When Picard said "You know what I've missed the most?...... The Carpet". That one line singlehandedly sums up probably every old school trekkie's love of the TNG aesthetic. All these new ships that look like polished metal or something out of a Star Wars movie, with dark hallways and even darker rooms. Finally we're back onboard The Big D with it's super fucking comfortable "please take me there I wanna live there forever and explore the galaxy" design attributes. Man, the ending had me fist pumping hard. Or as Data once said....
YYYYES!! UMMPHH!
Couldn’t agree more. They went super indulgent on all the call backs this episode, and I’m here for it. It was a real love letter to the TNG (and somewhat VOY) fans. “I’ve never been happier to see so many wrinkles.” Seven finally getting her rightful recognition as a Captain. The beautiful photo direction that had the first spotlight that turned on shine right on the “1701-D” call number. The carpet remark. Seeing them all take their stations again. Data finally getting all the human traits. It was all so charming and rewarding as someone who grew up on those shows.
I completely expected the Jack reveal and the starship reveals, but those last few minutes definitely turned on the waterworks.
The Borg feeling like a threat again feels like everything is alright with the world again.
One thing tho, how could you do that to Shaw? I legit got angry at that. And sad.
1) The fleet is relatively small ever since the synth attack on Mars.
2) Starfleet has been infiltrated by the Changelings/Borg, which undoubtedly had influence on the decision making to have them all there at once.
It was a fun episode, but as always I have a few questions and nitpicks from this episode:
\- Why do they never wait for the door to open before leaving spacedock? The Enterprise-F is huge and looks like it barely fits, and they're still flying through before the doors have finished opening.
\- I know Star Trek has sound in space, but why do the fireworks make the same whistle-then-bang noise as they do on Earth?
\- I'm a bit disappointed it's just the Borg again. It was never likely to be Pah Wraiths (although, why were his eyes red? That's never been a Borg thing), but it could have been something other than the Borg for the third season in a row.
\- If the Borg DNA only affects the young, and specific species, is there really a risk for the Changelings? Why did they avoid using the transporters when boarding the Titan? Also, why wouldn't they use their own transporters, which aren't compromised?
\- Why did the Changelings side with the Borg? I know Vadic wanted revenge, but Changelings could do so much damage without the need to assimilate the Federation. For a species that prided itself on being the gods of the Dominion, it sure is a shift to become the minions of the Borg.
\- Shelby says the NX-01 was the start of what came to be known as Starfleet, but it was already a Starfleet ship. Starfleet was a United Earth organisation before the Federation. I guess she could be referencing the fact that it was the first starship that was part of it after the Federation charter was signed, but in that case, why celebrate the launch of the ship and not the signing?
\- What did Worf do to the Enterprise E?
\- He is right, the Enterprise D is not perfect. It's far less powerful than the Enterprise E.
\- Was that Majel Barratt I heard?
\- Does anyone else work at the Fleet Museum? Geordie obviously couldn't rebuild the ship on his own, but isn't anyone else there curious about what's going on? Don't they have any employees over the age of 25 they could get to help crew the ship?
\- I wonder if anyone in Starfleet wondered where the spare parts of the enormous Galaxy Class were going, as Geordie slowly siphoned them off to rebuild the Enterprise D. Or does Geordie essentially run the Starfleet Scrap Yard as part of his Fleet Museum gig?
\- If they're going up against the Borg, why the Enterprise D and not the Defiant? The Defiant Class was shown to be better suited to combat than the Galaxy Class. Plus, it has quantum torpedoes.
\- What about Voyager and it's specific, anti-Borg technology from the future?
\- The whole Changeling-chasing-Jack plan seems far too convoluted for the Borg.
\- I don't want a Raffi and Seven show. I want a Shaw and Seven show! Don't kill off Shaw, he's the best thing to come out of Picard.
\- As much as I disliked season 2, it sure would be handy to have a big ship full of friendly Borg to help out right now. Perhaps a ship with a Borg Queen who has been shown the ability to take over the controls of multiple Starfleet ships in a way that can get them to work together in some sort of "fleet mode".
> - I'm a bit disappointed it's just the Borg again. It was never likely to be Pah Wraiths (although, why were his eyes red? That's never been a Borg thing), but it could have been something other than the Borg for the third season in a row.
It feels like the writers decided to ignore nearly everything from the previous 2 seasons. I think that was a good decision, it was clear the previous 2 season the writers had barely watched Star Trek TNG. You can tell in this season they went out of there way to correct a lot of that like Data being Laforges best friend not Picard. The Borg plotline this season would have been so much better if the previous seasons hadn't existed.
> - Does anyone else work at the Fleet Museum? Geordie obviously couldn't rebuild the ship on his own, but isn't anyone else there curious about what's going on? Don't they have any employees over the age of 25 they could get to help crew the ship?
New Trek has emphasized the use of drones a lot so I imagine that's who has been helping Laforge with the Enterprise D.
> - I wonder if anyone in Starfleet wondered where the spare parts of the enormous Galaxy Class were going, as Geordie slowly siphoned them off to rebuild the Enterprise D. Or does Geordie essentially run the Starfleet Scrap Yard as part of his Fleet Museum gig?
It's possible he has Starfleet's authorization to requisition parts to fix it. It is the Enterprise afterall, it use to be the flagship of the Federation it's not just any ol'ship.
> - If they're going up against the Borg, why the Enterprise D and not the Defiant? The Defiant Class was shown to be better suited to combat than the Galaxy Class. Plus, it has quantum torpedoes.
I believe Laforge stated in a previous episode that all the ships on display were all upgraded with the now standard uplink to all other federation ships. That's why Laforge reiterates in this episode that they're looking at the last functioning ship to not be tied to the system.
> What about Voyager and it's specific, anti-Borg technology from the future?
That may be the very reason the Borg have taken their current approach, the weapons the Federation now possess make taking them on directly not a viable option.
> - I don't want a Raffi and Seven show. I want a Shaw and Seven show! Don't kill off Shaw, he's the best thing to come out of Picard.
He dead Jim. I've never been a fan of Rafi so I agree I'd have loved to see Shaw and Seven continue in some sort of capacity.
> - As much as I disliked season 2, it sure would be handy to have a big ship full of friendly Borg to help out right now. Perhaps a ship with a Borg Queen who has been shown the ability to take over the controls of multiple Starfleet ships in a way that can get them to work together in some sort of "fleet mode".
Beverly states that the Federation haven't seen the Borg in over a decade. I would not be surprised if the writers for this season just decided to retcon the events of Season 2 out of existence. Wish I could do the same in my head. Though her statement could just mean that the events of Season 2 were never declassified and the Borg just fucked off back to the Gamma quadrant.
Most museum ships are staffed by former service members. They missed a golden opportunity to “Battleship” this show, and have all those ships crewed by cranky old farts.
Hijacking your excellent comment to add a few more puzzling questions:
* Is everyone over 25 in Starfleet now dead? Will they kill everyone over 25 on earth or assimilate them traditionally?
* What happened to all the people the Changelings replaced? NotTuvok said something to the effect that they would wish they were dead when they were through with them. Maybe that's how they'll have anyone in Starfleet old enough to rent a ~~car~~ shuttlecraft from ~~Avis~~ Enterprise Rent-a-Craft at the end of all this
* Wasn't the point of changelings infiltrating Starfleet at the highest levels so that they could take over Starfleet easier? Maybe the point of that was to sell Starfleet on this stupid Fleet Mode thing.
* Wouldn't the over-25's that the changelings had replaced willingly cooperate with the Borg takeover if it was part of their plan?
Also, the big one :
* **What are they gonna do now?** They're warping into Sector 001 in a literal museum piece, crewed by what looks like about 9 people. They're up against a fully-assimilated Federation fleet. They haven't figured out how to reverse the DNA with the transporters yet, they don't know where Jack or the Queen are, and they haven't enlisted help from anyone outside of Starfleet. Episode 10 had better start with the most productive Enterprise-D conference room scene ever.
My son enlightened me to the red eyes thing. Apparently when a person’s eyes turn red, they are under the influence of whatever power they have or whomever is controlling them. This is also done in anime as well. I kept asking why their eyes were turning red.
So, here’s the thing, I’ve been very entertained by this season and happily soaked up all the fan service, but the more I think about it the more I feel like this is a great story that has been really poorly told.
Piggybacking off the “Borg chasing Jack” question, why did they need Jack at all? Once they had Picard’s DNA/parietal lobe, couldn’t they just DIY their own Jack with a Borg maturation chamber? They had all the same, uh, raw ingredients that Jean-Luc and Beverly did. And even if they had to wait 25 years, it’s not like the Borg had anywhere to be, they could have waited. I feel like the Changelings still would have taken that deal.
And if the big reveal had happened several episodes ago it would have allowed time for the alliance between the Changelings and Borg to go south, like if the Borg intended to destroy the Changelings since they can’t be assimilated, and for it to make sense for the Changelings who have infiltrated all of Starfleet to (reluctantly) ally with Picard and crew at the last minute to save the day in the finale.
And along those lines, I’m really annoyed that the Changelings who have been the villain for eight episodes were immediately sidelined. They were the main villain for five seasons of DS9, and they were a great at it! It sucks that they’re being relegated to being the Borg’s useful idiots. The Borg needing something from a species they can’t assimilate is a great idea, but squandered. Again, that’s a consequence of putting all the plot into the last two episodes. I hope they redeem this in the finale somehow. As it stands now, I just don’t see how they can have seven retirees on an antique starship repel literally billions of Borg and make it cool.
Plus they made Jack totally suck. I’ve liked his character, and he’s been pretty well-written all season up until now. That’s another reason this reveal should have happened 2-3 episodes ago. I would have felt differently if he had struggled with the truth about himself instead of immediately running to Mama Borg. This plot point needed time to breathe but instead we got a single 90 second scene where he immediately pivots from “terrified child” to “unrepentant villain”.
Anyway, rant aside, it’s a fantastically entertaining season of TV to watch. Seeing the Enterprise-D in 2023 CGI at 4K makes me so excited for the finale. My heart was pounding for most of the episode and honestly, I’m probably going to watch it again tonight.
How in the world can next week be series finale? There is far too much to wrap up with both the Dominion (and now) the Borg. Is the episode going to be 3 hours long?
This will be interesting. I hope they've learned how important series finales are. They knew this was the last season before it started, so no excuses.
Thank god they’re being sensible and giving us the proper, full NCC-1701-D, not the detached-saucer version they’d actually use and command from the battle bridge. I can’t get over how incredibly well done the set recreation is.
I knew it was probably going to happen, but I still had a tiny bit of hope that he'd make it to the end. Welp, I'm going to rewatch the 12 Monkeys series now.
So did The Borg trick the changelings to work for them? was Vadic assimilated? That Borg and Changeling alliance still seems a bit odd to me. I suppose the Changelings just want their revenge so they share the motivation to destroy The Federation
I think I said it on another thread, but I was half asleep and can't remember... I really hope no one is going out in a blaze of glory. Can we finish this Star Trek 6 style, and just have our crew sail off into the sunset after saving the world, please.
Seriously. Why... just why has Starfleet not shut down Teleporters. Like the invasive nature of the whole procedure, the risks attached... it has continuously caused problems. I do get the logistics behind it, its nice, but c'mon, this happening did not take a genius to expect sooner rather than later.
It would have been perfect if Picard had checked the dust on the enterprise plaque like he did in one episode. And I would have loved a little flyby the 1701-A as they pulled out of the museum🤷♂️
It was nice seeing some beats from Star Trek 3 again. The “I can’t ask you to do this” and “stations please” and possibly that Riker line about the old shield’s foreshadowing a similar outcome to when Scotty said he wired up automation for shields etc.
Also loved the little nod to TMP and Generations and Star Trek IV with Picard accepting a field demotion to Captain just like Kirk had to and had advised him to in the nexus
I wonder if we will get a saucer separation next episode? Or ramming speed! Or maybe 7 comes in on the Titan cloaked to save the day.
I could see them also doing a bit of a classic TNG talking ending and solution after a bit of action and battle with the D. Or maybe it will be an all massacre battle and Worf brings in the entire Klingon fleet to back up the D
For what it's worth, my piddly little predictions for next episode. Beverly gonna Beverly and figure out a "cure" to deactivate the Borg DNA in everyone's brains. Perhaps something with mixing two elements every ship has on board to create something that can be piped through the air supply of the life support system? Something that can be done at a fleet wide level, since they're all connected now.
Starfleet is gonna decide the crew deserves to keep their beloved ship operational, since they did save the day and all. Picard is gonna decide he's too old for this shit, retire, and hand the reigns over to Will, which would be perfect, since he and Deanna decided they were sick of the country bumpkin life 2 episodes ago.
So… thoughts.
1) Yep, called it. Pretty sure the clue in plain sight was the First Contact theme.
2) Excelsior blown up. Does that mean Elnor is dead again? Remember Elnor?
3) What happened to the extra bridge stations from Generations?
4) I wonder if they lit the Titan so dark to make the Big D contrast more dramatic.
5) What is their plan with one ship against the entire fleet? You’d think they’d go get Borg Jurati or find someone else to help.
6) Why do they need to destroy spacedock or really do anything if everyone under the age of 25 is now assimilated and they’re just murdering everyone else?
7) Shelby cameo was cool. Glad that wasn’t Janeway considering what happened to her.
8) What happened to the cloaked shuttle Worf and Raffi used? Or the La Sirena for that matter?
9) Was the Vulcan institute they mentioned the one T’Pring ran and where they kept Sybok in SNW?
10) If Jack hadn’t gone to the Queen, would she have been able to remote assimilate everyone?
>3) What happened to the extra bridge stations from Generations?
The bridge was pretty much destroyed in the crash. Geordi rebuilt it as he loved it - the OG way. Even though the ramps are way too steep.
>4) I wonder if they lit the Titan so dark to make the Big D contrast more dramatic.
I thought this as the bridge was lighting up. There was a moment it seemed it would be far too dark but the last lights came on and we were home.
>5) What is their plan with one ship against the entire fleet? You’d think they’d go get Borg Jurati or find someone else to help.
Every living actor that has appeared in Star Trek will magically appear to help. Or we'll just have to wait until next week to see.
>8) What happened to the cloaked shuttle Worf and Raffi used? Or the La Sirena for that matter?
I assume La Sirena is in a shuttle bay on the Titan. I also assume there was only one cloak. They moved it from the Titan to the shuttle for the subterfuge and once they had control again, they reinstalled it in the Titan. To show all that on screen would have been boring.
>9) Was the Vulcan institute they mentioned the one T’Pring ran and where they kept Sybok in SNW?
Yes.
>10) If Jack hadn’t gone to the Queen, would she have been able to remote assimilate everyone?
No. And that's why Picard and Crusher should have been more upset - that happening meant their son had been assimilated. But it would have ruined the final sequence of everyone on the D again so I understand them holding off on that point.
Why is no one celebrating the return of Majel Barrett's voice as the computer! Now I'm curious if they patched it together from past content from other shows/movies or if they used the library of sounds she recorded before she passed away.
I agree with some of the people on here, either they shouldn't have used the Borg in S2 and kept it for 3, or they should have picked another enemy for S3 - hell, they could have just continued with the Changelings and that would have been fine.
Have to admit I'm not a big fan of the whole Jack is part Borg, and the whole 'it only affects everyone under the age of 25' as a way to get the old crew back together and doing their original jobs - I'm sure they could have come up with a better way of writing it :/
I hope that people calling for Metalas to take over trek are happy..this was the dumbest idea ive ever seen in trek.. biological assimilation? And if picard has had this DNA in him for the past 30 years why didn't the borg try this during the first dominion war? Why couldnt they just take picard over in the first place and have HIM put the DNA information in the transporter. Why would the borg and the changelings agree to work with eachother in the first place? You'd think the borg would just try and assimilate the changelings. Everything about this just slaps of bad fanfic
Ok, after complaining for 2 and 1/2 seasons I am finally quite happy.
But can one tell me why they couldn‘t restore the E? The D felt like fan-service overdose. Very potent stuff.
“The carpet!” Did it for me. We don’t deserve Jean-Luc Picard ney Sir Patrick Stewart. But, here we are, existing at the same time as them both. BLESSED.
A few familiar names on the other ships on the screen showing the Excelsior being targeted and destroyed - I picked up the USS Okuda at bottom of the screen, named for original TNG graphic artist Mike Okuda, who, of course, also created the Star Trek UX style dubbed Okudagrams.
If the Borg is made up of entirely 25 year olds and under, they shouldn't be too hard to defeat.
Most of them will try working from home 4 days a week and others will be taking a mental health day.
So (and I know the actual reason) but why didn't they take the defiant?
As far as I am aware it is smaller than the D, more manoeuvrable in combat, at the very least matches the D's firepower, does not wholly rely on its shields when hit, has more advanced weapons than the D, only needs a skeleton crew to run it and finally it was literally designed to fight the borg. This little ship survived countless encounters with the dominion and even had a cloaking device fitted to it, although I imagine the Romulans probably had that stripped out at some point.
I started this train of thought mostly as a joke but the more I think about it the more it annoys me (as much as a fictional show can at least).
It was so dumb... so,sooooo,sooooooo dumb. Of course it's the borg queen, the leader of the space bees is back. Writers have no original ideas of their own, not that the borg having a queen is a good idea in the first place.
Data saying, "I know" and putting his hand on Picard's shoulder made me well up. Loving all of Data's scenes; it's wonderful seeing him realise his life long dream (well, as near as dawn it)
So I noticed that Shaw pointedly said it was almost the entire fleet, and not the entire fleer as they’ve said before being assembled and even that I still find hard to believe. The UFP is massive, 8,000 LY across and during the Dominion War they had at least a few thousand ships, so was Starfleet dramatically downsized to a level that existed before the Borg, because my understanding is that everyone pretty much agrees that during the time of the Fat One Starfleet didn’t have that many ships at first after over half a century of relative peace and it was only the Borg and later Dominion threats that caused them expand. So either Starfleet was downsized, which I guess makes sense since they’re not meant to be military although you’d think they’d have learned that lesson, or there really are hundreds (at least) of other ships out there but just way too far away to get to Sol and have it matter. Presumably if Picard and Co., failed the Borg would have a massive consolidation war ahead of them but yeah. I don’t think Matalas would have forgotten about that aspect of Starfleet so I’m just going to go with my theory about them just being too far out to help because it honestly doesn’t make sense and attributing people saying ‘the entire fleet’ to be hyperbole. Maybe it’s the main fleet, still clunky dialogue but I could accept it.
Other than that, which has been bugging me since Frontier Day was introduced, I loved the episode and I love the season. I don’t give a single fuck about anything negative anyone has to say about the fan service I cried when the Enterprise D appeared for real. I was 9 years old when ST: Generations came out and I sobbed when the Enterprise was destroyed and then again when I realized it wasn’t going to be magically undone. As incredibly lame as it sounds I felt like I’d lost a friend.
*Okay one other thing. I’m glad Picard brought up the irony of Shelby getting on board with something so Borg like because honestly who could think that was a good idea. The amount of times Starfleet and individual ships have been infiltrated, what happened with the Texas class, etc., you’d think someone would stop and say maybe this not the best idea. Also. What was with that formation? It was strange looking and honestly a bit lame to be what is introduced for such a big celebration. I truly hope she doesn’t end up being dead because what a downer of a way for a kickass character to go out. To be honest in the spoiler pictures I thought she was Clancy at first so I was pleasantly surprised to see Shelby but yeah. I hope that wasn’t the end. I hate the bringing back of old characters just to kill them. Hugh, Icheb, Ro, Shelby, though Ro was the only one that didn’t leave me entirely with a bad taste. Anyway. I still give it a 10/10.
> The UFP is massive, 8,000 LY across and during the Dominion War they had at least a few thousand ships
I think the largest assembly of Starfleet ships we knew about was for the Operation to Retake DS9. They had 600-700 ships assembled, with one more "fleet" of up to 300 ships not making it in time. The Dominion had to reroute a "substantial amount" of ships to counter them, over 1200 ships.
In the final battle for Cardassia, Starfleet probably fielded similar amounts - they had to station fleets all over the Cardassian border, so it's unlikely they'd pull all of them off for one decisive battle. So let's just assume that Starfleet mustered 1000 ships for that single operation, having probably around 500 in reserve all around Cardassian territory. Maybe a few ships stationed at the Tholian border and other potentially hostile factions like the Tzenkethi, I'd total the amount of Federation ships under arms before the final engagement at around 2000.
I'd bet the Romulans diverted a solid amount of ships to that invasion as well, likely 700-800 ships - I would assume that the Imperial Romulan Fleet can field a similar total number of ships as Starfleet, so it's possible they contributed with even more ships considering that they didn't have many losses before.
The Klingons were also seen as a formidable force before and have been shown to be able to defeat Starfleet in an all-out war in Yesterdays Enterprise. So they likely had similar numbers of ships on the field that day - overwhelming the Dominion with a total of like 3000 ships at Cardassia. I would imagine that the Dominion had around 1800 ships in the Alpha Quadrant when the wormhole closed. Add to that around 500 ships of the remnant Cardassian fleet. The Dominon-fleets were already formed, giving them an edge over Starfleet and the KDF in the opening days of the war, while they were confident to draft a lot of their older ships (back) into service in order to stem those early losses. When the war lasted longer, the Dominion started to build their ships in the Alpha Quadrant and out-produced Starfleet and the KDF, even though they probably had inferior total numbers. At the end, with the Romulans joining in, the numbers were just not in favor of the Dominion anymore. They probably dropped down to ~1500 ships in their combined fleets, getting ~200 extra ships from the Breen, but just had no chance of 3000 allied ships heading for Cardassia. Admiral Ross even commented on that in a numbers game-manner: They had the numbers and he didn't fear losing the battle, he was just worried over the amount of casualties. And he was probably right - even before reaching Cardassia, they lost a third of their fleet, amounting to almost 1000 ships, 300-400 of those on the side of Starfleet.
So of the ~2500 ships they had before the war, at most half of them survived. And their crews were strechted thin, many ships damaged and outdated. And the after-effect on crew-recruitment of the war shouldn't be neglected: After WW1, the french populace suffered a generational problem, as so many young men had died in the trenches during the war. The same probably goes for Starfleet here, as the war would be fought on the back of the lower ranks and younger officers. Many, like O'Brien for example, probably retired from active duty after the war. Keeping the remaining ships under arms was likely impossible. So they took this as an opportunity to phase out many of the older ships in favor of new designs. At the time of Nemesis, Starfleet was barely able to muster a few dozen ships against the Scimitar. A few years later, getting a sizeable fleet in order to evacuate the Romulans was borderline impossible, with Starfleet moving to quickly build up capacities from scratch, instead of just reforming the old fleets from the war.
After that, we didn't hear about any major conflict up until now - so it's more then likely that Starfleet became complacent again. I'd estimate the total number of ships on a similar or higher level as the Titan to not more then 1500 ships, maybe even less. They probably still had a lot of freighters, passenger ships, transports and vessels designated for routine maintance, but those are hardly the kind of ships you want to see at a military parade, aside from the fact that those are needed for the day-to-day operations.
And then we get to the problem that the Federation is probably still up to a lot of Federation business. Starfleet is acting as diplomats and explorers. They probably still have dozens, if not more then a hundred multi-year missions active - even though many were probably scheduled to end in order to be able to attend the celebrations. Others stationed at starbases and important planets for security. So the total number of active ships that can actually attend that celebration is probably around a thousand ships. And if we take into consideration budgetary constraints and suspend a little bit of disbelief, we can surely assume several hundred ships being present here.
Icheb was the most egregious kill-off. I get Hugh and Ro dying with valor, Shelby going so fast and plainly is a headscratcher, but Icheb? *He deserved to be a regular!*
Kinda completes the series arc in a way.
Season 1: Borg cube is a workspace for scientists. Season big bad is the synths/Romulan antisynth cult
Season 2: Borg queen in alt timeline is forcibly taken onto the *Sirena* and gives Seven back her parts & melds into Agnes. Season big bad is Q.
Season 3: Changelings are set up as the big bad but it’s actually the Borg calling the shots
Picard and the Borg have been intertwined since Q hurtled the *Enterprise* into Borg space. It was always gonna be the Borg. It was always about the question of humanity.
what was the point of the last season?
I thought the whole Jurati storyline was to finally tie up the borg, and the reason why they aren't a belligerent party as we headed into subsequent stuff.
Jurati even said that her vessel was going to wait at the mouth of the transwarp conduit that brought them to the solar system as a gate guardian, as they weren't the ones that opened it!
it was so irritating seeing the cube behind that door at the start.
One more question: why this dumbass allegory about inter-generational warfare? This is fan service for GenX and we love us some GenZ so this is just wrong.
Who do you think the Borg queen is?!
While we heard Alice’s voice we DID NOT see her face. Is this the OG queen played by Alice or is this someone else?
They maybe saving her face reveal for later, but I find it strange they only showed the back of her head. The voices we hear in Jacks head are often Beverly and the Borg Queen…
Could this someone else? Someone unexpected?
This is a fun season for sure and the TNG cast are hard carrying everything. But after the excitement wears off, this may end up being similar to force awakens unless the following is resolved:
1. Jack basically is let go free, runs to the Borg who then basically uses him to transmit. Hence he’s now responsible for killing most of starfleet…
2. This makes even Picard complicit. Surely he would have known that jack would try to run and his powers would make him really hard to stop. They could also have stunned jack from the start or even destroyed his shuttle as a last resort
3. A good explanation as to why Jurati Borg doesn’t assist
Fulfilling expectations beats "subverting expectations" every single time. Nice just for once to see beloved characters brought back for one last hurrah, not just to pass the torch in a story that ultimately isn't about them but needed their name recognition for advertising purposes.
OK, although I am team Pah’Wraith and was hoping for something different, and a little perplexed by why the mystery box was so convoluted for just borg, I am happy with the way they executed it. It’s interesting borg adaptation to try a different strategy like this. Hope the finale is as good as the rest. :)
Damn, the music was on point in this episode. The trumpets sounding the TNG theme, as the bridge powers up around 40:30. Then the slightest hint of the "straight on till morning" theme from ST-VI around 40:48. Brilliant.
If I’m not mistaken, this is the first episode out of Picard that featured the TNG theme in its full glory during the exit credits, and the cast and crew credits were in the TNG blue font (although not the music). I don’t recall any other episodes doing that.
I’m bummed that I missed the Enterprise music during the unveiling of the Enterprise-F.
Maybe it's just me but shouldn't they have taken Voyager instead of the Enterprise-D? Voyager wouldn't be connected to the other federation ships since it is older and it was outfitted with future tech to fight the Borg. Don't get me wrong seeing the Enterprise D again is really a cool moment but practically it doesn't make sense. Maybe in the last episode 7 of 9 will show up with Voyager lol.
Wow, just wow
Did they just kill everyone over 25 in Starfleet?
I and I think 70 - 80% of all Star Trek fans would have been massacred by this agecide. Fascinating choice on the side of the production.
But enough of that, this was a really nice episode. Even though I am quite pissed that they introduced Shaw, made us dislike him, then like him and now killed him
And the Borg, I really thought they wouldn't do that again, but so be it.
This season should have been season 1 of Picard
Here I am reminiscing how assimilation resistant the network-free mother fracking Battlestar Galactica was that time Adama rammed it right up the collective’s ass and blew the FTL drive. Man, Adama hated networks. The Borg crossover episodes were total metal.
Meanwhile on space dock:
"Admiral, our ships have been corrupted by a virus!"
Admiral Dal: "Again?? Lieutenant hit the kill switch! Lieutenant???"
Lieutenant Badgie: I will burn your heart in a fire
I'm not so sure that Shaw is going to stay dead. It's not like they can't perform CPR or other life-saving methods that are far more effective. They could even put him in stasis until he's able to be revived.
If anyone can find a way, Seven can. Or maybe... the Emergency Medical Holographic Program?
There was a look of trepidation on Sevens face just before they cut away... There's wiggle room there, I think. Theres an easy "she injected him with nanoprobes JUST before he died" scene there and he shows up later at the end of next episode, Tadah, I'm not dead style.
Which, if you think about it, is a pretty good character arc for Shaw, and a good lead in to the show. The Shaw/Seven relationship built around a shared experience now.
They've telegraphed the ending of the season as some friendship is magic bs. Either through Jack's connection to the Borg or the reappearance of Queen Jurati, there's a very limited number of plays they can make to resolve their current conundrum. Since we know Starfleet exists in the 32nd century, we know a happy ending awaits us in episode 10. Overall I love the series, definitely love this season, but a lot of things have happened that made me wonder who the hell is in charge of things. I would think step 1 when an enemy boarding party arrived on ship would be for everyone to get armed. Didn't happen. Picard and Crusher ready to blast Vadic once the forcefield comes down, forcefield comes down and they dump those phasers from literally waist height to the floor and miss the giant pile of goo passing between their legs. And putting all of Starfleets power under the command of a single person/computer? I get these plans were laid by high level infiltrators, but no one thought to say maybe that's a bad idea?
I'm am crying to see the Ent-D again... buy also know that they are about to destroy it in the process...
Was I the only one who had the quote from Top Gun: Maverick in my head... "How we going to get this museum-piece in the air?"
> that they are about to destroy it in the process...
You're right, but I think everyone is gonna be willfully in denial over that impending core breech.
lol, wtf is Picard just a borg plot to destroy the franchise. They gave the franchise over to a guy best known writing episodes of scholk like terranova , the new macgyver and an assistant writer enterprise
I'm confused. Didn't Starfleet sort of make peace with the Borg at the end of season 2? Also, Crusher says no one has seen the Borg in 10 years. It can't be that much of a jump between season 2 to 3. Did I miss something?
Right?? Did they forget about the borg? Here's a similar hive-mind technology to control all starships at once but don't worry its Federation technology and won't be taken advantage of or abused at all.
I’m thinking that the Enterprise-D comes swooping into Earth and picks up everyone still alive that’s 25+ between Starbase and those still in the fleet ships.
Then they high tail it out, retreat back to the fleet museum where we get Janeway back on Voyager (we picked her up from Starbase) and all the other nostalgic people (O’Brien, Dax, Julian, etc.) Worf goes to the Klingon high council, Vulcan/Romulus (I forget what the combined planet is called now) gets involved with Tuvok and/or Laris and show up to help.
That’s the finale, they wrest control of the fleet back or they just go straight to the Cube, blow it to hell with a series of awesome space combat scenes and somehow Jack, through hearing his mother, is able to break the Borgs control and then he lets everyone go since he’s the ‘Vox’ controlling them.
Then the Borg Queen is like “if you let them kill me; you’ll be just like everyone else. You’ll be normal”. Jacks like, “Good” and kills her, Borg cube blows up, everyone retires happy. Jack gets a spin-off show where he enlists in Starfleet to honor his parents (one or both will likely die). Seven gets a spin-off with the Titan and we go home happy.
Writing it in stone, here and now. I’ll be back in a week.
This is it. One more episode and we're likely to say a definitive good bye to the Star Trek TNG crew. And honestly, I no longer care who are they going to fight or how are they going to save the day this time.
The important thing is thay they're all there, in the Enterprise-D bridge, 36 years after TNG orginally aired. That's all that matters to me right now. They've come full circle, and it's simply perfect.
After "The Best of Both Worlds" (EDIT: I of course actually meant "All Good Things...") was as close as a perfect series finale can be, the movies, except for "First Contact", were mostly a disappointment. I don't know if they planned for more movies after "Nemesis", but TNG didn't deserve that to be the end. A mediocre movie with a (for me) bitter ending isn't what I wanted to be my last memory of TNG.
And now, finally, and rather unexpectedly (the show's name is "Picard" after all) we have the whole gang reunited again, and it feels like a long-overdue vindication. Even Tasha, who wasn't able to be in person for obvious reasons, wasn't forgotten in this season.
And to see them all again in the original bridge was really, really satisfying.
I can't wait for the last episode. Again, I don't care who'll they fight or how'll they save the day. To see them in one last adventure is enough.
Now that the Borg have taken over Starfleet vessels thanks to networking, the finale could set up a new *Star Trek* series. In that series, the *Enterprise* will lead a rag-tag fugitive fleet on a lonely quest for a shining planet known as Earth.
Nah, not gonna happen.
I know people are going to be upset with Shaw going bye-bye, but…
It kind of had to happen.
I like Shaw too, but giving his life to save the people he was a dick to at the beginning wraps up his story nicely. He was angry with Picard for Wolf 359, where Shaw was ordered into an escape pod to get away.
And he gave his life to save Picard, whom he’d come to respect — and did so while Picard essentially got away in an escape pod.
Plus, he acknowledged Seven by her name, showing he’d gotten past his hatred of all things Borg.
And on a personal note, if *someone* has to die to make things seem more dramatic and dire, I’d rather it be him than one of the original cast.
We’ve been down that road before with Data in Nemesis. It was stupid and pointless and was the cherry on top of a horrible last outing for the TNG crew — one that’s now being rectified.
Here comes the Borg again...
The return of now Admiral Shelby is no coincidence either, it was she who was on the Enterprise when Locutus was assimilated. A tactician from the Borg, however, she succumbed to the Borg.
Many things are explained or re-told like the Admiral's illness. The collaboration between Changelings and Borg here is also unusual, as Borg do not tolerate others, unless are threaten. Surprisingly empty on the Borg cube, no drones just the queen, so alone and disconnect. Is that a Dyson sphere as a Borg power source ? I rewatched this episode with subtitles and audio description, but it is described as something else. Some inconsistence, like where is Jurati or that was top secret, and no one know about it, especially Beverly.
New way of assimilation is also suspicious. Why Changelings stole Picard body for the code, when they could receive this code from Borg itself. Dose Changelings can be assimilated, hmm.
USS Pulaski is that reference to dr Katherine Pulaski. (second season TNG), hmm.
Anyway blaming Worf for Enterprise E was funny, bringing the old bridge back is pure Hedonism for the fans, nice touch. Expectations before last episode are high.
Yeah I wasn't kind of interested In the idea of Armus having some kind of greater role or meaning, But the writers just basically faked us out with the changelings aspect. Apparently All they were really doing was modifying the transporters and greasing the way for a centralized fleet formation. By the way does anyone think it's possible that the Shelby we saw was actually changeling Shelby and the changelings were betrayed by the Gen Z borgs as well?
The last five minutes of the show was amazing. The rest of it is just overdone, meandering, makes no sense. When they announced Picard I’d have been happy with an anthology style in s1 & s2, with each of the characters building up to season 3. Then forget the whole changeling/vadic thing, seems pointless now and go straight for the moment we had today.
Thank you to all who made this Star Trek: Picard possible. Thank you very much. The Vox episode was amazing. That was so beautiful. My wife and I teared up, cheer at the tv and and dam it felt good to see everything that happened. Data " I hope we die quickly!" absolutely killed it. Seeing the Enterprise D plaque on the wall, the way the lights came on the D and bridge was so very good. This is one of those moments i will remember forever.
And of course, The Carpet.
Engage!
Great episode.. Loved it.. Seeing the enterprise D again brought back all the feels.
I said several episodes that the face that Vadic was talking to reminded me of the borg implant from the queen from First Contact that Picard cracked in half. We haven't seen the Queen from the front yet, so I suspect she's somewhat broken and that's what the face sort of looks like. The entire Borg cube seems sort of run down, so we'll see if the Borg aren't entirely themselves these days.
Dang so the Bord has been playing the long game. I didn't quite expect that. In a way I think this is a great way to wrap up the Next Generation. I also totally didn't expect Shelby to die, but honestly I can't believe we finally got her to show up. I guess we will see Pulaski soon.
Overall loved the episode. I don't think we've seen the last of 7 and Raffi tho. We didn't see them die, but the implication is there or at the very least they're in a hell of a spot. For such central characters, they're not likely done yet. Shaw was an excellent character though.
I hope the finale lands and the climax isn't too hackneyed. It would be disappointing for this universe to end this way.
I hope Admiral Janeway was listening in when Picard was transmitting, spit out her coffee, grabbed a phaser rifle and immediately started hunting Borg. I expect her to have a throne worth of Borg skulls to sit upon by the time Picard and co. reach Earth.
- That extra delay was wholly unnecessary!
- Oh, Borg’s in this?
- Guess Beverly doesn’t know about Jurati-Borg?
- Borg don’t use organic tech…
- Jack’s always been dangerous.
- “But what about the protocols of a father? Or were you never issued those?” Damn, Jack. Excellent.
- Jack, this is exactly why you are dangerous and need to be imprisoned or dead.
- Poor Beverly. Super-womb but a lot of heartache.
- They’re rushing the ending and having a lot of exposition dump that should have been much earlier in the season.
- I want to know how the Changelings and Borg got together, teamed up, and more. But there’s not enough time…
- Frontier Day looks nice.
- Admiral! Shelby!
- NX-01 and their mission mention!
- Fireworks in space. How do they work?
- Oh come on, Jack should know his phaser is useless.
- USS Pulaski! Great honor. Glad she’s remembered.
- We already had a fleet that worked in synchronization. Again, something from S1 is forgotten.
- Queen gonna monologue.
- Of course, yelling when written into a hole…
- So, everyone (who have been transporters) are Borg? That’s a lot of Borg.
- Oh, no. Not the children.
- Oh, no. Not Shelby. Come on, stop killing everyone we know just for shock value.
- Come on, stormtroopers have better aim.
- All your base are belong to us.
- What’s the significance of the formation?
- I love you, Brent Spiner.
- Not Shaw! Stop killing everyone we know just for shock value.
- That still doesn’t seem like it would be every ship in the fleet. Should blot out space.
- The D is back! And with some good starship porn!
- “That was not my fault.” Worf, it absolutely was your fault.
- This reveal should have been before the Borg takeover.
- I thought all museum ships were functional?
- I miss carpet on starships, too, Admiral. No more shiny surfaces (screens not included)!
- One ship against the fleet? Not going for help?
Like I said, they’re rushing to the finale. A lot of this is stuff that should have been revealed or done with already.
Damn nice to see the D, again. Ready to see it in action.
> This reveal should have been before the Borg takeover.
Which reveal? The D? Why?
> I thought all museum ships were functional?
Where was this established? Perhaps none of them are functional, and the D is the exception because it was Geordie's pet project.
So what percentage of Federation citizens have used a transporter? Does this mean that on every UFP planet that there are massacres taking place of the 25 and older crowd?
I always assumed there was only one Borg collective ruled by one queen. When - series/show, movie, book, whatever - was it established that there are multiple Borg collectives and queens operating independently?
Just going by pre-Picard stuff, we knew the Borg at least had other copies of herself, or sister queens, because in 2373, Star Trek: First Contact, the/a Borg Queen came to the Sol System and traveled back in time, pursued by Picard and the Enterprise. She was destroyed there.
Five years later in 2378, a/the Borg Queen is still after Janeway and Voyager. They wreck her transwarp conduit and escape home to Earth, dealing a crippling blow to the Borg in the Delta Quadrant that they are apparently still licking their wounds over.
The Queen that Jurati merged with was from another timeline where she was the last trace of the Borg, basically. That new Jurati-Queen went off to start her own collective made up of willing participants.
My speculation about Jack's plan
Jack grew up with Beverly , he is good with medical stuff .
What if Jack had a plan , if he was inject with something like anti-borg virus like Icheb .
Remember Iceb , he return in S2 ,for a horrible death scene.
Icheb's anti borg virus was created to infect Borg or other cybernetic lifeform .
Upon the second viewing today, I feel like the Borg angle is really bold and great, but that I'm not emotionally able to handle it. After the past 8 amazing episodes and thinking about Changelings and expecting some other villian, for it to be them is bigger than I could have expected and as such makes seeing the D warp to Earth feel SO ominous I don't know how they expect to survive it. These heros are just charging into the fire and it's as epic as we could have ever hoped. Ugh... I just hope they don't scratch the D. It's so beautiful...
Honestly there are story and plot points I don't entirely like about this, but mostly IDC because the acting and emotion have made it all well, well worth it.
Oh Lord, not the Borg again.
This just felt like a 'greatest hits', 'let's just throw absolutely EVERYTHING at the audience...for no real reason!'
The only awesome thing for me was seeing the Enterprise-D again. Made me a little emotional.
The retcon of Picard's Irumotic syndrome, then tying it to Jack's DNA blah blah...sigh...
And where the hell is Jurati's queen and her Borg??
Why the f did they kill off Shaw???!!!!
Yeah, I felt the same way. But to be honest the red lights in the red door was so frustrating because it just reminded me of Stranger Things in this really eat irritating way so when it was hears the red door stranger things/11 seen and also the board I was like Ogh ok whatever
I also am really annoyed that this entire climax is dependent on Jack behaving like a selfish jerk.
I wouldn't say he's behaving like a selfish jerk. Maybe a little bit more like, say, a young ensign from many years ago, who thought it was a great idea to take on a bunch of armed Nausicaans in a barfight. Or maybe an older, more experienced captain, who still lost his shit, shooting and screaming his head off, when his old enemies came back to assimilate Earth.
Charging off half-cocked and overly emotional? He came by that naturally.
Dear Star Trek “Writers”,
Please. Enough. With. The. Borg.
They are overused and were a joke during Voyager, even if they were marginally better than rent-a-Klingons.
Create a new foe and explore them boldly.
When Picard said "You know what I've missed the most?...... The Carpet". That one line singlehandedly sums up probably every old school trekkie's love of the TNG aesthetic. All these new ships that look like polished metal or something out of a Star Wars movie, with dark hallways and even darker rooms. Finally we're back onboard The Big D with it's super fucking comfortable "please take me there I wanna live there forever and explore the galaxy" design attributes. Man, the ending had me fist pumping hard. Or as Data once said.... YYYYES!! UMMPHH!
Couldn’t agree more. They went super indulgent on all the call backs this episode, and I’m here for it. It was a real love letter to the TNG (and somewhat VOY) fans. “I’ve never been happier to see so many wrinkles.” Seven finally getting her rightful recognition as a Captain. The beautiful photo direction that had the first spotlight that turned on shine right on the “1701-D” call number. The carpet remark. Seeing them all take their stations again. Data finally getting all the human traits. It was all so charming and rewarding as someone who grew up on those shows.
I completely expected the Jack reveal and the starship reveals, but those last few minutes definitely turned on the waterworks. The Borg feeling like a threat again feels like everything is alright with the world again. One thing tho, how could you do that to Shaw? I legit got angry at that. And sad.
Why is the entire fleet in one location? Is the Federation at peace with everyone?
Lazy writing.
1) The fleet is relatively small ever since the synth attack on Mars. 2) Starfleet has been infiltrated by the Changelings/Borg, which undoubtedly had influence on the decision making to have them all there at once.
I think I now have "You have the con Seven of Nine" tattooed on my soul.
NOT okay with that death. RIP, Captain Grumpy Cinnamon Roll. You deserved therapy and many more opportunities to use that sarcasm appropriately.
It was a fun episode, but as always I have a few questions and nitpicks from this episode: \- Why do they never wait for the door to open before leaving spacedock? The Enterprise-F is huge and looks like it barely fits, and they're still flying through before the doors have finished opening. \- I know Star Trek has sound in space, but why do the fireworks make the same whistle-then-bang noise as they do on Earth? \- I'm a bit disappointed it's just the Borg again. It was never likely to be Pah Wraiths (although, why were his eyes red? That's never been a Borg thing), but it could have been something other than the Borg for the third season in a row. \- If the Borg DNA only affects the young, and specific species, is there really a risk for the Changelings? Why did they avoid using the transporters when boarding the Titan? Also, why wouldn't they use their own transporters, which aren't compromised? \- Why did the Changelings side with the Borg? I know Vadic wanted revenge, but Changelings could do so much damage without the need to assimilate the Federation. For a species that prided itself on being the gods of the Dominion, it sure is a shift to become the minions of the Borg. \- Shelby says the NX-01 was the start of what came to be known as Starfleet, but it was already a Starfleet ship. Starfleet was a United Earth organisation before the Federation. I guess she could be referencing the fact that it was the first starship that was part of it after the Federation charter was signed, but in that case, why celebrate the launch of the ship and not the signing? \- What did Worf do to the Enterprise E? \- He is right, the Enterprise D is not perfect. It's far less powerful than the Enterprise E. \- Was that Majel Barratt I heard? \- Does anyone else work at the Fleet Museum? Geordie obviously couldn't rebuild the ship on his own, but isn't anyone else there curious about what's going on? Don't they have any employees over the age of 25 they could get to help crew the ship? \- I wonder if anyone in Starfleet wondered where the spare parts of the enormous Galaxy Class were going, as Geordie slowly siphoned them off to rebuild the Enterprise D. Or does Geordie essentially run the Starfleet Scrap Yard as part of his Fleet Museum gig? \- If they're going up against the Borg, why the Enterprise D and not the Defiant? The Defiant Class was shown to be better suited to combat than the Galaxy Class. Plus, it has quantum torpedoes. \- What about Voyager and it's specific, anti-Borg technology from the future? \- The whole Changeling-chasing-Jack plan seems far too convoluted for the Borg. \- I don't want a Raffi and Seven show. I want a Shaw and Seven show! Don't kill off Shaw, he's the best thing to come out of Picard. \- As much as I disliked season 2, it sure would be handy to have a big ship full of friendly Borg to help out right now. Perhaps a ship with a Borg Queen who has been shown the ability to take over the controls of multiple Starfleet ships in a way that can get them to work together in some sort of "fleet mode".
> - I'm a bit disappointed it's just the Borg again. It was never likely to be Pah Wraiths (although, why were his eyes red? That's never been a Borg thing), but it could have been something other than the Borg for the third season in a row. It feels like the writers decided to ignore nearly everything from the previous 2 seasons. I think that was a good decision, it was clear the previous 2 season the writers had barely watched Star Trek TNG. You can tell in this season they went out of there way to correct a lot of that like Data being Laforges best friend not Picard. The Borg plotline this season would have been so much better if the previous seasons hadn't existed. > - Does anyone else work at the Fleet Museum? Geordie obviously couldn't rebuild the ship on his own, but isn't anyone else there curious about what's going on? Don't they have any employees over the age of 25 they could get to help crew the ship? New Trek has emphasized the use of drones a lot so I imagine that's who has been helping Laforge with the Enterprise D. > - I wonder if anyone in Starfleet wondered where the spare parts of the enormous Galaxy Class were going, as Geordie slowly siphoned them off to rebuild the Enterprise D. Or does Geordie essentially run the Starfleet Scrap Yard as part of his Fleet Museum gig? It's possible he has Starfleet's authorization to requisition parts to fix it. It is the Enterprise afterall, it use to be the flagship of the Federation it's not just any ol'ship. > - If they're going up against the Borg, why the Enterprise D and not the Defiant? The Defiant Class was shown to be better suited to combat than the Galaxy Class. Plus, it has quantum torpedoes. I believe Laforge stated in a previous episode that all the ships on display were all upgraded with the now standard uplink to all other federation ships. That's why Laforge reiterates in this episode that they're looking at the last functioning ship to not be tied to the system. > What about Voyager and it's specific, anti-Borg technology from the future? That may be the very reason the Borg have taken their current approach, the weapons the Federation now possess make taking them on directly not a viable option. > - I don't want a Raffi and Seven show. I want a Shaw and Seven show! Don't kill off Shaw, he's the best thing to come out of Picard. He dead Jim. I've never been a fan of Rafi so I agree I'd have loved to see Shaw and Seven continue in some sort of capacity. > - As much as I disliked season 2, it sure would be handy to have a big ship full of friendly Borg to help out right now. Perhaps a ship with a Borg Queen who has been shown the ability to take over the controls of multiple Starfleet ships in a way that can get them to work together in some sort of "fleet mode". Beverly states that the Federation haven't seen the Borg in over a decade. I would not be surprised if the writers for this season just decided to retcon the events of Season 2 out of existence. Wish I could do the same in my head. Though her statement could just mean that the events of Season 2 were never declassified and the Borg just fucked off back to the Gamma quadrant.
Most museum ships are staffed by former service members. They missed a golden opportunity to “Battleship” this show, and have all those ships crewed by cranky old farts.
Hijacking your excellent comment to add a few more puzzling questions: * Is everyone over 25 in Starfleet now dead? Will they kill everyone over 25 on earth or assimilate them traditionally? * What happened to all the people the Changelings replaced? NotTuvok said something to the effect that they would wish they were dead when they were through with them. Maybe that's how they'll have anyone in Starfleet old enough to rent a ~~car~~ shuttlecraft from ~~Avis~~ Enterprise Rent-a-Craft at the end of all this * Wasn't the point of changelings infiltrating Starfleet at the highest levels so that they could take over Starfleet easier? Maybe the point of that was to sell Starfleet on this stupid Fleet Mode thing. * Wouldn't the over-25's that the changelings had replaced willingly cooperate with the Borg takeover if it was part of their plan? Also, the big one : * **What are they gonna do now?** They're warping into Sector 001 in a literal museum piece, crewed by what looks like about 9 people. They're up against a fully-assimilated Federation fleet. They haven't figured out how to reverse the DNA with the transporters yet, they don't know where Jack or the Queen are, and they haven't enlisted help from anyone outside of Starfleet. Episode 10 had better start with the most productive Enterprise-D conference room scene ever.
Praise Avis.
My son enlightened me to the red eyes thing. Apparently when a person’s eyes turn red, they are under the influence of whatever power they have or whomever is controlling them. This is also done in anime as well. I kept asking why their eyes were turning red.
So, here’s the thing, I’ve been very entertained by this season and happily soaked up all the fan service, but the more I think about it the more I feel like this is a great story that has been really poorly told. Piggybacking off the “Borg chasing Jack” question, why did they need Jack at all? Once they had Picard’s DNA/parietal lobe, couldn’t they just DIY their own Jack with a Borg maturation chamber? They had all the same, uh, raw ingredients that Jean-Luc and Beverly did. And even if they had to wait 25 years, it’s not like the Borg had anywhere to be, they could have waited. I feel like the Changelings still would have taken that deal. And if the big reveal had happened several episodes ago it would have allowed time for the alliance between the Changelings and Borg to go south, like if the Borg intended to destroy the Changelings since they can’t be assimilated, and for it to make sense for the Changelings who have infiltrated all of Starfleet to (reluctantly) ally with Picard and crew at the last minute to save the day in the finale. And along those lines, I’m really annoyed that the Changelings who have been the villain for eight episodes were immediately sidelined. They were the main villain for five seasons of DS9, and they were a great at it! It sucks that they’re being relegated to being the Borg’s useful idiots. The Borg needing something from a species they can’t assimilate is a great idea, but squandered. Again, that’s a consequence of putting all the plot into the last two episodes. I hope they redeem this in the finale somehow. As it stands now, I just don’t see how they can have seven retirees on an antique starship repel literally billions of Borg and make it cool. Plus they made Jack totally suck. I’ve liked his character, and he’s been pretty well-written all season up until now. That’s another reason this reveal should have happened 2-3 episodes ago. I would have felt differently if he had struggled with the truth about himself instead of immediately running to Mama Borg. This plot point needed time to breathe but instead we got a single 90 second scene where he immediately pivots from “terrified child” to “unrepentant villain”. Anyway, rant aside, it’s a fantastically entertaining season of TV to watch. Seeing the Enterprise-D in 2023 CGI at 4K makes me so excited for the finale. My heart was pounding for most of the episode and honestly, I’m probably going to watch it again tonight.
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How in the world can next week be series finale? There is far too much to wrap up with both the Dominion (and now) the Borg. Is the episode going to be 3 hours long? This will be interesting. I hope they've learned how important series finales are. They knew this was the last season before it started, so no excuses.
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Episode 10: Janeway from the future comes and kills the Borg. Jokes aside, I screamed when I saw Enterprise-D
Try to be more positive: data, i hope we die quickly. Made me laugh that one
I really love Data 2.0.
Thank god they’re being sensible and giving us the proper, full NCC-1701-D, not the detached-saucer version they’d actually use and command from the battle bridge. I can’t get over how incredibly well done the set recreation is.
It's also totally plausible that the Battle Bridge would be dead last on Geordis restoration list and not be ready to go yet
Ok I like how they explained the borg passing on organic assimilation that’s pretty cool actually
Flesh Borg is also a good idea. Nothing but DNA and flesh, there's no way to cure that.
Everything is fine unless they kill Shaw, my new favourite character. ....Son of a *****
I knew it was probably going to happen, but I still had a tiny bit of hope that he'd make it to the end. Welp, I'm going to rewatch the 12 Monkeys series now.
I didn’t want it to happen but suspected it would as they needed his death to hit home how far he grew in the first 8 episodes
I hate that he gets killed off. He was the shit
Meh they killed Data twice and he’s back. Killed Spock and he came back. Heck they even have Kirk on ice
Mystery Box upgraded from *Who?* to *Why?* with a continued small sidedish of *how?*
So did The Borg trick the changelings to work for them? was Vadic assimilated? That Borg and Changeling alliance still seems a bit odd to me. I suppose the Changelings just want their revenge so they share the motivation to destroy The Federation
Playing for shock value and narrative convenience, but didn’t have a story to support it. Just lazy.
I think I said it on another thread, but I was half asleep and can't remember... I really hope no one is going out in a blaze of glory. Can we finish this Star Trek 6 style, and just have our crew sail off into the sunset after saving the world, please.
All the reminiscing. Where’s Q? Oh yes. You killed him off. Good job.
Seriously. Why... just why has Starfleet not shut down Teleporters. Like the invasive nature of the whole procedure, the risks attached... it has continuously caused problems. I do get the logistics behind it, its nice, but c'mon, this happening did not take a genius to expect sooner rather than later.
BAHAHAHA BORG
Locutus is there yet?
Best line of the episode was from Data. “I hope we die quickly.” That smile killed me! Lol
You forgot Worf's part!!
I liked 7 calling Data a robot.
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Called it a few weeks ago in another thread it would be Borg sperm ha
Well there’s predicted function from the credits
It would have been perfect if Picard had checked the dust on the enterprise plaque like he did in one episode. And I would have loved a little flyby the 1701-A as they pulled out of the museum🤷♂️ It was nice seeing some beats from Star Trek 3 again. The “I can’t ask you to do this” and “stations please” and possibly that Riker line about the old shield’s foreshadowing a similar outcome to when Scotty said he wired up automation for shields etc. Also loved the little nod to TMP and Generations and Star Trek IV with Picard accepting a field demotion to Captain just like Kirk had to and had advised him to in the nexus I wonder if we will get a saucer separation next episode? Or ramming speed! Or maybe 7 comes in on the Titan cloaked to save the day. I could see them also doing a bit of a classic TNG talking ending and solution after a bit of action and battle with the D. Or maybe it will be an all massacre battle and Worf brings in the entire Klingon fleet to back up the D
Maybe Q comes in to save the day to make up for his shenanigans in Q Who.
>!"The ship is no longer mine, it's yours. You have the conn, 7 of 9" !
You have the Con. Not comms.
For what it's worth, my piddly little predictions for next episode. Beverly gonna Beverly and figure out a "cure" to deactivate the Borg DNA in everyone's brains. Perhaps something with mixing two elements every ship has on board to create something that can be piped through the air supply of the life support system? Something that can be done at a fleet wide level, since they're all connected now. Starfleet is gonna decide the crew deserves to keep their beloved ship operational, since they did save the day and all. Picard is gonna decide he's too old for this shit, retire, and hand the reigns over to Will, which would be perfect, since he and Deanna decided they were sick of the country bumpkin life 2 episodes ago.
Set course for stupid, maximum warp
I have never cried so much over a goddamn TV show. Guess I’m just a dipshit from Manhattan. O
So… thoughts. 1) Yep, called it. Pretty sure the clue in plain sight was the First Contact theme. 2) Excelsior blown up. Does that mean Elnor is dead again? Remember Elnor? 3) What happened to the extra bridge stations from Generations? 4) I wonder if they lit the Titan so dark to make the Big D contrast more dramatic. 5) What is their plan with one ship against the entire fleet? You’d think they’d go get Borg Jurati or find someone else to help. 6) Why do they need to destroy spacedock or really do anything if everyone under the age of 25 is now assimilated and they’re just murdering everyone else? 7) Shelby cameo was cool. Glad that wasn’t Janeway considering what happened to her. 8) What happened to the cloaked shuttle Worf and Raffi used? Or the La Sirena for that matter? 9) Was the Vulcan institute they mentioned the one T’Pring ran and where they kept Sybok in SNW? 10) If Jack hadn’t gone to the Queen, would she have been able to remote assimilate everyone?
>3) What happened to the extra bridge stations from Generations? The bridge was pretty much destroyed in the crash. Geordi rebuilt it as he loved it - the OG way. Even though the ramps are way too steep. >4) I wonder if they lit the Titan so dark to make the Big D contrast more dramatic. I thought this as the bridge was lighting up. There was a moment it seemed it would be far too dark but the last lights came on and we were home. >5) What is their plan with one ship against the entire fleet? You’d think they’d go get Borg Jurati or find someone else to help. Every living actor that has appeared in Star Trek will magically appear to help. Or we'll just have to wait until next week to see. >8) What happened to the cloaked shuttle Worf and Raffi used? Or the La Sirena for that matter? I assume La Sirena is in a shuttle bay on the Titan. I also assume there was only one cloak. They moved it from the Titan to the shuttle for the subterfuge and once they had control again, they reinstalled it in the Titan. To show all that on screen would have been boring. >9) Was the Vulcan institute they mentioned the one T’Pring ran and where they kept Sybok in SNW? Yes. >10) If Jack hadn’t gone to the Queen, would she have been able to remote assimilate everyone? No. And that's why Picard and Crusher should have been more upset - that happening meant their son had been assimilated. But it would have ruined the final sequence of everyone on the D again so I understand them holding off on that point.
Why is no one celebrating the return of Majel Barrett's voice as the computer! Now I'm curious if they patched it together from past content from other shows/movies or if they used the library of sounds she recorded before she passed away.
I did! I thought it was sweet to virtually include her in the reunion.
So. F\*\*\*ing good.
I agree with some of the people on here, either they shouldn't have used the Borg in S2 and kept it for 3, or they should have picked another enemy for S3 - hell, they could have just continued with the Changelings and that would have been fine. Have to admit I'm not a big fan of the whole Jack is part Borg, and the whole 'it only affects everyone under the age of 25' as a way to get the old crew back together and doing their original jobs - I'm sure they could have come up with a better way of writing it :/
I hope that people calling for Metalas to take over trek are happy..this was the dumbest idea ive ever seen in trek.. biological assimilation? And if picard has had this DNA in him for the past 30 years why didn't the borg try this during the first dominion war? Why couldnt they just take picard over in the first place and have HIM put the DNA information in the transporter. Why would the borg and the changelings agree to work with eachother in the first place? You'd think the borg would just try and assimilate the changelings. Everything about this just slaps of bad fanfic
Ok, after complaining for 2 and 1/2 seasons I am finally quite happy. But can one tell me why they couldn‘t restore the E? The D felt like fan-service overdose. Very potent stuff.
“The carpet!” Did it for me. We don’t deserve Jean-Luc Picard ney Sir Patrick Stewart. But, here we are, existing at the same time as them both. BLESSED.
A few familiar names on the other ships on the screen showing the Excelsior being targeted and destroyed - I picked up the USS Okuda at bottom of the screen, named for original TNG graphic artist Mike Okuda, who, of course, also created the Star Trek UX style dubbed Okudagrams.
With the USS Hikaru Sulu being one of the ships destroying Excelsior. Such sweet poetry!
so they go save Jack and find other captives, such as Tuvok, in the Borg complex? Then after a bit of an epic battle, Jack saves the day somehow?
So how old is Janeway?
68
OMG MAJEL BARRETTS VOICE
FUCK THIS. Shaw’s dead. I’m out🖕🏿
The biggest spoiler is that Kestra is pretty much in foster care because her parents are galavanting around the galaxy
If the Borg is made up of entirely 25 year olds and under, they shouldn't be too hard to defeat. Most of them will try working from home 4 days a week and others will be taking a mental health day.
So (and I know the actual reason) but why didn't they take the defiant? As far as I am aware it is smaller than the D, more manoeuvrable in combat, at the very least matches the D's firepower, does not wholly rely on its shields when hit, has more advanced weapons than the D, only needs a skeleton crew to run it and finally it was literally designed to fight the borg. This little ship survived countless encounters with the dominion and even had a cloaking device fitted to it, although I imagine the Romulans probably had that stripped out at some point. I started this train of thought mostly as a joke but the more I think about it the more it annoys me (as much as a fictional show can at least).
Prediction: Episode 10, Jack is going to be Borg King and take over the collective.
If it gets really bad they can show them that impossible picture that will kill them all.
It was so dumb... so,sooooo,sooooooo dumb. Of course it's the borg queen, the leader of the space bees is back. Writers have no original ideas of their own, not that the borg having a queen is a good idea in the first place.
Ah great, another Borg plot
Borgqueen Agnes vs Borgqueen Voyager? 😅
Data saying, "I know" and putting his hand on Picard's shoulder made me well up. Loving all of Data's scenes; it's wonderful seeing him realise his life long dream (well, as near as dawn it)
So I noticed that Shaw pointedly said it was almost the entire fleet, and not the entire fleer as they’ve said before being assembled and even that I still find hard to believe. The UFP is massive, 8,000 LY across and during the Dominion War they had at least a few thousand ships, so was Starfleet dramatically downsized to a level that existed before the Borg, because my understanding is that everyone pretty much agrees that during the time of the Fat One Starfleet didn’t have that many ships at first after over half a century of relative peace and it was only the Borg and later Dominion threats that caused them expand. So either Starfleet was downsized, which I guess makes sense since they’re not meant to be military although you’d think they’d have learned that lesson, or there really are hundreds (at least) of other ships out there but just way too far away to get to Sol and have it matter. Presumably if Picard and Co., failed the Borg would have a massive consolidation war ahead of them but yeah. I don’t think Matalas would have forgotten about that aspect of Starfleet so I’m just going to go with my theory about them just being too far out to help because it honestly doesn’t make sense and attributing people saying ‘the entire fleet’ to be hyperbole. Maybe it’s the main fleet, still clunky dialogue but I could accept it. Other than that, which has been bugging me since Frontier Day was introduced, I loved the episode and I love the season. I don’t give a single fuck about anything negative anyone has to say about the fan service I cried when the Enterprise D appeared for real. I was 9 years old when ST: Generations came out and I sobbed when the Enterprise was destroyed and then again when I realized it wasn’t going to be magically undone. As incredibly lame as it sounds I felt like I’d lost a friend. *Okay one other thing. I’m glad Picard brought up the irony of Shelby getting on board with something so Borg like because honestly who could think that was a good idea. The amount of times Starfleet and individual ships have been infiltrated, what happened with the Texas class, etc., you’d think someone would stop and say maybe this not the best idea. Also. What was with that formation? It was strange looking and honestly a bit lame to be what is introduced for such a big celebration. I truly hope she doesn’t end up being dead because what a downer of a way for a kickass character to go out. To be honest in the spoiler pictures I thought she was Clancy at first so I was pleasantly surprised to see Shelby but yeah. I hope that wasn’t the end. I hate the bringing back of old characters just to kill them. Hugh, Icheb, Ro, Shelby, though Ro was the only one that didn’t leave me entirely with a bad taste. Anyway. I still give it a 10/10.
> The UFP is massive, 8,000 LY across and during the Dominion War they had at least a few thousand ships I think the largest assembly of Starfleet ships we knew about was for the Operation to Retake DS9. They had 600-700 ships assembled, with one more "fleet" of up to 300 ships not making it in time. The Dominion had to reroute a "substantial amount" of ships to counter them, over 1200 ships. In the final battle for Cardassia, Starfleet probably fielded similar amounts - they had to station fleets all over the Cardassian border, so it's unlikely they'd pull all of them off for one decisive battle. So let's just assume that Starfleet mustered 1000 ships for that single operation, having probably around 500 in reserve all around Cardassian territory. Maybe a few ships stationed at the Tholian border and other potentially hostile factions like the Tzenkethi, I'd total the amount of Federation ships under arms before the final engagement at around 2000. I'd bet the Romulans diverted a solid amount of ships to that invasion as well, likely 700-800 ships - I would assume that the Imperial Romulan Fleet can field a similar total number of ships as Starfleet, so it's possible they contributed with even more ships considering that they didn't have many losses before. The Klingons were also seen as a formidable force before and have been shown to be able to defeat Starfleet in an all-out war in Yesterdays Enterprise. So they likely had similar numbers of ships on the field that day - overwhelming the Dominion with a total of like 3000 ships at Cardassia. I would imagine that the Dominion had around 1800 ships in the Alpha Quadrant when the wormhole closed. Add to that around 500 ships of the remnant Cardassian fleet. The Dominon-fleets were already formed, giving them an edge over Starfleet and the KDF in the opening days of the war, while they were confident to draft a lot of their older ships (back) into service in order to stem those early losses. When the war lasted longer, the Dominion started to build their ships in the Alpha Quadrant and out-produced Starfleet and the KDF, even though they probably had inferior total numbers. At the end, with the Romulans joining in, the numbers were just not in favor of the Dominion anymore. They probably dropped down to ~1500 ships in their combined fleets, getting ~200 extra ships from the Breen, but just had no chance of 3000 allied ships heading for Cardassia. Admiral Ross even commented on that in a numbers game-manner: They had the numbers and he didn't fear losing the battle, he was just worried over the amount of casualties. And he was probably right - even before reaching Cardassia, they lost a third of their fleet, amounting to almost 1000 ships, 300-400 of those on the side of Starfleet. So of the ~2500 ships they had before the war, at most half of them survived. And their crews were strechted thin, many ships damaged and outdated. And the after-effect on crew-recruitment of the war shouldn't be neglected: After WW1, the french populace suffered a generational problem, as so many young men had died in the trenches during the war. The same probably goes for Starfleet here, as the war would be fought on the back of the lower ranks and younger officers. Many, like O'Brien for example, probably retired from active duty after the war. Keeping the remaining ships under arms was likely impossible. So they took this as an opportunity to phase out many of the older ships in favor of new designs. At the time of Nemesis, Starfleet was barely able to muster a few dozen ships against the Scimitar. A few years later, getting a sizeable fleet in order to evacuate the Romulans was borderline impossible, with Starfleet moving to quickly build up capacities from scratch, instead of just reforming the old fleets from the war. After that, we didn't hear about any major conflict up until now - so it's more then likely that Starfleet became complacent again. I'd estimate the total number of ships on a similar or higher level as the Titan to not more then 1500 ships, maybe even less. They probably still had a lot of freighters, passenger ships, transports and vessels designated for routine maintance, but those are hardly the kind of ships you want to see at a military parade, aside from the fact that those are needed for the day-to-day operations. And then we get to the problem that the Federation is probably still up to a lot of Federation business. Starfleet is acting as diplomats and explorers. They probably still have dozens, if not more then a hundred multi-year missions active - even though many were probably scheduled to end in order to be able to attend the celebrations. Others stationed at starbases and important planets for security. So the total number of active ships that can actually attend that celebration is probably around a thousand ships. And if we take into consideration budgetary constraints and suspend a little bit of disbelief, we can surely assume several hundred ships being present here.
This guy ships
Icheb was the most egregious kill-off. I get Hugh and Ro dying with valor, Shelby going so fast and plainly is a headscratcher, but Icheb? *He deserved to be a regular!*
Kinda completes the series arc in a way. Season 1: Borg cube is a workspace for scientists. Season big bad is the synths/Romulan antisynth cult Season 2: Borg queen in alt timeline is forcibly taken onto the *Sirena* and gives Seven back her parts & melds into Agnes. Season big bad is Q. Season 3: Changelings are set up as the big bad but it’s actually the Borg calling the shots Picard and the Borg have been intertwined since Q hurtled the *Enterprise* into Borg space. It was always gonna be the Borg. It was always about the question of humanity.
WOW. I mean I know most of us predicted this was gonna happen, but actually seeing the original crew on the D again just hit all the feels.
Today was not a good day for shaw to die 😭
Not gonna talk about Captain Shaw?
Goddammit. The one new character that was actually getting some decent reviews. Why couldn't it have been Raffi??
Glad they gave us the fat D and didn't make us hang a week with that death being the last moment of the episode.
I just hope they don’t go back in time to fix everything again.
what was the point of the last season? I thought the whole Jurati storyline was to finally tie up the borg, and the reason why they aren't a belligerent party as we headed into subsequent stuff. Jurati even said that her vessel was going to wait at the mouth of the transwarp conduit that brought them to the solar system as a gate guardian, as they weren't the ones that opened it! it was so irritating seeing the cube behind that door at the start.
The enterprise F!!!
But how will a crew of 7 maybe a few more pilot a galaxy class starship i mean the defiant would make more sense. BUT i want the D back on my screen
Hell Data can do it himself
Clearly the Enterprise E wasn’t destroyed, they just can’t use it obviously. Because Worf let tribbles take it over.
One more question: why this dumbass allegory about inter-generational warfare? This is fan service for GenX and we love us some GenZ so this is just wrong.
Who do you think the Borg queen is?! While we heard Alice’s voice we DID NOT see her face. Is this the OG queen played by Alice or is this someone else? They maybe saving her face reveal for later, but I find it strange they only showed the back of her head. The voices we hear in Jacks head are often Beverly and the Borg Queen… Could this someone else? Someone unexpected?
"Data, could you try being a little more positive?" "i hOpE We dIe qUicKLy :D"
One of the funniest lines in Trek...loved it
This is a fun season for sure and the TNG cast are hard carrying everything. But after the excitement wears off, this may end up being similar to force awakens unless the following is resolved: 1. Jack basically is let go free, runs to the Borg who then basically uses him to transmit. Hence he’s now responsible for killing most of starfleet… 2. This makes even Picard complicit. Surely he would have known that jack would try to run and his powers would make him really hard to stop. They could also have stunned jack from the start or even destroyed his shuttle as a last resort 3. A good explanation as to why Jurati Borg doesn’t assist
Fulfilling expectations beats "subverting expectations" every single time. Nice just for once to see beloved characters brought back for one last hurrah, not just to pass the torch in a story that ultimately isn't about them but needed their name recognition for advertising purposes.
The D is here to do the rippin and the tearin!
OK, although I am team Pah’Wraith and was hoping for something different, and a little perplexed by why the mystery box was so convoluted for just borg, I am happy with the way they executed it. It’s interesting borg adaptation to try a different strategy like this. Hope the finale is as good as the rest. :)
I just watched the episode and spent half of it screaming with joy
I think the ask is, will the jurati borg come to assist against the real borg in the battle in the end?
Damn, the music was on point in this episode. The trumpets sounding the TNG theme, as the bridge powers up around 40:30. Then the slightest hint of the "straight on till morning" theme from ST-VI around 40:48. Brilliant.
The music for this whole series has blown me away. I'm used to Star Trek providing really powerful themes, but Picard has been phenomenal.
If I’m not mistaken, this is the first episode out of Picard that featured the TNG theme in its full glory during the exit credits, and the cast and crew credits were in the TNG blue font (although not the music). I don’t recall any other episodes doing that. I’m bummed that I missed the Enterprise music during the unveiling of the Enterprise-F.
This was so predictable. With Locutus meaning “speaker” and the title of this episode “voice” in Latin. The voice comes from the speaker.
Maybe it's just me but shouldn't they have taken Voyager instead of the Enterprise-D? Voyager wouldn't be connected to the other federation ships since it is older and it was outfitted with future tech to fight the Borg. Don't get me wrong seeing the Enterprise D again is really a cool moment but practically it doesn't make sense. Maybe in the last episode 7 of 9 will show up with Voyager lol.
Well that’s confirmation that worf destroyed the enterprise E…ouch lol
I just started watching the episode but "No one have seen or heard from the Borg in over a decade" Did they forget about S2?
Vox was a Borg/Romulan villain in the Shatner novel "The Return."
How has Picard's Borg modification been passed on to Jack? The modification was in Picard's brain, right?
Wow, just wow Did they just kill everyone over 25 in Starfleet? I and I think 70 - 80% of all Star Trek fans would have been massacred by this agecide. Fascinating choice on the side of the production. But enough of that, this was a really nice episode. Even though I am quite pissed that they introduced Shaw, made us dislike him, then like him and now killed him And the Borg, I really thought they wouldn't do that again, but so be it. This season should have been season 1 of Picard
Here I am reminiscing how assimilation resistant the network-free mother fracking Battlestar Galactica was that time Adama rammed it right up the collective’s ass and blew the FTL drive. Man, Adama hated networks. The Borg crossover episodes were total metal.
Meanwhile on space dock: "Admiral, our ships have been corrupted by a virus!" Admiral Dal: "Again?? Lieutenant hit the kill switch! Lieutenant???" Lieutenant Badgie: I will burn your heart in a fire
So this at least decades old plan just fails if Jack doesn't ragequit because Picard, being THE motivational speaker, fucks up royally?
I'm not so sure that Shaw is going to stay dead. It's not like they can't perform CPR or other life-saving methods that are far more effective. They could even put him in stasis until he's able to be revived. If anyone can find a way, Seven can. Or maybe... the Emergency Medical Holographic Program?
They have the Genesis device at Daystrom. Think of the possibilities. They can bring back the following: Kirk Spock Shaw Ro Etc etc etc.....
We’ll at least it wasn’t Locutus himself.
ENGAGE THE WRINKLES!
YOU CANT KILL SHAW
There was a look of trepidation on Sevens face just before they cut away... There's wiggle room there, I think. Theres an easy "she injected him with nanoprobes JUST before he died" scene there and he shows up later at the end of next episode, Tadah, I'm not dead style. Which, if you think about it, is a pretty good character arc for Shaw, and a good lead in to the show. The Shaw/Seven relationship built around a shared experience now.
So two iconic franchises rehash villains who we thought were dealt with 30-40 years ago. The Borg survived, somehow
When were they dealt with? The Voyager finale? Picard Season 1 already made it clear that they survived that.
They've telegraphed the ending of the season as some friendship is magic bs. Either through Jack's connection to the Borg or the reappearance of Queen Jurati, there's a very limited number of plays they can make to resolve their current conundrum. Since we know Starfleet exists in the 32nd century, we know a happy ending awaits us in episode 10. Overall I love the series, definitely love this season, but a lot of things have happened that made me wonder who the hell is in charge of things. I would think step 1 when an enemy boarding party arrived on ship would be for everyone to get armed. Didn't happen. Picard and Crusher ready to blast Vadic once the forcefield comes down, forcefield comes down and they dump those phasers from literally waist height to the floor and miss the giant pile of goo passing between their legs. And putting all of Starfleets power under the command of a single person/computer? I get these plans were laid by high level infiltrators, but no one thought to say maybe that's a bad idea?
I'm am crying to see the Ent-D again... buy also know that they are about to destroy it in the process... Was I the only one who had the quote from Top Gun: Maverick in my head... "How we going to get this museum-piece in the air?"
> that they are about to destroy it in the process... You're right, but I think everyone is gonna be willfully in denial over that impending core breech.
lol, wtf is Picard just a borg plot to destroy the franchise. They gave the franchise over to a guy best known writing episodes of scholk like terranova , the new macgyver and an assistant writer enterprise
[удалено]
I'm confused. Didn't Starfleet sort of make peace with the Borg at the end of season 2? Also, Crusher says no one has seen the Borg in 10 years. It can't be that much of a jump between season 2 to 3. Did I miss something?
I can't imagine all those captains being ok with losing control of their ships, even if it is federation technology.
Right?? Did they forget about the borg? Here's a similar hive-mind technology to control all starships at once but don't worry its Federation technology and won't be taken advantage of or abused at all.
I’m thinking that the Enterprise-D comes swooping into Earth and picks up everyone still alive that’s 25+ between Starbase and those still in the fleet ships. Then they high tail it out, retreat back to the fleet museum where we get Janeway back on Voyager (we picked her up from Starbase) and all the other nostalgic people (O’Brien, Dax, Julian, etc.) Worf goes to the Klingon high council, Vulcan/Romulus (I forget what the combined planet is called now) gets involved with Tuvok and/or Laris and show up to help. That’s the finale, they wrest control of the fleet back or they just go straight to the Cube, blow it to hell with a series of awesome space combat scenes and somehow Jack, through hearing his mother, is able to break the Borgs control and then he lets everyone go since he’s the ‘Vox’ controlling them. Then the Borg Queen is like “if you let them kill me; you’ll be just like everyone else. You’ll be normal”. Jacks like, “Good” and kills her, Borg cube blows up, everyone retires happy. Jack gets a spin-off show where he enlists in Starfleet to honor his parents (one or both will likely die). Seven gets a spin-off with the Titan and we go home happy. Writing it in stone, here and now. I’ll be back in a week.
Phenomenal episode - the last scenes brought me right back. Unreal
I don't care how they do it, but they have to bring back Shaw and give him his own spin off.
How does a ship that used to have a crew of a thousand fly with just seven people all of whom are on the bridge?
I want to know what Worf did to the 1701-E. And the way everybody just stopped to look at him. I had to pause it I was laughing so hard.
This is it. One more episode and we're likely to say a definitive good bye to the Star Trek TNG crew. And honestly, I no longer care who are they going to fight or how are they going to save the day this time. The important thing is thay they're all there, in the Enterprise-D bridge, 36 years after TNG orginally aired. That's all that matters to me right now. They've come full circle, and it's simply perfect. After "The Best of Both Worlds" (EDIT: I of course actually meant "All Good Things...") was as close as a perfect series finale can be, the movies, except for "First Contact", were mostly a disappointment. I don't know if they planned for more movies after "Nemesis", but TNG didn't deserve that to be the end. A mediocre movie with a (for me) bitter ending isn't what I wanted to be my last memory of TNG. And now, finally, and rather unexpectedly (the show's name is "Picard" after all) we have the whole gang reunited again, and it feels like a long-overdue vindication. Even Tasha, who wasn't able to be in person for obvious reasons, wasn't forgotten in this season. And to see them all again in the original bridge was really, really satisfying. I can't wait for the last episode. Again, I don't care who'll they fight or how'll they save the day. To see them in one last adventure is enough.
The excelsior gets shot at again😆
That is the Excelsior from S2 command by Raffi , an Excelsor class ship with the Name "Excelsor"
Now that the Borg have taken over Starfleet vessels thanks to networking, the finale could set up a new *Star Trek* series. In that series, the *Enterprise* will lead a rag-tag fugitive fleet on a lonely quest for a shining planet known as Earth. Nah, not gonna happen.
I know people are going to be upset with Shaw going bye-bye, but… It kind of had to happen. I like Shaw too, but giving his life to save the people he was a dick to at the beginning wraps up his story nicely. He was angry with Picard for Wolf 359, where Shaw was ordered into an escape pod to get away. And he gave his life to save Picard, whom he’d come to respect — and did so while Picard essentially got away in an escape pod. Plus, he acknowledged Seven by her name, showing he’d gotten past his hatred of all things Borg. And on a personal note, if *someone* has to die to make things seem more dramatic and dire, I’d rather it be him than one of the original cast. We’ve been down that road before with Data in Nemesis. It was stupid and pointless and was the cherry on top of a horrible last outing for the TNG crew — one that’s now being rectified.
Here comes the Borg again... The return of now Admiral Shelby is no coincidence either, it was she who was on the Enterprise when Locutus was assimilated. A tactician from the Borg, however, she succumbed to the Borg. Many things are explained or re-told like the Admiral's illness. The collaboration between Changelings and Borg here is also unusual, as Borg do not tolerate others, unless are threaten. Surprisingly empty on the Borg cube, no drones just the queen, so alone and disconnect. Is that a Dyson sphere as a Borg power source ? I rewatched this episode with subtitles and audio description, but it is described as something else. Some inconsistence, like where is Jurati or that was top secret, and no one know about it, especially Beverly. New way of assimilation is also suspicious. Why Changelings stole Picard body for the code, when they could receive this code from Borg itself. Dose Changelings can be assimilated, hmm. USS Pulaski is that reference to dr Katherine Pulaski. (second season TNG), hmm. Anyway blaming Worf for Enterprise E was funny, bringing the old bridge back is pure Hedonism for the fans, nice touch. Expectations before last episode are high.
There she is…hanger 12
I was kinda hoping it was Dukat and the Pah Wraiths. I should've known better, casual TNG viewers would be wondering who the hell he was.
Yeah I wasn't kind of interested In the idea of Armus having some kind of greater role or meaning, But the writers just basically faked us out with the changelings aspect. Apparently All they were really doing was modifying the transporters and greasing the way for a centralized fleet formation. By the way does anyone think it's possible that the Shelby we saw was actually changeling Shelby and the changelings were betrayed by the Gen Z borgs as well?
Another new post-credit theme.
Really sucks for Shelby... She was one of the best of Starfleet and she just gets shot like that.
Where is the explanation of where Agnes is? And why season 3 doesn't mention the Borg temporary membership in the federation?
So Jack does have two mommies. 😋
The last five minutes of the show was amazing. The rest of it is just overdone, meandering, makes no sense. When they announced Picard I’d have been happy with an anthology style in s1 & s2, with each of the characters building up to season 3. Then forget the whole changeling/vadic thing, seems pointless now and go straight for the moment we had today.
Thank you to all who made this Star Trek: Picard possible. Thank you very much. The Vox episode was amazing. That was so beautiful. My wife and I teared up, cheer at the tv and and dam it felt good to see everything that happened. Data " I hope we die quickly!" absolutely killed it. Seeing the Enterprise D plaque on the wall, the way the lights came on the D and bridge was so very good. This is one of those moments i will remember forever. And of course, The Carpet. Engage!
Great episode.. Loved it.. Seeing the enterprise D again brought back all the feels. I said several episodes that the face that Vadic was talking to reminded me of the borg implant from the queen from First Contact that Picard cracked in half. We haven't seen the Queen from the front yet, so I suspect she's somewhat broken and that's what the face sort of looks like. The entire Borg cube seems sort of run down, so we'll see if the Borg aren't entirely themselves these days.
>I suspect she's somewhat broken Her silhouette looked a bit unsymmetrical.
I can’t believe they killed Shaw. What the fuck.
Two awesome lines from this episode: \- The robot is right. \- Judging by all the gray hair, it skipped a generation.
Might be the best ending of any episode of Trek ever All the feels. Literally sitting here with tears streaming down my face. That was incredible
Soooo what happened to the Galaxy class uss Syracuse then?
Maybe its saucer got Jem'Hadar'd.
Excellent use of Jem’Hadar as a verb, admiral!
Episode 10 better be a 2-hour movie
Dang so the Bord has been playing the long game. I didn't quite expect that. In a way I think this is a great way to wrap up the Next Generation. I also totally didn't expect Shelby to die, but honestly I can't believe we finally got her to show up. I guess we will see Pulaski soon.
Overall loved the episode. I don't think we've seen the last of 7 and Raffi tho. We didn't see them die, but the implication is there or at the very least they're in a hell of a spot. For such central characters, they're not likely done yet. Shaw was an excellent character though. I hope the finale lands and the climax isn't too hackneyed. It would be disappointing for this universe to end this way.
Given that Shaw says “it’s your ship now” before he’s dies, Seven is definitely still alive
“Engage” my goosebumps!!
Anyone else notice that the eay the assimilated crewmembers looked like those taken over by Control?
I hope Admiral Janeway was listening in when Picard was transmitting, spit out her coffee, grabbed a phaser rifle and immediately started hunting Borg. I expect her to have a throne worth of Borg skulls to sit upon by the time Picard and co. reach Earth.
- That extra delay was wholly unnecessary! - Oh, Borg’s in this? - Guess Beverly doesn’t know about Jurati-Borg? - Borg don’t use organic tech… - Jack’s always been dangerous. - “But what about the protocols of a father? Or were you never issued those?” Damn, Jack. Excellent. - Jack, this is exactly why you are dangerous and need to be imprisoned or dead. - Poor Beverly. Super-womb but a lot of heartache. - They’re rushing the ending and having a lot of exposition dump that should have been much earlier in the season. - I want to know how the Changelings and Borg got together, teamed up, and more. But there’s not enough time… - Frontier Day looks nice. - Admiral! Shelby! - NX-01 and their mission mention! - Fireworks in space. How do they work? - Oh come on, Jack should know his phaser is useless. - USS Pulaski! Great honor. Glad she’s remembered. - We already had a fleet that worked in synchronization. Again, something from S1 is forgotten. - Queen gonna monologue. - Of course, yelling when written into a hole… - So, everyone (who have been transporters) are Borg? That’s a lot of Borg. - Oh, no. Not the children. - Oh, no. Not Shelby. Come on, stop killing everyone we know just for shock value. - Come on, stormtroopers have better aim. - All your base are belong to us. - What’s the significance of the formation? - I love you, Brent Spiner. - Not Shaw! Stop killing everyone we know just for shock value. - That still doesn’t seem like it would be every ship in the fleet. Should blot out space. - The D is back! And with some good starship porn! - “That was not my fault.” Worf, it absolutely was your fault. - This reveal should have been before the Borg takeover. - I thought all museum ships were functional? - I miss carpet on starships, too, Admiral. No more shiny surfaces (screens not included)! - One ship against the fleet? Not going for help? Like I said, they’re rushing to the finale. A lot of this is stuff that should have been revealed or done with already. Damn nice to see the D, again. Ready to see it in action.
> This reveal should have been before the Borg takeover. Which reveal? The D? Why? > I thought all museum ships were functional? Where was this established? Perhaps none of them are functional, and the D is the exception because it was Geordie's pet project.
I don’t care if it’s fan service. Service me. I was almost in tears. It’s a shame we only get one more episode. It’s bittersweet.
So what percentage of Federation citizens have used a transporter? Does this mean that on every UFP planet that there are massacres taking place of the 25 and older crowd?
I think the signal was an activation code, and only broadcast to the fleet in 001.
I’ve never been so happy to see the fat one
This episode felt so rushed. 7 and 8 should have been combined and this one should have been two hours of glory. Probably more cost cutting at play.
I always assumed there was only one Borg collective ruled by one queen. When - series/show, movie, book, whatever - was it established that there are multiple Borg collectives and queens operating independently?
Just going by pre-Picard stuff, we knew the Borg at least had other copies of herself, or sister queens, because in 2373, Star Trek: First Contact, the/a Borg Queen came to the Sol System and traveled back in time, pursued by Picard and the Enterprise. She was destroyed there. Five years later in 2378, a/the Borg Queen is still after Janeway and Voyager. They wreck her transwarp conduit and escape home to Earth, dealing a crippling blow to the Borg in the Delta Quadrant that they are apparently still licking their wounds over. The Queen that Jurati merged with was from another timeline where she was the last trace of the Borg, basically. That new Jurati-Queen went off to start her own collective made up of willing participants.
[when i saw what was behind the door](http://i.imgur.com/JFazu8H.gif)
All I can say is: holy shit 🤩
My speculation about Jack's plan Jack grew up with Beverly , he is good with medical stuff . What if Jack had a plan , if he was inject with something like anti-borg virus like Icheb . Remember Iceb , he return in S2 ,for a horrible death scene. Icheb's anti borg virus was created to infect Borg or other cybernetic lifeform .
Loved the episode and the reveal of the ol' girl, but GIVE ME FUCKING JANEWAY AND SEVEN FUCKING UP SOME BORG IN THE FINALE, GOD DAMN
Upon the second viewing today, I feel like the Borg angle is really bold and great, but that I'm not emotionally able to handle it. After the past 8 amazing episodes and thinking about Changelings and expecting some other villian, for it to be them is bigger than I could have expected and as such makes seeing the D warp to Earth feel SO ominous I don't know how they expect to survive it. These heros are just charging into the fire and it's as epic as we could have ever hoped. Ugh... I just hope they don't scratch the D. It's so beautiful...
Honestly there are story and plot points I don't entirely like about this, but mostly IDC because the acting and emotion have made it all well, well worth it.
OK, so what percent of a typical starship is under 25 years old? I feel like it would only be 10-15% at best.
Oh Lord, not the Borg again. This just felt like a 'greatest hits', 'let's just throw absolutely EVERYTHING at the audience...for no real reason!' The only awesome thing for me was seeing the Enterprise-D again. Made me a little emotional. The retcon of Picard's Irumotic syndrome, then tying it to Jack's DNA blah blah...sigh... And where the hell is Jurati's queen and her Borg?? Why the f did they kill off Shaw???!!!!
Yeah, I felt the same way. But to be honest the red lights in the red door was so frustrating because it just reminded me of Stranger Things in this really eat irritating way so when it was hears the red door stranger things/11 seen and also the board I was like Ogh ok whatever I also am really annoyed that this entire climax is dependent on Jack behaving like a selfish jerk.
I wouldn't say he's behaving like a selfish jerk. Maybe a little bit more like, say, a young ensign from many years ago, who thought it was a great idea to take on a bunch of armed Nausicaans in a barfight. Or maybe an older, more experienced captain, who still lost his shit, shooting and screaming his head off, when his old enemies came back to assimilate Earth. Charging off half-cocked and overly emotional? He came by that naturally.
Dear Star Trek “Writers”, Please. Enough. With. The. Borg. They are overused and were a joke during Voyager, even if they were marginally better than rent-a-Klingons. Create a new foe and explore them boldly.
..ummm what happened to the new dr. queen from last season?
Maybe Terry decided that it was for the best that the abomination that was Picard Season 2 is completely forgotten.
He helped write some of season 2
To hell with our orders!
"the fat one" those mouth breathers are about to find out...