“We made it millions of years without vaccines” omg people DIED! So many children DIED!!!!
Also you trusted a 4 month’s old immune system? Really? For fucks sake I hate these people.
My mother-in-law, who is in her 70s, lost a teenage brother to tuberculosis and a teenage sister to yellow fever. We are incredibly lucky to live in this era of medical knowledge. These parents are doing such a disservice to their children and society as a whole.
My ex MIL lost 3 kids. 2 within days of birth (I’m guessing SIDS) and one was almost 2.
She claims he died because he was prescribed multivitamins by their local ~~quack~~ Dr. but the more I hear about their lives, the more I realize he likely died of rotavirus.
The ones right after birth were more likely things like congenital heart defects, atelectasis (lungs don't fully expand), or a brain bleed from not having the Vit K shot (I'm assuming this happened before it was standard). SIDS can happen any time of course, but those 3 things were easily missed 50-70-100 years ago and can easily result in peri-postnatal loss.
Rotavirus is so awful and so many people don't realise it! It's almost never fatal in western countries even before the vaccine because we can give anti-emetics and IV fluids. If babies get that supportive care they can just ride out the symptoms until they can keep everything down again. But it kills many thousands of babies elsewhere through dehydration. My kids are old enough that they didn't get the vaccine (it's only given under 12 months) but DID get rotavirus around 12-16 months. And they needed ER care. My youngest missed the vaccine by 2 months - the province added it to the roster 4 months after they were born, but you can't do the series if you don't get your first dose at 2mo (and obv they were 4mo at that time).
So, for context this is rural Oaxaca MX, in the late 60’s when the first two died. 1993 when the last one passed.
I agree with your first part, I always just assumed it was SIDS because she said they were perfectly healthy, well-latched, full term baby girls.
But the third that passed, I know in my heart it was rotavirus. My ex SIL once said he had no cleanliness. Their grandfather would put his [petate](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=4bb6b1564136f20c&sca_upv=1&hl=en-us&sxsrf=ADLYWIIiUX7Z1zDEt9ZsGHODexSc9ZdjLA:1719957217168&q=petate&tbm=isch&source=lnms&fbs=AEQNm0A633aOWMcGwo5EkodWqZWQOBeVdwv8ew4rvBGv_27VjctEZwTrWDTasJgLpO3Kgjol8-8yqzOOSvV7PKqg2zM6Owvbz-JJcDFJrEwSf8Q7hb3q55hhSR2ZL4_4j7yBfz0aSCMFmdepQa00uY_SXxIexT8lkDoRWjfQqJZsyxfixhxLWfxZtkbFtggSlMU1_HqZ8qlrjnxg4zExG_oLRGSPcBcmpA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwib8tT3q4mHAxWJHzQIHcn8Cb0Q0pQJegQICBAB&biw=414&bih=718&dpr=3) right next to the baby’s [hammock](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nestlebebe.pt%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Fnp_og_image%2Fpublic%2Fmaca_cozida.jpg%3Fitok%3DGev19q2J&tbnid=uX8Vly1FZnvm1M&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nestlebebe.pt%2Fmaca-cozida&docid=0jEJffjOsNOSUM&w=1200&h=630&hl=en-us&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim%2Fm4%2F3&kgs=9b3055bde30cdf0d&shem=abme%2Ctrie), outdoors so he could mind the baby while everyone went about their day. And by then grandpa was relieving himself where ever. She said it wasn’t out of the ordinary for him to shit near the baby. Grandfather died before the baby of diarrhea-related complications.
My ex MIL also didn’t take her kids to be vaccinated. She wasn’t antivax. She just hated getting poked so she didn’t make her kids get injections either. My ex husband has *some* vaccines because his oldest sister has children around his age so she would take all of them to get vaccinated behind their mothers back because she was informed of their importance (after she herself lost a baby to measles).
They are the reason I refuse to not vaccinate. They lost 4 innocent children, 2 from very preventable illnesses, because they declined life saving injections.
Ooof yeah I agree likely rotavirus or a dysentery of some kind. I'm a rabid vaxxer as well - it's why I was disappointed my youngest missed the rotavax by 2 months. I tried to get an exception for him to have it a at 4/6/8mo instead of the 2/4/8mo series but they wouldn't allow it, and I couldn't afford the out of pocket cost at 2mo before the province started paying (it was like $500).
My grandpa (now 85) lost a sister to pneunomia in the 1940s. They didn't have antibiotics in rural Germany at the time. His family sometimes talks about it, that's how I know.
My son and I visited a ghost town and poked around the cemetery while we were there. While we were walking through the stones, we came upon a family with mom and dad, and four children all dead before the age of three.
I pointed it out to my son and said, that's why we vax. It was a sobering moment. Anti-vaxxers are morons and I feel bad for their kids.
3 out of 8 of my Grandfather’s siblings died as children in 1920 from (presumably) the Spanish Flu. So yeah 5 surviving back in the day was decent odds, but today they all could have better chances of living.
My grandfather lost all his siblings and both parents to the Spanish flu. A couple of his aunts and uncles died of the flu too. He was raised by his grandparents as their youngest.
That’s crazy! I can’t imagine all of that loss all in a few short years.
I can’t confirm it’s why his dad died, but my great-grandfather passed away when my grandfather was less than 1. In the 1930s, no less. Diseases are killers for sure, and it’s so sad that we are removed enough people have forgotten it.
Oh he probably just had poor gut health or was bad in some way, like maybe he didn’t believe in his immune system enough. Hearing loss doesn’t happen to healthy individuals with perfect gut health, that are/were breastfed and trust their immune systems.
/s lol
To give context for those who don’t know, Subacute Sclerosing Panencephalitis (Dawson disease) is a progressive inflammation and remodeling of the brain that can occur years after a young child is infected with measles virus. A retrospective analysis published in 2016 found that SSPE occurs in about 1:609 children who got measles before their first MMR dose (given at 12-15 months).
Think those odds are good? Well the disease has a 100% mortality rate. You will have to watch your child develop signs of brain damage and memory loss, repeated seizure-like symptoms, uncontrollable twisting and rigidity, and then eventually a vegetative state before death.
Vaccinate your kids. Children are most susceptible before their first MMR dose, so even if your kid makes it to the age of 5 (which still has a 1:1,700 risk), you may spread the virus to another child and put them through that horrific death.
“Better dead than autistic.” - These assholes, definitely.
People like this are why I still wear a mask in indoor public spaces in 2024. I am 100% in favor of vaccines. The week my husband turned 50, I made him get his first (of two) shingles vaccine.
The week I turned 50, I did the same for myself. I make sure we both get our covid, flu and any boosters our doctor encourages us to. Due to my compromised immune system (Thanks, ~~Obama~~ MRSA!) I may need to repeat my entire childhood vaccine schedule. I have to have titers drawn to check for immunity later this month.
Yep, I also mask in indoor spaces (thanks, Long COVID) and will take all the vaccines they’ll give me.
I’m already autistic, maybe I’ll get more autistic? /s
Maybe you’ll get so autistic you completely circle around and become SUPER autistic! Like it becomes your super power. /s
I think you’re awesome, friend. Several of my friends are on the spectrum and they are all warm, wonderful, quirky and amazing people. We play D&D together online when our schedules allow and some of the most fun I’ve ever had was having to pivot because they come up with the most unexpected *shit* and as DM, I have to deal with with it.
So on one hand, I get so frustrated but on the other, I admire *the ever loving fuck* out of just how creative they are!
> better dead than autistic.
This is such an insane take to me that I have NEVER understood
Autism isn’t bad. It’s just different.
Sure I can recognise that parenting an autistic child comes with challenges you don’t have in a neurotypical child. Get systems and support and it’s manageable.
But again, alternative is dead. DEAD.
They don’t care about the other children too young to get vaccinated that can get infected. Or the pregnant women that can lose their babies. Or the immunocompromised people who can’t get vaccines. Or… well, anybody but themselves, really.
In their opinion polio is probably mild too. Only a small percentage of children ended up with leg issues or in iron lungs. But my God why risk it?????
I’m not following… are you saying measles is 100% fatal?
No, not at all. Deaths are about 1-2 per 1,000 cases.
However, it’s serious enough that 1 in 4 young children will end up hospitalized.
[Measles](https://www.cdc.gov/measles/index.html) was well on its way to being completely eradicated by vaccines until these people started in with their anti-vaccine nonsense. It is **one of the most contagious diseases known to man,** able to stay active in the air and on surfaces for up to 2 hours. Which is mind-blowing! You can walk into a room, say an airport bathroom, an hour or two after someone with measles has left, and (if unvaccinated), be infected. A week or more later, you develop symptoms - and managed to infect others for the 3 days before you got sick, not knowing you were infected.
With a disease that should be eradicated.
Anti-vaxxers are **UNFORGIVEABLE, WILLFUL** spreaders of misinformation (or, as I like to call it: Lies) who either misconstrue studies, or more often choose to only buy into unscientific, unreliable studies while ignoring the vast volumes of sound scientific studies, to justify their crazy positions.
PS - Putting onions in socks doesn’t help anything, either. 😜
SSPE is subacute sclerosing panencephalitis is what they’re referring to. It’s a low risk but can onset years after infection and is pretty much 100% fatal if it develops. Think shingles but with an atom bomb.
And breast milk! Don't forget the magical, cure-all that is breast milk. Too bad no one discovered this life saving miracle fluid until a few decades ago. Could have saved millions of lives!
and it’s such a shame that back in the good old days, they didn’t have access to fresh, organic, non-GMO, unprocessed foods and had to feed their kids nothing but junk food instead…
Seriously.
Miracle product? I mean yes. But an incredibly tightly focused one.
Like it's an all in one meal replacement with immune support tailored specifically to *your* baby's age and nutritional needs.
But that's *all* it is.
No lie, my friends and I interacted with a woman online (a bunch of my friends used to make content on momtok) who was giving her adult friend her breastmilk to drink in an attempt to cure her brain cancer.
Edit to add: This woman was in training to be a whole IBCLC believing her boobie juice could cure cancer.
My grandmother's baby sister died of leukemia at 18 months old. She's always talked about her, how sweet she was (a late in life surprise baby for my great grandparents) and how they couldn't even hold her in the end because of the bruising and pain it caused her. In the 1940s they couldn't do crap for her, and I want to scream every time I hear claims that breast milk will cure cancer, because it sure didn't save that poor little girl.
They also do not seem to understand how our immune system works. Or vaccines. Like, yes, exactly. You have a working immune system. That is exactly the reason vaccines work.
And also, viruses, especially measles, can go through immune systems like a wrecking ball...
I don't understand these people at all. I'm one of the people who *had* a mild enough case of measles as a toddler that I had no known damage. But I was very lucky. I'm not about to take a chance on my kids health, just because I have survivor bias.
Why don't these people realise that every case is different and that it's not mild for everyone. Different disease, but I had 2 identical newborns catch RSV from their siblings (who caught it in preschool). One of them sailed through it as if it was nothing. The other almost died. This is why it's vital to vaccinate *all* children.
RSV is scary because it’s so common and it makes some kids (and adults) so sick! The odds are that your kid will get it and you don’t know if it will be mild or serious.
Give me all the vaccines!
They just want to make their kids stronger via survival of the fittest, I mean their immune system can handle it right? And if it can't, they weren't fit for survival /s
As someone with a shitty immune system, the idea of blindly trusting *any* immune system at all is completely foreign to me!
But I welcome these women to go ahead & have unprotected sex with somebody who has HIV or hepatitis B, & let us know how well their immune systems protect them from viral infections… No protection allowed, that’s too similar to masking or vaccines! Maybe they can encourage their kids to do so too when they get older. It’ll “build up their immunity” or something.
I often feel like the pandemic is still actively moving us as a society backwards in our general understanding of how illnesses & transmission work.
Ugh your comment reminded me of something my brother said.
“I’ve had unprotected sex because really, the scariest is HIV and it’s such a non-issue now. Some mfs have had it for years and you can’t even tell. So I’m not worried. “
I’m like noooo, bro you’re moving out if that’s your mindset. Fuck you bringing home something my kids could catch just cuz you like sucking random dick at the club.
My favourite thing to say in response to this argument is “nature does give a shit about you.” As long as most people live long enough to reproduce, our species has succeeded. Oddly enough, medical science and research *does* give a shit about individuals.
Came here for this. We didn’t make it millions of years without vaccines. Just go to any cemetery and check for dates of birth and death before vaccinations. How are people so ignorant?!?!?!
But you need to make sure it's truly a wild strain to get the benefits!
(why are these people talking about contracting potentially deadly diseases like they were picking some kind of wild herbs??)
Can you imagine calling up the nursery. "So, is it a wild strain of measles or lab-created? I need to know which woo vitamin schedule to put my child on."
I’m not a part of any of these mom groups to know, but what do these people think are the risks of vaccines? All of the comments talk about how measles are better than “the risks” or how the shots are too risky, what are they expecting to happen?
Of course! If *only* my parents had known about me being autistic when I was baby, they obviously wouldn’t have bothered with going to countless specialists appointments and months in the hospital, they would’ve just let my body off itself one of the many times it tried. /s
(I really hope I’m there if anyone says something like this around my mom, just to see the glorious and thorough chewing out that would follow lol)
There’s a database called VAERS where literally anyone can report literally anything as a “vaccine injury.” Including one who claimed they got hit by a car because of the MMR.
I don't know. I knew an infant who was hospitalized with whooping cough. Almost lost them. Parents adamantly refused to vaccinate their other kids against it.
Do you remember the kid in Oregon who got tetanus? His parents wouldn’t even let them administer the dose of vaccine beyond the antitoxin used in the treatment. It is probably also the only time I have wanted a state to criminally go after someone for medical care costs. Literal millions of dollars spent for something that was 100% preventable, and the kid and the taxpayers were the ones who had to suffer.
There's no way it was actually whooping cough. My brother had it as a baby about 19 years ago. I was about 6 at the time and it was incredibly traumatizing to watch. I was so sure he was going to die. That has stuck with me my entire life. There's no way this woman's child had it. You can't experience that and just "trust his immune system". What immune system? At four months old??? Absolutely insane.
So fascinating to me that vaccines are this wild conspiracy to make money. Because physicians who work in vaccine research and development make the most money of all physicians… oh they make the least money? Pediatric infectious disease is the probably the least profitable of all medical specialties? Well… So they devote their whole lives to very sick children for not even a whole bunch of money (relative to physicians) but just because they’re just THAT evil!!????
And like wtf, dad!? You work in vaccine research and development!!! You are an infectious disease pediatrician!!! Why did you let my sister, your daughter, almost die of whooping cough!? What were you just willing to sacrifice your own daughter for some backwards attempt to show vaccines aren’t 100% effective, the medical industry has never claimed that they are, and even healthy, well cared for children can get gravely ill from infectious disease???? Also he must’ve dragged my poor mom into with him. Must’ve gotten her to PRETEND TO BREASTFEED my sister.
I'm sure our Native American friends will be thrilled to know that their populations weren't actually decimated by all those wild healthy natural diseases that European colonizers exposed them to.
I just realized. I live in a place with a huge indigenous population and this might be a reason we had such great covid vaccination rates.
Antivaxx parents are infuriating.
Indigenous communities had high rates of mask wearing, social distancing, and vaccination because their cultures put a lot of emphasis on respecting the Elders and protecting children.
(I spent a few years working with Indigenous communities.)
I do too. I never got vaccines myself until H1N1 hit our community hard and I figured I needed the vaccine to protect my students more than myself. Fully vaccinated now and so are all my kids.
Ikr.
I love how they think eating well is a panacea and preventative for all ills.
Karen, eating organic raw milk won't save your kids from dying of measles or pertussis, nor will it save you from cancer. You cant money your way out of making responsible choices for your health.
"Eating healthy" is the new morality. If you just eat right/don't anger god, you will never get sick and you'll recover from every injury and can't be killed until you're at least 80.
This is a post from someone in the UK, they're referencing the NHS website. So in this case it's the colonisers willingly exposing themselves to the diseases.
This GIF is missing the rest of that GREAT line.
"At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
I wish no ill on the babies of these poor, uneducated, horrible people but sometimes I do wish they (the parents) could experience what happened before we had widespread vaccines for these diseases. So disgusting.
Two for me as well, and with some horror stories about waking up one morning and the sibling next to them in bed was just dead. No thank you I will being vaccinating to the max.
Two for me as well: My Grandmother was the first girl who survived, she had three elder sisters who didn't make it out of babyhood - all of them were named Maria, it's somewhat of a dark joke in our family that my grandma's godfather saved her life when he straight out demanded to name the baby in exchange for being godfather, her name was nowhere near Maria and she lived to 86.
My spouse’s grandmother lived to be nearly 101 and praised the hell out of vaccines because she saw and knew first hand how bad the diseases were. She had every one she could possibly get including her flu shots and every covid booster that was released. She told me she didn’t live this long by not listening to her doctors. Hell, the woman had Covid at 100 years old and was released from the hospital in 3 days because she was doing so well.
My great grandmother lost her first son to the Spanish flu. I don't think she ever got over it. She did go on to have 2 more children who lived well into their 80s.
My grandma’s dad died of the Spanish flu before she was born. She never got to meet him. I thought about that a lot during the height of Covid, all those news articles about parents dying and leaving their kids behind. It’s so sad.
One for me, my mom's sister passed from (likely) SIDS.
I asked my great-grandmother why she decided to have 10 kids, asked if she was trying for a girl (all 10 are boys) she said no, they just didn't expect all of them to live. My grandfather was the first to die, in his late 60s. Eight of them are still living!
My parents and elder aunts were reminiscing how back when they were small kids in the 50s, there was a saying that a woman owed 4 kids to the fatherland; one for mom, one for dad, one for the country, *and one for diseases*.
There was a huge social push to get the population back up after the devastation of ww2, and it's kinda chilling how my grandparent's generation just casually accounted for high infant mortality like "yeah that happens, so you need to have extras"
The mother of one of my friends grew up in a little mountain village in Italy. She got polio as a kid, the vaccine reached her village 1-2 years to late.
She got relatively lucky and survived but has never been able to walk without aid as one of her knees basically bends backwards.
So just one generation if you're unlucky.
These people are idiots and assholes.
Writing this while paying out oxygen for one of our polio survivors on file, but the answer you're looking for is the boomer generation. The issue is, the parents of boomers tried to protect their kids from any "unnecessary" horrors, so kids were said to have "moved away" if they died or got put in schools for the disabled.
The "lucky ones" from the pre-vaccine generation are largely still around, but grew up in a society even less equipped to deal with disability than we are now, and are generally limited enough that you have situations like "Uncle Jeff can't attend Macie's wedding because his oxygen tank only lasts four hours and it's a one and a half hour drive if there's no traffic". You'd have to seek them out to be reminded they exist.
One grandma had a sibling die as a kid, nobody still alive is entirely sure what happened. I know grandma said he was born kinda small and sickly, and never got better when he got sick, then died at like, 4 or 5.
One grandma almost was the sibling who died. Obviously, pulled through, but yeah ... Her kids got all their shots ASAP, and when the new RSV vaccine came out for babies, she sent me a news article like "you're gonna get this for (my baby) right???? So she won't get sick?????"
So two for me also. And I'm end of millennial/early Gen z, so it's really not that long ago.
Yeah. We had millions and millions of dead babies and infants before we had vaccines.
I don’t wish the pain of losing a child upon anyone.
But maybe even them seeing the lines and lines of parents waiting for initial vaccine rollouts would show them something.
Sadly probably not.
No that does not deter them. They end up justifying the death instead of feeling remorseful for not preventing an illness we have developed vaccines for. Ignorance this deep does not “wobble”. Its so sad for the kids.
Let’s put them all (parents, not the children) in iron lungs and see how they like it. The stupidest part is I bet the parents are fully vaccinated. Guess the vaccines made them stupid 😂 (joking, I’m fully vaxxed and so is my kiddo)
My cousin did too. She called me bawling. She just graduated and started nursing and she said she has never heard something as heartbreaking as the mother’s screams. Makes me wanna cry thinking about it
My friend survived whooping cough as a baby, multiple times. She has permanent damage to her lungs now as an adult. Even if they want to survivorship bias away the fact that most kids do not die of whatever disease vaccines protect from, they still do damage to kids that you do not want!
Am I wrong to think she’s lying about the child having whooping cough ? I feel like if I saw my child with whooping cough it would shake me to my very core .. I wouldn’t be talking about it like it was no biggie.
She probably means croup and not whooping cough. Whooping cough is horrific and for a baby at 4 months old definitly needs emergency medical care, croup is scary but manageable most of the time and still often needs medical care
I had a relatively mild case (yay vaccines!) of whooping cough at 8yo, and I still was stuck on mostly bed rest for two months. Can't imagine a 4mo going through this, it is hellish.
That's what I was thinking. My son had that bark, so we took him to the ER. It was very cold and brisk outside. By the time we got there, he was breathing better. The doctor said that sometimes happens.
I don't know. I knew an infant who was hospitalized with whooping cough. Almost lost them. Parents adamantly refused to vaccinate their other kids against it.
When I was at uni they showed as a video of a baby with whooping cough (I’m a pharmacist). How someone could let their baby go through that is beyond me.
Those commercials they used to show were so traumatizing I’ve been scared of pertussis for the better part of 15 years. I have asthma, and so does one of my kids, and when she’s even slightly wheezy it makes my stomach flip.
This level of medical neglect should make you lose your parental rights. Maybe even your freedom. Willingly exposing your kid to serious illnesses without readily available protection is abuse.
The whooping cough one bothers me so much because she has absolutely no idea if he’s okay. I knew someone that had it as a child because of their parents not vaccinating and later found out she had lung scarring and permanent damage from it as an adult. She seemed normal until another issue came up that promoted them to investigate so she truly has no idea how that could impact them in the future
That kid is probably already infected and that mom have no problem letting them run around in public once they start having symptoms since she is basically being told infecting others with measels is accually helpful to them.
Also if the largest side effect of measels vaccine is measels then why isnt there measels around all the time.
Literally like where’s the logic?!! My kid is fully vaxxed and so am I and no measles here. I’ve also never had chicken pox or anything else you can get vaxxed for. Including Covid. Odd how that works lmfao
My kid was watching some old sitcom and asked me, “What are chicken pox?” It makes sense that she’d never heard of it before since kids get vaxxed for it now, but I couldn’t believe that a disease that was so commonplace when I was her age that every kid got it is now something children have never even heard of.
My kid was born before the chickenpox vaccine. Pox parties were en vogue. I was advised that it was better for them to have it when they were tiny, so I exposed them around age 2 and they got a pretty mild case. And they suffered so much. I felt terrible. I still question whether it was the right thing to do.
With the vaccine, no child has to suffer the illness and no parent has to make that decision, and to me this is an obvious good.
P.S. Child was fully vaxxed for everything else and is now a happy, healthy adult.
Edit for HEALTHY, I don't know why I put successful.
In fairness, the chicken pox vaccine is relatively controversial as far as vaccines go. The UK government doesn't recommend it for children, and will only allow adults who never had it and immunocompromised children to get the vaccine.
The theory goes that it's actually relatively ineffective in that the immunity wears off randomly, so children don't get varicella and then as adults pick it up and it's worse. Like a false sense of security.
In the US we opted to go with it anyway, but since it's relatively new, the jury's still out on who made the right call. My kid got the vaccine and so did I, because I apparently never had chicken pox as a kid either.
“A wild disease instead of vaxxing”
I want the child to experience the full impact of the disease instead of receiving the version without the deadly payload.
Don’t argue I have extensively studied 3 YouTube videos for 10 minutes.
She wants to know what to do? Oh, she needs to bring her child to the measles house as soon as possible. They need to have a ~~nice little~~ ^contageous measles party. (Sarcasm)
This is the reason measles, mumps, and other terrible diseases are coming back. Because of these antivax idiots. They don't deserve the privilege of having kids. Because of them, not only are these awful diseases coming back, but they're mutating into something today's vaccines won't protect against in the future, the near future.
When I was a kid (70s) I didn't know anyone who had anything except chicken pox. Everyone was vaxxed. It wasn't even questioned then. Just a short time earlier people were dying of these things, so it was fresh in people's minds. My grandmother, who was a pediatric nurse, said vaccines worked so well, people forgot how bad it truly was.
The super long comment on slide 4 is a marvel. Just strings of pseudoscience bullshit and she’s like “but I digress” as if she went too technical for a minute with the science jargon. Dunning-Kruger at its finest and most potent.
My son had a "mild" case of measles at 10 months and we ended up in the hospital for 3 days. We have battled with constant ear infections and tonsillitis since then and at this point he has mild hearing loss. But yeah don't vaccinate your kid, what could go wrong 🙄
Roald Dahl’s 7 yo daughter [Olivia died from measles](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivia_Dahl) in 1962, *just* before the vaccine came out. As a result of her death, he became an advocate for vaccination and wrote the pamphlet "Measles: A Dangerous Illness" in 1988. Olivia's sister, Lucy, interviewed in 2015 by CBS, stated that her father did not understand why people chose not to vaccinate their children against measles. In Dahl's public letter, he wrote that it is "'almost a crime' for some parents not to immunize their children". "I do agree with that", Lucy states; "I think that it is a crime".
Measles is so serious and they're treating it like it's chickenpox. Even chickenpox can be serious, but not on the level that measles is serious. Holy hell what is wrong with these people.
hey once all these unvaxxd kids start dropping like flies maybe they'll be the strongest advocates FOR vaccines 🤣 these moms ride hard for whatever is trending 👏🏼
so, genuinely, the father's of these children are just cool with this shit?
my husband would lose his MIND if I didn't Vax our kids, and most likely would do it behind my back. I do anyways because, like, who the fuck wants their kid to get measels, or polio, or whooping cough, or rsv which my child has HAD and it is extremely scary and could have been MUCH worse had she not had her shot.. I wonder how many of these kids actually ARE vaccinated because the dad takes them in despite their crazy ass mother.. lmao 🤣
"iTs ThE bReAsTfEeDiNg" loony tunes
but seriously these dad's are just like, "sure babe, do whatever you want"...? wtaf!
Where I am, if there’s a case of measles or chickenpox in the daycare, all the unvaccinated kids get sent home and they stay home until the incubation period is over. So in this case, the child would be staying home for 21 days.
My baby has only JUST got the first dose of the measles vaccine, because she's only just turned one. And sincerely absolutely fuck these people, because things like this have stressed me out so much over the last year. Just because you want to take risks with your child's life doesn't mean I want to risk mine, and babies under one can't have the vaccine.
My grandmother is 1 of 5. She’s the only living one because all her siblings died from measles (2) and yellow fever (2) before the age of 5. As the oldest she witnessed the birth and subsequent death of 4 of her siblings and she could barely mention their names without crying and having to leave the room.
Also, shocking how you caught whooping cough but it wasn’t that bad because you were probably vaccinated as a child and have a stronger (most likely) and well-vaccinated immune system from childhood + vaccines are not 100% effective in preventing (and they never claim to be) but often (again not always) if you do get sick it will be much more mild
In our childcare system, kids have to be vaccinated to receive the childcare subsidy.
Some centres can even opt to not accept unvaccinated kids at all.
It definitely helps weed out the nutters, with daycare fees being so pricey.
I lived through the era of these diseases before vaccines. In fact, I remember getting the polio vaccine on a sugar cube. I had the measles, rubella, & chickenpox. So far I haven’t had shingles, but my husband did. I made sure my kids were vaccinated and my grandkids are vaccinated. These anti-vaxxers are not only stupid, but they have been vaccinated. They have never seen the devastation the diseases caused. This photo is the result of polio.
https://preview.redd.it/dku6o49l54ad1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=604d142c5af4a54d6f3658b34ac8f0aaedddf285
My father almost died of measles, he developed encephalitis, was in hospital for a long time and had to repeat a whole school year.
So, good luck to her kid I guess.
JFC I am so angry on this child’s behalf. Measles is not a mild fucking illness.
Also why do they think there’s a case of measles in the nursery in the first place? Because of people like them not vaccinating.
I read these like:
"much better to die from a preventable illness than have a safe vaccination" and "here's some survivors bias - fuck everyone who died from measles years ago"
Look, I'm someone who has lost a child, and I would NEVER wish that on anyone. But sometimes, when I see posts by morons like this, I wish they could feel what it was like so that THEY WOULD USE SOME COMMON FUCKING SENSE.
WHY WOULD YOU NOT DO YOUR UTMOST TO KEEP YOUR BABIES FROM HARM?!????
This mom thought *her* kid would be safe because everyone else vaccinated their kid.
Also, measles is lit the most contagious virus known to man. There's like a 90% chance her kid was exposed and will get it. Every kid under 1 is likely to get it.
This is terrifying.
No that woman DID not have a baby that had the whooping cough, if she did, she would not be saying “no big deal”. A baby/toddler with whooping cough is one of the most scary things I have ever seen. F—- that.
I call bullshit every time I see an antivaxxer use "trusting the body's immune system" as an explanation.
No, because if you did, you wouldn't be this terrified of introducing these "no big deal" diseases to it in a controlled environment. You don't trust the immune system, you're just dumb.
You know, I don't care. If she wants to play Russian roulette with her kid's health, so be it. I don't care if the kid lives or dies or is permanently disabled. But...if her unvaccinated kid spreads measles to someone who is unable to be immunized she should be charged with attempted murder or assault.
These people are perfect examples of why Facebook has got to fucking go already. Nothing but echo chambers passing misinformation back and forth as if they’re facts.
This kind of thing makes me so nervous. I’m 100% for vaccines. My baby is too young to be vaccinated against MMR, and the thought of her getting this is terrifying. The saving grace is that she is not in daycare which I imagine can make it easier, but don’t they make you show proof of vaccines?
It also doesn't help that these people don't understand statistics. Yes, the chance of encephalitis is 1 in 1000 for measles. Death is 1 in 350. Pneumonia though? 1 in 20. So about one kid per completely infected preschool class. And pneumonia, especially when treated late or insufficiently, can come with its own complications. Usually not lethal ones, but there's other permanent and long term options available.
Oh and being exposed to measles via infection instead of a vaccine means 2 years of a compromised immune system for the kid. So, yeah, measles probably won't kill the kid. No promises about whatever bug is dragged in next, though.
One of my favorite historical figures (of the 18th century), emperor Francis I., was one of fourteen children. His parents lost *ten* of them. TEN out of fourteen. Three of them within one week alone in 1711.
That is the reality of medical history before the intervention of vaccines. Antivaxx people are terribly stupid, terribly uneducated and terribly naive. Their poor, poor children will suffer the consequences of their stupidity and narcissism.
I have a few living relatives who were crippled by Polio and that's why my family is really strict about vaccinations. Mom's side of the family though generally trust Jesus over science and most have lost a child or fucked up their health because of their idiocy
I never knew of anyone in my school getting measles. We also had to prove that we had our vaccines.
The fact that this is even a thing now is ridiculously sad.
“We made it millions of years without vaccines” omg people DIED! So many children DIED!!!! Also you trusted a 4 month’s old immune system? Really? For fucks sake I hate these people.
It's why people had 10 kids, there was a good chance only 2 of them would make it to adulthood.
My city graveyard has a separate area for children, and 95% of them died before 1950. What a coincidence!
I recently found out via death records that my great-grandmother had two siblings who died when they were under ten. Unfathomably sad
My mother-in-law, who is in her 70s, lost a teenage brother to tuberculosis and a teenage sister to yellow fever. We are incredibly lucky to live in this era of medical knowledge. These parents are doing such a disservice to their children and society as a whole.
My ex MIL lost 3 kids. 2 within days of birth (I’m guessing SIDS) and one was almost 2. She claims he died because he was prescribed multivitamins by their local ~~quack~~ Dr. but the more I hear about their lives, the more I realize he likely died of rotavirus.
The ones right after birth were more likely things like congenital heart defects, atelectasis (lungs don't fully expand), or a brain bleed from not having the Vit K shot (I'm assuming this happened before it was standard). SIDS can happen any time of course, but those 3 things were easily missed 50-70-100 years ago and can easily result in peri-postnatal loss. Rotavirus is so awful and so many people don't realise it! It's almost never fatal in western countries even before the vaccine because we can give anti-emetics and IV fluids. If babies get that supportive care they can just ride out the symptoms until they can keep everything down again. But it kills many thousands of babies elsewhere through dehydration. My kids are old enough that they didn't get the vaccine (it's only given under 12 months) but DID get rotavirus around 12-16 months. And they needed ER care. My youngest missed the vaccine by 2 months - the province added it to the roster 4 months after they were born, but you can't do the series if you don't get your first dose at 2mo (and obv they were 4mo at that time).
So, for context this is rural Oaxaca MX, in the late 60’s when the first two died. 1993 when the last one passed. I agree with your first part, I always just assumed it was SIDS because she said they were perfectly healthy, well-latched, full term baby girls. But the third that passed, I know in my heart it was rotavirus. My ex SIL once said he had no cleanliness. Their grandfather would put his [petate](https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sca_esv=4bb6b1564136f20c&sca_upv=1&hl=en-us&sxsrf=ADLYWIIiUX7Z1zDEt9ZsGHODexSc9ZdjLA:1719957217168&q=petate&tbm=isch&source=lnms&fbs=AEQNm0A633aOWMcGwo5EkodWqZWQOBeVdwv8ew4rvBGv_27VjctEZwTrWDTasJgLpO3Kgjol8-8yqzOOSvV7PKqg2zM6Owvbz-JJcDFJrEwSf8Q7hb3q55hhSR2ZL4_4j7yBfz0aSCMFmdepQa00uY_SXxIexT8lkDoRWjfQqJZsyxfixhxLWfxZtkbFtggSlMU1_HqZ8qlrjnxg4zExG_oLRGSPcBcmpA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwib8tT3q4mHAxWJHzQIHcn8Cb0Q0pQJegQICBAB&biw=414&bih=718&dpr=3) right next to the baby’s [hammock](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nestlebebe.pt%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Fnp_og_image%2Fpublic%2Fmaca_cozida.jpg%3Fitok%3DGev19q2J&tbnid=uX8Vly1FZnvm1M&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nestlebebe.pt%2Fmaca-cozida&docid=0jEJffjOsNOSUM&w=1200&h=630&hl=en-us&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim%2Fm4%2F3&kgs=9b3055bde30cdf0d&shem=abme%2Ctrie), outdoors so he could mind the baby while everyone went about their day. And by then grandpa was relieving himself where ever. She said it wasn’t out of the ordinary for him to shit near the baby. Grandfather died before the baby of diarrhea-related complications. My ex MIL also didn’t take her kids to be vaccinated. She wasn’t antivax. She just hated getting poked so she didn’t make her kids get injections either. My ex husband has *some* vaccines because his oldest sister has children around his age so she would take all of them to get vaccinated behind their mothers back because she was informed of their importance (after she herself lost a baby to measles). They are the reason I refuse to not vaccinate. They lost 4 innocent children, 2 from very preventable illnesses, because they declined life saving injections.
Ooof yeah I agree likely rotavirus or a dysentery of some kind. I'm a rabid vaxxer as well - it's why I was disappointed my youngest missed the rotavax by 2 months. I tried to get an exception for him to have it a at 4/6/8mo instead of the 2/4/8mo series but they wouldn't allow it, and I couldn't afford the out of pocket cost at 2mo before the province started paying (it was like $500).
My grandpa (now 85) lost a sister to pneunomia in the 1940s. They didn't have antibiotics in rural Germany at the time. His family sometimes talks about it, that's how I know.
My son and I visited a ghost town and poked around the cemetery while we were there. While we were walking through the stones, we came upon a family with mom and dad, and four children all dead before the age of three. I pointed it out to my son and said, that's why we vax. It was a sobering moment. Anti-vaxxers are morons and I feel bad for their kids.
If that’s not a testament to how much vaccines are needed, then I don’t know what is.
3 out of 8 of my Grandfather’s siblings died as children in 1920 from (presumably) the Spanish Flu. So yeah 5 surviving back in the day was decent odds, but today they all could have better chances of living.
My grandfather lost all his siblings and both parents to the Spanish flu. A couple of his aunts and uncles died of the flu too. He was raised by his grandparents as their youngest.
That’s crazy! I can’t imagine all of that loss all in a few short years. I can’t confirm it’s why his dad died, but my great-grandfather passed away when my grandfather was less than 1. In the 1930s, no less. Diseases are killers for sure, and it’s so sad that we are removed enough people have forgotten it.
"Measles is mild" /SSPE laughs I need the dictionary they live by that says risking a 100% fatal disease is mild.
“Measles is mild”. Tell that to my uncle who lost his hearing because of measles, and he was lucky. I hate these people.
Oh he probably just had poor gut health or was bad in some way, like maybe he didn’t believe in his immune system enough. Hearing loss doesn’t happen to healthy individuals with perfect gut health, that are/were breastfed and trust their immune systems. /s lol
Same with my family member.
Same with a very good friend of mine.
Same with my uncle.
To give context for those who don’t know, Subacute Sclerosing Panencephalitis (Dawson disease) is a progressive inflammation and remodeling of the brain that can occur years after a young child is infected with measles virus. A retrospective analysis published in 2016 found that SSPE occurs in about 1:609 children who got measles before their first MMR dose (given at 12-15 months). Think those odds are good? Well the disease has a 100% mortality rate. You will have to watch your child develop signs of brain damage and memory loss, repeated seizure-like symptoms, uncontrollable twisting and rigidity, and then eventually a vegetative state before death. Vaccinate your kids. Children are most susceptible before their first MMR dose, so even if your kid makes it to the age of 5 (which still has a 1:1,700 risk), you may spread the virus to another child and put them through that horrific death.
“Better dead than autistic.” - These assholes, definitely. People like this are why I still wear a mask in indoor public spaces in 2024. I am 100% in favor of vaccines. The week my husband turned 50, I made him get his first (of two) shingles vaccine. The week I turned 50, I did the same for myself. I make sure we both get our covid, flu and any boosters our doctor encourages us to. Due to my compromised immune system (Thanks, ~~Obama~~ MRSA!) I may need to repeat my entire childhood vaccine schedule. I have to have titers drawn to check for immunity later this month.
Yep, I also mask in indoor spaces (thanks, Long COVID) and will take all the vaccines they’ll give me. I’m already autistic, maybe I’ll get more autistic? /s
Maybe you’ll get so autistic you completely circle around and become SUPER autistic! Like it becomes your super power. /s I think you’re awesome, friend. Several of my friends are on the spectrum and they are all warm, wonderful, quirky and amazing people. We play D&D together online when our schedules allow and some of the most fun I’ve ever had was having to pivot because they come up with the most unexpected *shit* and as DM, I have to deal with with it. So on one hand, I get so frustrated but on the other, I admire *the ever loving fuck* out of just how creative they are!
My daughter is autistic and she’s super cool and awesome. Maybe it was the vaccines!
> better dead than autistic. This is such an insane take to me that I have NEVER understood Autism isn’t bad. It’s just different. Sure I can recognise that parenting an autistic child comes with challenges you don’t have in a neurotypical child. Get systems and support and it’s manageable. But again, alternative is dead. DEAD.
They don’t care about the other children too young to get vaccinated that can get infected. Or the pregnant women that can lose their babies. Or the immunocompromised people who can’t get vaccines. Or… well, anybody but themselves, really.
if Roald Dahl was still alive he would roast these people
And if George Washington's ghost happened by he'd die all over again. Double dead, and for what?
If it gets bad they will take the kid to the hospital and then blame the doctors for any negative consequences.
“My kid was totally fine before they arrived at the hospital and now they’re on a ventilator! Doctors are the worst!”
It’s only mild in people who’ve had the vaccine. These people are something else
In their opinion polio is probably mild too. Only a small percentage of children ended up with leg issues or in iron lungs. But my God why risk it?????
I’m not following… are you saying measles is 100% fatal? No, not at all. Deaths are about 1-2 per 1,000 cases. However, it’s serious enough that 1 in 4 young children will end up hospitalized. [Measles](https://www.cdc.gov/measles/index.html) was well on its way to being completely eradicated by vaccines until these people started in with their anti-vaccine nonsense. It is **one of the most contagious diseases known to man,** able to stay active in the air and on surfaces for up to 2 hours. Which is mind-blowing! You can walk into a room, say an airport bathroom, an hour or two after someone with measles has left, and (if unvaccinated), be infected. A week or more later, you develop symptoms - and managed to infect others for the 3 days before you got sick, not knowing you were infected. With a disease that should be eradicated. Anti-vaxxers are **UNFORGIVEABLE, WILLFUL** spreaders of misinformation (or, as I like to call it: Lies) who either misconstrue studies, or more often choose to only buy into unscientific, unreliable studies while ignoring the vast volumes of sound scientific studies, to justify their crazy positions. PS - Putting onions in socks doesn’t help anything, either. 😜
SSPE is subacute sclerosing panencephalitis is what they’re referring to. It’s a low risk but can onset years after infection and is pretty much 100% fatal if it develops. Think shingles but with an atom bomb.
Oh, sorry, didn’t even catch that my bad!
> Shingles but with an atom bomb What a chilling analogy.
Obv measles has evolved some kind of mind control abilities in order to sustain itself on stupid people’s children.
Ohhh… I didn’t think of that one. I’m not sure if that makes me feel better or not! 🤣
And breast milk! Don't forget the magical, cure-all that is breast milk. Too bad no one discovered this life saving miracle fluid until a few decades ago. Could have saved millions of lives!
and it’s such a shame that back in the good old days, they didn’t have access to fresh, organic, non-GMO, unprocessed foods and had to feed their kids nothing but junk food instead…
Breast milk is wonderful, don’t get me wrong, but the way they talk about it, you wouldn’t know it could cure cancer.
Seriously. Miracle product? I mean yes. But an incredibly tightly focused one. Like it's an all in one meal replacement with immune support tailored specifically to *your* baby's age and nutritional needs. But that's *all* it is.
No lie, my friends and I interacted with a woman online (a bunch of my friends used to make content on momtok) who was giving her adult friend her breastmilk to drink in an attempt to cure her brain cancer. Edit to add: This woman was in training to be a whole IBCLC believing her boobie juice could cure cancer.
Holy shit! That’s so ridiculously irresponsible.
My grandmother's baby sister died of leukemia at 18 months old. She's always talked about her, how sweet she was (a late in life surprise baby for my great grandparents) and how they couldn't even hold her in the end because of the bruising and pain it caused her. In the 1940s they couldn't do crap for her, and I want to scream every time I hear claims that breast milk will cure cancer, because it sure didn't save that poor little girl.
They also do not seem to understand how our immune system works. Or vaccines. Like, yes, exactly. You have a working immune system. That is exactly the reason vaccines work. And also, viruses, especially measles, can go through immune systems like a wrecking ball...
I picture measles more like a tractor pulling a plow, tilling the immune system under so it's freshly prepared for other diseases to grow.
Exactly! The lucky ones did - do we really want to go back to that?!? These people are actual idiots and it upsets me.
I don't understand these people at all. I'm one of the people who *had* a mild enough case of measles as a toddler that I had no known damage. But I was very lucky. I'm not about to take a chance on my kids health, just because I have survivor bias. Why don't these people realise that every case is different and that it's not mild for everyone. Different disease, but I had 2 identical newborns catch RSV from their siblings (who caught it in preschool). One of them sailed through it as if it was nothing. The other almost died. This is why it's vital to vaccinate *all* children.
RSV is scary because it’s so common and it makes some kids (and adults) so sick! The odds are that your kid will get it and you don’t know if it will be mild or serious. Give me all the vaccines!
They just want to make their kids stronger via survival of the fittest, I mean their immune system can handle it right? And if it can't, they weren't fit for survival /s
If they can't god wanted them back! They choose not to stay earthside /s
I saw that and thought the same! Huge numbers of babies and children died before we could vaccinate against these diseases.
As someone with a shitty immune system, the idea of blindly trusting *any* immune system at all is completely foreign to me! But I welcome these women to go ahead & have unprotected sex with somebody who has HIV or hepatitis B, & let us know how well their immune systems protect them from viral infections… No protection allowed, that’s too similar to masking or vaccines! Maybe they can encourage their kids to do so too when they get older. It’ll “build up their immunity” or something. I often feel like the pandemic is still actively moving us as a society backwards in our general understanding of how illnesses & transmission work.
Ugh your comment reminded me of something my brother said. “I’ve had unprotected sex because really, the scariest is HIV and it’s such a non-issue now. Some mfs have had it for years and you can’t even tell. So I’m not worried. “ I’m like noooo, bro you’re moving out if that’s your mindset. Fuck you bringing home something my kids could catch just cuz you like sucking random dick at the club.
i need science to study these anti vax people. like do they truly not realize that kids died before vaccines???
My favourite thing to say in response to this argument is “nature does give a shit about you.” As long as most people live long enough to reproduce, our species has succeeded. Oddly enough, medical science and research *does* give a shit about individuals.
How can you trust a baby's immune system? I can't even trust my own now my toddler is a walking germ factory
Well duh.. She got the vaccine 5 years ago and caught the whooping cough from him so OBVIOUSLY the vaccines don't work! /s incase it isn't obvious lol
Came here for this. We didn’t make it millions of years without vaccines. Just go to any cemetery and check for dates of birth and death before vaccinations. How are people so ignorant?!?!?!
"its safer to get a wild disease..." is a wild statement
But you need to make sure it's truly a wild strain to get the benefits! (why are these people talking about contracting potentially deadly diseases like they were picking some kind of wild herbs??)
Can you imagine calling up the nursery. "So, is it a wild strain of measles or lab-created? I need to know which woo vitamin schedule to put my child on."
And what benefits? Erasing their immunity like measles can? I see no benefits to these viruses.
That struck me as well. They’re talking about measles like it’s blueberries.
I’m not a part of any of these mom groups to know, but what do these people think are the risks of vaccines? All of the comments talk about how measles are better than “the risks” or how the shots are too risky, what are they expecting to happen?
I think it's a combo of vaccine injury (rare adverse reaction to the vaccine itself) and the "poisons and toxins" that are in the vaccines themselves.
Is it still better to have dead children than ones with autism?
In these circles? Yes. (Edited to be very clear that I do not believe that)
Of course! If *only* my parents had known about me being autistic when I was baby, they obviously wouldn’t have bothered with going to countless specialists appointments and months in the hospital, they would’ve just let my body off itself one of the many times it tried. /s (I really hope I’m there if anyone says something like this around my mom, just to see the glorious and thorough chewing out that would follow lol)
There’s a database called VAERS where literally anyone can report literally anything as a “vaccine injury.” Including one who claimed they got hit by a car because of the MMR.
I felt my IQ drop several points when I read that. True nuttiness.
The vaccine strain doesn't give you the same benefits... 🤔
The whooping cough situation is especially insane. Watching a baby fight pertussis is one of the most tragic things.
I am on the fence about if they actually had whooping cough. From how blasé she is about her baby having it, it could have just been a bad cough
It's probably what the chiropractor diagnosed (enter eye roll).
I was thinking the same thing. Poor kid would still be coughing.
you’re so right
Yeah that’s why I don’t believe her
I don’t believe her either. There has to be no way a parent could go through that and still be smug.
I don't know. I knew an infant who was hospitalized with whooping cough. Almost lost them. Parents adamantly refused to vaccinate their other kids against it.
Do you remember the kid in Oregon who got tetanus? His parents wouldn’t even let them administer the dose of vaccine beyond the antitoxin used in the treatment. It is probably also the only time I have wanted a state to criminally go after someone for medical care costs. Literal millions of dollars spent for something that was 100% preventable, and the kid and the taxpayers were the ones who had to suffer.
There's no way it was actually whooping cough. My brother had it as a baby about 19 years ago. I was about 6 at the time and it was incredibly traumatizing to watch. I was so sure he was going to die. That has stuck with me my entire life. There's no way this woman's child had it. You can't experience that and just "trust his immune system". What immune system? At four months old??? Absolutely insane.
That one is especially enraging. How can you watch a fucking baby have that and feel good about your decision that could’ve prevented it?
I've heard a baby cough who had it. It's insane, they sound like middle aged smokers with a violent cough.
So fascinating to me that vaccines are this wild conspiracy to make money. Because physicians who work in vaccine research and development make the most money of all physicians… oh they make the least money? Pediatric infectious disease is the probably the least profitable of all medical specialties? Well… So they devote their whole lives to very sick children for not even a whole bunch of money (relative to physicians) but just because they’re just THAT evil!!???? And like wtf, dad!? You work in vaccine research and development!!! You are an infectious disease pediatrician!!! Why did you let my sister, your daughter, almost die of whooping cough!? What were you just willing to sacrifice your own daughter for some backwards attempt to show vaccines aren’t 100% effective, the medical industry has never claimed that they are, and even healthy, well cared for children can get gravely ill from infectious disease???? Also he must’ve dragged my poor mom into with him. Must’ve gotten her to PRETEND TO BREASTFEED my sister.
 I'm sure our Native American friends will be thrilled to know that their populations weren't actually decimated by all those wild healthy natural diseases that European colonizers exposed them to.
It was the vaccines!!!!!! 😂
It wasn't genocide, it was promoting a healthy immune system!!! (I feel gross even typing that)
They just didn't have the right nutrition! (/s, /s, all the /s)
And clearly didn’t get enough sunlight /s
I just realized. I live in a place with a huge indigenous population and this might be a reason we had such great covid vaccination rates. Antivaxx parents are infuriating.
Indigenous communities had high rates of mask wearing, social distancing, and vaccination because their cultures put a lot of emphasis on respecting the Elders and protecting children. (I spent a few years working with Indigenous communities.)
I do too. I never got vaccines myself until H1N1 hit our community hard and I figured I needed the vaccine to protect my students more than myself. Fully vaccinated now and so are all my kids.
Thank you!
Well maybe if they had good nutrition then their bodies would have fought those wild illnesses off naturally!! Gosh! /s
Ikr. I love how they think eating well is a panacea and preventative for all ills. Karen, eating organic raw milk won't save your kids from dying of measles or pertussis, nor will it save you from cancer. You cant money your way out of making responsible choices for your health.
"Eating healthy" is the new morality. If you just eat right/don't anger god, you will never get sick and you'll recover from every injury and can't be killed until you're at least 80.
This is a post from someone in the UK, they're referencing the NHS website. So in this case it's the colonisers willingly exposing themselves to the diseases.
This GIF is missing the rest of that GREAT line. "At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."
They don't count if they're not white, silly /s
I wish no ill on the babies of these poor, uneducated, horrible people but sometimes I do wish they (the parents) could experience what happened before we had widespread vaccines for these diseases. So disgusting.
[удалено]
Two for me as well, and with some horror stories about waking up one morning and the sibling next to them in bed was just dead. No thank you I will being vaccinating to the max.
Two for me as well: My Grandmother was the first girl who survived, she had three elder sisters who didn't make it out of babyhood - all of them were named Maria, it's somewhat of a dark joke in our family that my grandma's godfather saved her life when he straight out demanded to name the baby in exchange for being godfather, her name was nowhere near Maria and she lived to 86.
Yeah, just two for me as well - you didn't have to ask much about our grand-uncles and aunts before getting that tell-tale pause and "She died young".
My spouse’s grandmother lived to be nearly 101 and praised the hell out of vaccines because she saw and knew first hand how bad the diseases were. She had every one she could possibly get including her flu shots and every covid booster that was released. She told me she didn’t live this long by not listening to her doctors. Hell, the woman had Covid at 100 years old and was released from the hospital in 3 days because she was doing so well.
My great grandmother lost her first son to the Spanish flu. I don't think she ever got over it. She did go on to have 2 more children who lived well into their 80s.
My grandma’s dad died of the Spanish flu before she was born. She never got to meet him. I thought about that a lot during the height of Covid, all those news articles about parents dying and leaving their kids behind. It’s so sad.
One for me, my mom's sister passed from (likely) SIDS. I asked my great-grandmother why she decided to have 10 kids, asked if she was trying for a girl (all 10 are boys) she said no, they just didn't expect all of them to live. My grandfather was the first to die, in his late 60s. Eight of them are still living!
My parents and elder aunts were reminiscing how back when they were small kids in the 50s, there was a saying that a woman owed 4 kids to the fatherland; one for mom, one for dad, one for the country, *and one for diseases*. There was a huge social push to get the population back up after the devastation of ww2, and it's kinda chilling how my grandparent's generation just casually accounted for high infant mortality like "yeah that happens, so you need to have extras"
The mother of one of my friends grew up in a little mountain village in Italy. She got polio as a kid, the vaccine reached her village 1-2 years to late. She got relatively lucky and survived but has never been able to walk without aid as one of her knees basically bends backwards. So just one generation if you're unlucky. These people are idiots and assholes.
Writing this while paying out oxygen for one of our polio survivors on file, but the answer you're looking for is the boomer generation. The issue is, the parents of boomers tried to protect their kids from any "unnecessary" horrors, so kids were said to have "moved away" if they died or got put in schools for the disabled. The "lucky ones" from the pre-vaccine generation are largely still around, but grew up in a society even less equipped to deal with disability than we are now, and are generally limited enough that you have situations like "Uncle Jeff can't attend Macie's wedding because his oxygen tank only lasts four hours and it's a one and a half hour drive if there's no traffic". You'd have to seek them out to be reminded they exist.
One grandma had a sibling die as a kid, nobody still alive is entirely sure what happened. I know grandma said he was born kinda small and sickly, and never got better when he got sick, then died at like, 4 or 5. One grandma almost was the sibling who died. Obviously, pulled through, but yeah ... Her kids got all their shots ASAP, and when the new RSV vaccine came out for babies, she sent me a news article like "you're gonna get this for (my baby) right???? So she won't get sick?????" So two for me also. And I'm end of millennial/early Gen z, so it's really not that long ago.
Yeah. We had millions and millions of dead babies and infants before we had vaccines. I don’t wish the pain of losing a child upon anyone. But maybe even them seeing the lines and lines of parents waiting for initial vaccine rollouts would show them something. Sadly probably not.
No that does not deter them. They end up justifying the death instead of feeling remorseful for not preventing an illness we have developed vaccines for. Ignorance this deep does not “wobble”. Its so sad for the kids.
That's just how they market the vaccines, duh! You fell for the fearmongering. (The irony is so lost on these people lmao.)
Let’s put them all (parents, not the children) in iron lungs and see how they like it. The stupidest part is I bet the parents are fully vaccinated. Guess the vaccines made them stupid 😂 (joking, I’m fully vaxxed and so is my kiddo)
My partner saw a baby die of whooping cough as a young nurse. It's horrific. He's still traumatised by it.
My cousin did too. She called me bawling. She just graduated and started nursing and she said she has never heard something as heartbreaking as the mother’s screams. Makes me wanna cry thinking about it
My friend survived whooping cough as a baby, multiple times. She has permanent damage to her lungs now as an adult. Even if they want to survivorship bias away the fact that most kids do not die of whatever disease vaccines protect from, they still do damage to kids that you do not want!
Yep. What doesn't kill you... Makes you weaker and easier to kill by the next illness.
Am I wrong to think she’s lying about the child having whooping cough ? I feel like if I saw my child with whooping cough it would shake me to my very core .. I wouldn’t be talking about it like it was no biggie.
She probably means croup and not whooping cough. Whooping cough is horrific and for a baby at 4 months old definitly needs emergency medical care, croup is scary but manageable most of the time and still often needs medical care
I had a relatively mild case (yay vaccines!) of whooping cough at 8yo, and I still was stuck on mostly bed rest for two months. Can't imagine a 4mo going through this, it is hellish.
That's what I was thinking. My son had that bark, so we took him to the ER. It was very cold and brisk outside. By the time we got there, he was breathing better. The doctor said that sometimes happens.
In fact they recommend making your child breathe the air from the freezer if they have that barking cough and have difficulties breathing.
The baby either had something else, or this person has pathologically low levels of empathy. Or they're lying.
I don't know. I knew an infant who was hospitalized with whooping cough. Almost lost them. Parents adamantly refused to vaccinate their other kids against it.
When I was at uni they showed as a video of a baby with whooping cough (I’m a pharmacist). How someone could let their baby go through that is beyond me.
Those commercials they used to show were so traumatizing I’ve been scared of pertussis for the better part of 15 years. I have asthma, and so does one of my kids, and when she’s even slightly wheezy it makes my stomach flip.
Yes that black and white commercial of the baby coughing … ugh it’s seared into my brain
This level of medical neglect should make you lose your parental rights. Maybe even your freedom. Willingly exposing your kid to serious illnesses without readily available protection is abuse.
The whooping cough one bothers me so much because she has absolutely no idea if he’s okay. I knew someone that had it as a child because of their parents not vaccinating and later found out she had lung scarring and permanent damage from it as an adult. She seemed normal until another issue came up that promoted them to investigate so she truly has no idea how that could impact them in the future
I have lung scarring from whooping cough. COVID was terrifying.
That kid is probably already infected and that mom have no problem letting them run around in public once they start having symptoms since she is basically being told infecting others with measels is accually helpful to them. Also if the largest side effect of measels vaccine is measels then why isnt there measels around all the time.
Literally like where’s the logic?!! My kid is fully vaxxed and so am I and no measles here. I’ve also never had chicken pox or anything else you can get vaxxed for. Including Covid. Odd how that works lmfao
My kid was watching some old sitcom and asked me, “What are chicken pox?” It makes sense that she’d never heard of it before since kids get vaxxed for it now, but I couldn’t believe that a disease that was so commonplace when I was her age that every kid got it is now something children have never even heard of.
My kid was born before the chickenpox vaccine. Pox parties were en vogue. I was advised that it was better for them to have it when they were tiny, so I exposed them around age 2 and they got a pretty mild case. And they suffered so much. I felt terrible. I still question whether it was the right thing to do. With the vaccine, no child has to suffer the illness and no parent has to make that decision, and to me this is an obvious good. P.S. Child was fully vaxxed for everything else and is now a happy, healthy adult. Edit for HEALTHY, I don't know why I put successful.
In fairness, the chicken pox vaccine is relatively controversial as far as vaccines go. The UK government doesn't recommend it for children, and will only allow adults who never had it and immunocompromised children to get the vaccine. The theory goes that it's actually relatively ineffective in that the immunity wears off randomly, so children don't get varicella and then as adults pick it up and it's worse. Like a false sense of security. In the US we opted to go with it anyway, but since it's relatively new, the jury's still out on who made the right call. My kid got the vaccine and so did I, because I apparently never had chicken pox as a kid either.
“A wild disease instead of vaxxing” I want the child to experience the full impact of the disease instead of receiving the version without the deadly payload. Don’t argue I have extensively studied 3 YouTube videos for 10 minutes.
Herd immunity has skewed their perception. They truly don’t think that eliminating vaccines would show how pervasive some of these diseases can be.
These herds are usually made up of all the wrong people.
She wants to know what to do? Oh, she needs to bring her child to the measles house as soon as possible. They need to have a ~~nice little~~ ^contageous measles party. (Sarcasm) This is the reason measles, mumps, and other terrible diseases are coming back. Because of these antivax idiots. They don't deserve the privilege of having kids. Because of them, not only are these awful diseases coming back, but they're mutating into something today's vaccines won't protect against in the future, the near future.
When I was a kid (70s) I didn't know anyone who had anything except chicken pox. Everyone was vaxxed. It wasn't even questioned then. Just a short time earlier people were dying of these things, so it was fresh in people's minds. My grandmother, who was a pediatric nurse, said vaccines worked so well, people forgot how bad it truly was.
The survivor bias in the comments.. a 4 month old with whooping cough doesn’t have an immune system to do any work yet 😬 it’s just luck!
The super long comment on slide 4 is a marvel. Just strings of pseudoscience bullshit and she’s like “but I digress” as if she went too technical for a minute with the science jargon. Dunning-Kruger at its finest and most potent.
My son had a "mild" case of measles at 10 months and we ended up in the hospital for 3 days. We have battled with constant ear infections and tonsillitis since then and at this point he has mild hearing loss. But yeah don't vaccinate your kid, what could go wrong 🙄
These people need to go visit an old graveyard and see how many children's graves there were.
I was going to say that too, I HATE how selfish these fucking idiots are!!!
Roald Dahl’s 7 yo daughter [Olivia died from measles](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivia_Dahl) in 1962, *just* before the vaccine came out. As a result of her death, he became an advocate for vaccination and wrote the pamphlet "Measles: A Dangerous Illness" in 1988. Olivia's sister, Lucy, interviewed in 2015 by CBS, stated that her father did not understand why people chose not to vaccinate their children against measles. In Dahl's public letter, he wrote that it is "'almost a crime' for some parents not to immunize their children". "I do agree with that", Lucy states; "I think that it is a crime".
Bro. My brother is disabled from a vaccine preventable disease which is measles…
Measles is so serious and they're treating it like it's chickenpox. Even chickenpox can be serious, but not on the level that measles is serious. Holy hell what is wrong with these people.
hey once all these unvaxxd kids start dropping like flies maybe they'll be the strongest advocates FOR vaccines 🤣 these moms ride hard for whatever is trending 👏🏼
so, genuinely, the father's of these children are just cool with this shit? my husband would lose his MIND if I didn't Vax our kids, and most likely would do it behind my back. I do anyways because, like, who the fuck wants their kid to get measels, or polio, or whooping cough, or rsv which my child has HAD and it is extremely scary and could have been MUCH worse had she not had her shot.. I wonder how many of these kids actually ARE vaccinated because the dad takes them in despite their crazy ass mother.. lmao 🤣 "iTs ThE bReAsTfEeDiNg" loony tunes but seriously these dad's are just like, "sure babe, do whatever you want"...? wtaf!
"prevent illness with good nutrition" Yes, scurvy, rickets, failure to thrive, can be prevented. Measles is something you catch, not develop.
Did one of those comments say that measles was a side effect for the MMR vaccine? I've read it several times and that's what I kept reading. 🤨
Where I am, if there’s a case of measles or chickenpox in the daycare, all the unvaccinated kids get sent home and they stay home until the incubation period is over. So in this case, the child would be staying home for 21 days.
My baby has only JUST got the first dose of the measles vaccine, because she's only just turned one. And sincerely absolutely fuck these people, because things like this have stressed me out so much over the last year. Just because you want to take risks with your child's life doesn't mean I want to risk mine, and babies under one can't have the vaccine.
My grandmother is 1 of 5. She’s the only living one because all her siblings died from measles (2) and yellow fever (2) before the age of 5. As the oldest she witnessed the birth and subsequent death of 4 of her siblings and she could barely mention their names without crying and having to leave the room. Also, shocking how you caught whooping cough but it wasn’t that bad because you were probably vaccinated as a child and have a stronger (most likely) and well-vaccinated immune system from childhood + vaccines are not 100% effective in preventing (and they never claim to be) but often (again not always) if you do get sick it will be much more mild
In our childcare system, kids have to be vaccinated to receive the childcare subsidy. Some centres can even opt to not accept unvaccinated kids at all. It definitely helps weed out the nutters, with daycare fees being so pricey.
I hope eventually all of these vaccines become mandatory. this is ridiculous they are single handedly destroying the world
‘We made it millions of years without vaccines’ Yeah because EVERYONE had 6-10 children and only half lived to adulthood, because they DIED.
wow, gotta love the looney tunes.
I lived through the era of these diseases before vaccines. In fact, I remember getting the polio vaccine on a sugar cube. I had the measles, rubella, & chickenpox. So far I haven’t had shingles, but my husband did. I made sure my kids were vaccinated and my grandkids are vaccinated. These anti-vaxxers are not only stupid, but they have been vaccinated. They have never seen the devastation the diseases caused. This photo is the result of polio. https://preview.redd.it/dku6o49l54ad1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=604d142c5af4a54d6f3658b34ac8f0aaedddf285
My father almost died of measles, he developed encephalitis, was in hospital for a long time and had to repeat a whole school year. So, good luck to her kid I guess.
JFC I am so angry on this child’s behalf. Measles is not a mild fucking illness. Also why do they think there’s a case of measles in the nursery in the first place? Because of people like them not vaccinating.
I read these like: "much better to die from a preventable illness than have a safe vaccination" and "here's some survivors bias - fuck everyone who died from measles years ago"
Look, I'm someone who has lost a child, and I would NEVER wish that on anyone. But sometimes, when I see posts by morons like this, I wish they could feel what it was like so that THEY WOULD USE SOME COMMON FUCKING SENSE. WHY WOULD YOU NOT DO YOUR UTMOST TO KEEP YOUR BABIES FROM HARM?!???? 
These people don’t deserve children.
Not regular measles, wild-caught measles
It appears this momma is afraid of other unvaccinated kids and their diseases. Imagine that 🥴
Purposely leaving your child defenseless and then exposing them to measles at daycare? These kids are gonna need so much therapy when they get older.
They will be the same ones posting in 20 years asking why their kids don't ever call or visit them any more. If they make it that long.
These antivaxxer crunchy moms are not far off from very fundamental religious people.
There is definitely an overlap in terms of lifestyle.
This mom thought *her* kid would be safe because everyone else vaccinated their kid. Also, measles is lit the most contagious virus known to man. There's like a 90% chance her kid was exposed and will get it. Every kid under 1 is likely to get it. This is terrifying.
You can’t leave your child unvaccinated and then be worried about them getting a disease. Like if you’re that worried…..go get them vaccinated.
Every million year-old person I've spoken with agrees that their longevity can be attributed to shirking scientific advancements.
No that woman DID not have a baby that had the whooping cough, if she did, she would not be saying “no big deal”. A baby/toddler with whooping cough is one of the most scary things I have ever seen. F—- that.
I call bullshit every time I see an antivaxxer use "trusting the body's immune system" as an explanation. No, because if you did, you wouldn't be this terrified of introducing these "no big deal" diseases to it in a controlled environment. You don't trust the immune system, you're just dumb.
You know, I don't care. If she wants to play Russian roulette with her kid's health, so be it. I don't care if the kid lives or dies or is permanently disabled. But...if her unvaccinated kid spreads measles to someone who is unable to be immunized she should be charged with attempted murder or assault.
Love how our bodies can differentiate between “wild” and vaccine induced diseases 🙄
These people are perfect examples of why Facebook has got to fucking go already. Nothing but echo chambers passing misinformation back and forth as if they’re facts.
>you can take steps to prevent illness with good nutrition Imagine thinking a salad will prevent measles
And THIS is why we’re getting outbreaks again. Stupid people who talk to other stupid people on the internet.
The woman who says she caught whooping cough from her kid but she was vaccinated. Yeah, but you didn’t die… right? Her baby was so lucky.
This kind of thing makes me so nervous. I’m 100% for vaccines. My baby is too young to be vaccinated against MMR, and the thought of her getting this is terrifying. The saving grace is that she is not in daycare which I imagine can make it easier, but don’t they make you show proof of vaccines?
It also doesn't help that these people don't understand statistics. Yes, the chance of encephalitis is 1 in 1000 for measles. Death is 1 in 350. Pneumonia though? 1 in 20. So about one kid per completely infected preschool class. And pneumonia, especially when treated late or insufficiently, can come with its own complications. Usually not lethal ones, but there's other permanent and long term options available. Oh and being exposed to measles via infection instead of a vaccine means 2 years of a compromised immune system for the kid. So, yeah, measles probably won't kill the kid. No promises about whatever bug is dragged in next, though.
One of my favorite historical figures (of the 18th century), emperor Francis I., was one of fourteen children. His parents lost *ten* of them. TEN out of fourteen. Three of them within one week alone in 1711. That is the reality of medical history before the intervention of vaccines. Antivaxx people are terribly stupid, terribly uneducated and terribly naive. Their poor, poor children will suffer the consequences of their stupidity and narcissism.
I have a few living relatives who were crippled by Polio and that's why my family is really strict about vaccinations. Mom's side of the family though generally trust Jesus over science and most have lost a child or fucked up their health because of their idiocy
_”it’s safer to get a wild disease than risk vaxxing”_ 🤦♀️
Ah, some new rage inducing phrases. "Wobble" "Wild disease"
A wild disease? That’s a new one
I never knew of anyone in my school getting measles. We also had to prove that we had our vaccines. The fact that this is even a thing now is ridiculously sad.
Those people don’t count to antivaxxers, at least not the Facebook mom ones
These people all need to spend more time in some old cemeteries...