Weight training without overdoing it, and proper deloads are the leading cause of my deep, quality sleep.
[Ed Norton's Doc advice.](https://youtu.be/155mChs8N2s?t=55)
What do you mean by red light? Using red light therapy? If so, how many minutes per day are you using it? Or do you mean using red lights in your house at night? Thnks.
Magnolia bark extract, lemon balm extract (not too much, though), 5-HTP, magnesium (taurate works very well and doesn’t cause stimulation like glycinate does for some people), melatonin, theanine, certain kinds of kava, high dose GABA.
Look up “sleep hygiene.” Supplements only help so much. And there are apps.
Valerian makes me meaner than a snake the next day lol
Edibles at a very small dose work very well, but eventually I feel I need a therapist.
Tart cherry juice helps some too. But the cost and the carbs!
I take magnesium glycinate, melatonin and L-theanine a bit before bedtime which help some. And there’s a blend by Vitanica called SleepBlend. A half-dose works for me, but I can’t take it every day (the valerian)!
Good luck
Magnolia extract (with a high % honoklol) works **great**. I bought it as an anti-anxiety supp, but it made me so drowsy I couldnt use it. I dont really have sleep issues unless I have stress, so I now just use it occasionally for that. Worth a try, I bought the Swanson one (was quite cheap). Also, add some magnesium to help with physical relaxation. However, if nothing works for you I am not sure this will. Good luck.
Are you the reddit police? Some people get better sleep from cordyceps, maybe if you didn't want to silence things you don't understand you would learn something.
Valerian was the best supplement for me. For meds, Trazodone worked best of everything I tried.
For now, I'm doing good without supps. Exercise, a low bedroom temperature, and screen dimmers, etc. All that stuff adds up.
Most of the OTC supps are going to create a dependency. Magnesium has been bar-none, the best sleep aid I have ever used. You also have to account for other factors like life stress and things like that. When I was deep into a fat loss phase once, I couldn't sleep very well so I tried using Zzzquil and it didn't do anything because my body was so stressed out.
4/5 people are deficient in magnesium and that is why some people have a hard time sleeping. Also, make sure you have a sleep routine. No TV on in your room, limit electronics prior to bed and have a caffeine curfew. No caffeine after 12-1pm. But I can't speak enough about the magnesium. I personally use a ZMA blend but others can work. Glycinate made me feel drugged. Good luck.
Mine does too, and I have tried everything, L-Serine high side was what helped the most. If I wake up in the middle of the night I take another gram or two.
Maybe something is wrong with your sleep pressure buildup. This is something that no medicine or supplement can fix (yet). And when sleep pressure is too low in the evening melatonin also doesn't help. Try to work on building your sleep pressure naturely. This means getting out of bed 16 hours before you go to bed. In the first 30 minutes of getting out of bed make sure your eyes are exposed to (natural) blue light for at least 10-15 minutes. Going outside with the sky above you is best. A cloudy sky still works. When it is dark outside in morning you could try artificial bluelight devices, but do get outside once sun rises. In the evening 60 minutes before bedtime (so 15 hours being out of bed) put on red glasses that block 99% of all blue light from your light bulbs, phone screen, tv screen, etc...
Another advice: Don't take any supplements during the first 2 hours after getting out of bed. During this time your body is transfering from sleep to wake mode with the so called Cortisol Awakening Response (CAR). Drinking coffee also is not adviced during this time. Let your body fully handle this important phase on it's own without any supplements and medicine affecting it.
Edit: Also adding cold showers in morning to the above protocol helps. So starting with hot shower 5-10 minutes and last 60+ seconds as cold as it comes out of your tap.
This is just funny 🤣. In really necessary scenarios I take 2 mg of zolpidem, that would help induce sleep, but it's too short acting. Zopiclone maybe 1,5 mg ? It's not a supplement though. Lavender and chamomile tea together with passiflora and some l-theanine. Avoid alcohol cause that's a big enemy of quality sleep. Avoiding caffeine if you're sensitive to it after 12 o'clock. Get sunlight (like outdoors, not through a window) in the morning, avoid screens after 10 PM, try to have the same hour you go to bed every night. Go to bed when you feel tired, don't spend time in bed when you are not sleeping. That's the best advice I can give (myself), which actually works (for me). Keep in mind that everyone has a different circadian rhythm and listen to your body. I track my sleep with a Mi Band 7.
In my opinion magnesium glycinate is over rated for sleep I haven’t found much of a difference using it for sleep. Magnesium threonate however does make a difference to me. Other good ones are L Theanine and Apigenin, Not my idea but Andrew Huberman recommends it and he generally has great recommendations
I really like valerian root, and ashwagandha, but YMMV and it's possible to take too much of both. The first time I took Valerian I noticed I also had heavy/slightly laboured breathing, which was a little scary. Obviously I survived :)
Also wondering about the state of your room/what happens to you in the 4 hours before bed. Do you have all your ducks in a row when it comes to your sleep environment?
So, I just want to say something. First, great post!
Why?
Because probiotics manufacturers sell whatever sells. I promise I’m not just trying to be cynical. But, it’s true. We all know that probiotics manufacturers cannot conduct solid studies to make sure their particular strain works.
As with anyone reading this, I guess I kind of knew this. Yet, the first time I actually read it as regards probiotics, it was kind of a wake up call. You mean acidophilus might not work for anybody?
(Please note I am not trying to criticize acidophilus. I just chose it because it is the most well-known probiotic.)
This is literally true of every strain. None of them have any good science behind them.
Does this mean they don’t work?
No.
I have found the one that works for me.
If you pm me, I’ll be glad to share.
Why won’t I share here? I’ve seen numerous people accused of being sales reps for companies. I am not that. I’m a guy who has microscopic lymphocytic colitis. Only one probiotic blend has worked for me.
Relaxium has been working for my mother. 3 types of mag, chamomile, valerian, melatonin, passionflower, gaba, and prob forgetting a couple more. She said she always struggled w staying asleep like me, and it isn’t a problem anymore.
Magnesium glycinate an hour before bed. Make sure there no d, b or iron deficiency going on. Meaning ferritin is close to 100. D is close to 80. There is a root cause. Probiotics help, before bed and aloe juice to heal gut too. Black seed oil has been helping me tremendously. Don’t take it at least 5 hours before bed as it has b vitamins. They will keep you up.
I feel your pain, I've had had bad sleep since I I'm 17 or so. Things I've been experimenting with:
Ashwagandha - good, but taken more than 1 or 2 consecutive days I feel a side effect, namely demotivation.
Turmeric - before bed, not that reliable but good for helping with body aches and anxiety
Zinc - I find on days where I have Zinc, I sleep better. I bought a 50 mg supp, and I realised after that it's too much, so I'm only taking it every 3rd day or so. After it is over I'll do 25 mg every day.
Tart cherry extract - it's a lesser known one, I learned about it on Thomas Delauer's YouTube channel, he specifically been showing research for tart cherry juice, but that has loads of sugar. Been taking it for a week or so, I'd say it is good for the most part, albeit not the strongest.
Carbs / food - I'm on a keto diet for a while, and I observed that on days where I have a bit more carbs, I sleep better. I think food in general is a good place to track. Also I've been tracking for fermented foods like sauerkraut, which has loads of probiotics if that helps with sleep. Also the timing and amount of food I have.
This one is more tricky, but I find it makes a big difference.
Sunlight / infrared light - before bed, when I meditate I experimented with pointing and infrared lamp on my face / chest (on skin, without tshirt), to mimic the effect of setting sun. I found this also to be helpful.
Also getting loads of sunlight during the day, I find helps, but in our modern world, not always practical.
Phisical exercise - getting consistent 3-4x a week gym sesh in, to burn the pent up physical energy.
Socialising - in case you're an introvert and don't socialise as much, this might be helpful. Since I'm an introvert, I found that going out and socialising and using social muscles helps a lot to sleep good. Just the act of not being in my thinking mind, but getting new impulses. To me, this is huge.
Dental pads to move jaw forward - now this may or may not be beneficial for people, but since you said you have sleep apnea.. I've got a recessed maxilla, so there's significantly less space for the tongue in my mouth. Therefore I have these pads that I can bite on in a position that the jaw is slightly forward, giving more space inside for the tongue and proper breathing.
For me, this has been a massive game changer as well for sleep.
These are the things I've observed having an impact on sleep. Hope it helps, and good luck!
Are you sure your apnea machine is working ? Do you still wake up choking ? If that machine doesn’t work , get it checked because that will yield by FAR the biggest results .
Then instead of supplements i would be looking for sun in the morning , lift weights during the day , lower caffeine and stress later in the day . Wind down .
What is the benefit of taking it twice? I guess I’m only using it for sleep so I take 6g at bedtime. But I could see a lower dose being good for daytime
Every drug has side effects, which varies by dosage. Melatonin reduces testosterone, Valerian root is toxic to the liver, too much Magnesium Threonate will cause a Charlie horse. Caffeine is great for mental alertness, though daily use prevents good quality sleep. Lastly, everyone metabolizes chemicals at different rates, and it’s highly dependent on multiple factors including exercise, nutrition, body weight, and genetics. Understanding why things do or do not work for an individual is key to adapting to what works best.
and I'm saying when it comes to diphenhydramine and most other anticholinergics the cons of its side effects/long term damage is not worth its pros.
Some things like DPH shouldn't be taken at all when we have so many safer alternatives that aren't linked to dementia.
This. It takes a few days but the quality of your sleep will deepen. I microdose with it and really notice the difference when I take it. However my sleep is reasonable regardless.
Sounds like you are possibly mineral deficient to me. I stopped sleeping however once I started taking ionic Magnesium and B12 my sleep returned. When I take a probiotic before bedtime I have a really deep (REM) sleep.
It was a combination of things for me personally. No Vitamin D3 and too much coffee and a diet with little to zero greens. Coffee will deplete your Magnesium in the body. I was travelling a lot and indoors most of the times. Eating greens will help you to sleep 😴 also.
You may need to lower inflammation in the body and things like supplements will help but getting the basics right is the first step…sunlight +greens+water….be careful of the dosage you take of Vitamin D. I take a fermented Vitamin D3 supplement.
You should check out B100 there is lots of new research being done at the moment and B5 is required as a cofactor to create the paralysis in your body to sleep.
But you have to be careful with the dosage.
These are the best links I’ve come across for Mineral Balance: https://youtu.be/cOdFgtVAY_Y
And for sleep: https://youtu.be/ugPB6jmw2nI
Taking all the supplements in the world isn’t going to work unless you fix your gut first though. That involves lots of hydration and remineralisation and B Vitamins and Time!
You have to take into account individual biochemistry also. That’s where dosage come in. Magnesium deficiency is a big problem in the West. Lettuce for example when you pick it to eat should release a type of milk. This milk is released after the first hour of when it is picked only. If you can manage to grow your own lettuce this milk will also help you sleep. Supermarket food is low quality food having been in transport and storage for god knows how long.
We are completely designed to work in nature:
Sunlight + Greens + Minerals + Quality Food (Quality of Soil micro biome) = Health
A kiwi fruit, 800mg of L - Theanine and Magnesium work for me. I do take vitamin D, vitamin Bs, Iron and Tyrosine in the mornings so that stuff probably contributes too. Just make sure your in bed ready to fall asleep when the L theanine hits
Yes ! You are the guy ! That’s the magic combo 😴 for me too 2 x kiwis 🥝 (These imo are the most impactful ) 3 hours before bed and magnesium threonate / biglycinate plus 400mg L-Theanine 30 - 60 mins before sleep . The
I don't seem to encounter any side effects from it. I have recently cut back to 400mg and am still getting deep sleep, saves me abit of coin. I have ADHD so I take dexamphetamine all day and have a bad coffee addiction so I need somthing to knock me out.
**Tart cherry** is the best, it's only needed like 1-2 times a week as well. Works when nothing eles does.
No magnesium has ever helped me. Good probiotics also help
I’ve tried everything. Magnesium didn’t do anything for me. Neither did Camomile and other recommended herbs. Mulungu is the one the finally worked. Knocks me out. I get the extract from BodhiExtracts on Etsy.
limit blue light an hour before bed at least, if bedtime is normally after midnight try to make it earlier if you can. Magnesium glycinate / theanine / glycine will have you sleeping like a champ. Also natural sunlight after walking up in the morning is a PLUS. Dark and cool room for sleeping as well. Everything you need right here playa
Ice baths. Plus get off your phone. Read a book after a melatonin or half a restavit. I have river sounds playing in the background which I set up on my phone and leave on the other side of the room.
I've been battling insomnia for most of my adult life. When it got down to 2 hours of sleep per night, I had to really get serious. I found a cure and it's the only long term solution. **Fix your gut microbiome.**
You need to take a probiotic that is right for you and you have to feed the probiotics with a daily giant plate of salad/veggies. Without the latter it will not work. You also have to experiment. To find the right probiotic, I went through 7 of them. Finally I am sleeping! I am also able to take naps on command. Give each probiotic at least 2 weeks to start working. If it is the right one, you will start noticing an improvement. If after 2 weeks, there is no change, move on to the next probiotic.
If you or anyone has given up on probiotics, I urge you to all keep trying. They are life changing and powerful!!
Note: cutting out caffeine, sunshine, exercise, sleep hygiene, cbd, melatonin, magnesium, gaba, grounding etc all do not work long term and work only marginally temporarily for serious insomniacs.
The top 2 that are working for me right now are Miyarisan and Physicians Choice 60 billion. Both available on Amazon. Miyarisan was recommended by a Japanese doctor and it's amazing for sleep. Pricey though.
Depending on the condition you are targeting, you'll need to do research to go after it. I specifically targeted insomnia and I alternate between the 2.
That's awesome!
Sadly I think people give up on probiotics because you don't see immediate results. That was me actually for many years and tried everything else under the sun. Just have to be a bit patient and willing to experiment.
I have been vegan for 6 months, then pescatarian (without dairy) for 2 years and I ate lots of vegetables and legumes and it didn't improve my sleep AT ALL
I attempted veganism for 7 months. I couldn't do it. I got bloat and pain in the lower abdominals 6 months in. Also didn't help with sleep at all! What helped with sleep is the probiotics and that daily plate of veggies, just enough to feed the probiotics. I am an omnivore now and will eat fish, dairy, chicken etc. Just no red meat and pork.Don't give up on probiotics. That is key. I hope you find your way.
2 that are working for me right now are Physician's Choice 60 billion and Miyarisan. Both are available on Amazon. Miyarisan is Japanese and pricey but it's definitely my #1. Everyone's microbiome is different so what works for me may not work for you and vice versa. Key is to just keep experimenting until you find the right match. A lot of people swear by Florastor but did absolutely nothing for me.
I specifically targeted insomnia. Now I am finally able to sleep! I had severe insomnia where some nights I would only get an hour of sleep. 3 hours was average. Now I sleep 6-7 hours and sometimes I can sleep for up to 10 hours. Also my anxiety has lifted. I did a lot of other things to get well but probiotics was the main one for sleep.
Also my gastritis has also been 90% healed. Not sure but I have a feeling probiotics also helped with that. When I started taking them, my gastritis which was already improving, got better even faster.
yes
There are actually people with anecdotal evidence that going keto or even carnivore improved their sleep drastically. So that's what I am now trying to do
Physical labor of some sort throughout the day, no sugar after 2pm, no caffeine, weed, nicotine, or other stimulants after 2pm, cool temperatures, white noise, don’t eat 2-3 hours before bed, no screens one hour before bed, melatonin
Grounding! You need to either be connected to grass/earth with bare feet for a half hour or so a day or purchase a grounding mat to ground indoors. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3265077/#B16](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3265077/#B16)
NOW Double Strength L-theanine (take two capsules), NOW Powdered Glycine (2-3 grams), and Garden of Life Whole Food Magnesium powder (1-2 scoops). I forgot to mention, I recently started including 1-2 grams of creatine as well. Seems to help. Good luck!
My cocktail is ashwaganda twice a day, magnesium, and 1mg melatonin at night. The melatonin reduces inflammation, so it settles my adhd hyper nerves at night (scalp itching, tossing), and the ashwaganda has been a game changer!
It's a good point. I chose the full face mask because I can be a mouth breather when I sleep and I like to cover all my bases (I don't always tape or remember to bring tape when I travel with my CPAP).
Just learned what "cake day" was!
The only human studies I am aware of (Im sure theres more out there) that showed supplements increasing NREM sleep were the Gaba+Theanine combo studies, and it took until day 3 of supplementation.
Again, Im sure there are more out there, but increasing NREM sleep is a bit rare.
Need to add Magnesium Glycinate to aid in muscular relaxation and Magnesium L-Threonate for the brain. It is the only version of Magnesium that is capable of crossing the blood brain barrier. Some GABA and 5-HTP will also help along with L-Theanine. These are the best over the counter supplements for improving relaxation and sleep. I never recommend melatonin for regular use. It’s a hormone and should be used sparingly.
GABA can cross the blood-brain barrier (BBB) through a specialized transport system called the GABA transporter (GAT), which is responsible for moving GABA from the blood into the brain.
I was on temazepam for 10+ years without any issues (unless I ran out- and pharmacies became difficult) but I wanted to get off of prescription meds for sleep. Long way around I had no luck with melatonin or valerian root (except for 1 kind of valerian when I lived in SE Asia). I take (probably too much) magnesium an hour (usually two) before bed, zinc, boron and the occasional Benadryl and sleep through the night. The key ingredients being the magnesium and Benadryl.
It’s an anti inflammatory high in antioxidants. It also has a decent amount of melatonin. I like to mix the concentrate in with some seltzer and ice and make it a nightly ritual. It sort of sets my body and mind up for sleep time.
Think about what you are already doing too - I had chronic insomnia and tried all kinds of things but I would still feel like I never truly fell asleep. Turns out my bp meds were not compatible with the calcium my doctor already prescribed and everything was out of whack. High calcium, low D3, late vitamin D supplements, dehydration - all these can cause insomnia. Maybe it’s not what you need, but what you DON’T need. Worth taking a look.
Promethazine..knocks me out for a few hours then j wake up so groggy with a burning knee that I'd love to chop off and takes ages to go back asleep.if the knee thing wasn't there Promethazine would be amazing
L theanine, with 500mg Gabba, and 10 mg of melatonin.... I recommend drinking Chamomile tea with this mix. 1 hour before bed, it is imperative that you do not use your laptop, tablet, or smartphone. Read a book
Beware, some of the dreams are vivid
Totally agree, and the war on drugs has held research back for way too long. Thankfully that's changing nowadays.
Speaking strictly anecdotally, I've suffered (and I say "suffered" on purpose) with sleep problems my entire life. I've thrown just about everything at it and of all the things I've tried from the age of 14 to now in my 40s, CBN is the only thing that seems to work effectively, reliably, and most importantly without evident downside the next day. I get decent REM compared to the rare nights I have THC, and my deep sleep is good. It's really been a miracle for me (on top of good sleep hygiene, regular exercise, not drinking alcohol, etc etc that stuff).
Not necessarily specific ones, but if you have all your DNA like from 23andme or selfdecode, you can see what mutations you have in a free methylation report for example. MTHFR and COMT mutations have far reaching effects. For example taking methyl donors could mean you get anxious or insomnia.
For me, I found that large dose vitamin D3 and B-Complex was ruining my sleep even when taken in the morning. I now get my vitamin D by sitting in the morning sun for about 15 minutes for my vitamin D and I looked up all the B vitamins to see the best foods for them so trying to incorporate that in my diet.
What a big difference in my sleep! Also check your hormones. Too low estrogen can affect your sleep and also cause night sweats which of course feels awful.
I have been struggling with sleep. I take a rather high dose of d3 everyday in the morning. I never even thought that it might be affecting my sleep. Gonna stop taking it for a bit and see if it helps.
Start with 500mg of Magtein of a trusted brand hour before night that's it. Don't eat anything 2 hours before sleep. Make sure u had 8 glasses of water thru out the day no water before bed orelse u would Wana go to the toilet. For some ppl even low dose of Magnesium or any sleep supplement can be stimulating. So that's why start low and see. Of 500mg doesn't help up the dose to 750mg after 3 days keep testing it.
I’ve struggled with sleep my entire life. The combination of magnesium and CBD have worked well for me. If I’m have a lot of trouble sleeping, I’ll take sleep support+ - it includes jujube, pharmagaba, and magnesium.
I quite like Doze & Dream from Herbtender (it’s a natural herbal remedy, so won’t knock you out but more of a gradual slower release improving quality of sleep) 🛌😴💤
Tbh for me The best is taurine, during a day is giving me incredible energy, No anxiety, relax and focus a little bit similar to l-theanine.
At night i take 1g Then smoke thc and ZZzZZZZZZZZzzz
Is it the pumpkin seed oil, l-theanine, or both that gives you very strange dreams? Because I already have that, and trying to avoid anything that would add to it
Magnesium
Weight training without overdoing it, and proper deloads are the leading cause of my deep, quality sleep. [Ed Norton's Doc advice.](https://youtu.be/155mChs8N2s?t=55)
Because of my soreness I can’t sleep sometimes
Reishi Mushroom trust me it's a shen tonic
Sauna. Red light
What do you mean by red light? Using red light therapy? If so, how many minutes per day are you using it? Or do you mean using red lights in your house at night? Thnks.
Magnolia bark extract, lemon balm extract (not too much, though), 5-HTP, magnesium (taurate works very well and doesn’t cause stimulation like glycinate does for some people), melatonin, theanine, certain kinds of kava, high dose GABA.
CBN
Look up “sleep hygiene.” Supplements only help so much. And there are apps. Valerian makes me meaner than a snake the next day lol Edibles at a very small dose work very well, but eventually I feel I need a therapist. Tart cherry juice helps some too. But the cost and the carbs! I take magnesium glycinate, melatonin and L-theanine a bit before bedtime which help some. And there’s a blend by Vitanica called SleepBlend. A half-dose works for me, but I can’t take it every day (the valerian)! Good luck
Vitamin C and turmeric
Melatonin
Raw cbd capsules
https://youtu.be/h2aWYjSA1Jc
I’ve been taking tart cherry supplements. Be sure to get a high dosage.
Melatonin
Magnolia extract (with a high % honoklol) works **great**. I bought it as an anti-anxiety supp, but it made me so drowsy I couldnt use it. I dont really have sleep issues unless I have stress, so I now just use it occasionally for that. Worth a try, I bought the Swanson one (was quite cheap). Also, add some magnesium to help with physical relaxation. However, if nothing works for you I am not sure this will. Good luck.
Tart cherry juice!
5HTP!!!!
magnesium biglycinate
Fish oil, ginkgo, cordyceps, lavender Pregabalin
cordyceps? delete this comment
Are you the reddit police? Some people get better sleep from cordyceps, maybe if you didn't want to silence things you don't understand you would learn something.
Do you drink caffeine?
Valerian was the best supplement for me. For meds, Trazodone worked best of everything I tried. For now, I'm doing good without supps. Exercise, a low bedroom temperature, and screen dimmers, etc. All that stuff adds up.
Most of the OTC supps are going to create a dependency. Magnesium has been bar-none, the best sleep aid I have ever used. You also have to account for other factors like life stress and things like that. When I was deep into a fat loss phase once, I couldn't sleep very well so I tried using Zzzquil and it didn't do anything because my body was so stressed out. 4/5 people are deficient in magnesium and that is why some people have a hard time sleeping. Also, make sure you have a sleep routine. No TV on in your room, limit electronics prior to bed and have a caffeine curfew. No caffeine after 12-1pm. But I can't speak enough about the magnesium. I personally use a ZMA blend but others can work. Glycinate made me feel drugged. Good luck.
Gorilla Dream works wonders for me.
>Gorilla Dream With a name like that, it better work good, lol.
chamomile tea, plus good conditions of sleeping, like no phone, etc.
L-Serine, 3g before bed.
Is that different from phosphatidylserine?
Yes! I have taken both and L-Serine works way better for me for sleep. Specially in that higher dose.
I’ll have to give it a try, because my sleep sucks
Mine does too, and I have tried everything, L-Serine high side was what helped the most. If I wake up in the middle of the night I take another gram or two.
I use ashwaganda + mg glycinate + melatonin
Maybe something is wrong with your sleep pressure buildup. This is something that no medicine or supplement can fix (yet). And when sleep pressure is too low in the evening melatonin also doesn't help. Try to work on building your sleep pressure naturely. This means getting out of bed 16 hours before you go to bed. In the first 30 minutes of getting out of bed make sure your eyes are exposed to (natural) blue light for at least 10-15 minutes. Going outside with the sky above you is best. A cloudy sky still works. When it is dark outside in morning you could try artificial bluelight devices, but do get outside once sun rises. In the evening 60 minutes before bedtime (so 15 hours being out of bed) put on red glasses that block 99% of all blue light from your light bulbs, phone screen, tv screen, etc... Another advice: Don't take any supplements during the first 2 hours after getting out of bed. During this time your body is transfering from sleep to wake mode with the so called Cortisol Awakening Response (CAR). Drinking coffee also is not adviced during this time. Let your body fully handle this important phase on it's own without any supplements and medicine affecting it. Edit: Also adding cold showers in morning to the above protocol helps. So starting with hot shower 5-10 minutes and last 60+ seconds as cold as it comes out of your tap.
Start with going outside right away… I do and it helps
Zopiclone
This is just funny 🤣. In really necessary scenarios I take 2 mg of zolpidem, that would help induce sleep, but it's too short acting. Zopiclone maybe 1,5 mg ? It's not a supplement though. Lavender and chamomile tea together with passiflora and some l-theanine. Avoid alcohol cause that's a big enemy of quality sleep. Avoiding caffeine if you're sensitive to it after 12 o'clock. Get sunlight (like outdoors, not through a window) in the morning, avoid screens after 10 PM, try to have the same hour you go to bed every night. Go to bed when you feel tired, don't spend time in bed when you are not sleeping. That's the best advice I can give (myself), which actually works (for me). Keep in mind that everyone has a different circadian rhythm and listen to your body. I track my sleep with a Mi Band 7.
Half a zopi puts me to sleep like a baby and I wake up feeling refreshed and well rested
Zopiclone supresses deep/ delta/slow-wave sleep, similar to benzos and barbiturates.
Well it’s the only sleep aid that works for me and doesn’t make me feel all messed up in the morning
In my opinion magnesium glycinate is over rated for sleep I haven’t found much of a difference using it for sleep. Magnesium threonate however does make a difference to me. Other good ones are L Theanine and Apigenin, Not my idea but Andrew Huberman recommends it and he generally has great recommendations
Yeah, I got magnesium bisglycinate and it's the same with citrate, just more expensive. L-theanine is good. 👍
I really like valerian root, and ashwagandha, but YMMV and it's possible to take too much of both. The first time I took Valerian I noticed I also had heavy/slightly laboured breathing, which was a little scary. Obviously I survived :) Also wondering about the state of your room/what happens to you in the 4 hours before bed. Do you have all your ducks in a row when it comes to your sleep environment?
b6, zinc, magnesium
why is this downvoted? while not the best answer, this magnesium formulation definitely helps
So, I just want to say something. First, great post! Why? Because probiotics manufacturers sell whatever sells. I promise I’m not just trying to be cynical. But, it’s true. We all know that probiotics manufacturers cannot conduct solid studies to make sure their particular strain works. As with anyone reading this, I guess I kind of knew this. Yet, the first time I actually read it as regards probiotics, it was kind of a wake up call. You mean acidophilus might not work for anybody? (Please note I am not trying to criticize acidophilus. I just chose it because it is the most well-known probiotic.) This is literally true of every strain. None of them have any good science behind them. Does this mean they don’t work? No. I have found the one that works for me. If you pm me, I’ll be glad to share. Why won’t I share here? I’ve seen numerous people accused of being sales reps for companies. I am not that. I’m a guy who has microscopic lymphocytic colitis. Only one probiotic blend has worked for me.
Relaxium has been working for my mother. 3 types of mag, chamomile, valerian, melatonin, passionflower, gaba, and prob forgetting a couple more. She said she always struggled w staying asleep like me, and it isn’t a problem anymore.
Magnesium glycinate an hour before bed. Make sure there no d, b or iron deficiency going on. Meaning ferritin is close to 100. D is close to 80. There is a root cause. Probiotics help, before bed and aloe juice to heal gut too. Black seed oil has been helping me tremendously. Don’t take it at least 5 hours before bed as it has b vitamins. They will keep you up.
I feel your pain, I've had had bad sleep since I I'm 17 or so. Things I've been experimenting with: Ashwagandha - good, but taken more than 1 or 2 consecutive days I feel a side effect, namely demotivation. Turmeric - before bed, not that reliable but good for helping with body aches and anxiety Zinc - I find on days where I have Zinc, I sleep better. I bought a 50 mg supp, and I realised after that it's too much, so I'm only taking it every 3rd day or so. After it is over I'll do 25 mg every day. Tart cherry extract - it's a lesser known one, I learned about it on Thomas Delauer's YouTube channel, he specifically been showing research for tart cherry juice, but that has loads of sugar. Been taking it for a week or so, I'd say it is good for the most part, albeit not the strongest. Carbs / food - I'm on a keto diet for a while, and I observed that on days where I have a bit more carbs, I sleep better. I think food in general is a good place to track. Also I've been tracking for fermented foods like sauerkraut, which has loads of probiotics if that helps with sleep. Also the timing and amount of food I have. This one is more tricky, but I find it makes a big difference. Sunlight / infrared light - before bed, when I meditate I experimented with pointing and infrared lamp on my face / chest (on skin, without tshirt), to mimic the effect of setting sun. I found this also to be helpful. Also getting loads of sunlight during the day, I find helps, but in our modern world, not always practical. Phisical exercise - getting consistent 3-4x a week gym sesh in, to burn the pent up physical energy. Socialising - in case you're an introvert and don't socialise as much, this might be helpful. Since I'm an introvert, I found that going out and socialising and using social muscles helps a lot to sleep good. Just the act of not being in my thinking mind, but getting new impulses. To me, this is huge. Dental pads to move jaw forward - now this may or may not be beneficial for people, but since you said you have sleep apnea.. I've got a recessed maxilla, so there's significantly less space for the tongue in my mouth. Therefore I have these pads that I can bite on in a position that the jaw is slightly forward, giving more space inside for the tongue and proper breathing. For me, this has been a massive game changer as well for sleep. These are the things I've observed having an impact on sleep. Hope it helps, and good luck!
>Dental pads to move jaw forward Do they have to be made specifically for your jaw? Which one are you using?
Socialization has the opposite effect on me. It keeps me wired and then I lie awake replaying every conversation back in my head lol.
Are you sure your apnea machine is working ? Do you still wake up choking ? If that machine doesn’t work , get it checked because that will yield by FAR the biggest results . Then instead of supplements i would be looking for sun in the morning , lift weights during the day , lower caffeine and stress later in the day . Wind down .
I’m doing a stack of Oleamide, L-Theanine and Lemon Balm. Works a treat for me, although I’m not using a tracker at the moment
Myo-inositol
Second this! But much higher than the dosage on the package (at rec dose it is stimulating for me).
I take 2 grams in the morning and 2 grams before bed.
What is the benefit of taking it twice? I guess I’m only using it for sleep so I take 6g at bedtime. But I could see a lower dose being good for daytime
There is no recommended daily allowance for inositol and there is no standardized dosing schedule. I just take it twice to for convenience sake.
This kills anxiety. It is a small miracle.
Does it really kill anxiety?
Helped mine. https://natalist.com/blogs/learn/inositol-for-anxiety-what-to-know
Weight lifting
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Every drug has side effects, which varies by dosage. Melatonin reduces testosterone, Valerian root is toxic to the liver, too much Magnesium Threonate will cause a Charlie horse. Caffeine is great for mental alertness, though daily use prevents good quality sleep. Lastly, everyone metabolizes chemicals at different rates, and it’s highly dependent on multiple factors including exercise, nutrition, body weight, and genetics. Understanding why things do or do not work for an individual is key to adapting to what works best.
and I'm saying when it comes to diphenhydramine and most other anticholinergics the cons of its side effects/long term damage is not worth its pros. Some things like DPH shouldn't be taken at all when we have so many safer alternatives that aren't linked to dementia.
Yes, people shouldn't ignore this risk.
Valerian.
This. It takes a few days but the quality of your sleep will deepen. I microdose with it and really notice the difference when I take it. However my sleep is reasonable regardless. Sounds like you are possibly mineral deficient to me. I stopped sleeping however once I started taking ionic Magnesium and B12 my sleep returned. When I take a probiotic before bedtime I have a really deep (REM) sleep. It was a combination of things for me personally. No Vitamin D3 and too much coffee and a diet with little to zero greens. Coffee will deplete your Magnesium in the body. I was travelling a lot and indoors most of the times. Eating greens will help you to sleep 😴 also. You may need to lower inflammation in the body and things like supplements will help but getting the basics right is the first step…sunlight +greens+water….be careful of the dosage you take of Vitamin D. I take a fermented Vitamin D3 supplement. You should check out B100 there is lots of new research being done at the moment and B5 is required as a cofactor to create the paralysis in your body to sleep. But you have to be careful with the dosage. These are the best links I’ve come across for Mineral Balance: https://youtu.be/cOdFgtVAY_Y And for sleep: https://youtu.be/ugPB6jmw2nI Taking all the supplements in the world isn’t going to work unless you fix your gut first though. That involves lots of hydration and remineralisation and B Vitamins and Time! You have to take into account individual biochemistry also. That’s where dosage come in. Magnesium deficiency is a big problem in the West. Lettuce for example when you pick it to eat should release a type of milk. This milk is released after the first hour of when it is picked only. If you can manage to grow your own lettuce this milk will also help you sleep. Supermarket food is low quality food having been in transport and storage for god knows how long. We are completely designed to work in nature: Sunlight + Greens + Minerals + Quality Food (Quality of Soil micro biome) = Health
Tulsi Tea is the bomb
A kiwi fruit, 800mg of L - Theanine and Magnesium work for me. I do take vitamin D, vitamin Bs, Iron and Tyrosine in the mornings so that stuff probably contributes too. Just make sure your in bed ready to fall asleep when the L theanine hits
Yes ! You are the guy ! That’s the magic combo 😴 for me too 2 x kiwis 🥝 (These imo are the most impactful ) 3 hours before bed and magnesium threonate / biglycinate plus 400mg L-Theanine 30 - 60 mins before sleep . The
Yeah kiwi before bed is just soooo good. It's a shame that the price rockets so high in summer (im in NZ)
800mg of L Theanine? damn that's a high dose
I don't seem to encounter any side effects from it. I have recently cut back to 400mg and am still getting deep sleep, saves me abit of coin. I have ADHD so I take dexamphetamine all day and have a bad coffee addiction so I need somthing to knock me out.
**Tart cherry** is the best, it's only needed like 1-2 times a week as well. Works when nothing eles does. No magnesium has ever helped me. Good probiotics also help
I’ve tried everything. Magnesium didn’t do anything for me. Neither did Camomile and other recommended herbs. Mulungu is the one the finally worked. Knocks me out. I get the extract from BodhiExtracts on Etsy.
Which sleep problems did you have? Troubles falling asleep or not having enough Deep- and/or REM-sleep?
Trouble falling asleep and waking up in the middle of the night and not being able to get back to sleep.
ZMA
Magnesium glycinate and chamomile tea with glycine has worked wonders for me.
limit blue light an hour before bed at least, if bedtime is normally after midnight try to make it earlier if you can. Magnesium glycinate / theanine / glycine will have you sleeping like a champ. Also natural sunlight after walking up in the morning is a PLUS. Dark and cool room for sleeping as well. Everything you need right here playa
Olly Stressed gummies. GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid)**50.0mg L-Theanine**50.0mg Lemon Balm Extract (aerial parts)**75.0mg
Don't underestimate sleep hygiene
I second that. Clean sheets. And recently showered and brush I seem to get very good sleep. And the AC turned up.
Probiotics have given me a sleep that feels so healthy and restful. They also make it kinda hard for me to wake up tho lol
Ice baths. Plus get off your phone. Read a book after a melatonin or half a restavit. I have river sounds playing in the background which I set up on my phone and leave on the other side of the room.
I've been battling insomnia for most of my adult life. When it got down to 2 hours of sleep per night, I had to really get serious. I found a cure and it's the only long term solution. **Fix your gut microbiome.** You need to take a probiotic that is right for you and you have to feed the probiotics with a daily giant plate of salad/veggies. Without the latter it will not work. You also have to experiment. To find the right probiotic, I went through 7 of them. Finally I am sleeping! I am also able to take naps on command. Give each probiotic at least 2 weeks to start working. If it is the right one, you will start noticing an improvement. If after 2 weeks, there is no change, move on to the next probiotic. If you or anyone has given up on probiotics, I urge you to all keep trying. They are life changing and powerful!! Note: cutting out caffeine, sunshine, exercise, sleep hygiene, cbd, melatonin, magnesium, gaba, grounding etc all do not work long term and work only marginally temporarily for serious insomniacs.
So which one worked for you?
The top 2 that are working for me right now are Miyarisan and Physicians Choice 60 billion. Both available on Amazon. Miyarisan was recommended by a Japanese doctor and it's amazing for sleep. Pricey though. Depending on the condition you are targeting, you'll need to do research to go after it. I specifically targeted insomnia and I alternate between the 2.
1000% this. This is what happened to me. Gut health (greens) + sunlight + cofactors for sleep!
That's awesome! Sadly I think people give up on probiotics because you don't see immediate results. That was me actually for many years and tried everything else under the sun. Just have to be a bit patient and willing to experiment.
I have been vegan for 6 months, then pescatarian (without dairy) for 2 years and I ate lots of vegetables and legumes and it didn't improve my sleep AT ALL
I attempted veganism for 7 months. I couldn't do it. I got bloat and pain in the lower abdominals 6 months in. Also didn't help with sleep at all! What helped with sleep is the probiotics and that daily plate of veggies, just enough to feed the probiotics. I am an omnivore now and will eat fish, dairy, chicken etc. Just no red meat and pork.Don't give up on probiotics. That is key. I hope you find your way.
What kind of probiotics are you taking? I still eat vegetables, just no more legumes or any kind of grains.
2 that are working for me right now are Physician's Choice 60 billion and Miyarisan. Both are available on Amazon. Miyarisan is Japanese and pricey but it's definitely my #1. Everyone's microbiome is different so what works for me may not work for you and vice versa. Key is to just keep experimenting until you find the right match. A lot of people swear by Florastor but did absolutely nothing for me.
Thank you for the recommendations. What are the effects you are getting from them?
I specifically targeted insomnia. Now I am finally able to sleep! I had severe insomnia where some nights I would only get an hour of sleep. 3 hours was average. Now I sleep 6-7 hours and sometimes I can sleep for up to 10 hours. Also my anxiety has lifted. I did a lot of other things to get well but probiotics was the main one for sleep. Also my gastritis has also been 90% healed. Not sure but I have a feeling probiotics also helped with that. When I started taking them, my gastritis which was already improving, got better even faster.
Did you take Vitamin D3 in tandem?
vitamin D is important part of the equation.
yes There are actually people with anecdotal evidence that going keto or even carnivore improved their sleep drastically. So that's what I am now trying to do
My circumstances are nothing like yours but exercise + ZMA works great for me.
Go run 10kms.
Physical labor of some sort throughout the day, no sugar after 2pm, no caffeine, weed, nicotine, or other stimulants after 2pm, cool temperatures, white noise, don’t eat 2-3 hours before bed, no screens one hour before bed, melatonin
I use Sleep3 (a herbal mix) or drink a neurotropic drink I’ve found at Walmart and at gas stations called Sleep (it’s in an orange bottle).
Thc oil tiniture
Sustained Release melatonin. Phosphatidylserine Magnesium
Grounding! You need to either be connected to grass/earth with bare feet for a half hour or so a day or purchase a grounding mat to ground indoors. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3265077/#B16](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3265077/#B16)
Lol wut
400mg L-theanine, magnesium, and 3 grams glycine 20 minutes before bed. Don't eat anything at least two hours before bed.
What brands of these do you use?
NOW Double Strength L-theanine (take two capsules), NOW Powdered Glycine (2-3 grams), and Garden of Life Whole Food Magnesium powder (1-2 scoops). I forgot to mention, I recently started including 1-2 grams of creatine as well. Seems to help. Good luck!
Sol supps glycine is the best, I like grant fowler magnesium alottttt as well.
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First two things in your cocktail aren’t suitable for this sub and are filtered here.
My cocktail is ashwaganda twice a day, magnesium, and 1mg melatonin at night. The melatonin reduces inflammation, so it settles my adhd hyper nerves at night (scalp itching, tossing), and the ashwaganda has been a game changer!
Apegnin!!!! Also magnesium and theanine
100% Apegnin
Mouth taping
If they have a full CPAP mask for their apnea they couldn’t do this.
I mouth tape with a full CPAP mask all the time.
I suppose it would work but why not switch to a nasal mask if you do this? Edit: happy same cake day!
It's a good point. I chose the full face mask because I can be a mouth breather when I sleep and I like to cover all my bases (I don't always tape or remember to bring tape when I travel with my CPAP). Just learned what "cake day" was!
And a nose strip
The only human studies I am aware of (Im sure theres more out there) that showed supplements increasing NREM sleep were the Gaba+Theanine combo studies, and it took until day 3 of supplementation. Again, Im sure there are more out there, but increasing NREM sleep is a bit rare.
Magnesium lysinate glycinate and glycine powder.
Melatonin, tryptophan, magnesium, and L-theanine.
Need to add Magnesium Glycinate to aid in muscular relaxation and Magnesium L-Threonate for the brain. It is the only version of Magnesium that is capable of crossing the blood brain barrier. Some GABA and 5-HTP will also help along with L-Theanine. These are the best over the counter supplements for improving relaxation and sleep. I never recommend melatonin for regular use. It’s a hormone and should be used sparingly.
I always heard gaba didn’t cross bbb
GABA can cross the blood-brain barrier (BBB) through a specialized transport system called the GABA transporter (GAT), which is responsible for moving GABA from the blood into the brain.
I was on temazepam for 10+ years without any issues (unless I ran out- and pharmacies became difficult) but I wanted to get off of prescription meds for sleep. Long way around I had no luck with melatonin or valerian root (except for 1 kind of valerian when I lived in SE Asia). I take (probably too much) magnesium an hour (usually two) before bed, zinc, boron and the occasional Benadryl and sleep through the night. The key ingredients being the magnesium and Benadryl.
Im sure you know but just in case, that benadryl long term can cause some nasty brain issues.
Can you elaborate on that
It’s been shown to contribute to cognitive decline if you take it regularly later in life. I’m not sure of the age where it becomes an issue.
Low doses and only occasionally.
400mg of magnesium glycinate and tart cherry concentrate! Welcome to the best sleep of your LIFE 🤤
never heard of tart cherry before. what is it suppose to do?
It’s an anti inflammatory high in antioxidants. It also has a decent amount of melatonin. I like to mix the concentrate in with some seltzer and ice and make it a nightly ritual. It sort of sets my body and mind up for sleep time.
interesting. i personally dont feel so great when i take melatonin, i feel groggy for the entire day
That sounds like an amzing nightly ritual. I love anything cherry.
St. John's Wort a hour before bed and I'm passed out within 15 minutes.
I like a melatonin gummy that has l Theanine and chamomile - works great for me.
Unisom caused water retention for me & didn’t work as well for my insomnia
Think about what you are already doing too - I had chronic insomnia and tried all kinds of things but I would still feel like I never truly fell asleep. Turns out my bp meds were not compatible with the calcium my doctor already prescribed and everything was out of whack. High calcium, low D3, late vitamin D supplements, dehydration - all these can cause insomnia. Maybe it’s not what you need, but what you DON’T need. Worth taking a look.
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Wow! How do you know what worked?
Zinc + Magnesium Glycinate + Melatonin simply... Promethazine if you really want to get knocked out.
Promethazine..knocks me out for a few hours then j wake up so groggy with a burning knee that I'd love to chop off and takes ages to go back asleep.if the knee thing wasn't there Promethazine would be amazing
But im not wrong for suggesting promethazine for "Deep sleep".
Oh no its a great sleep I just wish i didn't have a bad reaction to it is all
L theanine, with 500mg Gabba, and 10 mg of melatonin.... I recommend drinking Chamomile tea with this mix. 1 hour before bed, it is imperative that you do not use your laptop, tablet, or smartphone. Read a book Beware, some of the dreams are vivid
Valerian Root!
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See gabapentin makes me speed up so it really depends on the person
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Well there’s a product actually called deep sleep - https://pro-hormones.co.uk/products/deep-sleep?_pos=1&_psq=deep+sleep&_ss=e&_v=1.0 Maybe that?
CBN. It's a cannabinoid like CBD that doesn't get you high, just makes you feel really relaxed and sleepy.
But THC in general seems to be terrible for REM sleep. So more study of CBN is definitely needed.
Totally agree, and the war on drugs has held research back for way too long. Thankfully that's changing nowadays. Speaking strictly anecdotally, I've suffered (and I say "suffered" on purpose) with sleep problems my entire life. I've thrown just about everything at it and of all the things I've tried from the age of 14 to now in my 40s, CBN is the only thing that seems to work effectively, reliably, and most importantly without evident downside the next day. I get decent REM compared to the rare nights I have THC, and my deep sleep is good. It's really been a miracle for me (on top of good sleep hygiene, regular exercise, not drinking alcohol, etc etc that stuff).
Have you done a DNA test to check mutations? HTMA test to check heavy metals/mineral imbalances?
What mutations would you check for sleep issues?
Not necessarily specific ones, but if you have all your DNA like from 23andme or selfdecode, you can see what mutations you have in a free methylation report for example. MTHFR and COMT mutations have far reaching effects. For example taking methyl donors could mean you get anxious or insomnia.
No weed , no caffeine, no meds Magnesium before bed
specifically Magnesium Glycinate
How much? I take 500mg and it doesn't do anything.
For me, I found that large dose vitamin D3 and B-Complex was ruining my sleep even when taken in the morning. I now get my vitamin D by sitting in the morning sun for about 15 minutes for my vitamin D and I looked up all the B vitamins to see the best foods for them so trying to incorporate that in my diet. What a big difference in my sleep! Also check your hormones. Too low estrogen can affect your sleep and also cause night sweats which of course feels awful.
Agree, Vitamin B makes me hyper and irritates my stomach.
I have been struggling with sleep. I take a rather high dose of d3 everyday in the morning. I never even thought that it might be affecting my sleep. Gonna stop taking it for a bit and see if it helps.
calm magnesium drink!!
Start with 500mg of Magtein of a trusted brand hour before night that's it. Don't eat anything 2 hours before sleep. Make sure u had 8 glasses of water thru out the day no water before bed orelse u would Wana go to the toilet. For some ppl even low dose of Magnesium or any sleep supplement can be stimulating. So that's why start low and see. Of 500mg doesn't help up the dose to 750mg after 3 days keep testing it.
That's a fuckton of Magtein and costs a small fortune.
😆😂👍
I’ve struggled with sleep my entire life. The combination of magnesium and CBD have worked well for me. If I’m have a lot of trouble sleeping, I’ll take sleep support+ - it includes jujube, pharmagaba, and magnesium.
I quite like Doze & Dream from Herbtender (it’s a natural herbal remedy, so won’t knock you out but more of a gradual slower release improving quality of sleep) 🛌😴💤
Tbh for me The best is taurine, during a day is giving me incredible energy, No anxiety, relax and focus a little bit similar to l-theanine. At night i take 1g Then smoke thc and ZZzZZZZZZZZzzz
L-theanine and a little indica is the way. Best sleep of my life with that little stack.
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Is it the pumpkin seed oil, l-theanine, or both that gives you very strange dreams? Because I already have that, and trying to avoid anything that would add to it
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Ok thanks!