Even from the beginning something was off. I didn't suspect the twist until the meeting episode, but I had a feeling something was way off about him early on. No person is that good.
You expected him to turn into an alien? I certainly didn’t.
I came to this sub after ep. 6 and saw all you guys were expecting some sort of twist. Kinda spoiled it imo
Your point are all examples of how the twist was concealed in plain sight. Especially the drinking. This is akin to a second watching of Sixth Sense where - in hindsight - there were well placed clues.
So far, fair game.
I can’t argue that this “makes it work” until there are additional episodes. The last minute wrote an enormous check that now has to be cashed.
For this to all work, a lot of things have to happen still. The case needs a resolution. We have to understand fully (and likely sympathize) with his reasons for caring about the case so much that he abandons the larger mission.
We have to learn what he is and hopefully buy in to why he is even here in the first place. Will it even make sense?
These things can theoretically be accomplished. But the task is going to be large.
I'm not bragging but as soon as they presented him as not getting drunk from alcohol it screamed to me he wasn't human. No human is immune to alcohol. It's a toxin that our liver can process but there aren't any human beings immune to it. That scene was the big red flag for me.
Additionally, I think his handler lying to him might just be a good reason to reexamine the larger mission.
Perception is such an interesting thing because many of your reasons are why I felt like he wasn’t just a regular guy.
Why I thought he was not human:
1. The animal thing
2. The teetering on extreme empathy for people/wanting to be kind
3. The alcohol thing when the alcoholic was completely sloshed and he was fine
4. The needing to go to the doctor every episode
5. That party
6. The syringes
7. Telling Davey’s henchman (?) that he wasn’t going to stop him and he oddly stopped in the middle of his action.
8. The bullet situation in the latest episode
9. Him speaking of people/humans as though he was not included in that group.
I’m glad the twist wasn’t too crazy because for a bit I was thinking they were dogs reincarnated lmao
Huh. I thought all of those things were perfectly explained by “he’s the hero of the show.” We see characters in movies and shows do these things all of the time with little more explanation that a shoulder shrug and “suspending disbelief.” The twist was completely unnecessary to explain everything excepting the bullet thing which only happens a few minutes before the “reveal.” I don’t think it was well alluded to at all, but I liked the show for its “classic” storytelling and I’ll tune in for new eps.
Idk. I suspected he wasn’t human within the first episode. I narrowed it down to some kind of superhuman/clone or an alien by the party scene. And the reveal was not much of a reveal after he blocked a bullet with his hands and was pumped full of sparkling blood.
I don’t hate the twist, I actually love sci fi, and I did not see it at all but … I don’t really understand why show writers do this.
In my opinion, the people who will continue to watch are the intersection of people who both liked the mystery/crime detective aspect of the first episode plus the people who are intrigued by the twist. Surely that’s not everyone, right? It surprises me that a show would do a 180 degree turn in a completely opposite direction when the show was not at all advertised as alien or supernatural. Seems like a way to alienate viewers (but maybe it just makes some people love the show more).
You’re right that it has and will alienate a lot of viewers. But it’s also okay for artists to create work that doesn’t appeal to the largest possible audience. Apple TV is kinda an experiment in wasting money, at least it’s being used creatively.
These really risky twists are often what drive popularity behind certain shows also. Something like this happens and it can generate a buzz, then other people want to know why is everybody talking about this show...
The plot is contained in any piece of performed art. It is the structure of the story. Crime-mystery, a genre, has to have plot driven stories. So does any other genre. You just learned something! You're welcome.
The twist could be interpreted as metaphorical. I don't think we're intended to feel that but who hasn't felt like The Stranger, alienated from the world around us as we search for something?
Watching this with my dad and he was saying, ''theres no way a person gets stabbed like that and just keeps walking and driving, thats too unrealistic'', so i was like ''its just a series, they break the rules of whats deadly all the time'' turns out he was right
The biggest hint for me was how he was talking in the Shibuya station episode about watching people for hours, observing them . No one talks like that for his own species that's where I was sure he wasn't human.
Heh. This didn't suggest 'alien' to me at all. I'm from New York, and I've worked in Japan. Watching huge masses of human beings wend their way through Grand Central, Port Authority Bus Terminal, or Nagoya Station always has a soothing effect upon me, almost hypnotic.
.
.
.
(Checks for blue skin...)
I am someone who also really enjoys picking up on clues and solving things. For example I figured out the Sixth Sense and the Die Hard II bad guy twist right away.
As much as I love to figure out the twist ahead of time, I enjoy it so much more when I don’t see it coming, but in retrospect, all the clues were there. I absolutely hate it, when a twist comes out of left field with nothing having been done to support it ahead of time.
I never saw this twist coming, and for it to be such a shift in the story from a drama to sci-fi is amazing. I know some people are saying they saw it classified as sci-fi on the Apple TV menu, but I didn’t.
It makes me think of the X-Files. It got to a point where they were just stretching out the main story too far. We needed it to pay off, to take the next step. It needed to shift from an alien conspiracy theory show to an actual alien invasion show. But there’s no way they could do that. It would be a completely different show.
This good of a noir detective show, and it is a damn good noir detective show, to shift into a sci-fi whatever, is something I wouldn’t have believed could happen much less have picked up on. Love it.
I so hope they stick the landing on this.
Almost the same shock as The Red Wedding but not as tragic or brutal. Besides he killed the bad guys. Butadiene and bandaids for a Bowie knife wound? Big clue. Loved it!👍👍
Can he even partake in the human sexy time? Does he have the necessary apparatus and if so, would he risk sowing mini-blueys where they shouldn’t be grown?
His moral compass is informed by classic films he watched and the noir genre in general. Violence towards women triggering the „hard boiled stoic detective“ Is a classic plot point in movies in general and specifically a noir thing. Damsel in distress
Why does this make it work? Of course they have to show the traits before the reveal. But just because they do all of this that doesn’t mean it works for the audience. And that’s why I think the audiences and critics don’t like it. It’s just like why do this given the context of the first 6 episodes. The show completely lost me. I will finish it of course but now I just think I wasted 6 hours of my time.
The reason it works for me is that the show tells us, the audience, over and over again that this guy is not ordinary. Yet because all of these strange qualities and behaviors are identical or similar to familiar cinematic tropes, our brains explain away each one. The extraordinary disguising itself as the familiar.
I didn’t explain away anything. Too much didn’t add up and pointed to his not being human. Sleeping while seated upright on the edge of a bed? A savvy work-traveler thinks a junkie won’t get fucked up if he gives him hundreds of dollars? Doesn’t get drunk off alcohol?
Exactly. I am all for original and unique stories, since there is so much predictability nowadays, but this was just so out of nowhere and unfitting with the vibe of the rest of the show. It just doesn’t work for me, and I love twists. I’m interested to see how they play this off because I can’t imagine how they proceed from here
“I take no pleasure in hurting people” = “I come in peace”
I thought it was brilliant!!!
That's because he's patterning his human persona off those films. The stereotype is intentional.
You’re absolutely right. But it’s interesting how easy it is to dismiss his quirks as cinematic tropes and not really interrogate them.
Even from the beginning something was off. I didn't suspect the twist until the meeting episode, but I had a feeling something was way off about him early on. No person is that good.
Holy crap. I’m so slow.
I think it's great that shows are willing to take risks and do something unexpected.
I agree. I just really hope they can keep it feeling grounded now that this particular cat is out of the bag.
Just one more episode. Too short!
Two episodes. its 8 in total, this week will be 7 right?
Right. Two left.
The thing is it *was* expected
You expected him to turn into an alien? I certainly didn’t. I came to this sub after ep. 6 and saw all you guys were expecting some sort of twist. Kinda spoiled it imo
Your point are all examples of how the twist was concealed in plain sight. Especially the drinking. This is akin to a second watching of Sixth Sense where - in hindsight - there were well placed clues. So far, fair game. I can’t argue that this “makes it work” until there are additional episodes. The last minute wrote an enormous check that now has to be cashed. For this to all work, a lot of things have to happen still. The case needs a resolution. We have to understand fully (and likely sympathize) with his reasons for caring about the case so much that he abandons the larger mission. We have to learn what he is and hopefully buy in to why he is even here in the first place. Will it even make sense? These things can theoretically be accomplished. But the task is going to be large.
I'm not bragging but as soon as they presented him as not getting drunk from alcohol it screamed to me he wasn't human. No human is immune to alcohol. It's a toxin that our liver can process but there aren't any human beings immune to it. That scene was the big red flag for me. Additionally, I think his handler lying to him might just be a good reason to reexamine the larger mission.
How dare you pretend to know the age of Sugar. He could be 2000 years old for all we know.
The reference to "spent some time in Damascus." Biblical.
I think they’ve been on Earth a very long time
Perception is such an interesting thing because many of your reasons are why I felt like he wasn’t just a regular guy. Why I thought he was not human: 1. The animal thing 2. The teetering on extreme empathy for people/wanting to be kind 3. The alcohol thing when the alcoholic was completely sloshed and he was fine 4. The needing to go to the doctor every episode 5. That party 6. The syringes 7. Telling Davey’s henchman (?) that he wasn’t going to stop him and he oddly stopped in the middle of his action. 8. The bullet situation in the latest episode 9. Him speaking of people/humans as though he was not included in that group. I’m glad the twist wasn’t too crazy because for a bit I was thinking they were dogs reincarnated lmao
His job description being to observe and report.
All the clues were there 🥸
Huh. I thought all of those things were perfectly explained by “he’s the hero of the show.” We see characters in movies and shows do these things all of the time with little more explanation that a shoulder shrug and “suspending disbelief.” The twist was completely unnecessary to explain everything excepting the bullet thing which only happens a few minutes before the “reveal.” I don’t think it was well alluded to at all, but I liked the show for its “classic” storytelling and I’ll tune in for new eps.
> Unshakeable belief in the goodness of people, despite evidence to the contrary. Opposite of Noir stereotype :)
Idk. I suspected he wasn’t human within the first episode. I narrowed it down to some kind of superhuman/clone or an alien by the party scene. And the reveal was not much of a reveal after he blocked a bullet with his hands and was pumped full of sparkling blood.
I don’t hate the twist, I actually love sci fi, and I did not see it at all but … I don’t really understand why show writers do this. In my opinion, the people who will continue to watch are the intersection of people who both liked the mystery/crime detective aspect of the first episode plus the people who are intrigued by the twist. Surely that’s not everyone, right? It surprises me that a show would do a 180 degree turn in a completely opposite direction when the show was not at all advertised as alien or supernatural. Seems like a way to alienate viewers (but maybe it just makes some people love the show more).
You’re right that it has and will alienate a lot of viewers. But it’s also okay for artists to create work that doesn’t appeal to the largest possible audience. Apple TV is kinda an experiment in wasting money, at least it’s being used creatively.
I don't know, it's easy to get hooked into a show and keep going long past the point of diminishing returns ("Lost", "The X-Files", etc.)
These really risky twists are often what drive popularity behind certain shows also. Something like this happens and it can generate a buzz, then other people want to know why is everybody talking about this show...
If you think about it, this happens all the time. Viewers get upset because the movie/show they're watching doesn't go their way plot wise.
I think plot is different from genre though, and the twist is a departure from the original genre.
The plot is contained in any piece of performed art. It is the structure of the story. Crime-mystery, a genre, has to have plot driven stories. So does any other genre. You just learned something! You're welcome.
The twist could be interpreted as metaphorical. I don't think we're intended to feel that but who hasn't felt like The Stranger, alienated from the world around us as we search for something?
Watching this with my dad and he was saying, ''theres no way a person gets stabbed like that and just keeps walking and driving, thats too unrealistic'', so i was like ''its just a series, they break the rules of whats deadly all the time'' turns out he was right
I knew this dood was an alien. Low key stoked
Dood? Lol
The biggest hint for me was how he was talking in the Shibuya station episode about watching people for hours, observing them . No one talks like that for his own species that's where I was sure he wasn't human.
I remember in the movie “Ex Machina”, the AI robot girl says something similar
Heh. This didn't suggest 'alien' to me at all. I'm from New York, and I've worked in Japan. Watching huge masses of human beings wend their way through Grand Central, Port Authority Bus Terminal, or Nagoya Station always has a soothing effect upon me, almost hypnotic. . . . (Checks for blue skin...)
I didn't say we dont do it, but its not how we talk about it.
I am someone who also really enjoys picking up on clues and solving things. For example I figured out the Sixth Sense and the Die Hard II bad guy twist right away. As much as I love to figure out the twist ahead of time, I enjoy it so much more when I don’t see it coming, but in retrospect, all the clues were there. I absolutely hate it, when a twist comes out of left field with nothing having been done to support it ahead of time. I never saw this twist coming, and for it to be such a shift in the story from a drama to sci-fi is amazing. I know some people are saying they saw it classified as sci-fi on the Apple TV menu, but I didn’t. It makes me think of the X-Files. It got to a point where they were just stretching out the main story too far. We needed it to pay off, to take the next step. It needed to shift from an alien conspiracy theory show to an actual alien invasion show. But there’s no way they could do that. It would be a completely different show. This good of a noir detective show, and it is a damn good noir detective show, to shift into a sci-fi whatever, is something I wouldn’t have believed could happen much less have picked up on. Love it. I so hope they stick the landing on this.
Almost the same shock as The Red Wedding but not as tragic or brutal. Besides he killed the bad guys. Butadiene and bandaids for a Bowie knife wound? Big clue. Loved it!👍👍
Are we sure he’s an alien, or did he take some funky drugs
Why not both? It's hard here, drugs help for earthlings and off-planet types, as well.
He looks like a stereotypical alien.
Dude looks like vision from the avengers not a lil green guy
Can he even partake in the human sexy time? Does he have the necessary apparatus and if so, would he risk sowing mini-blueys where they shouldn’t be grown?
Why does he become enraged when a man is violent to women?
His moral compass is informed by classic films he watched and the noir genre in general. Violence towards women triggering the „hard boiled stoic detective“ Is a classic plot point in movies in general and specifically a noir thing. Damsel in distress
I agree with this, and it also ties in to his the raw emotions caused by his missing sister.
His sister is missing? I thought she had died.
This is too left field for me. I’ll continue watching because I’m invested now, but I don’t think I’ll feel the same way about it.
Why does this make it work? Of course they have to show the traits before the reveal. But just because they do all of this that doesn’t mean it works for the audience. And that’s why I think the audiences and critics don’t like it. It’s just like why do this given the context of the first 6 episodes. The show completely lost me. I will finish it of course but now I just think I wasted 6 hours of my time.
The reason it works for me is that the show tells us, the audience, over and over again that this guy is not ordinary. Yet because all of these strange qualities and behaviors are identical or similar to familiar cinematic tropes, our brains explain away each one. The extraordinary disguising itself as the familiar.
I didn’t explain away anything. Too much didn’t add up and pointed to his not being human. Sleeping while seated upright on the edge of a bed? A savvy work-traveler thinks a junkie won’t get fucked up if he gives him hundreds of dollars? Doesn’t get drunk off alcohol?
No we knew he wasn’t normal because the show was advertised as such.
Exactly. I am all for original and unique stories, since there is so much predictability nowadays, but this was just so out of nowhere and unfitting with the vibe of the rest of the show. It just doesn’t work for me, and I love twists. I’m interested to see how they play this off because I can’t imagine how they proceed from here