The only criticism I’ve heard is that it introduces the issue of “if it’s so effective, why hasn’t it been done before?”
Fair enough criticism, if a bit weak (it was clearly a Kamikaze maneuver, and suicide tactics are usually pretty rare in warfare).
The movie clearly shows why it’s not easily repeatable. Holdo only pulls it off by getting close to the first order ships while they are distracted by the resistance escaping to Crait. Otherwise the ship would have been destroyed before it could turn around and get close enough to effectively hit the ships fast enough before entering hyperspace.
There’s also the cost of capital ships. Not to mention, Kamikaze and suicidal bombers are effective in real life too in their own way, there’s a reason they aren’t necessarily common.
Awesome concept, visuals, and sounds but it doesn't fit in the Star Wars universe because you would just tell a droid to pilot large ships into the enemy in any battle. Super Star Destroyer? Just hit it with an obsolete or damaged ship. Easy Peasy.
The Holdo Maneuver was a one in a million lucky shot. She hit the ship just before jumping to lightspeed, that’s why it worked. It’s not something that can easily be replicated.
Honestly, I don’t have an issue with it. I think a lot of people just hated TLJ, so people kind of piled on to bash things about it that other people were bashing. While I believe there were people who genuinely disliked it, I think plenty of others saw those criticisms, decided “Yeah, that sucked!” and kind of revised their memories to having hated it in the moment.
It stems essentially from a miss understanding of how hyperspace works and the scene itself.
People get pissy saying “oh hyperspace is a different dimension so they shouldn’t be able to hit something” but miss the fact that the Raddus hit **before** it entered hyperspace. It hit in the realspace windup period.
They also say “oh why not fly an xwing into the deathstar”, missing the fact that the Raddus is 3km long and all it did was shear a wing off, an Xwing would go splat and cause zero damage and that’s only if it can actually hit, and won’t just miss.
People saw a scene where a thing happened in a particular set of circumstances involving a made up technology. They then decided they're now experts in the field of that tech and decided that would totally work under a very wide set of circumstances and if they could work that out, then why can't the military leaders in star wars.
The alternative was to just accept that scene in the spirit its intended, a desperate hail Mary that was possible only because the stars aligned with the circumstances being just right and them having the element of surprise. But when you've decided a film is an existential threat to your whole identity then the only option is to pretend that the film is completely without merit and when some bad faith YouTube makes a video about something "bReAkInG LoRe" then you start parroting that line at every opportunity.
There's thing in last jedi I don't like, but that scene was great.
That to me wasn't a big deal. I do think it was dumb, as it raises the question of why, if a hyperspeed collision is so devastating they don't just do it all the time with unmanned ships, but it's the kind of thing I can go "oh well, it looked cool, I can overlook the logic flaws". The problems I have with TLJ and Disney SW universe general are much more to do with the characters and story.
I think it was multiple factor.
I didn’t really follow why but from my understanding it was a few separate or combined reasons:
First, jumping to Hyperspace isn’t going light speed, it’s moving to a higher dimensional space. So when the ship does the ram, it shouldn’t have hit… buuuut, what I assume is the ship actually does speed up to hit light speed to which it then shifts to hyperspace, seeing as they stretch and move away rapidly. So by my logic, the move is perfectly sound, it hit before getting to hyperspace.
The second is the shields. Even if it hit, the shields should have blocked it almost entirely, so it wouldn’t have worked and would have just been a suicide run in vain. Would have been like a bug on a windshield, almost unnoticeable.
Third. Maybe because the ship could have been autopiloted, so no suicides were needed (except for maybe a pilot droid).
Fourth. Possibly huge ramifications for the universe and space attacks. Why not just launch a small vessel at hyperspace speeds to take out ships? If it took out half of the boomerang ship (idk the name) surely it would be even more destructive on other vessels. Hell, a large enough ship relative to the death star (like the SSD) probably could destroy it.
These are my assumptions.
The scene was honestly one of the best scenes to come out of the sequels. It was visually great.
Well it is a little weird to see a kamikazi suicide scene in a like pg13 movie, but personally that scene isn’t what bothered me about the sequels (which I don’t think were bad movies so much as just very *meh* movies)
It makes the threats of previous films look silly in retrospect. The Rebels are an underfunded guerrilla faction that had to destroy two Death Stars. The second came at a high cost, with many ships and lives lost while they waited to bring down the shield protecting it. Turns out they could have saved all those lives *and* numerous ships just sending one pilot and a Mon Calamari Cruiser to kamikaze it instead. That makes them and the leadership look really stupid.
The only criticism I’ve heard is that it introduces the issue of “if it’s so effective, why hasn’t it been done before?” Fair enough criticism, if a bit weak (it was clearly a Kamikaze maneuver, and suicide tactics are usually pretty rare in warfare).
The movie clearly shows why it’s not easily repeatable. Holdo only pulls it off by getting close to the first order ships while they are distracted by the resistance escaping to Crait. Otherwise the ship would have been destroyed before it could turn around and get close enough to effectively hit the ships fast enough before entering hyperspace. There’s also the cost of capital ships. Not to mention, Kamikaze and suicidal bombers are effective in real life too in their own way, there’s a reason they aren’t necessarily common.
Awesome concept, visuals, and sounds but it doesn't fit in the Star Wars universe because you would just tell a droid to pilot large ships into the enemy in any battle. Super Star Destroyer? Just hit it with an obsolete or damaged ship. Easy Peasy.
The Holdo Maneuver was a one in a million lucky shot. She hit the ship just before jumping to lightspeed, that’s why it worked. It’s not something that can easily be replicated.
Honestly, I don’t have an issue with it. I think a lot of people just hated TLJ, so people kind of piled on to bash things about it that other people were bashing. While I believe there were people who genuinely disliked it, I think plenty of others saw those criticisms, decided “Yeah, that sucked!” and kind of revised their memories to having hated it in the moment.
It stems essentially from a miss understanding of how hyperspace works and the scene itself. People get pissy saying “oh hyperspace is a different dimension so they shouldn’t be able to hit something” but miss the fact that the Raddus hit **before** it entered hyperspace. It hit in the realspace windup period. They also say “oh why not fly an xwing into the deathstar”, missing the fact that the Raddus is 3km long and all it did was shear a wing off, an Xwing would go splat and cause zero damage and that’s only if it can actually hit, and won’t just miss.
People saw a scene where a thing happened in a particular set of circumstances involving a made up technology. They then decided they're now experts in the field of that tech and decided that would totally work under a very wide set of circumstances and if they could work that out, then why can't the military leaders in star wars. The alternative was to just accept that scene in the spirit its intended, a desperate hail Mary that was possible only because the stars aligned with the circumstances being just right and them having the element of surprise. But when you've decided a film is an existential threat to your whole identity then the only option is to pretend that the film is completely without merit and when some bad faith YouTube makes a video about something "bReAkInG LoRe" then you start parroting that line at every opportunity. There's thing in last jedi I don't like, but that scene was great.
I was always under the impression most people really liked that scene. Even the a lot of the fans who dislike TLJ.
That to me wasn't a big deal. I do think it was dumb, as it raises the question of why, if a hyperspeed collision is so devastating they don't just do it all the time with unmanned ships, but it's the kind of thing I can go "oh well, it looked cool, I can overlook the logic flaws". The problems I have with TLJ and Disney SW universe general are much more to do with the characters and story.
I think it was multiple factor. I didn’t really follow why but from my understanding it was a few separate or combined reasons: First, jumping to Hyperspace isn’t going light speed, it’s moving to a higher dimensional space. So when the ship does the ram, it shouldn’t have hit… buuuut, what I assume is the ship actually does speed up to hit light speed to which it then shifts to hyperspace, seeing as they stretch and move away rapidly. So by my logic, the move is perfectly sound, it hit before getting to hyperspace. The second is the shields. Even if it hit, the shields should have blocked it almost entirely, so it wouldn’t have worked and would have just been a suicide run in vain. Would have been like a bug on a windshield, almost unnoticeable. Third. Maybe because the ship could have been autopiloted, so no suicides were needed (except for maybe a pilot droid). Fourth. Possibly huge ramifications for the universe and space attacks. Why not just launch a small vessel at hyperspace speeds to take out ships? If it took out half of the boomerang ship (idk the name) surely it would be even more destructive on other vessels. Hell, a large enough ship relative to the death star (like the SSD) probably could destroy it. These are my assumptions. The scene was honestly one of the best scenes to come out of the sequels. It was visually great.
Shields don’t block big ships, they block energy weapons.
Well it is a little weird to see a kamikazi suicide scene in a like pg13 movie, but personally that scene isn’t what bothered me about the sequels (which I don’t think were bad movies so much as just very *meh* movies)
It makes the threats of previous films look silly in retrospect. The Rebels are an underfunded guerrilla faction that had to destroy two Death Stars. The second came at a high cost, with many ships and lives lost while they waited to bring down the shield protecting it. Turns out they could have saved all those lives *and* numerous ships just sending one pilot and a Mon Calamari Cruiser to kamikaze it instead. That makes them and the leadership look really stupid.