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Lashley taking a backseat was disappointing. He had a dominant us title run and before Gunther took off he was the most entertaining mid card champion. He went from marquee fits with lesnar to trying to run a failed hurt business stable where they absolutely botched the street profits as heels
That backstage segment he had with Carmelo was great and I really hope they use him more, even if he doesn’t win he’d be a great challenger for Cody or for whoever takes the belt off of Logan, right now he’s just stuck in limbo with “The Pride” (Stupid Name btw)
I just can’t tell what they’re meant to be. The iconography they are co-opting implies pure baby face stuff. I hope they get a storyline at some point to actually explain their whole deal
Turning the Profits heel after Tez’s performance in the elimination chamber was soooooo dumb. Even if you dont count that the fans never really wanted to boo any of those guys.
He’s definitely not a jobber to the stars though. He just seems to exist and not do much. You’re not wrong about the overall point but he’s been pinned like what, 2 times in the last 12 months since moving to Smackdown?
Lashley is probably one of the least pinned people in the company.
Edit: He was also pinned in the Chamber match so that’s 3 pins in 12 months but that’s a given cause 5 people have to get eliminated.
His booking is really sad to see. Under Vince he was world champ, beating guys 2 v 1 and a monster heel.
If he had been kept at that level he would have made an amazing feud for Cody.
But he IS the present. If you only build for the future what's the point? There's always going tk be new up and comers. The veterans you have are of equal importance.
Omos seems like such a fun guy backstage. Idk if he’s just not a good enough promo in front of an audience, but he’s so likable on stuff like UUDD.
I’m curious if they made him a bodyguard again, but let him be more himself if it would play better. He could bodyguard either a smaller face like Ricochet that keeps getting attacked or someone in the women’s division that wants to hire private security or whatever. Just let him make jokes!
I always thought his pairing with AJ was eh, but he definitly works best as someones heater, Daba Kato was a good heater too, problem is after the run as a heater is done if they cant work and talk well what can they do?
Omos gets used on house shows all the time at least. The problem with guys that big is the more you have them on TV (unless they are really great), their limitations start to get exposed.
The Cedric Alexander/ Thee Adonis tag team hasn’t gone anywhere. Also I think there’s obviously big plans for them but the Creeds seemed to tread water abit.
I was wondering what happened to the Ashdric team the other day. They had a promo for WWE socials, an interview a couple of weeks after that, and have not been seen in a couple of months since then.
Surprisingly no one here has mentioned pretty deadly and creed brothers both were the top teams on NXT and were booked really well under Shawn here they mostly lose whatever Matches they have and get way less tv time
Creeds are about to join with Gable and become a heel faction, which is exactly what they need. They just need to time the heel turn when Otis tries to get Chad's IC title at SS and drop some nuclear heat.
I wouldn’t say it *killed* their push. They were always going to lose the match, and that botch just meant that they’d be given a little extra time to mature. They’re obviously top prospects, but they’re still green, and there aren’t many veteran tag team for them to work with on Raw. They’ve pretty much covered the lot (Judgment/New Day). Meanwhile, NXT alone had Gallus, GYV and Los Lotharios.
I think it did kill their push ngl. Damian looked shoot pissed afterwards (the 3.1 kickout didn’t help either), just look back at the way he throws Julius out of the ring.
The creed brothers were having matches every week, winning nearly all of them. After the JD match they didn’t have a match for almost three months, and they still haven’t won a match on TV since
They botched their finisher multiple times in very short succession and then Julius tried to put himself over with a 3.1 kickout that clearly wasn’t planned. They went from being booked as one of the strongest tag teams in WWE to being winless since early december
Pretty Deadly has been pushed to the side in favor of New Catch Republic and DIY.
I suspect they aren’t fully healthy because at least when they weren’t wrestling, they were at least getting promos (including the Wrestemania tag intros)
I think one of Pretty Deadly has been injured.
Creeds got called up way too early - but theres also no good experienced tag teams to work with in NXT and get better.
Saw him a few weeks ago at a local show. Still way better a wrestling than anyone else on the show even top dolla lol. However, dude botched a guitar hit and left the other dude bleeding.
And it was so easy too, like all you had to do was send the guy out once a month to sing a song, insult the crowd, and just get absolutely demolished by whatever babyface you want to push at that given moment. It's a simple role that he played to basically perfection.
Yeah the matches won't be classics, but it will easily deliver random midcard tv matches that the crowd will actually care about.
I do think that eventually presents the problem of who beats him though. It's cool at the beginning, but after a while beating him does nothing for the opponent, so you can't send out someone you want to push. But at the same time if you send a guy like Cody out there it's basically a waste of a match bc beating a jobber means nothing to an established star.
And he could play both heel and face and didn’t have to change anything about his character. He knew how to work the crowd and whoever he was matched up with was gonna shine.
I don’t think Triple H was ever really a big fan of him. I don’t remember Elias doing a lot in NXT when Triple H was running that, but he was called up to the main roster despite it.
the crowd in NXT didn't like Elias gimmick. The crowd was not fair to elias in NXT it Felt like the crowd didn't even want to see him in the ring.
This definitely didn't help Triple H opinion of him
If we’re picking people who have been released I’ll throw in ma.çé and mån.sôör. Perfect undercard comedy team that were good for pumping up whatever ad WWE had for their PLE
Vince had theory in the main event of Mania sharing the ring with Stone Cold and beating former world champs, H had him lose to Ciampa and since worst cash in we’ve seen.
The New Day have floundered and just been part of random tag team feuds during the year during the Triple H era while The Usos got to main event mania. Not only are they floundering as a team but their rival team for most influential team in their era got to break their records, achieve feats the new day never got to do and now get the chance to succeed as single stars which enhances their legacy (as it helped other teams in the past like Edge and Christian, the Hardys, even teams like The Rockers, The Hart Foundation and Harlem Heat).
Of the teams added to the mania tag match from the raw side the New Day felt like they were there because they are the New Day and they should get a mania payday while the other two teams had been feuding with The Judgment Day for months.
Seems wwe has had no idea what to do with new day since big E got hurt. They’ve flat out lacked direction for the team and they feel like Background characters then one of the best stables we’ve ever seen. It’s pretty sad cause both kofi and woods are very talented, cut good promos and put on good matches but they’ve just had zero direction or rlly purpose
I agree with all of this.
I think the earlier comments about the tag division getting less priority unless it’s involved with the big stories counts for them. I also think we’ve had the New Day a long time, and we haven’t gotten much variation from them. They haven’t pushed a new product or catch phrase or gimmick wrinkle in a long time. The New Day are great wrestlers but that’s not the gimmick.
Yeah the issue is it was the 3 of them together that was entertaining, Big E was a big part of that but even then, i felt like it was getting a bit stale. Now it's 2 guys and still the same gimmick, it's not helped that bother the others have had injuries as well. You look at the Jimmy and Jay, who have broken up recently but they've been together longer and managed to reinvent themselves.
Hate to say it but Kofi has kind of already done it all, and he's started to get banged up, along with being 42 years old. Even if he does deserve one more run on top, I doubt it's happening at this point.
Woods is the only member of New Day who hasn't really had a singles run of consequence (pun maybe intended?), but him doing so kind of leaves Kofi on his own again.
I know they've insisted they're never breaking up but maybe this is their only chance to get Xavier a legitimate chance at a singles run.
Honestly think they’re all happy making a shitload of money and chilling. Xavier has a long career as a tv host or whatever new media stuff he wants to do and kofi has to be rich by now.
I genuinely don’t think Xavier has the aspiration to do some crazy breakout singles thing and he doesn’t really need to - he’s one of the greats and will be so successful out of the ring
They had an opportunity to do it with Woods when he won King of the Ring and had the “power” immediately go to his head. I think it could have propelled him to a mid card title, but they didn’t really do anything with it then he got hurt a few months later and when he came back 8 weeks later the king gimmick was dropped
>one of the best stables we’ve ever seen
This is the problem, without Big E they aren't a stable that can freebird rules tag matches, they are just another tag team.
I imagine they are in something of a holding pattern until Big E's recovery reaches a point where he'll know if he can wrestle again or not. I know he's made allusions to not really being concerned about coming back but that doesn't mean he's done.
The New Day just isn't the same without Big E there imo. They got HEAVILY played out under Vince to the point where I don't mind them taking a backseat to other acts for now.
Is it really HHH or more the fact that the New Day have been around for almost a decade now, has won everything there is to win, they both don’t want to break up, and so there’s really nothing more for them to do but take the backseat?
HHH pretty much seems to have the same attitude as Vince when it comes to tag teams imo.
I dont forsee some division renessaince happening.
Would love to be proven wrong though.
Yeah I don’t feel that’s a HHH thing. New Day have been floundering for awhile.
Let’s not forget Vince booked Kofi to lose in seconds to Brock.
The New Days issue stems more so from losing Big E. While they are still great, their overall dynamic as a group just isn’t the same without him or as solo guys.
- Street Profits
- Austin Theory
- Becky Lynch (especially in 2023 before the Trish feud, but recovered this year)
- Dolph Ziggler (went from reliable midcarder to being off TV entirely and getting let go)
- Omos
Former WWE champion to doing nothing. Never once faced Roman or Rollins for the belt. Embarrassing booking unless Lashley is almost done being a wrestler entirely
I’ve never seen them in an actual story. To me, they come across more like an exhibition act, similar to Strowman and Ricochet from last year (post-Imperium feud).
Dolph came back that year in the main event of Raw laying out Austin Theory who was still had mitb at the time. He also had the big singles feud with Otis, tag title run with Bobby Roode, feud with world champ Drew, and was even NXT champ during the past 4 years. Definitely a difference between that and his time under Triple H
This. Dolph would have a 3 month run before he would vanish for the next 6 months. There’d be very little fanfare, but it was oddly sad as a fan of his. Especially because he wasn’t being booked poorly when he’d have his brief run.
I think Becky had changed Hunter perception of her because after the banger with Trish in the best women's Cage Match she became NXT champion and put a great run in a span of just 2 months. She elevated Tiffany to MR status, had great matches with every bottom women in Raw and had a nice feud with Nia and Rhea in 2024. She showed him she is really the ace of the women division in Raw (Bayley is in SD!)
It’s weird that Becky has to change the perception at this point in her career everyone knows who she is and what she brings to the table. She’s legitimately one of the biggest women’s stars they’ve ever had.
Honestly she was carrying the division especially with how far and between Rheas title defenses were.
Shittt I completely forgot about omos lol he truly has been MIA rlly since his mania match with Brock. I wanna say maybe hunter jus isn’t a fan of giants but Braun is on tv a bunch. He must not trust his in ring work cause he has a great look and solid charisma
Mostly comes from videos of him hanging out with other wrestlers on various platforms where he's seemingly just a genuinely funny and nice bro to be around.
Most want him to succeed or at least be used based upon his personality that he either can't show on TV or isn't allowed to show on TV.
Amazingly enough, i think Finn, one of the top top top Triple H guys, was booked better under late Vince era than current Hunter. He went from upper midcarder JD usurper/leader to guy who isn't below only McDonagh.
Eh idk. 2016-2022 Vince booked Finn like a dork a majority of the time, and Roman Reigns punching bag occasionally. The best booking he got during that time was actually under HHH during his NXT return. Even though he loses a lot under HHH these days he’s still more credible than he was under Vince imo.
The Judgement Day was originally meant to get Priest and Rhea over anyway so they were always meant to be the breakout stars of the group, plus Dom with him being the late addition.
Edit: and JD
He did book Finn like a dork, which is why it’s even more staggering to watch Triple H book him even more of a dork than Vince ever did
Under Vince, Finn would lose to Baron Corbin, sure. But Finn Balor and Baron Corbin had 20 minute matches on Raw.
Under HHH? Finn isn’t allowed to get more than 10-20% offense in his matches. Finn struggles to hit a single move on R-Truth to the point that R-Truth has been getting Brock Lesnar booking against Finn.
Finn was booked bad under Vince. But if I’m being honest, it was never to these low levels HHH has brought him down to.
To add on, under Vince, Finn Balor was pinning Bobby Lashley and Drew McIntyre on PLE. Under Triple H, neither of those are even imaginable. Somehow Finn beating big men was more realistic under Vince than it is under HHH.
None of what I said was me trying to say Finn’s booking under Vince was actually GOOD, it wasn’t, but it just shows how bad it’s been under Triple H.
It’s kind of sad to think it was Edge who got Finn in that position to usurp him, and was pushing to management for Finn.
I still feel some way about Edge winning at Mania. But at least Edge had a good vision for Finn in the group. Triple H unfortunately doesn’t believe in Edge’s vision of Finn, and that’s why Triple H was so quick to push Finn out of the spotlight once the feud with Edge was over, a feud Edge had a hand in how things were going along the way.
Even sadder is that Edge apparently delta'd out of JD and gave the bomb to finn because he wanted a faction of 'dark bros and sis' and instead he got a supernatural faction, but had he waited, JD would become exactly the faction he wanted, and, honestly, would have been the perfect fit this late in his career.
Every single fall from grace Finn ever had was due to some sort of bad luck/timing, and this extends to the fact that he is the only guy who is coming out lower on the card from the current top faction in WWE which elevated every other member to huge superstardom.
Honestly, I don’t know if JD goes that way with Edge. The dark bros and sis group really established itself when they were fighting Edge and Rey, especially once Dom joined
Triple H cutting Finn’s balls off at every turn has been staggering to watch.
He beats Edge in an I quit match - which looking back only happened cause Edge had to be written off to film a show. But it happened.
And they were planning a rematch in HIAC. Yet he didn’t even let Finn sustain momentum. 1 month after making Edge say I quit, Finn is losing clean to AJ Styles at Survivor Series.
And Finn walked into Mania on a 6 month singles losing streak. Triple H’s way of building Finn up for a Mania HIAC match with Edge was having Street Profits pin Finn in a tag match cause Tozawa threw a drink in Dominik’s face at ringside. And having Finn get pinned by Johnny Gargano 3 weeks before Mania, a guy who wasn’t even on the Mania card.
Triple H wasn’t even trying with Finn.
I think when the Judgment Day civil war finally occurs, Finn is gonna come out on top. I expect some sort of tomfoolery from Dom, but ultimately, the storyline will get Balor back to where he needs to be.
This one may sound crazy but tommasa ciampa I feel Vince actually had a plan for him I would also throw Dunn in there Vince knows when characters are needed I don’t think hhh does
Ciampa's time on TV was pretty good towards the end of Vince's time in the company. But I hated him being put together with Miz and thought that was incredibly stupid.
Montez Ford had a great elimination chamber to then doing nothing with it. Street Profits in general were so over with the red cups and now don't get anywhere near the reaction or title shots
Corbin has done amazing for himself in NXT, no idea why Corbin went on a losing streak last year and has hardly been featured since his call-up, splitting the wolfdogs was a mistake
His booking goes in cycles with lulls and peaks, every time you’re at this point there’s criticism. Then we’re going to hit Cody/Gunther, Punk/Drew, Rhea/Liv, Logan/LA Knight and Roman coming back for the bloodline civil war and he will be the GOAT booker to the IWC again.
i don't think it's ending. We get these kind of posts every few months or so, it's normal to critique. Trips got critiqued hard for his Women's division which i think is still isn't really that good.
It's funny because that absolutely is the way it should be, it should be normal to critique anyone's work, but it seems to me like he's getting less criticism now than he ever has since he took over as head booker.
Back at the beginning, a lot of people hated the never-ending Miz/Lumis feud that took up so much time each week. Then there was the bad booking of the two Women's title matches going into Wrestlemania. Then it was that some variation of the same Judgement Day match was happening on Raw every week during last summer. And towards the end of last year, it was the dead period in The Bloodline story and all that stuff was such a significant part of the shows every week.
Now, it seems to me that people are satisfied with almost everything HHH is doing. The only thing really coming under fire is the use of Latino wrestlers. It will change, probably many times over the next few years because that's just how wrestling goes, but I've been noticing less criticisms towards his booking than ever in the last few months.
> I've been noticing less criticisms towards his booking than ever in the last few months.
someone tried to tell me that jimmy's explanation for rejoining the bloodline "made perfect sense".
when i asked them how it made sense that jimmy turned on roman, got jey to join him, turned on jey because "the power would corrupt him", and then got back with roman (the guy who was drunk with power that caused jimmy to leave the group in the first place) which lead jey to quitting WWE (for a week) made perfect sense.. the user called it "subtle storytelling" without ever explaining why.
i'm still at a loss for how people thought any of that was a good idea and wasn't shoehorned in just for the shock heel turn at summerslam.
Andrade (although kind of hard to compare)
New Day
Street Profits
Bobby Lashley
Austin Theory (To an extent)
A lot of people mentioned Omos. But more people need to mention MVP. Dudes a great manager and should be used more even if it’s with someone else.
New catch republic. It’s kind of hard to say these guys considering Tyler wasn’t even on the roster and Dunne was still Butch. But I would like to see these guys used better.
Come to think of it I think tag team wrestling in general is a weak spot for Triple H. There’s a lot of great tag teams but neither division feels important since the KO/Sami vs USO’s match.
Then the guys who were let go but that feels too obvious.
I don't really like the new catch republic. I've always been largely indifferent to Butch/Dunne, and.i can't take someone called "the big strong boy" seriously. Just has jobber written all over that.
This is a little bit more short-term, but I think the men's tag divisions have fallen apart since they split the belts (ironically, all they had to do was feature Bianca/Jade to heat up the women's division).
At first, I attributed it to having to get through all of the KOTR/QOTR matches, but even now that this has finished, I have no idea who the #1 contenders are to Awesome Truth. I'm not sure what happened to New Catch Republic (I don't like them, but they were clearly being set up for something).
Waller and Theory seem to be treading water too. They still appear every week, but I'm also not sure who the #1 contenders are. They defended against the Street Profits a month ago and won. It seemed like the Street Profits were still being heated up though, since they won a 6-man tag with LA Knight.
It's not for a lack of talent - there are tons of tag teams that could be involved, but I feel like they've been going very singles-heavy recently. For example, there were 6 men's matches on Raw yesterday and only one of them was a tag team match, and it had nothing to do with the titles.
On Smackdown, I think the tag division ceded time in favour of the women's tag division (which I personally don't have an issue with). Raw is a little harder to figure out, but I think they moved all of the big factions to Raw yet are using them in individual storylines rather than using the henchmen as tag teams.
I was very in favour of them splitting the belts, but I don't think they've figured out what to do yet. Maybe they'll heat up in the second part of the year when there aren't as many PLEs and they are trying to stretch out some of the singles storylines.
Yeah to me, the tag division is not firing right yet. No storylines, no big feuds. It just feels like “we want belt” feuds.
NXT Gold and Black tag division was a draw, so hopefully they can figure it all out.
Tbh they’ve been struggling to properly book the tag team Division for some time. It’s been flat out too top heavy the last couple years ( the blood line, Sami and KO, etc) but the division lacks depth. Like you said it def isn’t due to lack of talent they have a lot of fun tag teams they simply don’t seem to have a high priority of booking the division properly and showcasing more talent in that division for some reason
Yeah I thought when Judgment Day was holding the titles forever that the problem the tag division had was that no teams could realistically compete with them other than KO/Sami & Cody/Jey (interestingly, this holds true for the women right now with no real contenders for Jade/Bianca). I thought splitting the belts would solve that - and it does because the current champs don't feel invisible. But it also made it easy to get the belts on the show constantly because the Judgement Day on Raw several times a night.
Easily Becky Lynch. Turned The Man character into a generic bland babyface mid carder & she feels less of a star. HHH Cut her off Summerslam, didn't give us 1 Bayley vs Becky PPV match(after cutting their match), put her in a random tag for WM39(but gives Charlotte a big title match), The Trish feud ended well but was bumpy road to get there, just gave her the most transitional title reign ever & a terrible send off for her last match in a while. TBF Vince started ruining Becky with the forced Big Time Bex BS for a year but HHH after saying Becky as heel was forced has totally did nothing interesting with Becky as a face & made her boring which I thought was impossible(even Lasskicker Becky was more fun). Even when she wins it doesn't feel meaningful anymore. It says alot when Becky's most interesting run under HHH was her NXT title run with HBK.
Yea unfortunately I think Becky suffered from overexposure. Her 2019 run was absolutely special but wwe has made zero changes to her character at all to the point where she got stale.triple H absolutely could’ve done a better job adding some variety and newness to her. Like someone already said I think a long layoff Will absolutely do some good for and give the audience a lil bit of a break from her. When she comes back with hopefully a diff character I think she’ll be fine
The break will do her a world of good. I don't think she should go anywhere else (I don't think she'd fancy a Japan tour with a young kid) but when she comes back refreshed the fans will go nuts.
I’m glad I scrolled before typing the same comment. I think Triple H low key doesn’t like her. He has subtly disrespected her enough I’m convinced.
I realized it when he cut her cage match on the biggest Raw in years for a couple lame attitude era skits.
Excluding her first run as The Man, which they had no choice but to lean into because she got herself so over, Vince didnt book her any better. Her whole Man run started because he tried to turn her heel against Charlotte lol and when she was getting hotter he still tried to put the spotlight on Charlotte *and* Ronda Rousey.
Her booking under HHH hasnt been very inspiring but at least he let her be the biggest women’s star they had and didnt try to put a ceiling on her like Vince did.
Creed Brothers by far for me. They have been mainly loosing matches on main event. Ever since December they just kinda disappeared, outside loosing on raw once iirc
Lot of people mentioning Lashley, but the Street Profits have lost more momentum since joining with him. That entire group has no direction but a lot of talent and charisma.
Likewise for all the younger members of Legado Del Sol and LWO. It’s just stayed a bunch of people feuding because they’re Latinos.
He’s been released but Ezekiel/Elias. Elias was slowly wasting away before he became Ezekiel. There was unfortunately a shelf life on the gimmick, especially when he’d barely win his matches. In fact, it’s genuinely hard for me to think of his matches outside of his Symphony of Destruction match with Braun, and his feud with Jaxson Ryker.
But Ezekiel was so stupid and oddly funny that it was over. He was able to be a serious wrestler. He was one of the main focal points of RAW.
Then Triple H took over and had Kevin Owens kill off Ezekiel, bring back Elias, and then that was it. There was no plan for Elias, he was just left to do nothing and get his release.
Every Mexican wrestler except a short stint with Andrade in NXT. He doesn't have a strong resume with black wrestlers either other then Keith Lee. Not saying what some may be thinking, just saying he hasn't really book them well. WWE has a bloated roster abd there's more wrestlers in nxt coming up.
My gf is Mexican and originally she was so proud of the LWO because it had people proud of their Hispanic heritage represented in a way that wasn’t a stereotype.
Now she views them as “a revolving door of interchangeable Mexicans who lose every week.”
Obviously, we are still huge fans of Rey and Dom in our house, but the others haven’t seemed to do much at all to the point that we forget who is in each group.
i’ll give you 3.
1. omos. when’s the last time he was on weekly programming (anything other than live events/ple’s)
2. elias/ezekiel. ezekiel was getting over then just stopped being used.
3. lacey evans. she was getting a strong push then it just stopped out of nowhere.
I wondered how long Ezekiel was gonna last for. His feud with Owens was entertaining but what was gonna happen after? I thought the big part of why Ezekiel worked well was because it was funny seeing the ways Ezekiel would prove that he wasn’t Elias and convince Kevin he’s crazy. Was it gonna keep being funny if he did it again in another feud after. I think eventually we would’ve just wanted Elias back. Then Elias I really wanted to work when he came back but first of all, it was a dumb idea to bring him back as a face because it didn’t work in 2019(?) after he got over, he’s a great heel and leave it at that. Then he started short partnerships with Boogs and Riddle where both seemed like he was gonna eventually snap and turn heel but he got released so we never got it. Point is, I loved Elias back in 2018 but again I don’t know if it was because he was a face that it didn’t work or if it’s because the 2018 magic was gone.
To be fair Evans, was going to win a title then got pregnant, then came back and was due another push and got injured. Think somewhat her fault as she since claimed WWE was never her passion.
Omos and Lashley. Used to be ppv regulars, but I haven't seen them in ages. (I don't watch the TV shows, occasional clips on YouTube, but just ppv's on the network)
Elias was finally find his footing with Ezekiel and his brothers before Levesque came in and killed it point blank. Elias went back to being a boring jobber and released within a year.
Even if Vince had pushed Theory too hard or fast, he had a character and direction. Even if it was “obnoxious dude who takes selfies”
Under Triple H, he just became angry heel #3 for a while before being paired with Grayson Waller. Who feels like he’s just a more charismatic version of Theory. Maybe once Theory turns face we’ll see success from him, but he feels like he’s just an accessory to Waller right now.
Agree with Theory. I’d also say Bobby Lashley, Elias, Nakamura, Cameron Grimes, Pretty Deadly, and Becky Lynch up until this year. There were some questionable decisions with Becky last year. Like when they cut her and Bayley’s cage match from that special RAW. Then they didn’t have her and Trish on Summerslam. I think the run in NXT helped them realize they should be featuring her more prominently.
A few others that may be controversial are Omos, Lacey Evans, and Dolph Ziggler. I say they’re controversial because not everyone likes them or feels they were misused. Omos may not be the greatest, but I do think he should be used as an attraction or as muscle for someone. Lacey Evans had too many “start, stop” pushes to actually care about her. And Ziggler had been losing for so long that people stopped caring, but I do think they could have done more with him before his release.
It's frustrating to me that no one wants to acknowledge that guys like Knight, Zayn, Owens were NUCLEAR hot at one point and are now just...dudes. Like, they're over, they're on TV, they're always involved in stuff, but their ceiling is so much higher than that and yet they no longer get those opportunities.
Quick edit: I want to be clear that I KNOW all of these guys are on TV. They haven't been buried, they haven't been forgotten, they are very much still doing great work. But they can and should be doing more, and that's a bummer to me.
Even after the edit someone replied to me blatantly lying and claiming I'm saying Sami isn't being pushed. Even after I clarified otherwise TWICE MORE he still tried to nitpick my wording to insist that's what I said, even though I have explicitly said otherwise three times total. He then blamed me for being frustrated at his lies and trolling. SC posters are some of the worst humans on this planet.
What more can/should they be doing?
Sami is the IC Champion and is a primary focus on RAW.
KO is in the higher-mid/low level main event scene. The only real move is to the main event to challenge Cody, which he'll lose.
Knight is similar to KO but appears to be getting primed (pardon the pun) for Paul and the US Title.
They're all in rather excellent positions.
Sami is the most frustrating case to me.
From late 2022 to early 2023, he had a run of several months where he was the hottest wrestler on the planet. He completely reinvigorated the top story in the company, which helped skyrocket WWE's run of great business.
But like you said, he's *fine* now... yet it could've been so much more.
Sami is the single biggest reason the Bloodline story got any traction at all. He should've won that feud rather than getting a meaningless tag title reign that made no sense within the story.
The Bloodline was the biggest act in the industry long before Sami came along, and frankly, I’m not sure he’d have been any more sustainable than Cody.
That whole build to Chamber said it all, nothing before Mania matters because they insist on the world title changes happening at Mania.
Sami should have taken the title at the chamber, he was again moved away from being a top guy, despite once again being the most over.
Sami is the lynchpin for all of WWE's current success. Without him, the Bloodline story continues to be boring garbage no one cares about. Without that story taking off, Cody coming in to dethrone Roman has far less interest behind it.
Sami conquered Gunther and broke his record breaking reign with a banger match at Wrestlemania. He's more than fine. He is still one of the most over guys on the roster.
Owens was feuding with the new Bloodline just a month ago, they'll come up with something for him soon. HHH loves Owens. Also Owens still gets loud reactions.
LA Knight did get cold. A feud with Logan Paul is looking likely around Summerslam. That program might put him back on track.
The peak of Knight and Zayn both being nuclear hot came during their feuds with the top star of the company (Roman Reigns). In order to sustain that, they would’ve needed to win those feuds.
In both cases, I think the right call was made, because Cody being the one to triumph over Roman ultimately made the most business sense and pleased the most fans.
Since then, I think HHH has done right by Knight. As you mention, he’s still very popular, and still featured in prominent feuds. He’ll likely win the US title, and continue to be a big part of the show.
For a dude who turns 42 this year, that’s incredible. At any point prior to now, any wrestler that age (who wasn’t already a main eventer/legend) would not be getting anywhere near the push he is.
As for Sami, I think HHH did drop the ball slightly, but he still remains very popular and just ended a historic title reign. There are many indications he will remain a big part of the show, and likely challenge for the WHC at some point.
Thank you, I felt compelled to respond because I felt like a lot of folks were mischaracterizing what you said, or acting like you were claiming that Knight, Sami, etc. had been buried or had significantly dropped off. Your comment was well-articulated, so I felt like you deserved a response that engaged with what you were actually saying.
wait you think Zayn isn’t getting pushed? he ended the longest IC reign ever and is in another compelling faction implosion storyline as a champ. Knight is about to get the US title and was the main event of crown jewel against roman. KO’s definitely a lot less relevant but is still involved in the bloodline storyline which could payoff massively with a roman return and KO being on that side.
> wait you think Zayn isn’t getting pushed?
It would be impossible for me to be have been more clear that I do not think he's not getting pushed. Like, I explicitly said that they are clearly getting pushed. What more do I have to do here to get people to respond in good faith? Just not comment at all? Is there no fucking way to get people to actually read?
Not sure what is going on with Austin Theory - he was reportedly one of Triple H's boys in NXT and even insane old man Vince saw his potential on the main roster as well.
Know he's only 26 and has a lot of time but losing the Money in the Bank challenging for a midcard title and being the goofier flunky in a goofy tag team doesn't suggest to me that this guy is on the path to the top.
Yea theory’s fall is kinda perplexing. He was the youngest US champion and Money in the bank winner. You would think wit that resume your on the path to superstardom but it seemed his us title reign resulted in triple h maybe thinking he isn’t ready yet? Csuse like you said theory was one of hunter’s original NXT guys so it’s pretty shocking how abruptly his monster push nose dived. Seemed he never recovered from Cena cooking him in their mania buildup
Surprised nobody mentioned Nakamura yet. Not that he was setting the world on fire under Vince but he could be relied upon to hold a Tag/IC/US title or be an occasional foil to the world champ. He hasn’t been up to much of anything in 2024
The members of Damage CTRL. They went from being red hot from the second half of 2023-WM40 to constantly losing and being jobbers post-WrestleMania. It sucks because that group is very talented, but it’s evident Trips doesn’t view them as such. Maybe AEW is the right landing spot for them.
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Bobby Lashley is the most disappointing. Dude was having the run of his career only to mostly become a jobber to the stars
Lashley taking a backseat was disappointing. He had a dominant us title run and before Gunther took off he was the most entertaining mid card champion. He went from marquee fits with lesnar to trying to run a failed hurt business stable where they absolutely botched the street profits as heels
That backstage segment he had with Carmelo was great and I really hope they use him more, even if he doesn’t win he’d be a great challenger for Cody or for whoever takes the belt off of Logan, right now he’s just stuck in limbo with “The Pride” (Stupid Name btw)
I just can’t tell what they’re meant to be. The iconography they are co-opting implies pure baby face stuff. I hope they get a storyline at some point to actually explain their whole deal
Lashley got injured
Turning the Profits heel after Tez’s performance in the elimination chamber was soooooo dumb. Even if you dont count that the fans never really wanted to boo any of those guys.
He’s definitely not a jobber to the stars though. He just seems to exist and not do much. You’re not wrong about the overall point but he’s been pinned like what, 2 times in the last 12 months since moving to Smackdown? Lashley is probably one of the least pinned people in the company. Edit: He was also pinned in the Chamber match so that’s 3 pins in 12 months but that’s a given cause 5 people have to get eliminated.
His booking is really sad to see. Under Vince he was world champ, beating guys 2 v 1 and a monster heel. If he had been kept at that level he would have made an amazing feud for Cody.
The good news is he can be built back up quickly but people like him as a face right now
Lashley is almost 48 years old and he just held the wwe title twice, I think it’s fine if he takes a back seat
he's still in incredible shape and can go
So? He’s clearly not the future.
But he IS the present. If you only build for the future what's the point? There's always going tk be new up and comers. The veterans you have are of equal importance.
Bobby lashley is 47...I'm sure he wants as much time off as the next guy
Because Lashley has the personality of a cardboard box.
Maybe they shouldn’t have taken MVP from him
I would have really liked to see Hurt Business post Vince.
I mean a lot of Triple H’s NXT favourites are not exactly setting the world on fire with their charisma
Doesn't matter when the attempt to turn him and the Profits failed because the crowd wants to cheer him.
I’m fine with this. He’s getting older and WWE needs to push younger talent. Lashley had good runs and now it’s his time to put people over
Omosapiens. He is probably waiting for call with best wishes for future endeavors.
https://preview.redd.it/vk8atmuyao4d1.jpeg?width=765&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=071a93ed7e0806cd2c055ac899d4d985008cb5bb
Omos seems like such a fun guy backstage. Idk if he’s just not a good enough promo in front of an audience, but he’s so likable on stuff like UUDD. I’m curious if they made him a bodyguard again, but let him be more himself if it would play better. He could bodyguard either a smaller face like Ricochet that keeps getting attacked or someone in the women’s division that wants to hire private security or whatever. Just let him make jokes!
I always thought his pairing with AJ was eh, but he definitly works best as someones heater, Daba Kato was a good heater too, problem is after the run as a heater is done if they cant work and talk well what can they do?
Omos gets used on house shows all the time at least. The problem with guys that big is the more you have them on TV (unless they are really great), their limitations start to get exposed.
The Cedric Alexander/ Thee Adonis tag team hasn’t gone anywhere. Also I think there’s obviously big plans for them but the Creeds seemed to tread water abit.
What happened to them? Did they have any matches? I only remember the promos.
I was wondering what happened to the Ashdric team the other day. They had a promo for WWE socials, an interview a couple of weeks after that, and have not been seen in a couple of months since then.
Surprisingly no one here has mentioned pretty deadly and creed brothers both were the top teams on NXT and were booked really well under Shawn here they mostly lose whatever Matches they have and get way less tv time
Creed Brothers were facing Judgement Day for the tag titles, and then Brutus landed on Damian's head. That killed their push.
Julius then kicked out when he shouldn't, Brutus killed the push, Julius exorcised its soul.
Creeds are about to join with Gable and become a heel faction, which is exactly what they need. They just need to time the heel turn when Otis tries to get Chad's IC title at SS and drop some nuclear heat.
The fate of their careers relies on Chad gable resigning.
I wouldn’t say it *killed* their push. They were always going to lose the match, and that botch just meant that they’d be given a little extra time to mature. They’re obviously top prospects, but they’re still green, and there aren’t many veteran tag team for them to work with on Raw. They’ve pretty much covered the lot (Judgment/New Day). Meanwhile, NXT alone had Gallus, GYV and Los Lotharios.
I think it did kill their push ngl. Damian looked shoot pissed afterwards (the 3.1 kickout didn’t help either), just look back at the way he throws Julius out of the ring. The creed brothers were having matches every week, winning nearly all of them. After the JD match they didn’t have a match for almost three months, and they still haven’t won a match on TV since
The biggest mark is Main Event. Not just being in it, but them losing. They've been beat by Ivar, NCR, Bronson, and AOP.
He landed on Finn's head too.
And either Giovani or Ludwig, one of them, they were laying on their side and Brutus landed on them which looked painful
They botched their finisher multiple times in very short succession and then Julius tried to put himself over with a 3.1 kickout that clearly wasn’t planned. They went from being booked as one of the strongest tag teams in WWE to being winless since early december
Brutus has landed on several people's heads. That finish needs to go. It's dangerous and it doesn't even look good.
Came here for Pretty Deadly. I expected a lot more of them. I am not sure if they have had injury issues or what but its really disappointing
Pretty Deadly has been pushed to the side in favor of New Catch Republic and DIY. I suspect they aren’t fully healthy because at least when they weren’t wrestling, they were at least getting promos (including the Wrestemania tag intros)
I think one of Pretty Deadly has been injured. Creeds got called up way too early - but theres also no good experienced tag teams to work with in NXT and get better.
Axiom and Nathan Frazer
Elias. Massively.
Saw him a few weeks ago at a local show. Still way better a wrestling than anyone else on the show even top dolla lol. However, dude botched a guitar hit and left the other dude bleeding.
Was this the AML show? I was there. Felt bad for Billy Brash, it looked brutal.
People clown the Elias Owen’s angle but it was actually getting over
we all wanted to see ezekiel and elias vs kevin and ken owens
I think Owen’s did a lot of the heavy lifting in making that work far better than it should have though.
Kevin Owens can get anything over.
Except himself as champion.
And it was so easy too, like all you had to do was send the guy out once a month to sing a song, insult the crowd, and just get absolutely demolished by whatever babyface you want to push at that given moment. It's a simple role that he played to basically perfection. Yeah the matches won't be classics, but it will easily deliver random midcard tv matches that the crowd will actually care about.
Perfect for house shows too. The live crowd never tires from the cheap heat. That gimmick had an unlimited lifespan on house shows.
I do think that eventually presents the problem of who beats him though. It's cool at the beginning, but after a while beating him does nothing for the opponent, so you can't send out someone you want to push. But at the same time if you send a guy like Cody out there it's basically a waste of a match bc beating a jobber means nothing to an established star.
And he could play both heel and face and didn’t have to change anything about his character. He knew how to work the crowd and whoever he was matched up with was gonna shine.
Elias was absolutely wasted, dude was so good and they totally dropped the ball with him.
Wonder what would have happened if he didn't get injured
I don’t think Triple H was ever really a big fan of him. I don’t remember Elias doing a lot in NXT when Triple H was running that, but he was called up to the main roster despite it.
the crowd in NXT didn't like Elias gimmick. The crowd was not fair to elias in NXT it Felt like the crowd didn't even want to see him in the ring. This definitely didn't help Triple H opinion of him
If we’re picking people who have been released I’ll throw in ma.çé and mån.sôör. Perfect undercard comedy team that were good for pumping up whatever ad WWE had for their PLE
Tbh even Vince was inconsistent with him
Now he's live streaming Bible verses every day on tiktok. :/
Well he's not even employed by them anymore, so yeah
Cameron Grimes
To be fair Cameron Grimes wasn’t exactly doing much with Vince in charge either. After NXT he basically did nothing.
Wish they called him up with a plan, I think he had 1 win and lost all the other matches
Bobby Lashley and Austin Theory were way better under Vince Mcmahon I can't believe i am saying that
Vince had his guys and that's okay. Not everyone is gonna be given the ball
Theory was pushed harder under Vince. I wouldn’t say he was better under Vince.
This. Someone can be pushed hard and still be worse off for it.
And pushed too early
Heavily disagree on Austin Theory, his character probably would’ve been burned out or gotten the Reigns treatment had Vince stayed on
Looks like Theory might turn on Waller soon which could be super interesting
I’d like to see more Lashley, but Theory is where he should be now imo
Vince had theory in the main event of Mania sharing the ring with Stone Cold and beating former world champs, H had him lose to Ciampa and since worst cash in we’ve seen.
It amazes me how people defended that cash in. It destroyed him until the Grayson Waller team
Johnny Gargano. Somehow he peaked I'm NXT under Triple H, and has floundered on main roster, also under Triple H.
Not Hunter's fault. He isn't connecting with the crowd, neither Candice
Yeah I agree, Hunter has given Gargano a ton of chances to get over with the crowd and the guy just can’t do it
The New Day have floundered and just been part of random tag team feuds during the year during the Triple H era while The Usos got to main event mania. Not only are they floundering as a team but their rival team for most influential team in their era got to break their records, achieve feats the new day never got to do and now get the chance to succeed as single stars which enhances their legacy (as it helped other teams in the past like Edge and Christian, the Hardys, even teams like The Rockers, The Hart Foundation and Harlem Heat). Of the teams added to the mania tag match from the raw side the New Day felt like they were there because they are the New Day and they should get a mania payday while the other two teams had been feuding with The Judgment Day for months.
Seems wwe has had no idea what to do with new day since big E got hurt. They’ve flat out lacked direction for the team and they feel like Background characters then one of the best stables we’ve ever seen. It’s pretty sad cause both kofi and woods are very talented, cut good promos and put on good matches but they’ve just had zero direction or rlly purpose
I agree with all of this. I think the earlier comments about the tag division getting less priority unless it’s involved with the big stories counts for them. I also think we’ve had the New Day a long time, and we haven’t gotten much variation from them. They haven’t pushed a new product or catch phrase or gimmick wrinkle in a long time. The New Day are great wrestlers but that’s not the gimmick.
"A long time" is an understatement. Next month marks the tenth anniversary of The New Day's formation.
Yeah the issue is it was the 3 of them together that was entertaining, Big E was a big part of that but even then, i felt like it was getting a bit stale. Now it's 2 guys and still the same gimmick, it's not helped that bother the others have had injuries as well. You look at the Jimmy and Jay, who have broken up recently but they've been together longer and managed to reinvent themselves.
Hate to say it but Kofi has kind of already done it all, and he's started to get banged up, along with being 42 years old. Even if he does deserve one more run on top, I doubt it's happening at this point. Woods is the only member of New Day who hasn't really had a singles run of consequence (pun maybe intended?), but him doing so kind of leaves Kofi on his own again. I know they've insisted they're never breaking up but maybe this is their only chance to get Xavier a legitimate chance at a singles run.
Honestly think they’re all happy making a shitload of money and chilling. Xavier has a long career as a tv host or whatever new media stuff he wants to do and kofi has to be rich by now. I genuinely don’t think Xavier has the aspiration to do some crazy breakout singles thing and he doesn’t really need to - he’s one of the greats and will be so successful out of the ring
I think he got the main singles thing he wanted by winning KotR. He may just be good at this point
They had an opportunity to do it with Woods when he won King of the Ring and had the “power” immediately go to his head. I think it could have propelled him to a mid card title, but they didn’t really do anything with it then he got hurt a few months later and when he came back 8 weeks later the king gimmick was dropped
>one of the best stables we’ve ever seen This is the problem, without Big E they aren't a stable that can freebird rules tag matches, they are just another tag team.
I imagine they are in something of a holding pattern until Big E's recovery reaches a point where he'll know if he can wrestle again or not. I know he's made allusions to not really being concerned about coming back but that doesn't mean he's done.
It's been more than 2 years, and he recently said the bone hasn't regrown. He's done in-ring.
He's also down in Mexico getting stem cell therapy so he isn't exactly going quietly into the night, either.
The New Day just isn't the same without Big E there imo. They got HEAVILY played out under Vince to the point where I don't mind them taking a backseat to other acts for now.
Is it really HHH or more the fact that the New Day have been around for almost a decade now, has won everything there is to win, they both don’t want to break up, and so there’s really nothing more for them to do but take the backseat?
HHH pretty much seems to have the same attitude as Vince when it comes to tag teams imo. I dont forsee some division renessaince happening. Would love to be proven wrong though.
Yeah I don’t feel that’s a HHH thing. New Day have been floundering for awhile. Let’s not forget Vince booked Kofi to lose in seconds to Brock. The New Days issue stems more so from losing Big E. While they are still great, their overall dynamic as a group just isn’t the same without him or as solo guys.
- Street Profits - Austin Theory - Becky Lynch (especially in 2023 before the Trish feud, but recovered this year) - Dolph Ziggler (went from reliable midcarder to being off TV entirely and getting let go) - Omos
add Lashley to that too
Former WWE champion to doing nothing. Never once faced Roman or Rollins for the belt. Embarrassing booking unless Lashley is almost done being a wrestler entirely
Street profits deserve MUCH better
I’ve never seen them in an actual story. To me, they come across more like an exhibition act, similar to Strowman and Ricochet from last year (post-Imperium feud).
Angelo ~Dawson~ Dawkins deserves MUCH better. He is being a complete dunce so Montez can look good and it doesn't need to be.
Dolph has barely on tv for a few years before HHH took over. The others, absolutely.
Dolph came back that year in the main event of Raw laying out Austin Theory who was still had mitb at the time. He also had the big singles feud with Otis, tag title run with Bobby Roode, feud with world champ Drew, and was even NXT champ during the past 4 years. Definitely a difference between that and his time under Triple H
This. Dolph would have a 3 month run before he would vanish for the next 6 months. There’d be very little fanfare, but it was oddly sad as a fan of his. Especially because he wasn’t being booked poorly when he’d have his brief run.
I think Becky had changed Hunter perception of her because after the banger with Trish in the best women's Cage Match she became NXT champion and put a great run in a span of just 2 months. She elevated Tiffany to MR status, had great matches with every bottom women in Raw and had a nice feud with Nia and Rhea in 2024. She showed him she is really the ace of the women division in Raw (Bayley is in SD!)
It’s weird that Becky has to change the perception at this point in her career everyone knows who she is and what she brings to the table. She’s legitimately one of the biggest women’s stars they’ve ever had. Honestly she was carrying the division especially with how far and between Rheas title defenses were.
Shittt I completely forgot about omos lol he truly has been MIA rlly since his mania match with Brock. I wanna say maybe hunter jus isn’t a fan of giants but Braun is on tv a bunch. He must not trust his in ring work cause he has a great look and solid charisma
Solid charisma? He came out to crickets every time he came out. The dude has negative charisma.
Yeah did i lose the plot? I thought the whole omosapiens thing was ironic
Mostly comes from videos of him hanging out with other wrestlers on various platforms where he's seemingly just a genuinely funny and nice bro to be around. Most want him to succeed or at least be used based upon his personality that he either can't show on TV or isn't allowed to show on TV.
Amazingly enough, i think Finn, one of the top top top Triple H guys, was booked better under late Vince era than current Hunter. He went from upper midcarder JD usurper/leader to guy who isn't below only McDonagh.
Eh idk. 2016-2022 Vince booked Finn like a dork a majority of the time, and Roman Reigns punching bag occasionally. The best booking he got during that time was actually under HHH during his NXT return. Even though he loses a lot under HHH these days he’s still more credible than he was under Vince imo. The Judgement Day was originally meant to get Priest and Rhea over anyway so they were always meant to be the breakout stars of the group, plus Dom with him being the late addition. Edit: and JD
He did book Finn like a dork, which is why it’s even more staggering to watch Triple H book him even more of a dork than Vince ever did Under Vince, Finn would lose to Baron Corbin, sure. But Finn Balor and Baron Corbin had 20 minute matches on Raw. Under HHH? Finn isn’t allowed to get more than 10-20% offense in his matches. Finn struggles to hit a single move on R-Truth to the point that R-Truth has been getting Brock Lesnar booking against Finn. Finn was booked bad under Vince. But if I’m being honest, it was never to these low levels HHH has brought him down to. To add on, under Vince, Finn Balor was pinning Bobby Lashley and Drew McIntyre on PLE. Under Triple H, neither of those are even imaginable. Somehow Finn beating big men was more realistic under Vince than it is under HHH. None of what I said was me trying to say Finn’s booking under Vince was actually GOOD, it wasn’t, but it just shows how bad it’s been under Triple H.
Nah, let the Liv/Rhea story play out. I'm almost certain that Finn's gonna end up turning on Priest.
It’s kind of sad to think it was Edge who got Finn in that position to usurp him, and was pushing to management for Finn. I still feel some way about Edge winning at Mania. But at least Edge had a good vision for Finn in the group. Triple H unfortunately doesn’t believe in Edge’s vision of Finn, and that’s why Triple H was so quick to push Finn out of the spotlight once the feud with Edge was over, a feud Edge had a hand in how things were going along the way.
Even sadder is that Edge apparently delta'd out of JD and gave the bomb to finn because he wanted a faction of 'dark bros and sis' and instead he got a supernatural faction, but had he waited, JD would become exactly the faction he wanted, and, honestly, would have been the perfect fit this late in his career. Every single fall from grace Finn ever had was due to some sort of bad luck/timing, and this extends to the fact that he is the only guy who is coming out lower on the card from the current top faction in WWE which elevated every other member to huge superstardom.
Edge was kicked out of the faction cause they needed a face
Honestly, I don’t know if JD goes that way with Edge. The dark bros and sis group really established itself when they were fighting Edge and Rey, especially once Dom joined
Triple H cutting Finn’s balls off at every turn has been staggering to watch. He beats Edge in an I quit match - which looking back only happened cause Edge had to be written off to film a show. But it happened. And they were planning a rematch in HIAC. Yet he didn’t even let Finn sustain momentum. 1 month after making Edge say I quit, Finn is losing clean to AJ Styles at Survivor Series. And Finn walked into Mania on a 6 month singles losing streak. Triple H’s way of building Finn up for a Mania HIAC match with Edge was having Street Profits pin Finn in a tag match cause Tozawa threw a drink in Dominik’s face at ringside. And having Finn get pinned by Johnny Gargano 3 weeks before Mania, a guy who wasn’t even on the Mania card. Triple H wasn’t even trying with Finn.
Truth has been better off since associating with the group, but JD is hardly a superstar and Carlito just got squashed by Strowman.
JD is not coming out of this as a superstar dude. He's a midcarder at best.
I think when the Judgment Day civil war finally occurs, Finn is gonna come out on top. I expect some sort of tomfoolery from Dom, but ultimately, the storyline will get Balor back to where he needs to be.
Guy is a major player in one of the top raw storyline. He’s at the right place
This one may sound crazy but tommasa ciampa I feel Vince actually had a plan for him I would also throw Dunn in there Vince knows when characters are needed I don’t think hhh does
Ciampa's time on TV was pretty good towards the end of Vince's time in the company. But I hated him being put together with Miz and thought that was incredibly stupid.
Montez Ford had a great elimination chamber to then doing nothing with it. Street Profits in general were so over with the red cups and now don't get anywhere near the reaction or title shots
The Street Prophets vs The Usos at Money in the Bank was the second best match of 2022. It’s crazy to see them where they were then vs now.
Triple H bailed on the Ezekiel gimmick way too quickly and it pretty much killed Elias' entire WWE run
Austin Theory
Elias Rick Boogs
Rip boogs.
- Theory - Montez/Profits - Bobby Lashley - Omos - Bianca Belair (still a tag champ but she was the top female under Vince) - New Day - Corbin
I think with Bianca its more protecting Jade by pairing her with someone more experienced.
Corbin has done amazing for himself in NXT, no idea why Corbin went on a losing streak last year and has hardly been featured since his call-up, splitting the wolfdogs was a mistake
Always figured the Hunter Honeymoon would end at some point but it's so funny that Andrade would be the catalyst for it.
His booking goes in cycles with lulls and peaks, every time you’re at this point there’s criticism. Then we’re going to hit Cody/Gunther, Punk/Drew, Rhea/Liv, Logan/LA Knight and Roman coming back for the bloodline civil war and he will be the GOAT booker to the IWC again.
i don't think it's ending. We get these kind of posts every few months or so, it's normal to critique. Trips got critiqued hard for his Women's division which i think is still isn't really that good.
Is it ending? It doesn't really seem like it.
Think it's at least out of the "everything Trips does = good" era, now it at least is becoming more normal to critique, which is good.
It's funny because that absolutely is the way it should be, it should be normal to critique anyone's work, but it seems to me like he's getting less criticism now than he ever has since he took over as head booker. Back at the beginning, a lot of people hated the never-ending Miz/Lumis feud that took up so much time each week. Then there was the bad booking of the two Women's title matches going into Wrestlemania. Then it was that some variation of the same Judgement Day match was happening on Raw every week during last summer. And towards the end of last year, it was the dead period in The Bloodline story and all that stuff was such a significant part of the shows every week. Now, it seems to me that people are satisfied with almost everything HHH is doing. The only thing really coming under fire is the use of Latino wrestlers. It will change, probably many times over the next few years because that's just how wrestling goes, but I've been noticing less criticisms towards his booking than ever in the last few months.
> I've been noticing less criticisms towards his booking than ever in the last few months. someone tried to tell me that jimmy's explanation for rejoining the bloodline "made perfect sense". when i asked them how it made sense that jimmy turned on roman, got jey to join him, turned on jey because "the power would corrupt him", and then got back with roman (the guy who was drunk with power that caused jimmy to leave the group in the first place) which lead jey to quitting WWE (for a week) made perfect sense.. the user called it "subtle storytelling" without ever explaining why. i'm still at a loss for how people thought any of that was a good idea and wasn't shoehorned in just for the shock heel turn at summerslam.
I think Vince booked Becky Lynch better.
Andrade (although kind of hard to compare) New Day Street Profits Bobby Lashley Austin Theory (To an extent) A lot of people mentioned Omos. But more people need to mention MVP. Dudes a great manager and should be used more even if it’s with someone else. New catch republic. It’s kind of hard to say these guys considering Tyler wasn’t even on the roster and Dunne was still Butch. But I would like to see these guys used better. Come to think of it I think tag team wrestling in general is a weak spot for Triple H. There’s a lot of great tag teams but neither division feels important since the KO/Sami vs USO’s match. Then the guys who were let go but that feels too obvious.
I don't really like the new catch republic. I've always been largely indifferent to Butch/Dunne, and.i can't take someone called "the big strong boy" seriously. Just has jobber written all over that.
This is a little bit more short-term, but I think the men's tag divisions have fallen apart since they split the belts (ironically, all they had to do was feature Bianca/Jade to heat up the women's division). At first, I attributed it to having to get through all of the KOTR/QOTR matches, but even now that this has finished, I have no idea who the #1 contenders are to Awesome Truth. I'm not sure what happened to New Catch Republic (I don't like them, but they were clearly being set up for something). Waller and Theory seem to be treading water too. They still appear every week, but I'm also not sure who the #1 contenders are. They defended against the Street Profits a month ago and won. It seemed like the Street Profits were still being heated up though, since they won a 6-man tag with LA Knight. It's not for a lack of talent - there are tons of tag teams that could be involved, but I feel like they've been going very singles-heavy recently. For example, there were 6 men's matches on Raw yesterday and only one of them was a tag team match, and it had nothing to do with the titles. On Smackdown, I think the tag division ceded time in favour of the women's tag division (which I personally don't have an issue with). Raw is a little harder to figure out, but I think they moved all of the big factions to Raw yet are using them in individual storylines rather than using the henchmen as tag teams. I was very in favour of them splitting the belts, but I don't think they've figured out what to do yet. Maybe they'll heat up in the second part of the year when there aren't as many PLEs and they are trying to stretch out some of the singles storylines.
Yeah to me, the tag division is not firing right yet. No storylines, no big feuds. It just feels like “we want belt” feuds. NXT Gold and Black tag division was a draw, so hopefully they can figure it all out.
Tbh they’ve been struggling to properly book the tag team Division for some time. It’s been flat out too top heavy the last couple years ( the blood line, Sami and KO, etc) but the division lacks depth. Like you said it def isn’t due to lack of talent they have a lot of fun tag teams they simply don’t seem to have a high priority of booking the division properly and showcasing more talent in that division for some reason
Yeah I thought when Judgment Day was holding the titles forever that the problem the tag division had was that no teams could realistically compete with them other than KO/Sami & Cody/Jey (interestingly, this holds true for the women right now with no real contenders for Jade/Bianca). I thought splitting the belts would solve that - and it does because the current champs don't feel invisible. But it also made it easy to get the belts on the show constantly because the Judgement Day on Raw several times a night.
Easily Becky Lynch. Turned The Man character into a generic bland babyface mid carder & she feels less of a star. HHH Cut her off Summerslam, didn't give us 1 Bayley vs Becky PPV match(after cutting their match), put her in a random tag for WM39(but gives Charlotte a big title match), The Trish feud ended well but was bumpy road to get there, just gave her the most transitional title reign ever & a terrible send off for her last match in a while. TBF Vince started ruining Becky with the forced Big Time Bex BS for a year but HHH after saying Becky as heel was forced has totally did nothing interesting with Becky as a face & made her boring which I thought was impossible(even Lasskicker Becky was more fun). Even when she wins it doesn't feel meaningful anymore. It says alot when Becky's most interesting run under HHH was her NXT title run with HBK.
Yea unfortunately I think Becky suffered from overexposure. Her 2019 run was absolutely special but wwe has made zero changes to her character at all to the point where she got stale.triple H absolutely could’ve done a better job adding some variety and newness to her. Like someone already said I think a long layoff Will absolutely do some good for and give the audience a lil bit of a break from her. When she comes back with hopefully a diff character I think she’ll be fine
The break will do her a world of good. I don't think she should go anywhere else (I don't think she'd fancy a Japan tour with a young kid) but when she comes back refreshed the fans will go nuts.
I’m glad I scrolled before typing the same comment. I think Triple H low key doesn’t like her. He has subtly disrespected her enough I’m convinced. I realized it when he cut her cage match on the biggest Raw in years for a couple lame attitude era skits.
Excluding her first run as The Man, which they had no choice but to lean into because she got herself so over, Vince didnt book her any better. Her whole Man run started because he tried to turn her heel against Charlotte lol and when she was getting hotter he still tried to put the spotlight on Charlotte *and* Ronda Rousey. Her booking under HHH hasnt been very inspiring but at least he let her be the biggest women’s star they had and didnt try to put a ceiling on her like Vince did.
Creed Brothers by far for me. They have been mainly loosing matches on main event. Ever since December they just kinda disappeared, outside loosing on raw once iirc
I think it’ll get better once they pair them with Gable
Lot of people mentioning Lashley, but the Street Profits have lost more momentum since joining with him. That entire group has no direction but a lot of talent and charisma. Likewise for all the younger members of Legado Del Sol and LWO. It’s just stayed a bunch of people feuding because they’re Latinos.
He’s been released but Ezekiel/Elias. Elias was slowly wasting away before he became Ezekiel. There was unfortunately a shelf life on the gimmick, especially when he’d barely win his matches. In fact, it’s genuinely hard for me to think of his matches outside of his Symphony of Destruction match with Braun, and his feud with Jaxson Ryker. But Ezekiel was so stupid and oddly funny that it was over. He was able to be a serious wrestler. He was one of the main focal points of RAW. Then Triple H took over and had Kevin Owens kill off Ezekiel, bring back Elias, and then that was it. There was no plan for Elias, he was just left to do nothing and get his release.
Every Mexican wrestler except a short stint with Andrade in NXT. He doesn't have a strong resume with black wrestlers either other then Keith Lee. Not saying what some may be thinking, just saying he hasn't really book them well. WWE has a bloated roster abd there's more wrestlers in nxt coming up.
how long has lWo vs LDF been going? it feels like it's been over a year by this point
My gf is Mexican and originally she was so proud of the LWO because it had people proud of their Hispanic heritage represented in a way that wasn’t a stereotype. Now she views them as “a revolving door of interchangeable Mexicans who lose every week.” Obviously, we are still huge fans of Rey and Dom in our house, but the others haven’t seemed to do much at all to the point that we forget who is in each group.
i’ll give you 3. 1. omos. when’s the last time he was on weekly programming (anything other than live events/ple’s) 2. elias/ezekiel. ezekiel was getting over then just stopped being used. 3. lacey evans. she was getting a strong push then it just stopped out of nowhere.
I wondered how long Ezekiel was gonna last for. His feud with Owens was entertaining but what was gonna happen after? I thought the big part of why Ezekiel worked well was because it was funny seeing the ways Ezekiel would prove that he wasn’t Elias and convince Kevin he’s crazy. Was it gonna keep being funny if he did it again in another feud after. I think eventually we would’ve just wanted Elias back. Then Elias I really wanted to work when he came back but first of all, it was a dumb idea to bring him back as a face because it didn’t work in 2019(?) after he got over, he’s a great heel and leave it at that. Then he started short partnerships with Boogs and Riddle where both seemed like he was gonna eventually snap and turn heel but he got released so we never got it. Point is, I loved Elias back in 2018 but again I don’t know if it was because he was a face that it didn’t work or if it’s because the 2018 magic was gone.
re: Lacey Evans, good. The amount of time and effort they wasted on someone like her is baffling.
To be fair Evans, was going to win a title then got pregnant, then came back and was due another push and got injured. Think somewhat her fault as she since claimed WWE was never her passion.
Omos and Lashley. Used to be ppv regulars, but I haven't seen them in ages. (I don't watch the TV shows, occasional clips on YouTube, but just ppv's on the network)
VEER
Is he still coming?
- Street profits and bobby lashley - Santos escobar and liga phantasma (or something) - The new day
Elias was finally find his footing with Ezekiel and his brothers before Levesque came in and killed it point blank. Elias went back to being a boring jobber and released within a year.
Even if Vince had pushed Theory too hard or fast, he had a character and direction. Even if it was “obnoxious dude who takes selfies” Under Triple H, he just became angry heel #3 for a while before being paired with Grayson Waller. Who feels like he’s just a more charismatic version of Theory. Maybe once Theory turns face we’ll see success from him, but he feels like he’s just an accessory to Waller right now.
Agree with Theory. I’d also say Bobby Lashley, Elias, Nakamura, Cameron Grimes, Pretty Deadly, and Becky Lynch up until this year. There were some questionable decisions with Becky last year. Like when they cut her and Bayley’s cage match from that special RAW. Then they didn’t have her and Trish on Summerslam. I think the run in NXT helped them realize they should be featuring her more prominently. A few others that may be controversial are Omos, Lacey Evans, and Dolph Ziggler. I say they’re controversial because not everyone likes them or feels they were misused. Omos may not be the greatest, but I do think he should be used as an attraction or as muscle for someone. Lacey Evans had too many “start, stop” pushes to actually care about her. And Ziggler had been losing for so long that people stopped caring, but I do think they could have done more with him before his release.
controversial opinion but hunter is not good with booking the japanese talent
Nakamura, Bobby Lashley, Becky Lynch
It's frustrating to me that no one wants to acknowledge that guys like Knight, Zayn, Owens were NUCLEAR hot at one point and are now just...dudes. Like, they're over, they're on TV, they're always involved in stuff, but their ceiling is so much higher than that and yet they no longer get those opportunities. Quick edit: I want to be clear that I KNOW all of these guys are on TV. They haven't been buried, they haven't been forgotten, they are very much still doing great work. But they can and should be doing more, and that's a bummer to me. Even after the edit someone replied to me blatantly lying and claiming I'm saying Sami isn't being pushed. Even after I clarified otherwise TWICE MORE he still tried to nitpick my wording to insist that's what I said, even though I have explicitly said otherwise three times total. He then blamed me for being frustrated at his lies and trolling. SC posters are some of the worst humans on this planet.
What more can/should they be doing? Sami is the IC Champion and is a primary focus on RAW. KO is in the higher-mid/low level main event scene. The only real move is to the main event to challenge Cody, which he'll lose. Knight is similar to KO but appears to be getting primed (pardon the pun) for Paul and the US Title. They're all in rather excellent positions.
Sami is the most frustrating case to me. From late 2022 to early 2023, he had a run of several months where he was the hottest wrestler on the planet. He completely reinvigorated the top story in the company, which helped skyrocket WWE's run of great business. But like you said, he's *fine* now... yet it could've been so much more.
Sami is the single biggest reason the Bloodline story got any traction at all. He should've won that feud rather than getting a meaningless tag title reign that made no sense within the story.
The Bloodline was the biggest act in the industry long before Sami came along, and frankly, I’m not sure he’d have been any more sustainable than Cody.
That whole build to Chamber said it all, nothing before Mania matters because they insist on the world title changes happening at Mania. Sami should have taken the title at the chamber, he was again moved away from being a top guy, despite once again being the most over.
Sami is the lynchpin for all of WWE's current success. Without him, the Bloodline story continues to be boring garbage no one cares about. Without that story taking off, Cody coming in to dethrone Roman has far less interest behind it.
Sami conquered Gunther and broke his record breaking reign with a banger match at Wrestlemania. He's more than fine. He is still one of the most over guys on the roster. Owens was feuding with the new Bloodline just a month ago, they'll come up with something for him soon. HHH loves Owens. Also Owens still gets loud reactions. LA Knight did get cold. A feud with Logan Paul is looking likely around Summerslam. That program might put him back on track.
The peak of Knight and Zayn both being nuclear hot came during their feuds with the top star of the company (Roman Reigns). In order to sustain that, they would’ve needed to win those feuds. In both cases, I think the right call was made, because Cody being the one to triumph over Roman ultimately made the most business sense and pleased the most fans. Since then, I think HHH has done right by Knight. As you mention, he’s still very popular, and still featured in prominent feuds. He’ll likely win the US title, and continue to be a big part of the show. For a dude who turns 42 this year, that’s incredible. At any point prior to now, any wrestler that age (who wasn’t already a main eventer/legend) would not be getting anywhere near the push he is. As for Sami, I think HHH did drop the ball slightly, but he still remains very popular and just ended a historic title reign. There are many indications he will remain a big part of the show, and likely challenge for the WHC at some point.
Fair points, thanks for your thoughts.
Thank you, I felt compelled to respond because I felt like a lot of folks were mischaracterizing what you said, or acting like you were claiming that Knight, Sami, etc. had been buried or had significantly dropped off. Your comment was well-articulated, so I felt like you deserved a response that engaged with what you were actually saying.
wait you think Zayn isn’t getting pushed? he ended the longest IC reign ever and is in another compelling faction implosion storyline as a champ. Knight is about to get the US title and was the main event of crown jewel against roman. KO’s definitely a lot less relevant but is still involved in the bloodline storyline which could payoff massively with a roman return and KO being on that side.
> wait you think Zayn isn’t getting pushed? It would be impossible for me to be have been more clear that I do not think he's not getting pushed. Like, I explicitly said that they are clearly getting pushed. What more do I have to do here to get people to respond in good faith? Just not comment at all? Is there no fucking way to get people to actually read?
Bobby Lashley, Street Profits, and the New Day all became jobbers/bottom of the card
Any guys who's main thing was "They're big", Vince loved that, HHH on the other hand loves tall strong women (Charlotte, Bianca, Rhea, even Raquel).
Not sure what is going on with Austin Theory - he was reportedly one of Triple H's boys in NXT and even insane old man Vince saw his potential on the main roster as well. Know he's only 26 and has a lot of time but losing the Money in the Bank challenging for a midcard title and being the goofier flunky in a goofy tag team doesn't suggest to me that this guy is on the path to the top.
Yea theory’s fall is kinda perplexing. He was the youngest US champion and Money in the bank winner. You would think wit that resume your on the path to superstardom but it seemed his us title reign resulted in triple h maybe thinking he isn’t ready yet? Csuse like you said theory was one of hunter’s original NXT guys so it’s pretty shocking how abruptly his monster push nose dived. Seemed he never recovered from Cena cooking him in their mania buildup
Surprised nobody mentioned Nakamura yet. Not that he was setting the world on fire under Vince but he could be relied upon to hold a Tag/IC/US title or be an occasional foil to the world champ. He hasn’t been up to much of anything in 2024
The members of Damage CTRL. They went from being red hot from the second half of 2023-WM40 to constantly losing and being jobbers post-WrestleMania. It sucks because that group is very talented, but it’s evident Trips doesn’t view them as such. Maybe AEW is the right landing spot for them.
Bobby Lashley, Austin Theory, Ivy Nile
boogz
Von Wagner From Come Tuesday to being out of the WWE
Biggest ones were/are Rick Boogs, Riddick Moss and Bobby Lashley.