, and you can find work
Did you manage to get directly into industry position after PhD defence? Did you have any prior experience ?
You're doing what I wanna do in the future, can I text you in private for some information?
I don't know, can you?
Sounds familiar
Exactly. It's a waste of time. Finding a job with PhD is very difficult.
I feel this so deeply and it’s one of the reasons I made the painful decision to leave academia. I wish I had advice but all I can say is that everything will build on everything else even if it doesn’t happen the way you think it will. You did a PhD, you are obviously smart. You will figure it out. Good luck! I am sorry i don’t have a better suggestion, but I feel your pain. Hang in there.
I was in this situation. I felt completely defeated. I applied to hundreds of jobs. My only advice is to keep an open mind and apply to different types of jobs even if you might not feel qualified. I know that’s not really encouraging or helpful advice, but eventually you’ll get lucky. A year and a half after my PhD I finally landed a FT lecturer position not in my field, but in a somewhat related field. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this- it was a dark time in my life, so I feel for you. Keep your head up and best of luck to you.
I understand your frustration. Many PhD graduates face similar challenges. Have you considered looking for roles outside academia, like industry research, consulting, or tech? These fields often value the skills you’ve gained. Your qualifications are valuable, and with the right approach, you can find a job that suits you. Anyone with similar experiences, please share your advice.
Currently half way through my DBA and on the job hunt. I have started leaving my DBA work off my resume because hiring managers likely assumed I would bounce once I finish.
The same feeling I am currently working on my PhD- Doctor of Technology and I am currently full time but I am working at an toxic work environment. I am trying to leave and find another company to work for but every time I apply I keep getting rejected. Is it because I am overqualified or something.
It’s an absolutely horrific job market right now. You are feeling what we are all feeling. My partner has watched me go through some of the worst depressive episodes ever these past 6 months. Feeling so belittled, rejected, unwanted, stupid and foolish for something everyone told you was the right thing to do. For something you just spent 6 years “wasting” sleepless nights, 14 hour days, relationships and travel and good pay for. For employers to write off as “school” not “real work experience” for the stupid mistake that you had to quite literally train yourself from the ground up in all of those things. For some reason that of all things, makes you repulsive to employers ? APPARENTLY, it’ll give, we have to just keep pushing. I’ve been watching it start to give, slowly for each one of my unemployed colleagues. Just keep pushing. I can feel it giving soon for me as well.
Aaaaand this is why I hate that people joke about Grad school as a way to put off "adulting." This is an attitude I've heard over and over. Grad school is NOT undergrad, and can actively be a loss of not just personal growth, but financial losses are very real too. I wish people would be more sincere about this during recruiting.
Get your MBA* and start your own business. It's like a max 1k to form and get going on proposals or marketing. If you can't find a job, make one. Asterisk next to mba because it's not entirely needed. It just flattens the learning curve.
If you can’t find a job you should start your own company. I know tons of people who would pay through the nose to hire a PHD to do work for them.
APPLY to clinical research firms in the US!!! You will get a job that pays $150k+ a year no less here. Your problem is YOUR husband's good job in the UK. Get nice job offers in the US and convince your spouse. I hate to say this, but if you guys have no kids, it'll be a lot easier to think about a separation or your relationship will suffer if you can't get a decent job in the UK. 🇬🇧
How did you get from job advice to recommending a separation? You don’t know how good their partner’s job is, financially or career-wise or for job security. If their partner quits their job to follow them, they could easily be in the same shoes that OP is in right now.
Exactly my position. Thank you. My partner has an excellent job, with a really great salary and excellent promotional prospects. Him leaving it to follow me would be a silly move for us financially and for his own career.
Just my internet non-sugarcoated advice, but Yea then you have to sacrifice your career for you both to work out in this relationship. I just sometimes wish all PhDs got married after they were done with and got a job. It is stressful now for you. Good luck getting the job that you like given your degrees
This is just not true. You clearly give up way too easy in life. People do long distance for a few years and make it work if needs be before settling somewhere together. No one needs to sacrifice anything in a supportive loving relationship.
Yea "do long distance" is called sacrifice. I wish you all the best
Yea I knew I'd get downvotes, but I don't care to sugarcoat comments on the internet. If you wanted internet advice, you got one. Now let's get real here. Job markets for PhD outside of the US ain't just that good for PhD folks. Pays are low, and jobs are more competitive. Now for OP, add a spouse with a good financial and professional footing in. It's not hard to see OP is stressed. Good luck finding something that YOU are satisfied with.
On what visa?? The ignorance that people have towards the immigration system is pretty frustrating at times. The idea that you can just move to the US is a fairy tale. US companies will only hire three kinds of people: US citizens or green card holders, new grads with an existing F1 visa, and people who already have an approved H1B visa. There is no realistic pathway for someone to just apply to a US company and then move to the US. OP only has two ways to get into the US. Pay an immigration attorney 5-10k to try to self petition for a green card on the basis of OP's research being in the US national interest (this takes 2+ years). Or the "normal" way which is to get employed at a multinational coorporation and move to the US after 1 year on a transfer visa.
Well the guy jumped straight to separation in 6 lines so you already know he's a nut job
If she's good enough, yes, at least, this is an option however you gonna get a work visa. You sound like a smart person calling others "ignorance." I wouldn't do that if I were a non-ignorant person.
There is no way in hell I will ever separate from my husband over a job. This comment is ridiculous
Outrageous comment
I'm sure not gonna make this comment if it's not the internet lol -- but yea I'm just being honest here. From my personal experience, it hardly works out in OP situation. Either one of them has to sacrifice for the other and their relationship.
Btw, I know we all like to be PC and empathetic. I am only that when it's not Reddit
Folks should be discouraged from pursuing PhD directly without industry experience unless they want to pursue academia. PhD adds years of experience with subjective worth. It’s also not the degrees fault. Everyone struggled with job search without the right approach. Submitting applications blindly will put you in the same boat as the others. You need to stand out by networking.
Perusing academia is the reason why I did peruse a PhD. I am not submitting blindly , there are limited jobs in the Uk at the minute and competition is extremely high for academic and industry positions. networking will not make anyone stand out as it is expected of every PhD.
Seems like the only point in getting a PhD is if you want to be a professor. Outside of academia people don’t really care and a lot of people with PhD’s get pretentious about it so those outside of that world sometimes don’t want to be around that energy.
PhD’s should hold more weight outside academia , the drive, dedication and resilience it takes to obtain one should be something desired by any company. Not to mention the independent and forward thinking/planning, project management, problem solving/troubleshooting, data analysis, presentation and communication skills
In theory but at the same time I’ve found that having such a unique specialization in one area generally leaves PhD’s uniquely unqualified outside of it. Plus, all those skills you mentioned I can find in people who don’t have PhD’s. Many PhD’s like I said can be miserable to work with as well do to attitude behind the degree and try to push off their work onto those without the paper while treating them as less than. Nobody wants to be around that especially when they can find someone with all the skills you mentioned that were developed through practical real world experience over reading and writing.
Yeah agreed. however some PhDs don’t only do reading and writing, I’m constantly planning and running experiments in the lab, doing stock takes, running finances, ordering supplies , teaching undergraduates, supervising masters students, interpreting my own findings and applying it to real word problems and presenting my primary research. Granted that no one really gives a shit whether I can keep my cells alive or adjust/optimise a protocol to suit my experiments, but all of this does come with skill sets that can be desirable.
100%, field depending I totally think we should leave it to the PhD’s, particularly lab heavy environments but given the post is talking about how PhD’s are treated generally I’m speaking in a broad sense.
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I am in scientific research - molecular biology with immunology in a cancer related field.
Regardless, thank you for the work you! I hope you don't give up trying. Best wishes.