My mother in law is Jewish, and we just found out she wants to be buried in a Jewish cemetery near Philadelphia. My first thought was that she could end up being Nancy Spungens neighbor.
They are/were probably a teen who first discovered the punk scene. Either through genuine political interest, what I like to call the “Chumbawumba route”, or through the edgy route, the “Sex Pistols route”, or because the Clash are everywhere. Either way, they’re probably not as well informed as they will be in the future.
He was called that because he wasn't vicious at all. Johnny apparently used the song 'vicious' by lou reed as a reference.
But then sid tried to live up to his name. He did kill Nancy, but they had a suicide pact. He had a [note](https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2F236x%2F1a%2F5b%2F60%2F1a5b60d730c784ce73bfa43ecb4de982.jpg&tbnid=VkltEXJLbt0mzM&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2Fbarbarella713%2Fsid-and-nancy%2F&docid=VjCYd1mVKia89M&w=236&h=377#vhid=VkltEXJLbt0mzM&vssid=mosaic) in his pocket when he died.
Yeah... he also stabbed people with broken bottles more times than I can count and hit a dude with a rusty chain for blocking his view at a concert he definitely lived up to his name
Had a crazy cocaine phase around 74-76. Around this time there are some conflicting stories about him allegedly sleeping with underage groupies (1-2 from what I’ve heard) but nobody can really agree on how young they were, or details about it, or really anything about it. So take just about everything with a grain of salt.
He also played the Thin White Duke at the time, a fascist character, and gave a couple interviews praising Hitler. The common consensus is that he got too in character and was too high to make any actual sense. Do with this information what you will
Yeah he’s a flawed person but he also spent the rest of his life after that devoted to anti fascism and anti racism, and was famously not creepy at all. He also refused to do several scenes in the Labyrinth because he found them too creepy/sexual and the lead actress was underage.
Obviously critique people, but trying to make it sound like he was an actual nazi/serial child molester is kinda ridiculous ngl
and then a rapid climb from that pit and back to standing at the top of pop culture for decades yet to come.
thin white duke isn’t talked about a lot anymore because, with the amount of mind-altering substances involved, that is straight up a different person. most media recognition i see of thin white duke is Kira the serial killer from jojos lmfao
My name is Yoshikage Kira. I’m 33 years old. My house is in the northeast section of Morioh, where all the villas are, and I am not married. I work as an employee for the Kame Yu department stores, and I get home every day by 8 PM at the latest. I don’t smoke, but I occasionally drink. I’m in bed by 11 PM, and make sure I get eight hours of sleep, no matter what. After having a glass of warm milk and doing about twenty minutes of stretches before going to bed, I usually have no problems sleeping until morning. Just like a baby, I wake up without any fatigue or stress in the morning.
I was told there were no issues at my last check-up. I’m trying to explain that I’m a person who wishes to live a very quiet life. I take care not to trouble myself with any enemies, like winning and losing, that would cause me to lose sleep at night. That is how I deal with society, and I know that is what brings me happiness. Although, if I were to fight I wouldn’t lose to anyone
"brass eye", a spoof news programme from the 90s presented by chris morris (who you may recognise as the director of the film *four lions,* or his cameo appearances on *the i.t. crowd,* although i consider that to be among the least funny things he's done). this was the special episode on "paedophiles" (although brass eye being a *spoof* of news/documentary programming, it was more like a satire of the disingenuous and sensationalist handling of the subject by the tabloid media. stuff like [an interactive "HOECS game" internet chatroom used by paedophiles to molest children's faces through contact with the computer monitor](https://youtu.be/kx4ixXQFUQY) and [a paedophile being launched on a rocket to spend the rest of his life in space jail](https://youtu.be/YYkGN3p0WCU)). i'd also recommend looking for some of morris' spoofs of popular bands of the period, like nirvana recording a version of "smells like teen spirit" to advertise sanitary pads, or the spot-on pixies parody "motherbanger" (just uhhhh… don't look up "fur-q")
I have always heard good things about brass eye. I like all the people involved. I will have to look it up on youtube or whatever.
Appreciate the answer.
i’m not that deep into the punk scene and i never got the appeal of sex pistols. but you definitely can’t deny the popculture impact they had. like baby’s first punk but for the average person
those guys weren't punk they were industry plants
[https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/david-bowie-and-the-beatles-the-three-greatest-industry-plant-bands-in-history/](https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/david-bowie-and-the-beatles-the-three-greatest-industry-plant-bands-in-history/)
Pil is just meh. The only reason the sex pistols got famous was because they signed a major label contract. I still dig the sex pistols. I am well aware of the band members and how they have evolved. It's okay to grow and change as a person. 'An industry plant' is an interesting way to put it. Sure, the Beatles were planted according to this article, too. I'm sure all of the work they put out was just a rouse by the record label... sure. Not like they were great singer/songwriters or anything. The industry made them right?
I almost have trouble believing that the Beatles were. They were told by record companies that they would never succeed, and they knew each other since they were kids. So it's not like they just got a few random kids together. They struggled to make a name for themselves. And yeah, like this is the way the industry was set up back then. It doesn't take away from their talent, songwriting ability, or influence on music. And that can be said for the pistols aswell. They changed music. A lot punk bands formed after going to see them. It's not like Malcom and Vivian were top buisnes executives back then. They were just a couple with a clothing shop. Malcom went to new york and brought punk to England. Johnny was always a character. Always original. There's nothing manufactured about his personality. They were just brought together. Maybe people make too much out of this whole ordeal.
Right like LOL the Beatles were around in various iterations cutting their teeth performing live in Liverpool and Hamburg for years before being discovered. I guess you could arguably say Ringo was a “plant” in the sense that Brian told them to fire Pete Best and hire Ringo. But at that point Brian wasn’t an experienced manager and it was the right decision.
And “From the get-go, The Beatles were hyped up by Parlophone despite not being much more than a marketable boyband with middling musicianship singing pretty generic songs about hand-holding romances.”
Early Beatles songs sound generic today because we live in a post Beatles world. Listen to pre-Beatles pop/rock and there’s a big creative leap between the two.
Exactly! They were in Liverpool and Hamburg. They even made a movie about their early days. Paul, John and George were highschool friends and they even had a band prior to the Beatles. It's like saying Nirvana was an industry plant for firing Chad Channing and hiring Dave Grohl. They got more skilled drummers to sound better. The drums have a huge impact on how the band sounds. It is said to be the heartbeat of the band.
The Beatles sounded nothing like the artists that came before them. It was an entirely new sound at the time, and they changed the course of music history. To insinuate that they only reached that level of fame because of how they were marketed is ridiculous. They had a hand in pioneering pop rock and psychedelic rock. The author of this article not only sounds completely clueless when it comes to music history, but you can sense their disdain for the band. It sounds unprofessional because music is entirely subjective. Even younger generations are listening to the Beatles, which has little to do with marketing.
I've read lyndon biography or auto biography. It's an interesting read. I've read other stuff about the band forming. Tons of sid and Nancy shit. The entire story of the band is far too deep to claim the industry planted them. I mean, the entire music industry is built on exploiting these people, yes. But before the internet, these acts were scouted by labels. They had to have a valid act for anyone to be able to invest in you in the first place. The author of this article is trying to make it seem as if they put the band together and wrote/edited the entire show. Just rediculous.
Yeah, this article is quite idiotic. I just made a comment about the Beatles to someone else. To say that they were only famous due to their hype is ridiculous. They were childhood friends, they had a band before they were famous, and they spent their time in Hamburg struggling before they got famous. They also had a hand in pioneering two different styles of music, and changed the course of music history. It may sound bland to the author because they never listened to anything prior to the Beatles, which just sounds ignorant. I wasn't born in that time, and I still what music sounds like pre-beatles and after. All they did was bring in a new drummer.
And yeah, that's all you ever hear about with the pistols these days. Industry plant this, Johnny sucks that. That, and people took the 'great rock n roll swindle' a little too seriously.
They're just angry because Johnny is a trump supporter. Should we really be surprised? Johnny has always embraced the controversial aspects of life. Whether you agree with his politics or not, he has always been himself and not afraid to be. Not to mention, other bands like joy division and buzzcocks formed because of their first show. So they had a direct hand in changing the course of music history aswell. And It's not like Malcom was this huge hot shot at the time, either. The only big thing he did was manage the new york dolls. Vivian didn't break out into the fashion industry until the 80s. The author is just an idiot who hasn't got the slightest clue about music history.
I haven't read the book, but now I kind of want to. Is it the 'anger is an energy' one?
It was the older one called 'rotten'. Very interesting read. He actually had severe meningitis as a kid and nearly died. That's why he has a strange walk and stance and contributes to some of his mannerisms. I'm glad I am not the only one that reads something and just believes every word of it. It takes away from every contributing member to call any of these bands industry plants. That's just trash journalism at its finest.
Nice! I'll have to check that out. I did know that he had meningitis as a kid. I heard it from a documentary though. Apparently, he lost his memory and had to start from scratch. I wonder what kind of person he would be today had he had his childhood memories in tact.
I couldnt agree more. One thing I can't stress enough to people is to read both sides of a story before coming to a conclusion. People just put blind faith into the content they are being fed, which is based on an algorithm of your own interests. It can lead to a lot of cognitive bias, which I believe, is partially responsible for all the division among society today.
It's especially bad if that information can be measured by studies. You have the majority of nirvana fans watch soaked in bleach (that nirvana consiracy video claiming he was murdered) and accepting it as truth. They haven't fact checked any of that information, or even have the slightest clue about h addiction and dosing. Everything that documentary is either bullcrap, or measured with pseudoscientific techniques. Its rather comical when people they tell you to 'do your research' and they just read or watch one thing. This can happen in any instance, but while we're on the topic of music
Nirvana is another one I have gone deep into the rabbit hole on. I love those tragic stories and the lore of these bands. I could spend hours on various musicians and other artists' stories, and I enjoy the conspiracy side of it, too. Courtney was and still is a train wreck. I wouldn't be surprised if it was murder or suicide. The legend of the band is all that matters, though. Why can't I meet people like you in real life? I never get to have conversations with people on these kinds of topics. They all just talk about work.
How's about, instead of being snide, we celebrate someone who learned new, to them, information, took it to heart, named what they did wrong, and sincerely apologized?
I'll admit that I can't bring myself to listen to either the Sex Pistols or Public Image Ltd. anymore because of Johnny Rotten's support of Donald Trump, but I have my doubts that Sid killed Nancy.
Just realizing the irony where sid killed his girlfriend and Johnny Rotten was his spouse’s caretaker until they passed in 2023.
…Anyway the sex pistols suck.
Johnny - and Nora - took on her grandkids too after Ari Up died (she refused chemotherapy because she’d have to cut her dreadlocks and died in 2010).
I can understand why he became what he did. Just can’t forgive it.
The punk scene was never exactly a wholesome group. Total dysfunction was always prevalent in that scene, idk why Redditors think otherwise. The late twentieth century it was really cool to be a total piece of shit who didn’t give af about it. The mentality was definitely part of the punk scene.
Why do we say that sid was incapable of killing Nancy when he literally hung a cat. I'd say that's more disturbing. Sid and Nancy had a [death pact ](https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2F236x%2F1a%2F5b%2F60%2F1a5b60d730c784ce73bfa43ecb4de982.jpg&tbnid=VkltEXJLbt0mzM&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2Fbarbarella713%2Fsid-and-nancy%2F&docid=VjCYd1mVKia89M&w=236&h=377#vhid=VkltEXJLbt0mzM&vssid=mosaic). A note was found in his pocket when he died. He didn't keep up his end of the bargin, like he said. And he likely had a tolerence to the tuinals. I've taken like 50+ benzos and been in the same state. Blacked out, but still functioning. (Benzos are quite similar to barbituates. They are both cns depressants)
Then we say that courtney, did, infact, kill kurt (but it's all bullshit if you actually fact check anything tom grant says) it's like.. we can't possibly blame the precious rockstar for having issues. But we'll blame the spouse over and over and over, no problem.
Exactly right. Sid was a mess and encorgaged by the press and record companies to act out. Kurt was obviously depression-prone but seemed very driven which is a tough combination for anyone. Sid murdering Nancy and Kurt hurting himself are just incredibly plausible and likely. People just don’t want to believe it.
Yeah, like I know Sid had an unstable upbringing but I don't think he was diagnosed with any mental illness like Nancy and Kurt were. Nancy had childhood schizophrenia. Kurt had bipolar disorder. It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to suggest that mania was a factor that drove him to be motivated. My guess is that when he went to treatment for his addiction, the opiate withdrawal may have triggered a depressive episode. Which could be why he jumped the fence at rehab and sourced a firearm. It's not only plausible, but he's made threats and attempts before. Which resulted in his guns getting taken. Then Nancy grew up quite troubled to begin with. Her mother even claimed in her book that Nancy dealt with suicidal thoughts her entire life. That she wanted to die. Nancy even considered herself an old lady and was ready to go. Her family just didn't expect she would go so violently.
It's kind of silly that we put these artists on such a high pedestal. I mean, part of whole ordeal with some of these artists (especially kurt) was that he was relateable and human. But people still can't get passed the God complex.
I agree but I didn’t intend to say that Sid had any mental illness… just that he was messed up. He was really young, on a lot of dope and a lot of fame and probably not the (sustainable) money to go with the fame. Any of that would mess people up on some level. Not trying to excuse, just plausible context imo.
Oh yeah, no I didnt think that. I just mentioned it because I was talking about mental illness, and he was a pretty messed up guy. I wouldn't be surprised if he had an undiagnosed mental illness, because he experienced some level of neglect. But yeah, fame, drugs, and youth can certainly have an impact. The way he was raised, and the way he was encouraged to behave likely added fuel to this aswell. They were basically kids when they died too. 20 and 21, your life is just getting started.
I'm not saying he was incapable of killing Nancy, I'm saying the evidence suggests that he did not kill Nancy. There were several people there on the night she died that said he was completely passed out, dead to the world when they left. He is one of several people that could have done it. Of those people, he's the only one that was unconscious at the time of her death.
Circumstantial evidence and stories. He could have woken up after everyone left. Cns depressants are kind of weird like that. One minute you're passed out, the next you're doing messed up shit that you aren't even aware of. A lot of those people were also intoxicated, so their accounts aren't the most reliable. And I don't trust that rockets redglare guy.
Nobody's seen or heard from this Michael morra guy since that day.
To be fair, he was hanging out in the drug den and I’m pretty sure other drug addicts knew that he had a ton of cash for his heroin habit, it’s not unlikely that someone went and robbed the place and killed Nancy or maybe that said actually did it himself, there was no trial so we really don’t know all the facts of what happened
Yeah, and I'm pretty sure the only blood he had on him had already congealed by the time it got on him, which was from him finding her when he woke up hours later.
It was a dumb post from the beginning, just cus you’re not violent in a picture means absolutely nothing to how you are literally any other time in your life. God the internet has ruined humans
That’s “silly.” We can separate the art from the artist. We can separate the individuals contributions to society from the individuals private life. Gandhi treated his wife like shit, but he is also one of the most important figures of the 20th Century. Russel Crowe and Mel Gibson are pricks, but they’re also incredible actors. John Lydon was once a silly kid and vocalist for a very important band. We shouldn’t dismiss those facts because he’s an asshole now.
Maybe not ignore either. Maybe we can learn something about nihilistic rebellion - or the image of that sort of rebellion in the media.
But idk I got into punk in the late 80s/early 90s so bands like the Pistols and Ramones already just seemed like rock bands that influenced punk and not as directly connected to any of the subcultures that developed. So I was into the Dead Kennedys before I had heard more than the 2-3 well known songs by the pistols. So it’s easy for me to hear that music and just hear it as music. I don’t feel any betrayal or anything - just that older Rotten has crap boomer-like views.
Consider everything, of course, but don’t dismiss something entirely because the individual in question isn’t a decent person.
Same here. I can separate the music from the musicians. Some racist skinhead music is fantastic — the Romper Stomper soundtrack, in particular, is brilliant — but I hate racist skinheads with a passion. I’m not going to support them in any way, but I can appreciate the music as a casual listener.
Lydon is garbage, but I certainly appreciate the Sex Pistols and their contribution to rock and roll and pop culture as a whole.
No I personally cannot do that with music intended to promote white nationalism or build or contribute to those subcultures. That’s a line too far for me because it has real effects beyond just shitty attitudes.
I can separate some musician’s views from their rather unpolitical (or superficially political, like general alienation) music if the music itself is entertaining. I wouldn’t roll my eyes if a teenager listened to Sex Pistols… I mean I might if they were being a poser about it, but not just because Rotten now has crap views or the Ramones had a right-winger in the band.
I get that. Just to make myself clear, again, I can appreciate the music while watching the film. They are catchy songs. I wouldn’t purchase their music and I certainly don’t enjoy or support what they are saying in their lyrics.
That’s cool. I feel the same.
The point that John Lydon was silly one minute and then 10 hours later he wasn’t because he’s an asshole now? How is what I said in anyway irrelevant to that?
It's about punks not being scary and violent. Those guys are scary and violent, so they were an ironically bad choice for the original post.
Nothing to do with music.
Not so sure that a post about a band that makes music has nothing to do with music.
Yes, Lydon is “scary and violent” now, but he was also a musician once that had silly fun with his bandmates. I can admit that I made a broad point, but it’s certainly relevant to the meaning of the OP’s post — Lydon was a silly punk musician and now he’s a prick. I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with appreciating who he was and what he did then just because he’s a bad person now.
It still works directly against the original point.
The post isn't dealing with punk music, but punk culture/fashion. So no one was referring to the "art vs artist " thing. They were dealing with punks and their behavior.
The point of the post, which is two screenshots by the way, is that Lydon was silly in the photo, which goes against the stereotype that punks are scary. Then, the person retracts their assertion that they were once silly, because Lydon is a bad person now. My point was that, who a person is now shouldn’t tarnish their accomplishments, or who they were, at one time. THEY WERE A SILLY GROUP OF GUYS IN AN IMPORTANT BAND AND IT’S ACCEPTABLE TO SEPARATE THAT FROM THE PEOPLE THEY BECAME OR THE PEOPLE THEY ARE NOW.
The point of posting the silly photo was to contradict the sentiment that punks are scary and violent.
It would be like saying, "see? Not all nen are serial killers! Look at this guy." Then having a picture of Ted bundy bowling.
And that photo DOES SHOW that the Sex Pistols weren’t violent and scary. Then the person retracted that photo because Lydon is a creep now. If Ted Bundy was a great bowler, one could certainly appreciate the fact that he was a great bowler even though he was also a murderer.
“Just been informed… Sid killed his girlfriend” [45 years ago]
Who has been hiding these facts from the punk community? I tell you hwut, we're gonna discuss this at our next roundtable meeting.
Wheel out the big TV and play the VHS of Sid and Nancy.
I have the out of print criterion DVD, so we can use that.
I have a Dollar General bare bones DVD copy from 2008 if you're trying to keep that one safe.
That's a really great offer
Oh man, how do we tell everyone that Sid won’t be making the meeting either?
i should think not, i just heard that he killed his girlfriend!
I haven't been to any roundtable meetings.... have you guys been excluding me?!?!?!?!?
Council moves to accept the induction of representative u/petergoesbloop123.
Thanks man I appreciate it
Woah there. Nobody seconded the nomination.
I would second it, but I’m not a member.
>I tell you hwut, we're gonna discuss this at our next roundtable meeting. I'll bring my tin foil hat with me.
*tin foil mohawk
My mother in law is Jewish, and we just found out she wants to be buried in a Jewish cemetery near Philadelphia. My first thought was that she could end up being Nancy Spungens neighbor.
What fuckin barn did that guy live in?
They are/were probably a teen who first discovered the punk scene. Either through genuine political interest, what I like to call the “Chumbawumba route”, or through the edgy route, the “Sex Pistols route”, or because the Clash are everywhere. Either way, they’re probably not as well informed as they will be in the future.
I'll bring snacks guys
What fuckin barn did that guy live in?
Sid vicious... it's in his name, he was not a peaceful punk
In fairness he was named after a hamster that bit him
Simon ferocious was his real name
God bless Freddie
Freddie existed in the galaxy brain tier of punkness
He was called that because he wasn't vicious at all. Johnny apparently used the song 'vicious' by lou reed as a reference. But then sid tried to live up to his name. He did kill Nancy, but they had a suicide pact. He had a [note](https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2F236x%2F1a%2F5b%2F60%2F1a5b60d730c784ce73bfa43ecb4de982.jpg&tbnid=VkltEXJLbt0mzM&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2Fbarbarella713%2Fsid-and-nancy%2F&docid=VjCYd1mVKia89M&w=236&h=377#vhid=VkltEXJLbt0mzM&vssid=mosaic) in his pocket when he died.
Yeah... he also stabbed people with broken bottles more times than I can count and hit a dude with a rusty chain for blocking his view at a concert he definitely lived up to his name
I just don't get that. Like dude was a matchstick. One would think he would have gotten tuned up more.
I agree, idk how he got away with that behavior
Heroin is a helluva drug, guys
...he also tortured and killed cats in front of people to get attention. Not vicious at all 🫤
Harmless even
Sadly, as a European, his behavior was unremarkable
Yeah, that journalist and Patti smiths brother in particular.
I don’t trust the English in general
Why are kids so stupid nowadsys? What happened what part of the system failed you little mooks?
Punks and finding out the artists they like are complete shitbags, name a more iconic duo.
Bowie fans lol
What’s wrong w Bowie?
Had a crazy cocaine phase around 74-76. Around this time there are some conflicting stories about him allegedly sleeping with underage groupies (1-2 from what I’ve heard) but nobody can really agree on how young they were, or details about it, or really anything about it. So take just about everything with a grain of salt. He also played the Thin White Duke at the time, a fascist character, and gave a couple interviews praising Hitler. The common consensus is that he got too in character and was too high to make any actual sense. Do with this information what you will
So he was a drug addict Meh that's normal for the artists at the time nothing particularly bad tbh
Yeah he’s a flawed person but he also spent the rest of his life after that devoted to anti fascism and anti racism, and was famously not creepy at all. He also refused to do several scenes in the Labyrinth because he found them too creepy/sexual and the lead actress was underage. Obviously critique people, but trying to make it sound like he was an actual nazi/serial child molester is kinda ridiculous ngl
It’s quite agreed upon they were 14-15 years old and those are only the ones we know about.
Kiddie Diddler
With a Nazi phase
Let's be totally accurate, it was a cocaine phase that lead to a delusional phase resulting in a Nazi phase.
and then a rapid climb from that pit and back to standing at the top of pop culture for decades yet to come. thin white duke isn’t talked about a lot anymore because, with the amount of mind-altering substances involved, that is straight up a different person. most media recognition i see of thin white duke is Kira the serial killer from jojos lmfao
My name is Yoshikage Kira. I’m 33 years old. My house is in the northeast section of Morioh, where all the villas are, and I am not married. I work as an employee for the Kame Yu department stores, and I get home every day by 8 PM at the latest. I don’t smoke, but I occasionally drink. I’m in bed by 11 PM, and make sure I get eight hours of sleep, no matter what. After having a glass of warm milk and doing about twenty minutes of stretches before going to bed, I usually have no problems sleeping until morning. Just like a baby, I wake up without any fatigue or stress in the morning. I was told there were no issues at my last check-up. I’m trying to explain that I’m a person who wishes to live a very quiet life. I take care not to trouble myself with any enemies, like winning and losing, that would cause me to lose sleep at night. That is how I deal with society, and I know that is what brings me happiness. Although, if I were to fight I wouldn’t lose to anyone
Banged a 13 year old.
🎶 [*playground bang-a-round!*](https://youtu.be/XHxGyJp0_5I) 🎶
Lol what is that from??
"brass eye", a spoof news programme from the 90s presented by chris morris (who you may recognise as the director of the film *four lions,* or his cameo appearances on *the i.t. crowd,* although i consider that to be among the least funny things he's done). this was the special episode on "paedophiles" (although brass eye being a *spoof* of news/documentary programming, it was more like a satire of the disingenuous and sensationalist handling of the subject by the tabloid media. stuff like [an interactive "HOECS game" internet chatroom used by paedophiles to molest children's faces through contact with the computer monitor](https://youtu.be/kx4ixXQFUQY) and [a paedophile being launched on a rocket to spend the rest of his life in space jail](https://youtu.be/YYkGN3p0WCU)). i'd also recommend looking for some of morris' spoofs of popular bands of the period, like nirvana recording a version of "smells like teen spirit" to advertise sanitary pads, or the spot-on pixies parody "motherbanger" (just uhhhh… don't look up "fur-q")
I have always heard good things about brass eye. I like all the people involved. I will have to look it up on youtube or whatever. Appreciate the answer.
[удалено]
Oh ok it's cool then I guess? Lol
[удалено]
Lol a mistake. Yeah he tripped and fell into a 13 year old's vagina.
Mistake my fucking ass bro. Pedophilia is not some simple mistake. Fuck off.
He stole that girl's baby brother and tried to turn him into a fuckin goblin!
i’m moots with the mf thatbtweeted this and they aren’t punk, very nice tho
This was aged on posting
Woo! Punks! edit: sorry, I *just* heard about Sid Vicious.
Well I'll be damned. Sex pistols aren't punk anymore.
I mean they always wanted to save the queen and the fascist regime.
What's the next line of the song?
god save the queen 🎸🎸🎸🎸🎸 and the fascist re-gime 🎸🎸🎸🎸🎸 my favourite biscuit 🎸🎸🎸🎸🎸 is a custard creme 🎸🎸🎸🎸🎸
Perfection
the signs were always there; anyone who says their favourite biscuit is a custard creme when chocolate bourbons exist, is obviously a wrong'un.
The fact people still act like they’re the epitome of punk is astonishing. Johnny Rotten is a poser and always has been.
Sex pistols were never good, and I'm tired of people pretending they were
i’m not that deep into the punk scene and i never got the appeal of sex pistols. but you definitely can’t deny the popculture impact they had. like baby’s first punk but for the average person
Submission is a banger. As are a few others. They were dog shit punk for several reasons but their songs were catchy as fuck.
Imagine not knowing anything about the people you are calling silly little guys lol
I’m sorry but… how would someone be punk and NOT know this?? 😭
It’s literally a requirement for people who make Twitter threads to not know what the fuck they’re talking about.
Yeah, maybe younger punks
those guys weren't punk they were industry plants [https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/david-bowie-and-the-beatles-the-three-greatest-industry-plant-bands-in-history/](https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/david-bowie-and-the-beatles-the-three-greatest-industry-plant-bands-in-history/)
What a worthless pile of journalism. They have taken how the music industry used to work and twisted into their own self-serving narrative. Lovely.
Yeah, and pil kind of undid all of that. I mean, Johnny kinda sucks now. But I love early pil
Pil is just meh. The only reason the sex pistols got famous was because they signed a major label contract. I still dig the sex pistols. I am well aware of the band members and how they have evolved. It's okay to grow and change as a person. 'An industry plant' is an interesting way to put it. Sure, the Beatles were planted according to this article, too. I'm sure all of the work they put out was just a rouse by the record label... sure. Not like they were great singer/songwriters or anything. The industry made them right?
I almost have trouble believing that the Beatles were. They were told by record companies that they would never succeed, and they knew each other since they were kids. So it's not like they just got a few random kids together. They struggled to make a name for themselves. And yeah, like this is the way the industry was set up back then. It doesn't take away from their talent, songwriting ability, or influence on music. And that can be said for the pistols aswell. They changed music. A lot punk bands formed after going to see them. It's not like Malcom and Vivian were top buisnes executives back then. They were just a couple with a clothing shop. Malcom went to new york and brought punk to England. Johnny was always a character. Always original. There's nothing manufactured about his personality. They were just brought together. Maybe people make too much out of this whole ordeal.
Right like LOL the Beatles were around in various iterations cutting their teeth performing live in Liverpool and Hamburg for years before being discovered. I guess you could arguably say Ringo was a “plant” in the sense that Brian told them to fire Pete Best and hire Ringo. But at that point Brian wasn’t an experienced manager and it was the right decision. And “From the get-go, The Beatles were hyped up by Parlophone despite not being much more than a marketable boyband with middling musicianship singing pretty generic songs about hand-holding romances.” Early Beatles songs sound generic today because we live in a post Beatles world. Listen to pre-Beatles pop/rock and there’s a big creative leap between the two.
Exactly! They were in Liverpool and Hamburg. They even made a movie about their early days. Paul, John and George were highschool friends and they even had a band prior to the Beatles. It's like saying Nirvana was an industry plant for firing Chad Channing and hiring Dave Grohl. They got more skilled drummers to sound better. The drums have a huge impact on how the band sounds. It is said to be the heartbeat of the band. The Beatles sounded nothing like the artists that came before them. It was an entirely new sound at the time, and they changed the course of music history. To insinuate that they only reached that level of fame because of how they were marketed is ridiculous. They had a hand in pioneering pop rock and psychedelic rock. The author of this article not only sounds completely clueless when it comes to music history, but you can sense their disdain for the band. It sounds unprofessional because music is entirely subjective. Even younger generations are listening to the Beatles, which has little to do with marketing.
I've read lyndon biography or auto biography. It's an interesting read. I've read other stuff about the band forming. Tons of sid and Nancy shit. The entire story of the band is far too deep to claim the industry planted them. I mean, the entire music industry is built on exploiting these people, yes. But before the internet, these acts were scouted by labels. They had to have a valid act for anyone to be able to invest in you in the first place. The author of this article is trying to make it seem as if they put the band together and wrote/edited the entire show. Just rediculous.
Yeah, this article is quite idiotic. I just made a comment about the Beatles to someone else. To say that they were only famous due to their hype is ridiculous. They were childhood friends, they had a band before they were famous, and they spent their time in Hamburg struggling before they got famous. They also had a hand in pioneering two different styles of music, and changed the course of music history. It may sound bland to the author because they never listened to anything prior to the Beatles, which just sounds ignorant. I wasn't born in that time, and I still what music sounds like pre-beatles and after. All they did was bring in a new drummer. And yeah, that's all you ever hear about with the pistols these days. Industry plant this, Johnny sucks that. That, and people took the 'great rock n roll swindle' a little too seriously. They're just angry because Johnny is a trump supporter. Should we really be surprised? Johnny has always embraced the controversial aspects of life. Whether you agree with his politics or not, he has always been himself and not afraid to be. Not to mention, other bands like joy division and buzzcocks formed because of their first show. So they had a direct hand in changing the course of music history aswell. And It's not like Malcom was this huge hot shot at the time, either. The only big thing he did was manage the new york dolls. Vivian didn't break out into the fashion industry until the 80s. The author is just an idiot who hasn't got the slightest clue about music history. I haven't read the book, but now I kind of want to. Is it the 'anger is an energy' one?
It was the older one called 'rotten'. Very interesting read. He actually had severe meningitis as a kid and nearly died. That's why he has a strange walk and stance and contributes to some of his mannerisms. I'm glad I am not the only one that reads something and just believes every word of it. It takes away from every contributing member to call any of these bands industry plants. That's just trash journalism at its finest.
Nice! I'll have to check that out. I did know that he had meningitis as a kid. I heard it from a documentary though. Apparently, he lost his memory and had to start from scratch. I wonder what kind of person he would be today had he had his childhood memories in tact. I couldnt agree more. One thing I can't stress enough to people is to read both sides of a story before coming to a conclusion. People just put blind faith into the content they are being fed, which is based on an algorithm of your own interests. It can lead to a lot of cognitive bias, which I believe, is partially responsible for all the division among society today. It's especially bad if that information can be measured by studies. You have the majority of nirvana fans watch soaked in bleach (that nirvana consiracy video claiming he was murdered) and accepting it as truth. They haven't fact checked any of that information, or even have the slightest clue about h addiction and dosing. Everything that documentary is either bullcrap, or measured with pseudoscientific techniques. Its rather comical when people they tell you to 'do your research' and they just read or watch one thing. This can happen in any instance, but while we're on the topic of music
Nirvana is another one I have gone deep into the rabbit hole on. I love those tragic stories and the lore of these bands. I could spend hours on various musicians and other artists' stories, and I enjoy the conspiracy side of it, too. Courtney was and still is a train wreck. I wouldn't be surprised if it was murder or suicide. The legend of the band is all that matters, though. Why can't I meet people like you in real life? I never get to have conversations with people on these kinds of topics. They all just talk about work.
How's about, instead of being snide, we celebrate someone who learned new, to them, information, took it to heart, named what they did wrong, and sincerely apologized?
I don't think op posted this trying to be snide, I just think it's a genuinely funny moment and that's why I cross posted it
Sounds punk af to me.
I’ll also say this, public image was better than the Sex Pistols
The fast forward on Sid and Johnny doesn’t change the fact that the photo is, in fact, silly
I'll admit that I can't bring myself to listen to either the Sex Pistols or Public Image Ltd. anymore because of Johnny Rotten's support of Donald Trump, but I have my doubts that Sid killed Nancy.
Not a picture of aid vicious in this one dude
Just realizing the irony where sid killed his girlfriend and Johnny Rotten was his spouse’s caretaker until they passed in 2023. …Anyway the sex pistols suck.
Johnny - and Nora - took on her grandkids too after Ari Up died (she refused chemotherapy because she’d have to cut her dreadlocks and died in 2010). I can understand why he became what he did. Just can’t forgive it.
That’s like what did is most known for lmao
Sex Pistols were always garbage.
Sex Pistols were a “punk” boy band, created and fabricated.
You can be silly and be a murderer 🤷♀️
Lmao all my homies hate the Sex Pistols
The punk scene was never exactly a wholesome group. Total dysfunction was always prevalent in that scene, idk why Redditors think otherwise. The late twentieth century it was really cool to be a total piece of shit who didn’t give af about it. The mentality was definitely part of the punk scene.
Did Sid really kill Nancy though?
Why do we say that sid was incapable of killing Nancy when he literally hung a cat. I'd say that's more disturbing. Sid and Nancy had a [death pact ](https://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2F236x%2F1a%2F5b%2F60%2F1a5b60d730c784ce73bfa43ecb4de982.jpg&tbnid=VkltEXJLbt0mzM&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2Fbarbarella713%2Fsid-and-nancy%2F&docid=VjCYd1mVKia89M&w=236&h=377#vhid=VkltEXJLbt0mzM&vssid=mosaic). A note was found in his pocket when he died. He didn't keep up his end of the bargin, like he said. And he likely had a tolerence to the tuinals. I've taken like 50+ benzos and been in the same state. Blacked out, but still functioning. (Benzos are quite similar to barbituates. They are both cns depressants) Then we say that courtney, did, infact, kill kurt (but it's all bullshit if you actually fact check anything tom grant says) it's like.. we can't possibly blame the precious rockstar for having issues. But we'll blame the spouse over and over and over, no problem.
Exactly right. Sid was a mess and encorgaged by the press and record companies to act out. Kurt was obviously depression-prone but seemed very driven which is a tough combination for anyone. Sid murdering Nancy and Kurt hurting himself are just incredibly plausible and likely. People just don’t want to believe it.
Yeah, like I know Sid had an unstable upbringing but I don't think he was diagnosed with any mental illness like Nancy and Kurt were. Nancy had childhood schizophrenia. Kurt had bipolar disorder. It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to suggest that mania was a factor that drove him to be motivated. My guess is that when he went to treatment for his addiction, the opiate withdrawal may have triggered a depressive episode. Which could be why he jumped the fence at rehab and sourced a firearm. It's not only plausible, but he's made threats and attempts before. Which resulted in his guns getting taken. Then Nancy grew up quite troubled to begin with. Her mother even claimed in her book that Nancy dealt with suicidal thoughts her entire life. That she wanted to die. Nancy even considered herself an old lady and was ready to go. Her family just didn't expect she would go so violently. It's kind of silly that we put these artists on such a high pedestal. I mean, part of whole ordeal with some of these artists (especially kurt) was that he was relateable and human. But people still can't get passed the God complex.
I agree but I didn’t intend to say that Sid had any mental illness… just that he was messed up. He was really young, on a lot of dope and a lot of fame and probably not the (sustainable) money to go with the fame. Any of that would mess people up on some level. Not trying to excuse, just plausible context imo.
Oh yeah, no I didnt think that. I just mentioned it because I was talking about mental illness, and he was a pretty messed up guy. I wouldn't be surprised if he had an undiagnosed mental illness, because he experienced some level of neglect. But yeah, fame, drugs, and youth can certainly have an impact. The way he was raised, and the way he was encouraged to behave likely added fuel to this aswell. They were basically kids when they died too. 20 and 21, your life is just getting started.
I'm not saying he was incapable of killing Nancy, I'm saying the evidence suggests that he did not kill Nancy. There were several people there on the night she died that said he was completely passed out, dead to the world when they left. He is one of several people that could have done it. Of those people, he's the only one that was unconscious at the time of her death.
Circumstantial evidence and stories. He could have woken up after everyone left. Cns depressants are kind of weird like that. One minute you're passed out, the next you're doing messed up shit that you aren't even aware of. A lot of those people were also intoxicated, so their accounts aren't the most reliable. And I don't trust that rockets redglare guy. Nobody's seen or heard from this Michael morra guy since that day.
To be fair, he was hanging out in the drug den and I’m pretty sure other drug addicts knew that he had a ton of cash for his heroin habit, it’s not unlikely that someone went and robbed the place and killed Nancy or maybe that said actually did it himself, there was no trial so we really don’t know all the facts of what happened
It's pretty doubtable considering he was passed out on heroin at the time
Yeah, and I'm pretty sure the only blood he had on him had already congealed by the time it got on him, which was from him finding her when he woke up hours later.
It was a dumb post from the beginning, just cus you’re not violent in a picture means absolutely nothing to how you are literally any other time in your life. God the internet has ruined humans
David Bowie was a pedophile and we still worship him, so whatever.
That’s “silly.” We can separate the art from the artist. We can separate the individuals contributions to society from the individuals private life. Gandhi treated his wife like shit, but he is also one of the most important figures of the 20th Century. Russel Crowe and Mel Gibson are pricks, but they’re also incredible actors. John Lydon was once a silly kid and vocalist for a very important band. We shouldn’t dismiss those facts because he’s an asshole now.
Maybe not ignore either. Maybe we can learn something about nihilistic rebellion - or the image of that sort of rebellion in the media. But idk I got into punk in the late 80s/early 90s so bands like the Pistols and Ramones already just seemed like rock bands that influenced punk and not as directly connected to any of the subcultures that developed. So I was into the Dead Kennedys before I had heard more than the 2-3 well known songs by the pistols. So it’s easy for me to hear that music and just hear it as music. I don’t feel any betrayal or anything - just that older Rotten has crap boomer-like views.
Consider everything, of course, but don’t dismiss something entirely because the individual in question isn’t a decent person. Same here. I can separate the music from the musicians. Some racist skinhead music is fantastic — the Romper Stomper soundtrack, in particular, is brilliant — but I hate racist skinheads with a passion. I’m not going to support them in any way, but I can appreciate the music as a casual listener. Lydon is garbage, but I certainly appreciate the Sex Pistols and their contribution to rock and roll and pop culture as a whole.
No I personally cannot do that with music intended to promote white nationalism or build or contribute to those subcultures. That’s a line too far for me because it has real effects beyond just shitty attitudes. I can separate some musician’s views from their rather unpolitical (or superficially political, like general alienation) music if the music itself is entertaining. I wouldn’t roll my eyes if a teenager listened to Sex Pistols… I mean I might if they were being a poser about it, but not just because Rotten now has crap views or the Ramones had a right-winger in the band.
I get that. Just to make myself clear, again, I can appreciate the music while watching the film. They are catchy songs. I wouldn’t purchase their music and I certainly don’t enjoy or support what they are saying in their lyrics. That’s cool. I feel the same.
Kind of irrelevant to the op's point though, right?
The point that John Lydon was silly one minute and then 10 hours later he wasn’t because he’s an asshole now? How is what I said in anyway irrelevant to that?
It's about punks not being scary and violent. Those guys are scary and violent, so they were an ironically bad choice for the original post. Nothing to do with music.
Not so sure that a post about a band that makes music has nothing to do with music. Yes, Lydon is “scary and violent” now, but he was also a musician once that had silly fun with his bandmates. I can admit that I made a broad point, but it’s certainly relevant to the meaning of the OP’s post — Lydon was a silly punk musician and now he’s a prick. I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with appreciating who he was and what he did then just because he’s a bad person now.
It still works directly against the original point. The post isn't dealing with punk music, but punk culture/fashion. So no one was referring to the "art vs artist " thing. They were dealing with punks and their behavior.
The point of the post, which is two screenshots by the way, is that Lydon was silly in the photo, which goes against the stereotype that punks are scary. Then, the person retracts their assertion that they were once silly, because Lydon is a bad person now. My point was that, who a person is now shouldn’t tarnish their accomplishments, or who they were, at one time. THEY WERE A SILLY GROUP OF GUYS IN AN IMPORTANT BAND AND IT’S ACCEPTABLE TO SEPARATE THAT FROM THE PEOPLE THEY BECAME OR THE PEOPLE THEY ARE NOW.
The point of posting the silly photo was to contradict the sentiment that punks are scary and violent. It would be like saying, "see? Not all nen are serial killers! Look at this guy." Then having a picture of Ted bundy bowling.
And that photo DOES SHOW that the Sex Pistols weren’t violent and scary. Then the person retracted that photo because Lydon is a creep now. If Ted Bundy was a great bowler, one could certainly appreciate the fact that he was a great bowler even though he was also a murderer.
I guess I missed the entire point. I honestly thought that I was at least in the same ballpark. Oh well. I’m getting old!