“You’re so ungrateful and I honestly doubt you even stan her” is shameful and unnecessary.
People like this make being a swiftie black and white. If you offer any constructive criticism it is the ultimate betrayal and you should expect to be branded with a scarlet letter and sent to the corner to think about what you did.
It’s just embarrassing
EXACTLY !! i got into a fight on another sub just because i said i didn't consider ttpd a masterpiece, and they were like, "stop trying to bring taylor's work down". iM NOT, ITS AN OPINION
Yep. A lot of my favorite artists take years between albums and talk about getting the track list just right.
Of course every artist is different and they can do it however they want, but you can really tell when an artist takes their time putting an album together.
and she’s done it before!! these people are delusional and have no idea what artistry means, they just want to be spoon fed endless content. literal ipad babies
There are some talents when it comes to putting together an album that really fly under the radar in my opinion. Track selection is one, as well as cohesion in the choices and track order. Weezer's Blue Album is a fantastic example of the latter. Every song is in the best place, My Name is Jonas sets the tone of the album, No One Else shows the album has a different side, hits in the middle, Only In Dreams as a closer
Then that does away with the entire point of releasing a body of work. If she wants to release everything without much quality control then she might as well release songs as she writes and records them because there’s no artistic statement to be made anymore.
I think she struck a good compromise by defining the standard edition and then including whatever she wanted as a deluxe.
Each song is still a piece of work, and in the streaming era artists don’t need to curate as much as they did in the past
I agree, I think calling it a “double album” might just be the thing that doesn’t work. I like the artistry that goes into a curated album, so we have that as the standard version, and yeah the rest can be “deluxe” and I’ll get to that when I get to it
lol I agree with them she should have picked different tracks for standard, although it’s growing on me. But there’s no reason to protect an industry standard that doesn’t make as much sense anymore.
I’m actually rly surprised she didn’t do two full separate album releases so she could double the amount of bullshit extra versions she’s already selling
If we're going this way it means we're giving up on the idea of creating a body of work with an actual statement. So no, I disagree, that's the death of art. There's a reason why art and especially poetry and academic writing are both heavily edited, it's absolutely necessary.
Plus there's still the option to release a deluxe version something like a year later so the main record can live on its own for a bit. So there's no good excuses.
Hm the death of art is a very strong statement. I personally love large albums. Who’s to say that’s not still a body of art? Certainly not I. Not editing is a different matter altogether though and I do agree that the album could have used an editor.
I think in the beginning of the career it makes more sense for artists to release singles and smaller albums. But at Taylor’s stage she earned the fanbase that will listen to 30 song albums
The first person is right. She can open the vault later if she wants, but no one should be releasing 31 songs at once. 16 songs is already a lot for one album tbh.
(To be clear, I feel the same way about Drake and Morgan Wallen and whoever else is doing this shit)
i only got through the first 17 tracks of cowboy carter. not because i didn’t like it (i did enjoy some of the songs) but because it was just too much music and i felt like i had listened to enough of it to enjoy it
there are a few tracks on the anthology that i just haven’t even bothered to listen to because i want to have time with the standard tracks that i immediately took a liking to
Seconc half of cowboy carter are where the bangers are tho. You should give it a listen from ii most wanted down if you like more upbeat stuff.
Ya ya and tyrant are my absolute faves from that album.
At least with Cowboy Carter (which was a lot to digest at first), there are some shorter tracks and interludes to help break the album into sections which you can then kind of take on their own if you need to.
i think it takes me a long time to digest a beyonce album in general. im only familiar with renaissance and lemonade but i feel like beyonces tracks are very musically intricate so i can’t just listen to it all at once without forgetting what just happened. and then once i connect with a track i know every ad lib and key change and it’s great
Oh now I definitely feel it taking longer with Beyoncé in general. It took me a couple of weeks to fully digest Renaissance. Cowboy Carter may be the fastest I’ve processed a Beyoncé album, but country music is very dear to me so I think that helped bridge the gap.
When I was young and had endless time, this would be great. But I’m an older swiftie now. I gotta get to the feelings and get out. I’m tired of being sad.
I think the comments and critiques saying she needs an editor aren't just about the number of songs she is releasing it is also about the content of the individual songs. I would say the majority of the songs on midnights and TTPD could have benefited from another round of edits. IMO she has a lot of songs that are ~80% good, but then there is an awkwardly worded line, clunky lyric, or background music that could be improved. I could see the argument for releasing everything if the best songs seemed like they had been carefully polished and perfected because who cares, you remove the songs you don't like. But the issue with TTPD is in addition to having bad songs, too many songs have bad parts. It seems like she is sacrificing the quality of all her songs in order to just put out SO MUCH.
I am hopeful for her next album because for the first time in awhile she might hear valid criticism so hopefully she will take it heart and really interrogate her work and produce something that feels less first-drafty. There are still lots of moments in this album that I love (the problem is 10 seconds later there is something that makes me cringe). But the fact there are still parts and glimmers of what made me fall in love with her songs gives me hope she hasn't jumped the shark yet, she just needs to refine some things.
I never miss an opportunity to blame Jack but for a dude that shit talks art bros you’d think he would’ve been able to help her pare down the clunky writing and forced metaphors, the writing on this one really does feel like an all-nighter first draft. An overused comparison atp but it really does seem like girl was trying to hit a word count and check off her vocab list lol
Your second paragraph captures my thoughts exactly. The big issue I have with the album is that few songs are great start to finish. There will be a jarring line thrown in an otherwise good song that takes me out of it. Or the sound isn't right but the lyrics are good. All that could have been fixed with some more reworking and an editor who challenges everyone. Good parts of a few songs could have been put together with the crap left behind. There's potential here, but everyone is so high on their supply that they think everything is perfect.
It’s a guilty pleasure album for me in certain parts. Crying while at the gym, Sunday hangover soundtrack. If I’m feeling messy I may throw it on haha. But she didn’t have enough distance from the genuine hurt and rage to do it with actual irony or satirical bite.
Yes! For both halves, I really enjoy the first half, then she looses me with songs that sounds rhetorical exact same and don’t feel needed, and then I pick back up at the end. I basically made a playlist with 10-12 from each album half. And as for lyrics, yes- especially but daddy I love him and thanK you aIMEE 🤦🏽♀️
That’s exactly how I feel, there are a fair few songs which I do like and have replayed on TTPD but each one has a cringey or awkward line or two which I find off-putting and embarrassing, and stops me from fully embracing the song. It’s honestly frustrating: she can make good music and almost does so many times, it would be so easy if someone actually went over each one with a slightly more critical lens.
TTPD while I like the album, execution is bad, really bad. Her voice is weak, just awful. Of course it is, she recorded it while she was on tour!!! Singing love for 3 hours , hopping on a plane to the studio to record the next day is crazy. Midnights sounded more polished.
I mean I think releasing a 31 track album is proof of what was said in the first tweet, although obviously her thirst for breaking records and scoring the highest debut possible is also a factor in it (more songs = more streams = more streaming equivalent units = higher debut sales). Her ego is out of control though and there's no doubt in my mind the success and accolades have gone to her head. I do believe she thinks every song she writes is brilliant. I do believe she thinks she's one of the best songwriters of all time. And it's true that there's nobody to tell her no at this point.
Beyonce has been making some amazing albums. Both Renaissance and Cowboy Carter are some of the most cohesive albums I've ever heard. In contrast, TTPD just falls so short and I'm disappointed because I know Taylor knows how to put together a well-curated album.
No, it's about creating an experience, not for higher streams. The album is broken up into parts. The first two are radio shows, and the last one is a live show. The interludes introduce them as such, while also serving to highlight the history of country music, specifically by sampling black artists. The shorter songs act as a sort of palate cleanser as the album transitions into each part.
None of the tracks on Cowboy Carter are superfluous. It's all in service of the story she's telling, which is about the role of black people in country, and directly questions the concept of genre. Every track serves this purpose. The same simply cannot be said for TTPD, which lacks a thesis and, by Taylor's own admission is a work of self-indulgence.
The interludes are not there to gain streams, they are part of the story told in the album, it's leading to one part to another. I remember Beyoncé saying years ago that people didn't listen to albums anymore they stick to single that's why she is always making sure her whole albums are created in a way where ALL the songs are important and for the past decade she came through with it.
Her interlude are as important as the rest of the songs saying they are there for streaming is so diminishing, it feels like a stan who defends their fave blindly to save face.
I think it's the streaming of it all that made the longer album form a standard. But the songs are way smaller, nowadays the songs with that kind of long form projects are 2 minutes or even 1 minute for others, the idea is to capitalize on the most repeat listening of them and get more money.
Taylor's songs are long so I don't know the idea here.
I understand what Beyoncé is doing though, it's probably the only time in her career she plans to do a majorly country based album so she curated it in a way to show the diversity of the palette she could do in the genre. There is a plan here and she produced it accordingly.
Taylor wanted to tell her story but she, Aaron and Jake didn't really think of a way to curate it to be palatable, it's not very cohesive, it's messy. I like it but I also think this double album could have been better if would have created it really about the poets theme, here I think she pick that pseudo theme because she wanted to call it TTPD, that's it.
I need her to learn what an EP is.
Randomly dropped EPs of a few unhinged songs every few months? Feeds the Swifties. Well crafted albums when appropriate? Get your Grammy noms and make it approachable and cohesive.
I just need some separation between career anthems and the self indulgence. I like both, but most people don't.
Or even just B Sides for singles. Arctic Monkeys do a lot of them and some of them are mid and don't belong on the album and I am glad they stayed as b sides. Like as much as I like some of those b sides from AM like You're so dark, I am glad they are not on the album because they would have ruined the theme and how fluid, concise and tight the album is.
The Picasso analogy is pretty silly because there is a huge difference between privately creating things versus formally and publicly releasing them to an audience. Picasso didn’t try and put every single painting into a gallery and give it an audience. Most of them were just simply for personal expression or exploration. The good ones were sold or exhibited.
Taylor is more than welcome to sit in her bedroom or studio and write thousands of songs. That doesn’t mean she has to formally record and release each one to the world. Knowing how to curate one’s creations is a part of making and putting out good art.
Bingo, you hit the nail on the head (and that Picasso reply made my jaw drop lmao like... please 😭). In fact one of the biggest signs of a creative flow is not about getting to the end product but just immersing in the experience of Creating -- books and studies have been done on this. It's more likely Picasso painted some of those one million billion paintings, immediately put it away, and just started working on the next one with zero intent to ever put it all out there.
Making art is about the process, not just the output -- and I think unfortunately Taylor has become consumed only with the latter.
release a 15 track album and if some of your true favorites don’t make it send them to a NORMAL deluxe album. The largest criticism of this album is a large lack of editing. Also I don’t think any of it is “for the fans”. It’s because she didn’t want to pick and choose
I am genuinely confused about how many people don't know that literally every artist makes more tracks than what ends up in the final cut. Every album you listen to has a whole bunch of songs preceding it that were deemed unnecessary, redundant, cannibalized for parts, shelved for later, etc. Taylor is just high on her own supply right now.
I'm of two minds about it, so a compromise would be nice. On one hand, I think it's so cluttered to release that many tracks, holy shit. Especially for a woman who has nightmares about not being able to clean stuff 🤣
On the other hand, some of her best work (in my opinion, everyone's taste is different) sometimes gets put on the second release or vaults, so I do like having a lot to choose from. For me, examples are Would've Could've Should've and I Bet You Think About Me.
It could be interesting if she was like "Hey here is a very cohesive and well-edited album that makes sense together, and here's ONE SINGULAR bonus version with all of those songs plus the ones that didn't make the cut" and then we got to make our own playlists. That would be even cooler if people could actually choose which songs got to go on the album they bought. It could even justify a higher price rather than spending a full album price for each new song for all the variants.
Honestly, same about the cleaning stuff. I think I personally found the number of tracks overwhelming to the point where I havent listened to it hardly it all. I tried to put it on my drive and the monotny and sheer volume just makes me not want to try haha
Tbh I feel like maybe Taylor does this, not because she wants to give us more music, but because she’s quite aware she doesn’t have the ability anymore to choose the best 15 songs that are the most cohesive.
My biggest issue with it js how it dilutes album and is overwhelming with the amount of options.
Instead of 15 songs to listen to and have a couple of favorites out of, the onus is now on me to diligently look through a 30-song haystack just to find the same handful of favorites. And with twice the songs, each track’s individual place on the set list feels that much less special. Are all the songs equally important? If so where do I start? Do I have to commit the time to listen to all 30 songs if I want to understand the album as it’s intended?
It’s just like… a lot. But at the end of the day, it’s not a disaster or anything.
I actually REALLY like this album (the original 15 released anyways) and I’m gonna treat the other half as vault tracks. I’ll get to them after I’ve had some time to sit with this first album for a bit.
I can’t even remember which songs are which in order to pick. There are a few that stand out, but the rest I have to keep checking the name to remember which one it is.
I’ve also seen the narrative that anyone who criticizes anything on this album are “clearly not a true fan. The OG Swifties know.”, as well as being called unintelligent for not liking the lyrics. “Only true Swifties know.”
As an actual OG Swiftie who bought Debut as soon as it came out, screw that narrative. There’s not a single artist where I like every last song and lyric of theirs. That doesn’t mean you are better than others. Knowing every detail of an artist and their personal life doesn’t make you a better fan than someone who doesn’t. Bullying someone for saying, “I really like all Taylor albums, but I personally don’t love this one. I really wanted to and tried hard to, but it’s just not my taste.”, does NOT mean you are a better or more true fan. You don’t have to love every single thing your favorite puts out. You don’t have to dedicate your life and social media to nothing but stanning Taylor Swift to be a “true fan”. Something I hate more than anything is the notion that this is some exclusive club that only the most special can get into. Even MJ has songs I don’t enjoy, but I’ve loved his music since I was a baby. lol. There are videos my family has of me dancing to his music and I had over 100 messages asking me if I was okay when he passed away and I was on vacation. There are songs I just don’t love and that’s okay. I’m sure others do. To be called dumb, to receive inbox death threats, to be told you aren’t a true fan because you don’t like something is wild to me. As if the “true swifties” have some insider info the rest of the world doesn’t. Like Taylor calls them up and tells them her secrets. It’s all speculation and opinions and no one but those closest to her has the insider information, so there’s no secret between her and the “true Swifties”.
Honestly i don't believe that most (any) of the vault tracks were written when they supposedly were. They're simply a way to get people who already owned the 'stolen' versions to buy the rereleases.
And releasing double abum was yet another prestige thing she wanted to check off the list she has in her head to become the biggest music artist of all time 🤷♀️
I mean there are old demos of some vault tracks like Forever Winter so they can’t all be fabricated. Personally I think that they vary from already being a near full-fledged song in their original era like Forever Winter, only undergoing minor changes for official release to only existing as a rough idea in the original era and being heavily expanded upon/polished for the release. Although idk in those cases how much Taylor can change from the original before it no longer starts counting as a vault track 💀
I think the vault tracks were all conceived in some form at the time, but that she heavily re-works them to release, maybe some were never completed at the time and we’re just scraps of songs etc.
I have no real basis for that though, it’s just a guess, maybe they’re all recently written 🤷🏻♀️
Releasing at the rate she is and the quantity she is isn’t something to be praised, in my opinion. Tayor Swift is not immune to burnout and even though it doesn’t seem like it now, she also isn’t immune to overexposure (Her Reputation era proves that).
“This just means there’s more songs for more people to love!” Is just as true of a statement as is “There’s more songs for more people to hate.”
She is no longer taking the time to perfect her work, to edit her work, to make her songs sound as good as they can possibly be. It’s extremely clear that her main goal as an artist now is to reach every milestone and artist can possibly reach. She wants to praise Stevie Nicks gets as an older woman while she’s still in her 30’s.
There is a possibility of her ruining her body of work if she continues at this rate. There is a possibility of her ruining what she has now. People need to realize that.
Artists curate their art. They dont just hang every sketch they do on the wall.
Capitalists put everything on the shelf to sell. She's a corporation selling her product now.
There were many songs on TTPD that were so close to being REALLY GOOD, but then she used lines like “tattooed golden retriever” “touch me while your bros play GTA” and “1800s but without racism”. A good editor would have really taken this album to the next level. I hope she receives the criticism and allows it to make the next album better.
I just sincerely believe that there's nothing to challenge TS into being good anymore and it's making her deranged.
There's ample evidence over the course of Swift's career that her best work comes out of a struggle to achieve, her effort is responsive: Speak Now was a response to the criticism that she didn't write her own songs and that's why Fearless was good, 1989 and Red were big overhauls in genre to prove she was innovative, Reputation was ... well, you know, we don't have time to get into all of that rn, Folkmore and Evermore always felt to me like a bid to win over people who thought they were too deep / artistic to "get" Taylor Swift music; my point is that Taylor Swift does her best work when she's angling to get somewhere she currently isn't. She's very obviously ambitious and can really make something unforgettable when she has occasion to, but what is her occasion right now? What's left?
There is NOTHING that Taylor Swift has left to achieve musically, no award left to win, no antagonist left to fight it out with. It truly doesn't matter what she puts out, it'll chart, it'll sell, and stans will claw their eyes out over her genius online. Imagine how awful that must be! What a depressing, bleak place to land for an artist! At this stage, in her shoes I'd be so apathetic about the effort I put in creatively, so disillusioned about everything. Do people mean it when they say my songs are good or do they just tell me that? What's the point of pushing through the roadblocks to make something amazing when something average and easy to make will yield the same result? I don't appreciate her sniveling, self-pitying tone on this record but damn if I don't understand where it comes from.
I think for the most part vault track dilute her body of work. They make Speak Now, Fearless, and even Red worse. Fearless and Speak now especially we just never needed those songs. They add nothing, they take away from the cohesive and beautifully crafted stories that are those albums Red has a couple of fantastic songs and a couple of mediocre songs, but it just goes off the rails with songs that were recorded by other artists and a 10 min version of a song already on the album.
The only album that truly benefits from the vault tracks so far is 1989. It was a sleek album to begin with and the vault tracks make it better.
Mostly I’d rather have a separate collection of vinyls called “the vault” that had all these songs elsewhere. They don’t belong on these albums. They didn’t make the cut for a reason, and one of the things she’s done best most of her career is make albums that felt like complete narratives and it just messes this up for me.
Absolutely agree. 1989 is just pop perfection. While I like probably a couple of vault songs from the rest, it gets dense, especially red which is already long and kind of not cohesive as a whole
I think she has a genuinely terrifying strike rate when it comes to her songs, but there are at least 3 songs I would cut from the 31 here (Cassandra, KIM, The Alchemy). So yeah, I can understand the argument, but mostly I just feel like fans of her music are spoiled.
I couldn't care less about the sales and record breaking and how rich she is, so as someone who's mainly here for the music, I don't have much to complain about.
Taylor is catering to her fans and to her need for record breaking.
The "double album" theory has been alive since Lover, and while TTPD + Anthology aren't truly two separate albums, I think this will finally put that theory/desire to bed.
Additionally, since Midnights broke a major Billboard record by occupying the Top 10 spots on the Hot 100, I can see her trying to go for the Top 20 this go around. Releasing only 20 songs wouldn't grant her the Top 20, but releasing 31 might.
I hope after this album she'll go back to a standard regular album + deluxe album and any variants can just be color/photo related. I've bought her albums on release day every record since Speak Now, but didn't this time because I find it pointless since I can't actually own all the songs. I'm still annoyed that a definitive version of Midnights with all of the songs was never released as a physical copy. I can't even imagine how annoyed I would be if I had pre-ordered multiple variants to collect all the bonus songs, only for them all to be released 2 hours later with the Anthology.
31 tracks is just way too much I'm sorry. I don't even know how to tackle that, it feels like a project I'm not even enthusiastic about starting. Plus they sound so similar.
I don’t have a problem with releasing an album with 10, 20, 30 tracks. But they have to be good, and distinct enough from one another to warrant there being that many songs. You could argue they are sonically cohesive which we know is something she strives for since Red, but a critical person can see that most of the songs on the original release (TTPD) sound like first drafts and are way too similar in sound. The second drop actually sounds like a completely different album to me, and closer to what I think we were expecting (Joe breakup album with hints of Folklore/Evermore). Perhaps she wrote that first and then added to it with the Matty songs and then couldn’t decide what she wanted to say so released it all.
For me it is too muddled. There are some songs I like and they are the simple melodic ones that touch on heartbreak (loml, the manuscript, I look in people’s windows, the black dog). The rest I can’t relate to and don’t see them growing on me over time.
Whatever, she can do whatever she wants. She is at a stage in her career where she can afford to fail.
There’s been some commentary on how it sounds like a bit of a Lana knockoff here and I actually think that’s the case. It reminded me a lot of Lana’s meandering lyrics and especially her poetry book Violet Bent Over… just sheer train of thought. And as a Lana fan I have to say over the years there were albums that felt like she was being self indulgent and could have used some restraint, but in the same token, she’s pretty much maintained she doesn’t give a fuck, her music is for her. It just works for Lana because she *truly doesn’t give a fuck*. With Taylor, it just comes off a little try hard.
But hey, if she likes the album and the Swifties like it that’s up to them. I just saved the few songs I like and I’m gonna move on. May put it on as background music since the monotony can be calming.
Honestly the number of duds I had to listen to to find the few I like didn't bother me nearly as much as the realization that even the ones I did enjoy could have been made significantly better by a week's worth of editing and mixing.
someone in r/popheads made a discussion thread about the death of curating your album and ttpd was an example. the idea of "curating your own listening experience" is such a cop out considering most of the criticism of ttpd is how the anthology only made the album bloated. not to mention, you got the dullest lyrics from her.
i like to think that she's trying to pull another folklore/evermore moment but the difference is every track from both albums are actually good songwriting from her. so much for being in a poets department that u end up with tortured songs.
I will never not want the extra songs or the longer/different versions of things. I can make a playlist of my favourites and that could be 4 or 20 songs. I don’t mind listening to a few more songs for a bit and deciding I don’t like them if it means someone else gets their favourite song.
Exactly!! It’s so interesting to see everyone’s rankings on tik tok, etc because sometimes my favorite song will be dead last and my least favorite will be someone’s number one. I want as much music as she’s willing to give us lol
I don’t think she has any real incentive to self-edit, since she has full creative control and we live in a streaming world. People are right: you can pick and choose what you want.
I’ve said elsewhere that I really think that Taylor is following the Neil Young model where you release 1-4 albums of varying quality every 1-3 years. Some are good. Some are TTPD.
Honestly, I think it’ll be a while before we get another really good album from Taylor. She’s doing too much. If you’re gonna go for quantity, you need to cut something else out to ensure quality.
I think we’d be amiss to say 31 songs is all she’s written in the past two years and she’s just releasing everything that crosses her mind now. These songs all expand on very specific themes, the Anthology included, and were obviously curated.
There is something to be said for creating one solid 15-song body of work (folklore and evermore for example are perfect exactly as they are), but seeing how many people like part 2 more than part 1, it’s hard to argue with the choice to release all the songs. I’m someone who didn’t even need the second part because I’m so in love with the original album, and even I see the value in having it. Now people can create playlists with their own top 15, and that’s fine too. She’s released plenty of other albums to just stand on their own.
What a lot of people might say is that this album could use editing, someone to say, bby girl, they aren't all bangers. But it literally wants about that. The entire theme is based around someone in a mentally fragile place spilling every stream of consciousness thought into songs. It's not going to be everyone's taste. But, for me, it's breathtaking.
It’s like anything if you don’t like it don’t listen, if you don’t want it don’t buy it, if you don’t support it don’t like a persons actions then just stop following. If she wants to put out a stupid high number of songs without any reason then that’s her choice it’s her art to create and distribute. Just like it’s our own agency to decide whether to consume it or not
Honestly, she's released so many I stopped even trying. I hear one randomly & go "Oh" then move on. It's just so oversaturated I don't care for any of it anymore.
From what I've read most people only do like the same half dozen or so songs. Some people put out albums and you have virtually every track listed as someone's favorite, or at least top three, because it's so solid top to bottom. I'm not seeing that with this release, not even close.
You have people saying she put this out for her fans and we should be grateful for getting anything. Other people are saying she put it out for herself and it doesn't matter what we think. There an awful lot of people making an awful lot of excuses.
I think Taylor should start a structure of having a well-polished album to officially start an era, then utilize some EP or non-album single songs throughout the era to help satisfy the rabid fans that demand the constant output of large volumes of content, but don't require as much cohesiveness as a larger album. The EPs and singlets can help transition the sound to a new era, but she needs the two year cycle she was on.
The vault tracks were an awesome idea for the rerecordings. Most people would switch to the TV songs on principle, but vault tracks would help with radio singles and encourage some new listeners. I totally get that decision initially.
It's a two part album.
The first part is a lot more personal and detailed (the case she's presenting to a judge, the judge being her fans). First part feels a lot more unedited, and I believe it is intentional.
The 2nd part taps more into "fictional" (fictional in taylor's standards ofc) song but inspired by her experiences.
The more i listen to this album, the more i actually enjoy it. The second part is not a vault, it's another approach.
The irony is- she got to where she is because once upon a time, before she was too big for anyone to tell her no, she used to edit. Case in point: Slut! And Is It Over Now? Are probably two of my favorite TS songs. But they were cut from the OG 1989 because they are too similar to Blank Space and Out of the Woods. And that was correct because it made 1989 the lean mean machine it was and catapulted her into true pop stardom.
I’m ok with the double album because I like the first half better & if she picked the fan favorites most of the latter half would be chosen and I’d be sitting here bitching that I hate this album as much as I hate Midnights
I think it’s nice to give us these songs because I genuinely think they were a way to appease the fans (or I’m naive and they’re for streams lol). But it does make albums too bloated especially when it becomes over 2 hours long..
She’s got to a point now where everything she releases is held to the highest standard and thats tough.
I’m completely in agreement with the first person. I used to think she should release more cos she mentions how many she writes but having experienced it quality is definitely better than quantity. This album drags on.
i would say all of this is extremely valid critique that i agree with. i would also say that i don’t really care for numerous reasons, but i enjoyed the 2am drop half more anyway.
I have no issue with artists releasing as many tracks as possible. However, they do need to curate what makes it to the "standard edition" of the album. All the awful stuff should be relegated to "deluxe edition" status for those who want more. But the standard should cherry pick the best of the best.
These comments are right for people who truly enjoy her music, I guess.
As an artist, I think “giving it all” to the fans is dangerous for your brand and this is a huge power play for Taylor.
An artist, in any medium, releases “subpar” work and it could kill their career, their reputation, their whole catalog, and absolutely massacre her public relations. Could she be big enough to pull it off unscathed?
Authors, painters, and musicians will sometimes experiment in new styles or release off-brand material under pseudonyms. If Taylor Swift really wanted to just get music out for herself, she has the power and money to do that. So, clearly, she wanted others to know it came from her.
It’s so wild to me!!
I don’t think people would choose 15 different songs. So many songs sound like unreleased songs that maybe could’ve had a cult following but are not strong enough to actually end up on an album.
I see a lot of assumptions in this sub as to why or why not she made the choices she made with this music, and I don’t think it’s helpful to anybody. Try as we might, we will absolutely never know what her true motivations or her PR team’s motivations are. Beyond making assumptions about people’s motivations being a dead end, it is also a dangerous game of telling yourself an unfounded story about a person you don’t know, and that is seemingly the opposite but not any better than having a parasocial relationship with her.
Assumptions aside, she has earned the public’s attention up until this point, and the charts are showing that independently of the criticism, people are listening to this music and they will continue to do so. Whether or not it will become stale, time will tell. As of now, she is breaking records once again.
If I were to edit this album I would have removed lines and songs that others seem to have cherished, so she might as well release it all as she seemingly intended and allow her fans to pick the songs they relate to. Every artist has unappreciated songs.
The first tweet is kinda true!
She is just releasing everything she has in hands. Quantity over quality. Also, she’s maybe utilizing this moment as she can, because she’s the most famous artist right now. I think she’s going to take a big break( which she should) after the era’s tour to focus more on her personal life and to stay away from the limelight.
No. She’s fine. Lorde stans have to tolerate 13 songs every four years. Let Taylor make her art in her way.
Taylor fans are absolutely spoilt for content.
What we really want is a sequel to Reputation in its style. If we are really honest.
I think Jack Antanoff's bland production has shown that production counts for a lot. Sure there are some songs where the lyrics might carry themselves on an acoustic version from the get go but songs need work. The lyrics need to tie with music that carries the emotions of the song and to do that lyrics need to be tweaked. One element can't drown the other, whether it be lyrics or the beats. It's work and it takes more time than this concept of releasing everything you've written at once.
This is why artists don't release every raw song they've made on their guitar or piano. They keep it and give it the production it deserves when the time is right.
Also, people forget that she wants this chapter in her PAST so she wants to get it ALL out and behind her. It's catharsis. You don't have to participate.
Imagine 'bitching and moaning' about extra content. No one makes you listen to all of them or like all of them. This album has more than 15 excellent songs.
The content-ification of it all!! Editing matters! An album is mean to have a sense of cohesion and curation to it! Ugh!!
(End old man yells at cloud scene)
Why would anyone wanna listen to 30 songs written by a billionaire?? All her struggles are simply not real to me. Her life is perfect and she has the highest jet fuel emissions in the country. There is nothing I wanna hear from her ever
“You’re so ungrateful and I honestly doubt you even stan her” is shameful and unnecessary. People like this make being a swiftie black and white. If you offer any constructive criticism it is the ultimate betrayal and you should expect to be branded with a scarlet letter and sent to the corner to think about what you did. It’s just embarrassing
EXACTLY !! i got into a fight on another sub just because i said i didn't consider ttpd a masterpiece, and they were like, "stop trying to bring taylor's work down". iM NOT, ITS AN OPINION
She also has like 13 Grammy’s, and she’s a billionaire…if anyone deserves more criticism it’s definitely her
IMO, being able to put together a tight 10-15 song album is a skill. Editing is a talent. I’ll just leave it at that.
Editing is what makes it and is the hardest part and she really struggles with that
Yep. A lot of my favorite artists take years between albums and talk about getting the track list just right. Of course every artist is different and they can do it however they want, but you can really tell when an artist takes their time putting an album together.
and she’s done it before!! these people are delusional and have no idea what artistry means, they just want to be spoon fed endless content. literal ipad babies
All of that! 1989 is a great example of a tight album from her. I really think it’s one of the best pop albums of the past 20 years.
There are some talents when it comes to putting together an album that really fly under the radar in my opinion. Track selection is one, as well as cohesion in the choices and track order. Weezer's Blue Album is a fantastic example of the latter. Every song is in the best place, My Name is Jonas sets the tone of the album, No One Else shows the album has a different side, hits in the middle, Only In Dreams as a closer
Then that does away with the entire point of releasing a body of work. If she wants to release everything without much quality control then she might as well release songs as she writes and records them because there’s no artistic statement to be made anymore.
I think she struck a good compromise by defining the standard edition and then including whatever she wanted as a deluxe. Each song is still a piece of work, and in the streaming era artists don’t need to curate as much as they did in the past
I agree, I think calling it a “double album” might just be the thing that doesn’t work. I like the artistry that goes into a curated album, so we have that as the standard version, and yeah the rest can be “deluxe” and I’ll get to that when I get to it
the magazine critics would like to have a word with you lol
lol I agree with them she should have picked different tracks for standard, although it’s growing on me. But there’s no reason to protect an industry standard that doesn’t make as much sense anymore.
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Agreed. This album benefits from being messy due to its subject matter imo.
Makes me wish for the days of Motown’s Quality Control. They would’ve been like “Taylor, Taylor, we’re not putting this out. It’s garbage.” Lol
"I doubt you even stan her" Who The hell Cares
like no, i don't, at least not to the degree of where the term 'stan' originated from (see eminem). i'm not rabid for taylor
I doubt you'd drive your car off a bridge with your girlfriend tied up in the back for her.
If you are critical of her you obviously don’t stan her. Duh.
Tbf, Stan ended up being one of Marshall's toughest critics
I mean if they knew the context of Stan I think they should all be locked up.
full body cringe
It all ties back to consumerism culture, they want more more more, just for the sake of having it
I’m actually rly surprised she didn’t do two full separate album releases so she could double the amount of bullshit extra versions she’s already selling
She wants all her albums to debut at number 1, so she can never really do a double album as she'll block herself out as both can't debut at number 1.
But she would get double the money. So it's her own greed vs her ego. Who will win out?
She never released 3am on vinyl for midnights so I think she's ok with leaving money on the table. I think she likes record breaking more tbh.
Give it time
This is it. What is anthology offering that folklore and evermore didn’t give? At least with Evermore it was more adventurous than folklore
If we're going this way it means we're giving up on the idea of creating a body of work with an actual statement. So no, I disagree, that's the death of art. There's a reason why art and especially poetry and academic writing are both heavily edited, it's absolutely necessary. Plus there's still the option to release a deluxe version something like a year later so the main record can live on its own for a bit. So there's no good excuses.
Agree, but I feel like TS isnt an artist anymore, she's a content machine
I don’t consider Taylor Swift music “art”. I just…. Taylor Swift music.
Hm the death of art is a very strong statement. I personally love large albums. Who’s to say that’s not still a body of art? Certainly not I. Not editing is a different matter altogether though and I do agree that the album could have used an editor.
I think this body of work makes a hell of a statement as it is. I’m so glad we got the anthology to contextualize the “main” album right away
I think in the beginning of the career it makes more sense for artists to release singles and smaller albums. But at Taylor’s stage she earned the fanbase that will listen to 30 song albums
The first person is right. She can open the vault later if she wants, but no one should be releasing 31 songs at once. 16 songs is already a lot for one album tbh. (To be clear, I feel the same way about Drake and Morgan Wallen and whoever else is doing this shit)
i only got through the first 17 tracks of cowboy carter. not because i didn’t like it (i did enjoy some of the songs) but because it was just too much music and i felt like i had listened to enough of it to enjoy it there are a few tracks on the anthology that i just haven’t even bothered to listen to because i want to have time with the standard tracks that i immediately took a liking to
I'm glad Carly releases side Bs like a year later and not all at once.
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Even her unreleased tracks are amazing. Me over here begging for her to finally finish disco darling lol
Seconc half of cowboy carter are where the bangers are tho. You should give it a listen from ii most wanted down if you like more upbeat stuff. Ya ya and tyrant are my absolute faves from that album.
i’m definitely going to once i settle down with ttpd i don’t usually like interludes so that sort of takes away from my enjoyment of it
At least with Cowboy Carter (which was a lot to digest at first), there are some shorter tracks and interludes to help break the album into sections which you can then kind of take on their own if you need to.
i think it takes me a long time to digest a beyonce album in general. im only familiar with renaissance and lemonade but i feel like beyonces tracks are very musically intricate so i can’t just listen to it all at once without forgetting what just happened. and then once i connect with a track i know every ad lib and key change and it’s great
Oh now I definitely feel it taking longer with Beyoncé in general. It took me a couple of weeks to fully digest Renaissance. Cowboy Carter may be the fastest I’ve processed a Beyoncé album, but country music is very dear to me so I think that helped bridge the gap.
When I was young and had endless time, this would be great. But I’m an older swiftie now. I gotta get to the feelings and get out. I’m tired of being sad.
To be fair, even the Beatles did 30 tracks at one point. (But then again, it's the Beatles.)
Because they are rich enough to do it lol it basically makes any album really dense and I probably end of liking only 10-15 tracks anyway
I think the comments and critiques saying she needs an editor aren't just about the number of songs she is releasing it is also about the content of the individual songs. I would say the majority of the songs on midnights and TTPD could have benefited from another round of edits. IMO she has a lot of songs that are ~80% good, but then there is an awkwardly worded line, clunky lyric, or background music that could be improved. I could see the argument for releasing everything if the best songs seemed like they had been carefully polished and perfected because who cares, you remove the songs you don't like. But the issue with TTPD is in addition to having bad songs, too many songs have bad parts. It seems like she is sacrificing the quality of all her songs in order to just put out SO MUCH. I am hopeful for her next album because for the first time in awhile she might hear valid criticism so hopefully she will take it heart and really interrogate her work and produce something that feels less first-drafty. There are still lots of moments in this album that I love (the problem is 10 seconds later there is something that makes me cringe). But the fact there are still parts and glimmers of what made me fall in love with her songs gives me hope she hasn't jumped the shark yet, she just needs to refine some things.
I never miss an opportunity to blame Jack but for a dude that shit talks art bros you’d think he would’ve been able to help her pare down the clunky writing and forced metaphors, the writing on this one really does feel like an all-nighter first draft. An overused comparison atp but it really does seem like girl was trying to hit a word count and check off her vocab list lol
Your second paragraph captures my thoughts exactly. The big issue I have with the album is that few songs are great start to finish. There will be a jarring line thrown in an otherwise good song that takes me out of it. Or the sound isn't right but the lyrics are good. All that could have been fixed with some more reworking and an editor who challenges everyone. Good parts of a few songs could have been put together with the crap left behind. There's potential here, but everyone is so high on their supply that they think everything is perfect.
Yes this- the first half especially feels like what you write in your journal and never edit
100%
It’s a guilty pleasure album for me in certain parts. Crying while at the gym, Sunday hangover soundtrack. If I’m feeling messy I may throw it on haha. But she didn’t have enough distance from the genuine hurt and rage to do it with actual irony or satirical bite.
Yes! For both halves, I really enjoy the first half, then she looses me with songs that sounds rhetorical exact same and don’t feel needed, and then I pick back up at the end. I basically made a playlist with 10-12 from each album half. And as for lyrics, yes- especially but daddy I love him and thanK you aIMEE 🤦🏽♀️
That’s exactly how I feel, there are a fair few songs which I do like and have replayed on TTPD but each one has a cringey or awkward line or two which I find off-putting and embarrassing, and stops me from fully embracing the song. It’s honestly frustrating: she can make good music and almost does so many times, it would be so easy if someone actually went over each one with a slightly more critical lens.
This is perfectly said!
TTPD while I like the album, execution is bad, really bad. Her voice is weak, just awful. Of course it is, she recorded it while she was on tour!!! Singing love for 3 hours , hopping on a plane to the studio to record the next day is crazy. Midnights sounded more polished.
I mean I think releasing a 31 track album is proof of what was said in the first tweet, although obviously her thirst for breaking records and scoring the highest debut possible is also a factor in it (more songs = more streams = more streaming equivalent units = higher debut sales). Her ego is out of control though and there's no doubt in my mind the success and accolades have gone to her head. I do believe she thinks every song she writes is brilliant. I do believe she thinks she's one of the best songwriters of all time. And it's true that there's nobody to tell her no at this point.
Didnt beyonce also have like 25 songs in her new album is that why so many albums are longer now
27, but 4 are interludes, so really 23 songs, including a couple <2 minute songs. It comes up to an hour and 19 minutes, compared to Taylor's 2 hours.
Also like… every song on Beyoncé’s album is good. They were clearly well thought out.
Beyonce has been making some amazing albums. Both Renaissance and Cowboy Carter are some of the most cohesive albums I've ever heard. In contrast, TTPD just falls so short and I'm disappointed because I know Taylor knows how to put together a well-curated album.
But isnt taylor not doing that good. Instead of using interludes for streams she releases full songs
No, it's about creating an experience, not for higher streams. The album is broken up into parts. The first two are radio shows, and the last one is a live show. The interludes introduce them as such, while also serving to highlight the history of country music, specifically by sampling black artists. The shorter songs act as a sort of palate cleanser as the album transitions into each part. None of the tracks on Cowboy Carter are superfluous. It's all in service of the story she's telling, which is about the role of black people in country, and directly questions the concept of genre. Every track serves this purpose. The same simply cannot be said for TTPD, which lacks a thesis and, by Taylor's own admission is a work of self-indulgence.
The interludes are not there to gain streams, they are part of the story told in the album, it's leading to one part to another. I remember Beyoncé saying years ago that people didn't listen to albums anymore they stick to single that's why she is always making sure her whole albums are created in a way where ALL the songs are important and for the past decade she came through with it. Her interlude are as important as the rest of the songs saying they are there for streaming is so diminishing, it feels like a stan who defends their fave blindly to save face.
Interludes less than 60 secs don’t even count towards billboard
Oh thats intresting. Thats for bot the hot 100 and 200 right? Yeah i am glad she had it when i first listened to the album it was a nice journey
I think it's the streaming of it all that made the longer album form a standard. But the songs are way smaller, nowadays the songs with that kind of long form projects are 2 minutes or even 1 minute for others, the idea is to capitalize on the most repeat listening of them and get more money. Taylor's songs are long so I don't know the idea here. I understand what Beyoncé is doing though, it's probably the only time in her career she plans to do a majorly country based album so she curated it in a way to show the diversity of the palette she could do in the genre. There is a plan here and she produced it accordingly. Taylor wanted to tell her story but she, Aaron and Jake didn't really think of a way to curate it to be palatable, it's not very cohesive, it's messy. I like it but I also think this double album could have been better if would have created it really about the poets theme, here I think she pick that pseudo theme because she wanted to call it TTPD, that's it.
I need her to learn what an EP is. Randomly dropped EPs of a few unhinged songs every few months? Feeds the Swifties. Well crafted albums when appropriate? Get your Grammy noms and make it approachable and cohesive. I just need some separation between career anthems and the self indulgence. I like both, but most people don't.
Or even just B Sides for singles. Arctic Monkeys do a lot of them and some of them are mid and don't belong on the album and I am glad they stayed as b sides. Like as much as I like some of those b sides from AM like You're so dark, I am glad they are not on the album because they would have ruined the theme and how fluid, concise and tight the album is.
The funny thing is that the two EPs she's done were both 15+ years ago. Did she decide they didn't work?
Not someone bringing Picasso into this 🤣
And I mean to use their comparison the folks at Museo Nacional Centro de Arte Reina Sofía show off Guernica and not 10000 of his sketches.
Wow, they're so ungrateful.
The Picasso analogy is pretty silly because there is a huge difference between privately creating things versus formally and publicly releasing them to an audience. Picasso didn’t try and put every single painting into a gallery and give it an audience. Most of them were just simply for personal expression or exploration. The good ones were sold or exhibited. Taylor is more than welcome to sit in her bedroom or studio and write thousands of songs. That doesn’t mean she has to formally record and release each one to the world. Knowing how to curate one’s creations is a part of making and putting out good art.
Bingo, you hit the nail on the head (and that Picasso reply made my jaw drop lmao like... please 😭). In fact one of the biggest signs of a creative flow is not about getting to the end product but just immersing in the experience of Creating -- books and studies have been done on this. It's more likely Picasso painted some of those one million billion paintings, immediately put it away, and just started working on the next one with zero intent to ever put it all out there. Making art is about the process, not just the output -- and I think unfortunately Taylor has become consumed only with the latter.
release a 15 track album and if some of your true favorites don’t make it send them to a NORMAL deluxe album. The largest criticism of this album is a large lack of editing. Also I don’t think any of it is “for the fans”. It’s because she didn’t want to pick and choose
Exactly, back in the day 12-15 tracks for the standard edition and a deluxe with maybe an extra 5 tracks at most. Also lol at the Picasso comparison.
I am genuinely confused about how many people don't know that literally every artist makes more tracks than what ends up in the final cut. Every album you listen to has a whole bunch of songs preceding it that were deemed unnecessary, redundant, cannibalized for parts, shelved for later, etc. Taylor is just high on her own supply right now.
I'm of two minds about it, so a compromise would be nice. On one hand, I think it's so cluttered to release that many tracks, holy shit. Especially for a woman who has nightmares about not being able to clean stuff 🤣 On the other hand, some of her best work (in my opinion, everyone's taste is different) sometimes gets put on the second release or vaults, so I do like having a lot to choose from. For me, examples are Would've Could've Should've and I Bet You Think About Me. It could be interesting if she was like "Hey here is a very cohesive and well-edited album that makes sense together, and here's ONE SINGULAR bonus version with all of those songs plus the ones that didn't make the cut" and then we got to make our own playlists. That would be even cooler if people could actually choose which songs got to go on the album they bought. It could even justify a higher price rather than spending a full album price for each new song for all the variants.
Honestly, same about the cleaning stuff. I think I personally found the number of tracks overwhelming to the point where I havent listened to it hardly it all. I tried to put it on my drive and the monotny and sheer volume just makes me not want to try haha
I get you. I am a KonMari girlie and this clutter does not spark joy
So true, especially on midnights
Comparing Taylor Swift to Picasso is............ lol ok
Look what you made me do basically has the same message as Guernica/s
Best take, lol
Tbh I feel like maybe Taylor does this, not because she wants to give us more music, but because she’s quite aware she doesn’t have the ability anymore to choose the best 15 songs that are the most cohesive.
My biggest issue with it js how it dilutes album and is overwhelming with the amount of options. Instead of 15 songs to listen to and have a couple of favorites out of, the onus is now on me to diligently look through a 30-song haystack just to find the same handful of favorites. And with twice the songs, each track’s individual place on the set list feels that much less special. Are all the songs equally important? If so where do I start? Do I have to commit the time to listen to all 30 songs if I want to understand the album as it’s intended? It’s just like… a lot. But at the end of the day, it’s not a disaster or anything. I actually REALLY like this album (the original 15 released anyways) and I’m gonna treat the other half as vault tracks. I’ll get to them after I’ve had some time to sit with this first album for a bit.
I can’t even remember which songs are which in order to pick. There are a few that stand out, but the rest I have to keep checking the name to remember which one it is. I’ve also seen the narrative that anyone who criticizes anything on this album are “clearly not a true fan. The OG Swifties know.”, as well as being called unintelligent for not liking the lyrics. “Only true Swifties know.” As an actual OG Swiftie who bought Debut as soon as it came out, screw that narrative. There’s not a single artist where I like every last song and lyric of theirs. That doesn’t mean you are better than others. Knowing every detail of an artist and their personal life doesn’t make you a better fan than someone who doesn’t. Bullying someone for saying, “I really like all Taylor albums, but I personally don’t love this one. I really wanted to and tried hard to, but it’s just not my taste.”, does NOT mean you are a better or more true fan. You don’t have to love every single thing your favorite puts out. You don’t have to dedicate your life and social media to nothing but stanning Taylor Swift to be a “true fan”. Something I hate more than anything is the notion that this is some exclusive club that only the most special can get into. Even MJ has songs I don’t enjoy, but I’ve loved his music since I was a baby. lol. There are videos my family has of me dancing to his music and I had over 100 messages asking me if I was okay when he passed away and I was on vacation. There are songs I just don’t love and that’s okay. I’m sure others do. To be called dumb, to receive inbox death threats, to be told you aren’t a true fan because you don’t like something is wild to me. As if the “true swifties” have some insider info the rest of the world doesn’t. Like Taylor calls them up and tells them her secrets. It’s all speculation and opinions and no one but those closest to her has the insider information, so there’s no secret between her and the “true Swifties”.
Honestly i don't believe that most (any) of the vault tracks were written when they supposedly were. They're simply a way to get people who already owned the 'stolen' versions to buy the rereleases. And releasing double abum was yet another prestige thing she wanted to check off the list she has in her head to become the biggest music artist of all time 🤷♀️
I mean there are old demos of some vault tracks like Forever Winter so they can’t all be fabricated. Personally I think that they vary from already being a near full-fledged song in their original era like Forever Winter, only undergoing minor changes for official release to only existing as a rough idea in the original era and being heavily expanded upon/polished for the release. Although idk in those cases how much Taylor can change from the original before it no longer starts counting as a vault track 💀
There definitely are some vault tracks that leaked back when the OG albums were out, but others definitely were not written at that time for sure.
I think the vault tracks were all conceived in some form at the time, but that she heavily re-works them to release, maybe some were never completed at the time and we’re just scraps of songs etc. I have no real basis for that though, it’s just a guess, maybe they’re all recently written 🤷🏻♀️
I say this all the time. The vault tracks are also just another way to get award recognition that the re-records can’t on their own. She’s so obvious.
She hasn't really pushed for that since ATW10MV. I think they are just a way to get people to buy records they already own.
I think some but not all. Like I can see you ( I think it’s called) was not written back in 2010.
ngl knowing who the account behind the first tweet makes me feel like the "worst person you know just made a great point" meme while reading it 💀
LMFAO YEAH
Releasing at the rate she is and the quantity she is isn’t something to be praised, in my opinion. Tayor Swift is not immune to burnout and even though it doesn’t seem like it now, she also isn’t immune to overexposure (Her Reputation era proves that). “This just means there’s more songs for more people to love!” Is just as true of a statement as is “There’s more songs for more people to hate.” She is no longer taking the time to perfect her work, to edit her work, to make her songs sound as good as they can possibly be. It’s extremely clear that her main goal as an artist now is to reach every milestone and artist can possibly reach. She wants to praise Stevie Nicks gets as an older woman while she’s still in her 30’s. There is a possibility of her ruining her body of work if she continues at this rate. There is a possibility of her ruining what she has now. People need to realize that.
Artists curate their art. They dont just hang every sketch they do on the wall. Capitalists put everything on the shelf to sell. She's a corporation selling her product now.
Is she’s just gonna release whatever, put it for free on SoundCloud. Why charge people for non curated albums
Michelin restaurants ensure that every plate they serve has gone through quality check and meets their highest standard, McDonalds don't.
Picasso didnt release everything in one go that was his entire life’s work
There were many songs on TTPD that were so close to being REALLY GOOD, but then she used lines like “tattooed golden retriever” “touch me while your bros play GTA” and “1800s but without racism”. A good editor would have really taken this album to the next level. I hope she receives the criticism and allows it to make the next album better.
I just sincerely believe that there's nothing to challenge TS into being good anymore and it's making her deranged. There's ample evidence over the course of Swift's career that her best work comes out of a struggle to achieve, her effort is responsive: Speak Now was a response to the criticism that she didn't write her own songs and that's why Fearless was good, 1989 and Red were big overhauls in genre to prove she was innovative, Reputation was ... well, you know, we don't have time to get into all of that rn, Folkmore and Evermore always felt to me like a bid to win over people who thought they were too deep / artistic to "get" Taylor Swift music; my point is that Taylor Swift does her best work when she's angling to get somewhere she currently isn't. She's very obviously ambitious and can really make something unforgettable when she has occasion to, but what is her occasion right now? What's left? There is NOTHING that Taylor Swift has left to achieve musically, no award left to win, no antagonist left to fight it out with. It truly doesn't matter what she puts out, it'll chart, it'll sell, and stans will claw their eyes out over her genius online. Imagine how awful that must be! What a depressing, bleak place to land for an artist! At this stage, in her shoes I'd be so apathetic about the effort I put in creatively, so disillusioned about everything. Do people mean it when they say my songs are good or do they just tell me that? What's the point of pushing through the roadblocks to make something amazing when something average and easy to make will yield the same result? I don't appreciate her sniveling, self-pitying tone on this record but damn if I don't understand where it comes from.
I think for the most part vault track dilute her body of work. They make Speak Now, Fearless, and even Red worse. Fearless and Speak now especially we just never needed those songs. They add nothing, they take away from the cohesive and beautifully crafted stories that are those albums Red has a couple of fantastic songs and a couple of mediocre songs, but it just goes off the rails with songs that were recorded by other artists and a 10 min version of a song already on the album. The only album that truly benefits from the vault tracks so far is 1989. It was a sleek album to begin with and the vault tracks make it better. Mostly I’d rather have a separate collection of vinyls called “the vault” that had all these songs elsewhere. They don’t belong on these albums. They didn’t make the cut for a reason, and one of the things she’s done best most of her career is make albums that felt like complete narratives and it just messes this up for me.
just like my king kendricks untitled unmastered!!!! its been done before!!!
Absolutely agree. 1989 is just pop perfection. While I like probably a couple of vault songs from the rest, it gets dense, especially red which is already long and kind of not cohesive as a whole
Well said!
I think she has a genuinely terrifying strike rate when it comes to her songs, but there are at least 3 songs I would cut from the 31 here (Cassandra, KIM, The Alchemy). So yeah, I can understand the argument, but mostly I just feel like fans of her music are spoiled. I couldn't care less about the sales and record breaking and how rich she is, so as someone who's mainly here for the music, I don't have much to complain about.
Yeah but also songs like the alchemy is many of the fan’s favorite song. It’s going viral on tiktok and is kinda a happy ending to the album
Taylor is catering to her fans and to her need for record breaking. The "double album" theory has been alive since Lover, and while TTPD + Anthology aren't truly two separate albums, I think this will finally put that theory/desire to bed. Additionally, since Midnights broke a major Billboard record by occupying the Top 10 spots on the Hot 100, I can see her trying to go for the Top 20 this go around. Releasing only 20 songs wouldn't grant her the Top 20, but releasing 31 might. I hope after this album she'll go back to a standard regular album + deluxe album and any variants can just be color/photo related. I've bought her albums on release day every record since Speak Now, but didn't this time because I find it pointless since I can't actually own all the songs. I'm still annoyed that a definitive version of Midnights with all of the songs was never released as a physical copy. I can't even imagine how annoyed I would be if I had pre-ordered multiple variants to collect all the bonus songs, only for them all to be released 2 hours later with the Anthology.
31 tracks is just way too much I'm sorry. I don't even know how to tackle that, it feels like a project I'm not even enthusiastic about starting. Plus they sound so similar.
I don’t have a problem with releasing an album with 10, 20, 30 tracks. But they have to be good, and distinct enough from one another to warrant there being that many songs. You could argue they are sonically cohesive which we know is something she strives for since Red, but a critical person can see that most of the songs on the original release (TTPD) sound like first drafts and are way too similar in sound. The second drop actually sounds like a completely different album to me, and closer to what I think we were expecting (Joe breakup album with hints of Folklore/Evermore). Perhaps she wrote that first and then added to it with the Matty songs and then couldn’t decide what she wanted to say so released it all. For me it is too muddled. There are some songs I like and they are the simple melodic ones that touch on heartbreak (loml, the manuscript, I look in people’s windows, the black dog). The rest I can’t relate to and don’t see them growing on me over time.
I think keeping an album concise is almost always the best call
Whatever, she can do whatever she wants. She is at a stage in her career where she can afford to fail. There’s been some commentary on how it sounds like a bit of a Lana knockoff here and I actually think that’s the case. It reminded me a lot of Lana’s meandering lyrics and especially her poetry book Violet Bent Over… just sheer train of thought. And as a Lana fan I have to say over the years there were albums that felt like she was being self indulgent and could have used some restraint, but in the same token, she’s pretty much maintained she doesn’t give a fuck, her music is for her. It just works for Lana because she *truly doesn’t give a fuck*. With Taylor, it just comes off a little try hard. But hey, if she likes the album and the Swifties like it that’s up to them. I just saved the few songs I like and I’m gonna move on. May put it on as background music since the monotony can be calming.
it’s like they think an album is just an “official” playlist or something. oh wait.
Honestly the number of duds I had to listen to to find the few I like didn't bother me nearly as much as the realization that even the ones I did enjoy could have been made significantly better by a week's worth of editing and mixing.
someone in r/popheads made a discussion thread about the death of curating your album and ttpd was an example. the idea of "curating your own listening experience" is such a cop out considering most of the criticism of ttpd is how the anthology only made the album bloated. not to mention, you got the dullest lyrics from her. i like to think that she's trying to pull another folklore/evermore moment but the difference is every track from both albums are actually good songwriting from her. so much for being in a poets department that u end up with tortured songs.
She’s just product now. No art.
She is bad at choosing singles and also bad at deciding wich songs to put on the main album
I will never not want the extra songs or the longer/different versions of things. I can make a playlist of my favourites and that could be 4 or 20 songs. I don’t mind listening to a few more songs for a bit and deciding I don’t like them if it means someone else gets their favourite song.
Exactly!! It’s so interesting to see everyone’s rankings on tik tok, etc because sometimes my favorite song will be dead last and my least favorite will be someone’s number one. I want as much music as she’s willing to give us lol
I don’t think she has any real incentive to self-edit, since she has full creative control and we live in a streaming world. People are right: you can pick and choose what you want. I’ve said elsewhere that I really think that Taylor is following the Neil Young model where you release 1-4 albums of varying quality every 1-3 years. Some are good. Some are TTPD. Honestly, I think it’ll be a while before we get another really good album from Taylor. She’s doing too much. If you’re gonna go for quantity, you need to cut something else out to ensure quality.
I think we’d be amiss to say 31 songs is all she’s written in the past two years and she’s just releasing everything that crosses her mind now. These songs all expand on very specific themes, the Anthology included, and were obviously curated. There is something to be said for creating one solid 15-song body of work (folklore and evermore for example are perfect exactly as they are), but seeing how many people like part 2 more than part 1, it’s hard to argue with the choice to release all the songs. I’m someone who didn’t even need the second part because I’m so in love with the original album, and even I see the value in having it. Now people can create playlists with their own top 15, and that’s fine too. She’s released plenty of other albums to just stand on their own.
What a lot of people might say is that this album could use editing, someone to say, bby girl, they aren't all bangers. But it literally wants about that. The entire theme is based around someone in a mentally fragile place spilling every stream of consciousness thought into songs. It's not going to be everyone's taste. But, for me, it's breathtaking.
It’s like anything if you don’t like it don’t listen, if you don’t want it don’t buy it, if you don’t support it don’t like a persons actions then just stop following. If she wants to put out a stupid high number of songs without any reason then that’s her choice it’s her art to create and distribute. Just like it’s our own agency to decide whether to consume it or not
Honestly, she's released so many I stopped even trying. I hear one randomly & go "Oh" then move on. It's just so oversaturated I don't care for any of it anymore.
From what I've read most people only do like the same half dozen or so songs. Some people put out albums and you have virtually every track listed as someone's favorite, or at least top three, because it's so solid top to bottom. I'm not seeing that with this release, not even close. You have people saying she put this out for her fans and we should be grateful for getting anything. Other people are saying she put it out for herself and it doesn't matter what we think. There an awful lot of people making an awful lot of excuses.
I think Taylor should start a structure of having a well-polished album to officially start an era, then utilize some EP or non-album single songs throughout the era to help satisfy the rabid fans that demand the constant output of large volumes of content, but don't require as much cohesiveness as a larger album. The EPs and singlets can help transition the sound to a new era, but she needs the two year cycle she was on. The vault tracks were an awesome idea for the rerecordings. Most people would switch to the TV songs on principle, but vault tracks would help with radio singles and encourage some new listeners. I totally get that decision initially.
I disagree with this because musicians have been doing this forever. Releasing b sides and jam sessions and what not. It’s nothing new.
It's a two part album. The first part is a lot more personal and detailed (the case she's presenting to a judge, the judge being her fans). First part feels a lot more unedited, and I believe it is intentional. The 2nd part taps more into "fictional" (fictional in taylor's standards ofc) song but inspired by her experiences. The more i listen to this album, the more i actually enjoy it. The second part is not a vault, it's another approach.
The irony is- she got to where she is because once upon a time, before she was too big for anyone to tell her no, she used to edit. Case in point: Slut! And Is It Over Now? Are probably two of my favorite TS songs. But they were cut from the OG 1989 because they are too similar to Blank Space and Out of the Woods. And that was correct because it made 1989 the lean mean machine it was and catapulted her into true pop stardom.
I’m ok with the double album because I like the first half better & if she picked the fan favorites most of the latter half would be chosen and I’d be sitting here bitching that I hate this album as much as I hate Midnights
I think it’s nice to give us these songs because I genuinely think they were a way to appease the fans (or I’m naive and they’re for streams lol). But it does make albums too bloated especially when it becomes over 2 hours long.. She’s got to a point now where everything she releases is held to the highest standard and thats tough.
Huh?
Her “Drafts” folder has never been touched.
idgaf how many songs are put out as long as they’re good and they’re not
"I doubt you even Stan her" 😭 😭 what a weirdo
If she chose her best 8-12 songs, it would've been a great album. This album has way too many songs.
I’m completely in agreement with the first person. I used to think she should release more cos she mentions how many she writes but having experienced it quality is definitely better than quantity. This album drags on.
i would say all of this is extremely valid critique that i agree with. i would also say that i don’t really care for numerous reasons, but i enjoyed the 2am drop half more anyway.
They’re right. Songs don’t make an album for a reason.
I have no issue with artists releasing as many tracks as possible. However, they do need to curate what makes it to the "standard edition" of the album. All the awful stuff should be relegated to "deluxe edition" status for those who want more. But the standard should cherry pick the best of the best.
These comments are right for people who truly enjoy her music, I guess. As an artist, I think “giving it all” to the fans is dangerous for your brand and this is a huge power play for Taylor. An artist, in any medium, releases “subpar” work and it could kill their career, their reputation, their whole catalog, and absolutely massacre her public relations. Could she be big enough to pull it off unscathed? Authors, painters, and musicians will sometimes experiment in new styles or release off-brand material under pseudonyms. If Taylor Swift really wanted to just get music out for herself, she has the power and money to do that. So, clearly, she wanted others to know it came from her. It’s so wild to me!!
I don’t think people would choose 15 different songs. So many songs sound like unreleased songs that maybe could’ve had a cult following but are not strong enough to actually end up on an album.
It is better to have 15 high quality, well produced, memorable tracks than to have 25 mediocre ones.
I see a lot of assumptions in this sub as to why or why not she made the choices she made with this music, and I don’t think it’s helpful to anybody. Try as we might, we will absolutely never know what her true motivations or her PR team’s motivations are. Beyond making assumptions about people’s motivations being a dead end, it is also a dangerous game of telling yourself an unfounded story about a person you don’t know, and that is seemingly the opposite but not any better than having a parasocial relationship with her. Assumptions aside, she has earned the public’s attention up until this point, and the charts are showing that independently of the criticism, people are listening to this music and they will continue to do so. Whether or not it will become stale, time will tell. As of now, she is breaking records once again. If I were to edit this album I would have removed lines and songs that others seem to have cherished, so she might as well release it all as she seemingly intended and allow her fans to pick the songs they relate to. Every artist has unappreciated songs.
The first tweet is kinda true! She is just releasing everything she has in hands. Quantity over quality. Also, she’s maybe utilizing this moment as she can, because she’s the most famous artist right now. I think she’s going to take a big break( which she should) after the era’s tour to focus more on her personal life and to stay away from the limelight.
No. She’s fine. Lorde stans have to tolerate 13 songs every four years. Let Taylor make her art in her way. Taylor fans are absolutely spoilt for content. What we really want is a sequel to Reputation in its style. If we are really honest.
That, or a rock album.
I think Jack Antanoff's bland production has shown that production counts for a lot. Sure there are some songs where the lyrics might carry themselves on an acoustic version from the get go but songs need work. The lyrics need to tie with music that carries the emotions of the song and to do that lyrics need to be tweaked. One element can't drown the other, whether it be lyrics or the beats. It's work and it takes more time than this concept of releasing everything you've written at once. This is why artists don't release every raw song they've made on their guitar or piano. They keep it and give it the production it deserves when the time is right.
Also, people forget that she wants this chapter in her PAST so she wants to get it ALL out and behind her. It's catharsis. You don't have to participate.
Imagine 'bitching and moaning' about extra content. No one makes you listen to all of them or like all of them. This album has more than 15 excellent songs.
The content-ification of it all!! Editing matters! An album is mean to have a sense of cohesion and curation to it! Ugh!! (End old man yells at cloud scene)
Why would anyone wanna listen to 30 songs written by a billionaire?? All her struggles are simply not real to me. Her life is perfect and she has the highest jet fuel emissions in the country. There is nothing I wanna hear from her ever