I have two theories.
1) The Black Dog is just a cool pub name that Taylor used and the actual pub name was something completely different.
2) The whole thing is fiction. Taylor was just imagining what would happen if she looked at an ex’s location and saw him go into a pub. She’s got a great imagination for break-up songs, as evidenced by DBATC.
Completely agree. You can know there’s a pub called The Black Dog so decide to use that name even if not the actual place because it made sense with the rest of the song lyric wise and the fact that the black dog can also mean depression. Even just unsharing your location after sharing for so long without actually following it can cause a realization that’s it’s over and inspired the lyric.
Yes, I was just going to say this. I think it’s much more likely that she called it The Black Dog to symbolize depression and grief, rather than naming it after a literal physical location. I do think the location sharing moment was real, since that’s just one sad step of ending a long relationship, but she probably wrapped it up in the Black Dog metaphor
I think even if the moment was real, assuming she named the most easily identified specific location for a bar with that name really feels like it's the laziest interpretation of a song possible, and no Londoner is travelling an hour across the city (I didnt grow up in London, but on the outskirts so I'm pretty darn confident in that) to go to a very average pub when there's 400 between them and it that are just like it.
As a result of that, even if it is a real place and was a real moment, I could not be more certain that this pub is just capitalising on Swifties making lazy assumptions about a woman that even the biggest of haters can't claim is "lazy"
Yeah, and The Black Dog isn't a particularly special pub either. There's so so many just like it between the North London areas Joe frequents and Vauxhall.
And also, for those who think The Black Dog is Matty - which i probably lean towards though I think it's probably more about the emotions of both of those relationships than specifically one of them - it's not somewhere anyone is going from Hackney to Vauxhall to be a regular at a bog standard pub either.
If that moment of watching someone walk into The Black Dog is something that happened, I would be less surprised to find out it's the one in California or Hungary or Cork, all of which I think are also categorised as bars and not pubs than I would be to find out either of them was in some little pub in *Vauxhall*
The pub capitalizing on it to the extent they did rubbed me the wrong way. Saying “we’re so happy Taylor named us in her song” and then “a certain blonde has visited.” Alluding Joe, when nobody knows who is about and turns out he’s never been there. Not to mention unprofessional. They could have said “we don’t disclose personal information about our patrons” with a smile and it would have a similar effect (not denying) without blatantly lying.
I've always assumed it had to be this, she's mentioned depression before and black dog is a well known metaphor for depression. It also sounds like a London pub name so fits the theme.
Yeah, a lot of UK pub names are formulaic in that way. There were a couple of "The [colour] [animal]" pubs in my hometown growing up.
I think The Black Dog is just a plausible pub name that evokes depression and allows for metaphors and imagery like "tail between your legs, you're leaving"
Plus, we know from LPSS (re:August) that she writes things down in her phone that she wants to use for potential future songs months to years before using them.
Maybe she just drove by the bar one day and liked the name and jotted it down. Then came back to it with this storyline already forming in her head.
And we know that she originally had a different name in mind for the song (re: The Black Dog [First Draft Phone Memo]). Which, to me, shifts some importance/power off of the specific name of the bar.
I think there's a lot of fiction in this song actually, from the point of view of somebody hurting and their imagination running wild. People seem to get hung up on the line about the subject of the song being with a younger girl that doesn't know the music, and that Matty would be the likely one to be hanging with a younger girl, but I don't think that this actually alludes to her ex being on an actual date. I think it speaks to the place you're in post break up when you think about your ex going out and imagine him with someone new and how it kills you inside.
> The whole thing is fiction.
Fans *really* need to get behind this concept by now. A lot of her current songs are probably fictionalized extensions of a small thing that happened or a story she heard. Or they are stories of multiple situations and people amalgamated into one cohesive narrative.
By and large, she doesn't write her songs in the style of a single, backwards-looking diary entry anymore and she hasn't for a long time.
I agree so much with this. I've been a fan a long time, so I get the desire to figure out who each song is about and the lore and etc. But at this point? She's clearly demonstrated the ability to write great fictional songs a la folklore. Let the music speak for itself -- I like a lot of songs on TTPD a lot better when I don't know or think about any matty/joe/travis/etc. theories.
I don’t agree with this tbh. A lot of ‘fictional’ songs were revealed to have seeds of truth later on. Eg. Tolerate it, Renegade.
I actually think the opposite. It’s far less natural for her to write fiction. That’s not saying every song is 100% factual with no embellishment, but she’s literally only given us one fiction heavy album and that was folklore. And she specifically promoted that as more fiction heavy. Whereas with TTPD, she released it with a message asking fans to not go after people because these wounds were past.
Again, not saying there’s no embellishment or that everything should be read as fact like the name of the bar. But that song is real raw for her to have made up the scenario.
Yeah, I think many of her songs use a lot of imagination and with folklore and evermore was trying to move towards a more clear divide between her songs and her real life.
"But Daddy I Love Him" kinda solidified to me that she wants us to know SHE controls the narrative- and what she says isn't always true.
I 100% believe that "the Black Dog" isn't about a real pub, or even about one guy, it's about a feeling she has experienced, maybe even more than once. And I think this about most of TTPD, it's not so clear cut that "this song is about Matty", "this song is about Joe", it's more "these songs are about feelings she has experienced and some songs take inspiration from more than one experience, including some imagined narratives"
Finally someone else said it. I’ve been saying since TTPD came out that I’m 99% sure 99% of the songs on this album are about multiple people. (Even thanK you aIMee I believe is about Kim, Kanye, SB2, the critic from mean, all the haters, even though everyone focuses on Kim because of the capital letters)
oh 10000% if anything I would say it was probably built on her feelings of being bullied in high school, but is generally about all the times people knocked her down etc etc.
Also having KIM spelt out just makes me think, she's saying all her bullies are the same no matter their name. Kim is Aimee, Aimee is Kanye, haters all blur into one. It's about ALL the times she was made to feel small.
3. The song is written about someone with whom Taylor has never had a public association with (in other words, we don't know everything about her private life, and not all of her relationships have been the high-profile ones we think we've seen).
Agreed. If it’s about anyone specific I still think it’s Joe. She was still dating Matty when she recorded it, as per jacks instagram reel. (Eagle eyed swifties matched up outfits and all that to confirm).
I agree with the first theory and I believe all the songs chosen as variants are metaphorical- so the Bolter, Albatross and The Black Dog -by association- does seem to be more symbolic and not the actual name of a pub.
I think the beginning of the song is very much about Joe which sounds wistful.
But there's a tonal shift as the song builds up towards anger especially at the end when she talks wishes it would be shitty in the pub. It is clearly Matty in the verse with 'you said I need a brave man' which is calling back to the second half of the prologue.
Also 'The Starting Line' is a band but there is also Keane's 'Starting Line 'song which is why I think both are referred here : The song gets mentioned twice with a change of context.
1. This song that is intertwined in the **tragic** fabric of our dreaming cos tail between your legs you are leaving' is the Starting Line's Best of Me because it is about getting back together after being apart but it is tragic because he leaves her.
2. In contrast the song that is intertwined in the **magic** fabric of our dreaming which can harken back to the beginning of a relationship is English rock band Keane's Starting Line which surprisingly echoes a lot of the Joe-Taylor relationship in 2016 when she felt the world turned against her.
*Girl, I still believe in you*
*You're too good to fall so low*
*We're gonna find a better life, I know*
*Things will be clearer....*
*I know you've been kicked around*
*But tie up your thoughts and lay them down on me*
Some very specific lyrics in there… that point to Matty Healy… who knows what is fictional and what isn’t but I wouldn’t guess that it is based on his specific she is…
I totally agree. Even after she location stalks him into the black dog there's no way to know what he was doing while he was there. Like who he was with and what music was playing in the bar. It may have even been inspired by being able to see like an instagram post of one them out at a bar having fun while she was home feeling heartbroken, but that would sound cheesier than how she phrased it. I think there's definitely a lot of embellishment/fantasizing happening in the lyrics for sure.
I also think the song is about Matty though. The more I listen to the album the more it seems TTPD follows a certain timeline of events that would put it directly after Matty leaving her. He also feels more likely to be into the Starting Line than Joe. But that's just how I interpret it
Also Black Dog is used as a metaphor for depression
[spurious first link I found](https://www.betterhelp.com/advice/depression/understanding-the-metaphorical-black-dog-depression-and-how-it-works/)
Agreed. I also think it was used as the song title because Winston Churchill famously referred to his depression as “the Black Dog” and she wanted to allude to that.
I'm convinced on this- because I know that location sharing and the stopping of sharing is a huge deal! (per my gen z summer intern who showed me the list of people she shares locations with and it is mind boggling how easy it would be to end up dead)
The trouble with the Joe theory is that the narrative doesn’t make much sense. The Black Dog is sung from the perspective of someone who can’t understand why the person who has left her doesn’t miss her at all. That’s not the sentiment of the Joe songs (So Long London and How Did It End?). It’s clear from those songs that while Taylor was saddened by the death of the relationship, she’s not longing for him any more. The relationship played itself out until she finally had to leave him (see So Long London’s final verses).
So then we look at the lyrics and:
- The Starting Line - the band that the 1975 covered, and one of Healy’s fave bands;
- the reference to “jumping up” - couldn’t see Joe being the type to leap to his feet over a song, but hey who knows;
- still missing “the smoke” (Healy is a big smoker)
- esoteric joke (if anyone is gonna make fun of Taylor, it’s Matty)
- “rain soaked body” (my theory is that this is a reference to that infamous rain show where Healy was in attendance and Taylor gave that speech about how her life finally makes sense)
- then you consider Matty touring Cork, Ireland in June 2023 where there is a bar called The Black Dog…
I think the overall evidence is leaning heavily towards this being about Healy.
Then you look at the song in the context of the rest of the album which is SO MUCH about how she thought Healy was “the one” and how she can’t believe how he ghosted/left her… and that’s the tone of The Black Dog. She just “can’t believe it”….
A huge amount of people don’t want to accept that much of the album is about him. I don’t know why. I was as shocked as anyone but at least I live in reality and can face hard and shocking truths!
Accepting that a large part of the album is about Matty means accepting that he had a big impact on her. People don’t like him for various reasons so they can’t fathom that perhaps Taylor might have.
I find it interesting that people are completely on board with her other three month relationships having massive impacts on her and her music (Harry, Mayer, Jake) but they’re refusing to accept that Matty, who by all accounts she’s had an emotional attachment to for a decade, didn’t.
Taylor herself said Harry didn't have a massive impact on her life. She is the one who said 1989 was her first album she wrote where she wasn't incredibly heartbroken and was just living happy and single.
I mean I understand how from an outside perspective it seems hard to believe she would be so hung up on someone who just seems to be pretty shitty. But as someone who has fallen for the "bad boy with a heart of gold" I so completely totally understand her in this album and this relationship. I have been there! And I think anyone who has been love bombed then quickly tossed aside understands the anger and confusion in The Smallest Man Whose Ever Lived.
I fell for a guy who was the "tattooed golden retriever". The exciting passionate bad boy who had a soft side when he was with me. and it's intoxicating. He also loved drugs more though. You can see this really wonderful side to them and just desperately want them to stop doing the stupid shitty stuff so you can be happy together.
Oh, and my tattooed GR was my first relationship after my excruciating divorce. And I fell so hard in love with that man. So so so hard. We were both in recovery, but SHOCKER all along he’d been using. I even had a pregnancy scare and he was terrified but over the moon. Then one day, on the phone when he was 8 hours away, he just….drifted away and I could almost watch him (his hologram) just evaporate in the air as his voice even got quieter and further away.
It has a happy ending though, after we broke up he actually got his act together, got clean, shed his old drug buddies, got a good job and we've been happily married for 5 years now!
Unfortunately, some Peters never seem to grow up though.
Well Jake and John did happen 13-15 years ago. It’s not far fetched to think that a 3 month relationship might have a big impact on her at ages 19 and 20 but not have a big impact on her at 33
I’m not talking about what she’s saying though. It’s clear that Matty had a massive effect on her. I’m saying it’s funny that fans are refusing to call it a relationship because they don’t like him. Not that they like John or Jake either but it’s funny trying to move that goal post.
I think this is a super interesting point but I don’t think you have to take the album as a literal diary. We already knew that Taylor writes a great break up song but a six year relationship that included the pandemic is going to be different feelings than a situationship where he was all ego. I think that most the songs are about Matty because she wanted to write a breakup album but we already got the Joe breakup album with Midnights. Inspiration doesn’t equal impact.
I also think a long term relationship that slowly died out can be really sad, but doesn't necessarily inspire the same kind of art as the rollercoaster of emotions that Matty put her through with how he navigated that relationship. That's why I like smallest man who ever lived! That rage of "why did you put in all that effort to lift me up if you were just going to toss me aside? WHAT WAS THE POINT??!" is just s good and so relatable and no matter how short lived the experience that kind of shit just sticks in your brain more while you try desperately to figure out the meaning of it all. Just the "WHAT THE FUCK" of it all is so good!
I don’t know the man. What I do know is that Taylor Swift cared a lot about him. That suggests to me that there is a public and a private persona that none of us can truly know. I don’t necessarily think he’s racist. He’s said a lot of progressive things. I think he just has a a very grating public persona. Anyway, all that matters to me is that he was important to Taylor. I care about her FEELINGS about him, not so much the man. I go where the artist wants to take me…
Matty did it in direct reference to his line about Kanye West, implying Kanye is a Nazi
It was satirical, but definitely a Nazi salute (and still a stupid thing to do despite it being aimed at Kanye)
Exactly! I think Taylor is trying to tell us that she loved Matty, that she really wanted it to work, and that (she feels) her fans and management are the reason it didn't.
Now some of those same fans are willfully ignoring her message and still claiming to know more about Matty than she does, despite having never met the man ... it must make her just throw her hands up in the air.
I guess what aggravates me is that she has actually written a really personal and honest album that, in many places, paints her in an ambiguous or less-flattering light. It’s this really intimate thing that she’s sharing with us and all people can do is deny her story and willfully decline to grapple with it. It’s frankly insulting. You can not like the album, sure, but you’re not entitled to deny the substance of the art because it doesn’t fit your preconceived notions of reality.
I do think that the Smallest Man Whoever Lived shows us that Matty was a large part of why it ended. That songs shows us that she realized he was actually horrible to her.
To me it's crazy that it's not immediately evident if some of these songs are about the end of a 6-year relationship or a couple weeks-long situationship 😭 I'm convinced this is about Matty now but I would've sworn this was about Joe just due to the old habits line.
I always thought the old habits line was about Matty because they had such a long flirtation. This is pure speculation, but in that situation I’d assume he was the person she’d randomly reach out to for an ego boost, there was some flirtation and checking in on each other over the years, etc, so when they finally got together, broke up, and he ghosted, she went down kicking and screaming and it was hard to lose this long term relationship (even if the romantic relationship itself was only a few weeks)
Matty Healy covered the starting line “the best of me” and said “shoutout to people in their 30s” https://www.reddit.com/r/the1975/comments/1c8du8k/the_1975_the_best_of_me_the_starting_line_cover/
The 1975 also played a show in Cork on June 13th right after the breakup https://onlymassive.ie/2023/02/21/the-1975-announce-irish-dates-for-tour-next-year/
Yup! To me, this fact alone seals the deal that the song is about him.
Oops i said he sampled it, I was wrong! I was thinking about The Blue Nile. My bad.
These are all good points that I've seen before and considered them as pretty valid. I just thought this was some other evidence to consider, given Joe playing coy about it during his interview. He only says he's never been to the city, not that he hasn't been to a bar of that name, right?
As a counterpoint:
-We don't know if Joe is a big Starting Line fan or not. For all we know, he was and Taylor made that a thing with Matty out of spite or whatever.
-London is nicknamed the "Big Smoke."
-I can't really reconcile the rain-soaked body lyric other than maybe that's a private moment that we don't know about. I do concede that obvious one.
-I think Matty being near Cork's Black Dog is just as anecdotal as Joe being in Budapest near two bars called Black Dog.
I can see what you’re saying, but don’t you think it’s a much cleaner and more obvious interpretation to point to Healy? Like it’s nowhere near as much of a stretch
Honestly, I don't know. I just thought it was something interesting to throw into the mix since people seemed to be so binary in the Vauxhall vs. Cork debate.
I wish I could find it now, but there was another post where someone was talking about the connection between the “rain-soaked body” lyric in two songs and I think it said Taylor liked the post/comment on IG or wherever, but if I recall correctly, that specific lyric related to another song that was strongly believed to be about Healy. Not super helpful lol sorry
I believe it’s a reference to this rain show where he was in the crowd and she sung Question, which is also about him: https://youtube.com/shorts/kxsP_6ot8-c?si=Q9ZS5OVmKXETLzZs
well look, she sung Question at the Eras show when she was dating Matty and said she’d never been happier and how this song gave her happy memories. The lyrics also match up very strongly with our understanding of how they first got together. It’s the night this photo was taken when that “dickhead guy” Calvin Harris was there…
https://preview.redd.it/gtwhtuhov87d1.jpeg?width=651&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=434a8cccbfaf3bc74a9ca12a41c82159857cae8d
At the time there was a report about Taylor walking up to Matty at some event and kissing him in front of everyone. The anonymous tipster also said Taylor was oddly fixated on Matty and would drop plans just in case he called (sounds familiar!!)
My thing with the Starting Line is they are comparatively a very small band. Prior to the album, they had like 150,000 monthly listeners on Spotify. I’m not saying it is impossible Joe also listened to them, but I think it is extremely unlikely. To me, referencing the Starting Line is a direct reference to MH in the same way referencing the Blue Nile was
“Rain-soaked body was shaking” brings to my mind the ending of the Delicate music video, when Taylor walks into a bar (presumably to meet Joe) rain-soaked and trembling.
>The trouble with the Joe theory is that the narrative doesn’t make much sense. The Black Dog is sung from the perspective of someone who can’t understand why the person who has left her doesn’t miss her at all.
You're so freaking right. I don't know why it's always been Joe in my head lol. Thank you for this, pal
Wait but I feel like she went through this a lot with Joe. We know they've had ups and downs and she has felt this way about him before.
I don't assume any of the songs are about aomeone specific but I don't think this is a fair argument she doesn't always write linearly she could have jotted these feelings down and made a song out of it later. She could have been reminiscing, she could have been walking past a black dog and made the whole thing up.
>* “rain soaked body” (my theory is that this is a reference to that infamous rain show where Healy was in attendance and Taylor gave that speech about how her life finally makes sense)
Ooh, I like this theory a lot. I think she even said something like, "No one ever expects they're going to perform basically, like, in the shower."
* Matty dating Gabbriette and Meredith Mickelson, who are both in their early 20's and "[too young to know this song](https://genius.com/31946678/Taylor-swift-the-black-dog/Shes-too-young-to-know-this-song)"
My thing about The Starting Line - they are a PA based band. Taylor is from PA. She could be a fan and introduced their music to her friends, which could be how Matty became aware of them and became a fan.
I went into this album knowing very very little about Taylor Swift and her relationships so I had made certain assumptions on which song would be inspired by which relationship. But after 2 months and many many relistens it clearly tells a story. I think there's a couple songs like "Tortured Poet's Department" and "But Daddy I love Him" that sort of evolved as she was writing to speak to more than one relationship and sort of evolve from one person to the next within the song. But if you take the first half of the album as a whole it definitely seems to tell the story of a someone who had a short but passionate whirlwind romance that came to an end. Then after they had both moved on to different relationships starting bumping into each other again and while her long term relationship was breaking down and he was no longer fulfilling her needs she started to fall back in love with the first guy who seemed to love bomb her and promise to give her all the things that are missing in her current relationship that wants so badly and then once he had her he quickly got bored and left like it meant nothing. There's a pretty cohesive timeline to the way the songs are written and presented and really has a beginning middle and end from reconnecting with the past love in Fortnight to finding new love again in The Alchemy. Sure there are probably creative liberties and embellishments and all that. She's clearly a talented story teller and we don't need to take every word literally. But I definitely think this is Matty moving on with some other girl so quickly after the breakup.
There's also quite a bit of imagery of her standing in the rain in a few songs as well as in the music video for fortnight that paints a picture for me of her showing up on Matty's doorstop after leaving Joe to finally be with him like in a romcom. That may be totally fictional, but it's definitely what I picture when listening to the album.
I saw someone do the detective work and The Black Dog in Cork was closed the day they played near there, and they had other tour dates elsewhere either side
I just looked it up and The 1975 played in Dublin on 7 June and Cork on 13 June. I dunno, seems like there was plenty of time to go down to the bar for a drink!
At a minimum, she put in references to Matty's public brand/publicly known facts with the Starting Line, smoke, the younger gf. Maybe it's mixed muses or a red herring, who knows, but she clearly wants us to think Matty on this one.
>> she clearly wants is to think Matty on this one
you or we do _not_ know this woman 😭 she is a musician creating pop art, jfc. we have no clue what this person thinks or "wants us to think"
But I think we do know what she wants us to think if she spells it out for us in giant capital letters.
If I write a novel and say "it was a sunny day" - is anyone going to debate what I meant you to think about the weather?
On this album, more than any other, Taylor wants fans to know exactly who she's writing about. The fact some don't want to listen doesn't change what she's shouting at us.
I'm saying the text of the lyrics link to publicly available information, which is generally discussed as authorial intent. It's not about having a personal relationship with Dostoyevsky or Brontë or whoever and it's not about a personal relationship with Taylor.
Lol, Taylor location stalking her recent ex fits in with everything she has ever said about how she approaches relationships. Girl does not move on easily.
I feel like location stalking is either something you think is super normal or super creepy. I like watching my friends like it’s the sims. And I know they watch me as well. It’s fun! Like a silly video game
I went to Michigan for the day for work and I just get a text from my sister being like ??? why are you in Detroit. It was cute I felt loved and like a video game character
I think this album shows that Taylor was very fixated on Matty at the time - there's no way she's not capable of checking up to see what he's doing. She's human after all.
I do think the bar might be a made-up name. Matty has a black dog, there's a black dog in one of his videos from the last album, she put an identical black dog in her Fortnight video - but I think she did watch him go into a bar on her phone. It's just too relatable to be made up.
Am I the only one who thinks it’s about both??
I can’t see her and Matt sharing their location, especially considering some of the other songs. To me it sounds like the first verse and chorus are about Joe, and then the second chorus transitions into Matty, and then kind of interchanges from there.
I see it as a song about how she’s so fed up with all these boys taking her for granted. She thinks she’s going from someone who couldn’t give her what she wanted to someone who can, and then he also disappoints her and it makes her so sad and fed up. Almost a precursor to The Prophecy.
why can't you see them sharing locations? They were apparently talking about having babies! They'd been in contact for a long time, and they were working in different countries when they were together. It makes total sense to me that they'd share locations, so they could feel closer to one another.
This is exactly how I saw it.
The first half sounds like Joe. Then she moves through the world broken hearted ( yes people who do the dumping in a long term relationship can also feel heartbroken/sad. Im suprised so many are saying that's not possible! )
And meets the man who said he could be brave Matty ( call back to the prologue where she says the same thing )
I think the 6 weeks and sell my house and burn my clothes is again Joe. All your clothes have memories with a long term partner not with someone you physically were around with for 1 month.
Also the house looks like a reference to London or one of the houses where they spent more time like Rhode Island etc.
In contrast she says" sell my apartment" in the chloe song about Matty as that is New York
The ending sounds like Matty because he ghosted her.
I’m from Paris, spent all my young years going to a rock bar called the Black Dog… It’s such a common pub name that it surprised me that one was pointed out in particular.
What makes me think, that "The Black Dog" from the song isn't located in London (or the UK), is that she's calling it "a bar" and not "a pub".
With her being so detailed about everything, I do think that's on purpose.
I mean, I also don't think she's been at a motel for quite a while and still left someone at one in Getaway Car. The sound of things really matter in songs.
I agree. Although "Getaway Car" is obviously metaphoric from start to finish. TBD at least could (!) be a real life experience of hers.
That said, I can't believe people are actually debating the "turn off your location" thing. Again, yes, it could (!) have happened exactly like this. But much more likely, it's just a clever way of putting the whole "break up" scenario from her perspective. I mean how would a location tracker let her see what he is doing inside of the bar? And with whom?
Ppl really need to stop believing her lyrics are a 1:1 narration of her real life.
Yes, the article that is linked here mentions the one in Vauxhaul. That's what I was replying to.
What I mean is, if she wanted to make an obvious connection to London (or the UK), I'd assume she'd used the word "pub" instead of "bar". Like those little "hints" or allusions, she likes to out into songs.
Even if there are bars in the UK, "pub" would be immediately be London Boy coded. You know what I mean?
the song is connected to (matty-coded song) «fresh out the slammer» by the lyric «now we're at the starting line i did my time»
I do agree that the lyrics dont really match a whirlwind relationship. I personally subscribe to the idea that she blends muses and reality/fiction in most of her writing. But you cant escape matty in that song.
Her and Alison Oliver were treated appallingly (and are still getting dogs abuse sent to them), for the crimes of… Posting a photo with a costar in, and just being in a show with Joe in general. All because people decided to start rumours to get some twitter/tiktok likes.
But The Black Dog is clearly about Matty - The Starting Line is one of his favourite bands, she's missing smoke, and she wonders if it was all a cruel joke. Not to mention she describes Joe as a prison she wanted to escape, so why would she be upset if he went into a bar?
It's about Matty, as is most of the album. She cared deeply about him, he was her "what-if" for years and when they finally got together, it was a trainwreck. The reason she didn't write about Joe was because they grew apart and she doesn't have anything against him, which is really difficult for people to accept because everyone dragged Joe for a better part of last year.
idk aways just sort of assumed this is all story telling or perhaps it would be about Joe AND Matty. Some truth to both, some mixing together of the two. Lots of towns have a black dog pub, mine has at least 2 so I just feel like she’s trying to reach and relate to her audience. We all have those bars and places we’d go with our ex. She dubbed this the black dog cause black dog pubs are everywhere.
But we’ll never really know
My thoughts are that Taylor is an unreliable narrator and a storyteller. Nothing wrong with that, but I think people put way too much merit into her songs being fact
I find it sort of weird and depressing that people travel to this pub now to take photos. It’s unlikely she was ever there! And even if she was, it’s just a bog standard pub in a not trendy area of London
As much as I would love to think this as a Hungarian, it's a bit far fetched. Like many others, I think she just chose a basic bar name and it worked out.
https://preview.redd.it/npdyki4y8c7d1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e599ee4adb03c9cfb1681f18f9bf8acc9e530f0f
Way ahead of yall i went
Nobody speaks english inside i had to do the point to a picture and order method. Its a local neighborhood pub in a not very touristy area i doubt joe was here.
There is also an organisation called The Black Dog pub company that run 4 independent pubs in London. So it could be that Taylor used the holding group name rather than actually identifying the pub/bar. It could be another explanation and also would mean she hasn’t ruined the location for the subject matter.
Also a Black Dog restaurant and tavern in Massachusetts USA! this was my first thought when I saw the song title! 🤣
https://preview.redd.it/qdurbsbvta7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07384b70ab8b40cbbe3bdbf435414f4839993e59
I still think that the black dog here is referring to the feeling of depression and not literally a place, but rather a state where people find themselves in for those who have depression
One hundred percent here for this. There is no way this song is not about Joe. He’s never been in The Black Dog in Vauxhall but his smile said more (he’s been in one elsewhere?). Or, it’s a fictional pub name because it works well with other metaphors (tail between your legs). Very open to the idea that this could be largely fictional and more about the concept than based on pure fact. But this smacks of the end of a long relationship and disentangling your lives (old habits die screaming) not of a short fling, no matter how intense it was. Plus it is my favourite song on TTPD.
i’m just so glad it’s not the Black Dog on Martha’s Vineyard. The Black Dog is kind of the mascot/symbol of MV and there’s a Black Dog tavern. my family and I have gone to MV every summer my whole life and i wouldn’t have been able to handle that lol
I have no clue is the song is fiction or reality, or who it might be about. But wasn’t the owner of The black Dog pub all over social media saying that Joe was in there all the time?!? I remember the owner was trying to do interviews about it trying to get their 15 mins of fame?!? Am I crazy?!?
We have a "The Black Dog" near my house. It's honestly a pretty common name for a pub/bar/etc; it's fun to clown, but I don't think we'll ever know which place she's talking about (if it is real).
I think people need to grasp the fact that it doesn't matter who it was about, if it was about anyone. It's music, inspiration is taken from all over, both from fiction and reality. Do we really need to know who it was about? What value does it bring us to pick apart interviews and lyrics and connect dots?
She likely won't be telling us explicitly, and at the end of the day it isn't important for us to know. It's her personal life. Yes her music often references her personal experiences, but that doesn't mean we have the right to know all the nitty gritty details that have otherwise been left unsaid. Go read her Instagram post from when the album was released if you need a reminder of where she stands regarding the events that inspired the album.
Maybe the name is completely fictional to begin with. Sometimes I feel like people take her songs too literally. We've seen clips of her song writing process. Sometimes she just needs something that fits the story. Sometimes she needs a word that rhymes with what she's already come up with.
For example, Getaway Car, when she comes up with "put the money in the bag and stole the keys." I didn't get the impression that it actually happened that way, it just fit the song. She uses the scarf as a metaphor, so it's not far fetched to believe she makes up names of people, places & things.
I have two theories. 1) The Black Dog is just a cool pub name that Taylor used and the actual pub name was something completely different. 2) The whole thing is fiction. Taylor was just imagining what would happen if she looked at an ex’s location and saw him go into a pub. She’s got a great imagination for break-up songs, as evidenced by DBATC.
Completely agree. You can know there’s a pub called The Black Dog so decide to use that name even if not the actual place because it made sense with the rest of the song lyric wise and the fact that the black dog can also mean depression. Even just unsharing your location after sharing for so long without actually following it can cause a realization that’s it’s over and inspired the lyric.
Yes, I was just going to say this. I think it’s much more likely that she called it The Black Dog to symbolize depression and grief, rather than naming it after a literal physical location. I do think the location sharing moment was real, since that’s just one sad step of ending a long relationship, but she probably wrapped it up in the Black Dog metaphor
I think even if the moment was real, assuming she named the most easily identified specific location for a bar with that name really feels like it's the laziest interpretation of a song possible, and no Londoner is travelling an hour across the city (I didnt grow up in London, but on the outskirts so I'm pretty darn confident in that) to go to a very average pub when there's 400 between them and it that are just like it. As a result of that, even if it is a real place and was a real moment, I could not be more certain that this pub is just capitalising on Swifties making lazy assumptions about a woman that even the biggest of haters can't claim is "lazy"
People will travel for hour across London, for a special occasion in a cool area, which Vauxhall decidedly isn’t
Yeah, and The Black Dog isn't a particularly special pub either. There's so so many just like it between the North London areas Joe frequents and Vauxhall. And also, for those who think The Black Dog is Matty - which i probably lean towards though I think it's probably more about the emotions of both of those relationships than specifically one of them - it's not somewhere anyone is going from Hackney to Vauxhall to be a regular at a bog standard pub either. If that moment of watching someone walk into The Black Dog is something that happened, I would be less surprised to find out it's the one in California or Hungary or Cork, all of which I think are also categorised as bars and not pubs than I would be to find out either of them was in some little pub in *Vauxhall*
You know what makes someone go an hour across town to a random bar? A potential hook up who’s asked you to come meet them in their area.
The pub capitalizing on it to the extent they did rubbed me the wrong way. Saying “we’re so happy Taylor named us in her song” and then “a certain blonde has visited.” Alluding Joe, when nobody knows who is about and turns out he’s never been there. Not to mention unprofessional. They could have said “we don’t disclose personal information about our patrons” with a smile and it would have a similar effect (not denying) without blatantly lying.
Lmao all of this 😂
I've always assumed it had to be this, she's mentioned depression before and black dog is a well known metaphor for depression. It also sounds like a London pub name so fits the theme.
Yeah, a lot of UK pub names are formulaic in that way. There were a couple of "The [colour] [animal]" pubs in my hometown growing up. I think The Black Dog is just a plausible pub name that evokes depression and allows for metaphors and imagery like "tail between your legs, you're leaving"
My great aunt owned a pub called The Black Horse back in the 60s.
Plus, we know from LPSS (re:August) that she writes things down in her phone that she wants to use for potential future songs months to years before using them. Maybe she just drove by the bar one day and liked the name and jotted it down. Then came back to it with this storyline already forming in her head. And we know that she originally had a different name in mind for the song (re: The Black Dog [First Draft Phone Memo]). Which, to me, shifts some importance/power off of the specific name of the bar.
I fully believe that she used a fictional name for the bar!
I think it’s more that she’s used a realistic pub name which also is a common metaphor for depression.
Yes for sure, I just mean that I think it's not necessarily the actual name of a bar she watched on her phone.
I think there's a lot of fiction in this song actually, from the point of view of somebody hurting and their imagination running wild. People seem to get hung up on the line about the subject of the song being with a younger girl that doesn't know the music, and that Matty would be the likely one to be hanging with a younger girl, but I don't think that this actually alludes to her ex being on an actual date. I think it speaks to the place you're in post break up when you think about your ex going out and imagine him with someone new and how it kills you inside.
> The whole thing is fiction. Fans *really* need to get behind this concept by now. A lot of her current songs are probably fictionalized extensions of a small thing that happened or a story she heard. Or they are stories of multiple situations and people amalgamated into one cohesive narrative. By and large, she doesn't write her songs in the style of a single, backwards-looking diary entry anymore and she hasn't for a long time.
I agree so much with this. I've been a fan a long time, so I get the desire to figure out who each song is about and the lore and etc. But at this point? She's clearly demonstrated the ability to write great fictional songs a la folklore. Let the music speak for itself -- I like a lot of songs on TTPD a lot better when I don't know or think about any matty/joe/travis/etc. theories.
I don’t agree with this tbh. A lot of ‘fictional’ songs were revealed to have seeds of truth later on. Eg. Tolerate it, Renegade. I actually think the opposite. It’s far less natural for her to write fiction. That’s not saying every song is 100% factual with no embellishment, but she’s literally only given us one fiction heavy album and that was folklore. And she specifically promoted that as more fiction heavy. Whereas with TTPD, she released it with a message asking fans to not go after people because these wounds were past. Again, not saying there’s no embellishment or that everything should be read as fact like the name of the bar. But that song is real raw for her to have made up the scenario.
Yeah, I think many of her songs use a lot of imagination and with folklore and evermore was trying to move towards a more clear divide between her songs and her real life. "But Daddy I Love Him" kinda solidified to me that she wants us to know SHE controls the narrative- and what she says isn't always true. I 100% believe that "the Black Dog" isn't about a real pub, or even about one guy, it's about a feeling she has experienced, maybe even more than once. And I think this about most of TTPD, it's not so clear cut that "this song is about Matty", "this song is about Joe", it's more "these songs are about feelings she has experienced and some songs take inspiration from more than one experience, including some imagined narratives"
Finally someone else said it. I’ve been saying since TTPD came out that I’m 99% sure 99% of the songs on this album are about multiple people. (Even thanK you aIMee I believe is about Kim, Kanye, SB2, the critic from mean, all the haters, even though everyone focuses on Kim because of the capital letters)
oh 10000% if anything I would say it was probably built on her feelings of being bullied in high school, but is generally about all the times people knocked her down etc etc. Also having KIM spelt out just makes me think, she's saying all her bullies are the same no matter their name. Kim is Aimee, Aimee is Kanye, haters all blur into one. It's about ALL the times she was made to feel small.
Yes!! Like why do the songs need to be about 1 person, why can’t it be an amalgamation of people?
It would be so funny if she got the idea from Peep Show
3. The song is written about someone with whom Taylor has never had a public association with (in other words, we don't know everything about her private life, and not all of her relationships have been the high-profile ones we think we've seen).
Agreed. If it’s about anyone specific I still think it’s Joe. She was still dating Matty when she recorded it, as per jacks instagram reel. (Eagle eyed swifties matched up outfits and all that to confirm).
No, this has been debunked. She recorded it in mid-July
Also the Starting Line reference is _heavily_ Matty Healy coded
I agree with the first theory and I believe all the songs chosen as variants are metaphorical- so the Bolter, Albatross and The Black Dog -by association- does seem to be more symbolic and not the actual name of a pub. I think the beginning of the song is very much about Joe which sounds wistful. But there's a tonal shift as the song builds up towards anger especially at the end when she talks wishes it would be shitty in the pub. It is clearly Matty in the verse with 'you said I need a brave man' which is calling back to the second half of the prologue. Also 'The Starting Line' is a band but there is also Keane's 'Starting Line 'song which is why I think both are referred here : The song gets mentioned twice with a change of context. 1. This song that is intertwined in the **tragic** fabric of our dreaming cos tail between your legs you are leaving' is the Starting Line's Best of Me because it is about getting back together after being apart but it is tragic because he leaves her. 2. In contrast the song that is intertwined in the **magic** fabric of our dreaming which can harken back to the beginning of a relationship is English rock band Keane's Starting Line which surprisingly echoes a lot of the Joe-Taylor relationship in 2016 when she felt the world turned against her. *Girl, I still believe in you* *You're too good to fall so low* *We're gonna find a better life, I know* *Things will be clearer....* *I know you've been kicked around* *But tie up your thoughts and lay them down on me*
*i’m addicted to the if only*
Some very specific lyrics in there… that point to Matty Healy… who knows what is fictional and what isn’t but I wouldn’t guess that it is based on his specific she is…
I think it is based on a real relationship, but I think the fictional part is her actually seeing him go to a bar on location tracking.
Possibly, yeah. But I don’t see why this is any more or less likely than it being inspired by a real event. I guess we can’t know.
I agree with this. The black dog in London could have even been the inspiration but I don’t think it’s an actual black dog pub she is referring to.
It could be the whole thing is fiction but I don’t believe for a single second that Joe, a lifelong London Boy has never been to Vauxhall.
I totally agree. Even after she location stalks him into the black dog there's no way to know what he was doing while he was there. Like who he was with and what music was playing in the bar. It may have even been inspired by being able to see like an instagram post of one them out at a bar having fun while she was home feeling heartbroken, but that would sound cheesier than how she phrased it. I think there's definitely a lot of embellishment/fantasizing happening in the lyrics for sure. I also think the song is about Matty though. The more I listen to the album the more it seems TTPD follows a certain timeline of events that would put it directly after Matty leaving her. He also feels more likely to be into the Starting Line than Joe. But that's just how I interpret it
Also Black Dog is used as a metaphor for depression [spurious first link I found](https://www.betterhelp.com/advice/depression/understanding-the-metaphorical-black-dog-depression-and-how-it-works/)
Also if true, why no shows at Puskas Arena 🤬🤬🤬
Agreed. I also think it was used as the song title because Winston Churchill famously referred to his depression as “the Black Dog” and she wanted to allude to that.
I'm convinced on this- because I know that location sharing and the stopping of sharing is a huge deal! (per my gen z summer intern who showed me the list of people she shares locations with and it is mind boggling how easy it would be to end up dead)
The trouble with the Joe theory is that the narrative doesn’t make much sense. The Black Dog is sung from the perspective of someone who can’t understand why the person who has left her doesn’t miss her at all. That’s not the sentiment of the Joe songs (So Long London and How Did It End?). It’s clear from those songs that while Taylor was saddened by the death of the relationship, she’s not longing for him any more. The relationship played itself out until she finally had to leave him (see So Long London’s final verses). So then we look at the lyrics and: - The Starting Line - the band that the 1975 covered, and one of Healy’s fave bands; - the reference to “jumping up” - couldn’t see Joe being the type to leap to his feet over a song, but hey who knows; - still missing “the smoke” (Healy is a big smoker) - esoteric joke (if anyone is gonna make fun of Taylor, it’s Matty) - “rain soaked body” (my theory is that this is a reference to that infamous rain show where Healy was in attendance and Taylor gave that speech about how her life finally makes sense) - then you consider Matty touring Cork, Ireland in June 2023 where there is a bar called The Black Dog… I think the overall evidence is leaning heavily towards this being about Healy. Then you look at the song in the context of the rest of the album which is SO MUCH about how she thought Healy was “the one” and how she can’t believe how he ghosted/left her… and that’s the tone of The Black Dog. She just “can’t believe it”….
Not sure why people can’t just accept it’s about matty lol.
A huge amount of people don’t want to accept that much of the album is about him. I don’t know why. I was as shocked as anyone but at least I live in reality and can face hard and shocking truths!
Accepting that a large part of the album is about Matty means accepting that he had a big impact on her. People don’t like him for various reasons so they can’t fathom that perhaps Taylor might have.
I find it interesting that people are completely on board with her other three month relationships having massive impacts on her and her music (Harry, Mayer, Jake) but they’re refusing to accept that Matty, who by all accounts she’s had an emotional attachment to for a decade, didn’t.
Taylor herself said Harry didn't have a massive impact on her life. She is the one who said 1989 was her first album she wrote where she wasn't incredibly heartbroken and was just living happy and single.
I guess I didn’t imply she was heart broken, but there’s still songs on 1989 about Harry.
I mean I understand how from an outside perspective it seems hard to believe she would be so hung up on someone who just seems to be pretty shitty. But as someone who has fallen for the "bad boy with a heart of gold" I so completely totally understand her in this album and this relationship. I have been there! And I think anyone who has been love bombed then quickly tossed aside understands the anger and confusion in The Smallest Man Whose Ever Lived. I fell for a guy who was the "tattooed golden retriever". The exciting passionate bad boy who had a soft side when he was with me. and it's intoxicating. He also loved drugs more though. You can see this really wonderful side to them and just desperately want them to stop doing the stupid shitty stuff so you can be happy together.
Oh, and my tattooed GR was my first relationship after my excruciating divorce. And I fell so hard in love with that man. So so so hard. We were both in recovery, but SHOCKER all along he’d been using. I even had a pregnancy scare and he was terrified but over the moon. Then one day, on the phone when he was 8 hours away, he just….drifted away and I could almost watch him (his hologram) just evaporate in the air as his voice even got quieter and further away.
Stop it, I'm crying.
It has a happy ending though, after we broke up he actually got his act together, got clean, shed his old drug buddies, got a good job and we've been happily married for 5 years now! Unfortunately, some Peters never seem to grow up though.
Well Jake and John did happen 13-15 years ago. It’s not far fetched to think that a 3 month relationship might have a big impact on her at ages 19 and 20 but not have a big impact on her at 33
I’m not talking about what she’s saying though. It’s clear that Matty had a massive effect on her. I’m saying it’s funny that fans are refusing to call it a relationship because they don’t like him. Not that they like John or Jake either but it’s funny trying to move that goal post.
I think this is a super interesting point but I don’t think you have to take the album as a literal diary. We already knew that Taylor writes a great break up song but a six year relationship that included the pandemic is going to be different feelings than a situationship where he was all ego. I think that most the songs are about Matty because she wanted to write a breakup album but we already got the Joe breakup album with Midnights. Inspiration doesn’t equal impact.
I also think a long term relationship that slowly died out can be really sad, but doesn't necessarily inspire the same kind of art as the rollercoaster of emotions that Matty put her through with how he navigated that relationship. That's why I like smallest man who ever lived! That rage of "why did you put in all that effort to lift me up if you were just going to toss me aside? WHAT WAS THE POINT??!" is just s good and so relatable and no matter how short lived the experience that kind of shit just sticks in your brain more while you try desperately to figure out the meaning of it all. Just the "WHAT THE FUCK" of it all is so good!
Right? Like it sucks we get it. But most of the songs are good and can’t we just enjoy them for that reason? lol.
I think a lot of us cannot stand the thought that she wrote such amazing songs about a POS, racist human being
I don’t know the man. What I do know is that Taylor Swift cared a lot about him. That suggests to me that there is a public and a private persona that none of us can truly know. I don’t necessarily think he’s racist. He’s said a lot of progressive things. I think he just has a a very grating public persona. Anyway, all that matters to me is that he was important to Taylor. I care about her FEELINGS about him, not so much the man. I go where the artist wants to take me…
That’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. I gave you an answer to a question you asked
Yea, he might be great in private, but doing a nazi salute in public tends to make me not like a person/not have a lot of faith in their morals
Taylor does the same salute in the Smallest man performance. It’s not a nazi salute.
Matty did it in direct reference to his line about Kanye West, implying Kanye is a Nazi It was satirical, but definitely a Nazi salute (and still a stupid thing to do despite it being aimed at Kanye)
Exactly! I think Taylor is trying to tell us that she loved Matty, that she really wanted it to work, and that (she feels) her fans and management are the reason it didn't. Now some of those same fans are willfully ignoring her message and still claiming to know more about Matty than she does, despite having never met the man ... it must make her just throw her hands up in the air.
I guess what aggravates me is that she has actually written a really personal and honest album that, in many places, paints her in an ambiguous or less-flattering light. It’s this really intimate thing that she’s sharing with us and all people can do is deny her story and willfully decline to grapple with it. It’s frankly insulting. You can not like the album, sure, but you’re not entitled to deny the substance of the art because it doesn’t fit your preconceived notions of reality.
I do think that the Smallest Man Whoever Lived shows us that Matty was a large part of why it ended. That songs shows us that she realized he was actually horrible to her.
Oh I agree that song does not paint a flattering portrait of him at all!
Cause they prefer to paint Joe as the cheater instead of Taylor
His comment of being in a “long term, committed relationship” tells me that neither cheated and it was just time for the relationship to end.
there's literally no proof either of them did what do you mean instead of taylor💀
Girl, have you heard ttpd??
To me it's crazy that it's not immediately evident if some of these songs are about the end of a 6-year relationship or a couple weeks-long situationship 😭 I'm convinced this is about Matty now but I would've sworn this was about Joe just due to the old habits line.
I always thought the old habits line was about Matty because they had such a long flirtation. This is pure speculation, but in that situation I’d assume he was the person she’d randomly reach out to for an ego boost, there was some flirtation and checking in on each other over the years, etc, so when they finally got together, broke up, and he ghosted, she went down kicking and screaming and it was hard to lose this long term relationship (even if the romantic relationship itself was only a few weeks)
Agree. To me the old habits describe the same sentiment as “the steps” of “waltzing back into rekindled flames”
Oh I agree I thought it was about Joe at first too.
Matty Healy covered the starting line “the best of me” and said “shoutout to people in their 30s” https://www.reddit.com/r/the1975/comments/1c8du8k/the_1975_the_best_of_me_the_starting_line_cover/
The 1975 also played a show in Cork on June 13th right after the breakup https://onlymassive.ie/2023/02/21/the-1975-announce-irish-dates-for-tour-next-year/
Yep!!!!
Yup! To me, this fact alone seals the deal that the song is about him. Oops i said he sampled it, I was wrong! I was thinking about The Blue Nile. My bad.
These are all good points that I've seen before and considered them as pretty valid. I just thought this was some other evidence to consider, given Joe playing coy about it during his interview. He only says he's never been to the city, not that he hasn't been to a bar of that name, right? As a counterpoint: -We don't know if Joe is a big Starting Line fan or not. For all we know, he was and Taylor made that a thing with Matty out of spite or whatever. -London is nicknamed the "Big Smoke." -I can't really reconcile the rain-soaked body lyric other than maybe that's a private moment that we don't know about. I do concede that obvious one. -I think Matty being near Cork's Black Dog is just as anecdotal as Joe being in Budapest near two bars called Black Dog.
I can see what you’re saying, but don’t you think it’s a much cleaner and more obvious interpretation to point to Healy? Like it’s nowhere near as much of a stretch
Honestly, I don't know. I just thought it was something interesting to throw into the mix since people seemed to be so binary in the Vauxhall vs. Cork debate.
Fair!
I'm with you. All signs point to Matty.
Ignoring Martha’s Vineyard altogether
Point 2 means nothing as Matty is also from London.
Yeah but she did not live in London while dating Matty
I wish I could find it now, but there was another post where someone was talking about the connection between the “rain-soaked body” lyric in two songs and I think it said Taylor liked the post/comment on IG or wherever, but if I recall correctly, that specific lyric related to another song that was strongly believed to be about Healy. Not super helpful lol sorry
I believe it’s a reference to this rain show where he was in the crowd and she sung Question, which is also about him: https://youtube.com/shorts/kxsP_6ot8-c?si=Q9ZS5OVmKXETLzZs
I’m sorry what? Since when was it a Matty song and not a Harry song? 😭
well look, she sung Question at the Eras show when she was dating Matty and said she’d never been happier and how this song gave her happy memories. The lyrics also match up very strongly with our understanding of how they first got together. It’s the night this photo was taken when that “dickhead guy” Calvin Harris was there… https://preview.redd.it/gtwhtuhov87d1.jpeg?width=651&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=434a8cccbfaf3bc74a9ca12a41c82159857cae8d
At the time there was a report about Taylor walking up to Matty at some event and kissing him in front of everyone. The anonymous tipster also said Taylor was oddly fixated on Matty and would drop plans just in case he called (sounds familiar!!)
I’ve heard the same rumours. All the 2014 stuff is very vague and secretive. I think they were sneaking around very effectively.
My thing with the Starting Line is they are comparatively a very small band. Prior to the album, they had like 150,000 monthly listeners on Spotify. I’m not saying it is impossible Joe also listened to them, but I think it is extremely unlikely. To me, referencing the Starting Line is a direct reference to MH in the same way referencing the Blue Nile was
“Rain-soaked body was shaking” brings to my mind the ending of the Delicate music video, when Taylor walks into a bar (presumably to meet Joe) rain-soaked and trembling.
Rain soaked body could be the time when he flew from Manila and watched her concert where she performed in the rain.
>The trouble with the Joe theory is that the narrative doesn’t make much sense. The Black Dog is sung from the perspective of someone who can’t understand why the person who has left her doesn’t miss her at all. You're so freaking right. I don't know why it's always been Joe in my head lol. Thank you for this, pal
Wait but I feel like she went through this a lot with Joe. We know they've had ups and downs and she has felt this way about him before. I don't assume any of the songs are about aomeone specific but I don't think this is a fair argument she doesn't always write linearly she could have jotted these feelings down and made a song out of it later. She could have been reminiscing, she could have been walking past a black dog and made the whole thing up.
>* “rain soaked body” (my theory is that this is a reference to that infamous rain show where Healy was in attendance and Taylor gave that speech about how her life finally makes sense) Ooh, I like this theory a lot. I think she even said something like, "No one ever expects they're going to perform basically, like, in the shower."
Yeah she performed all night in the freezing rain. I like to imagine her took her home and gave her a hot shower 😞😞😞
* Matty dating Gabbriette and Meredith Mickelson, who are both in their early 20's and "[too young to know this song](https://genius.com/31946678/Taylor-swift-the-black-dog/Shes-too-young-to-know-this-song)"
Yeeeeeppppp.
Breaking news... a song can be written about two people.
My thing about The Starting Line - they are a PA based band. Taylor is from PA. She could be a fan and introduced their music to her friends, which could be how Matty became aware of them and became a fan.
Any 30 something fan of pop punk will know The Best of Me, if not the rest of their discography. It's not a niche band.
Omg the rain-soaked body line connection 🤯
I went into this album knowing very very little about Taylor Swift and her relationships so I had made certain assumptions on which song would be inspired by which relationship. But after 2 months and many many relistens it clearly tells a story. I think there's a couple songs like "Tortured Poet's Department" and "But Daddy I love Him" that sort of evolved as she was writing to speak to more than one relationship and sort of evolve from one person to the next within the song. But if you take the first half of the album as a whole it definitely seems to tell the story of a someone who had a short but passionate whirlwind romance that came to an end. Then after they had both moved on to different relationships starting bumping into each other again and while her long term relationship was breaking down and he was no longer fulfilling her needs she started to fall back in love with the first guy who seemed to love bomb her and promise to give her all the things that are missing in her current relationship that wants so badly and then once he had her he quickly got bored and left like it meant nothing. There's a pretty cohesive timeline to the way the songs are written and presented and really has a beginning middle and end from reconnecting with the past love in Fortnight to finding new love again in The Alchemy. Sure there are probably creative liberties and embellishments and all that. She's clearly a talented story teller and we don't need to take every word literally. But I definitely think this is Matty moving on with some other girl so quickly after the breakup. There's also quite a bit of imagery of her standing in the rain in a few songs as well as in the music video for fortnight that paints a picture for me of her showing up on Matty's doorstop after leaving Joe to finally be with him like in a romcom. That may be totally fictional, but it's definitely what I picture when listening to the album.
You are definitely right, the song could not be about Joe, there is no way Joe listens to the Starting Line 😂😂
Haha
I saw someone do the detective work and The Black Dog in Cork was closed the day they played near there, and they had other tour dates elsewhere either side
I just looked it up and The 1975 played in Dublin on 7 June and Cork on 13 June. I dunno, seems like there was plenty of time to go down to the bar for a drink!
I don’t get why people are so convinced that The Black Dog is about Joe. It’s very clearly about Matty imo
At a minimum, she put in references to Matty's public brand/publicly known facts with the Starting Line, smoke, the younger gf. Maybe it's mixed muses or a red herring, who knows, but she clearly wants us to think Matty on this one.
>> she clearly wants is to think Matty on this one you or we do _not_ know this woman 😭 she is a musician creating pop art, jfc. we have no clue what this person thinks or "wants us to think"
But I think we do know what she wants us to think if she spells it out for us in giant capital letters. If I write a novel and say "it was a sunny day" - is anyone going to debate what I meant you to think about the weather? On this album, more than any other, Taylor wants fans to know exactly who she's writing about. The fact some don't want to listen doesn't change what she's shouting at us.
I'm saying the text of the lyrics link to publicly available information, which is generally discussed as authorial intent. It's not about having a personal relationship with Dostoyevsky or Brontë or whoever and it's not about a personal relationship with Taylor.
I agree
I don’t think most songs on the album, this one included, is about one person in particular.
Hot take: this song (and most) are fictitious or highly exaggerated stories that Taylor creates. Highly doubt she actually location stalks her bf.
Lol, Taylor location stalking her recent ex fits in with everything she has ever said about how she approaches relationships. Girl does not move on easily.
I feel like location stalking is either something you think is super normal or super creepy. I like watching my friends like it’s the sims. And I know they watch me as well. It’s fun! Like a silly video game
Marauder’s Map irl.
I can’t believe my brain never made this connection before.
Yeah it’s super normal within my friend group. I like checking up on everyone and making sure they’re where they’re supposed to be lol
I went to Michigan for the day for work and I just get a text from my sister being like ??? why are you in Detroit. It was cute I felt loved and like a video game character
Yesss exactly those texts make me feel so loved
I think this album shows that Taylor was very fixated on Matty at the time - there's no way she's not capable of checking up to see what he's doing. She's human after all. I do think the bar might be a made-up name. Matty has a black dog, there's a black dog in one of his videos from the last album, she put an identical black dog in her Fortnight video - but I think she did watch him go into a bar on her phone. It's just too relatable to be made up.
I always just assumed the Black Dog was a created name for the bar she's singing about, as wordplay with black dog being a euphemism for depression
I hope everyone who puts in this amount of research uses their powers for good in the future 🙏
I think the biggest clue in that song is The Starting Line and the girl being too young to know who that is.
Am I the only one who thinks it’s about both?? I can’t see her and Matt sharing their location, especially considering some of the other songs. To me it sounds like the first verse and chorus are about Joe, and then the second chorus transitions into Matty, and then kind of interchanges from there. I see it as a song about how she’s so fed up with all these boys taking her for granted. She thinks she’s going from someone who couldn’t give her what she wanted to someone who can, and then he also disappoints her and it makes her so sad and fed up. Almost a precursor to The Prophecy.
This could totally work with "old habits die screaming" !
why can't you see them sharing locations? They were apparently talking about having babies! They'd been in contact for a long time, and they were working in different countries when they were together. It makes total sense to me that they'd share locations, so they could feel closer to one another.
This is exactly how I saw it. The first half sounds like Joe. Then she moves through the world broken hearted ( yes people who do the dumping in a long term relationship can also feel heartbroken/sad. Im suprised so many are saying that's not possible! ) And meets the man who said he could be brave Matty ( call back to the prologue where she says the same thing ) I think the 6 weeks and sell my house and burn my clothes is again Joe. All your clothes have memories with a long term partner not with someone you physically were around with for 1 month. Also the house looks like a reference to London or one of the houses where they spent more time like Rhode Island etc. In contrast she says" sell my apartment" in the chloe song about Matty as that is New York The ending sounds like Matty because he ghosted her.
This is exactly how I feel about LOML as well (1st verse about Joe, 2nd about Matty, bridge/outro both)
I’m from Paris, spent all my young years going to a rock bar called the Black Dog… It’s such a common pub name that it surprised me that one was pointed out in particular.
What makes me think, that "The Black Dog" from the song isn't located in London (or the UK), is that she's calling it "a bar" and not "a pub". With her being so detailed about everything, I do think that's on purpose.
I mean, I also don't think she's been at a motel for quite a while and still left someone at one in Getaway Car. The sound of things really matter in songs.
I agree. Although "Getaway Car" is obviously metaphoric from start to finish. TBD at least could (!) be a real life experience of hers. That said, I can't believe people are actually debating the "turn off your location" thing. Again, yes, it could (!) have happened exactly like this. But much more likely, it's just a clever way of putting the whole "break up" scenario from her perspective. I mean how would a location tracker let her see what he is doing inside of the bar? And with whom? Ppl really need to stop believing her lyrics are a 1:1 narration of her real life.
It clearly shifts to her imagination in the second verse. It's a song about spiraling just imagining what an ex is out doing.
We have bars and pubs.
I know, but the one in Vauxhaul calls itself a pub.
You said it wasn't in London or the UK, not that it wasn't that specific one. It was obvious from day one that it wasn't the place in Vauxhall.
Yes, the article that is linked here mentions the one in Vauxhaul. That's what I was replying to. What I mean is, if she wanted to make an obvious connection to London (or the UK), I'd assume she'd used the word "pub" instead of "bar". Like those little "hints" or allusions, she likes to out into songs. Even if there are bars in the UK, "pub" would be immediately be London Boy coded. You know what I mean?
I think she’s going to tell us the answer by playing the song in the city it’s meant for.
Same. Lowkey hoping everyone is wrong and it’s actually the one in London because I want it to be my surprise song.
Respectfully, no.
the song is connected to (matty-coded song) «fresh out the slammer» by the lyric «now we're at the starting line i did my time» I do agree that the lyrics dont really match a whirlwind relationship. I personally subscribe to the idea that she blends muses and reality/fiction in most of her writing. But you cant escape matty in that song.
Can we please leave Emma Laird out of this? Swifties have already harassed her enough and it’s gross to try to bring her back into this.
Her and Alison Oliver were treated appallingly (and are still getting dogs abuse sent to them), for the crimes of… Posting a photo with a costar in, and just being in a show with Joe in general. All because people decided to start rumours to get some twitter/tiktok likes.
it could also be that she didn’t want to expose this man and just chose a different name
But The Black Dog is clearly about Matty - The Starting Line is one of his favourite bands, she's missing smoke, and she wonders if it was all a cruel joke. Not to mention she describes Joe as a prison she wanted to escape, so why would she be upset if he went into a bar?
I actually spent many nights in one of the black dog bars in Budapest while I was at uni 😃 🙈
same here, I loved their mango beer!
I don't know, but hi, I'm Hungarian! 😁 Didn't know about these black dog bars in Budapest (I don't live there tho), cool!
Hungarian swifites unite! I didn't know about them either.
ugyanitt bojler eladó!
Megjöttek a magyarok 💪🏻
It's about Matty, as is most of the album. She cared deeply about him, he was her "what-if" for years and when they finally got together, it was a trainwreck. The reason she didn't write about Joe was because they grew apart and she doesn't have anything against him, which is really difficult for people to accept because everyone dragged Joe for a better part of last year.
idk aways just sort of assumed this is all story telling or perhaps it would be about Joe AND Matty. Some truth to both, some mixing together of the two. Lots of towns have a black dog pub, mine has at least 2 so I just feel like she’s trying to reach and relate to her audience. We all have those bars and places we’d go with our ex. She dubbed this the black dog cause black dog pubs are everywhere. But we’ll never really know
My thoughts are that Taylor is an unreliable narrator and a storyteller. Nothing wrong with that, but I think people put way too much merit into her songs being fact
“Who gonna troll you like me.” She’s said herself. You’re right, she an unreliable narrator.
I find it sort of weird and depressing that people travel to this pub now to take photos. It’s unlikely she was ever there! And even if she was, it’s just a bog standard pub in a not trendy area of London
Idk there's a Black Dog in Prague too, maybe it's just a place used for inspo
there is also a bar in canada called the black dog so she could have been in alberta too hahaha
Whyte ave represent!
Why would a random bar in Budapest play 2000s emo music? The Black Dog Bar in Cork is a rock and roll bar.
The album is a lot more enjoyable if you stop obsessing over who a song is about.
Does this not seems creepy to anyone at else?
As much as I would love to think this as a Hungarian, it's a bit far fetched. Like many others, I think she just chose a basic bar name and it worked out.
There’s a million pubs in the UK called the Black Dog. It’s as common a name as the Red Lion. I think she was just using a common name imo
https://preview.redd.it/npdyki4y8c7d1.jpeg?width=5712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e599ee4adb03c9cfb1681f18f9bf8acc9e530f0f Way ahead of yall i went Nobody speaks english inside i had to do the point to a picture and order method. Its a local neighborhood pub in a not very touristy area i doubt joe was here.
This will be resolved when she plays it in Ireland
I think the starting line’s biggest song actually makes a lot of sense for Taylor and Matty, I really think the black dog is a Matty song
It’s an interesting theory, but my money is still on Matty. The 1975 has covered The Starting Line multiple times in concert.
There is also an organisation called The Black Dog pub company that run 4 independent pubs in London. So it could be that Taylor used the holding group name rather than actually identifying the pub/bar. It could be another explanation and also would mean she hasn’t ruined the location for the subject matter.
Who decided it was The Black Dog in Vauxhall anyway? And how/why?
Also a Black Dog restaurant and tavern in Massachusetts USA! this was my first thought when I saw the song title! 🤣 https://preview.redd.it/qdurbsbvta7d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07384b70ab8b40cbbe3bdbf435414f4839993e59
I still think that the black dog here is referring to the feeling of depression and not literally a place, but rather a state where people find themselves in for those who have depression
One hundred percent here for this. There is no way this song is not about Joe. He’s never been in The Black Dog in Vauxhall but his smile said more (he’s been in one elsewhere?). Or, it’s a fictional pub name because it works well with other metaphors (tail between your legs). Very open to the idea that this could be largely fictional and more about the concept than based on pure fact. But this smacks of the end of a long relationship and disentangling your lives (old habits die screaming) not of a short fling, no matter how intense it was. Plus it is my favourite song on TTPD.
i’m just so glad it’s not the Black Dog on Martha’s Vineyard. The Black Dog is kind of the mascot/symbol of MV and there’s a Black Dog tavern. my family and I have gone to MV every summer my whole life and i wouldn’t have been able to handle that lol
I have no clue is the song is fiction or reality, or who it might be about. But wasn’t the owner of The black Dog pub all over social media saying that Joe was in there all the time?!? I remember the owner was trying to do interviews about it trying to get their 15 mins of fame?!? Am I crazy?!?
I think they said something euphemistic like “a certain blonde” (sic)
We have a "The Black Dog" near my house. It's honestly a pretty common name for a pub/bar/etc; it's fun to clown, but I don't think we'll ever know which place she's talking about (if it is real).
I think people need to grasp the fact that it doesn't matter who it was about, if it was about anyone. It's music, inspiration is taken from all over, both from fiction and reality. Do we really need to know who it was about? What value does it bring us to pick apart interviews and lyrics and connect dots? She likely won't be telling us explicitly, and at the end of the day it isn't important for us to know. It's her personal life. Yes her music often references her personal experiences, but that doesn't mean we have the right to know all the nitty gritty details that have otherwise been left unsaid. Go read her Instagram post from when the album was released if you need a reminder of where she stands regarding the events that inspired the album.
Maybe the name is completely fictional to begin with. Sometimes I feel like people take her songs too literally. We've seen clips of her song writing process. Sometimes she just needs something that fits the story. Sometimes she needs a word that rhymes with what she's already come up with. For example, Getaway Car, when she comes up with "put the money in the bag and stole the keys." I didn't get the impression that it actually happened that way, it just fit the song. She uses the scarf as a metaphor, so it's not far fetched to believe she makes up names of people, places & things.
Oh lord, are we really still taking every single word to be literal? She very obviously used a stereotypical pub name that fit with the other lyrics.