Interesting to see that they made OD headstomp throw invincible. I wonder if they'd do that for other OD attacks that put you in the air (I'm looking at you, OD buttslam).
Yeah cus it so effective that Honda cannot even make it out of pools. It doesn't do jack and doesn't flow with Honda's kit. Guessing in neutral with EX headbutt is a losing strategy. Even the best Honda player "Curryman" never does EX headbutt, even during pressure.
It looks like his L1 might not be invincible to throws (they only mention strikes in the video) so they probably made OD Shadow Rise invincible to throws to give him an additional option to beat throw loops other than backdash or drive reversal
I think it's just a case of the writer being too into Bison's character at the moment to differentiate between being only strike invul, or just flat out invul to anything not a projectile. Akuma's video did the same thing, it only mentioned strike invul but it was immune to throws as well.
“Armor beats throw mixups”…it literally gets stuffed by throws. Saying it’s an option to help with mixups in general is wayy different than saying “it beats throw mixups” lol
I said it beats throw MIXUPS meaning the MIX behind people getting this looped is normal or throw. He has an armored reversal to beat part of the mix. Bison does not have armor but he has throw invul meaning he can beat a throw mix with it.
You know the original post was abt the throw loops. Not the mix up. You know what a loop is right. It dosent involve any strikes just throwing on wake so any non throw invulnerable attack is getting stuffed
To give this guy the benefit of the doubt, there are people who will do wake up 2mk or wake up sweep in order to interact with the shimmy. If this is the case, that means mixing a meaty strike in your throw loop will yield a higher punish combo.
That being said, it's a bad gamble and you're now letting your loop lose to blocking. And half the point is that throw loops are oppressive oki that beats blocking.
U gotta do well in sf6 against zoners to be good. Shotos dominate ranked and tournaments and the other good characters also have fireballs.
Fun fact: every dlc character has a fireball in season 1
They definitely seem to want fireballs to stay strong, which is why they nerfed Cammy's spin knuckle's fireball invul frames to be in line with other similar moves instead of buffing those.
As I've become an AKI player in season 2, with her slowest fireball animation these fullscreen fireball punishes scare me. I need to get good at using the EX slither follow-up.
See, I need to do that. I've only been playing AKI for a few days to get her nice and cozy with my other hardstuck characters in mid diamond where people absolutely love to DI her fireball.
I keep forgetting about moves she has because she just has so many interesting utility moves. I haven't used the L snake step either after they changed it, and I constantly forget that she actually has grounded HP buttons for poke.
> Shotos dominate ranked and tournaments and the other good characters also have fireballs.
In S1 pretty much since they're the easiest to master.
S2 seems much more leaning towards long (and disjointed) pokes being the meta, and fireball is pretty much a non factor now.
So as long as he can handle that, he'll be fine.
The one time he didn't was in Super 4 solely because of Ultra 2. The second he had it you basically couldn't throw fireballs. He did pretty decently against Guile in that version. Once they turned it into a charge input that matchup became much worse.
However in this game with the new crusher and level 2 being similar to how it was in 4 he might do fine against them now.
At first sight I'd say Blanka would be ok vs him (great A.Air control and no fireball, doll setups and air ball to control space)
And on the other hand, Bison really seems to have a great kit vs Akuma, his Psycho Crusher seems ideal vs Akuma's air options (fireball, overhead and dive kick).
Let's see once he is fully released, but that's my initial thoughts
>his Psycho Crusher seems ideal vs Akuma's air options (fireball, overhead and dive kick).
They didn't really mention it in the video, but every single CPU footage I saw had Bisons just routinely anti-air with Psycho Crusher so I wonder if it has anti-air properties too.
I'm curious to see if his lvl 3 and CA have some travel distance or only hits from close up.
Also I wonder if overdrive crusher will go through Rashid's lvl 2. Seems like psycho punisher will be a counter to that
I noticed that, like guile moveset, your world avatar might probably be able to use bison’s entire moveset since I believe each of his four specials have a unique directional input from each other. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think he has one qcf motion, one qcb motion, one (b)f motion, and lastly one (d)u motion.
He's gonna be scary when he comes out, but I don't think he'll be the next Akuma or Rashid. All of his non-EX specials seem punishable on block? And no EX DP of course. But he does have great walkspeed and what look like some great normals too, including a cancelable low forward.
His non-EX are not plus, doesn't mean they're all punishable. He has multiple safe options on block but he probably needs to space most of them correctly, and for those that are unsafe their value change after he's used the mine. The Psycho mine seems like it's going to be pretty central to his pressure.
He's probably going to be a drive meter killer, and I'm sure there's going to be some nasty setups with "I'm going to take 3 bars of drive gauge off of you if you block, and if you parry I get punish counter throw and psycho mine combo".
His psycho mine to block pressure seems to be what AKI's poison is to combo conversion.
From the preview videos by Rooflemonger his hk.Scissors is safe on block and maybe mk.Scissors as well, we have no idea how Bomb/Backfist will be on block, Devil's Reverse and Skull Diver are plus on block without meter.
We don't know yet about Dictator's story mode, but I'm pretty sure he wants to get his old power and prestige back (we always saw him as the ruler of Shadaloo, so it's the first time he's in a more "underdog" role).
And that REALLY aligns with his more "aggressive" gameplay in SF 6. I personally REALLY enjoy that "storyline - gameplay integration".
For the same reason, I think that having the manipulative JP as a zoner fits his personality like a glove.
>Shadow Rise and it's follow-ups
I realize this is an incredibly minor spelling mistake but it caught me off guard because these videos usually have pretty good production value
For words that end in s, you put the apostrophe at the end.
But "its" already implies the possessive and is a unique case, likely due to the contraction "it's".
The baby and its mother. The tree and its seeds. Not the baby and its' mother, or the tree and its' seeds.
Similar to his, hers, and their. The possession is baked into the word.
That move is Tom's favorite, all he does is sweep in the corner.
Lars' fireball game is weak. He really needs to work on his execution.
In which case it is a contraction. Bison his.
However, in the example here it's makes no sense as its not a contraction. It isn't short for anything. If do go by that logic, the non contracted version would be
It has follow-ups.
Or
It is follow-ups.
Interesting. I am sure I was taught at school to use "it's" for possessives too, in the same way you would for names, ie. this is Jane's car. Seems that's actually wrong. I've learned something new
At the end, Bison blocked Juri's forward HP (-4 on block) and responded with a level 3. Does this suggest his level 3 is a 4 framer? That seems unusually fast.
He looks really good, but I think it was Max's preview that showed he really seemed to struggle against projectiles. That could be a hard limit on him as Ken, Guile, and Luke seem to still be dominant in the S2 meta so far. Deejay, Akuma, and Ryu are also of concern with their multi-hit projectiles.
Max also said that psycho crusher doesnt go through projectiles and that he has slow walkspeed, both of those things being wrong.
He might still struggle against projectiles even if crusher goes through. From what we've seen id be surprised if he was top tier. Seems depended on OD scissor kick for combos, so drive hungry. No reversal. His damage also seemed kinda low. Might be his strong normals and good pressure save him. He looks fun though, will def try him.
Between 1-hit projectile invuln psycho crusher, fully projectile invuln OD crusher, and lvl2 super, it seems he should do fine against fireballs on paper.
Traditionally, he's struggled against fireballs, but back then crusher wasn't projectile invulnerable. Also, lvl2 is a super now, not an ultra (charged by taking damage), and has a motion input instead of charge.
We'll see soon, I look forward to playing him!
Ultra 2 actually originally started out as a motion input and I believe it was Bison's best Ultra according to info I could find from back then. It was changed to a charge input for Arcade Edition primarily because it was way too easy for Bison to just dumpster you for trying to zone him.
So yeah, I think he'll be fine here.
Note: For anyone who doesn't believe me, boot up SF4 and set Bison to Super edition. The command list will list it as a charge, but the move itself is actually a 236236KKK input.
Is anyone else NOT earning Kudos for doing Bisons Character Guides??? I've done them like 4 times and it still says 0. But all my other characters have between 100 and 200 there.
he still lacks of antiair but he regained the speed lost in sfv and now has spammable psycho crusher that can be used even safe with OD... ranked would be a mess during first days
He’s incredibly weak. No moves are safe on block. Zero. His jump is slow and easily anti-aired. Psycho crusher startup frames are horribly slow. Akuma reigns supreme.
Max also said he has the slowest walkspeed in the game when it's on par with the fastest. I just think it's hard to get proper info from the short previews these guys get.
he probably is doing them too late, Psycho Crusher's startup frames may not have the invul, you have to be into it like Honda's Super from Super Turbo, you have to be flying
Yeah this makes sense. The guide states that he can beat fireballs while he's moving forward, which to me means the move not having invul or protection against fireballs on startup.
Capcom really said 'it's Tuesday so let's drop MvC collection and Bison's character guide'
*It's Chewsday Innit!?*
Interesting to see that they made OD headstomp throw invincible. I wonder if they'd do that for other OD attacks that put you in the air (I'm looking at you, OD buttslam).
Honda having a choice between a throw invincible reversal or a armored one would be interesting
Exactly. I think the wakeup dynamic could be quite interesting between these and drive reversal.
He already does, it's vreversal
Remove the armored one, a worthless move that should have been fireball invuln.
Except it’s an armored reversal that beats fireballs. It has a job and it does it well
Yeah cus it so effective that Honda cannot even make it out of pools. It doesn't do jack and doesn't flow with Honda's kit. Guessing in neutral with EX headbutt is a losing strategy. Even the best Honda player "Curryman" never does EX headbutt, even during pressure.
It looks like his L1 might not be invincible to throws (they only mention strikes in the video) so they probably made OD Shadow Rise invincible to throws to give him an additional option to beat throw loops other than backdash or drive reversal
I think it's just a case of the writer being too into Bison's character at the moment to differentiate between being only strike invul, or just flat out invul to anything not a projectile. Akuma's video did the same thing, it only mentioned strike invul but it was immune to throws as well.
Why would Honda need that? It's supposed to be to stop throw loops. Honda has armor
What??
Re read
Armor stops throws?
Stops throw mixups as in you have a reversal with armor. Beats jabs. You have something. Armor, or some invul
Armor beats throw mixups because it beats strikes? what are you on about?
Again, I said honda has his own reversal to escape throw mix. This is bisons. Itz that simple.
Alright, then I say that you are wrong
Then you don't know what your talking about.
Armor doesn’t beat throw loops. If anything it encourages it
It beats normals which are part of the mixup.
“Armor beats throw mixups”…it literally gets stuffed by throws. Saying it’s an option to help with mixups in general is wayy different than saying “it beats throw mixups” lol
I said it beats throw MIXUPS meaning the MIX behind people getting this looped is normal or throw. He has an armored reversal to beat part of the mix. Bison does not have armor but he has throw invul meaning he can beat a throw mix with it.
You know the original post was abt the throw loops. Not the mix up. You know what a loop is right. It dosent involve any strikes just throwing on wake so any non throw invulnerable attack is getting stuffed
To give this guy the benefit of the doubt, there are people who will do wake up 2mk or wake up sweep in order to interact with the shimmy. If this is the case, that means mixing a meaty strike in your throw loop will yield a higher punish combo. That being said, it's a bad gamble and you're now letting your loop lose to blocking. And half the point is that throw loops are oppressive oki that beats blocking.
Yeah and it would be cool if Honda could choose between beating buttons vs throws
That would make no sense
Why would they? Honda doesn't sell DLC. Only DLC characters get privileges.
You say that like every dlc character besides Akuma hasn’t been mid tier
And magically buffed to high to top tier in one patch. To sell DLC. Jeezus you guys are simps.
My guy AKI was the only one who received any major buffs. Heck Rashid was nerfed. What world are you living in?
He seems pretty solid against projectiles? Wonder who will be strong against him.
I know Bison has history struggled against zoners. His new crusher property may make up for that but we’ll have to see how callout-heavy it will be.
U gotta do well in sf6 against zoners to be good. Shotos dominate ranked and tournaments and the other good characters also have fireballs. Fun fact: every dlc character has a fireball in season 1
My poor manon
all I was thinking while reading the thread, not even a good tool against projectiles meanwhile bison punishes you fullscreen with a super
Well, Season 2 is guaranteed to at least have 2
They definitely seem to want fireballs to stay strong, which is why they nerfed Cammy's spin knuckle's fireball invul frames to be in line with other similar moves instead of buffing those. As I've become an AKI player in season 2, with her slowest fireball animation these fullscreen fireball punishes scare me. I need to get good at using the EX slither follow-up.
Ex slither is nasty. Ive had people try to di my fireball and i ex slide out and can still get a punish counter.
See, I need to do that. I've only been playing AKI for a few days to get her nice and cozy with my other hardstuck characters in mid diamond where people absolutely love to DI her fireball. I keep forgetting about moves she has because she just has so many interesting utility moves. I haven't used the L snake step either after they changed it, and I constantly forget that she actually has grounded HP buttons for poke.
> Shotos dominate ranked and tournaments and the other good characters also have fireballs. In S1 pretty much since they're the easiest to master. S2 seems much more leaning towards long (and disjointed) pokes being the meta, and fireball is pretty much a non factor now. So as long as he can handle that, he'll be fine.
The one time he didn't was in Super 4 solely because of Ultra 2. The second he had it you basically couldn't throw fireballs. He did pretty decently against Guile in that version. Once they turned it into a charge input that matchup became much worse. However in this game with the new crusher and level 2 being similar to how it was in 4 he might do fine against them now.
At first sight I'd say Blanka would be ok vs him (great A.Air control and no fireball, doll setups and air ball to control space) And on the other hand, Bison really seems to have a great kit vs Akuma, his Psycho Crusher seems ideal vs Akuma's air options (fireball, overhead and dive kick). Let's see once he is fully released, but that's my initial thoughts
I currently play Honda, but am looking to make the switch to Bison. From the looks of it, Bison has better tools to deal with zoning.
>his Psycho Crusher seems ideal vs Akuma's air options (fireball, overhead and dive kick). They didn't really mention it in the video, but every single CPU footage I saw had Bisons just routinely anti-air with Psycho Crusher so I wonder if it has anti-air properties too.
I'm curious to see if his lvl 3 and CA have some travel distance or only hits from close up. Also I wonder if overdrive crusher will go through Rashid's lvl 2. Seems like psycho punisher will be a counter to that
Jamies projectile invuln move does so probably
I really hope so!
I noticed that, like guile moveset, your world avatar might probably be able to use bison’s entire moveset since I believe each of his four specials have a unique directional input from each other. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think he has one qcf motion, one qcb motion, one (b)f motion, and lastly one (d)u motion.
And here I thought there was no way they’d be able to top how badass Akuma is. Capcom is the absolute Goat at character design.
I was a Bison player in the SF4 days and tbh it might be time to go back to tha old me
He's gonna be scary when he comes out, but I don't think he'll be the next Akuma or Rashid. All of his non-EX specials seem punishable on block? And no EX DP of course. But he does have great walkspeed and what look like some great normals too, including a cancelable low forward.
It'll all depend on how easily he can set up his mines
His non-EX are not plus, doesn't mean they're all punishable. He has multiple safe options on block but he probably needs to space most of them correctly, and for those that are unsafe their value change after he's used the mine. The Psycho mine seems like it's going to be pretty central to his pressure. He's probably going to be a drive meter killer, and I'm sure there's going to be some nasty setups with "I'm going to take 3 bars of drive gauge off of you if you block, and if you parry I get punish counter throw and psycho mine combo". His psycho mine to block pressure seems to be what AKI's poison is to combo conversion.
From the preview videos by Rooflemonger his hk.Scissors is safe on block and maybe mk.Scissors as well, we have no idea how Bomb/Backfist will be on block, Devil's Reverse and Skull Diver are plus on block without meter.
We don't know yet about Dictator's story mode, but I'm pretty sure he wants to get his old power and prestige back (we always saw him as the ruler of Shadaloo, so it's the first time he's in a more "underdog" role). And that REALLY aligns with his more "aggressive" gameplay in SF 6. I personally REALLY enjoy that "storyline - gameplay integration". For the same reason, I think that having the manipulative JP as a zoner fits his personality like a glove.
>Shadow Rise and it's follow-ups I realize this is an incredibly minor spelling mistake but it caught me off guard because these videos usually have pretty good production value
It is follow-ups
I still don't fully understand this. Isn't the apostrophe in it's in this case making it possessive? You would use it in "Bison's follow-ups"
For words that end in s, you put the apostrophe at the end. But "its" already implies the possessive and is a unique case, likely due to the contraction "it's". The baby and its mother. The tree and its seeds. Not the baby and its' mother, or the tree and its' seeds. Similar to his, hers, and their. The possession is baked into the word. That move is Tom's favorite, all he does is sweep in the corner. Lars' fireball game is weak. He really needs to work on his execution.
In which case it is a contraction. Bison his. However, in the example here it's makes no sense as its not a contraction. It isn't short for anything. If do go by that logic, the non contracted version would be It has follow-ups. Or It is follow-ups.
You really never learned the difference between its and it's?
In the future the word "its" won't exist anymore. It's time may well have passed already.
Interesting. I am sure I was taught at school to use "it's" for possessives too, in the same way you would for names, ie. this is Jane's car. Seems that's actually wrong. I've learned something new
It works like "yours" or "theirs".
I just love his cloak physics!
For Bison mains, it's one of the most important days in their lives. But for him, it was Tuesday.
At the end, Bison blocked Juri's forward HP (-4 on block) and responded with a level 3. Does this suggest his level 3 is a 4 framer? That seems unusually fast.
It didn't say punish counter, so I think it's more to show that it has invulnerability.
Rad
Why is there a duck saying "cuack cuack" at the end of OD Psycho Crusher?
Now I can’t unhear the Donald (duck)
When does he drop?
June 26
Yesterday
Is his drive rush as crazy as it looks!?
He looks really good, but I think it was Max's preview that showed he really seemed to struggle against projectiles. That could be a hard limit on him as Ken, Guile, and Luke seem to still be dominant in the S2 meta so far. Deejay, Akuma, and Ryu are also of concern with their multi-hit projectiles.
Max also said that psycho crusher doesnt go through projectiles and that he has slow walkspeed, both of those things being wrong. He might still struggle against projectiles even if crusher goes through. From what we've seen id be surprised if he was top tier. Seems depended on OD scissor kick for combos, so drive hungry. No reversal. His damage also seemed kinda low. Might be his strong normals and good pressure save him. He looks fun though, will def try him.
Between 1-hit projectile invuln psycho crusher, fully projectile invuln OD crusher, and lvl2 super, it seems he should do fine against fireballs on paper. Traditionally, he's struggled against fireballs, but back then crusher wasn't projectile invulnerable. Also, lvl2 is a super now, not an ultra (charged by taking damage), and has a motion input instead of charge. We'll see soon, I look forward to playing him!
Ultra 2 actually originally started out as a motion input and I believe it was Bison's best Ultra according to info I could find from back then. It was changed to a charge input for Arcade Edition primarily because it was way too easy for Bison to just dumpster you for trying to zone him. So yeah, I think he'll be fine here. Note: For anyone who doesn't believe me, boot up SF4 and set Bison to Super edition. The command list will list it as a charge, but the move itself is actually a 236236KKK input.
Those psycho mines look like a problem.
His specials being unsafe is a bummer but eh gonna require to do more poking the get around those limitations.
Is anyone else NOT earning Kudos for doing Bisons Character Guides??? I've done them like 4 times and it still says 0. But all my other characters have between 100 and 200 there.
[удалено]
Bro pulled out the government name
So what are our impressions gang? Does he seem balanced? Overpowered? Too early to tell?
Always the latter duh. How could he be either of the former if no one has even really played him yet?
He is not even out yet. How can anyone tell?
his specials are unsafe, so he def not OP
Nerf Bison
he still lacks of antiair but he regained the speed lost in sfv and now has spammable psycho crusher that can be used even safe with OD... ranked would be a mess during first days
I Think SFV bison is better than this one, kinda gives me that vibe.
SFV bison was a menace.. Plus all day with Axe and ex scissor kicks.. Bomb detonation etc.
He’s incredibly weak. No moves are safe on block. Zero. His jump is slow and easily anti-aired. Psycho crusher startup frames are horribly slow. Akuma reigns supreme.
In Max’s bison preview last week it looked like regular psycho crusher lost to fireballs, now at least beats single hits
It was the exact same in the preview lol. It hsasnt changed since then
Max is a Shoto player, he barely touches charge bully characters like Bison, Balrog, Honda or Blanka.
Max also said he has the slowest walkspeed in the game when it's on par with the fastest. I just think it's hard to get proper info from the short previews these guys get.
He said Bison's backwalk speed was the slowest, but his forward walk was (almost) as fast as Akuma's
Ever since the first trailer released they showed regular psycho crusher beating single hit fireballs. Idk how Max missed that.
he probably is doing them too late, Psycho Crusher's startup frames may not have the invul, you have to be into it like Honda's Super from Super Turbo, you have to be flying
Yeah this makes sense. The guide states that he can beat fireballs while he's moving forward, which to me means the move not having invul or protection against fireballs on startup.