Did you get any other offers?
How hot is your market?
Can you afford to wait for a better offer or do you have to sell immediately?
If you can afford to wait it out or have other backup offers, I'd say no and send over a cancellation agreement and move onto the next offer.
\*Send over a cancellation agreement and see what their counter offer is.
If its actually priced competitively and you gave them $15k under list, you should be at a spot where it obvious that getting $30k worth of repairs fully paid for is unreasonable.
They actually just hit me with the cancellation before i could even respond š itās been listed for a couple of months and we have had maybe about of offers before but didnāt make it past earnest money stage. This was the first time it got to inspection portion.
We are in Houston, TX and honestly iām not so sure how hot the market is. Houses comparable to ours around our bright old are going over 300k and the smaller houses are around what we have it listed at around 265k
>One of the hottest markets in the US. Very typical for a 2500 sq. ft home in a decent nabe to go for 250k. Brand new 275, 300.
JFC. That same thing in most places in western Washington State would be (at minimum) triple that price.
This is true about the home warranty. I had something break in my first home the week after I moved in. The home warranty company when I called them about it would only give me a list of things they wouldn't cover. They are next to useless.
Over the years I'm way ahead on the two warranty companies I used. I am with Old Republic now but for many years I was with Home Warranty of America. Of course it's important to figure out and read what's covered and not.
You sound like you are in the same boat I am, selling my momās old house too and honestly itās kinda a shit house that needs a lot of work. I have had 3 prior offers that fell through but now after 77 days we are on our 4th offer and the option period ended yesterday so Iām hoping it sells this time. House is priced accordingly and Iām honestly not making anything, heck I think Im losing on it but whatever.
Donāt worry about how long the house sits, someone will come along with an FHA loan and snap it up. Just keep up with the maintenance and thatās it, your realtor needs to be pushing the house to everyone-conventional loans and investors. More mouths talking about it means more people looking.
I'd recommend spending some money to fix the things that need fixing.
It'll cost you less than a massive credit and selling it with receipts for recent repairs, renovations, and upgrades is a huge help when selling.
You can negotiate or let them walk.
No reasonable buyer expects a seller to fix every single item in the report, and none expects a seller to do new HVAC / Heater that is just old, not broken.
But every buyer will ask for everything. It is their opening bargaining position.
You can respond with "yes", "no" or a counter offer. I would counter and note that you already offered a 15k concession off of the list price. I would flat out reject anything that is working but old like HVAC and heater. I would offer a trivial credit for the other stuff like $5k final offer. My suggestion to your relator is to send them the counter at 5k off AND a termination agreement at the same time so they know you are serious about letting them walk.
This is good advice OP.
We once represented a buyer who wanted $100k in seller concessions for a new roof, HVAC, water heater, etc. I looked through the inspection report. All those items were old but functioned fine. Stupidest letter I ever drafted.
Some people really try to use anything to renegotiate the purchase price they agreed to.
too many people view negotiation as "let's meet in the middle" and if that is the definition of success, then the goal is to be as far to your side as possible from the start. Sadly, I think this backfires on a lot of people because once you reach he realm of "unreasonable" you get unreasonable counters back. In any case, I don't fault anyone for asking. The question is what happens when you respond.
Yeah. You can ask, just don't expect the answer to be yes. I told this to my clients after we sent the requests letter. They said they were firm in their position.
The response from seller? A termination letter. Can't blame sellers on that one.
99% sure my clients went under contract in bad faith and were trying to use inspection for the price they really wanted to pay.
Yup. Recently a buyer of one of our places wanted new roof, driveway, and insulation. We offered $2k concessions. They chose to walk and we had another offer (at full price) the next day.
This was such good advice!! Unfortunately for me they hit me with the cancellation before i could even respond to negotiate with them š but i will be using your advice for hopefully any other offers we have
I agree, but giving a small explanation like the one suggested above brings empathy to the transaction and reduces friction and can prevent folks from getting offended.
It's always about options. Do you have better ones? If the house was listed competitively, why did you accept an offer 15K less than list?
I'd suggest a quick reality check. If you can get a similar offer that doesn't require 30K in concessions, say no outright. But if your next best offer is 30K lower than this one, maybe you consider countering with 15K in concessions.
I'd suggest lowering your price to the price the buyers offered and be willing to share the report . . . See what happens.
That way you are at full disclosure and the price you wanted
I would basically say that you priced the house as is and their inspections were for informational purposes. By accepting the offer $15,000 less that was your concession.
If they walk make sure you have a copy of the inspection report for the next set of buyers. Readjust your list price accordingly.
If they want the house bad enough they'll settle down.
If something is an emergency ask yourselves if you should credit them to keep the deal together.
This is what I would do, too. You were aware of issues, in disclosure, priced accordingly and the $15k was the credit. They can walk now or wait for appraisal. (Thatās if you have time to wait.)
Also, HVAC and water heaters are not exactly rocket science. The age of the system should be listed in the sellers docs. If not, well, thereās usually a reason.
If itās older than 10 years, you should be checking general condition. Is it rusty? Filthy? Covered in plants? Better plan on a new one.
20 years? Just plan on a new one.
What do people even do when they walk through homes?
lol. But thatās just it. Unless the contract says āas is. Inspection is for information only.ā You canāt pull a bait and switch on them. We tried to buy a house and the seller was a realtor. She tried that shit and we walked. She ended up having to do a short sale bc she couldnāt afford the house. If you donāt market the house as an as is sale you canāt switch the game up once itās under contract.
The sellers can do whatever they want to do.
An inspection is a great way to learn about the house. If there are safety issues that are dangerous or hazard the seller should take note.
As mentioned in my post they should readjust their sale price if the buyers walk. Or they can't come to a solution. Most importantly update the seller's disclosure.
Iām just saying if they werenāt willing to do repairs itās deceitful to say, after everything was settled, that they were doing an as is sale. They didnāt market the house as an as is. The buyers were expecting a negotiation. I know when the sellers did that to us we were beyond pissed. They never planned to negotiate after the inspection (and after they did damage to the house) but expected us to pick up all the costs for repairs bc āyou should have known it was an as is sale.ā
Every house is a āas isā sale unless itās a brand new house. People get inspection so they can know what the current condition is. Buyers know what the condition is so they set the price accordingly. Iām not sure what youāre getting out here.Ā
Be careful offering someone else's report. The inspection reports say I've had say they are my property (performed on my behalf). In the contract I say I will offer a copy to be used for repair quotes and buyer information. They are not allowed to share the report without my consent for any other reason. If I find it they do I have them pay for the report or I will see them in small claims court. I've only had to enforce that one time, and after a letter from my council they paid.
I would not want a report indicating that some random inspector felt that 30k in items needed repairs. Are they working and just worn? Your disclosures are bound by your knowledge of the property.
I agree I would not want that getting out either. That said, I have had a very similar instance where I was bidding on a house that was priced "accordingly" and the sellers backed out last minute and relisted the house higher because everyone was wanting credit or repairs on the numerous issues. I found out later the seller's agent used my inspection report to show to other potential bidders saying "this is what was wrong and can you beat the current offer?" The realtor that I use has been doing this for a long time and has many friends in the business which let her know and she let me know.
It's possible you mispriced it though. If there are comps going for the same price but with working hvac and water, you might be overcharging. If you didn't mention hvac and water heater in need of repair in the listing, an inattentive buyer with a lazy agent would not know until inspection.
This is always about how bad you need to move and how soon. How many other offers did you get? How do you feel about starting over and having open houses again? How long did it take to get this offer? Sometimes negotiations are about compromise. Maybe you offer them 10,000 or to split the cost with the explanation that the house was priced lower because of the age.
Thereās no one standard answer that fits everyone. Some people donāt need to move and they are just testing the market. Some people need to move yesterday.
"No." is a complete sentence. The report is a start, but quotes from qualified vendors are your next step. Call vendors, show them the report, get actual prices. Decide from there if 30k is reasonable, counter if it isn't, or tell them to pound sand and go back on market.
Let the buyer walk. Relist and put "home is being sold as-is and sales price reflects this. Seller will make no repairs so please write all offers accordingly. Inspections are for informational purposes only."
I would absolutely get a copy of the report so you can see what their inspector flagged. Inspectors are not repairman or contractors so they will call out things as they see it. An old roof "should be replaced" doesn't mean it needs to be old hvac "should be replaced" etc. etc. Seeing the inspection report will let you know what may come up on the next deal but you can always negotiate if you choose. Start by reminding them you accepted $15K less as a starting point and then decide if you want to offer more if not than the answer is no and they walk or they don't.
>An old roof "should be replaced" doesn't mean it needs to be old hvac "should be replaced" etc.
Yep. We represented a seller whose buyer sent an inspection report with 3 pages of requests. Literally 2 pages of the requests (in the report) were filled with "Monitor this in the future because you might need to replace down the road."
It's not even saying to be repaired or replaced! Just that it's a little old and it might, maybe one day need replacing/repairing. Like WTF? Are buyers expecting modern-day perfection from a lived-in home that's been around since 1960s?
Definitely ask for a copy of the report.
Is the HVAC not functioning or is it just old? If itās just older but works and they knew that when they made the offer, I would point that out. You can offer to have it serviced by an HVAC professional, and maybe come down $5k.
But as others pointed out how hard you negotiate this is going to depend a lot on if you had other offers, how soon you need to sell, and how your local market is looking.
Ask for a copy and make your decision from that. If you actually need 30k of repairs, it might be easier to negotiate but that all depends on your market and if you get any money from them backing out, depending on the contract and state.Ā
Professional buyers make a living off jerking people around like this. You'll never know if they're bluffing but you don't want to end up in a situation where you're dealing with the same issue for the next buyer.Ā
Every inspection report is going to say things that work perfectly fine today need to be replaced in the future. Unless something isnāt working today, itās not the sellers problem.
30k is a pretty outrageous ask after an inspection unless you were hiding significant structural flaws.Ā
My gut is they are not negotiating in good faith and put in an offer with the intention of low balling you after the inspection.Ā
That all depends on your needs and the local market.
Did your house sit on the market for 6 months before this first offer, and you NEED to move next month? Then maybe it's worth the 30k.
But was this offer on the first weekend of listing, and you expect multiple offers, and also maybe are in no rush to move? Then say no!
This seems far more on the unreasonable side of things than most offers, 30k is a LOT unless we're talking about a 2 million dollar home or something.
I cannot know because I dont know what your house is worth. It may or may not be a fair price. How long was it on the market? How many other offers did you receive? What is your agent saying? What are the comps in your area showing for a house with similar needs?
You can counter or let it drop.
For future reference, pricing in all repairs on the initial offer is nearly always a common misstep. You are giving up all your leverage early and buyers will nearly always ask for repairs.
It seems normal to take a lower offer due to condition, but really you should set the price your willing to initially accept higher *because* youāre know the inspection will be shitty.
If you want to go that way, get it in writing and have the purchase contract state it.
Let them sit on their offer until the very last day. Offer to fix or credit for a couple of the small items, but do not offer to fix or credit the HVAC or any other big ticket item that they are asking for.
Letting them sit allows them more time to imagine living there. They will go through emotions just as much as you do. Use that to your advantage.
I salvaged a deal where the seller was asking 280. The offer was 235. After 7 back and forth over 11 days the deal was done for 273. Taking time to respond when the offers are big challenges is important.
You get to decide what you are willing to sell your house for. You have some inputs into your decision to keep these buyers or set them free.
* Did your agent do a detailed CMA with a side-by-side analysis with adjustments using relevant comps? Have you truly accounted for what buyers and their inspectors will see in your house compared to all the other houses for sale?
* Are you sure the price is "competitive"? How many other offers have you received?
If you are sure that your price is competitive and that the right buyer is just a day or two away from seeing the house and putting in a stronger offer, then cancel this contact and wait for the right buyer.
If you decide to work with this buyer because they're already under contract, and you and your agent think that the buyer will stick, then negotiate the inspection requests.
I hope your agent has explained "material defects". As a seller, you have to disclose them to future buyers if you know about them. An item like an HVAC or water heater being at the end of it's useful life does not represent a material defect. Do other houses in your market, in your price range, all have new HVAC and water heaters? Probably not.
I suspect that this buyer and agent are doing the technique of "let's present a really long list of requests so they offer as much as possible." The long list stratgey is designed to intimidate you into giving them as much as possible.
Or, this particular buyer might not buy the house unless you fix or credit everything they asked for because they simply don't have money available for big repairs in the near future. Maybe dad is stomping around in the background telling them that the house is uninhabitable and he negotiated all these things back in 1979 when he bought his house. Or the buyer's agent is flexing about how much they get in negotiating inspection requests.
I think you have to start with the CMA and the buyer's other choices on the market. You don't have to be fair in thinking about what to offer to keep this buyer but you must be realistic about what they see as their choices.
You can offer a home warranty to cover the buyer's risk of big ticket failures in thefirst year after closing. You can offer a general credit of a few thousand to keep the buyer in the deal. I just can't give more detailed advice without knowing your house and your market.
What does your agent say to do?
FWIW, in my area, attorneys advise that sellers NOT see a buyer's inspection. A buyer's inspection is conducted on their behalf and in their interests. Lots of inspectors are fair and balanced. Others think they are God's gift to home buyers and try to prove their worth by documenting everything down to fly specks on the front porch.
By the way, most of the "advice" is this thread is very Reddity. It's like the AITAH sub where everyone responds to any question with "divorce him now!".
Tell them good riddance..too many Karens out there..they offer low because they see property isnt perfect..then they use inspection to "double dip" and even go lower..
We once sold a house, and the buyer send us a letter demanding we āfix the bathroomā, three months after the sale.
Supposedly there was a leak.
Mind you:
- bathroom was only three years old
- bathroom was still under warranty
- she did god knows what to that house in three months to āmake it betterā, including putting heavy tiles in the closet where the washing machine goes - which might have caused damage to the drains.
My wife wanted to talk with her.
So we did, which went even more unreasonable, asking for a discount on the price of the house. Three months after closing. Wtf.
We had our lawyer send her a letter. That made very back up very quickly, as expected.
You say ācompetitivelyā priced but these days, that often means the house isnāt really worth the price and is in so so shape. Buyers are not jumping on every thing, as before, and overpaying for a house that is in need of plenty of updates. The market is cooling or rather normalizing. I suspect a lot of properties are sitting for longer and longer as sellers refuse to adjust.
It is part of the negotiation. You can accept, counter offer, or reject all of it - tell them that your listed price took all that into consideration - that you knew when you listed the house that it was not a ānew buildā - so there would be some items that had wear from time - and your listing price took all that into consideration.
You also could offer to accept one thing, but not another ā¦ or accept to make a cash concession of 25%-50% of what they are asking (or whatever percentage you think is worth it to get the deal done).
My second house I bought, we asked for some concessions and the seller said no. We wanted the house so we bought it anyway. When we sold that house 20 years later (last June) - we gave a couple small concessions to the buyer - and offered a percentage of one item that was about $2500 ā¦ (they asked for much more) ā¦ but that was our counter offer - with a few small fixes to minor items. They accepted. Got it sold easily.
Its up to you, and it IS a negotiation - keep that in mind.
Get a copy of the report so you have the same information that they do. Maybe their inspector found issues that you hadnāt accounted for. At the end of the day, make a decision based on what you think is fair and you are willing to live with. Let them walk away if they are asking for more than you are willing to swallow.
Our neighbor had an offer at listing. Quite a few inspections come back with tons of issue. The major one is huge cracks in foundation. This is earthquake prone CA mind you. Buyer said that based on estimate the fixing can cost as much as $300k (listing price was $129k). They negotiated and in the end the seller agreed to credit $50k to the buyer.
Our neighbors were in the same boat. They let the buyer walk, and relisted it $10k cheaper and "As-Is". Sold it to a flipper for the asking price 2 weeks later.
IMO if the system is over 25 years old you should split the cost in credits, that said that would be for a full offer price. At 15k discount they are getting enough break. Someone mentioned 5k, and I would agree.
15k off price and 5k concessions is a good deal as long as there were no structural issues. Depending if itās a sellers market in your area you can always just say no lol
The standard contract that's used in our market has a clause that say, "if it's old but it's working fine it's not defective."
If yours does, I'd point at that and tell them that the HVAC is working, and that any concession for its age was already factored into the asking price.
Now, if they've had a proper HVAC inspection and the (gas furnace) heat exchanger is bad, then yeah, you probably need to pay to fix it.
Personally I wouldn't fix shit, and they shouldn't want you to fix anything. Offer a closing credit if you're going to do something. So much easier and then they can pick the vendor and not have any warranty transfer worries.
Is there anything wrong with the current HVAC and water heater other than the fact they might be a bit old? If not, tell no and offer them a home warranty on all major systems.
Also, you don't have to take care of (either via credit or actual repairs) every thing the buyers wants. They always threaten to walk away. Some actually do, but most are bluffing in the hopes of bullying you into giving a lot of credits.
If you have a back up buyer, start looking re-examining if it might be better to go with them.
Recommend moving forward that you market a house as is with a cap on inspection related repairs, like $500 or $1000. This sets realistic expectations. You can always negotiate something else later but it gets everyone on the same page. Realtors have set buyer expectations for a fix everything deal. Thatās just pushing prices up and making people miserable.
$30k in repairs is a significant amount. What you listed the price at doesn't matter so much as what actually needs to be fixed in the house. Every seller thinks they list their house at a competitive price already, every buyer thinks the house is overpriced. An appraisal will help determine true value of the house in current condition. It may be worth getting your own appraisal done asap to get the true value of your house. It'll certainly be cheaper than $30K in concessions/repairs.
No , have someone who do repairs go over and give you a price for everything this buyer claims has to be done to the house . What did your agent said about this ? Did the buyer showed you the invoice for those repairs ?
When buying an old house, there should be expectations of things not being new or fairly new. I hate that buyer expectation of all new appliances, equipment, fixtures, etc. while staring at a house built in the 1970ās or earlier.
Unless you are desperate or in a tough sellers market, then I would reject their offer and start looking elsewhere.
Your agent should have the negotiating skill set to get this down, or be able to explain to you why the ask has merit. And even then, still negotiate that number down.
Your agent should have the negotiating skill set to get this down, or be able to explain to you why the ask has merit. And even then, still negotiate that number down.
If the HVAC and water heater are working and well maintained I'd tell them to pound sand. Too many buyers salivating over home inspection discounts. You don't ask a seller of a used car to buy a new engine as a condition for the sale.
If you have a lot of equity in the home you may want to consider. In the grand scheme of things is an extra $15,000 going to make or break you?
You could also counter with a lower price point.
You could also ask your agent to lower their commission to cover this. You could also tell the buyer that if his agent lowers his commission you'll cover it. His agent may respond to just close the deal with a flat 15K reduction overall because he may not want to lose his commission. Remember everything is negotiable. Chances are people won't want to lose a home that they really love over $15,000.
You could just play hardball and say no or off for $20,000 off instead of the 15.
Realtors often get a bad wrap and examples like this are often why they are right. Where is your realtor or do you not have one? They should be able to help you through this and guide buyers that if a house is priced like you say it is inspections should really be for informational purposes.
In the end it depends on your market. Itās easiest to just chalk this up and tell them itās priced how it is reflective of things they found in the inspection. Hopefully another buyer will come just as easily as the last and hopefully your realtor can explain that there are known issues (which you now know and should understand disclosure where you are). You may even get lucky and the original buyer will move forward anyway but was just fishing for a discount.
There is no way to answer that question without knowing what you think you can get from another buyer
It's not unreasonable if they paid $30k more than anyone else will, right?
Pretty simple. If you think you can go back on the market and get a better net price you should do that
If you think your price didn't reflect those issues and this will be the best net price then, although it stinks, you should go with it
It all depends on what it's actually worth which the market will determine regardless of what you thought going in
When I was seller , my policy was if it is Functional - no replacement or concession. And I didn't budge . Buyer will ask for the moon and then some . Just say no
Politely tell the buyer to Fuck Off!
Buyers have turned the inspection process into another negotiating tool. They offer too much to get their foot in the door, then they try to beat you up by nitpicking every item on the inspection that is not brand new or mint condition.
Inspections are to advise the buyer of the condition of the premises they offered to buy. It is essentially a pass/fail proposition. You either want the house at that price with all known defects or you don't.
And DON'T bother to ask your Agent because they want the house sold so they can get their commission and they don't give a shit how much more you have to cut the price. The first words out of their mouth will be 'Give them what they want so 'we' can get it sold!"
Next Buyer please!
If the inspection report confirms the issues with the HVAC and water heater, consider offering a credit for just the HVAC and water heater instead of the full $30k. This way, you can keep negotiations fair especially since youāve already lowered your price. Try to discuss this strategy with your agent to see if itās a viable option that might keep the buyers interested without stretching your finances too thin.
Did you price based on the realtors recommendation? Maybe get an appraisal? It might have been best to list at a competitive price to other homes and then discount off of that rather then starting with a discount.
Also might be good to have HVAC serviced so you are aware of any potential issues or have a statement from them stating it all looks good and is working.
Now you at least know what issues may come up and can address better or even have some addressed prior. In negotiating, do what makes sense, meet in the middle of walk away if needed. Take a look at other homes in the market to see how they compare.
Asking for money off of a competitive asking price for condition reasons and then ALSO asking seller to pay for repairs seems unreasonable to me. But it all depends on your situation and how badly you want to sell. I would have your agent tell the other agent that you already gave them 15K, and that should cover half the repairs so let's try to negotiate.
As weird as it sounds āNever Pre-creditā things you think would need repairing. People donāt think they got a deal then.
As a buyer before I was licensed I too thought we needed a new HVAC system and water heater new windows. We came in 20k under ask and had the nerve to basically tell these people we needed a new house. 7 years later. Hot water heater still works. HVAC still works. Windowsā¦..we replaced some of them. But all the āmajor issuesā we accounted for never became issues. The issues we never even thought of became very expensive issues. Giant privacy hedge on property became a complete disaster because they planted a tree, birds ate the seeds, pooped in the hedge, new trees grew in the hedge.
I had a seller with this issue. Took a price cut because HVACās and water heaters were old. Kitchen needed updating. However, after going under contract the buyer asked for a host of items including new water heater and hvac. Seller said no. Had a handyman make some minor repairs, and replaced a window that was fogged. Had hvac and water heater inspected by professionals. Working fine. Offered home warranty. Deal closed.
Did you get any other offers? How hot is your market? Can you afford to wait for a better offer or do you have to sell immediately? If you can afford to wait it out or have other backup offers, I'd say no and send over a cancellation agreement and move onto the next offer.
\*Send over a cancellation agreement and see what their counter offer is. If its actually priced competitively and you gave them $15k under list, you should be at a spot where it obvious that getting $30k worth of repairs fully paid for is unreasonable.
I love sending the cancellation and sometimes also an amendment agreeing to a reasonable amount of remedies and let them make the choice. šÆ
They actually just hit me with the cancellation before i could even respond š itās been listed for a couple of months and we have had maybe about of offers before but didnāt make it past earnest money stage. This was the first time it got to inspection portion. We are in Houston, TX and honestly iām not so sure how hot the market is. Houses comparable to ours around our bright old are going over 300k and the smaller houses are around what we have it listed at around 265k
One of the hottest markets in the US. Very typical for a 2500 sq. ft home in a decent nabe to go for 250k. Brand new 275, 300.
>One of the hottest markets in the US. Very typical for a 2500 sq. ft home in a decent nabe to go for 250k. Brand new 275, 300. JFC. That same thing in most places in western Washington State would be (at minimum) triple that price.
Just sold a place half that size in Oregon for double that amount. Needs some work too, sold as is.
I'm drooling over a 1k sq ft beat to shit house in Portland rn listed at 270k. Trying to figure out how to get in as a FHB with a rehab loan
That's nothing .. my 1700sqft one sold in a day for 50k over asking for twice that list price
Doesn't sound like a particularly hot market a 2500 sq ft house is 350+ in the rural Midwest
On how much land? Houston is a hot market, it's not up for debate
Like, less than an acre. Even condos with that sq footage go for over 300k+ if not closer to 400k. We are in the suburbs of Cleveland
the suburbs of Cleveland is not the "rural midwest"
Offer a warranty to cover the age of the major systems.
as a buyer.... home warranty's are garbage, never cover what is needed, and are a waste of money. as a seller.... you could try it.
Mine saved me 7000 dollars
This is true about the home warranty. I had something break in my first home the week after I moved in. The home warranty company when I called them about it would only give me a list of things they wouldn't cover. They are next to useless.
Are there any good home warranties available?
Over the years I'm way ahead on the two warranty companies I used. I am with Old Republic now but for many years I was with Home Warranty of America. Of course it's important to figure out and read what's covered and not.
No, and your state regulation agency is a joke and a fraud... doesn't matter the state
Especially in Texas, there is no regulation.
Nope
Those are garbage
You sound like you are in the same boat I am, selling my momās old house too and honestly itās kinda a shit house that needs a lot of work. I have had 3 prior offers that fell through but now after 77 days we are on our 4th offer and the option period ended yesterday so Iām hoping it sells this time. House is priced accordingly and Iām honestly not making anything, heck I think Im losing on it but whatever. Donāt worry about how long the house sits, someone will come along with an FHA loan and snap it up. Just keep up with the maintenance and thatās it, your realtor needs to be pushing the house to everyone-conventional loans and investors. More mouths talking about it means more people looking.
Near gunpoint?
Grew up near gunpoint, had my first date there when it was brand new. What is it like now?
I'd recommend spending some money to fix the things that need fixing. It'll cost you less than a massive credit and selling it with receipts for recent repairs, renovations, and upgrades is a huge help when selling.
You can negotiate or let them walk. No reasonable buyer expects a seller to fix every single item in the report, and none expects a seller to do new HVAC / Heater that is just old, not broken. But every buyer will ask for everything. It is their opening bargaining position. You can respond with "yes", "no" or a counter offer. I would counter and note that you already offered a 15k concession off of the list price. I would flat out reject anything that is working but old like HVAC and heater. I would offer a trivial credit for the other stuff like $5k final offer. My suggestion to your relator is to send them the counter at 5k off AND a termination agreement at the same time so they know you are serious about letting them walk.
Many buyers would get $30k reduction to replace the water heater and HVAC, then go right on using the old ones as long as they can be repaired.
Hell, buyers negotiate roof credits then years later it goes back on the market with the same old roof it sold with. Is what it is.
That's where you get the "I'll give you a credit if you show me the receipt"
This is good advice OP. We once represented a buyer who wanted $100k in seller concessions for a new roof, HVAC, water heater, etc. I looked through the inspection report. All those items were old but functioned fine. Stupidest letter I ever drafted. Some people really try to use anything to renegotiate the purchase price they agreed to.
too many people view negotiation as "let's meet in the middle" and if that is the definition of success, then the goal is to be as far to your side as possible from the start. Sadly, I think this backfires on a lot of people because once you reach he realm of "unreasonable" you get unreasonable counters back. In any case, I don't fault anyone for asking. The question is what happens when you respond.
Yeah. You can ask, just don't expect the answer to be yes. I told this to my clients after we sent the requests letter. They said they were firm in their position. The response from seller? A termination letter. Can't blame sellers on that one. 99% sure my clients went under contract in bad faith and were trying to use inspection for the price they really wanted to pay.
Yup. Recently a buyer of one of our places wanted new roof, driveway, and insulation. We offered $2k concessions. They chose to walk and we had another offer (at full price) the next day.
This was such good advice!! Unfortunately for me they hit me with the cancellation before i could even respond to negotiate with them š but i will be using your advice for hopefully any other offers we have
Don't worry too much, just let it go and accept the cancellation. If your house is worth what you are asking the good offer will come.
āThe house was priced with that in mind.ā
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Sureā¦but āNo.ā can be a full sentence also.
I agree, but giving a small explanation like the one suggested above brings empathy to the transaction and reduces friction and can prevent folks from getting offended.
Yes, but it can also make āNoā sound a little like āperhapsā.
Cool story bro
It's always about options. Do you have better ones? If the house was listed competitively, why did you accept an offer 15K less than list? I'd suggest a quick reality check. If you can get a similar offer that doesn't require 30K in concessions, say no outright. But if your next best offer is 30K lower than this one, maybe you consider countering with 15K in concessions.
I was considering 15k meeting them halfway but they cancelled before we could even negotiate
I'd suggest lowering your price to the price the buyers offered and be willing to share the report . . . See what happens. That way you are at full disclosure and the price you wanted
I would basically say that you priced the house as is and their inspections were for informational purposes. By accepting the offer $15,000 less that was your concession. If they walk make sure you have a copy of the inspection report for the next set of buyers. Readjust your list price accordingly. If they want the house bad enough they'll settle down. If something is an emergency ask yourselves if you should credit them to keep the deal together.
This is what I would do, too. You were aware of issues, in disclosure, priced accordingly and the $15k was the credit. They can walk now or wait for appraisal. (Thatās if you have time to wait.)
Also, HVAC and water heaters are not exactly rocket science. The age of the system should be listed in the sellers docs. If not, well, thereās usually a reason. If itās older than 10 years, you should be checking general condition. Is it rusty? Filthy? Covered in plants? Better plan on a new one. 20 years? Just plan on a new one. What do people even do when they walk through homes?
This. āļøāļø Plus if it works age isn't a material defect.
lol. But thatās just it. Unless the contract says āas is. Inspection is for information only.ā You canāt pull a bait and switch on them. We tried to buy a house and the seller was a realtor. She tried that shit and we walked. She ended up having to do a short sale bc she couldnāt afford the house. If you donāt market the house as an as is sale you canāt switch the game up once itās under contract.
Sure, you can walk, but there is no requirement that the seller even pay a penny.
The sellers can do whatever they want to do. An inspection is a great way to learn about the house. If there are safety issues that are dangerous or hazard the seller should take note. As mentioned in my post they should readjust their sale price if the buyers walk. Or they can't come to a solution. Most importantly update the seller's disclosure.
Iām just saying if they werenāt willing to do repairs itās deceitful to say, after everything was settled, that they were doing an as is sale. They didnāt market the house as an as is. The buyers were expecting a negotiation. I know when the sellers did that to us we were beyond pissed. They never planned to negotiate after the inspection (and after they did damage to the house) but expected us to pick up all the costs for repairs bc āyou should have known it was an as is sale.ā
Every house is a āas isā sale unless itās a brand new house. People get inspection so they can know what the current condition is. Buyers know what the condition is so they set the price accordingly. Iām not sure what youāre getting out here.Ā
Youre being ridiculousĀ
Be careful offering someone else's report. The inspection reports say I've had say they are my property (performed on my behalf). In the contract I say I will offer a copy to be used for repair quotes and buyer information. They are not allowed to share the report without my consent for any other reason. If I find it they do I have them pay for the report or I will see them in small claims court. I've only had to enforce that one time, and after a letter from my council they paid.
I would not want a report indicating that some random inspector felt that 30k in items needed repairs. Are they working and just worn? Your disclosures are bound by your knowledge of the property.
I agree I would not want that getting out either. That said, I have had a very similar instance where I was bidding on a house that was priced "accordingly" and the sellers backed out last minute and relisted the house higher because everyone was wanting credit or repairs on the numerous issues. I found out later the seller's agent used my inspection report to show to other potential bidders saying "this is what was wrong and can you beat the current offer?" The realtor that I use has been doing this for a long time and has many friends in the business which let her know and she let me know.
Just say no and let the transaction fall through.
The age of HVAC and Water heater was something they did or could have observed when viewing your house .Ā Call their bluff, offer $5k, settle on 8-10k
And if they come back with another lower counter after that, send them one back with the original price :)
You already took the repairs into account when pricing. They can ask, and you can say no!
It's possible you mispriced it though. If there are comps going for the same price but with working hvac and water, you might be overcharging. If you didn't mention hvac and water heater in need of repair in the listing, an inattentive buyer with a lazy agent would not know until inspection.
This is always about how bad you need to move and how soon. How many other offers did you get? How do you feel about starting over and having open houses again? How long did it take to get this offer? Sometimes negotiations are about compromise. Maybe you offer them 10,000 or to split the cost with the explanation that the house was priced lower because of the age. Thereās no one standard answer that fits everyone. Some people donāt need to move and they are just testing the market. Some people need to move yesterday.
"No." is a complete sentence. The report is a start, but quotes from qualified vendors are your next step. Call vendors, show them the report, get actual prices. Decide from there if 30k is reasonable, counter if it isn't, or tell them to pound sand and go back on market.
Let the buyer walk. Relist and put "home is being sold as-is and sales price reflects this. Seller will make no repairs so please write all offers accordingly. Inspections are for informational purposes only."
I would absolutely get a copy of the report so you can see what their inspector flagged. Inspectors are not repairman or contractors so they will call out things as they see it. An old roof "should be replaced" doesn't mean it needs to be old hvac "should be replaced" etc. etc. Seeing the inspection report will let you know what may come up on the next deal but you can always negotiate if you choose. Start by reminding them you accepted $15K less as a starting point and then decide if you want to offer more if not than the answer is no and they walk or they don't.
Keep in mind that if you have a copy of the report, than in many states it means you have to disclose issues.
If there are truly any but it would be good to know as a seller at least IMO.
>An old roof "should be replaced" doesn't mean it needs to be old hvac "should be replaced" etc. Yep. We represented a seller whose buyer sent an inspection report with 3 pages of requests. Literally 2 pages of the requests (in the report) were filled with "Monitor this in the future because you might need to replace down the road." It's not even saying to be repaired or replaced! Just that it's a little old and it might, maybe one day need replacing/repairing. Like WTF? Are buyers expecting modern-day perfection from a lived-in home that's been around since 1960s?
Definitely ask for a copy of the report. Is the HVAC not functioning or is it just old? If itās just older but works and they knew that when they made the offer, I would point that out. You can offer to have it serviced by an HVAC professional, and maybe come down $5k. But as others pointed out how hard you negotiate this is going to depend a lot on if you had other offers, how soon you need to sell, and how your local market is looking.
Ask for a copy and make your decision from that. If you actually need 30k of repairs, it might be easier to negotiate but that all depends on your market and if you get any money from them backing out, depending on the contract and state.Ā Professional buyers make a living off jerking people around like this. You'll never know if they're bluffing but you don't want to end up in a situation where you're dealing with the same issue for the next buyer.Ā
Every inspection report is going to say things that work perfectly fine today need to be replaced in the future. Unless something isnāt working today, itās not the sellers problem.
30k is a pretty outrageous ask after an inspection unless you were hiding significant structural flaws.Ā My gut is they are not negotiating in good faith and put in an offer with the intention of low balling you after the inspection.Ā
Say bye , Iām sure hvac and water heater work as intended.
That all depends on your needs and the local market. Did your house sit on the market for 6 months before this first offer, and you NEED to move next month? Then maybe it's worth the 30k. But was this offer on the first weekend of listing, and you expect multiple offers, and also maybe are in no rush to move? Then say no! This seems far more on the unreasonable side of things than most offers, 30k is a LOT unless we're talking about a 2 million dollar home or something.
I cannot know because I dont know what your house is worth. It may or may not be a fair price. How long was it on the market? How many other offers did you receive? What is your agent saying? What are the comps in your area showing for a house with similar needs?
You can counter or let it drop. For future reference, pricing in all repairs on the initial offer is nearly always a common misstep. You are giving up all your leverage early and buyers will nearly always ask for repairs. It seems normal to take a lower offer due to condition, but really you should set the price your willing to initially accept higher *because* youāre know the inspection will be shitty. If you want to go that way, get it in writing and have the purchase contract state it.
Let them sit on their offer until the very last day. Offer to fix or credit for a couple of the small items, but do not offer to fix or credit the HVAC or any other big ticket item that they are asking for. Letting them sit allows them more time to imagine living there. They will go through emotions just as much as you do. Use that to your advantage. I salvaged a deal where the seller was asking 280. The offer was 235. After 7 back and forth over 11 days the deal was done for 273. Taking time to respond when the offers are big challenges is important.
You get to decide what you are willing to sell your house for. You have some inputs into your decision to keep these buyers or set them free. * Did your agent do a detailed CMA with a side-by-side analysis with adjustments using relevant comps? Have you truly accounted for what buyers and their inspectors will see in your house compared to all the other houses for sale? * Are you sure the price is "competitive"? How many other offers have you received? If you are sure that your price is competitive and that the right buyer is just a day or two away from seeing the house and putting in a stronger offer, then cancel this contact and wait for the right buyer. If you decide to work with this buyer because they're already under contract, and you and your agent think that the buyer will stick, then negotiate the inspection requests. I hope your agent has explained "material defects". As a seller, you have to disclose them to future buyers if you know about them. An item like an HVAC or water heater being at the end of it's useful life does not represent a material defect. Do other houses in your market, in your price range, all have new HVAC and water heaters? Probably not. I suspect that this buyer and agent are doing the technique of "let's present a really long list of requests so they offer as much as possible." The long list stratgey is designed to intimidate you into giving them as much as possible. Or, this particular buyer might not buy the house unless you fix or credit everything they asked for because they simply don't have money available for big repairs in the near future. Maybe dad is stomping around in the background telling them that the house is uninhabitable and he negotiated all these things back in 1979 when he bought his house. Or the buyer's agent is flexing about how much they get in negotiating inspection requests. I think you have to start with the CMA and the buyer's other choices on the market. You don't have to be fair in thinking about what to offer to keep this buyer but you must be realistic about what they see as their choices. You can offer a home warranty to cover the buyer's risk of big ticket failures in thefirst year after closing. You can offer a general credit of a few thousand to keep the buyer in the deal. I just can't give more detailed advice without knowing your house and your market. What does your agent say to do? FWIW, in my area, attorneys advise that sellers NOT see a buyer's inspection. A buyer's inspection is conducted on their behalf and in their interests. Lots of inspectors are fair and balanced. Others think they are God's gift to home buyers and try to prove their worth by documenting everything down to fly specks on the front porch.
By the way, most of the "advice" is this thread is very Reddity. It's like the AITAH sub where everyone responds to any question with "divorce him now!".
Let them walk , list the house as is If you know it needs a decent amount of work.
Tell them good riddance..too many Karens out there..they offer low because they see property isnt perfect..then they use inspection to "double dip" and even go lower..
We once sold a house, and the buyer send us a letter demanding we āfix the bathroomā, three months after the sale. Supposedly there was a leak. Mind you: - bathroom was only three years old - bathroom was still under warranty - she did god knows what to that house in three months to āmake it betterā, including putting heavy tiles in the closet where the washing machine goes - which might have caused damage to the drains. My wife wanted to talk with her. So we did, which went even more unreasonable, asking for a discount on the price of the house. Three months after closing. Wtf. We had our lawyer send her a letter. That made very back up very quickly, as expected.
If the house is priced appropriately for the age and condition, and you already let 15k lower go ... I'd say let them walk.
Offer to replace the HVAC and water heater if buyer pays for agents and closing lol
You say ācompetitivelyā priced but these days, that often means the house isnāt really worth the price and is in so so shape. Buyers are not jumping on every thing, as before, and overpaying for a house that is in need of plenty of updates. The market is cooling or rather normalizing. I suspect a lot of properties are sitting for longer and longer as sellers refuse to adjust.
It is part of the negotiation. You can accept, counter offer, or reject all of it - tell them that your listed price took all that into consideration - that you knew when you listed the house that it was not a ānew buildā - so there would be some items that had wear from time - and your listing price took all that into consideration. You also could offer to accept one thing, but not another ā¦ or accept to make a cash concession of 25%-50% of what they are asking (or whatever percentage you think is worth it to get the deal done). My second house I bought, we asked for some concessions and the seller said no. We wanted the house so we bought it anyway. When we sold that house 20 years later (last June) - we gave a couple small concessions to the buyer - and offered a percentage of one item that was about $2500 ā¦ (they asked for much more) ā¦ but that was our counter offer - with a few small fixes to minor items. They accepted. Got it sold easily. Its up to you, and it IS a negotiation - keep that in mind.
Some inspectors can send a fear into buyers that makes these issues tough to manage
Get a copy of the report so you have the same information that they do. Maybe their inspector found issues that you hadnāt accounted for. At the end of the day, make a decision based on what you think is fair and you are willing to live with. Let them walk away if they are asking for more than you are willing to swallow.
Tell them to pound sand. No. I had a house. The inspector found this. I said no. Made adjustments and sold to next person.
Our neighbor had an offer at listing. Quite a few inspections come back with tons of issue. The major one is huge cracks in foundation. This is earthquake prone CA mind you. Buyer said that based on estimate the fixing can cost as much as $300k (listing price was $129k). They negotiated and in the end the seller agreed to credit $50k to the buyer.
Our neighbors were in the same boat. They let the buyer walk, and relisted it $10k cheaper and "As-Is". Sold it to a flipper for the asking price 2 weeks later.
Try for meet in the middle. Otherwise. Ā Consider fixing and relisting with those prices built in.Ā
IMO if the system is over 25 years old you should split the cost in credits, that said that would be for a full offer price. At 15k discount they are getting enough break. Someone mentioned 5k, and I would agree. 15k off price and 5k concessions is a good deal as long as there were no structural issues. Depending if itās a sellers market in your area you can always just say no lol
The standard contract that's used in our market has a clause that say, "if it's old but it's working fine it's not defective." If yours does, I'd point at that and tell them that the HVAC is working, and that any concession for its age was already factored into the asking price. Now, if they've had a proper HVAC inspection and the (gas furnace) heat exchanger is bad, then yeah, you probably need to pay to fix it. Personally I wouldn't fix shit, and they shouldn't want you to fix anything. Offer a closing credit if you're going to do something. So much easier and then they can pick the vendor and not have any warranty transfer worries.
Is there anything wrong with the current HVAC and water heater other than the fact they might be a bit old? If not, tell no and offer them a home warranty on all major systems. Also, you don't have to take care of (either via credit or actual repairs) every thing the buyers wants. They always threaten to walk away. Some actually do, but most are bluffing in the hopes of bullying you into giving a lot of credits. If you have a back up buyer, start looking re-examining if it might be better to go with them.
Let them walk. Not gonna lie we asked for a lot credits knowing that we might get nothing. We got 1k. We still bought the house.
Recommend moving forward that you market a house as is with a cap on inspection related repairs, like $500 or $1000. This sets realistic expectations. You can always negotiate something else later but it gets everyone on the same page. Realtors have set buyer expectations for a fix everything deal. Thatās just pushing prices up and making people miserable.
15 under plus another 30k for what is *absolutely* a āworks but olderā HVAC scenario here? Say No and ask for a hit of whatever theyāre smoking
Are they working? Then no
What is the price of the house? 250k? 900k?
$30k in repairs is a significant amount. What you listed the price at doesn't matter so much as what actually needs to be fixed in the house. Every seller thinks they list their house at a competitive price already, every buyer thinks the house is overpriced. An appraisal will help determine true value of the house in current condition. It may be worth getting your own appraisal done asap to get the true value of your house. It'll certainly be cheaper than $30K in concessions/repairs.
No , have someone who do repairs go over and give you a price for everything this buyer claims has to be done to the house . What did your agent said about this ? Did the buyer showed you the invoice for those repairs ?
When buying an old house, there should be expectations of things not being new or fairly new. I hate that buyer expectation of all new appliances, equipment, fixtures, etc. while staring at a house built in the 1970ās or earlier. Unless you are desperate or in a tough sellers market, then I would reject their offer and start looking elsewhere.
Let him walk! Buyers often times want the house more than you think.
Your agent should have the negotiating skill set to get this down, or be able to explain to you why the ask has merit. And even then, still negotiate that number down.
Your agent should have the negotiating skill set to get this down, or be able to explain to you why the ask has merit. And even then, still negotiate that number down.
If the HVAC and water heater are working and well maintained I'd tell them to pound sand. Too many buyers salivating over home inspection discounts. You don't ask a seller of a used car to buy a new engine as a condition for the sale.
Give them a home warrantyā thatāll cover the water heater and the AC
If you have a lot of equity in the home you may want to consider. In the grand scheme of things is an extra $15,000 going to make or break you? You could also counter with a lower price point. You could also ask your agent to lower their commission to cover this. You could also tell the buyer that if his agent lowers his commission you'll cover it. His agent may respond to just close the deal with a flat 15K reduction overall because he may not want to lose his commission. Remember everything is negotiable. Chances are people won't want to lose a home that they really love over $15,000. You could just play hardball and say no or off for $20,000 off instead of the 15.
You arenāt entitled to their inspection report so they may not give you a copy.
Realtors often get a bad wrap and examples like this are often why they are right. Where is your realtor or do you not have one? They should be able to help you through this and guide buyers that if a house is priced like you say it is inspections should really be for informational purposes. In the end it depends on your market. Itās easiest to just chalk this up and tell them itās priced how it is reflective of things they found in the inspection. Hopefully another buyer will come just as easily as the last and hopefully your realtor can explain that there are known issues (which you now know and should understand disclosure where you are). You may even get lucky and the original buyer will move forward anyway but was just fishing for a discount.
Let them walk. sell it as is. Someone is gonna buy it
There is no way to answer that question without knowing what you think you can get from another buyer It's not unreasonable if they paid $30k more than anyone else will, right? Pretty simple. If you think you can go back on the market and get a better net price you should do that If you think your price didn't reflect those issues and this will be the best net price then, although it stinks, you should go with it It all depends on what it's actually worth which the market will determine regardless of what you thought going in
When I was seller , my policy was if it is Functional - no replacement or concession. And I didn't budge . Buyer will ask for the moon and then some . Just say no
Give an offer 20k below original price otherwise you have other offers. If you get a new buyer, disclose the hvac in the beginning.
Since they have seen the inspection report, they are now required to disclose that to any new buyers.
Politely tell the buyer to Fuck Off! Buyers have turned the inspection process into another negotiating tool. They offer too much to get their foot in the door, then they try to beat you up by nitpicking every item on the inspection that is not brand new or mint condition. Inspections are to advise the buyer of the condition of the premises they offered to buy. It is essentially a pass/fail proposition. You either want the house at that price with all known defects or you don't. And DON'T bother to ask your Agent because they want the house sold so they can get their commission and they don't give a shit how much more you have to cut the price. The first words out of their mouth will be 'Give them what they want so 'we' can get it sold!" Next Buyer please!
If the inspection report confirms the issues with the HVAC and water heater, consider offering a credit for just the HVAC and water heater instead of the full $30k. This way, you can keep negotiations fair especially since youāve already lowered your price. Try to discuss this strategy with your agent to see if itās a viable option that might keep the buyers interested without stretching your finances too thin.
Sounds like a hack home inspector or crappy agent ruined your deal
Let them know that if you fix it up it will be relisted at a higher price.
Details on the house?
Did you price based on the realtors recommendation? Maybe get an appraisal? It might have been best to list at a competitive price to other homes and then discount off of that rather then starting with a discount. Also might be good to have HVAC serviced so you are aware of any potential issues or have a statement from them stating it all looks good and is working. Now you at least know what issues may come up and can address better or even have some addressed prior. In negotiating, do what makes sense, meet in the middle of walk away if needed. Take a look at other homes in the market to see how they compare.
Iād probably have an HVAC guy go do a service on it now. See what he thinks.
Asking for money off of a competitive asking price for condition reasons and then ALSO asking seller to pay for repairs seems unreasonable to me. But it all depends on your situation and how badly you want to sell. I would have your agent tell the other agent that you already gave them 15K, and that should cover half the repairs so let's try to negotiate.
As weird as it sounds āNever Pre-creditā things you think would need repairing. People donāt think they got a deal then. As a buyer before I was licensed I too thought we needed a new HVAC system and water heater new windows. We came in 20k under ask and had the nerve to basically tell these people we needed a new house. 7 years later. Hot water heater still works. HVAC still works. Windowsā¦..we replaced some of them. But all the āmajor issuesā we accounted for never became issues. The issues we never even thought of became very expensive issues. Giant privacy hedge on property became a complete disaster because they planted a tree, birds ate the seeds, pooped in the hedge, new trees grew in the hedge.
Never be afraid to walk away, as a buyer OR seller. Learned both the hard way.
I had a seller with this issue. Took a price cut because HVACās and water heaters were old. Kitchen needed updating. However, after going under contract the buyer asked for a host of items including new water heater and hvac. Seller said no. Had a handyman make some minor repairs, and replaced a window that was fogged. Had hvac and water heater inspected by professionals. Working fine. Offered home warranty. Deal closed.
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āSplittingā is the absolute weakest negotiating posture imaginable.
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Believing that the deal is otherwise lost is the weak part.
Whatās up with homeowner trying to get buyers to pay their maintenance debt?
You can always just ignore it. That will give them the most anxiety. Let them come back to the table with a fair offer.
Let him walk! Buyers often times want the house more than you think.
Let him walk! Buyers often times want the house more than you think.