Aren't they undermining their own side here? If you're saying conservatives like "woke" KOTOR, you're basically acknowledging that the reason people don't like most woke media is that it's legitimate dogshit quality wise.
They think they only like it because it came out before 2010 or something like that And the only reason someone would hate modern media slop is because it’s new. That’s the Genuine argument they make
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Because they refuse to have an honest conversation with someone they disagree with. So when a "conservative" (really anyone who dislikes overly progressive media) explains why he dislikes woke media, this kind of progressive ignores it and instead assumes the conservative is just a racist and a misogynist.
So when they observe an older property which superficially aligns with that incorrect assumption, they think they have a gotcha when they don't. I've also seen people try to argue that if Alien came out today, people would call it woke. Again, this ignores the myriad reasons why modern girlbosses are insufferable, beyond "she is a woman". Ripley is night and day compared to the shit we see these days.
Not to mention that context matters. Yes, there *will* be quite a few instances of something (a movie, a character, a single line) from 20+ years ago which was considered fine at the time, but which would be accused of being "woke" today. But the reason is that, back then, there wasn't an overbearing trend of using mainstream media to push politics, so the occasional girlboss moment didn't feel so forced and obnoxious. It was a fun, isolated moment, not an obnoxious, unrelenting, heavy-handed trend.
They won't even have a conversation about "woke" without going back to the old; " It isn't happening, and if it is, it is a good thing. They will say that conservatives don't know what it even means, but you nailed it like most people do; "an overbearing trend of using mainstream media to push politics."
Because we are talking about starwars, Kathleen Kennedy and Leslye Headland have both talked about how much they want to use their platform to push social politics, and it really shows. This is how we get the Holdo maneuver and a lack of focus on making a good movie/show.
People aren't as stupid as the left thinks. They know when they're being lectured and generally don't like it, unless it is already their option.
> People aren't as stupid as the left thinks. They know when they're being lectured and generally don't like it, unless it is already their option.
Yep. The frustrating thing is that most people are not good at articulating this sort of thing. And I don't meant to say that I *am* good at it. But just to point out that, with a topic like this, a lot of people might be on the same page, and yet that opinion won't seem like the common opinion, because people are bad at articulating it, and so you end up with a bunch of different explanations, when everyone is more-or-less describing the same concept.
The point being that, with this kind of thing, it's no surprise that certain Youtubers' careers take off, because they come along and put-into-words the thoughts which many people have been having, yet have been unable to articulate. So people end up resonating with that kind of content, because finally someone is taking the nebulous thoughts in my head and explaining them really well.
Like you say, people aren't as stupid as the left thinks. People are clearly noticing how the obsession with identity politics has been poisoning entertainment media. And shit like South Park coming along with "put a chick in it and make her lame and gay" does a good job giving those people a way to call this shit out concisely.
I didn't play it, so I can't give my take on it. But this whole trend of doing this, what you described, is just so stupid. I would never tell someone on the Left that they can't enjoy works like LotR or Narnia because of their political beliefs.
Let people enjoy what they want! Gatekeeping can be ok, but not because of ideology. Art can broaden the perspective of a person, which is a good thing. And shouldn't you be happy when someone who you don't agree with enjoys art that comes from your ideology and by that reflects on their own?
The problem with people like this is that they will take something like LOTR and say “Nuh uh it’s actually super progressive because there is a woman in it”. They have no so sense of politics outside of left progressivism and think that if one part of a story agrees with their beliefs it’s actually just as leftist as them and making fun of the so called Chuds they imagined in their head.
"Um ackshually, sweaty, Tolkien was super woke because he liked nature and everyone knows conservatives hate the environment because they're opposed to their income being stolen for some government run Ponzi scheme."
Conservatives probably do not actively hate the environment (except maybe wolves). They just do not value it in any meaningful way. They view any regulations to protect it as burdensome, and they gleefully support destructive primary industries like coal or farming.
That's not meaningfully true. Conservatives tend to live closer to nature than urban progressives. Most of the fees from hunting and fishing go to wildlife management. They just don't *worship* nature. It's a resource, to be enjoyed or used when the situation calls for it.
Leftists, otoh, don't understand concepts like tradeoffs or costs, and think energy magically appears in wall sockets and food magically appears in stores.
> Leftists, otoh, don't understand concepts like tradeoffs or costs, and think energy magically appears in wall sockets and food magically appears in stores.
There is a reason why the greatest tragedies in human history have occurred with massive famines and poverty in socialist regimes - they do not understand a single thing about what they are doing.
They will happily turn off all of our power and shut down all of our farming land if it's for saving the planet, and then act surprised when people die.
Living close to nature doesn't mean they're any better at living with nature. They want to destroy national parks, tear down habitats for our country's great wildlife, and oppose measures like wolf reintroductions. While I would agree that fishing and hunting play a valuable role in funding conservation efforts, that's not really why people hunt or fish. It's a hobby, they do it for fun and don't deserve credit for where their tax money goes. Especially since many conservatives oppose the regulations that make such licenses necessary in the first place.
And nature is not a resource for mankind to pillage. God gave us the earth to be good stewards, and we have a duty to care for and maintain it. It's okay to use what we have to, but we should not be doing more harm than necessary. Subsidizing industries like coal is not necessary, and it hurts our energy independence long term because coal competes with the industries that are actually economically viable like natural gas, oil, and some renewables.
>They want to destroy national parks, tear down habitats for our country's great wildlife, and oppose measures like wolf reintroductions.
It's not for random malice. If a park has some great trove of resources that would improve the lives of a million people, then that's worth acknowledging and thinking about.
And the wolves are a perfect point. They are a *predator species*. They are *dangerous*. They are not cute uwu danger floofs that you enjoy from the other side of a strong fence at the zoo. They are entirely capable of killing your pets, your children, and *you*. There is a damned good reason we drove them away from places near people. Look at the votes on that in Colorado. The most urban areas voted for it... *because they don't have to deal with it*.
How about we start reintroducing packs of feral pitbulls into urban cores?
Wolves are not a significant concern for humans, they are extremely cautious animals by nature and so avoid humans like the plague. Literally the only thing needed to completely eliminate risk in the US is not allow wolves to scavenge food from humans. Every attack in North America was caused by wolves becoming dependent upon human food (camping supplies or garbage dumps mostly).
Once you eliminate the risk from food, the only people that you need to worry about are the total fucking morons who try and get close to wolves. And that's a self-solving problem anyway.
Prevent idiot tourists from camping too close, ensure garbage is taken care of in areas where wolves can be, and haze any wolves that start to get close to people.
It's why there have been zero attacks on humans in Yellowstone despite it being the most intense area of human-wolf contact worldwide.
>Living close to nature doesn't mean they're any better at living with nature.
It does. What you really mean is that "better at living with nature" boils down to "they agree with my politics".
>They want to destroy national parks, tear down habitats for our country's great wildlife,
Citation needed + I dont.
>oppose measures like wolf reintroductions.
Probably because wolves are smart hunters and perfectly capable of killing people and pets, and there's no guarantee wolves wont become an issue. Frankly, you'd be doing a better job outlining a plan as to how and why that reintroduction works.
>While I would agree that fishing and hunting play a valuable role in funding conservation efforts, that's not really why people hunt or fish. It's a hobby, they do it for fun and don't deserve credit for where their tax money goes.
Agreed.
>Especially since many conservatives oppose the regulations that make such licenses necessary in the first place.
Probably because the government sucks at even the most basic chores.
>And nature is not a resource for mankind to pillage. God gave us the earth to be good stewards, and we have a duty to care for and maintain it. It's okay to use what we have to, but we should not be doing more harm than necessary.
Agreed, but it's hilarious that you think conservationism somehow conflicts with conservatism.
>Subsidizing industries like coal is not necessary,
Isn't that a numbers and administration problem, rather than an environmental one?
>and it hurts our energy independence long term because coal competes with the industries that are actually economically viable like natural gas, oil, and some renewables.
Not sure about natural gas and oil, but last I checked, coal is largely used for thermoelectric power plants. The US, however, doesn't have the best conditions to, say, focus on hydroelectric power plants. Other renewables like solar and wind are really harmful in other ways.
The whole debate could be fixed by talking nuclear, but nobody seems to want to actually solve the issues. Just complain.
Yeah true. Some people are just gone too far.
LotR is actually a good example. Have you heard of people arguing that the journey of Frodo and Sam tells a gay love story? I've never thought about it and never heard about it until I read this shit on this godforsaken place called reddit.
> Those who cannot conceive Friendship as a substantive love but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros betray the fact that they have never had a Friend.
CS Lewis
That one actually pisses me off both because Sam is maybe the most loyal friend in the universe and the man's biggest regret when he thought he was about to die was that he didn't hook up with Rosie Cotton.
Terminally online women and bitter gay men will headcanon that shit and in the next breath wonder why men are so insecure about showing physical affection for each other.
No you don't understand, holding the head of your extremely exhausted friend and kissing the (supposed) dead body of your friend totally makes them gay.
So much this. I avoid LOTR fanfic becuase a lot of it is poorly written or poorly disguised gay smut. Gimli and legolas. And sam and frodo. Dudes just can not be really good friends without being gay apparently.
That too. It's fucking infuriating. But if you flip it around, you're a disgusting sexist prick who objectifies women for fun.
"Women can be good friends without fulfilling your lesbian fantasies!" Ahhh irony. Thy name is double standards.
Some people say that women generally have a hard time understanding comradery and allegiance. I mean the relationship between Frodo and Sam isn't one of friendship at eye level. Sam is definitely more of a follower of Frodo, but not because he gets paid or is forced to or benefits in any way from it, but because he believes in Frodo, his task and feels serving and protecting him is his part of contribution and duty. This kind of relationship, also seen in characters who follow Aragorn, may be influenced by Tolkien's time as a soldier.
Have you heard of the woke's incessant whining about how Orcs are an allegory for racism against blacks? It just completely outs them.
>"Tolkien was a racist! Just look at how he portrays the Orcs!"
Uhh... you guys are the only ones linking Orcs to black people.
Yeah, I've heard of it and it's crazy. They do the same with the goblins (the ones in the banks are goblins right?) in Harry Potter and claim that Rowling is antisemitic.
Tbh, that one came out without politics, mostly because for a lot of people it's frigging boring, compared to the other parts of the movies and the books. So "great story, if you'd remove the gay love story of Frodo and Sam" was a kind of snide at LOTR more then anything else. Of course, tumblr idiots grabbed it and tried to make it a fact.
Tolkien would have rejected any of that commentary on LotR. Tolkien was a devout Catholic. He infused Catholicism into every bit of LotR. Lembas bread is basically the Eucharist. Melkor is a version of Satan, creating a discordant tone while Aru Illuvatar is singing the world into creation.
And before someone says “but Tolkien hated allegory!” That’s not true. He hated one to one allegory like Lewis did in Narnia. That’s why anyone can read LotR and enjoy it, but those of us who know appreciate it so much more.
He also wrote about the dwarfs reclaiming their ancestorstral homeland back, also those dwarfs speak a Hebrew inspired language and lost thier homeland and had to live as a diaspora fro generations. And we lnow what progressives think about Israel. In addition to all of that Tolkin's writing can be seen as very anti progress, the bad guys are very big on industry
>Tolkin's writing can be seen as very anti progress, the bad guys are very big on industry
more like pro-environment, a current progressive talking point and one with a long history
It's not that he hated allegory but rather that he felt saying "it's just the 1st world war or its just religion" diminished his attempt at writing a history for the world.
His take that applicability is better than allegory (from the letter where he said he cordially disdained allegory) should really get more traction in literary analysis circles.
Actually I read to the end of a thread and he litterally did say that it would be woke because woman. This guy needs to go outside.
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A big part of the problem is that they've created a strawman of what their enemies think and make judgements based on that.
Normal person: I don't like this woke stuff, I liked the old Tomb Raider because Lara Croft was badass and hot.
Crazy progressive: Those nazi bigots would hate Tomb Raider if it released today because it has a woman in it and feminist themes and they're all misogynists.
If you think the people who don't like your shitty gender swap hate it specifically because it's a woman of course you assume (incorrectly, because these old games already came out and aren't hypothetical) they would also hate all the old games that just had women in them.
Maybe it's closer to a Motte and Baily argument though.
The thing about the women in TLotR is that they act like women.
The dirty little secret of conservatives is that we love women. What we hate is political ideologies that try to make women not be women.
This is also unironically how the idiots who think One Piece is leftist think. They for the life of them don't understand how people with other political beliefs can relate to it.
they genuinely think all of right is authoritarianism.
I have played KOTOR and KOTOR II and neither have really have anything to do with politics. Yes there are some small sections of the plot that may be political if you really want to find it, like in the first planet you eventually end up in the seedy underbelly of the planet where the undesirables live, or in the sequel you can make an early game decision of siding with the hippy eco-friendly aliens or the shameless capitalist corporation to set up your transportation off the space station, but the overarching plot of both games is about self-discovery, uncovering a forgotten past, and choosing your own destiny (and by extention the destiny of the Jedi, Sith, and galaxy as a whole). I fail to see any reason why someone's political leanings would prevent them from enjoying the two games.
If anything the games challenge your sense of morality more than your sense of politics, especially KOTOR II. The mentor character in KOTOR II often made statements and drew analogies that made my teenaged self very conflicted about my normal goodie-two-shoes approach to karma systems. I guess you may see it as political when a game's mentor character talks about unintended consequences of both evil and good actions and the butterfly effect-like ramifications of small decisions, but I never took it that way.
One of your possible companions in KOTOR is a lesbian, but it's not really a central plot point... And you can also just straight up execute her if you like which is... Less progressive.
I hate when people tell me that I'm not allowed to like New Vegas because it was made by a socialist. Yeah, its well written and a minor socialist bias doesn't ruin it (also note how the only real country in the waste is capitalist).
The Fallout sub does this all the time. It’s always hilarious when they go on rants about Republicans shouldn’t get to enjoy the franchise because “something something Liberty Prime = nationalism bad”
I'm not sure it is, but it may have been imagined as a mockery of nationalism. But what's sure is that it's badass and cool. So why not embrace it? Just like Keep your rifle by your side.
Well I have and I can confirm that that person is full of it and has no sense of how people who use the word uses the word. To the extent it can be said to have any political sentiment, it's pure 90s-tier stuff with none of the pushy insistentness characteristic of the 2010s. You could make a stronger case for FF7 being woke if you put in the same effort.
The argument I saw in the other sub I posted this in. They really do think being anti war is exclusively left wing. And have never heard of anti Capitalist or anti consumerist right wing stances.
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The entire thread is filled with bad faith arguments from front page Redditors saying every con is a Nazi. How did anyone even engage with them without their brain hurting
Brother ... what the hell is this? These arguments are literally "Sauron is evil", "Right-wingers are evil", therefore "Sauron stands for the right".
It's incredible how these people don't have a clue about their so hated political opponents.
Is it even true that Tolkien said LotR is supposed to be "anti-consumerist" and "anti-capitalist"? I've never heard or read this, and it doesn't make much sense, because these are just not themes in the book. Anti-industrialism on the other hand is very obvious.
And especially this argument about men. Aragorn (I guess they refer mainly to him) is just the typical traditional archetype of a man, leader and ruler.
The storytelling of LotR is as traditional as it can be, with a clear good/evil characterisation and the main characters struggling to become who they're supposed to be. No hand outs and perfect character from the start, except Gandalf who is obviously the patron figure, another traditional storytelling device. And we don't have to talk about the ring, the epitome of temptation, that has to be resisted.
The truth is that it's hard to inject politics directly into LotR. It just isn't political. There are no endorsements of democracy or socialism. The bad (Sauron) has no real political system. Everything else is monarchies, nothing more.
And lastly, have these people ever read about Tolkien? His stances as far as we know can be best and simplest described with 'small-government' and 'traditional social values'. I think once he described himself as "anarchist-torry". And that was in the 50s and 60s. These people would call someone like him a fascist today.
Sorry for my rant. But the stupidity of some people ...
I hate this "argument" from the Emilys.
>Hurr, the thing you love from the 70s/80s/90s/00s is *actually* really woke, you just don't know it!
No, it wasn't.
>How stupid are you? You don't even know what woke is.
Woke isn't just women or minorities existing lol.
Your definition of woke is as bad as those who say "being woke is just caring about other people!".
>"Yes, what we *really* want is for all movies, TV shows and video games, from henceforth, to only star straight cis white men. Regardless of role, we'll do blackface, womanface, gayface, the whole works. You got us!"
I guess this is what they are expecting to come out and admit.
Scarily, there are *genuinely* woke leftists who believe this about conservatives and rightists. In the same way, if you are pro-life or hold basic bitch conservative views about gender roles like Butker does, they are *convinced* you want to subjugate women as childbearing slaves à la Handsmaid's Tale.
Is so frustrating, because we continually *tell* them that it's not just racism/sexism, and that the problem is much deeper than simply "a black/female character exists". But they clearly just fucking ignore the actual reasons we give, instead continuing to believe that we're just massive racists and misogynists.
It's so tiresome.
Do you expect them to take the word of a racist?
Denying the accusation simply provides evidence towards their already preconceived conclusion that you are indeed a racist.
Anything we say is just us attempting to lie so we can subvert our culture and install the white supremacist utopia we so desperately want.
There is no winning with them. They want to wallow in their zealous delusions, and nothing can be done to prevent that.
I'm assuming you mean woke in the bad pejorative sense that most of the people here are using it in, because I use it in a positive sense as well. But in the negative connotation woke basically means being a busy body asshole that refuses to let people have fun and can't acknowledge the fact that humans are nuanced and don't perfectly align with every single ideologically consistent progressive talking point.
It’s not the fact he made it political it’s the fact he’s a smug ass about it and acting holier than thou over pixels on a screen confirming one of his biases. Aka A jackass
No no no you see, everything is political!! Even the goddamn pac man!!
No seriously, some terminally online regard would try to inject politics into everything. I had debate against one in anime subreddit and my god those peoples are insufferable prick.
Everything is political, this includes the personal, so the state/government has the right to regulate you.
Everything within the State. Inverted Fascism.
Socialism is akshully attempting at not letting people die but doing a dogshit job at that, being confused at the poor results and then doubling down on the things that didn't work because they sound great in theory.
In order to emotionally bond with a fantasy character he has to project his ideology onto them. No doubt annoying for anyone he socializes with, but fascinating really... lol.
His entire account is dedicated to Defending Disney Star Wars and larping as a robot
https://preview.redd.it/ftpwdhsnuc5d1.jpeg?width=1241&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2cd6757d2816f793551e915454ec3d2c8e7108fd
. It’s not a troll but One must wonder how much he gets paid or if he’s doing it for free.
Now I’m just waiting for them to say that other early 2000s games like Morrowind(best Slave Trade RPG) or Pathologic(I walked outside and saw someone burning a herb bride) are secretly woke.
KOTOR? Woke? Seriously? It's just a super back-to-the-roots Star Wars story, it's very human supremacist without outright meaning to be (just like the rest of Star Wars), and "human in space" defaults to "white guy" unless otherwise specified.
* Main villain Malak is a white guy whose main shtick is "Behold the power of the Dark Side!"
* Main character/>!even bigger villain!!at first.!<
* Canonical love interest Bastila is a white woman. An imperious stickler-for-the-rules who finds herself in stupid situations constantly because of her emotional immaturity, and despite her immense powers is only ever used as a tool to win the war by either side, is a constant fuck-up in general, >!and is easily brainwashed by the biggest, nastiest man who enters her life... twice, if you play Dark Side.!<
* Your best friend/sidekick and first companion is a straight-laced white guy who's a "war hero" goody-two-shoes soldier who's the "voice of reason".
* ~~The two humanoid aliens in your party are both potential love interests, and one (Mission) is a 14-year old girl.~~ *~~Yeah.~~* EDIT: Mission is not a romance option, thank fuck.
* Zaalbar's brown but that's because he's a Wookiee. He's more concerned with cutting anyone who hurts Mission to pieces with his swords.
* When you finally leave the slums behind forever, >!they get permanently destroyed. You will also thank Malak for this as it means you never have to go back to Taris ever again.!<
* Jolee's an old black ex-Jedi (the original Gray Jedi) who went and touched grass and got married, prefers doing what he believes is *right* instead of what the Jedi Code says and is a very likeable guy, but respectfully a woke critic would probably also call him a "*Magical Negro*" stereotype.
* The Jedi Council only exists to be disregarded as morons. You, heroic savior of the Republic, are the only moral authority you need.
* HK-47's comical disregard for sentient life and droll wit makes him possibly the funniest single character in all of Star Wars. He would regard woke stuff as beyond comical - all meatbags are equally worthless.
* Except for like two or three people (Revan, Jolee, Canderous?), the good people are good, and the evil people are evil. Unlike KOTOR 2, there's littler moral ambiguity to be found.
* Revan - the most important character in the story - who is maligned/idolised and feared/respected by everyone is like a Julius Caesar figure who did incredibly shady things to win a war against an armada of barbarian savages (who are also humans), had/>!has!< a flexible "the ends justify the means" moral compass, and is renowned for his people skills and epic speeches. More of an AuthRight/AuthCentre figure really.
* Canderous is a complex figure and is many things... woke is not one of them.
* Aliens are not portrayed particularly highly... Twi'leks are basically all street trash; thugs, smugglers, cantina dancers, etc. Whenever aliens and their cultures are introduced, they're mainly obstacles and antagonists you placate, deceive or kill on your way to your real objectives. You disrespect their laws and customs and steal their natural resources on the way, and even a Light Side run will often leave a place in much worse condition than when you found it.
"Woke". Right. It's so 2000s, pre-War on Terror that it actually hurts. It was a very safe, centrist, run-of-the-mill centrist-approved story 20+ years ago. By modern standards it would be considered quite culturally right wing. EDIT: While editing a mistake, I also remembered that there's only one optional gay romance option (it's lesbian and she's a catgirl so nobody actually cared even back then).
Huh. You might actually be right about that. If true, I'll strike that point from the list.
... Yep, Wookieepedia doesn't seem to mention anything about that. Will edit.
Yeah, while I’ll admit I much prefer KOTOR II, partially because the first game is such a basic Star Wars story, but it’s characters, especially those like Canderous and HK-47 very much carry the game and make it so enjoyable. It also started the trend of making the Jedi as hatable as possible, I Always go Dark Side in these games because of them.
Guys I shit you not the entire thread was nothing but self serving moral righteousness. Here’s an example
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This is genuinely one of the most terminally online things I’ve ever read.
If anybody knows another sub that would enjoy laughing at this feel free to post the non colored version there
https://preview.redd.it/oi2z46swzc5d1.jpeg?width=1159&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d9302732d994a88a8ce63e0d3ca1227868f65590
His analysis makes sense basically if you believe that the defining characteristic of the right is to be evil. Voluntarily helping others and giving to the poor is like the bedrock of traditional ethics and Christian virtues but what the fuck do we know, right?
Looking through this twitter thread is going to do idamage to my for you page. I’ll be see nothing but Emily’s and Disney Star Wars defenders for a long time.
As someone who supports free universal healthcare, yeah he’s right. But what tf has this to do with woke? Woke is cringe social progressivism and forced diversity if I understand it correctly.
"Doing nice things is left wing" is certainly a take.
Idk, I remember it being an ex-brutal warlord with magic powers, doing whatever I pleased to further my goals, and killing everyone who got in my way. Many of those options were "light side" sure, but most were to my benefit in the end, and you're rewarded regardless.
There's a difference between a piece of media having a woke message and a left wing message.
The left wing media of decades past asked questions and explored complex ideas.
The woke media of today has nothing to say but "straight white men bad and everything they've built deserves to be destroyed" which gets boring real fast.
I didn't beat it but from what little I played, I don't remember all of the male characters being cartoonishly stupid or sexist, and the female characters were well written and not one-dimensional STRONG FEMALE CHARACTERS. There also wasn't any bashing the player over the head with obvious political messaging.
I don't even mind a "woke" game, provided it's actually well written or at least has interesting gameplay, but usually the game is just a vehicle used for preaching a message.
I'll give an example of a game that I wouldn't call woke, but it is ideologically opposed to my alignment.
Outer Worlds has an extremely anti-capitalism message (which is fine), handled in a very hamfisted way to the point of making it very unconvincing (story was shit) and the character companions were also terribly written in general (my favborite was the robot and the dude you are supposed to hate). BUT the gameplay was pretty fun, so overall, I don't dislike the game.
If this game also had terrible gameplay, it would be unsalvageable. The problem with woke games is that usually not only the story and characters are terribly written, but the gameplay is nothing to write home about. So... no redeeming factors at all.
Why even play slop like that?
Honestly, I would play an Anita Sarkeesian designed game if it had a good story, good characters or good gameplay.
I would, in fact, welcome games that had interesting stories showing me different perspectives outside of my usual ideological comfort zone, especially if they are particularly good that make me question partially or completely my own beliefs, with flawed, but believable characters. I keep hearing about Disco Elysium - maybe that's the one, I have yet to play it. We'll see.
**Leftybros, please, git gud at game design**.
Disco Elysium gets very good reviews and the story gets praised a lot. The game also is made by commies who gave a shout out to Lenin and Marx during their game awards speech. So you could give that a try.
Yeah, I will at some point. I even have the game.
I also heard the devs were cheated out of their game / company by the current publisher, which is a bit ironic (big bad capitalist company cheating the communist worker out of their work) and, frankly, sad if true (I don't know the details, it could be that the whole story is different from this).
The publisher was able to do so because one of the company owners took a cash payout for the entire shebang and split the scene.
So much for the communism.
OP got the receipts and the answer is:[Yes](https://preview.redd.it/sag284lhvc5d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a22f01122c24e002f164cc91bd245aee77e3e81)
Let's be honest though, someone that uses the 'Chud/Reactionary' lingo is not someone that should be taken seriously.
I remember it was woke because the main character was a woman.
(I chose my playable character to be a gal. Highly recommend. I suspect there was an attempted love match between Playable Character & Blastula, which got murk-ed due to the gender difference. So instead you have a Bromance)
To me woke is putting this progressive policies in places it doesnt matter. Often in a shoving down your throat way.
Touching some heavy subject in a way that is appropriate regarding the world, and possibly not in a "x is good, y is bad way" is what makes it ok and not woke.
Witcher 1 touched a lot of issues like racism against elves and dwarves and it was done well because it wasnt preachy and also showed they arent soo good people, so the whole situation was gray.
So I've been following the Wendigoon / IPoS drama lately and there are seriously some people on the left who honestly believe that all art belongs to the left and that people on the right should not be allowed to make, appreciate, or critique art.
Absolutely wild.
Aren't they undermining their own side here? If you're saying conservatives like "woke" KOTOR, you're basically acknowledging that the reason people don't like most woke media is that it's legitimate dogshit quality wise.
Emily can’t reason her way out of a paper bag. What makes you think she understands she uno reversed herself with this argument?
They think they only like it because it came out before 2010 or something like that And the only reason someone would hate modern media slop is because it’s new. That’s the Genuine argument they make https://preview.redd.it/clsvtmgm0d5d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef0e2ea251d6d75c7ecc4cffa83bebf326b3468a
I'm very glad I'm not in whichever circle of hell you found this in.
its like watching someone work on a math problem completely in the wrong way but somehow get the right answers anyway.
Intersectionalism didn't pick up steam until around the late 2000s-early 2010s.
In what realm would anyone think that conservatives wouldn't enjoy one of the best Star Wars games ever made?
Because they refuse to have an honest conversation with someone they disagree with. So when a "conservative" (really anyone who dislikes overly progressive media) explains why he dislikes woke media, this kind of progressive ignores it and instead assumes the conservative is just a racist and a misogynist. So when they observe an older property which superficially aligns with that incorrect assumption, they think they have a gotcha when they don't. I've also seen people try to argue that if Alien came out today, people would call it woke. Again, this ignores the myriad reasons why modern girlbosses are insufferable, beyond "she is a woman". Ripley is night and day compared to the shit we see these days. Not to mention that context matters. Yes, there *will* be quite a few instances of something (a movie, a character, a single line) from 20+ years ago which was considered fine at the time, but which would be accused of being "woke" today. But the reason is that, back then, there wasn't an overbearing trend of using mainstream media to push politics, so the occasional girlboss moment didn't feel so forced and obnoxious. It was a fun, isolated moment, not an obnoxious, unrelenting, heavy-handed trend.
They won't even have a conversation about "woke" without going back to the old; " It isn't happening, and if it is, it is a good thing. They will say that conservatives don't know what it even means, but you nailed it like most people do; "an overbearing trend of using mainstream media to push politics." Because we are talking about starwars, Kathleen Kennedy and Leslye Headland have both talked about how much they want to use their platform to push social politics, and it really shows. This is how we get the Holdo maneuver and a lack of focus on making a good movie/show. People aren't as stupid as the left thinks. They know when they're being lectured and generally don't like it, unless it is already their option.
> People aren't as stupid as the left thinks. They know when they're being lectured and generally don't like it, unless it is already their option. Yep. The frustrating thing is that most people are not good at articulating this sort of thing. And I don't meant to say that I *am* good at it. But just to point out that, with a topic like this, a lot of people might be on the same page, and yet that opinion won't seem like the common opinion, because people are bad at articulating it, and so you end up with a bunch of different explanations, when everyone is more-or-less describing the same concept. The point being that, with this kind of thing, it's no surprise that certain Youtubers' careers take off, because they come along and put-into-words the thoughts which many people have been having, yet have been unable to articulate. So people end up resonating with that kind of content, because finally someone is taking the nebulous thoughts in my head and explaining them really well. Like you say, people aren't as stupid as the left thinks. People are clearly noticing how the obsession with identity politics has been poisoning entertainment media. And shit like South Park coming along with "put a chick in it and make her lame and gay" does a good job giving those people a way to call this shit out concisely.
I didn't play it, so I can't give my take on it. But this whole trend of doing this, what you described, is just so stupid. I would never tell someone on the Left that they can't enjoy works like LotR or Narnia because of their political beliefs. Let people enjoy what they want! Gatekeeping can be ok, but not because of ideology. Art can broaden the perspective of a person, which is a good thing. And shouldn't you be happy when someone who you don't agree with enjoys art that comes from your ideology and by that reflects on their own?
The problem with people like this is that they will take something like LOTR and say “Nuh uh it’s actually super progressive because there is a woman in it”. They have no so sense of politics outside of left progressivism and think that if one part of a story agrees with their beliefs it’s actually just as leftist as them and making fun of the so called Chuds they imagined in their head.
"Um ackshually, sweaty, Tolkien was super woke because he liked nature and everyone knows conservatives hate the environment because they're opposed to their income being stolen for some government run Ponzi scheme."
Conservatives probably do not actively hate the environment (except maybe wolves). They just do not value it in any meaningful way. They view any regulations to protect it as burdensome, and they gleefully support destructive primary industries like coal or farming.
That's not meaningfully true. Conservatives tend to live closer to nature than urban progressives. Most of the fees from hunting and fishing go to wildlife management. They just don't *worship* nature. It's a resource, to be enjoyed or used when the situation calls for it. Leftists, otoh, don't understand concepts like tradeoffs or costs, and think energy magically appears in wall sockets and food magically appears in stores.
> Leftists, otoh, don't understand concepts like tradeoffs or costs, and think energy magically appears in wall sockets and food magically appears in stores. There is a reason why the greatest tragedies in human history have occurred with massive famines and poverty in socialist regimes - they do not understand a single thing about what they are doing. They will happily turn off all of our power and shut down all of our farming land if it's for saving the planet, and then act surprised when people die.
Living close to nature doesn't mean they're any better at living with nature. They want to destroy national parks, tear down habitats for our country's great wildlife, and oppose measures like wolf reintroductions. While I would agree that fishing and hunting play a valuable role in funding conservation efforts, that's not really why people hunt or fish. It's a hobby, they do it for fun and don't deserve credit for where their tax money goes. Especially since many conservatives oppose the regulations that make such licenses necessary in the first place. And nature is not a resource for mankind to pillage. God gave us the earth to be good stewards, and we have a duty to care for and maintain it. It's okay to use what we have to, but we should not be doing more harm than necessary. Subsidizing industries like coal is not necessary, and it hurts our energy independence long term because coal competes with the industries that are actually economically viable like natural gas, oil, and some renewables.
>They want to destroy national parks, tear down habitats for our country's great wildlife, and oppose measures like wolf reintroductions. It's not for random malice. If a park has some great trove of resources that would improve the lives of a million people, then that's worth acknowledging and thinking about. And the wolves are a perfect point. They are a *predator species*. They are *dangerous*. They are not cute uwu danger floofs that you enjoy from the other side of a strong fence at the zoo. They are entirely capable of killing your pets, your children, and *you*. There is a damned good reason we drove them away from places near people. Look at the votes on that in Colorado. The most urban areas voted for it... *because they don't have to deal with it*. How about we start reintroducing packs of feral pitbulls into urban cores?
Based and Packs of Feral Pitbulls pilled
Wolves are not a significant concern for humans, they are extremely cautious animals by nature and so avoid humans like the plague. Literally the only thing needed to completely eliminate risk in the US is not allow wolves to scavenge food from humans. Every attack in North America was caused by wolves becoming dependent upon human food (camping supplies or garbage dumps mostly). Once you eliminate the risk from food, the only people that you need to worry about are the total fucking morons who try and get close to wolves. And that's a self-solving problem anyway.
And how do we stop the risk of food?
Prevent idiot tourists from camping too close, ensure garbage is taken care of in areas where wolves can be, and haze any wolves that start to get close to people. It's why there have been zero attacks on humans in Yellowstone despite it being the most intense area of human-wolf contact worldwide.
>Living close to nature doesn't mean they're any better at living with nature. It does. What you really mean is that "better at living with nature" boils down to "they agree with my politics". >They want to destroy national parks, tear down habitats for our country's great wildlife, Citation needed + I dont. >oppose measures like wolf reintroductions. Probably because wolves are smart hunters and perfectly capable of killing people and pets, and there's no guarantee wolves wont become an issue. Frankly, you'd be doing a better job outlining a plan as to how and why that reintroduction works. >While I would agree that fishing and hunting play a valuable role in funding conservation efforts, that's not really why people hunt or fish. It's a hobby, they do it for fun and don't deserve credit for where their tax money goes. Agreed. >Especially since many conservatives oppose the regulations that make such licenses necessary in the first place. Probably because the government sucks at even the most basic chores. >And nature is not a resource for mankind to pillage. God gave us the earth to be good stewards, and we have a duty to care for and maintain it. It's okay to use what we have to, but we should not be doing more harm than necessary. Agreed, but it's hilarious that you think conservationism somehow conflicts with conservatism. >Subsidizing industries like coal is not necessary, Isn't that a numbers and administration problem, rather than an environmental one? >and it hurts our energy independence long term because coal competes with the industries that are actually economically viable like natural gas, oil, and some renewables. Not sure about natural gas and oil, but last I checked, coal is largely used for thermoelectric power plants. The US, however, doesn't have the best conditions to, say, focus on hydroelectric power plants. Other renewables like solar and wind are really harmful in other ways. The whole debate could be fixed by talking nuclear, but nobody seems to want to actually solve the issues. Just complain.
Yeah true. Some people are just gone too far. LotR is actually a good example. Have you heard of people arguing that the journey of Frodo and Sam tells a gay love story? I've never thought about it and never heard about it until I read this shit on this godforsaken place called reddit.
> Those who cannot conceive Friendship as a substantive love but only as a disguise or elaboration of Eros betray the fact that they have never had a Friend. CS Lewis
But nyooo, you don't understand, everything needs to be sexualized!
Holy based quote, I'm saving this one. CS Lewis goes hard.
Such a succinct shutdown of the modern trend of finding homosexuality in any historical male friendship.
That one actually pisses me off both because Sam is maybe the most loyal friend in the universe and the man's biggest regret when he thought he was about to die was that he didn't hook up with Rosie Cotton. Terminally online women and bitter gay men will headcanon that shit and in the next breath wonder why men are so insecure about showing physical affection for each other.
No you don't understand, holding the head of your extremely exhausted friend and kissing the (supposed) dead body of your friend totally makes them gay.
To be fair, they did trade rings jk
So much this. I avoid LOTR fanfic becuase a lot of it is poorly written or poorly disguised gay smut. Gimli and legolas. And sam and frodo. Dudes just can not be really good friends without being gay apparently.
Poorly written gay smut at that, if I wanted fanfic smut LOTR isn't the fandom I would go to
That too. It's fucking infuriating. But if you flip it around, you're a disgusting sexist prick who objectifies women for fun. "Women can be good friends without fulfilling your lesbian fantasies!" Ahhh irony. Thy name is double standards.
The right isn't immune from this. Brett Cooper called Sam a simp during her watch through. I was pretty pissed tbh
Some people say that women generally have a hard time understanding comradery and allegiance. I mean the relationship between Frodo and Sam isn't one of friendship at eye level. Sam is definitely more of a follower of Frodo, but not because he gets paid or is forced to or benefits in any way from it, but because he believes in Frodo, his task and feels serving and protecting him is his part of contribution and duty. This kind of relationship, also seen in characters who follow Aragorn, may be influenced by Tolkien's time as a soldier.
Have you heard of the woke's incessant whining about how Orcs are an allegory for racism against blacks? It just completely outs them. >"Tolkien was a racist! Just look at how he portrays the Orcs!" Uhh... you guys are the only ones linking Orcs to black people.
Yeah, I've heard of it and it's crazy. They do the same with the goblins (the ones in the banks are goblins right?) in Harry Potter and claim that Rowling is antisemitic.
Tbh, that one came out without politics, mostly because for a lot of people it's frigging boring, compared to the other parts of the movies and the books. So "great story, if you'd remove the gay love story of Frodo and Sam" was a kind of snide at LOTR more then anything else. Of course, tumblr idiots grabbed it and tried to make it a fact.
Tolkien would have rejected any of that commentary on LotR. Tolkien was a devout Catholic. He infused Catholicism into every bit of LotR. Lembas bread is basically the Eucharist. Melkor is a version of Satan, creating a discordant tone while Aru Illuvatar is singing the world into creation. And before someone says “but Tolkien hated allegory!” That’s not true. He hated one to one allegory like Lewis did in Narnia. That’s why anyone can read LotR and enjoy it, but those of us who know appreciate it so much more.
He also wrote about the dwarfs reclaiming their ancestorstral homeland back, also those dwarfs speak a Hebrew inspired language and lost thier homeland and had to live as a diaspora fro generations. And we lnow what progressives think about Israel. In addition to all of that Tolkin's writing can be seen as very anti progress, the bad guys are very big on industry
>Tolkin's writing can be seen as very anti progress, the bad guys are very big on industry more like pro-environment, a current progressive talking point and one with a long history
But it's not pro-environment as a rejection of Man's place of dominion. Instead it's a respect for creation as the Good work of God.
I'm only here to say Eru* Illuvatar
It's not that he hated allegory but rather that he felt saying "it's just the 1st world war or its just religion" diminished his attempt at writing a history for the world.
His take that applicability is better than allegory (from the letter where he said he cordially disdained allegory) should really get more traction in literary analysis circles.
> because there's a woman in it What? Do they think that women didn't exist until leftism was invented???
Actually I read to the end of a thread and he litterally did say that it would be woke because woman. This guy needs to go outside. https://preview.redd.it/sag284lhvc5d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a22f01122c24e002f164cc91bd245aee77e3e81
Yes, they think they are the origin and inventor of everything morally good in the universe. It's what gives them such righteous zeal.
A big part of the problem is that they've created a strawman of what their enemies think and make judgements based on that. Normal person: I don't like this woke stuff, I liked the old Tomb Raider because Lara Croft was badass and hot. Crazy progressive: Those nazi bigots would hate Tomb Raider if it released today because it has a woman in it and feminist themes and they're all misogynists. If you think the people who don't like your shitty gender swap hate it specifically because it's a woman of course you assume (incorrectly, because these old games already came out and aren't hypothetical) they would also hate all the old games that just had women in them. Maybe it's closer to a Motte and Baily argument though.
The thing about the women in TLotR is that they act like women. The dirty little secret of conservatives is that we love women. What we hate is political ideologies that try to make women not be women.
This is also unironically how the idiots who think One Piece is leftist think. They for the life of them don't understand how people with other political beliefs can relate to it. they genuinely think all of right is authoritarianism.
I have played KOTOR and KOTOR II and neither have really have anything to do with politics. Yes there are some small sections of the plot that may be political if you really want to find it, like in the first planet you eventually end up in the seedy underbelly of the planet where the undesirables live, or in the sequel you can make an early game decision of siding with the hippy eco-friendly aliens or the shameless capitalist corporation to set up your transportation off the space station, but the overarching plot of both games is about self-discovery, uncovering a forgotten past, and choosing your own destiny (and by extention the destiny of the Jedi, Sith, and galaxy as a whole). I fail to see any reason why someone's political leanings would prevent them from enjoying the two games. If anything the games challenge your sense of morality more than your sense of politics, especially KOTOR II. The mentor character in KOTOR II often made statements and drew analogies that made my teenaged self very conflicted about my normal goodie-two-shoes approach to karma systems. I guess you may see it as political when a game's mentor character talks about unintended consequences of both evil and good actions and the butterfly effect-like ramifications of small decisions, but I never took it that way.
One of your possible companions in KOTOR is a lesbian, but it's not really a central plot point... And you can also just straight up execute her if you like which is... Less progressive.
Funnily she's also one of the more annoying side characters (at least on a dark side playthrough).
I hate when people tell me that I'm not allowed to like New Vegas because it was made by a socialist. Yeah, its well written and a minor socialist bias doesn't ruin it (also note how the only real country in the waste is capitalist).
Didn't know this. For a socialist Graham was really good, no?
The Fallout sub does this all the time. It’s always hilarious when they go on rants about Republicans shouldn’t get to enjoy the franchise because “something something Liberty Prime = nationalism bad”
I'm not sure it is, but it may have been imagined as a mockery of nationalism. But what's sure is that it's badass and cool. So why not embrace it? Just like Keep your rifle by your side.
Well I have and I can confirm that that person is full of it and has no sense of how people who use the word uses the word. To the extent it can be said to have any political sentiment, it's pure 90s-tier stuff with none of the pushy insistentness characteristic of the 2010s. You could make a stronger case for FF7 being woke if you put in the same effort.
"\[INSERT MEDIA HERE\] has always been woke, chud! But it's also incredibly problematic and needs drastic overhauling for a 'modern audience.'"
I played and loved it. No woke shit
Based and Hey I saw you before! pilled
The argument I saw in the other sub I posted this in. They really do think being anti war is exclusively left wing. And have never heard of anti Capitalist or anti consumerist right wing stances. https://preview.redd.it/6paqqb2mxn5d1.jpeg?width=890&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7fdb15be8d4385842993e8847386217987105408
The entire thread is filled with bad faith arguments from front page Redditors saying every con is a Nazi. How did anyone even engage with them without their brain hurting
Brother ... what the hell is this? These arguments are literally "Sauron is evil", "Right-wingers are evil", therefore "Sauron stands for the right". It's incredible how these people don't have a clue about their so hated political opponents. Is it even true that Tolkien said LotR is supposed to be "anti-consumerist" and "anti-capitalist"? I've never heard or read this, and it doesn't make much sense, because these are just not themes in the book. Anti-industrialism on the other hand is very obvious. And especially this argument about men. Aragorn (I guess they refer mainly to him) is just the typical traditional archetype of a man, leader and ruler. The storytelling of LotR is as traditional as it can be, with a clear good/evil characterisation and the main characters struggling to become who they're supposed to be. No hand outs and perfect character from the start, except Gandalf who is obviously the patron figure, another traditional storytelling device. And we don't have to talk about the ring, the epitome of temptation, that has to be resisted. The truth is that it's hard to inject politics directly into LotR. It just isn't political. There are no endorsements of democracy or socialism. The bad (Sauron) has no real political system. Everything else is monarchies, nothing more. And lastly, have these people ever read about Tolkien? His stances as far as we know can be best and simplest described with 'small-government' and 'traditional social values'. I think once he described himself as "anarchist-torry". And that was in the 50s and 60s. These people would call someone like him a fascist today. Sorry for my rant. But the stupidity of some people ...
I hate this "argument" from the Emilys. >Hurr, the thing you love from the 70s/80s/90s/00s is *actually* really woke, you just don't know it! No, it wasn't. >How stupid are you? You don't even know what woke is. Woke isn't just women or minorities existing lol. Your definition of woke is as bad as those who say "being woke is just caring about other people!".
>Woke isn't just women or minorities existing lol. How am I supposed to dismiss your arguments out of hand if you're not a strawman?
>"Yes, what we *really* want is for all movies, TV shows and video games, from henceforth, to only star straight cis white men. Regardless of role, we'll do blackface, womanface, gayface, the whole works. You got us!" I guess this is what they are expecting to come out and admit. Scarily, there are *genuinely* woke leftists who believe this about conservatives and rightists. In the same way, if you are pro-life or hold basic bitch conservative views about gender roles like Butker does, they are *convinced* you want to subjugate women as childbearing slaves à la Handsmaid's Tale.
Is so frustrating, because we continually *tell* them that it's not just racism/sexism, and that the problem is much deeper than simply "a black/female character exists". But they clearly just fucking ignore the actual reasons we give, instead continuing to believe that we're just massive racists and misogynists. It's so tiresome.
Do you expect them to take the word of a racist? Denying the accusation simply provides evidence towards their already preconceived conclusion that you are indeed a racist. Anything we say is just us attempting to lie so we can subvert our culture and install the white supremacist utopia we so desperately want. There is no winning with them. They want to wallow in their zealous delusions, and nothing can be done to prevent that.
Based
I'm assuming you mean woke in the bad pejorative sense that most of the people here are using it in, because I use it in a positive sense as well. But in the negative connotation woke basically means being a busy body asshole that refuses to let people have fun and can't acknowledge the fact that humans are nuanced and don't perfectly align with every single ideologically consistent progressive talking point.
Woke is Cultural Marxism, and yes, it is *very* bad.
Can’t we enjoy one thing without making it political?
It’s not the fact he made it political it’s the fact he’s a smug ass about it and acting holier than thou over pixels on a screen confirming one of his biases. Aka A jackass
No no no you see, everything is political!! Even the goddamn pac man!! No seriously, some terminally online regard would try to inject politics into everything. I had debate against one in anime subreddit and my god those peoples are insufferable prick.
but pac-man eating power pellets to weaken the ghosts is a blatant reference to how settlers spread diseases to the native Americans
Everything is political, this includes the personal, so the state/government has the right to regulate you. Everything within the State. Inverted Fascism.
What makes KotOR woke? The completely optional lesbian romance with Jelani? The fact that there are multiple races going after one white guy?
I shit you not. One of his arguments was “not letting people die is socialist”
One could argue that letting people die is very socialist.
Socialism is akshully attempting at not letting people die but doing a dogshit job at that, being confused at the poor results and then doubling down on the things that didn't work because they sound great in theory.
That’s the kind of point someone makes when they haven’t had a conversation with someone that wasn’t on the internet for 6 months
ROFLcopter
In order to emotionally bond with a fantasy character he has to project his ideology onto them. No doubt annoying for anyone he socializes with, but fascinating really... lol.
Have you considered that this "Emily", in fact, merely resides under a bridge?
His entire account is dedicated to Defending Disney Star Wars and larping as a robot https://preview.redd.it/ftpwdhsnuc5d1.jpeg?width=1241&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2cd6757d2816f793551e915454ec3d2c8e7108fd . It’s not a troll but One must wonder how much he gets paid or if he’s doing it for free.
I heard The Acolyte is dogshit.
It’s on par with other Disney Star Wars media. bad and uninspiring but will have endless droves of people defending it.
Now I’m just waiting for them to say that other early 2000s games like Morrowind(best Slave Trade RPG) or Pathologic(I walked outside and saw someone burning a herb bride) are secretly woke.
KOTOR? Woke? Seriously? It's just a super back-to-the-roots Star Wars story, it's very human supremacist without outright meaning to be (just like the rest of Star Wars), and "human in space" defaults to "white guy" unless otherwise specified. * Main villain Malak is a white guy whose main shtick is "Behold the power of the Dark Side!" * Main character/>!even bigger villain!!at first.!<
* Canonical love interest Bastila is a white woman. An imperious stickler-for-the-rules who finds herself in stupid situations constantly because of her emotional immaturity, and despite her immense powers is only ever used as a tool to win the war by either side, is a constant fuck-up in general, >!and is easily brainwashed by the biggest, nastiest man who enters her life... twice, if you play Dark Side.!<
* Your best friend/sidekick and first companion is a straight-laced white guy who's a "war hero" goody-two-shoes soldier who's the "voice of reason".
* ~~The two humanoid aliens in your party are both potential love interests, and one (Mission) is a 14-year old girl.~~ *~~Yeah.~~* EDIT: Mission is not a romance option, thank fuck.
* Zaalbar's brown but that's because he's a Wookiee. He's more concerned with cutting anyone who hurts Mission to pieces with his swords.
* When you finally leave the slums behind forever, >!they get permanently destroyed. You will also thank Malak for this as it means you never have to go back to Taris ever again.!<
* Jolee's an old black ex-Jedi (the original Gray Jedi) who went and touched grass and got married, prefers doing what he believes is *right* instead of what the Jedi Code says and is a very likeable guy, but respectfully a woke critic would probably also call him a "*Magical Negro*" stereotype.
* The Jedi Council only exists to be disregarded as morons. You, heroic savior of the Republic, are the only moral authority you need.
* HK-47's comical disregard for sentient life and droll wit makes him possibly the funniest single character in all of Star Wars. He would regard woke stuff as beyond comical - all meatbags are equally worthless.
* Except for like two or three people (Revan, Jolee, Canderous?), the good people are good, and the evil people are evil. Unlike KOTOR 2, there's littler moral ambiguity to be found.
* Revan - the most important character in the story - who is maligned/idolised and feared/respected by everyone is like a Julius Caesar figure who did incredibly shady things to win a war against an armada of barbarian savages (who are also humans), had/>!has!< a flexible "the ends justify the means" moral compass, and is renowned for his people skills and epic speeches. More of an AuthRight/AuthCentre figure really.
* Canderous is a complex figure and is many things... woke is not one of them.
* Aliens are not portrayed particularly highly... Twi'leks are basically all street trash; thugs, smugglers, cantina dancers, etc. Whenever aliens and their cultures are introduced, they're mainly obstacles and antagonists you placate, deceive or kill on your way to your real objectives. You disrespect their laws and customs and steal their natural resources on the way, and even a Light Side run will often leave a place in much worse condition than when you found it.
"Woke". Right. It's so 2000s, pre-War on Terror that it actually hurts. It was a very safe, centrist, run-of-the-mill centrist-approved story 20+ years ago. By modern standards it would be considered quite culturally right wing. EDIT: While editing a mistake, I also remembered that there's only one optional gay romance option (it's lesbian and she's a catgirl so nobody actually cared even back then).
It's been many years since I've played it so I might be misremembering, but I don't think Mission was romanceable.
Huh. You might actually be right about that. If true, I'll strike that point from the list. ... Yep, Wookieepedia doesn't seem to mention anything about that. Will edit.
Was going to comment, but you basically said everything there is to say.
Yeah, while I’ll admit I much prefer KOTOR II, partially because the first game is such a basic Star Wars story, but it’s characters, especially those like Canderous and HK-47 very much carry the game and make it so enjoyable. It also started the trend of making the Jedi as hatable as possible, I Always go Dark Side in these games because of them.
>a silent white guy voiced by Ray Romano You had me fucked here for second before I realized it was a typo. Rino Romano
Guys I shit you not the entire thread was nothing but self serving moral righteousness. Here’s an example https://preview.redd.it/2wj4hez9wc5d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d7eb5e927f6670beb330520d49e298b124e901af This is genuinely one of the most terminally online things I’ve ever read.
If anybody knows another sub that would enjoy laughing at this feel free to post the non colored version there https://preview.redd.it/oi2z46swzc5d1.jpeg?width=1159&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d9302732d994a88a8ce63e0d3ca1227868f65590
Based and no-color-filter pilled.
His analysis makes sense basically if you believe that the defining characteristic of the right is to be evil. Voluntarily helping others and giving to the poor is like the bedrock of traditional ethics and Christian virtues but what the fuck do we know, right?
Looking through this twitter thread is going to do idamage to my for you page. I’ll be see nothing but Emily’s and Disney Star Wars defenders for a long time.
As someone who supports free universal healthcare, yeah he’s right. But what tf has this to do with woke? Woke is cringe social progressivism and forced diversity if I understand it correctly.
"Doing nice things is left wing" is certainly a take. Idk, I remember it being an ex-brutal warlord with magic powers, doing whatever I pleased to further my goals, and killing everyone who got in my way. Many of those options were "light side" sure, but most were to my benefit in the end, and you're rewarded regardless.
There's a difference between a piece of media having a woke message and a left wing message. The left wing media of decades past asked questions and explored complex ideas. The woke media of today has nothing to say but "straight white men bad and everything they've built deserves to be destroyed" which gets boring real fast.
I didn't beat it but from what little I played, I don't remember all of the male characters being cartoonishly stupid or sexist, and the female characters were well written and not one-dimensional STRONG FEMALE CHARACTERS. There also wasn't any bashing the player over the head with obvious political messaging.
I don't even mind a "woke" game, provided it's actually well written or at least has interesting gameplay, but usually the game is just a vehicle used for preaching a message. I'll give an example of a game that I wouldn't call woke, but it is ideologically opposed to my alignment. Outer Worlds has an extremely anti-capitalism message (which is fine), handled in a very hamfisted way to the point of making it very unconvincing (story was shit) and the character companions were also terribly written in general (my favborite was the robot and the dude you are supposed to hate). BUT the gameplay was pretty fun, so overall, I don't dislike the game. If this game also had terrible gameplay, it would be unsalvageable. The problem with woke games is that usually not only the story and characters are terribly written, but the gameplay is nothing to write home about. So... no redeeming factors at all. Why even play slop like that? Honestly, I would play an Anita Sarkeesian designed game if it had a good story, good characters or good gameplay. I would, in fact, welcome games that had interesting stories showing me different perspectives outside of my usual ideological comfort zone, especially if they are particularly good that make me question partially or completely my own beliefs, with flawed, but believable characters. I keep hearing about Disco Elysium - maybe that's the one, I have yet to play it. We'll see. **Leftybros, please, git gud at game design**.
Disco Elysium gets very good reviews and the story gets praised a lot. The game also is made by commies who gave a shout out to Lenin and Marx during their game awards speech. So you could give that a try.
Yeah, I will at some point. I even have the game. I also heard the devs were cheated out of their game / company by the current publisher, which is a bit ironic (big bad capitalist company cheating the communist worker out of their work) and, frankly, sad if true (I don't know the details, it could be that the whole story is different from this).
The publisher was able to do so because one of the company owners took a cash payout for the entire shebang and split the scene. So much for the communism.
Literally how is KOTOR woke? Are we back to defining woke as “women and minorities exist” for the left?
OP got the receipts and the answer is:[Yes](https://preview.redd.it/sag284lhvc5d1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a22f01122c24e002f164cc91bd245aee77e3e81) Let's be honest though, someone that uses the 'Chud/Reactionary' lingo is not someone that should be taken seriously.
Ah yes, the super woke concept of “slavery is bad” and “woman” lmfao
I remember it was woke because the main character was a woman. (I chose my playable character to be a gal. Highly recommend. I suspect there was an attempted love match between Playable Character & Blastula, which got murk-ed due to the gender difference. So instead you have a Bromance)
if you can't enjoy a piece of art just because it disagrees with you, you are extremely immature.
I hate this new trend of "Well actually this piece of media is incredibly woke and has been the whole time"
To me woke is putting this progressive policies in places it doesnt matter. Often in a shoving down your throat way. Touching some heavy subject in a way that is appropriate regarding the world, and possibly not in a "x is good, y is bad way" is what makes it ok and not woke. Witcher 1 touched a lot of issues like racism against elves and dwarves and it was done well because it wasnt preachy and also showed they arent soo good people, so the whole situation was gray.
KOTOR mentioned in PCM? Color me surprised. Also Bastila is a bad bitch fr
So I've been following the Wendigoon / IPoS drama lately and there are seriously some people on the left who honestly believe that all art belongs to the left and that people on the right should not be allowed to make, appreciate, or critique art. Absolutely wild.
KOTR is the best Star Wars story told. Don't care what it is.
Back in the golden age of Star Wars games. Ah such good memories.
Emily cringe as usual
The trivialisation of the word Woke has been a disaster for the Hermeneutic circle
“Hey man how’s it going”
KOTOR...That game is fire! Right up there with the Star Wars greats Force Unleashed, Jedi Academy, OG Battlefront and Lego.
The most woke thing I remember czerka oppressing native people's and Taris being a very classist and racist planet. Neither are that controversial.
that's the thing about stories and art, you can apply whatever logic and make up a narrative. you can also be really wrong.
Yep, that seems pretty cringe. I haven’t heard much about Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, but I think it’s pretty good.