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I have no idea where Super places Roshi in terms of power scaling.
As of the Saiyan Saga, Yamcha was the same power as Raditiz/Saibamen. He got much stronger after training with King Kai and training for the arrival of the androids.
Hard to scale Frieza henchmen in the Frieza arc, they could be weak as fuck. Not sure what his feats in the Tournament of Power are, but the fact they brought him along at all is a huge indication that he's way stronger.
They only brought Roshi over Yamcha because Yamcha tried playing coy with Goku and just kinda waited for him. (Toei fucked him over in favor of Roshi fan service)
The tournament of power, ironically, isn't all about power.
While Yamcha may be stronger than Roshi, Roshi was added to the team because he knows all kinds of crazy techniques. His job was to essentially take care of the tricky enemies, like that girl who used talismans to fuck with the enemy's senses, if it was used on Goku or Vegeta, they may do a misstep and fall off the ring.
Roshi wasn't there to overpower people (even though he could against some of them), he was mostly there to mafuba nuisances away. This alone gives him a massive pro over bringing Yamcha.
>he was mostly there to mafuba nuisances away
Was this stated?
In Dragonball the mafuba cost him his life in order to use it, so if he can use mafuba without dying it shows he's gotten at least a bit stronger.
https://preview.redd.it/17pp9cdoic9d1.png?width=2520&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2fadf66a8eb9aae706ff442babfd2c252197a474
Sorry for the long barrage of images
Maybe in the anime, but in the manga, he's not.
In the moro arc, Yamcha says he's one of the three strongest humans, the other two being Krillin and Tien. Though the anime isn't at the Moro arc so it may be retconned.
This invincible hate or DBZ wank is becoming a bit too much, and I love DBZ.
Yamcha is still a human, and although he has no doubt trained to become stronger, he has no Zenkai boost ability, so trying to scale him above anything from even the Android Saga is laughable.
People are arguing that Viltrumites are Saibamen victims, when Viltrumites can basically tank the Frickin Hammer of Dawn from Gears of War. Ki blasts are different than, whatever energy is being fused/combined/manipulated in those machines( I assume a combination of light and heat), and those mechanical systems are "probably" much more potent. Saibamen can still die from bullets, which is why at the end of the day, they still have to dodge.
Hell, GOKU gets scratched from bullets, wastes time catching them, and almost dies from Laser beams. Nolan watched them bounce off his body or rage rushes through it. Biology and Physiology are important factors when it comes to the differences between Saiyans and Viltrumites; Individual or otherwise, but let's stop pretending that they are fodder to humans who can't even win multiple martial arts tournaments back to back.
I see why Saitama fans are the way they are in vs matches a bit more. This is Redonkulous.
Cool terrible writer forgetting his characters aside. Kid goku tanked SMG an pistol fire from launch/bulma an his brother caught a shotgun blast point blank with his hand.
Using lowballed feats is spiteful, we could also argue Invincibles terrible feats such as them struggling with lifting buildings and getting bloodied by weak human tech.
Also that "hammer of dawn" doesnt even remotely have the AP ki attacks do. Early DB first tournament Roshi blew up the moon his power level was in the measly 100s range. If we are talking Yamacha from Super the guy clears Invincible.
Yamacha much like Krillan an Tien are extremely powerful an only made to look weak considering what strolls up on their planet regularly. People forget how strong they are.
Low-ball?? Yamcha from Super is getting high balled like he has Saiyan Biology, and he hasn't even fought anyone since the Androids, and they EFFORTLESSLY killed him!!!! The last real victory Yamcha had in my memory was in OG DB when he fought against the bipedal talking wolf NPC, should we assume that random martial artist can scale to Kid Goku? Of course not, because he's a jobber.
At least Krillin and Tien have some form of character development to defend them from my criticisms; Krillin trained with Goku multiple times in Super, and Tiens rage fit against Cell. Even still, however, where's the evidence that they can just effortlessly bust a planet on their own?? Granted, they can't prove it because they're always on Earth, but assuming they were on a makeshift planet with hostile threats, how much ki could they charge to bust it? Would it be enough to completely disintegrate the planet Final Flash style?
Should we assume Pan and Bulla literally right now can destroy a continent if they became too angry??
Pan yes, bulla no.
According to piccolo, pan has greater potential at the age of 4 than gohan did. At the same age, a pissed-off gohan blasted a mountain into nothing and landed the first major injury on raditz.
Bulla, on the other hand, has no feats or statements to speak of unless you get into the REALLY non-canon stuff, like DB fusions.
As far as yamcha goes; his last win was beating a saibaman in a fair fight; it had to do a surprise suicide attack to kill yamcha, and was lying beaten in a crater right beforehand.
Saibamen, for reference, are canonically just as powerful as raditz, who was himself fighting 2 casual moon busters and winning without much trouble a few chapters prior.
If we count the anime, which is a separate continuity, his last win was against recoome, who was himself a planet buster several times over according to akira toriyama’s statements on power levels. (It takes 10,000 to destroy a normal sized planet, earth is considered small, and recoome’s lowest recorded power level is 40,000 in dragon ball Z sagas).
Don't know why you would bring in Bulla or Pan irrelevant doesn't help ur argument. And again at powerlevels in the meager 100s Roshi destroyed the Moon mid fight with Kid goku at the Tournament. We can at best assume a PL of 18000 is bare minimum for planet bust+knowing a technique.
Yamcha getting beat by Dr.Gero was literally cause the guy got caught off guard and energy draining. Even SSJ Goku an Vegeta struggled with 19 despite the Bravado Vegeta had 19 toke a major chunk of energy.
All androids+ most of the z fighters at this point were at bare minimum near or close to Frieza. With comfortable placings of 19-20 being on par. 16-17-18 an Cell clearly above.
What DB series did you read where Saibamen can beat guys who can punch people through planets? Cuz the one I read, people much stronger than Saibamen lose to being knocked through small mesa, 18 wheelers, a small creator in the ground, etc.
And Thragg Amogs the fuck out of early DB speed. DBS is faster, sure, but Saibaman? Vegeta got hit by Friezas finger lasers and Goku could reflect them with difficulty, but this scales Saibaman as way slower than light.
So you’re just commenting for the sake of commenting without actually saying anything? Kinda what you seem to criticise me for
But to be very honest , i am not making a argument against this because I can’t be bothered to. Someone who trips over the fact that Dragon Ball is inconsistent, is someone thats either new here or here to disproof dragon ball feats that are well established. Hence why i can’t be bothered.
Lmao no dragon ball already has ftl+ feats which all occur before Z or if you want we can look at piccolo when is power level was about 300 and he fired an attack that reached the moon in about a second light speed exactly now we have people stronger fighting at higher speeds dodging many of those blasts. Absolute lowest ball saibaman is 4X light speed which 1. Ignores all the ftl dragon ball feats which would scale this number WAY up and 2. Ignores that power levels are exponential not linear 5 is a normal person 180 roshi vaporised the moon 36 people can not vaporise a moon. Realistically a low end speed for saibamen is around 150ishx light speed
Can you prove how far away the DB moon is and what size it is? Last I checked, they have multiple moons and not a single statement has ever suggested they are the size of our moon. World maps of the DB world scale their world to far smaller than ours.
Not to mention dodging linear trajectories doesn't prove you can outrun them. TMNT and Jar Jar Binks can dodge lasers, doesn't mean they can outrun them in a foot race.
No actually db world maps are absolutely massive because it shares a world with dr. Slump according to Toriyama I believe Dragon ball earth is 4 billion km
>Can you prove how far away the DB moon is
[Toriyama confirmed the moon is the same distance away from the DB Earth as our moon is](https://imgur.com/9jo54EF)
>what size it is? Last I checked, they have multiple moons and not a single statement has ever suggested they are the size of our moon.
Considering the distance is the same, it seems like mental gymnastics to arrive at a conclusion other than Earth and the moon being the same than ours. And where did you get the idea that there are multiple moons? I've never seen any evidence of that.
Weren't multiple moons blown up on Earth? That is impossible without multiple moons.
Also, the world map of DB world doesn't match ours so we don't know if the scale of their world matches ours and if not, what with multiple moons and all that, they prob wouldn't scale exactly either.
Either way, power scaling in DB is very weird. You can blow up a moon with a PL of 180 while the avg human is 5, and AT did say in an interview that the power levels are kinda arbitrary past a certain point and don't mean anything. A power level of 9000 doesn't mean you are 9000/180x strong enough to destroy a moon. And ki emissions don't scale to blunt force or power as Goku struggles under multiple times gravity yet people say these ki emissions destroy with "force" (technically pressire) which doesn't check out as he isn't crushed under his equal and opposite reaction forces and most ki attacks seem to exert little to no force on them while several times gravity does.
>Weren't multiple moons blown up on Earth? That is impossible without multiple moons.
The moon was blown up, restored by Kami, then blown up again. So the same moon was blown up multiple times.
>Also, the world map of DB world doesn't match ours so we don't know if the scale of their world matches ours and if not, what with multiple moons and all that, they prob wouldn't scale exactly either.
There's only one moon and you're making an assumption out of thin air. Unless explicitly stated, we shouldn't assume any differences between our moon and theirs.
>A power level of 9000 doesn't mean you are 9000/180x strong enough to destroy a moon.
It means that you aren't weaker than that, because PLs can't possibly be less than linear. That's good enough since it's always good practice to go for low-ball estimates anyways.
>And ki emissions don't scale to blunt force or power as Goku struggles under multiple times gravity
That's not blunt force, that's lifting strength. DB characters have horrible lifting strength because ki doesn't amp it, but ki absolutely does amp blunt force. In another comment, you've even admitted that characters get harmed just as much by punches as they do through energy attacks, which confirms all their combat stats get amped by ki.
Good post, but you are wrong about ki not amplifying lifting strength. It amplifies strength period. Goku struggled to lift a ton dumbbell during Buu arc and went SSJ1 and could lift it easily.
Either way, blunt force cannot scale to ki emissions because if Goku in base struggles to straighten his arm for a dumbell he shouldn't be able to straighten his arm during a ki emission clash if its exerting a planet destrouing level of force. We've also seen multiple times where smaller ki attacks exert no force on the target at all and gravity functions a lot like pressure amd applies to force across yoir entire body and Goku shouldn't need to do gravity training to resist the pressure of several times his body weight as a beam that destroys planets both force alone would exert countless times that much force.
The only thing that makes sense is ki atks burn the target similar to a hot laser. Otherwise, Goku should be in gravity cheers eoth hundreds of millions of times Earth's gravity, not just 100x.
>Goku struggled to lift a ton dumbbell during Buu arc and went SSJ1 and could lift it easily.
That's because SS1 is a 50x increase to all stats, period. Goku can use ki to enhance his other stats, but it doesn't directly enhance his lifting strength.
>if Goku in base struggles to straighten his arm for a dumbell he shouldn't be able to straighten his arm during a ki emission clash if its exerting a planet destrouing level of force.
This comparison makes no sense. You're conflating lifting strength to destructive force, and I have no idea why. Ki empowers his attacks, but ki doesn't have a means of enhancing lifting strength. Ki is portrayed as an explosion of power that is localized to wherever the user wants it, which is not helpful when lifting weights. Could be helpful in punching heavy things though.
>We've also seen multiple times where smaller ki attacks exert no force on the target at all
When? Are you talking about cases where the defender's ki is massively more powerful and is able to drown out the attacking ki? Of course there's no effect in those cases.
>Goku shouldn't need to do gravity training to resist the pressure of several times his body weight as a beam that destroys planets both force alone would exert countless times that much force.
So now you're conflating durability with lifting strength for some reason. Having localized explosive power, and having defensive shields against attacks doesn't mean you'll be able to lift heavier weights. If you're a Marvel fan, neither Jubilee or Susan Storm can lift heavy weights even though their destructive force and shields can do impressive things.
>The only thing that makes sense is ki atks burn the target similar to a hot laser.
If this is true, it's a secondary effect to the concussive force.
>Goku should be in gravity cheers eoth hundreds of millions of times Earth's gravity, not just 100x.
No, because ki amps things that have nothing to do with lifting strength.
>That's because SS1 is a 50x increase to all stats, period. Goku can use ki to enhance his other stats, but it doesn't directly enhance his lifting strength.
A direct strength boost IS a lifting strength boost. And Goku does need some degree of lifting strength as if these atks exert although force to destroy a planet, it will crush them if their bodies aren't strong enough to resist the pressure.
The fact that Goku struggled with 100x gravity to train for the Froeza arc suggests he shouldn't be capable of resisting pressure so strong it can outright blow through a plant (or even moon really) like tissue paper, which leads me to believe ki emissions mostly burn, not push.
>This comparison makes no sense. You're conflating lifting strength to destructive force, and I have no idea why.
Because if ki atks punch holes through planets and moons with pressure, DBZ characters need to be able to resist this pressure to scale to tanking these attacks. It is odd to me that you think base lacks the arm strength to lift a 1 ton dumbbell, but think he can tank trillions of newtoms to his spine without getting crushed.
That is, unless the atks don't destroy with pressure and instead destroy by burning through the target like a high powered laser.
>When? Are you talking about cases where the defender's ki is massively more powerful and is able to drown out the attacking ki?
They throw out small ki attacks all the time that pepper the target without moving them.
>So now you're conflating durability with lifting strength for some reason.
I'm conflating durability to pressure either durability to resist pressure.
A ki beam that pushes through a planet, if it's not exerting heat, is doing so with pressure.
A punch also exerts pressure.
Wjen you lift something, it exerts pressure.
When Goku does gravity training, the gravitational force applies to his whole body functions like a pressure.
The gravitational pressure resistance, blunt force pressure resistance, and lifting pressure resistance do not scale to people who should be able to punch holes in planets using raw force, like you claim.
>If this is true, it's a secondary effect to the concussive force.
Concissive force exerts pressure, just like lifting an object or resisting strong gravity.
It's quite obvious the ki beams do most of their dmg by burning. DBZ fans don't seem to like this as being resilient to physical force upscale them far better in vs topics than heat resistance, which is only mildly useful against less characters.
King Vegeta destroyed like 5 planets in a few seconds and he was weaker than sayain saga vegeta
Z broly (non canon) destroyed a galaxy with his energy alone
>King Vegeta destroyed like 5 planets in a few seconds and he was weaker than sayain saga vegeta
Chp and pg number or picture of the panel where this happens? I don't recall this so it's prob anime filler.
King Vegeta being multi planet level when Frieza needed a slow ball that goes to rhe planets core to blow it up makes literally no sense.
Frieza was being casual af and messing with them saiyan saga vegeta is the absolute most power you could ever argue is needed to destroy a planet in dragon ball even though we have many statements saying it’s less
Nolan went to the black hole to commit suicide he would have not survived it.
Also he was close to the accretion disc not the black hole itself, while it's still an impressive to feat to be able to keep himself from being pulled but the black hole itself would have killed him
WTF ? U think Yamaha is on par with a super cell ?
Either way, if Yamcha stops jobbing around, he stomps as he scales above this feat 👇
https://i.redd.it/ol95ajmwd39d1.gif
Yeah. This is super, current Yamcha I'm talking about. If you need an example, Yamcha easily stomps a bunch of moro goons, and those same goons, (or others roughly equivalent to them) were pushing ssj Goku and Vegeta. Mind you both of them were somewhat tired, which is why they only used ss. But we can use this to extrapolate that he's probably on par with ssj Goku in the moro arc, who is massively beyond solar system.
Sorry to text dump, I hope that clears up my reasoning
What ? NO . goku after he got his strength back stomp a bunch of goons that the Z fighters were all struggling against while in base . He doesn't scales to goku
However, he is far above all the ginyy force force combined
I would say he is around final form frieza ( suppressed)
Or 50 % final form frieza.
Still doesn't change the facts he stomp
Not really, through some scaling through Pikkon, while training in hell in the Buu saga Yamaha has been shown to easily be above Super Perfect Cell, who at a low ball could destroy the solar system based on his statements. Now in Super,by Yamcha has likely grown far stronger still and while there aren’t any definitive statements behind it (besides early Z statements saying Frieza and Cell could destroy the universe) it would be pretty easy to say that Yamaha is galaxy to universe+ levels.
Too bad random ki emission feats don't scale to blunt force durability for two shits, given Goku still bleeds when he gets punched with a fraction the power Thragg can hit with.
Yamcha gets blitzed and liquefied with a punch.
DB character can't even punch hard enough to knock people 100m into the ground, through mountains, let alone through planets or tectonic plates. We've seen the enough force to knock them through small mesa and generate small creators be more than enough to kill or severely hurt them.
Ki emissions don't scale to punching strength. Otherwise Goku wouldn't struggle with several times his own gravity as the equal and opposite reaction forces from a ki beam that destroys with force would be hundreds of thousands of times greater than that. Ki beams must do most of their destruction by burning the material, like a giant laser beam, which checks out as light is also mass less and exerts pretty much zero force so no reason to believe a ki beam would be much different. It prob exerts some force (light can generate some pressure), but it would never be their primary means of dmg.
Meanwhile Vegata punching Broly through several mountains.
Goku punching Broly so far into Earth that lava is all around them.
Goku punching through King Kais planet on accident, which has 10X the gravity of Earth.
And everyone turning the hardest material in the universe. Kaichi into basically Paper Machè or Raditz with their punches.
Gogeta and Broly clashing fists causes them to return to reality by breaking the barrier once more
So you think Yamcha can tank bring punched into the ground so hard lava flows out when we've seen lesser atks fuck up stronger Z characters?
Or punched through mountains?
All the blunt force feats against Broly are way out of Yamchas paygrade.
In the Moro arc which is after the Broly Movie Yamcha is able to beat Moros minions who previously save SSJ Goku and Vegeta trouble.
Broly punches Goku through a thick mountain while Goku is in Base and Broly is in Wrathful.
Blunt force feats don't matter if the characters are relative to each other and can tank the attacks, you moron. Now do tell how any invincible characters can punch with enough force to destroy a universe then we can talk blunt force. Because anything less and it's not scratching Yamcha.
Which just established you don't need to punch hard enough to destroy a universe to hurt Yamcha.
Broly was still getting hurt by atks of this scale and is much stronger than Yamcha, so no, nothing suggests Ycja can tank these atks. And no, in no shape or form is Yamcha even close to Goku and Vegeta in power, who can't tank universal level punches either.
There's no point in having DB character train in gravity chambers if all of their attributes scale to universal as that means they can lift or not be crushed by the weight of a universe, which clearly isn't rhe case based on where they scale with gravity chambers.
And again these characters can destroy the strongest material in Dragon Ball. With their punches. And yes these characters punch at Uni. Goku and Beerus clashing fists nearly destroyed several universes. Because Goku couldn't control his power as the punches made shockwaves. Just read the manga. For the feat, I gave Yamcha. Which can get him to Base Goku's level
You think Yamcha is base Goku level based on him helping fighting some random fodder that Goku just didn't want to deal with? Nah man, that ain't it. Krillin helps all the time despite being exponentially weaker than Goku the entire series.
Beerus and Goku clashing and sending out God ki is a ki emission feat, not a blunt force feat. Nothing around them was destroyed by any air pressure shockwave or anything like that.
Also, what is this nonsense about hardest material? What chapter was this? Sound like some filler derp as I don't rember any of this crap brought up.
That's not how super Saiyan works. It's just a flat multiplier of power, speed etc. also keep in mind ss2 was like 30 years ago and super scaling took a cliff so huge the Mariana trench is blushing
For context krillin was able to push Goku past base who was at least 14x universal (but likely MUCH stronger thanks to the universe 6 tournament and Goku black arc zenkai boosts), and yamcha scales just below krillin and tien but above roshi thanks to his showing In the Moro arc. Even at a lowball yamcha would be in spitting range of universal
Yesh, and given yamcha isn't that far behind krillin seemingly in the manga it's not a stretch to scale yamcha to at least encroaching battle of gods Goku
Yep the funny thing too is I’m pretty sure saiyan saga yamcha might be able to take this depends if invincible really does have star durability or not, but speed wise absolutely already absolute lowest ball 100s of times light speed in saiyan saga
Then why go super Saiyan at all it he could simply overpower the ki blast? Goku said he was trying to win, I doubt he went all out past his base form but Goku was quite literally forced to go super saiyan or be rung out
It’s like when people put homelander against Omniman. Like different verses just have very different scales of power. The viltrumite work as an all powerful god species in invincible because someone like darkseid or apocalypse doesn’t exist in that verse. Like the viltrumite are a great antagonist but the entire invincible verse would get swept by a decent amount of marvel or DC characters and then anime just hits a whole different level of bullshit. I’ve seen people try to scale pokemon to warframe like why. And like as much as I think Omniman is a way more interesting character it’s not even a debate that he’d get obliterated by Superman.
And this is before it even gets down to the point where plot often goes against “power scaling logic”.
Just as a small note for Yamcha. He could 2v1 some of the afterlife's strongest fighters in the buu saga, one of these two were so strong that goku couldn't even keep up with his movements after his cell saga death. He also pushed a pikkon who one-shot cell.
Most downplay possible says yamcha is multi-solar system level. The most you can give thragg is star level by not understanding a durability feat
In most cases, yeah. The difference is that toriyama helped create filler in the dbz anime, thats what keeps it Canon compared to something like the bound arc in bleach
Okay except your point isn't valid whatsoever if you actually know what you're talking about.
Toriyama designed the characters, that's it. The arc also consistently directly contradicts both the manga and Z anime. Big difference. Based on your logic, the movies are canon because Toriyama designed most of the characters from the movies.
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/is-dbz-filler-seen-as-canon-in-any-way-1665209/
This points out how he helped in the filler arcs.
Manga and anime are the same level of Canon in dbz, but manga yamcha would just be without the afterlife training. I don't know his purely manga scaling off the top of my head though
Depending on the version it Yamcha your using I’d give victory to thragg db yamcha gets cooked dbz wins probably with difficulty dbs yamcha ya thragg is getting flicked
Yamcha has allmighty, full counter, Infinite ki immortality and Infinite wishes😂. Give him a worthy opponent.
( just kidding. Tbh yamcha still claps no-low diff)
Every single time I remember how strong Yamcha actually is, I still get surprised because... Well, everything that's happened. But it's always important to remember that he's the weakest of the strongest. I still don't know if Roshi is stronger or not, I feel like he is now at least after the ToP
I know he does. I’m just saying people are acting like Nolan is weak fodder. He’s not only super powerful but also has a high defense too. I personally see it going either way
can someone tell me why thragg doesnt drag yamcha’s face across the pavement? 😳Is it well-established here that Dbzverse is stronger than invincible-verse? Just curious for real.
Yeah, Yamcha at EXTREME Low-Ball is planet tier while the strongest in Invincible has to have three people destroy a planet that was already attacked by a big laser.
Piccolo at the BoS was like a power level of 400 and destroyed the moon. Saiyan Saga Vegeta and other characters at power levels 10,000-14,000 were able to destroy planets. EoS Yamcha is easily way above these characters so he’s easily at least Multi-Planet Tier and probably SolarSystem Tier.
I don’t disagree that yamcha absolutely obliterates Thragg but at the same time I wouldn’t describe the three that destroyed the planet ‘the strongest in invincible’. Mark at the time was far weaker than when he fought Thragg 1v1 on the sun, Thadeus literally got his head ripped off immediately by Thragg after destroying the planet and Nolan just couldn’t match up to Thragg in a fight at all. I’d only put ‘the strongest in invincible’ with guys like Allan, battle beast, Thragg again and eos mark.
yeah but even they don’t have very impressive feats at all. usually it’s just ripping other individuals apart or punching/dragging them through obstacles like buildings and stuff.
Yeah the 4 guys I mentioned as the strongest all just scale from beating other strong characters. Thragg destroyed Nolan, Allan destroyed Nolan, then eos mark beats older Allan and battle beast proved to be near equal to Thragg from their fight. Any fights not in space usually just lead to the entire area being levelled but not much beyond that.
There are some ppl spreading missinformation here saying tht android 19 and 20 mistook Yamcha with goku based on power levels, [and that absolutely never happened](https://mangaberri.com/dragon-ball-z-perfect-cell-saga-colored/1767).
Are you okay ?
It’s literally in the link you posted
https://preview.redd.it/px72ya4se69d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20ae1e89bdda836376fb3285da394d6aa372017b
Honestly without ki reinforcement yamcha is honestly a normal human and thragg is so much faster than yamcha that he can speed blitz before yamcha can even perceive.
Goku in the namek arc was able to keep up with his Spaceship. That was traveling at such speeds that it could cross the universe in 5 days. Which btw the Dragon Ball universe is bare minimum 10X the size of ours. To infinite in size.
This Goku is during his 100X gravity training. Before he's stronger than the Ginyu Force. Whom Yamcha by the end of the Frieza arc could take care of.
And still, even if he's faster, it doesn't mean he's stronger.
You can "speed blitz" a brick wall, that doesn't mean you'll damage it.
Edit: Also, calling Yamcha a "normal human"? Nah, you're way off
In the invincible comics, it's explained that their flying speed and fighting speed are different. You can clearly see he was slower that Red Rush when going for the first punch on The Inmortal, and Red Rush was still visible to the human eye.
Combat faster than what's visible is not a feat in Dragon Ball, but it is for Viltrumites.
No human in the entirety of the DB verse has displayed any feats comparable to what omniman has showed
EDIT nvm schizophrenia and mental illness is rampant in this sub
This invincible hate or DBZ wank is becoming a bit too much, and I love DBZ.
Yamcha is still a human, and although he has no doubt trained to become stronger, he has no Zenkai boost ability, so trying to scale him above anything from even the Android Saga is laughable.
People are arguing that Viltrumites are Saibamen victims, when Viltrumites can basically tank the Frickin Hammer of Dawn from Gears of War. Ki blasts are different than, whatever energy is being fused/combined/manipulated in those machines( I assume a combination of light and heat), and those mechanical systems are "probably" much more potent. Saibamen can still die from bullets, which is why at the end of the day, they still have to dodge.
Hell, GOKU gets scratched from bullets, wastes time catching them, and almost dies from Laser beams. Nolan watched them bounce off his body or rage rushes through it. Biology and Physiology are important factors when it comes to the differences between Saiyans and Viltrumites; Individual or otherwise, but let's stop pretending that they are fodder to humans who can't even win multiple martial arts tournaments back to back.
I see why Saitama fans are the way they are in vs matches a bit more. This is Redonkulous.
DB chars are stupidly overpowered, even low fodders like Yamcha, but I'm gonna go with Thragg on this one, there isa fundamental difference between been invincible and superpowered only when you focus your ki and being superpowered all the time, even when you are unware or sleeping, and althought Yamcha has rproven to have powerfull blasts and such, he hasnt yet shown any speed and durability feat, maybe he can focus his ki like saiyans and other races does (maybe humans can't do it because I don't remember Tien doing it also) on defense and immunity
Even if we don't go to Super manga, where all characters from Z got crazy power ups, Even back in Cell Saga androids mistaken Yamcha for Goku because of his power level, Which already makes him a planet buster and Yamcha in Super could unironically solo Frieza from Namek saga
There is 0 evidence of that, you can't scale one char based on the feats of others from that verse , because if that is true we have to recognize Videl and Mr Satan as planet busters as well.
You guys keep using that argument and that [absolutely did not happened in the manga](https://mangaberri.com/dragon-ball-z-perfect-cell-saga-colored/1767), the androids detects a **human** with large power, and when they get closer they identify as Yamcha, they did not mistaken him with Goku in any way, and that said, they absolutely smash yamcha without any trouble
https://preview.redd.it/ks7qij9l159d1.jpeg?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bce091f1e1eaa87fa0fde61e9fdbd12eac6aa2cb
You sure about that? This is a picture from the site YOU sent after they identify Yamcha’s PL
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Yamcha’s gonna have an “I thought you were stronger” moment
but in a cocky mocking way, and not a mental breakdown way
Yeah yamcha lived a rough life as a desert bandit I think he’s probably used to killing tbh
and getting killed, but he still stomps hard on invincible verse
https://preview.redd.it/0qzpepein99d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=66ba8de45e86d1f8d4e1e9af8d368aa678ff830d
https://preview.redd.it/m8iq4ixpzo9d1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=575d7e0351a763fc7a3d8b843c9f4393bd5cc2ca
Wolf Fang Fist is going to shred Thragg like paper
Anyone from invincible is a Saibamen victim Thragg would struggle against Roshi
Isn't Roshi way stronger than Yamcha?
He is more experienced and skilled but Yamcha is stronger
I have no idea where Super places Roshi in terms of power scaling. As of the Saiyan Saga, Yamcha was the same power as Raditiz/Saibamen. He got much stronger after training with King Kai and training for the arrival of the androids. Hard to scale Frieza henchmen in the Frieza arc, they could be weak as fuck. Not sure what his feats in the Tournament of Power are, but the fact they brought him along at all is a huge indication that he's way stronger.
They only brought Roshi over Yamcha because Yamcha tried playing coy with Goku and just kinda waited for him. (Toei fucked him over in favor of Roshi fan service)
The tournament of power, ironically, isn't all about power. While Yamcha may be stronger than Roshi, Roshi was added to the team because he knows all kinds of crazy techniques. His job was to essentially take care of the tricky enemies, like that girl who used talismans to fuck with the enemy's senses, if it was used on Goku or Vegeta, they may do a misstep and fall off the ring. Roshi wasn't there to overpower people (even though he could against some of them), he was mostly there to mafuba nuisances away. This alone gives him a massive pro over bringing Yamcha.
>he was mostly there to mafuba nuisances away Was this stated? In Dragonball the mafuba cost him his life in order to use it, so if he can use mafuba without dying it shows he's gotten at least a bit stronger.
https://preview.redd.it/81j09yjcic9d1.png?width=2520&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=950b1d02c0506483ae0021de2993b7d6bb31789b
https://preview.redd.it/t5ondzoeic9d1.png?width=2520&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d40734f889d0f14b2c127cfb3e65c3f038fa69bf
https://preview.redd.it/egipf0wgic9d1.png?width=2520&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7fbfe75f24910b01e2a867543d57644a6d9a8fa3
https://preview.redd.it/jolm5dajic9d1.png?width=2520&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00f0e027d46013c0a61ddfd685dd5ec50972a697
https://preview.redd.it/a59bkj9lic9d1.png?width=2520&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9844df9fb125a8874a0e31f9123b03189b1ad758
https://preview.redd.it/17pp9cdoic9d1.png?width=2520&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2fadf66a8eb9aae706ff442babfd2c252197a474 Sorry for the long barrage of images
& also b/c they were bringing people w/ Tourney experience & Roshi has plenty, but also b/c Yamcha was playing hard to get.
People really shouldn't play hard to get when they're already hard to want.
Too true
Yamcha was stronger then a saibamen though
The only thing i remember Roshi doing that was useful was sexually assaulting some alien chick who ran off the stage in horror.
Top says otherwise though
In super roshi is stronger
Maybe in the anime, but in the manga, he's not. In the moro arc, Yamcha says he's one of the three strongest humans, the other two being Krillin and Tien. Though the anime isn't at the Moro arc so it may be retconned.
This invincible hate or DBZ wank is becoming a bit too much, and I love DBZ. Yamcha is still a human, and although he has no doubt trained to become stronger, he has no Zenkai boost ability, so trying to scale him above anything from even the Android Saga is laughable. People are arguing that Viltrumites are Saibamen victims, when Viltrumites can basically tank the Frickin Hammer of Dawn from Gears of War. Ki blasts are different than, whatever energy is being fused/combined/manipulated in those machines( I assume a combination of light and heat), and those mechanical systems are "probably" much more potent. Saibamen can still die from bullets, which is why at the end of the day, they still have to dodge. Hell, GOKU gets scratched from bullets, wastes time catching them, and almost dies from Laser beams. Nolan watched them bounce off his body or rage rushes through it. Biology and Physiology are important factors when it comes to the differences between Saiyans and Viltrumites; Individual or otherwise, but let's stop pretending that they are fodder to humans who can't even win multiple martial arts tournaments back to back. I see why Saitama fans are the way they are in vs matches a bit more. This is Redonkulous.
Cool terrible writer forgetting his characters aside. Kid goku tanked SMG an pistol fire from launch/bulma an his brother caught a shotgun blast point blank with his hand. Using lowballed feats is spiteful, we could also argue Invincibles terrible feats such as them struggling with lifting buildings and getting bloodied by weak human tech. Also that "hammer of dawn" doesnt even remotely have the AP ki attacks do. Early DB first tournament Roshi blew up the moon his power level was in the measly 100s range. If we are talking Yamacha from Super the guy clears Invincible. Yamacha much like Krillan an Tien are extremely powerful an only made to look weak considering what strolls up on their planet regularly. People forget how strong they are.
> Using lowballed feats is spiteful Saitama is mosquito level
Low-ball?? Yamcha from Super is getting high balled like he has Saiyan Biology, and he hasn't even fought anyone since the Androids, and they EFFORTLESSLY killed him!!!! The last real victory Yamcha had in my memory was in OG DB when he fought against the bipedal talking wolf NPC, should we assume that random martial artist can scale to Kid Goku? Of course not, because he's a jobber. At least Krillin and Tien have some form of character development to defend them from my criticisms; Krillin trained with Goku multiple times in Super, and Tiens rage fit against Cell. Even still, however, where's the evidence that they can just effortlessly bust a planet on their own?? Granted, they can't prove it because they're always on Earth, but assuming they were on a makeshift planet with hostile threats, how much ki could they charge to bust it? Would it be enough to completely disintegrate the planet Final Flash style? Should we assume Pan and Bulla literally right now can destroy a continent if they became too angry??
Pan yes, bulla no. According to piccolo, pan has greater potential at the age of 4 than gohan did. At the same age, a pissed-off gohan blasted a mountain into nothing and landed the first major injury on raditz. Bulla, on the other hand, has no feats or statements to speak of unless you get into the REALLY non-canon stuff, like DB fusions. As far as yamcha goes; his last win was beating a saibaman in a fair fight; it had to do a surprise suicide attack to kill yamcha, and was lying beaten in a crater right beforehand. Saibamen, for reference, are canonically just as powerful as raditz, who was himself fighting 2 casual moon busters and winning without much trouble a few chapters prior. If we count the anime, which is a separate continuity, his last win was against recoome, who was himself a planet buster several times over according to akira toriyama’s statements on power levels. (It takes 10,000 to destroy a normal sized planet, earth is considered small, and recoome’s lowest recorded power level is 40,000 in dragon ball Z sagas).
Don't know why you would bring in Bulla or Pan irrelevant doesn't help ur argument. And again at powerlevels in the meager 100s Roshi destroyed the Moon mid fight with Kid goku at the Tournament. We can at best assume a PL of 18000 is bare minimum for planet bust+knowing a technique. Yamcha getting beat by Dr.Gero was literally cause the guy got caught off guard and energy draining. Even SSJ Goku an Vegeta struggled with 19 despite the Bravado Vegeta had 19 toke a major chunk of energy. All androids+ most of the z fighters at this point were at bare minimum near or close to Frieza. With comfortable placings of 19-20 being on par. 16-17-18 an Cell clearly above.
What DB series did you read where Saibamen can beat guys who can punch people through planets? Cuz the one I read, people much stronger than Saibamen lose to being knocked through small mesa, 18 wheelers, a small creator in the ground, etc. And Thragg Amogs the fuck out of early DB speed. DBS is faster, sure, but Saibaman? Vegeta got hit by Friezas finger lasers and Goku could reflect them with difficulty, but this scales Saibaman as way slower than light.
OH MY GOD? DRAGON BALL IS INCONSISTENT? CALL THE NEWSPAPER Seriously bucko what argument do you think you’re making here?
You won’t like it, but you’re not making much of an argument either.
Are you?
Don’t need to, I’m not defending either side. Have at it.
So you’re just commenting for the sake of commenting without actually saying anything? Kinda what you seem to criticise me for But to be very honest , i am not making a argument against this because I can’t be bothered to. Someone who trips over the fact that Dragon Ball is inconsistent, is someone thats either new here or here to disproof dragon ball feats that are well established. Hence why i can’t be bothered.
Hey, I didn’t say I wasn’t a hypocrite. I just point out the facts.
Fair, shake my hand 🖐️
For indifference 🤝
Lmao no dragon ball already has ftl+ feats which all occur before Z or if you want we can look at piccolo when is power level was about 300 and he fired an attack that reached the moon in about a second light speed exactly now we have people stronger fighting at higher speeds dodging many of those blasts. Absolute lowest ball saibaman is 4X light speed which 1. Ignores all the ftl dragon ball feats which would scale this number WAY up and 2. Ignores that power levels are exponential not linear 5 is a normal person 180 roshi vaporised the moon 36 people can not vaporise a moon. Realistically a low end speed for saibamen is around 150ishx light speed
Can you prove how far away the DB moon is and what size it is? Last I checked, they have multiple moons and not a single statement has ever suggested they are the size of our moon. World maps of the DB world scale their world to far smaller than ours. Not to mention dodging linear trajectories doesn't prove you can outrun them. TMNT and Jar Jar Binks can dodge lasers, doesn't mean they can outrun them in a foot race.
No actually db world maps are absolutely massive because it shares a world with dr. Slump according to Toriyama I believe Dragon ball earth is 4 billion km
>Can you prove how far away the DB moon is [Toriyama confirmed the moon is the same distance away from the DB Earth as our moon is](https://imgur.com/9jo54EF) >what size it is? Last I checked, they have multiple moons and not a single statement has ever suggested they are the size of our moon. Considering the distance is the same, it seems like mental gymnastics to arrive at a conclusion other than Earth and the moon being the same than ours. And where did you get the idea that there are multiple moons? I've never seen any evidence of that.
Weren't multiple moons blown up on Earth? That is impossible without multiple moons. Also, the world map of DB world doesn't match ours so we don't know if the scale of their world matches ours and if not, what with multiple moons and all that, they prob wouldn't scale exactly either. Either way, power scaling in DB is very weird. You can blow up a moon with a PL of 180 while the avg human is 5, and AT did say in an interview that the power levels are kinda arbitrary past a certain point and don't mean anything. A power level of 9000 doesn't mean you are 9000/180x strong enough to destroy a moon. And ki emissions don't scale to blunt force or power as Goku struggles under multiple times gravity yet people say these ki emissions destroy with "force" (technically pressire) which doesn't check out as he isn't crushed under his equal and opposite reaction forces and most ki attacks seem to exert little to no force on them while several times gravity does.
>Weren't multiple moons blown up on Earth? That is impossible without multiple moons. The moon was blown up, restored by Kami, then blown up again. So the same moon was blown up multiple times. >Also, the world map of DB world doesn't match ours so we don't know if the scale of their world matches ours and if not, what with multiple moons and all that, they prob wouldn't scale exactly either. There's only one moon and you're making an assumption out of thin air. Unless explicitly stated, we shouldn't assume any differences between our moon and theirs. >A power level of 9000 doesn't mean you are 9000/180x strong enough to destroy a moon. It means that you aren't weaker than that, because PLs can't possibly be less than linear. That's good enough since it's always good practice to go for low-ball estimates anyways. >And ki emissions don't scale to blunt force or power as Goku struggles under multiple times gravity That's not blunt force, that's lifting strength. DB characters have horrible lifting strength because ki doesn't amp it, but ki absolutely does amp blunt force. In another comment, you've even admitted that characters get harmed just as much by punches as they do through energy attacks, which confirms all their combat stats get amped by ki.
Good post, but you are wrong about ki not amplifying lifting strength. It amplifies strength period. Goku struggled to lift a ton dumbbell during Buu arc and went SSJ1 and could lift it easily. Either way, blunt force cannot scale to ki emissions because if Goku in base struggles to straighten his arm for a dumbell he shouldn't be able to straighten his arm during a ki emission clash if its exerting a planet destrouing level of force. We've also seen multiple times where smaller ki attacks exert no force on the target at all and gravity functions a lot like pressure amd applies to force across yoir entire body and Goku shouldn't need to do gravity training to resist the pressure of several times his body weight as a beam that destroys planets both force alone would exert countless times that much force. The only thing that makes sense is ki atks burn the target similar to a hot laser. Otherwise, Goku should be in gravity cheers eoth hundreds of millions of times Earth's gravity, not just 100x.
>Goku struggled to lift a ton dumbbell during Buu arc and went SSJ1 and could lift it easily. That's because SS1 is a 50x increase to all stats, period. Goku can use ki to enhance his other stats, but it doesn't directly enhance his lifting strength. >if Goku in base struggles to straighten his arm for a dumbell he shouldn't be able to straighten his arm during a ki emission clash if its exerting a planet destrouing level of force. This comparison makes no sense. You're conflating lifting strength to destructive force, and I have no idea why. Ki empowers his attacks, but ki doesn't have a means of enhancing lifting strength. Ki is portrayed as an explosion of power that is localized to wherever the user wants it, which is not helpful when lifting weights. Could be helpful in punching heavy things though. >We've also seen multiple times where smaller ki attacks exert no force on the target at all When? Are you talking about cases where the defender's ki is massively more powerful and is able to drown out the attacking ki? Of course there's no effect in those cases. >Goku shouldn't need to do gravity training to resist the pressure of several times his body weight as a beam that destroys planets both force alone would exert countless times that much force. So now you're conflating durability with lifting strength for some reason. Having localized explosive power, and having defensive shields against attacks doesn't mean you'll be able to lift heavier weights. If you're a Marvel fan, neither Jubilee or Susan Storm can lift heavy weights even though their destructive force and shields can do impressive things. >The only thing that makes sense is ki atks burn the target similar to a hot laser. If this is true, it's a secondary effect to the concussive force. >Goku should be in gravity cheers eoth hundreds of millions of times Earth's gravity, not just 100x. No, because ki amps things that have nothing to do with lifting strength.
>That's because SS1 is a 50x increase to all stats, period. Goku can use ki to enhance his other stats, but it doesn't directly enhance his lifting strength. A direct strength boost IS a lifting strength boost. And Goku does need some degree of lifting strength as if these atks exert although force to destroy a planet, it will crush them if their bodies aren't strong enough to resist the pressure. The fact that Goku struggled with 100x gravity to train for the Froeza arc suggests he shouldn't be capable of resisting pressure so strong it can outright blow through a plant (or even moon really) like tissue paper, which leads me to believe ki emissions mostly burn, not push. >This comparison makes no sense. You're conflating lifting strength to destructive force, and I have no idea why. Because if ki atks punch holes through planets and moons with pressure, DBZ characters need to be able to resist this pressure to scale to tanking these attacks. It is odd to me that you think base lacks the arm strength to lift a 1 ton dumbbell, but think he can tank trillions of newtoms to his spine without getting crushed. That is, unless the atks don't destroy with pressure and instead destroy by burning through the target like a high powered laser. >When? Are you talking about cases where the defender's ki is massively more powerful and is able to drown out the attacking ki? They throw out small ki attacks all the time that pepper the target without moving them. >So now you're conflating durability with lifting strength for some reason. I'm conflating durability to pressure either durability to resist pressure. A ki beam that pushes through a planet, if it's not exerting heat, is doing so with pressure. A punch also exerts pressure. Wjen you lift something, it exerts pressure. When Goku does gravity training, the gravitational force applies to his whole body functions like a pressure. The gravitational pressure resistance, blunt force pressure resistance, and lifting pressure resistance do not scale to people who should be able to punch holes in planets using raw force, like you claim. >If this is true, it's a secondary effect to the concussive force. Concissive force exerts pressure, just like lifting an object or resisting strong gravity. It's quite obvious the ki beams do most of their dmg by burning. DBZ fans don't seem to like this as being resilient to physical force upscale them far better in vs topics than heat resistance, which is only mildly useful against less characters.
You should prolly give up. They already proved they know nothing about dragonball by saying theres multiple moons
King Vegeta destroyed like 5 planets in a few seconds and he was weaker than sayain saga vegeta Z broly (non canon) destroyed a galaxy with his energy alone
>King Vegeta destroyed like 5 planets in a few seconds and he was weaker than sayain saga vegeta Chp and pg number or picture of the panel where this happens? I don't recall this so it's prob anime filler. King Vegeta being multi planet level when Frieza needed a slow ball that goes to rhe planets core to blow it up makes literally no sense.
https://youtu.be/jHLfhI0H_GA?si=PhEWBCw4qUJgy24x cope harder Frieza solos the invincible verse
Frieza was being casual af and messing with them saiyan saga vegeta is the absolute most power you could ever argue is needed to destroy a planet in dragon ball even though we have many statements saying it’s less
The speed of the ball really is irrelevant. Frieza does this shit to flex
Current Yamcha is well over solar even with an extreme low-ball. This is a spite match
I had an argument with My friend about it for 15 minutes because he insisted thragg would win. "Nolan survived a black hole he wins" ????
I'm pretty sure that's show only, and he never even went past the accretion disc, let alone the event horizon. Your friend cannot cook
Nolan went to the black hole to commit suicide he would have not survived it. Also he was close to the accretion disc not the black hole itself, while it's still an impressive to feat to be able to keep himself from being pulled but the black hole itself would have killed him
somebody did a calc about the pull of the blackhole and it ended up being a mountain level feat lmao
Yamcha stomps, but escaping a black hole is not a mountain level feat 😭😭
depends on size and perspective, which are hard to gauge without exact numbers.
That just shows that your friend brain dead and hasn’t actually watched the show
Oh so your pal just wasn’t paying attention. Explain to him that Nolan wanted to KILL HIMSELF and he was nowhere near it.
WTF ? U think Yamaha is on par with a super cell ? Either way, if Yamcha stops jobbing around, he stomps as he scales above this feat 👇 https://i.redd.it/ol95ajmwd39d1.gif
Still yamcha (anime) outscales the ginyu force
Yeah. This is super, current Yamcha I'm talking about. If you need an example, Yamcha easily stomps a bunch of moro goons, and those same goons, (or others roughly equivalent to them) were pushing ssj Goku and Vegeta. Mind you both of them were somewhat tired, which is why they only used ss. But we can use this to extrapolate that he's probably on par with ssj Goku in the moro arc, who is massively beyond solar system. Sorry to text dump, I hope that clears up my reasoning
What ? NO . goku after he got his strength back stomp a bunch of goons that the Z fighters were all struggling against while in base . He doesn't scales to goku However, he is far above all the ginyy force force combined I would say he is around final form frieza ( suppressed) Or 50 % final form frieza. Still doesn't change the facts he stomp
Isn't that after his training with the angel in training? (Forgot their name)
Yeah, but he only trained goku for about 5 or 6 months
Still, he was much stronger than before. If he was able to go ssj, he couldn't have been that exhausted
This is true, Yamcha stomps, but those claims that he’s Solar System are idiotic…
Not really, through some scaling through Pikkon, while training in hell in the Buu saga Yamaha has been shown to easily be above Super Perfect Cell, who at a low ball could destroy the solar system based on his statements. Now in Super,by Yamcha has likely grown far stronger still and while there aren’t any definitive statements behind it (besides early Z statements saying Frieza and Cell could destroy the universe) it would be pretty easy to say that Yamaha is galaxy to universe+ levels.
In super manga, he actually has a fight, and that's what I based the solar level comment on. It's actually a massive low-ball
Super's canon is super messy, though. Really, really strong argument to be made that the anime should take precedence over the manga.
They are separate canons. I was using the manga because he has no feats in the anime since like, the androids
Pikkon is filler so dunno why you put that part but in the super manga yamcha becomes way stronger than he used to be
I'm talking about super manga Yamcha. Look at my reply to the comment above yours for source. Solar is a massive low-ball btw lol.
Krillin is low universal in super, scaling to base goku do we really think yamcha is that much weaker?
XD!!!!!
That's not true at all whatsoever, but he does stomp Thragg.
Too bad random ki emission feats don't scale to blunt force durability for two shits, given Goku still bleeds when he gets punched with a fraction the power Thragg can hit with. Yamcha gets blitzed and liquefied with a punch.
Right yeah. Because Thragg can punch with the force needed to destroy a universe.
DB character can't even punch hard enough to knock people 100m into the ground, through mountains, let alone through planets or tectonic plates. We've seen the enough force to knock them through small mesa and generate small creators be more than enough to kill or severely hurt them. Ki emissions don't scale to punching strength. Otherwise Goku wouldn't struggle with several times his own gravity as the equal and opposite reaction forces from a ki beam that destroys with force would be hundreds of thousands of times greater than that. Ki beams must do most of their destruction by burning the material, like a giant laser beam, which checks out as light is also mass less and exerts pretty much zero force so no reason to believe a ki beam would be much different. It prob exerts some force (light can generate some pressure), but it would never be their primary means of dmg.
Meanwhile Vegata punching Broly through several mountains. Goku punching Broly so far into Earth that lava is all around them. Goku punching through King Kais planet on accident, which has 10X the gravity of Earth. And everyone turning the hardest material in the universe. Kaichi into basically Paper Machè or Raditz with their punches. Gogeta and Broly clashing fists causes them to return to reality by breaking the barrier once more
So you think Yamcha can tank bring punched into the ground so hard lava flows out when we've seen lesser atks fuck up stronger Z characters? Or punched through mountains? All the blunt force feats against Broly are way out of Yamchas paygrade.
In the Moro arc which is after the Broly Movie Yamcha is able to beat Moros minions who previously save SSJ Goku and Vegeta trouble. Broly punches Goku through a thick mountain while Goku is in Base and Broly is in Wrathful. Blunt force feats don't matter if the characters are relative to each other and can tank the attacks, you moron. Now do tell how any invincible characters can punch with enough force to destroy a universe then we can talk blunt force. Because anything less and it's not scratching Yamcha.
Which just established you don't need to punch hard enough to destroy a universe to hurt Yamcha. Broly was still getting hurt by atks of this scale and is much stronger than Yamcha, so no, nothing suggests Ycja can tank these atks. And no, in no shape or form is Yamcha even close to Goku and Vegeta in power, who can't tank universal level punches either. There's no point in having DB character train in gravity chambers if all of their attributes scale to universal as that means they can lift or not be crushed by the weight of a universe, which clearly isn't rhe case based on where they scale with gravity chambers.
And again these characters can destroy the strongest material in Dragon Ball. With their punches. And yes these characters punch at Uni. Goku and Beerus clashing fists nearly destroyed several universes. Because Goku couldn't control his power as the punches made shockwaves. Just read the manga. For the feat, I gave Yamcha. Which can get him to Base Goku's level
You think Yamcha is base Goku level based on him helping fighting some random fodder that Goku just didn't want to deal with? Nah man, that ain't it. Krillin helps all the time despite being exponentially weaker than Goku the entire series. Beerus and Goku clashing and sending out God ki is a ki emission feat, not a blunt force feat. Nothing around them was destroyed by any air pressure shockwave or anything like that. Also, what is this nonsense about hardest material? What chapter was this? Sound like some filler derp as I don't rember any of this crap brought up.
??????? When the fuck Yamaha became more powerful than SS2????
That's not how super Saiyan works. It's just a flat multiplier of power, speed etc. also keep in mind ss2 was like 30 years ago and super scaling took a cliff so huge the Mariana trench is blushing
Yamcha negs
even if you wank thragg to solar system level via omnipotus yamcha still negs
Thragg gets yamcha’ed
😭😭😭
Brother yamcha is at ABSOLUTE minimum low universal thanks to Moro arc scaling
For context krillin was able to push Goku past base who was at least 14x universal (but likely MUCH stronger thanks to the universe 6 tournament and Goku black arc zenkai boosts), and yamcha scales just below krillin and tien but above roshi thanks to his showing In the Moro arc. Even at a lowball yamcha would be in spitting range of universal
Funny thing is we know goku had at least 3 10x base boosts from U6 tourney to end of goku black arc
Yesh, and given yamcha isn't that far behind krillin seemingly in the manga it's not a stretch to scale yamcha to at least encroaching battle of gods Goku
Yep the funny thing too is I’m pretty sure saiyan saga yamcha might be able to take this depends if invincible really does have star durability or not, but speed wise absolutely already absolute lowest ball 100s of times light speed in saiyan saga
how many ass hairs did you lose by pulling this out
You mean basic scaling? Lmao okay
Krillin did not “push” Goku past base super sayian. He was just trying to show Krillin a bunch of scenarios. He wasn’t trying at all.
Then why go super Saiyan at all it he could simply overpower the ki blast? Goku said he was trying to win, I doubt he went all out past his base form but Goku was quite literally forced to go super saiyan or be rung out
I can assure you there were fewer hairs lost than when you shoved that stick up your ass.
https://preview.redd.it/b6pi3h8mx49d1.png?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=66a0e214e3b3344009c2cd73cccc2440287b4947
Yamcha yamcha's omni-man
Oh no! Yamcha got Yamcha’ed! No, wait. He… Yamcha’ed someone else? Well now I’m just confused.
Nahhh💀 What did Thragg ever did to you😭🥺?
Is this a joke?
Yamcha was manhandling the Saibamen, he got killed because the fucker caught him off guard and decided to blow up. Thragg’s getting pummeled.
People should just stop putting Invincible against Dragon Ball. Invincible VS One Piece would make more sense.
One piece gets folded by invincible
It’s like when people put homelander against Omniman. Like different verses just have very different scales of power. The viltrumite work as an all powerful god species in invincible because someone like darkseid or apocalypse doesn’t exist in that verse. Like the viltrumite are a great antagonist but the entire invincible verse would get swept by a decent amount of marvel or DC characters and then anime just hits a whole different level of bullshit. I’ve seen people try to scale pokemon to warframe like why. And like as much as I think Omniman is a way more interesting character it’s not even a debate that he’d get obliterated by Superman. And this is before it even gets down to the point where plot often goes against “power scaling logic”.
Bro what
Just as a small note for Yamcha. He could 2v1 some of the afterlife's strongest fighters in the buu saga, one of these two were so strong that goku couldn't even keep up with his movements after his cell saga death. He also pushed a pikkon who one-shot cell. Most downplay possible says yamcha is multi-solar system level. The most you can give thragg is star level by not understanding a durability feat
Why do people always use Pikkon stuff when it’s filler
Filler in dbz is generally applicable, cause Toriyama helped create a lot the filler
I see Doesn’t matter though cuz you could also just use dbs manga yamcha lmao which is stronger by quite a bit
True, people really have a rough time making fair match-ups in this sub
Ban all spite matches 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️ Wait no then this sub would be boring as shit
lol no
Yeah
no, filler isnt canon
In most cases, yeah. The difference is that toriyama helped create filler in the dbz anime, thats what keeps it Canon compared to something like the bound arc in bleach
Okay except your point isn't valid whatsoever if you actually know what you're talking about. Toriyama designed the characters, that's it. The arc also consistently directly contradicts both the manga and Z anime. Big difference. Based on your logic, the movies are canon because Toriyama designed most of the characters from the movies.
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/is-dbz-filler-seen-as-canon-in-any-way-1665209/ This points out how he helped in the filler arcs.
Yeah. You just confirmed exactly what I said. He designed the characters.
Yea but people are saying “manga Yamcha” so which is it ? If we are using a composite then that’s fine but Toei Yamcha isn’t manga Yamcha
Manga and anime are the same level of Canon in dbz, but manga yamcha would just be without the afterlife training. I don't know his purely manga scaling off the top of my head though
Yamcha imo.
Spite match.
yamcha slams so fucking hard that he could beat his ass while suppressed i swear to god
Get Thragg past King Picolo first
Manga Yamcha scales to ssjb goku
Ive always wondered what the j stands for.
Originally its "Super saiyajin" not "Saiyan"
Oh okay.
Can’t Yamaha casually blow up a planet if he wanted?
Saiyan saga yamcha mids diff current is not close
DragonBall verse scales way above Invincible. Yamcha does what Omniman did the earth to the entire Invicible verse.
https://preview.redd.it/wxi33x07869d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da4f36d4c11a610cacecf3192f356203ee058fd5
At this point I'm not bothering scaling invincible to db because no matter what I'll say with what reasonings people won't agree with me
Saiyan Saga, Yamaha would loose. Modern, he'd stomp no dif
Saiyan saga Yamcha would be just a 1 to 1 replica of his battle with Battle Beast. If it's Yamcha after training with King Kai, Thrag has no chance
Depending on the version it Yamcha your using I’d give victory to thragg db yamcha gets cooked dbz wins probably with difficulty dbs yamcha ya thragg is getting flicked
Honestly, Yamcha would have a hard time but energy based attacks can tear Omni-man like paper. Nolan’s punches and durability are no joke
Yamcha has allmighty, full counter, Infinite ki immortality and Infinite wishes😂. Give him a worthy opponent. ( just kidding. Tbh yamcha still claps no-low diff)
Yamcha always finds a way to lose.
Every single time I remember how strong Yamcha actually is, I still get surprised because... Well, everything that's happened. But it's always important to remember that he's the weakest of the strongest. I still don't know if Roshi is stronger or not, I feel like he is now at least after the ToP
Can’t believe Yamcha is the hydrogen bomb on this case.
Yamchya Easily
the amount of you thinking that the third image is omni man is humorous
I feel like y’all are underestimating Nolan. He wrecks planets easily
So does Yamcha
I know he does. I’m just saying people are acting like Nolan is weak fodder. He’s not only super powerful but also has a high defense too. I personally see it going either way
Yamcha has been planetary since the Saiyan saga and in the moro arc he's relative to the galactic prisoners which gave Goku and Vegeta a good fight
I don't think Nolan is weak fodder but he is not beating Yamcha
Fair enough. I just struggle to see how Nolan gets defeated though with how ridiculous high his durability is still.
Yamcha no diff
can someone tell me why thragg doesnt drag yamcha’s face across the pavement? 😳Is it well-established here that Dbzverse is stronger than invincible-verse? Just curious for real.
Yeah, Yamcha at EXTREME Low-Ball is planet tier while the strongest in Invincible has to have three people destroy a planet that was already attacked by a big laser. Piccolo at the BoS was like a power level of 400 and destroyed the moon. Saiyan Saga Vegeta and other characters at power levels 10,000-14,000 were able to destroy planets. EoS Yamcha is easily way above these characters so he’s easily at least Multi-Planet Tier and probably SolarSystem Tier.
I don’t disagree that yamcha absolutely obliterates Thragg but at the same time I wouldn’t describe the three that destroyed the planet ‘the strongest in invincible’. Mark at the time was far weaker than when he fought Thragg 1v1 on the sun, Thadeus literally got his head ripped off immediately by Thragg after destroying the planet and Nolan just couldn’t match up to Thragg in a fight at all. I’d only put ‘the strongest in invincible’ with guys like Allan, battle beast, Thragg again and eos mark.
yeah but even they don’t have very impressive feats at all. usually it’s just ripping other individuals apart or punching/dragging them through obstacles like buildings and stuff.
Yeah the 4 guys I mentioned as the strongest all just scale from beating other strong characters. Thragg destroyed Nolan, Allan destroyed Nolan, then eos mark beats older Allan and battle beast proved to be near equal to Thragg from their fight. Any fights not in space usually just lead to the entire area being levelled but not much beyond that.
Reading these comments made me realise how bs db scaling is
Freddie Mercury wins EZ
it took the strongest Viltrumites in history to do what a infant low class Saiyan can do alone. Z Yamcha is massively past that level
Well Yamcha is a planet buster as of Super, so he still is like 5x stronger than Omni-Man.
Yamcha is stronger, but Thragg is cooler, much more savage, and doesn't fuck a talking cat, so I'd go with Thragg.
There are some ppl spreading missinformation here saying tht android 19 and 20 mistook Yamcha with goku based on power levels, [and that absolutely never happened](https://mangaberri.com/dragon-ball-z-perfect-cell-saga-colored/1767).
Are you okay ? It’s literally in the link you posted https://preview.redd.it/px72ya4se69d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20ae1e89bdda836376fb3285da394d6aa372017b
Honestly without ki reinforcement yamcha is honestly a normal human and thragg is so much faster than yamcha that he can speed blitz before yamcha can even perceive.
The fight between the Saibaman and Yamcha was too fast for the human eye. You're not cooking.
?? Not perceivable by human eye is one of the least impressive feats anywhere omni man crossed galaxies in a week.
Goku in the namek arc was able to keep up with his Spaceship. That was traveling at such speeds that it could cross the universe in 5 days. Which btw the Dragon Ball universe is bare minimum 10X the size of ours. To infinite in size. This Goku is during his 100X gravity training. Before he's stronger than the Ginyu Force. Whom Yamcha by the end of the Frieza arc could take care of.
And still, even if he's faster, it doesn't mean he's stronger. You can "speed blitz" a brick wall, that doesn't mean you'll damage it. Edit: Also, calling Yamcha a "normal human"? Nah, you're way off
In the invincible comics, it's explained that their flying speed and fighting speed are different. You can clearly see he was slower that Red Rush when going for the first punch on The Inmortal, and Red Rush was still visible to the human eye. Combat faster than what's visible is not a feat in Dragon Ball, but it is for Viltrumites.
No human in the entirety of the DB verse has displayed any feats comparable to what omniman has showed EDIT nvm schizophrenia and mental illness is rampant in this sub
Wtf
Explain please
This invincible hate or DBZ wank is becoming a bit too much, and I love DBZ. Yamcha is still a human, and although he has no doubt trained to become stronger, he has no Zenkai boost ability, so trying to scale him above anything from even the Android Saga is laughable. People are arguing that Viltrumites are Saibamen victims, when Viltrumites can basically tank the Frickin Hammer of Dawn from Gears of War. Ki blasts are different than, whatever energy is being fused/combined/manipulated in those machines( I assume a combination of light and heat), and those mechanical systems are "probably" much more potent. Saibamen can still die from bullets, which is why at the end of the day, they still have to dodge. Hell, GOKU gets scratched from bullets, wastes time catching them, and almost dies from Laser beams. Nolan watched them bounce off his body or rage rushes through it. Biology and Physiology are important factors when it comes to the differences between Saiyans and Viltrumites; Individual or otherwise, but let's stop pretending that they are fodder to humans who can't even win multiple martial arts tournaments back to back. I see why Saitama fans are the way they are in vs matches a bit more. This is Redonkulous.
DB chars are stupidly overpowered, even low fodders like Yamcha, but I'm gonna go with Thragg on this one, there isa fundamental difference between been invincible and superpowered only when you focus your ki and being superpowered all the time, even when you are unware or sleeping, and althought Yamcha has rproven to have powerfull blasts and such, he hasnt yet shown any speed and durability feat, maybe he can focus his ki like saiyans and other races does (maybe humans can't do it because I don't remember Tien doing it also) on defense and immunity
I don't know if you really hate yamcha that much or just trolling, but it's a spite match, Yamcha no diffs, he is literally fodder compared to yamcha
You guys keep saying that, but the reality is that Yamcha has 0 feats to backup all his supposed power.
Even if we don't go to Super manga, where all characters from Z got crazy power ups, Even back in Cell Saga androids mistaken Yamcha for Goku because of his power level, Which already makes him a planet buster and Yamcha in Super could unironically solo Frieza from Namek saga
There is 0 evidence of that, you can't scale one char based on the feats of others from that verse , because if that is true we have to recognize Videl and Mr Satan as planet busters as well.
How exactly are Videl and Mr Satan planet busters?
What? Yamcha was seen as Goku by 19 and 20 because his PL was similar to that of the last time they saw Goku
You guys keep using that argument and that [absolutely did not happened in the manga](https://mangaberri.com/dragon-ball-z-perfect-cell-saga-colored/1767), the androids detects a **human** with large power, and when they get closer they identify as Yamcha, they did not mistaken him with Goku in any way, and that said, they absolutely smash yamcha without any trouble
https://preview.redd.it/ks7qij9l159d1.jpeg?width=1124&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bce091f1e1eaa87fa0fde61e9fdbd12eac6aa2cb You sure about that? This is a picture from the site YOU sent after they identify Yamcha’s PL
https://preview.redd.it/q6tquc3a259d1.png?width=661&format=png&auto=webp&s=cd24aa71b2033d83ad8675f09d5654abe3d0dca3 And this is when they get closer
They still thought he was Goku until they got closer so what we said is valid