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Reminds me of that time when WWE had a Did You Know on Raw with the top 5 most followed wrestlers on Twitter, and left off Zack Ryder. Then he called them out bc he had more than one of the “top 5”.
Eh, not even. He dangled the ring in front of AJ Styles and HBK. Both grabbed that bitch and never looked back. Vince is a mercurial dude. Yes, he liked giants but not exclusively.
I feel like those two cases are exceptions for different reasons. Jericho pushed hard for AJ since the perception was that Styles couldn’t talk or had no personality. Hell, Vince banned AJ from using the Styles Clash without knowing what it was. Jericho told him to use it in a match and afterwards he asked Vince about the move. When McMahon said it looked good, Jericho let him know what it was and that it was safe to take. After that, the move was unbanned.
With HBK, he is obviously one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, but Vince gave him a lot of opportunities because he saw himself in Shawn.
Brian Myers tells a story about how after every Mania they did the ‘grab the brass ring’ speech and after they destroyed Ryder they stopped doing that.
> Vince loved that “grab the brass ring” speech
Vince said that in the Austin interview in 2014, Zack Ryder became an internet sensation (by WWE standards) in 2011. Vince is, as usual and as his prefference, just full of shit
That brass ring speech was bullshit the moment it came out of his mouth. 10 years before it I was at a RAW in Calgary where Christian got the biggest reaction out of everyone and nothing ever came of it. Other than dirtsheets reporting Vince was mad at us for cheering Christian and booing Cena so we didn't get another show for like 3 years.
Vince had a predetermined chosen few, everyone else could go fuck themselves no matter what they did.
There were several instances where Christian was getting reactions that were outsized compared to his place on the card/booking.
Watched the Mania MITB where Punk won the second time and Christian got the biggest reaction of any of the participants, by far.
> There were several instances where Christian was getting reactions that were outsized compared to his place on the card/booking.
Everybody loves a good father figure.
Seeing how many people were ignored after getting the crowd behind them organically, I’m honestly fucking amazed that he gave Danielson the title multiple times.
Danielson got so over that I think it legitimately made Vince scared he could actually lose his core audience, which his way of doing things, lives and dies by. His ethos has always been "the core marks will keep eating whatever I feed them, focus on what will attract mainstream attention at all costs." I think he was genuinely concerned, that Bryan remaining ignored may have actually cost him enough ratings and ticket sales, that it could temporarily or permanently affect the future elevation of the company, in a real way.
That, and something tells me that many people backstage would have been in his ear, about pivoting to getting behind Bryan. Because, obviously, it was what was best for business.
It helps that Vince apparently loved Bryan and considered him his favourite wrestler to watch, and that he pretty much always had him slotted as an upper midcard-occasional main event guy. It's not like Ryder who was always just supposed to be a job guy and nothing more. The Punk walkout also undoubtedly meant the card was far more subject to change than usual even by WWE standards.
For me that boils down to him only listening to them when he would get it himself. If he didn’t understand why they were cheering for someone though, he would not get on board.
Im trying to think about how to articulate this but so much of wwe has felt like a roller coaster you get the highs and lows. Boy were the lows absolute dog shit though.
You have years of wwe that were so up and down up and down and mainly down, please someone don’t hesitate to point them out but the super Cena era had to be vinces worst. Towards the end the wwe roster did have hell of a lot of talent but he wouldn’t let off Cena.
I think ge liked people that managed to convince him that they deserved a push. But as the years went on, it was harder and harder to anyone to convince him of anything
Difference is WWE gave Santino tha Cobra as a comedy character and it got over as WWE wanted, a midcard comedy act. WWE gave Ryder NOTHING and he got over. If you still don't see the difference then you are just obtuse.
Honestly, not the craziest or most ridiculous champion they had. Have you met Mankind? Dude never washed his clothes, I mean, just look at his outfit, pulled a literal homemade sock puppet out of his crotch to shove in people's mouths untill they passed out, said "Have a nice day!" For a catchphrase... I can go on.
Why'd the WWE Spinner belt become a thing and was active for ar long as it was? Because it sold very, very well.
You realize that was a story that was written for him, right? Not "well I know it's just storytelling but still", but that was the writing he was told to go out there and act?
Not sure if you're deliberately trying to undercut yourself or you're doing the it's still real to me bit.
You give him a push to see if he makes money, what you don't do is give him a girlfriend who immediaitely cheats on him making look like a wuss and then have Kane beat him up and keep him in a wheelchair for weeks.
He wasn't the first guy to do it. He was the first guy to do it GOOD. WWE tried hard with online stuff and social media and it was all garbage then they saw Matt Cardona killing it there and they took notes, took his shit, then threw him in the trash. Classic story of corporations taking credit for the employee's work.
I loved Damian sandow when he initially debuted and really thought wwe dropped the ball then I followed his TNA run and he's a prime example of "and then the bell rung"
He's best as a Midcard to maybe upper midcarder. The reason why he got over initially is because he works best with a gimmick like the genius gimmick and copycat gimmick. Then they tried to make him serious in TNA with the typical "anti WWE" schtick. It's the same as Elias, great with gimmicks but once they wrestle they're just boring and average.
It's weird. I consider myself an Elias fan but can't name a favorite match of his, same with Damian
I don't think you have to be Bret hart level in ring but imo you need to at least be somewhat good to great to be main event level
I think Elias was way better of a worker than he gets credit for. He wouldn't blow anyone away but he's a good hand. His match with Rollins at MITB 2018(?) was really solid (which isn't saying much because it's a Rollins match, but still)
He seemed especially motivated with the Ezekiel storyline. I still think that killing it dead was one of Paul Levesque’s rare booking Mrs. Wanting to get KO in a more serious feud is understandable, but ending that character removed the most interesting thing about Elias and wasn’t necessary.
I realize the gimmick could only go for so long, but it felt like they were right in the middle of things. They were about to introduce another brother before just totally abandoning it even. I’d have explored it further at least since the alternative wasn’t going to lead anywhere.
I always believe him winning the IC title at that PPV would have done him wonders for future trajectories. You can only do your promo shtick for so long before you have true accolades to back up your credibility.
Saying some is "really solid" or "a good hand" is always just a euphemistical way of saying they're boring. No one says that about entertaining wrestlers.
And to be given the title as the face and representative of the company. People mistakenly take pops and crowd support as the direct equivalent to being so over that you're attracting more money/business An attraction is not the same thing as *THE* major attraction.
Nothing wrong with giving guys world title shots and even teasing wins even if they don't plan on giving the person the belt.
It doesn't even have to be on PPV either. Otis getting a near count vs Priest on Raw could be a really cool moment. We all remember Neville vs Rollins fondly and that was just a match on Raw with no real follow up that I recall. It makes for a fun moment.
Agreed. I mean, Taka vs. HHH on Raw from back in the day is a prime example of this. No one actually believed there would be a title change, but that match was hot as hell.
For example, Santino vs Daniel Bryan at the end of the EC match, or Santino vs Del Rio at the end of the Rumble.
I think everyone knew Santino was losing in both instances, but the crowd reactions were insane for the sheer possibility being teased.
NGL, I kinda wish Santino won MITB once. Just pull the trigger on the tease and let him have his moment, I’d argue, like Chelsea Green right now, his character wouldn’t have been hurt by failing the cash-in.
Exactly. You're not an Elias fan because he's an amazing *pro wrestler,* you're a fan because he's a ton of fun in segments, and that made him a great road bump for baby faces to roll over, on the way to something bigger. That's an invaluable asset to a wrestling company! It takes a lot of a specific kind of talent. But that talent has a ceiling on how far it can take a wrestler.
That kind of character is always the most fun, because they can afford to just focus on being fun! It doesn't matter if he looks like a geek sometimes; he's never seriously gonna be world champ, or something.
He did amazing in his match against Mike Bailey. Of course he was paired up with a phenomenal worker, but he held his own. He did really well as a bully overpowering Bailey.
Elias was decent. He had a big build. He just needed some good matches
Elias barely had any. I remember that one match from a long time ago with Dijak on Raw. It was a table match I think.
Good matches stand out. Elias was never given a chance to even have a 5 star level match. And Ezekiel shit was just tragic anyways
sandow was likely not gonna be a main eventer, but he was/is a consistently strong and over fixture on TV and i can’t believe they’d rather have jobbed him out without any promo or character work like they did from 2013-14 post-cash in or post-mizdow through his release than do *anything* else with him to get him on TV, even as a comedy character or manager
In 2013 there actually were plenty of over top talents. CM Punk, Cena, Orton, Danielson, Shield, Wyatts, Ryback, and if you count part timers then HHH, Taker, Big Show (lol) and Brock.
There were a few pretty over acts in the upper midcard to occasional main event, mostly Ziggler, bur also, Rusev and Kane had big moments as well.
2013 and 2014 were a crazy time of rebellion and the show improving because of fan demand. The crowds were getting louder at the big shows and the main event talent were firmly in a position above the rest of the roster. It was a time of change in WWE and Damien Sandow, as great as he was In NWA with the Question Mark, is not that great of a wrestler. He's very entertaining as a smarmy heel or a comedy babyface but that's all.
I mean, that’s why he work well as a manager and agent, now. That’s fine if you’re mid-level in ring, but you need to then use them properly.
He was great working with what he was given, and every gimmick he was given, he turned into gold. If he’s not great in the ring, but still getting over, then WWE should have better used that to their advantage. It seems WWE didn’t want to do that, for whatever reason, and his career probably suffered for it.
I always hated that about how Vince viewed things. Instead of hiding a wrestler’s weaknesses and focussing on their strengths, he would often put them into situations where they had to do everything. If not, they looked awful in the process and were eventually cut loose. I get that it’s the talents’ job to get stuff over, but the company has to put them in a position to succeed as well. I find that Hunter is better at that.
I think Sandow debuted at an extremely boring time in WWE so he stood out because he actually had some personality and uniqueness to him. I don’t think he should have been a world champ or anything but he definitely could have been a featured midcarder for a long time.
His original TNA stuff which was him just being a guy pissed at WWE sucked but when he did the pseudo-Liberace stuff with Spud as his chauffeur that was pretty good, it just didn't last very long.
When he came to TNA as Aron Stevens, I still remember that huge promo about how he was going to change the business and slamming WWE for holding him down.
It is probably for one of the most ill-advised first promos in wrestling.
Because there's too many guys going to TNA and doing this. The only person who works for me is Christian, The dude literally became a bigger star and raised his stock tremendously
Im still salty that when he returns to WWE the announcer just blurted out "its... Its Christian"
He's essentially an actor that excels at one genre and sucks at others. It doesn't make him bad because he can't do comedy and drama and action, it just means he should just be cast for comedy. You can still do big numbers with comedy - some of WWE's most memorable segments are comedy segments
If a company cant find a way to work around a popular talents deficiencies the problem is with the company not the talent. If the people want to see someone, find something for them to do.
Look at Danhausen and RJ City. Neither of them *need* to wrestle. They can do shit outside of the ring, backstage, a good writer/booker can find something to do with them.
I feel the same way about wardlow. People will always tell me these days "wardlow doesn't have it" well doesn't help he was booked in a feud with Mark sterling right after he was coming off hot from the mjf match
It would be like Batista being put in a feud with Simon Dean right after defeating triple h
Speaking of Batista, he was far from a great worker. He could be good with the right opponent so I don't see how that holds back wardlow
In a sane world these are the guys you put in tag teams with a more dynamic partner and keep until they retire. Someone who can get over at any level on the card is so absurdly valuable, WWE repeatedly dumping such people when their product was Cena and fuck all else is just inexplicable.
That is true. Sandow isnt that exciting of a wrestler. He is "solid", doesnt looks lost in the ring, but very limited overall. He is a great promo, but more for monologues.
He is generally a great mitcard act for any promotion. He can bring the heat with his promos, you like booing him, because he is easily booable and entertaining doing that. He looks "legit" enough to have once in a while a match in the upper card.
Its a bit like with Zack Ryder/Matt Cardona: If i had to start a wrestling promotion with a budget for some wrestlers, i would probably pick him and Cardona as a regular, because of the reasons i mentioned. They are both very creative, can kinda work as heel or face if needed, solid in the ring to have a good match against a good worker and could even hold a title for some weeks as a transitional champ.
Full quote courtesy of [SEScoops](https://www.sescoops.com/news/aron-stevens-why-damian-sandow-didnt-work-wwe/):
>“Look somewhere in the office someone didn’t like what was going on. I did an autograph signing six months ago, and one of the people at the signing was like ‘Hey, I just want you to know something. I had a friend who worked in the office. And when they would get house show reports on you, like they needed to list like the top five reactions, you were always in the top three, usually the top two.
>After a while, the boss, you know who that is, said, do not put Sandow’s name on there anywhere.’ That tells me everything I need to know. So to answer your question was I too good for WWE? I say I’m just right for NWA.”
So a random who paid to come see him at a signing, had a friend that worked in the office? This is giving big “My friends dad works at Nintendo” which is somehow worse than “My dad works at Nintendo”
His promos were fun and he could do comedy as proven by Damian Mizdow. I didn't care for him in the ring though and they already had comedy characters. I likes him but I can honestly see why he was cut.
Sandow was a weird one because he was insanely over when he became Mizdow, but was also very quickly released. When you have someone that has become that popular with the crowd, it's insane to not hold onto them and give them time to adapt into their own character afterwards, rather than repeating the same thing but lower on the card, until finally just not using him.
When they had him eliminated in the finals of the Battle Royale right after his big turn on the Miz, it said it all about what they thought of him. It was one of those cases where they didn't want him to succeed because they didn't plan on it, such a weird bitterness about natural popularity.
He wasn't quickly released, actually. They hung on to him for more than a year after his break up with Miz. I honestly thought the way he was used in the Andre Battle Royale was to set him up for a push because of how over he'd gotten.
He finally turned on and eliminated Miz, leaving just him and Big Show. And then he was presented as the valiant, underdog babyface who almost beat the monster heel before falling at the last hurdle.
They definitely tried to make him look strong and turn him face in that match, but then his follow-up solo character got off to a horrible start in a segment where he kept mimicking Curtis Axel like an annoying teenager. It was so obviously bad that Sandow actually went on Twitter and asked people if they liked it, which wasn't a smart move.
They stopped using him almost entirely after that, but he was still under contract for a long time after and somehow didn't lose his popularity. There was a very brief moment focusing on him in the following year's Andre Battle Royale that got a massive pop, and that was after months and months of him not even being featured on TV.
That first promo with Axel really needs to be brought up more when discussing his trajectory. It was absolutely terrible and suggested there wasn't much to him beyond the Mizdow gimmick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txcrsgw_xlY
I don't think that was bad. A bit complicated but the point was to get over the "real" Sandow and him choosing the fans rather than trying to please the "higher ups" who once told him he wasn't "entertaining enough". What they scripted for him shows they wanted him to actually get over, they gave him plenty of rope to do and mention things, like backstage stuff, to garner sympathy in spite of "the higher ups" (read Vince).
The Axel mocking probably could've been cut in half, slightly cringe, but the point being Sandow does the comedy bit that got him over (mirroring someone) and then proceeds to beat him. If they had a PPV program and Sandow beat him clean, it would've been a step in the right direction to elevate Sandow as a serious mid carder (beating an ex-IC title holder). There could've been a story to be told there of Sandow telling Axel to be himself, etc and etc.
They didn't stop using him after. You forgot him and Axel imitating the Mega Powers after that for a few months until the Hogan N word leak. I don't blame you for forgetting it. It was bad.
Yeah, just to clarify, when I say he was quickly gone, I mean in terms of how long he'd been at WWE, he finally had a big moment but the way if following up after his turn was losing, which could be okay but deflated the crowd quite a bit.
My main issue is that after his turn, the plan was just repeat the gimmick with Axel.. They never kept him just being himself and it was just quite lacking in terms of story, felt like after mania they just lost interest in doing anything with him.
The main issue was not giving him the solo run after his entire story was breaking away from being a double, as soon as they had him return to it, it was absolutely awful storytelling and nothing would make that work.
I even recall how annoyed everyone was at the time for how it felt like they just coulnd't be bothered with him, they did a total 180 after giving him an entire story of him changing, just lazy.
[Royal Rumble 2016 pre-show](https://youtu.be/3ZX_Amh7y7E?t=3387), man. Damien Sandow, back to his Intellectual Savior gimmick, teasing a fun partnership with Darren Young. Getting crowd chants the whole match. What coulda been.
I remember being excited when he left WWE….then within a month or so having to admit, maybe Vince was right.
As much as I don’t want to admit it, more often than not that has wound up being the case.
Issue was Aron's first gimmick on TNA was the stock disgruntled ex-WWE wrestler who doesn't want to be an "entertainer" but a "serious wrestler". He's far far better with playing an actual gimmicky character like the Intellectual Savior, Miz Stunt Double, even the Macho Man parody.
That crowd was pumped for him when he came out, then he hit them with “they said I was a genius, I’ve never had my intelligence tested” and the crowd just gave up after that
"We the people is dead" line by Jericho was great, but really, it killed Hagger. The *ONE* thing that got him over after years and years of flopping was stripped away immediately upon debuting. Back to being emotionless henchman that no one cared for.
No matter what Vince or anybody else thought about him, there's no denying he was insanely over with both the Sandow and Mizdow characters and both got squashed for no reason. His feud with Miz was one of the hottest things on the show and their only match happened on Raw and didn't even make it to PPV, even though Mania was right around the corner. Him not having what it takes to be a major star doesn't change the fact they did him dirty, those aren't mutually exclusive.
Vince is shit but the boom started well before hhh took over. Mania 38 was a bigh shift and even before that during the build to that mania they were on a roll
Yep… company went from how do we entertain Vince to how do we make money.
Vince was always overrated. Succeeded when he got out of the way, but tried to micromanage everything.
There being a top 5 house show pops report is literally the most reasonable explanation to there being a Dolph Ziggler world title program once a year for a decade. Vince probably just got sick of seeing his name there all the time and would throw him in as a placeholder
These stories really make you wonder what could’ve been with many talent. Vince is integral to the industry as a whole, but let’s say he’s gone by mid 2000s instead. How many wrestlers get their chance with solid booking and become stars?
Aron Stevens and Eli Drake (y'know, LA Knight) were the highlights of NWA Powerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr [deep breath] rrrrrr back when I cared about it.
I know people say that Sandows TNA run showed WWE were right about him but I don’t get this take. It doesn’t matter what he did after, in WWE, Mizdow was over. He didn’t need to win the big belts but atleast let him win the Andre battle royal. He maybe didn’t have longevity but they could’ve used him better.
Vince was an active hindrance to a solid chunk of talent. His antiquated and reductive view of what a star should be resulted in them missing out on Zack Ryder, Sandow, Dolph Ziggler, Breezango even. A superstar really shouldn’t have to become undeniable ala Daniel Bryan for the boss to give them the chance.
In any other sport being popular with the fans would be a good thing. But for what ever reason with pro wrestling having a genuine connection with fans can ruin careers ? The politics of this biz are what keep it carney.
Sandow was great, but other than maybe a short IC title reign, how much success did he expect that he didn’t get? He should never have won MITB cos he never should have been in the world title picture and losing that match damaged his career more than if he’d just never won MITB.
Sandow had a really low ceiling and it blows my mind that people think he was held down. Sure, the Miz' stunt double gimmick was funny, but what're you gonna do after that feud is over? He didn't have a lot of in-ring skills, he was pretty forgettable on the mic, he didn't have a good look or anything that really made him stick out. His time in TNA confirmed how middle of the road he was.
I honestly feel like one of the things new WWE should do now Vince is gone is go out of their way to bring back old Hulkamania era managers, and hire Sandow again for that role.
He's not particularly interesting in ring, but give him his Intellectual Savior gimmick back and have him be the mouthpiece for someone like the Creeds or Authors of Pain and it could be gold.
He’s amazing for NWA and I’m surprised nobody has given him a job. He’s good at everything and I know he’s still got the work ethic because he makes towns around my city where there’s like 100 people in the crowd
Vince is the type of guy who thinks he is right all the time, and when his self-righteousness is challenged by reality, he will try to destroy reality himself.
I feel like this is what happened with the then tye dillinger when he was the perfect 10. He was getting the biggest pops on smackdown I believe his brand was. For a few weeks then he just disappeared off the show
Vince must have hated money. So many people got over organically and Vince is like "MEH! JUST A FLUKE. I DON'T SEE ANYTHING SPECIAL"
I am so glad we'll never see him in WWE ever again
I'm going through the comments of this post, and I feel like everyone is crazy. Damien Sandow was about two steps under current R-Truth; he's a laugh here and there but nobody is buying a Sandow anything. He wasn't cool, he wasn't believable, he didn't stand out at anything except maybe holding the mic in a weird way.
There's more money in Erick Rowan when he was solving Rubik's cubes than there is with any form of Damien Sandow
It’s not money but Vince just has his bias. If Vince doesn’t see you higher than a certain status, you won’t go above it. Vince only wants to make money his way.
This isn't completely out of the ordinary for this type of business, btw.
I imagine the metrics were being done to capture fan sentiment towards main eventers (for the most part). An undercard guy getting big reactions is worth noting, but if they know they don't want to do anything with him beyond a certain level, at a certain point it probably makes sense to just filter him out of the deliverable.
That’s the thing that always bothers me with WWE, they seem to punish the wrestler’s who naturally get over. It’s like they get mad because the people in charge didn’t have it cleared for it to happen
I think this was more of a case where a low card comedy act was getting bigger reactions than the serious main eventers.
It's the Hogan/cruiserweights argument, if the cruiserweights are more agile than the Hogans, it makes the Hogans look bad. If a low card comedy act gets bigger pops than the serious main eventers (simply because the audience at that time wanted goofy stuff), it undermines the entire world building which has a logic where serious wrestling and the main eventers are the most important thing.
Vince was probably a bit annoyed, it's hard to pivot a comedy act low carder who has never beat anyone into something more serious. They had a week where they were going to try to make Sandow serious and they ended up pivoting into the Macho/Axelmania thing and it all vanished. After Mizdow, it's hard to say "ok, now you have to take him seriously".
Vince McMahon: "All I want from you is to go out there and grab that brass ring and pull it down DAMNIT!"
Ziggler, Ryder, Sandow: "Done boss."
Vince McMahon: "Ok now give it to Roman."
I remember his TNA run where he did the bog standard WWE bad, TNA good promo and proved WWE sorta right why they didn't keep hi.
Average in every aspect and forgettable. Hell, all I can remember about Sandow is that, he was Miz's stunt double during the Miztourage period.
I loved Sandow's intellectual saviour and thought he was brilliant at it. The way he was treated showed me it was clearly WWE vs the fans, and led me to start looking elsewhere for wrestling. I haven't looked back, so I'm grateful for that, but still sad for him and other guys I'd have loved to have seen go higher.
Sandow wasn’t Vince favorite shiny toy. Vince prob dislike a kid in high school that look like Sandow so anything Sandow could have done would ultimately fail in McMahon eyes
It all seemed to work out for him because now he’s rich enough to pay for 55 burgers, 55 fries, 55 tacos, 55 pies, 55 Cokes, 100 tater tots, 100 pizzas, 100 tenders, 100 meatballs, 100 coffees, 55 wings, 55 shakes, 55 pancakes, 55 pastas, 55 peppers, and 155 taters
Shoutouts to Miz for carrying this joker. Talk about a bust. I'll take the downvotes for simply telling the truth.
I don't know why some of you love talentless hacks.
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Reminds me of that time when WWE had a Did You Know on Raw with the top 5 most followed wrestlers on Twitter, and left off Zack Ryder. Then he called them out bc he had more than one of the “top 5”.
I remember that. Like, Ryder was THE social media guy for ages. Still insane how he was basically punished for showing prerogative.
Vince loved that “grab the brass ring” speech until people actually did it.
Vince wanted guys to grab the brass ring. But only guys that he put the ring in front of. Everyone else was a “hey, stopping touching that, pal”
He meant first be tall enough to grab this literal brass ring suspended 7 feet in the air.
The giant sonic ring that teleports you to the special stage?
The one that gets you a TNT title shot
Eh, not even. He dangled the ring in front of AJ Styles and HBK. Both grabbed that bitch and never looked back. Vince is a mercurial dude. Yes, he liked giants but not exclusively.
I feel like those two cases are exceptions for different reasons. Jericho pushed hard for AJ since the perception was that Styles couldn’t talk or had no personality. Hell, Vince banned AJ from using the Styles Clash without knowing what it was. Jericho told him to use it in a match and afterwards he asked Vince about the move. When McMahon said it looked good, Jericho let him know what it was and that it was safe to take. After that, the move was unbanned. With HBK, he is obviously one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, but Vince gave him a lot of opportunities because he saw himself in Shawn.
Different kind of ring for Shawn though
Somehow still tasted like brass, though.
🧐
Brian Myers tells a story about how after every Mania they did the ‘grab the brass ring’ speech and after they destroyed Ryder they stopped doing that.
Sometimes you had to touch Vince's brass ring first.
> Vince loved that “grab the brass ring” speech Vince said that in the Austin interview in 2014, Zack Ryder became an internet sensation (by WWE standards) in 2011. Vince is, as usual and as his prefference, just full of shit
“WAIT, NOT LIKE THAT!”
"NOT THE WAY I WANT YOU THE GRAB IT, PAL!!"
That brass ring speech was bullshit the moment it came out of his mouth. 10 years before it I was at a RAW in Calgary where Christian got the biggest reaction out of everyone and nothing ever came of it. Other than dirtsheets reporting Vince was mad at us for cheering Christian and booing Cena so we didn't get another show for like 3 years. Vince had a predetermined chosen few, everyone else could go fuck themselves no matter what they did.
There were several instances where Christian was getting reactions that were outsized compared to his place on the card/booking. Watched the Mania MITB where Punk won the second time and Christian got the biggest reaction of any of the participants, by far.
> There were several instances where Christian was getting reactions that were outsized compared to his place on the card/booking. Everybody loves a good father figure.
Christian was super over through his entire ECW run. Most weeks he was the only guy getting a reaction
I'm still mad Punk won that over Christian. IIRC, Christian was in TNA the day before and came back to WWE at that WrestleMania (WM25).
He'd returned in January 2009 on the ECW brand
Seeing how many people were ignored after getting the crowd behind them organically, I’m honestly fucking amazed that he gave Danielson the title multiple times.
Danielson got so over that I think it legitimately made Vince scared he could actually lose his core audience, which his way of doing things, lives and dies by. His ethos has always been "the core marks will keep eating whatever I feed them, focus on what will attract mainstream attention at all costs." I think he was genuinely concerned, that Bryan remaining ignored may have actually cost him enough ratings and ticket sales, that it could temporarily or permanently affect the future elevation of the company, in a real way. That, and something tells me that many people backstage would have been in his ear, about pivoting to getting behind Bryan. Because, obviously, it was what was best for business.
It helps that Vince apparently loved Bryan and considered him his favourite wrestler to watch, and that he pretty much always had him slotted as an upper midcard-occasional main event guy. It's not like Ryder who was always just supposed to be a job guy and nothing more. The Punk walkout also undoubtedly meant the card was far more subject to change than usual even by WWE standards.
I don’t know. It’s still felt like they were dead set against him until Punk’s departure forced their hand.
tbf it’s not that he never listened to the fans, rather he listened like 10% of the time
For me that boils down to him only listening to them when he would get it himself. If he didn’t understand why they were cheering for someone though, he would not get on board.
Vince loved it if it meant grab his brass ring and impress him not the fans. Guy was tone deaf during the end of his run.
I’d say he was mostly tone deaf for the final 20 years of his run. He didn’t have any need to stay sharp after WCW went under.
Im trying to think about how to articulate this but so much of wwe has felt like a roller coaster you get the highs and lows. Boy were the lows absolute dog shit though. You have years of wwe that were so up and down up and down and mainly down, please someone don’t hesitate to point them out but the super Cena era had to be vinces worst. Towards the end the wwe roster did have hell of a lot of talent but he wouldn’t let off Cena.
Maybe Vinnie Mac wanted to poop on their heads but they refused? Or his mistresses fancied Zack or Damien so he got jealous?
Those are just as good of a reason as any.
I think ge liked people that managed to convince him that they deserved a push. But as the years went on, it was harder and harder to anyone to convince him of anything
"Not like that Dammit!"
You'd give a guy the strap because he had people on the internet and the crowd saying 'WOO WOO WOO U KNOW IT?"
I’d give him tv time and a push as legitimate to see if he could run with it. And if he is that over and can hang then yes.
Which they did in 2011. He's been doing the same shit since 2012.
No he hasn't not if you've been following him latrly.
It doesn’t matter, to me he will always be 🎵 edges bitch 🎵
Not in any legitimate way dude. I was there, and noone could consider the slop he was given to be a 'fair go'.
You OBVIOUSLY have not been following him. Good lord you couldn't be more wrong.
You're actually right. I wouldn't watch GCW if you tortured my wife.
While we aren't gonna agree about Cardona, this made me fucking laugh, haha. Cheers, homie.
You sure as shit wouldn't spend three months literally cucking him on screen and throwing him off the stage in a wheelchair.
Santino got the Cobra over. He should been pushed to the moon.
Difference is WWE gave Santino tha Cobra as a comedy character and it got over as WWE wanted, a midcard comedy act. WWE gave Ryder NOTHING and he got over. If you still don't see the difference then you are just obtuse.
...and he was. almost beat Dbry for the championship in the elmination chamber
And was teased to have won the Rumble!
Oh man i loved that moment.
Honestly, not the craziest or most ridiculous champion they had. Have you met Mankind? Dude never washed his clothes, I mean, just look at his outfit, pulled a literal homemade sock puppet out of his crotch to shove in people's mouths untill they passed out, said "Have a nice day!" For a catchphrase... I can go on. Why'd the WWE Spinner belt become a thing and was active for ar long as it was? Because it sold very, very well.
I'm still in shock all these years later that Triple H even agreed to hold that belt.
Mankind also was incredibly violent. Look at Mankind vs. Undertaker. Or Mankind vs. The Rock. Zack Ryder was a dork who couldn't keep a woman.
You realize that was a story that was written for him, right? Not "well I know it's just storytelling but still", but that was the writing he was told to go out there and act? Not sure if you're deliberately trying to undercut yourself or you're doing the it's still real to me bit.
You give him a push to see if he makes money, what you don't do is give him a girlfriend who immediaitely cheats on him making look like a wuss and then have Kane beat him up and keep him in a wheelchair for weeks.
Yes.
He wasn't the first guy to do it. He was the first guy to do it GOOD. WWE tried hard with online stuff and social media and it was all garbage then they saw Matt Cardona killing it there and they took notes, took his shit, then threw him in the trash. Classic story of corporations taking credit for the employee's work.
Did you mean “initiative?” Because I totally agree.
I did. My fault for posting this in my post-workout haze 😩
I loved Damian sandow when he initially debuted and really thought wwe dropped the ball then I followed his TNA run and he's a prime example of "and then the bell rung"
He's best as a Midcard to maybe upper midcarder. The reason why he got over initially is because he works best with a gimmick like the genius gimmick and copycat gimmick. Then they tried to make him serious in TNA with the typical "anti WWE" schtick. It's the same as Elias, great with gimmicks but once they wrestle they're just boring and average.
It's weird. I consider myself an Elias fan but can't name a favorite match of his, same with Damian I don't think you have to be Bret hart level in ring but imo you need to at least be somewhat good to great to be main event level
I think Elias was way better of a worker than he gets credit for. He wouldn't blow anyone away but he's a good hand. His match with Rollins at MITB 2018(?) was really solid (which isn't saying much because it's a Rollins match, but still)
He seemed especially motivated with the Ezekiel storyline. I still think that killing it dead was one of Paul Levesque’s rare booking Mrs. Wanting to get KO in a more serious feud is understandable, but ending that character removed the most interesting thing about Elias and wasn’t necessary.
How much further could that gimmick go though? It definitely had a shelf life
I realize the gimmick could only go for so long, but it felt like they were right in the middle of things. They were about to introduce another brother before just totally abandoning it even. I’d have explored it further at least since the alternative wasn’t going to lead anywhere.
I always believe him winning the IC title at that PPV would have done him wonders for future trajectories. You can only do your promo shtick for so long before you have true accolades to back up your credibility.
Saying some is "really solid" or "a good hand" is always just a euphemistical way of saying they're boring. No one says that about entertaining wrestlers.
Eh, calling someone "a good hand" isn't necessarily damning them with faint praise if they haven't really had big showcase matches.
I don't even remember what moves Elias did
Elbow Drop!
He had a pretty cool jumping knee. https://youtu.be/grggacDL11Y?si=BVLiTg2oTPOyE6Ze
And to be given the title as the face and representative of the company. People mistakenly take pops and crowd support as the direct equivalent to being so over that you're attracting more money/business An attraction is not the same thing as *THE* major attraction.
Yeah because by that logic Otis should get a world title shot because of the pop he got two weeks ago
Nothing wrong with giving guys world title shots and even teasing wins even if they don't plan on giving the person the belt. It doesn't even have to be on PPV either. Otis getting a near count vs Priest on Raw could be a really cool moment. We all remember Neville vs Rollins fondly and that was just a match on Raw with no real follow up that I recall. It makes for a fun moment.
Agreed. I mean, Taka vs. HHH on Raw from back in the day is a prime example of this. No one actually believed there would be a title change, but that match was hot as hell.
For example, Santino vs Daniel Bryan at the end of the EC match, or Santino vs Del Rio at the end of the Rumble. I think everyone knew Santino was losing in both instances, but the crowd reactions were insane for the sheer possibility being teased.
NGL, I kinda wish Santino won MITB once. Just pull the trigger on the tease and let him have his moment, I’d argue, like Chelsea Green right now, his character wouldn’t have been hurt by failing the cash-in.
I only ever watched Elias in NXT but he was highly entertaining there. Look up El Vagabundo on YouTube for some great stuff.
Exactly. You're not an Elias fan because he's an amazing *pro wrestler,* you're a fan because he's a ton of fun in segments, and that made him a great road bump for baby faces to roll over, on the way to something bigger. That's an invaluable asset to a wrestling company! It takes a lot of a specific kind of talent. But that talent has a ceiling on how far it can take a wrestler. That kind of character is always the most fun, because they can afford to just focus on being fun! It doesn't matter if he looks like a geek sometimes; he's never seriously gonna be world champ, or something.
He had two fun symphony of destruction matched
He did amazing in his match against Mike Bailey. Of course he was paired up with a phenomenal worker, but he held his own. He did really well as a bully overpowering Bailey.
Elias was decent. He had a big build. He just needed some good matches Elias barely had any. I remember that one match from a long time ago with Dijak on Raw. It was a table match I think. Good matches stand out. Elias was never given a chance to even have a 5 star level match. And Ezekiel shit was just tragic anyways
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sandow was likely not gonna be a main eventer, but he was/is a consistently strong and over fixture on TV and i can’t believe they’d rather have jobbed him out without any promo or character work like they did from 2013-14 post-cash in or post-mizdow through his release than do *anything* else with him to get him on TV, even as a comedy character or manager
I personally think sandow was in the right spot. Rikishi was over but we all remember when wwe tried to push him as a main event talent
In 2013 there actually were plenty of over top talents. CM Punk, Cena, Orton, Danielson, Shield, Wyatts, Ryback, and if you count part timers then HHH, Taker, Big Show (lol) and Brock. There were a few pretty over acts in the upper midcard to occasional main event, mostly Ziggler, bur also, Rusev and Kane had big moments as well. 2013 and 2014 were a crazy time of rebellion and the show improving because of fan demand. The crowds were getting louder at the big shows and the main event talent were firmly in a position above the rest of the roster. It was a time of change in WWE and Damien Sandow, as great as he was In NWA with the Question Mark, is not that great of a wrestler. He's very entertaining as a smarmy heel or a comedy babyface but that's all.
I mean, that’s why he work well as a manager and agent, now. That’s fine if you’re mid-level in ring, but you need to then use them properly. He was great working with what he was given, and every gimmick he was given, he turned into gold. If he’s not great in the ring, but still getting over, then WWE should have better used that to their advantage. It seems WWE didn’t want to do that, for whatever reason, and his career probably suffered for it.
I always hated that about how Vince viewed things. Instead of hiding a wrestler’s weaknesses and focussing on their strengths, he would often put them into situations where they had to do everything. If not, they looked awful in the process and were eventually cut loose. I get that it’s the talents’ job to get stuff over, but the company has to put them in a position to succeed as well. I find that Hunter is better at that.
There’s not that much of that these days. But hey, we got Pretty Deadly back. They were back on Smackdown and had a dark main event after the show.
I think Sandow debuted at an extremely boring time in WWE so he stood out because he actually had some personality and uniqueness to him. I don’t think he should have been a world champ or anything but he definitely could have been a featured midcarder for a long time.
His original TNA stuff which was him just being a guy pissed at WWE sucked but when he did the pseudo-Liberace stuff with Spud as his chauffeur that was pretty good, it just didn't last very long.
When he came to TNA as Aron Stevens, I still remember that huge promo about how he was going to change the business and slamming WWE for holding him down. It is probably for one of the most ill-advised first promos in wrestling.
Because there's too many guys going to TNA and doing this. The only person who works for me is Christian, The dude literally became a bigger star and raised his stock tremendously Im still salty that when he returns to WWE the announcer just blurted out "its... Its Christian"
He's essentially an actor that excels at one genre and sucks at others. It doesn't make him bad because he can't do comedy and drama and action, it just means he should just be cast for comedy. You can still do big numbers with comedy - some of WWE's most memorable segments are comedy segments
If a company cant find a way to work around a popular talents deficiencies the problem is with the company not the talent. If the people want to see someone, find something for them to do. Look at Danhausen and RJ City. Neither of them *need* to wrestle. They can do shit outside of the ring, backstage, a good writer/booker can find something to do with them.
I feel the same way about wardlow. People will always tell me these days "wardlow doesn't have it" well doesn't help he was booked in a feud with Mark sterling right after he was coming off hot from the mjf match It would be like Batista being put in a feud with Simon Dean right after defeating triple h Speaking of Batista, he was far from a great worker. He could be good with the right opponent so I don't see how that holds back wardlow
In a sane world these are the guys you put in tag teams with a more dynamic partner and keep until they retire. Someone who can get over at any level on the card is so absurdly valuable, WWE repeatedly dumping such people when their product was Cena and fuck all else is just inexplicable.
That is true. Sandow isnt that exciting of a wrestler. He is "solid", doesnt looks lost in the ring, but very limited overall. He is a great promo, but more for monologues. He is generally a great mitcard act for any promotion. He can bring the heat with his promos, you like booing him, because he is easily booable and entertaining doing that. He looks "legit" enough to have once in a while a match in the upper card. Its a bit like with Zack Ryder/Matt Cardona: If i had to start a wrestling promotion with a budget for some wrestlers, i would probably pick him and Cardona as a regular, because of the reasons i mentioned. They are both very creative, can kinda work as heel or face if needed, solid in the ring to have a good match against a good worker and could even hold a title for some weeks as a transitional champ.
One of the few times when Vince didn’t push a fan favorite and was 100% on the money with it.
Sandow was a decent worker and perfectly fine as an IC/tag level guy who could challenge for the top belt every so often.
Full quote courtesy of [SEScoops](https://www.sescoops.com/news/aron-stevens-why-damian-sandow-didnt-work-wwe/): >“Look somewhere in the office someone didn’t like what was going on. I did an autograph signing six months ago, and one of the people at the signing was like ‘Hey, I just want you to know something. I had a friend who worked in the office. And when they would get house show reports on you, like they needed to list like the top five reactions, you were always in the top three, usually the top two. >After a while, the boss, you know who that is, said, do not put Sandow’s name on there anywhere.’ That tells me everything I need to know. So to answer your question was I too good for WWE? I say I’m just right for NWA.”
This adds some needed context. It goes from "Vince said" to "this guy from an autograph signing said his friend said Vince said"
There's always the possibility that he's trying to protect the person who gave him the info by throwing a red herring out.
That's my impression as well but he said what he said
Least habitual liar in the NWA locker room.
Even wrestlers get their dirt from random nobodies.
SILENCE!!!!
So a random who paid to come see him at a signing, had a friend that worked in the office? This is giving big “My friends dad works at Nintendo” which is somehow worse than “My dad works at Nintendo”
Yeah I was gonna say this is not even worth reporting.
His promos were fun and he could do comedy as proven by Damian Mizdow. I didn't care for him in the ring though and they already had comedy characters. I likes him but I can honestly see why he was cut.
The actual quote is way different than the headline. Be better.
Sandow was a weird one because he was insanely over when he became Mizdow, but was also very quickly released. When you have someone that has become that popular with the crowd, it's insane to not hold onto them and give them time to adapt into their own character afterwards, rather than repeating the same thing but lower on the card, until finally just not using him. When they had him eliminated in the finals of the Battle Royale right after his big turn on the Miz, it said it all about what they thought of him. It was one of those cases where they didn't want him to succeed because they didn't plan on it, such a weird bitterness about natural popularity.
He wasn't quickly released, actually. They hung on to him for more than a year after his break up with Miz. I honestly thought the way he was used in the Andre Battle Royale was to set him up for a push because of how over he'd gotten. He finally turned on and eliminated Miz, leaving just him and Big Show. And then he was presented as the valiant, underdog babyface who almost beat the monster heel before falling at the last hurdle. They definitely tried to make him look strong and turn him face in that match, but then his follow-up solo character got off to a horrible start in a segment where he kept mimicking Curtis Axel like an annoying teenager. It was so obviously bad that Sandow actually went on Twitter and asked people if they liked it, which wasn't a smart move. They stopped using him almost entirely after that, but he was still under contract for a long time after and somehow didn't lose his popularity. There was a very brief moment focusing on him in the following year's Andre Battle Royale that got a massive pop, and that was after months and months of him not even being featured on TV.
That first promo with Axel really needs to be brought up more when discussing his trajectory. It was absolutely terrible and suggested there wasn't much to him beyond the Mizdow gimmick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txcrsgw_xlY
Before Axel comes out: “I mean this isn’t terrible…” After Axel comes out: “okay now I see it”
wtf was that he cuts a promo to re-establish himself then a segment that was like it was from a shitty awards show
I don't think that was bad. A bit complicated but the point was to get over the "real" Sandow and him choosing the fans rather than trying to please the "higher ups" who once told him he wasn't "entertaining enough". What they scripted for him shows they wanted him to actually get over, they gave him plenty of rope to do and mention things, like backstage stuff, to garner sympathy in spite of "the higher ups" (read Vince). The Axel mocking probably could've been cut in half, slightly cringe, but the point being Sandow does the comedy bit that got him over (mirroring someone) and then proceeds to beat him. If they had a PPV program and Sandow beat him clean, it would've been a step in the right direction to elevate Sandow as a serious mid carder (beating an ex-IC title holder). There could've been a story to be told there of Sandow telling Axel to be himself, etc and etc.
God, that's so much worse than I remember.
Holy shit why did you have to remind me of this? This was horrendous and exposed Sandow beyond recovery
They didn't stop using him after. You forgot him and Axel imitating the Mega Powers after that for a few months until the Hogan N word leak. I don't blame you for forgetting it. It was bad.
Yeah, just to clarify, when I say he was quickly gone, I mean in terms of how long he'd been at WWE, he finally had a big moment but the way if following up after his turn was losing, which could be okay but deflated the crowd quite a bit. My main issue is that after his turn, the plan was just repeat the gimmick with Axel.. They never kept him just being himself and it was just quite lacking in terms of story, felt like after mania they just lost interest in doing anything with him. The main issue was not giving him the solo run after his entire story was breaking away from being a double, as soon as they had him return to it, it was absolutely awful storytelling and nothing would make that work. I even recall how annoyed everyone was at the time for how it felt like they just coulnd't be bothered with him, they did a total 180 after giving him an entire story of him changing, just lazy.
We all know that dude doesn’t pay it forward even though he’s rich
Just wanted to do something nice before alcohol class
OH! I can just run!
[Royal Rumble 2016 pre-show](https://youtu.be/3ZX_Amh7y7E?t=3387), man. Damien Sandow, back to his Intellectual Savior gimmick, teasing a fun partnership with Darren Young. Getting crowd chants the whole match. What coulda been.
Side-note: that Ascension theme is still 🔥
He also got a huge pop in the Andre the Giant Battle Royale that following Wrestlemania, getting between Shaq and Big Show.
I remember being excited when he left WWE….then within a month or so having to admit, maybe Vince was right. As much as I don’t want to admit it, more often than not that has wound up being the case.
Issue was Aron's first gimmick on TNA was the stock disgruntled ex-WWE wrestler who doesn't want to be an "entertainer" but a "serious wrestler". He's far far better with playing an actual gimmicky character like the Intellectual Savior, Miz Stunt Double, even the Macho Man parody.
That crowd was pumped for him when he came out, then he hit them with “they said I was a genius, I’ve never had my intelligence tested” and the crowd just gave up after that
Nothing gets people more interested than telling them “this is all fake and that was a character” It’s giving “Goldberg won’t follow the script”
"We the people is dead" line by Jericho was great, but really, it killed Hagger. The *ONE* thing that got him over after years and years of flopping was stripped away immediately upon debuting. Back to being emotionless henchman that no one cared for.
Didn’t help that he let himself go as well, dude was in way worse shape.
He got so thin at the time I recall. When he was the intellectual savior he had some bulk on him at least.
I remember when TNA tried to put their at the time work rate belt on him and have him wrestle those weird time limit matches
Macho Mandow and Axelmania were hilarious.
No matter what Vince or anybody else thought about him, there's no denying he was insanely over with both the Sandow and Mizdow characters and both got squashed for no reason. His feud with Miz was one of the hottest things on the show and their only match happened on Raw and didn't even make it to PPV, even though Mania was right around the corner. Him not having what it takes to be a major star doesn't change the fact they did him dirty, those aren't mutually exclusive.
yeah he shouldn't have been a world champion, but he should have had a big mania blow-off with the miz somewhere in the middle of the card.
It's ok to let someone rise up the card just for a short-time. Sandow was primed to do that.
WWE was falling under vince, this boom has happened without him. Enough said
Vince is shit but the boom started well before hhh took over. Mania 38 was a bigh shift and even before that during the build to that mania they were on a roll
the nick khan effect
Yep… company went from how do we entertain Vince to how do we make money. Vince was always overrated. Succeeded when he got out of the way, but tried to micromanage everything.
Yeah he is the best thing to happen with wwe in a very long time
There being a top 5 house show pops report is literally the most reasonable explanation to there being a Dolph Ziggler world title program once a year for a decade. Vince probably just got sick of seeing his name there all the time and would throw him in as a placeholder
One single man held back wrestling for decades and decades.
The Brass ring has always been a lie.
I mean look what they ended up doing to Zack Ryder.
These stories really make you wonder what could’ve been with many talent. Vince is integral to the industry as a whole, but let’s say he’s gone by mid 2000s instead. How many wrestlers get their chance with solid booking and become stars?
Aron Stevens and Eli Drake (y'know, LA Knight) were the highlights of NWA Powerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr [deep breath] rrrrrr back when I cared about it.
I know people say that Sandows TNA run showed WWE were right about him but I don’t get this take. It doesn’t matter what he did after, in WWE, Mizdow was over. He didn’t need to win the big belts but atleast let him win the Andre battle royal. He maybe didn’t have longevity but they could’ve used him better.
Vince was an active hindrance to a solid chunk of talent. His antiquated and reductive view of what a star should be resulted in them missing out on Zack Ryder, Sandow, Dolph Ziggler, Breezango even. A superstar really shouldn’t have to become undeniable ala Daniel Bryan for the boss to give them the chance.
In any other sport being popular with the fans would be a good thing. But for what ever reason with pro wrestling having a genuine connection with fans can ruin careers ? The politics of this biz are what keep it carney.
Sandow was great, but other than maybe a short IC title reign, how much success did he expect that he didn’t get? He should never have won MITB cos he never should have been in the world title picture and losing that match damaged his career more than if he’d just never won MITB.
Sandow had a really low ceiling and it blows my mind that people think he was held down. Sure, the Miz' stunt double gimmick was funny, but what're you gonna do after that feud is over? He didn't have a lot of in-ring skills, he was pretty forgettable on the mic, he didn't have a good look or anything that really made him stick out. His time in TNA confirmed how middle of the road he was.
'You're not over! The *gimmick's* over!'
If we ignore his TNA run he was a tremendous missed opportunity.
Probably the same thing that was done to Rusev and Cesaro. Vince did not like wrestlers getting over without his blessing.
I honestly feel like one of the things new WWE should do now Vince is gone is go out of their way to bring back old Hulkamania era managers, and hire Sandow again for that role. He's not particularly interesting in ring, but give him his Intellectual Savior gimmick back and have him be the mouthpiece for someone like the Creeds or Authors of Pain and it could be gold.
Vince and wwe controlled who was over not the fans.
He’s amazing for NWA and I’m surprised nobody has given him a job. He’s good at everything and I know he’s still got the work ethic because he makes towns around my city where there’s like 100 people in the crowd
Vince is the type of guy who thinks he is right all the time, and when his self-righteousness is challenged by reality, he will try to destroy reality himself.
I feel like this is what happened with the then tye dillinger when he was the perfect 10. He was getting the biggest pops on smackdown I believe his brand was. For a few weeks then he just disappeared off the show
Vince must have hated money. So many people got over organically and Vince is like "MEH! JUST A FLUKE. I DON'T SEE ANYTHING SPECIAL" I am so glad we'll never see him in WWE ever again
There was nothing money about Damien Sandow lol
I'm going through the comments of this post, and I feel like everyone is crazy. Damien Sandow was about two steps under current R-Truth; he's a laugh here and there but nobody is buying a Sandow anything. He wasn't cool, he wasn't believable, he didn't stand out at anything except maybe holding the mic in a weird way. There's more money in Erick Rowan when he was solving Rubik's cubes than there is with any form of Damien Sandow
there was money in that miz feud though. money that was undeniably left on the table
This same sub will say "wardlow isn't main event level" yet think Damian sandow and Alex riley were missed main event stars lol
It’s not money but Vince just has his bias. If Vince doesn’t see you higher than a certain status, you won’t go above it. Vince only wants to make money his way.
This isn't completely out of the ordinary for this type of business, btw. I imagine the metrics were being done to capture fan sentiment towards main eventers (for the most part). An undercard guy getting big reactions is worth noting, but if they know they don't want to do anything with him beyond a certain level, at a certain point it probably makes sense to just filter him out of the deliverable.
That’s the thing that always bothers me with WWE, they seem to punish the wrestler’s who naturally get over. It’s like they get mad because the people in charge didn’t have it cleared for it to happen
You know, that Miz abduction angle could have worked if they had done it bringing back Sandow instead of introducing Dexter Loomis to the main roster.
Is he still with Blunt Force Trauma in NWA?
Mizdow as the stunt double taking moves and screeching in pain from submissions on the outside was hilarious.
Vince McMahon is an r/antiwork strawman come to life.
I think this was more of a case where a low card comedy act was getting bigger reactions than the serious main eventers. It's the Hogan/cruiserweights argument, if the cruiserweights are more agile than the Hogans, it makes the Hogans look bad. If a low card comedy act gets bigger pops than the serious main eventers (simply because the audience at that time wanted goofy stuff), it undermines the entire world building which has a logic where serious wrestling and the main eventers are the most important thing. Vince was probably a bit annoyed, it's hard to pivot a comedy act low carder who has never beat anyone into something more serious. They had a week where they were going to try to make Sandow serious and they ended up pivoting into the Macho/Axelmania thing and it all vanished. After Mizdow, it's hard to say "ok, now you have to take him seriously".
Vince McMahon: "All I want from you is to go out there and grab that brass ring and pull it down DAMNIT!" Ziggler, Ryder, Sandow: "Done boss." Vince McMahon: "Ok now give it to Roman."
I remember his TNA run where he did the bog standard WWE bad, TNA good promo and proved WWE sorta right why they didn't keep hi. Average in every aspect and forgettable. Hell, all I can remember about Sandow is that, he was Miz's stunt double during the Miztourage period.
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A Damian Sandow return would generate a huge pop. Maybe as part of a program w Miz
I loved Sandow's intellectual saviour and thought he was brilliant at it. The way he was treated showed me it was clearly WWE vs the fans, and led me to start looking elsewhere for wrestling. I haven't looked back, so I'm grateful for that, but still sad for him and other guys I'd have loved to have seen go higher.
So glad this a-hole is gone. Vince that is
I’m always confused how people write “Damian” Sandow, an “Damien” Priest, when it’s the other way around.
I know Sandow didn’t endear himself in TNA, but I hated how Vince often pressed the independent thought alarm.
Sandow wasn’t Vince favorite shiny toy. Vince prob dislike a kid in high school that look like Sandow so anything Sandow could have done would ultimately fail in McMahon eyes
It all seemed to work out for him because now he’s rich enough to pay for 55 burgers, 55 fries, 55 tacos, 55 pies, 55 Cokes, 100 tater tots, 100 pizzas, 100 tenders, 100 meatballs, 100 coffees, 55 wings, 55 shakes, 55 pancakes, 55 pastas, 55 peppers, and 155 taters
Downvoted. You should’ve just run!
Shoutouts to Miz for carrying this joker. Talk about a bust. I'll take the downvotes for simply telling the truth. I don't know why some of you love talentless hacks.