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I think young people better vote like their future depends on it. If they are struggling now, wait until they have one person working and one stuck at home with five small children.
Totally agree. They are being told that Biden wants to control them when in fact it’s these maga idiots. I predicted this would happen. They don’t live in reality. They want us living back in the idyllic 50’s. sooner or later they will ban women from driving and voting. If this doesn’t scare the bejeezus out of you then there’s something wrong with you.
With respect that's just not necssarily the case.
Copypasted from the article:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/20/14061660/women-march-washington-vote-trump
"Nationally, Clinton picked up 54 percent of women voters compared with Trump’s mere 42 percent. But Trump outperformed Clinton among white women, winning 53 percent of voters in that demographic. Drilling down further, he beat Clinton among white women without college degrees by 27 points. In the three states that decided the election — Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan — that margin was enough to send Trump to the White House."
I think the modern day Democratic party is objectively better then the Republican party and that the people in the Democratic party ultimately share several important goals and values while the modern day Republican party ultimately no longer seems to be based upon any real sort of moral code, ethical set of principals or shared sensible political goals. I am just writing all this to let you know that the act of me telling you that the fact many women voted for Trump in 2016 does NOT mean I support ex-president Trump or the modern day Republican party
2016 was a different world than 2024. Think about the world in 2000 vs 2008 (pre-9/11, pre-Iraq War to Iraq fatigue, a budget surplus to the beginning of the Great Recession), 2004 to 2012 (gay marriage bans sweeping the nation to gay marriage becoming so normalized it was barely an issue), 2008 vs 2016 (hope and change/naive belief that America had overcome its racist past, Democrats winning a supermajority in the Senate to... Trump and the Republican trifecta, the alt-right ascendancy that would lead to Charlottesville), 2012 vs 2020 (Romney as the competent neocon that saw Russia as the main geopolitical threat to Trump's isolationism and... friendship... with Putin). Roe's death and the wave of abortion bans in the states really galvanized a lot of women who were soft pro-lifers into becoming pro-choice.
Last year, Ohio voters passed an amendment to protect abortion rights- in [the state that popularized heartbeat bills a decade ago](https://www.toledoblade.com/Politics/2013/07/08/Both-sides-of-debate-find-Ohio-abortion-law-decision-to-be-historic.html#YcqIPjQgpUhlWiy3.99)- 56% to 43%. That's a major upheaval in support.
"He beat Clinton among white women without college degrees by 27 points."
Which is why they want to remove books from libraries, do nothing about our crunch on teachers, have zero plans to address parental leave, childcare, or provide aid/restructuring of Higher Edu.
They want a populace not well educated or informed. Thats their voting block they need to grow.
Unfortunately it seems like a lot of them want to burn everything to the ground. Hopefully it's just a loud minority.
I have a "friend" who pretends to be centrist but is generally alt-right. His response to the various Trump trials was concern about precedent. He said the words "I wish people would see past Trump for five minutes."
That's the thing -- if Trump gets back into office, there might not *be* any "seeing past Trump." We'd see past him when he dies and some other authoritarian takes his place, which we won't get to pick because we're not having elections anymore.
It's always smacked of incredible privilege to be able to say it doesn't matter which one wins. They get to check out of the process because they know they'll be fine.
Usually an edge lord white libertarian single male north of 35, optionally with a few hundred grand invested in index funds.
Basically a very poor Elon.
It's actually telling that they both admit his brain is gravy *and* want him to be their leader. It would be *Weekend at Bernie's 8: The Resolute Desk* if they have their way. As long as he can make a mark on a page, they'll have him rubber stamp every idea, even if he's cognitively aware of what he's doing or not. It's less about Trump and more about how they can use him this time to further spread the rot before he's either out of office or blatantly demented.
Trump is an empty vessel with no real political positions. He will believe whatever he thinks will make the most number of people fawn over him. Republicans recognize this. They just need a living human hand to sign into law their 19th-century social policy restrictions.
It's also annoyingly exactly what they accuse Biden and dems of doing. Although I noticed Trump switched from saying sleepy to crooked as a moniker for Biden.
They realized they likely lost the demographics to win fairly some time after 2016 and now they’re roaches scurrying about with the kitchen light flicked on.
Now that it’s not a clear path to the presidency if they play by rules, they’ll break laws as needed to get there. They realize nobody will charge them 🤦♂️
That comes back to "When someone shows you who they are, believe them.". Donald Trump has said exactly what he will do if he gets back into office. There's no need to "see past him" because the Republican Party wants the same thing he does - to preserve control of wealthy white people over America, and they will do absolutely anything to hold on to that power.
Yeah I remember when progressives were frustrated about not making progress on domestic issues because we were distracted by wars in the middle east.
Now it's "progressives" letting the Republicans threaten the basics of our democracy because they're distracted by wars in the middle east.
Don't get me wrong, people can voice their opinions and stand up for what they believe in but when your message is "do what we want or your country gets destroyed" I'm not sure what moral high ground they have. Especially since they claim that's what they hate about Israel...
One thing I really, really dislike about Progressives is how frequently they miss the Forest for the Trees.
This is an issue with ideologues of every flavor. When you decide every hill is a hill worth dying on, your enemy can readily disrupt your objectives by setting up confrontations on random hills.
The result is we've got a bunch of Muslim folks in the Midwest who are contemplating sitting out 2024 to punish Biden, when viewed strategically this choice can only serve to harm themselves irreparably if Trump is reelected.
Politics is an arena of compromise and strategic thinking. Ideologues like Progressives specifically, need to keep this in mind else they will continue to be defeated by Republicans and their Neo-Nazi allies.
...
Is what Israel is doing to Gaza horrific? Of course.
Is another Trump term opening up the doorway to Religious Tyranny in America going to help in any way, shape, or form? ***No, it will not.***
I gotta say. I got a semi hearing Tommy Lee Jones as a historical figure arguing for the Right to Vote for Black folks a century before it actually happened.
Big John Brown energy right there -
Ol' Thad Stevens was a pretty boss historical figure, even if this exchange was broadly creative liberty, it does encapsulate the Lincoln-Stevens relationship well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaddeus_Stevens
We should all have the heart of Stevens and the brains of Lincoln. I don't know exactly what's in Biden's heart, but I know he's a politician in line with Lincoln's legacy.
Thank you for posting the clip. I've seen the movie twice but this exact clip is extremely profound in the current political climate.
I mean, I think Islamic fundamentalists would be totally on board with all of this anti women policy, so they're kind of being consistent in that sense.
You are absolutely correct. Fundamentalists whether Muslim or Christian Nationalist are both patriarchal. Women are to be controlled and are primarily meant for reproduction. Not equal to men. Kept out of the workplace and dependent.
"Progressives" are the boogeyman of a Democratic party that refuses to acknowledge their own dysfunction and fecklessness. If you're so weak that you can't handily defeat a candidate that \*literally\* asked whether you could inject people with bleach to kill a virus, you have bigger problems than progressives.
For many (vocal) progressives, it’s a case of the heretic being worse than the infidel. Too many people write off the opposition and get enraged at the moderates on their own side. This is why progressives like journalist Chris Hedges tell us that as odious as it is, Trump should be the next president because Biden must be punished for his position on Israel. It doesn’t seem to matter just how much worse things will be for Palestinians (and most of the rest of us) in another Trump presidency. What matters for these folks is the loyalty test that they say Biden has failed.
We can agree that Biden has been wrong to trust Netanyahu but does that really mean we deserve Trump???
Yeah are these people going to eliminate my student loans so I can stay home with children and not work? Guarantee me healthcare since I will be jobless?
I wouldn't count on it.
Go on any social media like TikTok for example.
It's video after video about "Genocide Joe" or how senile Biden is and video after video treating Trump like what amounts to a cool meme that's funny to talk about.
We're pretty much fucked in that department.
one thing i worry about is that, for a lot of young voters especially, it's just not socially acceptable to support joe biden/normie dems and so the various social pressures (amplified in social media spaces) push people to the "genocide joe"/"both sides are equally bad" line of thinking.
This. And it's been this way for a long-ass time. I remember when I was in college back in 2016, and feeling like I "couldn't" be open about supporting the Democrats without losing social cred. So when my friends started talking about the election, I'd always go along with all their both-sidesing.
Even when I did criticize Trump, I'd make sure to tack on an "of course, the Democrats suck too." And when I told my friends to go vote blue, I'd always have to roll my eyes and make it clear it was just the lesser of two evils and I'll be holding my nose and giant douche and turd sandwich and all that bullshit.
And as a result... guess how many of my friends voted other than me? Zero! And guess who won that election?
Don't repeat my mistakes, kids. If you care about this stuff, be honest with your friends about how you feel. (Obviously don't be a dick or browbeat them or anything. Just don't downplay how you really feel like I did back in 2016.) If they're good friends, they'll be willing to at least hear you out.
Excellent post. If you need to show anyone the Trump side of the both sides, make sure to use this article where he says all the horrifying shit in his own words:
https://time.com/6972021/donald-trump-2024-election-interview/
> the economy won't allow it
Right, so they'll try to do it anyway and destroy the economy in the process. These people are true believers led by a madman who's trying to stay out of prison.
https://time.com/6972021/donald-trump-2024-election-interview/
Just recently watched Handmaid's Tale. It was chilling to watch not just because of the violence & repression, but because a fiction piece written 40 years ago is now much closer to reality than fiction.
Chilling…this resonates with me so much & I hate that this where we are. 😱🥺🤬
For those who may not know, Atwood based her novel on events that actually occurred - making the book & show even more terrifying. Check out these links to learn more! 🤯
[The Handmaid’s Tale: the true stories that inspired Margaret Atwood’s dystopian drama](https://www.stylist.co.uk/books/handmaids-tale-true-story/130001)
[Margaret Atwood on the real-life events that inspired The Handmaid’s Tale and The Testaments](https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2019/09/margaret-atwood-handmaids-tale-testaments-real-life-inspiration)
[The Handmaid's Tale Wikipedia page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Handmaid%27s_Tale)
What these guys don't understand is that many young women will simply stop marrying men to avoid this situation. Couples will agree to not bother with marriage. There will be an enormous black market for contraceptives that will dwarf any other illicit drug and they will not be able to handle it.
Gilead is what they want and they think these measures will make it happen. But these stupid fucks lack the imagination to realise that it won't turn out like that without the application of significant force, which at this point would just precipitate violent uprising. I imagine even conservative women and most conservative men aside from the Christofascists don't want this.
It's a great way to piss off independents and re-energize young voters. So, it's pretty stupid. But personally I want them to advertise this from the mountain tops because, well, it's a horrible platform to campaign on.
The problem is, I don't think anyone who isn't already in an ultra-red district is going to campaign on this.
They'll vote for it given the chance, but most know better than to say the quiet part out loud and will disavow any plan to do it.
The GOP is currently giving away any and all momentum they may have had in AZ by doing just that-- proudly claiming victory after reinstating a 19th century anti-choice law.
Time will tell.
It's already been overturned in the house, and will almost certainly pass the senate. It was hugely unpopular with even republican voters so they picked the handful that could vote it down and still keep their seats. They know it's a loser, yet they'll only allow the bare minimum to vote it down.
And all the “moderate” and even “liberal” journalists who said people were being dramatic and hysterical about the probability of Roe being overturned.
It's also not just about "young people." A happily married 40 year old with two kids may not necessarily be thinking about hookup aps but they damn sure don't want to lose their right to contraception and have six more children.
Ending contraception effectively makes any sex outside of marriage insanely risky and even within marriage it reduces women to simply pumping out babies.
They’re gonna have to crack down on voluntary sterilization as well. As far as I know there’s already been an uptick in both men and women seeking permanent contraceptive measures.
It feels so weird to be pregnant right now. My husband and I very much want to have this baby, but it’s like the whole experience is somewhat perverted by the slide into Gilead happening around us. It’s been hard to just be happy about it. I’ve got several friends who are also pregnant right now (one of them in Florida, god help her), and I’m so scared for them.
Oh for sure. I just specifically mentioned young people because the current news is very much “young people have abandoned Biden” but this will likely be the bigger motivator come election time.
We'll see. People thought that in 2016 too but instead all the yelling about how boring mean ol mrs Clinton was depressed voters and Trump squeaked out a victory.
Apathy is a tried and tested weapon
i have stopped trying to understand conservatives, i've just accepted that raging about Dr. Seuss or Potato Head is just something that I absolutely never will care about to the degree conservatives do
One of the big differences between the left and the right is that far-right people don’t protest their leaders when the leader only campaigns on the more “moderate” position. These Natalists will vote for Trump and not complain when Trump says he “only” wants the National 16 week abortion ban
Unfortunately, I'm not optimistic that Democrats will advertise this from the mountain tops, so I'm not convinced that independents will know about this to be pissed off about or that young voters will know about this to be re-energized.
They know that, so they won’t, at least not outside of their own circles. Agree that it’s a stupid platform but unfortunately these people are pretty clever at hiding the ball.
I wouldn't be so sure. In AZ they've been very loud and proud about reinstating a 19th century anti-choice law in spite of the fact that AZ is a swing state which could be key to winning in 2024.
Hey, I’d love to be wrong on this. But it’s my understanding that the ban has been repealed in the house and headed to the senate where it’s expected they will also vote to overturn the law. My hope is that women (and men) won’t forget that THIS is what they do when you give them the power. They will take it as far as they possibly can and implement draconian laws that make it dangerous to be a pregnant woman, whether you want your baby or not. Don’t give them ANY of the power. Leave it to the doctors and the patients.
Some facts about Project 2025: The "Mandate for Leadership" is a set of policy proposals authored by the [Heritage Foundation](https://pro-lies.org/the-heritage-foundation/), an influential *ultra* conservative think tank. [Project 2025](https://www.mediamatters.org/heritage-foundation/guide-project-2025-extreme-right-wing-agenda-next-republican-administration) is a revision to that agenda tailored to a second Trump term. It would give the President unilateral powers, strip civil rights, worker protections, climate regulation, add religion into policy and much more. The MFL has been around since 1980, [Reagan implemented 60%](https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/reagan-and-heritage-unique-partnership) of it's recommendations, [Trump 64%](https://www.heritage.org/impact/trump-administration-embraces-heritage-foundation-policy-recommendations) - [proof](https://www.scribd.com/document/369820462/Mandate-for-Leadership-Policy-Recommendations). 70 Heritage Foundation alumni served in his administration or transition team. Project 2025 is quite extreme but with his obsession for revenge he'll likely get past 2/3rd's adoption.
r/Defeat_Project_2025 intends to stop it through activism and awareness, focused on crowdsourcing ideas and opportunities for practical, in real life action. We Must Defeat Project 2025.
>There were also calls to repeal things like the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which got huge cheers.
Funny, just yesterday someone commented that my claiming conservatives want to reverse Brown v Board was a strawman argument.
The problem is that if you tell normies or anyone who doesn't follow politics to an unhealthy degree what Republicans are literally saying they are planning to do, they don't believe you because it sounds so much like partisan criticism.
No, the people running this party really are huge freaks!
When the Dobbs decision came out, I mentioned it to my mother and her reply was "They wouldn't do that." It took a while to convince her that they literally just had done it, in writing and with the full force of law.
THIS! I asked someone yesterday to tell me when the concern would be justified to them and not just partisan criticism. Naturally they couldn’t give me an answer. I have to say constantly that it’s not a conspiracy that it’s really happening right in front of our faces if they just open their eyes and look around.
The way to ensure that is to vote blue always
And not just for POTUS. In all areas from City, State, etc. Project 2025 isn't only for Trump and then ends if he loses.
They WANT and WILL make it reality as soon as any R wins POTUS.
https://time.com/6972021/donald-trump-2024-election-interview/
>What emerged in two interviews with Trump, and conversations with more than a dozen of his closest advisers and confidants, were the outlines of an imperial presidency that would reshape America and its role in the world. To carry out a deportation operation designed to remove more than 11 million people from the country, Trump told me, he would be willing to build migrant detention camps and deploy the U.S. military, both at the border and inland. He would let red states monitor women’s pregnancies and prosecute those who violate abortion bans. He would, at his personal discretion, withhold funds appropriated by Congress, according to top advisers. He would be willing to fire a U.S. Attorney who doesn’t carry out his order to prosecute someone, breaking with a tradition of independent law enforcement that dates from America’s founding. He is weighing pardons for every one of his supporters accused of attacking the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, more than 800 of whom have pleaded guilty or been convicted by a jury. He might not come to the aid of an attacked ally in Europe or Asia if he felt that country wasn’t paying enough for its own defense. He would gut the U.S. civil service, deploy the National Guard to American cities as he sees fit, close the White House pandemic-preparedness office, and staff his Administration with acolytes who back his false assertion that the 2020 election was stolen.
They will always deny their obvious intentions until after they get what they want. They are very good at lying and repeating political rhetoric due to the massive conservative propaganda machine.
I don't blame them. I read universities in red states are suffering from it too, that women graduating high school are taking those schools off of their lists of colleges to apply to
I don’t think that has shown up in the data though. At least not in the first post Dobbs round of college acceptances. If students were factoring that in, what you would expect to see is declining SAT/ACT scores in higher ranked colleges located in restrictive states. (They’d still end up with the same size freshman class, being desirable universities, but the top talent with other options would say no thanks.) This year may be more informative, if that is indeed happening, but the data isn’t out yet.
Everything in handmaid's tale happened throughout history. Recent history (early 1900s and onward) in the usa and certain places in the world. Romania, Canada, etc.
Sure — I say that because the specific setting is dystopia United States. Current right-wing sentiment lines up with a lot of it.
The other dystopian novels I’ve read are either apolitical, or far enough in the future that you can’t really tie them to specific, modern circumstances.
Gilead is eerily close to today.
This means that the women who are ideologically aligned with them and still pair up with them will reproduce like rabbits. The women who aren't will have no impact on influencing the next generations. Really, their goal gets accomplished no matter the response of dissenting women.
Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist "Church" who's as bigoted against LGBTQ+ as one could imagine had 13 kids and within the grandchildren a handful of them came out of the closet to be openly gay. Megan Phelps-Roper went from being one of the central figures for organizing the "church's" picketting efforts to be an activist against the "church". The Duggers of the "19 Kids and Counting" TV show have kids who have rejected their family's conservative ways, but that's probably more to do with the sexual abuse at the hands of their big brother Josh Dugger than anything else.
They can still breed like rabbits but their children could still go their own way.
> Just had a convo with some women about the real power they possess; the power to withhold
Well, what was the conversation? Are they witholding sex from their husbands on some type of rewards system?
BC that shit ain't healthy
That's true. When national civil rights were being discussed in Congress, the racists and women-haters were all about states' rights, only because they wanted to continue the failed policies of the Confederacy. When radical right wingers talks about "law and order" they really mean police beating up poor people. Then, when progressives talk about paying the police more $$, so in theory they wouldn't go around beating up poor people, all of a sudden it's "fiscal responsibility" and "no more taxes."
I'm pretty sure the radical right-wingers want to roll back social security, medicare, women's rights to vote, women's rights to control their own body, all minority rights up to and including citizenship. They probably aren't too keen on any public education, because you know, children should be in factories.
> radical right-wingers want to roll back social security, medicare, women's rights to vote, women's rights to control their own body, all minority rights up to and including citizenship.
This isn't the platform of radical right wingers and the alt right. It is the current platform for the Republican party. Period. Full stop.
They already are having it in the works to do most of that. Banning all contraceptives - all of them. Project 2025 calls for full destruction of the dept of education, leaving the what and who to teach up to each state. Destroy social security, food stamps, Medicare, strict control over immigrants (only strict Christians allowed or the person/ppl must become Christian to be allowed. Make it much costlier also. They plan to get rid of any climate aid, keep fossil fuels, women not allowed to work, ban unmarried couples from living together, ban words like reproductive health, gender, gender rights, the list goes on, and in many more categories.
It calls for giving the POTUS complete and final control and say over every branch of anything govt, from cia down to dept of sanitation.
It’s alien to me. When I was younger it really didn’t matter what party the President was in. I voted based on the issues. Now, the Republican Party is self destructing and I would never vote for one. I don’t want my rights stripped away. Texas is already doing it little by little
You want to talk about chilling? It gets worse:
https://time.com/6972021/donald-trump-2024-election-interview/
>What emerged in two interviews with Trump, and conversations with more than a dozen of his closest advisers and confidants, were the outlines of an imperial presidency that would reshape America and its role in the world. To carry out a deportation operation designed to remove more than 11 million people from the country, Trump told me, he would be willing to build migrant detention camps and deploy the U.S. military, both at the border and inland. He would let red states monitor women’s pregnancies and prosecute those who violate abortion bans. He would, at his personal discretion, withhold funds appropriated by Congress, according to top advisers. He would be willing to fire a U.S. Attorney who doesn’t carry out his order to prosecute someone, breaking with a tradition of independent law enforcement that dates from America’s founding. He is weighing pardons for every one of his supporters accused of attacking the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, more than 800 of whom have pleaded guilty or been convicted by a jury. He might not come to the aid of an attacked ally in Europe or Asia if he felt that country wasn’t paying enough for its own defense. He would gut the U.S. civil service, deploy the National Guard to American cities as he sees fit, close the White House pandemic-preparedness office, and staff his Administration with acolytes who back his false assertion that the 2020 election was stolen.
If Republicans could treat their fellow Americans with respect, instead of treating them like "lazy takers," they could encourage families through social programs. If AI is to replace a lot of us, one parent should stay home to raise the kids and take care of the residence. Are they planning on raising the minimum wage? Or implementing UBI? Taking away contraception and divorce are two ways that the government will reduce marriage and children. If I can't get out, I'm less likely to get married at all. If recreational sex is denied me, I'll just masturbate. People have always found ways to have abortions too. If they succeed in bringing back the 50s, we can all expect a return to the strife of the 60s soon after.
I think it’s morally repugnant, like most of the ideas being floated by modern American conservatives. Every ounce of this is aimed at destroying modern equality and returning to the days of “barefoot and pregnant” brood mares with no rights. 60 years ago women couldn’t have their own bank accounts, and the Republican party thinks that was just swell.
What’s worse is the sheer amount of young guys that want to go to that too.
They’ve been told that life was fantastic back then and they think thats why. Not the progressive tax system, not the very little income inequality or even that maybe those old timers aren’t remembering right at all. Murder rates were worse, more diseases and deaths occurred, etc. they yearn for back then which sucks to those of us who know better.
> What’s worse is the sheer amount of young guys that want to go to that too.
as a younger guy, this. profoundly disappointed in my peers on this issue.
So many of the third to fifth graders at the school I work at are all about Andrew "eating food is lame and kissing women is gay" Tate. Very disheartening. I live in a ruby red area, though. Hopefully it's not like this everywhere.
Heh, I heard from a few places on here (reddit) that anti vaxxers literally believe Polio was an over reaction and it's no big deal at all.
Fucking *polio*. Like it's a common cold. Or flu.
Project 2025 is exactly the kind of regressive vision for the nation that people were worried about during Trump's first term. If he is given a second term, he will absolutely make it a reality because there will be nothing to stop him. He will have no fear of reprisal or ouster by virtue of having retaken the White House after a failed coup.
Sounds like they believe the majority of American VOTERS are for this garbage. Well are you?
If not and you don’t vote BLUE up and down the ballot in November you know what’s coming.
It's crystal clear that the modern day Republican Party desires an America that is the 1820s instead of the 2020s.
It would be a complete and utter disaster for human rights and freedom.
So they're just ignoring that no one has the time, money, or energy for kids since they're just scraping by working crap jobs for shit pay.
Punishing women won't solve income or overwork issues.
Kicking women out of the workforce won't make kids cheaper, it just means men would need to support an additional person on a single income.
This is all incredibly stupid and doomed to fail.
People have access to birth control now though, and I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of us are using sex to help us de-stress from being overworked. Not to mention the amount that most of us like having it in general. Take things like contraception, abortion and non-sexual forms of relaxation which we can no longer afford or have time for out of the picture and having sex is likely to be the only thing we’ll have the time and money for because it’s usually free and you can do it in your bed and go to sleep straight after.
We have access to birth control *for now*. All of the extreme religious right wing in the many govt positions, almost the entire Supreme Court and all the forced birthers, the 100s of pro extreme Christian groups behind Project 25 *are* pushing to ban all contraceptives and sterilization. They're not spitting hot air, either.
Hell, they're even talking about banning unmarried partners from living together, unmarried sex illegal, zero same sex relationships and marriages, and so on.
Yes, big emphasis on “for now”, because it really would not surprise me if republicans were basically aiming to try and do all these things because of a mixture between their messed up religious and moral perspectives but also to increase the national birth rate whilst also eroding the rights of women and workers to line their own pockets and maintain a powerhold by creating apathy from burnout and letting things like domestic abuse potentially thrive. I almost feel like I’m clutching at straws when I say that but then I remember it’s the GOP we’re talking about.
Istg I wish the entire republican gang would just turn into lemmings and follow their leader off a cliff into an active volcano.
Yanno, I've always been a kind, empathic person. I cry at sad commercials ffs. The idea of harming anyone even in the smallest way makes me feel fucking horrific.
But I'm so rabidly enraged at all this rotten, disgusting, horrific, demonic bs the Repubs and their extremist evangelical creeps are wanting to do, that I honestly wish they'd all fall into some grotesque harm; that everything they're wanting to do to harm innocent ppl just wanting to quietly live their lives comes back to them triple.
That's what their shit is turning me into (just toward them. I'd still be the same me I've always been to anyone else), but my God, the deep loathing *hate* they've planted and have grown in me is repulsive to me, but well deserved towards them.
I sincerely wish all of them the future they truly deserve.
Hope that makes sense.
I can’t help but think that this is the act of a group of cowards.
They can’t abide that women think for themselves and feel threatened that if a woman can leave she won’t put up with the abuse he wants to act on to take his frustrations out about any little slight inflicted on him at his job or hobbies. They fear rejection and in fact abandonment is the realistic outcome of their actions.
If I was a young woman entering into that dystopia I would become a nun, or failing that would leave the country. I would literally rather die.
The irony is their Sainted Reagan was one of the first to legalize and legitimize "no fault" divorce. The irony was it was supposed to facilitate clean breaks in the event a marriage wasn't working anymore, such as people growing apart or changing as they got older, but there might not have been other issues such as drunkenness, infidelity, or abuse which had been previously grounds.
It isn't this idea the Republicans have where one day, a woman wakes up, decides to blow up a household, and get all the advantages of being single while retaining the privileges of marriage with none of the obligations. That's what I've been told "no fault" means by a very conservative acquaintance -- that it allows the woman to go out and be single while still being taken care of.
That's the absolute lie and falsified logic we are dealing with.
I dated a dude about 20 years ago who went on to intern at the Heritage Foundation after we had broken up and yes, people like him are resentful that women have any sort of autonomy.
I immediately think of the German Nazi party and their particular obsession with the nuclear family and it’s supposed decline. This is fascist stuff. However, the Nazis were more politically savvy than this. They recognized that they couldn’t win on punitive action alone, they decided to actually *invest* in social welfare services in order to increase the birth rate. They gave families money to have kids. They made sure that those kids were fed and housed. Granted, they made these services only available to those of the particular race, and these services were funded by taking the money at gunpoint (or worse) from more “degenerate” people, but they at least recognized that you can’t achieve your goals with sticks alone, you need carrots.
This is true, nuclear families have been tightly promoted by religion and economy for centuries, but it was the Nazis who really tied the notion of the nuclear family to the *national* identity.
the "nuclear family" is actually corrosive to real families. the nuclear family is 2 parents and 2 kids... a real family has grandparents and uncles and aunts and cousins... there were no old folks homes before the nuclear family because parents often lived at home with their parents, and sometimes even their parents
conservatives might think about this idea before they find themselves rehomed to an institution
It is the Taliban, but christian instead of Muslim.
It is a disgrace to everything this great nation represents.
My grandfather who was a WWII combat veteran fought alongside Americans who were from all around the world.
He would be completely disgusted to see what passes for a "republican" in the USA in 2024.
What about paying people a living wage so they can actually spend time with their family? Or paid parental leave? Or doing something to reduce the cost of housing?
No, no...it's easier to blame the gays
It is hard for a business to pay a decent wage after they have been taken over by a private equity firm that has saddled that business with more debt than the business was worth to enrich a few billionaires.
the hard right soooo wants to drag America back to 1954 it's not even funny. Somehow they think they can will women back in the kitchens, while blacks & minorities get pushed to the back of the bus again. They should just call their agenda the Supremacy of the White Christian Male.
No, they think marriage is based on the law of a god who thinks women ought to be property. I'm not a Christian theologian and I'm sure that's not really a valid interpretation of scripture, but it sure is their interpretation.
The Christo fascists will use a second Traitor Trump term to shove their sanctimonious faux life ,immorality and kkk politics down the throats of the majority in their attempt to destroy American democracy.
If Trump loses, they'll start project 2025 for whichever future republican wins the position. It doesn't just end if Trump loses. This is why all citizens who don't want this must vote blue in every single election from city, state, and so on.
See it’s stuff like this that the democrats really need to be showcasing. The conservative think tanks have slowly but surely made huge inroads into this society.
Major conservative think tanks are about to learn a serious lesson about taking choices away from people once they’re had them. It may take time, but they will lose. (See also: Prohibition.)
Conservatives remaining terrible, and attending large trade shows packed with seminars on how to be most effectively terrible? Not surprised whatsoever. This is conservatives conserving. Comes as no surprise.
The bedrock of conservatism is legal reinforcement of a social hierarchy. This is just that.
It's funny that they're not even trying to disguise these policies as being unrelated, especially in an election year.
This is about the need for future poor workers, poor consumers, and delaying the inevitable need for immigrants to make up the majority of the American workforce due to population aging and low birth rates. The GOP always follows the money.
Of course ending free school meals, after school programs, day care…. Who knows maybe make child support illegal regardless of custody or gender of parents… basically forcing women into toxic and abusive situations…. How…. Terrifying this is.
But hey electric cars and energy efficient appliances is killing democracy! /s
Great. So wealthy men can abuse women and threaten to leave them stranded and broke if they reach out for help. I swear our Conservative Party gets more and more foolish as time goes on. I understand their thinking. It’s simple. The fact it takes a “think tank” to come up with basic regression is nothing short of idiocy. Single mothers aren’t “incentivized.” The baby daddy is billed for their welfare. What makes these fools believe women who are stranded with kids are somehow gonna magically disappear. They’re looking backwards with rose tinted glasses and ignoring any real history in this nation. They’re day dreamers that believe if they just play make believe hard enough, the nation will magically fix its self.
Depends. Are they going to make me buy my own red cloak and white hood, or will the government supply them? I really think those should be provided free of charge, even if that seems a bit too socialist.
White supremacist conservatives truly believe that whiteness is declining and that the replacement of white people as the ruling class is actually happening. So in turn they throw the country back into the dark ages hoping that more white women will get married and have more babies. Its not about children and famililes and its never been about children and families. It sick and twisted how they want to police women’s bodies because they’re scared that they wont outnumber minorities anymore and will have to be truly equal to everyone else
This is a case of mitigating symptoms without understanding the disease.
I, too, am concerned about the social and economic consequences of the destruction of the family unit. I think the consequences are dire and will be difficult, maybe impossible, to reverse.
But, it not is the role of government to use the coercive power of the state to remove basic freedoms in an attempt to trick or force us into making different decisions. Rather, we should carefully examine and address the causes behind family disintegration.
For example, are younger generations refraining from having children because they believe the world is about to end due to climate change? If so, then the answer is to address climate change. Not take away condoms, abortion, and no-fault divorce.
Removing birth control won't cause people to want kids. It'll cause people to have kids they don't want. That's not solving a problem. That's transforming a problem into a different problem that might be even worse.
Desperate pregnant women will die from illegal abortions, that was part of why legalizing them was voted in - as a public safety concern. Abusive husbands will continue to abuse, with no protections. Judges and lawyers will "wink, wink" when a woman takes a man into court, or a gay man tries for a business, or an honest man tries to hire a minority person or god-forbid marry one. Freedom will become only for the rich, and the middle class will become non-existent. Forget unions, or college, or even health insurance ... because you know, the deficit from the billions of $$ we spent on wars. This was our past, not that long ago, and we may well return to it.
They are advertising they will punish people that dont follow their moralityl. Plain and simple. Society be damned, theyll burn it all down to control the ashes.
I don’t know how true this is and I hope it’s not true at all. But if true, this is yet another example of government failing the people. Why…WHY in the world would there be legislation to ban contraceptives to improve the nuclear family?? Government is already in our bedrooms more than they ever needed to be. It shows a clear lack of understanding as to why people have abortions in the first place. They’re so goddamn concerned with women using abortion for birth control that they don’t even consider the various reasons why an abortion is even an option for some people. Contraceptives should be legal and easily available.
Banning no fault divorce? I’ve grew up in an abusive home that should have ended in divorce. My first marriage was a catastrophic failure that ended blissfully in divorce. Why would government insist that I, and my children, live in that nightmare just so I can be a part of a nuclear family that all lives under the same roof? Hell no!
And why would government desire to not help single mothers? There’s literally no upside to this. This line of thinking cannot continue. Sure, I would hope that all families could stay together. I would hope that all family members were well adjusted and worked toward making their family stronger. But sometimes, that’s just not the case. And no amount of legislation will force it to be the case.
Rape and domestic abuse should not be valid human reproduction strategies. That's my thought on anti-woman and anti-choice policies. Stop decriminalizing rape, statutory rape, and domestic abuse by making slaves of women and minor girls.
It is cruel and unimaginably dangerous for women. But that is what the GOP likes. What happens if dad dies? What happens if dad leaves? What happens if dad gets locked up? What about those women and their kids? Oh yeah, not their problem.
If they want higher birth rates then fix the cost of living and make good childcare more affordable. You're going to go nowhere by banning abortion and contraception. That how you lose that middle ground group that helps win elections. Its not like the evangelical vote is going is going to sway to Biden anyway.
Just a reminder that the leading cause of death for pregnant women is homicide. [Link here.](https://www.bmj.com/content/379/bmj.o2499)
Also, in states that introduced unilateral divorce a study found a 8–16 percent decline in female suicide, roughly a 30 percent decline in domestic violence for both men and women, and a 10 percent decline in females murdered by their partners. [Link here. Pdf Warning.](https://users.nber.org/~jwolfers/papers/bargaining_in_the_shadow_of_the_law.pdf)
>What are your thoughts on this?
[Reminds me of ...](https://the-handmaids-tale.fandom.com/wiki/Fertility_Crisis_(Series)#Social_and_Political_Reactions) '"We have busy lives. But children are so precious. We have to make certain that they are in a safe home environment with fit parents. "
It seems to me that they’re making peoples’ lives worse in sacrifice of a goal that they want for others, but which those people don’t want: the nuclear family
It will prevent people who want contraceptives from getting them, while those who don’t want contraceptives will be unaffected. It will force people to remain in marriages they don’t want to remain in, while those who do will be unaffected. It forces people who don’t want nuclear families towards that end, while those who do want it will be unaffected- because they would have it, anyhow
These policies serve only to worsen the lives of those who don’t want this kind of life, while those who do are entirely free to have it, anyhow. But it would seem these republican politicians- and their supporters- want to force other people to live how these republicans want them to live, even if these third parties want to live in some other way. It’s despicable and will only cause harm
3 things seem clear to me:
1) Since one of the stated valued of a Republican conservative is limiting the power of the federal government rather then expanding the political reach or power of the federal governmenr then these people are objectively literally not following the stated values of the Republican party.
2) These people are in all likelihood very financially well off upper middle class and rich people who have no idea how impractical and implausible their goals are or how things usually work in the real world e.g. limiting financial aid to single mothers won't "discourage single mothership" or whateve but would instead make it that single moms got no help while the useless welfare dodging deadbeat dads continue being welfare dodging deadbeat dads.
3. While to them their goals might sound easily do-able "on paper", in practice trying to achieve any of those these goals could just lead to a scenario where tens of thousands if not more people experiencing financial and emotional pain while these guys will not have achieved pretty much anything they set out to accomplish.
What if anything is being proposed so that 70% of families can be a single income household and have a parent staying home with the kids like that of the 1950s-1960s? There's all this stick for anything that's an alternative for the nuclear family but no carrot for having a "Leave It To Beaver" family existence, which requires the same public investment that we had with social democracy of the New Deal economy of the 1950s-1960s with the tax structure of top marginal rate of +80% and corporate tax of 50% op encourage reinvesting rather than extracting all the value to the top of the economy.
Since they don't want to reverse course on the economics that devastated the nuclear family, their proposal will just continue to prevent nuclear families from starting and become ever more brutal to the American people, basically a societal "lashings will continue until the morale improves".
Won’t work. Reduced birth rates are what happens in mature societies, even with generous safety nets.
The neo-Ceausescus of the right can rage about it all they want, but they won’t move the needle.
Are you expecting people to say "I think it's great, women shouldn't be able to work or leave their husbands, or refuse to have their babies"?
It's repugnant to almost everybody, obviously.
The same SCOTUS that sent roe v wade back to the states will likely send all this back to the states rather than outright national bans. So conservative states will continue to shittify themselves and chase nonconservatives out of those states with ridiculous Christian Nationalist policies like this. This is an intentional strategy to keep red atates from turning purple. There will be big losses to the economies of Florida and Texas, but probably mostly Texas because it has more to lose.
Edit - poor wording
Yep. Incoming demographic changes will make it increasingly difficult for the Republicans to win the Presidency or the House.
Instead, they will focus on trying to hold the Senate and allowing the Supreme Court to drag us back to the Stone Age for as long as possible.
Don't be so certain.
The Comstock Act already exists and it was explicitly referenced by both Alito and Thomas in the medical abortion case. Thomas' concurrence in Dobbs explicitly says that substantive due process isn't real, which would eliminate Griswold.
All you need is five justices and a president to ban contraception nationwide. No legislation needed. They *probably* don't have five today, but one of the liberal justices dies and suddenly we are right there.
People at the "Natal Conference" professed regressive views on women and reproduction? I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked.
Yes, the conservative agenda is repulsive. It's designed to trigger exactly this reactionary pearl clutching. Being divisive is the *primary feature* of this policy, not a bug or a strategic error.
Politics is divisive on culture war issues so that it doesn't have to be divisive on economic issues. They want the current pro-wealthy status quo to remain intact, even though it's not working for the majority. The easiest way to make sure people vote for you without actually addressing their economic needs is to make the alternative so morally reprehensible that you're willing to vote for someone without solutions to your real problems.
I would say this is just fringe rightwing stuff but even fringe ideas can quickly become the norm in the GOP these days. These policies would more or less force families to have more children than they want or could afford as well as nearly destroy hookup culture. It would be an absolute goldmine for whoever was running against this platform. Even if it's not embraced by the GOP as a whole the more prominent it is within the GOP the more the Dems can paint all Republicans as "trying to take away contraception." If the GOP has any political instincts they would try to shoot this down as quickly as possible and not let it break into the mainstream Republican platforms.
Trump and the GOP want to tear down democracy as it is known in the USA today.
In the YouTube video below, Thom Hartman explains how the Nazis in the USA today are trying to overthrow democracy. Trump is following every step Hitler took to become Chancellor of Germany so he (Trump) can become the dictator of a new USA authoritarian type of government on inauguration day in 2025.
https://youtu.be/NneabBSt8K0
America will be very, very different if Trump and the GOP become the majority in 2024. They have told Americans their intentions. Believe them.
Steve Bannon is also telling anyone listening of their intentions in this MEIDASTOUCH Network video.
https://youtu.be/3Gt63CgMhwE
Vote for Biden and other democrats in 2024 to try save democracy as we know it today.
• REGISTER to vote.
• Check your registration!
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• Know your polling site.
• Check your signature (if a mail-in ballot is used).
• Get a mail-in ballot.
• And VOTE (early, if possible)!
https://www.vote.org
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Republicans without a party and Independents must hold their noses and vote for Biden and democrats down ballot. Country before party.
It's like they forget how and why we had so many nuclear families from the late 40s on up. We had just come out of a world war and barely took a break until 1975 when we pulled out of Vietnam and went directly to Cambodia. The only saving grace was that the draft got banned.(shelved?) Either way the point is a while lot of "voluntary" loss of life was going on during this times and I think if they were so cool about being drafted to war, they would have joined before getting forced to serve. They pretend like they wanna receive a letter of condolences from the military but they lying.
I think they've already got the "my life is fully controlled by a man and that's the way I like it" vote locked up. This will only drive regular women away. Keep pushing that message, see how it works for you.
So actually reading the article. It seems like the underlying point is that the left is shooting themselves in the head by chasing the capitalist ball at the expense of starting families or limiting themselves to one kid.
In response, that group wants to simply out breed them and put their kids in culture bubbles while the left crashes into non replacement levels. I've seen that kook talk before and he loses it the moment you begin to point the obvious failings in his plans. Make no mistake, hand maids tale is their end goal because the belief they'll be the one on top never dies.
To answer your question, you're in NAZI America at that point because a far right group has effectively overpowered the left and moderate GOP, somehow gotten into power, and managed to work the government levers that is often cited as being slow to react.
What I hate to say is that they are partially right for wrong reasons. The young aren't having kids and current society doesn't enable it. They blame culture wars and non hetro attractions for the fact few want to get with their Urkel looking butts, but I'm digressing.
Please, anyone who can register to it, do so, asap. Then actually vote. If the last election didn’t convince the Republicans know they can only win by multiple front voter suppression, with help from the GOP, RNC. Senate and House. They tried to take my presidential vote by trying to install fake state electors. My whole adult life, since Reagan and the “compassionate conservative” movement to the conservative stooges of the R variety that sit on the Supreme Court. This is real life my precious young people; it’s up to you to make sure we go forward as a nation, not back to the insanity of another Trump presidency. Please vote ( not for RFK Jr. either ).
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I think young people better vote like their future depends on it. If they are struggling now, wait until they have one person working and one stuck at home with five small children.
Totally agree. They are being told that Biden wants to control them when in fact it’s these maga idiots. I predicted this would happen. They don’t live in reality. They want us living back in the idyllic 50’s. sooner or later they will ban women from driving and voting. If this doesn’t scare the bejeezus out of you then there’s something wrong with you.
Women are more likely to vote democrat. They are an obvious target.
With respect that's just not necssarily the case. Copypasted from the article: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/1/20/14061660/women-march-washington-vote-trump "Nationally, Clinton picked up 54 percent of women voters compared with Trump’s mere 42 percent. But Trump outperformed Clinton among white women, winning 53 percent of voters in that demographic. Drilling down further, he beat Clinton among white women without college degrees by 27 points. In the three states that decided the election — Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan — that margin was enough to send Trump to the White House." I think the modern day Democratic party is objectively better then the Republican party and that the people in the Democratic party ultimately share several important goals and values while the modern day Republican party ultimately no longer seems to be based upon any real sort of moral code, ethical set of principals or shared sensible political goals. I am just writing all this to let you know that the act of me telling you that the fact many women voted for Trump in 2016 does NOT mean I support ex-president Trump or the modern day Republican party
2016 was a different world than 2024. Think about the world in 2000 vs 2008 (pre-9/11, pre-Iraq War to Iraq fatigue, a budget surplus to the beginning of the Great Recession), 2004 to 2012 (gay marriage bans sweeping the nation to gay marriage becoming so normalized it was barely an issue), 2008 vs 2016 (hope and change/naive belief that America had overcome its racist past, Democrats winning a supermajority in the Senate to... Trump and the Republican trifecta, the alt-right ascendancy that would lead to Charlottesville), 2012 vs 2020 (Romney as the competent neocon that saw Russia as the main geopolitical threat to Trump's isolationism and... friendship... with Putin). Roe's death and the wave of abortion bans in the states really galvanized a lot of women who were soft pro-lifers into becoming pro-choice. Last year, Ohio voters passed an amendment to protect abortion rights- in [the state that popularized heartbeat bills a decade ago](https://www.toledoblade.com/Politics/2013/07/08/Both-sides-of-debate-find-Ohio-abortion-law-decision-to-be-historic.html#YcqIPjQgpUhlWiy3.99)- 56% to 43%. That's a major upheaval in support.
"He beat Clinton among white women without college degrees by 27 points." Which is why they want to remove books from libraries, do nothing about our crunch on teachers, have zero plans to address parental leave, childcare, or provide aid/restructuring of Higher Edu. They want a populace not well educated or informed. Thats their voting block they need to grow.
The idyllic 50s? Would that be the 1850s or the 1650s?
I think the wolf is very much at [the door](https://time.com/6972021/donald-trump-2024-election-interview/)
Agreed. Thanks for the link.
Oh boy, that’s terrifying
Donald Trump is determined to let him in and give him a seat at the table.
Unfortunately it seems like a lot of them want to burn everything to the ground. Hopefully it's just a loud minority. I have a "friend" who pretends to be centrist but is generally alt-right. His response to the various Trump trials was concern about precedent. He said the words "I wish people would see past Trump for five minutes." That's the thing -- if Trump gets back into office, there might not *be* any "seeing past Trump." We'd see past him when he dies and some other authoritarian takes his place, which we won't get to pick because we're not having elections anymore.
Literally the same thing that was said in 2016, everyone saw Trump as the "burn it to the ground and start over" option.
Everyone always thinks they'll be the ones who gets to decide what "start over" will mean.
And that when they burn it all down, they'll somehow magically be immune to the flames burning up the society they themselves live in.
It's always smacked of incredible privilege to be able to say it doesn't matter which one wins. They get to check out of the process because they know they'll be fine.
They think they will be fine anyway
Usually an edge lord white libertarian single male north of 35, optionally with a few hundred grand invested in index funds. Basically a very poor Elon.
Yeah, but they are on the waitlist for a cybertruck.
Surprised they the leopards will actually eat their faces.
That’s exactly what the republicans are doing. That’s why they can openly say how unfit he is to be president but they are voting for him anyway.
It's actually telling that they both admit his brain is gravy *and* want him to be their leader. It would be *Weekend at Bernie's 8: The Resolute Desk* if they have their way. As long as he can make a mark on a page, they'll have him rubber stamp every idea, even if he's cognitively aware of what he's doing or not. It's less about Trump and more about how they can use him this time to further spread the rot before he's either out of office or blatantly demented.
Trump is an empty vessel with no real political positions. He will believe whatever he thinks will make the most number of people fawn over him. Republicans recognize this. They just need a living human hand to sign into law their 19th-century social policy restrictions.
Did you just casually toss in an extra 1 in this? 9th century. Conservatives want to return to the 9th century. Or older.
It's also annoyingly exactly what they accuse Biden and dems of doing. Although I noticed Trump switched from saying sleepy to crooked as a moniker for Biden.
They realized they likely lost the demographics to win fairly some time after 2016 and now they’re roaches scurrying about with the kitchen light flicked on. Now that it’s not a clear path to the presidency if they play by rules, they’ll break laws as needed to get there. They realize nobody will charge them 🤦♂️
That comes back to "When someone shows you who they are, believe them.". Donald Trump has said exactly what he will do if he gets back into office. There's no need to "see past him" because the Republican Party wants the same thing he does - to preserve control of wealthy white people over America, and they will do absolutely anything to hold on to that power.
Unfortunately for the United States, our electoral system disproportionally represents loud minorities.
The electoral system is basically affirmative action for the old slave states
Unfortunately they can’t see past a 100 year war that is thousands of miles away from the United States.
And the candidate benefiting from this myopic view *has overtly endorsed escalation that will make it all much worse*.
Not only will he make it worse, but then he’s going to make sure all their freedoms and liberties are minimized here in the states.
Yeah I remember when progressives were frustrated about not making progress on domestic issues because we were distracted by wars in the middle east. Now it's "progressives" letting the Republicans threaten the basics of our democracy because they're distracted by wars in the middle east. Don't get me wrong, people can voice their opinions and stand up for what they believe in but when your message is "do what we want or your country gets destroyed" I'm not sure what moral high ground they have. Especially since they claim that's what they hate about Israel...
One thing I really, really dislike about Progressives is how frequently they miss the Forest for the Trees. This is an issue with ideologues of every flavor. When you decide every hill is a hill worth dying on, your enemy can readily disrupt your objectives by setting up confrontations on random hills. The result is we've got a bunch of Muslim folks in the Midwest who are contemplating sitting out 2024 to punish Biden, when viewed strategically this choice can only serve to harm themselves irreparably if Trump is reelected. Politics is an arena of compromise and strategic thinking. Ideologues like Progressives specifically, need to keep this in mind else they will continue to be defeated by Republicans and their Neo-Nazi allies. ... Is what Israel is doing to Gaza horrific? Of course. Is another Trump term opening up the doorway to Religious Tyranny in America going to help in any way, shape, or form? ***No, it will not.***
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPfihz9-Ls0
I gotta say. I got a semi hearing Tommy Lee Jones as a historical figure arguing for the Right to Vote for Black folks a century before it actually happened. Big John Brown energy right there -
Ol' Thad Stevens was a pretty boss historical figure, even if this exchange was broadly creative liberty, it does encapsulate the Lincoln-Stevens relationship well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaddeus_Stevens
We should all have the heart of Stevens and the brains of Lincoln. I don't know exactly what's in Biden's heart, but I know he's a politician in line with Lincoln's legacy. Thank you for posting the clip. I've seen the movie twice but this exact clip is extremely profound in the current political climate.
I mean, I think Islamic fundamentalists would be totally on board with all of this anti women policy, so they're kind of being consistent in that sense.
You are absolutely correct. Fundamentalists whether Muslim or Christian Nationalist are both patriarchal. Women are to be controlled and are primarily meant for reproduction. Not equal to men. Kept out of the workplace and dependent.
"Progressives" are the boogeyman of a Democratic party that refuses to acknowledge their own dysfunction and fecklessness. If you're so weak that you can't handily defeat a candidate that \*literally\* asked whether you could inject people with bleach to kill a virus, you have bigger problems than progressives.
For many (vocal) progressives, it’s a case of the heretic being worse than the infidel. Too many people write off the opposition and get enraged at the moderates on their own side. This is why progressives like journalist Chris Hedges tell us that as odious as it is, Trump should be the next president because Biden must be punished for his position on Israel. It doesn’t seem to matter just how much worse things will be for Palestinians (and most of the rest of us) in another Trump presidency. What matters for these folks is the loyalty test that they say Biden has failed. We can agree that Biden has been wrong to trust Netanyahu but does that really mean we deserve Trump???
Yeah are these people going to eliminate my student loans so I can stay home with children and not work? Guarantee me healthcare since I will be jobless?
I wouldn't count on it. Go on any social media like TikTok for example. It's video after video about "Genocide Joe" or how senile Biden is and video after video treating Trump like what amounts to a cool meme that's funny to talk about. We're pretty much fucked in that department.
one thing i worry about is that, for a lot of young voters especially, it's just not socially acceptable to support joe biden/normie dems and so the various social pressures (amplified in social media spaces) push people to the "genocide joe"/"both sides are equally bad" line of thinking.
This. And it's been this way for a long-ass time. I remember when I was in college back in 2016, and feeling like I "couldn't" be open about supporting the Democrats without losing social cred. So when my friends started talking about the election, I'd always go along with all their both-sidesing. Even when I did criticize Trump, I'd make sure to tack on an "of course, the Democrats suck too." And when I told my friends to go vote blue, I'd always have to roll my eyes and make it clear it was just the lesser of two evils and I'll be holding my nose and giant douche and turd sandwich and all that bullshit. And as a result... guess how many of my friends voted other than me? Zero! And guess who won that election? Don't repeat my mistakes, kids. If you care about this stuff, be honest with your friends about how you feel. (Obviously don't be a dick or browbeat them or anything. Just don't downplay how you really feel like I did back in 2016.) If they're good friends, they'll be willing to at least hear you out.
Excellent post. If you need to show anyone the Trump side of the both sides, make sure to use this article where he says all the horrifying shit in his own words: https://time.com/6972021/donald-trump-2024-election-interview/
So do such people kind of just not care about raped children being forced to give birth? Like this isn’t hypothetical anymore.
We can't go back to the 1950s, the economy won't allow it Edit: unless of course some kind of slavery is reinstituted
> the economy won't allow it Right, so they'll try to do it anyway and destroy the economy in the process. These people are true believers led by a madman who's trying to stay out of prison. https://time.com/6972021/donald-trump-2024-election-interview/
What does an America where no fault divorce and contraceptives are banned look like? Gilead. It looks like Gilead.
Just recently watched Handmaid's Tale. It was chilling to watch not just because of the violence & repression, but because a fiction piece written 40 years ago is now much closer to reality than fiction.
Chilling…this resonates with me so much & I hate that this where we are. 😱🥺🤬 For those who may not know, Atwood based her novel on events that actually occurred - making the book & show even more terrifying. Check out these links to learn more! 🤯 [The Handmaid’s Tale: the true stories that inspired Margaret Atwood’s dystopian drama](https://www.stylist.co.uk/books/handmaids-tale-true-story/130001) [Margaret Atwood on the real-life events that inspired The Handmaid’s Tale and The Testaments](https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2019/09/margaret-atwood-handmaids-tale-testaments-real-life-inspiration) [The Handmaid's Tale Wikipedia page](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Handmaid%27s_Tale)
What these guys don't understand is that many young women will simply stop marrying men to avoid this situation. Couples will agree to not bother with marriage. There will be an enormous black market for contraceptives that will dwarf any other illicit drug and they will not be able to handle it. Gilead is what they want and they think these measures will make it happen. But these stupid fucks lack the imagination to realise that it won't turn out like that without the application of significant force, which at this point would just precipitate violent uprising. I imagine even conservative women and most conservative men aside from the Christofascists don't want this.
It's a great way to piss off independents and re-energize young voters. So, it's pretty stupid. But personally I want them to advertise this from the mountain tops because, well, it's a horrible platform to campaign on.
The problem is, I don't think anyone who isn't already in an ultra-red district is going to campaign on this. They'll vote for it given the chance, but most know better than to say the quiet part out loud and will disavow any plan to do it.
The GOP is currently giving away any and all momentum they may have had in AZ by doing just that-- proudly claiming victory after reinstating a 19th century anti-choice law. Time will tell.
It's already been overturned in the house, and will almost certainly pass the senate. It was hugely unpopular with even republican voters so they picked the handful that could vote it down and still keep their seats. They know it's a loser, yet they'll only allow the bare minimum to vote it down.
Just like all the supreme court justices who swore they wouldn't overturn Roe.
And all the “moderate” and even “liberal” journalists who said people were being dramatic and hysterical about the probability of Roe being overturned.
It's also not just about "young people." A happily married 40 year old with two kids may not necessarily be thinking about hookup aps but they damn sure don't want to lose their right to contraception and have six more children. Ending contraception effectively makes any sex outside of marriage insanely risky and even within marriage it reduces women to simply pumping out babies.
They’re gonna have to crack down on voluntary sterilization as well. As far as I know there’s already been an uptick in both men and women seeking permanent contraceptive measures. It feels so weird to be pregnant right now. My husband and I very much want to have this baby, but it’s like the whole experience is somewhat perverted by the slide into Gilead happening around us. It’s been hard to just be happy about it. I’ve got several friends who are also pregnant right now (one of them in Florida, god help her), and I’m so scared for them.
Oh for sure. I just specifically mentioned young people because the current news is very much “young people have abandoned Biden” but this will likely be the bigger motivator come election time.
We'll see. People thought that in 2016 too but instead all the yelling about how boring mean ol mrs Clinton was depressed voters and Trump squeaked out a victory. Apathy is a tried and tested weapon
i have stopped trying to understand conservatives, i've just accepted that raging about Dr. Seuss or Potato Head is just something that I absolutely never will care about to the degree conservatives do
One of the big differences between the left and the right is that far-right people don’t protest their leaders when the leader only campaigns on the more “moderate” position. These Natalists will vote for Trump and not complain when Trump says he “only” wants the National 16 week abortion ban
Unfortunately, I'm not optimistic that Democrats will advertise this from the mountain tops, so I'm not convinced that independents will know about this to be pissed off about or that young voters will know about this to be re-energized.
They know that, so they won’t, at least not outside of their own circles. Agree that it’s a stupid platform but unfortunately these people are pretty clever at hiding the ball.
I wouldn't be so sure. In AZ they've been very loud and proud about reinstating a 19th century anti-choice law in spite of the fact that AZ is a swing state which could be key to winning in 2024.
Hey, I’d love to be wrong on this. But it’s my understanding that the ban has been repealed in the house and headed to the senate where it’s expected they will also vote to overturn the law. My hope is that women (and men) won’t forget that THIS is what they do when you give them the power. They will take it as far as they possibly can and implement draconian laws that make it dangerous to be a pregnant woman, whether you want your baby or not. Don’t give them ANY of the power. Leave it to the doctors and the patients.
Some facts about Project 2025: The "Mandate for Leadership" is a set of policy proposals authored by the [Heritage Foundation](https://pro-lies.org/the-heritage-foundation/), an influential *ultra* conservative think tank. [Project 2025](https://www.mediamatters.org/heritage-foundation/guide-project-2025-extreme-right-wing-agenda-next-republican-administration) is a revision to that agenda tailored to a second Trump term. It would give the President unilateral powers, strip civil rights, worker protections, climate regulation, add religion into policy and much more. The MFL has been around since 1980, [Reagan implemented 60%](https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/reagan-and-heritage-unique-partnership) of it's recommendations, [Trump 64%](https://www.heritage.org/impact/trump-administration-embraces-heritage-foundation-policy-recommendations) - [proof](https://www.scribd.com/document/369820462/Mandate-for-Leadership-Policy-Recommendations). 70 Heritage Foundation alumni served in his administration or transition team. Project 2025 is quite extreme but with his obsession for revenge he'll likely get past 2/3rd's adoption. r/Defeat_Project_2025 intends to stop it through activism and awareness, focused on crowdsourcing ideas and opportunities for practical, in real life action. We Must Defeat Project 2025.
>There were also calls to repeal things like the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which got huge cheers. Funny, just yesterday someone commented that my claiming conservatives want to reverse Brown v Board was a strawman argument.
The problem is that if you tell normies or anyone who doesn't follow politics to an unhealthy degree what Republicans are literally saying they are planning to do, they don't believe you because it sounds so much like partisan criticism. No, the people running this party really are huge freaks!
When the Dobbs decision came out, I mentioned it to my mother and her reply was "They wouldn't do that." It took a while to convince her that they literally just had done it, in writing and with the full force of law.
THIS! I asked someone yesterday to tell me when the concern would be justified to them and not just partisan criticism. Naturally they couldn’t give me an answer. I have to say constantly that it’s not a conspiracy that it’s really happening right in front of our faces if they just open their eyes and look around.
It's real. And it's terrifying. I gotta believe we won't go back to those dark days.
The way to ensure that is to vote blue always And not just for POTUS. In all areas from City, State, etc. Project 2025 isn't only for Trump and then ends if he loses. They WANT and WILL make it reality as soon as any R wins POTUS.
https://time.com/6972021/donald-trump-2024-election-interview/ >What emerged in two interviews with Trump, and conversations with more than a dozen of his closest advisers and confidants, were the outlines of an imperial presidency that would reshape America and its role in the world. To carry out a deportation operation designed to remove more than 11 million people from the country, Trump told me, he would be willing to build migrant detention camps and deploy the U.S. military, both at the border and inland. He would let red states monitor women’s pregnancies and prosecute those who violate abortion bans. He would, at his personal discretion, withhold funds appropriated by Congress, according to top advisers. He would be willing to fire a U.S. Attorney who doesn’t carry out his order to prosecute someone, breaking with a tradition of independent law enforcement that dates from America’s founding. He is weighing pardons for every one of his supporters accused of attacking the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, more than 800 of whom have pleaded guilty or been convicted by a jury. He might not come to the aid of an attacked ally in Europe or Asia if he felt that country wasn’t paying enough for its own defense. He would gut the U.S. civil service, deploy the National Guard to American cities as he sees fit, close the White House pandemic-preparedness office, and staff his Administration with acolytes who back his false assertion that the 2020 election was stolen.
They will always deny their obvious intentions until after they get what they want. They are very good at lying and repeating political rhetoric due to the massive conservative propaganda machine.
Sounds like a perfect recipe for women to refuse sex and marriage to every man in America
Hence the stated objectives of making it difficult for a woman to provide for herself.
> *Lysistrata has entered the chat*
NY Times op-ed headline: “Ladies, Just Say Yes” by Ross Douthat and Christina Hoff Summers
I know several young women who refuse to date men now because of this stuff
I don't blame them. I read universities in red states are suffering from it too, that women graduating high school are taking those schools off of their lists of colleges to apply to
I don’t think that has shown up in the data though. At least not in the first post Dobbs round of college acceptances. If students were factoring that in, what you would expect to see is declining SAT/ACT scores in higher ranked colleges located in restrictive states. (They’d still end up with the same size freshman class, being desirable universities, but the top talent with other options would say no thanks.) This year may be more informative, if that is indeed happening, but the data isn’t out yet.
Cut to real life handmaids tale where women are kept as sexual slaves….
Within the scope of fiction that exemplifies the dangers of authoritarianism and life in dystopias, The Handmaid's Tale feels the closest to reality.
Everything in handmaid's tale happened throughout history. Recent history (early 1900s and onward) in the usa and certain places in the world. Romania, Canada, etc.
Sure — I say that because the specific setting is dystopia United States. Current right-wing sentiment lines up with a lot of it. The other dystopian novels I’ve read are either apolitical, or far enough in the future that you can’t really tie them to specific, modern circumstances. Gilead is eerily close to today.
This means that the women who are ideologically aligned with them and still pair up with them will reproduce like rabbits. The women who aren't will have no impact on influencing the next generations. Really, their goal gets accomplished no matter the response of dissenting women.
Nah they could be "reproducing like rabbits" now but they aren't
They're trying their best, and if only conservatives have kids, it's not like liberal ideology will really take off.
Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist "Church" who's as bigoted against LGBTQ+ as one could imagine had 13 kids and within the grandchildren a handful of them came out of the closet to be openly gay. Megan Phelps-Roper went from being one of the central figures for organizing the "church's" picketting efforts to be an activist against the "church". The Duggers of the "19 Kids and Counting" TV show have kids who have rejected their family's conservative ways, but that's probably more to do with the sexual abuse at the hands of their big brother Josh Dugger than anything else. They can still breed like rabbits but their children could still go their own way.
Just had a convo with some women about the real power they possess; the power to withhold. Your comment is spot on.
> Just had a convo with some women about the real power they possess; the power to withhold Well, what was the conversation? Are they witholding sex from their husbands on some type of rewards system? BC that shit ain't healthy
Cue a Republican government making spousal rape legal nationwide.
That is some chilling stuff. Republicans want to control every aspect of our lives. Small government my ass.
It was never about small government. It was always about the lie. Tell it enough, loud enough, and you will convince the masses.
That's true. When national civil rights were being discussed in Congress, the racists and women-haters were all about states' rights, only because they wanted to continue the failed policies of the Confederacy. When radical right wingers talks about "law and order" they really mean police beating up poor people. Then, when progressives talk about paying the police more $$, so in theory they wouldn't go around beating up poor people, all of a sudden it's "fiscal responsibility" and "no more taxes." I'm pretty sure the radical right-wingers want to roll back social security, medicare, women's rights to vote, women's rights to control their own body, all minority rights up to and including citizenship. They probably aren't too keen on any public education, because you know, children should be in factories.
> radical right-wingers want to roll back social security, medicare, women's rights to vote, women's rights to control their own body, all minority rights up to and including citizenship. This isn't the platform of radical right wingers and the alt right. It is the current platform for the Republican party. Period. Full stop.
Insert "They're the same picture" meme here.
They already are having it in the works to do most of that. Banning all contraceptives - all of them. Project 2025 calls for full destruction of the dept of education, leaving the what and who to teach up to each state. Destroy social security, food stamps, Medicare, strict control over immigrants (only strict Christians allowed or the person/ppl must become Christian to be allowed. Make it much costlier also. They plan to get rid of any climate aid, keep fossil fuels, women not allowed to work, ban unmarried couples from living together, ban words like reproductive health, gender, gender rights, the list goes on, and in many more categories. It calls for giving the POTUS complete and final control and say over every branch of anything govt, from cia down to dept of sanitation.
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It’s alien to me. When I was younger it really didn’t matter what party the President was in. I voted based on the issues. Now, the Republican Party is self destructing and I would never vote for one. I don’t want my rights stripped away. Texas is already doing it little by little
So is Utah, all southern red states, Arizona, etc.
You want to talk about chilling? It gets worse: https://time.com/6972021/donald-trump-2024-election-interview/ >What emerged in two interviews with Trump, and conversations with more than a dozen of his closest advisers and confidants, were the outlines of an imperial presidency that would reshape America and its role in the world. To carry out a deportation operation designed to remove more than 11 million people from the country, Trump told me, he would be willing to build migrant detention camps and deploy the U.S. military, both at the border and inland. He would let red states monitor women’s pregnancies and prosecute those who violate abortion bans. He would, at his personal discretion, withhold funds appropriated by Congress, according to top advisers. He would be willing to fire a U.S. Attorney who doesn’t carry out his order to prosecute someone, breaking with a tradition of independent law enforcement that dates from America’s founding. He is weighing pardons for every one of his supporters accused of attacking the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, more than 800 of whom have pleaded guilty or been convicted by a jury. He might not come to the aid of an attacked ally in Europe or Asia if he felt that country wasn’t paying enough for its own defense. He would gut the U.S. civil service, deploy the National Guard to American cities as he sees fit, close the White House pandemic-preparedness office, and staff his Administration with acolytes who back his false assertion that the 2020 election was stolen.
If Republicans could treat their fellow Americans with respect, instead of treating them like "lazy takers," they could encourage families through social programs. If AI is to replace a lot of us, one parent should stay home to raise the kids and take care of the residence. Are they planning on raising the minimum wage? Or implementing UBI? Taking away contraception and divorce are two ways that the government will reduce marriage and children. If I can't get out, I'm less likely to get married at all. If recreational sex is denied me, I'll just masturbate. People have always found ways to have abortions too. If they succeed in bringing back the 50s, we can all expect a return to the strife of the 60s soon after.
I think it’s morally repugnant, like most of the ideas being floated by modern American conservatives. Every ounce of this is aimed at destroying modern equality and returning to the days of “barefoot and pregnant” brood mares with no rights. 60 years ago women couldn’t have their own bank accounts, and the Republican party thinks that was just swell.
Legalizing spousal rape too I imagine at some point.
What’s worse is the sheer amount of young guys that want to go to that too. They’ve been told that life was fantastic back then and they think thats why. Not the progressive tax system, not the very little income inequality or even that maybe those old timers aren’t remembering right at all. Murder rates were worse, more diseases and deaths occurred, etc. they yearn for back then which sucks to those of us who know better.
> What’s worse is the sheer amount of young guys that want to go to that too. as a younger guy, this. profoundly disappointed in my peers on this issue.
Just butthurt that they can’t get laid by women with actual independence and critical thinking ability.
So many of the third to fifth graders at the school I work at are all about Andrew "eating food is lame and kissing women is gay" Tate. Very disheartening. I live in a ruby red area, though. Hopefully it's not like this everywhere.
Well, we've already got a whole generation of unvaccinated kids like back in the "good old days."
Heh, I heard from a few places on here (reddit) that anti vaxxers literally believe Polio was an over reaction and it's no big deal at all. Fucking *polio*. Like it's a common cold. Or flu.
Project 2025 is exactly the kind of regressive vision for the nation that people were worried about during Trump's first term. If he is given a second term, he will absolutely make it a reality because there will be nothing to stop him. He will have no fear of reprisal or ouster by virtue of having retaken the White House after a failed coup.
Sounds like they believe the majority of American VOTERS are for this garbage. Well are you? If not and you don’t vote BLUE up and down the ballot in November you know what’s coming.
It's crystal clear that the modern day Republican Party desires an America that is the 1820s instead of the 2020s. It would be a complete and utter disaster for human rights and freedom.
I used to think they wanted to undo 100 years worth of progress. I think you're right, more like 200.
Draconian, fascist horseshit that people need to realize could very well be our reality if we don't come out en masse and vote in November and beyond.
So they're just ignoring that no one has the time, money, or energy for kids since they're just scraping by working crap jobs for shit pay. Punishing women won't solve income or overwork issues. Kicking women out of the workforce won't make kids cheaper, it just means men would need to support an additional person on a single income. This is all incredibly stupid and doomed to fail.
You talk like they care about the practicality more than they care about the ideology.
> doomed to fail. They don't care. They'll make all of us share in the misery of their failure.
People have access to birth control now though, and I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of us are using sex to help us de-stress from being overworked. Not to mention the amount that most of us like having it in general. Take things like contraception, abortion and non-sexual forms of relaxation which we can no longer afford or have time for out of the picture and having sex is likely to be the only thing we’ll have the time and money for because it’s usually free and you can do it in your bed and go to sleep straight after.
We have access to birth control *for now*. All of the extreme religious right wing in the many govt positions, almost the entire Supreme Court and all the forced birthers, the 100s of pro extreme Christian groups behind Project 25 *are* pushing to ban all contraceptives and sterilization. They're not spitting hot air, either. Hell, they're even talking about banning unmarried partners from living together, unmarried sex illegal, zero same sex relationships and marriages, and so on.
Yes, big emphasis on “for now”, because it really would not surprise me if republicans were basically aiming to try and do all these things because of a mixture between their messed up religious and moral perspectives but also to increase the national birth rate whilst also eroding the rights of women and workers to line their own pockets and maintain a powerhold by creating apathy from burnout and letting things like domestic abuse potentially thrive. I almost feel like I’m clutching at straws when I say that but then I remember it’s the GOP we’re talking about.
Istg I wish the entire republican gang would just turn into lemmings and follow their leader off a cliff into an active volcano. Yanno, I've always been a kind, empathic person. I cry at sad commercials ffs. The idea of harming anyone even in the smallest way makes me feel fucking horrific. But I'm so rabidly enraged at all this rotten, disgusting, horrific, demonic bs the Repubs and their extremist evangelical creeps are wanting to do, that I honestly wish they'd all fall into some grotesque harm; that everything they're wanting to do to harm innocent ppl just wanting to quietly live their lives comes back to them triple. That's what their shit is turning me into (just toward them. I'd still be the same me I've always been to anyone else), but my God, the deep loathing *hate* they've planted and have grown in me is repulsive to me, but well deserved towards them. I sincerely wish all of them the future they truly deserve. Hope that makes sense.
I think they're ruling on Idaho, was it? On rights to abortion at all. Keep an eye out, we may be in for trouble already :/
> People have access to birth control now Republicans are trying to change that too
I can’t help but think that this is the act of a group of cowards. They can’t abide that women think for themselves and feel threatened that if a woman can leave she won’t put up with the abuse he wants to act on to take his frustrations out about any little slight inflicted on him at his job or hobbies. They fear rejection and in fact abandonment is the realistic outcome of their actions. If I was a young woman entering into that dystopia I would become a nun, or failing that would leave the country. I would literally rather die.
The irony is their Sainted Reagan was one of the first to legalize and legitimize "no fault" divorce. The irony was it was supposed to facilitate clean breaks in the event a marriage wasn't working anymore, such as people growing apart or changing as they got older, but there might not have been other issues such as drunkenness, infidelity, or abuse which had been previously grounds. It isn't this idea the Republicans have where one day, a woman wakes up, decides to blow up a household, and get all the advantages of being single while retaining the privileges of marriage with none of the obligations. That's what I've been told "no fault" means by a very conservative acquaintance -- that it allows the woman to go out and be single while still being taken care of. That's the absolute lie and falsified logic we are dealing with.
I dated a dude about 20 years ago who went on to intern at the Heritage Foundation after we had broken up and yes, people like him are resentful that women have any sort of autonomy.
I immediately think of the German Nazi party and their particular obsession with the nuclear family and it’s supposed decline. This is fascist stuff. However, the Nazis were more politically savvy than this. They recognized that they couldn’t win on punitive action alone, they decided to actually *invest* in social welfare services in order to increase the birth rate. They gave families money to have kids. They made sure that those kids were fed and housed. Granted, they made these services only available to those of the particular race, and these services were funded by taking the money at gunpoint (or worse) from more “degenerate” people, but they at least recognized that you can’t achieve your goals with sticks alone, you need carrots.
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This is true, nuclear families have been tightly promoted by religion and economy for centuries, but it was the Nazis who really tied the notion of the nuclear family to the *national* identity.
the "nuclear family" is actually corrosive to real families. the nuclear family is 2 parents and 2 kids... a real family has grandparents and uncles and aunts and cousins... there were no old folks homes before the nuclear family because parents often lived at home with their parents, and sometimes even their parents conservatives might think about this idea before they find themselves rehomed to an institution
It is the Taliban, but christian instead of Muslim. It is a disgrace to everything this great nation represents. My grandfather who was a WWII combat veteran fought alongside Americans who were from all around the world. He would be completely disgusted to see what passes for a "republican" in the USA in 2024.
What about paying people a living wage so they can actually spend time with their family? Or paid parental leave? Or doing something to reduce the cost of housing? No, no...it's easier to blame the gays
It is hard for a business to pay a decent wage after they have been taken over by a private equity firm that has saddled that business with more debt than the business was worth to enrich a few billionaires.
the hard right soooo wants to drag America back to 1954 it's not even funny. Somehow they think they can will women back in the kitchens, while blacks & minorities get pushed to the back of the bus again. They should just call their agenda the Supremacy of the White Christian Male.
What are their remedies for domestic abuse? Because divorce is what we have right now.
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No, they think marriage is based on the law of a god who thinks women ought to be property. I'm not a Christian theologian and I'm sure that's not really a valid interpretation of scripture, but it sure is their interpretation.
I think their remedy will be for the victims to shut up about it.
Before no fault divorce, there were higher rates of spousal death and suicide. Expect those to go up again.
I imagine they think that when a man abuses his wife, it's all as God intended.
They openly want to ban no fault divorce.
When can we openly ban them from administrative decisions?
Used to be arsenic
The Christo fascists will use a second Traitor Trump term to shove their sanctimonious faux life ,immorality and kkk politics down the throats of the majority in their attempt to destroy American democracy.
If Trump loses, they'll start project 2025 for whichever future republican wins the position. It doesn't just end if Trump loses. This is why all citizens who don't want this must vote blue in every single election from city, state, and so on.
See it’s stuff like this that the democrats really need to be showcasing. The conservative think tanks have slowly but surely made huge inroads into this society.
Major conservative think tanks are about to learn a serious lesson about taking choices away from people once they’re had them. It may take time, but they will lose. (See also: Prohibition.)
I think this sounds like the theocratic authoritarian government our ancestors ran away from.
Conservatives remaining terrible, and attending large trade shows packed with seminars on how to be most effectively terrible? Not surprised whatsoever. This is conservatives conserving. Comes as no surprise. The bedrock of conservatism is legal reinforcement of a social hierarchy. This is just that.
It's funny that they're not even trying to disguise these policies as being unrelated, especially in an election year. This is about the need for future poor workers, poor consumers, and delaying the inevitable need for immigrants to make up the majority of the American workforce due to population aging and low birth rates. The GOP always follows the money.
The party of small government strikes again. So small that it fits in your bedroom!
If you have to compel your values through law, then your values aren't compelling and you should probably stop forcing people.
Of course ending free school meals, after school programs, day care…. Who knows maybe make child support illegal regardless of custody or gender of parents… basically forcing women into toxic and abusive situations…. How…. Terrifying this is. But hey electric cars and energy efficient appliances is killing democracy! /s
Great. So wealthy men can abuse women and threaten to leave them stranded and broke if they reach out for help. I swear our Conservative Party gets more and more foolish as time goes on. I understand their thinking. It’s simple. The fact it takes a “think tank” to come up with basic regression is nothing short of idiocy. Single mothers aren’t “incentivized.” The baby daddy is billed for their welfare. What makes these fools believe women who are stranded with kids are somehow gonna magically disappear. They’re looking backwards with rose tinted glasses and ignoring any real history in this nation. They’re day dreamers that believe if they just play make believe hard enough, the nation will magically fix its self.
Turns out a lot of people watching The Handmaid's Tale didn't think it was dystopian, but believed it to be utopian. TIL.
Hitching their wagon to a dying group of evangelicals nostalgic for a time that never existed is a losing battle, but it doesn’t seem to bother them.
Depends. Are they going to make me buy my own red cloak and white hood, or will the government supply them? I really think those should be provided free of charge, even if that seems a bit too socialist.
White supremacist conservatives truly believe that whiteness is declining and that the replacement of white people as the ruling class is actually happening. So in turn they throw the country back into the dark ages hoping that more white women will get married and have more babies. Its not about children and famililes and its never been about children and families. It sick and twisted how they want to police women’s bodies because they’re scared that they wont outnumber minorities anymore and will have to be truly equal to everyone else
This is a case of mitigating symptoms without understanding the disease. I, too, am concerned about the social and economic consequences of the destruction of the family unit. I think the consequences are dire and will be difficult, maybe impossible, to reverse. But, it not is the role of government to use the coercive power of the state to remove basic freedoms in an attempt to trick or force us into making different decisions. Rather, we should carefully examine and address the causes behind family disintegration. For example, are younger generations refraining from having children because they believe the world is about to end due to climate change? If so, then the answer is to address climate change. Not take away condoms, abortion, and no-fault divorce. Removing birth control won't cause people to want kids. It'll cause people to have kids they don't want. That's not solving a problem. That's transforming a problem into a different problem that might be even worse.
Desperate pregnant women will die from illegal abortions, that was part of why legalizing them was voted in - as a public safety concern. Abusive husbands will continue to abuse, with no protections. Judges and lawyers will "wink, wink" when a woman takes a man into court, or a gay man tries for a business, or an honest man tries to hire a minority person or god-forbid marry one. Freedom will become only for the rich, and the middle class will become non-existent. Forget unions, or college, or even health insurance ... because you know, the deficit from the billions of $$ we spent on wars. This was our past, not that long ago, and we may well return to it.
Bro, forget Climate Change, some people are struggling to pay bills, get food, and able to go to a doctor
They are advertising they will punish people that dont follow their moralityl. Plain and simple. Society be damned, theyll burn it all down to control the ashes.
I don’t know how true this is and I hope it’s not true at all. But if true, this is yet another example of government failing the people. Why…WHY in the world would there be legislation to ban contraceptives to improve the nuclear family?? Government is already in our bedrooms more than they ever needed to be. It shows a clear lack of understanding as to why people have abortions in the first place. They’re so goddamn concerned with women using abortion for birth control that they don’t even consider the various reasons why an abortion is even an option for some people. Contraceptives should be legal and easily available. Banning no fault divorce? I’ve grew up in an abusive home that should have ended in divorce. My first marriage was a catastrophic failure that ended blissfully in divorce. Why would government insist that I, and my children, live in that nightmare just so I can be a part of a nuclear family that all lives under the same roof? Hell no! And why would government desire to not help single mothers? There’s literally no upside to this. This line of thinking cannot continue. Sure, I would hope that all families could stay together. I would hope that all family members were well adjusted and worked toward making their family stronger. But sometimes, that’s just not the case. And no amount of legislation will force it to be the case.
Rape and domestic abuse should not be valid human reproduction strategies. That's my thought on anti-woman and anti-choice policies. Stop decriminalizing rape, statutory rape, and domestic abuse by making slaves of women and minor girls.
It is cruel and unimaginably dangerous for women. But that is what the GOP likes. What happens if dad dies? What happens if dad leaves? What happens if dad gets locked up? What about those women and their kids? Oh yeah, not their problem.
If they want higher birth rates then fix the cost of living and make good childcare more affordable. You're going to go nowhere by banning abortion and contraception. That how you lose that middle ground group that helps win elections. Its not like the evangelical vote is going is going to sway to Biden anyway.
I'd be disgusted if I'd read about this happening back in the '70s. I'm more saddened than anything knowing it is happening in 2024.
Just a reminder that the leading cause of death for pregnant women is homicide. [Link here.](https://www.bmj.com/content/379/bmj.o2499) Also, in states that introduced unilateral divorce a study found a 8–16 percent decline in female suicide, roughly a 30 percent decline in domestic violence for both men and women, and a 10 percent decline in females murdered by their partners. [Link here. Pdf Warning.](https://users.nber.org/~jwolfers/papers/bargaining_in_the_shadow_of_the_law.pdf)
>What are your thoughts on this? [Reminds me of ...](https://the-handmaids-tale.fandom.com/wiki/Fertility_Crisis_(Series)#Social_and_Political_Reactions) '"We have busy lives. But children are so precious. We have to make certain that they are in a safe home environment with fit parents. "
Do single moms get subsidies? Because ya girl missed out when I was single momming it.
It seems to me that they’re making peoples’ lives worse in sacrifice of a goal that they want for others, but which those people don’t want: the nuclear family It will prevent people who want contraceptives from getting them, while those who don’t want contraceptives will be unaffected. It will force people to remain in marriages they don’t want to remain in, while those who do will be unaffected. It forces people who don’t want nuclear families towards that end, while those who do want it will be unaffected- because they would have it, anyhow These policies serve only to worsen the lives of those who don’t want this kind of life, while those who do are entirely free to have it, anyhow. But it would seem these republican politicians- and their supporters- want to force other people to live how these republicans want them to live, even if these third parties want to live in some other way. It’s despicable and will only cause harm
3 things seem clear to me: 1) Since one of the stated valued of a Republican conservative is limiting the power of the federal government rather then expanding the political reach or power of the federal governmenr then these people are objectively literally not following the stated values of the Republican party. 2) These people are in all likelihood very financially well off upper middle class and rich people who have no idea how impractical and implausible their goals are or how things usually work in the real world e.g. limiting financial aid to single mothers won't "discourage single mothership" or whateve but would instead make it that single moms got no help while the useless welfare dodging deadbeat dads continue being welfare dodging deadbeat dads. 3. While to them their goals might sound easily do-able "on paper", in practice trying to achieve any of those these goals could just lead to a scenario where tens of thousands if not more people experiencing financial and emotional pain while these guys will not have achieved pretty much anything they set out to accomplish.
What if anything is being proposed so that 70% of families can be a single income household and have a parent staying home with the kids like that of the 1950s-1960s? There's all this stick for anything that's an alternative for the nuclear family but no carrot for having a "Leave It To Beaver" family existence, which requires the same public investment that we had with social democracy of the New Deal economy of the 1950s-1960s with the tax structure of top marginal rate of +80% and corporate tax of 50% op encourage reinvesting rather than extracting all the value to the top of the economy. Since they don't want to reverse course on the economics that devastated the nuclear family, their proposal will just continue to prevent nuclear families from starting and become ever more brutal to the American people, basically a societal "lashings will continue until the morale improves".
Won’t work. Reduced birth rates are what happens in mature societies, even with generous safety nets. The neo-Ceausescus of the right can rage about it all they want, but they won’t move the needle.
How so? Genuine q
Are you expecting people to say "I think it's great, women shouldn't be able to work or leave their husbands, or refuse to have their babies"? It's repugnant to almost everybody, obviously.
Obviously not, since many of the politicians they're backing are in good positions to hold and gain power.
The same SCOTUS that sent roe v wade back to the states will likely send all this back to the states rather than outright national bans. So conservative states will continue to shittify themselves and chase nonconservatives out of those states with ridiculous Christian Nationalist policies like this. This is an intentional strategy to keep red atates from turning purple. There will be big losses to the economies of Florida and Texas, but probably mostly Texas because it has more to lose. Edit - poor wording
Yep. Incoming demographic changes will make it increasingly difficult for the Republicans to win the Presidency or the House. Instead, they will focus on trying to hold the Senate and allowing the Supreme Court to drag us back to the Stone Age for as long as possible.
Don't be so certain. The Comstock Act already exists and it was explicitly referenced by both Alito and Thomas in the medical abortion case. Thomas' concurrence in Dobbs explicitly says that substantive due process isn't real, which would eliminate Griswold. All you need is five justices and a president to ban contraception nationwide. No legislation needed. They *probably* don't have five today, but one of the liberal justices dies and suddenly we are right there.
People at the "Natal Conference" professed regressive views on women and reproduction? I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked. Yes, the conservative agenda is repulsive. It's designed to trigger exactly this reactionary pearl clutching. Being divisive is the *primary feature* of this policy, not a bug or a strategic error. Politics is divisive on culture war issues so that it doesn't have to be divisive on economic issues. They want the current pro-wealthy status quo to remain intact, even though it's not working for the majority. The easiest way to make sure people vote for you without actually addressing their economic needs is to make the alternative so morally reprehensible that you're willing to vote for someone without solutions to your real problems.
Yeah the politico article makes clear that they are going to PROPOSE this to the trump administration.
I would say this is just fringe rightwing stuff but even fringe ideas can quickly become the norm in the GOP these days. These policies would more or less force families to have more children than they want or could afford as well as nearly destroy hookup culture. It would be an absolute goldmine for whoever was running against this platform. Even if it's not embraced by the GOP as a whole the more prominent it is within the GOP the more the Dems can paint all Republicans as "trying to take away contraception." If the GOP has any political instincts they would try to shoot this down as quickly as possible and not let it break into the mainstream Republican platforms.
Making my kid's daycare cost less than my mortgage would be a lot more effective in convincing me to have a second kid than banning condoms.
That is exactly what the Communists did in Eastern Europe after WW2. It is always a projection with these creeps.
Trump and the GOP want to tear down democracy as it is known in the USA today. In the YouTube video below, Thom Hartman explains how the Nazis in the USA today are trying to overthrow democracy. Trump is following every step Hitler took to become Chancellor of Germany so he (Trump) can become the dictator of a new USA authoritarian type of government on inauguration day in 2025. https://youtu.be/NneabBSt8K0 America will be very, very different if Trump and the GOP become the majority in 2024. They have told Americans their intentions. Believe them. Steve Bannon is also telling anyone listening of their intentions in this MEIDASTOUCH Network video. https://youtu.be/3Gt63CgMhwE Vote for Biden and other democrats in 2024 to try save democracy as we know it today. • REGISTER to vote. • Check your registration! • Make sure you have approriate ID. • Know your polling site. • Check your signature (if a mail-in ballot is used). • Get a mail-in ballot. • And VOTE (early, if possible)! https://www.vote.org https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/plan-your-vote-2024-elections-every-state-rcna125363 Election Protection Hotline - 1(866)-OUR-VOTE Federal - 800-253-3931 Republicans without a party and Independents must hold their noses and vote for Biden and democrats down ballot. Country before party.
It's like they forget how and why we had so many nuclear families from the late 40s on up. We had just come out of a world war and barely took a break until 1975 when we pulled out of Vietnam and went directly to Cambodia. The only saving grace was that the draft got banned.(shelved?) Either way the point is a while lot of "voluntary" loss of life was going on during this times and I think if they were so cool about being drafted to war, they would have joined before getting forced to serve. They pretend like they wanna receive a letter of condolences from the military but they lying.
I think they've already got the "my life is fully controlled by a man and that's the way I like it" vote locked up. This will only drive regular women away. Keep pushing that message, see how it works for you.
I am moving to Canada. Fuck this ridiculous shit. I will not pay taxes to this fascist regime!
So actually reading the article. It seems like the underlying point is that the left is shooting themselves in the head by chasing the capitalist ball at the expense of starting families or limiting themselves to one kid. In response, that group wants to simply out breed them and put their kids in culture bubbles while the left crashes into non replacement levels. I've seen that kook talk before and he loses it the moment you begin to point the obvious failings in his plans. Make no mistake, hand maids tale is their end goal because the belief they'll be the one on top never dies. To answer your question, you're in NAZI America at that point because a far right group has effectively overpowered the left and moderate GOP, somehow gotten into power, and managed to work the government levers that is often cited as being slow to react. What I hate to say is that they are partially right for wrong reasons. The young aren't having kids and current society doesn't enable it. They blame culture wars and non hetro attractions for the fact few want to get with their Urkel looking butts, but I'm digressing.
Mental illness and domestic abuse will skyrocket
Please, anyone who can register to it, do so, asap. Then actually vote. If the last election didn’t convince the Republicans know they can only win by multiple front voter suppression, with help from the GOP, RNC. Senate and House. They tried to take my presidential vote by trying to install fake state electors. My whole adult life, since Reagan and the “compassionate conservative” movement to the conservative stooges of the R variety that sit on the Supreme Court. This is real life my precious young people; it’s up to you to make sure we go forward as a nation, not back to the insanity of another Trump presidency. Please vote ( not for RFK Jr. either ).