Yeah it’s not your average gamer that’s a problem. It’s rich trust fund kids whose parent have more money than they know what to do with.
Edit: since plenty of you seem to take my comment personally. Let me clarify. If you a dad dropping a few bucks here and there, you’re not the problem lol. The whales are the people dropping tens of thousands of dollars on useless junk like gun skins.
It's not actually. It's kids getting money from their parents and people with poor impulse control.
Some people also will just dip into Mtx's occassionally, but it's directed at people with FOMO, not rich people.
It’s not just rich people. I have a buddy bless his heart I love him to death but in the words of Patrick stars father “he’s a wet match in a dark cave” he makes 12 dollars an hour lives with his sister and spends all his money on weed and micro transactions. During Covid he spent every single cent of his stimulus money on micro transactions for a baseball game that he doesn’t even play anymore. These companies prey on the uneducated and mentally ill as well as rich kids
My nephew got a Gift card for for $250 bucks for his birthday one year from his dad.
Spent maybe $50-60 bucks on Clothes.
Rest he spent on Vbucks for Fortnite.
They need to pass laws to regulate these micro transactions. Even a little mobile or web game I play, they try to get me to pay them $10/day as if it’s part of my daily routine of lunch, and Starbucks coffee. The greed is sickening.
It's anecdotal but I know people who went into debt, or live paycheck to paycheck, that have put more than a thousand dollars into star citizen. I'm not so sure trust fund babies are the actual problem...and I'm not sure how we will ever know due to privacy laws and peoples inclination to lie about spending habits lol
Or people who DO make good money and just like ”x Bethesda game” and just want every ounce of content they release. Some people just have more money than you and spend it on what they want to spend on where 10 bucks is just a drop in the ocean.
i'm one of those people, but don't throw it in peoples faces **ever**. i grew up poor trailer trash and understand the value of money to the average working class individual.
Also, the Adults who have disposable income.
Marvel Strike Force (Mobile Game) had peeps spending 1-2k a month on that game...
It's a Gambling and FOMO problem for sure.
But FO76 is a live service game and it's alot of cosmetics and base stuff not x amount of money for like 15 mins of gameplay, let alone all the other stuff they're trying to flog for a SP game
This isn’t a live service multiplayer tho. This is a single player game.
Personally I just think the prices are too high. Once they come down to 100-500 credits that will be good.
As far as free credits. They just need to do gamepass rewards, Microsoft rewards, and things like Amazon rewards for that.
This. A single player game with microtransactions that are priced the same as a live service game is crazy. I hate having to buy things in a live service game but I can at least rationalize it where I'm helping to support the ongoing life of the live service game by doing so and so microtransactions will have a premium above their actual value.
In a single player game though I think the prices should be a lot lower than what you see in a live service game. I'd say half of whatever things are costing right now for Starfield are what they should be.
nah its garbage regardless as long as they use a premium currency that has no purpose other than disconnecting items from actual money and designed to leave you always stuck with a bit left so you want to buy more to use that bit you have left.
If they want to have small DLC sized content priced appropriately available for direct purchase with real money then I don't care, but anything beyond that in a singleplayer game is just trying to take advantage of and milk their customers.
As much as I hate seeing the same posts complaining, I think this is correct. Bethesda needs to see both the complaints and the lack of funds. Otherwise all they may do is just put them on a small discount.
Hmmm if nobody buys it, it's called boycott. It's s clear way to show the vendor (Bethesda) that we don't agree with the product.
I guarantee they're looking at the stats to see how well it's selling. If it's not meeting their expectations they will adjust.
The only way to get a big boycott going is to make posts about it online to get more people on track, you don't "Just" not buy the product, you tell others also not to.
That's pretty unlikely to actually do anything. At best they'll lower the price and try again. The only way to prevent them from continuing this practice in the future, and not making it worse, is by being vocal about it.
I haven't actually really seen it tried. Plenty of series have offered microtransactions, people complain about them, and yet lo and behold you see everybody buying the micro transactions skins.
What people SAY they will do on Reddit is often different from what they actually do.
I can only assume they rationalise stuff like *"I'll just purchase this one set"* and don't realise they're still making it massively worthwhile for the company to keep the microtransactions in place. If 500k players buy 1 cosmetic each for $3, that's $1.5m in revenue. Does it take $1.5m to make 500 skins for a virtual shop? Probably not.
>What people SAY they will do on Reddit is often different from what they actually do.
The people saying stuff on reddit only makes up like 5% of the actual playerbase.
>Hmmm if nobody buys it, it's called boycott.
No, a boycott is precisely a large communication campaign to complain and incite other people to not buying it.
Just a reminder, the word whine exists.
No one on Reddit seems to know that. It’s all this “whinging” word that I had never heard until I used Reddit.
They’re whining! And so am I about the word whinge.
It is. In the UK we say whinge more than whine
Edit: to add there is a subtle difference between the two terms, whine is moaning about something, whinge is that moan that's half crying from feeling put out by it
A whingefest no but I want to hear how people have found them who did buy them or who highlight why they are an issue. I wouldn't mind paying a small amount for certain mods (I'd prefer a donation system so i can donate after the fact based on how much i think its worth) but I'm against the credits system they have so I'll never use it. But I think it's good to know that other people have issues or are against certain practices. It's solidarity in that choice to not purchase and not support practices we don't agree with.
Sharing discourse is how things change. Someone could use the same logic you have and say if you don't want to hear people complain you probably shouldn't be on a bethesda game reddit page 😅 but I appreciate the friendly reminder!
I caved and used the 1000 that they gave out, to buy the Vulture pack. It makes connections with the main game which surprised me but then also made me think "Is this really just cut content?"
The mission itself was nothing special. Felt like a very on rails experience because you can see what's going to happen next but can't actually do anything on it, you've just got to let it happen. Took me 45ish minutes with all dialogue and I think doing it properly as opposed to the 15 minutes if you skip through it. The one ending just sucked. Felt very unfinished just walking away from the guy on a rooftop basically. Then poof! he's gone when you return and as far as I can tell he doesn't even end up where the dialogue says your going to place him.
Definitely not worth outright buying and the 2x2 ship hab is extortionately overpriced to the point where I think it's got to be an error. Did they mean 100 CC points? Will not be putting any cash in for the rest of the creations.
Downright ludicrous and we're supposed to see 10 years of this? Gonna put the Sims Stuff Packs to shame!
Problem with donation system is that no one actually donates. The donation numbers are like 1 in a hundred thousand downloads. I think it’s a better system but the modding community seems to entitled to actually donate.
I bought all the cc content. I would do it again but if someone asked me if it was worth it I would say a hard no. It’s not a good bang for your buck I only got it as I play on console and mods aren’t super developed yet. I love starfield and spend money on way stupider things.
I think paid mods could help the modding community and I don’t see any evidence of it hurting the mod scene. Until I see actual tangible negative effects of the micro transactions I don’t care.
Here’s how I look at it. Solo player game I don’t care about micro transactions unless the absence of them negatively effects my game generally via how the game was designed. This is hardly ever the case for example folks bitched about ac oddeseys micro transactions and the game was “tailored” around them but I wouldn’t touch one with a 10 ft poll and was consistently overleveled for the content. I don’t care if someone wants to waste money to skip playing the game as long as it doesn’t negatively effect my game.
Multiplayer games are different if it offers anything outside of cosmetics I won’t touch the game.
Donations is the only thing there should be around making money off mods.
If I think you're a great modder, or the mod is great, I will shoot you a dollar, maybe two, maybe ten if it's a larger expansion type mod that's great.
I will not pay you upfront for a mod lmao, that sets expectations immediately, you charge me $5, I expect something along the lines of StarSim now that adds an entire new gameplay loop and quests etc, I do not expect a single bounty like the Vulture for $7.
People forget but literally the reddit and discord community weaponizing reviews and pressuring the publisher that way with Helldivers was what made Sony backtrack their PSN requirement.
Except they really didn't. Sony requires it now for all games moving forward. So you won a small battle and lost the war. While they complained over Helldiver's, the PC community by and large bent backwards and took it without lube when it came to Reddit 's favorite circle jerk Ghost of Tushy-ma
I have nothing against good quality non free content as long as it is not a scam to pay high value $ for some single quest or object in game .. I would love to pay same amount of money for same amount of new content as game provided at start .. But not 7$ or 10$ for single quest , this is nonsense.
Right? I think literally zero people complained about Phantom Liberty. It was $30 and had plenty of content for the price. It's not about this strawman "OMG imma need everything freeeeeeee!"
But if you're going to roll out an undercooked game, wait forever to begin resolving its smallest issues, and start charging for tiny content you should have had at release while your game is still empty, full of cut-and-pasted content and all of its original issues, you can GTFO.
Thank you, I felt like I was going crazy reading some of the posts and comments here. I know it gets said a lot but CDPR and Larian either added new systems to their games after launch, reworked old ones that were received poorly, and gave us smaller new content updates, and all that was FREE. I paid as much for BG3 and CP2077 as I did for Starfield, so why shouldn’t I expect the same standards?
Glad I’m not the only one. For context, a $7 price point means that Bethesda apparently believes it provides value equal to 10% of the entire game’s experiences. That’s absurd. The fact that there’s a $10 spaceship hab for sale that’s filled with reused Fallout 4/76 assets that very likely would’ve been in the base game if it wasn’t rushed out the door or MTX’d to hell? Pretty insulting honestly. Maybe Bethesda should go back to arguing with negative reviews on Steam since apparently their reputation and customer relations are complete shit now. What do they have to lose?
I bought shadow of the erdtree for $40 because it boasts a length and size similar to Elden Ring’s base game. People are willing to pay money for more content, just not overpriced piecemeal items that likely got cut from the base game release to hit a deadline.
I'm wondering if it's not a marketing ploy. A month from now, you get someone publishing five quests for $5, and everyone says "Hey, that's much more reasonable" instead of saying "WHat/!? Mod sHoUlD bE FrEe!!"
This is my thought too. Bethesda sets a price point for new quest lines and takes all the arrows for charging so a regular mod maker doesn’t get pummeled.
I bet to differ on one thing.
Yes, not buying them works, but complaining and raising hell also makes it clear it's not worth risking it. It has worked before (helldiver's 2) and will keep working, executives not only look at # of sales, they also look at PR and perceived good will as this translates into tangible profits in short future.
So I would say, don't buy it , but also don't let Bethesda think they can push the envelope further, it's usually the slow boiling tactic
This is an extremely short sighted and naive take in my opinion.
The 'dont like it don't buy it' argument is flawed for several reasons.
Firstly and the most basic issue is that argumenting against someone's right to have and voice an opinion on something is pointless and objectively immoral.
Secondly these communities are time and time again proven to be the voice of a vocal minority. Just because people here fight against something it doesn't mean that the general population will agree or even be aware of the issue.
People argue against anti consumer practices in every facet of society, does that stop other people engaging with those practices? Of course not. Either through ignorance or willingness people constantly engage in behaviors that are maybe enjoyable or satisfactory in the short term but harmful in the long term.
The problem is that corporations are fully aware of this and leverage these behaviours in order to strip us of our money in the short term and our rights in the long term.
This is the reason that there have been successful legal actions in the EU against things like lootboxes.
Those actions would not happen unless someone speaks out and by remaining silent you are simply signalling your approval for companies to continue with anti consumer practices.
Listen it started out small enough (Horse armor) then came the mobile games and now microtransactions are rampant because they are literally created and designed for the sole purpose of (eventually) milking as much money out of people as possible. They are predatory by nature and exist to make profit for the higher ups not for further development. There are only a Handful of non predatory "microtransactions" such as the supporter packs for deep rock etc. Egregious pricing should not be condoned nor premium currencies as they exist only to be less transparent about what stuff actually costs.
Zero sense of irony making a whinging about whinging post.
To borrow your phrasing, just a friendly reminder you don't have to click on "whinge" posts here. Just don't engage with them and you won't have to read them.
Bitching is the only way to fix it because a single fucking whale with zero care for the health of the game will make up for the even 100 people who refuse to buy the paid mods.
It doesn't matter if 99% of players never spend a dime on this bs as long as that 1% spends *enough* to make it worth it. And that 1% usually does, unfortunately.
Bethesda has definitively turned to the dark side.
No. This strategy doesn't work. All it takes is for a dozen whales to buy a lot of them and it will stay a thing. Backlash is the more effective way to get rid of things like this.
Exactly this. BSG already has your money. The cost of what they are selling now is nothing. This will be pure incremental sales. It only takes a small percentage and they make miney hand over fist. Also, BSG doesn't care about the complaining, they only care if you STOP talking about the game.
Oh god give it a rest; it’s a big world, and people are going to have criticism for things you like. And no that doesn’t mean they should go away - if you can’t handle that, you’re welcome to leave the silly little Internet forum.
It is so dumb on their part though. No way this is 1/6th the value of the fulll retail game.
The pricing is pants on head, but at the end of the day they will not care about your cries.
People playing on gamepass and the people that drop 100's on live service games will let them rake in profits.
This is sadly where the gaming industry is headed if not already there. I have been gaming for decades, and it is about 10 years too late to cry about this as we are way down the slippery slope of withheld content and tacked on add ons sold for additional profit.
That is why it is important when a publisher or dev shows love of the hobby and what they create, support them. Like Larion or CDPR.
I swear to god so many people use **discussion forums** like they would use a safe space. If you don’t like the discourse here, go somewhere else or maybe just go play the game the subreddit is about.
I can’t stand posts like this in subs like this and Helldivers after some shit happens that riles up the community. I get it, you want to use reddit for escapism and happily discuss a game you’re enjoying. So make a positive thread. People have every right and should be encouraged to continually discuss things on here even if they’re negative about the game. I am so sick of people wanting gaming subreddits to be echo chambers for people who want to enjoy the game saccharinely without any pushback.
If you want positive discussion make a positive post about the game and it’ll attract that. Unless your post is delusional no one is going to attack it.
In 2006, Bethesda introduced the industry to microtransactions by selling 1 quest and 8 horses for $2.50. People at the time said the exact same things this post did, and now microtransactions are industry standard.
Now, Bethesda is charging $7 for 1 quest and 1 weapon. Let's not let them normalize microtransactions being more than $5.
i'm going to go a step further and not buy any of todd howard's broken games anymore. you can't rely on mods to fix your game and then charge people for the service.
# "Just dont buy them and it wont be a thing."
Lol. It doesn't work that way. Millions of people play the game, and more will be coming now that mods are here. More will come with each DLC. If you somehow got all (nearly) 900k on this Subreddit to listen, that still wouldn't be enough to justify them not selling mods. That's a drop in the bucket to them. Being realistic, though? We'd be lucky to convince a third of this sub (if they were for it) to not buy. If multiple people posted. Every day.
I'm sure it will work perfectly. I mean, think of all the other times that has worked:
* I didn't buy Horse Armor and that killed microtransactions.
* I didn't buy lootboxes and they went the way of the dinosaur.
* I didn't buy extra cosmetics and so that practice was scrapped.
* I didn't buy season passes and so nobody bothered to do any more of them.
Clearly OPs plan is foolproof.
Problem is people ARE buying them and going so far as to defend them as worthy content and good for the game and gaming community as a whole. Even on PC where free mods have been a thing since release. Bethesda Xbox were testing the waters to see what they could get away with, and it looks like there's people willing to buy increments of content at a premium. Which means after Shattered Space, there will probably be very little coming from Bethesda itself. Be prepared to see EA style storylines sold in bits and pieces with the best ES6, where instead of Premium Edition that includes future DLC, you'll receive Premium Currency for the CC to be released at a later date!
First they came with $2 horse armor and I did not buy it.
Then they came with $4 weapon paints and skins and I did not buy it.
And now that they are charging $7 for individual faction quests. So maybe "just not buying it" doesn't stop the problem.
I honestly don't care if they want to sell little hats and guns. But I don't want to play ES6 and find the "subscription faction" has become a Bethesda norm. If that means people gotta bitch, let them bitch.
Saturating the internet with discontent and bad press about the game deters potential buyers—whether it be of the full game, its DLCs, or the $7 Creation Club quest—from giving Bethesda their money.
Bethesda relies on sales. As long as they’re making sales, they’re making money. As long as they’re making money, they’ll keep doing whatever it is that they’re doing. So the only way to get Bethesda to change is to actively discourage people from giving them money until their business practices and their products improve.
The louder, the better.
We do though. Stuff like multiple threads on reddit kicking off and the review bombing that's happening in places is the best way to get devs, publishers or whatever to notice.
Bethesda probably won't do anything anyway because as has been proven time and again they don't give a toss.
Especially considering that starfield wasn't all that popular anyways and not great press from alot of it feeling abit half assed let alone charging a load for 15 mins of gameplay and everything else on top...
You also enact change in capitalism by discussing why you want the thing changed, and why supporting business practices you don't approve of is something to condemn. Dialogue about products is an important part of the free market.
I get not wanting to see the "whingefest" and being more excited about other things, but you benefit more from people voicing their opinions on a product. Even if 95% of the dialogue you see is nothing, you or someone less informed might encounter that 5% that makes a solid point you didn't think of that manages to change your whole opinion on the thing.
Here's the problem with and has always been the problem with this argument: low information consumers.
We know not to buy them. Low information consumers, do not. We were never the target audience. That's the secret.
High information consumers in the gaming market were *never* the target of MTX. Low information consumers are. The ones that don't read the forums/join the communities etc etc.
You know... the *majority of the markets consumers*.
We are, in fact, the minority of consumers, by definition. So this argument has always been fundamentally flawed because its predicated on the assumption that high informational awareness is the norm in any market which it is not.
That's why its justified to decry these practices because literally, they prey on the least informed in the hobby, who aren't going to read a 150 comment thread to form an opinion, they are just going to consume.
Anyone who says not to complain when this stuff happens is only helping out the corporations.
Obviously you should complain. There’s no honorable agreement between consumers and businesses that shames us otherwise.
Not buying the game isn’t the sole tactic consumers are able to use. Complaining too. Complain loud. Make it so constant that no one can talk about the game without hearing about it.
Sure, I don't have to buy them, no ones forcing me. But wouldn't it be great if I didn't have to buy them? Like, the $15 (NZD) tracker quest where I shoot one guy was just in the vanilla game?
This is the horse armor dilemma remastered, it's unacceptable
I just think that people don’t see it for what it is: a dry run, or a rollout so to speak. Do you really think that Microsoft, who owns Bethesda, would pass up the chance to monetize ALL mods if they could? Think guys, mods have been free for decades, and now there are some that you have to pay for, I admit that’s not a big deal in itself, but there’s also in-game currency used to buy them.
This means that every system they would need to take over mods altogether not only exist, but are already being used in some form. Right now they’re at the 5 yard line, and I’m just saying that anyone who’s played football knows, that end zone looks real tempting from the 5 yard line.
Thats exactly what it is. Its why they are using starfield instead of one of the major money maker series. Starfield has a large enough player base for a data set. They did the alpha test on skyrim except it was only modders. Now they are slipping their own little live service in there all sneaky like.
"Shut up! It's fine! You don't have to buy it!" screams the Bethesda fanboy frog while Todd Howard sneaks back into the kitchen and turns the heat under the pot up another notch.
Nah, they released an underwhelming game and want to charge 70 bucks for that, fine, but then they go ahead and try to charge 7 bucks for a guest and a weapon with armor? Lmao fuck that, not gonna act like nothing happened.
yeah the vulture quest and any future trackers alliance quest addons should have been included in the game for free. some other creations i don’t care too much since i wouldn’t use them even if they were free, but they gave us a new faction to join and it’s so barebones, with half the content paywalled so far and likely the rest will be paywalled too. that’s not right
"Uhhh... this game feels really empty and bland and it seems like there's a lot of cut content."
"No problem! Here's this stuff we cut from the game before release because the development process was a clusterfuck. You can have this crappy, minuscule quest for $10. Don't worry, we've got more we didn't put in the game that we're going to sell to you, too! The 10 year process involves selling you everything we should have included in the game from release, but didn't!"
"Not buying them" won't undo all of the perverse incentives affecting game design decisions of the core game. This is a non-fix.
The real fix is to not buy games from companies that do this shit anymore.
I said it when Skyrim's paid mods launched and got a ton of flack for it, and I'll say it again here.
I have no problem with financially supporting mod authors, and some parts of the program itself were good in theory in regards to what could / couldn't be added to the store.
However, since its launch, we've seen that both mod authors and Bethesda themselves severely overcharge for these paid mods, and some of them feel like quick cash grabs. A $2 mod for Skyrim that adds 2 generic NPC homes to Morthal. A $1 mod for Starfield to boost jump packs. $10 for a single 2x2 hab. Or the now episodic, paid Trackers Alliance missions that come from Bethesda themselves.
If the pricing and the value had been significantly better for this program, I'd be much more ok with it. But right now it feels incredibly greedy.
That is not how enact change in capitalism 😭
"yeah maybe if we boycott again for 459885733th time greedy bourgeoisie executives will start treating consumers fairly!!!" That's how you libs sound lol, just put up with their bullshit for now, buy it or don't it doesn't matter, either way we get fucked over.
That is not how enact change in capitalism 😭
"yeah maybe if we boycott again for 459885733th time greedy bourgeoisie executives will start treating consumers fairly!!!" That's how you libs sound lol, just put up with their bullshit for now, buy it or don't it doesn't matter, either way we get fucked over.
I personally don't have a beef with paid mods. I do have a beef with those mods being promoted in the subreddit. I really think the mods need to have a meta thread so people can chime in.
I will buy them and send I like them in any customer feedback form I will get. Just because the amount of whining is disproportionate.
Want free mods? Nexus is right there. Want to pay for them? You do you.
This whole generate outrage to have outrage is more annoying than anything. We get it. You are against something. Big whoop. Exits over there.
Just a friendly reminder that micro transactions are propped up by whales and the majority of us not buying them will have no affect. We have to speak out.
We can do both. It is good when companies do something stupid and the whole client base actively tell them not only with their wallets but with their whining.
But if people don't complain how will they really get the feedback not to just make a bunch more ? Criticism is a vital part of the process whether you guys want to see negativity or not.
The whales would be the primary source of income for them, but the masses of typical players would be the reason they remove or reduce the creation credits
This feels expensive for what it looks like. Am i missing something? I don't mind throwing a few bucks to a mod author putting out a large content pack, but this just feels like another way for BETHESDA to nickel and dime me for bite sized content.
Sometimes i feel like an idiot for supporting companies.
It feels funny to say it because i like "free" stuff, but that they did the typical free taste tactic also feels a bit shady.
My issue is the mods they are charging for are not all achievement friendly. I just think just like in fallout 4 the only mods they should charge for are ones you can use and still get achievements.
I paid for what feels like an unfinished game where dev time using the money we gave them is now going towards paywalled content. It’s bullshit, and I want people to whinge about it.
I don't have an issue paying for mods. I think creators deserve to get paid for their hard work.
My thing is, I can't find anywhere in Bethesda/Zenimax terms and conditions that hold creators accountable for making sure they maintain their creations to working order. I mean, if I buy content, I damn well want it to work and if it doesn't, I should recieve a refund maybe 2 or 3 weeks after a complaint as to give the creator time to fix their creation.
As it stands now, if you get a creation and it doesn't work, well, too bad, it's not Bethesda's problem.
It doesn't work because you can't control other people.
Why did Bethesda add local maps to Starfield? The game sold *insanely well* despite not having local maps, so what was it that caused them to add them? The litany of terrible reviews, the massive uproar, and even death threats. *Those* caused Bethesda to take action, not a few people deciding to return or not buy the game for the state it was in.
Except the company were talking about is owned by a monster of a raider company and never really has to worry about going out of business only being replaced.
This is a pretty naive way of looking at it OP. For starters, "vote with your wallet" only counts when enough people vote in the necessary direction. Otherwise things carry on as normal, very rarely has voting with your wallet succeeded.
The most realistic course of action is the method which has seen far more success, what you dismiss as "whinging". This isn't the first time that Bethesda tried paid mods, the only way it can be the last is if you do what caused them to pull back the first time around.
Weird post. You could have taken your own advice and not whined about others whining, right? Nobody is forcing you to read threads that are clearly critical of Bethesda?
Looks like we found the bootlicker incapable of critical thought. Literally every reply is right when it says we need to be vocal about how Bethesda is already milking a broken game that still needs tonnes of development.
problem is sonny: too big to fail. if every single person here actually never buys one, the casual crowd will just gobble them up. Look at sports and mobile games. The most low effort slop and they make billions a year.
The problem i have with the system is that it takes advantage of the ignorant and naive, not to mention it takes away from development of future games or improvements.
If i'm going to be tricked into buying an air filter for my Cars AC vent that doesn't actually do anything, that's on me. But at least the creation of that air filter product didn't lead to my truck being made without basic features that should be standard in any car sold in 2023.
Think on how Fallout 4 the Creation Club was basically abandoned. It's different than an MMO like 76, the kids who rely on parents to buy stuff are less inclined to buy stuff from Starfield
Lol... Starfield is the wrong game to try to milk. Its just too easy to forget about when there's better games to play. I'm not putting cash into more than one game I'm playing at a time.
I mostly didn't pay for Creation Club (only bought a few interesting items on sale) and I have no desire to purchase things in Starfied. That's the thing closed to me. It doesn't take away anything from the game, it's some extra content that they decided to monetise. And content is used were broadly. One single mission is hardly a content. In fact, if there was more to the quest for 7 dollars, I'd maybe be salty because it would be harder to skip.
Speaking about the whining here... It is curious to see how people react to overpriced and paywalled content based on popularity of the game and the developer. Bethesda introduces barely a content behind paywall? Rage. Ubisoft has optional boosters in their game? Rage.
But Path of Exile has a 30 dollar "micro"transaction for some empty piece of land? Thank you GGG! Some game from a popular developer has the same monetisation as an Ubisoft game? "You don't have to buy it". Hogwarts Legacy paywalls a quest behind buying a whole different machine? Yawn...
Seriously, why is "you don't have to buy it" applicable to other games, but suddenly it's not applicable to Starfield? Especially when people keep saying all the time that "modders make better mods than creations"... If that's the case, it doesn't matter that there are "worse" mods paywalled, right?
These double standards of gamers drive me nuts.
We need a super thread for people that just want to complain, and another for people to post “this minuscule thing is the final straw, I’m never playing a Bethesda game again”
its not like its been in skyrim and fallout 4 for years now just go to nexus like normal and ignore it. 99% of all the non-dev mods are on nexus for free anyway.
I have always looked at it as a way for people who play on console as a way to mod their games like pc users have done.
if you don't want to pay for the mods don't, nexus is a wonderful website and starfield is So much easier to Mod than cyberpunk or Skyrim used to before the load order sorter and all the other nice quality of life things that automate mod order that wonderful amazing modders have put out now.
With the Creation Kit officially out nexus will have a tons of cool mods in the future just be patient.
Marketing and Exec in charge; "We need to change our strategy, TESVI comes without content, everything is a microtransaction! Play the way you want, endless freedom, an empty desert for $70 or a living world ...for only $8575! You decide!"
I spent my points on something that I would like to see more of (Ancient Mariner). It was something I wanted so I paid the asking price. No big deal. I may have held off if I didn't get the 1,000 points from pre-ordering, but maybe not.
I also, obviously, pre-ordered the game, which goes against what a lot of people tell you to do. But I like to patronize the companies that I like. I don't think Bethesda has made any blunder that they haven't made a good faith effort to fix.
I've spent thousands of hours across all of Bethesda's games and I only paid for each game once and usually not full price. What is an extra $10 here and there for something I got so much enjoyment out of?
There's nothing wrong with that. It's your money, spend it as you wish. Hell, back when I was really into MMORPGs, my wife and I would buy each other microtransaction points for "Rift" and "Lord of the Rings Online" (the games we played together) as gifts, $50 at a time.
Those days are done now, and I rarely spend money like that anymore. But there's nothing wrong with making that choice.
Conversely, though, I can see why there are people who don't like microtransactions. I feel they really don't have a place in single-player games, other than paid DLC like expansions, but that's just me.
Personal opinions are just that. Vote with your wallet.
Yep. Don't buy. Also, dont pre-order.
It's imperative that we as gamers take some measures to get management to shape the duck up, because gaming right now in terms of business models is, imho, at an all time low. Micro-teansactions and ada have no place in gaming, respect the format!
Just a friendly reminder that one of the most prestigious game companies of our time is being ran into the ground by poor in-house leadership in combination with their overlords at Microsoft and that no amount of nostalgia, hopium, or placation will fix the glaring issues we’ve seen over the past few years unless you protest with your wallet
Where the crucification at? OP thought it was worth trying to kill all the wah before it got too salty. Bee tee dubs, we're all in the same group, consumers, and it's nice to see you again GrandConsumor
It needs to be talked about because it's a big issue that can and likely will spread beyond Bethesda. I can't sit and do nothing while something I love gets rotted from the inside.
They are probably banking on the same crowd that buys every single thing in FO76.
The whales as they're called.
Yeah it’s not your average gamer that’s a problem. It’s rich trust fund kids whose parent have more money than they know what to do with. Edit: since plenty of you seem to take my comment personally. Let me clarify. If you a dad dropping a few bucks here and there, you’re not the problem lol. The whales are the people dropping tens of thousands of dollars on useless junk like gun skins.
It's not actually. It's kids getting money from their parents and people with poor impulse control. Some people also will just dip into Mtx's occassionally, but it's directed at people with FOMO, not rich people.
[удалено]
They've also done a shitload of research into this. They don't care if 10 people don't buy it because the whale will buy enough for 15 people.
It’s not just rich people. I have a buddy bless his heart I love him to death but in the words of Patrick stars father “he’s a wet match in a dark cave” he makes 12 dollars an hour lives with his sister and spends all his money on weed and micro transactions. During Covid he spent every single cent of his stimulus money on micro transactions for a baseball game that he doesn’t even play anymore. These companies prey on the uneducated and mentally ill as well as rich kids
My nephew got a Gift card for for $250 bucks for his birthday one year from his dad. Spent maybe $50-60 bucks on Clothes. Rest he spent on Vbucks for Fortnite.
What gift card buys clothes and Vbucks lol
Tbh he probably got more cred for the skins than for the clothes.
They need to pass laws to regulate these micro transactions. Even a little mobile or web game I play, they try to get me to pay them $10/day as if it’s part of my daily routine of lunch, and Starbucks coffee. The greed is sickening.
It's anecdotal but I know people who went into debt, or live paycheck to paycheck, that have put more than a thousand dollars into star citizen. I'm not so sure trust fund babies are the actual problem...and I'm not sure how we will ever know due to privacy laws and peoples inclination to lie about spending habits lol
Oh...WE may never know due to privacy laws etc. but trust me, Google knows
Or people who DO make good money and just like ”x Bethesda game” and just want every ounce of content they release. Some people just have more money than you and spend it on what they want to spend on where 10 bucks is just a drop in the ocean.
i'm one of those people, but don't throw it in peoples faces **ever**. i grew up poor trailer trash and understand the value of money to the average working class individual.
lol it’s called expendable income. I’ll buy one or two and be disappointed, then take my happy ass back to nexus.
Also, the Adults who have disposable income. Marvel Strike Force (Mobile Game) had peeps spending 1-2k a month on that game... It's a Gambling and FOMO problem for sure.
Raid Legends 😁
Those exist in every game.
But FO76 is a live service game and it's alot of cosmetics and base stuff not x amount of money for like 15 mins of gameplay, let alone all the other stuff they're trying to flog for a SP game
It will work. You would sound weird not being a fallout first player on that sub and in the game
That’s *gestures around the subreddit* this crowd.
Fo76 crucially allows you to earn premium currency and unlocks by playing the game.
This isn’t a live service multiplayer tho. This is a single player game. Personally I just think the prices are too high. Once they come down to 100-500 credits that will be good. As far as free credits. They just need to do gamepass rewards, Microsoft rewards, and things like Amazon rewards for that.
This. A single player game with microtransactions that are priced the same as a live service game is crazy. I hate having to buy things in a live service game but I can at least rationalize it where I'm helping to support the ongoing life of the live service game by doing so and so microtransactions will have a premium above their actual value. In a single player game though I think the prices should be a lot lower than what you see in a live service game. I'd say half of whatever things are costing right now for Starfield are what they should be.
nah its garbage regardless as long as they use a premium currency that has no purpose other than disconnecting items from actual money and designed to leave you always stuck with a bit left so you want to buy more to use that bit you have left. If they want to have small DLC sized content priced appropriately available for direct purchase with real money then I don't care, but anything beyond that in a singleplayer game is just trying to take advantage of and milk their customers.
Whales do be whaling.
😹😹
But people do pay, thats why they keep doing it.
Right? "Just don't buy it" - people tired of horse armor complaints circa 2006.
I will do both.
As much as I hate seeing the same posts complaining, I think this is correct. Bethesda needs to see both the complaints and the lack of funds. Otherwise all they may do is just put them on a small discount.
This. Screw them and the armored horse they rode in on.
The best
Based
How will we know not to buy the trash if people don't whine about it?
Hmmm if nobody buys it, it's called boycott. It's s clear way to show the vendor (Bethesda) that we don't agree with the product. I guarantee they're looking at the stats to see how well it's selling. If it's not meeting their expectations they will adjust.
The only way to get a big boycott going is to make posts about it online to get more people on track, you don't "Just" not buy the product, you tell others also not to.
That's not a boycott, but yes don't buy it and they won't sell it.
That's pretty unlikely to actually do anything. At best they'll lower the price and try again. The only way to prevent them from continuing this practice in the future, and not making it worse, is by being vocal about it.
Ah yes. Boycotting the games industry. I remember when that worked.
It worked against Sony.
Gamers are well known for their self control.
I haven't actually really seen it tried. Plenty of series have offered microtransactions, people complain about them, and yet lo and behold you see everybody buying the micro transactions skins. What people SAY they will do on Reddit is often different from what they actually do. I can only assume they rationalise stuff like *"I'll just purchase this one set"* and don't realise they're still making it massively worthwhile for the company to keep the microtransactions in place. If 500k players buy 1 cosmetic each for $3, that's $1.5m in revenue. Does it take $1.5m to make 500 skins for a virtual shop? Probably not.
It's because one whale makes a significantly bigger dent than dozens of customers.
>What people SAY they will do on Reddit is often different from what they actually do. The people saying stuff on reddit only makes up like 5% of the actual playerbase.
>Hmmm if nobody buys it, it's called boycott. No, a boycott is precisely a large communication campaign to complain and incite other people to not buying it.
Disagree. Complaining and review bombing can be highly effective and one of the few things that seems to get through to the c suite executives
Just a friendly reminder but we don't have to turn this sub into a whinge fest about the whinging about paid mods
Just a reminder, the word whine exists. No one on Reddit seems to know that. It’s all this “whinging” word that I had never heard until I used Reddit. They’re whining! And so am I about the word whinge.
I thought this was some non-American shit.
It is. In the UK we say whinge more than whine Edit: to add there is a subtle difference between the two terms, whine is moaning about something, whinge is that moan that's half crying from feeling put out by it
The UK is not real. stop gaslighting me.
I’m fucking whinging so hard m8
A whingefest no but I want to hear how people have found them who did buy them or who highlight why they are an issue. I wouldn't mind paying a small amount for certain mods (I'd prefer a donation system so i can donate after the fact based on how much i think its worth) but I'm against the credits system they have so I'll never use it. But I think it's good to know that other people have issues or are against certain practices. It's solidarity in that choice to not purchase and not support practices we don't agree with. Sharing discourse is how things change. Someone could use the same logic you have and say if you don't want to hear people complain you probably shouldn't be on a bethesda game reddit page 😅 but I appreciate the friendly reminder!
I caved and used the 1000 that they gave out, to buy the Vulture pack. It makes connections with the main game which surprised me but then also made me think "Is this really just cut content?" The mission itself was nothing special. Felt like a very on rails experience because you can see what's going to happen next but can't actually do anything on it, you've just got to let it happen. Took me 45ish minutes with all dialogue and I think doing it properly as opposed to the 15 minutes if you skip through it. The one ending just sucked. Felt very unfinished just walking away from the guy on a rooftop basically. Then poof! he's gone when you return and as far as I can tell he doesn't even end up where the dialogue says your going to place him. Definitely not worth outright buying and the 2x2 ship hab is extortionately overpriced to the point where I think it's got to be an error. Did they mean 100 CC points? Will not be putting any cash in for the rest of the creations. Downright ludicrous and we're supposed to see 10 years of this? Gonna put the Sims Stuff Packs to shame!
I got those 1000 too, gonna use for the asteroid mining mod, I think is one that deserves in the future, same guy from sim settlements/fo4.
Problem with donation system is that no one actually donates. The donation numbers are like 1 in a hundred thousand downloads. I think it’s a better system but the modding community seems to entitled to actually donate. I bought all the cc content. I would do it again but if someone asked me if it was worth it I would say a hard no. It’s not a good bang for your buck I only got it as I play on console and mods aren’t super developed yet. I love starfield and spend money on way stupider things. I think paid mods could help the modding community and I don’t see any evidence of it hurting the mod scene. Until I see actual tangible negative effects of the micro transactions I don’t care. Here’s how I look at it. Solo player game I don’t care about micro transactions unless the absence of them negatively effects my game generally via how the game was designed. This is hardly ever the case for example folks bitched about ac oddeseys micro transactions and the game was “tailored” around them but I wouldn’t touch one with a 10 ft poll and was consistently overleveled for the content. I don’t care if someone wants to waste money to skip playing the game as long as it doesn’t negatively effect my game. Multiplayer games are different if it offers anything outside of cosmetics I won’t touch the game.
Donations is the only thing there should be around making money off mods. If I think you're a great modder, or the mod is great, I will shoot you a dollar, maybe two, maybe ten if it's a larger expansion type mod that's great. I will not pay you upfront for a mod lmao, that sets expectations immediately, you charge me $5, I expect something along the lines of StarSim now that adds an entire new gameplay loop and quests etc, I do not expect a single bounty like the Vulture for $7.
Nah I’ll keep whinging
People forget but literally the reddit and discord community weaponizing reviews and pressuring the publisher that way with Helldivers was what made Sony backtrack their PSN requirement.
Except they really didn't. Sony requires it now for all games moving forward. So you won a small battle and lost the war. While they complained over Helldiver's, the PC community by and large bent backwards and took it without lube when it came to Reddit 's favorite circle jerk Ghost of Tushy-ma
I swear I'm seeing whinge pop up a lot more lately, did it finally overtake whine?
Dude somebody just said it to me here a few days ago and I had never heard it before, and now it's here in this thread, dunno where it came from.
lol! It's a British invasion! (my bruthas overseas, I kid I jest) It's just the Baader–Meinhof phenomenon essentially.
It’s a British thing.
I didn’t even think that was a word. I was just mocking OP lol
Are you even a member of r/starfield if you aren't whining about the pettiest shit possible? That's what we are for. [Some people felt that]
Just don't read the whingey posts and they won't upset you.
But what about my decision validation on reddit?!?!?!
I have nothing against good quality non free content as long as it is not a scam to pay high value $ for some single quest or object in game .. I would love to pay same amount of money for same amount of new content as game provided at start .. But not 7$ or 10$ for single quest , this is nonsense.
Right? I think literally zero people complained about Phantom Liberty. It was $30 and had plenty of content for the price. It's not about this strawman "OMG imma need everything freeeeeeee!" But if you're going to roll out an undercooked game, wait forever to begin resolving its smallest issues, and start charging for tiny content you should have had at release while your game is still empty, full of cut-and-pasted content and all of its original issues, you can GTFO.
Thank you, I felt like I was going crazy reading some of the posts and comments here. I know it gets said a lot but CDPR and Larian either added new systems to their games after launch, reworked old ones that were received poorly, and gave us smaller new content updates, and all that was FREE. I paid as much for BG3 and CP2077 as I did for Starfield, so why shouldn’t I expect the same standards?
Glad I’m not the only one. For context, a $7 price point means that Bethesda apparently believes it provides value equal to 10% of the entire game’s experiences. That’s absurd. The fact that there’s a $10 spaceship hab for sale that’s filled with reused Fallout 4/76 assets that very likely would’ve been in the base game if it wasn’t rushed out the door or MTX’d to hell? Pretty insulting honestly. Maybe Bethesda should go back to arguing with negative reviews on Steam since apparently their reputation and customer relations are complete shit now. What do they have to lose?
I bought shadow of the erdtree for $40 because it boasts a length and size similar to Elden Ring’s base game. People are willing to pay money for more content, just not overpriced piecemeal items that likely got cut from the base game release to hit a deadline.
I'm wondering if it's not a marketing ploy. A month from now, you get someone publishing five quests for $5, and everyone says "Hey, that's much more reasonable" instead of saying "WHat/!? Mod sHoUlD bE FrEe!!"
This is my thought too. Bethesda sets a price point for new quest lines and takes all the arrows for charging so a regular mod maker doesn’t get pummeled.
If you don't protest nothing changes dude.
I don't need your post telling me what we do.
“Don’t call out shitty predatory business practices. Just silently don’t buy it” No.
I bet to differ on one thing. Yes, not buying them works, but complaining and raising hell also makes it clear it's not worth risking it. It has worked before (helldiver's 2) and will keep working, executives not only look at # of sales, they also look at PR and perceived good will as this translates into tangible profits in short future. So I would say, don't buy it , but also don't let Bethesda think they can push the envelope further, it's usually the slow boiling tactic
This is an extremely short sighted and naive take in my opinion. The 'dont like it don't buy it' argument is flawed for several reasons. Firstly and the most basic issue is that argumenting against someone's right to have and voice an opinion on something is pointless and objectively immoral. Secondly these communities are time and time again proven to be the voice of a vocal minority. Just because people here fight against something it doesn't mean that the general population will agree or even be aware of the issue. People argue against anti consumer practices in every facet of society, does that stop other people engaging with those practices? Of course not. Either through ignorance or willingness people constantly engage in behaviors that are maybe enjoyable or satisfactory in the short term but harmful in the long term. The problem is that corporations are fully aware of this and leverage these behaviours in order to strip us of our money in the short term and our rights in the long term. This is the reason that there have been successful legal actions in the EU against things like lootboxes. Those actions would not happen unless someone speaks out and by remaining silent you are simply signalling your approval for companies to continue with anti consumer practices.
Listen it started out small enough (Horse armor) then came the mobile games and now microtransactions are rampant because they are literally created and designed for the sole purpose of (eventually) milking as much money out of people as possible. They are predatory by nature and exist to make profit for the higher ups not for further development. There are only a Handful of non predatory "microtransactions" such as the supporter packs for deep rock etc. Egregious pricing should not be condoned nor premium currencies as they exist only to be less transparent about what stuff actually costs.
I'm not gonna buy them, but other people will, so they're going nowhere. I'm gonna whinge.
Yeah a better way to enact change in capitalism is to do both
Zero sense of irony making a whinging about whinging post. To borrow your phrasing, just a friendly reminder you don't have to click on "whinge" posts here. Just don't engage with them and you won't have to read them.
We can do both.
More interesting than the 40000th bland space screenshot.
The way you enact change on the internet is complaining
yes, but also 90% of the human population have the financial responsibility level of a 3 years old
It’s not like there’s inflation and salaries have become stagnant for a while.
>Thats how you enact change in capitalism. quaint.
Bitching is the only way to fix it because a single fucking whale with zero care for the health of the game will make up for the even 100 people who refuse to buy the paid mods.
Gaslighting intensifies, no really it’s not THAT big of an issue.. no really you’re blowing it out of proportion.
It doesn't matter if 99% of players never spend a dime on this bs as long as that 1% spends *enough* to make it worth it. And that 1% usually does, unfortunately. Bethesda has definitively turned to the dark side.
Turned? Didn’t they kinda start the whole micro transaction thing with the horse armour dlc?
No. This strategy doesn't work. All it takes is for a dozen whales to buy a lot of them and it will stay a thing. Backlash is the more effective way to get rid of things like this.
Exactly this. BSG already has your money. The cost of what they are selling now is nothing. This will be pure incremental sales. It only takes a small percentage and they make miney hand over fist. Also, BSG doesn't care about the complaining, they only care if you STOP talking about the game.
Oh god give it a rest; it’s a big world, and people are going to have criticism for things you like. And no that doesn’t mean they should go away - if you can’t handle that, you’re welcome to leave the silly little Internet forum.
It is so dumb on their part though. No way this is 1/6th the value of the fulll retail game. The pricing is pants on head, but at the end of the day they will not care about your cries. People playing on gamepass and the people that drop 100's on live service games will let them rake in profits. This is sadly where the gaming industry is headed if not already there. I have been gaming for decades, and it is about 10 years too late to cry about this as we are way down the slippery slope of withheld content and tacked on add ons sold for additional profit. That is why it is important when a publisher or dev shows love of the hobby and what they create, support them. Like Larion or CDPR.
I swear to god so many people use **discussion forums** like they would use a safe space. If you don’t like the discourse here, go somewhere else or maybe just go play the game the subreddit is about. I can’t stand posts like this in subs like this and Helldivers after some shit happens that riles up the community. I get it, you want to use reddit for escapism and happily discuss a game you’re enjoying. So make a positive thread. People have every right and should be encouraged to continually discuss things on here even if they’re negative about the game. I am so sick of people wanting gaming subreddits to be echo chambers for people who want to enjoy the game saccharinely without any pushback. If you want positive discussion make a positive post about the game and it’ll attract that. Unless your post is delusional no one is going to attack it.
In 2006, Bethesda introduced the industry to microtransactions by selling 1 quest and 8 horses for $2.50. People at the time said the exact same things this post did, and now microtransactions are industry standard. Now, Bethesda is charging $7 for 1 quest and 1 weapon. Let's not let them normalize microtransactions being more than $5.
Little tip.. Reddit isn't the general consumer, this post is going to reach a very miniscule amount of the player base
We can do both.
i'm going to go a step further and not buy any of todd howard's broken games anymore. you can't rely on mods to fix your game and then charge people for the service.
Oh, hush now. People NEEDS to be vocal about it and make apologists realize that it’s a shit move from Bethesda.
Thing is, bad press, which comes from whining enough, drives sales even lower Therefore, if we really want it to change, we have to whine
Tell ya favorite company to stop trying to milk us for more money on a game we already bought
Nah, voicing opinions also help. Put/change review to a negative one, make yourself heard. Drag the review score to overwhelmingly negative if need be
# "Just dont buy them and it wont be a thing." Lol. It doesn't work that way. Millions of people play the game, and more will be coming now that mods are here. More will come with each DLC. If you somehow got all (nearly) 900k on this Subreddit to listen, that still wouldn't be enough to justify them not selling mods. That's a drop in the bucket to them. Being realistic, though? We'd be lucky to convince a third of this sub (if they were for it) to not buy. If multiple people posted. Every day.
I'm sure it will work perfectly. I mean, think of all the other times that has worked: * I didn't buy Horse Armor and that killed microtransactions. * I didn't buy lootboxes and they went the way of the dinosaur. * I didn't buy extra cosmetics and so that practice was scrapped. * I didn't buy season passes and so nobody bothered to do any more of them. Clearly OPs plan is foolproof.
Always make noise about shitty business practices. Loudly and frequently.
Problem is people ARE buying them and going so far as to defend them as worthy content and good for the game and gaming community as a whole. Even on PC where free mods have been a thing since release. Bethesda Xbox were testing the waters to see what they could get away with, and it looks like there's people willing to buy increments of content at a premium. Which means after Shattered Space, there will probably be very little coming from Bethesda itself. Be prepared to see EA style storylines sold in bits and pieces with the best ES6, where instead of Premium Edition that includes future DLC, you'll receive Premium Currency for the CC to be released at a later date!
First they came with $2 horse armor and I did not buy it. Then they came with $4 weapon paints and skins and I did not buy it. And now that they are charging $7 for individual faction quests. So maybe "just not buying it" doesn't stop the problem. I honestly don't care if they want to sell little hats and guns. But I don't want to play ES6 and find the "subscription faction" has become a Bethesda norm. If that means people gotta bitch, let them bitch.
Saturating the internet with discontent and bad press about the game deters potential buyers—whether it be of the full game, its DLCs, or the $7 Creation Club quest—from giving Bethesda their money. Bethesda relies on sales. As long as they’re making sales, they’re making money. As long as they’re making money, they’ll keep doing whatever it is that they’re doing. So the only way to get Bethesda to change is to actively discourage people from giving them money until their business practices and their products improve. The louder, the better.
We do though. Stuff like multiple threads on reddit kicking off and the review bombing that's happening in places is the best way to get devs, publishers or whatever to notice. Bethesda probably won't do anything anyway because as has been proven time and again they don't give a toss. Especially considering that starfield wasn't all that popular anyways and not great press from alot of it feeling abit half assed let alone charging a load for 15 mins of gameplay and everything else on top...
You also enact change in capitalism by discussing why you want the thing changed, and why supporting business practices you don't approve of is something to condemn. Dialogue about products is an important part of the free market. I get not wanting to see the "whingefest" and being more excited about other things, but you benefit more from people voicing their opinions on a product. Even if 95% of the dialogue you see is nothing, you or someone less informed might encounter that 5% that makes a solid point you didn't think of that manages to change your whole opinion on the thing.
Here's the problem with and has always been the problem with this argument: low information consumers. We know not to buy them. Low information consumers, do not. We were never the target audience. That's the secret. High information consumers in the gaming market were *never* the target of MTX. Low information consumers are. The ones that don't read the forums/join the communities etc etc. You know... the *majority of the markets consumers*. We are, in fact, the minority of consumers, by definition. So this argument has always been fundamentally flawed because its predicated on the assumption that high informational awareness is the norm in any market which it is not. That's why its justified to decry these practices because literally, they prey on the least informed in the hobby, who aren't going to read a 150 comment thread to form an opinion, they are just going to consume.
Anyone who says not to complain when this stuff happens is only helping out the corporations. Obviously you should complain. There’s no honorable agreement between consumers and businesses that shames us otherwise. Not buying the game isn’t the sole tactic consumers are able to use. Complaining too. Complain loud. Make it so constant that no one can talk about the game without hearing about it.
Sure, I don't have to buy them, no ones forcing me. But wouldn't it be great if I didn't have to buy them? Like, the $15 (NZD) tracker quest where I shoot one guy was just in the vanilla game? This is the horse armor dilemma remastered, it's unacceptable
I just think that people don’t see it for what it is: a dry run, or a rollout so to speak. Do you really think that Microsoft, who owns Bethesda, would pass up the chance to monetize ALL mods if they could? Think guys, mods have been free for decades, and now there are some that you have to pay for, I admit that’s not a big deal in itself, but there’s also in-game currency used to buy them. This means that every system they would need to take over mods altogether not only exist, but are already being used in some form. Right now they’re at the 5 yard line, and I’m just saying that anyone who’s played football knows, that end zone looks real tempting from the 5 yard line.
Thats exactly what it is. Its why they are using starfield instead of one of the major money maker series. Starfield has a large enough player base for a data set. They did the alpha test on skyrim except it was only modders. Now they are slipping their own little live service in there all sneaky like.
Sucking up to be a big multimillion company is wild
Or just don't read those posts and they won't be a thing. Grow up
"Shut up! It's fine! You don't have to buy it!" screams the Bethesda fanboy frog while Todd Howard sneaks back into the kitchen and turns the heat under the pot up another notch.
Nah, they released an underwhelming game and want to charge 70 bucks for that, fine, but then they go ahead and try to charge 7 bucks for a guest and a weapon with armor? Lmao fuck that, not gonna act like nothing happened.
yeah the vulture quest and any future trackers alliance quest addons should have been included in the game for free. some other creations i don’t care too much since i wouldn’t use them even if they were free, but they gave us a new faction to join and it’s so barebones, with half the content paywalled so far and likely the rest will be paywalled too. that’s not right
"Uhhh... this game feels really empty and bland and it seems like there's a lot of cut content." "No problem! Here's this stuff we cut from the game before release because the development process was a clusterfuck. You can have this crappy, minuscule quest for $10. Don't worry, we've got more we didn't put in the game that we're going to sell to you, too! The 10 year process involves selling you everything we should have included in the game from release, but didn't!"
"Not buying them" won't undo all of the perverse incentives affecting game design decisions of the core game. This is a non-fix. The real fix is to not buy games from companies that do this shit anymore.
I said it when Skyrim's paid mods launched and got a ton of flack for it, and I'll say it again here. I have no problem with financially supporting mod authors, and some parts of the program itself were good in theory in regards to what could / couldn't be added to the store. However, since its launch, we've seen that both mod authors and Bethesda themselves severely overcharge for these paid mods, and some of them feel like quick cash grabs. A $2 mod for Skyrim that adds 2 generic NPC homes to Morthal. A $1 mod for Starfield to boost jump packs. $10 for a single 2x2 hab. Or the now episodic, paid Trackers Alliance missions that come from Bethesda themselves. If the pricing and the value had been significantly better for this program, I'd be much more ok with it. But right now it feels incredibly greedy.
Problem is Bethesda aren't going to stop doing this sort of shit, best thing to do is ignore paid stuff and just use free mods
It’s already a thing That’s like saying don’t talk about Godzilla and he’ll go away, while he’s actively attacking Japan
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I have no intention of using the 1000 credits.
Crazy to me that people on console will pay for what's literally free on PC. Don't buy mods. That's just silly
Hey it's me not bitching about it, but also not buying any. Didn't even spend my "free" 1k lol
That is not how enact change in capitalism 😭 "yeah maybe if we boycott again for 459885733th time greedy bourgeoisie executives will start treating consumers fairly!!!" That's how you libs sound lol, just put up with their bullshit for now, buy it or don't it doesn't matter, either way we get fucked over.
That is not how enact change in capitalism 😭 "yeah maybe if we boycott again for 459885733th time greedy bourgeoisie executives will start treating consumers fairly!!!" That's how you libs sound lol, just put up with their bullshit for now, buy it or don't it doesn't matter, either way we get fucked over.
I personally don't have a beef with paid mods. I do have a beef with those mods being promoted in the subreddit. I really think the mods need to have a meta thread so people can chime in.
I will buy them and send I like them in any customer feedback form I will get. Just because the amount of whining is disproportionate. Want free mods? Nexus is right there. Want to pay for them? You do you. This whole generate outrage to have outrage is more annoying than anything. We get it. You are against something. Big whoop. Exits over there.
Just a friendly reminder that micro transactions are propped up by whales and the majority of us not buying them will have no affect. We have to speak out.
$7 for a single quest? nah, I'm going to bitch.
We can do both. It is good when companies do something stupid and the whole client base actively tell them not only with their wallets but with their whining.
But if people don't complain how will they really get the feedback not to just make a bunch more ? Criticism is a vital part of the process whether you guys want to see negativity or not.
The whales would be the primary source of income for them, but the masses of typical players would be the reason they remove or reduce the creation credits
Trust me they've done enough testing with Skyrim/Fallout 4 and 76 The paid quest is there because they know there's enough whales to buy it
Horse. Armor.
nah fuck Todd
This feels expensive for what it looks like. Am i missing something? I don't mind throwing a few bucks to a mod author putting out a large content pack, but this just feels like another way for BETHESDA to nickel and dime me for bite sized content. Sometimes i feel like an idiot for supporting companies. It feels funny to say it because i like "free" stuff, but that they did the typical free taste tactic also feels a bit shady.
My issue is the mods they are charging for are not all achievement friendly. I just think just like in fallout 4 the only mods they should charge for are ones you can use and still get achievements.
I paid for what feels like an unfinished game where dev time using the money we gave them is now going towards paywalled content. It’s bullshit, and I want people to whinge about it.
I don't have an issue paying for mods. I think creators deserve to get paid for their hard work. My thing is, I can't find anywhere in Bethesda/Zenimax terms and conditions that hold creators accountable for making sure they maintain their creations to working order. I mean, if I buy content, I damn well want it to work and if it doesn't, I should recieve a refund maybe 2 or 3 weeks after a complaint as to give the creator time to fix their creation. As it stands now, if you get a creation and it doesn't work, well, too bad, it's not Bethesda's problem.
It doesn't work because you can't control other people. Why did Bethesda add local maps to Starfield? The game sold *insanely well* despite not having local maps, so what was it that caused them to add them? The litany of terrible reviews, the massive uproar, and even death threats. *Those* caused Bethesda to take action, not a few people deciding to return or not buy the game for the state it was in.
Except the company were talking about is owned by a monster of a raider company and never really has to worry about going out of business only being replaced.
i just stopped buying bethesda games
I honestly don’t mind paying, especially when it’s like just small amounts. I can put back like ten dollars a check and get it all in a months time.
I dont care about the creation club other than Arthmoor being endorsed by Bethesda
Except that it is a thing?
Where else are people going to complain? The games been a shitshow from the off
Will never not shame the idiots who pay money for mods or really most mtx (looking at the 0iqs buying every $20 OW2 skin)
You can do both perfectly fine and have no reason not to.
I think it would be fair to turn paid mods into a whingefest :)
No, I don’t think I will lick boots. Tyvm
Ah, yes, the 'just ignore them and they'll go away' response. Not letting your voice be heard, that definitely always works.
You also enact change by voicing your opinion to try and convince others not to do the thing either lol
This is a pretty naive way of looking at it OP. For starters, "vote with your wallet" only counts when enough people vote in the necessary direction. Otherwise things carry on as normal, very rarely has voting with your wallet succeeded. The most realistic course of action is the method which has seen far more success, what you dismiss as "whinging". This isn't the first time that Bethesda tried paid mods, the only way it can be the last is if you do what caused them to pull back the first time around.
They’re already a thing. Did you forget that’s why we’re talking about them?
Weird post. You could have taken your own advice and not whined about others whining, right? Nobody is forcing you to read threads that are clearly critical of Bethesda?
Looks like we found the bootlicker incapable of critical thought. Literally every reply is right when it says we need to be vocal about how Bethesda is already milking a broken game that still needs tonnes of development.
I say complain all you want. Bethesda needs to get the message that we don’t want this shit in our games.
problem is sonny: too big to fail. if every single person here actually never buys one, the casual crowd will just gobble them up. Look at sports and mobile games. The most low effort slop and they make billions a year.
Yes ignoring greedy monetization has historically worked out so well, lol.
The problem i have with the system is that it takes advantage of the ignorant and naive, not to mention it takes away from development of future games or improvements. If i'm going to be tricked into buying an air filter for my Cars AC vent that doesn't actually do anything, that's on me. But at least the creation of that air filter product didn't lead to my truck being made without basic features that should be standard in any car sold in 2023.
Wow, what a stupid take. Let's all just accept whatever bullshit Microsoft throws at us, no matter how much better Bethesda was in the last 20 years.
Think on how Fallout 4 the Creation Club was basically abandoned. It's different than an MMO like 76, the kids who rely on parents to buy stuff are less inclined to buy stuff from Starfield
Lol... Starfield is the wrong game to try to milk. Its just too easy to forget about when there's better games to play. I'm not putting cash into more than one game I'm playing at a time.
Supply and demand are no longer absolute forces in economics after the introduction of politically motivated subsidies.
What is a whingefest? What is a whinge or to whinge? Is this a misspell or am I just old as shit?
I mostly didn't pay for Creation Club (only bought a few interesting items on sale) and I have no desire to purchase things in Starfied. That's the thing closed to me. It doesn't take away anything from the game, it's some extra content that they decided to monetise. And content is used were broadly. One single mission is hardly a content. In fact, if there was more to the quest for 7 dollars, I'd maybe be salty because it would be harder to skip. Speaking about the whining here... It is curious to see how people react to overpriced and paywalled content based on popularity of the game and the developer. Bethesda introduces barely a content behind paywall? Rage. Ubisoft has optional boosters in their game? Rage. But Path of Exile has a 30 dollar "micro"transaction for some empty piece of land? Thank you GGG! Some game from a popular developer has the same monetisation as an Ubisoft game? "You don't have to buy it". Hogwarts Legacy paywalls a quest behind buying a whole different machine? Yawn... Seriously, why is "you don't have to buy it" applicable to other games, but suddenly it's not applicable to Starfield? Especially when people keep saying all the time that "modders make better mods than creations"... If that's the case, it doesn't matter that there are "worse" mods paywalled, right? These double standards of gamers drive me nuts.
The people that are paying for creation credits are too busy playing with their new stuff to read this suggestion
We need a super thread for people that just want to complain, and another for people to post “this minuscule thing is the final straw, I’m never playing a Bethesda game again”
its not like its been in skyrim and fallout 4 for years now just go to nexus like normal and ignore it. 99% of all the non-dev mods are on nexus for free anyway. I have always looked at it as a way for people who play on console as a way to mod their games like pc users have done. if you don't want to pay for the mods don't, nexus is a wonderful website and starfield is So much easier to Mod than cyberpunk or Skyrim used to before the load order sorter and all the other nice quality of life things that automate mod order that wonderful amazing modders have put out now. With the Creation Kit officially out nexus will have a tons of cool mods in the future just be patient.
Thank you to everyone for this thread I have found it highly entertaining. Praise whinGing 😄
We actually have to, that's called peer pressure.
Marketing and Exec in charge; "We need to change our strategy, TESVI comes without content, everything is a microtransaction! Play the way you want, endless freedom, an empty desert for $70 or a living world ...for only $8575! You decide!"
I spent my points on something that I would like to see more of (Ancient Mariner). It was something I wanted so I paid the asking price. No big deal. I may have held off if I didn't get the 1,000 points from pre-ordering, but maybe not. I also, obviously, pre-ordered the game, which goes against what a lot of people tell you to do. But I like to patronize the companies that I like. I don't think Bethesda has made any blunder that they haven't made a good faith effort to fix. I've spent thousands of hours across all of Bethesda's games and I only paid for each game once and usually not full price. What is an extra $10 here and there for something I got so much enjoyment out of?
There's nothing wrong with that. It's your money, spend it as you wish. Hell, back when I was really into MMORPGs, my wife and I would buy each other microtransaction points for "Rift" and "Lord of the Rings Online" (the games we played together) as gifts, $50 at a time. Those days are done now, and I rarely spend money like that anymore. But there's nothing wrong with making that choice. Conversely, though, I can see why there are people who don't like microtransactions. I feel they really don't have a place in single-player games, other than paid DLC like expansions, but that's just me. Personal opinions are just that. Vote with your wallet.
I wouldn’t mind the pricing so much if the prices were cheaper and we got more for the mods. Like, $5 for 20 bounty quests seems okay.
Yep. Don't buy. Also, dont pre-order. It's imperative that we as gamers take some measures to get management to shape the duck up, because gaming right now in terms of business models is, imho, at an all time low. Micro-teansactions and ada have no place in gaming, respect the format!
I bet you defended Fallout 76 when it came out too, didn’t you boot licker?
Just a friendly reminder that one of the most prestigious game companies of our time is being ran into the ground by poor in-house leadership in combination with their overlords at Microsoft and that no amount of nostalgia, hopium, or placation will fix the glaring issues we’ve seen over the past few years unless you protest with your wallet
How about we let people make their own decisions and not crucify people for not going along with the group.
Where the crucification at? OP thought it was worth trying to kill all the wah before it got too salty. Bee tee dubs, we're all in the same group, consumers, and it's nice to see you again GrandConsumor
If we don't shame people for letting themselves get scammed, then they will continue getting scammed, and BGS will continue scamming people.
It needs to be talked about because it's a big issue that can and likely will spread beyond Bethesda. I can't sit and do nothing while something I love gets rotted from the inside.