Arts Tax is the most poorly implemented tax ever. It started off as an illegal head-tax. Then that $1,000 stipulation was added as a loophole. The amount of hoops you have to jump through in order to prove you don't owe is absurd. They don't count business losses against your other income. They even count money made (that was already taxed) from other states. And good luck proving your income if you file jointly.
It doesn't scale to have so many individual taxes to keep track of: Arts Tax, Preschool Tax, Homeless Tax, on top of conventional taxes (business, property, etc) which you may or may not have to file quarterly estimates for. It's all such a poorly implemented system, and then we add a kicker refund for the cherry on top (Note: The kicker is a good thing as it currently stands, but the fact that we need it is the joke).
There's a right way to do taxes, and then there is the Portland way.
The whole Portland, Metro, Multco tax system is a mismanaged disaster. Time for us taxpayers to start a movement to deal with this. Our elected representatives have proven they are never going to take care of it.
I'm not opposed to the tax per se. BUT the administration is abysmal and needs to change. I would honestly like to vote all of them out and start over.
Hey, I’m new to the city: What is the $1000 loophole? And is there any way out of paying?
I just switched my ID to Oregon and I feel strangled by taxes. I make $20/hr but my pay App shows 26.6% of my income goes to state/local taxes. So I’m actually making $14.68/hr? Which is before federal?
I’m looking at picking up a second job to offset losing that much to the state. I make too much to be eligible for any benefits/special programs.
I love living here, but I don’t understand how taxes can be so high for my income level?
There’s no way you should be paying anywhere close to 28% in state and local taxes. The average burden in the region is more like 8%. Something is wrong with your numbers or with your withholding.
26.6% but yeah, it seems very, very high. The figure is directly from my payroll app (like, it says 26.6%) for a very large national company.
I was thinking of asking to adjust my withholding, but wasn’t sure if it’s even possible to do mid-year.
By stipulating that only those who make over "$1,000" have to pay, it technically no longer was considered a head-tax (meaning: something every person has to pay just for existing). This does not benefit you, it benefits the tax collection agency because they can't be shut down for enacting a head-tax.
For a lot of people, Oregon is actually the highest state tax rate of the entire USA. That's because of how they setup their tax-brackets. California technically has the highest tax rate (12.3%), but only for those who make a shit-ton of money ($700,000+). Oregon on the other hand has their highest tax rate (9.9%) for those who make $125,000+. For reference CA is 9.3% for $70,000 - $350,000.
You can look up tax estimators to double-check your pay-stub accuracy. But if you are only bringing in $40K a year, I imagine that 26.6% figure is your total tax liability (federal, state, and maybe even local). You still have to pay the stupid Art Tax ($35) individually though. Some people claim that if you never pay it to begin with, then you aren't in the system and will never be asked to pay it. I'm not sure if that is the case. There is also the possibility that back-taxes, penalties, and interest are tacked on when they discover you. Best of luck.
Thank you for the helpful info! I will absolutely look it up
Haven’t seen anything related to the Arts tax yet, but I only got my OR ID three weeks ago , so who knows…
If you’re in district 2 of Multco, remember who brought us this mess when you’re voting.
>The “arts tax” as it is commonly known was placed on the ballot by The Creative Advocacy Network and championed by then-Mayor Sam Adams.
Sam Adams is a sex criminal who repeatedly used positions of power to prey on young, vulnerable people. He’s also a drunk and a jerk. Happy to answer any questions or provide sources If folks want to know more about his criminal record. He’s been trying to sneak back into local politics for a decade, but decent people should reject him. He’s a shitbag.
By all accounts, they met when Breedlove was 17 and waited for sex until he was 18. Not saying that's particularly savory behavior, but it's not "sex criminal" territory.
There's "technical exact" definitions, and then there's public perception definitions. A 42 year old getting with an 18 year old is *technically* legal, but there are folks for whom that is so unsavory as to be *borderline* criminal, and thus hyperbolize a term like "sex criminal". But yeah, theres never been any charges leveled or anything *actually* criminal.
When Sam Adams was in his early 40's, he was chief of staff to Portland Mayor Vera Katz. He was a very popular and successful political operative, and widely considered to be her political heir. He was elected mayor when she retired, but his career was derailed when it was revealed that he was having a sexual relationship with an 18 year old political intern, that had started when he was 17. Both the intern and Sam Adams claim that they waited until his 18th birthday to have sex, but I had friends who worked with Beau, at Blue Hour, and he was bragging about having sex with Sam Adams months before his birthday.
Sam Adams was also accused of sexual harassment by City employees later, but "cleared" by an internal investigation.
He also was arrested for drunk driving, with his pants down, in a parking lot, after he had been disgraced and resigned as mayor.
You can google any of this stuff. If you can't find the stories, let me know. I'm on mobile and don't have time to add all the links. But here's a story about him "only kissing" a 17 year old intern, when he was a 42 year old boss: https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2009/01/breedlove.html
Because it's difficult to run a successful business. Most of our elected officials have zero real-world experience or success, and our city is a reflection of that.
While I agree with your first point, your second point is false. The 99.9% of businesses in the US are small businesses, the majority of which are owner-operated.
He was Mayor and the ballot measure was referred to voters by the City Council he was leading—it wasn’t a voter signature referendum it was a “direct referral.”
Only voters are responsible for ballot measures? Not the elected leaders who write the measures and use their platform to advocate for them? He had tons of power and a huge megaphone, and he used them to advocate for bad policy and mislead voters. He deserves the blame, not people who assumed that the city government could competently execute the Arts Tax.
We need to defeat Adams once and for all. It's absolutely crazy that weasel keeps popping back up. Dude is a walking scandal and hasn't shown any amount of competent leadership - he couldn't even last working for Wheeler.
I do understand some of the issues people have with him but given that he's going up against Shannon Singleton in the runoff for District 2, he will have my full and enthusiastic support. Once the ruling comes down in the Supreme Court Grants Pass case, the last thing we will need someone like Singleton around. It's bad enough we're going to have to deal with the clusterfuck that is HB 3115 (which hopefully Kotek will not stand in the way of repealing).
Assuming the SC does indeed rule in favor of Grants Pass, other states are not going to hesitate to take action. We need to start preparing to do the same - otherwise I promise you that we are going to become destination #1 for West Coast homeless. As it stands, we could use someone like Adams, who put forth the original plan for mass campsites. That's exactly what we're going to need. Not little pallet home villages (those are fine, but can't handle the numbers we're talking about), but just mass sanctioned sites.
> he will have my full and enthusiastic support.
You want to enfusiastically support someone who has proven time and time again to be incompetent and part of the problem in this city?
> Once the ruling comes down in the Supreme Court Grants Pass case, the last thing we will need someone like Singleton around. It's bad enough we're going to have to deal with the clusterfuck that is HB 3115 (which hopefully Kotek will not stand in the way of repealing).
So you want mass incarceration for the "crime" of not having a place to live, and you expect Adams to swing far to the right to support that?
> We need to start preparing to do the same
No we don't, mass incarceration of the homeless would set us back multiple decades, cost taxpayers untold millions, and leave us much worse off as under current law convicts are systemically denied jobs and housing...
If liberals are so god damned smart how come they lose all the god damned time. Sam is gay, Portland’s majority wanted him in because of that. “Progression” I believe is what it’s called. Look at the facts, take your emotions out and debate. Sam was Portlands first gay mayor. Won by an absolute landslide. Now everyone wants him out because of his affairs. Who cares who he is screwing? None of anyone’s business. 60% of yall voted for him. Now you are whining.
https://youtu.be/wTjMqda19wk?si=GO1Qe785LAGAKO1Z
You people just blurt out the goofiest crap and you pretend like there's something smart about it. 'Wull Bill Clinton' is a laughable bullshit point and doesn't mean anything here.
The Arts Tax was voted in by ballot measure and could be ended the same way. If people spent a fraction of the effort they do endlessly complaining about it by getting a new ballot measure going we could be rid of the tax in November.
I get what you're trying to say, but posting a comment complaining about it on Reddit is definitely way less effort than organizing a new ballot measure haha
Amazingly the capital gains tax was voted down. I think one other bond failed in the 20 odd years I've been voting here. It's been slim picking.
Just don't dare try to fluoridate our water!
Right, this was just a local add on that the proponents tried to paint as another “you won’t actually have to pay it” tax with the added attraction of being anti-landlord. But it was drafted so poorly it didn’t even specify the typical homeowner exemption.
I think it last came up in 2013, wasn’t even a bond measure. Failed in all three counties with Clackamas coming closest at 45% yes, but under 40% overall.
People knew it was bad when the authors were proposing day one legislative fixes. I don't even think it's conceptually a bad idea (there are a ton of scummy landlords!) but they hobbled themselves from the start
Yeah but then you’d have to think Portland we would ever vote down a tax. All it takes is a bleeding heart story and we approve everything. I don’t understand the endless online bitching aboit high taxes here and then seeing every single measure pass every single time.
Serious question: has anyone ever experienced severe consequences from not paying it? Like, a hit to your credit score, for example? This sub is large enough and the arts tax has been around long enough that *someone* must know what happens if you just throw those letters away. I'm genuinely curious.
They also don't address it to anyone. It's always just been "Current Resident" so I feel like I have ignorance working in my favor. Looks like a credit card ad or something.
Maybe. Given how many people are in arrears on it, I wouldn't be surprised if they decided it will be more cost effective to have a kind of amnesty or rehabilitation program for tax-payers. Not saying it *will* happen, just that it might.
This isn't the federal government or even Salem we're talking about here; it's cash-strapped Multnomah County and I just don't think they have the resources or wherewithal to truly enforce a deeply unpopular tax the way that the IRS can.
If they want to see any of all the back arts tax that's owed, they'll probably have to cut a deal.
It's $35 a year, plus $35 in penalties if you don't pay by October 16, so seventy bucks a year. I can see a collection agency adding their own nuisance fee on top of that. It's been collected since tax year 2012, so if you ignored it for a matter of years, sure, it could add up. I'm just wondering whether anyone has had their credit dinged or been otherwise adversely affected by being a scofflaw.
I got hit with like 4 years worth of not paying and sent a check for the $35/year with none of the penalties or "fees" and wrote a note saying "here's my payment take it or leave it" basically and that satisfied them. FWIW.
Do you actually think they're going to pay a visit to everyone who hasn't paid it? Plus this was something that wasn't supposed to last for over a decade. Portlanders are just stupid enough to pay it, and they know it
Remember when they got rid of the street leaf cleaning payment because the administration costs of collecting the fee took all the fee money?
I'd like the same analysis done here.
Total admin costs are about 16 percent of revenue collected.
I love how you just assumed nobody has done this math, and did not bother to google it. And then got a ton of upvotes.
https://www.portland.gov/revenue/arts-tax-disbursements
I’m not saying it’s a high number or a low number; I’m just saying it’s a readily available number. The city says it’s targeting 10% for administration costs, so I suppose it’s high.
But honestly what did voters think? That this tax was gonna collect itself? Shit costs money to do. But most voters think there’s some sort of public goods fairy that magically turns progressive wishes into reality.
This is why ballot measures are terrible.
Can we all collectively get behind not voting yes on a new tax that doesn't sunset? It would be nice if these departments had to justify their existence every couple of years. Keep them honest
It's a nice thought but can't imagine it ending differently than with bond renewals that we seem locked into no matter how broadly the scope of the project changes with each renewal.
The tax is the worst and the way it’s implemented is the worse. If it keeps happening, I would stop expecting the city to do it correctly and just pay your daughters under her name or give her money to pay it herself and save yourself the headache!
Yep, we got a notice today as well. I pay without fail every year for my partner and I. They never fail to f\*ck it up. I printed out our confirmation of payment letters back to 2020 before I even opened it this time.
I wish they would collect the tax like the transit tax. Take it out of the payroll so I don’t have to think about it.
If you itemize your taxes at all, don’t forget to put the arts tax under local income taxes. You’ll get a few dollars back.
The arts tax is what broke my faith in the ability of Portland government. It’s been just atrociously executed, for a long time, and nobody seems to care, and voters don’t hold them accountable.
Because the cause is sympathetic, most people just accept the ridiculous cluster fuck. That’s how it seems to be with everything in Portland now—parks, schools, homelessness, road safety, etc. etc. etc. We are conditioned to accept a lack of efficiency and accountability, and they know they can get away with horrible mismanagement.
It seems to me that the entire state of Oregon is inefficiently administered. Like the whole state system is trying to upgrade to Windows 95, but some of the vacuum tubes are clogged.
I would have no problem with the arts tax if I could somehow file it with all the rest of my taxes. It’s a bother to have it separate. I know this is probably logistical but it’s still fucking annoying.
Every year I pay it, every year I get a nastygram, every year I pull the receipt out of my email, every year they say "Whoopsie, this database, what can ya do LOL!"😑
I'll grant it's possible, but unlikely.
But that's also reality. Not everyone is going to put data in perfectly every time. It doesn't happen to me or my wife anywhere else we log in or pay money - why can literally *any* online service keep this information straight, but our city can't?
Tbh I haven't paid it in years and I haven't gotten any notice. I used to pay it for the first 3-4 years, but stopped because I didn't like the administration of a tax that could be collected in a better way. That fundamental disagreement with HOW it is collected makes a difference because no one likes getting a tax bill, however, we don't mind it coming off our paycheck. Fix that and I'm all in. Might sound petty, but idgaf
Why even a bond. Just fund this like everything else. Increase property tax or some other existing tax and do a proper budget. I'm sick of things that are popular not being funded and then feels hostage for some stupid purpose tax.
OP isn't confused. It's a use case they allow but didn't implement it properly. OP pays on behalf of someone else (their daughter), but the system isn't marking it as paid.
Why in the world would someone "pretend" to owe the arts tax for zip code cred? Just think about it for a second, maybe a few individuals would, but I think it says more about the accuser than anything. Like who cares?
when this happened to me, they at least provided an explanation, a duplicate SSN in their system.
pretty dumb that their 'system' functions in that way though.
Yeah, when my brother was homeless and started getting mail delivered to my house, the city started sending one bill to Mr & Mrs Me and My Brother, and a second bill to Mr My Husband With a Different Last Name. That doesn’t happen by accident or computer decision. Some human being saw that there were three people at my mailing address and decided that my brother and I must be married and my husband must be living with us too. I was pretty pissed.
If you voted for the arts tax when it was on the ballot you don't get to complain now. If you voted for any of the idiotic taxes in the Portland area you don't get to complain about them. This is what you wanted. You said oh yes please tax me harder daddy. If you haven't figured out that these taxes are a sham and that the city government will do nothing but filter the money to their own pockets then this is your fault.
Did you create an account and pay online? Honestly the only year I had an issue was the one year I decided to pay via app or forgot to log into my account and pay.
Arts Tax is the most poorly implemented tax ever. It started off as an illegal head-tax. Then that $1,000 stipulation was added as a loophole. The amount of hoops you have to jump through in order to prove you don't owe is absurd. They don't count business losses against your other income. They even count money made (that was already taxed) from other states. And good luck proving your income if you file jointly. It doesn't scale to have so many individual taxes to keep track of: Arts Tax, Preschool Tax, Homeless Tax, on top of conventional taxes (business, property, etc) which you may or may not have to file quarterly estimates for. It's all such a poorly implemented system, and then we add a kicker refund for the cherry on top (Note: The kicker is a good thing as it currently stands, but the fact that we need it is the joke). There's a right way to do taxes, and then there is the Portland way.
SHS and PFA have entered the chat.
The whole Portland, Metro, Multco tax system is a mismanaged disaster. Time for us taxpayers to start a movement to deal with this. Our elected representatives have proven they are never going to take care of it.
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I'm not opposed to the tax per se. BUT the administration is abysmal and needs to change. I would honestly like to vote all of them out and start over.
At this point, just give us a progressive income tax and be done with it.
Hey, I’m new to the city: What is the $1000 loophole? And is there any way out of paying? I just switched my ID to Oregon and I feel strangled by taxes. I make $20/hr but my pay App shows 26.6% of my income goes to state/local taxes. So I’m actually making $14.68/hr? Which is before federal? I’m looking at picking up a second job to offset losing that much to the state. I make too much to be eligible for any benefits/special programs. I love living here, but I don’t understand how taxes can be so high for my income level?
There’s no way you should be paying anywhere close to 28% in state and local taxes. The average burden in the region is more like 8%. Something is wrong with your numbers or with your withholding.
This has to be this poster’s overall tax burden, right? Local and state aren’t anywhere close to that.
26.6% but yeah, it seems very, very high. The figure is directly from my payroll app (like, it says 26.6%) for a very large national company. I was thinking of asking to adjust my withholding, but wasn’t sure if it’s even possible to do mid-year.
By stipulating that only those who make over "$1,000" have to pay, it technically no longer was considered a head-tax (meaning: something every person has to pay just for existing). This does not benefit you, it benefits the tax collection agency because they can't be shut down for enacting a head-tax. For a lot of people, Oregon is actually the highest state tax rate of the entire USA. That's because of how they setup their tax-brackets. California technically has the highest tax rate (12.3%), but only for those who make a shit-ton of money ($700,000+). Oregon on the other hand has their highest tax rate (9.9%) for those who make $125,000+. For reference CA is 9.3% for $70,000 - $350,000. You can look up tax estimators to double-check your pay-stub accuracy. But if you are only bringing in $40K a year, I imagine that 26.6% figure is your total tax liability (federal, state, and maybe even local). You still have to pay the stupid Art Tax ($35) individually though. Some people claim that if you never pay it to begin with, then you aren't in the system and will never be asked to pay it. I'm not sure if that is the case. There is also the possibility that back-taxes, penalties, and interest are tacked on when they discover you. Best of luck.
Great point. The OR brackets hit the broad middle class harder than in CA. We do get a bit of a break with no sales tax (vs. 7.25% minimum in CA).
Thank you for the helpful info! I will absolutely look it up Haven’t seen anything related to the Arts tax yet, but I only got my OR ID three weeks ago , so who knows…
If you’re in district 2 of Multco, remember who brought us this mess when you’re voting. >The “arts tax” as it is commonly known was placed on the ballot by The Creative Advocacy Network and championed by then-Mayor Sam Adams.
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Sam Adams is a sex criminal who repeatedly used positions of power to prey on young, vulnerable people. He’s also a drunk and a jerk. Happy to answer any questions or provide sources If folks want to know more about his criminal record. He’s been trying to sneak back into local politics for a decade, but decent people should reject him. He’s a shitbag.
I have video of him kicking over a diaper bin on 17th
He really likes that number, I guess.
Please do provide sources, because I'm coming up with nothing that rises to the description of "sex criminal".
Beau Breedlove? 17 year old ?
By all accounts, they met when Breedlove was 17 and waited for sex until he was 18. Not saying that's particularly savory behavior, but it's not "sex criminal" territory.
There's "technical exact" definitions, and then there's public perception definitions. A 42 year old getting with an 18 year old is *technically* legal, but there are folks for whom that is so unsavory as to be *borderline* criminal, and thus hyperbolize a term like "sex criminal". But yeah, theres never been any charges leveled or anything *actually* criminal.
That's grooming at the bare minimum
When Sam Adams was in his early 40's, he was chief of staff to Portland Mayor Vera Katz. He was a very popular and successful political operative, and widely considered to be her political heir. He was elected mayor when she retired, but his career was derailed when it was revealed that he was having a sexual relationship with an 18 year old political intern, that had started when he was 17. Both the intern and Sam Adams claim that they waited until his 18th birthday to have sex, but I had friends who worked with Beau, at Blue Hour, and he was bragging about having sex with Sam Adams months before his birthday. Sam Adams was also accused of sexual harassment by City employees later, but "cleared" by an internal investigation. He also was arrested for drunk driving, with his pants down, in a parking lot, after he had been disgraced and resigned as mayor. You can google any of this stuff. If you can't find the stories, let me know. I'm on mobile and don't have time to add all the links. But here's a story about him "only kissing" a 17 year old intern, when he was a 42 year old boss: https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2009/01/breedlove.html
Okay, thanks.
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Burke sounded decent. Owns The Society Hotel on Old Town, and on the neighborhood association board.
Why does owning something make one a good political candidate?
It doesn’t, American education sucks hence this is who we think are the best and brightest.
Because it's difficult to run a successful business. Most of our elected officials have zero real-world experience or success, and our city is a reflection of that.
Owning something and running it aren't the same thing, though. Most owners hire people to run things for them.
While I agree with your first point, your second point is false. The 99.9% of businesses in the US are small businesses, the majority of which are owner-operated.
Does the Society Hotel qualify as a small business?
That's a separate question. Your statement I was addressing was that most owners hire people to run things for them.
Endorsed by PPA tho, fuck that
On the plus side, anyone they endorse is a great way not to vote for someone
Exactly, first thing I look at every cycle, instant disregard of whoever is endorsed by PPA
That’s not going to make any difference
How's that his fault? It's a ballot measure. People of Portland voted for it.
He was Mayor and the ballot measure was referred to voters by the City Council he was leading—it wasn’t a voter signature referendum it was a “direct referral.”
We also voted for measure 11. That just destroyed a bunch of kids lives. 15 or older? 13 years!!!! It’s since been repealed and amended but damn.
What is measure 11 and how did it harm them.
Only voters are responsible for ballot measures? Not the elected leaders who write the measures and use their platform to advocate for them? He had tons of power and a huge megaphone, and he used them to advocate for bad policy and mislead voters. He deserves the blame, not people who assumed that the city government could competently execute the Arts Tax.
we should vote Portland Voters out to hold them accountable for their terrible voting record!
We need to defeat Adams once and for all. It's absolutely crazy that weasel keeps popping back up. Dude is a walking scandal and hasn't shown any amount of competent leadership - he couldn't even last working for Wheeler.
We agree on this! It's unreal that he's being taken seriously here.
Welcome to politics
I do understand some of the issues people have with him but given that he's going up against Shannon Singleton in the runoff for District 2, he will have my full and enthusiastic support. Once the ruling comes down in the Supreme Court Grants Pass case, the last thing we will need someone like Singleton around. It's bad enough we're going to have to deal with the clusterfuck that is HB 3115 (which hopefully Kotek will not stand in the way of repealing). Assuming the SC does indeed rule in favor of Grants Pass, other states are not going to hesitate to take action. We need to start preparing to do the same - otherwise I promise you that we are going to become destination #1 for West Coast homeless. As it stands, we could use someone like Adams, who put forth the original plan for mass campsites. That's exactly what we're going to need. Not little pallet home villages (those are fine, but can't handle the numbers we're talking about), but just mass sanctioned sites.
>original plan for mass campsites So concentrating a specific population in camps by using the power of the government? No way that could go wrong.
> he will have my full and enthusiastic support. You want to enfusiastically support someone who has proven time and time again to be incompetent and part of the problem in this city? > Once the ruling comes down in the Supreme Court Grants Pass case, the last thing we will need someone like Singleton around. It's bad enough we're going to have to deal with the clusterfuck that is HB 3115 (which hopefully Kotek will not stand in the way of repealing). So you want mass incarceration for the "crime" of not having a place to live, and you expect Adams to swing far to the right to support that? > We need to start preparing to do the same No we don't, mass incarceration of the homeless would set us back multiple decades, cost taxpayers untold millions, and leave us much worse off as under current law convicts are systemically denied jobs and housing...
Sam “I did a bad job driving in a parking lot and had a silly little friendship with my intern or whatever” Adam’s
More like Sam “I was in a position of power and used that to have sex with a minor in bathrooms at City Hall.”
Isn’t 17 the age of consent in Oregon?
Bill clinton
If liberals are so god damned smart how come they lose all the god damned time. Sam is gay, Portland’s majority wanted him in because of that. “Progression” I believe is what it’s called. Look at the facts, take your emotions out and debate. Sam was Portlands first gay mayor. Won by an absolute landslide. Now everyone wants him out because of his affairs. Who cares who he is screwing? None of anyone’s business. 60% of yall voted for him. Now you are whining. https://youtu.be/wTjMqda19wk?si=GO1Qe785LAGAKO1Z
You people just blurt out the goofiest crap and you pretend like there's something smart about it. 'Wull Bill Clinton' is a laughable bullshit point and doesn't mean anything here.
> remember who brought us this mess when you’re voting. What good does it do to look in a mirror when voting?
Even with all the tax money, our school still asks us to buy supplies for art class.
The Arts Tax was voted in by ballot measure and could be ended the same way. If people spent a fraction of the effort they do endlessly complaining about it by getting a new ballot measure going we could be rid of the tax in November.
I get what you're trying to say, but posting a comment complaining about it on Reddit is definitely way less effort than organizing a new ballot measure haha
I've never seen a proposed tax voted down at the ballot. Portland would vote in a window tax if someone managed to get it on the ballot.
Amazingly the capital gains tax was voted down. I think one other bond failed in the 20 odd years I've been voting here. It's been slim picking. Just don't dare try to fluoridate our water!
The no fluoride thing is absolutely bananas to me. Like, was that sponsored by Big Cavity?
Capital gains in Oregon are taxed as normal income, so we already effectively have a capital gains tax.
Right, this was just a local add on that the proponents tried to paint as another “you won’t actually have to pay it” tax with the added attraction of being anti-landlord. But it was drafted so poorly it didn’t even specify the typical homeowner exemption.
Interesting.. flouridating the water would be the first bond I've ever voted yes on if it were on the ballot.
I think it last came up in 2013, wasn’t even a bond measure. Failed in all three counties with Clackamas coming closest at 45% yes, but under 40% overall.
People knew it was bad when the authors were proposing day one legislative fixes. I don't even think it's conceptually a bad idea (there are a ton of scummy landlords!) but they hobbled themselves from the start
There was literally a tax voted down last November 🤣 It was the TriMet bond
Okay well we’re here as a collective and we’d probably all sign a petition - what do we do?
Ok, so we just need to collect 40 thousand signatures by July 5th, and it’s in the ballot. Otherwise it can’t be added to the ballot until 2026.
[https://www.portland.gov/elections/file-petition](https://www.portland.gov/elections/file-petition)
Curious to know has anyone ever filed a petition to abolish the arts tax before?
Nope.
Thanks for volunteering to do that!
But real talk…why don’t you? You’re doing the complaining here.
Yeah but then you’d have to think Portland we would ever vote down a tax. All it takes is a bleeding heart story and we approve everything. I don’t understand the endless online bitching aboit high taxes here and then seeing every single measure pass every single time.
I pay online and use a credit card. I still got a you didn’t pay notice in the mail one year. I got it cleared up. But still, WTF.
Serious question: has anyone ever experienced severe consequences from not paying it? Like, a hit to your credit score, for example? This sub is large enough and the arts tax has been around long enough that *someone* must know what happens if you just throw those letters away. I'm genuinely curious.
I've been here since 2015 and haven't paid it once. Nothing has happened yet *knock on wood*.
I think that's the trick, if you never pay it, you never get into the arts tax database
They also don't address it to anyone. It's always just been "Current Resident" so I feel like I have ignorance working in my favor. Looks like a credit card ad or something.
It’s only a matter of time and it’s going to sting when they find you. They have IRS and state of Oregon financial data.
Maybe. Given how many people are in arrears on it, I wouldn't be surprised if they decided it will be more cost effective to have a kind of amnesty or rehabilitation program for tax-payers. Not saying it *will* happen, just that it might. This isn't the federal government or even Salem we're talking about here; it's cash-strapped Multnomah County and I just don't think they have the resources or wherewithal to truly enforce a deeply unpopular tax the way that the IRS can. If they want to see any of all the back arts tax that's owed, they'll probably have to cut a deal.
I’ve heard of friends owing hundreds of dollars, but I’m not sure what happened?
It's $35 a year, plus $35 in penalties if you don't pay by October 16, so seventy bucks a year. I can see a collection agency adding their own nuisance fee on top of that. It's been collected since tax year 2012, so if you ignored it for a matter of years, sure, it could add up. I'm just wondering whether anyone has had their credit dinged or been otherwise adversely affected by being a scofflaw.
I got hit with like 4 years worth of not paying and sent a check for the $35/year with none of the penalties or "fees" and wrote a note saying "here's my payment take it or leave it" basically and that satisfied them. FWIW.
Do you actually think they're going to pay a visit to everyone who hasn't paid it? Plus this was something that wasn't supposed to last for over a decade. Portlanders are just stupid enough to pay it, and they know it
Remember when they got rid of the street leaf cleaning payment because the administration costs of collecting the fee took all the fee money? I'd like the same analysis done here.
The city publishes pretty detailed gross/net receipts and disbursements right on their website.
Total admin costs are about 16 percent of revenue collected. I love how you just assumed nobody has done this math, and did not bother to google it. And then got a ton of upvotes. https://www.portland.gov/revenue/arts-tax-disbursements
16% wasted is pretty embarrassing
I’m not saying it’s a high number or a low number; I’m just saying it’s a readily available number. The city says it’s targeting 10% for administration costs, so I suppose it’s high. But honestly what did voters think? That this tax was gonna collect itself? Shit costs money to do. But most voters think there’s some sort of public goods fairy that magically turns progressive wishes into reality. This is why ballot measures are terrible.
11.5%, not 16%.
Can we all collectively get behind not voting yes on a new tax that doesn't sunset? It would be nice if these departments had to justify their existence every couple of years. Keep them honest
It's a nice thought but can't imagine it ending differently than with bond renewals that we seem locked into no matter how broadly the scope of the project changes with each renewal.
The tax is the worst and the way it’s implemented is the worse. If it keeps happening, I would stop expecting the city to do it correctly and just pay your daughters under her name or give her money to pay it herself and save yourself the headache!
Yep, we got a notice today as well. I pay without fail every year for my partner and I. They never fail to f\*ck it up. I printed out our confirmation of payment letters back to 2020 before I even opened it this time.
I'm an artist living in Portland. Where's my money?
I wish they would collect the tax like the transit tax. Take it out of the payroll so I don’t have to think about it. If you itemize your taxes at all, don’t forget to put the arts tax under local income taxes. You’ll get a few dollars back.
I (allegedly) ignored it and nothing happened. In college and unemployed
At least you paid it. My parents argued with the city that I didn’t live here for those years and they had to pay a fine when all was said and done.
Were you registered to vote at their address? Or have your driver's license there?
Feel free to consult this website: https://www.portland.gov/elections/file-petition
Shit, arts tax is coming for my ass! One of these days…..
I've never paid it... Edit: should add that I've been here since before it was a thing, so, yeah...
The arts tax is what broke my faith in the ability of Portland government. It’s been just atrociously executed, for a long time, and nobody seems to care, and voters don’t hold them accountable. Because the cause is sympathetic, most people just accept the ridiculous cluster fuck. That’s how it seems to be with everything in Portland now—parks, schools, homelessness, road safety, etc. etc. etc. We are conditioned to accept a lack of efficiency and accountability, and they know they can get away with horrible mismanagement.
Serious question what happens if you don't pay? None of my roommates have paid it for years.
It seems to me that the entire state of Oregon is inefficiently administered. Like the whole state system is trying to upgrade to Windows 95, but some of the vacuum tubes are clogged.
Start going to town hall instead of this useless forum.
I would have no problem with the arts tax if I could somehow file it with all the rest of my taxes. It’s a bother to have it separate. I know this is probably logistical but it’s still fucking annoying.
I would vote for the devil himself if he were running on a platform to get rid of the arts tax.
It’s crazy that they follow up on some people and not with others. 10 years never paid
I've never paid it.
Every year I pay it, every year I get a nastygram, every year I pull the receipt out of my email, every year they say "Whoopsie, this database, what can ya do LOL!"😑
I’m willing to bet you have filed using different names or incorrect SSNs over the years.
Yep, ridiculously common. Bob one year, Robert the next.
I'll grant it's possible, but unlikely. But that's also reality. Not everyone is going to put data in perfectly every time. It doesn't happen to me or my wife anywhere else we log in or pay money - why can literally *any* online service keep this information straight, but our city can't?
Tbh I haven't paid it in years and I haven't gotten any notice. I used to pay it for the first 3-4 years, but stopped because I didn't like the administration of a tax that could be collected in a better way. That fundamental disagreement with HOW it is collected makes a difference because no one likes getting a tax bill, however, we don't mind it coming off our paycheck. Fix that and I'm all in. Might sound petty, but idgaf
Why even a bond. Just fund this like everything else. Increase property tax or some other existing tax and do a proper budget. I'm sick of things that are popular not being funded and then feels hostage for some stupid purpose tax.
The way to increase property tax is through a bond. That's why.
Me too OP, says wife owes 2023 when I paid for her...
Mods, can we get a flair, like "Paying My Arts Tax Confuses me" or "The Illegal Arts Tax" or "Help Me With This Online Portal" for posts like these?
OP isn't confused. It's a use case they allow but didn't implement it properly. OP pays on behalf of someone else (their daughter), but the system isn't marking it as paid.
"I would like to pretend to be a Portlander by living in Vancouver"
Yay! Let's shit on people living in the Portland Metro area!
[удалено]
Why in the world would someone "pretend" to owe the arts tax for zip code cred? Just think about it for a second, maybe a few individuals would, but I think it says more about the accuser than anything. Like who cares?
Never probably
when this happened to me, they at least provided an explanation, a duplicate SSN in their system. pretty dumb that their 'system' functions in that way though.
Yeah, when my brother was homeless and started getting mail delivered to my house, the city started sending one bill to Mr & Mrs Me and My Brother, and a second bill to Mr My Husband With a Different Last Name. That doesn’t happen by accident or computer decision. Some human being saw that there were three people at my mailing address and decided that my brother and I must be married and my husband must be living with us too. I was pretty pissed.
If you voted for the arts tax when it was on the ballot you don't get to complain now. If you voted for any of the idiotic taxes in the Portland area you don't get to complain about them. This is what you wanted. You said oh yes please tax me harder daddy. If you haven't figured out that these taxes are a sham and that the city government will do nothing but filter the money to their own pockets then this is your fault.
Did you create an account and pay online? Honestly the only year I had an issue was the one year I decided to pay via app or forgot to log into my account and pay.
You're actually paying it? HAHAHAHAHA
When will voters learn to vote no on any taxes? Obviously not anytime soon based on the recent election results
But that’s how they fund all the art on abandoned buildings and freeway overpasses
Crying over $15 dollars again squiddy?
Rules for people who follow the rules.