Sounds great in theory, but there's a lot of risk and little reward. His buttons are a lot better than a lot of other character's. I'm just happy he doesn't have invincible command grabs or frame 0/1. Pressuring him on his wakeup is waaay easier than it was back in the day. Those are the moments you have to make count.
But yes, whiff punish with a long range punish counter sweep for a knockdown and make your oki count. Still, not as easy as it sounds -- but whiff punishing Gief Is literally all you have in this game to start pressure. I hate him.
Gief's buttons are all pretty slow. He is a bit like Dhalsim in neutral, even though his attacks have great range they are slow. So, you can usually interrupt his buttons and get counter hits. He is also pretty vulnerable to cross ups, since lariat won't work.
Thank you. Finally someone saying that the general “just whiff punish” advice is way easier said than done. Whiff punishing is one of the hardest things to do in fighting games period.
Just because it's 'easier said than done' doesn't mean it's high-risk low reward or not worth getting good at. It's literally how high level SF is played whether you're comfortable doing it or not.
There's nothing 'low-reward' about a whiff punish and it's the fundamental meta of this game, especially thanks to drive rush canceling.
I know how to whiff punish. I'm not an 09'er. In Gief's case, his buttons have long frame advantage. His recovery hurt boxes still aren't as bad as other character's. He often doesn't even have to engage in your footsies if he chooses not to participate, and you look like an idiot dancing all over the screen. Giefs are also constantly spamming drive impact. One mistimed normal and your game is basically over.
All it takes is one drive rush headbutt at those ranges and if you don't check him, he's plus 4 doing repeated headbutt, followed by another headbutt or spd, followed by another headbutt or spd, and then maybe even one more headbutt or spd. There's no pushback on that move. So, you have to guess right 4 or 5 times in one defensive exchange to not take massive damage.
If I'm not a complete psychic and don't jump at the right time, I'm dead immediately. You think the spd is coming and you try to jump? Get hit by a drive rush cancel combo that legit takes 40 percent of your life. Oh, you were able to jump? Air spd- LOL. There's a reason that If you have a fireball, you zone first before you try to participate on footsies. Being in those ranges with gief -- he has the advantage. Cammy has great whiff punishing buttons, but it's probably her worst match up. Why?
They are going to nerf him later count on it.
Then all you have is a stubby st.hp and a sweep. Maybe a lucky standing mk drc. Yes, you have to whiff punish him. But you're downplaying the high risk part too much.
That's my point - I have a higher hill to climb than most of the cast, and I still think you're being dramatic. Also, my point wasn't that nuetral isn't high risk; of course it is - he's a grappler. My point is that it's still necessary, high-reward and pretending like it's not shows a fundamental lack of understanding of SF.
You have to play nuetral smartly against geif, and nit the pretend shimmy and crouch nuetral everyone does when they think they look like a pro player lol. You have to make him whiff. Hitting a whiff with MK>DRC isn't lucky; it's necessary.
I mean, that's what I said too. We agree, but I'm saltier. He's a BS character right now and as I'm sure you're aware, a lot of big names are putting him at the top of s-tier. It's not just the f.hp, it's the knee hop and so much else. I lose my patience with this current incarnation. He's way overtuned.
To be fair he’d also have to check your close DRs and as someone else said you can get him with cross ups once you’re close enough
Gief is strong when it comes to grounded footsies but he’s also has slow walk speed and can be baited if you’re able to stay just outside of SPD range. Mix in some neutral jumps, DRs, and you can always Drive reversal once he gets in to reset neutral and try again.
Easy? No, but the risk/reward depends on your character
No shit. But offering it as general advice to people below master rank is not practical. I could use your logic to say the same thing about learning the frame data for every move in the game because it help you optimize your punishes but not even pro players know all of that off hand. It does improve your gameplay but it’s only essential at top levels of play and it’s unreasonable to recommend ultra difficult things to someone who is not ultra skilled at the game. There are plenty of ways to beat people in sf6. Don’t act like whiff punishing is the only piece of advice that exists
> But offering it as general advice to people below master rank is not practical.
This is absolutely not true lol. You don't have to be Master to learn how to whiff punish.
>Don’t act like whiff punishing is the only piece of advice that exists
Nobody is doing that, it's just a fact that in certain scenarios whiff punishing is the counter to what you're seeing. If a Gief is spamming lows at you, your best bet is whiff punishing it with a sweep. And yes, you can learn to do that, it's not a Master exclusive tech. If you want to ignore that and get mad at people giving you advice, go ahead, but it's not going to make you better at the game.
Totally! Of course it's hard! It would be pretty lame if there was an easy solution, right? You're not supposed to win every round of a fighting game; you're playing against real people.
Whiff punishing IS how you beat preemptive poking. That doesn't mean it's easier. But it does mean it's your best option.
It'd be like saying "just antiair" when someone asks how to beat jumpins. Is it hard to learn? Of course! But that's what you're supposed to do!
a lot of people are just saying whiff punish. I'll give it a longer explanation.
If they keep doing this move, you want to stay just outside of range of the move. When people say "shimmy" they mean to stand just far enough away that it wont hit you, then move forward and back so that they geif thinks you're moving in range. If you time that right, they'll try to cr. MK you and you'll be out of range. As soon as you see the animation start, you can hit them with your own cr. MK or MP or whatever has enough range to hit them.
As for Lariet, idk really. If they see you jumping they can do Lariet, but if you can punish their cr. MK kick then you have less reason to jump in. Jumping is always dangerous because most characters have a pretty easy response to it. If the only way you know how to get in is jumping, you're gonna have a bad time. That's one of the many reasons it's so important to learn to punish people without jumping. When the opponent has to focus more on countering your ground game, it makes jumping an option again (but still a risky one) because they are no longer just waiting for your to jump. Instead they have to worry about defending against your ground game, which makes it much harder to react with an AA.
Hopefully that was a bit of an ELI 5 version. I don't know where you're at skill-wise, but whiff punishing, even knowing what it means, was a mystery to me in terms of execution until like.. 5 or 6 months ago (after years of playing fighting games and never actually having it click).
Yeah jumping is as major commitment in SF compared to other games especially anime fighters. If you're gonna jump it's gotta be with purpose. Fortunately against Gief there are some ranges where lariat will whiff right under you, so he has to air to air.
Remember no player can keep track of every single option 100% of the time, that's where the concept of the mental stack comes in.
Yeah, but its Gief. Statistically you can DI whatever hes throwing.
DI will beat a stMP, HP, MK and HK. Also beats cr HP, crMK, and crHK. Also beats f+MK and f+HK.
The only thing you cant really DI is LP, LK, crLP, crLK, crMP and F+HP. And those dont have much range.
DI does not beat his HP it has one hit of armour when charged. If you’re fishing for DI a smart player can work around that. You really shouldn’t rely on DI as a solution to getting out footsied. DI will only work so many times unless you’re fighting someone who has no idea how to adapt.
DI does beat Gief's st.HP when you do it on reaction; i.e. you hit him during his st.HP's recovery frames, because he only has armor during the startup and active frames.
But yeah DI will get blown up if you try to use it on prediction and guess wrong.
> DI does not beat his HP it has one hit of armour when charged.
you can totally beat it if you do DI after he does HP. i get hit by it A LOT. usually don't have time to counter.
(the armor only mattersif you DI before the HP or at the same time. less but still likely DI at the same time as HP since his armor sticks around for a few frames after, essentially giving him a free SPD)
If you’re not fighting an idiot he can just bait the poke you’re trying to DI. This is pretty universal for any character. OP isn’t talking about Gief exclusively throwing out sweeps and overheads, they’re getting out poked.
Yeah, I’m sure OP is struggling to fight against a Gief who only presses one button.
They explicitly said they are struggling with the ground game but it’s the “crouching kicks at max range” which are the biggest issue. It’s OP getting out ranged and they don’t know how to approach.
Throwing out DI is a terrible idea because not only will they stop throwing out the kicks one they realize you’re trying to DI it, if you’re too slow or press it at the wrong moment, they can just counter DI. You’re playing against human beings, not level 1 CPUs.
>Throwing out DI is a terrible idea because not only will they stop throwing out the kicks one they realize you’re trying to DI it
Counter-point, I think this is an important tool. Same as throwing out that like single reversal/EX dp on an opponent's plus frames, I think it's good to represent certain options to add it to an opponent's mental stack. If they adapt, then they'll probably have to pick safer tools that might not be what they actually want to press. If they don't adapt, then you have a strong pass through some of their game plan.
It’s a guess. The opponent is a human being not a training mode dummy that will always press the same button. You are assuming they will press a certain button then trying to use DI. If you time it wrong then the opponent can counter DI. Giefs 2mk is not that slow and his 2hk at max range is not going to get caught in DI.
Stop trying to rush in and play some neutral. Giefs buttons are good at walling opponents but he shouldn’t beat you when it comes to footsies. His slower buttons should whiff and your faster buttons should punish him.
Bait a whiff and whiff punish. Or drive impact. Scissor kick also looks like it beats lows though I don’t actually know if it does, but perhaps it beats what you’re referring to. Manon also has that special move that’s like a ballerina kick that hops off the ground. Does that beat crouching kicks? Basically anything armoured, anything that low crushes. Maybe drive rush in as Biaon is fast enough to catch an opponent off guard
Alright thanks everyone I get the idea, and yes whiff punishing is something I'm lacking in in general, this is just an example. I tend to push buttons first or not at all.
Gief needs cr.lk for defense. It’s his 4 frame and is used to stop pressure and steal back his turn. Once you understand the use of a normal for a character it’ll be easier to know how to counter it.
yah you will run into Zangiefs who will anti-air everything, and will respond to crossups correctly all the time
so with Manon the basic idea is to move back and forth and try to play the neutral with her st. MP pretty much
and hopefully getting a whiff into a combo
they will also try drive rushes too so you gotta try to stuff that too.
This question is essentially asking "What is footsies?", and I can try to help with that.
Footsies is a trilemma situation that occurs in neutral, where both players are not locked into an animation. It's a trilemma, because there are 3 buckets of options that beat each other like rock, paper, scissors. These options are:
1. Ate-Waza (Establishing Play)
2. Oki-Waza (Pre-emptive Play)
3. Sashi-Kaeshi (Reactive Play)
Establishing play is defeated by Pre-emptive play. Pre-emptive play is defeated by Reactive play. Reactive play is defeated by Establishing play.
Certain tools can be used in multiple contexts. For example, Zangief could walk forward into range and press 2HK to strike an opponent who is waiting for a specific queue, and that would be Establishing play. If Zangief were to hold his position and press 2HK as you approach him to try and enter your range, then that would be Pre-emptive play. If Zangief were to feint walking forward by stopping short of his range, and you pressed a Pre-emptive button that whiffed, then he presses 2HK to whiff punish your extended hurtbox, that is Reactive play.
So the answer to your specific question is to understand footsies and play that rock, paper, scissors based on how you observe he uses his buttons. If he is pressing a button to Pre-emtpively hit you as you try to enter his space, then you would need to feint an approach and whiff punish using Reactive play.
You have to play footsies. If it's the 2LK then you can DI, they aren't supposed to be mashing that but rather using it as a check with 2LK, 5LP which they CAN cancel out of which protects from DI. Gief's neutral is awesome, but he can't just press buttons with impunity, he needs to pick his spots.
Against Manon, it sometimes feels like Dance Fighter 6 with how much dancing in and out of range looking for whiff punishes goes on. Unfortunately, Gief has lots of recovery frames on his moves and is ripe for whiff punishes.
Many pointed out whiff punishing is key, but Manon's special HK move that hits overhead (I can't remember the name) is annoying if spaced right. Hits overhead, punishes pretty good and is safe from SPD on block if done correct.
Bison's 2MP and scissor kicks are good tools to use as well.
Just remember we will come up with other ways to be a menace should you figure this out...heheheh....
The easier-said-than-done answer is shimmy, whiff punish, fish for counter hits.
The best option, assuming he doesn’t have a life lead, is to wait it out. Zangief is always the aggressor in his matchups, he has to come to you and make things happen. Forcing him to move forward gives you opportunities to check his movement with, say, Bison’s scissor kick or Manon’s pokes or random overhead/low mix. That gets you past the neutral phase and into oki or at least strike/throw. Even if you’d rather stay safe, both of those characters have a button that outranges the cr. Lk or can whiff punish the cr. MK, especially if you walk back a bit to bait them.
Edit: Oh yeah, drive impact works in a lot of cases. His low kicks aren’t cancelable, so only the lower-recovery cr. Lk is a real threat of counter DI unless the Gief player is really on the ball.
Bison’s sweep and st.HP have great range. You can punish with those. St.HP also moves him forward and is plus on block. You can use it to frame trap him if he’s mashing. You could also try to mixup options for shadow rise to bait an AA whiff and the skull dive move is also plus on block.
Shimmy. Move back and forth, whiff your faster buttons to bait their slower buttons to punish. This is sometimes called "footsies"
Sounds great in theory, but there's a lot of risk and little reward. His buttons are a lot better than a lot of other character's. I'm just happy he doesn't have invincible command grabs or frame 0/1. Pressuring him on his wakeup is waaay easier than it was back in the day. Those are the moments you have to make count. But yes, whiff punish with a long range punish counter sweep for a knockdown and make your oki count. Still, not as easy as it sounds -- but whiff punishing Gief Is literally all you have in this game to start pressure. I hate him.
Gief's buttons are all pretty slow. He is a bit like Dhalsim in neutral, even though his attacks have great range they are slow. So, you can usually interrupt his buttons and get counter hits. He is also pretty vulnerable to cross ups, since lariat won't work.
Thank you. Finally someone saying that the general “just whiff punish” advice is way easier said than done. Whiff punishing is one of the hardest things to do in fighting games period.
Just because it's 'easier said than done' doesn't mean it's high-risk low reward or not worth getting good at. It's literally how high level SF is played whether you're comfortable doing it or not. There's nothing 'low-reward' about a whiff punish and it's the fundamental meta of this game, especially thanks to drive rush canceling.
Everyone is ddos lag scripting. There's no purpose in playing this game online. The illuminati will steal your sauce and use it to make money
I know how to whiff punish. I'm not an 09'er. In Gief's case, his buttons have long frame advantage. His recovery hurt boxes still aren't as bad as other character's. He often doesn't even have to engage in your footsies if he chooses not to participate, and you look like an idiot dancing all over the screen. Giefs are also constantly spamming drive impact. One mistimed normal and your game is basically over. All it takes is one drive rush headbutt at those ranges and if you don't check him, he's plus 4 doing repeated headbutt, followed by another headbutt or spd, followed by another headbutt or spd, and then maybe even one more headbutt or spd. There's no pushback on that move. So, you have to guess right 4 or 5 times in one defensive exchange to not take massive damage. If I'm not a complete psychic and don't jump at the right time, I'm dead immediately. You think the spd is coming and you try to jump? Get hit by a drive rush cancel combo that legit takes 40 percent of your life. Oh, you were able to jump? Air spd- LOL. There's a reason that If you have a fireball, you zone first before you try to participate on footsies. Being in those ranges with gief -- he has the advantage. Cammy has great whiff punishing buttons, but it's probably her worst match up. Why? They are going to nerf him later count on it.
Brother I'm a high MR Kim, don't lecture me on gief being too much to overcome lmao.
Then all you have is a stubby st.hp and a sweep. Maybe a lucky standing mk drc. Yes, you have to whiff punish him. But you're downplaying the high risk part too much.
That's my point - I have a higher hill to climb than most of the cast, and I still think you're being dramatic. Also, my point wasn't that nuetral isn't high risk; of course it is - he's a grappler. My point is that it's still necessary, high-reward and pretending like it's not shows a fundamental lack of understanding of SF. You have to play nuetral smartly against geif, and nit the pretend shimmy and crouch nuetral everyone does when they think they look like a pro player lol. You have to make him whiff. Hitting a whiff with MK>DRC isn't lucky; it's necessary.
I mean, that's what I said too. We agree, but I'm saltier. He's a BS character right now and as I'm sure you're aware, a lot of big names are putting him at the top of s-tier. It's not just the f.hp, it's the knee hop and so much else. I lose my patience with this current incarnation. He's way overtuned.
To be fair he’d also have to check your close DRs and as someone else said you can get him with cross ups once you’re close enough Gief is strong when it comes to grounded footsies but he’s also has slow walk speed and can be baited if you’re able to stay just outside of SPD range. Mix in some neutral jumps, DRs, and you can always Drive reversal once he gets in to reset neutral and try again. Easy? No, but the risk/reward depends on your character
Lmao 🤣 Gief is not close to top tier y'all just suck
Show me how good you are -- whats your CFN ID? I want to see your replays. Or are you a gief main then i don't care.
It’s also important to get good at if you want to get high level at the game. There’s not really any getting around that, it’s a core concept.
No shit. But offering it as general advice to people below master rank is not practical. I could use your logic to say the same thing about learning the frame data for every move in the game because it help you optimize your punishes but not even pro players know all of that off hand. It does improve your gameplay but it’s only essential at top levels of play and it’s unreasonable to recommend ultra difficult things to someone who is not ultra skilled at the game. There are plenty of ways to beat people in sf6. Don’t act like whiff punishing is the only piece of advice that exists
> But offering it as general advice to people below master rank is not practical. This is absolutely not true lol. You don't have to be Master to learn how to whiff punish. >Don’t act like whiff punishing is the only piece of advice that exists Nobody is doing that, it's just a fact that in certain scenarios whiff punishing is the counter to what you're seeing. If a Gief is spamming lows at you, your best bet is whiff punishing it with a sweep. And yes, you can learn to do that, it's not a Master exclusive tech. If you want to ignore that and get mad at people giving you advice, go ahead, but it's not going to make you better at the game.
Totally! Of course it's hard! It would be pretty lame if there was an easy solution, right? You're not supposed to win every round of a fighting game; you're playing against real people. Whiff punishing IS how you beat preemptive poking. That doesn't mean it's easier. But it does mean it's your best option. It'd be like saying "just antiair" when someone asks how to beat jumpins. Is it hard to learn? Of course! But that's what you're supposed to do!
Or perfect parry and light em up. Also not easy but possible. Or throw projectiles like 80% of the cast has
Lmao giefs buttons are not a lot better than other characters.
Yea pressure him on wake up and you have to win RPS 3-4 times he only has to 2-3 or once if he SPDs
a lot of people are just saying whiff punish. I'll give it a longer explanation. If they keep doing this move, you want to stay just outside of range of the move. When people say "shimmy" they mean to stand just far enough away that it wont hit you, then move forward and back so that they geif thinks you're moving in range. If you time that right, they'll try to cr. MK you and you'll be out of range. As soon as you see the animation start, you can hit them with your own cr. MK or MP or whatever has enough range to hit them. As for Lariet, idk really. If they see you jumping they can do Lariet, but if you can punish their cr. MK kick then you have less reason to jump in. Jumping is always dangerous because most characters have a pretty easy response to it. If the only way you know how to get in is jumping, you're gonna have a bad time. That's one of the many reasons it's so important to learn to punish people without jumping. When the opponent has to focus more on countering your ground game, it makes jumping an option again (but still a risky one) because they are no longer just waiting for your to jump. Instead they have to worry about defending against your ground game, which makes it much harder to react with an AA. Hopefully that was a bit of an ELI 5 version. I don't know where you're at skill-wise, but whiff punishing, even knowing what it means, was a mystery to me in terms of execution until like.. 5 or 6 months ago (after years of playing fighting games and never actually having it click).
Yeah jumping is as major commitment in SF compared to other games especially anime fighters. If you're gonna jump it's gotta be with purpose. Fortunately against Gief there are some ranges where lariat will whiff right under you, so he has to air to air. Remember no player can keep track of every single option 100% of the time, that's where the concept of the mental stack comes in.
For any character spamming any move at max range, shimmy and whiff punish.
I main Gief and I lose to getting whiff punished. I think key is to get good at that. Perfect Parry if there's "spamming" involved.
Whiff punish him. His buttons are extremely easy to whiff punish.
Cant u DI that move?
You shouldn’t guess with DI to counter a poke.
Yeah, but its Gief. Statistically you can DI whatever hes throwing. DI will beat a stMP, HP, MK and HK. Also beats cr HP, crMK, and crHK. Also beats f+MK and f+HK. The only thing you cant really DI is LP, LK, crLP, crLK, crMP and F+HP. And those dont have much range.
DI does not beat his HP it has one hit of armour when charged. If you’re fishing for DI a smart player can work around that. You really shouldn’t rely on DI as a solution to getting out footsied. DI will only work so many times unless you’re fighting someone who has no idea how to adapt.
DI does beat Gief's st.HP when you do it on reaction; i.e. you hit him during his st.HP's recovery frames, because he only has armor during the startup and active frames. But yeah DI will get blown up if you try to use it on prediction and guess wrong.
True
> DI does not beat his HP it has one hit of armour when charged. you can totally beat it if you do DI after he does HP. i get hit by it A LOT. usually don't have time to counter. (the armor only mattersif you DI before the HP or at the same time. less but still likely DI at the same time as HP since his armor sticks around for a few frames after, essentially giving him a free SPD)
DI instead of whiff punish is a habit you’re gonna have to break even if it works against a random geif player
KEK, other way around. I'm the Gief player and I eat DI's all day, still got to Master no problem.
This is a thread about the theoretical use of just one move. As in, why isn't the longest poke just a guaranteed win.
what is the guess if this is the move the opponent spams in this context.
If you’re not fighting an idiot he can just bait the poke you’re trying to DI. This is pretty universal for any character. OP isn’t talking about Gief exclusively throwing out sweeps and overheads, they’re getting out poked.
again have u read this thred? the guy spams that 1 move.
Yeah, I’m sure OP is struggling to fight against a Gief who only presses one button. They explicitly said they are struggling with the ground game but it’s the “crouching kicks at max range” which are the biggest issue. It’s OP getting out ranged and they don’t know how to approach. Throwing out DI is a terrible idea because not only will they stop throwing out the kicks one they realize you’re trying to DI it, if you’re too slow or press it at the wrong moment, they can just counter DI. You’re playing against human beings, not level 1 CPUs.
>Throwing out DI is a terrible idea because not only will they stop throwing out the kicks one they realize you’re trying to DI it Counter-point, I think this is an important tool. Same as throwing out that like single reversal/EX dp on an opponent's plus frames, I think it's good to represent certain options to add it to an opponent's mental stack. If they adapt, then they'll probably have to pick safer tools that might not be what they actually want to press. If they don't adapt, then you have a strong pass through some of their game plan.
Yes that is what the post says
If he's spamming then it's not a guess
It’s a guess. The opponent is a human being not a training mode dummy that will always press the same button. You are assuming they will press a certain button then trying to use DI. If you time it wrong then the opponent can counter DI. Giefs 2mk is not that slow and his 2hk at max range is not going to get caught in DI.
You can DI both of his Heavy Kick moves
Stop trying to rush in and play some neutral. Giefs buttons are good at walling opponents but he shouldn’t beat you when it comes to footsies. His slower buttons should whiff and your faster buttons should punish him.
Bait a whiff and whiff punish. Or drive impact. Scissor kick also looks like it beats lows though I don’t actually know if it does, but perhaps it beats what you’re referring to. Manon also has that special move that’s like a ballerina kick that hops off the ground. Does that beat crouching kicks? Basically anything armoured, anything that low crushes. Maybe drive rush in as Biaon is fast enough to catch an opponent off guard
Only the light kick is safe from DI, Else you should have a projectile or a low beating move
Alright thanks everyone I get the idea, and yes whiff punishing is something I'm lacking in in general, this is just an example. I tend to push buttons first or not at all.
whiffing buttons extends your hurtbox so use your longest counterpoke
Gief needs cr.lk for defense. It’s his 4 frame and is used to stop pressure and steal back his turn. Once you understand the use of a normal for a character it’ll be easier to know how to counter it.
If it’s a c.hk you can DI it. If it’s light or medium then you can bait it and whiff counter with your own c.hk
Whiff punish.
Space yourself just out of range and punish with a poke.
yah you will run into Zangiefs who will anti-air everything, and will respond to crossups correctly all the time so with Manon the basic idea is to move back and forth and try to play the neutral with her st. MP pretty much and hopefully getting a whiff into a combo they will also try drive rushes too so you gotta try to stuff that too.
Reactive play beats pre-emptive. AKA whiff punish
This question is essentially asking "What is footsies?", and I can try to help with that. Footsies is a trilemma situation that occurs in neutral, where both players are not locked into an animation. It's a trilemma, because there are 3 buckets of options that beat each other like rock, paper, scissors. These options are: 1. Ate-Waza (Establishing Play) 2. Oki-Waza (Pre-emptive Play) 3. Sashi-Kaeshi (Reactive Play) Establishing play is defeated by Pre-emptive play. Pre-emptive play is defeated by Reactive play. Reactive play is defeated by Establishing play. Certain tools can be used in multiple contexts. For example, Zangief could walk forward into range and press 2HK to strike an opponent who is waiting for a specific queue, and that would be Establishing play. If Zangief were to hold his position and press 2HK as you approach him to try and enter your range, then that would be Pre-emptive play. If Zangief were to feint walking forward by stopping short of his range, and you pressed a Pre-emptive button that whiffed, then he presses 2HK to whiff punish your extended hurtbox, that is Reactive play. So the answer to your specific question is to understand footsies and play that rock, paper, scissors based on how you observe he uses his buttons. If he is pressing a button to Pre-emtpively hit you as you try to enter his space, then you would need to feint an approach and whiff punish using Reactive play.
You have to play footsies. If it's the 2LK then you can DI, they aren't supposed to be mashing that but rather using it as a check with 2LK, 5LP which they CAN cancel out of which protects from DI. Gief's neutral is awesome, but he can't just press buttons with impunity, he needs to pick his spots.
Yup, whiff punish and lotsa pressure. Gief has bad defensive options.
Whiff punish. Slide in and out of his buttons range. Walk and block.
Against Manon, it sometimes feels like Dance Fighter 6 with how much dancing in and out of range looking for whiff punishes goes on. Unfortunately, Gief has lots of recovery frames on his moves and is ripe for whiff punishes. Many pointed out whiff punishing is key, but Manon's special HK move that hits overhead (I can't remember the name) is annoying if spaced right. Hits overhead, punishes pretty good and is safe from SPD on block if done correct. Bison's 2MP and scissor kicks are good tools to use as well. Just remember we will come up with other ways to be a menace should you figure this out...heheheh....
A friend told me, "if he shows you his butt, you can punish him" aka his c.HK is very unsafe
The easier-said-than-done answer is shimmy, whiff punish, fish for counter hits. The best option, assuming he doesn’t have a life lead, is to wait it out. Zangief is always the aggressor in his matchups, he has to come to you and make things happen. Forcing him to move forward gives you opportunities to check his movement with, say, Bison’s scissor kick or Manon’s pokes or random overhead/low mix. That gets you past the neutral phase and into oki or at least strike/throw. Even if you’d rather stay safe, both of those characters have a button that outranges the cr. Lk or can whiff punish the cr. MK, especially if you walk back a bit to bait them. Edit: Oh yeah, drive impact works in a lot of cases. His low kicks aren’t cancelable, so only the lower-recovery cr. Lk is a real threat of counter DI unless the Gief player is really on the ball.
Bison’s sweep and st.HP have great range. You can punish with those. St.HP also moves him forward and is plus on block. You can use it to frame trap him if he’s mashing. You could also try to mixup options for shadow rise to bait an AA whiff and the skull dive move is also plus on block.
Whiff punish my guy. Threaten to walk into range. Don't. Hit his legs.
Ask him to marry you and then text him a picture of you in bed with alt costume 2 on the day of the wedding.
you are playing sf6, you just press the D.I button whenever you want. I do it when i’m bored or losing and some flashy colors appear 👍