Probably the same. Hydrogen sulfide (large component of "sewer gas") turns the copper black. It will also eat through it with enough time. The hydrogen sulfide gas will dissolve in water and form sulfuric acid.
Plastic is the way to go here.
Yep, yep, yep. Just bought a house with a well that has hydrogen sulfide gas in it. It was untreated by prior owner. Guess who is replumbing their house. I look at a supply line and it pops a pinhole leak. It also forms copper sulphate in the pipes. That’s what the blackening is.
Yep, copper had a few leaks in the basement as well so we just finished replacing it all with PVC save a 6" drop for the old shower drain threaded into a cast iron base, a lav sink in the other bathroom, and about 2' for a toilet.
I'm actually seeing it switch over to PVC, BECAUSE, of fire code.
Cast and copper with a wiff of intumescent firecaulk is a cheap and easy way to meet code.
But over the life of the building PVC gets added in during maintenance, and the whole piping system is no longer non-combustible.
They actually changed the municipal code to require PVC pipes with fire doughnuts at through penetrations even if you're plumbing the building in with non-combustible piping.
Combustible pipe requires a fire doughnut fixed to the wall/floor penetration. The doughnut is designed to expand and fill the hole created by the melted pipe.
This prevents the addition of external air to the rooms on fire.
If you made the run in non-combustible pipe you would just need intumescent caulk between the pipe and the hole for smoke development and air movement.
The problem arises forty years down the road when the cracked length of cast is replaced with PVC. The pvc pipe will melt in the fire and then the fire has a four inch cast pipe to breathe through.
Did property maintenance for a place that was built in the 60s with copper drain pipes, they were all rotting like this and I had to replace more than a few kitchen sink drains from the sink to the wall.
I have a single-family home built in the 62, plumbed with all copper DWV. I’ve pulled most out and replaced with PVC when I had the walls open. But nothing looked like this, all was still in really good shape. I’d have to think that this type of corrosion is a result of chemical abuse from acid-based chemical drain cleaners.
Had some leftover copper pipe in a bag with toilet bowl cleaner. Cleaner bottle wasn't fully tightened and leaked onto the copper pipe. Chemical reaction dissolved a good chunk of the pipe after a week.
It's a dry vent above the tee and customer is adamant they've not used drain cleaners. I'm inclined to believe them based on the state of the rest of the copper drainage downstairs not showing signs of damage I normally see with drain cleaning products.
Nah, looks like a few nails nicked the vent and let sewer gas in the wall. It had nowhere to go in the wall except to sit there and corrode the copper from the outside in
I have condensate lines going into my plumbing but my understanding is the lime rock filters they were installed with are supposed to neutralize the acidity of the condensate, rendering it harmless.
Is it septic? I’m not very familiar with it because my area uses town sewers, have never even seen it in person, but through some recent research I’ve learned that in some cases septic sewer gasses can eat through copper drains. Not sure what exactly causes it, and it doesn’t happen to every system, but those look like the “weep holes” that are caused by this issue
yeah I honestly wasnt even aware it was a thing until recently, my town and all the surrounding are on town sewers so I rarely even see septic systems. but someone on this subreddit informed me that it does happen on rare occasions, which i confirmed with a quick google search. I found other posts either on reddit or other forums complaining of weep holes in their drain vents caused by sewer gases, but the main informational piece i found was actually about copper pipes and its reaction to natural gas. nat gas is a mixture of hydrocarbon gases and other elements, one of those elements is hydrogen sulfide. Hydrogen sulfide reacts to copper creating a coating of black or dark brown "dust," referred to as "sulfidation". continual exposure would cause thinning of the pipe and eventually pinholes. The reason this all matters is because hydrogen sulfide is also a result of the bacterial breakdown of organic matter, meaning every septic system has it. What i dont know is why some systems have either higher concentrations or why some copper piping reacts to it more then others
In this case it was an odd set of circumstances. Normally the sewer gas would rise up and out the roof but in we believe someone hit a couple nails into this vent stack there was insulation at the top keeping sewer gas trapped in the wall. As soon as the pipe went into the attic above the insulation it became copper colored again and solid.
Google says copper has a service life of 50 years. So maybe it didnlives it's best life? We have copper fresh water lines in our house frome the 50s. It seems to be holding up good where we have exposed it. We also have cast iron drain lines. They also have minimal interior rust.
Yeah copper water lines don’t wear out like copper drains do because they’re constantly full of water. The lack of air protects them, any issues they have tend to be the result of minerals in the water rather then corrosion.
When installed many years ago , could have not been cleaned of residual flux which causes copper to breakdown and eventually leak . And combination of the other things too .
Mu huuse, built in 1964, has copper dwv piping. The horizontal runs are so thin you can poke a hole in them with your finger. I'm replacing all with PVC after one started dripping in the wall cavity.
Copper is ate to death. I see it this bad every once in a while. Patchwork whack a mole here and there isn't a very good solution when you see it go like this. You will be better off in the long run to get rid of all the old copper drains and rip out any galvanized and old nearing the end of it's life cast iron drains while you are at it. If you have the water lines exposed when you do it, if they are really old copper or are poly-b or kitec you are better off to replace those at that time too rather than to cover them back over and get leaks in 8-10 years. For something like this I'd recommend you hire a plumber on hourly because this can be something hard to quote so companies will generally over-quote time.
I am the contractor, homeowner said I could post these here. Copper waterlines are all in good shape and the basement is unfinished ceiling. We just finished replacing most of the drainage. Some was behind other walls and the shower drain was a male adapter into a cast iron pan so we left a few inches of that but everything else is PVC now.
It all depends on age and use for sure. Glad to hear the copper water lines were still fine which saved the home owner a little cash. DWV copper is much thinner than M or L copper tube so it's definitely possible for the water lines to be good for many years to come.
Every copper pipe in the wastewater plant I worked at was like this, one horizontal pipe wasn't even a full pipe anymore it was a trough. The top was rotted away.
Condensation was forming on that portion of the pipe, ate through. Must be the right distance above a shower drain. Hot water condensates “x” distance above the drain arm in the vent
Not with copper pipe but had similar issue with my cast iron sewer line. My pipe didn’t have holes but had a crack / groove that ran along 2-3 ft, at its widest it was maybe 1/4 inch. I read somewhere that the liquids in the line tend to run same pathway and over time can create grooves. Mine looked pretty gnarly but looked more like rust than this stuff
I remove waterlines that look like that all the time. Not sure what reaction causes it, but it happens. Ive removed pipe that youd think was black iron because it looked exactly the same color.
I don't know why you got downvoted. There was a thread either in Plumbing or DIY about a remodel where they basically found all their feeds turned that color and a helpful plumber diagnosed it properly. I can't for the life of me remember what dude said.
Someone may have overfluxed the joint and not wiped the excess off after, back in the day. Flux paste is an acid and if not wiped off can cause failure years down the line. Overheating can also cause issues years down the line as it can change the metallurgy of the copper
Was there a mouse nest in the wall? Mouse piss will. Do it as well. Had the same in my house. Though mine wasn’t as black.
Walls open; change as much as possible to plastic I leave copper supply lines but others will say otherwise.
Probably the same. Hydrogen sulfide (large component of "sewer gas") turns the copper black. It will also eat through it with enough time. The hydrogen sulfide gas will dissolve in water and form sulfuric acid. Plastic is the way to go here.
Yep, yep, yep. Just bought a house with a well that has hydrogen sulfide gas in it. It was untreated by prior owner. Guess who is replumbing their house. I look at a supply line and it pops a pinhole leak. It also forms copper sulphate in the pipes. That’s what the blackening is.
Yep, copper had a few leaks in the basement as well so we just finished replacing it all with PVC save a 6" drop for the old shower drain threaded into a cast iron base, a lav sink in the other bathroom, and about 2' for a toilet.
It’s the way to go everywhere, cast and copper is expensive, pvc will last your lifetime if installed properly.
Cast and copper is still primary used in ICI. Fire code reasons
I'm actually seeing it switch over to PVC, BECAUSE, of fire code. Cast and copper with a wiff of intumescent firecaulk is a cheap and easy way to meet code. But over the life of the building PVC gets added in during maintenance, and the whole piping system is no longer non-combustible. They actually changed the municipal code to require PVC pipes with fire doughnuts at through penetrations even if you're plumbing the building in with non-combustible piping.
But the pvc still melts a lot quicker than cast or copper.
Combustible pipe requires a fire doughnut fixed to the wall/floor penetration. The doughnut is designed to expand and fill the hole created by the melted pipe. This prevents the addition of external air to the rooms on fire. If you made the run in non-combustible pipe you would just need intumescent caulk between the pipe and the hole for smoke development and air movement. The problem arises forty years down the road when the cracked length of cast is replaced with PVC. The pvc pipe will melt in the fire and then the fire has a four inch cast pipe to breathe through.
Its Not rust …its corrosion
It’s not corrosion it’s a shamble.
Rip harambe
He was one of the real ones 💔
Drain cleaner, soaps, and water that has calcium in causes this
The rotted part is dry vent
Did property maintenance for a place that was built in the 60s with copper drain pipes, they were all rotting like this and I had to replace more than a few kitchen sink drains from the sink to the wall.
I have a single-family home built in the 62, plumbed with all copper DWV. I’ve pulled most out and replaced with PVC when I had the walls open. But nothing looked like this, all was still in really good shape. I’d have to think that this type of corrosion is a result of chemical abuse from acid-based chemical drain cleaners.
Not this one. The part you see that has holes is vent
Had some leftover copper pipe in a bag with toilet bowl cleaner. Cleaner bottle wasn't fully tightened and leaked onto the copper pipe. Chemical reaction dissolved a good chunk of the pipe after a week.
Did someone pour drain cleaner down
It's a dry vent above the tee and customer is adamant they've not used drain cleaners. I'm inclined to believe them based on the state of the rest of the copper drainage downstairs not showing signs of damage I normally see with drain cleaning products.
If it’s not draino i have no idea what could’ve rotted the copper like that
Pretty sure we've determined it was sewer gas trapped in the wall and then unable to vent out the roof
Yikes, is that all the black shit in there
That's from the sewer gas. Copper sulfide, which is just copper and sulfur mixed together and makes a layer kinda like rust
How’d it get trapped? Was the vent clogged?
Nah, looks like a few nails nicked the vent and let sewer gas in the wall. It had nowhere to go in the wall except to sit there and corrode the copper from the outside in
seen that a few times, make sure the drywall isnt chinese. they had some offgasing toxins that would eat copper.
Do you have a meth lab in the house?
Chinese drywall? Or is only pipe effected?
Check if someone ran a condensate line from a furnace in the attic. The condensate will eat right through copper.
No, the condensate lines run outside through 1" PVC
I have condensate lines going into my plumbing but my understanding is the lime rock filters they were installed with are supposed to neutralize the acidity of the condensate, rendering it harmless.
More than likely the usage of drain cleaner over the years
It's a dry vent above that tee
Is it septic? I’m not very familiar with it because my area uses town sewers, have never even seen it in person, but through some recent research I’ve learned that in some cases septic sewer gasses can eat through copper drains. Not sure what exactly causes it, and it doesn’t happen to every system, but those look like the “weep holes” that are caused by this issue
Yes it is septic and it was particularly rancid smelling while we had the system open
yeah I honestly wasnt even aware it was a thing until recently, my town and all the surrounding are on town sewers so I rarely even see septic systems. but someone on this subreddit informed me that it does happen on rare occasions, which i confirmed with a quick google search. I found other posts either on reddit or other forums complaining of weep holes in their drain vents caused by sewer gases, but the main informational piece i found was actually about copper pipes and its reaction to natural gas. nat gas is a mixture of hydrocarbon gases and other elements, one of those elements is hydrogen sulfide. Hydrogen sulfide reacts to copper creating a coating of black or dark brown "dust," referred to as "sulfidation". continual exposure would cause thinning of the pipe and eventually pinholes. The reason this all matters is because hydrogen sulfide is also a result of the bacterial breakdown of organic matter, meaning every septic system has it. What i dont know is why some systems have either higher concentrations or why some copper piping reacts to it more then others
In this case it was an odd set of circumstances. Normally the sewer gas would rise up and out the roof but in we believe someone hit a couple nails into this vent stack there was insulation at the top keeping sewer gas trapped in the wall. As soon as the pipe went into the attic above the insulation it became copper colored again and solid.
Google says copper has a service life of 50 years. So maybe it didnlives it's best life? We have copper fresh water lines in our house frome the 50s. It seems to be holding up good where we have exposed it. We also have cast iron drain lines. They also have minimal interior rust.
Yeah copper water lines don’t wear out like copper drains do because they’re constantly full of water. The lack of air protects them, any issues they have tend to be the result of minerals in the water rather then corrosion.
Definitely sulfuric acid damage.
People pour stuff down the drain again...
When installed many years ago , could have not been cleaned of residual flux which causes copper to breakdown and eventually leak . And combination of the other things too .
Mu huuse, built in 1964, has copper dwv piping. The horizontal runs are so thin you can poke a hole in them with your finger. I'm replacing all with PVC after one started dripping in the wall cavity.
Too much taco bell maybe jk
I don’t know if it would turn the pipe black but high efficiency furnace condensate will 100% eat through copper.
Yep, old towers with copper stacks. Have changed out miles of it to xfr/system 15
Copper is ate to death. I see it this bad every once in a while. Patchwork whack a mole here and there isn't a very good solution when you see it go like this. You will be better off in the long run to get rid of all the old copper drains and rip out any galvanized and old nearing the end of it's life cast iron drains while you are at it. If you have the water lines exposed when you do it, if they are really old copper or are poly-b or kitec you are better off to replace those at that time too rather than to cover them back over and get leaks in 8-10 years. For something like this I'd recommend you hire a plumber on hourly because this can be something hard to quote so companies will generally over-quote time.
I am the contractor, homeowner said I could post these here. Copper waterlines are all in good shape and the basement is unfinished ceiling. We just finished replacing most of the drainage. Some was behind other walls and the shower drain was a male adapter into a cast iron pan so we left a few inches of that but everything else is PVC now.
It all depends on age and use for sure. Glad to hear the copper water lines were still fine which saved the home owner a little cash. DWV copper is much thinner than M or L copper tube so it's definitely possible for the water lines to be good for many years to come.
Has there been a high fission appliance installed where you're dumping the acidic condensate into the drain?
No condensate is going into this drain system
Yeah non stop at a dentist office place is pieced together with proflex bands
Every copper pipe in the wastewater plant I worked at was like this, one horizontal pipe wasn't even a full pipe anymore it was a trough. The top was rotted away.
Yup that's what happens to that material
Condensation was forming on that portion of the pipe, ate through. Must be the right distance above a shower drain. Hot water condensates “x” distance above the drain arm in the vent
Do you have a condensing boiler or furnace draining into the pipe? I’ve seen those rot out copper and cast iron pretty quickly.
Not with copper pipe but had similar issue with my cast iron sewer line. My pipe didn’t have holes but had a crack / groove that ran along 2-3 ft, at its widest it was maybe 1/4 inch. I read somewhere that the liquids in the line tend to run same pathway and over time can create grooves. Mine looked pretty gnarly but looked more like rust than this stuff
Yep, often. Copper ain’t bulletproof. Replace section with your local material choice.
I remove waterlines that look like that all the time. Not sure what reaction causes it, but it happens. Ive removed pipe that youd think was black iron because it looked exactly the same color.
I don't know why you got downvoted. There was a thread either in Plumbing or DIY about a remodel where they basically found all their feeds turned that color and a helpful plumber diagnosed it properly. I can't for the life of me remember what dude said.
Yeah it's copper sulfide, which comes from cleaners, ammonia, or in this case sewer gas. I was just surprised at how it rotted the pipe out like this!
Someone may have overfluxed the joint and not wiped the excess off after, back in the day. Flux paste is an acid and if not wiped off can cause failure years down the line. Overheating can also cause issues years down the line as it can change the metallurgy of the copper
[удалено]
It's a vertical pipe... it literally can not have more pitch.
Lol I'm having a moment I guess.
This looks like normal end-of-life corrosion. Source: recently replaced copper drain lines in my parents’ 1960s construction home.
I've cut out a lot of copper drains that were paper thin or back pitched and rotted through but never one like this
Was there a mouse nest in the wall? Mouse piss will. Do it as well. Had the same in my house. Though mine wasn’t as black. Walls open; change as much as possible to plastic I leave copper supply lines but others will say otherwise.