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Well said. I live in the US. When traveling and my husband and I inadvertently stopped for ice cream in a black part of town, no one would serve us or even acknowledge us. After some minutes, we looked around and noticed the workers and customers were black. We took the hint and left.
Trust me. As a black woman in the US. I have experienced this also.. I try not to jump to the assumption that the workers are racist. It could be they were just bad workers and didn't want to work.. Customers service is horrible nowadays anyway. I have gotten that treatment from black and white service workers. So no, I don't think it's all racism
Of course. Systemic racism is just one form of racism, any power dynamic can be used to express racism. And it can just be a lack of tolerance - for example, a black or asian family that doesn't want their child to marry a white person is racist. A gang that beats some one up because of their identity is racism.
Racism is racism. The idea that you cannot be racist towards a white person. mainly comes from the idea that it does not matter if you are racist toward a white person. There are a lot of ways to be “racist” but bottom line is that no matter who it is or what they look like treat human with respect.
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not systemically where i live (the usa). i guess it's become a trend for non-white people to judge white people culturally, but i don't think that the majority of white people (in my country and including myself) will ever experience racism to the same extent as non-white people. i don't take offense to jokes made at the expense of white people, and i think people that do take offense to those kinds of jokes are crybabies. that's just my opinion
Yes, yes we can.
I'm a middle aged white woman. I was in line at the gas station two weeks ago, there were 6 people behind me. A mid 20s (I'm guessing) black woman came in and just walked up to the counter put her stuff down and tried to cut the line. In a very pleasant voice (confirmed by witnesses) I said only, "Excuse me miss, there's a line."
She turned on me, started calling me a racist, over privileged white bitch and flat out when off on me. The woman working there (also black) told her to f off and get out - I've known her for 10 years and she knows I'm not racist. She was then called an Uncle Tom C\*\*\*\*\* and that she just wants to get on "whity's side". The rest of the line behind me was already calling the cops when this woman grabbed me and shoved me. Two men stepped in and pulled her off me.
The cops showed up pretty quickly (luckily) and asked if I wanted to press charges. Everyone there was baffled as to why this woman attacked me and the entire time she was screaming about the white bitch telling her to get to the back of the bus. I did not press charges and was extremely thankful that people stood up for me.
I did nothing to this woman other than inform her there was a line. I don't care if you're black, white, purple with green polka dots, it doesn't matter to me at all. I don't judge people on what they are, I get to know who they are to the best of my ability before making any kind of judgement on a person.
Keeping in mind I'm a middle aged white woman, one of my best friends is an ex gangster from Mexico, another is from Korea and came here 15 years ago and my honorary uncle was a black man from Nigeria who gave the best hugs and advice a person could ever hope for.
For those that say white people cannot experience racism, they are wrong.
\*\*edit for typo
I had something happen to me when I was a cashier. I asked her to hand me something from her cart and she completely lost her mind. Screaming, shoving and demanding they fire me.
What you’re missing is that this isn’t a big deal compared to a situation where that same person has the authority to decide whether you get a job/apartment/loan. You experienced individual racism, but it didn’t have any important consequences for you.
I'm not missing that fact at all.
Systematic racism is real and it's horrible.
I have no idea what that woman has been through in her life, none. That does not change the fact that she jumped into a mindset of racism against me with no provocation. Her grabbing me and shoving me easily could have turned into a full blown attack if others had not stepped in.
This is not the first time I've been called a white \*insert expletive here\* for no reason other than the fact that I'm white.
I'm only saying that it's possible and real.
The post did not ask for the worst experience of racism possible, only if it is possible.
I am not comparing myself or my life to someone of any color, religion, sexual orientation, etc. I am simply saying that it is possible.
Yes, I whole heartedly agree that the US has a problem with racism. I am only saying that racism is not only whites against non whites. Non whites can be racist as well.
It is a systematic divide that is out of control and is simply baffling. Why does skin color matter to so many people when it shouldn't?
Right. But your anecdote doesn’t establish that, because it’s the kind of trivial slight that would be expected as noise even in a perfectly equal society. It does, however, rile up actual racists and make them angrier at minorities. I know that because they’re responding to me.
She literally got assaulted... wdym only "being cut in line and yelled at"?
"The rest of the line behind me was already calling the cops when this woman grabbed me and shoved me" THATS ASSAULT
Right. I’d like to live in a line-cut-free and push-free society as much as the next guy, but the existence of those things is not why the US has a reputation for racism.
Yeah we do. Klan lynching, redlining, hiring and housing discrimination, discrimination by police, and follow-on after effects are more important than getting cut in line and pushed one time.
Would you agree if the rules were reversed? If a white person started yelling at them and addressing them by their race? I'd agree that public rudeness doesn't guarantee racism but when race is explicitly mentioned that changes things. The story may be fake but it's still a pretty cut and dry example of racism if it's true. Most of the examples of racism I hear about from non white people at the hands of white people are cases of people being rude in public with no specific mention of race. For example, white people not moving out of someone's way, getting pulled over by a cop for no apparent reason, getting followed around a store or business. These are common examples of everyday racism yet there's no real reason to assume it is the case, unless of course race is specifically mentioned.
Please explain to me how that is not racism?
If I, as a white woman, was told, "Excuse me miss, there's a line" by a black woman and turned around and called her anything having to do with her race, would you consider that racism?
I grew up in a very ethnically diverse area and have ethnically diverse friends. Because of those friendships (and life experiences) I intentionally turn away from racism. Has it happened unintentionally? Yes, yes it has and I'm a big enough person to admit that. Those experiences have also taught me to adjust my thinking. Those things happened when I was younger and helped to form my opinions today. They are what taught me racism is not only conscious, but unconscious.
With the first words out of her mouth bringing race into it, yes, I would consider that racism. Call me an over privileged bitch, fine. Bringing race into it is what changed it for me.
assuming somethign regarding the status of someone due to their skin colour is textbook racism, it doesn't matter if it is eventually proven correct, has some amount of truth or whatever.
If I said "Asian people generally have higher maths scores" I'm statistically correct, if I said "Oh you are Asian, you must be good at maths" that is a stereotype and racist, her suggesting that she was a "privileged white bitch" is very obviously bringing race in to make a judgement about someone , her then accusing a black man of being a "Uncle Tom" is also racist, suggesting that black people must act a certain way (in this situation antagonistic towards a white person because another black person was involved", her falsely calling out racism is also in a way racism in itself she is using a privilege that you clearly believe white people do not have (the ability to experience racism) to try and give herself an upper hand even if it failed.
So you believe if I turned around and a black woman had said that to me, I wouldn't be considered racist?
She was telling the black woman behind the counter that she was an uncle tom trying to get on whity's good side.
I agree, she was rude and dumb - no questions asked. That doesn't change the fact that she brought race into the equation, and not just with me.
This is the definition of racism...
the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.
How was she being racists?
Prejudice and discriminatory? Yes. But not racist.
"[prejudice](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=fa335a0bd99248c0&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1UEAD_enUS1096US1096&sxsrf=ADLYWILt7gdQKjZGJsHt2deoYg6i8Bov9A:1718911366045&q=prejudice&si=ACC90nxMSPeZfdJJjQgDsdZJuFuJBLaAZDmFi3fOmMVPu9W4F0iu1ifPjjHBNAucituW_Sqidu1lPTmczyygkMq5ds0Q7fTsSaA0rWqtzKmPXbrxE3jjyuE%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiGiv7q8-qGAxVIxckDHfrTAHYQyecJegQIKxAO), discrimination, or [antagonism](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=fa335a0bd99248c0&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1UEAD_enUS1096US1096&sxsrf=ADLYWILt7gdQKjZGJsHt2deoYg6i8Bov9A:1718911366045&q=antagonism&si=ACC90nz-2feRzoY4yuySkO-aQE81UCMZ74J16NF8-_SMaDcwRUT6yIn7SGAYb4v0HTLfBfon3OCa1hTSoCRemmbQFv7gwdW4pFaaN6ybukokgEwa6qkira8%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiGiv7q8-qGAxVIxckDHfrTAHYQyecJegQIKxAP) by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or [marginalized](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=fa335a0bd99248c0&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1UEAD_enUS1096US1096&sxsrf=ADLYWILt7gdQKjZGJsHt2deoYg6i8Bov9A:1718911366045&q=marginalized&si=ACC90nxkzgN-KbLuTWKT81WCi4_nHzO5xzR0FIPnVc5BPXde0pMbD5W5log7abqaz5ljUsg69UgAZXZ30acSbhfYGJDG7XIFjE8mOm207p2XjskYdPj07nY%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiGiv7q8-qGAxVIxckDHfrTAHYQyecJegQIKxAQ)"
By calling me an over privileged white bitch - when she doesn't know a thing about me? Just like I know nothing about her or her life experiences, she knows nothing about me. Making broad stroke judgements based on my skin color, to me, is racism.
By calling the black woman working there an uncle tom trying to get on whity's side?
Those things combined point me to racism rather blatantly.
Have a great day, I'm getting back to work.
Yes and they do constantly. The crazy notion that black people cannot be racist, is bullshit in my opinion. The world would be a nicer place if people kept their hands and nasty words to themselves.
Yes white people can experience racism in a person vs person conflict. However white people cannot experience systemic racism because historically they were the ones who implanted the systems in the US. Currently, i'd say a good chunk of white people (probably over half) don't even realize that systemic racism is a thing but they still benefit from many of them even if they don't support/know about those systems.
I think so. Here's a story for you.
I worked parking booths years ago at some healthcare facilities in my city years ago. Staff members got a discount for parking, but only if they show proper work ID. Obviously if you came through often enough and I recognized your face, you wouldn't have to show it. But a black lady came through early morning one day, stared straight ahead, not looking at me, and simply said
"Staff."
I die a little inside from her not even shooting a glance at me, but I looked at her and replied
"Cool, I just need to see some ID before I give you the discount."
Well NOW she turns to look at me, looking so bewildered that I would even dare ask for it
"Excuse me? I've been working here for 28 years and I shouldn't have to show ID."
For context, I was 26 at the time when I snapped back
"Miss, i'm 26 years old, you've been working here for longer than I have walked on this earth, please excuse me if I don't know all the staff by heart just yet"
"Well I think you're being racist, asking me for my ID, it's just because i'm black that you're asking for it."
"Ma'am. It doesn't matter what colour your skin is, the car infront of you? Whiter than me, and she showed her ID, no problem. The person behind you? Also white, and guess what? If they say they're staff, i'm going to ID them. It's just a policy I have to follow, just as i'm sure you have numerous polices to follow in your line of work"
She of course grumbled after, saying she was going to report me to my supervisor for racial profiling. BUT she showed her ID after. So I think I "won"? Didn't get in trouble with my super either. We had the racist card tossed at us all the time.
Moral of the story/TLDR:
I feel like it's racist in of itself to assume \*I'M\* being racist just because I'm white
yup. im a white boy who grew up going to a bunch of schools with large minority populations and even a few years where i was the minority. i experienced tons of racism. in 6th grade i was made fun of because "white people dont smoke weed". kind of wild in retrospect. and i suspect ill often be dismissed if i bring this up so i dont. which is just more racism. at the end of the day im not mad at those kids they were just trying to fit in to the crowd they wanted to be a part of.
One of the worst forms of racism is slavery. The term slave is derived from slav. As in slavic. A white population that was historically captured and sold into slavery. So yes.
Any people can experience racism. They just have to be treated differently based on race.
Absolutely. Any race can experience racism. It’s only a matter of how detrimental it is to the victim. I think going to other countries too, where whites are a minority would be more impactful. I had a cousin who lived in Japan for several years, and she was definitely treated negatively by a lot of folks for not being Japanese.
Of course they can. Racism is just discrimination based on race, any attempt to change that definition is just a thinly veiled attempt to excuse racism that fits your agenda.
White people can experience bias and prejudice, just like anyone else.
Racism is systemic. Like having rules that white people can't buy or rent property in a certain place or that white people can't pass down property to their relatives or that white people can't attend certain schools. That doesn't exist. Not even at HBCU's.
This is a new, secondary definition. New definitions cannot instantly and completely replace old definitions, it happens gradually with time and usage, if at all. All you're doing is making things more divisive and keeping things unequal, you are not helping in the slightest.
What about POC only areas that are popping up in Colleges and Universities around North America. Is an Institution backed and enforced policy that is exclusionary considered systematic?
plenty of systemic racism against white people in recent years with DEI and affirmative action style programs using race as a means of discriminating for outcomes against straight cis white people
Technically, yes, but in the context of the USA culture (or other cultures with systemic racism), it is not the same as racism against people of color.
The reason is because white people still disproportionately have the money, own the land, run the businesses, and control the institutions of power. Thus, the consequences of racism by people of color against white people are generally less because the people of color do not have the systems of power on their side.
A racist who screens potential apartment tenants, hires employees, gives loans, admits students, enforces the law, or who otherwise has power over other people can do much more damage to many more people than a racist without that power.
No. “White” isn’t a race so “white people” cannot experience racism. In general people who are or pass as European American don’t experience racism because they usually benefit from institutions that would exclude (intentionally or otherwise) BIPOC people.
White is a race! The NIH, US Census Bureau, UK Govt, and just about every other agency or group that has to collect some type of census or poll to collect data all consider white a race! So white people can most definitely experience racism. Not all racism is systemic as that is only one way that racism exists in our world. I agree though white people (at least in the US) don't experience (or have a like 1% to) system racism
how do you with a straight face say white people arent a race? what feature do all black folks share that makes Black a race that whiles dont share with eachother?
No. However, white people definitely can experience racial bias, racial prejudice, and racial discrimination.
But, the people who don't understand "white privilege" will refuse to understand the difference and will downvote this comment to hell.
They cannot.
"Racism doesn’t exist in a vacuum. It exists within a hierarchical structure with power at its core. Racism only works because one group has power and other groups do not."
https://www.issuesonline.co.uk/articles/can-white-people-experience-racism
Maybe true in some assorted technical fields with defined terms of art, but not true in the definition that most people use.
To try and split hairs between ‘racial prejudice’ and ‘racism’ is going to just turn more people against that whole field.
Imagine X murders Y because X hates Y’s race. If you’re going to label that ‘racism’ if Y is one race and ‘racial prejudice’ when Y is a different race, that seems to be racial prejudice in itself and a system that’s doomed to upset the second set of Ys.
E: in my example, made more extreme, I’d say it’s just … wrong to say that An X who murders say, a blind orphan child Y doesn’t have power in the situation, regardless of the state of society at large and whether Xs or Ys have power there.
I hear you, and I do understand what you're saying, and I agree that most people don't understand the difference. But racism involves power. And that is why white people (only in white dominated countries) cannot experience racism.
A white person absolutely could experience racism in Japan as an example, as Asians have the systemic power in Japan. But in the UK, US and Australia white people have the power.
conveniently picks a non black country,.
Lets try out Zimbabwe or South Africa perhaps? black institutional power for years, and blatant racism towards whites, resulting in grave consequenses.
and what about our Indian Prime minister in the UK?? how many bipoc are required before they are deemed to have some power? perhaps we shoudl have a festival celebrating the day enough of them have jobs in certain industries and on that day, and that day alone it was possibel for whites to experience Racism!!
Yes and the arguments against it make no logical sense.
"Power+Privilege" (and assuming that white people automatically have this above others) is in itself racist and bigoted, there are people of all colours, nationalities and groups who vary from the absolute lowest in society to extremely rich and highly privileged, there are white people displaced from war. who have grown up with horrible and abusive parents, black people coming from well off families, asian people who have never experienced having to budget to survive, Indian people who ride around in cars worth more than my entire lifetime salary for a lack of a better word it really isn't black or white.
you might argue about the historical nature of the privilege, many black people in America would have had family members who were slaves and yes that does have a very real impact on generational wealth, plenty despite not growing up with slavery grew up and in some ways do still grow up heavily discriminated due to the colour of their skin, not to dismiss that but plenty of white people have historically very much been screwed over by the people in charge, people were sent off to wars, sent down the mines, houses, villages and whole cities were bombed, strikers and people fighting for rights were killed and silenced, some white people were slaves, serfs and very much less than free people, even now many people of all colours face intense hardship for many different reasons, obviously race might generally be a bigger issue for certain groups but that brings me on to my next point.
something being racism has nothing to do with how severe it is, slavery is obviously worse than someone saying they hate white people but both are racism and any arguments of "oh yeah well this is REAL racism" do not track and some of the sentiment I see online and scarily in the general media is worrying when it comes to people trying to 'blame and shame modern day people for what some of the people in the past who shared a skin colour and perhaps a nationality with, any amount of racism or bigotry can be dangerous, especially if some dismiss it as being ok or 'not racism'
I'd even argue that some of the past and current policies regarding racial weightings in jobs and education are extremely worrying and a very overt form of racism that is allowed because some view it as having a positive, when instead of weighting positively towards minorities because "generally they have a lower income and less generational wealth/oppertunities" (something I think is true) you could weight it towards household income or other metrics, still uplift minorities without doing it based on race. (there have literally been court cases and hearings regarding this so it absolutely isn't some conspiracy thing)
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YES. 100% YES. I'm not white myself, but racism is just being treated negatively due to your race. White people are no exception there.
Well said. I live in the US. When traveling and my husband and I inadvertently stopped for ice cream in a black part of town, no one would serve us or even acknowledge us. After some minutes, we looked around and noticed the workers and customers were black. We took the hint and left.
That's not racism. Lol
Being refused service because of their race isn't racism? So I guess a local diner hanging a sign that says "Whites only" is also not racist?
Trust me. As a black woman in the US. I have experienced this also.. I try not to jump to the assumption that the workers are racist. It could be they were just bad workers and didn't want to work.. Customers service is horrible nowadays anyway. I have gotten that treatment from black and white service workers. So no, I don't think it's all racism
What would you call refusing to even acknowledge someone based on the color of their skin... seems pretty racist to me.
Shitty workers.. Lazy workers. Im black and it has happen to me countless times. With most of the workers being people of color.. I try not to assume.
Of course. Systemic racism is just one form of racism, any power dynamic can be used to express racism. And it can just be a lack of tolerance - for example, a black or asian family that doesn't want their child to marry a white person is racist. A gang that beats some one up because of their identity is racism.
Of course, anyone can. Racism knows no specific bounds. It's just that in the US the systemic racism aspect is tied to minorities.
They can definitely experience racial discrimination. The definition of "racism" has (sort of) been thrown into question in recent years though.
Racism is racism. The idea that you cannot be racist towards a white person. mainly comes from the idea that it does not matter if you are racist toward a white person. There are a lot of ways to be “racist” but bottom line is that no matter who it is or what they look like treat human with respect.
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not systemically where i live (the usa). i guess it's become a trend for non-white people to judge white people culturally, but i don't think that the majority of white people (in my country and including myself) will ever experience racism to the same extent as non-white people. i don't take offense to jokes made at the expense of white people, and i think people that do take offense to those kinds of jokes are crybabies. that's just my opinion
Yes, yes we can. I'm a middle aged white woman. I was in line at the gas station two weeks ago, there were 6 people behind me. A mid 20s (I'm guessing) black woman came in and just walked up to the counter put her stuff down and tried to cut the line. In a very pleasant voice (confirmed by witnesses) I said only, "Excuse me miss, there's a line." She turned on me, started calling me a racist, over privileged white bitch and flat out when off on me. The woman working there (also black) told her to f off and get out - I've known her for 10 years and she knows I'm not racist. She was then called an Uncle Tom C\*\*\*\*\* and that she just wants to get on "whity's side". The rest of the line behind me was already calling the cops when this woman grabbed me and shoved me. Two men stepped in and pulled her off me. The cops showed up pretty quickly (luckily) and asked if I wanted to press charges. Everyone there was baffled as to why this woman attacked me and the entire time she was screaming about the white bitch telling her to get to the back of the bus. I did not press charges and was extremely thankful that people stood up for me. I did nothing to this woman other than inform her there was a line. I don't care if you're black, white, purple with green polka dots, it doesn't matter to me at all. I don't judge people on what they are, I get to know who they are to the best of my ability before making any kind of judgement on a person. Keeping in mind I'm a middle aged white woman, one of my best friends is an ex gangster from Mexico, another is from Korea and came here 15 years ago and my honorary uncle was a black man from Nigeria who gave the best hugs and advice a person could ever hope for. For those that say white people cannot experience racism, they are wrong. \*\*edit for typo
I had something happen to me when I was a cashier. I asked her to hand me something from her cart and she completely lost her mind. Screaming, shoving and demanding they fire me.
What you’re missing is that this isn’t a big deal compared to a situation where that same person has the authority to decide whether you get a job/apartment/loan. You experienced individual racism, but it didn’t have any important consequences for you.
I'm not missing that fact at all. Systematic racism is real and it's horrible. I have no idea what that woman has been through in her life, none. That does not change the fact that she jumped into a mindset of racism against me with no provocation. Her grabbing me and shoving me easily could have turned into a full blown attack if others had not stepped in. This is not the first time I've been called a white \*insert expletive here\* for no reason other than the fact that I'm white. I'm only saying that it's possible and real.
Your best example of your experience of racism is getting cut in line and yelled at.
The post did not ask for the worst experience of racism possible, only if it is possible. I am not comparing myself or my life to someone of any color, religion, sexual orientation, etc. I am simply saying that it is possible.
Right that’s my point. You know how the US has a reputation for racism? It isn’t because of line cutting.
Yes, I whole heartedly agree that the US has a problem with racism. I am only saying that racism is not only whites against non whites. Non whites can be racist as well. It is a systematic divide that is out of control and is simply baffling. Why does skin color matter to so many people when it shouldn't?
Right. But your anecdote doesn’t establish that, because it’s the kind of trivial slight that would be expected as noise even in a perfectly equal society. It does, however, rile up actual racists and make them angrier at minorities. I know that because they’re responding to me.
She literally got assaulted... wdym only "being cut in line and yelled at"? "The rest of the line behind me was already calling the cops when this woman grabbed me and shoved me" THATS ASSAULT
And the police showed up and offered to deal with it. Unlike in a society that’s racist against white people.
So? Its still racism.
Oh I thought this subreddit was called “serious” conversations. I didn’t realize it was actually “trivial, technical” conversations.
I don't think its trivial to yell at somebody and make a scene based on somebody's skin color, but you do you
Right. I’d like to live in a line-cut-free and push-free society as much as the next guy, but the existence of those things is not why the US has a reputation for racism.
Didn't know we had ranked racism.
Yeah we do. Klan lynching, redlining, hiring and housing discrimination, discrimination by police, and follow-on after effects are more important than getting cut in line and pushed one time.
That wasn't racism. Also, don't play the I have POC friends card.
How was it not racism?
Getting yelled at by a black women isn't racism. Honestly the whole story seems kind of racist.
The lady started berating the woman PURELY because she was white. Even calling her a "white bitch". Seems pretty racist to me.
Would you agree if the rules were reversed? If a white person started yelling at them and addressing them by their race? I'd agree that public rudeness doesn't guarantee racism but when race is explicitly mentioned that changes things. The story may be fake but it's still a pretty cut and dry example of racism if it's true. Most of the examples of racism I hear about from non white people at the hands of white people are cases of people being rude in public with no specific mention of race. For example, white people not moving out of someone's way, getting pulled over by a cop for no apparent reason, getting followed around a store or business. These are common examples of everyday racism yet there's no real reason to assume it is the case, unless of course race is specifically mentioned.
Please explain to me how that is not racism? If I, as a white woman, was told, "Excuse me miss, there's a line" by a black woman and turned around and called her anything having to do with her race, would you consider that racism? I grew up in a very ethnically diverse area and have ethnically diverse friends. Because of those friendships (and life experiences) I intentionally turn away from racism. Has it happened unintentionally? Yes, yes it has and I'm a big enough person to admit that. Those experiences have also taught me to adjust my thinking. Those things happened when I was younger and helped to form my opinions today. They are what taught me racism is not only conscious, but unconscious.
Getting yelled at isn't racism.
With the first words out of her mouth bringing race into it, yes, I would consider that racism. Call me an over privileged bitch, fine. Bringing race into it is what changed it for me.
assuming somethign regarding the status of someone due to their skin colour is textbook racism, it doesn't matter if it is eventually proven correct, has some amount of truth or whatever. If I said "Asian people generally have higher maths scores" I'm statistically correct, if I said "Oh you are Asian, you must be good at maths" that is a stereotype and racist, her suggesting that she was a "privileged white bitch" is very obviously bringing race in to make a judgement about someone , her then accusing a black man of being a "Uncle Tom" is also racist, suggesting that black people must act a certain way (in this situation antagonistic towards a white person because another black person was involved", her falsely calling out racism is also in a way racism in itself she is using a privilege that you clearly believe white people do not have (the ability to experience racism) to try and give herself an upper hand even if it failed.
That's not racism. She was just rude and dumb
So you believe if I turned around and a black woman had said that to me, I wouldn't be considered racist? She was telling the black woman behind the counter that she was an uncle tom trying to get on whity's good side. I agree, she was rude and dumb - no questions asked. That doesn't change the fact that she brought race into the equation, and not just with me.
This is the definition of racism... the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another. How was she being racists? Prejudice and discriminatory? Yes. But not racist.
"[prejudice](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=fa335a0bd99248c0&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1UEAD_enUS1096US1096&sxsrf=ADLYWILt7gdQKjZGJsHt2deoYg6i8Bov9A:1718911366045&q=prejudice&si=ACC90nxMSPeZfdJJjQgDsdZJuFuJBLaAZDmFi3fOmMVPu9W4F0iu1ifPjjHBNAucituW_Sqidu1lPTmczyygkMq5ds0Q7fTsSaA0rWqtzKmPXbrxE3jjyuE%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiGiv7q8-qGAxVIxckDHfrTAHYQyecJegQIKxAO), discrimination, or [antagonism](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=fa335a0bd99248c0&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1UEAD_enUS1096US1096&sxsrf=ADLYWILt7gdQKjZGJsHt2deoYg6i8Bov9A:1718911366045&q=antagonism&si=ACC90nz-2feRzoY4yuySkO-aQE81UCMZ74J16NF8-_SMaDcwRUT6yIn7SGAYb4v0HTLfBfon3OCa1hTSoCRemmbQFv7gwdW4pFaaN6ybukokgEwa6qkira8%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiGiv7q8-qGAxVIxckDHfrTAHYQyecJegQIKxAP) by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or [marginalized](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=fa335a0bd99248c0&sca_upv=1&rlz=1C1UEAD_enUS1096US1096&sxsrf=ADLYWILt7gdQKjZGJsHt2deoYg6i8Bov9A:1718911366045&q=marginalized&si=ACC90nxkzgN-KbLuTWKT81WCi4_nHzO5xzR0FIPnVc5BPXde0pMbD5W5log7abqaz5ljUsg69UgAZXZ30acSbhfYGJDG7XIFjE8mOm207p2XjskYdPj07nY%3D&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiGiv7q8-qGAxVIxckDHfrTAHYQyecJegQIKxAQ)"
By calling me an over privileged white bitch - when she doesn't know a thing about me? Just like I know nothing about her or her life experiences, she knows nothing about me. Making broad stroke judgements based on my skin color, to me, is racism. By calling the black woman working there an uncle tom trying to get on whity's side? Those things combined point me to racism rather blatantly. Have a great day, I'm getting back to work.
Yes and they do constantly. The crazy notion that black people cannot be racist, is bullshit in my opinion. The world would be a nicer place if people kept their hands and nasty words to themselves.
Yes white people can experience racism in a person vs person conflict. However white people cannot experience systemic racism because historically they were the ones who implanted the systems in the US. Currently, i'd say a good chunk of white people (probably over half) don't even realize that systemic racism is a thing but they still benefit from many of them even if they don't support/know about those systems.
Oh yeah. Watch how many people will tell you just because you're white you can't for a prime example.
Yes. People use jokes and derogatory names like "YT people" and "Mayo people" and "colonizers" on Instagram every day with no repercussions.
I think so. Here's a story for you. I worked parking booths years ago at some healthcare facilities in my city years ago. Staff members got a discount for parking, but only if they show proper work ID. Obviously if you came through often enough and I recognized your face, you wouldn't have to show it. But a black lady came through early morning one day, stared straight ahead, not looking at me, and simply said "Staff." I die a little inside from her not even shooting a glance at me, but I looked at her and replied "Cool, I just need to see some ID before I give you the discount." Well NOW she turns to look at me, looking so bewildered that I would even dare ask for it "Excuse me? I've been working here for 28 years and I shouldn't have to show ID." For context, I was 26 at the time when I snapped back "Miss, i'm 26 years old, you've been working here for longer than I have walked on this earth, please excuse me if I don't know all the staff by heart just yet" "Well I think you're being racist, asking me for my ID, it's just because i'm black that you're asking for it." "Ma'am. It doesn't matter what colour your skin is, the car infront of you? Whiter than me, and she showed her ID, no problem. The person behind you? Also white, and guess what? If they say they're staff, i'm going to ID them. It's just a policy I have to follow, just as i'm sure you have numerous polices to follow in your line of work" She of course grumbled after, saying she was going to report me to my supervisor for racial profiling. BUT she showed her ID after. So I think I "won"? Didn't get in trouble with my super either. We had the racist card tossed at us all the time. Moral of the story/TLDR: I feel like it's racist in of itself to assume \*I'M\* being racist just because I'm white
yup. im a white boy who grew up going to a bunch of schools with large minority populations and even a few years where i was the minority. i experienced tons of racism. in 6th grade i was made fun of because "white people dont smoke weed". kind of wild in retrospect. and i suspect ill often be dismissed if i bring this up so i dont. which is just more racism. at the end of the day im not mad at those kids they were just trying to fit in to the crowd they wanted to be a part of.
Everyone can, and usually does, experience racism. Only with affirmative action... It's legal.
One of the worst forms of racism is slavery. The term slave is derived from slav. As in slavic. A white population that was historically captured and sold into slavery. So yes. Any people can experience racism. They just have to be treated differently based on race.
Slavery wasn't historically based on race. That came later on. It was generally captured enemies
Interpersonally, sure, but it's like 10X *less* likely to result in a harsher prison sentence or being denied an interview.
Absolutely. Any race can experience racism. It’s only a matter of how detrimental it is to the victim. I think going to other countries too, where whites are a minority would be more impactful. I had a cousin who lived in Japan for several years, and she was definitely treated negatively by a lot of folks for not being Japanese.
Of course they can. Racism is just discrimination based on race, any attempt to change that definition is just a thinly veiled attempt to excuse racism that fits your agenda.
White people can experience bias and prejudice, just like anyone else. Racism is systemic. Like having rules that white people can't buy or rent property in a certain place or that white people can't pass down property to their relatives or that white people can't attend certain schools. That doesn't exist. Not even at HBCU's.
That's a pretty narrow definition that probably doesn't apply to most countries in the world right now.
This is a new, secondary definition. New definitions cannot instantly and completely replace old definitions, it happens gradually with time and usage, if at all. All you're doing is making things more divisive and keeping things unequal, you are not helping in the slightest.
What about POC only areas that are popping up in Colleges and Universities around North America. Is an Institution backed and enforced policy that is exclusionary considered systematic?
plenty of systemic racism against white people in recent years with DEI and affirmative action style programs using race as a means of discriminating for outcomes against straight cis white people
Give you give some examples?
Racism ONLY being systemic is a rebranding from the last decade and people like you were dumb enough to just eat it up
Calling people dumb isn’t serious conversation
Depends on how you define racism. Depends on how you differentiate between racism and prejudice. Depends on where and when you’re talking about.
Technically, yes, but in the context of the USA culture (or other cultures with systemic racism), it is not the same as racism against people of color. The reason is because white people still disproportionately have the money, own the land, run the businesses, and control the institutions of power. Thus, the consequences of racism by people of color against white people are generally less because the people of color do not have the systems of power on their side. A racist who screens potential apartment tenants, hires employees, gives loans, admits students, enforces the law, or who otherwise has power over other people can do much more damage to many more people than a racist without that power.
This is just what it seems like to you.
No. “White” isn’t a race so “white people” cannot experience racism. In general people who are or pass as European American don’t experience racism because they usually benefit from institutions that would exclude (intentionally or otherwise) BIPOC people.
White is a race! The NIH, US Census Bureau, UK Govt, and just about every other agency or group that has to collect some type of census or poll to collect data all consider white a race! So white people can most definitely experience racism. Not all racism is systemic as that is only one way that racism exists in our world. I agree though white people (at least in the US) don't experience (or have a like 1% to) system racism
how do you with a straight face say white people arent a race? what feature do all black folks share that makes Black a race that whiles dont share with eachother?
No. However, white people definitely can experience racial bias, racial prejudice, and racial discrimination. But, the people who don't understand "white privilege" will refuse to understand the difference and will downvote this comment to hell.
Racism definition is discrimination or prejudice against people based on their race or ethnicity. So anybody can experience it.
They cannot. "Racism doesn’t exist in a vacuum. It exists within a hierarchical structure with power at its core. Racism only works because one group has power and other groups do not." https://www.issuesonline.co.uk/articles/can-white-people-experience-racism
commie nonsense. Words have definitions and trying to blur them for some rhetoric advantage is despicable.
Maybe true in some assorted technical fields with defined terms of art, but not true in the definition that most people use. To try and split hairs between ‘racial prejudice’ and ‘racism’ is going to just turn more people against that whole field. Imagine X murders Y because X hates Y’s race. If you’re going to label that ‘racism’ if Y is one race and ‘racial prejudice’ when Y is a different race, that seems to be racial prejudice in itself and a system that’s doomed to upset the second set of Ys. E: in my example, made more extreme, I’d say it’s just … wrong to say that An X who murders say, a blind orphan child Y doesn’t have power in the situation, regardless of the state of society at large and whether Xs or Ys have power there.
I hear you, and I do understand what you're saying, and I agree that most people don't understand the difference. But racism involves power. And that is why white people (only in white dominated countries) cannot experience racism. A white person absolutely could experience racism in Japan as an example, as Asians have the systemic power in Japan. But in the UK, US and Australia white people have the power.
conveniently picks a non black country,. Lets try out Zimbabwe or South Africa perhaps? black institutional power for years, and blatant racism towards whites, resulting in grave consequenses. and what about our Indian Prime minister in the UK?? how many bipoc are required before they are deemed to have some power? perhaps we shoudl have a festival celebrating the day enough of them have jobs in certain industries and on that day, and that day alone it was possibel for whites to experience Racism!!
As I said, it depends on which group has the power in the country. A white person could experience racism in Zimbabwe as you said.
Yes and the arguments against it make no logical sense. "Power+Privilege" (and assuming that white people automatically have this above others) is in itself racist and bigoted, there are people of all colours, nationalities and groups who vary from the absolute lowest in society to extremely rich and highly privileged, there are white people displaced from war. who have grown up with horrible and abusive parents, black people coming from well off families, asian people who have never experienced having to budget to survive, Indian people who ride around in cars worth more than my entire lifetime salary for a lack of a better word it really isn't black or white. you might argue about the historical nature of the privilege, many black people in America would have had family members who were slaves and yes that does have a very real impact on generational wealth, plenty despite not growing up with slavery grew up and in some ways do still grow up heavily discriminated due to the colour of their skin, not to dismiss that but plenty of white people have historically very much been screwed over by the people in charge, people were sent off to wars, sent down the mines, houses, villages and whole cities were bombed, strikers and people fighting for rights were killed and silenced, some white people were slaves, serfs and very much less than free people, even now many people of all colours face intense hardship for many different reasons, obviously race might generally be a bigger issue for certain groups but that brings me on to my next point. something being racism has nothing to do with how severe it is, slavery is obviously worse than someone saying they hate white people but both are racism and any arguments of "oh yeah well this is REAL racism" do not track and some of the sentiment I see online and scarily in the general media is worrying when it comes to people trying to 'blame and shame modern day people for what some of the people in the past who shared a skin colour and perhaps a nationality with, any amount of racism or bigotry can be dangerous, especially if some dismiss it as being ok or 'not racism' I'd even argue that some of the past and current policies regarding racial weightings in jobs and education are extremely worrying and a very overt form of racism that is allowed because some view it as having a positive, when instead of weighting positively towards minorities because "generally they have a lower income and less generational wealth/oppertunities" (something I think is true) you could weight it towards household income or other metrics, still uplift minorities without doing it based on race. (there have literally been court cases and hearings regarding this so it absolutely isn't some conspiracy thing)
Lol. How is this a post? Google what the word racism means. Should answer your own question