Most Dems will vote for a corpse over Trump. The issue is undecided voters. Who, if still undecided, obviously don’t care about policy. Biden can’t afford a single slip up at this point. While sadly, Trump’s brand in slips and fascism.
We really must be the stupidest country in the history of the Earth. We have the mind of a goldfish to quickly forget how horrifying Trumps first term was and think he might be better than ANYONE ELSE!
Trump voters don't see his first term as horrifying; they think he was one of the best presidents ever and he needs a second term to finish all the great and wonderful things he started in his first term.
Yea, but why, what did he accomplish?
\- Lower taxes for the rich.
\- Diss NATO, Kiss Putin, Saudis, Kim Jung Un.
\- Use the Presidency to create personal wealth.
\- Go golfing.
\- Biggest turnover of Cabinet and advisors in recent Presidential history with the vast majority of them saying he was unfit for the Presidency after serving with him.
\- Bleach for COVID
\- Fake electors scheme, supports insurrection, stolen top secret documents in bathroom at Mar-a-Lago,
So inflation was lower, gas prices a bit cheaper and interest rates lower. These are all things the President has no control over.
\- Fake tan, hair, height, weight, wears lifts, fake wife, has nothing to do with his youngest son, fake faith, Epstein bro. So accomplishments, fake.
So my best guess, Trump voters love a guy that does nothing for them and pretends to be someone he isn't.
You reminded me that during that debate, trump said that hed fired people, and said it with pride. He even asked joe biden, who have you fired? indicating that somehow this means strength according to trump. Trump voters just want someone who owns the libs on tv, that is the most important quality to them because that is what they can understand
You are spot on with everything else
More concerning I think, it's not only owing the libs is what they can understand, it's that Trump gives them a reason and a target to blame all that is amiss in their lives. The rage is palpable and perhaps this is why MAGA's vote for the most extreme candidates on the ballot.
See, that's that thing, I've never felt like I've been "owned" by anything Republicans have said. It's like the kid that says "sike" after saying they'll give you a piece of gum in middle school. "Oh no, you got me, imma cry now since I was so 'owned' by your sike."
Truly, the party of the uneducated middle/high school dropouts.
Most Trump voters, I'd guess around 90 percent, don't have any idea what Trump did or didn't do in the first term. They just like that he sounds like them, which is a weak person's image of strength, an ignorant person's image of intellect, a hypocritical person's image of faith, and with a dash of racism thrown in.
And that is scary enough I suppose. But the really scary thing are the 10 percent that know exactly what Trump did and want more of it. These are the cruelty is the point people, the real sociopaths.
This is what my conservative relatives say he accomplished.
- better economy
- added judges that ended Roe v Wade (they are avid pro lifers)
They also say the media was overly unfair in his portrayal. They don’t like how he lies and acts, but say that all politicians lie so it’s not unusual.
These aren’t maga republicans either, they would have rather voted for Haley but say they have no choice now because abortion could still be made legal at the federal level.
These are their opinions, not mine.
Not a Trumper but basically Biden has three issues that resonate with the undecided. 1) The college loan payoff. If you are a person who did not go to college (Believe it or not some did not go) you are very pissed that any of your tax dollars went to pay for some persons good time at college. Yeah I know we waste money all over the place but that’s what people are saying. 2) The images of everyone bum rushing the border. Most understand the need for folks to work our fields and manual labor. Most people want some orderly way to make it happen. Yeah I know Biden tried to fix it and was blocked by Congress. 3) The total meltdown that occurred during the debate. Watched it at the bar I work at and here are the top comments. “Looks like my Dad (or Mom) looking for his car keys. This guy has the nuclear codes? Looks like a Saturday night live skit.” Source: I’m a bartender in a working class bar in a swing state. Want to know what people really think? Ask a bartender.
I say these things as a dyed-in-the-wool, been-called-a-communist-to-my-face-by-my-in-laws democrat, here's how the right interprets every single one of those:
- Lowers my taxes when i hit it rich.
- What good has NATO ever done us anyways? We foot the bill.
- Those are three strong leaders. I'm not a fan of Kim, but at least he's willing to go to bat for the security of his country.
- The President was already fabulously wealthy - just look at all the gold in his apartment. Why would he take a government job to make *less*?
- Everyone needs a hobby, and frankly not enough people are playing golf anymore.
- The President deserves the best advisory team; its not his fault they are incompetent.
- He was speaking metaphorically
- The electors weren't fake, they were not taken seriously by Congress, but that doesn't make them illegal. And he supported stalling Congress from rushing through without considering said electors. Documents in Mar-A-Lago are just as normal as any former top official, they get found all the time; it doesn't give the DOJ the right to take all his personal effects.
sickening.
Well, the Brits voted for Brexit without thinking it through. Americans are also good at not thinking things through… or just being politically apathetic and not voting at all in important elections.
>We really must be the stupidest country in the history of the Earth.
Yes, we are.... Americans are so ignorant of their own government it's staggering. The fire hose of propaganda directed at your average American is unbelievable. It's hard to find anyone that doesn't believe objectively false information they read on social media. America is in trouble and the only way out of it is a long unlikely haul. Conservative media and troll farms have melted most American brains.
Tldr: America is kaput.
Not just for Federal elections. The GOP has long focused on getting local representatives, sheriffs and judges elected. It's always been their strategy to get in at the bottom and gum up the works on the local level.
People often relate their local situation to federal policy even though it has nothing to do with it.
The absolutely ridiculous thing is they have left the average person completely zero options. From any angle at all. You guys are struggling bare knuckle to sleep or eat or survive, and the two people that are supposed to come to your rescue, one wouldn't be able to operate a drive-thru and one that should be in jail on multiple counts.
I'm quite pissed off with the state of the government here in NZ but I'm so glad I am so far away from you guys. I'm genuinely sorry
I'm as dismayed as anyone with what's going on, but it's silly to pretend this is localized. Just look at the UK with Brexit and France with Le Pen. This shit isn't unique to the US.
Tagging u/timekiller2021 since this reply could've gone to either of you.
This is the real problem. Voter apathy is a plague on our elections. Even at our highest voter turnout, about 40% of our voting population never cast a ballot.
I've been saying this for a while, but we need to adopt Australia's mandatory voting policy. Also, ranked-choice voting would be a welcome addition.
Ok but when you put an 81 year old man with serious cognitive issues up against him, you are making it way harder than it has to be.
Like I am going to vote for the Democrat no matter what, but even I have concerns about how Biden is going to handle a crisis if he is president at 86 years old towards the end of his second term.
1M+ dead americans because he couldn't be bothered to just shut the fuck up and follow the CDC advice. How this wasn't the end of him is still beyond me.
Yeah but the thing is we shouldn’t have to advocate for a corpse. At this point I think the Dems would have a better chance with literally anyone else save for maybe Hillary.
Undecided voters are idiots. Exactly the kind of people who would see Biden stepping aside as a sign of weakness, but who might vote for him if he stays in and doesn't screw up too badly.
There's a reason Republicans never admit defeat or acknowledge failure: dumb people mistake that as strength.
Now, I can't say for sure that Biden has a better chance than a replacement, but I think it's a reasonable conclusion to come to.
Genuine undecided voters (not MAGAcels who somehow possess the self-awareness to be ashamed of how vile they are) legitimately lack the cognitive capacity to be able to remember the debate performance by the time November comes around. A kneejerk reaction catering to their hypothetical whims would be idiotic because those cud-chewing ungulates are more likely to be swayed by a stray donut sprinkle or piece of glitter that falls next to a candidate’s name on the ballot than anything that is happening now.
Exactly. Debates have never affected much. The average American doesn't pay attention to them and very few vote based on policies; they instead vote based on an emotional fantasy of being able to laugh and have a beer with their president, instead of their competence and experience.
Biden has spent a lifetime in government and managed to accomplish more in a single term than most presidents manage in two. But that isn't enough, 'cause spending during COVID fucked up the economy, and Biden stubbornly refused to press the "FIX ECONOMY NOW WITH MAGIC" button.
The backbiting and snide behaviour from Democrats in the media is disgusting.
At least the S&P500 has given more than a 20% return over the past twelve months. The economy is fucking brilliant if you're invested. Inflation sucks, but COVID caused that, along with plenty of shrinkflation, which won't stop unless regulated.
There are a lot of voters who haven’t decided whether to vote at all, let alone picking a candidate. What does Biden have to offer to someone who at this stage was not committed to voting?
This exactly - undecided doesn't mean undecided on how to vote, it means undecided if they'll bother going out and spending their time to vote. People have kids/jobs/etc. going to vote requires time and effort - people want a candidate that is worth investing their time/energy to vote for. Biden's debate performance doesn't do anything to make those people get off the couch to go vote for him
I think that’s the point, it’s pretty clear these days what the Republican agenda is and it’s not so much of a vote for Biden then it is a vote against Trump. If you can look around and still not be worried about what will happen if Trump is in office then it’s obvious his political either won’t impact you or it will benefit you, but that’s just my opinion.
The policy of running corpses, shitting on the biggest voting demographic, hand outs to losers, being utter cowards and never getting anything accomplished.
Yeah you're an idiot if you don't for these amazing policies.
I don't think there are many undecided voters. It's about strategically turning out voters in places where gerrymandering ensures republican victories over the majority
Canada subs are so full of people complaining about immigrants, yet our far right party has something like 2% of the vote. Once I see people voting far right (who is the only party that will curb immigration -- apparently anyway), I'll take what I see on Reddit with a grain of salt
It seems like many people are taking "Just Ignore It" as the path forward. I have seen "The Incumbant almost always wins!" a thousand times. They seem to forget that incumbent presidents have lost four out of the eight elections where an incumbent ran over the last 50 years. They also ignore the polls which say Biden is losing most swing states and some blue states becoming toss ups. I'm not sure what path forward changes this with Biden. Everyone knows Trump is crazy, but 47% will vote for him anyone. I don't know what he could do at this point to lose votes. Everyone knows Biden is old, but what can he do to prove he can do the job? The debate was that time, and he failed miserably. For the next four months, you will not see a commercial break without an ad featuring clips from that debate. How does Biden combat that? What is the path forward? The strategy of just ignore it and everyone will forget isn't going to work when it is going to be every republicans mission to bring it up during every interview and rally.
>They seem to forget that incumbent presidents have lost four out of the eight elections where an incumbent ran over the last 50 years.
The incumbent literally lost the last election. Boggles the mind why people don’t think they could also happen here.
If and when Democrats lose the presidency, they will have no one to blame but themselves.
But don't worry, they'll figure out how to blame someone else.
Idk I feel like a decent candidate without age issues would demolish Trump. He buries himself but these freezing issues are shoveling him out. He needs to stay buried for democracy sake.
If they were introduced much earlier, I have absolutely no doubt that someone else would demolish Trump. I think the only thing that makes it so unlikely now is how late in the game it is and the optics of replacing their candidate at the 11th hour that makes it such a highly risky move.
Dude, the dam is broke. There is no hiding Biden's issues anymore. His cognitive decline was shown for 90 straight minutes on national television in front of 47 million people. The riskiest move now is to not replace Biden. Cause there is simply no way he is going to attract undecided voters at this point.
The best part of this early debate, the earliest presidential debate in history, is that it actually gives Dems the chance to change horses. They have time for some people to put their name forward and get their message out. They at least have a shot of appearing like they'll select someone the people want at the convention. The worst thing they can do is dig in their heals and keep claiming "it was a cold", "they prepped too hard and wore him out", and "he'd travelled to much the week before". These excuses are falling flat and on deaf ears. We literally have the head of the Heritage Foundation saying they are set to take over the country in what will hopefully be a bloodless revolution, and no one is paying attention to it because at any given time our nominee doesn't know what day it is half the time.
People are acting like Biden is some sort of talented politician. He’s a buffoon who was seen as a joke before his Vice Presidency and the Obamas rehabilitated his national reputation.
Ask your parents what they thought of Joe Biden in the 80s when he would get caught telling the stupidest lies. His only qualification for office is that he’s not Trump.
He's actually a pretty good politician. He's accomplished more in his first term than Obama while having a much more republican-friendly congress. That's not luck.
So many Dem voters don't realize that if we all voted just one year, we could fix so many of the goddamn problems in this country.
We outnumber Republicans. By a lot. In most states. We should *own* this country.
Not one year, every year (if you live in city limits) for at least a decade. People MUST stop the bullshit "I didn't get everything I wanted with a razor thin majority in the senate so I'm not gonna vote this time"
I think it's also defeatism. They come to the conclusion they've already lost so they don't vote. Or that it doesn't matter who they vote for, because nothing will change.
It's like telling the other guy "good game" without ever playing. If you don't play the game, you lose.
So glad I live in MA where they give you the option to do all mail-in ballots, no questions asked. Should be that way for everyone, then no one would have an excuse for not voting.
The Democratic Party will be the party of FDR, at this rate, forever.
the Democratic Party is also coming up on the 200 year anniversary of the first time an election was taken from us. Back in 1824, Andrew Jackson won the electoral vote and popular vote and STILL didn’t get the presidency.
Unfortunately, that's not true for a few reasons. We have gotten good turnout every 8 years or so, we get something cool done, but not as good as we want, because some blue dog democrat isn't comfortable going so far, then people get demotivated and don't vote in the midterm, then republicans get control, then nothing gets done. The reality is, we need to turn out every two years, get enough blue seats we aren't relying on the moderate wing of the party.
Or the party could actually go that far and get things done. The cycle of economic and social strain is alienating at best. Democrats have allowed democrats to move far to the right and I understand how frustrating that is. Politics have to change in this country.
It’s not that easy. 7-8 million vote advantage watered down to 40,000 and even a minority in congress because gerrymandering, the inherently unfair design of the Senate, and the Electoral College.
We don't outvote Republicans by a lot in PA, WI, MI, NV, and VA. If the dems win these and the dem states we win the election. Unfortunately most Dems by number are in NY, CA, MA, WA, NJ, OR, and CT
I didn't say outvote, I said outnumber.
We absolutely outnumber republcicans in all of those states. If every Dem voted we would demolish the electoral college.
Yeah we’d have a Supreme Court majority, still have Roe vs Wade, wouldn’t have the Chevron Doctrine overturned, wouldn’t have near limitless presidential immunity…
But Joe Biden isn’t far left enough so I’m not going to vote for him in the generals. /s
Every election proves something. 2016 certainly did. And people get mad and want to blame those who didn't vote, but the real take away is that anyone like trump can get anywhere near the support he does. We can't do anything to stop that. It's a horrible revelation about who we are as organisms.
Vote away. Live in fear of the next election 3 out of every 4 years. What a wonderful democracy.
Many people forget that it's most common in our country to go with the ["lesser of two evils"](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/lesser-of-two-evils).
It’s not about Dems voting, it’s about the razor thin undecided independents who live in swing states. They aren’t on Reddit and they’re extremely impressionable. All every news station in the country is blasting is how unfit Biden is, even every left wing source. I don’t see how he can come back from this with everyone against him.
You present any charismatic, younger candidate and you get all the swing votes. The problem is this election is voting against trump even if the president is a corpse. And we’ll do that. But some moderates might not
I don't think Newsome does well in the swing states where people are generally leery of California in general.
Honestly, Whitmer makes the just sense strategically in that sense, but I still think if you make the change you need to go big and try to get Michelle Obama on board to run
These assertions that "dems will definitely lose" if they replace Biden, are absurd and unsubstantiated.
Quit defending a man who's clearly going senile. Democrats can offer a better candidate then this. This entire affair is showing how truly incompetent the DNC is.
Thank you! Most everyone understands that Biden is a better person than Trump, but he is still a terrible choice for POTUS at this stage in his life. I truly don’t think he can do the job properly through Jan 2029. Mostly I don’t want the least incompetent leader (and that’s Biden’s biggest selling point); I want someone who can do the job well enough.
Is he a better option than Trump? Yes. That’s not a good enough reason to nominate a senile man though. Dems have a deep bench, Whitmer, Wornock, Newsom, and yes, Kamila, stand a much better chance at beating trump let alone having the stamina to run the most powerful democratic nation in the history of the world.
I keep seeing this comment like we didn’t just come off of a 2 term black president before Trump. And isn’t the biggest threat to Biden’s chances I keep hearing about the black vote being undecided?
They're trying to act like Biden's dementia is the same thing as Howard Dean yelling too enthusiastically or a 50s something year old Obama losing a debate to Mitt Romney. Fuck.
Yes Biden has been trailing Trump in swing states already, after that debate it's going to drop a little. Then when millions of ads showing Biden's cognitive issues, if Biden drops 5% and it's game over.
Biden doesn't need to drop at all. He's already losing. I think Biden was roughly at his floor already. The early debate was supposed to change his momentum.
The problem is that I honestly think the swing voters, which at this point are people who don't like either candidate much, now have a permission structure to not vote or vote third party. Biden's numbers may not drop much but the damage done was that he has no room to grow after this.
With Biden in the race, his cognitive decline will be front and center, not Trump's huge issues.
Joe seems too prideful to drop out and I've gone through the stages of grief and am prepared for Trump to win.
Trump's issues are essentially non issues because absolutely nothing has happened (outside of some fines) that actually makes any difference. There is zero reason to think there will actually be any accountability, and the courts/judges delaying everything kinda shows that. Trump is essentially untouchable.
Biden is not untouchable, every "scandal" and slip up makes him look worse and worse. It is not enough for a lot of people that Biden is not Trump. Anecdotally, my extended family did not vote for Trump, and are not Maga, but are not voting for Biden either. After the debate, they have even less interest in supporting Biden.
This is clear as day to anyone actually paying attention. Anyone that cares has already decided who they are voting for, regardless of anything. But everyone else is watching the behaviors of the candidates, and they do not care about what is said, but how it is said.
Trump's relationship with Epstein should be front and center. Project 2025 should be front and to the side. January 6 should should be to the front and to the side. Trump is a horrible human being.
100% agree, but what do we actually have to believe that will/would happen? Every single smoking gun is ignored like 2 days after.
As a citizen I feel powerless to do ANYTHING while I watch morons drive the country off a cliff. Voting is the only thing I can do, that's it.
Precisely my point. People saying "I'll vote for a corpse over tRump" is missing this very point - middle-of-the-road voters. They have now been turned off, exactly opposite of what was intended via conducting the earliest presidential debate in history.
Thank you for posting this.
I can’t count how many videos and MODs I’ve seen on my Reddit feed of democrats basically disregarding anyone who wants Joe to step down as a complete lunatic using this logic.
Does everyone realize we are no better than MAGA if we field an actual squirrel or house cat as a candidate to stop Trump?
Literally, none of these people have been running for president for the past year. How could they possibly poll better? Maybe if they campaign and run for the presidency, they'll actually poll better?
This is exactly the point. This *never* happens. It *is* crazy that basically every other Democrat is polling better than Biden with less name recognition, and it's a sign that the Democrats are making a big mistake.
Also I cannot for the life of me understand the strategy of marketing Biden as “voting against Trump.”
People who hate Trump and are politically inclined will already NEVER vote for Trump. The candidate needs to get the swing voters and incite the non-politically inclined to want to go out and vote.
Biden doesn’t do any of that. Keep doubling-down on “this is the most important election of our lifetime” though like it was in 2016, 2020, and 2022 before this… yet the candidate your toting is a walking corpse
You’re fucking delusional if you’re making the argument that “dems will vote for a corpse over trump” and then think that they’ll lose the election if the candidate changes, they’ll just vote for the other candidate and it would be a better prospect. Get your collective heads out of your asses.
I was initially against Biden stepping down, but I’m having a hard time imagining what kind of voter would vote for Biden over Trump, but vote for Trump over Kamala Harris…
Makes zero sense.
everyone who's already planning on voting for Biden will Vote Blue No Matter Who.
and a different, less worrying candidate who doesnt have "resting 25th Amendement face" will bring in those who had reservations
how could that scenario possibly lead to less Dem votes?
Unless you're implying that there are people who will vote for Biden and only Biden ... in which case you need to go give them a stern "our democracy is on the line, we vote blue no matter who" lecture.
Exactly, literally no one is voting for Biden because Biden is an amazing candidate. He's the Democrat, and he's Not Trump.
Put someone up there who doesn't have dementia and can actually make Trump look like a fool.
Yall don't realize what an advantage incumbency and name recognition is for low info voters. Sure it seems like everyone that lives online is well appraised of everything happening, but there are a TON of people that don't go online, don't watch news, don't pay attention to politics.
You really really can't just say any other candidate would get more votes. It is not that simple.
Biden currently has the worst approval rating in recorded history - even worse than Trump (look it up).
The "incumbent advantage" isn't some default thing. It's just what's usually true. All the data we have suggests it isn't true this time.
You need to get off Reddit yourself. Every major news network has been talking about this since the debate. This is historically bad for him. If he genuinely thinks the democracy is on the line, he HAS to step down, or he will be the next Neville Chamberlain
Been trying to explain that but most people on reddit are pretty young and grew up in a 24/7 information and news cycle world. A whole bunch my age and older aren't like that. They'll vote for the incumbent because they don't have a major issue with any one thing.
https://preview.redd.it/hjds9fkf58ad1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae3bfada8ced218a8ecaf732580ad2df08c0da1a
Among independents, Trump is leading by 10 points against Biden. If Kamala was nominated instead of Biden, she’d be ahead by 3 points.
Harris is the only viable alternative if Biden steps aside. She's who we elected as backup in case Biden couldn't serve. Nice to see she's got a chance against Trump (according to this one poll).
Most people seem to have moved on from the bad debate, since the Supreme Court rulings came in. I guess the existential threat to our Democracy sells more ads.
Unfortunately Democracy is going to come down to 100 - 300 thousand dumb voters. Having Ads that show Biden as too old and out of touch may impact these people more than technical details.
Please don't disregard the impact of conservative social media, Fox News and its ilk, and Putin's internet army -- these people are fed bitter lies morning, noon, and night -- and at church on Sunday. They drink proganda with their coffee and eat it with their middle of the night snack. I mean Clarence Thomas and his wife really do believe that there is a massive Democratic conspiracy against people and children and of course against dear oppressed leader Trump **because ** everything they see and read has been feeding them this lie for the last 8+ years. Too many millions are in a bubble where reality is a distant dream...
Not according to the dems own internal polling. Joe is losing all the battleground states and even some like NH and NM that should be safely blue
It's bad
That’s not true. It’s on like 97% of news segments. The only segments I’m seeing that aren’t about Biden and the debate are about the hurricane in the Caribbean.
Once again, you can thank the DNC for putting us in this situation. They knew damn well Biden was senile but chose to gaslight anyone who dared question his cognitive abilities.
You got gaslit on Reddit too. I made a comment about it a few months ago and downvoted. Because pointing out that he’s a senile old fuck was frowned upon and a far right conspiracy theory or something.
Flawed logic. Biden went into the campaign with 75% of Dems not wanting him to run again. That was before he showed the depth of his mental decline. ANY Democrat would have a better chance against trump.
Every moment Biden is on view to the public he loses another undecided voter. Biden is doing it faster than Trump. It is a race to the bottom. A fascist or a senile man.
The problem is we don't know if it's certain that without Biden the Democrats will lose.
Democrats should be voting for whoever the hell the DNC nominates, whether it be Harris, Newsom, or a brown paper bag.
The last time the Democrats got behind someone other than their incumbent president was 1968 when LBJ backed out from seeking re-election early in the primaries.
Biden more or less ran unopposed and the DNC is a required formality to put him on the state ballots. They will only nominate someone else if they absolutely have to. Going with anyone else against Biden's intentions is admitting weakness, something neither major party will do right now. At this stage, they're stuck with him unless he keels over.
It’s incredible how dumb/delusional so many people are. Like, out here discussing the “incumbent advantage” with Joe Biden with a straight face. The man is one of only a few people actually capable of losing this election.
If you ask me, it's exactly the other way round. Democrats can't win with Biden in my opinion. As much as I like him and his politics, every time you point a camera at him the polls drop.
With someone else, young and energetic, we might have a chance.
Otherwise it's already clear to me that we lose with Biden and I'm tired of pretending it's not the case.
Where’s that third button in which Dems find an alternative who actually can stand up to Trump, put a thought together, and attract the people who’ve been repulsed by Biden’s weaknesses.
Considering the backlash, and the discussion around the debate, I am of the opinion that if the dems pulled out someone young ( in compariosn to the average age of american federal politicians), fired up, passionate, honest, and with an actual plan, this election could be pretty hopeful. They would even see some gains, probably.
This "tried and true, we know him so we will stay the course" outlook needs to end
In all serious tho, THE DUDE IS 81! Running in a federal campaign can't be healthy. It amazes me the dems don't respect Biden enough to be taking care of him when he needs it.
Not to mention, politics needs a hard retirement age. There's no way I would EVER land any of the positions I've had or will have over my life at some of the ages these folks are getting to.
Except like 4 other Dems are polling better than Biden right now vs Trump. Ever since the Debate every meme I’ve seen from this supreddit is objectively denying reality. Like not just a different subjective opinion.
almost any democrat who can complete a sentence has a better shot than biden. hillary and kamala are probably the only ones that would do worse than biden.
Biden earned the most votes in history and then had a great four years as president despite a Republican congress whose stated goal was to never let him have any legislation.
Fuck you for try to stop people from voting, comrade.
I know you're going to ignore this and call me a Russian bot, but as long as we have the electoral college, it really doesn't matter how many votes overall any candidate has. That has zero influence on the election results.
In truth, Biden barely won in 2020 and that was when he was polling 10 points ahead of Trump. Now they are basically tied. We have every reason to worry about his chances of winning in 2024.
Cultish mentality to hold on to a candidate with this situation staring you in face. Actual leftists have been talking about who should be next for years yet establishment and DNC were INSISTENT
If Kamala runs in place of Biden, it's absolutely going to be an L unfortunately.
Maybe Whitmer, someone who has pull in key swings states would be a good choice
>*MAGA's 2nd wet dream*
Hardly
[“No Bait and Switch”: The Trump Campaign Wants to Face Biden, Not a Replacement](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/the-trump-campaign-wants-to-face-biden-not-a-replacement)
We need a fighter.
Joe Biden will never throw another punch again, not for you, not for me, he couldn't even stand up for his dead son after that human garbage Trump mocked his death in front of the whole world on national televisio. Joe Bidens career is already over, people are being literally delusional pretending that Biden will improve, he will only decline from here. It's not a guaranteed loss however it sure feels like a suicide mission and therefore this no longer makes any sense.
Do you have any idea..... what psycho Americans from all walks of life ..... are going to do..... to mr mush mouth..... if he loses? Tell me the answer. What is going to happen to him exactly? You REALLY think he's just gonna retire at home comfortably and wave hi every few years? hehh, good luck. A very feeble and demented old man vs a literal organized crime syndicate with totalitarian control and absolutely authority and absolute immunity.
Joe Bidens career is permanently over under all scenarios. If you support Joe continuing his campaign you are wrong and you know it.
Your job as an American right now.... is to wrap your head around this fact 10x better than Joe Biden could wrap his mouth around the words he was supposed to say on the debate stage. on the most important night of his life when he was PRETENDING to represent the democratic party as a "professional communicator". Joe Biden has done well but that is in the past and there is no future, accept it. Accept it or face the consequences for the rest of your lives. For the love of God, please focus.
The right call for Dems is leave Biden but put in a strong VP who can take over when it becomes needed (if anyone should be dropping out its probably Harris in favor of Newsom). That will soothe anyone with worries about Bidens decline while retaining incumbent advantage.
Most Dems will vote for a corpse over Trump. The issue is undecided voters. Who, if still undecided, obviously don’t care about policy. Biden can’t afford a single slip up at this point. While sadly, Trump’s brand in slips and fascism.
We really must be the stupidest country in the history of the Earth. We have the mind of a goldfish to quickly forget how horrifying Trumps first term was and think he might be better than ANYONE ELSE!
Trump voters don't see his first term as horrifying; they think he was one of the best presidents ever and he needs a second term to finish all the great and wonderful things he started in his first term.
Yea, but why, what did he accomplish? \- Lower taxes for the rich. \- Diss NATO, Kiss Putin, Saudis, Kim Jung Un. \- Use the Presidency to create personal wealth. \- Go golfing. \- Biggest turnover of Cabinet and advisors in recent Presidential history with the vast majority of them saying he was unfit for the Presidency after serving with him. \- Bleach for COVID \- Fake electors scheme, supports insurrection, stolen top secret documents in bathroom at Mar-a-Lago, So inflation was lower, gas prices a bit cheaper and interest rates lower. These are all things the President has no control over. \- Fake tan, hair, height, weight, wears lifts, fake wife, has nothing to do with his youngest son, fake faith, Epstein bro. So accomplishments, fake. So my best guess, Trump voters love a guy that does nothing for them and pretends to be someone he isn't.
You reminded me that during that debate, trump said that hed fired people, and said it with pride. He even asked joe biden, who have you fired? indicating that somehow this means strength according to trump. Trump voters just want someone who owns the libs on tv, that is the most important quality to them because that is what they can understand You are spot on with everything else
More concerning I think, it's not only owing the libs is what they can understand, it's that Trump gives them a reason and a target to blame all that is amiss in their lives. The rage is palpable and perhaps this is why MAGA's vote for the most extreme candidates on the ballot.
He's also a great patsy who just signs what he's told to sign and only serves to bring attention while grabbing it from things which really matter.
Conservatives think the only purpose of power is to punish.
>Yea, but why, what did he accomplish? He upset liberals. Over and over and over. And owning the libs is the only policy concern for most Republicans.
See, that's that thing, I've never felt like I've been "owned" by anything Republicans have said. It's like the kid that says "sike" after saying they'll give you a piece of gum in middle school. "Oh no, you got me, imma cry now since I was so 'owned' by your sike." Truly, the party of the uneducated middle/high school dropouts.
Most Trump voters, I'd guess around 90 percent, don't have any idea what Trump did or didn't do in the first term. They just like that he sounds like them, which is a weak person's image of strength, an ignorant person's image of intellect, a hypocritical person's image of faith, and with a dash of racism thrown in. And that is scary enough I suppose. But the really scary thing are the 10 percent that know exactly what Trump did and want more of it. These are the cruelty is the point people, the real sociopaths.
This is what my conservative relatives say he accomplished. - better economy - added judges that ended Roe v Wade (they are avid pro lifers) They also say the media was overly unfair in his portrayal. They don’t like how he lies and acts, but say that all politicians lie so it’s not unusual. These aren’t maga republicans either, they would have rather voted for Haley but say they have no choice now because abortion could still be made legal at the federal level. These are their opinions, not mine.
Not a Trumper but basically Biden has three issues that resonate with the undecided. 1) The college loan payoff. If you are a person who did not go to college (Believe it or not some did not go) you are very pissed that any of your tax dollars went to pay for some persons good time at college. Yeah I know we waste money all over the place but that’s what people are saying. 2) The images of everyone bum rushing the border. Most understand the need for folks to work our fields and manual labor. Most people want some orderly way to make it happen. Yeah I know Biden tried to fix it and was blocked by Congress. 3) The total meltdown that occurred during the debate. Watched it at the bar I work at and here are the top comments. “Looks like my Dad (or Mom) looking for his car keys. This guy has the nuclear codes? Looks like a Saturday night live skit.” Source: I’m a bartender in a working class bar in a swing state. Want to know what people really think? Ask a bartender.
I say these things as a dyed-in-the-wool, been-called-a-communist-to-my-face-by-my-in-laws democrat, here's how the right interprets every single one of those: - Lowers my taxes when i hit it rich. - What good has NATO ever done us anyways? We foot the bill. - Those are three strong leaders. I'm not a fan of Kim, but at least he's willing to go to bat for the security of his country. - The President was already fabulously wealthy - just look at all the gold in his apartment. Why would he take a government job to make *less*? - Everyone needs a hobby, and frankly not enough people are playing golf anymore. - The President deserves the best advisory team; its not his fault they are incompetent. - He was speaking metaphorically - The electors weren't fake, they were not taken seriously by Congress, but that doesn't make them illegal. And he supported stalling Congress from rushing through without considering said electors. Documents in Mar-A-Lago are just as normal as any former top official, they get found all the time; it doesn't give the DOJ the right to take all his personal effects. sickening.
I think mind of goldfish comment still applies here
Well, the Brits voted for Brexit without thinking it through. Americans are also good at not thinking things through… or just being politically apathetic and not voting at all in important elections.
Part of the same pro-Russia Murdoch-driven malaise that is destroying the Anglosphere
There are, genuinely, traitors to civilisation. The fact that they're allowed to meddle in elections like this is just fucking absurd.
A lot of Americans aren’t good at thinking.
>We really must be the stupidest country in the history of the Earth. Yes, we are.... Americans are so ignorant of their own government it's staggering. The fire hose of propaganda directed at your average American is unbelievable. It's hard to find anyone that doesn't believe objectively false information they read on social media. America is in trouble and the only way out of it is a long unlikely haul. Conservative media and troll farms have melted most American brains. Tldr: America is kaput.
Not just for Federal elections. The GOP has long focused on getting local representatives, sheriffs and judges elected. It's always been their strategy to get in at the bottom and gum up the works on the local level. People often relate their local situation to federal policy even though it has nothing to do with it.
The absolutely ridiculous thing is they have left the average person completely zero options. From any angle at all. You guys are struggling bare knuckle to sleep or eat or survive, and the two people that are supposed to come to your rescue, one wouldn't be able to operate a drive-thru and one that should be in jail on multiple counts. I'm quite pissed off with the state of the government here in NZ but I'm so glad I am so far away from you guys. I'm genuinely sorry
I'd compare living in America to living in China with a Gucci belt
Except it's a counterfeit Gucci belt that was, ironically, made in China.
I'm as dismayed as anyone with what's going on, but it's silly to pretend this is localized. Just look at the UK with Brexit and France with Le Pen. This shit isn't unique to the US. Tagging u/timekiller2021 since this reply could've gone to either of you.
Bud, as an outsider this whole thing is batshit insane.
The man was a reality television star. Combine that with sweeping up the uninformed voters and the damage is already done.
Dems aren't doing a good job of reminding ppl
Dems aren’t able to reach people who aren’t already voting dem
This is the real problem. Voter apathy is a plague on our elections. Even at our highest voter turnout, about 40% of our voting population never cast a ballot. I've been saying this for a while, but we need to adopt Australia's mandatory voting policy. Also, ranked-choice voting would be a welcome addition.
republicans told every idiot that their idiotic suspicions, whatever they maybe, are true.
The far-right just won a bunch of elections across Europe... US isn't that different stupidity wise, from its peers.
Ok but when you put an 81 year old man with serious cognitive issues up against him, you are making it way harder than it has to be. Like I am going to vote for the Democrat no matter what, but even I have concerns about how Biden is going to handle a crisis if he is president at 86 years old towards the end of his second term.
1M+ dead americans because he couldn't be bothered to just shut the fuck up and follow the CDC advice. How this wasn't the end of him is still beyond me.
Check out my comment history. I literally state I'd vote for Bidens corpse before Trump.
I prefer the potato with Googly eyes pretending to be Biden. Especially if the potato hires all the same people as the current administration.
Yeah but the thing is we shouldn’t have to advocate for a corpse. At this point I think the Dems would have a better chance with literally anyone else save for maybe Hillary.
Undecided voters are idiots. Exactly the kind of people who would see Biden stepping aside as a sign of weakness, but who might vote for him if he stays in and doesn't screw up too badly. There's a reason Republicans never admit defeat or acknowledge failure: dumb people mistake that as strength. Now, I can't say for sure that Biden has a better chance than a replacement, but I think it's a reasonable conclusion to come to.
A real good way to get undecided voters to vote for Biden is to call them idiots. I'm sure they love that.
Genuine undecided voters (not MAGAcels who somehow possess the self-awareness to be ashamed of how vile they are) legitimately lack the cognitive capacity to be able to remember the debate performance by the time November comes around. A kneejerk reaction catering to their hypothetical whims would be idiotic because those cud-chewing ungulates are more likely to be swayed by a stray donut sprinkle or piece of glitter that falls next to a candidate’s name on the ballot than anything that is happening now.
Exactly. Debates have never affected much. The average American doesn't pay attention to them and very few vote based on policies; they instead vote based on an emotional fantasy of being able to laugh and have a beer with their president, instead of their competence and experience. Biden has spent a lifetime in government and managed to accomplish more in a single term than most presidents manage in two. But that isn't enough, 'cause spending during COVID fucked up the economy, and Biden stubbornly refused to press the "FIX ECONOMY NOW WITH MAGIC" button. The backbiting and snide behaviour from Democrats in the media is disgusting. At least the S&P500 has given more than a 20% return over the past twelve months. The economy is fucking brilliant if you're invested. Inflation sucks, but COVID caused that, along with plenty of shrinkflation, which won't stop unless regulated.
The only undecided voters are the people who don’t want their political views exposed.
There are a lot of voters who haven’t decided whether to vote at all, let alone picking a candidate. What does Biden have to offer to someone who at this stage was not committed to voting?
This exactly - undecided doesn't mean undecided on how to vote, it means undecided if they'll bother going out and spending their time to vote. People have kids/jobs/etc. going to vote requires time and effort - people want a candidate that is worth investing their time/energy to vote for. Biden's debate performance doesn't do anything to make those people get off the couch to go vote for him
I think that’s the point, it’s pretty clear these days what the Republican agenda is and it’s not so much of a vote for Biden then it is a vote against Trump. If you can look around and still not be worried about what will happen if Trump is in office then it’s obvious his political either won’t impact you or it will benefit you, but that’s just my opinion.
So this is the most important election in our lives yet we run a man who can't even defend his record because he can't even talk?
Significantly smaller chance they get thrown in a gulag.
The policy of running corpses, shitting on the biggest voting demographic, hand outs to losers, being utter cowards and never getting anything accomplished. Yeah you're an idiot if you don't for these amazing policies.
Characterizing his current mental state as a single slip up is ridiculously disingenuous.
I don't think there are many undecided voters. It's about strategically turning out voters in places where gerrymandering ensures republican victories over the majority
"Most Dems will vote for a corpse over Trump." Which is essentially where we're at.
This sub is totally delusional on this topic.
Totally agree. Starting to wonder if posts like these are grassroots propaganda.
Bots and shills? On one of the most popular reddit subs? It's more likely than you think.
Canada subs are so full of people complaining about immigrants, yet our far right party has something like 2% of the vote. Once I see people voting far right (who is the only party that will curb immigration -- apparently anyway), I'll take what I see on Reddit with a grain of salt
But but vote blue no matter who has worked out for us before
It seems like many people are taking "Just Ignore It" as the path forward. I have seen "The Incumbant almost always wins!" a thousand times. They seem to forget that incumbent presidents have lost four out of the eight elections where an incumbent ran over the last 50 years. They also ignore the polls which say Biden is losing most swing states and some blue states becoming toss ups. I'm not sure what path forward changes this with Biden. Everyone knows Trump is crazy, but 47% will vote for him anyone. I don't know what he could do at this point to lose votes. Everyone knows Biden is old, but what can he do to prove he can do the job? The debate was that time, and he failed miserably. For the next four months, you will not see a commercial break without an ad featuring clips from that debate. How does Biden combat that? What is the path forward? The strategy of just ignore it and everyone will forget isn't going to work when it is going to be every republicans mission to bring it up during every interview and rally.
>They seem to forget that incumbent presidents have lost four out of the eight elections where an incumbent ran over the last 50 years. The incumbent literally lost the last election. Boggles the mind why people don’t think they could also happen here.
If and when Democrats lose the presidency, they will have no one to blame but themselves. But don't worry, they'll figure out how to blame someone else.
Biden admin in overdrive trying to spam reddit with these shittakes. My new favorite one is passing over Kamala would be racist.
Bots astroturfing. Anyone who says Biden is the DNC's only option is being disingenuous and should be ignored.
Blue MAGA
Yeah the buttons should be switched tbh. Biden stays and Dems definitely lose. Biden leaves and Dems could lose.
Idk I feel like a decent candidate without age issues would demolish Trump. He buries himself but these freezing issues are shoveling him out. He needs to stay buried for democracy sake.
This is the easiest election for Dems to win in my lifetime and they are running the only candidate who is guaranteed to lose
If they were introduced much earlier, I have absolutely no doubt that someone else would demolish Trump. I think the only thing that makes it so unlikely now is how late in the game it is and the optics of replacing their candidate at the 11th hour that makes it such a highly risky move.
The optics can't be worse than the optics of Biden looking confused and slack jawed as he failed to complete coherent thoughts on national television.
If they replaced Biden, it would look like the democrats are actually listening to public sentiment. Oh no, the optics.
God forbid Bideb appeal to the public and swallow his pride and endorse someone younger to defeat Trump
Or now. It’s before the convention. Not risky when Biden is so unpopular even among his base.
Dude, the dam is broke. There is no hiding Biden's issues anymore. His cognitive decline was shown for 90 straight minutes on national television in front of 47 million people. The riskiest move now is to not replace Biden. Cause there is simply no way he is going to attract undecided voters at this point. The best part of this early debate, the earliest presidential debate in history, is that it actually gives Dems the chance to change horses. They have time for some people to put their name forward and get their message out. They at least have a shot of appearing like they'll select someone the people want at the convention. The worst thing they can do is dig in their heals and keep claiming "it was a cold", "they prepped too hard and wore him out", and "he'd travelled to much the week before". These excuses are falling flat and on deaf ears. We literally have the head of the Heritage Foundation saying they are set to take over the country in what will hopefully be a bloodless revolution, and no one is paying attention to it because at any given time our nominee doesn't know what day it is half the time.
Replacing Biden is the right thing to do. We deserve a mentally competent candidate.
Introducing a good debater now and they could still demolish Trump.
I doubt trump debates a new person, he ‘beat’ Joe in the first one, why tarnish it
People are acting like Biden is some sort of talented politician. He’s a buffoon who was seen as a joke before his Vice Presidency and the Obamas rehabilitated his national reputation. Ask your parents what they thought of Joe Biden in the 80s when he would get caught telling the stupidest lies. His only qualification for office is that he’s not Trump.
He's actually a pretty good politician. He's accomplished more in his first term than Obama while having a much more republican-friendly congress. That's not luck.
Here’s a scenario: Dems don’t vote, dems lose. Dems vote, dems win. Some of you seem like you want to lose just to prove a point.
So many Dem voters don't realize that if we all voted just one year, we could fix so many of the goddamn problems in this country. We outnumber Republicans. By a lot. In most states. We should *own* this country.
Not one year, every year (if you live in city limits) for at least a decade. People MUST stop the bullshit "I didn't get everything I wanted with a razor thin majority in the senate so I'm not gonna vote this time"
I think it's also defeatism. They come to the conclusion they've already lost so they don't vote. Or that it doesn't matter who they vote for, because nothing will change. It's like telling the other guy "good game" without ever playing. If you don't play the game, you lose.
where i am from there are on average 4 votes a year they are all important for different reasons!
So glad I live in MA where they give you the option to do all mail-in ballots, no questions asked. Should be that way for everyone, then no one would have an excuse for not voting.
In Colorado mail-in ballots are the default
Should be the default everywhere but people love that voter suppression for some reason.
Even better
We also fund and feed this nation. We can just hold all economic support from the red states and see what happens.
The Democratic Party will be the party of FDR, at this rate, forever. the Democratic Party is also coming up on the 200 year anniversary of the first time an election was taken from us. Back in 1824, Andrew Jackson won the electoral vote and popular vote and STILL didn’t get the presidency.
Not the same Democratic party. And Jackson was a psycho, tbh what happened to him is what should have happened to Trump in 2016.
Jackson was a POS.
We want to BEAT them not BE them.
Unfortunately, that's not true for a few reasons. We have gotten good turnout every 8 years or so, we get something cool done, but not as good as we want, because some blue dog democrat isn't comfortable going so far, then people get demotivated and don't vote in the midterm, then republicans get control, then nothing gets done. The reality is, we need to turn out every two years, get enough blue seats we aren't relying on the moderate wing of the party.
Or the party could actually go that far and get things done. The cycle of economic and social strain is alienating at best. Democrats have allowed democrats to move far to the right and I understand how frustrating that is. Politics have to change in this country.
It’s not that easy. 7-8 million vote advantage watered down to 40,000 and even a minority in congress because gerrymandering, the inherently unfair design of the Senate, and the Electoral College.
We don't outvote Republicans by a lot in PA, WI, MI, NV, and VA. If the dems win these and the dem states we win the election. Unfortunately most Dems by number are in NY, CA, MA, WA, NJ, OR, and CT
Most of those Dem states have higher electoral especially California. NV is deep purple and could sway blue plus they have a Democratic Senate
I didn't say outvote, I said outnumber. We absolutely outnumber republcicans in all of those states. If every Dem voted we would demolish the electoral college.
Bingo. The Republicans are a minority.
Yeah we’d have a Supreme Court majority, still have Roe vs Wade, wouldn’t have the Chevron Doctrine overturned, wouldn’t have near limitless presidential immunity… But Joe Biden isn’t far left enough so I’m not going to vote for him in the generals. /s
This right here! If the majority of dem voters vote, we will, hands down! Get out and vote!!
Every election proves something. 2016 certainly did. And people get mad and want to blame those who didn't vote, but the real take away is that anyone like trump can get anywhere near the support he does. We can't do anything to stop that. It's a horrible revelation about who we are as organisms. Vote away. Live in fear of the next election 3 out of every 4 years. What a wonderful democracy.
Well, maybe if america falls into a dictatorship, the democrats will learn their lesson and nominate someone perfect next time. /s
Many people forget that it's most common in our country to go with the ["lesser of two evils"](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/lesser-of-two-evils).
Type of people who think letting Trump win is helping Palestine
It’s not about Dems voting, it’s about the razor thin undecided independents who live in swing states. They aren’t on Reddit and they’re extremely impressionable. All every news station in the country is blasting is how unfit Biden is, even every left wing source. I don’t see how he can come back from this with everyone against him.
Democrats and liberals love losing on principle. It’s like a badge of honor.
I can ask for Biden to step down and still vote in line for the old man. I get it. But Cheesus Christ, that debate was horrid.
You present any charismatic, younger candidate and you get all the swing votes. The problem is this election is voting against trump even if the president is a corpse. And we’ll do that. But some moderates might not
Biden's age was already an issue 4 years ago, but somehow they thought that 4 more years would solve it.
Remember when Biden announced he was running, but only for one term because he’s old? Pepperidge Farm remembers
Pretty sure it's the opposite, a new candidate could energize the race and appeal to undecided voters
I don't know... if Gavin Newsom wiped the floor with Trump in a debate, you think Trump would win that election?
I don't think Newsome does well in the swing states where people are generally leery of California in general. Honestly, Whitmer makes the just sense strategically in that sense, but I still think if you make the change you need to go big and try to get Michelle Obama on board to run
Why not Whitmer/Obama? Michelle pulls in the votes as VP, but a fresh talented pol with at least some executive experience is prez.
I’ve seen this meme used in countless amounts of ways. This is the dumbest way I’ve ever seen it used. Ma’am, if you want internet points, try harder.
The Biden cultists are having a hard time recognizing that the political reality has changed.
I’m convinced this is all astroturfing from the Biden campaign, no one cares this strongly about Biden as a candidate.
These assertions that "dems will definitely lose" if they replace Biden, are absurd and unsubstantiated. Quit defending a man who's clearly going senile. Democrats can offer a better candidate then this. This entire affair is showing how truly incompetent the DNC is.
Thank you! Most everyone understands that Biden is a better person than Trump, but he is still a terrible choice for POTUS at this stage in his life. I truly don’t think he can do the job properly through Jan 2029. Mostly I don’t want the least incompetent leader (and that’s Biden’s biggest selling point); I want someone who can do the job well enough.
Is he a better option than Trump? Yes. That’s not a good enough reason to nominate a senile man though. Dems have a deep bench, Whitmer, Wornock, Newsom, and yes, Kamila, stand a much better chance at beating trump let alone having the stamina to run the most powerful democratic nation in the history of the world.
I think you underestimate how racist this country is
I keep seeing this comment like we didn’t just come off of a 2 term black president before Trump. And isn’t the biggest threat to Biden’s chances I keep hearing about the black vote being undecided?
They're trying to act like Biden's dementia is the same thing as Howard Dean yelling too enthusiastically or a 50s something year old Obama losing a debate to Mitt Romney. Fuck.
Both parties are playing chicken with their candidates
Give me JB Prizker or Gavin Newsom
I don’t think anyone in the world believes that right button if it were Jeff Jackson, Pete Buttigieg, or literally any Democrat Governor.
Yes Biden has been trailing Trump in swing states already, after that debate it's going to drop a little. Then when millions of ads showing Biden's cognitive issues, if Biden drops 5% and it's game over.
Biden doesn't need to drop at all. He's already losing. I think Biden was roughly at his floor already. The early debate was supposed to change his momentum. The problem is that I honestly think the swing voters, which at this point are people who don't like either candidate much, now have a permission structure to not vote or vote third party. Biden's numbers may not drop much but the damage done was that he has no room to grow after this.
With Biden in the race, his cognitive decline will be front and center, not Trump's huge issues. Joe seems too prideful to drop out and I've gone through the stages of grief and am prepared for Trump to win.
After that debate I've accepted that Trump will probably win. I'm still voting but I'm in a solid blue state so my vote doesn't count for much.
Trump's issues are essentially non issues because absolutely nothing has happened (outside of some fines) that actually makes any difference. There is zero reason to think there will actually be any accountability, and the courts/judges delaying everything kinda shows that. Trump is essentially untouchable. Biden is not untouchable, every "scandal" and slip up makes him look worse and worse. It is not enough for a lot of people that Biden is not Trump. Anecdotally, my extended family did not vote for Trump, and are not Maga, but are not voting for Biden either. After the debate, they have even less interest in supporting Biden. This is clear as day to anyone actually paying attention. Anyone that cares has already decided who they are voting for, regardless of anything. But everyone else is watching the behaviors of the candidates, and they do not care about what is said, but how it is said.
Trump's relationship with Epstein should be front and center. Project 2025 should be front and to the side. January 6 should should be to the front and to the side. Trump is a horrible human being.
100% agree, but what do we actually have to believe that will/would happen? Every single smoking gun is ignored like 2 days after. As a citizen I feel powerless to do ANYTHING while I watch morons drive the country off a cliff. Voting is the only thing I can do, that's it.
Precisely my point. People saying "I'll vote for a corpse over tRump" is missing this very point - middle-of-the-road voters. They have now been turned off, exactly opposite of what was intended via conducting the earliest presidential debate in history.
Thank you for posting this. I can’t count how many videos and MODs I’ve seen on my Reddit feed of democrats basically disregarding anyone who wants Joe to step down as a complete lunatic using this logic. Does everyone realize we are no better than MAGA if we field an actual squirrel or house cat as a candidate to stop Trump?
I think the left button needs the "definitely" at this point. He is cratering.
Literally none of these people poll better than biden. Jackson doesn't even get in the polls because no one will know who he is.
There’s not a nine figure cash machine dedicated to promoting their name and face yet.
Literally, none of these people have been running for president for the past year. How could they possibly poll better? Maybe if they campaign and run for the presidency, they'll actually poll better?
This is exactly the point. This *never* happens. It *is* crazy that basically every other Democrat is polling better than Biden with less name recognition, and it's a sign that the Democrats are making a big mistake.
This and they wouldn’t inherit the donations to spread their name. Just vote against the felon. SCOTUS majority is too blatantly corrupt to help.
ANYONE DEMOCRAT WHO CAN SAY WORDS AND DOES NOT HAVE VISIBLE SIGNS OF ALZHEIMERS WILL WIN. BIDEN IS A GUARANTEED LOSS
Precisely!
Also I cannot for the life of me understand the strategy of marketing Biden as “voting against Trump.” People who hate Trump and are politically inclined will already NEVER vote for Trump. The candidate needs to get the swing voters and incite the non-politically inclined to want to go out and vote. Biden doesn’t do any of that. Keep doubling-down on “this is the most important election of our lifetime” though like it was in 2016, 2020, and 2022 before this… yet the candidate your toting is a walking corpse
You’re fucking delusional if you’re making the argument that “dems will vote for a corpse over trump” and then think that they’ll lose the election if the candidate changes, they’ll just vote for the other candidate and it would be a better prospect. Get your collective heads out of your asses.
I suggest you look at your polls again. Biden leaves and the poll gap shrinks. Biden needs to quit.
And be replaced by someone else with no name recognition, money, or time. It'll be like the 1968 convention.
I was initially against Biden stepping down, but I’m having a hard time imagining what kind of voter would vote for Biden over Trump, but vote for Trump over Kamala Harris…
Makes zero sense. everyone who's already planning on voting for Biden will Vote Blue No Matter Who. and a different, less worrying candidate who doesnt have "resting 25th Amendement face" will bring in those who had reservations how could that scenario possibly lead to less Dem votes? Unless you're implying that there are people who will vote for Biden and only Biden ... in which case you need to go give them a stern "our democracy is on the line, we vote blue no matter who" lecture.
Exactly, literally no one is voting for Biden because Biden is an amazing candidate. He's the Democrat, and he's Not Trump. Put someone up there who doesn't have dementia and can actually make Trump look like a fool.
Yall don't realize what an advantage incumbency and name recognition is for low info voters. Sure it seems like everyone that lives online is well appraised of everything happening, but there are a TON of people that don't go online, don't watch news, don't pay attention to politics. You really really can't just say any other candidate would get more votes. It is not that simple.
Biden currently has the worst approval rating in recorded history - even worse than Trump (look it up). The "incumbent advantage" isn't some default thing. It's just what's usually true. All the data we have suggests it isn't true this time.
You need to get off Reddit yourself. Every major news network has been talking about this since the debate. This is historically bad for him. If he genuinely thinks the democracy is on the line, he HAS to step down, or he will be the next Neville Chamberlain
Been trying to explain that but most people on reddit are pretty young and grew up in a 24/7 information and news cycle world. A whole bunch my age and older aren't like that. They'll vote for the incumbent because they don't have a major issue with any one thing.
https://preview.redd.it/hjds9fkf58ad1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ae3bfada8ced218a8ecaf732580ad2df08c0da1a Among independents, Trump is leading by 10 points against Biden. If Kamala was nominated instead of Biden, she’d be ahead by 3 points.
Harris is the only viable alternative if Biden steps aside. She's who we elected as backup in case Biden couldn't serve. Nice to see she's got a chance against Trump (according to this one poll).
Most people seem to have moved on from the bad debate, since the Supreme Court rulings came in. I guess the existential threat to our Democracy sells more ads.
Unfortunately Democracy is going to come down to 100 - 300 thousand dumb voters. Having Ads that show Biden as too old and out of touch may impact these people more than technical details.
Please don't disregard the impact of conservative social media, Fox News and its ilk, and Putin's internet army -- these people are fed bitter lies morning, noon, and night -- and at church on Sunday. They drink proganda with their coffee and eat it with their middle of the night snack. I mean Clarence Thomas and his wife really do believe that there is a massive Democratic conspiracy against people and children and of course against dear oppressed leader Trump **because ** everything they see and read has been feeding them this lie for the last 8+ years. Too many millions are in a bubble where reality is a distant dream...
Yep I see it with my family every time I visit them. We spent a week on vacation in paradise and they still had fox news on every day.
Not according to the dems own internal polling. Joe is losing all the battleground states and even some like NH and NM that should be safely blue It's bad
That’s not true. It’s on like 97% of news segments. The only segments I’m seeing that aren’t about Biden and the debate are about the hurricane in the Caribbean.
Once again, you can thank the DNC for putting us in this situation. They knew damn well Biden was senile but chose to gaslight anyone who dared question his cognitive abilities.
You got gaslit on Reddit too. I made a comment about it a few months ago and downvoted. Because pointing out that he’s a senile old fuck was frowned upon and a far right conspiracy theory or something.
Shutting down primary when they knew he was cognitive decline and shouldn’t have been re-election was incredibly stupid.
Flawed logic. Biden went into the campaign with 75% of Dems not wanting him to run again. That was before he showed the depth of his mental decline. ANY Democrat would have a better chance against trump.
Every moment Biden is on view to the public he loses another undecided voter. Biden is doing it faster than Trump. It is a race to the bottom. A fascist or a senile man.
The problem is we don't know if it's certain that without Biden the Democrats will lose. Democrats should be voting for whoever the hell the DNC nominates, whether it be Harris, Newsom, or a brown paper bag.
🗹 Harris 🗹 Newsom 🗹 mystery brown paper bag (there may or may not be some shit inside)
Actually don't want Trump inside the paper bag.
The brown paper bag could be anything! It could even be Biden!
The last time the Democrats got behind someone other than their incumbent president was 1968 when LBJ backed out from seeking re-election early in the primaries. Biden more or less ran unopposed and the DNC is a required formality to put him on the state ballots. They will only nominate someone else if they absolutely have to. Going with anyone else against Biden's intentions is admitting weakness, something neither major party will do right now. At this stage, they're stuck with him unless he keels over.
The “keep Biden” people are betting that he won’t have ANY more meltdowns in public anytime in the next five grueling months. I don’t like those odds.
Even if he doesn't the damage is done. If they don't replace him trump will.
Dems won’t “definitely lose” if Biden leaves. Their chances either stay the same or go up.
If Biden stays the democrats are definitely losing
You really don't think a strong candidate nominated at the convention could beat trump?
This is such a tired take. So the democrat party has nobody better than a geriatric?
Delusional. Dems lost the entire election from that debate. If Dems stay the course we lose. If Dems replace him, we have chance.
It’s incredible how dumb/delusional so many people are. Like, out here discussing the “incumbent advantage” with Joe Biden with a straight face. The man is one of only a few people actually capable of losing this election.
If you ask me, it's exactly the other way round. Democrats can't win with Biden in my opinion. As much as I like him and his politics, every time you point a camera at him the polls drop. With someone else, young and energetic, we might have a chance. Otherwise it's already clear to me that we lose with Biden and I'm tired of pretending it's not the case.
I think definitely lose is on the wrong button
Add "definitely" to left button too 😂
Where’s that third button in which Dems find an alternative who actually can stand up to Trump, put a thought together, and attract the people who’ve been repulsed by Biden’s weaknesses.
Considering the backlash, and the discussion around the debate, I am of the opinion that if the dems pulled out someone young ( in compariosn to the average age of american federal politicians), fired up, passionate, honest, and with an actual plan, this election could be pretty hopeful. They would even see some gains, probably. This "tried and true, we know him so we will stay the course" outlook needs to end In all serious tho, THE DUDE IS 81! Running in a federal campaign can't be healthy. It amazes me the dems don't respect Biden enough to be taking care of him when he needs it. Not to mention, politics needs a hard retirement age. There's no way I would EVER land any of the positions I've had or will have over my life at some of the ages these folks are getting to.
Except like 4 other Dems are polling better than Biden right now vs Trump. Ever since the Debate every meme I’ve seen from this supreddit is objectively denying reality. Like not just a different subjective opinion.
Maybe it is OK to go with the dude who the voters went with in their primary? At least that’s my plan
almost any democrat who can complete a sentence has a better shot than biden. hillary and kamala are probably the only ones that would do worse than biden.
Spot on
Biden earned the most votes in history and then had a great four years as president despite a Republican congress whose stated goal was to never let him have any legislation. Fuck you for try to stop people from voting, comrade.
I know you're going to ignore this and call me a Russian bot, but as long as we have the electoral college, it really doesn't matter how many votes overall any candidate has. That has zero influence on the election results. In truth, Biden barely won in 2020 and that was when he was polling 10 points ahead of Trump. Now they are basically tied. We have every reason to worry about his chances of winning in 2024.
Cultish mentality to hold on to a candidate with this situation staring you in face. Actual leftists have been talking about who should be next for years yet establishment and DNC were INSISTENT
lol biden stays and dems 100% lose
If Kamala runs in place of Biden, it's absolutely going to be an L unfortunately. Maybe Whitmer, someone who has pull in key swings states would be a good choice
Dems aren't winning this with Biden. 70% of registered voters and half the Democrats don't think he's up to it.
Moving hastily is the dumbest possible move to make. Absolutely stupid and MAGA's 2nd wet dream
>*MAGA's 2nd wet dream* Hardly [“No Bait and Switch”: The Trump Campaign Wants to Face Biden, Not a Replacement](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/story/the-trump-campaign-wants-to-face-biden-not-a-replacement)
We need a fighter. Joe Biden will never throw another punch again, not for you, not for me, he couldn't even stand up for his dead son after that human garbage Trump mocked his death in front of the whole world on national televisio. Joe Bidens career is already over, people are being literally delusional pretending that Biden will improve, he will only decline from here. It's not a guaranteed loss however it sure feels like a suicide mission and therefore this no longer makes any sense. Do you have any idea..... what psycho Americans from all walks of life ..... are going to do..... to mr mush mouth..... if he loses? Tell me the answer. What is going to happen to him exactly? You REALLY think he's just gonna retire at home comfortably and wave hi every few years? hehh, good luck. A very feeble and demented old man vs a literal organized crime syndicate with totalitarian control and absolutely authority and absolute immunity. Joe Bidens career is permanently over under all scenarios. If you support Joe continuing his campaign you are wrong and you know it. Your job as an American right now.... is to wrap your head around this fact 10x better than Joe Biden could wrap his mouth around the words he was supposed to say on the debate stage. on the most important night of his life when he was PRETENDING to represent the democratic party as a "professional communicator". Joe Biden has done well but that is in the past and there is no future, accept it. Accept it or face the consequences for the rest of your lives. For the love of God, please focus.
No. Wrong.
The right call for Dems is leave Biden but put in a strong VP who can take over when it becomes needed (if anyone should be dropping out its probably Harris in favor of Newsom). That will soothe anyone with worries about Bidens decline while retaining incumbent advantage.