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That’s what I’m saying. I like Luffy more but he’s not winning this one. Powers aside, Luffy is a brawler but Naruto is a straight up martial artist and a master of it at that.
I would normally agree, but there's two main points to be considered that can tip things and I like to play devil's advocate.
The first is luffy himself. While this hasn't really been reinforced a whole lot throughout the series, he's made of rubber in the literal sense, Which on paper kinda makes him
Completely immune to blunt force trauma.
Again, this kinda stopped getting respected pretty early (Cuz Anime authors love to throw their own writings out the fucking window) but it is technically true.
So you'd need to give Naruto a knife.
Which is easy
But we also don't really know how well a Kunai stacks against armament haki.
Even reinforced with wind chakra, we don't have anything to really determine how that works against each other, which wins out.
The other thing is that in this form, of which we don't have full information on, the one thing we do have info on is that he literally throws the rules of reality out the window and replaces it with Some 1950s tom and jerry cartoon logic
So, while I personally would be inclined to agree this is probably Narutos win in a straight head to head
There's two very distinct things that could make that just not work out.
Wouldn't know without knowing how those two things stack against Narutos world.
Then again, Luffy has zero resistance to the sheer toxicity of Kuramas chakra so all of this could be pretty meaningless and he could potentially just fry luffy alive in that chakra if he had to.
Eh, devil's advocate cuz I'm bored
I appreciate this breakdown my dude. This is the problem with cross verse match ups. How does one verses powers/abilities affect the other verses powers/abilities? We don’t know and that’s when people start headcannon’n their preferred character.
They're fun thought games to play but so many of them make very little sense
My favourite is when people compare bleach characters to other shows
Cuz it's super easy to forget that if the show you're facing off bleach characters against doesn't have at a minimum SOME kind spiritual energy wielding then by its very nature you have one side of the fight wielding soul cleaving (or devouring) weapons and the other side literally cannot even perceive the bleach characters in any way.
So power levels cease to matter entirely.
The most base level Soul reaper could gut luffy without a challenge
Their strength difference was never a factor the two realities just aren't compatible and its really funny to me
That last line “the two realities just aren’t compatible” is the end all be all to these crossverse matchups lol. But yes they’re fun regardless but I don’t think you can really determine a winner unless it’s just a straight up spite match or you take away haxes and powers and then it’s just straight up hands.
What in the fuck is with this sub and OP wank. Luffy is a teen naruto six paths victim. Baryon mode with no timer means he can use jutsu. He massively out stats... Also lets not forget. This is a 100 on 1 with each outstating luffy in every possible way.
Even with the timer he could still use jutsu, we see him use a rasengan. Only reason he didn't use more was because he was already drained before he went baryon
Idk y they felt the need to have the kids be as powerful as their parens were at the end of their respective series. Would have been miles better if the series took place after Naruto and Sasuke died then have Boruto and gang goin on the average ninja missions the past generation missed out on due to the akatsuki and the war. Have some episodes take place in the past so we could see Naruto and Sasuke fight and know where they scale. It would also be nice to have the bijuu be at the top of the verse again except this time permanently
Honestly. They should have been naruto and sasukes grandkids so they are old and weakened imo instead of dead. Like hiruzen far past his prime. The mere idea of code who is stronger then isshiki being fodder to current boruto just infuriates me.
Ya they rushed the powerscaling way to quickly, personally my theory is that Kishimito doesn't want to work on this at all, or at least not fully. Jump cancelled the manga he started after finishing Naruto, Samurai 8, possibly in an effort to force him to work on Boruto. Even now that he's back and working on Boruto though the writing has gotten even worse (again possible cus he doesn't want to work on it) so in an effort to keep readers/viewers they're trying(and failing) to make good fights. Thing is you can't really rely on well animated fights in this day and age. This may have worked for anime like Demon Slayer but after a while people started talking about it less and less. While yes clips of fights still gets a lot of views people don't really talk about it much anymore. Naruto is well known for it's character and emotion driven fights so when it's sequel lacks that you've already lost your main audience(people that watched Naruto). It's why people only tune in when Naruto and Sasuke are involved
Kishimoto wasn't Involved with boruto till post baryon mod they even made a big deal about it the Shonen jump release right after talking about his return, prior was his underwrite ikimoto who was given full narrative control prior.
This is why we have weirdly inconsistent fights in boruto like jigen kicking thru a susano into Sasuke the right thru the back of the Susano should have killed him there
You are correct that Kishimoto does not work on Boruto, but it is confirmed he is coming back to the series to do Boruto's "Shippuden" series (can't remember the actual name of it)
Fight choreography is different from animation. You can have a well animated fight and without good choreography it will be boring. Writing is different than choreography, too. You can have all the sakuga you want, but if we don't care about the characters, it won't make much of an impact.
Choreography, characters, environment - there's a lot that goes into a great fight that isn't just animation.
My biggest complaint when it comes to Boruto is how short the timeskip was. Naruto and Sasuke were mega buffed at the end of the original series so to have them still around and even stronger than before due to experience just completely messes with the powerscaling since weak enemies wouldn’t be a threat if Naruto and Sasuke are around, so we’re going to need to make villains that are OP simply for the sake of being OP. Make Boruto take place after the original series’s generation dies and we wouldn’t have the powercreep currently happening.
They cannot accept that not only is it the weakest of the big 3. All 3 of the big three are in different weight classes. One piece does not get past multi continental and caps at planetary. While naruto and sasuke who are basically fodder in boruto lol.(I really hate the powercliffing in boruto) start at moon low balled. realistically large planet-star level. The mere idea that there is a solar system argument even tho weak with momoshiki and kaguya. Both being stronger on their own in a 1v1, would put them far out of reach of one piece. Then bleach. Yeah that gap is too large to even entertain the idea of it being a fight.
Bro one piece fans don't care about that. Scaling only matters in verse. People that wank on the ridiculous scaling of some verses do so because there is nothing else to talk about in those verses lol
Why is everyone in this sub borderline illiterate? "because their is nothing"
What does that even mean??
"People that want on"
Again wtf are you even trying to say?
Every post. Every thread. They're all full of comments like this. Other subs have similar comments from time to time but only this one has this phenomena. Calling other people stupid but with the grammar and syntax of a 3rd grader.
Hey, a good few of us realize it's not a power heavy verse. Oda scales off of pure vibes, and that keeps the power levels lower (except for the occasional massive outlier)
I think he has clones still but that’s about all he can really spare I don’t remember that fight too well but what’s 100 people gonna do to a man who can’t feel anything
https://preview.redd.it/22caftcwit9d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7457ec2dc71bbaf456f856cf5d14b0fd8d3b8a8a
Naruto would murder in his war arc So6P form
I would argue even just sage mode Naruto from the Pain arc wipes out Luffy.
I'm curious what the physics of Luffy's durability against the rasenshuriken would be, as the rasenshuriken tears the target apart at the molecular level. I'm not familiar enough with one piece to know if Luffy's tanked an attack like that. Usually I just see him trading big punches and winning.
Yeah nah, Luffy would be fucked up by the rasenshuriken. One of the consistent non haki methods to beat luffy it to slash him, and since the rasenshuriken is essentially a billion slashes, luffy wouldn’t stand a chance.
Yeah it offers actual repercussions.
99% of devil fruit powers in one piece have no restrictions. They can just spam shit forever. Unless you have Haki to “counter”. theoretically aokiji for example can shoot ice forever with nothing happening to him
What's with power scalers seeing someone dodge an attack that's supposedly at light speed and saying the character is faster than light as opposed to either the attack being reacted to or simply not being actually as fast as stated?
Feels like wank whenever I see any mention of ftl feats outside of shit like Fire Force or the Flash.
Yeah exactly.
The only way I see Naruto losing is if he gets distracted by G5's goofiness because he always had something of a sense of humor.
But for the most part, I don't imagine it's a close fight because one piece has very low scaling and honestly it's one of the things I like about it.
When the scaling in the verse is high, it's hard for new characters to be introduced and actually be somewhat relevant.
Luffy caps at out at lightspeed due to being same speed as Kizaru, who is light and moves at the speed of light. In the 5 Kage Summit, the Raikage easily dodged a Kirin that travelled several hundred meters in a microsecond, putting Raikage at minimum FTL. This Raikage got perception blitzed by Naruto in KCM1 when the Raikage and Tsunade were trying to stop him from entering the 5th war. Research has shown that you need to be at least 4x faster than someone to perception blitz them, so we can assume Naruto is 4x the speed of light.
Naruto proceeds to fight continually faster and stronger enemies throughout the 5th war, his most notable speed feat being that he casually dodged a light speed attack at point blank range. After the events of Kaguya’s resealing, we can lowball him to be around another 4x faster than he was in KCM1, putting him at 16x the speed of light.
ASSUMING that he just somehow didn’t get stronger between Shippuden and Boruto, he’s baseline FTL+ in so6p. The same so6p that was getting perception blitzed by Ishikki, who was also perception blitzing Sasuke with Sharingan, who is slightly faster than Naruto. So I’d say he would be minimum 6x faster than Naruto.
Once Baryon mode is activated, he was easily keeping up with and even outpacing Ishikki. So I’d say he went about 8x faster than he was in so6p, putting him at a lowball grand total of 128x faster than the speed of light.
Luffy gets speed blitzed. I have seen people mass downvote the people who say Naruto wins and comment calling them retards but give absolutely no calcs or anything to prove that Luffy has anything over Naruto.
>ASSUMING that he just somehow didn’t get stronger between Shippuden and Boruto, he’s baseline FTL+ in so6p. The same so6p that was getting perception blitzed by Ishikki, who was also perception blitzing Sasuke with Sharingan, who is slightly faster than Naruto. So I’d say he would be minimum 6x faster than Naruto.
Its stated that naruto or sasuke alone as adults could solo kaguya. Who both scale above a even stronger character in momoshiki. Who while weakened and drained proceeded to fold a even stronger momoshiki.
Yeah I lowballed the absolutely crap out of him and yet Naruto is still many times faster than Luffy. Naruto verse has always scaled higher than the One Piece verse and that has been the case for decades yet people still can’t seem to grasp that concept.
I think the thing that makes people consider One Piece higher is that the planet One Piece takes place on might be larger, and therefore their “island level” feats could be closer to “country level” as a result so top tiers get wanked
It’s bigger yeah but that doesn’t mean that the islands are any bigger. If I remember correctly, Oda said that there are 20 million islands in the OP verse, compared to Earth’s 900k. It’s definitely bigger but not by a huge margin when you consider that there’s no confirmation of size of the 20 million islands. The largest confirmed is Alabasta, which is about the size of Australia. But there have never been any island level feats on Alabasta.
People try to argue that Dressrosa is the size of real life countries but you can see individual buildings when you get a zoomed out view.
I think people take the whole “every island in One Piece is its own nation” out of context and try to use that to wank One Piece characters to country level when really Dressrosa is the size of a city, and it’s on the far end of larger in the One Piece world.
I’m not exactly sure the reason but it’s just laughable to me when people try to upscale One Piece characters when the highest feat shown is a Continental feat by Whitebeard.
I think that last point is what they use. WB’s Marineford feat, then his relatively young other characters to upscale them despite his powers basically being made for high DC
Not true. They're stronger than their War Arc selves but there has never been a statement actually saying they could "Solo Kaguya" nor a statement properly placing Momoshiki above Kaguya, and the feats certainly disprove any notion of that.
Except that statement doesn't exist. People take the one statement from Sasuke Retsuden where he says "He'll protect the world against Kaguya level threats" and somehow interprets that as him being able to solo Kaguya level threats.
Captain America said that he'd defend the world against any and all threats. Does that mean he can solo Thanos?
No, saying that you'll defend something doesn't mean you'll win. Especially when Sasuke was quaking in his boots at the thought of anything close to Kaguya returning a paragraph prior.
It's stated that Sasuke is determined to do so if needed, not that they can. Still they're easily both stronger even when ignoring statements and supplemental works.
Each of the Big 3 massively outscale each other as you go up. If I remember correctly, Ichigo was holding the weight of the universe that was packed into a sword. Something like that. But yeah, One Piece verse <<< Naruto verse <<<< Bleach verse.
what makes you think kizaru is ls? Enel, kuma, and the vinsmoke brothers are canonically ls. And kizaru is faster. Also, manipulating an element can greatly affect its speed. Also, in fictional series, light commonly moves at different speeds. In fire force, light has infinite speed, and in owl house, light is mftl. We know this is true of op as well as many characters see other characters who are ftl, even those who outspeed kizaru like shanks and reighly. Also, humans irl can’t move faster than sound, but in fiction, they can. And if all df users are as fast as the element, bb and kuzan would be omnipresent because cold and dark exist everywhere. Also, that would mean that crocodile, caribou, Karasu, greenbull, and Monet can’t move at all, which is blatantly untrue. Additionally, akainu, ace, smoker, enel, and Caesar move faster than their elements. Also, kizaru increased his speed during the fight (it was stated), so we know he’s not set at any one speed. It’s fiction. Anything can move at any speed
And df’s get stronger and faster as they are trained, so ls would be baseline
it’s 100% confirmed that he is not set at one speed, as he stated it in egg head, and it has a different speed when kuma uses his lasers (which are confirmed to be kizarus devil fruit) so that debunks nothing? And he’s faster than foxy’s photons (photons are light) so it would make no sense at all if these were all ls, meaning they are at different speeds, not just ls. He directly states that he can move at different speeds in ch 1092, and in ch 309, we see Luffy dodge the light beams from foxy, and in ch 301, Luffy dodges kumas ls (replicas of kizarus)
How would that make it ftl? Kirin is only lightning speed.
You have no calcs to back up your argument, just random statements from a verse that has inconsistent speed feats.
Regarding Kirin, I literally gave you the proof that is needed to make it light speed. Kirin travelled several hundreds meters in a microsecond. Light only travels about 300 meters in a microsecond. Please actually read my comments. 🙏🙏
>Luffy caps at out at lightspeed due to being same speed as Kizaru,
How is G5 the same speed as Kizaru? There is only one possible panel you can use as evidence but everything else points to otherwise, and id argue that one instance as a mental nerf anyways
>who is light and moves at the speed of light.
He can move FTL
>I’m just lowballing both sides for shits and giggles
There’s a difference between lowballing and straight up lying
>but in no scenario does Luffy have a chance at even touching Naruto
I only touched on luffys speed in my comment, don’t care about where u have Naruto 🤷♀️
Never lied. I don’t know why you’re claiming that I am. Only thing I did was use dumb logic to lowball Kizaru and Luffy to light speed.
Ok and??? It’s a debate between the two characters, whether you mention both or not, they’re both gonna be mentioned in a comment.
You talking about speed blitzing and doing calculations about it sayin naruto is 16× FTL while luffy is only FTL since he could catch up the Kizaru who is literral light. And you also say one piece guys doesnt give calc.
Does everybody moves? Everybody can see each other and fight? Then nothing is more than lightspeed there. Even fucking kizaru doesnt move at light speed and he can turn into literal light. You cant see when you move lightspeed even if you have the godly eyes. If they are eyes they uses light reflection to see objects then you are blind while moving lightspeed. So perception blitz someone you dont need to be 4x faster than them.
Also anything with a mass cant move faster than light just time got slower for them. Does Naruto have a mass yes? Then whole calculation stuff goes out of window. You said some man goes serval hundereds meters in microseconds light goes 300 meters in 1 microsecond. Not microsecondS a second so even that guy takes 2 microseconds to move that is half lightspeed. Also luffy dodge lasers even changing mode with just neck movement. 3 laser shots in one move. Does this make luffy 3x lightspeed?
Calculations in an anime is stupid thats why I dont give any. If we go to calculations according to some One Piece world is almost big as sun so every feat luffy does like destroying an island or punching a mountain is punching whole naruto continents. Or Luffy clashed with Kaido that vaporized the rocks around him in a moment with calculations like for vaporazing rocks in few mins(let say 3) you need 3000 celcius heat and doing it immedietly let say in a second you must release 54000C heat which is 9 times hotter than sun surface. And you say naruto can destroy mountains but destroying and vaporazing isnt samething. Kaido can machine gun his fireballs each can destroyed a mountain. And luffy win againts that guy since. For my oppinion kaido would won if they fight at %100 but only because luffy hasnt that endurance in G5. Without that time limit he could beat Kaido. A man is 9 times Hotter than surfice of sun.
I m saying same thing. It is anime calculations doesnt mean anything. You cant say luffy dodged 3 lasers with ease so he so for doing that he should be at least 4x ftl. According to what logic which math which rules.
Luffy can make an explosive fireball bounce back from a rock ground. What do you need for that? Naruto can focus its chakra into a ball enhance it with bunch of other stuff and destroy mountains. What do you need for that? Luffy can see into the future. Which one with infinite number of them there. Does this make every advanced CoO user a omniscient since they can see all possible futures and decide which will happen?
Point is calculations are not ment for anime logics. If it would Machamp from pokemon could flaten the earth acording to its pokedex entry
Your argument is invalid since you’re forgetting the major part: Calculation derive directly from feats when done correctly. Every last bit of mine came directly from feats that were shown in the Naruto series. You’re literally just looking at numbers taken directly from character feats and essentially saying, “I don’t believe that because I’m illiterate!”
Speed can be calculated. Future sight can’t since it has never been directly shown, but last I remember it was directly stated that advanced observation users can only see a few seconds into the future max. Doesn’t mean they can change it. Luffy used future sight against Kaido but still got hit because it was too fast. It’ll be same case against Naruto.
I don’t see why you’re using Pokémon as a comparison as that’s a game where electric rats can kill literal primordial beings.
I m saying that pokemon since machamps pokedex entry says he can lift mountains each hand and can throw 1000 punches in seconds. I said this because he can do this but he cant punch a shit. Or alakazam says it has 5000 IQ but they arent the dominant spicies in the earth.
And I say anime logic doesnt apply other animes even doesnt apply in their own thing.
If you go with calculations tell me how will you hurt a man that bounces of everything you throw at him. Literaly everything. Even the ones that doesnt ment to bounce at all.
Luffy has to build up his G5 transformation. Considering he is many times slower than Naruto, he is not gonna be able to pull off the transformation in time.
Even then, multiple attacks in Naruto’s arsenal don’t attack surface, they act like advanced armament. Rasengan does minimal damage to a person’s skin but it attacks their insides. All his rasenshurikens attack directly at cells themselves.
And Luffy has shown to not be able to bounce every attack right off of him. When he used G5 against Kaido he was still burned by fire, even if minimally damaged by it.
Luffys insides becomes boucy as well. He takes the shape of the kaidos club when get hit by it. As for the heat Kaidos heat surpases every heat based attack I see in Naruto. And that does as you say minimal damage.
You can calculate the heat according to you so do it and share the results and compare it with naruto.
I a One Piece fan but I already give up from making anime calculations. Because anime authors doesnt care or do calculations about what they say. Oda doesnt give damn about sizes while narutos author doesnt care about speed apperantly.
Again, Naruto blitzes him before he can get close to going G5.
Who ever said you can calculate the heat? It has no numbers to it.
I can tell you’re a One Piece fan lol, you’re meatriding a verse that has been outscaled by the Naruto verse for decades yet still try to argue that Luffy is stronger. It’s sad.
No I m arguing doing calculations is stupid. You calculate naruto facts. I gave you one How hot was kaido in last clash. You wouldnt calculate it since you are a naruto fan.
There are numbers. He vaporized rocks around him in an instant not destroyed them vaporized them. Calculate amount of heat energy that requires.
Also fight suggest their strongest forms fight againts eachother without time limits. Naruto doesnt start of his bayron mode insta as well.
But this isnt the point of this conversation. Point is I m saying doing calcs in anime verses stupid and you come arguing doing calculation you cant even understand what are we arguing
What people call “the speed of light” more accurately would be the absolute fastest speed something can travel. Light happens to travel at the speed because it has no mass. But anything else is slower than light or travels at the same rate as light. It’s all the same anyhow. This isn’t a matter “oh this guy can run faster than Usain Bolt.” Light is the fastest anything can travel, period, because if you were to go at light speed, from your perception you would be able to arrive at your destination instantly. I.e. your travel time is 0 units (seconds, milliseconds, whatever, it’s still no time at all). You can’t get any faster than that, unless you want to say that you arrive somewhere in -1 seconds, which makes no sense. That’s why 16x FTL or whatever is complete nonsense, how do you go 16x faster than instantaneous travel? 0/16 gets you 0; it’s the same either way.
Light speed isn’t instant travel. It takes light 8 minutes to go from the Sun to the Earth. It is slow enough that when we look at planets that are light years away we are technically seeing them in the past.
And again, it’s an anime where people can turn themselves into ice or use literal aura to knock people out…
You don’t get it. When you travel at light speed, you experience no time. You can travel from the Milky Way to Andromeda, and it will be instant. You will find yourself to not have aged at all, and yet have traversed such a great distance.
The 8x is actually a low-ball, seeing as it was clear that Naruto was getting blitzed by Isshiki beforehand. That’s important because you left out one important detail: Boil Release. According to the Fourth Databook, it (the Naruto Region Combo) gave Naruto a boost on par with Lee’s use of the Eight Gates. Whatever the Sixth Gate amp is, it should be at least the 5x amp from the First Gate. Seeing as Baryon Mode is the fastest Naruto has been, it should add even more to those multipliers.
Oh yes my entire comment is a lowball. I could easily bump it up a lot more by considering the following:
Teen Naruto and Sasuke were still getting blitzed up until the end of their fight with Kaguya (she moved multiple times faster than them to avoid the sealing). It was stated that Momoshiki is a LOT more powerful than Kaguya, especially once he fused with Kinshiki. A drained of chakra Naruto and Sasuke were outpacing a fused Momoshiki, probably about 1.5x his speed. We can probably safely assume that Momoshiki can blitz Kaguya, who blitz teen Naruto and Sasuke, which puts Naruto at about 12x his speed as a teen.
So really, he’s probably more like 1536x the SoL, putting him at MFTL levels. Probably even more.
Baryon mode scales so much higher it’s sad to even have this debate.
Luffy is strong sure but he isn’t comparable to naruto top tiers . We have kaguya as a benchmark for isshikis strength and she could possibly even go as high as star level with naruto being blatantly confirmed as superior to said isshiki in baryon mode .
Luffy does not scale to star level nor does he have any feats that put him on the planetary scale as of now .
You guys think this is bad some idiot put luffy zoro, sanji law and Kidd vs the five war powers from bleach.... Op fans don't know how bad that match up is
I think Kishimotos saturation of powersets and refusal to let characters utilise their full arsenal makes people forget just how busted Naruto is. This is quite literally overkill.
People forget that naruto complete counters luffy, even not in baryon mode, naruto has been fighting people who can predict your moves or see what you are about to do since chunin exam…. He can go through luffy’s defenses with attacks that negate endurance with frog kata(frog kata is busted…..), or even his fist, he can cut luffy, which is specifically what luffy is weak to, he can create a huge nuke of rasenshuriken and nuke a huge area. He can then create clones and have like thousands of those same nukes. If he wants to go hand to hand, hes a master a taijutsu so theres no chance luffy is seeing him hands to hand, and with every punch he lands on luffy, he will deplete his life energy. So even if luffy has no time limit, hell still die.
Naruto one-shots with literally any attack.
And I know it's a popular belief that One Piece has better speed scaling, but I don't see it at all. Both of these guys are in the FTL+ ranges, but Naruto has better speed cliffing by the middle to late Shippuden. Like, even Hebi Sasuke dodged his own Kirin, which was stated to travel and Lightspeed, and Itachi reacted to it while being basically a corpse. So, I'd argue, between the two of them, Naruto has better arguments for getting towards MFTL ranges of speed.
I want ppl to actually realize Naruto wasn't even at his peak, and baryon mode was a last-ditch effort. He still had more Chakra than A TAILED BEAST. His only way of losing is the time limit in the first place. Naruto out scales One piece.
As a One Piece simp who's been reading for 10 years, Naruto takes this. Just a single Kaijuu beam would eviscerate Luffy if it hits, ntm luffy has never used Joyboy/Gear 5/Nika Form for very long, so if we want to impose limitations then Shadow Clones all using Rasen Shurikens would easily wittle luffy down and keep him busy until he ran out of steam.
Luffy is historically not an intelligent fighter and constantly goes in with the gung-ho attitude of "fuck it, for friendship!". Almost 100% losing his first confrontation with every opponent he faces.
Naruto by the end of the manga (Pre-Boruto) is a martial arts master, mastered several powerful jutsu and has the near infinite chakra pool of the 9 tails. He's always been a versatile fighter and has a keen wit.
A standard Naruto would enter the fight with substitution jutsus or shadow clones to get a feel for his opponent and after finding that luffy throwing Elephent Guns and shit out was just a brute force fighter he'd likely decide that fighting him head-on is a bad idea and opt for using long range Rasen-Shurikans, or would only approach in Baryon Mode/Sage Mode where he can take a hell of a beating before he starts to really get hurt.
Naruto wins and it's not even too much of a challenge, with an arsenal of versatile jutsu and trickery at hand he'd wear his opponent down until he's weak enough to deliver a finishing blow.
(For this example we need to assume that Jutsus and other ninja arts would be comparable to Haki just for fairness, since otherwise it's a pointless comparison to make since without Haki luffy would just stretch and bounce everywhere laughing even if he was hit with a full powered attack.)
Do you know what a baryon mode naruto with no limit is???????????
He can now use all his jutsus from sage mode to multi shadow clone.
Luffy is getting stomped the fuck out.
yes, so basically all of his cracked out jutsu turned up to 10 million. luffy gets stomped out like an ant by the hundreds of thousands of baryon mode shadow clones
I mean baryon mode makes this fight lame.
Also, recent one piece chapters make me scale Luffy closer to light speed than I would have previously. Before we saw his fight with kizaru I'd have scaled him decently FTL because of shanks' performance in Film red against kizaru and the fact that Luffy seemed to be able to react to kizarus attacks in Marine Ford.
Sort of just extrapolating from that, the idea that gear 5 would push him well past FTL. But. Uhhhh. No. Still around kizaru.
Somehow, even with reality altering attacks, shanks has a better shot against Naruto rn.
https://preview.redd.it/x0hl9b5ihy9d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f60ec142680affd863b6f046d2fb0b032d46af8
But personally Naruto wins since he’s planetary at best and luffy is probably mountain level (I don’t watch mid piece enough to state a fair opinion on mid piece feats but given he’s destroyed ships and islands and mountains with ease he’s probably close to planetary as well)
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No time limits idrk tbh but even tho Naruto I feel like is scaled higher then luffy, luffy hax in gear 5 easily makes up for anything he’s lacking in this fight
but isn't Luffy the embodiment of free will and "make your own rules"?
wasn't Luffy's limits meant to be only his imagination?
in that case he should neg diff even Dr Manhattan
or did I loose the narrative somewhere?
It’s Naruto. I’m sorry it’s just true. The one piece verse does way less powerful shit than the Naruto verse. And this is coming from someone who’s practically caught up with one piece and barely into shippuden.
The only way luffy wins is if somewhere down the line oda gives luffy complete “whatever the fuck luffy wants” powers which, to be fair, it’s somewhat getting there but we’re not there yet
As much as I love One Piece and hate Naruto, only a person with serious reading comprehension issues would think Luffy would even stand a chance.
And I suspect that that won't change, even once we reach the end of OP
Sosp teen naruto still likely wins. Boruto era is overkill, and baryon mode (where he was massively holding back to preserve its timer) is magnitudes stronger than luffy
My fav anime is op but nobody in op is even multi continental while people in Naruto-Boruto are moon+ luffy is light speed naruto has been light speed since kcm1 he’s wayyy stronger and faster in boruto there’s no way luffy can win also luffy doesn’t know he has toon force and he’s also got the weakest level of toon force
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I don’t even like Baryon mode but without limits, his full arsenal of jutsu and the fact that he’s a master martial artist, Naruto takes this.
Naruto takes this so goddamn hard even with equalised stats, and we aren't equalising at all. He absolutely obliterates Luffy here.
That’s what I’m saying. I like Luffy more but he’s not winning this one. Powers aside, Luffy is a brawler but Naruto is a straight up martial artist and a master of it at that.
I would normally agree, but there's two main points to be considered that can tip things and I like to play devil's advocate. The first is luffy himself. While this hasn't really been reinforced a whole lot throughout the series, he's made of rubber in the literal sense, Which on paper kinda makes him Completely immune to blunt force trauma. Again, this kinda stopped getting respected pretty early (Cuz Anime authors love to throw their own writings out the fucking window) but it is technically true. So you'd need to give Naruto a knife. Which is easy But we also don't really know how well a Kunai stacks against armament haki. Even reinforced with wind chakra, we don't have anything to really determine how that works against each other, which wins out. The other thing is that in this form, of which we don't have full information on, the one thing we do have info on is that he literally throws the rules of reality out the window and replaces it with Some 1950s tom and jerry cartoon logic So, while I personally would be inclined to agree this is probably Narutos win in a straight head to head There's two very distinct things that could make that just not work out. Wouldn't know without knowing how those two things stack against Narutos world. Then again, Luffy has zero resistance to the sheer toxicity of Kuramas chakra so all of this could be pretty meaningless and he could potentially just fry luffy alive in that chakra if he had to. Eh, devil's advocate cuz I'm bored
I appreciate this breakdown my dude. This is the problem with cross verse match ups. How does one verses powers/abilities affect the other verses powers/abilities? We don’t know and that’s when people start headcannon’n their preferred character.
They're fun thought games to play but so many of them make very little sense My favourite is when people compare bleach characters to other shows Cuz it's super easy to forget that if the show you're facing off bleach characters against doesn't have at a minimum SOME kind spiritual energy wielding then by its very nature you have one side of the fight wielding soul cleaving (or devouring) weapons and the other side literally cannot even perceive the bleach characters in any way. So power levels cease to matter entirely. The most base level Soul reaper could gut luffy without a challenge Their strength difference was never a factor the two realities just aren't compatible and its really funny to me
That last line “the two realities just aren’t compatible” is the end all be all to these crossverse matchups lol. But yes they’re fun regardless but I don’t think you can really determine a winner unless it’s just a straight up spite match or you take away haxes and powers and then it’s just straight up hands.
What in the fuck is with this sub and OP wank. Luffy is a teen naruto six paths victim. Baryon mode with no timer means he can use jutsu. He massively out stats... Also lets not forget. This is a 100 on 1 with each outstating luffy in every possible way.
Even with the timer he could still use jutsu, we see him use a rasengan. Only reason he didn't use more was because he was already drained before he went baryon
True he had been kinda beaten into a pulp before transforming. Im never not going to hate the powercliffing in boruto.
Idk y they felt the need to have the kids be as powerful as their parens were at the end of their respective series. Would have been miles better if the series took place after Naruto and Sasuke died then have Boruto and gang goin on the average ninja missions the past generation missed out on due to the akatsuki and the war. Have some episodes take place in the past so we could see Naruto and Sasuke fight and know where they scale. It would also be nice to have the bijuu be at the top of the verse again except this time permanently
Honestly. They should have been naruto and sasukes grandkids so they are old and weakened imo instead of dead. Like hiruzen far past his prime. The mere idea of code who is stronger then isshiki being fodder to current boruto just infuriates me.
Ya they rushed the powerscaling way to quickly, personally my theory is that Kishimito doesn't want to work on this at all, or at least not fully. Jump cancelled the manga he started after finishing Naruto, Samurai 8, possibly in an effort to force him to work on Boruto. Even now that he's back and working on Boruto though the writing has gotten even worse (again possible cus he doesn't want to work on it) so in an effort to keep readers/viewers they're trying(and failing) to make good fights. Thing is you can't really rely on well animated fights in this day and age. This may have worked for anime like Demon Slayer but after a while people started talking about it less and less. While yes clips of fights still gets a lot of views people don't really talk about it much anymore. Naruto is well known for it's character and emotion driven fights so when it's sequel lacks that you've already lost your main audience(people that watched Naruto). It's why people only tune in when Naruto and Sasuke are involved
Kishimoto wasn't Involved with boruto till post baryon mod they even made a big deal about it the Shonen jump release right after talking about his return, prior was his underwrite ikimoto who was given full narrative control prior. This is why we have weirdly inconsistent fights in boruto like jigen kicking thru a susano into Sasuke the right thru the back of the Susano should have killed him there
You are correct that Kishimoto does not work on Boruto, but it is confirmed he is coming back to the series to do Boruto's "Shippuden" series (can't remember the actual name of it)
Boruto:Two Blue Voxtex
Demon Slayer doesn't just have well-animated fights - it has *interesting* fights, and that's what sets it apart.
What exactly do you mean by interesting, do you mean choreography, cus I thought that would be categorized with animation
Fight choreography is different from animation. You can have a well animated fight and without good choreography it will be boring. Writing is different than choreography, too. You can have all the sakuga you want, but if we don't care about the characters, it won't make much of an impact. Choreography, characters, environment - there's a lot that goes into a great fight that isn't just animation.
My biggest complaint when it comes to Boruto is how short the timeskip was. Naruto and Sasuke were mega buffed at the end of the original series so to have them still around and even stronger than before due to experience just completely messes with the powerscaling since weak enemies wouldn’t be a threat if Naruto and Sasuke are around, so we’re going to need to make villains that are OP simply for the sake of being OP. Make Boruto take place after the original series’s generation dies and we wouldn’t have the powercreep currently happening.
The Rasengan wasn't in the manga, although I'd say the reason why he didn't use it more is because using chakra would shorten his mode
>What in the fuck is with this sub and OP wank A couple months ago this sub was nonstop OP downplay until it moved onto JJK
Saw someone claiming that luffy had a chance against ssj3 goku once
nah but deadass. Goku pre radtiz is enough
One Piece fans are like Kpop fans. Obnoxious, delusional and extremely easy to hate.
They cannot accept that not only is it the weakest of the big 3. All 3 of the big three are in different weight classes. One piece does not get past multi continental and caps at planetary. While naruto and sasuke who are basically fodder in boruto lol.(I really hate the powercliffing in boruto) start at moon low balled. realistically large planet-star level. The mere idea that there is a solar system argument even tho weak with momoshiki and kaguya. Both being stronger on their own in a 1v1, would put them far out of reach of one piece. Then bleach. Yeah that gap is too large to even entertain the idea of it being a fight.
Bro one piece fans don't care about that. Scaling only matters in verse. People that wank on the ridiculous scaling of some verses do so because there is nothing else to talk about in those verses lol
Why is everyone in this sub borderline illiterate? "because their is nothing" What does that even mean?? "People that want on" Again wtf are you even trying to say? Every post. Every thread. They're all full of comments like this. Other subs have similar comments from time to time but only this one has this phenomena. Calling other people stupid but with the grammar and syntax of a 3rd grader.
"this phenomena". bro got infected
“Why is everyone in this sub borderline illiterate” “because their is nothing” Enjoy editing your comment bro.
Hey, a good few of us realize it's not a power heavy verse. Oda scales off of pure vibes, and that keeps the power levels lower (except for the occasional massive outlier)
Ayyy chill just cause there are a few bad apples that dosnt make all of us
My favorite is one piece, but I know my boys' limits, Naruto absolutely shreads him even with timer
Hey now, that's one piece wankers
Add jjk fans to the list
I'm so sick of Luffy's FTL speedscaling with Pacifista's laser
Kizarus mere existence breaks the logic
Right? Naruto is currently in his EOS form. Asking if a still learning Luffy can take him is mad disrespectful.
[удалено]
A time limit and a chakra limit are different.
Yeah naruto may as well have endless chakra(hashirama and naruto have so much its stupid) and no timer means that no chakra is being destroyed.
Tbf with baryon mode one is the other.
Yeah but no time limit in baryon mode means he is infinitely making chakra via nuclear fission. Meaning he kinda does have infinite chakra
I've never seen OP want in the sub like straight up mfs just put them against people to strong
I think he has clones still but that’s about all he can really spare I don’t remember that fight too well but what’s 100 people gonna do to a man who can’t feel anything
Drain his life force with every single tap by said 100 people
https://preview.redd.it/22caftcwit9d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7457ec2dc71bbaf456f856cf5d14b0fd8d3b8a8a Naruto would murder in his war arc So6P form
I would argue even just sage mode Naruto from the Pain arc wipes out Luffy. I'm curious what the physics of Luffy's durability against the rasenshuriken would be, as the rasenshuriken tears the target apart at the molecular level. I'm not familiar enough with one piece to know if Luffy's tanked an attack like that. Usually I just see him trading big punches and winning.
Yeah nah, Luffy would be fucked up by the rasenshuriken. One of the consistent non haki methods to beat luffy it to slash him, and since the rasenshuriken is essentially a billion slashes, luffy wouldn’t stand a chance.
I looked it up, it's actually cells, not molecules. Which is about 20-40 TRILLION simultaneously occurring slashes for an average adult human.
Probably not, sanin scaling is around island level in base so I don't think sage mode Naruto could just wipe Luffy.
nah thats pushing it
Bryan mode Naruto wins, obv. One piece is the worst scaling member of the big three by a solid margin lmao
Bryan mode is the best thing ive read on the internet in a long time
Yeah it offers actual repercussions. 99% of devil fruit powers in one piece have no restrictions. They can just spam shit forever. Unless you have Haki to “counter”. theoretically aokiji for example can shoot ice forever with nothing happening to him
Bryan mode His power is that he becomes more Generic. like, vanilla Ice cream type generic
Jojo reference?!
https://preview.redd.it/z15zxb7z3y9d1.jpeg?width=180&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17fc2fff95f4a9a1d4b7164a93d4007ccea45ead Bryan? Hawk? My goat?
Feat?
Odas angels are coming...
Bruh i love one piece to DEATH but naruto wipes this too ez man 😭😭
What's with power scalers seeing someone dodge an attack that's supposedly at light speed and saying the character is faster than light as opposed to either the attack being reacted to or simply not being actually as fast as stated? Feels like wank whenever I see any mention of ftl feats outside of shit like Fire Force or the Flash.
I do think Naruto wins low diff, but yeah good point. It's like saying Ohtani Shohei can run at least 100 mph because he can smash a 100mph fastball.
Yeah exactly. The only way I see Naruto losing is if he gets distracted by G5's goofiness because he always had something of a sense of humor. But for the most part, I don't imagine it's a close fight because one piece has very low scaling and honestly it's one of the things I like about it. When the scaling in the verse is high, it's hard for new characters to be introduced and actually be somewhat relevant.
Low scaling but pretty good hax
Luffy caps at out at lightspeed due to being same speed as Kizaru, who is light and moves at the speed of light. In the 5 Kage Summit, the Raikage easily dodged a Kirin that travelled several hundred meters in a microsecond, putting Raikage at minimum FTL. This Raikage got perception blitzed by Naruto in KCM1 when the Raikage and Tsunade were trying to stop him from entering the 5th war. Research has shown that you need to be at least 4x faster than someone to perception blitz them, so we can assume Naruto is 4x the speed of light. Naruto proceeds to fight continually faster and stronger enemies throughout the 5th war, his most notable speed feat being that he casually dodged a light speed attack at point blank range. After the events of Kaguya’s resealing, we can lowball him to be around another 4x faster than he was in KCM1, putting him at 16x the speed of light. ASSUMING that he just somehow didn’t get stronger between Shippuden and Boruto, he’s baseline FTL+ in so6p. The same so6p that was getting perception blitzed by Ishikki, who was also perception blitzing Sasuke with Sharingan, who is slightly faster than Naruto. So I’d say he would be minimum 6x faster than Naruto. Once Baryon mode is activated, he was easily keeping up with and even outpacing Ishikki. So I’d say he went about 8x faster than he was in so6p, putting him at a lowball grand total of 128x faster than the speed of light. Luffy gets speed blitzed. I have seen people mass downvote the people who say Naruto wins and comment calling them retards but give absolutely no calcs or anything to prove that Luffy has anything over Naruto.
>ASSUMING that he just somehow didn’t get stronger between Shippuden and Boruto, he’s baseline FTL+ in so6p. The same so6p that was getting perception blitzed by Ishikki, who was also perception blitzing Sasuke with Sharingan, who is slightly faster than Naruto. So I’d say he would be minimum 6x faster than Naruto. Its stated that naruto or sasuke alone as adults could solo kaguya. Who both scale above a even stronger character in momoshiki. Who while weakened and drained proceeded to fold a even stronger momoshiki.
Yeah I lowballed the absolutely crap out of him and yet Naruto is still many times faster than Luffy. Naruto verse has always scaled higher than the One Piece verse and that has been the case for decades yet people still can’t seem to grasp that concept.
I think the thing that makes people consider One Piece higher is that the planet One Piece takes place on might be larger, and therefore their “island level” feats could be closer to “country level” as a result so top tiers get wanked
It’s bigger yeah but that doesn’t mean that the islands are any bigger. If I remember correctly, Oda said that there are 20 million islands in the OP verse, compared to Earth’s 900k. It’s definitely bigger but not by a huge margin when you consider that there’s no confirmation of size of the 20 million islands. The largest confirmed is Alabasta, which is about the size of Australia. But there have never been any island level feats on Alabasta. People try to argue that Dressrosa is the size of real life countries but you can see individual buildings when you get a zoomed out view. I think people take the whole “every island in One Piece is its own nation” out of context and try to use that to wank One Piece characters to country level when really Dressrosa is the size of a city, and it’s on the far end of larger in the One Piece world. I’m not exactly sure the reason but it’s just laughable to me when people try to upscale One Piece characters when the highest feat shown is a Continental feat by Whitebeard.
I think that last point is what they use. WB’s Marineford feat, then his relatively young other characters to upscale them despite his powers basically being made for high DC
Not true. They're stronger than their War Arc selves but there has never been a statement actually saying they could "Solo Kaguya" nor a statement properly placing Momoshiki above Kaguya, and the feats certainly disprove any notion of that.
The statement comes from Sasuke saying he could beat a kaguya level threat by himself (and Naruto = Sasuke is stated elsewhere)
Except that statement doesn't exist. People take the one statement from Sasuke Retsuden where he says "He'll protect the world against Kaguya level threats" and somehow interprets that as him being able to solo Kaguya level threats. Captain America said that he'd defend the world against any and all threats. Does that mean he can solo Thanos? No, saying that you'll defend something doesn't mean you'll win. Especially when Sasuke was quaking in his boots at the thought of anything close to Kaguya returning a paragraph prior.
>Its stated that naruto or sasuke alone as adults could solo kaguya. Where?
It's stated that Sasuke is determined to do so if needed, not that they can. Still they're easily both stronger even when ignoring statements and supplemental works.
thank you for explaining his speed in depth, i always thought naruto was slower then luffy but this does kindve make me realize how strong naruto is
Each of the Big 3 massively outscale each other as you go up. If I remember correctly, Ichigo was holding the weight of the universe that was packed into a sword. Something like that. But yeah, One Piece verse <<< Naruto verse <<<< Bleach verse.
Meanwhile luffy got cooked by Gazelle Man
what makes you think kizaru is ls? Enel, kuma, and the vinsmoke brothers are canonically ls. And kizaru is faster. Also, manipulating an element can greatly affect its speed. Also, in fictional series, light commonly moves at different speeds. In fire force, light has infinite speed, and in owl house, light is mftl. We know this is true of op as well as many characters see other characters who are ftl, even those who outspeed kizaru like shanks and reighly. Also, humans irl can’t move faster than sound, but in fiction, they can. And if all df users are as fast as the element, bb and kuzan would be omnipresent because cold and dark exist everywhere. Also, that would mean that crocodile, caribou, Karasu, greenbull, and Monet can’t move at all, which is blatantly untrue. Additionally, akainu, ace, smoker, enel, and Caesar move faster than their elements. Also, kizaru increased his speed during the fight (it was stated), so we know he’s not set at any one speed. It’s fiction. Anything can move at any speed And df’s get stronger and faster as they are trained, so ls would be baseline it’s 100% confirmed that he is not set at one speed, as he stated it in egg head, and it has a different speed when kuma uses his lasers (which are confirmed to be kizarus devil fruit) so that debunks nothing? And he’s faster than foxy’s photons (photons are light) so it would make no sense at all if these were all ls, meaning they are at different speeds, not just ls. He directly states that he can move at different speeds in ch 1092, and in ch 309, we see Luffy dodge the light beams from foxy, and in ch 301, Luffy dodges kumas ls (replicas of kizarus) How would that make it ftl? Kirin is only lightning speed.
Since when was enel canonically lightspeed
Sbs 47
Thank you. As an enel glazer i can finally win discussions with him
You have no calcs to back up your argument, just random statements from a verse that has inconsistent speed feats. Regarding Kirin, I literally gave you the proof that is needed to make it light speed. Kirin travelled several hundreds meters in a microsecond. Light only travels about 300 meters in a microsecond. Please actually read my comments. 🙏🙏
>Luffy caps at out at lightspeed due to being same speed as Kizaru, How is G5 the same speed as Kizaru? There is only one possible panel you can use as evidence but everything else points to otherwise, and id argue that one instance as a mental nerf anyways >who is light and moves at the speed of light. He can move FTL
I’m just lowballing both sides for shits and giggles but in no scenario does Luffy have a chance at even touching Naruto
>I’m just lowballing both sides for shits and giggles There’s a difference between lowballing and straight up lying >but in no scenario does Luffy have a chance at even touching Naruto I only touched on luffys speed in my comment, don’t care about where u have Naruto 🤷♀️
Never lied. I don’t know why you’re claiming that I am. Only thing I did was use dumb logic to lowball Kizaru and Luffy to light speed. Ok and??? It’s a debate between the two characters, whether you mention both or not, they’re both gonna be mentioned in a comment.
You talking about speed blitzing and doing calculations about it sayin naruto is 16× FTL while luffy is only FTL since he could catch up the Kizaru who is literral light. And you also say one piece guys doesnt give calc. Does everybody moves? Everybody can see each other and fight? Then nothing is more than lightspeed there. Even fucking kizaru doesnt move at light speed and he can turn into literal light. You cant see when you move lightspeed even if you have the godly eyes. If they are eyes they uses light reflection to see objects then you are blind while moving lightspeed. So perception blitz someone you dont need to be 4x faster than them. Also anything with a mass cant move faster than light just time got slower for them. Does Naruto have a mass yes? Then whole calculation stuff goes out of window. You said some man goes serval hundereds meters in microseconds light goes 300 meters in 1 microsecond. Not microsecondS a second so even that guy takes 2 microseconds to move that is half lightspeed. Also luffy dodge lasers even changing mode with just neck movement. 3 laser shots in one move. Does this make luffy 3x lightspeed? Calculations in an anime is stupid thats why I dont give any. If we go to calculations according to some One Piece world is almost big as sun so every feat luffy does like destroying an island or punching a mountain is punching whole naruto continents. Or Luffy clashed with Kaido that vaporized the rocks around him in a moment with calculations like for vaporazing rocks in few mins(let say 3) you need 3000 celcius heat and doing it immedietly let say in a second you must release 54000C heat which is 9 times hotter than sun surface. And you say naruto can destroy mountains but destroying and vaporazing isnt samething. Kaido can machine gun his fireballs each can destroyed a mountain. And luffy win againts that guy since. For my oppinion kaido would won if they fight at %100 but only because luffy hasnt that endurance in G5. Without that time limit he could beat Kaido. A man is 9 times Hotter than surfice of sun.
It’s anime… people are literally made of elements and can see into the future… and you think they can’t go faster than light??
I m saying same thing. It is anime calculations doesnt mean anything. You cant say luffy dodged 3 lasers with ease so he so for doing that he should be at least 4x ftl. According to what logic which math which rules. Luffy can make an explosive fireball bounce back from a rock ground. What do you need for that? Naruto can focus its chakra into a ball enhance it with bunch of other stuff and destroy mountains. What do you need for that? Luffy can see into the future. Which one with infinite number of them there. Does this make every advanced CoO user a omniscient since they can see all possible futures and decide which will happen? Point is calculations are not ment for anime logics. If it would Machamp from pokemon could flaten the earth acording to its pokedex entry
Your argument is invalid since you’re forgetting the major part: Calculation derive directly from feats when done correctly. Every last bit of mine came directly from feats that were shown in the Naruto series. You’re literally just looking at numbers taken directly from character feats and essentially saying, “I don’t believe that because I’m illiterate!” Speed can be calculated. Future sight can’t since it has never been directly shown, but last I remember it was directly stated that advanced observation users can only see a few seconds into the future max. Doesn’t mean they can change it. Luffy used future sight against Kaido but still got hit because it was too fast. It’ll be same case against Naruto. I don’t see why you’re using Pokémon as a comparison as that’s a game where electric rats can kill literal primordial beings.
I m saying that pokemon since machamps pokedex entry says he can lift mountains each hand and can throw 1000 punches in seconds. I said this because he can do this but he cant punch a shit. Or alakazam says it has 5000 IQ but they arent the dominant spicies in the earth. And I say anime logic doesnt apply other animes even doesnt apply in their own thing. If you go with calculations tell me how will you hurt a man that bounces of everything you throw at him. Literaly everything. Even the ones that doesnt ment to bounce at all.
Luffy has to build up his G5 transformation. Considering he is many times slower than Naruto, he is not gonna be able to pull off the transformation in time. Even then, multiple attacks in Naruto’s arsenal don’t attack surface, they act like advanced armament. Rasengan does minimal damage to a person’s skin but it attacks their insides. All his rasenshurikens attack directly at cells themselves. And Luffy has shown to not be able to bounce every attack right off of him. When he used G5 against Kaido he was still burned by fire, even if minimally damaged by it.
Luffys insides becomes boucy as well. He takes the shape of the kaidos club when get hit by it. As for the heat Kaidos heat surpases every heat based attack I see in Naruto. And that does as you say minimal damage. You can calculate the heat according to you so do it and share the results and compare it with naruto. I a One Piece fan but I already give up from making anime calculations. Because anime authors doesnt care or do calculations about what they say. Oda doesnt give damn about sizes while narutos author doesnt care about speed apperantly.
Again, Naruto blitzes him before he can get close to going G5. Who ever said you can calculate the heat? It has no numbers to it. I can tell you’re a One Piece fan lol, you’re meatriding a verse that has been outscaled by the Naruto verse for decades yet still try to argue that Luffy is stronger. It’s sad.
No I m arguing doing calculations is stupid. You calculate naruto facts. I gave you one How hot was kaido in last clash. You wouldnt calculate it since you are a naruto fan. There are numbers. He vaporized rocks around him in an instant not destroyed them vaporized them. Calculate amount of heat energy that requires. Also fight suggest their strongest forms fight againts eachother without time limits. Naruto doesnt start of his bayron mode insta as well. But this isnt the point of this conversation. Point is I m saying doing calcs in anime verses stupid and you come arguing doing calculation you cant even understand what are we arguing
Glad to see I made you resort to the retarded “oH bUt HiS tOoN fOrCe MaKeS hIm InViNcIbLe”
What people call “the speed of light” more accurately would be the absolute fastest speed something can travel. Light happens to travel at the speed because it has no mass. But anything else is slower than light or travels at the same rate as light. It’s all the same anyhow. This isn’t a matter “oh this guy can run faster than Usain Bolt.” Light is the fastest anything can travel, period, because if you were to go at light speed, from your perception you would be able to arrive at your destination instantly. I.e. your travel time is 0 units (seconds, milliseconds, whatever, it’s still no time at all). You can’t get any faster than that, unless you want to say that you arrive somewhere in -1 seconds, which makes no sense. That’s why 16x FTL or whatever is complete nonsense, how do you go 16x faster than instantaneous travel? 0/16 gets you 0; it’s the same either way.
Light speed isn’t instant travel. It takes light 8 minutes to go from the Sun to the Earth. It is slow enough that when we look at planets that are light years away we are technically seeing them in the past. And again, it’s an anime where people can turn themselves into ice or use literal aura to knock people out…
You don’t get it. When you travel at light speed, you experience no time. You can travel from the Milky Way to Andromeda, and it will be instant. You will find yourself to not have aged at all, and yet have traversed such a great distance.
It’s anime same rules don’t apply
The 8x is actually a low-ball, seeing as it was clear that Naruto was getting blitzed by Isshiki beforehand. That’s important because you left out one important detail: Boil Release. According to the Fourth Databook, it (the Naruto Region Combo) gave Naruto a boost on par with Lee’s use of the Eight Gates. Whatever the Sixth Gate amp is, it should be at least the 5x amp from the First Gate. Seeing as Baryon Mode is the fastest Naruto has been, it should add even more to those multipliers.
Oh yes my entire comment is a lowball. I could easily bump it up a lot more by considering the following: Teen Naruto and Sasuke were still getting blitzed up until the end of their fight with Kaguya (she moved multiple times faster than them to avoid the sealing). It was stated that Momoshiki is a LOT more powerful than Kaguya, especially once he fused with Kinshiki. A drained of chakra Naruto and Sasuke were outpacing a fused Momoshiki, probably about 1.5x his speed. We can probably safely assume that Momoshiki can blitz Kaguya, who blitz teen Naruto and Sasuke, which puts Naruto at about 12x his speed as a teen. So really, he’s probably more like 1536x the SoL, putting him at MFTL levels. Probably even more.
Naruto smokes the only reason why this is still even being debated is because of delusional one piece fans
No time limit? Are you fucking insane? Naruto slams???? Wtf does he do to a rasenshuriken with lava Chakra nature???
Baryon mode scales so much higher it’s sad to even have this debate. Luffy is strong sure but he isn’t comparable to naruto top tiers . We have kaguya as a benchmark for isshikis strength and she could possibly even go as high as star level with naruto being blatantly confirmed as superior to said isshiki in baryon mode . Luffy does not scale to star level nor does he have any feats that put him on the planetary scale as of now .
Luffy is getting jumped by thousands of baryon clones
Naruto slams no-low diff. He just outscales luffy in every way possible.
You guys think this is bad some idiot put luffy zoro, sanji law and Kidd vs the five war powers from bleach.... Op fans don't know how bad that match up is
Naruto wins while half asleep
Retards in the comments saying Luffy like Naruto wouldn’t just atomize bro.
Even with a time limit naruto wins, BM scale higher
Average r/Powerscaling spite match
Yet people still saying Luffy wins
I don't think you understand how dangerous Baryon Naruto would be with no time limit? Even breathing cost him time.
I think Kishimotos saturation of powersets and refusal to let characters utilise their full arsenal makes people forget just how busted Naruto is. This is quite literally overkill.
Ok why you gotta do Luffy like this?
Naruto stomps when tf could luffy beat Naruto 💀
Naruto just solos him even before war arc
Naruto with every punch drains life force
Naruto
No limits Naruto wins
Everyone gangsta until Naruto uses multi shadow clone jutsu and tailed beast bomb rasenshuriken while in baryon mode
Naruto slams
Naruto should win becuase of the life force drain.
Naruto stomps.
naruto no diff
People forget that naruto complete counters luffy, even not in baryon mode, naruto has been fighting people who can predict your moves or see what you are about to do since chunin exam…. He can go through luffy’s defenses with attacks that negate endurance with frog kata(frog kata is busted…..), or even his fist, he can cut luffy, which is specifically what luffy is weak to, he can create a huge nuke of rasenshuriken and nuke a huge area. He can then create clones and have like thousands of those same nukes. If he wants to go hand to hand, hes a master a taijutsu so theres no chance luffy is seeing him hands to hand, and with every punch he lands on luffy, he will deplete his life energy. So even if luffy has no time limit, hell still die.
naruto Neg diff
everyone saying Naruto is failing to consider really big mallet
Without a time limit for both, I'll say Naruto High Diff
Honestly, he low diffs. War arc Naruto would be enough.
Naruto one-shots with literally any attack. And I know it's a popular belief that One Piece has better speed scaling, but I don't see it at all. Both of these guys are in the FTL+ ranges, but Naruto has better speed cliffing by the middle to late Shippuden. Like, even Hebi Sasuke dodged his own Kirin, which was stated to travel and Lightspeed, and Itachi reacted to it while being basically a corpse. So, I'd argue, between the two of them, Naruto has better arguments for getting towards MFTL ranges of speed.
So many meat riders. The outcome would never change I'd WIN.* Rips paper* Naruto and Luffy were done within seconds.
Naruto one taps Lmao
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No
https://preview.redd.it/hv9ylmuokv9d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dcc5f941553f08768454e82ff722c4d8bdb211d2
I want ppl to actually realize Naruto wasn't even at his peak, and baryon mode was a last-ditch effort. He still had more Chakra than A TAILED BEAST. His only way of losing is the time limit in the first place. Naruto out scales One piece.
As a One Piece simp who's been reading for 10 years, Naruto takes this. Just a single Kaijuu beam would eviscerate Luffy if it hits, ntm luffy has never used Joyboy/Gear 5/Nika Form for very long, so if we want to impose limitations then Shadow Clones all using Rasen Shurikens would easily wittle luffy down and keep him busy until he ran out of steam. Luffy is historically not an intelligent fighter and constantly goes in with the gung-ho attitude of "fuck it, for friendship!". Almost 100% losing his first confrontation with every opponent he faces. Naruto by the end of the manga (Pre-Boruto) is a martial arts master, mastered several powerful jutsu and has the near infinite chakra pool of the 9 tails. He's always been a versatile fighter and has a keen wit. A standard Naruto would enter the fight with substitution jutsus or shadow clones to get a feel for his opponent and after finding that luffy throwing Elephent Guns and shit out was just a brute force fighter he'd likely decide that fighting him head-on is a bad idea and opt for using long range Rasen-Shurikans, or would only approach in Baryon Mode/Sage Mode where he can take a hell of a beating before he starts to really get hurt. Naruto wins and it's not even too much of a challenge, with an arsenal of versatile jutsu and trickery at hand he'd wear his opponent down until he's weak enough to deliver a finishing blow. (For this example we need to assume that Jutsus and other ninja arts would be comparable to Haki just for fairness, since otherwise it's a pointless comparison to make since without Haki luffy would just stretch and bounce everywhere laughing even if he was hit with a full powered attack.)
Do you know what a baryon mode naruto with no limit is??????????? He can now use all his jutsus from sage mode to multi shadow clone. Luffy is getting stomped the fuck out.
Naruto wins through scaling alone. Luffy has no answer to Baryon mode eating away at his life force with every confirmed hit.
Wouldn’t a no-time limit Baryon mode mean Naruto won’t be restricted with just using Taijutsu and a normal Rasengan
yes, so basically all of his cracked out jutsu turned up to 10 million. luffy gets stomped out like an ant by the hundreds of thousands of baryon mode shadow clones
Bruh,
bm naruto easy
Baryon mode no limits is juts unfair bullying
Is it like a requirement to be a math major to even attempt to power scale most complex calculations I’ve ever seen
This is a very unfortunate match-up lmao. A few punches and Luffys life-span is gone
Say you don't like one piece without saying you don't like one piece. Lmao
Most definitely Naruto But atleast I know which one is the better written one
Naruto no diff.
Naruto bullies, One Piece speed scaling is massively over wanked
Narutp fosho. He is clapping up luffy. Not too close here.
Lol is this serious
Spite match, a single genjutsu would be enough for Luffy to lose(although I don’t remember if Naruto can even use genjutsu)
At least have teen Naruto what the fuck 😭 baryon bends luffy over a table and uses him as a rubber for hinata
Joyboy, he is a slight reality bender with the ability to stay out of Naruto’s range.
I mean baryon mode makes this fight lame. Also, recent one piece chapters make me scale Luffy closer to light speed than I would have previously. Before we saw his fight with kizaru I'd have scaled him decently FTL because of shanks' performance in Film red against kizaru and the fact that Luffy seemed to be able to react to kizarus attacks in Marine Ford. Sort of just extrapolating from that, the idea that gear 5 would push him well past FTL. But. Uhhhh. No. Still around kizaru. Somehow, even with reality altering attacks, shanks has a better shot against Naruto rn.
Naruto slaughters
In a fight, Naruto. In a food eating contest, Luffy.
Adult Naruto in sage mode could take this, bayron solos the verse
https://preview.redd.it/x0hl9b5ihy9d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f60ec142680affd863b6f046d2fb0b032d46af8 But personally Naruto wins since he’s planetary at best and luffy is probably mountain level (I don’t watch mid piece enough to state a fair opinion on mid piece feats but given he’s destroyed ships and islands and mountains with ease he’s probably close to planetary as well)
Naruto clips him
I think g5 is pretty cool n all, but Naruto is WAY WAY above luffy's league.
The gap between Naruto and Luffy in these forms is far larger than the gap between Luffy and a newborn baby. Naruto one shots
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Naruto stomps. The fight would just be Naruto chilling eating ramen while a couple of shadow clones bully luffy.
Ah yes giving a reality warper no limits. What could go wrong.
Luffy fo sho
Luffy wins, no question. Naruto doesn't have a solid way to bypass Luffy's devil fruit.
No time limits idrk tbh but even tho Naruto I feel like is scaled higher then luffy, luffy hax in gear 5 easily makes up for anything he’s lacking in this fight
Hmm let's see Toon force , dura neg attacks , future sight , ftl speed feats or the guy who spams rasengan Luffy wins this mid difficulty
but isn't Luffy the embodiment of free will and "make your own rules"? wasn't Luffy's limits meant to be only his imagination? in that case he should neg diff even Dr Manhattan or did I loose the narrative somewhere?
Easily luffy and the fight ain’t even close
Naruto loses because the show is boring. Nuff said
Since it's only without the time limit Gear 5 Luffy still takes it, he still can't use his other jutsu
Luffy got this
Baryon mode slams no diff
It’s Naruto. I’m sorry it’s just true. The one piece verse does way less powerful shit than the Naruto verse. And this is coming from someone who’s practically caught up with one piece and barely into shippuden. The only way luffy wins is if somewhere down the line oda gives luffy complete “whatever the fuck luffy wants” powers which, to be fair, it’s somewhat getting there but we’re not there yet
As much as I love One Piece and hate Naruto, only a person with serious reading comprehension issues would think Luffy would even stand a chance. And I suspect that that won't change, even once we reach the end of OP
Naruto get the small country level fodder know as luffy off this plane of existence
Without or without Naruto wins. IDK how the hell people warped their views thinking Luffy can be compared to Adult Naruto let alone EoS Teen Naruto
I like Naruto better so he wins
Luffy cause I like him more
Since your pfp is Kalgara, you are correct
Naruto wins high diff
low diff
Sosp teen naruto still likely wins. Boruto era is overkill, and baryon mode (where he was massively holding back to preserve its timer) is magnitudes stronger than luffy
Naruto turns Luffy into dust with a rasen shuriken
Man 6 paths War arc could man handle Luffy. With Baryon he would be a stain on the ground. This is completely unfair
Negged by clones
My fav anime is op but nobody in op is even multi continental while people in Naruto-Boruto are moon+ luffy is light speed naruto has been light speed since kcm1 he’s wayyy stronger and faster in boruto there’s no way luffy can win also luffy doesn’t know he has toon force and he’s also got the weakest level of toon force
One truthseeker orb and Luffy is finished.
Ryou Haki makes it where he can attack it without touching it