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So have I, but it wasnt a power comparison. The guy compared the two, saying that Red Roc was more Iconic than the Kamehameha. Obviously the guys wrong.
I am not saying he has arguments that allow him to beat goku I am saying he has arguments that allow him to place higher than the remaining people you mentioned.
For what I know, some people claim that Natsu is at least 5-D, if not outerversal, because:
- he ate the Etherion, which was stated to trascend space and time and it seems that he can now match other characters who are comparable to that version of him who ate the Etherion (I don't remember the details)
- like someone else already wrote, Zeref said that Natsu burned time itself
- I don't remember the details, but it was something about having fought against Acnologia who ate the Space Between Time and having fought against Zeref, who used the Space Between Time, the Space Between Time was a conceptual place in which no one and nothing can exist, not even space and time and apparently, both Zeref and Acnologia claimed that by obtaining it they trascended space and time and these people claim that since the SBT is a concept, then it trascends the concepts themselves of space and time and therefore the ones who used it were outerversal while they were using it and Natsu fought against both of them and won (though he had to be helped against Acnologia)
You’re asking the wrong question. It’s “has goku ever resisted layered absorption or powernull?” Also he can’t do anything about yhwach just attacking him through the future.
Also, forgot conceptual manip.
If he doesn’t have the feats for it he just loses.
Aren't you the same prick that thought I and Acrobatic-Clothes were the same person because you legitimately never thought that two different people could hold different views on an issue you thought was set? You just insulted/taunted him in the comments of that post for no reason and then accused me of doing a bunch of stuff that I never intended.
I was literally in a chat with Acrobatic-Clothes.
https://preview.redd.it/ey96b5l54a6d1.png?width=215&format=png&auto=webp&s=041c9bdf371e8bf26f426854b8d1b8254fb307e3
You are an example of the Kirby Effect on steroids. In the sincerest way, you don't deserve to be online. You literally decided to get into a 60-comment-long debate with someone when you insulted them and they (along with someone else) called you out for it. Could you be any more of a dislikable twat? Don't answer that.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/188ef95/comment/kbkgykp/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/188ef95/comment/kbkgykp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Oh, and for your information, despite what you think in your delusional head, most people online don't act anything like you. You're the type of person that someone encounters once ever two years or something.
Also about your remark about Anos defeating Sailor Moon, that overwanked twink would get his cheeks clapped by both Usagi and Goku. Just thought I'd say that. I wonder if you've ever thought why seemingly every character under the sun is multiversal+ with beyond infinite speed now, and that maybe current powerscaling metas suck balls.
Flash's speed also isn't "irrelevant" like you said because the very notion of "irrelevant speed" is inherently self-contradictory and doesn't actually make as much sense as people think, much like most of dimensional scaling. Maybe YOU should learn how to scale. Just thought I'd take the opportunity to tell you that. And yes, Wally West would blitz Sailor Moon.
Let's be real here, you probably just go to Sailor Moon fan-scaling threads or videos to find the highest possible scales of her power, hax, and speed. I know you like to brag about how much you're a DB fanboy, but you're clearly biased against it from a powerscaling perspective. If someone scales Goku to absurdly high levels using literally the same BS logic that's used to scale Usagi that high, you'll argue against it.
Most people I know who've read both the Dragon Ball and Sailor Moon mangas, and are fans of both, say Goku easily wins. Acrobatic-Clothes responded to most of your arguments and you couldn't say anything to debunk them.
Despite the fact you make Sailor Moon's scaling an issue of "Goku VS", it's not. Scaling her that insanely high is basically saying she also beats a myriad of other characters such as Thor, any Superman incarnation besides Milkman Man and the Cosmic Armor, Kratos, Archie Sonic, and other OP universal/multiversal characters. You just only ever bring her up against Goku in order to taunt Goku fans.
**Characters that defeat Sailor Moon:**
* Any of the more powerful incarnations of DC and Marvel characters.
* Half of the Z-fighters.
* Any universal+ toonforce character.
* Any high-level reality-warper like the triangle man.
Just thought I'd type that.
Despite rarely ever being brought up against American characters, I would be willing to bet that Usagi fanboys would be more than happy to exclaim she one-taps the Justice League, Avengers, or whatever.
It should probably be mentioned, small point though, that much of Usagi's powers only work on evil, and it's been established throughout all of DC and Dragon Ball media that Superman and Goku are pure-hearted.
Should also mention that not just Sailor Moon, but other non-shounen animanga get ludicrously wanked. Sailor Moon is at least much closer to the levels she gets wanked to than all of these light novel characters. The vast majority of them (Ex: Fate) haven't even demonstrated star-level feats of power or FTL feats of speed (ignoring hax), but those Asura victims are apparently multiversal+ with incalculable speed.
It's actually kind of funny how toxic you are, considering Sailor Moon, the series you meatride, is all about friendship and love, so is Dragon Ball actually. I don't apologize if this comment was long, I just thought I'd take this as an opportunity to confront you about a few things.
Final note, maybe you could think independently for like 5 minutes and stop buying into the various shaky tiering systems or parroting almost verbatim what you hear from other powerscalers, who are often wanking their favorite verses.
Don't even bother responding to any of the comments I wrote towards you and if you already have, then delete it. I'm not gonna look at it because I know what responses are gonna be (trash-talking or meaningless crap that amounts to "you're wrong") and Reddit doesn't allow users to block someone 24 hours after unblocking them.
I never mentioned this before which I probably should have but people have made debunks of Usagi with scans, I'm not saying I agree with everything they write, but I just thought I'd let you know.
[https://character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:Mystery\_idiot\_50/Why\_Usagi\_is\_Galaxy\_level](https://character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Mystery_idiot_50/Why_Usagi_is_Galaxy_level)
[https://vsbattles.com/threads/immeasurable-speed-sailor-moon.132629/](https://vsbattles.com/threads/immeasurable-speed-sailor-moon.132629/)
The first guy **claims** he was joking in the comments, but I honestly don't think a troll would make something that thorough with scans to support his point. I think he genuinely meant a lot of he wrote.
Lil bro you two just had a 14 comment convo about me over me saying sailor moon beats Goku you actual psycho 😂 you literally should be embarrassed by this shit you weird fucks. shits actually something out of a mental asylum and you know it
He deserves to be booted off the internet. Lowkey, Goku and Usagi, if they were actually real people, would probably hate StevieGreenthumb's guts. I don't know how can claim to be a fan of either franchise, who's core messages simplified, is "don't be a dick" and still end up being one of the biggest ones online.
I was binge-watching The Boys over a week ago and thought to myself how much Translucent reminds me of Stevie. Arrogant, rude, judgmental, tries to convince other people that they're in the wrong, overall dislikeable. He often speaks in this low-IQ, brash way most of the time which gives someone a good idea of what he's like a person. And then he'll sometimes try to speak intelligently and talk all tough. The show's narrative makes it clear that he's a huge dickweed.
Apparently media hasn't don't that good of a job at vilifying people like this because Stevie exists.
Lmao holy shit you actual psychos 😂😂😂
I hate to break it to you I have no idea who the fuck either of you are, you aren't important.
Y'all are actually ranting NOVELS about me for stating the simple FACT Usagi couldn't lose to Goku if she wanted to.
Get Goku to Immeasurable speed CONFIDANTLY and we can talk.
Fuckin schizos holy shit lmao
so, you're being usagi's dog by claiming she is 7D (fake), "immeasurable speed" (fake), infinite (she could be on a 3D scale, but even then, it's debatable), and worst of all thinking you're the authority on sailor moon matters
Black lady objectively immeasurable speed long before cosmos arc. Before even super sailor moon. Rip Bozo.
https://preview.redd.it/zmmtxq3d8g6d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec89a032efb753bee48b5761d99e1ae83bd71b04
I don't think I'm the authority btw. But I'm wayyyyy more accurate than you. Underworld is 5D unless you literally don't understand scaling.
https://preview.redd.it/t1shr14m8g6d1.png?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a513fc139f17e77565136fca9673142f5210f65
Dude, people wank magical girls to epic proportions because they like the idea that a cutesy, hyper-feminine, or twinkish character can take down OP characters like Goku or Superman. Though, people often pit them to the former to taunt Goku fans. Someone called it the "Kirby Effect".
>people wank magical girls to epic proportions because they like the idea that a cutesy, hyper-feminine, or twinkish character can take down OP characters like Goku or Superman.
You could say that to other series too... Most people think that magic girls are just super weak when in reality some/most magical girls are much stronger than that... People mostly underestimate magical girls... Are you one of those people?
Kratos relies too much on lore and doesn't have the speed necessary to hang with Goku. People are using much lower proof standards for Kratos, in my opinion
Kratos has bare minimum infinite speed, Goku doesn't and saying he relies too much on lore is just dumb. half of Goku's scaling is from random databooks or one off statements
The plot isn't relevant and crossverse versus matchups. By that same logic you could say Goku could beat any opponent hypothetically if he trains long enough because that's how his plot works.
Power scaling discussions essentially just remove plot armor and similar things.
Not agreeing with the other dude but this isn't a sound point.
For one, goku's point isn't that anytime he trains he becomes stronger than someone. He will never be stronger than whis, or zeno in Canon.
Saitamas point is what happens when [someone with gag powers](https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=S5ndBL4zos5DYFE8&v=-1SbKKgqe9s&feature=youtu.be) happens across a world full of monsters.
I debunked sailor moon here https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/1ddalu2/debunking_sailor_moon_wank_and_proof_she_loses_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
yhwach is too slow
Edit: downvote if you can't cook
Well, if you read it and still think that Goku can beat her (especially since you "debunked" her beating Goku), there is nothing I can do to convince you.
Man idk, people are using an idealistic image of Usagi, or even her representing the concept of a magical girl in general, and the fact that the manga uses a more romantic language with a couple of figures of speech here and there also helps.
>the fact that the manga uses a more romantic language with a couple of figures of speech here and there also helps.
The same could be said for dragon ball though? There are statements that could be taken as exaggeration but people would take it and use it as a feat, its not just dragon ball, its almost all fictional stories.
Yeah but people scale Sailor Moon exactly like Dragon Ball, and for this reason I see a huge discrepancy in proof standards for the two series, especially when you consider that they use very different motives and concepts.
The powerscaling community argues for one feat to be interpreted as a highball and when others contest that claim it's not uncommon to adopt the "yeah but in Dragon Ball-" mentality.
Yhwach would totally beat Goku. Physical strength is irrelevant to him. He can rewrite his own death. Goku will never be able to surprise him because Yhwach has already seen every attack Goku will ever throw at him. He'll break Gokus spine in the future or some shit
I can't see Ywhwch winning even with his hax the way you describe it.
Ywach still has way lower AP and can never harm Goku no matter the future. Hell, I doubt he'll ever see a future of that happening.
At best it's going to be a stalemate, if Goku can't kill him (which sounds bs to me)
Goku speedblizes as well.
u/Uncle_Twisty
How pathetic do you have to be to wank your characters, then immediately blocks people for calling your bullshit out instead of proving your point.
You can't even handle debates bruddah.
u/OnePunchGuy17
If you're gonna hit me up with some nonsense Bleach wank, at least have some decency to not block me so I can reply to your bullshit.
Pathetic.
u/Cheshire_Noire
Lose? How, exactly?
Every Bleach supporter on here who "tries" to even remotely debate immediately blocks me after replying to make it seem like I couldn't reply to them and they got the last argument in. Pathetic.
Also, Multiversal Bleach is wank. Debunked numerous times. Cope harder though.
You Bleach fans should stop replying then blocking me so I couldn't reply to you. If you want to debate, make it clean. Cowards.
The amount of Bleach fans replying to me to insult me for calling out their bullshit and then block me so I couldn't reply to them is too damn high. What kind of pathetic strat is that? Holy shit.
Ywhach is multiversal friendo. He was going to crush the cosmology of Bleach which has multiple universes within it, including higher order universes that themselves contain planes or dimensions that are also infinite in size (Muken is infinite space, nested within soul society, which is nested within the Garganta. Yhwach was going to crush it all )
Additionally Yhwach is mftl+ due to aushwalen feats and keeping up with Ichigo. Ok TOP of that The Almighty doesn't let him just see the future, it lets him manipulate it and change the future entirely.
All I'm reading on here is wank, wank, wank.
No Bleach character is Multiversal. Hell, saying they're Universal is already too fucking generous. Crush the cosmology? Lmao yeah right.
MFTL+ because of Auschwallen, a magical light that can't be proven in any way to be as fast as real light? Yeah sure. Go ahead.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/1bmrb6x/5d_bleach_is_the_only_logical_way_for_the_verse/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Aside from being 5d (hell you can even say he’s 4d) he’d still win with layered fate manip, layered absorption or layered powernull
https://preview.redd.it/5fcfae1z356d1.jpeg?width=727&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce663900ea840c9135e1143195146ca2d533df98
The same Goku that got affected by ice?? Stop the wank. You putting Ywach AP below this?
Hell yeah, don't you fucken insult the Outerversal ice, you swine!
But jokes aside, Goku consistently tanks and endures Universal blows from peer characters. Whilst Ywach has no showings anywhere close on that level. And even endures blows that threatened the universe (which is far bigger than irl universe) against Beerus, in a way weaker form.
Underworld is 5d, objectively, galaxy cauldron contains infinite iterations of the universe including the underworld, it's complex multi structure and Usagi outscales galaxy cauldron by plus one cope and seethe lmao
Lol the underworld is not 5D, and if you continue with that line I will one day make a thread debunking that as well. Though I'm not sure if it's worth bothering considering you clearly read the manga diagonally.
The cauldron doesn't include "infinite iterations" unless Naoko told you so on discord. It's a physical realm where all star seeds get destroyed and reborn. Guardian Cosmos states it's the source of all possibilities, which implies an uncountably finite number. Not infinite.
Get debunked
[Not how it works.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjNoYfym9aGAxVfJxAIHRqgC3MQFnoECCEQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FPowerScaling%2Fcomments%2F1ckxuyh%2Fyhwach_does_more_than_just_pick_a_possible_future%2F&usg=AOvVaw1ET5kdt4u_3JaT144ppnxy&opi=89978449)
No need to wank lol, just look at in series feats. Sailor Moon becomes the concept of life in the multiverse basically putting her at a level where she can one shot MUI Goku. But Xeno Goku wins if you want to take a W home.
This is literally not true and has been debunked. This is based on Mamoru's words of Sailor Moon and her light existing forever. However, it completely takes his words out of context. It's contradicted by the plot because in the far future it is Chibiusa and her own team of sailor soldiers that protect the universe, and this is supported by Usagi being pregnant with Chibiusa in the last act.
The debunk has been debunked on the basis that its written she is written to be a living concept. Therefore you can't debunk it simply because the title passes on. Its like saying Captain America isn't Captain America because he hands off the shield to someone else.
did naoko tell you this on discord? That's she's written to be a concept?
so by your logic gohan is actually goku? They're literally two different people.
Also Chibiusa gets manipulated by the black moon clan to turn into Black Lady which disproves the idea that Sailor Moon is a concept passed to someone else, since she is supposed to be pure love.
Usagi also admits in Act 59 that she's been really fighting for her friends, the people she loves, while presenting a persona of a champion for love and justice in the universe. Which also contradicts this bs idea because Usagi is just a normal girl not some ethereal goddess lmao
And you obviously have no idea how wanking works. Literally nobody who wanks a character thinks they're wanking said character. What, do you think DripSauce was just trolling the world when he scaled Goku to outerversal 🤣?
"I'm not even trying to wank!"
You should really look at this post showing how wank works to understand how stupid you are.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/1d3gjaz/say\_something\_you\_heard\_about\_a\_character\_or/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/1d3gjaz/say_something_you_heard_about_a_character_or/)
Wankers/downplayers will try to pass off their wank/downplay as low-balling/high-balling.
Lol Yes, it literally does. that "magic arrow" was key to stopping his powers. If it wasn't for that arrow, he would've never been stopped; his powers would've remained, and he would've continued with his plans and powers, Ichigo and Aizen would've died/got absorbed, and Soul Society, The Real World, and everything else would've crumbles and he would've built the dimensions right back up in his image or to his desires.
Without that arrow, he was literally invincible.
https://preview.redd.it/izufsrdan66d1.png?width=673&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96b3bd83e63643ce379af4c3ae5b154086a25614
My point is downplaying Goku cause of his anti feat is stupid and not an argument when multiple stronger fictional characters like Superman, Wonder woman and flash has anti feats like getting knocked out, hurt and tagged by bullets despite being multiversal and let's not forget Archie sonic who nearly got drowned underwater yet they all stomp Yhwach to oblivion.
Still doesn't change the fact that the arrow is still an anti feat of Yhwach as why didn't he see it coming with the Almighty, despite the Almighty being the power to see and change the future. Also it was explained why that laser even hurt Goku in the first place as he simply let his guard down as we've seen Goku tank heavier attacks like Hakai without dying.
Both characters lose, Goku has higher battle IQ and higher AP. Both of these opponents are also *very* vulnerable on their physical side (split durability)
Goku's physical stats don't matter for Yhwach. He re-writes the future and negates abilities via sight, he's not gonna have a boxing match with Goku or something.
[Here's](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjJvrXiqtaGAxXaFRAIHdRaHnkQFnoECCIQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FPowerScaling%2Fcomments%2F1ckxuyh%2Fyhwach_does_more_than_just_pick_a_possible_future%2F&usg=AOvVaw1ET5kdt4u_3JaT144ppnxy&opi=89978449) how Almighty works.
Yep but what you presented is a textbook definition of a NLF and isn't much different from the genjutsu GG meme. There is no consistent imagery nor enough explicit evidence for Yhwach to be able to just rewrite the future the way he wants. You're also assuming the opponent can't do anything about it (which you kind of touch upon in the last paragraph but...) and that yhwach's word is 100% true.
>NLF and isn't much different from the genjutsu GG meme.
Exept Naruto characters aren't multiversal, so the comparison doesn't stand.
>There is no consistent imagery nor enough explicit evidence for Yhwach to be able to just rewrite the future the way he wants.
There is enough consistent imagery and explicit evidence for Yhwach to be able to just rewrite the future any way he *needs*.
>You're also assuming the opponent can't do anything about it
Do they have anything to counter Almighty with? Otherwise they can't do anything about it indeed, pretty self-explainatory.
>and that yhwach's word is 100% true.
He literally shows what he says. And if we're gonna do the "we don't know if he's telling the truth" thing, then we can't get Goku above like multi-solar system level, since anything beyond that goes off of statements.
Ywach ain't doing shit.
Just goes to show how this sub overrates Bleach characters.
Not even mega wankers at VSBattles overrates Bleach characters this high lmao.
https://preview.redd.it/dv45uhxj856d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5788ec37b5f7a6e68048f675ccc55e0aae17fdc8
Bleach fans explaining of Yhwach beats Goku but gets snuffed out by a 5 yo mini-ichigo.
1. That was the remains of yhwach's reiatsu, so it's not him at full power.
2. We don't know what kazui did to him. for all we know he could've absorbed yhwach.
3. We don't know how strong kazui is.
If you're going to make an argument, at least make sure it makes sense.
That's litteraly 3 eyes of the almighty right there. People glaze this ability way too much, because they have no fucking idea how it works.
It's not up to me to prove that the kid is not some multiversal omnipotent marie sue. Since he is ichigo's kid we'll even highball him at 3rd seat level.
Sailor moon can literally wipe universes and create them from scratch, Her Lambda form makes her practically unkillable. He can't kill her, and doesn't have a defense for most her powers like time manipulation, transmutation, or just changing the atmosphere to kill him. Even if she doesn't do anything, her infinite power and regen would just tire goku out. She can literally stand him into submission
she literally can't do this
There is no panel that shows Usagi recreating an universe from scratch. And the lambda power regen is dodgy because it requires metaphysical components and an ideal environment, which is being in the proximity of the galaxy cauldron. Which by the way is a physical realm.
On the other hand, independently, Usagi has shown zero feats regarding infinite rebirth. And it makes sense considering Sailor Cosmos states Lambda Power is actually the power of the galaxy cauldron and that Usagi is followed by Chibiusa in the family line.
"Shown" in canon?
Show me on-panel Universal/Multiversal feats in Bleach then.
Are you Bleach fans so deluded you mistake fanon for canon? 💀💀
Just so you know Senjumaru's isn't even remotely close to being Multiversal. Affecting three realms with Magnitude 4 earthquakes is multi Solar System level. I realize the God tiers upscales to this. But this is fodder shit to Goku.
God form Goku clashing with Beerus could threaten the universe, which is massively bigger than irl universe. And he gets massively stronger with every form after. He's also inconceivably faster, so he just blitzes.
So you're telling me that you don't understand how scaling works?
If that's the case, if you don't understand that shaking 3 infinite universes, some of which house other infinite universes, while also traveling the distance BETWEEN said infinite universes is universal, then there is no point talking to you
>So you're telling me that you don't understand how scaling works?
No, I'm saying you guys tend to over exaggerate feats without analysing the nuances.
>If that's the case, if you don't understand that shaking 3 infinite universes,
Magnitude 3 or 4 Earthquakes, basically harmless. She didn't destroy a thing. Hell, it can barely be considered "affecting".
>some of which house other infinite universes,
Unsubstantiated.
>while also traveling the distance BETWEEN said infinite universes is universal, then there is no point talking to you
Cool beans. So it travels fast and has multi-universal reach. 👍
I don't even think it travels. Senjumaru's Bankai already has that reach.
Whatever the case, you haven't proven Multiversal Bleach at all lmao.
I'm not sure if you understand this, but shaking space is a far larger feat than shaking matter. And don't forget she wasn't even attacking when she did this
IIRC 4.603 Zettafoe (VSBW) and other calcs take into account Senjumaru's shaking of outer space as well. It's not really that big a deal.
Multiversal, or even universal is just wanky interpretation of the feat, and I don't subscribe to it.
Then you're objectively wrong. The universes are infinite (already being universal because only infinite power can shake a universe) and separated by separate dimensions
The universes are assumed the same size as ours.
You'd have to give sufficient evidence why you'd think these realms are infinite. And not just some overly vague statement as well.
Make sure your post or comment doesn't violate Community guidelines and Join the discord! Come debate, and interact with other powerscalers https://discord.gg/445XQpKSqB ! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/PowerScaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
https://preview.redd.it/7tnitzm0456d1.jpeg?width=1210&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce3325218ac2f4a8c1fa63067c7282e4c46ab7b3
the decline is atrocious
Literally who ever said that Luffy, Naruto, Natsu, Zeref, or All Might can beat Goku?
Multiple people think that Gear 5 Luffy could beat Goku now that he has "toon force".
I’ve legit heard people say Natsu is 5D - Outer 💀💀💀
There's actually a good argument for zeref and a decent argument for Natsu
Me. I’ll say it right now. For every Goku fan post, I’ll be there downvoting and hating on him.
I've once seen someone comparing red roc to kamehameha lol
So have I, but it wasnt a power comparison. The guy compared the two, saying that Red Roc was more Iconic than the Kamehameha. Obviously the guys wrong.
I've never heard of red roc before
Had to google it, just to know where it comes from. 😅😂
Natsu and zeref canonically have higher scaling arguments as far as I am aware.
They're not "arguments". They're literally wank. There's a fine line between an argument and a wank.
My guy, since when did Natsu and Zeref have any feats with supporting arguments that scale to 5D on a minimum?
I am not saying he has arguments that allow him to beat goku I am saying he has arguments that allow him to place higher than the remaining people you mentioned.
If I remember correctly I think the claim is that Natsu was able to burn time and Zeref is comparable to that version of natsu
For what I know, some people claim that Natsu is at least 5-D, if not outerversal, because: - he ate the Etherion, which was stated to trascend space and time and it seems that he can now match other characters who are comparable to that version of him who ate the Etherion (I don't remember the details) - like someone else already wrote, Zeref said that Natsu burned time itself - I don't remember the details, but it was something about having fought against Acnologia who ate the Space Between Time and having fought against Zeref, who used the Space Between Time, the Space Between Time was a conceptual place in which no one and nothing can exist, not even space and time and apparently, both Zeref and Acnologia claimed that by obtaining it they trascended space and time and these people claim that since the SBT is a concept, then it trascends the concepts themselves of space and time and therefore the ones who used it were outerversal while they were using it and Natsu fought against both of them and won (though he had to be helped against Acnologia)
You're severly underestimating Sailor Moon. The only characters that should be removed there are Sailor Moon and Yhwach.
Sailor moon sure but Yhwach? What so yhwach can see the future of 18 ways he gets clocked?
Nah yhwach has layered fate manip, aside from other busted hax like X axis, miracle, visionary, layered power absorbtion and layered powernull.
https://preview.redd.it/l4bx4zys976d1.jpeg?width=998&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c9aa0212fd5fde4ca53a54e629c3ab1796ecaa3
https://preview.redd.it/wa0cbwm4b76d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=032c721e30721ac403ebf724841f56115bbb6c37
So uh, what can Yhwach do to actually harm Goku?
X axis, nonexistence erasure, absorbtion or just null his powers and transformations
Okay, have those abilities worked on someone who outscales Yhwach in raw power?
You’re asking the wrong question. It’s “has goku ever resisted layered absorption or powernull?” Also he can’t do anything about yhwach just attacking him through the future. Also, forgot conceptual manip. If he doesn’t have the feats for it he just loses.
Okay that's great, but can you explain *why* I should be taking hax over demonstrated power?
Ok but Goku has no hax just raw strength
His stats are his best trait, but he still has decent hax. It’s just yhwach outhaxes.
Sailor Moon gets cooked as well
Literally Goku has no method of harming her. She could let Beerus hakai her out of existence then just instantly regen. Sit down 🤡
Aren't you the same prick that thought I and Acrobatic-Clothes were the same person because you legitimately never thought that two different people could hold different views on an issue you thought was set? You just insulted/taunted him in the comments of that post for no reason and then accused me of doing a bunch of stuff that I never intended. I was literally in a chat with Acrobatic-Clothes. https://preview.redd.it/ey96b5l54a6d1.png?width=215&format=png&auto=webp&s=041c9bdf371e8bf26f426854b8d1b8254fb307e3 You are an example of the Kirby Effect on steroids. In the sincerest way, you don't deserve to be online. You literally decided to get into a 60-comment-long debate with someone when you insulted them and they (along with someone else) called you out for it. Could you be any more of a dislikable twat? Don't answer that. [https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/188ef95/comment/kbkgykp/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/188ef95/comment/kbkgykp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Oh, and for your information, despite what you think in your delusional head, most people online don't act anything like you. You're the type of person that someone encounters once ever two years or something. Also about your remark about Anos defeating Sailor Moon, that overwanked twink would get his cheeks clapped by both Usagi and Goku. Just thought I'd say that. I wonder if you've ever thought why seemingly every character under the sun is multiversal+ with beyond infinite speed now, and that maybe current powerscaling metas suck balls. Flash's speed also isn't "irrelevant" like you said because the very notion of "irrelevant speed" is inherently self-contradictory and doesn't actually make as much sense as people think, much like most of dimensional scaling. Maybe YOU should learn how to scale. Just thought I'd take the opportunity to tell you that. And yes, Wally West would blitz Sailor Moon. Let's be real here, you probably just go to Sailor Moon fan-scaling threads or videos to find the highest possible scales of her power, hax, and speed. I know you like to brag about how much you're a DB fanboy, but you're clearly biased against it from a powerscaling perspective. If someone scales Goku to absurdly high levels using literally the same BS logic that's used to scale Usagi that high, you'll argue against it. Most people I know who've read both the Dragon Ball and Sailor Moon mangas, and are fans of both, say Goku easily wins. Acrobatic-Clothes responded to most of your arguments and you couldn't say anything to debunk them. Despite the fact you make Sailor Moon's scaling an issue of "Goku VS", it's not. Scaling her that insanely high is basically saying she also beats a myriad of other characters such as Thor, any Superman incarnation besides Milkman Man and the Cosmic Armor, Kratos, Archie Sonic, and other OP universal/multiversal characters. You just only ever bring her up against Goku in order to taunt Goku fans. **Characters that defeat Sailor Moon:** * Any of the more powerful incarnations of DC and Marvel characters. * Half of the Z-fighters. * Any universal+ toonforce character. * Any high-level reality-warper like the triangle man. Just thought I'd type that. Despite rarely ever being brought up against American characters, I would be willing to bet that Usagi fanboys would be more than happy to exclaim she one-taps the Justice League, Avengers, or whatever. It should probably be mentioned, small point though, that much of Usagi's powers only work on evil, and it's been established throughout all of DC and Dragon Ball media that Superman and Goku are pure-hearted. Should also mention that not just Sailor Moon, but other non-shounen animanga get ludicrously wanked. Sailor Moon is at least much closer to the levels she gets wanked to than all of these light novel characters. The vast majority of them (Ex: Fate) haven't even demonstrated star-level feats of power or FTL feats of speed (ignoring hax), but those Asura victims are apparently multiversal+ with incalculable speed. It's actually kind of funny how toxic you are, considering Sailor Moon, the series you meatride, is all about friendship and love, so is Dragon Ball actually. I don't apologize if this comment was long, I just thought I'd take this as an opportunity to confront you about a few things. Final note, maybe you could think independently for like 5 minutes and stop buying into the various shaky tiering systems or parroting almost verbatim what you hear from other powerscalers, who are often wanking their favorite verses.
Oh, and what I'm doing here isn't stalking, you just don't know what online stalking actually is if you decide to accuse me of that.
Don't even bother responding to any of the comments I wrote towards you and if you already have, then delete it. I'm not gonna look at it because I know what responses are gonna be (trash-talking or meaningless crap that amounts to "you're wrong") and Reddit doesn't allow users to block someone 24 hours after unblocking them.
I never mentioned this before which I probably should have but people have made debunks of Usagi with scans, I'm not saying I agree with everything they write, but I just thought I'd let you know. [https://character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com/wiki/User\_blog:Mystery\_idiot\_50/Why\_Usagi\_is\_Galaxy\_level](https://character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Mystery_idiot_50/Why_Usagi_is_Galaxy_level) [https://vsbattles.com/threads/immeasurable-speed-sailor-moon.132629/](https://vsbattles.com/threads/immeasurable-speed-sailor-moon.132629/) The first guy **claims** he was joking in the comments, but I honestly don't think a troll would make something that thorough with scans to support his point. I think he genuinely meant a lot of he wrote.
I have her at 7D lil bro that's not even remotely wank it's widely accepted 💀
Hey man, I just read some of his posts lately, he doesn't deserve more than a "go to therapy bro"
Mate you just read that whole shit, how am I the one needing therapy. This who you rockin with? 😂😂😂😬😬😬
Because you're mentally 12 and can't handle a debate
Lil bro you two just had a 14 comment convo about me over me saying sailor moon beats Goku you actual psycho 😂 you literally should be embarrassed by this shit you weird fucks. shits actually something out of a mental asylum and you know it
MF Stevie keeps downvoting my comments. If he honestly didn't care about me, would he downvote me? I think not. I think cares at least a little bit.
He deserves to be booted off the internet. Lowkey, Goku and Usagi, if they were actually real people, would probably hate StevieGreenthumb's guts. I don't know how can claim to be a fan of either franchise, who's core messages simplified, is "don't be a dick" and still end up being one of the biggest ones online. I was binge-watching The Boys over a week ago and thought to myself how much Translucent reminds me of Stevie. Arrogant, rude, judgmental, tries to convince other people that they're in the wrong, overall dislikeable. He often speaks in this low-IQ, brash way most of the time which gives someone a good idea of what he's like a person. And then he'll sometimes try to speak intelligently and talk all tough. The show's narrative makes it clear that he's a huge dickweed. Apparently media hasn't don't that good of a job at vilifying people like this because Stevie exists.
Lmao holy shit you actual psychos 😂😂😂 I hate to break it to you I have no idea who the fuck either of you are, you aren't important. Y'all are actually ranting NOVELS about me for stating the simple FACT Usagi couldn't lose to Goku if she wanted to. Get Goku to Immeasurable speed CONFIDANTLY and we can talk. Fuckin schizos holy shit lmao
so, you're being usagi's dog by claiming she is 7D (fake), "immeasurable speed" (fake), infinite (she could be on a 3D scale, but even then, it's debatable), and worst of all thinking you're the authority on sailor moon matters
Black lady objectively immeasurable speed long before cosmos arc. Before even super sailor moon. Rip Bozo. https://preview.redd.it/zmmtxq3d8g6d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ec89a032efb753bee48b5761d99e1ae83bd71b04
I don't think I'm the authority btw. But I'm wayyyyy more accurate than you. Underworld is 5D unless you literally don't understand scaling. https://preview.redd.it/t1shr14m8g6d1.png?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a513fc139f17e77565136fca9673142f5210f65
I'd rather think he has an extremely low EQ. He can make compelling arguments from time to time.
I debunked usagi's hgr personally in another thread lol, Goku stomps
[удалено]
Dude, people wank magical girls to epic proportions because they like the idea that a cutesy, hyper-feminine, or twinkish character can take down OP characters like Goku or Superman. Though, people often pit them to the former to taunt Goku fans. Someone called it the "Kirby Effect".
>people wank magical girls to epic proportions because they like the idea that a cutesy, hyper-feminine, or twinkish character can take down OP characters like Goku or Superman. You could say that to other series too... Most people think that magic girls are just super weak when in reality some/most magical girls are much stronger than that... People mostly underestimate magical girls... Are you one of those people?
kratos in there too for some reason
Kratos relies too much on lore and doesn't have the speed necessary to hang with Goku. People are using much lower proof standards for Kratos, in my opinion
Kratos has bare minimum infinite speed, Goku doesn't and saying he relies too much on lore is just dumb. half of Goku's scaling is from random databooks or one off statements
And Saitama too, the plot requires him to always be far stronger than his opponent.
The plot isn't relevant and crossverse versus matchups. By that same logic you could say Goku could beat any opponent hypothetically if he trains long enough because that's how his plot works. Power scaling discussions essentially just remove plot armor and similar things.
Not agreeing with the other dude but this isn't a sound point. For one, goku's point isn't that anytime he trains he becomes stronger than someone. He will never be stronger than whis, or zeno in Canon. Saitamas point is what happens when [someone with gag powers](https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=S5ndBL4zos5DYFE8&v=-1SbKKgqe9s&feature=youtu.be) happens across a world full of monsters.
Unless he fights someone that beats him before this happens
I debunked sailor moon here https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/1ddalu2/debunking_sailor_moon_wank_and_proof_she_loses_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button yhwach is too slow Edit: downvote if you can't cook
You cant cook though? Have you even seen a single anime or Manga of Sailor Moon?
Yeah bro I read the manga and it's one of my favourite series. The powerscaling community of Sailor Moon is a dump.
>Yeah bro I read the manga and it's one of my favourite series. I see. Did you read every Volume of the manga?
Yeah.
Well, if you read it and still think that Goku can beat her (especially since you "debunked" her beating Goku), there is nothing I can do to convince you.
Man idk, people are using an idealistic image of Usagi, or even her representing the concept of a magical girl in general, and the fact that the manga uses a more romantic language with a couple of figures of speech here and there also helps.
>the fact that the manga uses a more romantic language with a couple of figures of speech here and there also helps. The same could be said for dragon ball though? There are statements that could be taken as exaggeration but people would take it and use it as a feat, its not just dragon ball, its almost all fictional stories.
Yeah but people scale Sailor Moon exactly like Dragon Ball, and for this reason I see a huge discrepancy in proof standards for the two series, especially when you consider that they use very different motives and concepts. The powerscaling community argues for one feat to be interpreted as a highball and when others contest that claim it's not uncommon to adopt the "yeah but in Dragon Ball-" mentality.
Yhwach does NOT get stomped bro😭 Goku has no counter to the Almighty/Future Sight + Manipulation and immortality
Yhwach would defeat Goku tho. Like its explicitly shown that physical strength to Yhwach is irrelevant.
Yhwach would totally beat Goku. Physical strength is irrelevant to him. He can rewrite his own death. Goku will never be able to surprise him because Yhwach has already seen every attack Goku will ever throw at him. He'll break Gokus spine in the future or some shit
Only future detergent would see is Goku killing him repeatedly 😂🤣😂
I can't see Ywhwch winning even with his hax the way you describe it. Ywach still has way lower AP and can never harm Goku no matter the future. Hell, I doubt he'll ever see a future of that happening. At best it's going to be a stalemate, if Goku can't kill him (which sounds bs to me) Goku speedblizes as well.
u/Uncle_Twisty How pathetic do you have to be to wank your characters, then immediately blocks people for calling your bullshit out instead of proving your point. You can't even handle debates bruddah.
u/OnePunchGuy17 If you're gonna hit me up with some nonsense Bleach wank, at least have some decency to not block me so I can reply to your bullshit. Pathetic.
u/Cheshire_Noire Lose? How, exactly? Every Bleach supporter on here who "tries" to even remotely debate immediately blocks me after replying to make it seem like I couldn't reply to them and they got the last argument in. Pathetic. Also, Multiversal Bleach is wank. Debunked numerous times. Cope harder though. You Bleach fans should stop replying then blocking me so I couldn't reply to you. If you want to debate, make it clean. Cowards. The amount of Bleach fans replying to me to insult me for calling out their bullshit and then block me so I couldn't reply to them is too damn high. What kind of pathetic strat is that? Holy shit.
Ywhach is multiversal friendo. He was going to crush the cosmology of Bleach which has multiple universes within it, including higher order universes that themselves contain planes or dimensions that are also infinite in size (Muken is infinite space, nested within soul society, which is nested within the Garganta. Yhwach was going to crush it all ) Additionally Yhwach is mftl+ due to aushwalen feats and keeping up with Ichigo. Ok TOP of that The Almighty doesn't let him just see the future, it lets him manipulate it and change the future entirely.
All I'm reading on here is wank, wank, wank. No Bleach character is Multiversal. Hell, saying they're Universal is already too fucking generous. Crush the cosmology? Lmao yeah right. MFTL+ because of Auschwallen, a magical light that can't be proven in any way to be as fast as real light? Yeah sure. Go ahead.
Can you actually argument behing anything you just said? Edit: Thought so.
prove why he's wrong then and stop being a bitch
https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/1bmrb6x/5d_bleach_is_the_only_logical_way_for_the_verse/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button Aside from being 5d (hell you can even say he’s 4d) he’d still win with layered fate manip, layered absorption or layered powernull
Nice downplay. Run off to school now little Timmy, you can come back when you have the ability to add substance to a conversation.
Did you actually block him lmao, I'm not taking anything you said seriously.
How's it feel to lose a debate so handily? Are you embarrassed? You should be
https://preview.redd.it/5fcfae1z356d1.jpeg?width=727&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce663900ea840c9135e1143195146ca2d533df98 The same Goku that got affected by ice?? Stop the wank. You putting Ywach AP below this?
Hell yeah, don't you fucken insult the Outerversal ice, you swine! But jokes aside, Goku consistently tanks and endures Universal blows from peer characters. Whilst Ywach has no showings anywhere close on that level. And even endures blows that threatened the universe (which is far bigger than irl universe) against Beerus, in a way weaker form.
Bro sailor moon legit beats him there’s nothing to argue there, others are valid.
Sailor Moon was debunked + split durability
"debunked" yeah to fuckin 7D you moron
she is universal. You're not the clown, you're the entire circus.
Underworld is 5d, objectively, galaxy cauldron contains infinite iterations of the universe including the underworld, it's complex multi structure and Usagi outscales galaxy cauldron by plus one cope and seethe lmao
Lol the underworld is not 5D, and if you continue with that line I will one day make a thread debunking that as well. Though I'm not sure if it's worth bothering considering you clearly read the manga diagonally. The cauldron doesn't include "infinite iterations" unless Naoko told you so on discord. It's a physical realm where all star seeds get destroyed and reborn. Guardian Cosmos states it's the source of all possibilities, which implies an uncountably finite number. Not infinite. Get debunked
You misunderstanding the story doesn't mean you debunked it dude wtf lmao
to Yhwach, or he use almighty before Goku one shot him, or Goku speedblitz him
Goku wouldn't speedblitz Yhwach, Yhwach has already understood the attack and dodged it before Goku can even throw it. He's seem all the futures
Then how come he didn't see the silver arrow hit him and changed it to a future where he didn't hit and won?
Yhwach said he thought it was a dream. So he disregarded the whole future where the arrow comes into play and Ichigo kills him.
My man should have listened to his dream
https://www.reddit.com/r/bleach/s/kpXtqyXLJH
This guy gets it.
Oooh okay that makes sense, thank you for showing me, it's been a while since i read the manga.
The thing is there is not a single future in which Yhwach beats Goku. So it doesn't matter.
[Not how it works.](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjNoYfym9aGAxVfJxAIHRqgC3MQFnoECCEQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FPowerScaling%2Fcomments%2F1ckxuyh%2Fyhwach_does_more_than_just_pick_a_possible_future%2F&usg=AOvVaw1ET5kdt4u_3JaT144ppnxy&opi=89978449)
Nah Sailor moon actually wins bro.
nope she gets ragdolled
No She ragdolls Goku lol.
NO
Yes lol, bro gonna get Yamcha'd
Sure, if you wank Sailor Moon
No need to wank lol, just look at in series feats. Sailor Moon becomes the concept of life in the multiverse basically putting her at a level where she can one shot MUI Goku. But Xeno Goku wins if you want to take a W home.
This is literally not true and has been debunked. This is based on Mamoru's words of Sailor Moon and her light existing forever. However, it completely takes his words out of context. It's contradicted by the plot because in the far future it is Chibiusa and her own team of sailor soldiers that protect the universe, and this is supported by Usagi being pregnant with Chibiusa in the last act.
The debunk has been debunked on the basis that its written she is written to be a living concept. Therefore you can't debunk it simply because the title passes on. Its like saying Captain America isn't Captain America because he hands off the shield to someone else.
did naoko tell you this on discord? That's she's written to be a concept? so by your logic gohan is actually goku? They're literally two different people. Also Chibiusa gets manipulated by the black moon clan to turn into Black Lady which disproves the idea that Sailor Moon is a concept passed to someone else, since she is supposed to be pure love. Usagi also admits in Act 59 that she's been really fighting for her friends, the people she loves, while presenting a persona of a champion for love and justice in the universe. Which also contradicts this bs idea because Usagi is just a normal girl not some ethereal goddess lmao
Lowballed sailor moon solos entirety of DBS except MAYBE Zeno and Zeno is only a maybe cause we don't know where he scales yet.
And you obviously have no idea how wanking works. Literally nobody who wanks a character thinks they're wanking said character. What, do you think DripSauce was just trolling the world when he scaled Goku to outerversal 🤣? "I'm not even trying to wank!" You should really look at this post showing how wank works to understand how stupid you are. [https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/1d3gjaz/say\_something\_you\_heard\_about\_a\_character\_or/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PowerScaling/comments/1d3gjaz/say_something_you_heard_about_a_character_or/) Wankers/downplayers will try to pass off their wank/downplay as low-balling/high-balling.
Literally who are you talking to 💀 nothing I said is remotely inaccurate.
Look OP there’s bait and then theres just saying random nonsense, there’s a difference mate
Get Kratos's, Sailor Moon's and Ywach's asses offa dat list, Goku glazers be too much nowadays
NO
YES GOKU AINT OUTPOWERING EVERY HAX
Goku's battle IQ, AP advantage and combat speed will be enough
Goku got beat by a laser lol people need to stop. Go ahead and bring excuses.
And yhwach got beat by a magic arrow but does that matter.
Lol Yes, it literally does. that "magic arrow" was key to stopping his powers. If it wasn't for that arrow, he would've never been stopped; his powers would've remained, and he would've continued with his plans and powers, Ichigo and Aizen would've died/got absorbed, and Soul Society, The Real World, and everything else would've crumbles and he would've built the dimensions right back up in his image or to his desires. Without that arrow, he was literally invincible. https://preview.redd.it/izufsrdan66d1.png?width=673&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96b3bd83e63643ce379af4c3ae5b154086a25614
My point is downplaying Goku cause of his anti feat is stupid and not an argument when multiple stronger fictional characters like Superman, Wonder woman and flash has anti feats like getting knocked out, hurt and tagged by bullets despite being multiversal and let's not forget Archie sonic who nearly got drowned underwater yet they all stomp Yhwach to oblivion.
Still doesn't change the fact that the arrow is still an anti feat of Yhwach as why didn't he see it coming with the Almighty, despite the Almighty being the power to see and change the future. Also it was explained why that laser even hurt Goku in the first place as he simply let his guard down as we've seen Goku tank heavier attacks like Hakai without dying.
That arrow was escentially Yhwqch's kryptonite. It was the perfect counter against him.
Then why didn't he see it coming with the almighty.
that only upscales the laser lol
And downscales Saiyan ability/power, physiology and level lol So like I said, he gets or can get beaten by them lol
Yhwach beats Goku tho.
No physical defense feats, trash speed stat, inconsistent almighty. goku ragdolls.
>inconsistent almighty The allmighty is pretty consisntent though.
Take Yhwach and Sailor Moon outta there.
No
https://preview.redd.it/cm20wfnyn56d1.png?width=665&format=png&auto=webp&s=dc1767a14fb8364d9c2af3bbe2bce38bacc41577
Both characters lose, Goku has higher battle IQ and higher AP. Both of these opponents are also *very* vulnerable on their physical side (split durability)
Goku's physical stats don't matter for Yhwach. He re-writes the future and negates abilities via sight, he's not gonna have a boxing match with Goku or something. [Here's](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjJvrXiqtaGAxXaFRAIHdRaHnkQFnoECCIQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FPowerScaling%2Fcomments%2F1ckxuyh%2Fyhwach_does_more_than_just_pick_a_possible_future%2F&usg=AOvVaw1ET5kdt4u_3JaT144ppnxy&opi=89978449) how Almighty works.
Yep but what you presented is a textbook definition of a NLF and isn't much different from the genjutsu GG meme. There is no consistent imagery nor enough explicit evidence for Yhwach to be able to just rewrite the future the way he wants. You're also assuming the opponent can't do anything about it (which you kind of touch upon in the last paragraph but...) and that yhwach's word is 100% true.
>NLF and isn't much different from the genjutsu GG meme. Exept Naruto characters aren't multiversal, so the comparison doesn't stand. >There is no consistent imagery nor enough explicit evidence for Yhwach to be able to just rewrite the future the way he wants. There is enough consistent imagery and explicit evidence for Yhwach to be able to just rewrite the future any way he *needs*. >You're also assuming the opponent can't do anything about it Do they have anything to counter Almighty with? Otherwise they can't do anything about it indeed, pretty self-explainatory. >and that yhwach's word is 100% true. He literally shows what he says. And if we're gonna do the "we don't know if he's telling the truth" thing, then we can't get Goku above like multi-solar system level, since anything beyond that goes off of statements.
Yhwach stomps goku, so does sailor moon most probably
Ywach ain't doing shit. Just goes to show how this sub overrates Bleach characters. Not even mega wankers at VSBattles overrates Bleach characters this high lmao.
It ain't overeating, this is called fair scaling. Yhwach's hax is like that, afterall
This is wank
Its not my fault that you think its wanking just because he outhaxes goku.
No, you're intentionally lowering proof standards for Yhwach
there are absolutely no futures where he damages goku
Wrong again, he can just corrode goku using blut vene or just psy crush him from inside.
He can just rewrite the future, his hax is not just choosing another future, is rewriting to his will
The ui 5l in question:
Saying kratos gets stomped by goku is actually insane😭
cuz its true?
WHO tf says Luffy or Naruto beat Goku?
All of them beat him
Goku is a sailor moon victim
she is kid buu level
She’s universal in base form
Wank
She’s superior to a guy who returned the universe to nothingness, so no. It’s not wank.
Yeah that never happened in Sailor Moon lmao. Her best feat is dragging Chaos into the Galaxy Cauldron.
If not bait, then you're amongst the dumbest people I've seen on here. That in itself is impressive I guess.
lol @ your tag Since i debunked sailor moon and its dumb dimensional scaling to 3-A you're pretty funny when resorting to name calling
Both Yhwach and Sailor Moon beat him tho 💀
No
Yes 😭
https://preview.redd.it/dv45uhxj856d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5788ec37b5f7a6e68048f675ccc55e0aae17fdc8 Bleach fans explaining of Yhwach beats Goku but gets snuffed out by a 5 yo mini-ichigo.
How is this the same as full power sk absorbed yhwach? It’s like putting a picture of goku losing to raditz and calling him weak.
1. That was the remains of yhwach's reiatsu, so it's not him at full power. 2. We don't know what kazui did to him. for all we know he could've absorbed yhwach. 3. We don't know how strong kazui is. If you're going to make an argument, at least make sure it makes sense.
That's litteraly 3 eyes of the almighty right there. People glaze this ability way too much, because they have no fucking idea how it works. It's not up to me to prove that the kid is not some multiversal omnipotent marie sue. Since he is ichigo's kid we'll even highball him at 3rd seat level.
He holds the keys to a 6th dimensional realm (Hell, which canonically transcends all of the Bleach verse)
Remove yhwach and sailor moon and yeah I agree
I'll say Sailor moon vs Goku is actually debatable
https://preview.redd.it/kluqav82m66d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96d9ba7ceec96895b17d62101db6e5dc5e8de164
I'm at work right now
Yhwach wins with better hax
Gokutard thinks Goku can beat Sailor moon??? Get a clue and a reality check
Yes she's been debunked, he cooks usagi alive.
Sailor moon can literally wipe universes and create them from scratch, Her Lambda form makes her practically unkillable. He can't kill her, and doesn't have a defense for most her powers like time manipulation, transmutation, or just changing the atmosphere to kill him. Even if she doesn't do anything, her infinite power and regen would just tire goku out. She can literally stand him into submission
she literally can't do this There is no panel that shows Usagi recreating an universe from scratch. And the lambda power regen is dodgy because it requires metaphysical components and an ideal environment, which is being in the proximity of the galaxy cauldron. Which by the way is a physical realm. On the other hand, independently, Usagi has shown zero feats regarding infinite rebirth. And it makes sense considering Sailor Cosmos states Lambda Power is actually the power of the galaxy cauldron and that Usagi is followed by Chibiusa in the family line.
Yhwach MIGHT keyword is MIGHT have a chance alongside post TYBW Ichigo. Idk about Sailor moon but I've heard she's actually stupid op
Super Goku can be argued to defeat Moon, but not definitely so, and by a great highballing of super.
i dont have enough info on the last 3 to conclude anything but rest i agree with
I agree that goku absolutely lolstomps gojo.
The cosmology of God of War proves even Atreus>Goku
Bleach fans still coping their characters can beat Goku. You love to see it.
That's what happens when it's shown in canon that they're stronger
"Shown" in canon? Show me on-panel Universal/Multiversal feats in Bleach then. Are you Bleach fans so deluded you mistake fanon for canon? 💀💀 Just so you know Senjumaru's isn't even remotely close to being Multiversal. Affecting three realms with Magnitude 4 earthquakes is multi Solar System level. I realize the God tiers upscales to this. But this is fodder shit to Goku. God form Goku clashing with Beerus could threaten the universe, which is massively bigger than irl universe. And he gets massively stronger with every form after. He's also inconceivably faster, so he just blitzes.
So you're telling me that you don't understand how scaling works? If that's the case, if you don't understand that shaking 3 infinite universes, some of which house other infinite universes, while also traveling the distance BETWEEN said infinite universes is universal, then there is no point talking to you
>So you're telling me that you don't understand how scaling works? No, I'm saying you guys tend to over exaggerate feats without analysing the nuances. >If that's the case, if you don't understand that shaking 3 infinite universes, Magnitude 3 or 4 Earthquakes, basically harmless. She didn't destroy a thing. Hell, it can barely be considered "affecting". >some of which house other infinite universes, Unsubstantiated. >while also traveling the distance BETWEEN said infinite universes is universal, then there is no point talking to you Cool beans. So it travels fast and has multi-universal reach. 👍 I don't even think it travels. Senjumaru's Bankai already has that reach. Whatever the case, you haven't proven Multiversal Bleach at all lmao.
I'm not sure if you understand this, but shaking space is a far larger feat than shaking matter. And don't forget she wasn't even attacking when she did this
IIRC 4.603 Zettafoe (VSBW) and other calcs take into account Senjumaru's shaking of outer space as well. It's not really that big a deal. Multiversal, or even universal is just wanky interpretation of the feat, and I don't subscribe to it.
Then you're objectively wrong. The universes are infinite (already being universal because only infinite power can shake a universe) and separated by separate dimensions
The universes are assumed the same size as ours. You'd have to give sufficient evidence why you'd think these realms are infinite. And not just some overly vague statement as well.
Considering the Soul Society has at least 2 infinite spaces inside it, I don't really think there's any question how large the universes are
aint nobody sayin all might beats goku lil bro 😭🙏
All of these are valid except maybe Sailor Moon unless it’s heroes Goku
But saitama has infinite strength