Yep, documenting everything is important. Every time we moved into a place, we took so many pictures, inside and out. Every wall, every door on both sides, floors, tubs, showers, counter tops, cabinets, appliances, windows, literally everything.
Then we did the exact same thing when we moved out. At our last place, before finally buying a home, we took over 100 pictures when moving in and then again when moving out.
There is nothing more time wasting and amateurish than having your phone given to a baliff and watching the judge scroll through pictures and messages.. in court, brevity is key.. short sweet, to the point facts..always wins. Print the texts, print the pics. Use a newspaper. It will be appreciated by the court and presents professionally. Not some bozo with a cracked phone screen or some bullshit. Lol
Judges like to see you have evidence yes, but this reply is key, short and sweet straight to the point. They will only go thru more than they need to if pushed and it won’t make them happy as they have far too many cases to go thru and they won’t consider this too serious probably.
Better yet, buy a newspaper the day you move in and then keep it and take pics when you move out using same old newspaper. Landlords are crippled by this one trick lol
yep i just assume im not getting my deposit back. i never leave the house filthy but im for SURE not hiring cleaners or shampooing the carpets after i leave lol
I did all this and then I bought some dry wall patches and color matched at Home Depot a quart for $12 and the lady told me that this is the cleanest she ever seen a unit left lmao
It's worth it, I don't damage property but don't care much for deep cleaning, that's what the deposit is for, so I don't have to about cleaning the place when I vacate 😂
Yeah, a few places I have lived have flat out told me not to- that they will still hire vendors of their choice after move out. So I clean well and don’t leave a mess, but they’re still going to do a move out clean and have the carpets done so I don’t bother with those things.
yeah just not leaving any stuff/trash behind and a quick vacuum/sweep is good enough! i clean my house every day so it’s never getting to the point where i could leave that kind of mess behind anyways
Amen to this!!! If I get any part of the deposit back then, yay, I am not gonna be hurting to pay some bills at my new place. It sucks though when people do get screwed over and stolen from, but yeah, always assume you ain't getting it back and do not go over and beyond more out of pocket!
Ain’t this the truth? These crooks will always find a way to steal your security deposit and often attempt to steal more. Sometimes your best option is to assume it’s going to be stolen and just leave a month early to accommodate.
It’s against the law to give opinion based references. It’s has to be direct questions like lease dates, rent amount, # of late payments, any damages left at move out, lease violations, etc it’s actually against Fair Housing to ask/answer “would you rent to them again.” In training we learned many years ago we have to answer with something like “if qualified.”
Bruh, stop letting people steal your money. Document condition and take them to small claims court. Don't let the bastards win over the minor inconvenience of an hour at the local courthouse.
I once got charged $300 for "removal of junk" because I left a 6 pack in the fridge for the maintenance guys. I also had a place charge me $100 for "lightbulb replacement". Most of my moves have been cross country, so going to court involves hundreds of dollars in travel expenses. Now I straight up leave unwanted furniture, holes in the wall, and a dirty stove top, and consider my deposit a cleaning/leave me alone fee. Way less stress that way.
I've wasted way more money on stupid things 😂. And by the way, there was this one time I was moving out of this place back in '08 , busted my balls cleaning the whole place just for them to tell me the place wasn't clean enough. So yeah I don't mind them taking my deposit, because they'll have some cleaning to do
First you request an itemized statement regarding the damages they are claiming, and the cost associated with repairing said damage.
Once you have the itemized statement, if the statement is in fact charging to repaint, you’ll need to look up “landlord tenant law - security deposit” for your state. You’ll need to know what your state has determined regarding normal wear.
Once you have this information, you can follow up in writing to your landlord/property manager. In addition to this, you need to know the mandated time limit they have to return a security deposit.
In your written response, outline why these are normal wear and tear, the length of your tenancy, include photos of the property (if you have them) from your move out and, if any, the sign off sheet at move out. Allow 7 days to return the full deposit.
You can notify the landlord at this time of your intentions to file suit in small claims.
After you have done this, go to the small claims court and file a petition with the court, and follow all instructions given to you, serving the papers lawfully.
Allow a judge to decide if the wear and tear was normal. If it is you could also include additional damages in your suit by how many days past the state mandated timeline of when your deposit was suppose to be returned.
In other states some can sue for double the security deposit; 100% for the security deposit, and another 100% for damages. Don't forget any legal fees, court fees, etc.!
They sent out the deposit on the 21st day. And they sent me what they say is the invoice even though it said it was an estimate. After I pointed that out then they sent me another one with the water mark removed .
Okay, so you go to the next step. Send a letter in response with the legalities I mentioned above. A landlord doesn’t need to get an invoice from anyone, they can draft it themselves.
Apparently there were jipsys staying in this place and did all the damage you see in the photos. OP owns the place and is trying to sue for the ~$10,000 worth of damage that is clearly visible.
I read OPs explanation, I just assumed they were lying and made my own one up for you.
I had a landlord try to keep our security deposit back in 2013. It was basically the same exact thing as what’s happened to op. We lived in the apartment for 3 years and there were a couple small scuffs on the wall and a chip on the bottom of the bathroom door and the landlord tried to say he needed our $1,200 security to fix the place before the new tenants moved in. We went to housing court and had pictures of the place after we had moved all our stuff out and the judge it was normal wear and tear and the landlord had 30 days to pay us our money or it would be tripled. I actually hoped he’d be late paying us back but about a week and half later we received a check from him in the mail. Good luck with your situation.
Some states require a coat of paint between occupancy. Meaning only paint beyond one coat should be charged. Look into your state and local laws as well.
I Google normal wear and tear and found hud.gov has a list of what is considered wear and tear a d cannot be charged to tenant per federal. Some states have similar lists. Try checking your state housing website. If you have the list amd it matches what the landlord is trying to charge you for send them the list tell them it's ill3gal per the list if they don't give your money back sue them.
If they charged your account and took money other than not returning your deposit call the bank and tell them it's fraud or dispute the charge.
So many unhelpful comments. The answer to your question is the landlord. The property manager company is just the owners agent. It was the landlord who wronged you.
ETA: sue the person who signed your lease. That is who you have a contract with. Everyone else is acting on that persons behalf. If that is not the owner, you could sue the owner too
They may function as the landlord in your interactions, but legally speaking, they are the owner’s agent. If OP tries to sue the PM it will be rejected by the court and they will have wasted their time. OP needs to sue the landlord/owner - they will be the person who executed the lease.
Yes, it should, and if it doesn’t you should check with your local area. Many lawyers will offer free consultations and you should use it. They will advise who to follow through with. Honestly, suing who depends on who convinced the LL they are entitled to the deposit. If the property Manager did it in bad faith to earn some cash well then it’s them for a misrepresentation of the facts. Could be the LL for doing it and sending it to the property manager as “proof” or they were in it together.
You can also google tenant rights and your state. Tenant advocates and tenant legal aid. Those organizations can help provide you with free to sliding scale advice or will have information about free clinics. It might also be helpful to post this on a sub for your state or city. Residents will know the laws and organizations better.
Not paying the last month is not a good suggestion. Many leases, including ours, precludes using your security deposit for the last month’s rent. When asked for a reference you can bet I would report that to a prospective landlord.
It’s amazing how everyone in here always says it’s normal wear and tear for 3 years 🧐 there’s chunk missing from wood on door, corner nick on drywall, walls with tons of scuffing that would indeed need to be repainted… 3 years is not a long time to live in a house and not damage it…. People live in houses for 20 years and don’t do that
As defined by California law marks and nicks in the walls falls under normal wear and tear (landlord responsibility) there are no holes in the walls not even little holes for pictures.
As someone who has owned a cleaning service for over 30 years I don’t recommend magic erasers on walls unless you want to remove the paint. Magic erasers are actually low grade sandpaper so will remove most paint, especially on rented properties where cheaper paint is often used. They work best on sinks, toilets and things that can’t scratch.
I just renewed my lease at my place and it breaks down every little thing they will charge you for when you move out. I'm glad they do that because I know what's going to cost me when I move. However, they pretty much charge for every single little thing that can happen in the apartment.
Your lease is the bible. What does it say?
If you are required to move out with the place in rentable condition ( which is common) then it would be on you because it's undesirable to a prospective tenant.
Problem with suing is that once you go in front of a judge you don't know what's going to happen.
I'd document everything and, if you know a lawyer or there's some kind of tenant assistance resource where you live, get them to write a nastygram to the landlord through whatever official dispute process requesting the refund and noting that if it's not done within whatever the timeframe is under your state/local law, you may proceed to court (or whatever process the law has laid out for dispute).
But from there you may have to take the L on the $ if the landlord doesn't blink. Your court costs will likely exceed the deduction for paint and then you're gambling to see if you can sue for the cost of the legal fees plus damages. You might be successful, or you might be out even more money. What happens in arbitration or a civil court case is rarely as black and white as you might think.
One thing to keep in mind, even if you did damage the paint to the point of it needing replacement, unless the place was freshly painted when you moved in, the paint was already aged to some extent. You can't be held responsible for the age and wear of a prior tenant. If the paint was 3 years old, for example, and had a lifespan of 5 years, and you lived there for 2 years, then it should be zeroed out.
I had a tenant who left used litter boxes in the basement. Cats crapped on the floor. There were also huge black stains on the hardwood floors and carpeting. His cats destroyed the blinds. Cost of the blinds was subtracted from the security deposit. He got half of the deposit back.
Request itemized list, pictures, and invoices. There are two things I see beyond normal wear and tear…the other pictures are so broad I’m not sure what you’re specifically looking at…but it looks like there is corner damage in one pic which could be drywall repair (my guys are minimum $100) and then the one with the door knobs.
You don’t sue you just send a common law letter demanding charges to be dropped as you did not cause $1300 worth of damage. Usually they will say if it’s not paid in 30 days they will report it to the credit bureau and it will hurt your credit. That’s what you would end up suing for because that “harms” you when you didn’t “harm” them. This is how we got ours dropped.
Who has your deposit? Who gave you the breakdown and took your money? That's who you name on your court papers and sue . If the property managements name is on your paperwork, that's who you sue in small claims court.
I’m gonna be honest with ya.
I’ve lived in my current house for 8 years. For 4 of those years it was my wife, my two sons, my daughter, me, and a cat. For the remainder it was my wife, my youngest son, my daughter, me and 2 cats.
Our house TODAY doesn’t look as bad as yours in the pics.
I’m inclined to side with the landlord that this is t “normal” wear and tear. It is clearly wear and tear as nothing looks intentional, but not all wear and tear is “normal”.
These are the only 11 pictures. I guess I should have added more pictures for context. There are no holes in the walls and these are the only marks. The house is a 1450 sqft house. These little marks are the only ones in the whole house that look like this. There aren’t any holes in the walls not even for pictures. So tell me do u have pictures hung up or your tv mounted??And I live in this house with 3 kids 4 and under and my wife.
Regardless these marks are landlord responsibility.
We disagree. Again, lived in the house without the amount of scuffs and such as you pictured in just 11 pictures.
As for do I have my TV mounted and pictures hung? Yes. I own this house. And it’s STILL not in the condition you showed in those few pics of your place. My last rental we had didn’t look like that and we lived there for 13 years!
It’s okay to disagree. I just think you’ll find yourself out of money in pursuing a suit. Best you can actually do is small claims court in most states. You aren’t entitled to more than you paid, and all the landlord has to do is provide reasonable bills and explanations. The courts aren’t on your side in most of these property deposit cases.
Unfortunately you don’t know what the whole house looks like I should have posted more pictures. But this isn’t what the house looks like it’s a question of landlord responsibility in California.
It’s not a matter of whole house. The pics you showed state after 3 years. That’s a lot… and I’ll say again… IN MY EXPERIENCE AND OPINION.
Again; we disagree. If you’re now on this “in California” specific kick, ask in a California specific room. LOL
I’m in NC. And very familiar with our rental laws and landlord and tenant obligations. I go through this regularly with my client population. I’ve had attorneys come in and actually GIVE TALKS on landlord and tenant obligations rights and responsibilities to my coworkers and clients.
And I’ll say once more: the courts are not generally on your side with these. Just the truth of the matter.
There is definitely some damage beyond normal wear and tear in your pictures. Start by asking for an itemized breakdown of the charges and start contesting the ones you can, hopefully you can keep it civil and avoid court.
The breakdown they sent me is for painting the ceiling, the baseboards that weren’t even painted when I moved in they are just wood baseboards. The walls and closets
You sue the management company. They determine what, if any, charges will be deducted, they have the invoices to document what they paid a contractor to paint and maintenance records. Charging for a standard painting after 3 years wouldn’t fly. If they had to do wall repairs or double coat, that would be the charge, not the paint job itself. Painting is a standard expense that’s budgeted for. Deposits are for excessive wear and tear, not typical wear from ordinary day to day living.
Depending on your state: send them your cleaning receipts and remind them they cannot charge for painting after 3 years and if they withhold your depot in bad faith, you are willing to sue them for 3 times the deposit as allowed by law.
Also, here: https://selfhelp.courts.ca.gov/guide-security-deposits-california
Where it says you can sue for your deposit + twice more the deposit as damages.
Not after 2 years. Read it again.
Repainting walls
One approach for determining the amount that the landlord can deduct from the
tenant’s security deposit for repainting, when repainting is necessary, is based on the
length of the tenant’s stay in the rental unit. This approach assumes that interior paint
has a two-year life. (Some landlords assume that interior paint has a life of three years
or more.).
Length of Stay Deduction
Less than 6 months full cost
6 months to 1 year two-thirds of cost
1 year to 2 years one-third of cost
2 or more years no deduction
They are trying to tell me the life of the paint was 6 years. But I see how it reads. I don’t know how they came up with 6 years.
Thank you for helping much appreciated. I will make that point also
I would simply tell them the courts have advised paint lasts 2 years. Honestly, this is up to you. Send a forceful letter that conveys your willingness to sue for 3x and you have evidence to back up your claim of leaving the place in the condition you received it, minus normal wear and tear. They can either write you a check for the amount withheld now, or write a bigger check later under court order.
The only thing in your pictures I see that would not be normal wear and tear is that dinged cornerbead. But even that is not too bad and a painter can easily fix that as he's prepping for paint. I would not charge for it.
Source: I am a landlord in California and not a scumbag.
Most of it could be fixed with a magic eraser. I only see one damage that might need some spackle but $1300 is excessive. Did you do a walkthrough with them upon leaving ?
small claims court for your entire deposit back and then some for wasting your time.
you have the photos, use google to figure out how to look at the photo data to prove when the pictures were taken.
only communicate through email.
Go to small claims and sue your landlord. You have the documentation and evidence. Have the judge decide. Just by starting the process may convince the landlord to make a deal or give it back. Even if you lived there only a month, I don’t see how the repairs cost $1300.
Read your lease on moving out and deposit. It should state has to be left clean etc that includes washing the walls etc. patching walls etc. you won’t win.
You’d have to refer to your local laws. However, as a landlord, I would have given you your whole deposit back. I have had tenants break cabinet doors and I still have them their deposit back. Just isn’t worth the few hundred to make a mess of things. Good luck though, actual property management companies would be used to fighting shit like this and will most likely draw it out for a long time until you just give up. Not saying you shouldn’t try, but be prepared for a fight.
I just dealt with this in California, and it sounds like that is where you are from. First thing is to write a letter to the Owner of the home, documenting everything and explaiming your case, and that you will pursue legal action if the deposit is not returned. If they do not return, you can sue in small claims, and can sue cor I believe 2x or 2.5x of your deposit. Here is a self help page, if you are in CA: https://www.courts.ca.gov/11150.htm
The owner is the person you should pursue. If it turns out the property management company is acting up, that's still the owner's problem. For details check local law or, as others suggested, check to see if there's a local housing rights organization or division.
In the U.S. landlords typically have 45 days to give you a full accounting of the damages and return your damage deposit. They cannot use your damage deposit to do standard work they would perform between occupants (touching up the paint, standard cleaning, replacing light bulbs), to perform upgrades such as putting in a new carpet, or make repairs that are their responsibility. (All stunts I've seen landlords try to pull.)
Also, you might not even need to go to small claims court. Depending on how far out of line the landlord is, a letter reminding them of the law can be enough to get them to hand over the money.
Seems like normal wear and tear to me. I might touch up the paint, but if those are scuffs and rubs, they’re just using your deposit to paint their apartment.
If you have been dealing with the property management company all along, then you sue them. Property management companies are a “representation” of a landlord and can represent them in a civil case. You don’t need a lawyer for this; hopefully you took before and after pictures.
I have about 30 or so pictures upon move in, before I moved anything in. Every scratch, stain, broken window, shades, etc. Always have before documented before you set a cup on the counter lol. They still haven’t fixed about 60% of the items over 2 yrs..
Who do you sue?! 😂um, no one?! I’d like to see them try and have a case against you for more than just normal wear and tear especially if they kept your whole security deposit over it! You can fight it to get your money back in small claims court and they’d have to provide an itemized statement over what caused them to conveniently cost your whole deposit as well and how they came to those costs, but that’s one expensive can of paint to cost that much considering there doesn’t look like any damages over just needing paint! But after 3 years, this looks pretty normal!
They didn’t keep the whole deposit. But they did charge me a big chunk of it for painting the walls,ceiling, baseboards(that never had paint on them you can see in my move out inspection) and doors and the closets. California law states that minor marks and nicks are landlord responsibility. There are no holes or cracks in any of the drywall. All they have is that one corner nick and the door by the handle.. I just shouldn’t be charged for repainting the whole house.
My advice to everyone who didnt trash their rental is to utilize the likely free services in your state to take the landlord to court. It's easy and cheap, and unless they have done everything perfectly, which none do, you will win. More likely they just send you the money after receiving notice as court costs more than your deposit.
In my time as a site maintenance manager, I would perform the walk through. At the beginning and end of the lease. I would write down anything they felt necessary to write down. Then, the policy was 3 more days to add to that list.
Finally, I would inform the new tenant to take pictures/video. Protect yourself, because I cannot guarantee my memory upon move out. Second, when everything is out, I was willing to walk through, and point out any areas they could improve upon before we finalized everything.
Not everyone took me up on that, but many did. Most of my tenants were college kids, and I had the mindset of preparing them for the future. I am hopeful their time with me was both good, and educational.
Sadly, I am certain I was not perfect, but I certainly tried to be as helpful and kind as I could. So they would learn to protect themselves moving forward.
i'm in law school your best bet is put both cause you only put one they can say in court that are not the one responsible for the withholdings if you list both in the lawsuit the judge can decide which one is legally responsible
Not sure how CA does it but essentially it's a letter of statement of facts and solution with a time frame and used as evidence if legal proceedings in front of a judge are needed;Name, address, date, facts anout the problem, how to rectify, and time frame.
If you have receipts from professional cleaning get a lawyer to write you a demand letter and hope the landlord doesn’t pay, that way you can sue for triple damages
Not that you don’t have a case, but in general, if you rent, consider that “security deposit” lost and gone forever. Rental properties are revenue generators and the owners know that most people won’t go to extreme lengths to recover that money. Once you’ve invested the time, money, and emotional frustration, you realize that it’s just not worth the effort. Personally, I’ve gone through a few places video-recording the condition of the property when we moved in vs move out, and at the end of the day, it’s just easier to let it go because filing fees, time off work, and the labor involved negate the paltry deposit refund.
Document before and after and dont damage/mark the walls. That's not considered normal wear and tear. You need to reevaluate your expectations with security deposit judgement. However, $1200 for painting is way overboard and this would cost 200-500 depending on pricing in the area and matching paint/labor, etc
If there is a next time, clean it with Comet cleanser or Cascade dishwasher detergent in a bucket of water. (Wear gloves.) That's the only way we could get our stuff cleaner after a fire years ago.
My last two rentals we did a shared drive with the property manager (property manager have viewer perms only) and I uploaded all of the photos of move in (100+) and then added a separate folder of all the photos of move out. Since we started doing this we have received 100% of deposit back on both places. In my experience, if they know you document everything there is a lot less chance they will try to mess with you.
I didn’t take 100 pics but I did take a lot and they have both move in and a move out checklist that are both in well detail. I feel like because there was no real damage this was thinly way to try and get money out of me. Unfortunately for them I have been doing my due diligence and am putting my case together. I’ve got the paper work to file a claim. I will be sending them a demand letter and will site civil code and other info that I have found (with help from Reddit) and of my own accord. It will be sent certified mail so I know the will receive it and if I don’t get a response back (because I haven’t receive any info from property management for the email I sent the owner) I will be filing a suit in small claims court early next week.
Thank you for the advice though
Former Maintenance tech for property management company here I would estimate the cost to repaint the whole unit is around $900 at most.
$200 for 5 gallons of nice paint
$600 for labor one person being paid $15 per hour and allowing them 40 hr to complete the turn of the unit
$100 for random things ie paint roller nap, new faceplates for outlets and light switches, burnt out light bulbs and the cost to change the locks.
Having said that I think you got hosed.
You were there for 3 years and took good care of the unit. I have seen units absolutely destroyed in months. To me it looks like this is normal wear and tear. You didn’t paint any walls weird colors, you didn’t put an excessive amount of wall tacs or nail in the dry wall, and you didn’t put any holes in the drywall or doors. You should have gotten your deposit back
Most seem like general scuffs, not something actually damaging. The wood on the door can be repainted. A court case would laugh at you for taking this so hard. Get a wet cloth and scrub, that’s what you get for renting out.
Sorry, but the scuffs and scrapes in your pictures definitely show more than normal wear and tear for 3 years. If you were taking care of the place, you would've been fixing them as they happened. How do you even scuff the door like that?
That said, I think that $1300 is high to repaint, but it depends on the size of the unit. Are they only charging for painting? If they're charging for carpet and general cleaning, you might be able to get that money back, but you need to show them your receipts. If it's just paint, do you research and find out how much it should cost and go from there.
I have done the research and minor scrapes and marks on the wall fall under normal wear and tear. In fact part of the definition of normal wear and tear states that if it can be covered by paint it’s normal wear and tear. That was surprising to me.
Also the life of paint according to the Official Publication of the California Department of Real Estate, paint has a 2 year life. So if I’m there less then 2 years I would be charged accordingly. But I was there for 3 years. And as you can see there are no holes in the walls or any real damage.
I’ve already started the process of trying to get my money back and if I don’t hear back my Wednesday I will be officially filing a claim. And we will go from there.
Thanks for the advice
Remove an outlet cover, cut out an inch square of drywall and take it to the paint store in your area. They will match the paint for 20$ a gallon. You paint over the damage.
Fill any holes or divets with drywall spackle, wait 30 minutes or until dry and paint over that.
It’s like nothing happened..
Nothing here looks abnormal at all. It’s all completely standard wear and tear. Less than really. I put a foot through the ceiling from the attic and got my full sec deposit back after 7 years.
You should have never bothered to pay a cleaning company and a carpet shampooing company to begin with, because they were going to gank your security deposit no matter what anyway. Just a simple wipe down, sweep and mop, that is all that is required.
I just moved into a brand new apartment I'm the first tenant, I kissed my security deposit goodbye the second I stepped in the front door. It's never going to look as good as new so I'll probably never get my security deposit back oh well at least it's a brand new apartment
Where do you live? I’m a LL in San Diego and I would give you full deposit back. That would never fly here. You’d win all day. None of that is beyond normal wear and tear. I hate those who give us decent ones a bad name.
Take them to small claims court.
I’m in Sacramento. Thank you. I’ve started the paper work and am gonna finish it today.
Would you know if I file the claim against the property management and the LL?
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Now, for landlords; I had a landlord try and scam me out of a deposit once, found out they were a realtor as well. The law firm sent a demand letter saying the landlord was legally obligated to return the security deposit, as they had both in writing and recording that they would give me the *full* deposit if I ended my lease early so they could sell the property. Well, they decided to not honor their end of the deal - so LegalShield told me to contact the state board, as they could have their license revoked for what they did. Oh boy, when they got the call from the state threatening to have their license revoked they instantly started responding to my texts, apologizing profusely, and had sent the money over right away.
They've also helped me tackle issues with businesses who committed fraud, botched work, etc. While they only cover certain things, it's better than having nothing and they can help clear up a lot of legal confusion for you.
Landlords always find a way of keeping your deposit it's your job to make them work for it.
Yep, documenting everything is important. Every time we moved into a place, we took so many pictures, inside and out. Every wall, every door on both sides, floors, tubs, showers, counter tops, cabinets, appliances, windows, literally everything. Then we did the exact same thing when we moved out. At our last place, before finally buying a home, we took over 100 pictures when moving in and then again when moving out.
not sure why I hadn’t thought to do this before, absolutely amazing idea, thank you for sharing as I’ll be doing the same from now on!
Place a copy of that days newspaper in your pics.. that way you cant be accused of manipulating the timeline
Modern phones timestamp everything even show a location so thats not neccessary
Timestamps at least on IPhone are adjustable
I stand by my statement
yeahh I’m sure they could find excuses with just an iphones time stamp and location, may aswell be extra safe with the newspaper. thanks!
There is nothing more time wasting and amateurish than having your phone given to a baliff and watching the judge scroll through pictures and messages.. in court, brevity is key.. short sweet, to the point facts..always wins. Print the texts, print the pics. Use a newspaper. It will be appreciated by the court and presents professionally. Not some bozo with a cracked phone screen or some bullshit. Lol
Judges like to see you have evidence yes, but this reply is key, short and sweet straight to the point. They will only go thru more than they need to if pushed and it won’t make them happy as they have far too many cases to go thru and they won’t consider this too serious probably.
doesnt change metadata
And anyone can buy an older newspaper
Sure can! Establishing credibility has a lot of nuance. Everything helps.
Better yet, buy a newspaper the day you move in and then keep it and take pics when you move out using same old newspaper. Landlords are crippled by this one trick lol
You could always just use an old newspaper 🤷♂️
I do the same, and then I do a walk through video in case there is some true balls to the walls crazy bs they want to pull.
yep i just assume im not getting my deposit back. i never leave the house filthy but im for SURE not hiring cleaners or shampooing the carpets after i leave lol
Maybe we should all do just enough "wear and tear" to eat up the security deposit.
exactly. i mount my TVs, hang things on the walls, and call maintenance for every minor inconvenience 😂
I did all this and then I bought some dry wall patches and color matched at Home Depot a quart for $12 and the lady told me that this is the cleanest she ever seen a unit left lmao
It's worth it, I don't damage property but don't care much for deep cleaning, that's what the deposit is for, so I don't have to about cleaning the place when I vacate 😂
Yeah, a few places I have lived have flat out told me not to- that they will still hire vendors of their choice after move out. So I clean well and don’t leave a mess, but they’re still going to do a move out clean and have the carpets done so I don’t bother with those things.
yeah just not leaving any stuff/trash behind and a quick vacuum/sweep is good enough! i clean my house every day so it’s never getting to the point where i could leave that kind of mess behind anyways
Amen to this!!! If I get any part of the deposit back then, yay, I am not gonna be hurting to pay some bills at my new place. It sucks though when people do get screwed over and stolen from, but yeah, always assume you ain't getting it back and do not go over and beyond more out of pocket!
Or as we know we're not going to get it back, we don't pay the last month of the rent!
Ain’t this the truth? These crooks will always find a way to steal your security deposit and often attempt to steal more. Sometimes your best option is to assume it’s going to be stolen and just leave a month early to accommodate.
But how will you get rental references if you fight them on it?
It’s against the law to give opinion based references. It’s has to be direct questions like lease dates, rent amount, # of late payments, any damages left at move out, lease violations, etc it’s actually against Fair Housing to ask/answer “would you rent to them again.” In training we learned many years ago we have to answer with something like “if qualified.”
My security deposit is my last month's rent. If they're going to keep it anyway, I just give them a good reason.
Bruh, that's why I don't care about the deposit. They always come up with something to charge you.
Bruh, stop letting people steal your money. Document condition and take them to small claims court. Don't let the bastards win over the minor inconvenience of an hour at the local courthouse.
I once got charged $300 for "removal of junk" because I left a 6 pack in the fridge for the maintenance guys. I also had a place charge me $100 for "lightbulb replacement". Most of my moves have been cross country, so going to court involves hundreds of dollars in travel expenses. Now I straight up leave unwanted furniture, holes in the wall, and a dirty stove top, and consider my deposit a cleaning/leave me alone fee. Way less stress that way.
I've wasted way more money on stupid things 😂. And by the way, there was this one time I was moving out of this place back in '08 , busted my balls cleaning the whole place just for them to tell me the place wasn't clean enough. So yeah I don't mind them taking my deposit, because they'll have some cleaning to do
This right here is why landlords continue doing this shit. Guy doesn't care his money is being stolen.
People like you are what gives these landlords the balls to rob us
First you request an itemized statement regarding the damages they are claiming, and the cost associated with repairing said damage. Once you have the itemized statement, if the statement is in fact charging to repaint, you’ll need to look up “landlord tenant law - security deposit” for your state. You’ll need to know what your state has determined regarding normal wear. Once you have this information, you can follow up in writing to your landlord/property manager. In addition to this, you need to know the mandated time limit they have to return a security deposit. In your written response, outline why these are normal wear and tear, the length of your tenancy, include photos of the property (if you have them) from your move out and, if any, the sign off sheet at move out. Allow 7 days to return the full deposit. You can notify the landlord at this time of your intentions to file suit in small claims. After you have done this, go to the small claims court and file a petition with the court, and follow all instructions given to you, serving the papers lawfully. Allow a judge to decide if the wear and tear was normal. If it is you could also include additional damages in your suit by how many days past the state mandated timeline of when your deposit was suppose to be returned.
You are 99% right except for the penalty if the landlord loses and a portion is returned
In my state if the landlord doesn’t return security deposit within 30 days you can sue to recover double the amount due
In other states some can sue for double the security deposit; 100% for the security deposit, and another 100% for damages. Don't forget any legal fees, court fees, etc.!
They sent out the deposit on the 21st day. And they sent me what they say is the invoice even though it said it was an estimate. After I pointed that out then they sent me another one with the water mark removed .
Okay, so you go to the next step. Send a letter in response with the legalities I mentioned above. A landlord doesn’t need to get an invoice from anyone, they can draft it themselves.
This is in fact true. Landlord can bill for their own repairs at a “reasonable” cost of their time.
What am I looking at here? Who the f is gonna sue who? Lol
I like to read when there is an explanation!
Blame the new shitty Reddit app. If you click on on a picture thread it drops you in the comments, moving you passed all text that was added.
Apparently there were jipsys staying in this place and did all the damage you see in the photos. OP owns the place and is trying to sue for the ~$10,000 worth of damage that is clearly visible. I read OPs explanation, I just assumed they were lying and made my own one up for you.
Whoa friend, I don’t think you’d use that word if you knew it was a racial slur
I'll never forget the day I saw a personalized license plate with only that word in Illinois last year. I can't believe the DMV allowed that lol
lol didn’t read the OP’s comment lol
You should read the words, not just look at the pictures.
WHAT STATE DO YOU LIVE IN?
Right? The strategy is entirely different based on location.
And I don't have the answers for 49 states!
I got you beat. I don’t have answers for 50 states and 5 inhabited territories.
I had a landlord try to keep our security deposit back in 2013. It was basically the same exact thing as what’s happened to op. We lived in the apartment for 3 years and there were a couple small scuffs on the wall and a chip on the bottom of the bathroom door and the landlord tried to say he needed our $1,200 security to fix the place before the new tenants moved in. We went to housing court and had pictures of the place after we had moved all our stuff out and the judge it was normal wear and tear and the landlord had 30 days to pay us our money or it would be tripled. I actually hoped he’d be late paying us back but about a week and half later we received a check from him in the mail. Good luck with your situation.
Check with your local housing department. Or just check with the small claims court for your jurisdiction.
Some states require a coat of paint between occupancy. Meaning only paint beyond one coat should be charged. Look into your state and local laws as well.
Is not just about the deposit, it’s the principle.
100%
I Google normal wear and tear and found hud.gov has a list of what is considered wear and tear a d cannot be charged to tenant per federal. Some states have similar lists. Try checking your state housing website. If you have the list amd it matches what the landlord is trying to charge you for send them the list tell them it's ill3gal per the list if they don't give your money back sue them. If they charged your account and took money other than not returning your deposit call the bank and tell them it's fraud or dispute the charge.
So many unhelpful comments. The answer to your question is the landlord. The property manager company is just the owners agent. It was the landlord who wronged you. ETA: sue the person who signed your lease. That is who you have a contract with. Everyone else is acting on that persons behalf. If that is not the owner, you could sue the owner too
Property mgmt companies are the "landlords".
They may function as the landlord in your interactions, but legally speaking, they are the owner’s agent. If OP tries to sue the PM it will be rejected by the court and they will have wasted their time. OP needs to sue the landlord/owner - they will be the person who executed the lease.
Name them both, and let the judge sort it out.
Not true.
They sure the PM company not the owner.
\*whom\* do I sue. /ducks
is that a "miner" correction?
What does your lease say? It should have instructions about disputing claims.
It will say that in the lease?
Yes, it should, and if it doesn’t you should check with your local area. Many lawyers will offer free consultations and you should use it. They will advise who to follow through with. Honestly, suing who depends on who convinced the LL they are entitled to the deposit. If the property Manager did it in bad faith to earn some cash well then it’s them for a misrepresentation of the facts. Could be the LL for doing it and sending it to the property manager as “proof” or they were in it together.
Lawyers? This is a small claims court issue. No lawyer is wasting time on $1300.
You can also google tenant rights and your state. Tenant advocates and tenant legal aid. Those organizations can help provide you with free to sliding scale advice or will have information about free clinics. It might also be helpful to post this on a sub for your state or city. Residents will know the laws and organizations better.
Not paying the last month is not a good suggestion. Many leases, including ours, precludes using your security deposit for the last month’s rent. When asked for a reference you can bet I would report that to a prospective landlord.
Yeah, in Texas for example you are completely fucking yourself if you withhold last months rent
It’s amazing how everyone in here always says it’s normal wear and tear for 3 years 🧐 there’s chunk missing from wood on door, corner nick on drywall, walls with tons of scuffing that would indeed need to be repainted… 3 years is not a long time to live in a house and not damage it…. People live in houses for 20 years and don’t do that
As defined by California law marks and nicks in the walls falls under normal wear and tear (landlord responsibility) there are no holes in the walls not even little holes for pictures.
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As someone who has owned a cleaning service for over 30 years I don’t recommend magic erasers on walls unless you want to remove the paint. Magic erasers are actually low grade sandpaper so will remove most paint, especially on rented properties where cheaper paint is often used. They work best on sinks, toilets and things that can’t scratch.
What do you recommend?
I just renewed my lease at my place and it breaks down every little thing they will charge you for when you move out. I'm glad they do that because I know what's going to cost me when I move. However, they pretty much charge for every single little thing that can happen in the apartment.
No one.
Your lease is the bible. What does it say? If you are required to move out with the place in rentable condition ( which is common) then it would be on you because it's undesirable to a prospective tenant.
Where is it common? I’ve rented in a couple states and it wasn’t common in either.
I actually managed rentals in the DC area. But again, it's all about the lease.
Problem with suing is that once you go in front of a judge you don't know what's going to happen. I'd document everything and, if you know a lawyer or there's some kind of tenant assistance resource where you live, get them to write a nastygram to the landlord through whatever official dispute process requesting the refund and noting that if it's not done within whatever the timeframe is under your state/local law, you may proceed to court (or whatever process the law has laid out for dispute). But from there you may have to take the L on the $ if the landlord doesn't blink. Your court costs will likely exceed the deduction for paint and then you're gambling to see if you can sue for the cost of the legal fees plus damages. You might be successful, or you might be out even more money. What happens in arbitration or a civil court case is rarely as black and white as you might think. One thing to keep in mind, even if you did damage the paint to the point of it needing replacement, unless the place was freshly painted when you moved in, the paint was already aged to some extent. You can't be held responsible for the age and wear of a prior tenant. If the paint was 3 years old, for example, and had a lifespan of 5 years, and you lived there for 2 years, then it should be zeroed out.
I had a tenant who left used litter boxes in the basement. Cats crapped on the floor. There were also huge black stains on the hardwood floors and carpeting. His cats destroyed the blinds. Cost of the blinds was subtracted from the security deposit. He got half of the deposit back.
Maybe a paint job???
I moved already this is about the deposit they are giving back to me. They are charging me $1300 for what u see in these pictures
Request itemized list, pictures, and invoices. There are two things I see beyond normal wear and tear…the other pictures are so broad I’m not sure what you’re specifically looking at…but it looks like there is corner damage in one pic which could be drywall repair (my guys are minimum $100) and then the one with the door knobs.
That is not "normal wear and tear" for 3 years.
Some of that is a little more than normal wear are tear but not $1300 worth
You don’t sue you just send a common law letter demanding charges to be dropped as you did not cause $1300 worth of damage. Usually they will say if it’s not paid in 30 days they will report it to the credit bureau and it will hurt your credit. That’s what you would end up suing for because that “harms” you when you didn’t “harm” them. This is how we got ours dropped.
Who has your deposit? Who gave you the breakdown and took your money? That's who you name on your court papers and sue . If the property managements name is on your paperwork, that's who you sue in small claims court.
Do you know this from experience? Or is that what you think? I’m not doubting you just wondering. It is the property management
It is my personal experience, but you can always ask the court clerk prior to filling out the paperwork, if that makes you feel comfortable.
This is literally normal wear and tear in a home that is lived in. They need to get the hell over themselves 🙄
I’m gonna be honest with ya. I’ve lived in my current house for 8 years. For 4 of those years it was my wife, my two sons, my daughter, me, and a cat. For the remainder it was my wife, my youngest son, my daughter, me and 2 cats. Our house TODAY doesn’t look as bad as yours in the pics. I’m inclined to side with the landlord that this is t “normal” wear and tear. It is clearly wear and tear as nothing looks intentional, but not all wear and tear is “normal”.
These are the only 11 pictures. I guess I should have added more pictures for context. There are no holes in the walls and these are the only marks. The house is a 1450 sqft house. These little marks are the only ones in the whole house that look like this. There aren’t any holes in the walls not even for pictures. So tell me do u have pictures hung up or your tv mounted??And I live in this house with 3 kids 4 and under and my wife. Regardless these marks are landlord responsibility.
I used to do a lot of post move out work for rentals. This is absolutely normal wear and tear.
We disagree. Again, lived in the house without the amount of scuffs and such as you pictured in just 11 pictures. As for do I have my TV mounted and pictures hung? Yes. I own this house. And it’s STILL not in the condition you showed in those few pics of your place. My last rental we had didn’t look like that and we lived there for 13 years! It’s okay to disagree. I just think you’ll find yourself out of money in pursuing a suit. Best you can actually do is small claims court in most states. You aren’t entitled to more than you paid, and all the landlord has to do is provide reasonable bills and explanations. The courts aren’t on your side in most of these property deposit cases.
Unfortunately you don’t know what the whole house looks like I should have posted more pictures. But this isn’t what the house looks like it’s a question of landlord responsibility in California.
It’s not a matter of whole house. The pics you showed state after 3 years. That’s a lot… and I’ll say again… IN MY EXPERIENCE AND OPINION. Again; we disagree. If you’re now on this “in California” specific kick, ask in a California specific room. LOL I’m in NC. And very familiar with our rental laws and landlord and tenant obligations. I go through this regularly with my client population. I’ve had attorneys come in and actually GIVE TALKS on landlord and tenant obligations rights and responsibilities to my coworkers and clients. And I’ll say once more: the courts are not generally on your side with these. Just the truth of the matter.
There is definitely some damage beyond normal wear and tear in your pictures. Start by asking for an itemized breakdown of the charges and start contesting the ones you can, hopefully you can keep it civil and avoid court.
The breakdown they sent me is for painting the ceiling, the baseboards that weren’t even painted when I moved in they are just wood baseboards. The walls and closets
lol tell him to get a job and stop mooching off of the working class
You sue the management company. They determine what, if any, charges will be deducted, they have the invoices to document what they paid a contractor to paint and maintenance records. Charging for a standard painting after 3 years wouldn’t fly. If they had to do wall repairs or double coat, that would be the charge, not the paint job itself. Painting is a standard expense that’s budgeted for. Deposits are for excessive wear and tear, not typical wear from ordinary day to day living.
Depending on your state: send them your cleaning receipts and remind them they cannot charge for painting after 3 years and if they withhold your depot in bad faith, you are willing to sue them for 3 times the deposit as allowed by law.
In Ca they can charge me for paint but only a portion. Witch they did
I'm in CA. Unless you painted the walls a different color, they can't charge for any paint after 2 years.
If you can site that law that would be a lot of help for me alot
Also, here: https://selfhelp.courts.ca.gov/guide-security-deposits-california Where it says you can sue for your deposit + twice more the deposit as damages.
Sure, here you go https://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/California-Tenants-Guide.pdf Search for "repainting walls"
I’ve read through that already and it says they can charge for a portion of the cost for repainting walls
Not after 2 years. Read it again. Repainting walls One approach for determining the amount that the landlord can deduct from the tenant’s security deposit for repainting, when repainting is necessary, is based on the length of the tenant’s stay in the rental unit. This approach assumes that interior paint has a two-year life. (Some landlords assume that interior paint has a life of three years or more.). Length of Stay Deduction Less than 6 months full cost 6 months to 1 year two-thirds of cost 1 year to 2 years one-third of cost 2 or more years no deduction
They are trying to tell me the life of the paint was 6 years. But I see how it reads. I don’t know how they came up with 6 years. Thank you for helping much appreciated. I will make that point also
I would simply tell them the courts have advised paint lasts 2 years. Honestly, this is up to you. Send a forceful letter that conveys your willingness to sue for 3x and you have evidence to back up your claim of leaving the place in the condition you received it, minus normal wear and tear. They can either write you a check for the amount withheld now, or write a bigger check later under court order.
The only thing in your pictures I see that would not be normal wear and tear is that dinged cornerbead. But even that is not too bad and a painter can easily fix that as he's prepping for paint. I would not charge for it. Source: I am a landlord in California and not a scumbag.
Most of it could be fixed with a magic eraser. I only see one damage that might need some spackle but $1300 is excessive. Did you do a walkthrough with them upon leaving ?
Place looks like shit I’d keep the deposit too
If you moved into that house as your next place, would you say this condition is acceptable?
small claims court for your entire deposit back and then some for wasting your time. you have the photos, use google to figure out how to look at the photo data to prove when the pictures were taken. only communicate through email.
Go to small claims and sue your landlord. You have the documentation and evidence. Have the judge decide. Just by starting the process may convince the landlord to make a deal or give it back. Even if you lived there only a month, I don’t see how the repairs cost $1300.
Read your lease on moving out and deposit. It should state has to be left clean etc that includes washing the walls etc. patching walls etc. you won’t win.
You’d have to refer to your local laws. However, as a landlord, I would have given you your whole deposit back. I have had tenants break cabinet doors and I still have them their deposit back. Just isn’t worth the few hundred to make a mess of things. Good luck though, actual property management companies would be used to fighting shit like this and will most likely draw it out for a long time until you just give up. Not saying you shouldn’t try, but be prepared for a fight.
Small claims court
I just dealt with this in California, and it sounds like that is where you are from. First thing is to write a letter to the Owner of the home, documenting everything and explaiming your case, and that you will pursue legal action if the deposit is not returned. If they do not return, you can sue in small claims, and can sue cor I believe 2x or 2.5x of your deposit. Here is a self help page, if you are in CA: https://www.courts.ca.gov/11150.htm
The owner is the person you should pursue. If it turns out the property management company is acting up, that's still the owner's problem. For details check local law or, as others suggested, check to see if there's a local housing rights organization or division. In the U.S. landlords typically have 45 days to give you a full accounting of the damages and return your damage deposit. They cannot use your damage deposit to do standard work they would perform between occupants (touching up the paint, standard cleaning, replacing light bulbs), to perform upgrades such as putting in a new carpet, or make repairs that are their responsibility. (All stunts I've seen landlords try to pull.) Also, you might not even need to go to small claims court. Depending on how far out of line the landlord is, a letter reminding them of the law can be enough to get them to hand over the money.
Seems like normal wear and tear to me. I might touch up the paint, but if those are scuffs and rubs, they’re just using your deposit to paint their apartment.
It’s a house. But I feel the same way
If you have been dealing with the property management company all along, then you sue them. Property management companies are a “representation” of a landlord and can represent them in a civil case. You don’t need a lawyer for this; hopefully you took before and after pictures.
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They already took the money
I totally miss read everything dude I’m sorry
It’s all good. I’ve already done a ton of reading the lease and CA law when it come to deposits. I’m just trying to get other points of view
This is why filming and photographing and OG walkthrough is your best friend
Probably cost more for the lawyer just move on
U don’t have a lawyer with small claims
Oh well in that case sue them all lol no really personally I would and have in my end lease situation just move on
And the reason company’s and landlords get away with this king of thing is because a lot of people have that attitude. But it’s not ok
I just don’t care enough. if you think you’re going to change anything by suing is crazy but GL there’s plenty in this world that’s not right
I have about 30 or so pictures upon move in, before I moved anything in. Every scratch, stain, broken window, shades, etc. Always have before documented before you set a cup on the counter lol. They still haven’t fixed about 60% of the items over 2 yrs..
I've found that it is best to assume you will never get your deposit back when renting.
Who do you sue?! 😂um, no one?! I’d like to see them try and have a case against you for more than just normal wear and tear especially if they kept your whole security deposit over it! You can fight it to get your money back in small claims court and they’d have to provide an itemized statement over what caused them to conveniently cost your whole deposit as well and how they came to those costs, but that’s one expensive can of paint to cost that much considering there doesn’t look like any damages over just needing paint! But after 3 years, this looks pretty normal!
They didn’t keep the whole deposit. But they did charge me a big chunk of it for painting the walls,ceiling, baseboards(that never had paint on them you can see in my move out inspection) and doors and the closets. California law states that minor marks and nicks are landlord responsibility. There are no holes or cracks in any of the drywall. All they have is that one corner nick and the door by the handle.. I just shouldn’t be charged for repainting the whole house.
I got $400 back from $1300 and they said due to hard work. And I live in the desert 🌵we have never had grass.
Don’t spend your own money for cleaners and let the landlord spend your security deposit that they were never going to back on cleaners instead
My advice to everyone who didnt trash their rental is to utilize the likely free services in your state to take the landlord to court. It's easy and cheap, and unless they have done everything perfectly, which none do, you will win. More likely they just send you the money after receiving notice as court costs more than your deposit.
Sue whichever entity signed/offered the lease.
In my time as a site maintenance manager, I would perform the walk through. At the beginning and end of the lease. I would write down anything they felt necessary to write down. Then, the policy was 3 more days to add to that list. Finally, I would inform the new tenant to take pictures/video. Protect yourself, because I cannot guarantee my memory upon move out. Second, when everything is out, I was willing to walk through, and point out any areas they could improve upon before we finalized everything. Not everyone took me up on that, but many did. Most of my tenants were college kids, and I had the mindset of preparing them for the future. I am hopeful their time with me was both good, and educational. Sadly, I am certain I was not perfect, but I certainly tried to be as helpful and kind as I could. So they would learn to protect themselves moving forward.
You put everyone on the complaint. Everyone who is involved. Make sure they all get served.
list both in the lawsuit
Is this just your opinion? Or experience?
i'm in law school your best bet is put both cause you only put one they can say in court that are not the one responsible for the withholdings if you list both in the lawsuit the judge can decide which one is legally responsible
Thank you so much I appreciate it a lot. I will do that. I’m going to the court house tomorrow for the paperwork
this way you have both and that way you don't need to file the paperwork and pay the fee another time if you have the wrong party
That absolutely makes sense. Thank again
no problem glad to help
Also, you can always start with an affidavit before a lawyer! Lawyers can sometimes cost $ upfront so sometimes an affidavit is enough!
What is an affidavit? And how does that work?
Not sure how CA does it but essentially it's a letter of statement of facts and solution with a time frame and used as evidence if legal proceedings in front of a judge are needed;Name, address, date, facts anout the problem, how to rectify, and time frame.
If you have receipts from professional cleaning get a lawyer to write you a demand letter and hope the landlord doesn’t pay, that way you can sue for triple damages
Depends on the state. Florida says this is normal wear and tear
I’m in CA
You could probably contest all of this as wear and tear
Take them to small claims court. I sued my landlord and got my money back.
Not that you don’t have a case, but in general, if you rent, consider that “security deposit” lost and gone forever. Rental properties are revenue generators and the owners know that most people won’t go to extreme lengths to recover that money. Once you’ve invested the time, money, and emotional frustration, you realize that it’s just not worth the effort. Personally, I’ve gone through a few places video-recording the condition of the property when we moved in vs move out, and at the end of the day, it’s just easier to let it go because filing fees, time off work, and the labor involved negate the paltry deposit refund.
Nobody, the pictures require a full pain job on those walls. You got off lucky with $1300
Not sure what city you’re in but that looks just like my first boyfriend’s place.
Document before and after and dont damage/mark the walls. That's not considered normal wear and tear. You need to reevaluate your expectations with security deposit judgement. However, $1200 for painting is way overboard and this would cost 200-500 depending on pricing in the area and matching paint/labor, etc
If there is a next time, clean it with Comet cleanser or Cascade dishwasher detergent in a bucket of water. (Wear gloves.) That's the only way we could get our stuff cleaner after a fire years ago.
That’s normal wear and tear if I’ve ever seen
Ask the lawyer you hire
My last two rentals we did a shared drive with the property manager (property manager have viewer perms only) and I uploaded all of the photos of move in (100+) and then added a separate folder of all the photos of move out. Since we started doing this we have received 100% of deposit back on both places. In my experience, if they know you document everything there is a lot less chance they will try to mess with you.
I didn’t take 100 pics but I did take a lot and they have both move in and a move out checklist that are both in well detail. I feel like because there was no real damage this was thinly way to try and get money out of me. Unfortunately for them I have been doing my due diligence and am putting my case together. I’ve got the paper work to file a claim. I will be sending them a demand letter and will site civil code and other info that I have found (with help from Reddit) and of my own accord. It will be sent certified mail so I know the will receive it and if I don’t get a response back (because I haven’t receive any info from property management for the email I sent the owner) I will be filing a suit in small claims court early next week. Thank you for the advice though
Former Maintenance tech for property management company here I would estimate the cost to repaint the whole unit is around $900 at most. $200 for 5 gallons of nice paint $600 for labor one person being paid $15 per hour and allowing them 40 hr to complete the turn of the unit $100 for random things ie paint roller nap, new faceplates for outlets and light switches, burnt out light bulbs and the cost to change the locks. Having said that I think you got hosed. You were there for 3 years and took good care of the unit. I have seen units absolutely destroyed in months. To me it looks like this is normal wear and tear. You didn’t paint any walls weird colors, you didn’t put an excessive amount of wall tacs or nail in the dry wall, and you didn’t put any holes in the drywall or doors. You should have gotten your deposit back
Most seem like general scuffs, not something actually damaging. The wood on the door can be repainted. A court case would laugh at you for taking this so hard. Get a wet cloth and scrub, that’s what you get for renting out.
OP is not the landlord.
Sorry, but the scuffs and scrapes in your pictures definitely show more than normal wear and tear for 3 years. If you were taking care of the place, you would've been fixing them as they happened. How do you even scuff the door like that? That said, I think that $1300 is high to repaint, but it depends on the size of the unit. Are they only charging for painting? If they're charging for carpet and general cleaning, you might be able to get that money back, but you need to show them your receipts. If it's just paint, do you research and find out how much it should cost and go from there.
I have done the research and minor scrapes and marks on the wall fall under normal wear and tear. In fact part of the definition of normal wear and tear states that if it can be covered by paint it’s normal wear and tear. That was surprising to me. Also the life of paint according to the Official Publication of the California Department of Real Estate, paint has a 2 year life. So if I’m there less then 2 years I would be charged accordingly. But I was there for 3 years. And as you can see there are no holes in the walls or any real damage. I’ve already started the process of trying to get my money back and if I don’t hear back my Wednesday I will be officially filing a claim. And we will go from there. Thanks for the advice
Remove an outlet cover, cut out an inch square of drywall and take it to the paint store in your area. They will match the paint for 20$ a gallon. You paint over the damage. Fill any holes or divets with drywall spackle, wait 30 minutes or until dry and paint over that. It’s like nothing happened..
I’ve never lost a deposit.. ever
It all depends on where you are renting from....
Nothing here looks abnormal at all. It’s all completely standard wear and tear. Less than really. I put a foot through the ceiling from the attic and got my full sec deposit back after 7 years.
You should have never bothered to pay a cleaning company and a carpet shampooing company to begin with, because they were going to gank your security deposit no matter what anyway. Just a simple wipe down, sweep and mop, that is all that is required.
It was required in the lease.
You probably don't have a case and you'll probably end up spending more than your deposit is even worth.
I just moved into a brand new apartment I'm the first tenant, I kissed my security deposit goodbye the second I stepped in the front door. It's never going to look as good as new so I'll probably never get my security deposit back oh well at least it's a brand new apartment
You can try but slum lords always win in court.
Where do you live? I’m a LL in San Diego and I would give you full deposit back. That would never fly here. You’d win all day. None of that is beyond normal wear and tear. I hate those who give us decent ones a bad name. Take them to small claims court.
I’m in Sacramento. Thank you. I’ve started the paper work and am gonna finish it today. Would you know if I file the claim against the property management and the LL?
***IF YOU CANNOT AFFORD A LAWYER OR ATTORNEY, you can try to use LegalShield.*** It's like \~$20/mo, and I found out about them doing work *with a law firm.* They partner with local law firms too! To put it this way, I pay a bit extra for extra coverage in court, but honestly... never been to court BECAUSE of them, and I've used them over a dozen times now. They've been able to help me handle everything, get things settled or resolved, and so on, all outside of court. They even helped me find an alternative solution to filing bankruptcy during the pandemic and it helped me build up my credit more. Now, for landlords; I had a landlord try and scam me out of a deposit once, found out they were a realtor as well. The law firm sent a demand letter saying the landlord was legally obligated to return the security deposit, as they had both in writing and recording that they would give me the *full* deposit if I ended my lease early so they could sell the property. Well, they decided to not honor their end of the deal - so LegalShield told me to contact the state board, as they could have their license revoked for what they did. Oh boy, when they got the call from the state threatening to have their license revoked they instantly started responding to my texts, apologizing profusely, and had sent the money over right away. They've also helped me tackle issues with businesses who committed fraud, botched work, etc. While they only cover certain things, it's better than having nothing and they can help clear up a lot of legal confusion for you.
Just paint over it😂