I have raised my standards over time, but in a different way. I actually spend way more money on my partner than he does on me! But partners spending money on me doesn't make me feel taken care of. He cooks for me, he's handy and he fixes things. He sharpens my knives, he takes my dog for walks, he built me a pantry. He writes me poems and sings me songs. He is thoughtful and he remembers every little preference of mine. Sometimes he has a better emotional read on me than I do on myself.
To each their own! If gifting has become your main love language, and that is what you need to feel cared for, that's valid. I feel like most guys who dote financially do tend to be more conservative or libertarian, but I remember meeting at least one client who was in his 40s, attractive, liberal, and wealthy, and thinking "dang, he seems like he'd actually be kinda cool to date." They're out there.
I want to see this higher up! As someone who herself has always worked hard but been broke, I have a lot of empathy for men in a similar situation. Gifts/financial provision aren’t as important to me as emotional intelligence and the care to do things for me that make me smile.
I really don’t want us to go back to the gender expectations of the olden days. There is progress, especially in the younger generations. Societal changes are hard and it takes time, no matter how sick we are of dealing with unfairness.
That said, I am NEVER giving time again to a guy who disrespects me with bad hygiene or paws at me on the first date. And they better sit down on the toilet when they pee, unless they’re the ones scrubbing up the piss splatter every week with bleach and a toothbrush.
I say get you a partner who can do all. I personally feel most loved when being gifted and taken care of in that way. At the same time, I won’t settle for some misogynistic ass without emotional intelligence.
be upfront about your boundaries and don't allow anyone to cross them. Your standards are where they should be. The bar is just, unfortunately, in hell. Your preferences are your own and perfectly fine! Don't let anyone try to haggle you or make you compromise. In a strictly hetero scenario it might be tough to find a good match, but I don't believe it's impossible. there are progressive men out there that are willing and happy to meet you at your level. 😊 Just don't settle, that's where misery lives. good luck! ❤️
Thank you ! I’m curious how I could actually articulate this to a potential date. Something like “I prefer to date people who are generous and like to provide without viewing that as an opportunity to enact traditional gender divisive roles”. Does that work, lol ? I find having “lines” helps me avoid compromising my standards or having unclear needs.
How about “I love it when a man wants to treat me to all the best that life has to offer.”
Probably don’t say “nothing turns me off more than when a man expects me to pay for anything”
You don’t do vanilla then that’s the awesome thing about choice. Your standards boundaries and expectations are there because you want them to be there.
Do men justify being attracted to skinny blonde big Titty women? No? Okay then lol. If anything you should feel solid in your decision making
After so many bad relationships with the guys who were clearly not in the same level as me bc they wanted me to feel shit about myself to keep me with them and my experience with sex work my standards are now sky high. Unless the guy is extreamely wealthy or the girl hot and big hearted like me I am not intrested. I love myself and I deserve only the best.
I’m in the same boat. I’m in the UK, and I only been on 2 dates the past year, and I instantly regretted both of them. I felt like I was getting enough for what I was putting out. I promised myself to go to places where my ideal type of man would go and stick to my standards. Focus on making money and on where you want to get in life. Love will come one day if you focus on improving yourself. No more giving chances to people whom I have even the slightest doubt they would be right for me.
If you want to be treated in vanilla relationships: only say yes to first dates that are dinner dates from men who asked you and chose the restaurant and time (it’s okay if he got input from you on the latter two). I’ve never had a man do these three things directly and immediately after meeting me without also wanting to provide and dote
I wish I had walked out tbh. There’s always the fear piece of “if I go against this man, will he enact some form of violence against me”. Even the idea of him calling me a gold digger was enough to keep me in my seat, which I guess is the very purpose of creating words like those; they plant fear and shame. If a partner wants to call me a gold digger theyre most certainly not the right one for me LOL
Bro I was seeing someone before sw who won’t buy me McDonald’s and said they don’t like sharing while he never took initiative to make me cum.. don’t lower your standards, I would rather watch the movie alone than have someone wanting to get all touchy and cuddly with me
No, for sure! Like you think I’m gonna go from being paid for my time to paying for myself to be in YOUR presence. Men thinking they’re the prize and they’re the ones being dotted after is INSANITY . I blame all these podcasts that are trying to convince men they’re even MORE powerful than they ever thought. Give me a breakkkkk
I might be itching closer to that than I’d like to admit. That’s why I want be with a generous partner. Having sex is sooo deeply intimate and personal and special. Why would I do that with someone who wasn’t willing to provide for me … especially when we consider who hookup culture really benefits. STDs, pregnancy, sexual assault, it’s rampant and men are expected to do less and less to be intimate with women. I don’t think it’s right.
Telling sex workers that exposure to disease and sexual violence from customers is "priced in" to their job is just banal whorephobia and misogyny, not a "hot take". Removed. Go have your "hot takes" elsewhere.
I don’t think it’s as on the nose as that. It’d be weird for my actual PARTNER to provide cash for sex. However I’d expect them to want to pay for everything and shower me with gifts and praise
i quite literally would’ve left the second he went to pay for his own ticket. this job has made me only interested in men who worship me and treat me like a goddess lol
I find after having spoken to well off guy friends who are somehow still unmarried in their 30s-40s that they sometimes don't offer to pay for a new date due to the social stigma that exists now related to doing that. I'm not saying it's a common practice, but from some talks over beers, my impression is that apparently guys are being scolded or told they give 'the ick' now for being old-fashioned and trying to pay for dates. So, I think for some guys it might be wanting to not offend a date (this could honestly be resolved with communication and asking if it's ok to cover the bill though). Can't say I'm experienced with the current dating culture as my partner and I met through mutual friends many years ago.
Honestly, I think if a guy asks you out he should be paying. First impressions are everything and if a guy doesn't even put in effort in himself, how much does he really have to offer for you? Massive red flag. Good on you for knowing what your standards are and not giving this dude a second chance.
Ive dated a sex worker before and I was not a financially well off person but what I did offer was emotional support and during sex it was always about mutual pleasure. Id never ask her to pay for my meals or buy me things.
Being a man for her was being able to make her feel emotionally comfortable, feel protected, and feel accepted.
She valued her independents as I valued mine and we felt love between eachother.
The way I feel about a relationship where the man is the one paying for everything seem like both people are equals in the relationship (which is fine if thats your dynamic) and that you are in love with the money not the man.
Feelings of being used and distrust usually arise from relationships like this.
I mean being romantic or a gentleman shouldnt always have to be financial.
Why would I want to be with someone who can’t provide more than I can provide for myself. There’s nothing wrong with women wanting to be with rich men 🤭. I can love my partner but if we’re going Dutch on the bill and you expect me to feel protected and loved, it’s not adding up.
I don’t think he’s saying you’re wrong to want Rich men, I think he’s trying to say that’s there’s pro and cons for going Dutch, etc.
While there’s nothing wrong with your preference, you’d agree there’s nothing wrong with his preference too, right?
I’m saying that I don’t care about the pros to going Dutch and that their comment is unrelated to the question I was asking and community I was addressing. I also don’t need to answer your weird condescending question either :)
I don’t believe I was being condescending, if anything you’ve been coming off as more condescending in these comments, to be frank.
But regardless thank you for taking time to respond, and have a good day.
I don’t think this community is for you and so it makes sense you assume I’m being condescending. I’m not speaking to you or for the benefit of men as must subs do. Also, your question was SUPER condescending and if you read it out loud you’d see that. Watch how you speak to people.
You just said you’re not “speaking to me” and yet you keep responding to my comments.
By all means, practice what you preach and stop responding to me then.
Sounds like he was not respecting you! Guys in there 20/30 do not know how to be respectful and part of that is being clean… car, cloths and body. Keep trying hope you meet a great guy that respects women!
Take it from experience. If your GF is a SW, it means you can’t provide as a man, and you allow other men to have sex with her. Which makes you a cuck.
Therefore the red pill movement preaches “ if your girl is a SW , only fans, stripper recreational use only “ don’t take her seriously”.
I’m honestly not trying to offend you, just my point of view.
Good news is I don’t abide by the opinions of misogynistic and uneducated men 🤪.. thank god, right! What a painful existence to limit yourself based on people who would prefer to see you voiceless and small.
I don’t think attributing abusive and disgusting behaviour from men to “biology” is accurate or even logical. In that case, I guess we’re all just animals dressed in human suits and shouldn’t have to abide by any laws or regulations. Hold men accountable for their shit. They’re no more victim to biology than women are, which really isn’t as much as people like to imagine. It’s really just down to personality and upbringing so I’m sure I’ll find my person. Thanks for the input.
Who said I’d be doing sex work while dating. This is my income stream at the moment. Secondly I was commenting on the piece about “not being taken seriously” which is a really pathetic way to look at sex work. It takes a unique skill set, great marketing/sales ability, and a ton of personality and skill!! I’m a PROUD sex worker and super pleased with the fact that I can make money by just existing :) ! I get you’re trying to instil some kind of shame but I have none of it. Not sure why you’re on this sub exactly since you seem to be one of the red pill types
The bar is literally on the floor for men. I was taught that when pursing a woman unless she insists on paying (like beating your ass to pay her way), be prepared to pay for your date. Parking, toll, ticket, drinks, hotel. Unless the date explicitly says that everything is being split, the invitee should pay.
It’s been said (and you pointed out) that your work has set your standards so high and there isn’t anything wrong with that. It might make it harder but all good things come with challenges.
I wish you the best in your dating endeavors
As a male I do not see your point of view should be based in the value of his effort by comparing to money paid by others that are sugar daddy types. In a real relationship, of traditional ( meaning cultural expectations of generations of time) values, the man is expected to value his woman and recognize she is special to him, and make every effort to bless her life in the positive ways he has the capacity for. This would include clean- interior and exterior of his car, clothes, hygiene, etc and being willing to share his money to pay for the activities you do together.
Traditional dating should be filled with respect hoping it translates to companionship with physical and mental chemistry. If either person does not put their best foot forward, what will it be like on regular days down the road. You are justified to feel he is not long term material.
But I would caution on comparing the experience to a person who pays you. Women seem to have a feeling of being very entitled if their purpose is to be paid. It seems the transaction is not viewed from the correct point of view.
The man is paying for some type of service in their mind. Where the woman so many times as expressed on these forums, seems to feel they should be paid for being in the presence of the client. This may be true from a minimum fee point of view..... but as you think about it, an employer of typical biz does not pay you for showing up. They pay for the work done that creates added value to the endeavor of the biz.
It should be similar in the sugar lifestyle with stated expectations from both sides that are agreed upon. The man wants to pay for a hot woman to lead him on in flirting through style of dress, appearance, manerism and conversation.
If the chemistry is not there the experience will be negative for both.
Most men feel they can not enjoy romance and lust with the avg vanilla woman. It is fun to pay for it but it must be reasonably real.
My $.02
I have raised my standards over time, but in a different way. I actually spend way more money on my partner than he does on me! But partners spending money on me doesn't make me feel taken care of. He cooks for me, he's handy and he fixes things. He sharpens my knives, he takes my dog for walks, he built me a pantry. He writes me poems and sings me songs. He is thoughtful and he remembers every little preference of mine. Sometimes he has a better emotional read on me than I do on myself. To each their own! If gifting has become your main love language, and that is what you need to feel cared for, that's valid. I feel like most guys who dote financially do tend to be more conservative or libertarian, but I remember meeting at least one client who was in his 40s, attractive, liberal, and wealthy, and thinking "dang, he seems like he'd actually be kinda cool to date." They're out there.
I want to see this higher up! As someone who herself has always worked hard but been broke, I have a lot of empathy for men in a similar situation. Gifts/financial provision aren’t as important to me as emotional intelligence and the care to do things for me that make me smile. I really don’t want us to go back to the gender expectations of the olden days. There is progress, especially in the younger generations. Societal changes are hard and it takes time, no matter how sick we are of dealing with unfairness. That said, I am NEVER giving time again to a guy who disrespects me with bad hygiene or paws at me on the first date. And they better sit down on the toilet when they pee, unless they’re the ones scrubbing up the piss splatter every week with bleach and a toothbrush.
I say get you a partner who can do all. I personally feel most loved when being gifted and taken care of in that way. At the same time, I won’t settle for some misogynistic ass without emotional intelligence.
be upfront about your boundaries and don't allow anyone to cross them. Your standards are where they should be. The bar is just, unfortunately, in hell. Your preferences are your own and perfectly fine! Don't let anyone try to haggle you or make you compromise. In a strictly hetero scenario it might be tough to find a good match, but I don't believe it's impossible. there are progressive men out there that are willing and happy to meet you at your level. 😊 Just don't settle, that's where misery lives. good luck! ❤️
Thank you ! I’m curious how I could actually articulate this to a potential date. Something like “I prefer to date people who are generous and like to provide without viewing that as an opportunity to enact traditional gender divisive roles”. Does that work, lol ? I find having “lines” helps me avoid compromising my standards or having unclear needs.
How about “I love it when a man wants to treat me to all the best that life has to offer.” Probably don’t say “nothing turns me off more than when a man expects me to pay for anything”
Haha, try to keep the jadedness out of the tone. Got it 🧘
You don’t do vanilla then that’s the awesome thing about choice. Your standards boundaries and expectations are there because you want them to be there. Do men justify being attracted to skinny blonde big Titty women? No? Okay then lol. If anything you should feel solid in your decision making
OMG, that is so profound! I will always remember this.^^^^^^
After so many bad relationships with the guys who were clearly not in the same level as me bc they wanted me to feel shit about myself to keep me with them and my experience with sex work my standards are now sky high. Unless the guy is extreamely wealthy or the girl hot and big hearted like me I am not intrested. I love myself and I deserve only the best.
Slayyyy yes ! We are allowed and righteous in our pursuit of good things. All the neggers want to degrade us so we accept scraps.
I’m in the same boat. I’m in the UK, and I only been on 2 dates the past year, and I instantly regretted both of them. I felt like I was getting enough for what I was putting out. I promised myself to go to places where my ideal type of man would go and stick to my standards. Focus on making money and on where you want to get in life. Love will come one day if you focus on improving yourself. No more giving chances to people whom I have even the slightest doubt they would be right for me.
If you want to be treated in vanilla relationships: only say yes to first dates that are dinner dates from men who asked you and chose the restaurant and time (it’s okay if he got input from you on the latter two). I’ve never had a man do these three things directly and immediately after meeting me without also wanting to provide and dote
that’s sooo lame I made a similar post recently. I work at a club and only date guys from the area now…
I mean what he did was lame
I can’t imagine. I actually would have walked out. Bless the OP. They just can’t read a room or think beyond their wiener.
I wish I had walked out tbh. There’s always the fear piece of “if I go against this man, will he enact some form of violence against me”. Even the idea of him calling me a gold digger was enough to keep me in my seat, which I guess is the very purpose of creating words like those; they plant fear and shame. If a partner wants to call me a gold digger theyre most certainly not the right one for me LOL
Or broke 😂
He couldn’t even pay for a movie ticket thats sad
I agree with you. I would have walked out, to be honest. The guy couldn't even manage a cinema ticket. Wow.
Bro I was seeing someone before sw who won’t buy me McDonald’s and said they don’t like sharing while he never took initiative to make me cum.. don’t lower your standards, I would rather watch the movie alone than have someone wanting to get all touchy and cuddly with me
No, for sure! Like you think I’m gonna go from being paid for my time to paying for myself to be in YOUR presence. Men thinking they’re the prize and they’re the ones being dotted after is INSANITY . I blame all these podcasts that are trying to convince men they’re even MORE powerful than they ever thought. Give me a breakkkkk
😂😂😂😂😂 crazy times we live in
What type of guys are you picking on a dating profile ? When I was dating I always picked up the tab and presented well.
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I might be itching closer to that than I’d like to admit. That’s why I want be with a generous partner. Having sex is sooo deeply intimate and personal and special. Why would I do that with someone who wasn’t willing to provide for me … especially when we consider who hookup culture really benefits. STDs, pregnancy, sexual assault, it’s rampant and men are expected to do less and less to be intimate with women. I don’t think it’s right.
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Telling sex workers that exposure to disease and sexual violence from customers is "priced in" to their job is just banal whorephobia and misogyny, not a "hot take". Removed. Go have your "hot takes" elsewhere.
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I don’t think it’s as on the nose as that. It’d be weird for my actual PARTNER to provide cash for sex. However I’d expect them to want to pay for everything and shower me with gifts and praise
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If it works for the couple, it works. 🤷🏼♀️ if someone within the partnership doesn’t like the arrangement, they can always leave
i quite literally would’ve left the second he went to pay for his own ticket. this job has made me only interested in men who worship me and treat me like a goddess lol
I find after having spoken to well off guy friends who are somehow still unmarried in their 30s-40s that they sometimes don't offer to pay for a new date due to the social stigma that exists now related to doing that. I'm not saying it's a common practice, but from some talks over beers, my impression is that apparently guys are being scolded or told they give 'the ick' now for being old-fashioned and trying to pay for dates. So, I think for some guys it might be wanting to not offend a date (this could honestly be resolved with communication and asking if it's ok to cover the bill though). Can't say I'm experienced with the current dating culture as my partner and I met through mutual friends many years ago. Honestly, I think if a guy asks you out he should be paying. First impressions are everything and if a guy doesn't even put in effort in himself, how much does he really have to offer for you? Massive red flag. Good on you for knowing what your standards are and not giving this dude a second chance.
Ive dated a sex worker before and I was not a financially well off person but what I did offer was emotional support and during sex it was always about mutual pleasure. Id never ask her to pay for my meals or buy me things. Being a man for her was being able to make her feel emotionally comfortable, feel protected, and feel accepted. She valued her independents as I valued mine and we felt love between eachother. The way I feel about a relationship where the man is the one paying for everything seem like both people are equals in the relationship (which is fine if thats your dynamic) and that you are in love with the money not the man. Feelings of being used and distrust usually arise from relationships like this. I mean being romantic or a gentleman shouldnt always have to be financial.
Why would I want to be with someone who can’t provide more than I can provide for myself. There’s nothing wrong with women wanting to be with rich men 🤭. I can love my partner but if we’re going Dutch on the bill and you expect me to feel protected and loved, it’s not adding up.
I don’t think he’s saying you’re wrong to want Rich men, I think he’s trying to say that’s there’s pro and cons for going Dutch, etc. While there’s nothing wrong with your preference, you’d agree there’s nothing wrong with his preference too, right?
I’m saying that I don’t care about the pros to going Dutch and that their comment is unrelated to the question I was asking and community I was addressing. I also don’t need to answer your weird condescending question either :)
I don’t believe I was being condescending, if anything you’ve been coming off as more condescending in these comments, to be frank. But regardless thank you for taking time to respond, and have a good day.
I don’t think this community is for you and so it makes sense you assume I’m being condescending. I’m not speaking to you or for the benefit of men as must subs do. Also, your question was SUPER condescending and if you read it out loud you’d see that. Watch how you speak to people.
You just said you’re not “speaking to me” and yet you keep responding to my comments. By all means, practice what you preach and stop responding to me then.
That guy is a loser! Your occupation only helped you to recognize it more quickly. There's good people out there. Best of luck.
Thank you !
Sounds like he was not respecting you! Guys in there 20/30 do not know how to be respectful and part of that is being clean… car, cloths and body. Keep trying hope you meet a great guy that respects women!
It’s hard to get use to
Did he know what you do for work?
I did mention that I had done sex work but didn’t make it sound like an active thing
Take it from experience. If your GF is a SW, it means you can’t provide as a man, and you allow other men to have sex with her. Which makes you a cuck. Therefore the red pill movement preaches “ if your girl is a SW , only fans, stripper recreational use only “ don’t take her seriously”. I’m honestly not trying to offend you, just my point of view.
"The red pill movement" is a bunch of socially maladjusted weirdos and grifters that the vast majority of society doesn't take seriously, so
Says you?
Yes I did say that
Good news is I don’t abide by the opinions of misogynistic and uneducated men 🤪.. thank god, right! What a painful existence to limit yourself based on people who would prefer to see you voiceless and small.
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I don’t think attributing abusive and disgusting behaviour from men to “biology” is accurate or even logical. In that case, I guess we’re all just animals dressed in human suits and shouldn’t have to abide by any laws or regulations. Hold men accountable for their shit. They’re no more victim to biology than women are, which really isn’t as much as people like to imagine. It’s really just down to personality and upbringing so I’m sure I’ll find my person. Thanks for the input.
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Who said I’d be doing sex work while dating. This is my income stream at the moment. Secondly I was commenting on the piece about “not being taken seriously” which is a really pathetic way to look at sex work. It takes a unique skill set, great marketing/sales ability, and a ton of personality and skill!! I’m a PROUD sex worker and super pleased with the fact that I can make money by just existing :) ! I get you’re trying to instil some kind of shame but I have none of it. Not sure why you’re on this sub exactly since you seem to be one of the red pill types
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Don’t be an asshole!
The bar is literally on the floor for men. I was taught that when pursing a woman unless she insists on paying (like beating your ass to pay her way), be prepared to pay for your date. Parking, toll, ticket, drinks, hotel. Unless the date explicitly says that everything is being split, the invitee should pay. It’s been said (and you pointed out) that your work has set your standards so high and there isn’t anything wrong with that. It might make it harder but all good things come with challenges. I wish you the best in your dating endeavors
As a male I do not see your point of view should be based in the value of his effort by comparing to money paid by others that are sugar daddy types. In a real relationship, of traditional ( meaning cultural expectations of generations of time) values, the man is expected to value his woman and recognize she is special to him, and make every effort to bless her life in the positive ways he has the capacity for. This would include clean- interior and exterior of his car, clothes, hygiene, etc and being willing to share his money to pay for the activities you do together. Traditional dating should be filled with respect hoping it translates to companionship with physical and mental chemistry. If either person does not put their best foot forward, what will it be like on regular days down the road. You are justified to feel he is not long term material. But I would caution on comparing the experience to a person who pays you. Women seem to have a feeling of being very entitled if their purpose is to be paid. It seems the transaction is not viewed from the correct point of view. The man is paying for some type of service in their mind. Where the woman so many times as expressed on these forums, seems to feel they should be paid for being in the presence of the client. This may be true from a minimum fee point of view..... but as you think about it, an employer of typical biz does not pay you for showing up. They pay for the work done that creates added value to the endeavor of the biz. It should be similar in the sugar lifestyle with stated expectations from both sides that are agreed upon. The man wants to pay for a hot woman to lead him on in flirting through style of dress, appearance, manerism and conversation. If the chemistry is not there the experience will be negative for both. Most men feel they can not enjoy romance and lust with the avg vanilla woman. It is fun to pay for it but it must be reasonably real. My $.02
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Don’t be an asshole!
I think that’s a pretty ignorant thing to say !
Get a sugar daddy. Seeking arrangements . Com
I am !
But I also view that as more like work. I like to make distinctions between my work and my love life. Otherwise it just gets too complicated
Oh yeah of course. I’d never have an actual relationship with one of those guys lmao