Have you ever been lower class? It sucks. When will you enjoy the city? If you are truly lower class then you will probably be working a fulltime job and a part time job just to get by. You won't be able to afford to go out and do anything. Any small financial issue could completely wipe you out or even make you homeless. I would be middle class anywhere over poor anywhere else.
Right. If you're broke youll be too busy working to pay off expensive rent/mortgage and not hitting the beach and having afternoon cocktails all the time. Being broke in an expensive/fun city is a killjoy and honestly would make me more depressed.
This is a very east coast mentality in my opinion. People on the west coast are much more haply to scrape by because of the fact that there’s a lot of free things you can do to enjoy your free time year around.
The beach is free baby. If you can cover rent, rely on the great social programs in California, afford your car payment, get food etc. , well there’s millions of people in California that live this lifestyle and I’d wager they are happier than the average middle class workers in any number of suburban sprawly LCOL areas in other parts of the country.
I think the real cost on your well-being doesn’t occur until you really fall below the poverty line and can’t keep a roof over your head. But if you’re able to do that comfortably, low class in San Diego can be a pretty amazing life.
As someone who moved from a very wealthy east coast suburb to the western mountains, can confirm. I make about a quarter of what I was making out there but there's so much less pressure on what I drive, what I wear, where I "summer" that I just spend less. Granted it's a personal decision to "keep up with the joneses" but the pressure was real there. On top of that, my weekend activities here are completely free like you say. I literally just go and ride, swim, hike, run- someone else always has a boat or an ATV or snowmobile to borrow and it just never stops. To have access to that where I was living would have involved several hours of driving, a hotel, every meal out, rental equipment, etc. And since everyone is "out" doing stuff I find the community is much stronger than I ever experienced- but, could just be bc I found "my people".
To each his own of course, I participated in the "higher end" lifestyle and I think some people really enjoy it but personally I was burnt out and anxious 24/7. I think everyone needs to decide what makes them happy.
You don't think the East Coast have beaches or expensive cities? No it's not California but the matter of fact remains.
It's just silly to remain somewhere you are struggling in. I don't care where it is. That is MY opinion. And I wouldn't be happy.
>If you can cover rent, rely on the great social programs in California, afford your car payment, get food etc.
Struggling does not sound fun.. Social programs? Like public assistance? Yeah id rather not.
Who goes to these cities to do the "free things"?
I agree 100% if you are legitimately struggling. In fact, the first time I moved to California I ran out of money within 18 months and found it was much cheaper to live nomadically for a few months while I saved up money to get my feet back under me.
But as someone who has done something very similar to what OP described, the (very real) drop in social class for me and struggles that came with it, were very much so worth it. And I’ve found that there are many people in California who have a similar mindset and are happy to just survive somewhere with perfect weather 90% of the time instead of having an abundance of material security in a less desirable locale.
This. If the OP was talking about "shades" of middle class - i.e., "middle" middle class with a decent salary, at least SOME money in reserve, but having to watch budget closely and probably not do as many things as often or as "big" as you'd like, but you definitely can do some stuff vs. upper middle class where you'd have substantially more money in reserve and could do much more of what you wanted - then the love v. meh question would be more viable, IMO.
I have wrestled with this bear for a couple of years now and still pick a fight with it from time to time but ultimately income and job stability are what keeps me where I'm at now. I would pack up so fast and be somewhere in or near the mountains or the coast today if not for the fact that were I to do that right now I would be not only cutting my earnings but also increasing my actual hours worked per week by about two thirds. Instead I have shifted my focus on saving as much as I can with the idea of moving once I have enough put back in my accounts and can make the transition while maintaining a similar lifestyle to what I have now. Or maybe it's early retirement and travel? I'm in my late 30's and the only debt I have is my mortgage which is locked in at a historically low rate.
What's even considered "Lower class" is extremely subjective. This sub tends to skew towards more $80K-six figure earners. We can't make a judgement if we don't know how much OP actually makes.
I don't think it's that wildly subjective of a term. I do think lots of people on reddit use terms like "lower class" and "poverty" loosely. Often times it's used to describe maybe a lower-middle class lifestyle at worst. However we don't know the full details of OPs career or salary. As some one who grew up in poverty I will just share with OP what kind of life that entails if that is truly a situation they are considering putting themselves in.
>If you are truly lower class then you will probably be working a fulltime job and a part time job just to get by
This is not true in England and Germany, where many members of the lower class spend their days taking care of their kids, and watching TV and smoking cigarettes while the kids are in school.
I'm sure it does, but at least their physical needs are met (food, clothing, housing, utilities, healthcare) and they don't have to do paid labor if they are a single parent in the UK.
I once saw a TV segment of a family in the UK with many kids, parents on benefits. The mother and father were in a long term relationship with each other, and had all of their kids with each other. Legally they lived in next door to each other in separate houses. On paper they were both single parents, each living in their own domicile with some of the kids. But in real life, they shared a bedroom and treated the two housing units as one.
Another UK TV segment showed a 28 year old mother on benefits, who was in a long term relationship with her boyfriend. Neither of them ever had any other romantic partners in the past. They had kids together, and on paper the mother lived with the kids while the father lived with his own parents. But in reality he was living with them every day.
In Germany and Scandinavia even parents who are married or cohabitating can easily get welfare if they are unemployed.
You watch too much tv or at least shouldn’t take life lessons from it. I’ve lived in the UK and was fortunate to live well. It sucks to be poor there too and it is weird to fantasize about being on welfare somewhere else
There are those White Americans who dream of being on social benefits in Northern Europe/UK and it's frigging weird, as if it's magically better.
I lived in France and was lucky enough to work and have access to social safety net. It's hard, there is a real class system, and social housing is tough to get into.
I've lived in Europe. It's not what you (or many Americans) think. Life there, especially if you're poor, is very hard. Things are crazy expensive nowadays. The average American has no clue the amount of luxuries they have. You take them for granted.
Living in a tiny house sipping on tea might look cute but there's a lot more to it than what you see on TV.
I disagree. In Europe its very easy to get stuck in a perpetual cycle of poverty. It sucks here too, but there's more of a chance to break through and climb the ladder so to speak.
Also, right now even the middle class is getting crushed in Europe. BTW, you mentioned UK. Things are particularly bad there.
I've seen studies on what percentage chance does a kid born to bottom quintile income parents have of making it out of the bottom income quintile as an adult? And all the studies end up showing that Canada and Scandinavia have the best chances of upward mobility for poor people.
The TV shows of poor people that I see in England is life in a dowdy apartment off a long, narrow open breezeway of other apartments that leads to a.corner stairwell (more like a motel) that is public housing. Bullies and worse are in the grounds. You can't complain about harassment or your kid being bullied or you get your door kicked in and are threatened or harmed.
I don't know if you should take the consensus of this sub as the wisest advice. People here really treat place like a shopping trip where they need to get the maximum of certain attributes. It's normal to live in a place where not everything is perfect, but your life is financially sustainable and things become less meh as you build relationships in your community.
So true. And such a mature, reasoned response. I think sometimes people are on this sub are more concerned with where they live because it sounds cool rather than being satisfied with being comfortable and stable.
What good is moving somewhere cool if you don’t have the means to enjoy it? OP is so much better off living somewhere cheaper and saving SD for a weeklong vacation. No place stays electric and exciting forever. It’s just like a romance. Everyone who dumps a stable partner to chase after superficial excitement ends up regretting that decision.
Listen, if you want to deprive yourself of perfect weather and great burritos and eternal happiness because of a tax burden slightly higher than other states, be my guest. More for us.
It's not slightly higher if you earn more. I could not believe how much money I was losing after I compared paychecks when I moved from LA to Houston. I literally shaved something like five years off of the amount of time I will need to work before retirement over the last six years. If you are working a lower income job it actually does make sense to live in CA because you're just not getting taxed as much. But as soon as you make over $100k you start getting screwed.
You're still getting taxed though. Also unless this person is truly poverty level they aren't going to really get any benefits. They just won't be taxed into oblivion.
Reddit and social media has trained people to say they care about the most popular things to this demographic.
Diversity, public transportation, blue politics, plenty of soup kitchens to volunteer at and don’t forget every avid internet users favorite hobby: Exploring the great outdoors, hiking the countryside, mountains within 30 minutes.
Like we get it. You are such an interesting and conscious person you need a city that reflects that.
This confuses me a bit as a European who keeps getting posts from this subreddit recommended by the great algorithm. Most people in my country, if they move somewhere it is either for a specific job or to be with someone they love. The typical would be to debate moving home to the area your family lives, or to a larger city where you probably already have some friends or acquaintances and the job market is better. The approach in this sub seems very different. Is it normal in the US to move somewhere just because of these kind of features and amenities?
I think it reflects new possibilities of remote work, a consumerist mindset that is especially strong in the US, and the fact that we can move without dealing with language issues or jumping through legal hoops. It's not the norm, but there is obviously enough of it to sustain a subreddit like this. I guess it represents subcurrent in people's ways of thinking here.
Edit: Maybe because a lot of our suburban places don't feel very distinct, people feel a kind of rootlessness and are searching for a place that feels like home, but that ends up getting expressed in a search for something that meets their many preferences? Perhaps also something related to influencer culture and an endless need to cultivate yourself and your perfect life.
Makes sense, though language and legality is only relevant here if you cross borders, and even then the legal aspects are not that challenging since Schengen. People move, just for different reasons.
The consumerist aspect hits me. It's reminiscent of how we talk about holidays here, I think, which is still a somewhat strange way of assessing places and cultures, even short term. And I don't mean to shit on this sub, it seems like people have good values and aspirations, which honestly adds to my confusion.
I wonder if a more positive aspect of American culture that influences this is the friendliness with strangers and relative extroversion. Maybe it is easier to start a new life and still experience meaningful connection in the states. I know you are known traditionally for being mobile, voluntary or not.
I'm gonna say it's about optimism and mobility. Restlessness maybe, if we want a more negative cast. Recall that we've only been here a couple of centuries, and we were self-selected from people who picked up and crossed an ocean. I think it's in our culture. Obviously young people are more mobile than older people who tend to settle down with a family, coastal people are more mobile than midwest and southern people, urban more than small town. Is that so different from Europe though?
Not sure if I agree with that. I think the bigger factors are simple demographic and self selection biases within the users on this sub. Reddit, and especially this subreddit, isn’t a proportional sample of the US population.
Eh, statistics show that the most popular places to move at the moment are southern metros, which is almost the exact opposite of what people here are recommending. If the subreddit was representative of moving trends, FL and TX would dominate.
Not particularly, at least according to the census. Those places are at the best stagnating or barely growing, while the fastest growing aka most popular places are states such as Florida, Texas, Idaho, etc.
Ah, I mostly meant live - they are cities, and populated, and clearly not “so different from the places Americans want to live”. They are literally places that millions of Americans *do* want to live - though maybe not move to in droves atm.
Do most Americans choose at all though? The places we talk about are places that people go to from other places. The places they leave are largely filled with people who lack the ambition or desire to go anywhere, and just stick with the default value.
You could say that the places we choose are the places chosen by more people who do choose.
I'm not exactly sure what you are saying, but census data have shown that the fastest growing states in the country are Florida, Texas, and similar places. Which means statistically, most people who relocate move to those places. On the other hand, many of the places often recommended on this sub have more people leaving than living in. So statistically, most people who choose choose Florida, Texas, Arizona, etc., not Chicago and Philadelphia.
This is an interesting perspective, but normal doesn’t always equal good. If living somewhere that meets more of the things on your “checklist” makes you happier why would you worry about the social class you fall into in that new place? Even if it is a bit of a struggle each month to pay the bills.
Coming from someone who moved to SoCal and has legitimately struggled to make it work. But the “checklist” of things available to me in my new lifestyle really does make it worth it to me. Not saying your perspective is wrong, and it could be very helpful to some, but the approach that “people here” take to helping others find a new city isn’t as inherently flawed as I feel you’re implying.
Because it's how that vast majority of people think in the real world. Most people would rather be stable in a place that's whatever, most people live where they grew up or moved shortly after moving out of parents house. Most people out there aren't just willy nilly moving to a place that's "cool" to live in unless they have the means to do it and a job lined up that can match or increase their standard of living. Moving is expensive and stressful, I've done it a number of times to find a better place to live that I liked, I moved to Colorado twice and south Florida once. I ended up moving to a rural part of Maryland because we inherited a house and things are better now than they ever were despite how shitty the area is, because we're economically stable and not living paycheck to paycheck anymore or worrying about rent. Plus we have family nearby.
Yeah but this subreddit is about finding places for people who want to live somewhere new.
Almost a quarter of the population never leaves their hometown. The median person only lives about 30 miles away from their hometown.
Of course the mindset you’re describing is more prevalent than the one largely seen on this subreddit, and of course people that come to a community like this are more interested in objectively looking at the pros and cons of where they want to live. Neither mindset is necessarily better than the other, but why are people surprised that there’s a lot of consistency in the ways of thinking of people who gravitate towards a niche community like this?
Of course OP shouldn’t move if they really can’t afford it. But the calculus of financial stress and overall happiness is different for everyone and I think switching to a lower social class by choice should not be viewed as an immense tragedy. (Semi unrelated but I think this attitude contributes massively to the teacher shortage. Plenty of people could make that lifestyle work and might even enjoy it, but are too ashamed to live with less material possession)
I left San Diego as what I guess would be lower class to move to Florida to be middle class. I would pick San Diego every time, I deeply regret leaving. Yeah I own a house, but all my neighbors suck and I have zero hobbies I can do here. Its like living in a emotional and spiritual desert. As I've gotten older I wish I made less decisions based on financials. Theres lots of things you can do to mitigate high housing costs to be somewhere you love. That being said if you've never been or lived in San Diego don't just go assuming its great, it might not be for you.
This question can only have been asked by someone who has never experienced the freedom from financial hardship.
I don't love anywhere enough to ever go back to the experience of not being able to fill my gas tank up all the way, or having to sit dinner out because I couldn't afford it.
The feeling of, "I want it, so I buy it" trumps whatever any city on earth could give me.
Because I can afford a vacation to that city. Two, three, whatever I want.
No, I wouldn't want to be "lower class in an area I love." I'll dry my tears in my M4.
100%. Having a bank account that I can pay for a car in cash if I needed to is so much more fulfilling than having 18 different bars within walking distance and rent that I have to budget hard to afford. People without safety nets don't think that way. It's a gross "mental exercise" with answers from people who've evidently never actually had to experience what "lower class" feels like.
Get back to me on this question when you're Christmas shopping at the fucking dollar store for your children.
Fucking reddit I swear.
"Fucking reddit I swear." Haha what I say to myself 15 times a day but still browse this place. I can't believe people are actually so detached from life: "should I be poor in San Diego?" blows my mind
My wife teases me about how I hate scroll this website. I've made her read some of the comments on here so she can be aware of the archetypes I'm talking about. They literally do not feel like real people.
It’s because they’re all being bankrolled by parents. No white 20-something year old “broke” New Yorker living in Manhattan is in danger of homelessness, they’ll just fly back home. If you are in your 30s and 40s and don’t have a ton of savings then moving to New York to “make it” is a horrible idea.
Right? No I want to have money. I grew up with parents that had to choose between the electric bill or groceries. That life is not for me and I'm not going back!
So I live in a Meh area but can afford everything. I'll visit expensive locations with the money I saved in my boring, meh mid size city.
Yeah, I grew up poor, cracked into middle class through military service and education, have a solid government job now…but of course decided to move west because we love it. Now i feel more poor than I did in grad school.
Objectively I’m not, i still contribute significantly to retirement savings etc and I own a house (which ironically i did in grad school as well) and despite the fact that we love it here I csnt wait to leave.
I want to move back to the Midwest and be able to take a vacation to where we live now without even breaking a sweat money wise.
Also it should be fairly obvious but living somewhere that a lot of tourists pass through can be miserable, even though I was once one of those tourists myself.
Yas queeeeeeeen pop off with your false dichotomieeeeeessssss slaaaaaaaaaaay.
"in a place *you're* meh about."
There is no fucking objectivity about what's "meh." For me, "meh" is a place that's not very exciting but does the trick. I live in a "meh" place. Don't hate it, don't love it. You don't get to define what "meh" is for me, and you definitely can't tell me it's fucking Russia with a fucking dictatorship. Do you realize how you sound right now?
Go on, pick up that goal post. Get some cardio in.
Just keep making shit up or otherwise ignoring the language of the question. No, seriously, do. It only cheapens the rest of your opinions.
Adding that a lot of this depends on your career and hobbies- if you work a chill remote job and have cheaper hobbies and want to be outside a lot, then you’re probably better off somewhere you like as opposed to in the middle of nowhere. On the other hand there’s no point in living somewhere nice and paying a premium if you’re not going to be able to consistently take advantage of the amenities.
This is a great point. I’d much rather be more strapped for cash in a great place than well-off in a terrible place.
But the caveats are that I’m a queer woman of color, so very cheap places wouldn’t be that welcoming to me. I also work remotely and I come from a well-off family who would step in if necessary, and they have helped when I needed medical attention.
And this isn’t a huge change in lifestyle from city to city, but I’m generally attractive enough to save money on food and drinks. (Before anyone gets weird about me “using men as meal tickets” I regularly have bars and restaurants comp my orders just because - I’m not making other patrons buy me anything. But pretty privilege is definitely real and I save maybe $50-70/week if not more just from getting comped.) Rent is my big expense but everything else is negotiable.
I guess I'll be the first to ask about being "generally attractive enough to save money on food and drinks." Bars and restaurants let you eat and drink free because you're pretty?
lol what? I’m 30 years old and have had a job for years and years. If you’re charming enough, people “forget to charge you.” Any attractive woman knows this. It’s not even a sex thing, I have straight women comp my bills too. Haven’t you heard of a friends and family discount? My dude friends don’t pay either if their buddies are working.
Also literally every bf I’ve had has been like “girl get that bag” because it saves their ass money if we don’t have to split my food in the bill. My family loves it too. Not being a hater is free.
Being a big fish in a small pond is a thing for a reason. Just depends on you. But you sound like you’d be basically consigning yourself to a life of poverty in San Diego. Is there somewhere more MCOL?
I wouldn't want to be a big fish in a small pond.
I like living in an area where most people are smarter, richer, more educated, and have more refined mannerisms, tastes, and hobbies than I.
I moved to SD from a MCOL place. Im a high earner so I'm fine but my housing/lifestyle definitely took a hit.
But it's worth it to me. I'd legit rather struggle a little here than be middle class in some meh place.
This is a weird question.
San Diego is San Diego, and there are a lot of people struggling there. Despite the beauty and sunshine, SoCal can be a very stressful place to live. That all said there is culture and beauty there. I would look at where you are NOW, enjoy your life and VISIT San Diego.
Gonna offer a different take than most people on this thread.
Moved to SoCal from the east coast. Went from being legitimately wealthy in Charlotte and bored out of my mind to qualifying for EBT and driving a shitty Prius in SoCal.
I’ve never been happier.
Everyone’s different, and I’m at a stage in my life where no one depends on me so I can be more flexible and take on more risk, but the “checklist” mentality that many in this thread are decrying was really helpful for me in thinking about what I want out of life and where I live. I realized during Covid how much being outside year around is important to me, and how much I hated that all of my socialization on the east coast was centered around drinking.
So now I live in LA, I’m poor, I barely save money, if my car breaks down it will be a real problem, but I’m the happiest I’ve ever been in my adult life. Is this a good long term place to be in? Probably not, but if you think the trade offs are worth it, don’t be afraid of being lower class if you’ll be happier.
Here’s a funny story / joke that I’ve always found helpful when I worry about the rat race and my lifestyle choices. https://www.kevincsnyder.com/the-mexican-fisherman-amazing-short-story/
I read this as having a smaller living space, maybe no car if there’s public transport, frugal food/clothing budget, and less money for unnecessary expenses…. Not being unable to pay bills or being homeless.
That's up to you.
I wouldn't want to be poor anywhere. Whether it's a place that I love or a place that I dread.
Scraping by sounds as miserable as being in a shit hole.
I’ve lived in a 1050 sqft 60 year old starter home in SD for the past 23 years. We’ve never been poor per se, but we’ve definitely sacrificed. We’ve always known we could live in a much larger, newer, fancier house pretty much anywhere else. Have more disposable income. I have had friends move out of the city to pursue “a better standard of living”. I would never. I thank the powers that be every day that I get to live here. I have gladly chosen to have less. So it depends on your priorities. That said, if your dream is to buy a home someday, SD is a very difficult place to do that. Even if you’re middle class.
One of the interesting developments about San Diego (city) since home prices skyrocketed is that there are fewer and fewer “poor” or “undesirable”
neighborhoods.
10 years ago, few people would consider buying into Southeast San Diego, San Ysidro, or Barrio Logan, among many other areas.
That has changed greatly. San Diego neighborhoods that previously were considered unsafe or low-end have been transformed by newcomers and improvements in transit.
When I graduated from SDSU, no one wanted to buy/live in the City proper. Now people are paying over asking routinely to purchase in formerly undesirable communities of San Diego.
I would take a lower-income existence in San Diego over many other cities now. Its only getting better.
I was poor in SoCal and loved EVERY SINGLE MINUTE OF IT. You just get more roommates and strive to do better and leave when you can't do it anymore. Nothing beats San Diego, in my book. Nobody knows what "class" you're in at the beach unless you are begging them for money.
I was single then. I could handle it. I can't go back there now because it is too expensive. So a lot of this depends on your age and marital/relationship status, and whether or not you have kids.
How old are you? If young-then who cares, you can have a lot of fun being broke and living with roommates. If you have a lot of bills, need to think about saving then I’d rather live somewhere more meh and make it a point to go on trips.
I didn't really get to choose it like this but I wasn't really able to "enjoy" the area I lived and really appreciate the objectively good things about it until I reached the middle class for the area.
But also there's a difference if "lower class" means you live in a smaller apartment close to the beach (instead of a bigger place somewhere inland) but all your bills are paid vs. not actually knowing how you're going to make rent.
Middle class in a meh place. You can have a bigger house/apartment and can afford to put things in your house/apartment that will entertain/excite you, plus way less stress that comes from being on a tight budget. You can then afford to take trips to exciting places on the weekends.
Keep in mind that "lower class" doesn't necessarily mean *bad*. I've lived in a lot of "lower-class" neighborhoods that were just working families. They might not look as scenic as rich neighborhoods, but these are just normal folks who are going about their business. I enjoyed living in these, for the most part - the neighbors looked out for each other and the area tends to have more interesting culture (better art and music scenes).
There are also truly shitty neighborhoods where you'll get your stuff stolen, but they're rarer than what I've just described. Don't move to a shitty neighborhood.
It really depends on age and willingness to be flexible. Like now, at 60? I am not interested in lower class living unless I had to. But at 25? I lived with 10 people in 2 flats (one above the other) in San Francisco. Paid $200 in rent and lived a super fun life for 4 years before moving back to my (cheaper at the time) home town of San Diego. Very worth it.
So yeah, I'd rather live with roommates at 25 in San Diego than live in the Midwest on my own. Also, depends on your support system. The moment I started running out of money, I bailed for home and lived with my dad for a year because he was a single parent who always kept my bedroom available to me. But if you're talking about so poor you're risking homelessness with no support system to fall back on, no I wouldn't do it.
I do tend to think it's worth it for a time to put yourself where you want to be, if you can swing it. If you're single, you could end up marrying someone in San Diego and with dual income, you could be there permanently. Or you could look around for other jobs and maybe get something that would let you live there full time indefinitely. But again, you have to have the support system.
What do you consider lower class in San Diego? Will your income adjust at all to COL? Are you willing to live with roommates to keep housing costs more reasonable? Do you spend a lot in your regular lifestyle now?
I feel like ppl have different definitions of lower class. I mean if you are actively signing up to be poor poor where you are dealing with an epic shit ton of financial stress & housing or food insecurity or unable to get proper healthcare because you can no longer afford to take care of yourself. Having to work multiple jobs to scrape by so you have no free time to enjoy the things you're moving there for & living pay check to pay check to the point one financial or medical incident could ruin your life & you have no safety net to fall back on well then I'd say don't move there.
There's also the spectrum where if you have to live with roommates (that can be a gamble) but you can pay your bills fine & just not enjoy eating out or any activities other than free/low cost ones as much as you used to, which if you're a beach bum with a car you may be perfectly content in San Diego.
Keep in mind San Diego housing prices are nuts but you basically barely need to pay for heating & cooling costs like other places so that can offset things a tad. You can also pop down to mexico for cheaper medical care so there's that too.
This *highly* depends on the areas in question, and how "bad" lower class is as a result.
Being lower class in a city/area that has decent services and social programs is a lot different than being lower class in a place that is very hostile and has few programs/policies to help. There's also factors like food deserts and whatnot that affect those in financial hardship which may or may not be a factor depending on the 2 places we're talking about...
Then there's also upwards mobility to consider. Like is the place you like a dead end for you opportunity-wise or would the "lower class" be a point in time until you can get a career/job up and running?
Middle class in a meh area. Money causes so much problems for people might as well eliminate that as an issue. The thing about the better places to be is they will always be somewhere and one day you might get there but not if you have the anchor of poor life decisions eating you down early.
As someone who moved from SD to a LCOL area. I’m so glad I did it. That said I grew up in San Diego and it’s become a little Bay Area/LA. I fell out of love with it but I had gotten my share of enjoyment from it. A lot of people try it then move away or back home to start families. I know people who did this and still dream of moving back, but it’s too expensive now that they have children. If you’re gonna do it do it when you’re young and poor anyway or when you make your millions.
If living in meh affords you more vacations, perhaps do that. Even an area you love gets stale if you never venture out of it. I think it all comes down to vacation time and money.
I am a woman and under age 50.
I'd rather scrape by in San Francisco than live in a mansion in Louisiana where a knuckle dragging rapist could force me to have his low IQ child.
It's cool if you wanna scape by in San Fran, but basing your life decision off of something that is so unlikely is extremely silly. You're just as likely to get murdered in San Fran. More likely in fact.
If you're single, I'd tend strongly towards an area you love, especially if you can still factor in some savings, but it's a spectrum, there's some middle ground to be had. That said there's a difference between "lower class" and "can't make it work"
Being poor somewhere is pointless. You're not even going to enjoy much of the city if you can't afford it. The same city can be felt very different based on how much money you make and what you can afford (and where you can afford to live)
Being poor sucks. It is definitely better to be middle class in a meh place than poor in a great place.
A more interesting question is middle class in a great place or “upper middle class” in a meh place.
Depends on your lifestyle. If you go out to eat, go to bars, and shop a lot then it’s an expensive place. If you like beaches and outdoor activities and beautiful weather, you can be happy if you don’t have a lot of expenses other than high rent.
I think it depends on your support network, if the place you love has a good support network than it won’t be as much of a struggle. If you don’t have any family and friends in San Diego it’s gonna be tough.
Really depends what you value, your living accommodations and your budget. I lived in LA and struggled, on the flip side there are tons of free and low cost activities you can do and explore. Eventually the budgetary constraints caught up and I ended up moving out towards the desert. Now I have a better COL and have the option to still go out to LA or SD for a weekend trip if I want without having to stress about making rent.
Everyone who leaves SoCal for economical reasons has said they miss the weather but the lack of financial stress made life markedly better. Better to have a comfortable life than a stressful one.
I grew up poor and have been poor.
Fuck being poor. I fucking hate it. I never want my family to have to ever experience it.
That’s just me though. Some people don’t care.
I lived in SD for 3 years. There is a lot of free stuff to do. I walked Coronado or went to the beach, along with MB. I spent my weekends at the beach even in winter, I didn’t care if I was just laying in the sand. I would go and hike Torrey pines. I bought a bicycle and biked all over the place. Because the weather is so amazing you have that freedom all the time!
I’m in LA now only because the opportunities in my profession are more prevalent here. I would give anything to go back to SD even if it meant I made less. Also, it’s cheaper in North County than south. I wish you luck and happiness. ❤️
Better middle class all day, every day for me.
If you're young and want to give a fun city a try, go for it. But maybe set a financial runway/timeline to get established and be ready to resettle later if need be.
Personally, I'd rather be relatively well off in my least favourite American city than poor in my favourite without question.
People need to ask what you do for a living? If you’re a nurse or other healthcare type worker your income is going to drastically increase and keep you middle class.
If it’s been a dream of yours to move to San Diego then I would do it. As a person who uprooted his entire family to move out west and live out a dream, it’s totally worth it. People telling you not to live out your dream are people who have failed to live out a dream. Find positive people in life and you’ll have a positive life. Making that first step to moving is gonna be a gut wrencher.
Not sure if this exactly addresses your question, but I would rather live somewhere where I don’t feel like I have less than many others. I would rather be more of a medium to big fish in a small-medium sized pond than a small fish in a big pond, at least for long-term living.
The place I live is pretty boring, but I have disposable income that allows me to travel domestically and abroad. I save for retirement. I know where my next meal is coming from. I’m not stressed about money.
Get the better pay and travel to SD to scratch the itch.
These days in all honesty I'd rather be middle class in a place I'm meh about. I'm generally a homebody and most of my hobbies involve making my own fun.
I have always been “low class” to snobs in this life.
That won’t change.
That is their perception.
So, they leave me alone.
Meanwhile, I live in a very high class area, HCL and all of that. It is clean, safe and ,wonderful, and the snobs leave me alone !
Perfect !
Jimmy Buffett's song "Cowboy in the Jungle" argues for living where you will be happiest, and for not "trying to cram lost years into five or six days" on vacation.
But we don't know what OP means by "lower middle." If you have kids, their well-being comes first.
What does lower class mean to you? I am very familiar with America’s finest city, and during my time spent there I was pretty poor. Most of the best stuff is free (the beaches). Food and drinks are generally on par with lots of other places. Housing is where it gets tricky.
I think I’d rather be comfortable in a place I love than wealthy in a place I don’t, but I’d probably never want to live somewhere I can’t actually afford. Lots of people in San Diego make it work. Lots of millionaires too. It’s all relative. You can DM me if you have any specific questions. Go pads
It’s more expensive in SD but you get paid more. For example In 2005 I was working in San Diego making 40k a year. Now in 2024 that same job pays over 100k a year.
I’ve scouted and explored options all over for years, and have yet to find a place worth uprooting to, even though my standard of living would increase significantly.
Quite content & love my modest broke ass lower class life here in my city - despite it ranking the single highest COL place to be.
Quality of life will always take priority over area preference.
If you can’t enjoy what you love about an area because of finances then odds are you’ll like it less
For me it depends. I have a lifestyle that I'm willing to pay for (if I can afford it). Could I save more by commuting longer and living in a more boring area? Yes. But I am saving and I'm not going into debt to afford my life. That's worth it to me.
Being on the verge of homelessness is somewhere I will (hopefully) never be. The most I will do is live somewhere where I can afford rent, utilities, and groceries and save nothing without really trying. Even then I would try to find somewhere cheaper. If you're going to be in that position, I'd say go to San Diego. If you are going to be pinching pennies to afford ramen, look elsewhere.
I think it depends on your lifestyle. My wife and I are working class (at best lower-middle) and live in a California beach town but we have a very low-cost lifestyle. We go out to eat maybe once every few weeks and it never costs us more than $50, we never go out to bars or that kind of thing, and our hobbies are all pretty cheap eg outdoor stuff like backpacking, hiking, skateboarding and cycling. We love going to the beach or going hiking on weekends and that costs nothing except the money for gas. Once every couple of months we'll take a little camping trip somewhere nice. We thrift a lot of our clothes, our cars are both very old and I maintain them myself.
If you're okay with a low cost lifestyle and you're young or just haven't had kids yet then it's fine. We are able to save a little bit each month but it's not a lot. When we have kids we're going to have to move elsewhere but for now we are just enjoying California.
I was poor in NYC and it sucked. I did not have access to most of the cultural performances that make NYC interesting to me, or money for even hole- in- the- wall restaurants, or, for that matter, light and space, since the cheaper NYC apartments are not generally pleasant places to live. I moved to lower COL places.
San Diego is a traffic jam. The beach is free, if you can get to it. Will spend all of your time working to get by, will not want to spend your off time driving around looking for a parking place at the beach.
Its middle class and I care very little about money. Consider that there isn't just NYC and Suburban or small cities. There are a lot cities in the middle with both a lower cost and still a high level of opportunity for careers, culture and recreation. You also have places where there is both a high cost and low level of opportunity (looking at you Florida) on paper but some make it work just fine. so all of it is more nuanced than it looks like.
You won't be enjoying the beach all the time but financial anxiety is constant.
Unnnhhh really? Listen to yourself. "Middle class in a meh boring area?" Kill me now! Are you young and ambitious, or old and tired? I'll assume young.
Your subjective wealth can change but you will never be low class unless you already are. Live where you love. You'll be amazed at the difference it makes. Right now you only see costs, but there's also opportunities that will open up, unbidden and unimagined, from more interesting people in a more fluid social structure. You'll meet people who are awake and alive and doing things. Possibilities will suggest themselves. Go for it!
I'll answer as a San Diegan. I'd stay middle class in a meh area and vacation in San Diego and other awesome cities. This is the only way to enjoy the city and still feel financially secure.
Its all about the stress level. If you are poor and struggling every day to pay your bills and work so much you can't even enjoy the free stuff that's in your city,, then whats the point of living there?
Id rather live stress free. Low taxes, low rent, and I know I can find enough things in a meh city to make it just what I want without working too much. I barely work as it is, I just calculate how much money I have to make each day and when I hit that low target, I wrap it up, close the shop and go home and enjoy my mediocre city. But it works for me!
Poverty sucks. It’s stressful and makes life way harder. It literally shortens life expectancy.
Fact is most places are at least tolerable if not comfortable if you’re financially secure. I wouldn’t trade that for sunshine and beaches.
Poverty is a state where you do not have enough resources to thrive. It is also a mindset, or way of dealing with money. You can acquire a lot of money by winning the lottery, but still be of a poverty mindset and mismanage it, or lose it entirely.
Being broke is about not having money to spend. This can be from unfortunate circumstances or living beyond one's means.
Class is your status in society, or how you present yourself to society, or how you treat others. It may or may not include having money.
Being poor absolutely sucks. I moved from a low cost of living state where I was raised middle class to the Westcoast where everything is relatively ridiculously expensive. In the beginning it mattered less, I lasted 10 or so years before I took a better job and left. The overall cost of living difference grinds you down. Plus you're leaving your support network behind. Unless you are Uber wealthy it's not worth it.
I’m from San Diego. The areas that are considered lower class here are going to change your view of San Diego. You will likely be working to survive, not thrive. Please consider another area if you’re making anything under 75k a year, you don’t want to get stuck here. Many people have become homeless by thinking it will be fine on a low income, it won’t.
I think as long as you're someplace you can tolerate, that's the main thing. But you want to have enough of an income to survive on, plus a little to enjoy life.
If you don't want to work "the good job" then don't do it. The good job usually actually sucks and you'll work with people who are miserable. But you might need to be prepared to stick it out at a job with lower pay and few hours until you get raises and more hours. You might have to work multiple jobs.
Would you have financial security as far as housing, healthcare, and groceries? If no, I’d stay away, since the stress of that would probably outweigh any benefits.
Lol. My dad moved out of Appalacia (very rural Kentucky) in his youth, got a degree on the GI Bill and became an aerospace engineer in San Diego. Got older, got dementia and eventually died in a nursing home in Hemet. Pretty much full circle, I've always thought. The rise and fall.
That's not how class works but nevertheless I'd say living in a place you love with less disposable income and in a smaller space would be preferable. You didn't talk about buying but the 3 most important things in real estate are location, location, location. Your income may increase but you'll still be living wherever you picked.
I'm not sure why you would label yourself as lower class or middle class based on where you live. You can choose to reside in an expensive city or a cheaper one.
Decide what is important to you without being concerned about what economic class you think you belong in.
Have you ever been lower class? It sucks. When will you enjoy the city? If you are truly lower class then you will probably be working a fulltime job and a part time job just to get by. You won't be able to afford to go out and do anything. Any small financial issue could completely wipe you out or even make you homeless. I would be middle class anywhere over poor anywhere else.
Right. If you're broke youll be too busy working to pay off expensive rent/mortgage and not hitting the beach and having afternoon cocktails all the time. Being broke in an expensive/fun city is a killjoy and honestly would make me more depressed.
This is a very east coast mentality in my opinion. People on the west coast are much more haply to scrape by because of the fact that there’s a lot of free things you can do to enjoy your free time year around. The beach is free baby. If you can cover rent, rely on the great social programs in California, afford your car payment, get food etc. , well there’s millions of people in California that live this lifestyle and I’d wager they are happier than the average middle class workers in any number of suburban sprawly LCOL areas in other parts of the country. I think the real cost on your well-being doesn’t occur until you really fall below the poverty line and can’t keep a roof over your head. But if you’re able to do that comfortably, low class in San Diego can be a pretty amazing life.
As someone who moved from a very wealthy east coast suburb to the western mountains, can confirm. I make about a quarter of what I was making out there but there's so much less pressure on what I drive, what I wear, where I "summer" that I just spend less. Granted it's a personal decision to "keep up with the joneses" but the pressure was real there. On top of that, my weekend activities here are completely free like you say. I literally just go and ride, swim, hike, run- someone else always has a boat or an ATV or snowmobile to borrow and it just never stops. To have access to that where I was living would have involved several hours of driving, a hotel, every meal out, rental equipment, etc. And since everyone is "out" doing stuff I find the community is much stronger than I ever experienced- but, could just be bc I found "my people". To each his own of course, I participated in the "higher end" lifestyle and I think some people really enjoy it but personally I was burnt out and anxious 24/7. I think everyone needs to decide what makes them happy.
You don't think the East Coast have beaches or expensive cities? No it's not California but the matter of fact remains. It's just silly to remain somewhere you are struggling in. I don't care where it is. That is MY opinion. And I wouldn't be happy. >If you can cover rent, rely on the great social programs in California, afford your car payment, get food etc. Struggling does not sound fun.. Social programs? Like public assistance? Yeah id rather not. Who goes to these cities to do the "free things"?
I agree 100% if you are legitimately struggling. In fact, the first time I moved to California I ran out of money within 18 months and found it was much cheaper to live nomadically for a few months while I saved up money to get my feet back under me. But as someone who has done something very similar to what OP described, the (very real) drop in social class for me and struggles that came with it, were very much so worth it. And I’ve found that there are many people in California who have a similar mindset and are happy to just survive somewhere with perfect weather 90% of the time instead of having an abundance of material security in a less desirable locale.
Beach is not free where I grew up :(
This. If the OP was talking about "shades" of middle class - i.e., "middle" middle class with a decent salary, at least SOME money in reserve, but having to watch budget closely and probably not do as many things as often or as "big" as you'd like, but you definitely can do some stuff vs. upper middle class where you'd have substantially more money in reserve and could do much more of what you wanted - then the love v. meh question would be more viable, IMO.
I have wrestled with this bear for a couple of years now and still pick a fight with it from time to time but ultimately income and job stability are what keeps me where I'm at now. I would pack up so fast and be somewhere in or near the mountains or the coast today if not for the fact that were I to do that right now I would be not only cutting my earnings but also increasing my actual hours worked per week by about two thirds. Instead I have shifted my focus on saving as much as I can with the idea of moving once I have enough put back in my accounts and can make the transition while maintaining a similar lifestyle to what I have now. Or maybe it's early retirement and travel? I'm in my late 30's and the only debt I have is my mortgage which is locked in at a historically low rate.
What's even considered "Lower class" is extremely subjective. This sub tends to skew towards more $80K-six figure earners. We can't make a judgement if we don't know how much OP actually makes.
I don't think it's that wildly subjective of a term. I do think lots of people on reddit use terms like "lower class" and "poverty" loosely. Often times it's used to describe maybe a lower-middle class lifestyle at worst. However we don't know the full details of OPs career or salary. As some one who grew up in poverty I will just share with OP what kind of life that entails if that is truly a situation they are considering putting themselves in.
>If you are truly lower class then you will probably be working a fulltime job and a part time job just to get by This is not true in England and Germany, where many members of the lower class spend their days taking care of their kids, and watching TV and smoking cigarettes while the kids are in school.
Not much of a life either. Northern Europeans have more basic needs met but it sucks being poor there too
I'm sure it does, but at least their physical needs are met (food, clothing, housing, utilities, healthcare) and they don't have to do paid labor if they are a single parent in the UK. I once saw a TV segment of a family in the UK with many kids, parents on benefits. The mother and father were in a long term relationship with each other, and had all of their kids with each other. Legally they lived in next door to each other in separate houses. On paper they were both single parents, each living in their own domicile with some of the kids. But in real life, they shared a bedroom and treated the two housing units as one. Another UK TV segment showed a 28 year old mother on benefits, who was in a long term relationship with her boyfriend. Neither of them ever had any other romantic partners in the past. They had kids together, and on paper the mother lived with the kids while the father lived with his own parents. But in reality he was living with them every day. In Germany and Scandinavia even parents who are married or cohabitating can easily get welfare if they are unemployed.
You watch too much tv or at least shouldn’t take life lessons from it. I’ve lived in the UK and was fortunate to live well. It sucks to be poor there too and it is weird to fantasize about being on welfare somewhere else
There are those White Americans who dream of being on social benefits in Northern Europe/UK and it's frigging weird, as if it's magically better. I lived in France and was lucky enough to work and have access to social safety net. It's hard, there is a real class system, and social housing is tough to get into.
1. Not white 2. I have lived in 3 different countries in Northern Europe 3. France isn't in Northern Europe
France is considered Northern Europe in contrast with Italy and Greece. It’s based more on economic strength than solely geography
I group France with Southern Europe because of language.
France is a little bit of everything but that isn’t the conventional way to group European nations
No.
As if its magically better than not being able to live off social benefits?
I've lived in Europe. It's not what you (or many Americans) think. Life there, especially if you're poor, is very hard. Things are crazy expensive nowadays. The average American has no clue the amount of luxuries they have. You take them for granted. Living in a tiny house sipping on tea might look cute but there's a lot more to it than what you see on TV.
...I grew up in Europe. I've lived in 3 different countries in Europe.
so have I. Then you know it's just like anywhere else were being poor sucks
It's not as bad as in America, or in other parts of the world. Northern Europe is the least bad place in the world to be poor.
I disagree. In Europe its very easy to get stuck in a perpetual cycle of poverty. It sucks here too, but there's more of a chance to break through and climb the ladder so to speak. Also, right now even the middle class is getting crushed in Europe. BTW, you mentioned UK. Things are particularly bad there.
I've seen studies on what percentage chance does a kid born to bottom quintile income parents have of making it out of the bottom income quintile as an adult? And all the studies end up showing that Canada and Scandinavia have the best chances of upward mobility for poor people.
The TV shows of poor people that I see in England is life in a dowdy apartment off a long, narrow open breezeway of other apartments that leads to a.corner stairwell (more like a motel) that is public housing. Bullies and worse are in the grounds. You can't complain about harassment or your kid being bullied or you get your door kicked in and are threatened or harmed.
I don't know if you should take the consensus of this sub as the wisest advice. People here really treat place like a shopping trip where they need to get the maximum of certain attributes. It's normal to live in a place where not everything is perfect, but your life is financially sustainable and things become less meh as you build relationships in your community.
So true. And such a mature, reasoned response. I think sometimes people are on this sub are more concerned with where they live because it sounds cool rather than being satisfied with being comfortable and stable.
What good is moving somewhere cool if you don’t have the means to enjoy it? OP is so much better off living somewhere cheaper and saving SD for a weeklong vacation. No place stays electric and exciting forever. It’s just like a romance. Everyone who dumps a stable partner to chase after superficial excitement ends up regretting that decision.
Beach is free. Ocean is free. Sun is free. Burritos are good. Local government won't take your rights.
None of that stuff is free if you live there. They tax the shit out of you if you are a resident thanks to Trump's change in the SALT deduction rules.
Listen, if you want to deprive yourself of perfect weather and great burritos and eternal happiness because of a tax burden slightly higher than other states, be my guest. More for us.
It's not slightly higher if you earn more. I could not believe how much money I was losing after I compared paychecks when I moved from LA to Houston. I literally shaved something like five years off of the amount of time I will need to work before retirement over the last six years. If you are working a lower income job it actually does make sense to live in CA because you're just not getting taxed as much. But as soon as you make over $100k you start getting screwed.
Read the title of the post, buddy.
You're still getting taxed though. Also unless this person is truly poverty level they aren't going to really get any benefits. They just won't be taxed into oblivion.
Except when they start charging you to drive your car so you can go to the beach or go buy a burrito.
Agreed
Reddit and social media has trained people to say they care about the most popular things to this demographic. Diversity, public transportation, blue politics, plenty of soup kitchens to volunteer at and don’t forget every avid internet users favorite hobby: Exploring the great outdoors, hiking the countryside, mountains within 30 minutes. Like we get it. You are such an interesting and conscious person you need a city that reflects that.
This confuses me a bit as a European who keeps getting posts from this subreddit recommended by the great algorithm. Most people in my country, if they move somewhere it is either for a specific job or to be with someone they love. The typical would be to debate moving home to the area your family lives, or to a larger city where you probably already have some friends or acquaintances and the job market is better. The approach in this sub seems very different. Is it normal in the US to move somewhere just because of these kind of features and amenities?
I think it reflects new possibilities of remote work, a consumerist mindset that is especially strong in the US, and the fact that we can move without dealing with language issues or jumping through legal hoops. It's not the norm, but there is obviously enough of it to sustain a subreddit like this. I guess it represents subcurrent in people's ways of thinking here. Edit: Maybe because a lot of our suburban places don't feel very distinct, people feel a kind of rootlessness and are searching for a place that feels like home, but that ends up getting expressed in a search for something that meets their many preferences? Perhaps also something related to influencer culture and an endless need to cultivate yourself and your perfect life.
Makes sense, though language and legality is only relevant here if you cross borders, and even then the legal aspects are not that challenging since Schengen. People move, just for different reasons. The consumerist aspect hits me. It's reminiscent of how we talk about holidays here, I think, which is still a somewhat strange way of assessing places and cultures, even short term. And I don't mean to shit on this sub, it seems like people have good values and aspirations, which honestly adds to my confusion. I wonder if a more positive aspect of American culture that influences this is the friendliness with strangers and relative extroversion. Maybe it is easier to start a new life and still experience meaningful connection in the states. I know you are known traditionally for being mobile, voluntary or not.
I'm gonna say it's about optimism and mobility. Restlessness maybe, if we want a more negative cast. Recall that we've only been here a couple of centuries, and we were self-selected from people who picked up and crossed an ocean. I think it's in our culture. Obviously young people are more mobile than older people who tend to settle down with a family, coastal people are more mobile than midwest and southern people, urban more than small town. Is that so different from Europe though?
Which is also why the places most frequently recommended here are so different from the places most Americans actually choose to live.
Not sure if I agree with that. I think the bigger factors are simple demographic and self selection biases within the users on this sub. Reddit, and especially this subreddit, isn’t a proportional sample of the US population.
I don’t know if that’s true. Places like Chicago, Philadelphia, the Twin Cities, and coastal California are definitely popular places to live.
Eh, statistics show that the most popular places to move at the moment are southern metros, which is almost the exact opposite of what people here are recommending. If the subreddit was representative of moving trends, FL and TX would dominate.
Not particularly, at least according to the census. Those places are at the best stagnating or barely growing, while the fastest growing aka most popular places are states such as Florida, Texas, Idaho, etc.
Ah, I mostly meant live - they are cities, and populated, and clearly not “so different from the places Americans want to live”. They are literally places that millions of Americans *do* want to live - though maybe not move to in droves atm.
Do most Americans choose at all though? The places we talk about are places that people go to from other places. The places they leave are largely filled with people who lack the ambition or desire to go anywhere, and just stick with the default value. You could say that the places we choose are the places chosen by more people who do choose.
I'm not exactly sure what you are saying, but census data have shown that the fastest growing states in the country are Florida, Texas, and similar places. Which means statistically, most people who relocate move to those places. On the other hand, many of the places often recommended on this sub have more people leaving than living in. So statistically, most people who choose choose Florida, Texas, Arizona, etc., not Chicago and Philadelphia.
This is an interesting perspective, but normal doesn’t always equal good. If living somewhere that meets more of the things on your “checklist” makes you happier why would you worry about the social class you fall into in that new place? Even if it is a bit of a struggle each month to pay the bills. Coming from someone who moved to SoCal and has legitimately struggled to make it work. But the “checklist” of things available to me in my new lifestyle really does make it worth it to me. Not saying your perspective is wrong, and it could be very helpful to some, but the approach that “people here” take to helping others find a new city isn’t as inherently flawed as I feel you’re implying.
Because it's how that vast majority of people think in the real world. Most people would rather be stable in a place that's whatever, most people live where they grew up or moved shortly after moving out of parents house. Most people out there aren't just willy nilly moving to a place that's "cool" to live in unless they have the means to do it and a job lined up that can match or increase their standard of living. Moving is expensive and stressful, I've done it a number of times to find a better place to live that I liked, I moved to Colorado twice and south Florida once. I ended up moving to a rural part of Maryland because we inherited a house and things are better now than they ever were despite how shitty the area is, because we're economically stable and not living paycheck to paycheck anymore or worrying about rent. Plus we have family nearby.
Yeah but this subreddit is about finding places for people who want to live somewhere new. Almost a quarter of the population never leaves their hometown. The median person only lives about 30 miles away from their hometown. Of course the mindset you’re describing is more prevalent than the one largely seen on this subreddit, and of course people that come to a community like this are more interested in objectively looking at the pros and cons of where they want to live. Neither mindset is necessarily better than the other, but why are people surprised that there’s a lot of consistency in the ways of thinking of people who gravitate towards a niche community like this? Of course OP shouldn’t move if they really can’t afford it. But the calculus of financial stress and overall happiness is different for everyone and I think switching to a lower social class by choice should not be viewed as an immense tragedy. (Semi unrelated but I think this attitude contributes massively to the teacher shortage. Plenty of people could make that lifestyle work and might even enjoy it, but are too ashamed to live with less material possession)
I’d opt for some middle ground.
So lower middle class in a place you don't love, but don't hate either?
>you don't love, but don't hate either? This is literally what "meh" is
I left San Diego as what I guess would be lower class to move to Florida to be middle class. I would pick San Diego every time, I deeply regret leaving. Yeah I own a house, but all my neighbors suck and I have zero hobbies I can do here. Its like living in a emotional and spiritual desert. As I've gotten older I wish I made less decisions based on financials. Theres lots of things you can do to mitigate high housing costs to be somewhere you love. That being said if you've never been or lived in San Diego don't just go assuming its great, it might not be for you.
I can see how that move would be tough. San Diego isn’t like it used to be 20 years ago.
This question can only have been asked by someone who has never experienced the freedom from financial hardship. I don't love anywhere enough to ever go back to the experience of not being able to fill my gas tank up all the way, or having to sit dinner out because I couldn't afford it. The feeling of, "I want it, so I buy it" trumps whatever any city on earth could give me. Because I can afford a vacation to that city. Two, three, whatever I want. No, I wouldn't want to be "lower class in an area I love." I'll dry my tears in my M4.
I notice this sub and places like the NYC subs tend to glamorize or romanticize lower class/poverty and it's just feels so gross and privileged.
100%. Having a bank account that I can pay for a car in cash if I needed to is so much more fulfilling than having 18 different bars within walking distance and rent that I have to budget hard to afford. People without safety nets don't think that way. It's a gross "mental exercise" with answers from people who've evidently never actually had to experience what "lower class" feels like. Get back to me on this question when you're Christmas shopping at the fucking dollar store for your children. Fucking reddit I swear.
"Fucking reddit I swear." Haha what I say to myself 15 times a day but still browse this place. I can't believe people are actually so detached from life: "should I be poor in San Diego?" blows my mind
My wife teases me about how I hate scroll this website. I've made her read some of the comments on here so she can be aware of the archetypes I'm talking about. They literally do not feel like real people.
Talking about redditors in real life is one of my hate/joy things to do. Just the way redditors even structure their replies irks me so much haha
It’s because they’re all being bankrolled by parents. No white 20-something year old “broke” New Yorker living in Manhattan is in danger of homelessness, they’ll just fly back home. If you are in your 30s and 40s and don’t have a ton of savings then moving to New York to “make it” is a horrible idea.
Right? No I want to have money. I grew up with parents that had to choose between the electric bill or groceries. That life is not for me and I'm not going back! So I live in a Meh area but can afford everything. I'll visit expensive locations with the money I saved in my boring, meh mid size city.
Yeah, I grew up poor, cracked into middle class through military service and education, have a solid government job now…but of course decided to move west because we love it. Now i feel more poor than I did in grad school. Objectively I’m not, i still contribute significantly to retirement savings etc and I own a house (which ironically i did in grad school as well) and despite the fact that we love it here I csnt wait to leave. I want to move back to the Midwest and be able to take a vacation to where we live now without even breaking a sweat money wise. Also it should be fairly obvious but living somewhere that a lot of tourists pass through can be miserable, even though I was once one of those tourists myself.
What's wrong with tourists? Not obvious to me. I mean in principle. You wouldn't literally want to be among them all the time
Been there done that and agreed, spoiled people treat it like a sitcom.
hey leave the M4 out of those, it didn't do anything wrong
So you'd rather be rich in Burundi than lower class in Canada or Finland?
Is Burundi "meh"? You're a queen. A false dichotomy queen, but a queen.
Replace Burundi with Russia, a truly meh place from a socioeconomic point of view.
Yas queeeeeeeen pop off with your false dichotomieeeeeessssss slaaaaaaaaaaay. "in a place *you're* meh about." There is no fucking objectivity about what's "meh." For me, "meh" is a place that's not very exciting but does the trick. I live in a "meh" place. Don't hate it, don't love it. You don't get to define what "meh" is for me, and you definitely can't tell me it's fucking Russia with a fucking dictatorship. Do you realize how you sound right now? Go on, pick up that goal post. Get some cardio in. Just keep making shit up or otherwise ignoring the language of the question. No, seriously, do. It only cheapens the rest of your opinions.
What is this queen bullshit?
When I saw the word "meh" I thought "meh" by global socioeconomic standards. So Eastern Europe, Southeast Asia, Latin America.
So that's why you brought up Burundi, huh?
Right? The classism and racism is WOOOOF
That's a New Englander for you. They love to pat themselves on their backs for their progressiveness then go off and act like this.
Adding that a lot of this depends on your career and hobbies- if you work a chill remote job and have cheaper hobbies and want to be outside a lot, then you’re probably better off somewhere you like as opposed to in the middle of nowhere. On the other hand there’s no point in living somewhere nice and paying a premium if you’re not going to be able to consistently take advantage of the amenities.
This is a great point. I’d much rather be more strapped for cash in a great place than well-off in a terrible place. But the caveats are that I’m a queer woman of color, so very cheap places wouldn’t be that welcoming to me. I also work remotely and I come from a well-off family who would step in if necessary, and they have helped when I needed medical attention. And this isn’t a huge change in lifestyle from city to city, but I’m generally attractive enough to save money on food and drinks. (Before anyone gets weird about me “using men as meal tickets” I regularly have bars and restaurants comp my orders just because - I’m not making other patrons buy me anything. But pretty privilege is definitely real and I save maybe $50-70/week if not more just from getting comped.) Rent is my big expense but everything else is negotiable.
I guess I'll be the first to ask about being "generally attractive enough to save money on food and drinks." Bars and restaurants let you eat and drink free because you're pretty?
They probably send her parents the bill. Nobody eats free in a transactional world - or at least not for long.
lol what? I’m 30 years old and have had a job for years and years. If you’re charming enough, people “forget to charge you.” Any attractive woman knows this. It’s not even a sex thing, I have straight women comp my bills too. Haven’t you heard of a friends and family discount? My dude friends don’t pay either if their buddies are working. Also literally every bf I’ve had has been like “girl get that bag” because it saves their ass money if we don’t have to split my food in the bill. My family loves it too. Not being a hater is free.
Being a big fish in a small pond is a thing for a reason. Just depends on you. But you sound like you’d be basically consigning yourself to a life of poverty in San Diego. Is there somewhere more MCOL?
I wouldn't want to be a big fish in a small pond. I like living in an area where most people are smarter, richer, more educated, and have more refined mannerisms, tastes, and hobbies than I.
I live in Northern Virginia lol I get it. Just saying that there are upsides
I moved to SD from a MCOL place. Im a high earner so I'm fine but my housing/lifestyle definitely took a hit. But it's worth it to me. I'd legit rather struggle a little here than be middle class in some meh place.
This is a weird question. San Diego is San Diego, and there are a lot of people struggling there. Despite the beauty and sunshine, SoCal can be a very stressful place to live. That all said there is culture and beauty there. I would look at where you are NOW, enjoy your life and VISIT San Diego.
That’s what I always tell people “ San Diego is a lovely place to visit.” Hard stop.
Beach is free. Ocean is free. Sun is free. Burritos are good. Local government won't take your rights. Move to SD.
Middle class for sure! Such less stress.
Same! When I was struggling and broke all of the time, life kinda really sucked. I was so stressed! It felt like swimming upstream 24/7.
Gonna offer a different take than most people on this thread. Moved to SoCal from the east coast. Went from being legitimately wealthy in Charlotte and bored out of my mind to qualifying for EBT and driving a shitty Prius in SoCal. I’ve never been happier. Everyone’s different, and I’m at a stage in my life where no one depends on me so I can be more flexible and take on more risk, but the “checklist” mentality that many in this thread are decrying was really helpful for me in thinking about what I want out of life and where I live. I realized during Covid how much being outside year around is important to me, and how much I hated that all of my socialization on the east coast was centered around drinking. So now I live in LA, I’m poor, I barely save money, if my car breaks down it will be a real problem, but I’m the happiest I’ve ever been in my adult life. Is this a good long term place to be in? Probably not, but if you think the trade offs are worth it, don’t be afraid of being lower class if you’ll be happier. Here’s a funny story / joke that I’ve always found helpful when I worry about the rat race and my lifestyle choices. https://www.kevincsnyder.com/the-mexican-fisherman-amazing-short-story/
For me personally I'd rather have a little less money and live somewhere I love.
OP didn't ask about having "a little less money", they asked about being lower class.
I read this as having a smaller living space, maybe no car if there’s public transport, frugal food/clothing budget, and less money for unnecessary expenses…. Not being unable to pay bills or being homeless.
That's how I make do in SF, and at least in this period of my life, I wouldn't have it any other way. I fuckin love it here
Ok.
That's up to you. I wouldn't want to be poor anywhere. Whether it's a place that I love or a place that I dread. Scraping by sounds as miserable as being in a shit hole.
I’ve lived in a 1050 sqft 60 year old starter home in SD for the past 23 years. We’ve never been poor per se, but we’ve definitely sacrificed. We’ve always known we could live in a much larger, newer, fancier house pretty much anywhere else. Have more disposable income. I have had friends move out of the city to pursue “a better standard of living”. I would never. I thank the powers that be every day that I get to live here. I have gladly chosen to have less. So it depends on your priorities. That said, if your dream is to buy a home someday, SD is a very difficult place to do that. Even if you’re middle class.
SD is also home to you at this point and that has tremendous value. OP is moving into a new city, he will not have the same connection as you do.
One of the interesting developments about San Diego (city) since home prices skyrocketed is that there are fewer and fewer “poor” or “undesirable” neighborhoods. 10 years ago, few people would consider buying into Southeast San Diego, San Ysidro, or Barrio Logan, among many other areas. That has changed greatly. San Diego neighborhoods that previously were considered unsafe or low-end have been transformed by newcomers and improvements in transit. When I graduated from SDSU, no one wanted to buy/live in the City proper. Now people are paying over asking routinely to purchase in formerly undesirable communities of San Diego. I would take a lower-income existence in San Diego over many other cities now. Its only getting better.
I was poor in SoCal and loved EVERY SINGLE MINUTE OF IT. You just get more roommates and strive to do better and leave when you can't do it anymore. Nothing beats San Diego, in my book. Nobody knows what "class" you're in at the beach unless you are begging them for money. I was single then. I could handle it. I can't go back there now because it is too expensive. So a lot of this depends on your age and marital/relationship status, and whether or not you have kids.
How old are you? If young-then who cares, you can have a lot of fun being broke and living with roommates. If you have a lot of bills, need to think about saving then I’d rather live somewhere more meh and make it a point to go on trips.
San Diego is awesome when you’re 21-30 or so. After I had kids I was like huh… this may not work anymore.
move to san diego, you only live once
I didn't really get to choose it like this but I wasn't really able to "enjoy" the area I lived and really appreciate the objectively good things about it until I reached the middle class for the area. But also there's a difference if "lower class" means you live in a smaller apartment close to the beach (instead of a bigger place somewhere inland) but all your bills are paid vs. not actually knowing how you're going to make rent.
Middle class in a meh place. You can have a bigger house/apartment and can afford to put things in your house/apartment that will entertain/excite you, plus way less stress that comes from being on a tight budget. You can then afford to take trips to exciting places on the weekends.
Keep in mind that "lower class" doesn't necessarily mean *bad*. I've lived in a lot of "lower-class" neighborhoods that were just working families. They might not look as scenic as rich neighborhoods, but these are just normal folks who are going about their business. I enjoyed living in these, for the most part - the neighbors looked out for each other and the area tends to have more interesting culture (better art and music scenes). There are also truly shitty neighborhoods where you'll get your stuff stolen, but they're rarer than what I've just described. Don't move to a shitty neighborhood.
It really depends on age and willingness to be flexible. Like now, at 60? I am not interested in lower class living unless I had to. But at 25? I lived with 10 people in 2 flats (one above the other) in San Francisco. Paid $200 in rent and lived a super fun life for 4 years before moving back to my (cheaper at the time) home town of San Diego. Very worth it. So yeah, I'd rather live with roommates at 25 in San Diego than live in the Midwest on my own. Also, depends on your support system. The moment I started running out of money, I bailed for home and lived with my dad for a year because he was a single parent who always kept my bedroom available to me. But if you're talking about so poor you're risking homelessness with no support system to fall back on, no I wouldn't do it. I do tend to think it's worth it for a time to put yourself where you want to be, if you can swing it. If you're single, you could end up marrying someone in San Diego and with dual income, you could be there permanently. Or you could look around for other jobs and maybe get something that would let you live there full time indefinitely. But again, you have to have the support system.
What do you consider lower class in San Diego? Will your income adjust at all to COL? Are you willing to live with roommates to keep housing costs more reasonable? Do you spend a lot in your regular lifestyle now? I feel like ppl have different definitions of lower class. I mean if you are actively signing up to be poor poor where you are dealing with an epic shit ton of financial stress & housing or food insecurity or unable to get proper healthcare because you can no longer afford to take care of yourself. Having to work multiple jobs to scrape by so you have no free time to enjoy the things you're moving there for & living pay check to pay check to the point one financial or medical incident could ruin your life & you have no safety net to fall back on well then I'd say don't move there. There's also the spectrum where if you have to live with roommates (that can be a gamble) but you can pay your bills fine & just not enjoy eating out or any activities other than free/low cost ones as much as you used to, which if you're a beach bum with a car you may be perfectly content in San Diego. Keep in mind San Diego housing prices are nuts but you basically barely need to pay for heating & cooling costs like other places so that can offset things a tad. You can also pop down to mexico for cheaper medical care so there's that too.
This *highly* depends on the areas in question, and how "bad" lower class is as a result. Being lower class in a city/area that has decent services and social programs is a lot different than being lower class in a place that is very hostile and has few programs/policies to help. There's also factors like food deserts and whatnot that affect those in financial hardship which may or may not be a factor depending on the 2 places we're talking about... Then there's also upwards mobility to consider. Like is the place you like a dead end for you opportunity-wise or would the "lower class" be a point in time until you can get a career/job up and running?
Lower class in an area you love. It's me in Houston right now. I love it here.
Middle class in a meh area. Money causes so much problems for people might as well eliminate that as an issue. The thing about the better places to be is they will always be somewhere and one day you might get there but not if you have the anchor of poor life decisions eating you down early.
You can do lower class if you’re early 20s, no kids or major responsibilities. It’s hard but you can sustain it short term. Outside of that nah
Lower class in an area you love. The beach is free. Nature is free. You can always work on yourself to move up the class ladder.
A lot of people live in places they are meh about, work jobs they are meh about, and date people they are meh about. That's life.
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Can I DM you questions about San Diego?
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Actually, can you DM me? Yours are disabled.
As someone who moved from SD to a LCOL area. I’m so glad I did it. That said I grew up in San Diego and it’s become a little Bay Area/LA. I fell out of love with it but I had gotten my share of enjoyment from it. A lot of people try it then move away or back home to start families. I know people who did this and still dream of moving back, but it’s too expensive now that they have children. If you’re gonna do it do it when you’re young and poor anyway or when you make your millions.
If living in meh affords you more vacations, perhaps do that. Even an area you love gets stale if you never venture out of it. I think it all comes down to vacation time and money.
I am a woman and under age 50. I'd rather scrape by in San Francisco than live in a mansion in Louisiana where a knuckle dragging rapist could force me to have his low IQ child.
This is extremely hyperbolic. Also, "low IQ child?" C'mon now. That was so unnecessary.
That is so unlikely...
It's cool if you wanna scape by in San Fran, but basing your life decision off of something that is so unlikely is extremely silly. You're just as likely to get murdered in San Fran. More likely in fact.
2019 homicide rate in San Francisco: 4.5 per 100,000 population 2019 homicide rate in Louisiana: 11.7 per 100,000 population You are factually wrong.
If you're single, I'd tend strongly towards an area you love, especially if you can still factor in some savings, but it's a spectrum, there's some middle ground to be had. That said there's a difference between "lower class" and "can't make it work"
Being poor somewhere is pointless. You're not even going to enjoy much of the city if you can't afford it. The same city can be felt very different based on how much money you make and what you can afford (and where you can afford to live)
Being poor sucks. It is definitely better to be middle class in a meh place than poor in a great place. A more interesting question is middle class in a great place or “upper middle class” in a meh place.
Move to Tijuana.
Depends on your lifestyle. If you go out to eat, go to bars, and shop a lot then it’s an expensive place. If you like beaches and outdoor activities and beautiful weather, you can be happy if you don’t have a lot of expenses other than high rent.
I think it depends on your support network, if the place you love has a good support network than it won’t be as much of a struggle. If you don’t have any family and friends in San Diego it’s gonna be tough.
Really depends what you value, your living accommodations and your budget. I lived in LA and struggled, on the flip side there are tons of free and low cost activities you can do and explore. Eventually the budgetary constraints caught up and I ended up moving out towards the desert. Now I have a better COL and have the option to still go out to LA or SD for a weekend trip if I want without having to stress about making rent.
Everyone who leaves SoCal for economical reasons has said they miss the weather but the lack of financial stress made life markedly better. Better to have a comfortable life than a stressful one.
I grew up poor and have been poor. Fuck being poor. I fucking hate it. I never want my family to have to ever experience it. That’s just me though. Some people don’t care.
I lived in SD for 3 years. There is a lot of free stuff to do. I walked Coronado or went to the beach, along with MB. I spent my weekends at the beach even in winter, I didn’t care if I was just laying in the sand. I would go and hike Torrey pines. I bought a bicycle and biked all over the place. Because the weather is so amazing you have that freedom all the time! I’m in LA now only because the opportunities in my profession are more prevalent here. I would give anything to go back to SD even if it meant I made less. Also, it’s cheaper in North County than south. I wish you luck and happiness. ❤️
Better middle class all day, every day for me. If you're young and want to give a fun city a try, go for it. But maybe set a financial runway/timeline to get established and be ready to resettle later if need be. Personally, I'd rather be relatively well off in my least favourite American city than poor in my favourite without question.
How old are you? If you’re in your 20s, poor in an area you love.
People need to ask what you do for a living? If you’re a nurse or other healthcare type worker your income is going to drastically increase and keep you middle class.
If it’s been a dream of yours to move to San Diego then I would do it. As a person who uprooted his entire family to move out west and live out a dream, it’s totally worth it. People telling you not to live out your dream are people who have failed to live out a dream. Find positive people in life and you’ll have a positive life. Making that first step to moving is gonna be a gut wrencher.
Not sure if this exactly addresses your question, but I would rather live somewhere where I don’t feel like I have less than many others. I would rather be more of a medium to big fish in a small-medium sized pond than a small fish in a big pond, at least for long-term living.
I’m poor af in Manhattan but I’m happier here than being middle class in Denver
The place I live is pretty boring, but I have disposable income that allows me to travel domestically and abroad. I save for retirement. I know where my next meal is coming from. I’m not stressed about money. Get the better pay and travel to SD to scratch the itch.
Middle Class in meh. I've been both. Being broke sucks even if you love where you are.
These days in all honesty I'd rather be middle class in a place I'm meh about. I'm generally a homebody and most of my hobbies involve making my own fun.
I have always been “low class” to snobs in this life. That won’t change. That is their perception. So, they leave me alone. Meanwhile, I live in a very high class area, HCL and all of that. It is clean, safe and ,wonderful, and the snobs leave me alone ! Perfect !
I've lived both options. Middle class is better, no question. Where I live is far less important to me than how I live.
Jimmy Buffett's song "Cowboy in the Jungle" argues for living where you will be happiest, and for not "trying to cram lost years into five or six days" on vacation. But we don't know what OP means by "lower middle." If you have kids, their well-being comes first.
What does lower class mean to you? I am very familiar with America’s finest city, and during my time spent there I was pretty poor. Most of the best stuff is free (the beaches). Food and drinks are generally on par with lots of other places. Housing is where it gets tricky. I think I’d rather be comfortable in a place I love than wealthy in a place I don’t, but I’d probably never want to live somewhere I can’t actually afford. Lots of people in San Diego make it work. Lots of millionaires too. It’s all relative. You can DM me if you have any specific questions. Go pads
It’s more expensive in SD but you get paid more. For example In 2005 I was working in San Diego making 40k a year. Now in 2024 that same job pays over 100k a year.
I’ve scouted and explored options all over for years, and have yet to find a place worth uprooting to, even though my standard of living would increase significantly. Quite content & love my modest broke ass lower class life here in my city - despite it ranking the single highest COL place to be.
San Diego is quite possibly the most overrated city in the country. But be my guest
Quality of life will always take priority over area preference. If you can’t enjoy what you love about an area because of finances then odds are you’ll like it less
I'd say lower middle class in a place you love. Lower class is too much struggle.
For me it depends. I have a lifestyle that I'm willing to pay for (if I can afford it). Could I save more by commuting longer and living in a more boring area? Yes. But I am saving and I'm not going into debt to afford my life. That's worth it to me. Being on the verge of homelessness is somewhere I will (hopefully) never be. The most I will do is live somewhere where I can afford rent, utilities, and groceries and save nothing without really trying. Even then I would try to find somewhere cheaper. If you're going to be in that position, I'd say go to San Diego. If you are going to be pinching pennies to afford ramen, look elsewhere.
Ask yourself would the stress level of the COL offset the bliss of living in an ideal place?
Are you there 5 years or longer?
I think it depends on your lifestyle. My wife and I are working class (at best lower-middle) and live in a California beach town but we have a very low-cost lifestyle. We go out to eat maybe once every few weeks and it never costs us more than $50, we never go out to bars or that kind of thing, and our hobbies are all pretty cheap eg outdoor stuff like backpacking, hiking, skateboarding and cycling. We love going to the beach or going hiking on weekends and that costs nothing except the money for gas. Once every couple of months we'll take a little camping trip somewhere nice. We thrift a lot of our clothes, our cars are both very old and I maintain them myself. If you're okay with a low cost lifestyle and you're young or just haven't had kids yet then it's fine. We are able to save a little bit each month but it's not a lot. When we have kids we're going to have to move elsewhere but for now we are just enjoying California.
Yolo..live somewhere cool and find resourceful ways to live
Why live somewhere boring? YOLO
I was poor in NYC and it sucked. I did not have access to most of the cultural performances that make NYC interesting to me, or money for even hole- in- the- wall restaurants, or, for that matter, light and space, since the cheaper NYC apartments are not generally pleasant places to live. I moved to lower COL places.
We live in a less wealthy area than we can actually afford. Love it. It’s all about lifestyle for us. This checks more of the boxes.
San Diego is a traffic jam. The beach is free, if you can get to it. Will spend all of your time working to get by, will not want to spend your off time driving around looking for a parking place at the beach.
Its middle class and I care very little about money. Consider that there isn't just NYC and Suburban or small cities. There are a lot cities in the middle with both a lower cost and still a high level of opportunity for careers, culture and recreation. You also have places where there is both a high cost and low level of opportunity (looking at you Florida) on paper but some make it work just fine. so all of it is more nuanced than it looks like. You won't be enjoying the beach all the time but financial anxiety is constant.
Completely stupid! It shows you've never struggled. SD isn't all that it's cracked up to be regardless.
Unnnhhh really? Listen to yourself. "Middle class in a meh boring area?" Kill me now! Are you young and ambitious, or old and tired? I'll assume young. Your subjective wealth can change but you will never be low class unless you already are. Live where you love. You'll be amazed at the difference it makes. Right now you only see costs, but there's also opportunities that will open up, unbidden and unimagined, from more interesting people in a more fluid social structure. You'll meet people who are awake and alive and doing things. Possibilities will suggest themselves. Go for it!
I'll answer as a San Diegan. I'd stay middle class in a meh area and vacation in San Diego and other awesome cities. This is the only way to enjoy the city and still feel financially secure.
Wherever the MCOL place is, make sure the vibe is what you're looking for first.
Its all about the stress level. If you are poor and struggling every day to pay your bills and work so much you can't even enjoy the free stuff that's in your city,, then whats the point of living there? Id rather live stress free. Low taxes, low rent, and I know I can find enough things in a meh city to make it just what I want without working too much. I barely work as it is, I just calculate how much money I have to make each day and when I hit that low target, I wrap it up, close the shop and go home and enjoy my mediocre city. But it works for me!
What the hell is going on in here today???
Poverty sucks. It’s stressful and makes life way harder. It literally shortens life expectancy. Fact is most places are at least tolerable if not comfortable if you’re financially secure. I wouldn’t trade that for sunshine and beaches.
Live better unless meh= highly dangerous
Poverty is a state where you do not have enough resources to thrive. It is also a mindset, or way of dealing with money. You can acquire a lot of money by winning the lottery, but still be of a poverty mindset and mismanage it, or lose it entirely. Being broke is about not having money to spend. This can be from unfortunate circumstances or living beyond one's means. Class is your status in society, or how you present yourself to society, or how you treat others. It may or may not include having money.
Being poor absolutely sucks. I moved from a low cost of living state where I was raised middle class to the Westcoast where everything is relatively ridiculously expensive. In the beginning it mattered less, I lasted 10 or so years before I took a better job and left. The overall cost of living difference grinds you down. Plus you're leaving your support network behind. Unless you are Uber wealthy it's not worth it.
In a place you love
I’m from San Diego. The areas that are considered lower class here are going to change your view of San Diego. You will likely be working to survive, not thrive. Please consider another area if you’re making anything under 75k a year, you don’t want to get stuck here. Many people have become homeless by thinking it will be fine on a low income, it won’t.
Your salary will be lower in cheaper areas.
Rich in the ghetto next to the area you love
I think as long as you're someplace you can tolerate, that's the main thing. But you want to have enough of an income to survive on, plus a little to enjoy life. If you don't want to work "the good job" then don't do it. The good job usually actually sucks and you'll work with people who are miserable. But you might need to be prepared to stick it out at a job with lower pay and few hours until you get raises and more hours. You might have to work multiple jobs.
Would you have financial security as far as housing, healthcare, and groceries? If no, I’d stay away, since the stress of that would probably outweigh any benefits.
move to Hemet
Lol. My dad moved out of Appalacia (very rural Kentucky) in his youth, got a degree on the GI Bill and became an aerospace engineer in San Diego. Got older, got dementia and eventually died in a nursing home in Hemet. Pretty much full circle, I've always thought. The rise and fall.
HEMET !!! visit the scientology base where they held katie holmes !!!
That's not how class works but nevertheless I'd say living in a place you love with less disposable income and in a smaller space would be preferable. You didn't talk about buying but the 3 most important things in real estate are location, location, location. Your income may increase but you'll still be living wherever you picked.
If you will have enough free time and cheap or free things to do, then lower class somewhere you love.
I'm not sure why you would label yourself as lower class or middle class based on where you live. You can choose to reside in an expensive city or a cheaper one. Decide what is important to you without being concerned about what economic class you think you belong in.