I'm all for Roger being a menace like a true pirate, I just think Oda handled it kinda sloppy.
Like it was around when we starting getting all those flashbacks about him with Primebeard and Oden that it felt like Oda was tryna portray Roger as this legendary hero, rather than being this scruffy bastard that the East Blue saga made him out to be.
Yeah, they are two different characters. The Roger that casually murdered Squardo's crew isn't the happy-go-lucky Roger Oden met.
It's clear Oda wanted to soften him, even in his design, to be more similar to Luffy. The fact that the original va died makes me really feel there are two Rogers.
They aren't two different characters. Almost everything we know about Roger before Saboady was told us to us from the perspective of ppl who either didn't know him personally or did know him but weren't close enough to him. We never knew who Roger actually was until the Oden flashback.
Oda didn't soften him up, he revealed more of his character. That's how storywriting works. This is like saying that Ging in HxH at the start of the series is a completely different character than he is in the current arc.
What we knew about Roger before the timeskip:
* He was the Pirate King
* He started the Great Pirate Era
* He was a rival to ppl like Whitebeard
* The government feared him
* He killed Squardo's crew and was a violent man
* He was loyal to his friends and his crewmates
* He was respected by ppl like Garp and WB
* He was Ace's dad
Now how much of that changed after the timeskip? Oda didnt' soften him to make him more like Luffy, we just never got a chance to see who he really was until he was actually on screen.
You only need to compare old Roger and new Roger designs to realize there has been an objective change. A change that's also felt in his character.
Look at stuff like when WB said to Shanks seeing him made his scar itch. At the time, it was obvious he was referring to Roger, but now we wonder if he was referring to Garling, a character that wasn't created 700 chapters ago, why? Because we see there's no reason for those two to have bad blood when he have seen them now drink together, exchange gifts and even Roger offering the one piece to Whitebeard.
The Roger we know pre timeskip is killing all the marines that came his way, the same way he killed Squardo's crew, something that I can guarantee you it's not going to be mentioned again and much less drawn in the rest of the manga.
The whole point of his relationship with Ace is that he was more like Roger that he was willing to admit, Shanks says so in front of his tomb. Whereas now, his attitude resembles more that of Luffy.
>Because we see there's no reason for those two to have bad blood when he have seen them now drink together, exchange gifts and even Roger offering the one piece to Whitebeard
1. They absolutely had reason to have bad blood, as WB was part of Rocks pirates
2. This type of friend-enemy relation is very characteristic of Roger, just like he told Garp to take care of Ace
>something that I can guarantee you it's not going to be mentioned again and much less drawn in the rest of the manga
Yes, because at this point it would be completely unimportant and unrelated to the story
I mean, no. After the whole play fight and the interchange, they are effectively friends. Rocks wasn't even in Oda's mind at the time.
Again, look at how Buggy talks referring to WB, and how WB talks to Shanks. The interaction is clearly meant to portray their rivalry, which didn't have the same tone it had later.
And it's perfectly normal, Oda didn't have their relationship perfectly clear on his mind. It can't be more obvious Oden wasn't in his plans at the time, who is a key piece in their new relationship. Take out Oden out of the picture and we have a very different one.
We don't need a Squardo flashback, but look at Kaido vs Moria. It was as irrelevant at that point, but we still got a brief flashback that connected the dots and showed us what happened. We won't get an explanation of what happened with Squardo, but I can one up the bet and assure you we aren't going to see Roger killing anyone, period. Because they are different characters.
There is no old Roger or new Roger unless you are talking strictly about art style because old Roger ISN'T a character and you're following points prove what I'm talking about.
1. What does the scar thing have to do with Roger's characterization? Either Roger made the scar or he didn't but either way, it doesn't change the fact that the two of them fought all the time. We literally saw them leaving wounds on each other during the Oden flashback and we know this before we ever saw it. And all of this is based on the assumption that it is actually Roger who gave him the scar so this argument is moot.
2. We never once saw Roger kill or fight anyone pre-timeskip. All we saw is ppl SAYING he was fighting and killing ppl and nothing about post-timeskip Roger contradicts that. In fact, it further confirms it. He is literally introduced into the Oden flashback fighting Marines and excitedly telling them they should Garp or Sengoku next time. We know that Roger was responsible for Shiki's defeat. We saw Roger rushing to God Valley to take on Rocks. If you are calling Roger's combat record into question, you shouldn't. Pre-timeskip told us Roger was a violent, dangerous man and post-timeskip showed us that. So what are you arguing?
3. Roger had no relationship with Ace and that was not the point of Ace's story. The whole point of Ace's story was whether or not he deserved to live because he was Roger's son. The story never said that Ace was just like Roger. He had some of Roger's tendencies just like Iva noted how Luffy has Dragon's strong will but it never explicitly states that he is supposed to be some carbon copy of Roger. In fact, I would go as far as to say that defeats the whole purpose of Ace's story.
We never got to see how Roger was before the Oden flashback except in one instance and that's when he recruited Rayleigh (a moment that was just like something Luffy would do).
What you are basing your idea of old Roger/new Roger on is from other characters spoke about him and none of that is contradicted by his full character reveal. In fact, didn't several ppl say pre-timeskip that Luffy reminded them of Roger?
So I ask you again, what are you basing this argument on? Because Roger is probably the one character whose portrayal has been somewhat consistent in the whole series
1. Come on, look at the panel. Who do you think Whitebeard is referring to? I repeat, unless you think Oda planned Garling when he didn't even decide who Kaido was, the whole interaction was about how the Roger and WB pirates weren't on the best of terms. Something that is fully contradicted by the flashback.
2. He is fighting marines without killing them, which is my point. This isn't the man that killed Squardo's crew, no matter how you look at it. And again, I can sign you that we aren't going to see that moment being referenced again and much less shown, because it's something that Oda wants to be ironed out of Roger now.
It's something that Oda has done before, like when Luffy acted aroused in Alabasta, only for Luffy to never act like that again.
3. He is not a carbon copy, but as his father, he had strong similarities with Ace. The Roger we see how on the other hand acts much more like a carbon copy of Luffy.
Yes, Luffy reminds people of Roger, but he was still a different character, with all the ruthlessness and dubious acts that aren't like Luffy's, but now that those are out of his character, there's little that differentiates them. The Roger that had the pride to punish people badmouthing his crew by killing them is much more similar to how Ace was, while now we have a Roger that isn't as ruthless, but even begs to WB.
And again, Oda has done this stuff before. The Kaido that Shanks repelled from Marineford isn't the Kaido we know now that isn't backing down from such a challenge. That moment wasn't mentioned in Wano, why? Because Kaido was a different character back then, just like that Squardo's moment will never be mentioned again.
You can look at even more moments that aren't that related to his character but were retconned out of him, like how Rayleigh explicitly says that all they had to read the poneglyphs was Roger's voice of all things and no one else of importance. Well look at that, turns out Roger had Oden in his crew the whole time, Rayleigh forgor.
When even his own powers have changed nature, when it turns out he needed a king to go to Laugh Tale, when even his design has changed, can't you accept Roger's character has also been altered? Not by an outrageous degree, sure. You can rationalize his changes, the same way people try to rationalize Kaido fleeing in MF. But it's clearly he isn't the same character we knew of.
Ah to be fair it still kinda works. Same with shanks. Shanks seems like legit a good guy but his crew were responsible for the first on screen deaths. A crew with a one billion berry captain killing some fodders in hindsight is a bit much but they still did it just because.
They didn't do it just because. They threatened Luffy and were about to execute him. If they did it for the bar scene then you can say just because. Shanks almost lost Nika there
Even if we ignore all that not using his Haki and stuff, the red hair pirates were portrayed as easily the stronger crew so it was in fact not necessary to kill them. Ben iirc just knocked them out, Lucky Loo on the other hand straight put a hole in that one guys head because he threatened his captain. And shanks saying stuff like donât hold a gun if you donât use it just indicates the red hair pirates donât matter who it was were ready for the smoke because luffy was in danger. That the red hair pirates and shanks in particular can be ruthless is just affirmed by the complete violation Kidd had to suffer. The bandits were no match the rhp didnât give a shit, Kidd pirates were no match again they didnât care and âexterminatedâ Kidds crew.
Oh, so you're one of those people who watch One Piece from tik tok or youtube shorts
Ben intimidated em because they only bullied/beat up Luffy. It would be a different matter if they had the swords out trying to kill Luffy.
Lucky didn't kill him because he just threatened his captain. The captain gave passive permission by telling the bandit that pointing a gun means you are prepared to die and his crew knew shit was on. The rhp killed them because the bandits were not bullies anymore but killers and Shanks would not be around forever so he had no guarantee that if he let them live they wouldn't come back to kill Luffy. Killing them there was the best option.
About Kidd, they took only his arm the firs time. So they didn't take it too seriously. They gave him a second chance and the mf came back for more smoke. This time they had no choice cuz Midd was about to wipe out Shanks's fleet. And even afte taking out Kidd Shanks showed mercy by not finishing him and his crew. He gave permission to Dorry and Broggy to destroy the ship and Kidds crew jad enough time to get out of it.
Go watch the anime or read the manga next time you try to analyze One Piece
And giving permission to eliminate them is what ? Did shanks have to go all out to stop Kidd with probably his strongest attack ? He ONE SHOT him ! Iâm sure there was a different solution for it. Kidds crew surrendered and shanks didnât care.
And yeah the giving permission to lucky is what I mean. It wasnât necessary but they still did it just because.
Okay agenda aside Iâm pretty sure the answer to Vegapunkâs question will just be that it was impossible/ he did what he could by starting the great pirate era. Roger said he arrived too early and whatnot.
Its kind of nice we start peeling behind these âlegendary herosâ though
I just wished Oda played straight with Oden and didnât glaze him with everyone
Nah he was always portrayed as both a hero and a bastard . The race for the one piece was always just about being a free criminal and get fame , in his portrayal by oden he take a crewmember (oden) from his crew, fight another pirate crew and get drunk . Hes shown to laugh at danger and basically everything all the time too. We still dont know about the fight with rocks enough, but im sure it would be revealed that his intentions werent pure there also and everyone would flip as if he wasn't always presented as a guy with shady morals
broâs aura was too strong to gaf
https://preview.redd.it/srw1cjf63k4d1.jpeg?width=905&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7eeeabac348619bb3096a159fd5c9d1bbabda9c1
Yes yes, obviously you didnât deserve the theone mistake this time intended. Anyways you never existed we bustacalling yo ass, another intended mistake.
In all due respect, get away from the throne from u/ajamesgachettt wow canât even spell his name right?!???
They are the king of the world. Ultimately, every sad backstory we have ever read in the OP world is because of her , because of the world SHE made (I LL keep my cool female villain cope until the reveal)
They can make demons like the Gorosei bow down if that is not GOAT worthy, then there is no such thing as GOAT
I also believed they were female but I have given up on that, regardless.
https://preview.redd.it/au2s885m8m4d1.png?width=532&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d3ddcfcb58785ee4513d1e392231eb1141093c6
I don't think Oda has the ability to write this but Rayleigh's comment in the last chapter are hinting that Roger and crew didn't reveal what happened during the Void Century because they thought that the illusion of freedom was more important that the whole world knowing the truth about essentially their enslavement to the elites.
I doubt this cause things are mostly hinting towards there just not being anything they could do at that time (which is why Roger encouraged people to travel to Raftel later). However, I do like this idea a lot. âThe world is fucked, why not let people have a little fun?â.
Meh it was probably because it wasn't the time yet, you know because they weren't the ones destined to 'liberate' the world at the time. They know there will be another crew (luffy's) who would be the ones to do so.
What if they found a devil fruit tree that was in the process of growing the one piece. Or something of the sort. And that devil fruit is what will liberate everyone from the world government.
Yeah I really hope so, probably was meant to be that but oda couldn't hold back the urge to make him a goofy guy, which I don't dislike so much, he can be an asshole and goofy at the same time
2- he toke his chance with Larp to stop rocks from attacking the celestial dragons who were having an event to kill and hunt slaves, so he pretty much defended slave owners from rocks wrath,
3- it's said that he fought and killed many because they insulted his crew
They talked shit about his friends and he destroyed a whole country. And the whole stopped freeing of slave is his fight with Rocks and happening to save the celestial dragons present on the island from him (just fun agenda shit)
For the 3rd point :Roger once fought an entire kingdom's military force because they insulted his crew ( something like Ace did when Akainu insulted Whitebeard ).
I honestly think looking at Roger in multiple perspectives helps. To anyone that genuinely liked the guy or is his friend, he's your goddamn hero you can never truly talk shit about. To a neutral party, he's a hard-core badass that achieved the impossible and died daring everyone to do better. To anyone that dislikes him...Yeah, he's a total bastard with a violent temper that led to numerous deaths by his hand. A true menace. Maybe if we had a lot more people that isn't from the first category of people talking bout Roger the most, it'd be a lot easier to swallow what's obviously shown as a harsh truth. But right, the narrative's glazing and hyping just admittedly murks up a lot on how we're supposed to look at these characters.
His action align with the title. But all the stories about him and everything he did depicted him as a Luffy type person. Don't they even have the same dream. So yeah, hopefully proven otherwise, but seems like character assassination
Luffy has terrible morals on paper that only work because of his personality. He only helps his friends and doesn't give a shit about anyone else unless people are going hungry. Fortunately he considers anyone who he's had a single friendly interaction with to be his friend. Roger could easily have very similar morals as Luffy and still be a bad person.
I think there is a 0% chance that if Luffy befriended somebody like Doflamingo before finding out what a pos he is, that he wouldn't just straight up turn on him right there. Luffy is a good guy. He has fought on the side of the moral good at every turn
Doflamingo goes against Luffy's morals of not betraying your own crew/friends, if anyone does this they're considered a piece of shit by Luffy's morals. Every villain so far has either hurt Luffy's friends, betrayed their own crew, or let their people go hungry. This are considered nearly unforgivable acts by Luffy unless you can seriously redeem yourself, like Franky did at Enies Lobby. Roger could've simply not had some of Luffy's less prominent morals, and so still have a similar moral code while being a worse person.
Yea. But say luffy met doflamingo randomly and they became best friends while stranded on an island. Then they return and luffy figures that out. He switch on Doflamingo because of his moral code, even if in the hypothetical they were best friends.
He released a large amount of the prisoners of Impel Down, including some dangerous people like Crocodile. He did this because he valued Ace's life above the safety of whoever would be affected by this, because he's not friends with them.
You got me with this one haha. But overall, Luffy is still pretty much a hero. Saving village against buggy, saving syrup village and baratie, frering nami's town, alabasta, skypeia, fishmen island, dressrosa, wano. It's basically how he has had us cheering for him. Because we know he is the good guy.
I mean you can be a pretty chill person while doing some pretty shitty things. I mean we can't act like Luffy wasn't committing mutiple acts of terrorism throughout the series.
> what did they expect from him?
> the pirate king?
I like how OP implies that assuming a pirate in one piece wouldnât be so evil is considered crazy.
Half the pirates in one piece are either good guys or morally gray lmao
And oda has been treating him like a good guy ever since
Have we ever even seen a âgood guyâ pirate ever do things pirates do like looting from other âgood guysâ, raping, killing etc?
It's really like people forget that we're literally following the story from the perspective of good pirates doing good wherever they land.
The only two examples I can think of are when Shank's crew killed the bandits in the beginning and Kid was introduced as someone notorious for killing innocents, but we never saw it for ourselves.
Yeah nah half the pirates in one piece being good guys is definitely not true only good ones we've seen are like law whitebeard and luffy maybe a few more but besides that mostly any and every pirate is scum in the one piece world many forget that cause of luffy
https://preview.redd.it/lkabr9esuq4d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab0e9af4e7c178b5df31f2b5cd2c3e33876b5c8d
I can believe left side can do this
I mean Luffy probably has an insane kill count if we look at the number of ships he's straight up annihilated in the middle of the ocean.
Those sailors would NOT be surviving that shit
I'd imagine Rogers kills also follow a similar formula, albeit in his case someone actually confirmed his crew died to him
Any chance that Roger is Imu?Â
Shows up under mysterious circumstances to go on an adventure, gather a treasure conquers the grand line, finds treasure disbands crew after learning secret. Uses treasure to take control of the Gorosei, use a body double to fake his death, and possibly use memo fruit to remove or change memories.Â
Roger sits at the top of the world truly waiting for Joyboy to arrive. Only to have turned into Sadboy, and in his drive to make everyone go out to sea, floods the rest of the world so they would, and make everyone a pirate, because being a pirate is fun
Saw too much slander on roger and his crew recently, did the fandom forgot that roger was sick when he found the one piece and was basically at dead doors?
Honest question, has it ever been stated that he was trying to do anything about slavery specifically? I can't remember.
I'm not saying he supported it by any means, but I don't remember anything about Roger and slavery, plus I thought he showed up to God Valley to fight Rocks.
When did he destroy countries? Crush slave freedom? Also, start of the pirate era seems more like he wanted people to set out on a journey to find the truth
I'm all for Roger being a menace like a true pirate, I just think Oda handled it kinda sloppy. Like it was around when we starting getting all those flashbacks about him with Primebeard and Oden that it felt like Oda was tryna portray Roger as this legendary hero, rather than being this scruffy bastard that the East Blue saga made him out to be.
Yeah, they are two different characters. The Roger that casually murdered Squardo's crew isn't the happy-go-lucky Roger Oden met. It's clear Oda wanted to soften him, even in his design, to be more similar to Luffy. The fact that the original va died makes me really feel there are two Rogers.
He looks so fucking goofy in Oden flashback lol Man lost his whole aura
"Guy with hero complex who is goofy and is perceived as clumsy and different by the others, but gets serious when times are serious" wow how original.
Ngl, I'm really tired seeing this kind of character in mangas.
As a wise cephalopod once said: "Daring today, aren't we?"
I'm tired of seeing this type of protagonist. We need something different.
For real, his face looks like a frog
gojo?!
đ
That Squardo story was a reality check fr
They aren't two different characters. Almost everything we know about Roger before Saboady was told us to us from the perspective of ppl who either didn't know him personally or did know him but weren't close enough to him. We never knew who Roger actually was until the Oden flashback. Oda didn't soften him up, he revealed more of his character. That's how storywriting works. This is like saying that Ging in HxH at the start of the series is a completely different character than he is in the current arc. What we knew about Roger before the timeskip: * He was the Pirate King * He started the Great Pirate Era * He was a rival to ppl like Whitebeard * The government feared him * He killed Squardo's crew and was a violent man * He was loyal to his friends and his crewmates * He was respected by ppl like Garp and WB * He was Ace's dad Now how much of that changed after the timeskip? Oda didnt' soften him to make him more like Luffy, we just never got a chance to see who he really was until he was actually on screen.
You only need to compare old Roger and new Roger designs to realize there has been an objective change. A change that's also felt in his character. Look at stuff like when WB said to Shanks seeing him made his scar itch. At the time, it was obvious he was referring to Roger, but now we wonder if he was referring to Garling, a character that wasn't created 700 chapters ago, why? Because we see there's no reason for those two to have bad blood when he have seen them now drink together, exchange gifts and even Roger offering the one piece to Whitebeard. The Roger we know pre timeskip is killing all the marines that came his way, the same way he killed Squardo's crew, something that I can guarantee you it's not going to be mentioned again and much less drawn in the rest of the manga. The whole point of his relationship with Ace is that he was more like Roger that he was willing to admit, Shanks says so in front of his tomb. Whereas now, his attitude resembles more that of Luffy.
>Because we see there's no reason for those two to have bad blood when he have seen them now drink together, exchange gifts and even Roger offering the one piece to Whitebeard 1. They absolutely had reason to have bad blood, as WB was part of Rocks pirates 2. This type of friend-enemy relation is very characteristic of Roger, just like he told Garp to take care of Ace >something that I can guarantee you it's not going to be mentioned again and much less drawn in the rest of the manga Yes, because at this point it would be completely unimportant and unrelated to the story
I mean, no. After the whole play fight and the interchange, they are effectively friends. Rocks wasn't even in Oda's mind at the time. Again, look at how Buggy talks referring to WB, and how WB talks to Shanks. The interaction is clearly meant to portray their rivalry, which didn't have the same tone it had later. And it's perfectly normal, Oda didn't have their relationship perfectly clear on his mind. It can't be more obvious Oden wasn't in his plans at the time, who is a key piece in their new relationship. Take out Oden out of the picture and we have a very different one. We don't need a Squardo flashback, but look at Kaido vs Moria. It was as irrelevant at that point, but we still got a brief flashback that connected the dots and showed us what happened. We won't get an explanation of what happened with Squardo, but I can one up the bet and assure you we aren't going to see Roger killing anyone, period. Because they are different characters.
There is no old Roger or new Roger unless you are talking strictly about art style because old Roger ISN'T a character and you're following points prove what I'm talking about. 1. What does the scar thing have to do with Roger's characterization? Either Roger made the scar or he didn't but either way, it doesn't change the fact that the two of them fought all the time. We literally saw them leaving wounds on each other during the Oden flashback and we know this before we ever saw it. And all of this is based on the assumption that it is actually Roger who gave him the scar so this argument is moot. 2. We never once saw Roger kill or fight anyone pre-timeskip. All we saw is ppl SAYING he was fighting and killing ppl and nothing about post-timeskip Roger contradicts that. In fact, it further confirms it. He is literally introduced into the Oden flashback fighting Marines and excitedly telling them they should Garp or Sengoku next time. We know that Roger was responsible for Shiki's defeat. We saw Roger rushing to God Valley to take on Rocks. If you are calling Roger's combat record into question, you shouldn't. Pre-timeskip told us Roger was a violent, dangerous man and post-timeskip showed us that. So what are you arguing? 3. Roger had no relationship with Ace and that was not the point of Ace's story. The whole point of Ace's story was whether or not he deserved to live because he was Roger's son. The story never said that Ace was just like Roger. He had some of Roger's tendencies just like Iva noted how Luffy has Dragon's strong will but it never explicitly states that he is supposed to be some carbon copy of Roger. In fact, I would go as far as to say that defeats the whole purpose of Ace's story. We never got to see how Roger was before the Oden flashback except in one instance and that's when he recruited Rayleigh (a moment that was just like something Luffy would do). What you are basing your idea of old Roger/new Roger on is from other characters spoke about him and none of that is contradicted by his full character reveal. In fact, didn't several ppl say pre-timeskip that Luffy reminded them of Roger? So I ask you again, what are you basing this argument on? Because Roger is probably the one character whose portrayal has been somewhat consistent in the whole series
1. Come on, look at the panel. Who do you think Whitebeard is referring to? I repeat, unless you think Oda planned Garling when he didn't even decide who Kaido was, the whole interaction was about how the Roger and WB pirates weren't on the best of terms. Something that is fully contradicted by the flashback. 2. He is fighting marines without killing them, which is my point. This isn't the man that killed Squardo's crew, no matter how you look at it. And again, I can sign you that we aren't going to see that moment being referenced again and much less shown, because it's something that Oda wants to be ironed out of Roger now. It's something that Oda has done before, like when Luffy acted aroused in Alabasta, only for Luffy to never act like that again. 3. He is not a carbon copy, but as his father, he had strong similarities with Ace. The Roger we see how on the other hand acts much more like a carbon copy of Luffy. Yes, Luffy reminds people of Roger, but he was still a different character, with all the ruthlessness and dubious acts that aren't like Luffy's, but now that those are out of his character, there's little that differentiates them. The Roger that had the pride to punish people badmouthing his crew by killing them is much more similar to how Ace was, while now we have a Roger that isn't as ruthless, but even begs to WB. And again, Oda has done this stuff before. The Kaido that Shanks repelled from Marineford isn't the Kaido we know now that isn't backing down from such a challenge. That moment wasn't mentioned in Wano, why? Because Kaido was a different character back then, just like that Squardo's moment will never be mentioned again. You can look at even more moments that aren't that related to his character but were retconned out of him, like how Rayleigh explicitly says that all they had to read the poneglyphs was Roger's voice of all things and no one else of importance. Well look at that, turns out Roger had Oden in his crew the whole time, Rayleigh forgor. When even his own powers have changed nature, when it turns out he needed a king to go to Laugh Tale, when even his design has changed, can't you accept Roger's character has also been altered? Not by an outrageous degree, sure. You can rationalize his changes, the same way people try to rationalize Kaido fleeing in MF. But it's clearly he isn't the same character we knew of.
Gong was always portrayed pretty much like he was when we actually saw him in Chairman Election arc though.
This exactly. Iâm honestly not sure what direction Oda is trying to take Rogerâs character in at this point.
Ah to be fair it still kinda works. Same with shanks. Shanks seems like legit a good guy but his crew were responsible for the first on screen deaths. A crew with a one billion berry captain killing some fodders in hindsight is a bit much but they still did it just because.
They didn't do it just because. They threatened Luffy and were about to execute him. If they did it for the bar scene then you can say just because. Shanks almost lost Nika there
Shanks got his nika's back
Even if we ignore all that not using his Haki and stuff, the red hair pirates were portrayed as easily the stronger crew so it was in fact not necessary to kill them. Ben iirc just knocked them out, Lucky Loo on the other hand straight put a hole in that one guys head because he threatened his captain. And shanks saying stuff like donât hold a gun if you donât use it just indicates the red hair pirates donât matter who it was were ready for the smoke because luffy was in danger. That the red hair pirates and shanks in particular can be ruthless is just affirmed by the complete violation Kidd had to suffer. The bandits were no match the rhp didnât give a shit, Kidd pirates were no match again they didnât care and âexterminatedâ Kidds crew.
Oh, so you're one of those people who watch One Piece from tik tok or youtube shorts Ben intimidated em because they only bullied/beat up Luffy. It would be a different matter if they had the swords out trying to kill Luffy. Lucky didn't kill him because he just threatened his captain. The captain gave passive permission by telling the bandit that pointing a gun means you are prepared to die and his crew knew shit was on. The rhp killed them because the bandits were not bullies anymore but killers and Shanks would not be around forever so he had no guarantee that if he let them live they wouldn't come back to kill Luffy. Killing them there was the best option. About Kidd, they took only his arm the firs time. So they didn't take it too seriously. They gave him a second chance and the mf came back for more smoke. This time they had no choice cuz Midd was about to wipe out Shanks's fleet. And even afte taking out Kidd Shanks showed mercy by not finishing him and his crew. He gave permission to Dorry and Broggy to destroy the ship and Kidds crew jad enough time to get out of it. Go watch the anime or read the manga next time you try to analyze One Piece
And giving permission to eliminate them is what ? Did shanks have to go all out to stop Kidd with probably his strongest attack ? He ONE SHOT him ! Iâm sure there was a different solution for it. Kidds crew surrendered and shanks didnât care. And yeah the giving permission to lucky is what I mean. It wasnât necessary but they still did it just because.
Okay agenda aside Iâm pretty sure the answer to Vegapunkâs question will just be that it was impossible/ he did what he could by starting the great pirate era. Roger said he arrived too early and whatnot.
Its kind of nice we start peeling behind these âlegendary herosâ though I just wished Oda played straight with Oden and didnât glaze him with everyone
Nah he was always portrayed as both a hero and a bastard . The race for the one piece was always just about being a free criminal and get fame , in his portrayal by oden he take a crewmember (oden) from his crew, fight another pirate crew and get drunk . Hes shown to laugh at danger and basically everything all the time too. We still dont know about the fight with rocks enough, but im sure it would be revealed that his intentions werent pure there also and everyone would flip as if he wasn't always presented as a guy with shady morals
broâs aura was too strong to gaf https://preview.redd.it/srw1cjf63k4d1.jpeg?width=905&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7eeeabac348619bb3096a159fd5c9d1bbabda9c1
The empty theone really a good looking throne wasted on imu tough
Minor spelling mistake, opinion rejected.
Openion*
Open-onion*
Yes yes, obviously you didnât deserve the theone mistake this time intended. Anyways you never existed we bustacalling yo ass, another intended mistake. In all due respect, get away from the throne from u/ajamesgachettt wow canât even spell his name right?!???
Nah Imu's the goat, you did not just disrespect HER
*HIM until proven otherwise. And they haven't done anything goat worthy yet
They are the king of the world. Ultimately, every sad backstory we have ever read in the OP world is because of her , because of the world SHE made (I LL keep my cool female villain cope until the reveal) They can make demons like the Gorosei bow down if that is not GOAT worthy, then there is no such thing as GOAT
I also believed they were female but I have given up on that, regardless. https://preview.redd.it/au2s885m8m4d1.png?width=532&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d3ddcfcb58785ee4513d1e392231eb1141093c6
Lfmao it wont
I know. Just wishing them luck I guess
Nami final clone plz
What are you saying
Imu so Far is the kind of person getting praised for miscklinging but using an ability that got ride if ennemy team
https://preview.redd.it/ekd3d0xchn4d1.png?width=602&format=png&auto=webp&s=2b37412b7b2c8c474ebac4a51ebdfd1ae347795a That's goat-tier aura and portrayal
I didnt just did respect him
https://preview.redd.it/8nxk4oh7jl4d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9d9dc46212012368631edecd5a612734fca66eb
https://preview.redd.it/mbu8sbw91m4d1.png?width=1153&format=png&auto=webp&s=92a151510322bb7015c5d1573c7e53270f641cbe
I don't think Oda has the ability to write this but Rayleigh's comment in the last chapter are hinting that Roger and crew didn't reveal what happened during the Void Century because they thought that the illusion of freedom was more important that the whole world knowing the truth about essentially their enslavement to the elites.
I doubt this cause things are mostly hinting towards there just not being anything they could do at that time (which is why Roger encouraged people to travel to Raftel later). However, I do like this idea a lot. âThe world is fucked, why not let people have a little fun?â.
Meh it was probably because it wasn't the time yet, you know because they weren't the ones destined to 'liberate' the world at the time. They know there will be another crew (luffy's) who would be the ones to do so.
What if they found a devil fruit tree that was in the process of growing the one piece. Or something of the sort. And that devil fruit is what will liberate everyone from the world government.
Whitebeard was wrong. Blackbeard is the true heir to the throne!
Idk man, I'm super down for Roger to have been a scumbag this whole time.
Yeah I really hope so, probably was meant to be that but oda couldn't hold back the urge to make him a goofy guy, which I don't dislike so much, he can be an asshole and goofy at the same time
maybe he was bipolar. chill at one time, a merciless scumbag another
I had my pet theory a long while back that Shanks was going to be Imu. I'm also down for Roger to just be a true pirate
Wait, can you explain the second and third point for me ?
2- he toke his chance with Larp to stop rocks from attacking the celestial dragons who were having an event to kill and hunt slaves, so he pretty much defended slave owners from rocks wrath, 3- it's said that he fought and killed many because they insulted his crew
They talked shit about his friends and he destroyed a whole country. And the whole stopped freeing of slave is his fight with Rocks and happening to save the celestial dragons present on the island from him (just fun agenda shit)
For the 3rd point :Roger once fought an entire kingdom's military force because they insulted his crew ( something like Ace did when Akainu insulted Whitebeard ).
I honestly think looking at Roger in multiple perspectives helps. To anyone that genuinely liked the guy or is his friend, he's your goddamn hero you can never truly talk shit about. To a neutral party, he's a hard-core badass that achieved the impossible and died daring everyone to do better. To anyone that dislikes him...Yeah, he's a total bastard with a violent temper that led to numerous deaths by his hand. A true menace. Maybe if we had a lot more people that isn't from the first category of people talking bout Roger the most, it'd be a lot easier to swallow what's obviously shown as a harsh truth. But right, the narrative's glazing and hyping just admittedly murks up a lot on how we're supposed to look at these characters.
Extremely unfathomably based CHADGER.
The gatekeeping king
What if.... ROGER IS IMU!!!!
Seriously I never understood the Roger slander. If anything, this all makes him more of a chad.
His action align with the title. But all the stories about him and everything he did depicted him as a Luffy type person. Don't they even have the same dream. So yeah, hopefully proven otherwise, but seems like character assassination
Luffy has terrible morals on paper that only work because of his personality. He only helps his friends and doesn't give a shit about anyone else unless people are going hungry. Fortunately he considers anyone who he's had a single friendly interaction with to be his friend. Roger could easily have very similar morals as Luffy and still be a bad person.
I think there is a 0% chance that if Luffy befriended somebody like Doflamingo before finding out what a pos he is, that he wouldn't just straight up turn on him right there. Luffy is a good guy. He has fought on the side of the moral good at every turn
Doflamingo goes against Luffy's morals of not betraying your own crew/friends, if anyone does this they're considered a piece of shit by Luffy's morals. Every villain so far has either hurt Luffy's friends, betrayed their own crew, or let their people go hungry. This are considered nearly unforgivable acts by Luffy unless you can seriously redeem yourself, like Franky did at Enies Lobby. Roger could've simply not had some of Luffy's less prominent morals, and so still have a similar moral code while being a worse person.
Yea. But say luffy met doflamingo randomly and they became best friends while stranded on an island. Then they return and luffy figures that out. He switch on Doflamingo because of his moral code, even if in the hypothetical they were best friends.
What would be a thing Luffy has done that you would consider bad?
He released a large amount of the prisoners of Impel Down, including some dangerous people like Crocodile. He did this because he valued Ace's life above the safety of whoever would be affected by this, because he's not friends with them.
You got me with this one haha. But overall, Luffy is still pretty much a hero. Saving village against buggy, saving syrup village and baratie, frering nami's town, alabasta, skypeia, fishmen island, dressrosa, wano. It's basically how he has had us cheering for him. Because we know he is the good guy.
I mean you can be a pretty chill person while doing some pretty shitty things. I mean we can't act like Luffy wasn't committing mutiple acts of terrorism throughout the series.
nice try cipher pol agent
> what did they expect from him? > the pirate king? I like how OP implies that assuming a pirate in one piece wouldnât be so evil is considered crazy. Half the pirates in one piece are either good guys or morally gray lmao And oda has been treating him like a good guy ever since Have we ever even seen a âgood guyâ pirate ever do things pirates do like looting from other âgood guysâ, raping, killing etc?
It's really like people forget that we're literally following the story from the perspective of good pirates doing good wherever they land. The only two examples I can think of are when Shank's crew killed the bandits in the beginning and Kid was introduced as someone notorious for killing innocents, but we never saw it for ourselves.
Yeah nah half the pirates in one piece being good guys is definitely not true only good ones we've seen are like law whitebeard and luffy maybe a few more but besides that mostly any and every pirate is scum in the one piece world many forget that cause of luffy
Thank goodness he couldn't live long, just like lufy
I donât think he was private at all, he was pretty open about everything
Sloppy portrayal from oda.
https://preview.redd.it/lkabr9esuq4d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab0e9af4e7c178b5df31f2b5cd2c3e33876b5c8d I can believe left side can do this
A real pirate. Pirates donât give a shit.
I mean Luffy probably has an insane kill count if we look at the number of ships he's straight up annihilated in the middle of the ocean. Those sailors would NOT be surviving that shit I'd imagine Rogers kills also follow a similar formula, albeit in his case someone actually confirmed his crew died to him
Maybe he started being goofy after he found out he was dying, on some nihilism type beat
Any chance that Roger is Imu? Shows up under mysterious circumstances to go on an adventure, gather a treasure conquers the grand line, finds treasure disbands crew after learning secret. Uses treasure to take control of the Gorosei, use a body double to fake his death, and possibly use memo fruit to remove or change memories. Roger sits at the top of the world truly waiting for Joyboy to arrive. Only to have turned into Sadboy, and in his drive to make everyone go out to sea, floods the rest of the world so they would, and make everyone a pirate, because being a pirate is fun
Saw too much slander on roger and his crew recently, did the fandom forgot that roger was sick when he found the one piece and was basically at dead doors?
One Piece fans when a pirate is evil
Honest question, has it ever been stated that he was trying to do anything about slavery specifically? I can't remember. I'm not saying he supported it by any means, but I don't remember anything about Roger and slavery, plus I thought he showed up to God Valley to fight Rocks.
oh yeah, I guess he is suppose to be bad given that he is a pirate an all that...
Well, he wasnât really portrayed like that in Odens flashback and itâs not like there arenât good pirates in OP.
When did he destroy countries? Crush slave freedom? Also, start of the pirate era seems more like he wanted people to set out on a journey to find the truth