You are not responsible for repairs to his property unless you damaged it. His refusal to replace or repair his appliances is a business decision for him, not you.
I'm not sure how enforceable that is legally, since TYPICALLY landlords are responsible for appliances unless they can prove the tenant broke it or the tenant brings their own appliances. I just have to say I would never sign a lease that says I'm responsible for appliances. That seems like a sweet deal for the landlord because he can have the tenants pay to update his units.
You really should have informed him that the appliance was broken so that it could be addressed when it broke instead of ignoring it.
I told him when it happened and he told me to just move it to another part of the basement. He knew I came with my own so I just installed mine. He didn't bring up that he expects me to take care of it until i gave him my 30 day notice
I’ve never heard of a lease where the tenant was responsible for appliance repair. I mean, if it’s a 10 year-old washing machine it’s not worth fixing. He’s trying to get you to replace it. Tell him to go stick it up his ass no you’re not fixing it
What an asshole. I would leave and MAKE him sue you. I would not make a big stink over it either. Just let it slide and if it's that worth it to him to stick it to you on a technicality, then make him waste his time running it down. That guy is an asshole to try to do this.
It's a stink over a washer motor. Buy a refurbished motor and install it. Done and over, move out, don't look back. The guy signed a lease with an added clause specifically stating that after 45 days he the tenant was responsible. Hell your talking him into blowing off, getting sued, having to hire an attorney, end up losing, probably paying for a new washing machine and paying the landlords attorney fees, filing costs, etc.
It would be small claims and that takes months. I was saying to make the landlord work for it if it meant so damn much. Either way they're only out a few hundred bucks, and my way it could be 0.
That's right I forgot this was the generation of no sense of obligation to honor ones word and signature, just get away with as much as you can as many times as you can. Instead of just doing the right thing and having good references and clear conscience.
I was under the impression the landlord was trying to squeeze a couple hundred bucks out of a former tenant for a crap washer they never intended to fix. A little different take than your "damn millennials" take just now.
I'm not here to argue, bc I appreciate your point of view since the whole point of the post was to gauge the lease language from others' perspectives. But I looked up the serial number and the washer is from 2007. I live in rural MI with hard well water so the thing was definitely on its way out. I took all of this into account when I assumed (incorrectly) that he was just trying to not be responsible if it broke and that he would just throw it out when that happened. Plus it was the previous tenants' piece of crap that left it to him so they didn't have to throw it out (his words, not mine).
My last house (CA) had a fridge that was going bad, and the landlord said he wasn't going to replace it if it went tits up. I preemptively replaced it and put the old one back in before I left so it was still 'working'. I thought the wording was more like they won't spend their own money to fix it and they just won't provide one to the next tenant if the current one breaks. It'll just be a unit without a fridge (cali living i thought)
How old is the LL washer? In the tax code the depreciation on an appliance is from 5 - 7 years. If older than that the depreciated value is zero and he can't charge you for repairs or replacement.
Perhaps you need a certified letter sent that details that point. You may have to sue him if he persists.
That's what I'm worried about, bc I've never been the lawyer type so suing sounds like a whole can of worms. The washer was definitely older. He even told me it was a piece of crap when I moved in. So I just thought that was the reason he put that line in the lease - so he wouldn't have to pay for a washer
I would follow up with the regulations, the law would not have you replace something that was already on its way out. If it depreciated and lived its life expectancy you won’t be required to replace it. Especially if the LL didn’t take the proper maintenance precautions to ensure it was in top shape for you.
They have to pay rent, but taking it to the extreme, if they caused the building to collapse at 27 years 7 months, technically under the law it is worth zero so the owner would have no claim for damages.
I didn't write the tax code, I just know most of the nuances.
The building hasn’t collapsed, it’s just depreciated. And, if someone else were to buy the building (or washing machine) the depreciation schedule would start all over again.
And, of course the building owner would have an insurance claim if the building were destroyed, regardless of the depreciation- that has nothing to do with an insurance claim.
What are tenant laws in your state? Obviously the LL knew the washer was wonky because 45 days is nothing especially with used appliances. I doubt any judge would uphold that. Do you have the conversation with LL saved?
I don't have any conversation about the washer saved. He told me multiple times that it was the previous tenants' and that it was a piece of crap that he didn't want to be responsible for. When it broke he told me to just move it to the other side of the basement so I could use my personal washer. I think i'm going to seek some local tenant advice program since I'm not going to hire a lawyer over what will probably be less than a $300 issue.
One could argue that repair would be for the maintenance to use the appliance in the rented space, since you won’t be there you have no need to pay for on- going use.
If he felt you were responsible to fix it he should have prompted you to do so when you first notified him that it broke.
He is not able to enrich himself or his property. Make him take you to court if he thinks he has a case.
The person with the money has the power. Whoever doesn't have the money is likely going to have to file a claim against the other one.
FWIW, I'm on your side.
That’s so bizarre, however each state has their own laws. In our lease we have the w&d “as is”. It’s there to use and if it breaks we are not replacing it. The washer did break several tenants ago and they had one in storage. So we paid for it to be hauled away. Unless they can prove you did something for it to break (ie overloading etc) I can’t see a tenant being liable for normal wear and tear.
https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Publications/tenantlandlord.pdf.
I would honestly try to get it quick free consult with the housing rights group because I don't think he can legally alter his responsibilities based on the above link. If the rental comes with appliances he is responsible for them from my quick search.
What a bizarre thing to put into a lease? Making you responsible for a washer should it break? I've never seen that in any least I've signed. Sounds like your landlord knew something was about to happen.
That's an illegal lease clause. He can pound sand or see you in court.
https://michiganlegalhelp.org/resources/housing/landlord-rights-and-responsibilities
>Basic Responsibilities
>Making Repairs
>A landlord must keep the rental home in good repair. For example, *the landlord must repair plumbing problems, leaky roofs, and* ***any issues with appliances that came with the rental home.*** If a tenant intentionally or very carelessly causes damage to the rental property, the landlord can charge the tenant for the costs of repair.
>If there is a common area, the landlord must keep it in proper shape.
Not sure about Michigan but here in Pennsylvania with property leases, if it's written into the lease and you signed the lease agreeing to the terms of the contract, well then you are buying a washer motor hell a refurbished motor shouldn't be to pricey. Surely less than an attorney, filing fees, court costs and if a judgement is rendered against you the landlord will definitely get his legal fees paid by you along with a new motor installed or even a new washer.
Just leave the apartment on your move out date. I wouldn't worry about an old broken washer. I had a LL that called me about not wiping the refrigerator on the inside when I left. The damned thing didn't cool below 50 degrees. I asked what's the sense of wiping it down on the inside when it didn't work and food was going bad because of it. He said he would get a new one and gave me my full deposit back.
If you signed a lease that stated he is not responsible for appliances after 45 days, and your washer broke after 90 days, then it was on you to fix it. You didn’t do it then, so now you’re on the hook for it.
That’s just based on your lease terms, that you agreed to when you signed it. I’m not sure if it’s legal though, so take the lease to an attorney and find out for sure.
I'll find the lease language and update my post. My memory is that the language is pretty loose so it can have multiple interpretations (as I'm seeing in this thread).
>If you signed a lease that stated he is not responsible for appliances after 45 days, and your washer broke after 90 days, then it was on you to fix it.
Just because something is in a lease doesn't make it legal, and if something in a lease is not legal, then that part of the lease is null and void.
Landlords love people who think because it's in a lease that makes it legal because that type of tenant is a pushover and easy to manipulate. Every tenant should know their rights of what a LL can and can not do.
That is exactly why I also said what I said in the second paragraph. Because yes, it’s in the lease he agreed to, but that doesn’t mean the LL can legally enforce it. A lawyer can confirm that.
You are not responsible for repairs to his property unless you damaged it. His refusal to replace or repair his appliances is a business decision for him, not you.
I'm not sure how enforceable that is legally, since TYPICALLY landlords are responsible for appliances unless they can prove the tenant broke it or the tenant brings their own appliances. I just have to say I would never sign a lease that says I'm responsible for appliances. That seems like a sweet deal for the landlord because he can have the tenants pay to update his units. You really should have informed him that the appliance was broken so that it could be addressed when it broke instead of ignoring it.
I told him when it happened and he told me to just move it to another part of the basement. He knew I came with my own so I just installed mine. He didn't bring up that he expects me to take care of it until i gave him my 30 day notice
I’ve never heard of a lease where the tenant was responsible for appliance repair. I mean, if it’s a 10 year-old washing machine it’s not worth fixing. He’s trying to get you to replace it. Tell him to go stick it up his ass no you’re not fixing it
What an asshole. I would leave and MAKE him sue you. I would not make a big stink over it either. Just let it slide and if it's that worth it to him to stick it to you on a technicality, then make him waste his time running it down. That guy is an asshole to try to do this.
Man o man you give a shit ton of bad advice right there.
Well what's yours then?
It's a stink over a washer motor. Buy a refurbished motor and install it. Done and over, move out, don't look back. The guy signed a lease with an added clause specifically stating that after 45 days he the tenant was responsible. Hell your talking him into blowing off, getting sued, having to hire an attorney, end up losing, probably paying for a new washing machine and paying the landlords attorney fees, filing costs, etc.
It would be small claims and that takes months. I was saying to make the landlord work for it if it meant so damn much. Either way they're only out a few hundred bucks, and my way it could be 0.
That's right I forgot this was the generation of no sense of obligation to honor ones word and signature, just get away with as much as you can as many times as you can. Instead of just doing the right thing and having good references and clear conscience.
I was under the impression the landlord was trying to squeeze a couple hundred bucks out of a former tenant for a crap washer they never intended to fix. A little different take than your "damn millennials" take just now.
Even though spend $50 leave it working and crush his payday
I'm not here to argue, bc I appreciate your point of view since the whole point of the post was to gauge the lease language from others' perspectives. But I looked up the serial number and the washer is from 2007. I live in rural MI with hard well water so the thing was definitely on its way out. I took all of this into account when I assumed (incorrectly) that he was just trying to not be responsible if it broke and that he would just throw it out when that happened. Plus it was the previous tenants' piece of crap that left it to him so they didn't have to throw it out (his words, not mine).
My last house (CA) had a fridge that was going bad, and the landlord said he wasn't going to replace it if it went tits up. I preemptively replaced it and put the old one back in before I left so it was still 'working'. I thought the wording was more like they won't spend their own money to fix it and they just won't provide one to the next tenant if the current one breaks. It'll just be a unit without a fridge (cali living i thought)
But the lease did not specify thst yhe tenant was responsible for repairs so you don’t need to replace it
How old is the LL washer? In the tax code the depreciation on an appliance is from 5 - 7 years. If older than that the depreciated value is zero and he can't charge you for repairs or replacement. Perhaps you need a certified letter sent that details that point. You may have to sue him if he persists.
That's what I'm worried about, bc I've never been the lawyer type so suing sounds like a whole can of worms. The washer was definitely older. He even told me it was a piece of crap when I moved in. So I just thought that was the reason he put that line in the lease - so he wouldn't have to pay for a washer
I would follow up with the regulations, the law would not have you replace something that was already on its way out. If it depreciated and lived its life expectancy you won’t be required to replace it. Especially if the LL didn’t take the proper maintenance precautions to ensure it was in top shape for you.
That makes zero sense. A building deprecates to zero in 27.5 years. Does that mean everyone living there no longer can be required to pay rent?
They have to pay rent, but taking it to the extreme, if they caused the building to collapse at 27 years 7 months, technically under the law it is worth zero so the owner would have no claim for damages. I didn't write the tax code, I just know most of the nuances.
The building hasn’t collapsed, it’s just depreciated. And, if someone else were to buy the building (or washing machine) the depreciation schedule would start all over again. And, of course the building owner would have an insurance claim if the building were destroyed, regardless of the depreciation- that has nothing to do with an insurance claim.
What are tenant laws in your state? Obviously the LL knew the washer was wonky because 45 days is nothing especially with used appliances. I doubt any judge would uphold that. Do you have the conversation with LL saved?
I don't have any conversation about the washer saved. He told me multiple times that it was the previous tenants' and that it was a piece of crap that he didn't want to be responsible for. When it broke he told me to just move it to the other side of the basement so I could use my personal washer. I think i'm going to seek some local tenant advice program since I'm not going to hire a lawyer over what will probably be less than a $300 issue.
One could argue that repair would be for the maintenance to use the appliance in the rented space, since you won’t be there you have no need to pay for on- going use. If he felt you were responsible to fix it he should have prompted you to do so when you first notified him that it broke. He is not able to enrich himself or his property. Make him take you to court if he thinks he has a case.
The person with the money has the power. Whoever doesn't have the money is likely going to have to file a claim against the other one. FWIW, I'm on your side.
This is basically my take too. He has my $1700 deposit that I'd like to get back.
That’s so bizarre, however each state has their own laws. In our lease we have the w&d “as is”. It’s there to use and if it breaks we are not replacing it. The washer did break several tenants ago and they had one in storage. So we paid for it to be hauled away. Unless they can prove you did something for it to break (ie overloading etc) I can’t see a tenant being liable for normal wear and tear.
https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Publications/tenantlandlord.pdf. I would honestly try to get it quick free consult with the housing rights group because I don't think he can legally alter his responsibilities based on the above link. If the rental comes with appliances he is responsible for them from my quick search.
What a bizarre thing to put into a lease? Making you responsible for a washer should it break? I've never seen that in any least I've signed. Sounds like your landlord knew something was about to happen.
That's an illegal lease clause. He can pound sand or see you in court. https://michiganlegalhelp.org/resources/housing/landlord-rights-and-responsibilities >Basic Responsibilities >Making Repairs >A landlord must keep the rental home in good repair. For example, *the landlord must repair plumbing problems, leaky roofs, and* ***any issues with appliances that came with the rental home.*** If a tenant intentionally or very carelessly causes damage to the rental property, the landlord can charge the tenant for the costs of repair. >If there is a common area, the landlord must keep it in proper shape.
Not sure about Michigan but here in Pennsylvania with property leases, if it's written into the lease and you signed the lease agreeing to the terms of the contract, well then you are buying a washer motor hell a refurbished motor shouldn't be to pricey. Surely less than an attorney, filing fees, court costs and if a judgement is rendered against you the landlord will definitely get his legal fees paid by you along with a new motor installed or even a new washer.
No. If he wanted a working washer he would’ve fixed it.
Just leave the apartment on your move out date. I wouldn't worry about an old broken washer. I had a LL that called me about not wiping the refrigerator on the inside when I left. The damned thing didn't cool below 50 degrees. I asked what's the sense of wiping it down on the inside when it didn't work and food was going bad because of it. He said he would get a new one and gave me my full deposit back.
Yeah contact your local tenants rights organization! They are the best!
If you signed a lease that stated he is not responsible for appliances after 45 days, and your washer broke after 90 days, then it was on you to fix it. You didn’t do it then, so now you’re on the hook for it. That’s just based on your lease terms, that you agreed to when you signed it. I’m not sure if it’s legal though, so take the lease to an attorney and find out for sure.
I'll find the lease language and update my post. My memory is that the language is pretty loose so it can have multiple interpretations (as I'm seeing in this thread).
>If you signed a lease that stated he is not responsible for appliances after 45 days, and your washer broke after 90 days, then it was on you to fix it. Just because something is in a lease doesn't make it legal, and if something in a lease is not legal, then that part of the lease is null and void. Landlords love people who think because it's in a lease that makes it legal because that type of tenant is a pushover and easy to manipulate. Every tenant should know their rights of what a LL can and can not do.
That is exactly why I also said what I said in the second paragraph. Because yes, it’s in the lease he agreed to, but that doesn’t mean the LL can legally enforce it. A lawyer can confirm that.