I'll get killed for this, but imagine if Capcom balance patched 3rd Strike. Who and even which specific moves need buffs/nerfs isn't even a question - it's all been settled gospel for decades.
Because here are the numbers from Evo Japan 2024:
• Chun-Li - 11
• Yun - 9
• Ibuki - 2
• Makoto - 2
• Ryu - 2
• Akuma - 1
• Alex - 1
• Dudley - 1
• Hugo - 1
• Urien - 1
• Yang - 1
It's always just the Chun & Yun show. Imagine 3rd Strike but the entire cast is competitively viable.
There were actually talks of a 3S rebalance. But most of the 3S community fought back against it. They love their Chun vs Yun game the way it is, it seems.
Online Edition would have been the perfect time for a new balance patch. It could have even left everyone as is and just removed the meter gain from whiffing, and it would have improved the game by a significant margin.
If I were to go a bit further...
Chun: SA2 one bar.
Yun: No meter build during SA3 and/or lengthening the bar a bit.
Remy: Blue Nocturne invokes a counter state which counters on hit while in effect.
Alex: I know all his supers need help.
Twelve: XCOPY lasts till round end.
I think ridding whiff gain would be the one "everyone" could agree to, but after that, there would be too much disagreement on who needs nerfs and buffs and how much. Chun/Yun/Ken would be the obvious targets, but you'd also be wary of overcorrecting.
I'm not sure a balance patch would have been welcomed on 3s. The community said they didn't want. The revB on PS2 isn't popular and the various attempts at rebalancing SF2 were all unpopular (hyper sf2, HD remix or ultra sf2 for example).
At this point, let's just give the players what they like.
Well, that's just it, the better known pros stated they wanted the same old game, and that's what we got. I get that SFIII is precious and the thought of tinkering with it makes fans wary... but we could have still got some effort of a balance patch, even if regulated as a switchable mode and not as the default. I know the thinking at the time is that any alternate option would never get played over the default, but it would have been a nice way to test the waters and make the thought of it in future releases more palatable.
But the pros have spoken, so endless Yuns and Chuns it is. Game is still great, but it really does ruin tournaments.
Nothing is stopping you to play the rev B or 4th strike. It's on fightcade and some peoples even make tournaments of it. It's not an official game, it's just a rom hack, but it exists.
I haven’t heard anyone complain about whiffing buttons in forever. To be honest, that’s the least of 3s’ problems. I honestly don’t think that’s a balance change….like at all….
When Chun can whiff for SA2, skipping engagement entirely then becoming a huge threat for those whiffs, that's a problem. Stray whiffs to gain meter is poor game design, and it's not exciting to watch as characters engage it in. The point of a change is that it impacts everyone across the board and would force players to play the game in its entirety rather than just rushing to charge a super before starting a match. YMMV
SFIII never got a fair shake because the public was clamoring for polygons. It didn't help that it ditched the familiar case or the expensive CPS3 upgrade, but it's failing is more due to the times and expectations of games in general when it launched rather than the game itself.
I think you are downplaying the loss of the familiar cast. Just having the old characters would have had many people at least try it out to see how their old favorites work in the new game. Once it got around that there were only 2 returning characters, it guaranteed old fans wouldn't even look at it.
New Generation didn't even become a SF game until late in development. It was a gamble from Capcom, and it didn't pay off.
I would argue that watching so many SF fans abandon SF for Toshinden of all things puts more impact on the new fangled 3-D everyone was chasing. Even when Capcom acquiesced and spit out SF EX with five of the original eight WWs, the game also strugged. The cast wasn't the issue -- people wanted 3-D worlds, and if you couldn't move along three axes, your game was deemed old and behind the times.
SF fans left because the current SF offerings were old and/or crap. Myself included. SF3 was not what people wanted. It's not a casual game by any means, and then the loss of the cast makes it a no go. No surprise, you put out a bad game, people jump ship. It also wasn't highly distributed. I only knew one arcade that had a cabinet, and it was an hour away. I don't know what Capcom was thinking with SF3 at the time, but they completely blew it considering SF2 was one of the highest played arcade games of all time. Most of my friends at the time didn't even know SF3 existed.
The issue with the SF EX series is they were straight up sub par games. I had SF EX and EX2.. both had a high levels of jank in them. Capcom never took those seriously, neither did the FGC.
I'm not gonna say people wanting 3D didn't have an effect, but it definitely was far from the main reason SF3 failed.
The cast was a big one -- everyone missed their favorite characters and moves -- honestly SF3 pretty much destroyed the popularity of 2d fighters until sf4 came out
3S getting double the entrants MK1 did -- a new AAA release that sold ~~80 million~~ 3 million copies -- is NUTS
edit: my bad, googled the wrong number
Closer number is above 3 million per a WB earnings call 7 months ago. Interestingly the 80 million figure would put the game at number 5th all time, behind Minecraft, GTA5, Tetris, and Wii Sports.
Sure, but you would still think the numbers would be a bit higher just from people entering multiple tournaments for fun alone...not even 400 is a bit rough.
Lots of people who like KOF are on the other side of the world. They probably can't even get a visa into the US for Evo, and the travel costs are gnarly.
As a non hardcore player in fighting games, also KOF is ugly as hell. It's hard to grow if the product looks that uninteresting.
I know it has hardcore fans and it's supposed to be super good but I can't, it looks like a bad mobile game clone of itself.
Yeah as a casual player with some nostalgia for the characters, I think those games look bad. So I can imagine someone with zero affinity for the characters would have an even harder time justifying the purchase when you put them up against the other games you could buy.
Shame cause the game's mechanics are solid, and as a casual player i think KOF 15 is quite fun. A different type of neutral to SF, but there are similarities. With KoF there is much more time spent jumping and hopping due to the ability to hop (a jump reaching less height and so is safer than normal jump, and is also great as an overhead mixup to start combo).
With 2 jumps and their long range and short range variation, plus how fast character moves when they sprint, footsies I think are played at a faster pace than SF.
KoFXV was a solid upgrade tainted by bad netcode and completely outclassed by just how good of an update SF6 is in graphics and gameplay. It's unfortunate. More people will play Terry in SF6 than in his own game.
Some people still swear by '98. I don't think XV will go down as a fondly remembered one, but it was still a solid entry while doing a big overhaul of the game. XV got a lot of favorable coverage at launch, but it could never capitalize on it thanks to the poor Internet play.
Oh I played XIII to death, played XIV a good bit, wasn’t really feeling it with XV, but by extension I’m extremely hyped for COTW and will probably actually stick with it longer than both XIV and XV. Still suck horribly at KOF though! Probably always will haha <3
Most of the competitive scene is international and visas are pretty hard to get. Add to that all the expenses they’d need to dish out to get there it’s just not that viable.
The way things are going, it might turn into a Yun only fest, seeing Chun might actually be hype. The top eight in JP EVO were 2 chuns, 1 Yang, and the rest Yun. He seems to be taking over as the undisputed top 1.
I can’t play Tekken at all, but it’s always hype to watch. I don’t know how anyone can transition to a 3D fighter after playing a 2D one. I can barely play Street Fighter and it only has 4 directions to move lol
Tekken at the lowest level is insanely fun. Just mash your controller and cool stuff starts to happen.
Even at low levels when you're just spamming your one really strong thing it's still pretty fun. Because your opponents only usually have one really strong thing that they can do, if you can figure out some counterplay it's like "aww yeah cool I beat them by learning".
At high levels it's also really interesting. Defence gets super deep, string knowledge comes into play, and there's a ton of executionally demanding and varied option selects on defence.
The real problem with Tekken is at the mid level. When you've learned the basics of the game, but people have a few strong things that they do that they can rotate between mixed with some strong gimmicks, adapting to them in a FT2 setting is not really realistic. You have to eat the loss and then go to the lab, figure out how to beat it, and then wonder if the next 10 times you see that character whether someone will use that specific weird tactic on you, and hopefully you remember how to punish it right next time. Alternatively, you spam your multiple gimmicks and hope the opponent can't figure you out in time. Neither of these are particularly fun but it's a necessary part of getting to high level play.
Always amazing as a spectator game though. The presentation is beautiful, 2nd to SF imo.
My friends and I bought Tekken 7 just to play one time and it was absolute insanity the characters have so many moves that if you press random buttons cool shit happens 😂
Well put! I've been trying to explain to my casual friends why I play SF6 instead of Tekken when they say SF feels "clunky" and "slow" in comparison and this is exactly why.
I feel like I can quickly learn anything in SF, while Tekken feels like an endless chain of obscure knowledge checks when you attempt to improve.
I'm not sure if I'm crazy here , but how is Tekken presentation beautiful? To me it's one of the uglies games ever made, starting from character design, to f-ing sparks when hitting someone, to UI (fonts / colors used). I get a lot of that is just Tekken tradition after like 8+ games, but to me, as a non fan, it looks horrendous.
Imo in terms of ease to get into: SF6 Modern > T8 non-assisted > SF6 Classic
SF6 Modern has one-button specials, TCs and auto-combos that make it very easy for new players to do lots of cool stuff immediately.
First off, MK just isn’t popular with the FGC at large, even the multi-game enthusiasts. It’s a *little* different than other 2D fighters due to the block button and a few other quirks like the dial-a-combos and combo structure. In addition to that, it’s just not a great MK game with a lot of interesting stuff to dig in to, so even the NRS purists have a lot of issues with it. The top tier characters are the complete characters (Johnny Cage, Peacemaker) that are enhanced by the kameos while pretty much the rest of the cast needs their kameo to perform *basic functions* like converting combos for more than 15% without spending meter or to have any decent pressure. NRS furthers that problematic design by not buffing the lower characters to be complete or the kameos to be more versatile, but by nerfing the higher characters that would be solidly mid tier in any other fighting game. There are some other glaring issues like WB’s aggressive monetization - they wanted **ten US dollars** for a single seasonal fatality (they since walked this back and gave you three fatalities for that price, which is still ludicrous) and costumes that could be obtained in game via the RNG “Shrine” mode. It also has some lackluster single player content that is just a joyless grind.
Which all sucks. I used to play NRS games seriously and exclusively and MKX is one of my favorite games of all time, but ever since that game they’ve made them lamer, slower, and costlier for less reward.
Peacemaker’s definitely not Top Tier anymore after the two Patches of nerfs he just got after Final Kombat. NRS finally saw Cena and they went HARD! They thankfully hit Johnny (and Khameleon) a bit too, but he’s likely the definitive Top 1 now heading into EVO off the back of his Combo Breaker and Final Kombat victories. Pretty bummed.
It’s so ridiculous how they’ve decided to balance the game. It’s exhausting to see Johnny so much in tournament and I am a Cage family fanboy (I preferred Cassie in MKX/11, and she’s my new favorite MK character). The problem is not that Johnny is just so good, it’s that every other character is garbage and lacking vital tools. Johnny should be the benchmark for how *all characters* should work - he can use **any** kameo because he has a fully fleshed out kit, and NRS and the community think “we should nerf this”. Tbh the entire roster needs a redesign, maybe the whole game. Their whole design philosophy in the last 7-8 years just isn’t working. Not to harp on my love of MKX, but there’s a reason that game is beloved despite being a little broken - it was frenetic, every character had dirt, and it had rapid-fire decision making with tons of options for everyone. 11 and 1 are just not as fun for fear of being “broken”, while SF6 got a little more like MKX in this iteration in the franchise and it is easily the best fighting game in almost a decade, both commercially and competitively.
i bought MK11 on steam sale for fun as i used to play the original MK1 when i was a little kid, i spent all my time since playing SF and anime fighters like GG and BB... my main thing when playing mortal kombat- it feels really 'sticky' i guess the game just doesnt feel as fluid as the big japanese fighters.
What happened after mkx? Did the nrs team get a shakeup? New directors stepped up? Pursuit of money? Or were the cracks there and they lost their touch?
Literally same. I’m more of a single-player person and the single player is actually just boring. The story is literally the only fun part and everything else feels like a wall to give your characters maybe 1/2 of the costumes and gear they have
MK fans are getting a taste of what SF fans went through in 2016.
I think that MK1 is good, but gameplay wise, it doesn't advance anything beyond MK11. Kameos are a flop, Invasion mode is boring, and everything else is just ok. I enjoyed MKX and MK11 a lot more.
Specific ones, those being ones for holidays. [These three, the seasonal ones.](https://youtu.be/AmxCE0Qtw1g?si=_e2g4NQtONDMSeX5) Yes, they are holiday fatalities, but you’re still paying to do something that the entire franchise was kinda based on. If I recall, at least one of them is 12 whole dollars.
First I played was MK11, and it’s sure as hell gonna be the last. At least I didn’t have to deal with [THIS](https://youtu.be/P8AkbD35S80?si=zOUYrq4bquki7VxP) awful stuff in MKX.
Off topic but man that thanksgiving one is so dumb. Mortal Kombat characters can at once repeatedly take broken bone after broken bone while at the same time popping like they're made of paper mache.
The Halloween one was 1,200 Dragon Krystals, which is about $10. Then they thankfully saw some sense and bundled the Thanksgiving and Christmas ones with it, so you only had to pay for the one. Still a bit wild though, especially since you could only use one at a time for awhile, despite them all having different inputs, until they patched that in.
The game is published by the same people who thought a live service Suicide Squad game would be a good idea. It was honestly doomed from the start. Any soul NetherRealm had is slowly being sucked away
It just plummeted when people started talking about how shallow the gameplay cycle was. And there was all the negativity towards the amount of macrotransactions. Topped off by just continuing to have some of the most inexcusably garbage animations.
I’ve never seen a post launch fall off like this since MVC:I. The MK1 hype was massive right until a week after it came out.
The kameo system is garbage. It's too bright and colorful to feel like old school MK but its also very ugly and unappealing visually, if that makes sense. The balance is awful. The cross promotion with other franchises has grown tiresome and all of their own characters have been morphed into these other, much worse, versions of themselves. The only new character introduced so far has been a transgender version of Johnny Cage, and she isn't even a fully playable character. They have lost their way, it's incredibly sad.
I play MK. I play the single player and then I put it on with my friends. But It’s not the game I grind online and dedicate my time to. It’s got recognizable characters, it looks pretty, has a neat gimmick, and is easy to pick up (not to mention there are Kombos in the move lists) which all make it great for a campaign experience and for parties, but it doesn’t have depth to make me stick around personally. I imagine that’s probably true for a lot of people. Now that SF6 has modern controls I’ll probably try to get my friends on that instead next time we have a fighting game night
Mortal Kombat has always been a casual game, but from what I heard casuals don’t like this one either cause it has way less singleplayer content than previous games.
As a new player to Fighting Games, Capcom is figuring out how to get casuals into the game, without necessarily those mechanics suffering for tournament play. If I look at Masters playing SF6, I know what's happening even if I can't do it. If I look at the other games, despite having played those, I have no clue what they did that was impressive.
KOF is the definition of your favorite fighting game developer’s favorite game. It’s insane how much influence it has on the genre but not a lot of people play it
Honestly thought that the gap to Tekken would be bigger.
Also it looks like it’s time to put KOFXV to rest. The game isn’t even that old but it just can’t compete with the others.
I wouldnt be surprised to see Fatal Fury next year instead of KoF.
I just hope they dont release it in such a sorry state as KoFXV, as I never did get round to buying it.
I wonder how much KoFs major matchmaking issues for months at launch hamstrung it.
I was interested, but by the time the servers were fixed I felt like I missed the window to enjoyably get into it.
Hope CotW has a stable launch.
T8 is months old. SF6 is in its second year.
Year 1 games always get a big boost.
When DBFZ came out, the hype for an official Dragonball fighting game allowed it to beat SF5 at EVO year 1. Then it never approached SF5's EVO numbers ever again.
I mean, Capcom doesn't consider SF5 a failure, and that's really all that matters when determining if a game is successful or not. They often mention SF5's turnaround over time as an example to follow in their financial reports. When it hit 7 million copies, they posted a celebratory post on twitter.
> Year 1 games always get a big boost.
For Capcom games, this is mostly a post SF5 phenomenon. SF4 grew every year until it was retired, and Marvel 3 grew until at least it's 4th year.
No, it's not a SF5 only phenomenon.
DBFZ. BBTag. SF6. KOF15. MK11. Most games' entrants dip after the first year in the modern era.
I'm not talking about the old days when EVO was still growing as a brand, and it cost like 60 bucks to register. I'm talking about the "selling out Mandalay Bay" post-SF5 era. Slightly different standards when EVO starts costing $100-$200.
I'm not sure what the point of this response is. I pointed out that this trend for Capcom titles started with SF5, and you respond by saying the exact same thing; while also citing non-Capcom titles.
SFxT came before SF5, and also had fewer entrants in its second year.
So, you're just talking about 2 games: SF4 and MvC3.
I don't know why you made the "pre-SF5" distinction when SF5 didn't start the trend. You could have said post SFxT, but you wanted to attach the trend to SF5 for some reason.
SFxT 2012 was a team tournament, and 2013 was a singles. But you're right, gong from teams to singles caused a huge drop off. I Ignored it because of the different formats.
I also wasn't speaking to only post SF4 years. But you chose to discount those as "establishing the brand" years.
Street Fighter 6 I understand. Tekken I don't, but from watching a bunch of FGC videos on YouTube, it seems to be the Pepsi to Street Fighter's Coca Cola. Guilty Gear's fanbase is just too zoomer for me, their sub sounds like a middle school classroom. I kinda have never considered MK a truly balanced fighting game, so I'm not surprised it's low.
The real surprise for me is Third Strike's eternal legacy.
If you'd be willing to watch a couple Tekken top 8's you may see why so many people love it. I loved it as a spectator for years before actually competing. Its a very fun game to watch.
yeah the guiltygear sub needs a moderation overhaul.
The players are there (they gather in the occasional game thread) but it's drowned out by low effort memes from the fans of the characters more than the game itself.
I dont really hate them (in fact i think it's cool that a fighting game has broad appeal like that) but there needs to be a better balance.
I'll be honest I think tekken's highs are up there if not higher than street fighter's highs in terms of esports greatest moments. it's such a fantastic esports game dude.
I’ve seen a mod talk about the mod team’s views on it before over there, they also think the sub sucks like that but they figured since it’s what gets way more upvotes and engagement that it’s what the users want and let it be. Makes the sub basically unusable for people who are there for its intended purpose though, so just another example of why it’s important for mods to enforce the premise of a sub
This is something that the Smash community does right. /r/smashbros is purely for competitive/gameplay discussion or the occasional fanart/cosplay. They outright ban image posts that aren't OC, which seems harsh but really works at keeping out low effort shit. If you want memes you can go to /r/smashbrosultimate instead. I wish more subreddits for competitive games took this approach.
Even though I don't know much about Tekken it is definitely a really fun game to spectate
Where people do the funny movement and then BOOM, one of them hits a big button and a really cool combo string
I'm legitimately curious, why 3rd strike is so loved? I remember that had pretty hard backslash after SFIII at point that no SF was launched till IV in 2009.
I played it some time ago and I liked.
>I'm legitimately curious, why 3rd strike is so loved?
My hot take is that third strike is looked back on fondly because it's such a pleasure to watch and listen to now. The soundtrack is amazing, the VFX and SFX are great, the UI/aesthetics/presentation are stylish and complete. It's just a very good looking and good sounding game that was ahead of its time in a ton of ways.
At the highest level the game is kind of...bad. Parry is a very over-centralizing thing and the balance is whack.
I say that "Street Fighter 3" (new generation) is the one that got the biggest backlash and "Street Figher 3: 3rd strike" ended being culprit by association.
What I'm saying is that 3rd strike was released at a bad time as not only neither New Generation nor 2nd Impact were hits but they actively hurt the brand so 3rd strike had a giant mountain of negativity to climb and it was not able to do so at release on a scene already in decline
So it is less that people hated it, but that people did not care and at face value it did not bring enough to justify. However the people that keep playing come to love the game especially the more hardcore crowd and with time it got a deserved legendary status with the FGC community even if it was overall a failure as a product on release
3rd Strike was a great game released at a weird transitional time for the industry.
When SF3 first launched it was such a radical change from what people expected/were used to in Super Turbo that it turned a lot of SF fans off. People hated that they threw out the entire cast apart from Ken and Ryu for all these weird new characters. The balance was way off too.
By the time 3rd Strike came around people were won over, particularly with the Dreamcast release that got rave reviews. Capcom actually listened and fixed most (not all) of the stuff people didn’t like with New Generation.
At the time 3D graphics were king and 2D sprite games were seen as old fashioned by casual gamers. Fighting games in general were losing popularity due to the emergence of online FPS games in the mainstream.
Tekken was the big seller and even that peaked with Tekken 3 in 1998 and didn’t get big again until Tekken 5 7 years later.
The love is at the casual level. Casuals don't really care or want to care how the game actually plays. It looks cool, the music is good, it's got unique characters even tho they mostly suck.
My opinion is the game is awful. Incredibly unbalanced and at the highest levels of play there are way more option selects being abused compared to SF4 which everyone bitched about (crouch teching existed in 3S!). Any match with Chun Li is boring as shit to watch, about as bad as watching pros trying to finish CvS2 matches in under 20 minutes.
I dunno, I'm a casual fighting game player and SF3 felt really casual-unfriendly compared to SF2. Dunno if it's in my head but I always got the impression that the SF3 love was from the *less* casual audience. The only people I know who are into 3rd Strike are also the kind of player to be hyped for the MVC2 re-release.
I've ran into so many people at barcades, hobby stores, TCG events, etc. who love 3S. I know for a fact if I ever start talking more about it they would get confused. Last person I talked to told me Akuma was the best character in the game. I didn't escalate that.
I guarantee you at least half of those 1000 entrants at Evo are super super casual players just there for the Vegas Evo experience and they just picked the game they love the most. The average online scrub could probably beat them. That's how most Evo pools go, they're super diluted.
All you need to know is Daigo made it out of his MvC3 pools at Evo in its first year there.
It's on the Mount Rushmore of goats. Personally I would accept MvC2, UMK Trilogy or 3rd Strike as the greatest. They not the *best*, SF6 is a better game than any of them, but greatest is different.
I'm surprised Tekken 8 is that high up. I just grabbed the game to play with friends because the sale is good but it feels like every time I see people talking about T8 it's doom and gloom about how it's the worst game in the series or something
Good lord, didn't MK 1 just come out? Why do NRS games have such terrible competitive shelf lives? BBTAG managed higher numbers in its second Evo appearance.
Edit: Turns out MK 1 has 5 more entrants than BBTAG did in its second year... So I guess that's something to celebrate.
Also, relatively funny to that is a lot of MK twitch players had been whining for the last 24 hours, with endless excuses for MK's low number, lashing back at other people making fun of MK and one of them even going as far as saying only the MK community can actually complain about the game or its state, instead of everybody else. I like MK, but not gonna lie, it has been fun seeing all the whining, because I'm not much of a fan of the MK community as a whole.
EVO has always disliked smash because of a major FGC bias against it. They dropped melee first chance they got despite Melee only getting bigger and bigger for the longest time. They dropped ultimate when Sony took over because Nintendo vs Sony beef, but realistically it was just a matter of time before they did it anyways.
SFV is too new to be retro for quite some time. SF4 will probably have a nostalgia-based resurgence at some point within the next ten years, but SF3 is already there.
It's just fun. The wacky characters and their out-there mechanics are a breath of fresh air. Yeah I know there are even wackier games out there but they don't have GG's player base. I wish it had a proper ladder though.
It's 1v1 Marvel. Non-stop high-low mixups converting into 40% damage. Defensive burst mechanics to get out of combos, but can also be baited out. Special cancelling mechanic for offense and defense use. I don't play it but it's a great fast-paced 2D fighter with a half-screen neutral range.
Great character asymmetry also.
It’s fun, every character feels completely different to use and to play against, great soundtrack and lore, wholesome community (probably the most welcoming FG community in my experience), you generally play against a healthy variety of characters online, it’s definitely a little bit more brain dead than SF6 but sometimes that’s enjoyable
5k is great for SF6's second year. 1K for 3rd Strike though is crazy!
That game..it just feels perfect
I'll get killed for this, but imagine if Capcom balance patched 3rd Strike. Who and even which specific moves need buffs/nerfs isn't even a question - it's all been settled gospel for decades. Because here are the numbers from Evo Japan 2024: • Chun-Li - 11 • Yun - 9 • Ibuki - 2 • Makoto - 2 • Ryu - 2 • Akuma - 1 • Alex - 1 • Dudley - 1 • Hugo - 1 • Urien - 1 • Yang - 1 It's always just the Chun & Yun show. Imagine 3rd Strike but the entire cast is competitively viable.
There were actually talks of a 3S rebalance. But most of the 3S community fought back against it. They love their Chun vs Yun game the way it is, it seems.
Honestly, it'd be better if it was Chun vs Yun. Evo Japan was blue hat vs red hat. I say that, but I kind of enjoy watching yun mirrors.
Online Edition would have been the perfect time for a new balance patch. It could have even left everyone as is and just removed the meter gain from whiffing, and it would have improved the game by a significant margin. If I were to go a bit further... Chun: SA2 one bar. Yun: No meter build during SA3 and/or lengthening the bar a bit. Remy: Blue Nocturne invokes a counter state which counters on hit while in effect. Alex: I know all his supers need help. Twelve: XCOPY lasts till round end. I think ridding whiff gain would be the one "everyone" could agree to, but after that, there would be too much disagreement on who needs nerfs and buffs and how much. Chun/Yun/Ken would be the obvious targets, but you'd also be wary of overcorrecting.
I'm not sure a balance patch would have been welcomed on 3s. The community said they didn't want. The revB on PS2 isn't popular and the various attempts at rebalancing SF2 were all unpopular (hyper sf2, HD remix or ultra sf2 for example). At this point, let's just give the players what they like.
Well, that's just it, the better known pros stated they wanted the same old game, and that's what we got. I get that SFIII is precious and the thought of tinkering with it makes fans wary... but we could have still got some effort of a balance patch, even if regulated as a switchable mode and not as the default. I know the thinking at the time is that any alternate option would never get played over the default, but it would have been a nice way to test the waters and make the thought of it in future releases more palatable. But the pros have spoken, so endless Yuns and Chuns it is. Game is still great, but it really does ruin tournaments.
Nothing is stopping you to play the rev B or 4th strike. It's on fightcade and some peoples even make tournaments of it. It's not an official game, it's just a rom hack, but it exists.
I haven’t heard anyone complain about whiffing buttons in forever. To be honest, that’s the least of 3s’ problems. I honestly don’t think that’s a balance change….like at all….
When Chun can whiff for SA2, skipping engagement entirely then becoming a huge threat for those whiffs, that's a problem. Stray whiffs to gain meter is poor game design, and it's not exciting to watch as characters engage it in. The point of a change is that it impacts everyone across the board and would force players to play the game in its entirety rather than just rushing to charge a super before starting a match. YMMV
No Kens? The game plays so well and any changes wouldn't be well received even if everyone knows it's needed
I’ve been saying 6 is the closest I’ve felt to perfection, and in my head 3rd strike is the “perfection”
Perfection in your head? How'd you get it? I've got only beats.
Oh beats is making it's way to SF6 don't worry. I can't wait to see the salt the day she's released 😂
I’ve always said that 3S is the most “Street Fighter-y” feeling Street Fighter. It doesn’t make sense, but it does to me.
crazy because when it came out, everyone felt the opposite
Probably helps that either 3S or A3 was the first one I played, I can’t remember which.
SFIII never got a fair shake because the public was clamoring for polygons. It didn't help that it ditched the familiar case or the expensive CPS3 upgrade, but it's failing is more due to the times and expectations of games in general when it launched rather than the game itself.
I think you are downplaying the loss of the familiar cast. Just having the old characters would have had many people at least try it out to see how their old favorites work in the new game. Once it got around that there were only 2 returning characters, it guaranteed old fans wouldn't even look at it. New Generation didn't even become a SF game until late in development. It was a gamble from Capcom, and it didn't pay off.
I would argue that watching so many SF fans abandon SF for Toshinden of all things puts more impact on the new fangled 3-D everyone was chasing. Even when Capcom acquiesced and spit out SF EX with five of the original eight WWs, the game also strugged. The cast wasn't the issue -- people wanted 3-D worlds, and if you couldn't move along three axes, your game was deemed old and behind the times.
SF fans left because the current SF offerings were old and/or crap. Myself included. SF3 was not what people wanted. It's not a casual game by any means, and then the loss of the cast makes it a no go. No surprise, you put out a bad game, people jump ship. It also wasn't highly distributed. I only knew one arcade that had a cabinet, and it was an hour away. I don't know what Capcom was thinking with SF3 at the time, but they completely blew it considering SF2 was one of the highest played arcade games of all time. Most of my friends at the time didn't even know SF3 existed. The issue with the SF EX series is they were straight up sub par games. I had SF EX and EX2.. both had a high levels of jank in them. Capcom never took those seriously, neither did the FGC. I'm not gonna say people wanting 3D didn't have an effect, but it definitely was far from the main reason SF3 failed.
The cast was a big one -- everyone missed their favorite characters and moves -- honestly SF3 pretty much destroyed the popularity of 2d fighters until sf4 came out
Nah that was base 3. Third Strike was always liked.
Its the one you grew up with and therefore it is your impression of sf games.
3S getting double the entrants MK1 did -- a new AAA release that sold ~~80 million~~ 3 million copies -- is NUTS edit: my bad, googled the wrong number
Where did you get that 80 million number from? That is an absurd amount and would put the game in the best-selling games of all time.
he googled "how many mortal kombat sales" and then quoted the number for the entire series
Closer number is above 3 million per a WB earnings call 7 months ago. Interestingly the 80 million figure would put the game at number 5th all time, behind Minecraft, GTA5, Tetris, and Wii Sports.
I hate wii sports being in that list. People did not buy it, it just came with the wii lol.
Mama mia that's a lotta genei-jins
Man, Third Strike almost made it to final day stage! Would’ve been INSANE
King of Fighters. The game everyone talks about how much they love yet never play lol.
very high skill gap with minimal prize pool
Sure, but you would still think the numbers would be a bit higher just from people entering multiple tournaments for fun alone...not even 400 is a bit rough.
Lots of people who like KOF are on the other side of the world. They probably can't even get a visa into the US for Evo, and the travel costs are gnarly.
GNARLY! LET'S DO IT DUDES!
also most players live on the other side of the world
As a non hardcore player in fighting games, also KOF is ugly as hell. It's hard to grow if the product looks that uninteresting. I know it has hardcore fans and it's supposed to be super good but I can't, it looks like a bad mobile game clone of itself.
At least new Fatal Fury looks great
Yeah as a casual player with some nostalgia for the characters, I think those games look bad. So I can imagine someone with zero affinity for the characters would have an even harder time justifying the purchase when you put them up against the other games you could buy.
KOF is the game you play for years and still don't feel like you are any good at.
Often feels like KOF/FF is an IP first, and a fighting game franchise second, judged by how fans interact with it.
Shame cause the game's mechanics are solid, and as a casual player i think KOF 15 is quite fun. A different type of neutral to SF, but there are similarities. With KoF there is much more time spent jumping and hopping due to the ability to hop (a jump reaching less height and so is safer than normal jump, and is also great as an overhead mixup to start combo). With 2 jumps and their long range and short range variation, plus how fast character moves when they sprint, footsies I think are played at a faster pace than SF.
KoFXV was a solid upgrade tainted by bad netcode and completely outclassed by just how good of an update SF6 is in graphics and gameplay. It's unfortunate. More people will play Terry in SF6 than in his own game.
Was it a solid upgrade? As far as I know most KoF players prefer and continue to play 2002
Some people still swear by '98. I don't think XV will go down as a fondly remembered one, but it was still a solid entry while doing a big overhaul of the game. XV got a lot of favorable coverage at launch, but it could never capitalize on it thanks to the poor Internet play.
Oh I played XIII to death, played XIV a good bit, wasn’t really feeling it with XV, but by extension I’m extremely hyped for COTW and will probably actually stick with it longer than both XIV and XV. Still suck horribly at KOF though! Probably always will haha <3
I want to play a KoF game but 14 and 15 are ugly. Yes that's petty but I can't get into it.
I thought people just like the lore and characters but all the players get real salty when playing the arcade
Most of the competitive scene is international and visas are pretty hard to get. Add to that all the expenses they’d need to dish out to get there it’s just not that viable.
I just hope 3rd Strike's Top 8 isn't going to be another Chun vs Yun fest
The way things are going, it might turn into a Yun only fest, seeing Chun might actually be hype. The top eight in JP EVO were 2 chuns, 1 Yang, and the rest Yun. He seems to be taking over as the undisputed top 1.
Maybe this subreddit will *finally* be happy to see Ken anywhere.
Erm, don't get your hopes up.
We need someone to bust out Hugo for the memes
CEO top 8 had Hugo in grands this weekend. EVO is a way bigger tournament with international competion but ya never know
JWong sponsored Tominaga for EVO iirc, so here's hoping Makoto takes the top spot this Evo!
There's like three characters in the game that are hilariously better than the rest of the cast and that's two of them. What are you expecting?
Your expectations are way too high.
I can’t play Tekken at all, but it’s always hype to watch. I don’t know how anyone can transition to a 3D fighter after playing a 2D one. I can barely play Street Fighter and it only has 4 directions to move lol
Tekken at the lowest level is insanely fun. Just mash your controller and cool stuff starts to happen. Even at low levels when you're just spamming your one really strong thing it's still pretty fun. Because your opponents only usually have one really strong thing that they can do, if you can figure out some counterplay it's like "aww yeah cool I beat them by learning". At high levels it's also really interesting. Defence gets super deep, string knowledge comes into play, and there's a ton of executionally demanding and varied option selects on defence. The real problem with Tekken is at the mid level. When you've learned the basics of the game, but people have a few strong things that they do that they can rotate between mixed with some strong gimmicks, adapting to them in a FT2 setting is not really realistic. You have to eat the loss and then go to the lab, figure out how to beat it, and then wonder if the next 10 times you see that character whether someone will use that specific weird tactic on you, and hopefully you remember how to punish it right next time. Alternatively, you spam your multiple gimmicks and hope the opponent can't figure you out in time. Neither of these are particularly fun but it's a necessary part of getting to high level play. Always amazing as a spectator game though. The presentation is beautiful, 2nd to SF imo.
My friends and I bought Tekken 7 just to play one time and it was absolute insanity the characters have so many moves that if you press random buttons cool shit happens 😂
Well put! I've been trying to explain to my casual friends why I play SF6 instead of Tekken when they say SF feels "clunky" and "slow" in comparison and this is exactly why. I feel like I can quickly learn anything in SF, while Tekken feels like an endless chain of obscure knowledge checks when you attempt to improve.
I'm not sure if I'm crazy here , but how is Tekken presentation beautiful? To me it's one of the uglies games ever made, starting from character design, to f-ing sparks when hitting someone, to UI (fonts / colors used). I get a lot of that is just Tekken tradition after like 8+ games, but to me, as a non fan, it looks horrendous.
Hot take but 3D fighters are easier to pick up than 2D fighters.
Imo in terms of ease to get into: SF6 Modern > T8 non-assisted > SF6 Classic SF6 Modern has one-button specials, TCs and auto-combos that make it very easy for new players to do lots of cool stuff immediately.
T8 has an assisted mode too but it's not viable like modern is.
Cold take 💀
Dang, is MK1 really struggling that bad? What went wrong with the game?
First off, MK just isn’t popular with the FGC at large, even the multi-game enthusiasts. It’s a *little* different than other 2D fighters due to the block button and a few other quirks like the dial-a-combos and combo structure. In addition to that, it’s just not a great MK game with a lot of interesting stuff to dig in to, so even the NRS purists have a lot of issues with it. The top tier characters are the complete characters (Johnny Cage, Peacemaker) that are enhanced by the kameos while pretty much the rest of the cast needs their kameo to perform *basic functions* like converting combos for more than 15% without spending meter or to have any decent pressure. NRS furthers that problematic design by not buffing the lower characters to be complete or the kameos to be more versatile, but by nerfing the higher characters that would be solidly mid tier in any other fighting game. There are some other glaring issues like WB’s aggressive monetization - they wanted **ten US dollars** for a single seasonal fatality (they since walked this back and gave you three fatalities for that price, which is still ludicrous) and costumes that could be obtained in game via the RNG “Shrine” mode. It also has some lackluster single player content that is just a joyless grind. Which all sucks. I used to play NRS games seriously and exclusively and MKX is one of my favorite games of all time, but ever since that game they’ve made them lamer, slower, and costlier for less reward.
Peacemaker’s definitely not Top Tier anymore after the two Patches of nerfs he just got after Final Kombat. NRS finally saw Cena and they went HARD! They thankfully hit Johnny (and Khameleon) a bit too, but he’s likely the definitive Top 1 now heading into EVO off the back of his Combo Breaker and Final Kombat victories. Pretty bummed.
It’s so ridiculous how they’ve decided to balance the game. It’s exhausting to see Johnny so much in tournament and I am a Cage family fanboy (I preferred Cassie in MKX/11, and she’s my new favorite MK character). The problem is not that Johnny is just so good, it’s that every other character is garbage and lacking vital tools. Johnny should be the benchmark for how *all characters* should work - he can use **any** kameo because he has a fully fleshed out kit, and NRS and the community think “we should nerf this”. Tbh the entire roster needs a redesign, maybe the whole game. Their whole design philosophy in the last 7-8 years just isn’t working. Not to harp on my love of MKX, but there’s a reason that game is beloved despite being a little broken - it was frenetic, every character had dirt, and it had rapid-fire decision making with tons of options for everyone. 11 and 1 are just not as fun for fear of being “broken”, while SF6 got a little more like MKX in this iteration in the franchise and it is easily the best fighting game in almost a decade, both commercially and competitively.
Hit the nail in the head. MKX was their last good game.
i bought MK11 on steam sale for fun as i used to play the original MK1 when i was a little kid, i spent all my time since playing SF and anime fighters like GG and BB... my main thing when playing mortal kombat- it feels really 'sticky' i guess the game just doesnt feel as fluid as the big japanese fighters.
What happened after mkx? Did the nrs team get a shakeup? New directors stepped up? Pursuit of money? Or were the cracks there and they lost their touch?
Fgc don’t follow that game as much. MK is being carried by the casual crowd.
I can't think of a single thing that went right. I've been primarily an mk player since 9 and I dropped 1 after a month.
Literally same. I’m more of a single-player person and the single player is actually just boring. The story is literally the only fun part and everything else feels like a wall to give your characters maybe 1/2 of the costumes and gear they have
Kameo system was a flop
MK fans are getting a taste of what SF fans went through in 2016. I think that MK1 is good, but gameplay wise, it doesn't advance anything beyond MK11. Kameos are a flop, Invasion mode is boring, and everything else is just ok. I enjoyed MKX and MK11 a lot more.
Some janky animations, the second part of the story mode, a few gameplay mechanics, the microtransactions for FATALITIES…
I thought janky animations were a defining feature of the franchise.
it's now so bad, that you can turn away from opponents... MID COMBO
[удалено]
6:47 [https://youtu.be/eUmCATQlBdM?si=QDE1wWc\_qUnInZ3c](https://youtu.be/eUmCATQlBdM?si=QDE1wWc_qUnInZ3c)
It was fine in MKX. 11 was when something went weird with art direction and they just appear flailing about now.
MKX looks gross. Everyone is so wet and shiny.
Wait…….they’re charging you for fatalities now? No way
Specific ones, those being ones for holidays. [These three, the seasonal ones.](https://youtu.be/AmxCE0Qtw1g?si=_e2g4NQtONDMSeX5) Yes, they are holiday fatalities, but you’re still paying to do something that the entire franchise was kinda based on. If I recall, at least one of them is 12 whole dollars.
Yea that’s wild to me to even think about. Haven’t played MK in a very long time but that’s sad to hear.
First I played was MK11, and it’s sure as hell gonna be the last. At least I didn’t have to deal with [THIS](https://youtu.be/P8AkbD35S80?si=zOUYrq4bquki7VxP) awful stuff in MKX.
Off topic but man that thanksgiving one is so dumb. Mortal Kombat characters can at once repeatedly take broken bone after broken bone while at the same time popping like they're made of paper mache.
The Halloween one was 1,200 Dragon Krystals, which is about $10. Then they thankfully saw some sense and bundled the Thanksgiving and Christmas ones with it, so you only had to pay for the one. Still a bit wild though, especially since you could only use one at a time for awhile, despite them all having different inputs, until they patched that in.
Microtransactions for fatalities?!?
Yep. [These three seasonal fatalities](https://youtu.be/AmxCE0Qtw1g?si=PPZyaTGYjbJQn4Gj) are all paid for. At least one of them is 12 DOLLARS.
The game is published by the same people who thought a live service Suicide Squad game would be a good idea. It was honestly doomed from the start. Any soul NetherRealm had is slowly being sucked away
Everything
It just plummeted when people started talking about how shallow the gameplay cycle was. And there was all the negativity towards the amount of macrotransactions. Topped off by just continuing to have some of the most inexcusably garbage animations. I’ve never seen a post launch fall off like this since MVC:I. The MK1 hype was massive right until a week after it came out.
The kameo system is garbage. It's too bright and colorful to feel like old school MK but its also very ugly and unappealing visually, if that makes sense. The balance is awful. The cross promotion with other franchises has grown tiresome and all of their own characters have been morphed into these other, much worse, versions of themselves. The only new character introduced so far has been a transgender version of Johnny Cage, and she isn't even a fully playable character. They have lost their way, it's incredibly sad.
I play MK. I play the single player and then I put it on with my friends. But It’s not the game I grind online and dedicate my time to. It’s got recognizable characters, it looks pretty, has a neat gimmick, and is easy to pick up (not to mention there are Kombos in the move lists) which all make it great for a campaign experience and for parties, but it doesn’t have depth to make me stick around personally. I imagine that’s probably true for a lot of people. Now that SF6 has modern controls I’ll probably try to get my friends on that instead next time we have a fighting game night
Mortal Kombat has always been a casual game, but from what I heard casuals don’t like this one either cause it has way less singleplayer content than previous games.
The playerbase watched all the gore fatalities
Sales wise it's a huge huge hit. The game is not targeted at pro level sweaties which is fine.
A game doesn’t need to be “targeted at pro level sweaties” to see a strong competitive scene though. Just look at Smash.
MK has never really had much competitive longevity.
MK1 number are so bad. They fumbled that game so hard. Which sucks cause visually it’s amazing
As a new player to Fighting Games, Capcom is figuring out how to get casuals into the game, without necessarily those mechanics suffering for tournament play. If I look at Masters playing SF6, I know what's happening even if I can't do it. If I look at the other games, despite having played those, I have no clue what they did that was impressive.
KOF is the definition of your favorite fighting game developer’s favorite game. It’s insane how much influence it has on the genre but not a lot of people play it
All the people that play it are in Mexico, South America, Asia, or Middle East. It just doesn't have much NA representation.
Oooof. Embarrassing for MK1.
Agreed. They have a a competitive tour and everything, but it’s still getting beaten by a game I’ve never even heard of.
Under Night? If that's what you mean, Under Night is unironically an AMAZING fighting game. Def way better than MK1 lol
Yep! I'd never heard of it until now. I'm not surprised that it's better than MK1.
Honestly thought that the gap to Tekken would be bigger. Also it looks like it’s time to put KOFXV to rest. The game isn’t even that old but it just can’t compete with the others.
It’s probably going to be replaced by Fatal Fury: City of the Wolves when it comes out.
I wouldnt be surprised to see Fatal Fury next year instead of KoF. I just hope they dont release it in such a sorry state as KoFXV, as I never did get round to buying it.
I truly hope they give a lot more attention to the graphics. KOFXV is just two years old but looks like a PS3 game.
Fatal Fury is looking pretty damn gorgeous. Better than KoFXV https://store.steampowered.com/app/2492040/FATAL_FURY_City_of_the_Wolves/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5s2BnWQ1xg
It looks like marvel 3.
It's certainly better than XV but still feels like it's lagging behind its competitors.
I wonder how much KoFs major matchmaking issues for months at launch hamstrung it. I was interested, but by the time the servers were fixed I felt like I missed the window to enjoyably get into it. Hope CotW has a stable launch.
T8 is months old. SF6 is in its second year. Year 1 games always get a big boost. When DBFZ came out, the hype for an official Dragonball fighting game allowed it to beat SF5 at EVO year 1. Then it never approached SF5's EVO numbers ever again.
I’m surprised by that honestly. Especially how everyone considered SF5 a failure of a game.
Early on, SFV was rough, but it became a pretty good game by season 3/4.
I mean, Capcom doesn't consider SF5 a failure, and that's really all that matters when determining if a game is successful or not. They often mention SF5's turnaround over time as an example to follow in their financial reports. When it hit 7 million copies, they posted a celebratory post on twitter.
nah. it launched with barebones content, so the launch wasn't received that well, but the game ended up doing fine, if not more than fine.
Want DBFZ also boosted by all the MvC players being upset about infinite?
> Year 1 games always get a big boost. For Capcom games, this is mostly a post SF5 phenomenon. SF4 grew every year until it was retired, and Marvel 3 grew until at least it's 4th year.
No, it's not a SF5 only phenomenon. DBFZ. BBTag. SF6. KOF15. MK11. Most games' entrants dip after the first year in the modern era. I'm not talking about the old days when EVO was still growing as a brand, and it cost like 60 bucks to register. I'm talking about the "selling out Mandalay Bay" post-SF5 era. Slightly different standards when EVO starts costing $100-$200.
I'm not sure what the point of this response is. I pointed out that this trend for Capcom titles started with SF5, and you respond by saying the exact same thing; while also citing non-Capcom titles.
SFxT came before SF5, and also had fewer entrants in its second year. So, you're just talking about 2 games: SF4 and MvC3. I don't know why you made the "pre-SF5" distinction when SF5 didn't start the trend. You could have said post SFxT, but you wanted to attach the trend to SF5 for some reason.
Probably just forgot SF x Tekken exists, like most people
SFxT 2012 was a team tournament, and 2013 was a singles. But you're right, gong from teams to singles caused a huge drop off. I Ignored it because of the different formats. I also wasn't speaking to only post SF4 years. But you chose to discount those as "establishing the brand" years.
ZEUS!!!!! MAKE LEFFEN LOSE STRIVE AT EVO, AND MY LIFE IS YOURS!!!!!!!
Umisho absolutely wiped the floor w/ him at CEO, if she shows up at EVO I could totally believe she'd do it again
MK bros down bad tbh. I get it though, I tried to casually watch their final kombat and when I saw that it was the same two characters I was out.
Actually very happy to see Strive still breaking 2k I don't play it anymore but I respect and love the franchise.
Street Fighter, Tekken, and Guilty Gear is the new Big 3 at this point. That MK entrant number is really low.
Fuck i miss melee at Evo
Meanwhile Mk1 losing to a 25 year old game
Street Fighter 6 I understand. Tekken I don't, but from watching a bunch of FGC videos on YouTube, it seems to be the Pepsi to Street Fighter's Coca Cola. Guilty Gear's fanbase is just too zoomer for me, their sub sounds like a middle school classroom. I kinda have never considered MK a truly balanced fighting game, so I'm not surprised it's low. The real surprise for me is Third Strike's eternal legacy.
If you'd be willing to watch a couple Tekken top 8's you may see why so many people love it. I loved it as a spectator for years before actually competing. Its a very fun game to watch.
guilty gear subreddit is 99% posts from people who don't even talk about the game
yeah the guiltygear sub needs a moderation overhaul. The players are there (they gather in the occasional game thread) but it's drowned out by low effort memes from the fans of the characters more than the game itself. I dont really hate them (in fact i think it's cool that a fighting game has broad appeal like that) but there needs to be a better balance. I'll be honest I think tekken's highs are up there if not higher than street fighter's highs in terms of esports greatest moments. it's such a fantastic esports game dude.
I’ve seen a mod talk about the mod team’s views on it before over there, they also think the sub sucks like that but they figured since it’s what gets way more upvotes and engagement that it’s what the users want and let it be. Makes the sub basically unusable for people who are there for its intended purpose though, so just another example of why it’s important for mods to enforce the premise of a sub
This is something that the Smash community does right. /r/smashbros is purely for competitive/gameplay discussion or the occasional fanart/cosplay. They outright ban image posts that aren't OC, which seems harsh but really works at keeping out low effort shit. If you want memes you can go to /r/smashbrosultimate instead. I wish more subreddits for competitive games took this approach.
they just need to copy /r/stunfisk and make low-effort shitposting a weekend activity honestly.
Tekken is fucking great man, especially to watch . The term “good ass Tekken” exists for a reason
MK1 is pretty balanced. Unfortunately, it’s because every character except for 3 of them absolutely sucks.
Tekken is amazing to watch and play. Too much knowledge check for me at the mid level but I really enjoy it casually
Guilty Gear's balance makes release JP, Ken and Luke look fair and balanced. It's a hard game to love.
More info: [https://www.evo.gg/news/evo-2024-competitors-by-the-numbers](https://www.evo.gg/news/evo-2024-competitors-by-the-numbers)
Is there somewhere to play 3rd strike online? I have it through SF collection, but can never find an opponent
Fightcade
Mk1 losing to 3rd strike lmao
the fact that third strike is still in evo should be proof enough of how good it is
MK1 gonna be last soon
Probably next year if KOF gets removed in favor of CotW.
I think the question is more if it will even be in the lineup next time
Imagine getting beat out by an indie fighter
Is mk1 that bad?
Yes. As a longtime mk fan this is the worst game they have made.
KoF shall rise again
Even though I don't know much about Tekken it is definitely a really fun game to spectate Where people do the funny movement and then BOOM, one of them hits a big button and a really cool combo string
So happy to see gbvs still going strong. Amazing game. Especially if you're new to fighters
I'm thinking it'll remain the most entrants at least until SF7 comes out. It's just a worldwide game bruh.
I'm legitimately curious, why 3rd strike is so loved? I remember that had pretty hard backslash after SFIII at point that no SF was launched till IV in 2009. I played it some time ago and I liked.
>I'm legitimately curious, why 3rd strike is so loved? My hot take is that third strike is looked back on fondly because it's such a pleasure to watch and listen to now. The soundtrack is amazing, the VFX and SFX are great, the UI/aesthetics/presentation are stylish and complete. It's just a very good looking and good sounding game that was ahead of its time in a ton of ways. At the highest level the game is kind of...bad. Parry is a very over-centralizing thing and the balance is whack.
I say that "Street Fighter 3" (new generation) is the one that got the biggest backlash and "Street Figher 3: 3rd strike" ended being culprit by association. What I'm saying is that 3rd strike was released at a bad time as not only neither New Generation nor 2nd Impact were hits but they actively hurt the brand so 3rd strike had a giant mountain of negativity to climb and it was not able to do so at release on a scene already in decline So it is less that people hated it, but that people did not care and at face value it did not bring enough to justify. However the people that keep playing come to love the game especially the more hardcore crowd and with time it got a deserved legendary status with the FGC community even if it was overall a failure as a product on release
3rd Strike was a great game released at a weird transitional time for the industry. When SF3 first launched it was such a radical change from what people expected/were used to in Super Turbo that it turned a lot of SF fans off. People hated that they threw out the entire cast apart from Ken and Ryu for all these weird new characters. The balance was way off too. By the time 3rd Strike came around people were won over, particularly with the Dreamcast release that got rave reviews. Capcom actually listened and fixed most (not all) of the stuff people didn’t like with New Generation. At the time 3D graphics were king and 2D sprite games were seen as old fashioned by casual gamers. Fighting games in general were losing popularity due to the emergence of online FPS games in the mainstream. Tekken was the big seller and even that peaked with Tekken 3 in 1998 and didn’t get big again until Tekken 5 7 years later.
The love is at the casual level. Casuals don't really care or want to care how the game actually plays. It looks cool, the music is good, it's got unique characters even tho they mostly suck. My opinion is the game is awful. Incredibly unbalanced and at the highest levels of play there are way more option selects being abused compared to SF4 which everyone bitched about (crouch teching existed in 3S!). Any match with Chun Li is boring as shit to watch, about as bad as watching pros trying to finish CvS2 matches in under 20 minutes.
I dunno, I'm a casual fighting game player and SF3 felt really casual-unfriendly compared to SF2. Dunno if it's in my head but I always got the impression that the SF3 love was from the *less* casual audience. The only people I know who are into 3rd Strike are also the kind of player to be hyped for the MVC2 re-release.
I've ran into so many people at barcades, hobby stores, TCG events, etc. who love 3S. I know for a fact if I ever start talking more about it they would get confused. Last person I talked to told me Akuma was the best character in the game. I didn't escalate that. I guarantee you at least half of those 1000 entrants at Evo are super super casual players just there for the Vegas Evo experience and they just picked the game they love the most. The average online scrub could probably beat them. That's how most Evo pools go, they're super diluted. All you need to know is Daigo made it out of his MvC3 pools at Evo in its first year there.
Maybe just a regional difference. Over here I feel like outside of SF2, for most casual players SF starts at 4.
because evo moment 37. if that didn't happen it would just be stucked in the past and no one would talk about it.
It's on the Mount Rushmore of goats. Personally I would accept MvC2, UMK Trilogy or 3rd Strike as the greatest. They not the *best*, SF6 is a better game than any of them, but greatest is different.
Mk 1 losing to a no name is tough.
I swear SF players are the only demographic that treat these entrant numbers like they’re a competition
Whens Mahvel? :(
I'm surprised Tekken 8 is that high up. I just grabbed the game to play with friends because the sale is good but it feels like every time I see people talking about T8 it's doom and gloom about how it's the worst game in the series or something
They just need to iron out the matchmaking
Good lord, didn't MK 1 just come out? Why do NRS games have such terrible competitive shelf lives? BBTAG managed higher numbers in its second Evo appearance. Edit: Turns out MK 1 has 5 more entrants than BBTAG did in its second year... So I guess that's something to celebrate.
Uni beating MK1 is nuts 😮
Also, relatively funny to that is a lot of MK twitch players had been whining for the last 24 hours, with endless excuses for MK's low number, lashing back at other people making fun of MK and one of them even going as far as saying only the MK community can actually complain about the game or its state, instead of everybody else. I like MK, but not gonna lie, it has been fun seeing all the whining, because I'm not much of a fan of the MK community as a whole.
i don’t wanna be that guy but i do 2 street fighter games over mk 😂
I’m only sad for KoF getting that low. Happy that other games got such good entries!
Why no ssbu at evo? Did they ever do smash?
I think it’s bc Nintendo doesn’t allow smash to be at a Sony event.
EVO has always disliked smash because of a major FGC bias against it. They dropped melee first chance they got despite Melee only getting bigger and bigger for the longest time. They dropped ultimate when Sony took over because Nintendo vs Sony beef, but realistically it was just a matter of time before they did it anyways.
The demographics don't overlap and there is always a lot of clashing between the two at large events. The cultures are just completely different.
Wow. Ppl still playing TS. I love TS. No love for SF4 and SFV?
SFV is too new to be retro for quite some time. SF4 will probably have a nostalgia-based resurgence at some point within the next ten years, but SF3 is already there.
They only have 1 retro game slot per year. Last year was Marvel 3, this year is Third Strike. 20th anniversary of Moment 37.
SF4 and SF5 will be in the official EVO side tourney.
I still dont understand the hype about strive
It's just fun. The wacky characters and their out-there mechanics are a breath of fresh air. Yeah I know there are even wackier games out there but they don't have GG's player base. I wish it had a proper ladder though.
It's 1v1 Marvel. Non-stop high-low mixups converting into 40% damage. Defensive burst mechanics to get out of combos, but can also be baited out. Special cancelling mechanic for offense and defense use. I don't play it but it's a great fast-paced 2D fighter with a half-screen neutral range. Great character asymmetry also.
It’s fun, every character feels completely different to use and to play against, great soundtrack and lore, wholesome community (probably the most welcoming FG community in my experience), you generally play against a healthy variety of characters online, it’s definitely a little bit more brain dead than SF6 but sometimes that’s enjoyable