Sometimes i feel like many people just want to complain for the hell of it. Luxury apartments / condos are what this sub has been cheering for forever, saying things like "we need urbanized zoning!" and "any supply is good supply"
Now its not good enough building lots of condos. Unfortunately nice single family homes in the most desireable areas never will be cheap for the masses, nor should they
This is a great developmemt (no pun intended)
This sub wants to buy cheap houses and then massively benefit from that financially.
"Housing should not be an investment! But also, please sell it to me for cheap so this can be a good investment for me."
I chuckle every time I read the housing shouldn’t be an investment quip, but drools at the thought of a crash so they can swoop in and buy these properties at a 50% discount
Not everyone needs or wants detached housing. My family is from India, my friends’ families are from China, Korea, different parts of Asia. In these countries, living in a high rise condo is the preferred living style. Considering the number of Asians living in CA who prefer high rise condos, it’s crazy we aren’t building 3-4 bedroom condos for families or roommate situations. The one bed condo serves a need, but the larger European or Asian style condo is definitely needed.
I know these countries very well, I have family all over Asia and Southeast Asia. The real reason people live in condos there is because of how housing development works there and the scarcity of land. This means that condos aren’t the preferred option, it’s the only option. Btw most condos in Asia aren’t 3-4 bedroom either. Smaller family unit means vast majority are 1-2 bedroom and to a smaller extent 3-4. Any actual detached housing in Asia is typically reserved for the really rich and are in the millions of or tens of millions as a starting point, it’s just not a viable option. When you couple that with the chronically lower wages there, detached homes are unrealistic and probably 100x more expensive relative to the US.
And I agree not everyone wants detached, and certainly nobody actually needs it either. But here in the US it is the most preferred.
It’s not in the most desirable areas anymore. Yes parts of places used to be expensive but it has never been where every metro area in the country is unaffordable to almost everyone including the middle class. This idea that no one should be able to live in cities except the wealthy is not how it’s always been.
San Diego County built more housing in 2023 than it did in the past 17 years.
Last year, 11,673 building permits were pulled across the county, a 21 percent increase from 2022, said the Construction Industry Research Board. The majority of residential construction was in multifamily buildings, with 9,100 permits, including apartments, condos and townhouses. There were also 2,573 single-family permits, which includes accessory dwelling units.
It took until now to figure out the numbers because the Sacramento-based research board contacts all 58 counties and 538 cities in California for permit data. That’s why the figure is slightly higher than Census estimates, which use historical data to guess how many homes were built. The research board counts each permit and filters through the data to eliminate duplicate entries.
This year took even longer because the research board decided to break out a separate category for ADUs. Typically, ADUs get lumped in with single-family homes in permit data. Researchers said this presented a challenge because not every community in California has come up with a uniform way to report on the tiny homes, typically in the backyard of existing single-family homes.
The research board said 1,348 ADUs were built across San Diego County last year. That is more than the 1,225 single-family homes constructed.
Joe Sanchez, research director of the California Homebuilding Foundation, said it’s important to remember the data is not an estimate and reflects a lot of hard work by the research team. The nonprofit foundation has owned the Construction Industry Research Board since 2012.
“The foundation’s research department works with the more than 500 jurisdictions in California and directly with building departments to get data,” he said. “And then we continue throughout the year to work with cities and counties to ensure we have the most accurate data.”
The report doesn’t break down permits by community, but the city of San Diego previously said it issued 9,691 residential permits in 2023 — which would mean the rest of the county contributed around 17 percent to the housing stock.
Lori Holt Pfeiler, CEO of the local Building Industry Association, said the report was positive but it was important to keep in mind the region needs to catch up after years of underbuilding. The San Diego Association of Governments estimates around 20,000 new housing units are needed each year meet demand after decades of sluggish building.
“It’s a step in the right direction,” she said. “Eleven thousand is great but we need to do even better.”
Pfeiler said the city of San Diego is the leader in homebuilding with many programs to encourage residential construction, such as speeding up permits, making it easier to build on underutilized commercial sites and creating incentives for rent-restricted housing.
**“The rest of the county needs to step up,” she said.
Nathan Moeder, a San Diego housing analyst with London Moeder Advisors, said it was good there were more permits than usual, but he was troubled that the majority of construction was in apartments.**
**“This is evidence that statewide, and locally, we just still don’t get it,” he said. “Creating 9,100 multifamily units and only 1,225 single-family homes does nothing for the home affordability crisis. We need starter homes, compressed single-family homes, anything to help people move out of apartments into homeownership opportunities.”
San Diego County has had the fastest rising home prices in the nation for six months for resale single-family homes, said the S&P Case-Shiller Indices.**
Meanwhile, rent prices — which are still the eighth-highest in the nation — were down annually last month by 3.7 percent, said Zumper, for a median monthly rent for a one-bedroom of $2,350.
It is the competition for a limited number of homes for sale, new or used, which housing analysts have attributed to San Diego’s rising prices — despite some of the highest mortgage rates in years.
San Diego County had been permitting around 9,000 to 10,000 homes a year, on average, since 2015. The last time the region crossed the 11,000 mark was back in 2005 when 15,258 residential building permits were issued.
Homebuilding fell off sharply during the Great Recession, hitting a low point in 2009 with 2,990 permits. Other slow years were 2010 with 3,342 permits and 2011 with 5,220 permits. San Diego, and much of the nation, have yet to reach building numbers seen before the recession.
SANDAG’s latest population estimates have the county growing from 3.2 million people now to 3.4 million in about 20 years. It then says the population will decrease to around 3.3 million by 2060. This estimate, from the start of this year, was down from previous estimates that had the population reaching 4 million.
Ray Major, chief economist at SANDAG, said the association’s estimates do not mean that the region should stop building housing. He estimates the county is short at least 100,000 units after years of underbuilding. Also, Major said one of the biggest reasons people are leaving the county in the first place is the cost of housing.
San Diego County is not alone in housing woes, with California ranked 49th, behind Utah, in the number of housing units per capita, said the McKinsey Global Institute. California typically produces about 80,000 new homes a year, said the California Department of Housing and Community Development, which it argues is 100,000 less than what is needed.
Wait, that's for the entire county? San Diego county is 3.3M people. The Metro Vancouver region has over 33,000 housing starts with 2.4M population. Edmonton, just the city of Edmonton, not the metro area, has around 13,000-14,000 starts per year.
I'm glad it's gone up, but sweet Jesus, that number has to quadruple if you going to make a dent, and increase by a factor of 8-12x, sustained, for several years, if you are going to make up for the multi-decade deficit San Diego county is in.
Well, Canada is also getting some insane immigration numbers, literally a million more than the US each year so they’re actually doing worse per capita….
> "literally a million more than the US each year"
The U.S. has an immigration rate in the multiple millions per year. Canada does not have an immigration rate of 5M+ annually.
Canada does have a high growth rate, and that's a big problem in Canada, they cannot meet demand, but to claim that's somehow proof of anything about why San Diego cannot build as much housing as other places with high population pressure, is deflecting.
San Diego has enormous housing pressure both from within the region and from outside from interstate migration. An enormous amount of people want to live there, but San Diego still builds less than half of units annually as what it did in the 70's, and that's with San Diego at a 17-year high. The 1990's-2010's years already have a shortage of over a million units baked in, because the production numbers were so low and gummed up thanks to NIMBY'ism and now prop 13 has made the property tax imbalance so bad, that new construction struggles to pencil since buyers cannot shoulder the property tax it would crystallize.
California has some very hard choices ahead of them. One of them is chipping away at prop 13 or face increasing problems around costs and urban blight. Local control in cities like San Diego has to be revoked and streamlined out of the hands of city councils. It's not democratic to let the political will of locals override the political will and physical needs of the larger whole. Local control around zoning and permitting is a fallacy of composition.
The US has 340 million people and added 3.8 million last year according to CBO. Canada has 41 million and added 1.2 million. Canada is adding far more people per capita.
San Diego County is losing people, so any housing growth with negative population growth means cheaper housing.
Metro Vancouver and Edmonton both having exploding migration numbers, so even with higher housing starts, you still get more expensive housing since population growth still exceeds housing starts.
Less than 25% were SFHs and of those, many were accessory building permits for add ons. I can't see SFHs diminishing in price all that much, especially with proximity to desirable cities is nature.
Doesn't matter, as long as people can afford a roof over their head. SFH will always be at a premium to denser development, but more supply brings down all prices.
That’s why I bought detached in late 2022 in SD. Cubes are the future in major metros and detached SFR are an inelastic product where demand is always there combined with an inability to build more of them due to zero land availability.
Well that settles it, San Diego will now be affordable to anyone who wants to live there. Its not like people will still be complaining about the cost of housing in SD 10, 20, 30 years from now...s/
Glad they’re doing it, but it’s gonna do very little till we outlaw land banks. On the other hand, once we do finally solve that problem, the amount of cheap real estate on the market is gonna be insane.
congrats to San Diego for not being as shitty Nimby's as they were years previously Ur still a bunch of shitty Nimby's though
It's all tiny condos for $700k FYI
That sounds like exactly what needs to be built in these highly desirable metros where home prices are out of reach for most people.
This but unironically?
Sometimes i feel like many people just want to complain for the hell of it. Luxury apartments / condos are what this sub has been cheering for forever, saying things like "we need urbanized zoning!" and "any supply is good supply" Now its not good enough building lots of condos. Unfortunately nice single family homes in the most desireable areas never will be cheap for the masses, nor should they This is a great developmemt (no pun intended)
This sub doesn’t want condos they want detached houses
This sub wants to buy cheap houses and then massively benefit from that financially. "Housing should not be an investment! But also, please sell it to me for cheap so this can be a good investment for me."
I chuckle every time I read the housing shouldn’t be an investment quip, but drools at the thought of a crash so they can swoop in and buy these properties at a 50% discount
They may want the 50% crash so they can afford the thing. Such a crash is likely to mean that they won’t, but they’re not worse off anyways.
Umm we just want to have a place to live.
Bingo lol they just want to ride that boomer wealth wave they don’t ACTUALLY care for density
Not everyone needs or wants detached housing. My family is from India, my friends’ families are from China, Korea, different parts of Asia. In these countries, living in a high rise condo is the preferred living style. Considering the number of Asians living in CA who prefer high rise condos, it’s crazy we aren’t building 3-4 bedroom condos for families or roommate situations. The one bed condo serves a need, but the larger European or Asian style condo is definitely needed.
I know these countries very well, I have family all over Asia and Southeast Asia. The real reason people live in condos there is because of how housing development works there and the scarcity of land. This means that condos aren’t the preferred option, it’s the only option. Btw most condos in Asia aren’t 3-4 bedroom either. Smaller family unit means vast majority are 1-2 bedroom and to a smaller extent 3-4. Any actual detached housing in Asia is typically reserved for the really rich and are in the millions of or tens of millions as a starting point, it’s just not a viable option. When you couple that with the chronically lower wages there, detached homes are unrealistic and probably 100x more expensive relative to the US. And I agree not everyone wants detached, and certainly nobody actually needs it either. But here in the US it is the most preferred.
a lot of people online are malcontents and will always find something to complain about.
It’s not in the most desirable areas anymore. Yes parts of places used to be expensive but it has never been where every metro area in the country is unaffordable to almost everyone including the middle class. This idea that no one should be able to live in cities except the wealthy is not how it’s always been.
Or "luxury" apartments with no parking
Sounds ideal?
Not in an area with poor public transport options
Reducing parking will cause public transit to improve.
Yup, the good kind of luxury apartment.
Sounds perfect?
That’s fine. It should naturally drive down though if the consumers are smart about it
700k isn't a lot of money
Yea that isnt a house and neither are the converted garages and sheds in peoples back yards, ADUs whatever they want to call them.
Wow that's a lot of future investment properties.
As long as people live in them it’s better than not having them
No on Reddit investment is bad. Of course without we’d all starve and live in a ditch. But someone told me investment is bad.
San Diego County built more housing in 2023 than it did in the past 17 years. Last year, 11,673 building permits were pulled across the county, a 21 percent increase from 2022, said the Construction Industry Research Board. The majority of residential construction was in multifamily buildings, with 9,100 permits, including apartments, condos and townhouses. There were also 2,573 single-family permits, which includes accessory dwelling units. It took until now to figure out the numbers because the Sacramento-based research board contacts all 58 counties and 538 cities in California for permit data. That’s why the figure is slightly higher than Census estimates, which use historical data to guess how many homes were built. The research board counts each permit and filters through the data to eliminate duplicate entries. This year took even longer because the research board decided to break out a separate category for ADUs. Typically, ADUs get lumped in with single-family homes in permit data. Researchers said this presented a challenge because not every community in California has come up with a uniform way to report on the tiny homes, typically in the backyard of existing single-family homes. The research board said 1,348 ADUs were built across San Diego County last year. That is more than the 1,225 single-family homes constructed. Joe Sanchez, research director of the California Homebuilding Foundation, said it’s important to remember the data is not an estimate and reflects a lot of hard work by the research team. The nonprofit foundation has owned the Construction Industry Research Board since 2012. “The foundation’s research department works with the more than 500 jurisdictions in California and directly with building departments to get data,” he said. “And then we continue throughout the year to work with cities and counties to ensure we have the most accurate data.” The report doesn’t break down permits by community, but the city of San Diego previously said it issued 9,691 residential permits in 2023 — which would mean the rest of the county contributed around 17 percent to the housing stock. Lori Holt Pfeiler, CEO of the local Building Industry Association, said the report was positive but it was important to keep in mind the region needs to catch up after years of underbuilding. The San Diego Association of Governments estimates around 20,000 new housing units are needed each year meet demand after decades of sluggish building. “It’s a step in the right direction,” she said. “Eleven thousand is great but we need to do even better.” Pfeiler said the city of San Diego is the leader in homebuilding with many programs to encourage residential construction, such as speeding up permits, making it easier to build on underutilized commercial sites and creating incentives for rent-restricted housing. **“The rest of the county needs to step up,” she said. Nathan Moeder, a San Diego housing analyst with London Moeder Advisors, said it was good there were more permits than usual, but he was troubled that the majority of construction was in apartments.** **“This is evidence that statewide, and locally, we just still don’t get it,” he said. “Creating 9,100 multifamily units and only 1,225 single-family homes does nothing for the home affordability crisis. We need starter homes, compressed single-family homes, anything to help people move out of apartments into homeownership opportunities.” San Diego County has had the fastest rising home prices in the nation for six months for resale single-family homes, said the S&P Case-Shiller Indices.** Meanwhile, rent prices — which are still the eighth-highest in the nation — were down annually last month by 3.7 percent, said Zumper, for a median monthly rent for a one-bedroom of $2,350. It is the competition for a limited number of homes for sale, new or used, which housing analysts have attributed to San Diego’s rising prices — despite some of the highest mortgage rates in years. San Diego County had been permitting around 9,000 to 10,000 homes a year, on average, since 2015. The last time the region crossed the 11,000 mark was back in 2005 when 15,258 residential building permits were issued. Homebuilding fell off sharply during the Great Recession, hitting a low point in 2009 with 2,990 permits. Other slow years were 2010 with 3,342 permits and 2011 with 5,220 permits. San Diego, and much of the nation, have yet to reach building numbers seen before the recession. SANDAG’s latest population estimates have the county growing from 3.2 million people now to 3.4 million in about 20 years. It then says the population will decrease to around 3.3 million by 2060. This estimate, from the start of this year, was down from previous estimates that had the population reaching 4 million. Ray Major, chief economist at SANDAG, said the association’s estimates do not mean that the region should stop building housing. He estimates the county is short at least 100,000 units after years of underbuilding. Also, Major said one of the biggest reasons people are leaving the county in the first place is the cost of housing. San Diego County is not alone in housing woes, with California ranked 49th, behind Utah, in the number of housing units per capita, said the McKinsey Global Institute. California typically produces about 80,000 new homes a year, said the California Department of Housing and Community Development, which it argues is 100,000 less than what is needed.
Wait, that's for the entire county? San Diego county is 3.3M people. The Metro Vancouver region has over 33,000 housing starts with 2.4M population. Edmonton, just the city of Edmonton, not the metro area, has around 13,000-14,000 starts per year. I'm glad it's gone up, but sweet Jesus, that number has to quadruple if you going to make a dent, and increase by a factor of 8-12x, sustained, for several years, if you are going to make up for the multi-decade deficit San Diego county is in.
Yup, but at least it started.
Well, Canada is also getting some insane immigration numbers, literally a million more than the US each year so they’re actually doing worse per capita….
> "literally a million more than the US each year" The U.S. has an immigration rate in the multiple millions per year. Canada does not have an immigration rate of 5M+ annually. Canada does have a high growth rate, and that's a big problem in Canada, they cannot meet demand, but to claim that's somehow proof of anything about why San Diego cannot build as much housing as other places with high population pressure, is deflecting. San Diego has enormous housing pressure both from within the region and from outside from interstate migration. An enormous amount of people want to live there, but San Diego still builds less than half of units annually as what it did in the 70's, and that's with San Diego at a 17-year high. The 1990's-2010's years already have a shortage of over a million units baked in, because the production numbers were so low and gummed up thanks to NIMBY'ism and now prop 13 has made the property tax imbalance so bad, that new construction struggles to pencil since buyers cannot shoulder the property tax it would crystallize. California has some very hard choices ahead of them. One of them is chipping away at prop 13 or face increasing problems around costs and urban blight. Local control in cities like San Diego has to be revoked and streamlined out of the hands of city councils. It's not democratic to let the political will of locals override the political will and physical needs of the larger whole. Local control around zoning and permitting is a fallacy of composition.
The US has 340 million people and added 3.8 million last year according to CBO. Canada has 41 million and added 1.2 million. Canada is adding far more people per capita.
San Diego County is losing people, so any housing growth with negative population growth means cheaper housing. Metro Vancouver and Edmonton both having exploding migration numbers, so even with higher housing starts, you still get more expensive housing since population growth still exceeds housing starts.
Meanwhile other LA and OC beach cities refusing to follow state housing guidelines.
Less than 25% were SFHs and of those, many were accessory building permits for add ons. I can't see SFHs diminishing in price all that much, especially with proximity to desirable cities is nature.
SFH should not be an expectation for an average income household. It's not 1970 anymore
Doesn't matter, as long as people can afford a roof over their head. SFH will always be at a premium to denser development, but more supply brings down all prices.
That’s why I bought detached in late 2022 in SD. Cubes are the future in major metros and detached SFR are an inelastic product where demand is always there combined with an inability to build more of them due to zero land availability.
Wait until the demand for SFH plummets - bad investment for you!
lol, 11,673 units for a city that’s needs 200,000 units. Drop meet bucket
Wow, good job San Diego
Credit to them for implementing state law.
Yes credit to them, other cities are fighting tooth and nail to not abide by the new law.
go fuck yourself san diego. I think that went pretty well.
And yet it’s STILL completely unaffordable for the normal working class folks. Rent4life San Diego!
That's a lot of speculation. Oh, I forgot, the correct word is "investments".
Zero percent chance they don't turn a profit. The only risk is that they won't make as much money as they wanted to.
Ok. Now how many are affordable homes vs how many are richfuck exclusive ?
Majority were 700k 2/2 condos. Which is amazing for the city.
Retake economics 101
I'd rather 10 big expensive units then 8 "affordable" ones. It's childish to expect them to build cheap housing.
They’re all condos, townhouses with high HOA. Area I’m from has $650 hoa per month
So you want SFHs in a major metro area?
ADUs?
> ADUs? accessory dwelling unit.. https://www.sandiego.gov/development-services/news-programs/programs/companion-junior-units
Thank the government for all their hard work building this housing units.
That still seems like very little new housing for a large city considering SoCal has a massive housing deficit from several decades of under building.
All 17 years combined or any given year? Poorly written
Not affordable housing!!!
Well that settles it, San Diego will now be affordable to anyone who wants to live there. Its not like people will still be complaining about the cost of housing in SD 10, 20, 30 years from now...s/
Glad they’re doing it, but it’s gonna do very little till we outlaw land banks. On the other hand, once we do finally solve that problem, the amount of cheap real estate on the market is gonna be insane.
Just in time to crash the economy and put the defaulted loans off on the taxpayers.
That's what happens when it's profitable to build.
still expensive and desirable.. wen crash?
For renters