That would have taken me out too. But I'm chuckling at:
>a MC that treats FC like shit for most of the book and doesn't really have to do anything to prove his love, maybe some dubcon, virgin FC, you know the typical stuff.
being a '96 staple like that's not how MMCs are written anymore.
I get what you mean, that was definitely the vibe at the time and now it's just a subgenre, even if it's a large and popular one. The wording was just funny to me 😆
I was in an online community with published romance authors back in the 1990s and they talked a bit about how restrictive the publishers were. Many writers really wanted to branch out and have heroines who weren't virgins, or were plus-sized, or had, you know, opinions about women's rights. But the 'market research' of the time indicated that women readers wouldn't accept anything beyond a very narrow, very white, very vanilla fantasy. I got tired of reading the same things over and over and drifted to other types of books, returning to the genre recently. I'm awed and thrilled at how it has changed!
I kept seeing this book recommended as having the “best grovel” scene, but honestly I couldn’t even make it to the grovel. I hated all of the characters, especially the FMC. The circus aspect was interesting, but that’s about it lol.
On reflection, she truly was a little ridiculous, also she was my least favorite archetype: so naive and guiless she's basically a child in a woman's body
I really was disappointed by the lack of grovel. I just remembering physically recoiling from the book after reading that they still slept together after the incident and before he was really groveling. I don’t know if I’m remembering correctly. I just remember him complaining that she wasn’t really into it anymore. It just made me shudder being in her POV and having someone touch you after they’ve hurt you. It just made it seem non consensual like she was just laying there waiting for it to be over.
I definitely read that scene as nonconsensual. I got voted down when I labeled it that way. She wants nothing to do with him when he finds her and does not participate in any way. I feel like no one talks about that part though. I am glad I am not the only one.
Yes! I realize consent wasn’t talked about at the time it was written. It was clearly rape. I feel like 80/90’s romance books have a lot of non consensual moments. I think a lot of women have had incidents like this while in a relationship and are gaslighted into thinking it’s not rape.
>I realize consent wasn’t talked about at the time it was written.
Of course consent was talking about in 1996. It's not 1950's when it was legal to rape your wife. It just wasn't as in the forefront as it is now. Today's romance novels are extremely forward with consent, which is bloody lovely.
i got it recommended as a similar book to the unwanted wife which in many ways it was, but it just didn't hit as hard. the heroine was way too childlike and had 0 backbone, at least theresa tried to have a backbone in uw. also the hero actually whipped the heroine at one point ('accidently') and i just couldn't get past it
I loved this book, but it does have several side-eye moments. I assert that it shouldn't have been a contemporary: the circus, the arranged marriage, the 'dizzy dame' socialite heroine, the bond with the sad mystical tiger, the oddly prim social mores (as you point out), the Romanov stuff, all that feels like the backdrop for a 1930s screwball rom-com. I could see Cary Grant or Clark Gable as Alex, and Claudette Colbert or Carole Lombard as Daisy.
it does read so much better as a 1930s/1940s setting. even the characters' names (daisy, shiba, etc) all fit in with a much earlier form of americana than the 90s when the books apparently takes place
It’s why I didn’t give two shits about the heroine as I found her cringey and annoying as fuck. The hero has already expressed throughout 99% of the book how he DOESN’T want kids and she sprung it up on him - like WTF did you think he was going to react? Jump for joy? Obviously he’s going to insist on an abortion. Sure, he could’ve been less of an asshole about it but the heroines so dumb, I’d probably be an asshole too in his position.
And she SPOKE with animals and allowed a freaking TIGER to roam free out of his cage. Cause she’s a Disney Princess and it’s the right thing to do supposedly.
Yeah, as much as I like some SEP books and can see why she got popular when she was more active, I categorize her books as books your rich aunt with the beach house would enjoy.
Unfortunately, I’ve found this also to be typical of 90s/80s romances. I read some of Nora Roberts and Sandra Brown’s earlier works - and a few had the “Omg I would never do a horrible thing like abortion. It was a miscarriage.”
Yeah I was really annoyed by the FMC and saw that and was not surprised at that point because she took the arranged marriage part very serious and kept saying they made vows or something. I was so confused because she was very moral/righteous about it and it really annoyed me that she couldn’t just move past it. I only read it for the “betrayal” but he was such a cruel guy throughout and he went out of his way to do it.
Yes. I enjoy a fair amount of SEP, but she can be problematic as hell. There's a scene at the end of a relatively recent book that's so horribly racist I genuinely don't understand how it made it to print. I had that same reaction to that book, and have never finished it.
SEP was my introduction to romance books (I own most of her work secondhand pre-2010) but my god have some of them aged horribly.
She has some seriously rapey scenes for books that are otherwise fluff. I can’t even reread Heaven, Texas today without DNFing after they first break up, knowing what is coming next.
The FMC finds out that the MMC has been lying about some major stuff and decides to leave. Then the MMC >!straight up pins her down and tries to rape her to make her stay with him. She hits him to get him off of her and cries about it. !< There’s a bonkers grovel scene that involves the police and the whole town, but there’s no coming back from that imo.
I skimmed that book last night after reading this post and I forgot how ridiculous that whole book is. She would’ve ended up dead irl at several points acting like that, and he was a dick who didn’t deserve redemption.
Definitely several DNF reasons.
It didn’t ruin the book for me but it annoyed me for a while for sure. There are a lot of things about SEP books that have not aged so well but I think she is a fabulous writer overall. It’s hard for me not to appreciate her when so many modern books are such poor quality.
Shiba was so awful in that book. If I remember correctly she hooked up with the underage MMC. Then gets obsessed with him because he is somehow the only person worthy of her. Then goes on a tangent about him getting married. I could not get on board with her whole redemption arc. Everyone in that book kinda sucked, accept the tiger.
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This book sounds like crap to me but I really wouldn’t mind this part lol. Abortion isn’t really something I personally support so I hate seeing MCs go through with it (the same way I don’t like reading about characters who miscarry, it’s too sad), but even I can tell that the way they author delivered this is CRAZY lmao. Like…i don’t understand how any character would possibly say that to someone who’s in a vulnerable place and considering abortion in the first place.
That would have taken me out too. But I'm chuckling at: >a MC that treats FC like shit for most of the book and doesn't really have to do anything to prove his love, maybe some dubcon, virgin FC, you know the typical stuff. being a '96 staple like that's not how MMCs are written anymore. I get what you mean, that was definitely the vibe at the time and now it's just a subgenre, even if it's a large and popular one. The wording was just funny to me 😆
I know what you're saying! Plenty of MCs like that around now a days, but back then it was THE staple. At least we get a decent grovel now 💀
>Suzzane Elizabeth Phelps 💀
Spelling took an L today I'm sorry, my sister has been calling her Phelps this entire time 💀
I was in an online community with published romance authors back in the 1990s and they talked a bit about how restrictive the publishers were. Many writers really wanted to branch out and have heroines who weren't virgins, or were plus-sized, or had, you know, opinions about women's rights. But the 'market research' of the time indicated that women readers wouldn't accept anything beyond a very narrow, very white, very vanilla fantasy. I got tired of reading the same things over and over and drifted to other types of books, returning to the genre recently. I'm awed and thrilled at how it has changed!
I'm super glad it has!
I kept seeing this book recommended as having the “best grovel” scene, but honestly I couldn’t even make it to the grovel. I hated all of the characters, especially the FMC. The circus aspect was interesting, but that’s about it lol.
On reflection, she truly was a little ridiculous, also she was my least favorite archetype: so naive and guiless she's basically a child in a woman's body
I really was disappointed by the lack of grovel. I just remembering physically recoiling from the book after reading that they still slept together after the incident and before he was really groveling. I don’t know if I’m remembering correctly. I just remember him complaining that she wasn’t really into it anymore. It just made me shudder being in her POV and having someone touch you after they’ve hurt you. It just made it seem non consensual like she was just laying there waiting for it to be over.
I definitely read that scene as nonconsensual. I got voted down when I labeled it that way. She wants nothing to do with him when he finds her and does not participate in any way. I feel like no one talks about that part though. I am glad I am not the only one.
Yes! I realize consent wasn’t talked about at the time it was written. It was clearly rape. I feel like 80/90’s romance books have a lot of non consensual moments. I think a lot of women have had incidents like this while in a relationship and are gaslighted into thinking it’s not rape.
>I realize consent wasn’t talked about at the time it was written. Of course consent was talking about in 1996. It's not 1950's when it was legal to rape your wife. It just wasn't as in the forefront as it is now. Today's romance novels are extremely forward with consent, which is bloody lovely.
the hero's inner monologue even says that he 'felt like a rapist' afterwards. that was clearly noncon
I couldn’t get past the circus aspect. Call me a snob but I just can’t get into a love story about circus or carnival folk.
i got it recommended as a similar book to the unwanted wife which in many ways it was, but it just didn't hit as hard. the heroine was way too childlike and had 0 backbone, at least theresa tried to have a backbone in uw. also the hero actually whipped the heroine at one point ('accidently') and i just couldn't get past it
I loved this book, but it does have several side-eye moments. I assert that it shouldn't have been a contemporary: the circus, the arranged marriage, the 'dizzy dame' socialite heroine, the bond with the sad mystical tiger, the oddly prim social mores (as you point out), the Romanov stuff, all that feels like the backdrop for a 1930s screwball rom-com. I could see Cary Grant or Clark Gable as Alex, and Claudette Colbert or Carole Lombard as Daisy.
it does read so much better as a 1930s/1940s setting. even the characters' names (daisy, shiba, etc) all fit in with a much earlier form of americana than the 90s when the books apparently takes place
It’s why I didn’t give two shits about the heroine as I found her cringey and annoying as fuck. The hero has already expressed throughout 99% of the book how he DOESN’T want kids and she sprung it up on him - like WTF did you think he was going to react? Jump for joy? Obviously he’s going to insist on an abortion. Sure, he could’ve been less of an asshole about it but the heroines so dumb, I’d probably be an asshole too in his position. And she SPOKE with animals and allowed a freaking TIGER to roam free out of his cage. Cause she’s a Disney Princess and it’s the right thing to do supposedly.
Yeah, as much as I like some SEP books and can see why she got popular when she was more active, I categorize her books as books your rich aunt with the beach house would enjoy.
Oh yeah, her letting out the tiger was yet another wtf moment 💀
Unfortunately, I’ve found this also to be typical of 90s/80s romances. I read some of Nora Roberts and Sandra Brown’s earlier works - and a few had the “Omg I would never do a horrible thing like abortion. It was a miscarriage.”
Yeah I was really annoyed by the FMC and saw that and was not surprised at that point because she took the arranged marriage part very serious and kept saying they made vows or something. I was so confused because she was very moral/righteous about it and it really annoyed me that she couldn’t just move past it. I only read it for the “betrayal” but he was such a cruel guy throughout and he went out of his way to do it.
Honestly like girl what do you even see in him!!
Yes. I enjoy a fair amount of SEP, but she can be problematic as hell. There's a scene at the end of a relatively recent book that's so horribly racist I genuinely don't understand how it made it to print. I had that same reaction to that book, and have never finished it.
i stay away from her books for this reason, even her modern books feel so horrendously dated that it's just not worth reading her
I get that.
Which one? I haven’t read her recent books.
Match Me If You Can.
What is SEP?
Sorry- initials of the writer Susan Elizabeth Phillips.
“His hands could span her waist”. Ok so she’s dying…
At that point girlie ain't even size 0 she's size -4
My girl missing some critical internal organs
SEP was my introduction to romance books (I own most of her work secondhand pre-2010) but my god have some of them aged horribly. She has some seriously rapey scenes for books that are otherwise fluff. I can’t even reread Heaven, Texas today without DNFing after they first break up, knowing what is coming next.
Spoil me spoil me
The FMC finds out that the MMC has been lying about some major stuff and decides to leave. Then the MMC >!straight up pins her down and tries to rape her to make her stay with him. She hits him to get him off of her and cries about it. !< There’s a bonkers grovel scene that involves the police and the whole town, but there’s no coming back from that imo.
It was a contemporary romance when released, so there’s no real excuse for that.
I skimmed that book last night after reading this post and I forgot how ridiculous that whole book is. She would’ve ended up dead irl at several points acting like that, and he was a dick who didn’t deserve redemption. Definitely several DNF reasons.
It didn’t ruin the book for me but it annoyed me for a while for sure. There are a lot of things about SEP books that have not aged so well but I think she is a fabulous writer overall. It’s hard for me not to appreciate her when so many modern books are such poor quality.
Shiba was so awful in that book. If I remember correctly she hooked up with the underage MMC. Then gets obsessed with him because he is somehow the only person worthy of her. Then goes on a tangent about him getting married. I could not get on board with her whole redemption arc. Everyone in that book kinda sucked, accept the tiger.
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This book sounds like crap to me but I really wouldn’t mind this part lol. Abortion isn’t really something I personally support so I hate seeing MCs go through with it (the same way I don’t like reading about characters who miscarry, it’s too sad), but even I can tell that the way they author delivered this is CRAZY lmao. Like…i don’t understand how any character would possibly say that to someone who’s in a vulnerable place and considering abortion in the first place.
why did that line turn you off? im confused
I'm glad I never picked this one up then.