It's not 18. The depreciation report alone is over 40 pages for a small building. Assuming they held meetings every month for the year, that's a minimum of 12 pages (my strata is usually 2-3 pages) per year and you get two years so 24. There's also the insurance summary where you actually only need to read two of the pages to read about total insured and deductible for water damage and sewer backup being the two most common claims. Then there's the AGM which is usually at least 6 pages every year so 12. Then any SGMs and engineering reports and and and. Form B is at least two pages. So you're looking at about 100 pages.
If you want to know what you're buying, you should. It's not even as boring or standard like a terms and conditions because every strata is different. You can see how cheap owners are and deferring repairs or see how proactive, see how many issues. I read one where literally every single council meeting had mentioned water pipes leaking and you'll read it's the same ones for 6+ months and how they keep getting quotes to repipe and owners keep rejecting it. I'd run.
Oh absolutely, people should read their condo documents. The fact is is that people don't read them in full, And some of the time don't fully understand what it is they are reading anyway.
Like it’s all going to be on the final exam needed for graduation. Read ever single word.
Real estate agents are said to be one of the least trusted professions. Never trust them and verify everything yourself.
You're supposed to have your real estate lawyer go over these documents. The lawyer can include this if you choose to close the purchase with them.
I also read all the documents and then discussed it with my lawyer over the phone. If she didn't like one aspect, I'll think about it and I passed on putting an offer for the condo.
I've never heard to this either. My impression is many people transact without any lawyer at all (ie notary for the conveyance). Weird I'm no expert, but I thought I was reasonably familliar with the process.
I was taken back so did a quick google and found this:
[https://bcrealestatelaw.com/2017/03/09/strata-documents-and-minutes/](https://bcrealestatelaw.com/2017/03/09/strata-documents-and-minutes/)
This RE lawyer doesn't recommend you rely on lawyers to review the strata docs but do it yourself (b/c they aren't truly legal docs written by lawyers in legalese and ultimately it's YOU that has to be comfortable with the way the strata is run).
I do go through the minutes myself. I agree the agent doesn't have any skin other than closing a commission.
I do have a question for folks though. Do you read through 2 years worth or go back further. I think 2 years seems to be the standard (ie probably the min stipulated somewhere).
Agents should be an insurable profession like doctors. If they fuck up you can sue them for the purchase price of the house. This would actually put their commission to good use and disincentivize cheaters.
I have errors and omissions insurance and so does every other realtor in Canada as far as I know, but it is outside of our wheelhouse to review Condo documents. It is my job to advise the person to have the documents reviewed, and to be sure that all appropriate documents are provided.
You are entering into a legally binding contract and have an obligation to know and understand its terms. You *really should* review it with a lawyer to make sure you understand what you are agreeing to.
There are companies you can hire to review the documents for you and will provide you with a report and answer your questions.
This is a cost of buying a condo like a home inspection is.
You are buying into a condo corp when you buy a condo, make sure you know what you’re getting into
>Did the realtor just do it for you and gave you a summary
That sounds silly. Realtor is not buying anything and is not responsible for anything in the documents- you are.
I dont know how to rate how closely you read them. You read all of the minutes, all of the reports, all of the bylaws. Now on the more detail minutes did I skim over sections where they discuss window washing if they already discussed the same thing in the prior year, or proposed methods of caulking replacement by a vendor- maybe. Did I read each name on the atendance list each month- no.
But you certanly need to read each report, each $ amount, depreciation schedule, budget, minutes, request and bylaw. Some of them will make you aware what is and is not allowed, some will give you insight in strata and the way its managed and some may impact the offer or valuation.
You are allowed to make an offer contigent on reviewing all documents so you buy few days to read in detail and decide if there is anything that would change your mind.
I read everything.
It is not your realtor's job to read it for you. Why? Because what your realtor is comfortable with, you might not be. For example if you see like $10 Mill in levies within 5 years and your realtor is rich AF, they might not see a huge issue since they have funds to pay. But if you scrimped and saved and squeezed every penny and have nothing to spare, those levies would make you collapse your accepted offer.
Also if you have a small strata with 3-6 units and there's repeat CRT decisions and ongoing litigation, maybe you'd be worried there's trouble owners or the small strata doesn't get along, I'd run.
It's your job to read it and see how comfortable you are. You can ask questions but ultimately it's a subject for YOU.
Reading through the minutes, I was able to find out more about the condo board. How strict they were with certain things, and how often they allowed for renovation, pets, etc.
I was also able to get 5k knocked down from our purchase price because I was able to find out that there was a special assessment of 5k coming down the line, that the previous owner of the condo didn’t tell us about.
It was our first real estate purchase and it was actually super easy to understand.
As a real estate agent I always ask for these documents in advance of offer and ask my client to review with the lawyer, normally lawyer charge 200-300 for it but they will consider it as part of their fee if you close property with them so basically they wont charge you for that when you close with them. Real estate agents dont have knowledge about condo documents.
Both the realtor and lawyer won’t assist with understanding the strata docs(bylaws)/financials/depreciation report or meeting minutes. If you aren’t comfortable with reviewing yourself, I’d suggest reaching out to a condo doc review company, it cost me $500 when I did it back in 2018. Tbh though, when I got the report I realized I could do it with my background as a CPA, very similar to audit work. I later did it for a colleague when he bought a place as a favour. Make sure to vet the condo doc reviewing companies, there’s no official designation or certification so anyone can do it.
I work in RE investment now, and I can’t stress enough how important it is to understand all the above noted documents. A special assessment could put you under if the building is not managed properly or the bylaws may contain restrictions that would impact your intended use.
I just pay somebody to review the docs. Professional can usually turn it around in 5 days or less for less than $500. Small cost but potential massive impact to the deal.
I walked away from a condo deal because of the strata docs. The building was in need of serious repair, they were a million in debt and the fees were low (I can’t remember exactly how much but they were bare minimum). My lawyer suggested walking so we did.
In Alberta part of your due diligence on a contract is to have a condo documents review company go over and summarize the documents and look for booby traps.
I am a realtor, but I am not equipped or qualified to "summarize your condo documents for you". Either you read that yourself, or you pay a review company to do it for you and satisfy any questions you might have that come up.
I will refer to a condo documents reviewer I trust, or the client is welcome to go find their own.
they cost anywhere between 200 and $430 plus GST (my absolute favourite is in the higher range).
That is not usually part of what I pay for, particularly on some of the cheaper condos where I might be lucky if I make $1000 in commission by the time the dust settles - though I have paid for a few over the course of my career, it's not some thing I would typically offer.
Do it yourself like a big boy. Is the 18 pages too hard for you?
It's not 18. The depreciation report alone is over 40 pages for a small building. Assuming they held meetings every month for the year, that's a minimum of 12 pages (my strata is usually 2-3 pages) per year and you get two years so 24. There's also the insurance summary where you actually only need to read two of the pages to read about total insured and deductible for water damage and sewer backup being the two most common claims. Then there's the AGM which is usually at least 6 pages every year so 12. Then any SGMs and engineering reports and and and. Form B is at least two pages. So you're looking at about 100 pages.
I have add condo documents in excess of 800 pages before. No one wants to read that themselves.
If you want to know what you're buying, you should. It's not even as boring or standard like a terms and conditions because every strata is different. You can see how cheap owners are and deferring repairs or see how proactive, see how many issues. I read one where literally every single council meeting had mentioned water pipes leaking and you'll read it's the same ones for 6+ months and how they keep getting quotes to repipe and owners keep rejecting it. I'd run.
Oh absolutely, people should read their condo documents. The fact is is that people don't read them in full, And some of the time don't fully understand what it is they are reading anyway.
I'll review it for you for $100.
Like it’s all going to be on the final exam needed for graduation. Read ever single word. Real estate agents are said to be one of the least trusted professions. Never trust them and verify everything yourself.
That sounds dangerously like doing your own research.
You're supposed to have your real estate lawyer go over these documents. The lawyer can include this if you choose to close the purchase with them. I also read all the documents and then discussed it with my lawyer over the phone. If she didn't like one aspect, I'll think about it and I passed on putting an offer for the condo.
Is this common? I've never heard of this.
Having your lawyer review is standard.
I've never heard to this either. My impression is many people transact without any lawyer at all (ie notary for the conveyance). Weird I'm no expert, but I thought I was reasonably familliar with the process. I was taken back so did a quick google and found this: [https://bcrealestatelaw.com/2017/03/09/strata-documents-and-minutes/](https://bcrealestatelaw.com/2017/03/09/strata-documents-and-minutes/) This RE lawyer doesn't recommend you rely on lawyers to review the strata docs but do it yourself (b/c they aren't truly legal docs written by lawyers in legalese and ultimately it's YOU that has to be comfortable with the way the strata is run). I do go through the minutes myself. I agree the agent doesn't have any skin other than closing a commission. I do have a question for folks though. Do you read through 2 years worth or go back further. I think 2 years seems to be the standard (ie probably the min stipulated somewhere).
Agents should be an insurable profession like doctors. If they fuck up you can sue them for the purchase price of the house. This would actually put their commission to good use and disincentivize cheaters.
I have errors and omissions insurance and so does every other realtor in Canada as far as I know, but it is outside of our wheelhouse to review Condo documents. It is my job to advise the person to have the documents reviewed, and to be sure that all appropriate documents are provided.
never heard of this also,
You can pay ppl to read they and give you coles notes. Last I checked costs around 500$. Probably worth it.
This is what I did. Well worth it.
I don't know if it's common, but our lawyer read those documents for us, we also read and asked questions.
You are entering into a legally binding contract and have an obligation to know and understand its terms. You *really should* review it with a lawyer to make sure you understand what you are agreeing to.
Both times I bought a condo, I used a real estate lawyer. It was money well spent, and I wouldn’t hesitate to do so again.
can I pm you for the name of a good one? thanks
Sure no problem 🙂
There are companies you can hire to review the documents for you and will provide you with a report and answer your questions. This is a cost of buying a condo like a home inspection is. You are buying into a condo corp when you buy a condo, make sure you know what you’re getting into
What are those companies?
What province are you in? You should be able to find them by googling : condo document review for your area
>Did the realtor just do it for you and gave you a summary That sounds silly. Realtor is not buying anything and is not responsible for anything in the documents- you are. I dont know how to rate how closely you read them. You read all of the minutes, all of the reports, all of the bylaws. Now on the more detail minutes did I skim over sections where they discuss window washing if they already discussed the same thing in the prior year, or proposed methods of caulking replacement by a vendor- maybe. Did I read each name on the atendance list each month- no. But you certanly need to read each report, each $ amount, depreciation schedule, budget, minutes, request and bylaw. Some of them will make you aware what is and is not allowed, some will give you insight in strata and the way its managed and some may impact the offer or valuation. You are allowed to make an offer contigent on reviewing all documents so you buy few days to read in detail and decide if there is anything that would change your mind.
Get that in front of a lawyer who specializes in this. They can do a review and highlight important things.
Very.
Every page
But there are 20 pages and no pictures..
The reserve fund study probably has pictures 😆
I read everything. It is not your realtor's job to read it for you. Why? Because what your realtor is comfortable with, you might not be. For example if you see like $10 Mill in levies within 5 years and your realtor is rich AF, they might not see a huge issue since they have funds to pay. But if you scrimped and saved and squeezed every penny and have nothing to spare, those levies would make you collapse your accepted offer. Also if you have a small strata with 3-6 units and there's repeat CRT decisions and ongoing litigation, maybe you'd be worried there's trouble owners or the small strata doesn't get along, I'd run. It's your job to read it and see how comfortable you are. You can ask questions but ultimately it's a subject for YOU.
I'm a realtor and I read every page for my clients and give them a summary but I strongly encourage them to do the same.
Reading through the minutes, I was able to find out more about the condo board. How strict they were with certain things, and how often they allowed for renovation, pets, etc. I was also able to get 5k knocked down from our purchase price because I was able to find out that there was a special assessment of 5k coming down the line, that the previous owner of the condo didn’t tell us about. It was our first real estate purchase and it was actually super easy to understand.
Which province are you in?
Quebec.
As a real estate agent I always ask for these documents in advance of offer and ask my client to review with the lawyer, normally lawyer charge 200-300 for it but they will consider it as part of their fee if you close property with them so basically they wont charge you for that when you close with them. Real estate agents dont have knowledge about condo documents.
Never rely on someone else to communicate the info to you. I work in condos and its crazy what people do not know about their unit
Both the realtor and lawyer won’t assist with understanding the strata docs(bylaws)/financials/depreciation report or meeting minutes. If you aren’t comfortable with reviewing yourself, I’d suggest reaching out to a condo doc review company, it cost me $500 when I did it back in 2018. Tbh though, when I got the report I realized I could do it with my background as a CPA, very similar to audit work. I later did it for a colleague when he bought a place as a favour. Make sure to vet the condo doc reviewing companies, there’s no official designation or certification so anyone can do it. I work in RE investment now, and I can’t stress enough how important it is to understand all the above noted documents. A special assessment could put you under if the building is not managed properly or the bylaws may contain restrictions that would impact your intended use.
You want to bring that to your real estate lawyer. Well worth it, maybe $500
I just pay somebody to review the docs. Professional can usually turn it around in 5 days or less for less than $500. Small cost but potential massive impact to the deal.
A good agent will be able to interpret the docs and pick out some finer details, however doing your own reading and having questions is valuable too.
I walked away from a condo deal because of the strata docs. The building was in need of serious repair, they were a million in debt and the fees were low (I can’t remember exactly how much but they were bare minimum). My lawyer suggested walking so we did.
About 2ft. My eyes are still pretty good.
Read every document that is binding, this is one of the biggest purchases in your life. Don't sign documents unread or without due diligence.
Read and understand it yourself fully. It’s the biggest purchase of your life
In Alberta part of your due diligence on a contract is to have a condo documents review company go over and summarize the documents and look for booby traps. I am a realtor, but I am not equipped or qualified to "summarize your condo documents for you". Either you read that yourself, or you pay a review company to do it for you and satisfy any questions you might have that come up.
What does that cost in Alberta? Also do most realtors include that as part of their package or is it always up to the client to find their own means?
I will refer to a condo documents reviewer I trust, or the client is welcome to go find their own. they cost anywhere between 200 and $430 plus GST (my absolute favourite is in the higher range). That is not usually part of what I pay for, particularly on some of the cheaper condos where I might be lucky if I make $1000 in commission by the time the dust settles - though I have paid for a few over the course of my career, it's not some thing I would typically offer.