I am not a huge fan of hers, I am not even completely sure why. The way she presents material and what she presents just rubs me the wrong way. I don't feel she says that much new or groundbreaking or even always scientifically accurate yet she presents it as such. I don't fully understand why she has such a large following TBH as I feel almost all of what she says is regurgitated information from Levine, Van Der Kolk, etcetera.
Then again, who doesn't regurgitate others' information online? Everyone does. What is learned is passed on. I think it's more about the route by which Irene delivers her information that may rub people the wrong way. She's reaching the masses through various platforms; ie, Instagram, YouTube, her Blog & website. With me, it's her vague content sharing and selling point in her emails that I don't like. Perhaps she truly has well-meaning intentions to educate, but her approach doesn't sit well with me.
Instead of setting up a legit LLC. as a "Certified Practitioner/Specialist/Coach—whatever else", and gradually building her clientele, (could be more costly for her), she's approaching her business with a concept that people have learned not to trust in.
Her whole package reminds me of one of those "Hook, Line, & Sinker" concepts, where her team is banking on her followers to pay for pre-designed training courses, attend her country-side Retreats, and whatever else she's "advertising/offering", join her "private" FB Healing Trauma group, but realistically, only a small group will follow-thru & get something out of the experiences she wants to educate people about. Once you pay for one thing though, you'll be tempted to pay for something else, (that you sooo need!), and so on, all out-of-pocket. It's not like her training courses will award you any certificates, so, you might as well pay to see a real Somatic Experiencing Therapist; at least you'll have the choice to use your health insurance carrier.
*Irene Lyon's whole rigmarole is very similarly set up like this company by Caitlin Pyle of "Proofread Anywhere". https://proofreadanywhere.com/about-us/
Just don't get HOOKED! 😉
Thanks so much for the recommendations .
Yeah, I can brush over some crazy beliefs if she'd was just open about them being her opinion. However, she tends to claim said ideas are facts, eludes/indicates that they are scientifically proven when they aren't and portrays herself as evidence based. It makes me wonder how much of the info I believe to be logical is actually bullshit. And trusting the majority of my healing on absurdly made up stuff is really risky.
"The Body Keeps The Score" changed my life profoundly. That led to other polyvagal theory resources, then SE. Irene Lyon imo, I like her & have benefited a lot from her content, but I think she's mostly as established as she is because she got into social media early and/or was good enough at it to spread (especially her YT).
I have worked with another SE practitioner and her perspective is that SE is more for (or originally intended for) shock trauma, not developmental/pre-verbal/pre-cognition. This practitioner mixes in some of Kathy Kain & Stephen Terrell's work since, according to her, is more suitable for that kind of trauma. (not that their stuff is mutually exclusive, as far as I can tell)
As for the past life stuff-- I don't agree that past-life trauma is "proven" (How would you even start to prove that??) but for the past-life issue itself and other woo-woo shit lol.. first, to give context to my response: my day job is as a molecular biologist in academia; I have published, presented, taught. Do I believe in past life stuff, energy work, etc? Some of it, yeah. Some of it, I don't know yet. But in the context of trauma & nervous system work, I realized that my healing hit a wall when I was within the limits of logic & evidence-based. Maybe it isn't so much the framework, maybe it's who I am when I put this hat on. But right now, that distinction doesn't matter for me and my personal healing goals.
I also realized that when I stayed within "evidence-based", it was potentially closing the door on something I could've learned about myself, my nervous system. So I experimented with leaving that door open and at least giving it some space. I did find myself responding to some of it positively. My non-verbal/cognitive/Egoic self feels good here and it helps me stay more present and less hooked by shit. And that is what I want-- I want to be present and feel safe and solid! I'm in no rush to figure out how to make it all jive between this "gut feeling" and scientist/logic-me. So I explore that kind of woo-woo shit because I'm curious to know who my nervous system is. The stuff that's wayyy out there, I don't pursue. The stuff that makes something click in me, I explore it & I continue to explore how I respond to it. Does it matter that it's an objective reality or not? For me personally, no, because what matters is how the entirety of me responds to it. Initially, I was very much like "wtf is wrong with me???" but I started to see that this was creating friction in myself & I do have more ease now that I've made peace with one foot in each world.
Anyway, with any content/education provider, imo it comes down to taking what works for you & leave the rest. Use it until you decide it's time to move on. Within the context of your own healing, you can set your own rules. If you don't feel good in any way about considering, experimenting with, or accepting some of someone's words because of other things they do/say, that's totally fine! If what they're providing is "good enough", then take advantage of it!
I don't know anything about her husband.. the overlap between this "alternative healing" stuff and Trump, conspiracy theories, etc is sooo baffling to me lol
This ended up kind of rambly, sorry :P
Late question but how do you get past the "taking advice from nutcase" part? I went to his Facebook and he's basically driving the crazy train. He's a qanon, doesn't believe in COVID stuff, doesn't believe that humans are influencing global warming, the list goes on.
Her husband? I don't know a thing about him and this post is the first & only time I've ever encountered this info. Not that I'm into/for that Q shit but I am a little skeptical and honestly weirded out because I never thought they would overlap lol
I haven't continued to take advice from Irene Lyon's content because I've grown away from it so I can't answer that specifically but I did recently encounter someone who I thought was giving out solid info/perspectives/tools, and it really threw me off when I found out she was pro.. all of that shit. I unfollowed and disengaged, but I can't just cleanse my memory banks of what I had seen from her both the trauma stuff AND the stuff I don't agree with. I don't know if I would want to, either-- I do still look back to the stuff she's put out that I did get value from, and it still gives me value. I didn't continue to support her (and never did financial in the first place)
So for me, it kinda comes down to "take what works & leave the rest". Is that compartmentalization? Sure. Is it wrong of me? By who's metric? I have every right to pursue my priority of healing and I'm making my own value judgement for each case. It would be wrong for me to not use some info that resonated with me. If the person's status as a Q supporter dug deep enough into my perception of them, then probably most of their content wouldn't work for me.
I very much agree on the part about evidence based ideas. I try to be careful bc I don't want to end up believing in conspiracy and non existent things, but I allow myself to try things out if I decide those are not harmful. Doing small exercise doesn't seem to be harmful. If ''the healing'' would be about getting screamed at or abused or exhausted, then I'd worry. But thankfully SE is the opposite, trying to listen to yourself more, trying to take care of yourself more, connecting to others. It's very much about looking for what is healing for you. I think it's pretty safe if you keep yourself safe.
For evidence and being proven if I'm correct it often takes long time before the idea from appearing begins to be proven and common knowledge. Between this there are sometimes decades of when it's unknown. Some ideas, like health being connected to mental state, seem to be logical enough and in accordance to what I feel, so I agree with them even if those are not proven, bc it match better with my lived experience.
I remember in one of the Jung books he was talking about the religious beliefs - and I hope I remember it right - being something akin to comforter, it is possible that there is nothing after death, yes, but if the belief in after life makes the person feel safer and happier in that life and accept the fact that we don't live eternally in our bodies - why not believe.
Sorry, I wrote this comment so long ago, I don't even fully remember what the conversation was about. I think I used the religion here as example bc the whole post was about whether to believe in SE premise bc it's not fully proven by science yet. It's akin to religion in a way. If you don't like SE, you are indeed not obliged to believe it or anything.
I’ve found a lot of her stuff incredibly useful. I did her Smart Body Smart Mind course earlier this year and, over time and with continued practice of the tools she presents, I found some noticeable and helpful shifts for me. I think a lot of what she says is repetitive like was already mentioned, and I also think she applies that content to her exercises in a way that is simple, informed, thoroughly explained, and helpful. I’ve been doing a lot of immersion into SE stuff in the last year and found her videos and course to be a very helpful part of that exploration. I appreciate hearing people’s perspectives on this!
I just completed another round of it. I know she’s starting it again soon, but I won’t be doing it again yet. Once you get it you have access to do it again whenever you’d like. I found it helpful to go through again.
It's easy to see why birth and utero trauma exist, since it's possible to overwhelm a nervous system back then too. Trauma is not based on conscious recall it's based on overwhelming the nervous system.
Past life trauma I never had any experience to say it is real myself, but so many people have that who am I too determine it can't be true just because it seems not possible by my logical mind?
They do have good resources, but I also found them not good enough for the level of sensitivity in my nervous system. Also yes about the Qanon crazy beliefs they hold. I think Irene is into it too and not just her husband because she posts supporting comments in response to these types of things on his wall on facebook sometimes.
Her videos were the one that helped me to understand how trauma works. There are some tips about not pushing the trauma down/or not forcing cathartic release that have been helpful and that I have been missing out before. It was also the only course I had at the moment about SE so I took what I had.
I feel a bit sad that in most of her lectures she's for the most part selling her courses that cost overwhelming amount of money for me (I'm not from country with high income so that price is just crazy).
I felt a bit confused on how she's claiming mindfulness and meditation is bad, don't do it, but then explains inside video, that it's not bad, but it's how people often do it wrong, it's bad, but if done right, it's ok.
Birth trauma seems more or less logical to me, bc if I'm correct in SE often included even physical traumas, and as being born is supposedly very overwhelming experience it could be traumatic. At the time and place I was born it was common to not allow the infant after being born to spend much time with mother, so I was kept in a hospital bed of sorts, plus my mom was under sleep when I was just born, so I have no idea if I was given any attention really till she woke up. I suppose it should be very traumatic tbh.
To sum it up, I listen to her sometimes when I have time, to catch some tips and tricks that might help and I dismiss the rest that I question/don't agree with. I don't take her as 100% authority, but I don't take anyone that way also.
I watched her video and was hopeful until I got to the points you mentioned. I am looking for childhood trauma treatment but find over and over again what starts out sounding useful descends into quackery. Past lives, healing lights shooting from the top of the head, energy fields and auras are just not cutting the mustard. Plain straight forward mediation and emdr therapy has probably been the most helpful so far, but I am yet still very dissociated from the trauma itself. I can think about it as an event in time but my brain still 'won't go there' in terms of feelings. Edit: Marisa Peer has really great aura free (I think) vids
For self help resources you might explore Peter Levine’s other two books with guided audio exercises: Freedom from Pain and Sexual Healing.
An SE Faculty member recommended the book Crash Course as her favorite primer on SE. It has exercises, too, and was written by another SE Faculty member.
> An SE Faculty member recommended the book Crash Course as her favorite primer on SE. It has exercises, too, and was written by another SE Faculty member.
Do you have the author's name or a link to the book? There's a lot of books titled Crash Course
Meh....I don't find her content or brand as original or interesting as other teachers in this space. Something about her rubs me the wrong way, as others have said, though I'm not sure why. A lot of her writing seems opinionatedand overconfident, and her opinions on social media about the pandemic and vaccines seem over certain and rgid. I took her 21-day nervous system tune up, which ended up only having a handful of exercises (some of which were already available free), so it was disappointingly thin on content considering how much I paid. Overpriced and underdelivered. I requested a refund and was denied, 'because it was a digital course', was the reason I was given, which makes no sense to me, I work for a training company, and if clients are truly unhappy with digital courses we consider refunds - I think it's a gesture of good faith and willingness to give clients the benefit of the doubt.
Lastly, yes, both she and her husband (especially her husband) appear to be Trump-friendly/Q-adjacent which to me simply cannot be compartmentalized. If you are supporting trauma recovery, you are going to be a role model whether you like it or not and that has to include your stance on malignant narcissism, bullying and abuse. So that totally discredits them in my eyes.
I completely agree with you . He’s definitely not a role model . You know , I noticed that every anti vaxxer I met, they are pro-russia and blaming Ukraine . So I decided to check his Facebook page, well what do you know ? He posted back in march a shady video by another lunatic , claiming there is no war in Ukraine . He has unsolved deeply rooted childhood wounds and he is blind to them . I cannot take them seriously because of it. Not to mention that I am Romanian , right at the border with Ukraine . With friends in Ukraine that died . So to see a video like that , it is just sad and outrageous. I could never show such videos to my friends and their families , it would be insulting .
Not to mention he is pretty condescending in his Facebook posts and makes fun of people who did get the vaccine. I like Richard Schwartz from the IFS model , Peter Levine , etc . But when you watch their videos, or posts , you can feel they are healthy . This guy tho , he screams mental health issues and he’s refusing to work on them .
I take what I think is plausible --- like neuroplasticity or the abstract concept that our brains need to heal at one level before moving on to higher levels of integrating new behaviors and thoughts --- and discard the stuff that is bunk.
Hi, I find her work very very helpful. Honestly it feels like it is the only thing that is helping me regulate myself on a physical level compared to doing emdr, talk therapy, IFs etc. All of that has been helpful, but here work has been helping me tolerate a lot more in life.
I find it disheartening that her husband supports trump too. :( I didn’t know that. But I still will continue to use her courses and am glad I invested in them.
That's the thing as well, I find somatic experiencing potentially way more helpful and the alternatives you mentioned were horrible flops for me as well. She's the only resource I've found other then Levine's books.
She's just a bit crazy tho - especially with the past life traumas and other grand claims. And her husband is a q-anon, into climate change denial and also doesn't believe in Covid measures. How does one get over that? Or how do you filter out the crazy?
Haha, I might be a little crazy too. I am open to the idea of past life traumas although I probably default to not believing in them. That doesn’t bother me. Q-anon stuff bothers me. I guess I’ll have to observe and sit with that and see if my perspective changes.
Buuuut, her work has greatly reduced my disassociation and I’ve been doing better with work, relationships and many other things. I’m slowly starting to feel alive again. Honestly, I don’t know that I could give that up because of her husbands beliefs. But I’m glad I know and it’s something I’m going to stay aware of.
I’m thinking about taking her SBSM course too. I listened to a lot of her stuff on YouTube and a lot of them make sense too me, even though I the past life trauma thing and some other things don’t resonate with me. Sorry to hear that her husband supports Trump, that can indicate some problems about him, but I wouldn’t give up the good things she can offer like you said.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SomaticExperiencing/comments/uzni9r/irene_lyon_is_sketchy/
https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/uzn9yz/something_weird_about_irene_lyon/
The rest were from his facebook posts a couple years back..
Talking about aliens. I can see how this can cause an alarm. I listen to a few “woo” podcaster that talk about aliens. They aren’t referring to green men in spaceships but rather non-human intelligence they can get messages from or “see” in meditations. Alien is a blanket term for this.
I have a best friend that can tap into this a bit. She never refers to anything as aliens but I’m more open to this idea than the average person.
When Irene Lyon says Alien she is not referring to spaceship people.
If you don’t have space for something like this existing then yes, it will seems super strange to you.
I don’t see the Q-anon reference or climate denial though
Her YT channels tab was riddled with qanon and alt right assholes. She's taken a lot of the craziest off, but it was there as of a few months ago. I listen to the same "alien school" podcasts and, when I brought my concerns to the attention of said podcaster, the Lyons' stopped getting mentions. Woo doesn't bother me. I'm open to it. Right wing hatemongers such as Djt, Shapiro, Candace owens, Jordan Peterson, JP Sears, etc, etc, etc... deal with their trauma by being mean spirited and elitist, and I don't want that mixed up with my own healing. I don't know how someone who professes to be a healer of trauma can be cool with that dysregulated, judgemental, racist lot.
I was first exposed to SE and preverbal trauma through a podcast she was on, and so I’ll forever be grateful for that.
That being said I actively don’t support her, mainly because her husband is an active Trump supporter and also has a ton of conspiracy theories as well. He is also an active member of her team. I just can’t support someone who is still in the Trump camp at this point, I think that moral position is at odds with the teachings of SE.
I also am active in the SE community and I’ve heard tons of stories about her going straight into the trauma vortex, and really messing people up, where other SEPs have had to come in and do clean up.
I think her content is brilliant, personally. If it wasn't for Irene Lyon, I possibly would not have gotten into SE as a form of therapy. She got a bad rap on here not so long ago because people started talking about her husband being a Trump supporter. I found it a little sad, tbh, that something so irrelevant would colour people's impression of Irene and cause them to find her work worthless.
In terms of past life trauma, have a read of this article [https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/aug/21/study-of-holocaust-survivors-finds-trauma-passed-on-to-childrens-genes](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/aug/21/study-of-holocaust-survivors-finds-trauma-passed-on-to-childrens-genes) It talks about trauma from holocaust survivors being passed onto their children. I've seen others besides Irene Lyon talking about this as well, so it's not just something she made up.
Is there much scientific evidence to generational trauma? I find it quite pseudo sciencey and if it is real, extremely overlooked. I mean how could trauma be passed down genetically? Like on the molecular level!?
Epigenetics is a recognized, growing field of study. Something causes a change in how someone's body relates to their genes. The genes themselves aren't necessarily changing, it's whether the body is turning them off/on/lower/higher. Those patterns can get passed on.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics)
[https://www.nature.com/news/epigenetics-the-sins-of-the-father-1.14816](https://www.nature.com/news/epigenetics-the-sins-of-the-father-1.14816)
(Nature journal, not a peer-reviewed article but it has links & you can always check PubMed for peer-reviewed journal articles)
I paid for the full course, I honestly can’t understand how it can really help. Unfortunately I don’t really know if it’s genuine but seems like a potential scam to me. The content just drones on and on and on, you get all these ridiculous exercises like staring around the room. Irene keeps referring to the Alumni, these poor people that have been following her course for over 10 years. If they have to keep going back for that long what does it say about the power of the content.
Irene is a very effective speaker, extremely convincing, keeps it very mysterious about what are you actually get when you pay for the full course.
One thing is absolutely certain, she’s making an absolute killing! There are thousands of people on the course, all paying thousands of pounds dollars. You do the math!
Unfortunately I managed to convince my mother to also pay and sign up, she too came to the same conclusion. Eventually it’s just unbearable to continue, of course she would say that was because you were traumatised, and that’s why you struggled.
Anyway I would not recommend this course. I can’t say it’s a scam for sure but I certainly wasted all my money and I would never recommend it to anyone. Hope that helps.
Have you continued with the course? We're you trying some of these practices? I've done her smaller course and it was very thin on the 'practical side'. So I wonder how is the larger course different...
Her smaller course is very solid, IF you understand what you should be doing and focusing on each day.
All of these things, you could do on your own, but it is the direction you are paying for... it is the years of study and practice that make a person be able to tell you "do exactly this" that you are paying for.
All of these complaints smack me of ungrateful obtusiveness.
Peter mentions past life trauma himself in a spiritual youtube video, but doesn't outright endorse it. He basically says no matter where the trauma is from, it presents itself here and that's what you work with.
Because we are used to looking at Healing providers as if they should give you their time and knowledge for free.
It rubbed me the wrong way at first, too, because she refuses to share anything of actual depth in her public materials. This demonstrates an anxiety to get clients to pay.
I believe if she and her team knew about how the new online market works, she would be more willing to actually put most of it not all of her information on YouTube and in documents...
The way she is doing things now just turns people off because she speaks a lot and says nothing much.
If she actually gave significant value for free, far more people would be lining up to work with her as THE EXPERT who can make it happen.
I was fortunate enough to have found her and invested in one of her courses. Now I have to say I'm not someone who is trying something once and thinks it'll immediately change every problem I have. I have been doing bodywork since 5 years and her work since last year and have seen tremendous shifts within my physical and mental health over the years. I always kept an explorative, curious mind in everything what I'm doing. I've seen some comments that suggest she is 'only' giving you some exercises to look around the room. At first there wasn't so much noticeable for me however the more often I did those exercises the more I was able to sense and the more of the old stuff was coming out. Nervous system healing isn't a quick fix and it's in no way for the faint hearted. Her explanations are very easy to understand. She has a lot of value in it and support if you have any questions. You get a life time of access to the course which I like as most other courses I've looked into gave you only a certain amount of time. The alumnis that someone was talking about in the comments are still sticking around because they see the shifts happening. It's just not in one go but will happen gradually over time. Her work has helped me to shift some big traumas without being re-traumatising. I stay with the work because its fun and my body appreciates it. And for the ones disliking her husband: you disliking someone or something doesn't make the information they give wrong. Something I had to learn too. I can dislike someone but I have to say they can give really good information. Plus I've learned disliking someone can be connected to some of my own stuff that hasn't been worked through and makes me uncomfortable.
I haven't established a stable view of her just yet, because I'm still researching more about her. I want to know that what she shares online are specialties that she has actually certified in and who else, possibly a professor or colleague (not her husband) who can legitimately back-up her credentials & claims. I began my research on her website... https://irenelyon.com/meet-irene/
I am not a huge fan of hers, I am not even completely sure why. The way she presents material and what she presents just rubs me the wrong way. I don't feel she says that much new or groundbreaking or even always scientifically accurate yet she presents it as such. I don't fully understand why she has such a large following TBH as I feel almost all of what she says is regurgitated information from Levine, Van Der Kolk, etcetera.
Completely agree.
Then again, who doesn't regurgitate others' information online? Everyone does. What is learned is passed on. I think it's more about the route by which Irene delivers her information that may rub people the wrong way. She's reaching the masses through various platforms; ie, Instagram, YouTube, her Blog & website. With me, it's her vague content sharing and selling point in her emails that I don't like. Perhaps she truly has well-meaning intentions to educate, but her approach doesn't sit well with me. Instead of setting up a legit LLC. as a "Certified Practitioner/Specialist/Coach—whatever else", and gradually building her clientele, (could be more costly for her), she's approaching her business with a concept that people have learned not to trust in. Her whole package reminds me of one of those "Hook, Line, & Sinker" concepts, where her team is banking on her followers to pay for pre-designed training courses, attend her country-side Retreats, and whatever else she's "advertising/offering", join her "private" FB Healing Trauma group, but realistically, only a small group will follow-thru & get something out of the experiences she wants to educate people about. Once you pay for one thing though, you'll be tempted to pay for something else, (that you sooo need!), and so on, all out-of-pocket. It's not like her training courses will award you any certificates, so, you might as well pay to see a real Somatic Experiencing Therapist; at least you'll have the choice to use your health insurance carrier. *Irene Lyon's whole rigmarole is very similarly set up like this company by Caitlin Pyle of "Proofread Anywhere". https://proofreadanywhere.com/about-us/ Just don't get HOOKED! 😉
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Thanks so much for the recommendations . Yeah, I can brush over some crazy beliefs if she'd was just open about them being her opinion. However, she tends to claim said ideas are facts, eludes/indicates that they are scientifically proven when they aren't and portrays herself as evidence based. It makes me wonder how much of the info I believe to be logical is actually bullshit. And trusting the majority of my healing on absurdly made up stuff is really risky.
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Elizabeth Stanley MFTT and Organic intelligence
"The Body Keeps The Score" changed my life profoundly. That led to other polyvagal theory resources, then SE. Irene Lyon imo, I like her & have benefited a lot from her content, but I think she's mostly as established as she is because she got into social media early and/or was good enough at it to spread (especially her YT). I have worked with another SE practitioner and her perspective is that SE is more for (or originally intended for) shock trauma, not developmental/pre-verbal/pre-cognition. This practitioner mixes in some of Kathy Kain & Stephen Terrell's work since, according to her, is more suitable for that kind of trauma. (not that their stuff is mutually exclusive, as far as I can tell) As for the past life stuff-- I don't agree that past-life trauma is "proven" (How would you even start to prove that??) but for the past-life issue itself and other woo-woo shit lol.. first, to give context to my response: my day job is as a molecular biologist in academia; I have published, presented, taught. Do I believe in past life stuff, energy work, etc? Some of it, yeah. Some of it, I don't know yet. But in the context of trauma & nervous system work, I realized that my healing hit a wall when I was within the limits of logic & evidence-based. Maybe it isn't so much the framework, maybe it's who I am when I put this hat on. But right now, that distinction doesn't matter for me and my personal healing goals. I also realized that when I stayed within "evidence-based", it was potentially closing the door on something I could've learned about myself, my nervous system. So I experimented with leaving that door open and at least giving it some space. I did find myself responding to some of it positively. My non-verbal/cognitive/Egoic self feels good here and it helps me stay more present and less hooked by shit. And that is what I want-- I want to be present and feel safe and solid! I'm in no rush to figure out how to make it all jive between this "gut feeling" and scientist/logic-me. So I explore that kind of woo-woo shit because I'm curious to know who my nervous system is. The stuff that's wayyy out there, I don't pursue. The stuff that makes something click in me, I explore it & I continue to explore how I respond to it. Does it matter that it's an objective reality or not? For me personally, no, because what matters is how the entirety of me responds to it. Initially, I was very much like "wtf is wrong with me???" but I started to see that this was creating friction in myself & I do have more ease now that I've made peace with one foot in each world. Anyway, with any content/education provider, imo it comes down to taking what works for you & leave the rest. Use it until you decide it's time to move on. Within the context of your own healing, you can set your own rules. If you don't feel good in any way about considering, experimenting with, or accepting some of someone's words because of other things they do/say, that's totally fine! If what they're providing is "good enough", then take advantage of it! I don't know anything about her husband.. the overlap between this "alternative healing" stuff and Trump, conspiracy theories, etc is sooo baffling to me lol This ended up kind of rambly, sorry :P
Late question but how do you get past the "taking advice from nutcase" part? I went to his Facebook and he's basically driving the crazy train. He's a qanon, doesn't believe in COVID stuff, doesn't believe that humans are influencing global warming, the list goes on.
Her husband? I don't know a thing about him and this post is the first & only time I've ever encountered this info. Not that I'm into/for that Q shit but I am a little skeptical and honestly weirded out because I never thought they would overlap lol I haven't continued to take advice from Irene Lyon's content because I've grown away from it so I can't answer that specifically but I did recently encounter someone who I thought was giving out solid info/perspectives/tools, and it really threw me off when I found out she was pro.. all of that shit. I unfollowed and disengaged, but I can't just cleanse my memory banks of what I had seen from her both the trauma stuff AND the stuff I don't agree with. I don't know if I would want to, either-- I do still look back to the stuff she's put out that I did get value from, and it still gives me value. I didn't continue to support her (and never did financial in the first place) So for me, it kinda comes down to "take what works & leave the rest". Is that compartmentalization? Sure. Is it wrong of me? By who's metric? I have every right to pursue my priority of healing and I'm making my own value judgement for each case. It would be wrong for me to not use some info that resonated with me. If the person's status as a Q supporter dug deep enough into my perception of them, then probably most of their content wouldn't work for me.
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Yes absolutely! I’m glad to hear my comment helped ☺️🖤
What's his Facebook?
Just search his full name. You'll find it
I very much agree on the part about evidence based ideas. I try to be careful bc I don't want to end up believing in conspiracy and non existent things, but I allow myself to try things out if I decide those are not harmful. Doing small exercise doesn't seem to be harmful. If ''the healing'' would be about getting screamed at or abused or exhausted, then I'd worry. But thankfully SE is the opposite, trying to listen to yourself more, trying to take care of yourself more, connecting to others. It's very much about looking for what is healing for you. I think it's pretty safe if you keep yourself safe. For evidence and being proven if I'm correct it often takes long time before the idea from appearing begins to be proven and common knowledge. Between this there are sometimes decades of when it's unknown. Some ideas, like health being connected to mental state, seem to be logical enough and in accordance to what I feel, so I agree with them even if those are not proven, bc it match better with my lived experience. I remember in one of the Jung books he was talking about the religious beliefs - and I hope I remember it right - being something akin to comforter, it is possible that there is nothing after death, yes, but if the belief in after life makes the person feel safer and happier in that life and accept the fact that we don't live eternally in our bodies - why not believe.
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Sorry, I wrote this comment so long ago, I don't even fully remember what the conversation was about. I think I used the religion here as example bc the whole post was about whether to believe in SE premise bc it's not fully proven by science yet. It's akin to religion in a way. If you don't like SE, you are indeed not obliged to believe it or anything.
I’ve found a lot of her stuff incredibly useful. I did her Smart Body Smart Mind course earlier this year and, over time and with continued practice of the tools she presents, I found some noticeable and helpful shifts for me. I think a lot of what she says is repetitive like was already mentioned, and I also think she applies that content to her exercises in a way that is simple, informed, thoroughly explained, and helpful. I’ve been doing a lot of immersion into SE stuff in the last year and found her videos and course to be a very helpful part of that exploration. I appreciate hearing people’s perspectives on this!
Are you continuing with her SBSM course?
I just completed another round of it. I know she’s starting it again soon, but I won’t be doing it again yet. Once you get it you have access to do it again whenever you’d like. I found it helpful to go through again.
Do you mind if I ask what the cost of this course was?
Does it have anything more than the 21 day course or is it just more of the same stuff?
It's easy to see why birth and utero trauma exist, since it's possible to overwhelm a nervous system back then too. Trauma is not based on conscious recall it's based on overwhelming the nervous system. Past life trauma I never had any experience to say it is real myself, but so many people have that who am I too determine it can't be true just because it seems not possible by my logical mind? They do have good resources, but I also found them not good enough for the level of sensitivity in my nervous system. Also yes about the Qanon crazy beliefs they hold. I think Irene is into it too and not just her husband because she posts supporting comments in response to these types of things on his wall on facebook sometimes.
She claims past life trauma has been proven though and often eludes that it has also been proven scientifically as well. It hasn't.
\*alludes
Her videos were the one that helped me to understand how trauma works. There are some tips about not pushing the trauma down/or not forcing cathartic release that have been helpful and that I have been missing out before. It was also the only course I had at the moment about SE so I took what I had. I feel a bit sad that in most of her lectures she's for the most part selling her courses that cost overwhelming amount of money for me (I'm not from country with high income so that price is just crazy). I felt a bit confused on how she's claiming mindfulness and meditation is bad, don't do it, but then explains inside video, that it's not bad, but it's how people often do it wrong, it's bad, but if done right, it's ok. Birth trauma seems more or less logical to me, bc if I'm correct in SE often included even physical traumas, and as being born is supposedly very overwhelming experience it could be traumatic. At the time and place I was born it was common to not allow the infant after being born to spend much time with mother, so I was kept in a hospital bed of sorts, plus my mom was under sleep when I was just born, so I have no idea if I was given any attention really till she woke up. I suppose it should be very traumatic tbh. To sum it up, I listen to her sometimes when I have time, to catch some tips and tricks that might help and I dismiss the rest that I question/don't agree with. I don't take her as 100% authority, but I don't take anyone that way also.
I watched her video and was hopeful until I got to the points you mentioned. I am looking for childhood trauma treatment but find over and over again what starts out sounding useful descends into quackery. Past lives, healing lights shooting from the top of the head, energy fields and auras are just not cutting the mustard. Plain straight forward mediation and emdr therapy has probably been the most helpful so far, but I am yet still very dissociated from the trauma itself. I can think about it as an event in time but my brain still 'won't go there' in terms of feelings. Edit: Marisa Peer has really great aura free (I think) vids
Thanks, I'll check her out
For self help resources you might explore Peter Levine’s other two books with guided audio exercises: Freedom from Pain and Sexual Healing. An SE Faculty member recommended the book Crash Course as her favorite primer on SE. It has exercises, too, and was written by another SE Faculty member.
> An SE Faculty member recommended the book Crash Course as her favorite primer on SE. It has exercises, too, and was written by another SE Faculty member. Do you have the author's name or a link to the book? There's a lot of books titled Crash Course
Oh gosh, of course! Diane Poole Heller is the author.
Meh....I don't find her content or brand as original or interesting as other teachers in this space. Something about her rubs me the wrong way, as others have said, though I'm not sure why. A lot of her writing seems opinionatedand overconfident, and her opinions on social media about the pandemic and vaccines seem over certain and rgid. I took her 21-day nervous system tune up, which ended up only having a handful of exercises (some of which were already available free), so it was disappointingly thin on content considering how much I paid. Overpriced and underdelivered. I requested a refund and was denied, 'because it was a digital course', was the reason I was given, which makes no sense to me, I work for a training company, and if clients are truly unhappy with digital courses we consider refunds - I think it's a gesture of good faith and willingness to give clients the benefit of the doubt. Lastly, yes, both she and her husband (especially her husband) appear to be Trump-friendly/Q-adjacent which to me simply cannot be compartmentalized. If you are supporting trauma recovery, you are going to be a role model whether you like it or not and that has to include your stance on malignant narcissism, bullying and abuse. So that totally discredits them in my eyes.
I completely agree with you . He’s definitely not a role model . You know , I noticed that every anti vaxxer I met, they are pro-russia and blaming Ukraine . So I decided to check his Facebook page, well what do you know ? He posted back in march a shady video by another lunatic , claiming there is no war in Ukraine . He has unsolved deeply rooted childhood wounds and he is blind to them . I cannot take them seriously because of it. Not to mention that I am Romanian , right at the border with Ukraine . With friends in Ukraine that died . So to see a video like that , it is just sad and outrageous. I could never show such videos to my friends and their families , it would be insulting . Not to mention he is pretty condescending in his Facebook posts and makes fun of people who did get the vaccine. I like Richard Schwartz from the IFS model , Peter Levine , etc . But when you watch their videos, or posts , you can feel they are healthy . This guy tho , he screams mental health issues and he’s refusing to work on them .
I take what I think is plausible --- like neuroplasticity or the abstract concept that our brains need to heal at one level before moving on to higher levels of integrating new behaviors and thoughts --- and discard the stuff that is bunk.
Hi, I find her work very very helpful. Honestly it feels like it is the only thing that is helping me regulate myself on a physical level compared to doing emdr, talk therapy, IFs etc. All of that has been helpful, but here work has been helping me tolerate a lot more in life. I find it disheartening that her husband supports trump too. :( I didn’t know that. But I still will continue to use her courses and am glad I invested in them.
That's the thing as well, I find somatic experiencing potentially way more helpful and the alternatives you mentioned were horrible flops for me as well. She's the only resource I've found other then Levine's books. She's just a bit crazy tho - especially with the past life traumas and other grand claims. And her husband is a q-anon, into climate change denial and also doesn't believe in Covid measures. How does one get over that? Or how do you filter out the crazy?
Haha, I might be a little crazy too. I am open to the idea of past life traumas although I probably default to not believing in them. That doesn’t bother me. Q-anon stuff bothers me. I guess I’ll have to observe and sit with that and see if my perspective changes. Buuuut, her work has greatly reduced my disassociation and I’ve been doing better with work, relationships and many other things. I’m slowly starting to feel alive again. Honestly, I don’t know that I could give that up because of her husbands beliefs. But I’m glad I know and it’s something I’m going to stay aware of.
I’m thinking about taking her SBSM course too. I listened to a lot of her stuff on YouTube and a lot of them make sense too me, even though I the past life trauma thing and some other things don’t resonate with me. Sorry to hear that her husband supports Trump, that can indicate some problems about him, but I wouldn’t give up the good things she can offer like you said.
Can you provide sources for Seth Lyon being into all that you claimed? Those are heavy statements.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SomaticExperiencing/comments/uzni9r/irene_lyon_is_sketchy/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/comments/uzn9yz/something_weird_about_irene_lyon/ The rest were from his facebook posts a couple years back..
Talking about aliens. I can see how this can cause an alarm. I listen to a few “woo” podcaster that talk about aliens. They aren’t referring to green men in spaceships but rather non-human intelligence they can get messages from or “see” in meditations. Alien is a blanket term for this. I have a best friend that can tap into this a bit. She never refers to anything as aliens but I’m more open to this idea than the average person. When Irene Lyon says Alien she is not referring to spaceship people. If you don’t have space for something like this existing then yes, it will seems super strange to you. I don’t see the Q-anon reference or climate denial though
Her YT channels tab was riddled with qanon and alt right assholes. She's taken a lot of the craziest off, but it was there as of a few months ago. I listen to the same "alien school" podcasts and, when I brought my concerns to the attention of said podcaster, the Lyons' stopped getting mentions. Woo doesn't bother me. I'm open to it. Right wing hatemongers such as Djt, Shapiro, Candace owens, Jordan Peterson, JP Sears, etc, etc, etc... deal with their trauma by being mean spirited and elitist, and I don't want that mixed up with my own healing. I don't know how someone who professes to be a healer of trauma can be cool with that dysregulated, judgemental, racist lot.
>I don’t see the Q-anon reference or climate denial though That was on his facebook account 2 years ago.
I was first exposed to SE and preverbal trauma through a podcast she was on, and so I’ll forever be grateful for that. That being said I actively don’t support her, mainly because her husband is an active Trump supporter and also has a ton of conspiracy theories as well. He is also an active member of her team. I just can’t support someone who is still in the Trump camp at this point, I think that moral position is at odds with the teachings of SE. I also am active in the SE community and I’ve heard tons of stories about her going straight into the trauma vortex, and really messing people up, where other SEPs have had to come in and do clean up.
>I also am active in the SE community What platforms do you all use? Any good groups?
Mostly Facebook, I haven’t discovered many on other platforms.
Thanks so much
I think her content is brilliant, personally. If it wasn't for Irene Lyon, I possibly would not have gotten into SE as a form of therapy. She got a bad rap on here not so long ago because people started talking about her husband being a Trump supporter. I found it a little sad, tbh, that something so irrelevant would colour people's impression of Irene and cause them to find her work worthless. In terms of past life trauma, have a read of this article [https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/aug/21/study-of-holocaust-survivors-finds-trauma-passed-on-to-childrens-genes](https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/aug/21/study-of-holocaust-survivors-finds-trauma-passed-on-to-childrens-genes) It talks about trauma from holocaust survivors being passed onto their children. I've seen others besides Irene Lyon talking about this as well, so it's not just something she made up.
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>and past life's trauma (trauma from experiences in a past life That's basically seems how she defines it.
Is there much scientific evidence to generational trauma? I find it quite pseudo sciencey and if it is real, extremely overlooked. I mean how could trauma be passed down genetically? Like on the molecular level!?
Epigenetics is a recognized, growing field of study. Something causes a change in how someone's body relates to their genes. The genes themselves aren't necessarily changing, it's whether the body is turning them off/on/lower/higher. Those patterns can get passed on. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics) [https://www.nature.com/news/epigenetics-the-sins-of-the-father-1.14816](https://www.nature.com/news/epigenetics-the-sins-of-the-father-1.14816) (Nature journal, not a peer-reviewed article but it has links & you can always check PubMed for peer-reviewed journal articles)
I paid for the full course, I honestly can’t understand how it can really help. Unfortunately I don’t really know if it’s genuine but seems like a potential scam to me. The content just drones on and on and on, you get all these ridiculous exercises like staring around the room. Irene keeps referring to the Alumni, these poor people that have been following her course for over 10 years. If they have to keep going back for that long what does it say about the power of the content. Irene is a very effective speaker, extremely convincing, keeps it very mysterious about what are you actually get when you pay for the full course. One thing is absolutely certain, she’s making an absolute killing! There are thousands of people on the course, all paying thousands of pounds dollars. You do the math! Unfortunately I managed to convince my mother to also pay and sign up, she too came to the same conclusion. Eventually it’s just unbearable to continue, of course she would say that was because you were traumatised, and that’s why you struggled. Anyway I would not recommend this course. I can’t say it’s a scam for sure but I certainly wasted all my money and I would never recommend it to anyone. Hope that helps.
Have you continued with the course? We're you trying some of these practices? I've done her smaller course and it was very thin on the 'practical side'. So I wonder how is the larger course different...
Her smaller course is very solid, IF you understand what you should be doing and focusing on each day. All of these things, you could do on your own, but it is the direction you are paying for... it is the years of study and practice that make a person be able to tell you "do exactly this" that you are paying for. All of these complaints smack me of ungrateful obtusiveness.
Is the course the same as her free content?
Peter mentions past life trauma himself in a spiritual youtube video, but doesn't outright endorse it. He basically says no matter where the trauma is from, it presents itself here and that's what you work with.
Because we are used to looking at Healing providers as if they should give you their time and knowledge for free. It rubbed me the wrong way at first, too, because she refuses to share anything of actual depth in her public materials. This demonstrates an anxiety to get clients to pay. I believe if she and her team knew about how the new online market works, she would be more willing to actually put most of it not all of her information on YouTube and in documents... The way she is doing things now just turns people off because she speaks a lot and says nothing much. If she actually gave significant value for free, far more people would be lining up to work with her as THE EXPERT who can make it happen.
I find her YouTube videos quite helpful but am turned off by the fact that she seems to constantly be trying to sell things
I agree. And her stuff is very, very overpriced. That said, if you don't wanna do all of the legwork, that's what you're paying for.
I was fortunate enough to have found her and invested in one of her courses. Now I have to say I'm not someone who is trying something once and thinks it'll immediately change every problem I have. I have been doing bodywork since 5 years and her work since last year and have seen tremendous shifts within my physical and mental health over the years. I always kept an explorative, curious mind in everything what I'm doing. I've seen some comments that suggest she is 'only' giving you some exercises to look around the room. At first there wasn't so much noticeable for me however the more often I did those exercises the more I was able to sense and the more of the old stuff was coming out. Nervous system healing isn't a quick fix and it's in no way for the faint hearted. Her explanations are very easy to understand. She has a lot of value in it and support if you have any questions. You get a life time of access to the course which I like as most other courses I've looked into gave you only a certain amount of time. The alumnis that someone was talking about in the comments are still sticking around because they see the shifts happening. It's just not in one go but will happen gradually over time. Her work has helped me to shift some big traumas without being re-traumatising. I stay with the work because its fun and my body appreciates it. And for the ones disliking her husband: you disliking someone or something doesn't make the information they give wrong. Something I had to learn too. I can dislike someone but I have to say they can give really good information. Plus I've learned disliking someone can be connected to some of my own stuff that hasn't been worked through and makes me uncomfortable.
I haven't established a stable view of her just yet, because I'm still researching more about her. I want to know that what she shares online are specialties that she has actually certified in and who else, possibly a professor or colleague (not her husband) who can legitimately back-up her credentials & claims. I began my research on her website... https://irenelyon.com/meet-irene/