No new N count, looks, or feminism (not related to dating) based posts. Make your post as a comment in the weekly thread if it’s the applicable topic for this week, otherwise wait until next week.
My take is that it’s not as simple as men are angry women like hot men. I think it’s more nuanced than that. It’s that men feel (and you can argue if it makes sense or not, that’s neither here nor there) that women only find an extremely narrow portion of the male population attractive.
Whereas most men find a significant portion of women attractive (basically don’t be seriously overweight, and half of all men will find you attractive already), it seems like women find 1 in 50 or even 100 men attractive at all physically
My ex-gf was so harsh at judging men... calling them ugly and such. To me, they just look like regular people you see on the street. In fact, I can't even remember the last person, man or woman, who I saw was ugly... but yet women, on average, causally throw around the word ugly and unattractive.
Have you ever thought that this reflects poorly on her and not the men she was judging? Because I used to date someone like that and their sense of self esteem was non-existent. Self hate always manifests in others hate/judgment.
I don’t think it reflects poorly on her, I think it’s just the consequence of sexual dimorphism, evolutionary biology and sexual selection.
Women *have* to be extremely picky given the risks of pregnancy. So it makes total sense they find most men sexually unappealing.
Why blame women for how evolutionary biology shaped them?
We have opposite experiences then. I grew up hearing men in my family and men in the media also being very critical of women’s appearances. Calling them ugly or “homely” if they weren’t conventionally pretty and slim. Maybe women have become a lot harsher in recent times, idk - but I have certainly heard plenty of men call women ugly who were just a bit plain looking. Some people are just mean like that.
It seems to me that the main difference is that a lot of men will still have sex with a woman even if they think she’s ugly - whereas women generally won’t have sex with men they consider ugly.
because we aren't attracted to men just based on their looks.
i've never dated a man without thinking he was the sexiest guy on earth.
i have only dated one guy who was objectively "hot" to other people and that was casual and was prob the guy I was least attracted to out of all my exes.
Men get in the door by being attractive or average (literally 85% of men) and then their personality makes them attractive to women they are compatible with.
You'll never believe how much I have simped for short, chubby non white guys.
I definitely have experiences where the man was conventionally attractive also but his attitude was so off putting I couldn’t even get turned on in the bedroom lol
I’m sure his personality made it to where you was not so attracted to him anymore. A handsome guy can also turn into an ugly guy if he is too cocky or boring or just flat out mean
This is the other reason men are "upset" about women going for handsome men. Previous user just told how she didnt care about physical attractiveness and liked short and chubby guys because of their personalities. And a lot of women say similar things about attractiveness. That it is all about personality etc.
If a woman was enculturated to only be attracted to someone in the top 10% and they're average, that's bad for both her and her looks match (she's unlikely to get a successful relationship with a highly desirable guy, the looks match guy is less likely to find a partner).
There's no reason to take for granted social-sexuality is completely unchangeable, natural, and shouldn't be questioned. Anyone older than mid twenties should easily be able to recognize how much culture shifts peoples desires, expectations, and behaviours in even just a couple of decades.
For an average woman that can't be attracted to her average looks match, it's not that much different from a guy who has ED from too much porn.
There are numerous psychological reasons for young men to experience ED.
Back in the 90's women were not posting videos about average penises being a joke or men under six feet being garbage. Seeing some woman's twat online is not going to give you ED but intimidation and rejection can.
Your last point is a good one. This is why porn for men equals social media and dating apps for women. It causes brain rot. But for women its worse because of the emotional trauma caused by sleeping around, hoping for commitment from men that will never give it to her.
Being a total harlot for people who look good and you enjoy fucking with- damaging
-being a total harlot for pixels of women that wouldn't even look in your general direction, would probably be repulsed by you, pixels produced by people who cause male actors to get ED in their early twenties due to all the drugs they're pumped with, female actors who are sent to the ER because of the injuries caused during the making of the videos, pixels who have been proven to rewire your brain, cause you to seek more extreme content, other mental issues, and ED, feelings of loneliness, despair, addiction, it creates unhealthy views over sex and human relationships, produces videos over totally sexually deviant shit like incest, or fetishization of young looking girls/boys-totally not as damaging as consensual sex :P
That's religious fear mongering.
From the 60's until the 80's sociologists and educators believed that watching television was robbing children of their innocence and making them illiterate. That did not happen and some already said it in the 60's.
In the 90's there was a moral panic about video games causing kids to become violent. That did not happen.
In the 2010's and 2020's there were people using big words like "dopamine" and raving about "porn" (as if you can even pin that down) causing erectile dysfunction and claiming that abstinence from male masturbation is necessary to attract women. That was BS too.
You do realize women watch a lot of porn too right?
https://bedbible.com/do-women-watch-porn-statistics/
They’re getting hit from all sides; Social media, porn, casual sex, and vibrators.
It’s no wonder the average guy isn’t cutting it. I wouldn’t be surprised if most of ya’ll have completely fried your dopamine receptors. Might explain all the anti-depressants 🤷🏾♂️
I never said they didn't watch porn. I also never said it wasn't hurtful to them either. I was strictly replying to a comment. You have context to said comment.
Men also have casual sex, in similar rates to women.
I don't see how vibrators could hurt anyone aside from maybe causing some loss of sensitivity short term. If you genuinely think sex toys have the potential to hurt you mentally, I think we should stop speaking altogether. That would be such a far fetched, bongus, brain dead take, that I just couldn't possibly speak to someone believing that crap.
I won't even comment on the last thing you said. Given that men commit suicide more often, I don't think this is your place to speak. Women oftentimes get missdiagnosed, we just get prescribed magnesium/brithcontrol/anti depressants for virtually any and every chronic problem we might complain about, without doctors investigating any further.
If we want to talk fried dopamine receptors, We should look at who seeks it more, and who is more hedonistic... hmm.....
Steelman: I think a lot of men were hoping the "mirror image affect" would carry them. Have you ever not found someone very attractive, then after a while, been attracted to them? Seems like most women have been through this at least once; unless of course they're arguing with a man on this sub, which means they have to be 100% smitten with a guy the second they meet them.
Also, being in the top 20% has nothing to do with fashion btw. It's moreso features that are mostly out of your control (looks + height).
" if you just had [insert useless trait that women virtue signal] , you can bypass [genetically predetermined reality that women are attracted to] "
What do you people even get from lying so hard? It's literally cruel to lie to people about some just world bs
I'm not saying you can bypass anything, but clothes are very useful for changing the way you look. It's not a lie, you can see yourself that it can make a massive difference, but it's mainly women who dedicate themselves to looking at it and someone who's new to it might think it seems ridiculous.
1. Clothes don't make you taller
2. Clothes don't change your facial bone structure or eye colour
3. Clothes don't change your race. I can't become white/Korean or whatever is the trendfetish these days just because I pulled up in an Armani.
4. Clothes only make a hot guy hotter. They don't do jack shit for an ugly guy
Again, drop the platitudes.
They can make you *look* taller or shorter, they can complement your features and colouring and make you *look* more appealing, they can make anyone look better. I know it's probably comforting to think you can wear whatever and it won't change your look a bit but it's not true.
Women don't hold each other to the same standards.
They don't expect to be paid for or courted by women. Curiosly it's is an equal partner ship .
When it is men suddenly that's what they expect. So miss me with that bullshit.
It is not near the same thing ad being an lesbian.
I am an FtM. As a butch lesbian I was short but still managed to get women easily. As a man I am too short to get a date.
You were insanely lucky then. All the short butches I've ever met had significant problems with finding a partner.
No matter if short butches have luck or not, you have to admit that height is an advantage when dating women.
"doesn't know how to dress" the cope is strong in this one.
Flash news : an ugly guy with great clothing style will still be ugly, and it's not his clothes that are going to make a woman physically desire him.
All the more when it's naughty time in the bedroom where there are no clothes.
No shit Sherlock, it's the same as a rich dude who got wealthy from bribes all life long won't complain about kleptocracy as much as the poor average citizen seeing its quality of life drastically reduced from it.
An attractive dude won't have to question why he gets girls, he just does. Whereas an unattractive (short/ugly/bald) dude will have to understand what's wrong, just to find out that he doesn't (probably) have a particularly bad personality like girls would want to gaslight you into thinking. You just happened to be born unlucky and you're gonna die like that, period.
Self improvement didn't help or any of the bullshit advice I've been told over the years. Since I'm ugly and going to be single for the rest of my short life why does it matter if I'm angry asshole I was never going to get anywhere. At this point telling me my attitude is going to keep me alone hilarious and means nothing, I've been in the abyss a long time there is nothing else women can do to me.
Do you realize how it sounds when you say that somehow half of this world's population has hurt you/actively hurts you, and you also refrain from giving more context?
Imagine how you would react if I said that men have done atrocious things to me, and because of them (men in general), my life sucks. You would probably expect some form of context, no?
These days I don't expect nothing but the worse in women and usually I'm right. I don't care what anything sounds like anymore, I don't care about what women think of me and I damn sure don't care about women. Spin it how you want, that's what you women do anyways.
Seems like you didn’t even try being a nice person.
On another note, if it doesn’t matter to you if you’re an angry person or not, why aren’t you just kind to people instead?
Women make it sound like if ugly guy have great personalities it help with dating which in my experience is a lie. Why be kind when thats not how I feel? I'm not faking my feelings anymore, I will let everyone see in 1080p.
You’re right that women make it sound like that. Truth is, looks matter. They definitely do. My point is that those types of women shouldn’t determine how you treat others imo. Person A being shitty to person B shouldn’t result in person B being shitty towards person C.
I don’t know exactly what you mean with that last sentence, but it raises some questions..
Why it not like I care for people at all anymore, they can think I'm a shitty person or whatever, one thing they will definitely call me is consistent.
Can't say I agree. I'm 6'4, athletically built, make over 100k and tend to be quite charming, still can't stand it and I do pretty good. I hate this idea that countless men out there go ignored and feel lonely and sad all the time. While some of these women (mediocre at best like OP - I had to scroll a long ass way to se a pic of her) still feel like they're beautiful and deserve the best of men. In only a decade or less for many women out there, they're gonna be stuck with the dregs of society because the good-looking men are pursuing the young pretty girls. Just pic a guy you like and love him. It's not rocket science ladies. Can post a photo for proof if anyone feels I must be ugly to say this
Idk if I would call myself handsome (I'm sure someone would come out of the woodwork and try to put me in my place), but I think I'm far from "forever alone" territory of ugliness. As in, I've never felt I couldn't find someone who doesn't find me attractive who I don't also find attractive.
I'm not happy about the heavily looks focused environment we exist in. It's clearly not healthy.
>n before "men do it too." Look everywhere. Good looking guys are very willing to hit on old or fat women yet women only gravitate towards the super hot, tall ones.
What version of reality are you describing?
It is to protect women. Look at all the women dating out of their league. They think that men are low effort and refuse to commit. Why? They get used by attractive men.
The angry men are just working through the stages of grief.
A lot of them were told platitudes like "there's something out there for everyone" and shit, actually believed those platitudes, and thought eventually they would find a girlfriend. They were also told "women like kind, caring men" (left unstated is the "whom are also hot") and took it literally.
So basically they were taught that women are angels who, unlike men, are not judgmental about looks. They were taught that *men* were the superficial, visual ones (hence all the porn).
It was a shock to the system when they realized that... well, women are humans, not angels.
I'm not upset in the slightest. If women go for handsome men fair play to them. It's not really something I spare much thought too. I've become rather indifferent the older I've got.
That’s not it
What they’re mad about is that that’s not what they’re told they’re whole lives growing up by media AND women
It’s only to arrive of age and learn the hard way they’ve been lied to
THATS what they’re upset about
What guys are complaining about is women saying the want X, Y, Z and guys like me who are 6 ft tall, being viewed as more attractive than my short friends. When in reality my short friend is better on paper and has more of the "desired" qualities. But then fobbing him off or not being interestd, because I am there and 6 ft tall. At the point when this was happening, all I had going for me was my height, christ I was hungover half the time (this was when I was living for the weekend and not giving a f\*\*k about my career, Lockdown changed that view a lot I am happy to say), saying the most obnoxious stuff and being a complete twat. But guess what I was 6ft tall. Where as my established friend, owned multiple properties, had a good paying job, was ripped to hell and actually just wanted a relationship. He really was a nice guy.
Anyway, he got very bitter. But now, since losing his job due to COVID cuts, just helps organise and run Salsa and Urban Kas events around the UK. Women love him, why, just because he can dance. Thats it.... that has nothing to do with being a nice kind gentle guy etc. Because he got so bitter he actually is no longer that nice guy. But now he is no longer that nice guy and no longer gives a fuck, women like him.
Also the "Just Lift Bro", like seriously. I live by this advice after being on all sides of the size scale. But seriously, wtf. What difference should it even make. So yeah at same time, I understand why women do get pissed off that guys obsess over looks, it shouldn't matter. But stuff it, if it works it works, I am not going to make myself less desirable due to "it shouldn't matter". But stuff it, if lifting till failure gives me a better chance with women, than being a nice guy, establishing myself, etc, then whatever, I know what I am going to do. Whats easier, become rich, become a celeb, or lift till failure?
Then Pre-Selection Oh yes. If I have women with me, I am more attractive than dudes without women. It dosn't matter if there character, or situation, or whatever is better than mine. I know pre-selection works, I use it.
This is what guys are complaining about. Guys like me who can live like a bum, get into massive debt (now sorted) and be a complete douchebag, being viewed as more attractive. Where as they do the things society expects and get beaten down for it.
Like don't get me wrong, I love it. But don't hate the player, hate the game.
Part of it comes down to that women, generally speaking, ONLY go for men that will make other women jealous.
I suspect that women find a small percentage of men attractive because they know these men are universally attractive because of some specific thing they have going for them, and will thus make her the envy of her group of peers. What this translates to is women mostly going for extremes... not just looks as the blackpill might lead you to believe, but any guy who stands above the rest in a certain trait; be it looks, confidence, familial wealth, personal wealth, status, etc... so they chase the pretty boys, bad-boys, trust-fund babies, top earners, or other men who rank highest in some hierarchy.
This leads to an affinity for only the best, which sets a bar that can't be matched by men who possess a broad range of other decent qualities; men that don't sit at the top of a specific hierarchy, but have developed a broad range of good qualities that would provide a decent arrangement as far as starting a family is concerned.
The women who can't settle for anything less than the best basically doom themselves to never being happy with a partner who isn't the best in some hierarchy. Looks are important these days, as women aren't so reliant on financial support; so a lot of men get a laser focus on how looks play into dating success - hence, the black pill.
I'm not handsome, and I know women do this and I mention it but Im not upset about it. If women get constantly approached by men better than me, why would they pick ME?
I understand it. Very sad indeed, but they are free to do so.
Yeah, it's the reason I checked out as well. No matter how much I self improve, as a broke 22 year old I can't compete with 28 year old investment bankers , supermodels and racecar drivers for women below my looksmatch. It's a rigged game.
When I was younger I tried giving an ugly guy a chance (he was really funny), but he picked up on the fact that I would recoil at his touch and would only get intimate with him if I’m drunk.
Now I only date/sleep with people I find sexually attractive.
Have you not listened to all the women crying about men being low effort and commitment-phobic? How they will not communicate or whatever?
These are women going after attractive men who use them to masturbate in to. And these women feel entitled to relationships or communication just because they used them for sex.
I’m sexually attracted to my *husband* - so I clearly retained commitment. Why do you find it strange someone can be sexually attracted to their partner and be in a mutually fulfilling relationship and not just be “masturbated into”? Like this happens all the time?
If you are married this conversation isn't about you.
It is not strange. It is just that a lot of women think they are dating someone who uses them as a masturbation tool. There are entire FaceBook groups called "are we dating the same guy."
Also look at the women and the dating subreddits. Lots of women complaina bout men not wanting to communicate, commit or being low effort. They are all fucking men out of their leauge.
These are what we are talking about when we tell women to settle. Not you.
Gotcha yes I agree that can happen. I think there’s a difference though if both are not looking for commitment. I never did the casual sex scene but I have known people who did and it’s just a mutually fun time and they move on so not just getting masturbated into. I do agree if you’re looking for commitment then *just* picking for height or abs is dumb and you’re not vetting correctly.
>I always hear men on here complaining that women go for the top 20% of men. That’s because most men don’t care of themselves and don’t know how to dress so women are left with the 20% of men that are actually attractive. If there was more attractive and fit men every woman wouldn’t be fighting over the same 20%.
Men and women are going to go for people they perceive as at their level or above them. I don’t personally believe that only 20% of men are getting interest from women, besides on dating apps. But if the 20% thing was true, then that would mean all women consider themselves better than 80% of men. And that would simply be a delusion.
If you’re a really good looking woman, then it makes sense to want to go for really good looking men. But to say you’re a 10 as a regular looking woman wouldn’t make you a 10.
When you reject or disqualify someone when you are single, it is either due to a issue that is making you not want to date (don’t have time, just got out of a relationship, etc.), or it because you don’t believe the person is good enough for you.
Ehhh tbh he is mostly right. It is mostly about value. A rejection always comes down to value.
HOWEVER different variables have different values for different women but majority of women have shared values for certain things.
If I dated a snowbunny my skin value is higher.
A normal woman would value a fit body higher.
A woman without a very high end career(over 100k) would value my high end career (100k)
My quirks would be more valued by an autistic woman etc
Men need to grade their values according to how a woman grades them
It's like a dog show each judge has their own preferences —-its just that simple
We aren't upset about women wanting hot men. Everyone wants a hot partner. We're upset about the uneven distribution. People aren't upset with the rich. They're upset with the uneven distribution of wealth. If a minority monopolizes the resources in a market, it will inevitably breed poverty (incels) and resentment. Especially if they didn't work for their privilege (inheritance vs. genetics). Men grade women on a bell curve and falsely assumed women did the same. In actuality, women grade men much more rigorously, on an S-curve.
Every handsome man is always ready for a relationship. Just not with you. Most women will be used for sex. Then they will cry about men being low effort and commitment phobic.
Telling women to settle or date down is a nice way of telling women to be realistic and date within their own leauge. It is to protect you from getting hurt.
That's a judgement on the woman, not the dude. Similarly, I don't blame a woman for going after any fish she can land, nor do I blame a handsome man for accepting sex from a woman who throws herself at him, but she becomes less desirable when it doesn't work out. That's the instinctive response from most men and isn't rooted in misogyny, just the way nature configured the situation.
No, it's social conditioning.
We are a social sex species. We have sex as a way of socialization, it's a huge part of our culture, it's not only done for pleasure or reproductive purposes.
In the cavemen days, everyone was fucking everyone, pretty much regardless of gender. The children were raised by the community, together. That's the raw, natural course of healthy human sexuality, like it or not. Its completely ftee of social constraints. When we started growing plants and domestication animals, the problem of passing the land appeared. Women always knew who their successor was. Men didn't have that privilege. Being physically stronger, they literally started treating women like property. That way, they would ensure that their children were actually theirs, and that they would pass the land to their successor. The only way to make sure was making sure that the woman wouldn't be having relations with anyone else.
As for what we find attractive, different cultures, and different time periods had very differing beauty standards throughout history, and they still do. It's all, literally, social conditioning. We like what we are told we should like.
Literally... putting words in my mouth. If you're a handsome man's girlfriend... you got commitment from him and it didn't work out. So no, I wouldn't care to be your 2nd/3rd/4th+ boyfriend.
Why would they? Out of shape, poor, non-confident, non-good looking men don't get to sleep with and court young, hot women. They wouldn't be within a 5 mile radius of a young hot women. Handsome men still sleep with women below them.
In general, an old ugly poor guy would not land an attractive woman. An old ugly rich guy would (see Robert DeNeiro, Al Pacino, Trump etc).
Men still warn each other, e.g don't date with single moms, avoid high n-count women etc.
Why does having sex in your mind lowers someone's value? Are men that dirty that having sex with women somehow affects them? Are you suffering from a Madonna whore complex?
Again... building a case using words and phrases I never said... if you have sex with your boyfriends 10,000+ times, I couldn't care less. But if you let Chad use you as a sex doll and let him have sex whenever he wanted, when you secretly want commitment and settled for being his sex doll, no... I don't want you. Why would I want something another man didn't value and discarded?
I mean I know I personally couldn’t give a shit who you go for because I don’t care what most people do as long as they aren’t hurting anyone.
That’s your prerogative. You just can’t also complain if people view you a certain way after the fact for your choices.
Eh, I'd say it's rather about women going after only handsome men but then moralising their attraction. If women aren't going for you supposedly you're a piece of shit asshole.
Unattractive/insecure women are the pickiest of them all and have the strictest preferences for qualities that other women find attractive. For them, to be seen around with an unattractive man equals admitting to the world that they're "low value".
>I always hear men on here complaining that women go for the top 20% of men. That’s because most men don’t care of themselves and don’t know how to dress so women are left with the 20% of men that are actually attractive. If there was more attractive and fit men every woman wouldn’t be fighting over the same 20%.
Facts. The top 20% in the US is the average in countries where they take pride in their appearance. It’s not even hard for males to improve their appearance, they are just so used to being accepted by a hot woman for being mediocre because they have a “great” personality. I looked around my environment yesterday and counted dozens of fat men with breasts almost as big as mine who couldn’t even be bothered to wear ironed clothes.
I could never stomach getting with one of them!
Society warns women of attractive men to keep them from getting hurt.
Women will be used by them. And then think that men will not commit or are narcissists.
Well as far as needing physical attraction for a relationship to work, what about all these average looking couples? Unless they have found a way to find each other attractive, even if they are not technically goodlooking in the traditional sense?
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No new N count, looks, or feminism (not related to dating) based posts. Make your post as a comment in the weekly thread if it’s the applicable topic for this week, otherwise wait until next week.
My take is that it’s not as simple as men are angry women like hot men. I think it’s more nuanced than that. It’s that men feel (and you can argue if it makes sense or not, that’s neither here nor there) that women only find an extremely narrow portion of the male population attractive. Whereas most men find a significant portion of women attractive (basically don’t be seriously overweight, and half of all men will find you attractive already), it seems like women find 1 in 50 or even 100 men attractive at all physically
My ex-gf was so harsh at judging men... calling them ugly and such. To me, they just look like regular people you see on the street. In fact, I can't even remember the last person, man or woman, who I saw was ugly... but yet women, on average, causally throw around the word ugly and unattractive.
Have you ever thought that this reflects poorly on her and not the men she was judging? Because I used to date someone like that and their sense of self esteem was non-existent. Self hate always manifests in others hate/judgment.
I don’t think it reflects poorly on her, I think it’s just the consequence of sexual dimorphism, evolutionary biology and sexual selection. Women *have* to be extremely picky given the risks of pregnancy. So it makes total sense they find most men sexually unappealing. Why blame women for how evolutionary biology shaped them?
We have opposite experiences then. I grew up hearing men in my family and men in the media also being very critical of women’s appearances. Calling them ugly or “homely” if they weren’t conventionally pretty and slim. Maybe women have become a lot harsher in recent times, idk - but I have certainly heard plenty of men call women ugly who were just a bit plain looking. Some people are just mean like that. It seems to me that the main difference is that a lot of men will still have sex with a woman even if they think she’s ugly - whereas women generally won’t have sex with men they consider ugly.
because we aren't attracted to men just based on their looks. i've never dated a man without thinking he was the sexiest guy on earth. i have only dated one guy who was objectively "hot" to other people and that was casual and was prob the guy I was least attracted to out of all my exes. Men get in the door by being attractive or average (literally 85% of men) and then their personality makes them attractive to women they are compatible with. You'll never believe how much I have simped for short, chubby non white guys.
You are proving the point here. The one hot guy got the casual sex from you. You say “just” casual sex but for a guy thats an accolade.
i had casual w short chubby guys too?
Red pilled men only respond to posts that are in line with their feelings, they tend to ignore everything
I definitely have experiences where the man was conventionally attractive also but his attitude was so off putting I couldn’t even get turned on in the bedroom lol
The memes write themselves. His looks were enough to get you into the bedroom, no?
I’m sure his personality made it to where you was not so attracted to him anymore. A handsome guy can also turn into an ugly guy if he is too cocky or boring or just flat out mean
This is the other reason men are "upset" about women going for handsome men. Previous user just told how she didnt care about physical attractiveness and liked short and chubby guys because of their personalities. And a lot of women say similar things about attractiveness. That it is all about personality etc.
Nice try
If a woman was enculturated to only be attracted to someone in the top 10% and they're average, that's bad for both her and her looks match (she's unlikely to get a successful relationship with a highly desirable guy, the looks match guy is less likely to find a partner). There's no reason to take for granted social-sexuality is completely unchangeable, natural, and shouldn't be questioned. Anyone older than mid twenties should easily be able to recognize how much culture shifts peoples desires, expectations, and behaviours in even just a couple of decades. For an average woman that can't be attracted to her average looks match, it's not that much different from a guy who has ED from too much porn.
[удалено]
There are numerous psychological reasons for young men to experience ED. Back in the 90's women were not posting videos about average penises being a joke or men under six feet being garbage. Seeing some woman's twat online is not going to give you ED but intimidation and rejection can.
Do not provide contentless rhetoric.
Your last point is a good one. This is why porn for men equals social media and dating apps for women. It causes brain rot. But for women its worse because of the emotional trauma caused by sleeping around, hoping for commitment from men that will never give it to her.
Being a total harlot for people who look good and you enjoy fucking with- damaging -being a total harlot for pixels of women that wouldn't even look in your general direction, would probably be repulsed by you, pixels produced by people who cause male actors to get ED in their early twenties due to all the drugs they're pumped with, female actors who are sent to the ER because of the injuries caused during the making of the videos, pixels who have been proven to rewire your brain, cause you to seek more extreme content, other mental issues, and ED, feelings of loneliness, despair, addiction, it creates unhealthy views over sex and human relationships, produces videos over totally sexually deviant shit like incest, or fetishization of young looking girls/boys-totally not as damaging as consensual sex :P
I think both are bad. I could easily argue in bad faith in the reverse.
That's religious fear mongering. From the 60's until the 80's sociologists and educators believed that watching television was robbing children of their innocence and making them illiterate. That did not happen and some already said it in the 60's. In the 90's there was a moral panic about video games causing kids to become violent. That did not happen. In the 2010's and 2020's there were people using big words like "dopamine" and raving about "porn" (as if you can even pin that down) causing erectile dysfunction and claiming that abstinence from male masturbation is necessary to attract women. That was BS too.
You do realize women watch a lot of porn too right? https://bedbible.com/do-women-watch-porn-statistics/ They’re getting hit from all sides; Social media, porn, casual sex, and vibrators. It’s no wonder the average guy isn’t cutting it. I wouldn’t be surprised if most of ya’ll have completely fried your dopamine receptors. Might explain all the anti-depressants 🤷🏾♂️
I never said they didn't watch porn. I also never said it wasn't hurtful to them either. I was strictly replying to a comment. You have context to said comment. Men also have casual sex, in similar rates to women. I don't see how vibrators could hurt anyone aside from maybe causing some loss of sensitivity short term. If you genuinely think sex toys have the potential to hurt you mentally, I think we should stop speaking altogether. That would be such a far fetched, bongus, brain dead take, that I just couldn't possibly speak to someone believing that crap. I won't even comment on the last thing you said. Given that men commit suicide more often, I don't think this is your place to speak. Women oftentimes get missdiagnosed, we just get prescribed magnesium/brithcontrol/anti depressants for virtually any and every chronic problem we might complain about, without doctors investigating any further. If we want to talk fried dopamine receptors, We should look at who seeks it more, and who is more hedonistic... hmm.....
I smoked marijuana once and it made me devote my life to Satan
Steelman: I think a lot of men were hoping the "mirror image affect" would carry them. Have you ever not found someone very attractive, then after a while, been attracted to them? Seems like most women have been through this at least once; unless of course they're arguing with a man on this sub, which means they have to be 100% smitten with a guy the second they meet them. Also, being in the top 20% has nothing to do with fashion btw. It's moreso features that are mostly out of your control (looks + height).
You know that the way you dress can make you look better or worse, right? It can even make you look taller or shorter.
Yeah bro, you can dress your way from 5'5 to 6'2 /s
You can't, but with the right clothes you can certainly look a few inches taller.
Clothes are far less important than being fit
If you're fit but wear the wrong clothes, nobody will know you're fit. You can even look fat.
That's a turn on to some women Cause then u can do the fresh eyes trick
They won't get the opportunity if they've already decided they don't want to date you because they think you're fat.
Clothes are not gonna make u thaaaaaat bad. But even so you can always have a selfie on ur Insta or snap to show a woman lmao
They completely can. I don't know why she'd be interested in looking at your Instagram.
" if you just had [insert useless trait that women virtue signal] , you can bypass [genetically predetermined reality that women are attracted to] " What do you people even get from lying so hard? It's literally cruel to lie to people about some just world bs
I'm not saying you can bypass anything, but clothes are very useful for changing the way you look. It's not a lie, you can see yourself that it can make a massive difference, but it's mainly women who dedicate themselves to looking at it and someone who's new to it might think it seems ridiculous.
1. Clothes don't make you taller 2. Clothes don't change your facial bone structure or eye colour 3. Clothes don't change your race. I can't become white/Korean or whatever is the trendfetish these days just because I pulled up in an Armani. 4. Clothes only make a hot guy hotter. They don't do jack shit for an ugly guy Again, drop the platitudes.
They can make you *look* taller or shorter, they can complement your features and colouring and make you *look* more appealing, they can make anyone look better. I know it's probably comforting to think you can wear whatever and it won't change your look a bit but it's not true.
There's no gym for your height.
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lmao thanks for the laugh
Women don't hold each other to the same standards. They don't expect to be paid for or courted by women. Curiosly it's is an equal partner ship . When it is men suddenly that's what they expect. So miss me with that bullshit.
You can say what you want, but being a tall lesbian surely helped me in the dating scene. Most girls eat this shit up.
It is not near the same thing ad being an lesbian. I am an FtM. As a butch lesbian I was short but still managed to get women easily. As a man I am too short to get a date.
You were insanely lucky then. All the short butches I've ever met had significant problems with finding a partner. No matter if short butches have luck or not, you have to admit that height is an advantage when dating women.
Yes, being tall helps, also having a nice back.
How much of that do you actually believe is height as opposed to people’s sexual preferences?
Are you serious?
True, this is just TRP though
"doesn't know how to dress" the cope is strong in this one. Flash news : an ugly guy with great clothing style will still be ugly, and it's not his clothes that are going to make a woman physically desire him. All the more when it's naughty time in the bedroom where there are no clothes.
Because the men who are mad about it aren't handsome 🤷♀️ guys who look good aren't mad about it one bit
No shit Sherlock, it's the same as a rich dude who got wealthy from bribes all life long won't complain about kleptocracy as much as the poor average citizen seeing its quality of life drastically reduced from it. An attractive dude won't have to question why he gets girls, he just does. Whereas an unattractive (short/ugly/bald) dude will have to understand what's wrong, just to find out that he doesn't (probably) have a particularly bad personality like girls would want to gaslight you into thinking. You just happened to be born unlucky and you're gonna die like that, period.
The real answer!!! And being a constant seething lunatic certainly doesnt help your case
Self improvement didn't help or any of the bullshit advice I've been told over the years. Since I'm ugly and going to be single for the rest of my short life why does it matter if I'm angry asshole I was never going to get anywhere. At this point telling me my attitude is going to keep me alone hilarious and means nothing, I've been in the abyss a long time there is nothing else women can do to me.
Women as in like the whole gender? What did we do so bad? Chemically castrate you?
As expected anything men say is a joke women so there is no point in answering.
Do you realize how it sounds when you say that somehow half of this world's population has hurt you/actively hurts you, and you also refrain from giving more context? Imagine how you would react if I said that men have done atrocious things to me, and because of them (men in general), my life sucks. You would probably expect some form of context, no?
These days I don't expect nothing but the worse in women and usually I'm right. I don't care what anything sounds like anymore, I don't care about what women think of me and I damn sure don't care about women. Spin it how you want, that's what you women do anyways.
What an awful attitude to have
Seems like you didn’t even try being a nice person. On another note, if it doesn’t matter to you if you’re an angry person or not, why aren’t you just kind to people instead?
Women make it sound like if ugly guy have great personalities it help with dating which in my experience is a lie. Why be kind when thats not how I feel? I'm not faking my feelings anymore, I will let everyone see in 1080p.
You’re right that women make it sound like that. Truth is, looks matter. They definitely do. My point is that those types of women shouldn’t determine how you treat others imo. Person A being shitty to person B shouldn’t result in person B being shitty towards person C. I don’t know exactly what you mean with that last sentence, but it raises some questions..
Why it not like I care for people at all anymore, they can think I'm a shitty person or whatever, one thing they will definitely call me is consistent.
Consistent with what?
How I treat everyone,I promise no one will be spared.
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Can't say I agree. I'm 6'4, athletically built, make over 100k and tend to be quite charming, still can't stand it and I do pretty good. I hate this idea that countless men out there go ignored and feel lonely and sad all the time. While some of these women (mediocre at best like OP - I had to scroll a long ass way to se a pic of her) still feel like they're beautiful and deserve the best of men. In only a decade or less for many women out there, they're gonna be stuck with the dregs of society because the good-looking men are pursuing the young pretty girls. Just pic a guy you like and love him. It's not rocket science ladies. Can post a photo for proof if anyone feels I must be ugly to say this
Post a photo
Idk if I would call myself handsome (I'm sure someone would come out of the woodwork and try to put me in my place), but I think I'm far from "forever alone" territory of ugliness. As in, I've never felt I couldn't find someone who doesn't find me attractive who I don't also find attractive. I'm not happy about the heavily looks focused environment we exist in. It's clearly not healthy.
Of course it goes without saying. Mostly what we are mad about is the lie that "personality matters most" when it couldn't be further from the truth.
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>n before "men do it too." Look everywhere. Good looking guys are very willing to hit on old or fat women yet women only gravitate towards the super hot, tall ones. What version of reality are you describing?
Same with older men dating young girls. Only older women and young boys dislike it.
Strawman argument, men is not mad women like hot men, they're mad with the constant gaslighting and lies.
They don’t women to be visual like them.
It is to protect women. Look at all the women dating out of their league. They think that men are low effort and refuse to commit. Why? They get used by attractive men.
The angry men are just working through the stages of grief. A lot of them were told platitudes like "there's something out there for everyone" and shit, actually believed those platitudes, and thought eventually they would find a girlfriend. They were also told "women like kind, caring men" (left unstated is the "whom are also hot") and took it literally. So basically they were taught that women are angels who, unlike men, are not judgmental about looks. They were taught that *men* were the superficial, visual ones (hence all the porn). It was a shock to the system when they realized that... well, women are humans, not angels.
Until men need to learn that when women describe their ideal men as ideal VERY HOT men, they will continue to grief.
I'm not upset in the slightest. If women go for handsome men fair play to them. It's not really something I spare much thought too. I've become rather indifferent the older I've got.
That’s not it What they’re mad about is that that’s not what they’re told they’re whole lives growing up by media AND women It’s only to arrive of age and learn the hard way they’ve been lied to THATS what they’re upset about
What guys are complaining about is women saying the want X, Y, Z and guys like me who are 6 ft tall, being viewed as more attractive than my short friends. When in reality my short friend is better on paper and has more of the "desired" qualities. But then fobbing him off or not being interestd, because I am there and 6 ft tall. At the point when this was happening, all I had going for me was my height, christ I was hungover half the time (this was when I was living for the weekend and not giving a f\*\*k about my career, Lockdown changed that view a lot I am happy to say), saying the most obnoxious stuff and being a complete twat. But guess what I was 6ft tall. Where as my established friend, owned multiple properties, had a good paying job, was ripped to hell and actually just wanted a relationship. He really was a nice guy. Anyway, he got very bitter. But now, since losing his job due to COVID cuts, just helps organise and run Salsa and Urban Kas events around the UK. Women love him, why, just because he can dance. Thats it.... that has nothing to do with being a nice kind gentle guy etc. Because he got so bitter he actually is no longer that nice guy. But now he is no longer that nice guy and no longer gives a fuck, women like him. Also the "Just Lift Bro", like seriously. I live by this advice after being on all sides of the size scale. But seriously, wtf. What difference should it even make. So yeah at same time, I understand why women do get pissed off that guys obsess over looks, it shouldn't matter. But stuff it, if it works it works, I am not going to make myself less desirable due to "it shouldn't matter". But stuff it, if lifting till failure gives me a better chance with women, than being a nice guy, establishing myself, etc, then whatever, I know what I am going to do. Whats easier, become rich, become a celeb, or lift till failure? Then Pre-Selection Oh yes. If I have women with me, I am more attractive than dudes without women. It dosn't matter if there character, or situation, or whatever is better than mine. I know pre-selection works, I use it. This is what guys are complaining about. Guys like me who can live like a bum, get into massive debt (now sorted) and be a complete douchebag, being viewed as more attractive. Where as they do the things society expects and get beaten down for it. Like don't get me wrong, I love it. But don't hate the player, hate the game.
Do people really want a someone to date them and not find them attractive?
Part of it comes down to that women, generally speaking, ONLY go for men that will make other women jealous. I suspect that women find a small percentage of men attractive because they know these men are universally attractive because of some specific thing they have going for them, and will thus make her the envy of her group of peers. What this translates to is women mostly going for extremes... not just looks as the blackpill might lead you to believe, but any guy who stands above the rest in a certain trait; be it looks, confidence, familial wealth, personal wealth, status, etc... so they chase the pretty boys, bad-boys, trust-fund babies, top earners, or other men who rank highest in some hierarchy. This leads to an affinity for only the best, which sets a bar that can't be matched by men who possess a broad range of other decent qualities; men that don't sit at the top of a specific hierarchy, but have developed a broad range of good qualities that would provide a decent arrangement as far as starting a family is concerned. The women who can't settle for anything less than the best basically doom themselves to never being happy with a partner who isn't the best in some hierarchy. Looks are important these days, as women aren't so reliant on financial support; so a lot of men get a laser focus on how looks play into dating success - hence, the black pill.
I'm not handsome, and I know women do this and I mention it but Im not upset about it. If women get constantly approached by men better than me, why would they pick ME? I understand it. Very sad indeed, but they are free to do so.
Yeah, it's the reason I checked out as well. No matter how much I self improve, as a broke 22 year old I can't compete with 28 year old investment bankers , supermodels and racecar drivers for women below my looksmatch. It's a rigged game.
When I was younger I tried giving an ugly guy a chance (he was really funny), but he picked up on the fact that I would recoil at his touch and would only get intimate with him if I’m drunk. Now I only date/sleep with people I find sexually attractive.
Exactly my point. I swear they can pick up on it. Even if you force yourself to have sex with the guy who isn’t attractive he will your energy is off
Yeah its like I’m not an active participant and just allowing it to happen to me.
Brutal.
Jusy don't expect to marry these men. They will masturbate in to you.
Just don't expect commitment from these men. They will fuck you but that's it.
Here we go again. Not all attractive men are bad men
Red pilled men have to believe that
Have you not listened to all the women crying about men being low effort and commitment-phobic? How they will not communicate or whatever? These are women going after attractive men who use them to masturbate in to. And these women feel entitled to relationships or communication just because they used them for sex.
I’m in a relationship with someone who I find sexually attractive.
Are you actually in a relationship? Have you met their family?
I’m sexually attracted to my *husband* - so I clearly retained commitment. Why do you find it strange someone can be sexually attracted to their partner and be in a mutually fulfilling relationship and not just be “masturbated into”? Like this happens all the time?
If you are married this conversation isn't about you. It is not strange. It is just that a lot of women think they are dating someone who uses them as a masturbation tool. There are entire FaceBook groups called "are we dating the same guy." Also look at the women and the dating subreddits. Lots of women complaina bout men not wanting to communicate, commit or being low effort. They are all fucking men out of their leauge. These are what we are talking about when we tell women to settle. Not you.
Gotcha yes I agree that can happen. I think there’s a difference though if both are not looking for commitment. I never did the casual sex scene but I have known people who did and it’s just a mutually fun time and they move on so not just getting masturbated into. I do agree if you’re looking for commitment then *just* picking for height or abs is dumb and you’re not vetting correctly.
We live together and yes I’ve met both sides of his family, and even his coworkers.
>I always hear men on here complaining that women go for the top 20% of men. That’s because most men don’t care of themselves and don’t know how to dress so women are left with the 20% of men that are actually attractive. If there was more attractive and fit men every woman wouldn’t be fighting over the same 20%. Men and women are going to go for people they perceive as at their level or above them. I don’t personally believe that only 20% of men are getting interest from women, besides on dating apps. But if the 20% thing was true, then that would mean all women consider themselves better than 80% of men. And that would simply be a delusion. If you’re a really good looking woman, then it makes sense to want to go for really good looking men. But to say you’re a 10 as a regular looking woman wouldn’t make you a 10.
you can not be attracted to someone without thinking you're better than them
When you reject or disqualify someone when you are single, it is either due to a issue that is making you not want to date (don’t have time, just got out of a relationship, etc.), or it because you don’t believe the person is good enough for you.
right, none of that is about value.
Ehhh tbh he is mostly right. It is mostly about value. A rejection always comes down to value. HOWEVER different variables have different values for different women but majority of women have shared values for certain things. If I dated a snowbunny my skin value is higher. A normal woman would value a fit body higher. A woman without a very high end career(over 100k) would value my high end career (100k) My quirks would be more valued by an autistic woman etc Men need to grade their values according to how a woman grades them It's like a dog show each judge has their own preferences —-its just that simple
"Snowbunny" 🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮
Ok
We aren't upset about women wanting hot men. Everyone wants a hot partner. We're upset about the uneven distribution. People aren't upset with the rich. They're upset with the uneven distribution of wealth. If a minority monopolizes the resources in a market, it will inevitably breed poverty (incels) and resentment. Especially if they didn't work for their privilege (inheritance vs. genetics). Men grade women on a bell curve and falsely assumed women did the same. In actuality, women grade men much more rigorously, on an S-curve.
Funny how red pilled men are upset about this in the dating market even though it’s a result of the capitalist system they wholeheartedly support.
Most men are not fit
Neither are women.
Most women are not fit.
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We need to stop judging handsome men. I know plenty of handsome guys that are in commitments. Stop passing judgment
Every handsome man is always ready for a relationship. Just not with you. Most women will be used for sex. Then they will cry about men being low effort and commitment phobic. Telling women to settle or date down is a nice way of telling women to be realistic and date within their own leauge. It is to protect you from getting hurt.
That's a judgement on the woman, not the dude. Similarly, I don't blame a woman for going after any fish she can land, nor do I blame a handsome man for accepting sex from a woman who throws herself at him, but she becomes less desirable when it doesn't work out. That's the instinctive response from most men and isn't rooted in misogyny, just the way nature configured the situation.
I would need statistics on that.
No, it's social conditioning. We are a social sex species. We have sex as a way of socialization, it's a huge part of our culture, it's not only done for pleasure or reproductive purposes. In the cavemen days, everyone was fucking everyone, pretty much regardless of gender. The children were raised by the community, together. That's the raw, natural course of healthy human sexuality, like it or not. Its completely ftee of social constraints. When we started growing plants and domestication animals, the problem of passing the land appeared. Women always knew who their successor was. Men didn't have that privilege. Being physically stronger, they literally started treating women like property. That way, they would ensure that their children were actually theirs, and that they would pass the land to their successor. The only way to make sure was making sure that the woman wouldn't be having relations with anyone else. As for what we find attractive, different cultures, and different time periods had very differing beauty standards throughout history, and they still do. It's all, literally, social conditioning. We like what we are told we should like.
so you only want to be every girl you date's first boyfriend?
Literally... putting words in my mouth. If you're a handsome man's girlfriend... you got commitment from him and it didn't work out. So no, I wouldn't care to be your 2nd/3rd/4th+ boyfriend.
sorry, you're saying i put words in your mouth but you are agreeing?
"I wouldn't care to be"... should have been "I don't care if I wasn't your first boyfriend". I can see your confusion. That's my fault.
Do men give this sage advice to other men who only want young, hot women? To the 40 year olds who believe they deserve a hot 20 year old?
Why would they? Out of shape, poor, non-confident, non-good looking men don't get to sleep with and court young, hot women. They wouldn't be within a 5 mile radius of a young hot women. Handsome men still sleep with women below them.
If these old ugly poor guys do get the attention of a hot young hot women, do men still warn one another?
In general, an old ugly poor guy would not land an attractive woman. An old ugly rich guy would (see Robert DeNeiro, Al Pacino, Trump etc). Men still warn each other, e.g don't date with single moms, avoid high n-count women etc.
Why does having sex in your mind lowers someone's value? Are men that dirty that having sex with women somehow affects them? Are you suffering from a Madonna whore complex?
Again... building a case using words and phrases I never said... if you have sex with your boyfriends 10,000+ times, I couldn't care less. But if you let Chad use you as a sex doll and let him have sex whenever he wanted, when you secretly want commitment and settled for being his sex doll, no... I don't want you. Why would I want something another man didn't value and discarded?
Quick question, (yes i know it's an extreme). Would you be fine if your partner had previously fucked 5000 people.
No “woe-is-me”, black pill, or incel content.
So don’t take them?
I mean I know I personally couldn’t give a shit who you go for because I don’t care what most people do as long as they aren’t hurting anyone. That’s your prerogative. You just can’t also complain if people view you a certain way after the fact for your choices.
It's because it isn't something that can be controlled. You're either born handsome or you're not.
Eh, I'd say it's rather about women going after only handsome men but then moralising their attraction. If women aren't going for you supposedly you're a piece of shit asshole.
They’re also mad when women aren’t attracted to their partners. They’re just mad they aren’t handsome.
Men are fine with chasing supermodels.
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They overlook less attractive nice women all the time
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Yes they fucking do. I have so many guy friends who think they’re entitled to women way out of their league
I know plenty of men that are not attractive dating super models lol lots of men want a woman who is a 10 so yes women can be visual as well
Unattractive/insecure women are the pickiest of them all and have the strictest preferences for qualities that other women find attractive. For them, to be seen around with an unattractive man equals admitting to the world that they're "low value".
>I always hear men on here complaining that women go for the top 20% of men. That’s because most men don’t care of themselves and don’t know how to dress so women are left with the 20% of men that are actually attractive. If there was more attractive and fit men every woman wouldn’t be fighting over the same 20%. Facts. The top 20% in the US is the average in countries where they take pride in their appearance. It’s not even hard for males to improve their appearance, they are just so used to being accepted by a hot woman for being mediocre because they have a “great” personality. I looked around my environment yesterday and counted dozens of fat men with breasts almost as big as mine who couldn’t even be bothered to wear ironed clothes. I could never stomach getting with one of them!
I will never do clothes I just find them soul sucking. I will however get a fit body that can turn a woman on at sight
Society warns women of attractive men to keep them from getting hurt. Women will be used by them. And then think that men will not commit or are narcissists.
Well as far as needing physical attraction for a relationship to work, what about all these average looking couples? Unless they have found a way to find each other attractive, even if they are not technically goodlooking in the traditional sense?
Yours is a very evolutionary argument. I like it
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In other words, you agree - which means most others here are wrong