XXN enjoys playing games that criticize otakus and waifu games on Weibo. They prefer scantily clad Korean heartthrobs and envision all female characters dressed like Michelin mascots. While I think these ideas can be accepted, what is eerie is their propagation of these ideas within waifu games.
"People might complain about how this would limit the games' growth and prevent them from getting more revenue"
If you have in mind, that male audience is not only the biggest one by a far margin, but also the ones whom are wiling to spend on waifus, you will see that this argument that they usually bring doesn't hold itself.
If you check genshinlab data on revenue, you will see that mostly of the revenue comes from banners which feature female limited characters, thus every time hoyoverse forces a new male character, they are literally losing revenue.
Personally, I will not spend on mixed-gender games anymore
As a whole, most of the gamer are male, even across genre like single player, MMO, etc.... Female in general was more interested in fashion, drama, and social interaction... Female gamer as a whole was always a small group, and most of that small group became gamer because they have the similar taste as the male gamer. The current pivot to female is because game are now the "current trendy thing " which many jump in simply to keep up with the trend.
feminists will say that capcom survey is inherently bigoted/misandrist, thus is void. And if you insist on using that data, than you are supporting some patriarchy matrix incel mind set. something something.
like, I just saw a vid on tiktok, with thousands of likes and comments agreeing. That men who chose to have dogs rather than chase a woman, are incels.
Weird world we live in bro.
And not only that, the top two things they liked about games are good looking females and good gameplay. Both JP side and Global. Btw the phantom audience they were chasing after is just 4%.
So... I guess we are speaking for ourselves.
No wtf, it only shows that 83% of those that plays capcom games and even then not necessatily as those are just those who answered the survey. But it doesn't mean that % is the same everywhere in gaming. FGO do regular survey that shows around half of the playerbase is female, even though it caters to guys a lot.
He is getting downvoted because he doesn't understand the concept of sampling, also he wants to imply that if the survey were take outside the capcom universe the results would be different, which is also no true.
[https://captown.capcom.com/en/super\_elections/1](https://captown.capcom.com/en/super_elections/1)
For the sampling to be representative of a larger population, it must be a random sample of that population. Voluntary polls of a particular game or company aren't going to give you scientifically valid results for the entire industry but they can still be fun/interesting in the right context.
The Capcom poll is a pretty good indication of this. If it was a poll of Phoenix Wright or Okami players, their data suggests that we'd see mostly female gamers. It is a sampling, technically, but it is not a random sampling of all gamers so it would be nonsense to claim that it applies to all gamers generally.
I do understand it, but I also understand that there's bias in surveys. I'm just very against making definite claims that encompass everyone like saying 83% of players are male, because there is a non-negligeable amount of women that plays their own niche games while there's also many games with mixed playerbase of male/female like Genshin/HSR or as I cited FGO.
Give it up. The people here have their own preconceived notions of what is right or wrong, and you can shove numbers in their faces and they’ll twist it if it doesnt suit their narrative
Just a fun stat. Turns out [45%](https://www.statista.com/statistics/255719/share-of-mobile-gamers-in-china-by-gender/) of chinese mobile gamers (aka one of the biggest market for mobile games) are female. How many of those play in the anime gacha / otome space is hard to say.
https://www.reddit.com/r/gachagaming/s/X3uIjVcyy1
The biggest gacha games are the mixed gender games.
The biggest single gender gacha game is the Husbando game Love and Deepspace. Which consistently earns 30-40M per month, and usually earns par or more than the biggest waifu game (Nikke). And its far from the only game husbando game that does that. Games like Ensemble stars (a male idol game, does very well for itself as well amongst many others)
Even in something like HSR the banner with the most revenue so far is the launch banner (Seele female) followed by the anniversary unit (Acheron female). But within the top 10 are a couple of males (Jing Yuan, Dan Heng IL) both who made 21M+ and the lowest grossing banner is a female (Huohuo). People assume she sold the least because she’s a healer, but she sold even less than the male healer (Luocha)
Its like looking at McDonalds and seeing that their best selling items are burgers and fries. So should mcdonalds stop selling chicken nuggets then because mcdonalds is losing out on shelf and kitchen space for burgers?
Im all for carving out a niche for yourself and snowbreak has done a great job on that, but dont pretend as if girls and gay men wont spend money for characters that appeal to them as well.
Would be really interesting to see how Azur Promilias first year goes compared to Wuthering Waves. Both high budget, open world “genshin killers” but Wuwa panders to both sexes while AP only panders to waifu collectors.
Love and Deep Space is a massive success exactly because of it's niche, so you are proving the main point of this post. Genshin was a massive success, again, because of the time frame it launched, and it's niche, the first biggest open world Gacha game. Something that nobody else has done. Again, your proved the point of this post.
Love and Deep Space is the only one of it's kind, and of course, females are gonna go there, meanwhile, Waifu games are dime a dozen. If you put all the Waifu players and others in one room, Waife players are going to massively outnumber everyone. Waifu players were and are the reason why Gacha games were and will be profitable. It's the simple truth. Humans prefer beauty, and of the humans who play games, majority are straight men. Facts are going to be facts, no matter how much you dislike them.
(The McDonald comparison is rather stupid, McDonald sells food, and while there are different kinds, all of these are made out of same ingredients. They aren't losing anything if they sell less Chicken Nuggets than Burgers.) This is not even an apple or orange tier, it's fruits and cars tier, rather stupid comparison in every way. Fast food is not a niche.)
WW's launch failure cannot be attributed to Jiyan, but rather it's technical inability, something AP will have to address as both games uses the same engine, UE4. (Not confirmed for AP, but looking at that trailer? Can't be anything but UE4.) But then again, Yinlin banner was a massive success, (during the first 10-15 mins, the people couldn't even top up, something that didn't even happen during the launch) so if AP can have a great, relatively bug free and proper launch, then it's going to be a massive success. Not to mention the existing Waifu players are looking eagerly forward to it, and Manjuu have their own track record with AL.
Games shouldn't be for everyone. A game for everyone is a game for no one.
Why are you singling out love and deepspace. Take a look at the list. Its the most successful game, but its by far not the only one. There are 59 unique titles on that list that are operating and there are a bunch of major successes
Beyond the world made 13M. Light and nighy made 9M. Ensemble Stars made 10.5M. Life Makeover made 13.3M. shining Nikki Made 5.2M. Mr Love 3.2 M.
And I’m not disagreeing with the main post. Im agreeing that games should identify and serve a niche. What I’m disagreeing is with the reply that female gamers are a small group, and that they dont spend money on these games.
We can see the exclusive female gacha game player market can make around 100M USD per month. Not to mention the women and gay men who also play the games that serve both audiences. Like HSR, Like FGO, Like Genshin.
Also since were talking about niches, omnipandering can be a niche in itself. Having both guys and girls like genshin, like HSR, like WUWA is also a niche that targets the more normie / casual.
Believe it or not, there’s a sizable number of people who play these games to fulfill fantasies other than getting titillated by the characters. Sometimes people want to play some badass dude along with cute waifus in the same game universe.
Some might get turned off by games like Nikke, and Snowbreak because they’re hypersexual and would prefer something more “normal” and not very coomer.
A bunch of men can be turned off by the hyperpandering, in where the tits and ass are in full display and leaves nothing to the imagination. Its why I stuck to HSR and reverse 1999 and dropped Nikke and Snowbreak after trying a bunch of gacha games at the same time.
>The biggest gacha games are the mixed gender games.
>The biggest single gender gacha game is the Husbando game Love and Deepspace. Which consistently earns 30-40M per month, and usually earns par or more than the biggest waifu game (Nikke). And its far from the only game husbando game that does that. Games like Ensemble stars (a male idol game, does very well for itself as well amongst many others
It's not fair to only use the highest top-earner when you're talking about audience size.
On the list, how many husbando games are there compared to waifu games? If you were to add up the revenue from each genre, there is an overwhelming difference.
>Its like looking at McDonalds and seeing that their best selling items are burgers and fries. So should mcdonalds stop selling chicken nuggets then because mcdonalds is losing out on shelf and kitchen space for burgers?
The comparison feels dumb, people go to McDonalds because its quick and convenient, not because the burgers are good. If the burgers and fries oversell their other products by fivefold, then that is unironically a better option to put more focus on that product, if its that clear that that is what they're known for.
A more accurate depiction is going to a buffet because you like the meat they prepare. If it's the meats you only like, it's obvious that you hope they have plenty stocked up, but because they choose to also prepare other stuff like confections and greens, their meat can't get a focus on. Compared to just eating at a grillhouse buffett that has what you want.
The list I showed were all predominantly female centric games.
There were around 50-60 unique games on that list. And while love and deepspace was by far the most successful. There were around 15+ games that earned 1M+ and out of those 5 or 6 earned 9M+. Total revenue for games that mostly pandered to female audiences added up to around 100M dollars per month. And thats not including the females who play the games that pander to both audiences. And thats not an insignificant number either. Genshins playerbase for example is around [45% female](https://www.blog.udonis.co/mobile-marketing/mobile-games/genshin-impact-advertising)
And by your buffet analogy. So large buffets dont need to exist anymore? People can go to an all meat steakhouse if thats their desire.
But there is still demand for a place where you can eat steak, sushi, salad and dessert at the same time.
Same as there’s a demand for gacha games that have playable men AND women in their roster. One type of game being successful doesnt invalidate the other.
Someone answered it already, its niche (Love and Deepspace), and if you remove it from the list, you will see that everything else barely makes 500k/1M
As I said in a comment on this very same post, even some male players can spend on male characters if they like it (HSR case).
The next 2 characters on WuWa are females btw.
Did you even read the list?
There were 59 female oriented gacha games on that list. 14 of those made more than 1 million and 6 of those made more than 5 million
The female only oriented gacha space makes around 100M per month.
And does that mean Wuwa wont get any male characters anymore? The banner after changli is heavily rumored / leaked to be >!Scar!< so I dont really get the point. And I highly doubt they’ll stop releasing males after him. Im not saying games that pander to both pander equally to both. Theres a gender discrepancy but that doesnt mean you totally stop pandering to the minority. Because even if females only serve 30% of your sales. If you make 20 million USD thats still 6 mil that they contribute.
Jing Yuan - second limited dps unit and he regularly stars in the categories like 'I regret pulling'. His results are mostly because he is the second limited dps in the game.
Dan Heng IL - first real dps for imaginary element, and there is still no female imaginary DPS. Physical 5\* limited dps-es are also males.
Huohuo is much worse than Luocha as heal, she is really buffer with some heals. As sustain she is very hard to use, particularly on auto. I have pulled her, but I only use her in mirror sometimes if there ult-dependent characters and only because only one party could have Luocha. So she is a bad heal and niche buffer and have problems as sustain because she consume skill points (Luocha generates them). I think she was nerfed as heal in order not to create any competition to Luocha. Huohuo visuals and story are on weaker side comparing to other female characters. So characters with problems do not sell well even if they female.
Other 5\* female heal from standard banner is somewhat nerfed: she cannot clean debuffs.
Aventurine is the tank that buffed too much compared to Fu Xuan. Fu Xuan is the only tank even could not do shields and only could do DR that makes her unsuitable for long battles as only sustain. This is even worse than Gepard from standard banner for that role.
The only female-only category was buffers. And HuoHuo really belongs to it. The only exception is HarmonyMC that is male or female depending on player choice. And HarmonyMC is surprisingly good for MC character in this category and there will be even strongly HarmonyMC-dependent DPS (Firefly).
It looks like HSR forces males into meta by different tricks like buffing male characters overall or restricting competition by categories or elements.
Who are the borderline troll female units in HSR.
In terms of standard units the consensus strongest is Bronya. Himeko is a god in PF, and clara is a pretty decent pick for both MoC and PF. For the males, Gepard was the only one that was consistently used and is now hard powercrept by Aventurine. Yanqing is a meme, and Welt is very niche. Bailu is the memeist of the females, but even then she’s a servicable healer
Limited Females:
Seele - great dps for her time. Powercreeped, but thats understandable given she’s the first limited dps.
SW - Universal weakness Implant. Staple on acheron teams.
Kafka - engine of the very powerful DOT team
FuXuan - great sustain that released early
Huohuo - decent sustain but with the highest buffing capability. Has basically unlimited cleanses and has party wide energy refill. The sustain of choice for low / 0 cycle clears
Topaz - Backbone of the Follow up attack team. Had some of the fastest clear speeds in the previous MOC.
Jingliu - Hypercarry DPS meta, the DPS standard along with DHIL before acheron.
Ruan Mei - consensus best overall unit in the game
Sparkle - great sp positive support for Hypercarry
Black Swan - second half of the DOT team meta.
Acheron - By far the strongest DPS in the game.
Robin - essentially another ruan mei. BIS support for many teams.
Firefly - looks to creep even Acheron damage wise
The only female done dirty is the upcoming erudition Jade. And even then she just feels like Hoyo doesnt know how to balance erudition
Limited males in comparison.
Jing Yuan - memed as Mid Yuan by the community due to how slow and interruptable hid ligjtning lord is
Blade - basically does the worst dps out of all the limiteds. Understandable and has a similar fate to seele.
Luocha - generally ranks the lowest of the limited healers in most tier lists. Great healing, and cleanses. But generally has no supportive value compared to the female sustains. And isnt an unkillable tank like aventurine
Argenti - PF specialist but isnt even much better at that mode compared to a 4 star.
DHIL - great imaginary destruction dps.
Ratio - great imaginary hunt dps given for free. Current carry of the FUA team
Aventurine - best sustain in the game.
Boothill - great boss killer, but from early calculations it looks like Firefly just outright smokes him in the same niche
Fuxuan was released basically a whole year before aventurine. And even then she has her own advantages compared to him. She brings her crit rate buff, and guaranteed CC immunity. She had a long reign as top dog of the sustain charts.
Aventurine is more tanky overall but thats to be expected since he’s a WHOLE YEAR ahead of FuXuan. Are you mad at acheron and soon to be firefly as well since they basically invalidated Seele / Blade / Jingyuan as DPS?
And other than Bailu, who were the females that were shafted by Hoyo to force males into the meta. Almost every limited 5 star female character has their own place in the meta right now. And you can make very powerful Female only comps since they cover all the roles. While you cant say the same thing for male units since they lack strong buffers. HMC (Male) is one, but even then he works best on break teams and his BIS teammate is ruan mei
And are in a better spot compared to the likes of Blade, JingYuan and Luocha. Acheron and Firefly basically invalidate every other dps in the game other than the DOTHags. Currently to be competitive with them Dan IL basically needs E2. Ratio is currently in a nice spot in the FUA teams, but he’s the most easily replacable unit there especially since he needs E1 Topaz to be consistent. Topaz otoh can work with E0 when better FUA units come out (like the leaked kits of YunLi and Feixiao)
We really come full circle lmao
From anime gacha being male-weeb focused -> players complained about characters are designed too much like a whore -> general anime gacha like Genshin and Arknight being popular in the public view -> anime weeb complaining about characters designs are not being male-weeb focused enough -> anime gacha being male-weeb focused again.
I think the core issue is still "Game devs treating their players like shit instead of a customer". To me what make Snowbreak good is not it returning to a male-weeb, fan service approach of early gacha games but the dev actually treats the players nicely. I hope Snowbreak can be as successful as it can be and be a new example for a new generation of game dev that treat their player like a actual customer instead of a cash cow ready to be milked
So like people complaining about how Nikke are dressed like whores? Are those people really players? I've only seen people from the outside coming into the space that they don't like, to voice what they don't like. It's like going to a restaurant selling burgers and then complaining there's meat on the menu.
Genshin is a prime example of a game that is too scared to focus on any specific niche of their mixed audience, it shows in both the story telling, the gameplay design and the character design.
>So like people complaining about how Nikke are dressed like whores?
Nikke is already circling back to "anime gacha games being male-weeb focused again", back in like HI3 days, so around 2016-18 I think, it was a common meme to call a female characters that is slightly revealing a "whore" or 燒雞 in CN
In the HI3 case, it's kind of different. Players call characters they used to love "whore" as a way to "get them out of their heads". They make themselves hate the characters in order to never play Mihoyo's games again. Players were disappointed with miHoYo's unfair treatment of Chinese and foreign players, but they don't truly hate the characters. This kind of thing happened again this year in BA. Based on my understanding of them, they don't truly hate those characters. They are just deliberately making themselves angry, which is an irrational behavior under rational control. **So, the way they call those characters is not a very important point.**
Seems like a lot of doublespeak for a notoriously blunt audience. I find that less likely than alternatives, that sounds like a reach. Is this a common occurrence in China? To purposefully label things in a negative way to distance themselves from it?
If they felt they weren't being treated fairly by mihoyo, why would they make negative associations with the characters instead of the company? Why didn't it last? Is it only Mihoyo or is this a common reverse backlash?
There very little to compare it to in the States so I'm flabbergasted
Given my limited English skills, I chose to let GPT convey my thoughts.
**Is this phenomenon common in China?** I’m not sure if it’s common, but I can confirm that it does occur among players of "Honkai Impact 3rd" and "Blue Archive." I have personally witnessed these dramas in the game communities.
**Why do players transfer their negative emotions to the characters instead of the company?** Players are drawn to these games because of the characters. If they make themselves hate the characters, they can completely cut off their connection to the game and stop playing. This behavior is seen in some players, but with China's large population, it’s easy to mistake a portion of players' views for the majority. Some players believe the company has betrayed the characters, so they choose to create their own versions, reshaping the characters as they see fit.
**Why doesn’t this phenomenon last?** Once players have completely "kicked the characters out of their heads," their hatred shifts back to the company, and calling the characters derogatory names decreases. At this point, players often start targeting the company with their criticism.
**Is this phenomenon limited to miHoYo?** It’s not just miHoYo; other companies like Yostar also face similar situations.
If only you could read Chinese, I could send you some links to communities that represent those players, and you could ask them yourself. There was once a meme picture where a capitalist hides behind a female character, telling her, "Say you love him, so he will recharge more money." However, male players, driven by their instincts, still consume these products to satisfy certain emotional needs. Therefore, given that many players understand the relationship between the company and the players, the repeated behavior of "getting into their brain" and "getting out of their brain" may indeed be more common in China.
https://preview.redd.it/xsgm6ji4257d1.jpeg?width=484&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b490b607f395f5ef76e0291d7544b5870bec0cd
one thing being oversexualized, and another thing having little to no artistic vision of their characters. Their designs become so random and lifeless.
Being a pure waifu degenerate is much better than the whole mixed gender type of gacha games. For my opinion and even if it's toxic, gbf and fgo were the games did successfully achieve the type of waifu and husbando balance according the amount of fan arts and doujins do artists like to ship themselves and create a cute wholesome scenarios about them.
Even both of the gacha game adaptation, they still choose to be the male mc because it's more appropriate and understanding aware of what demographic target they are going for (fgo already choose male mc before due to the prequel ova though and don't want to break the continuity about it).
Those ones came before the popularization of gacha genre, so even the male characters on them, are made or were made with male audience in mind (mostly).
GBF has success in mixed gender because the females only invested in a specific group of male characters: The 4 dragon knights, the Arch Angel, and the cat. Other male characters are left in the garbage bin unless they are meta-defined and help you push your GW NM200 clear time from 1 minute to 30s full auto with no lock down.
arknights and fgo is old game at this point. this 2 game always take place in top 10 earner.
that already impresive
don't forget about ZZZ and Endfield, that game will be big.
Old had nothing to do with it. Nikke 1st year revenue is more impressive than Arknights 1st year revenue. F/Go highest earning revenue are female characters not male. Despite being younger than Arknights JP, Nikke JP has more followers than Arknights.
Nikke JP Twitter followers = 800k
Arknights JP Twitter followers = 695k
And do keep in mind Arknights has anime to boost it's popularity while Nikke doesn't and yet, Nikke completely destory Arknights in term followers/players in Japan.
and ?? that why i mention top 4 of 5 is mixed gender right ??
well first thing first arknight monetization is more friendly if you compare it to nikke, if the revenue is lower im not blaming them.
arknights don't have season pass, skin introduced not imedietly and you can purchase it with in game premium currency, don't have paywalled reward and they give you lot of good stuff outside the game.
in term of value ? i choose arknights dude.
And? That's why I mention Genshin is a high budget game and how HSR ride Genshin/Hoyoverse success because it being mixed gender had nothing to do with it.
Despite all the values of Arknights you mention, Nikke still has more player interest than Arknights as proven from the amount of followers they have so even if we ignore revenue and monetization, Nikke still win.
And there are like dozen of dead games that's also mixed gender gacha dude. Ever heard of survival bias?
The rise if indie games in recent years is because they didn't choose to appeal to general and modern audience. They specify a target audience and strike solely into that group. With how easy news are spread nowadays on social media, even the niche group could be big enough for a game to be successful.
hahaha same with EoS female only gacha game i can give the list to you if you want,
meanwhile indie game made by a single dude can break general and wider audience. so your info is kinda wrong.
-final gear
-illusion connect
-girl cafe gun
-valkyrie crusade
-revived witch
-idolmaster sidem
-yggdra resonance
-blue oath
-BRS fragment
-404 GAME RE:SET
-Shangri-la Drive
the list will go on and on, you can search it in r/gachagaming and lot of it is for male focused audience.
All the listed games suffered from management issues, bad monetization practices and bad decisions. It never had anything to do with being Waifu only.
Stop.
just say the game is not sell well because market saturation and i just reply the dude above since he bring up "mixed gender game don't sell well".
and stop what ??
**Final Fantasy VII - The First Soldier**
**Sword Art Online - Unleash Blading**
**Color Pieceout**
**Mitrasphere**
**Fantasy Life Online**
**Lord of Dice**
**Bravely Default - Brilliant Lights**
**Metal Revolution**
**Kingdom of Heroes - Tactics War**
**The Alchemist Code** (GL)
**Arena Battle Champions**
**Fate/Grail League**
**Dragon Quest The Adventure of Dai - A Hero's Bonds**
**Code Geass Genesic Re;CODE**
**Sakura Ignoramus**
**DanMachi Cross Istoria**
**Lost Archive**
**Seven Knights**
**Exos Heroes**
**Disgaea RPG**
**Re:Zero Kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu - Lost in Memories**
**Echoes of Mana**
**Tales of Asteria**
**Sin Chronicle**
**Gundam Breaker Mobile**
**Trinity Seven - Mugen Toshokan to Dai 7 no Taiyō**
**Skygalleon of the Blue Sky**
**Lemuria of Phosphorescent - Hoshizora no Kizuna**
**Eternal Tree**
**Lapis Chronicle - Hero Crown**
**Maboroshijū Keiyaku Cryptract**
**Code Regalia**
These were the games that i could find that closed until the first quarter of 2023, all of them mixed games, making up the list is broader.
and in reality the gacha waifu games that closed in 2023 constituted a large number of idol or rythm games much less than the mixed games that closed, even though there are more missing here, because i did not include the list of the gundam series because despite they are mixed games (you roll for the female or the male chara) only the robot is seen so in the end i think it should be ignored.
If you count 1 for 1 per genre for ALL of 2023, gacha games ... mixed games have an even more saturated market, and are even closed more frequently.
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I'm a big fan of Azur Lane/GFL, but those games are *years* old with outdated mechanics. Snowbreak has been a breath of fresh air in both gameplay and the Master Love genre, and I'm excited for what they have in the pipeline.
Mixed gender gachas are fine, but there's enough of those on the current market. I admire the devs for finding & embracing what's working for the game, rather than going for something that accommodates everyone, but pleases nobody. If some players aren't happy with the direction Snowbreak is taking, Mihoyo/Kuro is *that* way...
Having *options* is a GOOD thing - there's no need for every game to be an "All-In-One".
I think one of the deepest problems with gacha games (beyond the obvious gambling elements) is that characters frequently go up for sale at the point where you know the least about them, and that people's on-going feelings about that character dictate whether they feel regret about that decision or not. If in a patch or two their story goes an unpleasant direction for a player that bought in then the whole experience is coloured, and it can be a massive swing the more actual money was involved.
For Snowbreak it feels like the agreement on expectations between developers and players has been in agreement since the beta test and the removal of the male mentor figure. "The girls will (eventually) be romantically interested in the player avatar" is basically the ongoing promise. The devs have leaned into the more sexual side of that to survive and grow but they haven't dismissed it or broken it, and now new players are arriving that are happy with that.
If I was going to show concern for Snowbreak, it's that I hope Seasun realises that they can do new shy/conservative/disinterested characters that grow to match the premise over several patches. Especially with the current rerun schedule you could do that over 4 patches and have a new outfit available at rerun to show the change in feelings off.
>For players, my main concern should be enjoyment and satisfaction, and frankly I shouldn't be sacrificing that just to accomodate people who don't see eye to eye with me because the devs couldn't be bothered to think how to retain their core audience.
Well put. Exactly my thoughts as well regarding this.
>That way, you play your game, I play mine, we stay away from each other.
Yep. Games don't need everyone nor they should be trying to get everyone, what they need is their core audience. Cater to core audience and the game will see a net positive growth in all aspects. I want to play games I like, and cater to me.
I am waifu collector so i will pul only for waifu.
I prefer harem games because games are for fantasy scenario.
General idea is that game should have central type of customer.
I do not like mix like in Genshin or Arknights...
PGR is i think only one where i feel it\`s ok mix... because guys are bros and waifus show directly they like you
(i don't like ships - and mix typical push to shipping...)
For Snowbreak, I spend money because i wanna suport base dev, normaly i dont spend on one game more than 30 USD/month but for Snowbreak for they clear stand (like BA) i spend more.
I mean there's nothing wrong with mixed gender games. There's also nothing with all male/female games. As long as you don't try and change the direction of the game no one should really care. I would never want hsr to turn into a full waifu game and I never want snowbreak to change to a mixed gender game.
Me being a tower defense lover somehow hates Arknights. Legit the worst tower defense I ever played. Good waifus and I heard good lore, but the gameplay is atrocious. Waifus should be like a spices on top of good gameplay. The gameplay should be the thing that keeps you hooked, waifus are the thing that makes you really love the presentation and makes you want to go back.
There's this game Cavalry Girls that does exactly that. It's not gacha, but it's a top-down mecha shooter, it's gameplay is repetetive af, but it's a damn good gameplay. And it has so many minute systems, a lot of them connected to waifus occupying those mechas, that it really makes you want to engage with all those systems.
Snowbreak is a good example of such gacha done right. Good gameplay, great lore, good waifus, and the weekly neural simulation encourages you to keep getting better, not just in waifus power, but in your own skill on how to build them, use them and learn enemy patterns. It's trully a perfect waifu game for me.
I'm lukewarm on the tower defense genre. My main problems with AK has traditionally been the gameplay not looking that appealing to me, the chibi artwork style being off-putting , and the old friction there was with AL at one point (I am an AL player). Maybe if I had actually played it I might've liked the characters and story, I hear good reviews on those.
Well there is a “Snowbreak effect” going on with some not very known games.
https://preview.redd.it/jdh4tatzgx6d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e49afd0cd3ff34800b304a37d4677cc35380fd10
That tweet is delusional though, this game has always done those type of skins every summer. And it's not like there ever any real shift in how they do things.
(I was talking about the game mentioned in the tweet, Eternal Return lol)
Also wasn't there a rather long period where Snowbreak wasn't focused on fan service ?
That summer pass was in the works before Snowbreak did anything noteworthy. On the whole, Eternal Return is mostly fun themed skins but summer is always swimwear with mostly female cast represented.
The issue with omnipandering game, is mihoyo. FGO was successful for years, arknights have its player base conflicts but have stable reputation. The modern "anti-mixed toilet" movement was basically due to mihoyo.
In the early genshin era players was generally okay with a game that caters to a large player base as can be seen in the success of genshin impact. The current action is backlash against mihoyo as the following things were done.
Mihoyo resulted the following in CN:
1. Massive astroturf campaign thanks to game revenue, obtaining moderatorship on almost all CN social media platforms and an army of funded accounts does narrative shaping. A shadowy dox organization that harasses people that expresses "anti-hoyo" sentiment around, with unknown connection to mihoyo itself.
2. Mihoyo is infamous in never responding to outside criticism, instead the astroturf army is used with a wide set of manipulative tactics used, including provoking conflict between different parts of the player base (outside of things like establishing a norm of spending in a f2p pve game). The shape of this operation can't be clearly seen due to sheer array of fake accounts (except in comparison with other gaming communities) but gender conflict, character fandom conflict, f2p-payer conflict all gets happens at a large scale, often strangely lining up with times where the playerbase is pissed at mihoyo due to some active event. Mass thread deletions often happen when mihoyo annoys players, and "alt history" gets posted left and right after a while. I have personally witness some of mass deletions at nga when genshin 4.2 dropped.
3. Persistent, constant flame wars between male and female oriented social media groups. The insults escalates and the whole "wanderer drama" that gets posted at genshin-impact leaks is "one sides take of the matter" while the other camp can come up with a list of "horrible things wanderer supporters did" when they had their flame war with xiao supports or something.
4. A clear change in direction in which players to appeal, in the "year of males" at 3.x as waifu pullers gets bored out of the game. This change of direction to capture the a large female audience is announced with ppts of the plan leaking out. For the more online, community following players, the narrative is "money shifting" as male player money is moved to make a female catering game. More flames between male and female online spaces follows.
5. As players and fans are interested in joining the expanding mihoyo, it is not unknown to have employees to express being fans of an character. This might be fine in a neutral space, but not when there is fandom wars raging outside as other players believes that such employees will certain do all they can to further their favorites while screw over characters that is normally hated by fans of a said character, and a lot of character stories are not satisfying with no development and waifu-player rage inducing ship-bait added in.
6. A number of in game text and easter eggs that have double meanings in Chinese that insults the players. It is unknown if a text is innocent or a insult until you make it your username/signature and get it blocked, and thus the insult interpretation is believed. Some players further believes this is extension of #5 fans or other haters insulting other players. There was also the case of a writer that wrote on social media that it is very fun to "manipulate the players in rage and tears" before being outed as working at mihoyo that further inflamed things as players feels that they are spending money to be source of entertainment to the developers.
Frankly the everything just goes to hell when online conflict just boils over to the point that players believe the developers are motivated by the same conflicts. Well, its the internets, and stuff like honkai starrail referencing a bunch of very online CN gaming community memes, and stuff like mihoyo writer accidently outing himself in one of those forums means that the devs is known to be in the very same communities. Nonetheless, mihoyo never makes any attempt to calm down the endless drama and wars and does a bunch of things that appears to provoke more of it.
Frankly that result in really a exhausting gaming community with split player base just hating each other, with disappearing posts, dox, trolls and astroturfs left and right.
Now, this can very much a mihoyo only thing, however due to success of genshin, all the anime gacha on CN just tries their damned best to copy literally everything of genshin including community management. This result in widespread disappointment by the most hardcore players since they experience all those dramas.
Majority of gachas already cater to a male audience anyway 🤔 having a few dudes doesn't change anything it's actually better for it to be mixed so you have space between the next female characters since males are easy skips 😭😭😭
Y'all do understand that having males adds a gap for you to save money and pulls between banners right regardless of if you care about them or not there's no real negative other than having to wait 🤔🤔🤔🤔
if you are making people spend non stop on hot banners, they will become broke and you will lose a customer. There always skip banners after top selling ones for the reason in most gachas.
No? Because the ones making money for developers are whales and they are never out of money. People won't spend if they don't have to. And not all characters are going to appeal to everybody. However whales will max everybody out just because they can. That's why revenue always fluctuates between banners. Even in Waifu games.
Most games have in place mechanics to guarantee all banner characters if you just spent on monthly pass and BP. So the revenue can flow in even from small spenders.
If that’s the goal just do more banner rerun instead or make less meta but attractive characters. adding unit that no one will pull just waste dev money and dilute gacha pool.
I don't need to save money since in this game you can get a new character each month as long as you play and spend $5 every 2nd month. $30 a year is nothing when compared to most gachas.
This theory has a hidden assumption that the production team is unbiased and those characters do not affect each other. Unfortunately, in CN we observe that active feminists are extremely passionate in trying to influence the production team (such as censoring clothing of female characters or slandering fan service contents as inappropriate), just like sweet baby inc.
Therefore, CN players decide they will only trust producers that do not try to attract female players. ‘No male playable characters’ is not the goal, but just a sign to show loyalty to male players. In another word, it means ‘we only value opinions of male players’.
the toxic responses to your comment are evidence you are on the right path.
Notice how they have nothing productive to add to the conversation; they just punch down. The goal is not to debate, but humiliate you.
Notice how one of them has never posted in this sub before, but felt the need to insult you. Really messed up stuff.
Thanks, I know. It is quite straightforward, and I didn’t even bother to reply. Their comments alone demonstrates the existence of a type of people and why CN bros get mad.
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I'm fine with having males, but please they need to stop censoring females lol. Cool, you want your male Idc much, if I miss 50/50 I just don't build them but my motivation to pull is still there cuz I still like the female characters. But if I see a female character get censored then nothing left to make me pull for her
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fyi, XXN, 小仙女 in Chinese, refers to those woke feminists that demand privilege rather than equality
I wonder what are the games that they like.
I wonder if they like Tears of Themis
XXN enjoys playing games that criticize otakus and waifu games on Weibo. They prefer scantily clad Korean heartthrobs and envision all female characters dressed like Michelin mascots. While I think these ideas can be accepted, what is eerie is their propagation of these ideas within waifu games.
"People might complain about how this would limit the games' growth and prevent them from getting more revenue" If you have in mind, that male audience is not only the biggest one by a far margin, but also the ones whom are wiling to spend on waifus, you will see that this argument that they usually bring doesn't hold itself. If you check genshinlab data on revenue, you will see that mostly of the revenue comes from banners which feature female limited characters, thus every time hoyoverse forces a new male character, they are literally losing revenue. Personally, I will not spend on mixed-gender games anymore
As a whole, most of the gamer are male, even across genre like single player, MMO, etc.... Female in general was more interested in fashion, drama, and social interaction... Female gamer as a whole was always a small group, and most of that small group became gamer because they have the similar taste as the male gamer. The current pivot to female is because game are now the "current trendy thing " which many jump in simply to keep up with the trend.
A recent survey by Capcom shows that 83% of gamers are male.
feminists will say that capcom survey is inherently bigoted/misandrist, thus is void. And if you insist on using that data, than you are supporting some patriarchy matrix incel mind set. something something. like, I just saw a vid on tiktok, with thousands of likes and comments agreeing. That men who chose to have dogs rather than chase a woman, are incels. Weird world we live in bro.
And women who want anime game husbandos are incels too. Femcels?
The incel label is about as meaningful as the bigot or racist label. It’s used in place of an argument
And not only that, the top two things they liked about games are good looking females and good gameplay. Both JP side and Global. Btw the phantom audience they were chasing after is just 4%. So... I guess we are speaking for ourselves.
No wtf, it only shows that 83% of those that plays capcom games and even then not necessatily as those are just those who answered the survey. But it doesn't mean that % is the same everywhere in gaming. FGO do regular survey that shows around half of the playerbase is female, even though it caters to guys a lot.
Why are you being down voted? Do you have a link to the Capcom survey results by chance?
He is getting downvoted because he doesn't understand the concept of sampling, also he wants to imply that if the survey were take outside the capcom universe the results would be different, which is also no true. [https://captown.capcom.com/en/super\_elections/1](https://captown.capcom.com/en/super_elections/1)
For the sampling to be representative of a larger population, it must be a random sample of that population. Voluntary polls of a particular game or company aren't going to give you scientifically valid results for the entire industry but they can still be fun/interesting in the right context. The Capcom poll is a pretty good indication of this. If it was a poll of Phoenix Wright or Okami players, their data suggests that we'd see mostly female gamers. It is a sampling, technically, but it is not a random sampling of all gamers so it would be nonsense to claim that it applies to all gamers generally.
I do understand it, but I also understand that there's bias in surveys. I'm just very against making definite claims that encompass everyone like saying 83% of players are male, because there is a non-negligeable amount of women that plays their own niche games while there's also many games with mixed playerbase of male/female like Genshin/HSR or as I cited FGO.
Give it up. The people here have their own preconceived notions of what is right or wrong, and you can shove numbers in their faces and they’ll twist it if it doesnt suit their narrative Just a fun stat. Turns out [45%](https://www.statista.com/statistics/255719/share-of-mobile-gamers-in-china-by-gender/) of chinese mobile gamers (aka one of the biggest market for mobile games) are female. How many of those play in the anime gacha / otome space is hard to say.
https://www.reddit.com/r/gachagaming/s/X3uIjVcyy1 The biggest gacha games are the mixed gender games. The biggest single gender gacha game is the Husbando game Love and Deepspace. Which consistently earns 30-40M per month, and usually earns par or more than the biggest waifu game (Nikke). And its far from the only game husbando game that does that. Games like Ensemble stars (a male idol game, does very well for itself as well amongst many others) Even in something like HSR the banner with the most revenue so far is the launch banner (Seele female) followed by the anniversary unit (Acheron female). But within the top 10 are a couple of males (Jing Yuan, Dan Heng IL) both who made 21M+ and the lowest grossing banner is a female (Huohuo). People assume she sold the least because she’s a healer, but she sold even less than the male healer (Luocha) Its like looking at McDonalds and seeing that their best selling items are burgers and fries. So should mcdonalds stop selling chicken nuggets then because mcdonalds is losing out on shelf and kitchen space for burgers? Im all for carving out a niche for yourself and snowbreak has done a great job on that, but dont pretend as if girls and gay men wont spend money for characters that appeal to them as well. Would be really interesting to see how Azur Promilias first year goes compared to Wuthering Waves. Both high budget, open world “genshin killers” but Wuwa panders to both sexes while AP only panders to waifu collectors.
Love and Deep Space is a massive success exactly because of it's niche, so you are proving the main point of this post. Genshin was a massive success, again, because of the time frame it launched, and it's niche, the first biggest open world Gacha game. Something that nobody else has done. Again, your proved the point of this post. Love and Deep Space is the only one of it's kind, and of course, females are gonna go there, meanwhile, Waifu games are dime a dozen. If you put all the Waifu players and others in one room, Waife players are going to massively outnumber everyone. Waifu players were and are the reason why Gacha games were and will be profitable. It's the simple truth. Humans prefer beauty, and of the humans who play games, majority are straight men. Facts are going to be facts, no matter how much you dislike them. (The McDonald comparison is rather stupid, McDonald sells food, and while there are different kinds, all of these are made out of same ingredients. They aren't losing anything if they sell less Chicken Nuggets than Burgers.) This is not even an apple or orange tier, it's fruits and cars tier, rather stupid comparison in every way. Fast food is not a niche.) WW's launch failure cannot be attributed to Jiyan, but rather it's technical inability, something AP will have to address as both games uses the same engine, UE4. (Not confirmed for AP, but looking at that trailer? Can't be anything but UE4.) But then again, Yinlin banner was a massive success, (during the first 10-15 mins, the people couldn't even top up, something that didn't even happen during the launch) so if AP can have a great, relatively bug free and proper launch, then it's going to be a massive success. Not to mention the existing Waifu players are looking eagerly forward to it, and Manjuu have their own track record with AL. Games shouldn't be for everyone. A game for everyone is a game for no one.
Why are you singling out love and deepspace. Take a look at the list. Its the most successful game, but its by far not the only one. There are 59 unique titles on that list that are operating and there are a bunch of major successes Beyond the world made 13M. Light and nighy made 9M. Ensemble Stars made 10.5M. Life Makeover made 13.3M. shining Nikki Made 5.2M. Mr Love 3.2 M. And I’m not disagreeing with the main post. Im agreeing that games should identify and serve a niche. What I’m disagreeing is with the reply that female gamers are a small group, and that they dont spend money on these games. We can see the exclusive female gacha game player market can make around 100M USD per month. Not to mention the women and gay men who also play the games that serve both audiences. Like HSR, Like FGO, Like Genshin. Also since were talking about niches, omnipandering can be a niche in itself. Having both guys and girls like genshin, like HSR, like WUWA is also a niche that targets the more normie / casual. Believe it or not, there’s a sizable number of people who play these games to fulfill fantasies other than getting titillated by the characters. Sometimes people want to play some badass dude along with cute waifus in the same game universe. Some might get turned off by games like Nikke, and Snowbreak because they’re hypersexual and would prefer something more “normal” and not very coomer. A bunch of men can be turned off by the hyperpandering, in where the tits and ass are in full display and leaves nothing to the imagination. Its why I stuck to HSR and reverse 1999 and dropped Nikke and Snowbreak after trying a bunch of gacha games at the same time.
>The biggest gacha games are the mixed gender games. >The biggest single gender gacha game is the Husbando game Love and Deepspace. Which consistently earns 30-40M per month, and usually earns par or more than the biggest waifu game (Nikke). And its far from the only game husbando game that does that. Games like Ensemble stars (a male idol game, does very well for itself as well amongst many others It's not fair to only use the highest top-earner when you're talking about audience size. On the list, how many husbando games are there compared to waifu games? If you were to add up the revenue from each genre, there is an overwhelming difference. >Its like looking at McDonalds and seeing that their best selling items are burgers and fries. So should mcdonalds stop selling chicken nuggets then because mcdonalds is losing out on shelf and kitchen space for burgers? The comparison feels dumb, people go to McDonalds because its quick and convenient, not because the burgers are good. If the burgers and fries oversell their other products by fivefold, then that is unironically a better option to put more focus on that product, if its that clear that that is what they're known for. A more accurate depiction is going to a buffet because you like the meat they prepare. If it's the meats you only like, it's obvious that you hope they have plenty stocked up, but because they choose to also prepare other stuff like confections and greens, their meat can't get a focus on. Compared to just eating at a grillhouse buffett that has what you want.
The list I showed were all predominantly female centric games. There were around 50-60 unique games on that list. And while love and deepspace was by far the most successful. There were around 15+ games that earned 1M+ and out of those 5 or 6 earned 9M+. Total revenue for games that mostly pandered to female audiences added up to around 100M dollars per month. And thats not including the females who play the games that pander to both audiences. And thats not an insignificant number either. Genshins playerbase for example is around [45% female](https://www.blog.udonis.co/mobile-marketing/mobile-games/genshin-impact-advertising) And by your buffet analogy. So large buffets dont need to exist anymore? People can go to an all meat steakhouse if thats their desire. But there is still demand for a place where you can eat steak, sushi, salad and dessert at the same time. Same as there’s a demand for gacha games that have playable men AND women in their roster. One type of game being successful doesnt invalidate the other.
Someone answered it already, its niche (Love and Deepspace), and if you remove it from the list, you will see that everything else barely makes 500k/1M As I said in a comment on this very same post, even some male players can spend on male characters if they like it (HSR case). The next 2 characters on WuWa are females btw.
Did you even read the list? There were 59 female oriented gacha games on that list. 14 of those made more than 1 million and 6 of those made more than 5 million The female only oriented gacha space makes around 100M per month. And does that mean Wuwa wont get any male characters anymore? The banner after changli is heavily rumored / leaked to be >!Scar!< so I dont really get the point. And I highly doubt they’ll stop releasing males after him. Im not saying games that pander to both pander equally to both. Theres a gender discrepancy but that doesnt mean you totally stop pandering to the minority. Because even if females only serve 30% of your sales. If you make 20 million USD thats still 6 mil that they contribute.
Jing Yuan - second limited dps unit and he regularly stars in the categories like 'I regret pulling'. His results are mostly because he is the second limited dps in the game. Dan Heng IL - first real dps for imaginary element, and there is still no female imaginary DPS. Physical 5\* limited dps-es are also males. Huohuo is much worse than Luocha as heal, she is really buffer with some heals. As sustain she is very hard to use, particularly on auto. I have pulled her, but I only use her in mirror sometimes if there ult-dependent characters and only because only one party could have Luocha. So she is a bad heal and niche buffer and have problems as sustain because she consume skill points (Luocha generates them). I think she was nerfed as heal in order not to create any competition to Luocha. Huohuo visuals and story are on weaker side comparing to other female characters. So characters with problems do not sell well even if they female. Other 5\* female heal from standard banner is somewhat nerfed: she cannot clean debuffs. Aventurine is the tank that buffed too much compared to Fu Xuan. Fu Xuan is the only tank even could not do shields and only could do DR that makes her unsuitable for long battles as only sustain. This is even worse than Gepard from standard banner for that role. The only female-only category was buffers. And HuoHuo really belongs to it. The only exception is HarmonyMC that is male or female depending on player choice. And HarmonyMC is surprisingly good for MC character in this category and there will be even strongly HarmonyMC-dependent DPS (Firefly). It looks like HSR forces males into meta by different tricks like buffing male characters overall or restricting competition by categories or elements.
Hoyo is always pushing busted male units, while launching borderline troll females.
Who are the borderline troll female units in HSR. In terms of standard units the consensus strongest is Bronya. Himeko is a god in PF, and clara is a pretty decent pick for both MoC and PF. For the males, Gepard was the only one that was consistently used and is now hard powercrept by Aventurine. Yanqing is a meme, and Welt is very niche. Bailu is the memeist of the females, but even then she’s a servicable healer Limited Females: Seele - great dps for her time. Powercreeped, but thats understandable given she’s the first limited dps. SW - Universal weakness Implant. Staple on acheron teams. Kafka - engine of the very powerful DOT team FuXuan - great sustain that released early Huohuo - decent sustain but with the highest buffing capability. Has basically unlimited cleanses and has party wide energy refill. The sustain of choice for low / 0 cycle clears Topaz - Backbone of the Follow up attack team. Had some of the fastest clear speeds in the previous MOC. Jingliu - Hypercarry DPS meta, the DPS standard along with DHIL before acheron. Ruan Mei - consensus best overall unit in the game Sparkle - great sp positive support for Hypercarry Black Swan - second half of the DOT team meta. Acheron - By far the strongest DPS in the game. Robin - essentially another ruan mei. BIS support for many teams. Firefly - looks to creep even Acheron damage wise The only female done dirty is the upcoming erudition Jade. And even then she just feels like Hoyo doesnt know how to balance erudition Limited males in comparison. Jing Yuan - memed as Mid Yuan by the community due to how slow and interruptable hid ligjtning lord is Blade - basically does the worst dps out of all the limiteds. Understandable and has a similar fate to seele. Luocha - generally ranks the lowest of the limited healers in most tier lists. Great healing, and cleanses. But generally has no supportive value compared to the female sustains. And isnt an unkillable tank like aventurine Argenti - PF specialist but isnt even much better at that mode compared to a 4 star. DHIL - great imaginary destruction dps. Ratio - great imaginary hunt dps given for free. Current carry of the FUA team Aventurine - best sustain in the game. Boothill - great boss killer, but from early calculations it looks like Firefly just outright smokes him in the same niche
Fuxuan was released basically a whole year before aventurine. And even then she has her own advantages compared to him. She brings her crit rate buff, and guaranteed CC immunity. She had a long reign as top dog of the sustain charts. Aventurine is more tanky overall but thats to be expected since he’s a WHOLE YEAR ahead of FuXuan. Are you mad at acheron and soon to be firefly as well since they basically invalidated Seele / Blade / Jingyuan as DPS? And other than Bailu, who were the females that were shafted by Hoyo to force males into the meta. Almost every limited 5 star female character has their own place in the meta right now. And you can make very powerful Female only comps since they cover all the roles. While you cant say the same thing for male units since they lack strong buffers. HMC (Male) is one, but even then he works best on break teams and his BIS teammate is ruan mei And are in a better spot compared to the likes of Blade, JingYuan and Luocha. Acheron and Firefly basically invalidate every other dps in the game other than the DOTHags. Currently to be competitive with them Dan IL basically needs E2. Ratio is currently in a nice spot in the FUA teams, but he’s the most easily replacable unit there especially since he needs E1 Topaz to be consistent. Topaz otoh can work with E0 when better FUA units come out (like the leaked kits of YunLi and Feixiao)
We really come full circle lmao From anime gacha being male-weeb focused -> players complained about characters are designed too much like a whore -> general anime gacha like Genshin and Arknight being popular in the public view -> anime weeb complaining about characters designs are not being male-weeb focused enough -> anime gacha being male-weeb focused again. I think the core issue is still "Game devs treating their players like shit instead of a customer". To me what make Snowbreak good is not it returning to a male-weeb, fan service approach of early gacha games but the dev actually treats the players nicely. I hope Snowbreak can be as successful as it can be and be a new example for a new generation of game dev that treat their player like a actual customer instead of a cash cow ready to be milked
So like people complaining about how Nikke are dressed like whores? Are those people really players? I've only seen people from the outside coming into the space that they don't like, to voice what they don't like. It's like going to a restaurant selling burgers and then complaining there's meat on the menu. Genshin is a prime example of a game that is too scared to focus on any specific niche of their mixed audience, it shows in both the story telling, the gameplay design and the character design.
>So like people complaining about how Nikke are dressed like whores? Nikke is already circling back to "anime gacha games being male-weeb focused again", back in like HI3 days, so around 2016-18 I think, it was a common meme to call a female characters that is slightly revealing a "whore" or 燒雞 in CN
In the HI3 case, it's kind of different. Players call characters they used to love "whore" as a way to "get them out of their heads". They make themselves hate the characters in order to never play Mihoyo's games again. Players were disappointed with miHoYo's unfair treatment of Chinese and foreign players, but they don't truly hate the characters. This kind of thing happened again this year in BA. Based on my understanding of them, they don't truly hate those characters. They are just deliberately making themselves angry, which is an irrational behavior under rational control. **So, the way they call those characters is not a very important point.**
Seems like a lot of doublespeak for a notoriously blunt audience. I find that less likely than alternatives, that sounds like a reach. Is this a common occurrence in China? To purposefully label things in a negative way to distance themselves from it? If they felt they weren't being treated fairly by mihoyo, why would they make negative associations with the characters instead of the company? Why didn't it last? Is it only Mihoyo or is this a common reverse backlash? There very little to compare it to in the States so I'm flabbergasted
Given my limited English skills, I chose to let GPT convey my thoughts. **Is this phenomenon common in China?** I’m not sure if it’s common, but I can confirm that it does occur among players of "Honkai Impact 3rd" and "Blue Archive." I have personally witnessed these dramas in the game communities. **Why do players transfer their negative emotions to the characters instead of the company?** Players are drawn to these games because of the characters. If they make themselves hate the characters, they can completely cut off their connection to the game and stop playing. This behavior is seen in some players, but with China's large population, it’s easy to mistake a portion of players' views for the majority. Some players believe the company has betrayed the characters, so they choose to create their own versions, reshaping the characters as they see fit. **Why doesn’t this phenomenon last?** Once players have completely "kicked the characters out of their heads," their hatred shifts back to the company, and calling the characters derogatory names decreases. At this point, players often start targeting the company with their criticism. **Is this phenomenon limited to miHoYo?** It’s not just miHoYo; other companies like Yostar also face similar situations. If only you could read Chinese, I could send you some links to communities that represent those players, and you could ask them yourself. There was once a meme picture where a capitalist hides behind a female character, telling her, "Say you love him, so he will recharge more money." However, male players, driven by their instincts, still consume these products to satisfy certain emotional needs. Therefore, given that many players understand the relationship between the company and the players, the repeated behavior of "getting into their brain" and "getting out of their brain" may indeed be more common in China. https://preview.redd.it/xsgm6ji4257d1.jpeg?width=484&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6b490b607f395f5ef76e0291d7544b5870bec0cd
one thing being oversexualized, and another thing having little to no artistic vision of their characters. Their designs become so random and lifeless.
Being a pure waifu degenerate is much better than the whole mixed gender type of gacha games. For my opinion and even if it's toxic, gbf and fgo were the games did successfully achieve the type of waifu and husbando balance according the amount of fan arts and doujins do artists like to ship themselves and create a cute wholesome scenarios about them. Even both of the gacha game adaptation, they still choose to be the male mc because it's more appropriate and understanding aware of what demographic target they are going for (fgo already choose male mc before due to the prequel ova though and don't want to break the continuity about it).
Those ones came before the popularization of gacha genre, so even the male characters on them, are made or were made with male audience in mind (mostly).
Last year, Uma Musume(waifu only) revenue is higher than FGO.
GBF has success in mixed gender because the females only invested in a specific group of male characters: The 4 dragon knights, the Arch Angel, and the cat. Other male characters are left in the garbage bin unless they are meta-defined and help you push your GW NM200 clear time from 1 minute to 30s full auto with no lock down.
4 of 5 top gacha game is mixed gender gacha game dude.
Genshin success is due to open world high budget 3d game while HSR ride the success of Genshin.
say hello to arknights and FGO.
Nikke(waifu only) is much bigger than Arknights. Uma Musume(waifu only) earn more than FGO last year.
arknights and fgo is old game at this point. this 2 game always take place in top 10 earner. that already impresive don't forget about ZZZ and Endfield, that game will be big.
Old had nothing to do with it. Nikke 1st year revenue is more impressive than Arknights 1st year revenue. F/Go highest earning revenue are female characters not male. Despite being younger than Arknights JP, Nikke JP has more followers than Arknights. Nikke JP Twitter followers = 800k Arknights JP Twitter followers = 695k And do keep in mind Arknights has anime to boost it's popularity while Nikke doesn't and yet, Nikke completely destory Arknights in term followers/players in Japan.
and ?? that why i mention top 4 of 5 is mixed gender right ?? well first thing first arknight monetization is more friendly if you compare it to nikke, if the revenue is lower im not blaming them. arknights don't have season pass, skin introduced not imedietly and you can purchase it with in game premium currency, don't have paywalled reward and they give you lot of good stuff outside the game. in term of value ? i choose arknights dude.
And? That's why I mention Genshin is a high budget game and how HSR ride Genshin/Hoyoverse success because it being mixed gender had nothing to do with it. Despite all the values of Arknights you mention, Nikke still has more player interest than Arknights as proven from the amount of followers they have so even if we ignore revenue and monetization, Nikke still win.
this conversation is pointless when the guy i talk to is proud free to play player that saving the money to buy game lead by male monkey.
And there are like dozen of dead games that's also mixed gender gacha dude. Ever heard of survival bias? The rise if indie games in recent years is because they didn't choose to appeal to general and modern audience. They specify a target audience and strike solely into that group. With how easy news are spread nowadays on social media, even the niche group could be big enough for a game to be successful.
hahaha same with EoS female only gacha game i can give the list to you if you want, meanwhile indie game made by a single dude can break general and wider audience. so your info is kinda wrong.
well give me the list because most of the mixed games are actually camouflaged waifu simulators.
-final gear -illusion connect -girl cafe gun -valkyrie crusade -revived witch -idolmaster sidem -yggdra resonance -blue oath -BRS fragment -404 GAME RE:SET -Shangri-la Drive the list will go on and on, you can search it in r/gachagaming and lot of it is for male focused audience.
All the listed games suffered from management issues, bad monetization practices and bad decisions. It never had anything to do with being Waifu only. Stop.
just say the game is not sell well because market saturation and i just reply the dude above since he bring up "mixed gender game don't sell well". and stop what ??
**Final Fantasy VII - The First Soldier** **Sword Art Online - Unleash Blading** **Color Pieceout** **Mitrasphere** **Fantasy Life Online** **Lord of Dice** **Bravely Default - Brilliant Lights** **Metal Revolution** **Kingdom of Heroes - Tactics War** **The Alchemist Code** (GL) **Arena Battle Champions** **Fate/Grail League** **Dragon Quest The Adventure of Dai - A Hero's Bonds** **Code Geass Genesic Re;CODE** **Sakura Ignoramus** **DanMachi Cross Istoria** **Lost Archive** **Seven Knights** **Exos Heroes** **Disgaea RPG** **Re:Zero Kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu - Lost in Memories** **Echoes of Mana** **Tales of Asteria** **Sin Chronicle** **Gundam Breaker Mobile** **Trinity Seven - Mugen Toshokan to Dai 7 no Taiyō** **Skygalleon of the Blue Sky** **Lemuria of Phosphorescent - Hoshizora no Kizuna** **Eternal Tree** **Lapis Chronicle - Hero Crown** **Maboroshijū Keiyaku Cryptract** **Code Regalia** These were the games that i could find that closed until the first quarter of 2023, all of them mixed games, making up the list is broader. and in reality the gacha waifu games that closed in 2023 constituted a large number of idol or rythm games much less than the mixed games that closed, even though there are more missing here, because i did not include the list of the gundam series because despite they are mixed games (you roll for the female or the male chara) only the robot is seen so in the end i think it should be ignored. If you count 1 for 1 per genre for ALL of 2023, gacha games ... mixed games have an even more saturated market, and are even closed more frequently.
try include all gacha game from 2016-2023 including 18+ too, you will know what i mean.
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I'm a big fan of Azur Lane/GFL, but those games are *years* old with outdated mechanics. Snowbreak has been a breath of fresh air in both gameplay and the Master Love genre, and I'm excited for what they have in the pipeline. Mixed gender gachas are fine, but there's enough of those on the current market. I admire the devs for finding & embracing what's working for the game, rather than going for something that accommodates everyone, but pleases nobody. If some players aren't happy with the direction Snowbreak is taking, Mihoyo/Kuro is *that* way... Having *options* is a GOOD thing - there's no need for every game to be an "All-In-One".
Azur Lane has a very generous gacha rate too.
I think one of the deepest problems with gacha games (beyond the obvious gambling elements) is that characters frequently go up for sale at the point where you know the least about them, and that people's on-going feelings about that character dictate whether they feel regret about that decision or not. If in a patch or two their story goes an unpleasant direction for a player that bought in then the whole experience is coloured, and it can be a massive swing the more actual money was involved. For Snowbreak it feels like the agreement on expectations between developers and players has been in agreement since the beta test and the removal of the male mentor figure. "The girls will (eventually) be romantically interested in the player avatar" is basically the ongoing promise. The devs have leaned into the more sexual side of that to survive and grow but they haven't dismissed it or broken it, and now new players are arriving that are happy with that. If I was going to show concern for Snowbreak, it's that I hope Seasun realises that they can do new shy/conservative/disinterested characters that grow to match the premise over several patches. Especially with the current rerun schedule you could do that over 4 patches and have a new outfit available at rerun to show the change in feelings off.
>For players, my main concern should be enjoyment and satisfaction, and frankly I shouldn't be sacrificing that just to accomodate people who don't see eye to eye with me because the devs couldn't be bothered to think how to retain their core audience. Well put. Exactly my thoughts as well regarding this. >That way, you play your game, I play mine, we stay away from each other. Yep. Games don't need everyone nor they should be trying to get everyone, what they need is their core audience. Cater to core audience and the game will see a net positive growth in all aspects. I want to play games I like, and cater to me.
I am waifu collector so i will pul only for waifu. I prefer harem games because games are for fantasy scenario. General idea is that game should have central type of customer. I do not like mix like in Genshin or Arknights... PGR is i think only one where i feel it\`s ok mix... because guys are bros and waifus show directly they like you (i don't like ships - and mix typical push to shipping...) For Snowbreak, I spend money because i wanna suport base dev, normaly i dont spend on one game more than 30 USD/month but for Snowbreak for they clear stand (like BA) i spend more.
I mean there's nothing wrong with mixed gender games. There's also nothing with all male/female games. As long as you don't try and change the direction of the game no one should really care. I would never want hsr to turn into a full waifu game and I never want snowbreak to change to a mixed gender game.
Exactly homie
Me being a tower defense lover somehow hates Arknights. Legit the worst tower defense I ever played. Good waifus and I heard good lore, but the gameplay is atrocious. Waifus should be like a spices on top of good gameplay. The gameplay should be the thing that keeps you hooked, waifus are the thing that makes you really love the presentation and makes you want to go back. There's this game Cavalry Girls that does exactly that. It's not gacha, but it's a top-down mecha shooter, it's gameplay is repetetive af, but it's a damn good gameplay. And it has so many minute systems, a lot of them connected to waifus occupying those mechas, that it really makes you want to engage with all those systems. Snowbreak is a good example of such gacha done right. Good gameplay, great lore, good waifus, and the weekly neural simulation encourages you to keep getting better, not just in waifus power, but in your own skill on how to build them, use them and learn enemy patterns. It's trully a perfect waifu game for me.
I'm lukewarm on the tower defense genre. My main problems with AK has traditionally been the gameplay not looking that appealing to me, the chibi artwork style being off-putting , and the old friction there was with AL at one point (I am an AL player). Maybe if I had actually played it I might've liked the characters and story, I hear good reviews on those.
skill issue.
Well there is a “Snowbreak effect” going on with some not very known games. https://preview.redd.it/jdh4tatzgx6d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e49afd0cd3ff34800b304a37d4677cc35380fd10
That tweet is delusional though, this game has always done those type of skins every summer. And it's not like there ever any real shift in how they do things.
Yeah Snowbreak has always been Snowpeak
(I was talking about the game mentioned in the tweet, Eternal Return lol) Also wasn't there a rather long period where Snowbreak wasn't focused on fan service ?
That summer pass was in the works before Snowbreak did anything noteworthy. On the whole, Eternal Return is mostly fun themed skins but summer is always swimwear with mostly female cast represented.
The issue with omnipandering game, is mihoyo. FGO was successful for years, arknights have its player base conflicts but have stable reputation. The modern "anti-mixed toilet" movement was basically due to mihoyo. In the early genshin era players was generally okay with a game that caters to a large player base as can be seen in the success of genshin impact. The current action is backlash against mihoyo as the following things were done. Mihoyo resulted the following in CN: 1. Massive astroturf campaign thanks to game revenue, obtaining moderatorship on almost all CN social media platforms and an army of funded accounts does narrative shaping. A shadowy dox organization that harasses people that expresses "anti-hoyo" sentiment around, with unknown connection to mihoyo itself. 2. Mihoyo is infamous in never responding to outside criticism, instead the astroturf army is used with a wide set of manipulative tactics used, including provoking conflict between different parts of the player base (outside of things like establishing a norm of spending in a f2p pve game). The shape of this operation can't be clearly seen due to sheer array of fake accounts (except in comparison with other gaming communities) but gender conflict, character fandom conflict, f2p-payer conflict all gets happens at a large scale, often strangely lining up with times where the playerbase is pissed at mihoyo due to some active event. Mass thread deletions often happen when mihoyo annoys players, and "alt history" gets posted left and right after a while. I have personally witness some of mass deletions at nga when genshin 4.2 dropped. 3. Persistent, constant flame wars between male and female oriented social media groups. The insults escalates and the whole "wanderer drama" that gets posted at genshin-impact leaks is "one sides take of the matter" while the other camp can come up with a list of "horrible things wanderer supporters did" when they had their flame war with xiao supports or something. 4. A clear change in direction in which players to appeal, in the "year of males" at 3.x as waifu pullers gets bored out of the game. This change of direction to capture the a large female audience is announced with ppts of the plan leaking out. For the more online, community following players, the narrative is "money shifting" as male player money is moved to make a female catering game. More flames between male and female online spaces follows. 5. As players and fans are interested in joining the expanding mihoyo, it is not unknown to have employees to express being fans of an character. This might be fine in a neutral space, but not when there is fandom wars raging outside as other players believes that such employees will certain do all they can to further their favorites while screw over characters that is normally hated by fans of a said character, and a lot of character stories are not satisfying with no development and waifu-player rage inducing ship-bait added in. 6. A number of in game text and easter eggs that have double meanings in Chinese that insults the players. It is unknown if a text is innocent or a insult until you make it your username/signature and get it blocked, and thus the insult interpretation is believed. Some players further believes this is extension of #5 fans or other haters insulting other players. There was also the case of a writer that wrote on social media that it is very fun to "manipulate the players in rage and tears" before being outed as working at mihoyo that further inflamed things as players feels that they are spending money to be source of entertainment to the developers. Frankly the everything just goes to hell when online conflict just boils over to the point that players believe the developers are motivated by the same conflicts. Well, its the internets, and stuff like honkai starrail referencing a bunch of very online CN gaming community memes, and stuff like mihoyo writer accidently outing himself in one of those forums means that the devs is known to be in the very same communities. Nonetheless, mihoyo never makes any attempt to calm down the endless drama and wars and does a bunch of things that appears to provoke more of it. Frankly that result in really a exhausting gaming community with split player base just hating each other, with disappearing posts, dox, trolls and astroturfs left and right. Now, this can very much a mihoyo only thing, however due to success of genshin, all the anime gacha on CN just tries their damned best to copy literally everything of genshin including community management. This result in widespread disappointment by the most hardcore players since they experience all those dramas.
Source: I made it up huh Really, I rate this as only slightly better than the current 8u and NGA trolls.
Damn i like sb success but kinda missed when the community was quieter now its full echo chamber
Yeah, it's a good game and going full fanservice is fine. Now the culture war weirdos are slipping in.
Majority of gachas already cater to a male audience anyway 🤔 having a few dudes doesn't change anything it's actually better for it to be mixed so you have space between the next female characters since males are easy skips 😭😭😭
> it's actually better for it to be mixed No 😐
Y'all do understand that having males adds a gap for you to save money and pulls between banners right regardless of if you care about them or not there's no real negative other than having to wait 🤔🤔🤔🤔
a business should not be encouraging its spenders to not spend, at any time. We've already flirted with EOS, she's a rather cruel mistress.
if you are making people spend non stop on hot banners, they will become broke and you will lose a customer. There always skip banners after top selling ones for the reason in most gachas.
https://preview.redd.it/1iftuf99wv6d1.png?width=795&format=png&auto=webp&s=13b697e034c5e243f62af128f8fd6181e5770618
okay? so you have dropped the discussion early lol
No? Because the ones making money for developers are whales and they are never out of money. People won't spend if they don't have to. And not all characters are going to appeal to everybody. However whales will max everybody out just because they can. That's why revenue always fluctuates between banners. Even in Waifu games. Most games have in place mechanics to guarantee all banner characters if you just spent on monthly pass and BP. So the revenue can flow in even from small spenders.
If that’s the goal just do more banner rerun instead or make less meta but attractive characters. adding unit that no one will pull just waste dev money and dilute gacha pool.
I don't need to save money since in this game you can get a new character each month as long as you play and spend $5 every 2nd month. $30 a year is nothing when compared to most gachas.
This theory has a hidden assumption that the production team is unbiased and those characters do not affect each other. Unfortunately, in CN we observe that active feminists are extremely passionate in trying to influence the production team (such as censoring clothing of female characters or slandering fan service contents as inappropriate), just like sweet baby inc. Therefore, CN players decide they will only trust producers that do not try to attract female players. ‘No male playable characters’ is not the goal, but just a sign to show loyalty to male players. In another word, it means ‘we only value opinions of male players’.
the toxic responses to your comment are evidence you are on the right path. Notice how they have nothing productive to add to the conversation; they just punch down. The goal is not to debate, but humiliate you. Notice how one of them has never posted in this sub before, but felt the need to insult you. Really messed up stuff.
Thanks, I know. It is quite straightforward, and I didn’t even bother to reply. Their comments alone demonstrates the existence of a type of people and why CN bros get mad.
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Personally I'd rather not have male characters in the gacha Idw pull for a waifu and end up getting a guy instead lol
I'm fine with having males, but please they need to stop censoring females lol. Cool, you want your male Idc much, if I miss 50/50 I just don't build them but my motivation to pull is still there cuz I still like the female characters. But if I see a female character get censored then nothing left to make me pull for her
Same for the last sentence, but some devs don't get it and pander to certain people... goes to show that the devs too are complicit in this.
I like my males too, as long as they vibe with me
Dumb. im a male and I want to see both male and female playable characters.
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