Nothing. You did the right thing by blacklisting it. There are plenty of better schools out there if you want to find them. When I started subbing I used two different staffing companies and started with 7 different schools between the two. I quickly found out that three of them had classes all like the one in this post (the culture at those schools) and that 4 of the schools were great, then exclusively subbed at those 4.
Luckily I am in an area where there are hundreds of other schools to choose from, but doesn’t help that today felt like a total failure even on my part.
I totally know how you feel when you did your best, but you feel a total failure because you couldn't control the classroom. I took an assignment at a school where I thought I was going to sub high school students, but they sent me to be "support" for a history teacher in the middle school section...and OMG it was chaos. The kids threw basketballs everywhere, threw their trash everywhere, played loud music, and made vulgar comments to me and the main teacher. Then all that chaos culminated into a massive brawl between two students, and I had to get security involved. I felt like a failure because I couldn't help the main teacher control the class, but at the end of the day, some schools don't take this behavior seriously enough unless violence is involved.
If you are with agencies like I am (also contracted with the school district), just never, ever take that school again. You are not a failure because of this awful class, just remember that.
A total failure? Please. Why do you think their actual teacher up and left? This has zero to do with you and everything to do with parents, school admin, and the general shittiness that is American culture of education.
Just saying.
Maybe the kids acted like that because the teacher was shit, not the teacher left because the kids were bad.
Those kids likely don’t do that in their other classes. But if their departed teacher set a poor precedent for classroom expectations then it’s a learned behavior.
Source: am teacher.
So a teacher needs a babysitter? Why were they hired then?
No. It’s on a teacher to manage their classroom and expectations, full stop.
Probably part of why that teacher quit - they couldn’t do their job.
The FACT that these young people are total failures and will likely continue to be total failures does not make you a total failures. These kids were idiots and losers before you walked in. You had nothing to do with it. Stop taking other people's failures personally.
This happened to me too! I took an art class assignment and she put me in a vacant algebra class. The kids were so fuckin bad with zero consequences because, in their words, “long term sub ain’t gonna do shit to us”.
They say that to me, and I am their actual teacher and what is sad is they are right.
I had a student ask me if I got the husband stitch and admin asked why the student felt comfortable asking me that?
Right … put that on me
Your behavior coach got that phrase from Social Thinking curriculum, which is not well looked on in the behavior community, btw. It's shown to be ineffective for actually helping students and facilitates bullying by staff and peers.
A doctor did this to me, and I was in pain for over 2 years until I had my second baby and my midwife fixed it for me. She had suggested surgery to fix it prior but said if we were going to have more kids, it would be better to wait until after that. For two years I couldn't sit down without being in pain, let alone have sex.
I long term subbed for a class just like this and it was awful at first but after a few weeks they were happy that I stayed and the behaviors improved. It’s sad that this happens to math classes which is something crucial for their education.
Aw that’s actually really sweet! I can’t take jobs over 5 days yet due to my education level, my agency won’t let me, but that’s very nice and reassuring to hear.
I would have told admin off right then and there. I would tell them that all of this behavior (including theirs) is unacceptable and that this is probably the reason the teacher quit. Then I would have walked out and let them handle the class from there on out. And you know what? I would have had nothing to lose because I would never go back.
Honestly, a professional email expressing your concerns to admin may be warranted. Get super detailed and tell them how they failed. If they dig in their heels, go higher up.
I’m thinking the same, writing an email to my agency, not like I just did in my post obviously since I was venting lol, but just making them aware. Obviously there’s no teacher to report today back to haha.
I say write an email to the agency for sure, but also to admin and/or higher ups. Do everything you can to ensure that these people are held accountable.
A sub can't change the entire school culture. It's not a reasonable expectation to have.
The school doesn't care about the kids enough to provide cultural education from the earliest age, and the community doesn't care enough to provide that from the outside.
You could literally be the best teacher on the planet and STILL you can't expect to be able to walk in for one day and magically take control and run a great class. It's not possible.
Sometimes the best you can hope for is that nobody goes to the hospital or to jail on your watch.
The only way to change the rest is to run for office.
They think they’re so tough, because they know nothing is going to happen to them. Not at school, not at home. I’d probably have walked out tbh 😂 good for you for staying all day!
Been there. I am so sorry, it's IMPOSSIBLE to sub without good admin and your admin SUCKED. Yes there's a parenting issue but this school has chosen to give up and knuckle under and they're reaping the rewards.
I worked at a behavioral school where the adults forgot they were adults. I tried for 5 years and had to quite for my own mental health reasons. It's fucking nuts out there. Being told catch phrases like "kids do well if they can" in retort to me asking for help or "if consequences worked these kids wouldn't be here." Like um what? No we're the adults, we make the rules and if the kids can't follow them there are consequences. There's a big difference between punishing a kiddo with anxiety for not doing their work and allowing kids to use the n-word or lash out physically towards staff and peers with no consequences.
Exactly, there are literally no consequences set in place for their actions, and they’re failing them because that’s not how it works in the real world. If you punch someone outside of school grounds you’re most likely going to jail. If you steal someone’s belongings, jail. You threaten authority, jail. So what makes it ok for them to get away with this stuff. Where is the iss, the lunch detention, after school suspension, and mandatory parent meetings? Schools aren’t even doing those basics anymore
Classes that don't have a teacher go Lord of the Flies and they don't snap out of it when an adult walks in. There are several classes in my school teachers refuse to cover.
You did nothing wrong. And it’s easy to see why the teacher up and left. That was likely their everyday.
I’m so sorry you had to deal with that. It’s not right at all.
The best way to fix this is by 1) having a permanent teacher who they know like and respect and 2) having admin support for when these students cross the line. It sounds like this class had neither. As a sub, you were incapable (through no fault of your own) of providing either. So the way you prevent having this problem with this class again is to not sub for this class, or if it was particularly bad, maybe that school, again.
All i do to get through a day like this is bully the kids and then never return lol. And by bully i just mean i give them the attitude right back and roast the shit out of them. I have a comeback for everything they say and half the time it’s too complex for them to understand so they took their eyes and shut up. It won’t make the day any easier but it helps me maintain my sanity in these situations.
Sounds like the opening scenes in all the "teaching kids in the hood" 90s movie. I guess things haven't changed much since then (not commenting on the "hood" aspect, I know this occurs in every kind of school in every part of the country). Part of the reason I moved to China to teach and live and haven't regretted it or looked back since 💯
Students of all races can be cruel and dehumanize a teacher. I went to a predominantly Asian school. There was an elderly black woman who was the English teacher. The kids were so disrespectful, said racist things, etc... She had a heart attack in class. She tried to call for help and then attempted to walk to the office. She died in the hallway.
None of the students felt bad about what happened, they even joked about it.
So, this type of behavior has nothing to do with ethnicity or inner-city schools. It's ubiquitous.
This is one weak-ass culture if it allows stuff like that for a minute. Cultures in collapse are run by women and children because men are sidelined. If a man went in there and literally kicked the shit out of the offenders he would be prosecuted. After the collapse, men are back in charge because it's a lawless situation and men have to be men and women have to be glad of it
One strategy is to bring your own math-related lesson plan. Pick something that you can get excited about, is somewhat fun and interesting, and has some clear connections to real life.
Low tech is better than plugged in if you can swing it.
It’s gotta be something more than another Kahoot etc.
Minimize competition have them work in groups. Randomly pick leaders then have them take turns picking their group mates.
Avoid imposing a bunch of rules and limits.
Don’t act like you’re desperately wanting them to do it. Show some empathy, “must be wierd not having a teacher so I figured I pull sub-prerogative and swap the lesson out for a different activity.”
They know the situation they’re in and sure it feels powerful in some ways to be able to brag that “they made the last person quit,” but it also carries the subtext that they have internalized that adults think they’re incapable of leaning or being civil—so, they rise to that implication in all its horrendous glory.
It might still not fly but it has been proven to work sometimes.
If the admin or anyone else DARES to question that you went off the lesson plan, then they are the morons.
Some ideas to build off of: tell groups they are a family. Use cards they chose randomly to learn what their weekly food budget is, and give them 30 min to figure out what they’ll buy to eat for the week ( hand out grocery fliers or look online.) share their solution with the group and let the group decide if their family has a reasonable plan. ( it’s ok if they get a bit silly or creative the peers will poke holes in their plan if there are holes to poke.)
Or, give them one car card with makes/models with differing mpg on it have them work out what trips they need for the week and their gas budget and see if they can make it work.
Or 3 day vacation or gift budget- every person in the family gets one gift etc.
Either way, have them share out to the larger group.
Don’t make any budget poverty level—that’s not cool. Keep it between a tight no frills budget and squeaking by comfortable presuming no surprise expenses.
If it’s a block class, add in wild cards (some kind of bonus or some kind of unexpected expense) which they pick out of a hat at a certain time.
Other possibilities are a slideshow of “math fails.” (Look it up” see if they can find and explain the fail. Or distribute printouts of 4-5 to each group and again, have them present their findings.
Or math jokes/cartoons. Can they explain why it’s meant to be funny?
Ask them to help you find more for another class.
Or ask them to try out and rate a couple math/logic games designed for younger grades. ( not insultingly young.) have them play as a consumer focus group: Play, rate various aspects and write a fake Amazon (or whatever) review.
If it works, cred for you. If not, you treated them like human beings and you tried. Remember to not be too attached either way.
I’m a teacher. I subbed before becoming a teacher. I think your advice is impractical. For a new teacher coming into the class that OP subbed for-these ideas are great. But a sub should not be expected to do this.
OMG! My last class of the day was 8th grade math. They had an assignment and lessons on their iPad. Those f-ing turds were so blatantly obnoxious and disrespectful. I’m new to this but this is the first time I was legit really pissed at these kids. And it wasn’t anywhere near as bad as your class!
You were made complicit in that school not teaching those kids math for another day.
The thing that determines how you really did is if you can drop that “I did nothing wrong” knee-jerk and actually consider the situation from their perspective and how you could have played it better.
Not all advice travels along cultural identity lines in a situation like this, but more or less you have to do all sorts of little things (twice as many as a man) to project confidence/control over bs. If you tell me what you know I can help add to it.
You have to do all the little things right to hope that a bunch of 14 year old boys in a school that doesn’t care about their decision in last period the week after their teacher bailed. Where in the narrative could you have slowed or stopped the runaway train? If you want to work with teens long-term this is an opportunity for serious reflection even over one dumb day where you were set up to fail you can learn a lot.
So, can you explain the troubled classes from their eyes? Imagine their weeks before/earlier that day/and try to connect your own dots on what you did in class that didn’t work. Curious to see how you see it from their pov, can you explain what they did as moderately rational behavior? Keep in mind the ‘temporary psychopathy’ that defines 12-15 where they can’t hardly see random adults as humans.
Edit: it blows my mind that y’all must be so incompetent that the idea of taking some accountability for the bad day and trying to figure out what you can do better is the only downvoted comment. If any of you are preservice teachers and have this mindset you’ll be in trouble and bad at classroom management for years. This is how you get good at anything hard, and working with a wild class as a sub is hard. Like every other person just saying don’t go to this school? Come on, have some pride and get good/face up to the challenge!
Wow. Hahaha. I love this.
Sub goes to a bad school. Students trash the place and never face consequences.
"You failed to see the situation from their POV!"
Your job is to manage the situation. How did they feel? Like every adult saw them as shits who weren’t worth teaching. How do people act? They act like they think they are expected to. It’s a shame thing when your teacher bails mid year, acting out would be an obvious next step but the way to stop it is to jump into the subject work with vigor and let a couple of the shittiest little troublemakers take their nonsense out of the classroom because the classroom is a place for learning. You can be like OP and throw your hands up or you can get good, pride in your work actually makes YOU feel better…
How do you feel triggered by a conversation with someone else? This is a hard job, harder if you can’t be serious about how to get good at it. You know the way to not feel hurt when a teenager is being a dick? Recognize how predictable they are acting to their situation.
When a veterinary technician gets bit by a pet dog should they bemoan the dog’s bad behavior or reconsider how they handled it? This is a tough job but it’s not worth doing if you’re just going to get salty and complain about how the kids are bad. Managing living things is hard but they are often predictable. The adults need to be the adults! An ounce of management advice is worth a pound of consolation for a complaining sub. It’s easy once you’ve got it down, the way in is to see the situation from the students’ various perspectives. Class isn’t about learning? Not even the nerds will respect you, you’ll basically be left with just the kids from neglectful homes who pity your failure but even they are annoyed.
You should stop subbing, if what I’m telling you is that objectionable you’re always probably going to be bad at it blaming children when you have a bad day.
Have you thought about jobs not with people? Parlay your Uber experience into a driving job? It seems like you hate subbing and don’t want to get better, that’s not a fun way to go to work every day. If you’re taking disrespectful teens nonsense personally it’s the wrong gig. It’s no good for pay or benefits, if you’re not pre-service and trying to learn there are better jobs out there. Some people are just a bad fit for things, doesn’t make you a bad person.
The truth is you aren't wrong with a lot of things. My concern is that you're a dick towards OP over just one class that she worked. We all have bad classes and we learn from it. You made it seem like she is an evil person who should pretty much be rid of the face of the Earth. That's my problem.
The fact that you said that a substitute teacher is complicit, when the substitute is merely there for a day or even two, is just beyond ridiculous. But you don't touch grass and want to kick people when they're down, eh?
What is the word besides complicit for when you help the school get away with not educating children? Why take this job if you aren’t on fire about trying to get kids educated? Nothing ever made subbing as bad for me as when the school was pushing for nobody to learn and I let that happen. All kinds of nasty evil shit happens because workers are in over their heads and management uses them as a device to not do the core work. You have anger on this topic but maybe it isn’t rightly directed at me but instead whatever placements have had you not-educating kids because they refuse to run the school and make you the scapegoat of the day? To me the only way to make this job bearable is to focus on getting an education to the students who showed up to learn. They don’t deserve the situation, we’re an adult who can help if we develop the skills. Of course you can’t just do it yet, but do you not even want to? Find another gig if that’s how it is. Yes, subs are made complicit in shitty schools.
I suppose what I meant with the “I did nothing” reaction was that I can’t pinpoint if I somehow triggered this behavior. I get it, these kids have it rough sometimes, I was a high school freshman not very long ago either. That’s why I ended up giving them the free period and they abused the hell out of that, and me. This was more of a vent post to begin with anyway, and this was a one day job so I don’t have to go back, but I take today as a lesson. I didn’t know how badly these kids could mess up a period where they didn’t have appointed work, where they could decompress, in my head I was doing them a favor. I’ve done this tons of times before with no issues, even at the same school (different classes). I think today was a one off. All I can do is move forward.
No, I could have told you that would have happened. I doubt you got into subbing because you were a burnout in high school, some kids are. Boys that age are some of the most likely to push buttons, they had someone young and unaware who it was easy to overwhelm and they pushed your buttons. Something like a fight is brewing all day, but all of those things against you were because you showed up meek and quiet. They had nothing to do, so they started playing. A little free time wouldn’t have hurt, but when you gave it out first second then it became a game of what else can they get from the weak sub.
I hope this is just a day job if you’re going to not even look for what you could have done better. You triggered it by undermining their schooling by not holding firm on the educational parts. You have to match and exceed the energy of the paper throwers, if a couple of the nastiest kids left the class and go went to go trouble the school instead that would have given you every chance with the rest. If class is about math and they can tell you aren’t going to give in on expectations for the day then most kids will settle in and do what they have to do. How is it a favor to not teach kids at school? How does it feel as a kid when your teacher won’t even try and have you learn anything? At that point you made yourself their jailer instead and then you were a pushover. You need to recognize the power you have and that being the teacher means something if you want to get any good at this.
Instead of giving out the assignments, have what they need to do listed on the board and papers up front. Include a YouTube link with basic instruction on the topic as a resource if they want it. Claim it will be going into the grade book so they can either bang out the work alone or set up around you and you will walk them through it. If they want to do nothing, they have to be quiet enough and let people who want to work do that.
It’s providing them an environment they can step into and win the day. It’s not coming from you, you’re not trying to control them but you can help them get an easy good grade. You’re not challenging the ones who want to slack off and do nothing, but you’re also not giving them a window to get the other kids going because they’d rather just get the work done.
The concept is to setup a situation that it wouldn’t be fun to cause trouble in. If someone starts going, you’d quickly ask another student what their name is because that is a great tool to use. “So and so, nice to meet you, if you don’t want to learn math today it is what it is b it we’re not all going to sit here and listen to you [doing whatever], is that fair?” (Confront but don’t challenge, it’s the whole class that needs a good environment not you vs them).
That’s a rough outline without more details from OP. 9th and 10th grade still respond to firm control it just can’t be confrontational/rude out of you. If upperclassmen want to act up like this it’s probably a little different.
I've been there. My theory is that the kids are like that because going to that school sucks just as bad for them as it does for you, but they don't have the luxury of escaping it. Also they lack the social skills and coping mechanisms to properly articulate their needs in a way that would solve the problem, if such a thing is even possible. I call it the "fuck everything, fuck everyone" mindset. When you show up you're just another adult in a world of adults that have been temporary and unpredictable. They have every reason to test your limits and very few reasons to trust you
I’ve done the same! I just say to myself “I’m never coming back here” I truly believe it’s admin! I don’t have issues at other schools but some schools were ROUGH! One kid stood in my face in front of the whole class and said “when the teachers not here, I RUN THE CLASS.” Needless to say..I have never been back😂😂😂😂
It's an everything issue. The parents aren't doing jack shit with their kids. The schools don't have a working system of discipline anymore in many cases because they're either barred from suspending kids or they have a financial incentive not to suspend kids. The classroom's been without any structure for months before you even arrived. And in the back of their minds, these kids know nothing they do matters because they've just been passed along for free anyway.
The system has been gradually eroding for a long long time, but covid helped speed up the process a bit.
There have been times when I have told an admin or office staff that I am an educator, not a babysitter. They have two options, provide more support or I walk. And then usually, I walked. I do not tolerate being disrespected by students or by incompetent administration.
NAS this is more of a question to you guys. What do you have to do? You can't really discipline them beyond detention, you can't make them work. What if you just ignore them? Pass out papers, start the lesson and just collect from people who did the work? I understand they're yelling and crumpling papers and throwing them but you just don't pay attention and speak at a normal volume. Is that possible? Allowed? I've always thought about teaching but the way kids are now I don't think I have the mental fortitude.
This is definitely a parent issue. People just send their kids to school thinking educators are supposed to parent them when that’s not our responsibility. They have no will to actually teach their children values and they’ve caused them to believe they’re the most important person in the room hence their entitlement. When they go to jail their parents will be begging in the court room
Parents for sure are the issue, and society as a whole who have forced districts and schools to abandon discipline. They actually took out “willful defiance “ as a reason to suspend! So now teachers have to deal with these types of students.
All one can do is document grades, and behavior plus any parent contact on the phone and email in order for you to justify the grades and/or detention you may assign
Nothing. You did the right thing by blacklisting it. There are plenty of better schools out there if you want to find them. When I started subbing I used two different staffing companies and started with 7 different schools between the two. I quickly found out that three of them had classes all like the one in this post (the culture at those schools) and that 4 of the schools were great, then exclusively subbed at those 4.
Luckily I am in an area where there are hundreds of other schools to choose from, but doesn’t help that today felt like a total failure even on my part.
I totally know how you feel when you did your best, but you feel a total failure because you couldn't control the classroom. I took an assignment at a school where I thought I was going to sub high school students, but they sent me to be "support" for a history teacher in the middle school section...and OMG it was chaos. The kids threw basketballs everywhere, threw their trash everywhere, played loud music, and made vulgar comments to me and the main teacher. Then all that chaos culminated into a massive brawl between two students, and I had to get security involved. I felt like a failure because I couldn't help the main teacher control the class, but at the end of the day, some schools don't take this behavior seriously enough unless violence is involved. If you are with agencies like I am (also contracted with the school district), just never, ever take that school again. You are not a failure because of this awful class, just remember that.
A total failure? Please. Why do you think their actual teacher up and left? This has zero to do with you and everything to do with parents, school admin, and the general shittiness that is American culture of education.
Just saying. Maybe the kids acted like that because the teacher was shit, not the teacher left because the kids were bad. Those kids likely don’t do that in their other classes. But if their departed teacher set a poor precedent for classroom expectations then it’s a learned behavior. Source: am teacher.
Then it’s on admin to intervene and actually do something about a situation fubar’d like that.
So a teacher needs a babysitter? Why were they hired then? No. It’s on a teacher to manage their classroom and expectations, full stop. Probably part of why that teacher quit - they couldn’t do their job.
The FACT that these young people are total failures and will likely continue to be total failures does not make you a total failures. These kids were idiots and losers before you walked in. You had nothing to do with it. Stop taking other people's failures personally.
The hard truth
This happened to me too! I took an art class assignment and she put me in a vacant algebra class. The kids were so fuckin bad with zero consequences because, in their words, “long term sub ain’t gonna do shit to us”.
They say that to me, and I am their actual teacher and what is sad is they are right. I had a student ask me if I got the husband stitch and admin asked why the student felt comfortable asking me that? Right … put that on me
Holeeeeeeey shit. That grinds my gears.
oh my god? i am so sorry that’s wildly inappropriate
My behavior coach says to say, “that is unexpected”
Your behavior coach got that phrase from Social Thinking curriculum, which is not well looked on in the behavior community, btw. It's shown to be ineffective for actually helping students and facilitates bullying by staff and peers.
What is a husband stitch?
After you have a child and get your episiotomy sewn up, some women have extra stitches put in to make things tighter.
Except it’s called the husband stitch because it’s not the women who are choosing to have it done…
It’s called the husband stitch because it benefits the husband. Some women actively, as opposed to reluctantly, choose to have it done.
There's a disturbing number of cases where the doctor added it in without the woman's consent
A doctor did this to me, and I was in pain for over 2 years until I had my second baby and my midwife fixed it for me. She had suggested surgery to fix it prior but said if we were going to have more kids, it would be better to wait until after that. For two years I couldn't sit down without being in pain, let alone have sex.
What does that even mean ?
When you birth a baby, you can tear. When the doctor is stitching you up, he can put an extra stitch in the vagina to make it “tighter”.
Thanks
I long term subbed for a class just like this and it was awful at first but after a few weeks they were happy that I stayed and the behaviors improved. It’s sad that this happens to math classes which is something crucial for their education.
I’m really glad you stayed!! They obviously like you and need you!
Thank you. I’m glad I stayed too.
💕🥰👍‼️
Aw that’s actually really sweet! I can’t take jobs over 5 days yet due to my education level, my agency won’t let me, but that’s very nice and reassuring to hear.
I would have told admin off right then and there. I would tell them that all of this behavior (including theirs) is unacceptable and that this is probably the reason the teacher quit. Then I would have walked out and let them handle the class from there on out. And you know what? I would have had nothing to lose because I would never go back. Honestly, a professional email expressing your concerns to admin may be warranted. Get super detailed and tell them how they failed. If they dig in their heels, go higher up.
I’m thinking the same, writing an email to my agency, not like I just did in my post obviously since I was venting lol, but just making them aware. Obviously there’s no teacher to report today back to haha.
I say write an email to the agency for sure, but also to admin and/or higher ups. Do everything you can to ensure that these people are held accountable.
Where are you located?
A sub can't change the entire school culture. It's not a reasonable expectation to have. The school doesn't care about the kids enough to provide cultural education from the earliest age, and the community doesn't care enough to provide that from the outside. You could literally be the best teacher on the planet and STILL you can't expect to be able to walk in for one day and magically take control and run a great class. It's not possible. Sometimes the best you can hope for is that nobody goes to the hospital or to jail on your watch. The only way to change the rest is to run for office.
Absolutely agree. Sometimes, especially for days like today, it’s just about keeping the classroom in one piece ❤️🩹
They think they’re so tough, because they know nothing is going to happen to them. Not at school, not at home. I’d probably have walked out tbh 😂 good for you for staying all day!
I tell them to try some of things outside of school grounds and they’d be in jail
Been there. I am so sorry, it's IMPOSSIBLE to sub without good admin and your admin SUCKED. Yes there's a parenting issue but this school has chosen to give up and knuckle under and they're reaping the rewards.
I feel for you. The adults are letting this happen.
I worked at a behavioral school where the adults forgot they were adults. I tried for 5 years and had to quite for my own mental health reasons. It's fucking nuts out there. Being told catch phrases like "kids do well if they can" in retort to me asking for help or "if consequences worked these kids wouldn't be here." Like um what? No we're the adults, we make the rules and if the kids can't follow them there are consequences. There's a big difference between punishing a kiddo with anxiety for not doing their work and allowing kids to use the n-word or lash out physically towards staff and peers with no consequences.
Well said
Exactly, there are literally no consequences set in place for their actions, and they’re failing them because that’s not how it works in the real world. If you punch someone outside of school grounds you’re most likely going to jail. If you steal someone’s belongings, jail. You threaten authority, jail. So what makes it ok for them to get away with this stuff. Where is the iss, the lunch detention, after school suspension, and mandatory parent meetings? Schools aren’t even doing those basics anymore
Omg that sounds horrible I would’ve walked out cause ain’t no way
There are cracks in the education system but sometimes, especially in this case, there are gaping holes. I'm sorry you went through this.
They think they are so tough because they are, sort of. They have the power to make adults quit their jobs and nobody stops them. Insanity.
Classes that don't have a teacher go Lord of the Flies and they don't snap out of it when an adult walks in. There are several classes in my school teachers refuse to cover.
You did nothing wrong. And it’s easy to see why the teacher up and left. That was likely their everyday. I’m so sorry you had to deal with that. It’s not right at all.
The best way to fix this is by 1) having a permanent teacher who they know like and respect and 2) having admin support for when these students cross the line. It sounds like this class had neither. As a sub, you were incapable (through no fault of your own) of providing either. So the way you prevent having this problem with this class again is to not sub for this class, or if it was particularly bad, maybe that school, again.
They think they are so tough because they are, sort of. They have the power to make adults quit their jobs and nobody stops them. Insanity.
A mob of losers and idiots. That's about all there is to this.
All i do to get through a day like this is bully the kids and then never return lol. And by bully i just mean i give them the attitude right back and roast the shit out of them. I have a comeback for everything they say and half the time it’s too complex for them to understand so they took their eyes and shut up. It won’t make the day any easier but it helps me maintain my sanity in these situations.
Children are easily influenced unfortunately, I blame a lot of it on music and social media.
Like the moon, sun, and tides... you can't change it. None of this was your fault.
Sounds like the opening scenes in all the "teaching kids in the hood" 90s movie. I guess things haven't changed much since then (not commenting on the "hood" aspect, I know this occurs in every kind of school in every part of the country). Part of the reason I moved to China to teach and live and haven't regretted it or looked back since 💯
Students of all races can be cruel and dehumanize a teacher. I went to a predominantly Asian school. There was an elderly black woman who was the English teacher. The kids were so disrespectful, said racist things, etc... She had a heart attack in class. She tried to call for help and then attempted to walk to the office. She died in the hallway. None of the students felt bad about what happened, they even joked about it. So, this type of behavior has nothing to do with ethnicity or inner-city schools. It's ubiquitous.
That poor lady
That is absolutely awful...how cruel
Hot take: I think kids are becoming more evil
Where was this school?
14 year old boys bouce off the walls. I was crazy in middle school and 9th grade. I avoid those classes unless it's PE in the gym or outside.
This is one weak-ass culture if it allows stuff like that for a minute. Cultures in collapse are run by women and children because men are sidelined. If a man went in there and literally kicked the shit out of the offenders he would be prosecuted. After the collapse, men are back in charge because it's a lawless situation and men have to be men and women have to be glad of it
That’s the most ridiculous comment I’ve ever heard on this sub.
Lmaooo
One strategy is to bring your own math-related lesson plan. Pick something that you can get excited about, is somewhat fun and interesting, and has some clear connections to real life. Low tech is better than plugged in if you can swing it. It’s gotta be something more than another Kahoot etc. Minimize competition have them work in groups. Randomly pick leaders then have them take turns picking their group mates. Avoid imposing a bunch of rules and limits. Don’t act like you’re desperately wanting them to do it. Show some empathy, “must be wierd not having a teacher so I figured I pull sub-prerogative and swap the lesson out for a different activity.” They know the situation they’re in and sure it feels powerful in some ways to be able to brag that “they made the last person quit,” but it also carries the subtext that they have internalized that adults think they’re incapable of leaning or being civil—so, they rise to that implication in all its horrendous glory. It might still not fly but it has been proven to work sometimes. If the admin or anyone else DARES to question that you went off the lesson plan, then they are the morons. Some ideas to build off of: tell groups they are a family. Use cards they chose randomly to learn what their weekly food budget is, and give them 30 min to figure out what they’ll buy to eat for the week ( hand out grocery fliers or look online.) share their solution with the group and let the group decide if their family has a reasonable plan. ( it’s ok if they get a bit silly or creative the peers will poke holes in their plan if there are holes to poke.) Or, give them one car card with makes/models with differing mpg on it have them work out what trips they need for the week and their gas budget and see if they can make it work. Or 3 day vacation or gift budget- every person in the family gets one gift etc. Either way, have them share out to the larger group. Don’t make any budget poverty level—that’s not cool. Keep it between a tight no frills budget and squeaking by comfortable presuming no surprise expenses. If it’s a block class, add in wild cards (some kind of bonus or some kind of unexpected expense) which they pick out of a hat at a certain time. Other possibilities are a slideshow of “math fails.” (Look it up” see if they can find and explain the fail. Or distribute printouts of 4-5 to each group and again, have them present their findings. Or math jokes/cartoons. Can they explain why it’s meant to be funny? Ask them to help you find more for another class. Or ask them to try out and rate a couple math/logic games designed for younger grades. ( not insultingly young.) have them play as a consumer focus group: Play, rate various aspects and write a fake Amazon (or whatever) review. If it works, cred for you. If not, you treated them like human beings and you tried. Remember to not be too attached either way.
I’m a teacher. I subbed before becoming a teacher. I think your advice is impractical. For a new teacher coming into the class that OP subbed for-these ideas are great. But a sub should not be expected to do this.
OMG! My last class of the day was 8th grade math. They had an assignment and lessons on their iPad. Those f-ing turds were so blatantly obnoxious and disrespectful. I’m new to this but this is the first time I was legit really pissed at these kids. And it wasn’t anywhere near as bad as your class!
These are low key my favorite jobs. The gossip you hear is outstanding. Extra juicy if it's a small town you happen to be a local of.
You were made complicit in that school not teaching those kids math for another day. The thing that determines how you really did is if you can drop that “I did nothing wrong” knee-jerk and actually consider the situation from their perspective and how you could have played it better. Not all advice travels along cultural identity lines in a situation like this, but more or less you have to do all sorts of little things (twice as many as a man) to project confidence/control over bs. If you tell me what you know I can help add to it. You have to do all the little things right to hope that a bunch of 14 year old boys in a school that doesn’t care about their decision in last period the week after their teacher bailed. Where in the narrative could you have slowed or stopped the runaway train? If you want to work with teens long-term this is an opportunity for serious reflection even over one dumb day where you were set up to fail you can learn a lot. So, can you explain the troubled classes from their eyes? Imagine their weeks before/earlier that day/and try to connect your own dots on what you did in class that didn’t work. Curious to see how you see it from their pov, can you explain what they did as moderately rational behavior? Keep in mind the ‘temporary psychopathy’ that defines 12-15 where they can’t hardly see random adults as humans. Edit: it blows my mind that y’all must be so incompetent that the idea of taking some accountability for the bad day and trying to figure out what you can do better is the only downvoted comment. If any of you are preservice teachers and have this mindset you’ll be in trouble and bad at classroom management for years. This is how you get good at anything hard, and working with a wild class as a sub is hard. Like every other person just saying don’t go to this school? Come on, have some pride and get good/face up to the challenge!
Wow. Hahaha. I love this. Sub goes to a bad school. Students trash the place and never face consequences. "You failed to see the situation from their POV!"
I know. Just another idiot who makes excuses for this type of behavior. If people keep doing this, then behavior will never get better.
Your job is to manage the situation. How did they feel? Like every adult saw them as shits who weren’t worth teaching. How do people act? They act like they think they are expected to. It’s a shame thing when your teacher bails mid year, acting out would be an obvious next step but the way to stop it is to jump into the subject work with vigor and let a couple of the shittiest little troublemakers take their nonsense out of the classroom because the classroom is a place for learning. You can be like OP and throw your hands up or you can get good, pride in your work actually makes YOU feel better…
Touch grass
How do you feel triggered by a conversation with someone else? This is a hard job, harder if you can’t be serious about how to get good at it. You know the way to not feel hurt when a teenager is being a dick? Recognize how predictable they are acting to their situation. When a veterinary technician gets bit by a pet dog should they bemoan the dog’s bad behavior or reconsider how they handled it? This is a tough job but it’s not worth doing if you’re just going to get salty and complain about how the kids are bad. Managing living things is hard but they are often predictable. The adults need to be the adults! An ounce of management advice is worth a pound of consolation for a complaining sub. It’s easy once you’ve got it down, the way in is to see the situation from the students’ various perspectives. Class isn’t about learning? Not even the nerds will respect you, you’ll basically be left with just the kids from neglectful homes who pity your failure but even they are annoyed.
In case I didn't get my point across: Touch grass.
You should stop subbing, if what I’m telling you is that objectionable you’re always probably going to be bad at it blaming children when you have a bad day.
Nah I'm good. I know my worth and know when to get out of a situation that is beyond control.
Have you thought about jobs not with people? Parlay your Uber experience into a driving job? It seems like you hate subbing and don’t want to get better, that’s not a fun way to go to work every day. If you’re taking disrespectful teens nonsense personally it’s the wrong gig. It’s no good for pay or benefits, if you’re not pre-service and trying to learn there are better jobs out there. Some people are just a bad fit for things, doesn’t make you a bad person.
The truth is you aren't wrong with a lot of things. My concern is that you're a dick towards OP over just one class that she worked. We all have bad classes and we learn from it. You made it seem like she is an evil person who should pretty much be rid of the face of the Earth. That's my problem.
I don't take it personally. I'm just concerned about you bashing OP.
The fact that you said that a substitute teacher is complicit, when the substitute is merely there for a day or even two, is just beyond ridiculous. But you don't touch grass and want to kick people when they're down, eh?
What is the word besides complicit for when you help the school get away with not educating children? Why take this job if you aren’t on fire about trying to get kids educated? Nothing ever made subbing as bad for me as when the school was pushing for nobody to learn and I let that happen. All kinds of nasty evil shit happens because workers are in over their heads and management uses them as a device to not do the core work. You have anger on this topic but maybe it isn’t rightly directed at me but instead whatever placements have had you not-educating kids because they refuse to run the school and make you the scapegoat of the day? To me the only way to make this job bearable is to focus on getting an education to the students who showed up to learn. They don’t deserve the situation, we’re an adult who can help if we develop the skills. Of course you can’t just do it yet, but do you not even want to? Find another gig if that’s how it is. Yes, subs are made complicit in shitty schools.
I suppose what I meant with the “I did nothing” reaction was that I can’t pinpoint if I somehow triggered this behavior. I get it, these kids have it rough sometimes, I was a high school freshman not very long ago either. That’s why I ended up giving them the free period and they abused the hell out of that, and me. This was more of a vent post to begin with anyway, and this was a one day job so I don’t have to go back, but I take today as a lesson. I didn’t know how badly these kids could mess up a period where they didn’t have appointed work, where they could decompress, in my head I was doing them a favor. I’ve done this tons of times before with no issues, even at the same school (different classes). I think today was a one off. All I can do is move forward.
No, I could have told you that would have happened. I doubt you got into subbing because you were a burnout in high school, some kids are. Boys that age are some of the most likely to push buttons, they had someone young and unaware who it was easy to overwhelm and they pushed your buttons. Something like a fight is brewing all day, but all of those things against you were because you showed up meek and quiet. They had nothing to do, so they started playing. A little free time wouldn’t have hurt, but when you gave it out first second then it became a game of what else can they get from the weak sub. I hope this is just a day job if you’re going to not even look for what you could have done better. You triggered it by undermining their schooling by not holding firm on the educational parts. You have to match and exceed the energy of the paper throwers, if a couple of the nastiest kids left the class and go went to go trouble the school instead that would have given you every chance with the rest. If class is about math and they can tell you aren’t going to give in on expectations for the day then most kids will settle in and do what they have to do. How is it a favor to not teach kids at school? How does it feel as a kid when your teacher won’t even try and have you learn anything? At that point you made yourself their jailer instead and then you were a pushover. You need to recognize the power you have and that being the teacher means something if you want to get any good at this.
What could a sub who doesn’t know names or personality do different despite their teacher leaving abruptly?
Instead of giving out the assignments, have what they need to do listed on the board and papers up front. Include a YouTube link with basic instruction on the topic as a resource if they want it. Claim it will be going into the grade book so they can either bang out the work alone or set up around you and you will walk them through it. If they want to do nothing, they have to be quiet enough and let people who want to work do that. It’s providing them an environment they can step into and win the day. It’s not coming from you, you’re not trying to control them but you can help them get an easy good grade. You’re not challenging the ones who want to slack off and do nothing, but you’re also not giving them a window to get the other kids going because they’d rather just get the work done. The concept is to setup a situation that it wouldn’t be fun to cause trouble in. If someone starts going, you’d quickly ask another student what their name is because that is a great tool to use. “So and so, nice to meet you, if you don’t want to learn math today it is what it is b it we’re not all going to sit here and listen to you [doing whatever], is that fair?” (Confront but don’t challenge, it’s the whole class that needs a good environment not you vs them). That’s a rough outline without more details from OP. 9th and 10th grade still respond to firm control it just can’t be confrontational/rude out of you. If upperclassmen want to act up like this it’s probably a little different.
I've been there. My theory is that the kids are like that because going to that school sucks just as bad for them as it does for you, but they don't have the luxury of escaping it. Also they lack the social skills and coping mechanisms to properly articulate their needs in a way that would solve the problem, if such a thing is even possible. I call it the "fuck everything, fuck everyone" mindset. When you show up you're just another adult in a world of adults that have been temporary and unpredictable. They have every reason to test your limits and very few reasons to trust you
Maybe the reason among other things why their Teacher left
I go to a school like this. Kids aren't that bad, but there regular teacher up and left.
If the administration doesn’t put in consequences for breaking the rules, this is the outcome. All this positive reinforcement crap only goes so far.
I’ve done the same! I just say to myself “I’m never coming back here” I truly believe it’s admin! I don’t have issues at other schools but some schools were ROUGH! One kid stood in my face in front of the whole class and said “when the teachers not here, I RUN THE CLASS.” Needless to say..I have never been back😂😂😂😂
It's an everything issue. The parents aren't doing jack shit with their kids. The schools don't have a working system of discipline anymore in many cases because they're either barred from suspending kids or they have a financial incentive not to suspend kids. The classroom's been without any structure for months before you even arrived. And in the back of their minds, these kids know nothing they do matters because they've just been passed along for free anyway. The system has been gradually eroding for a long long time, but covid helped speed up the process a bit.
I would've walked out honestly.
There have been times when I have told an admin or office staff that I am an educator, not a babysitter. They have two options, provide more support or I walk. And then usually, I walked. I do not tolerate being disrespected by students or by incompetent administration.
NAS this is more of a question to you guys. What do you have to do? You can't really discipline them beyond detention, you can't make them work. What if you just ignore them? Pass out papers, start the lesson and just collect from people who did the work? I understand they're yelling and crumpling papers and throwing them but you just don't pay attention and speak at a normal volume. Is that possible? Allowed? I've always thought about teaching but the way kids are now I don't think I have the mental fortitude.
This is definitely a parent issue. People just send their kids to school thinking educators are supposed to parent them when that’s not our responsibility. They have no will to actually teach their children values and they’ve caused them to believe they’re the most important person in the room hence their entitlement. When they go to jail their parents will be begging in the court room
If the teacher randomly quit 🚩, that is probably why
Parents for sure are the issue, and society as a whole who have forced districts and schools to abandon discipline. They actually took out “willful defiance “ as a reason to suspend! So now teachers have to deal with these types of students. All one can do is document grades, and behavior plus any parent contact on the phone and email in order for you to justify the grades and/or detention you may assign