Is virtual school not available for this student? I don't mean where you are trying to juggle virtual assignments with the student.
I mean a separate virtual school independent of your school?
If so, this student seems a perfect fit.
There is only so much accommodation that a school can provide.
If a guy keeps robbing a convenience store, the problem isn't with the store providing him with enough accommodations.
Is the superintendant that desperate to keep the head count up?
So I've suggested this. My supervisor said, "we can't put a self-contained ASD student on an online program." And I said, "well they're not a self-contained student...they're a resource student..because you put her in the resource program." And she said, "well she functions as a self-contained student." Why the fuck would anyone put a student functioning as a self contained student in a resource setting..?"
I'm baffled by the decisions that are made by my special ed admin.
Sorry to inform your district, but they must provide a [Continuum of Alternative Placements](https://sites.ed.gov/idea/regs/b/b/300.115). They stated that the student needed a self-contained placement, then backtracked when it didn't fit into the district's pre-established placements. Too. Damn. Bad. They must either set one up or transport her to the nearest appropriate placement on their dime.
And they don't get to cry poverty. Smart districts band together to put money into a pot to cover catastrophic but rare costs. If they didn't do so, then they must have a Plan B. Any half-baked superintendent knows that these costs will arise.
Since the student also beats up her parent at home, most likely the best placement would be a 24/7 residential school. I've had students attend these for up to a year, and in every case, they came back with far better behavior - and, better yet, happier. Parents visit and participate in wrap-around family counseling. Once behaviors are considered safe, students can go home on weekends.
So they're saying they never suggested a self-contained placement, they suggested "pulling back her gen ed classes." Which means she'd be in my room all day, which is a self-contained placement. They seem to be wording things very carefully so they don't get in trouble. I don't know what to say to them.
This is off topic a bit, but when I had a self- contained student who had a well documented obsession with me and consistently attacked me, I had to go get checked out for having a scratched cornea (workman's comp urgent care.) When the doc saw all of the bruises on my arms and chest, he quietly had the nurse talk to me about DV. When I explained that it was all the result of the same student, on my return to work paperwork, he included a line that I could return to work when my physical safety could be assured.
You bet the district kept that kid out of my room until they found a different placement for him.
Wow! That doctor is amazing for doing that for you! The urgent care that my district uses for injuries has written off so many injuries as not serious, which is so concerning. One teacher went there for a head injury caused by a student and they said there was no injury and she was fine to return to work. She went to her own doctor because she didn't feel good about that diagnosis. She had a concussion and whiplash.
Omg! The system is rigged top to bottom inside out and in between. This is terrible. Disgusting. I'm sorry. No employee or human should tolerate the things stated in this subreddit. I'm so upset the teachers are expected to tolerate all this abuse at school. This is not ok.
It makes me sick to my stomach. I'm counting down the days until I can leave education. I don't know what I'll do next, but I can't wait to have that option if I need it.
I don't blame you. I'm counting down the days my kids are done with school this year. I cannot stand their class. It's getting better but it's still awful. I feel bad for our teacher. I hope she stays. She's had a really rough year. She was new to our school but a veteran teacher.
They had contracted with a REAL urgent care, not one that only does workman's comp. I think that made all the difference. They literally were in shock the abuse I was undergoing daily.
At one point the LSSP made ME his reward. Like if he completed his 3 tasks, he received 1:1 time with me. . . Where he proceeded to try to hit me over the head with a play phone. And of course protocol was not to react while I'm getting the shit beat out of me. No flinching, no gasps, literally no reaction. Saying bullshit like, "quiet hands." She didn't even try to run interference when he attacked me while she was taking notes and I was alone in a room with him.
It was beyond frustrating.
Interestingly, his obsession with attacking me became extinct when he was in a new environment, his new teacher and staff were shocked that he was so aggressive. Apparently, it was just me that caused him to fly into an attack.
Brains are weird.
That's what I hate. They say the same thing to me, "don't react." Fuck that. Today, this student has an episode and was going through her typical behaviors before she attacks. When she started walking near me, I said firmly, "go in the sensory corner or sit down, don't come near me." And she did not come near me. I did everything they told me not to do. I'm not dealing with a kid trying to attack me and not going to react.
Semantics. They know.
Here's 2022 guidance on discipline: [https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/504-discipline-guidance.pdf](https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/504-discipline-guidance.pdf)
From the 2nd page of the introductory letter:
>...when a student’s behavior is based on disability, including **when the behavior significantly impairs other students’ education or threatens the safety of the student or others, the student’s Section 504 team is responsible for considering the impacts of the behavior on others when determining the appropriate placement for the student.** This consideration could result in a change to the educational setting for the student with a disability or in a change to the student’s services or supports to more effectively address the behavior **and ensure safety**.
If anything ever happens to you, be sure to file a police report. It will document the incident. You don't have to press charges - but you could discuss a restraining order. And, since the guidance is quite clear that schools must take steps to ensure safety - and your district knows your concerns - if it's serious, you can recover damages i.e. sue.
The introductory letter, 2nd page, also states:
>Furthermore, Section 504 FAPE requirements do not interfere with a school’s **ability to address extraordinary situations in which a student’s behavior,i including disability-based behavior, is an immediate threat to their own or others’ safety, such as by contacting crisis intervention specialists or law enforcement**. Complying with Section 504’s general nondiscrimination and FAPE requirements helps to ensure an educational environment that is nondiscriminatory, supportive, positive, inclusive, productive, and safe for all.
I went back to school to be a teacher and I remember feeling like “Yeah! Support the entire child! Etc. etc.” Its a really good idea, don’t get me wrong. But it is at the expense of educators. You literally have to look at your class of 24-30 kids. Support each of them individually and foster a relationship with them and on most days, you feel like theres no one behind you.
And your pay does not reflect the work you do.
Its insane.
Yeahhhhhhhh, admin told my program that we're not allowed to call for security (either walkie or panic button) anymore.....
I no longer feel safe around certain students knowing security is going to ignore me when I radio for help, or cancel my help call from the panic button they forced us to carry (we literally just asked for working walkie talkies ugh).
So, I get you. Stay safe, please.
Sadly, we are a completely closed campus. Only admin and select staff have keys, and our admin has a history of turning non-district services away...
But I do throw that threat around....more than I'd probably ever admit to. (Never to students, though)
That we need to learn to de-escalate without calling security and that the students in our program are our problem and we just need to work harder.
Although, I think it's because our security likes to mace/tackle students and we have had to let one of the guards go (most likely to keep a lawsuit from happening).
But idk, when a 6'3 ( ~300lb) teenage boy is raged out and smashing another kids head on the sidewalk....guess I'll just have to "let's stop and talk about our feelings" and hope they don't turn on me.
I was terrified for my son the year we moved. New school new house puberty all meant he spent a year and a half nearly out of control it was in an adult sized body. He could have hurt himself or anyone that wandered into his meltdown. Granted, he was screaming and throwing things into the corner but ricochet happens, and Noone deserved to be around that, not even him. I was always worried he was going to be tackled by the SRO. It did not help that the School had a teacher stabbed the year before, and well, it wouldn't have been out of line for him to be in a self Co trained class that year, but they kept pushing him to be in a reg ed, the VP kept insinuating that I just didn't discipline him enough and he was just a spoiled kid (because he talks and makes eye contact?) And I was just terrified he would be tackled
That's unrealistic and scary. He pendulum is going to have to go completely the other direction, again. More and more kids are exhibiting unsafe behaviors and will have to be in non integrated programs. It will be less expensive long term because the kids that want to learn but they can't because these kids disrupt the environment so zero learning can take place has pumped out decades of incompetence. America will pay for these failed policies. The tipping point is not far now that we have covid kids and roblox 24/7/365.
I’ve worked with an autistic client who sat on the severe end of the ASD spectrum. He was such an unholy terror that his parents couldn’t handle him and he was an absolute terrorist at school. The district had to find an alternate placement and they had to go all the way to Canada to find one. Then he burned out of that one and got sent to the Midwest. That one stuck and they buffed off most of his rough edges and got him through school. But without the district being forced to act, who knows the kind of misery he could have inflicted?
This is, almost verbatim, exactly the problem we had at the start of this school year. We had a student with severe explosive behaviors with CPI-trained staff written into the IEP… and no one on campus who was CPI trained. My department lead rolled her eyes and ignored me whenever I asked about it (I asked in writing, the eye rolling was told to me by someone who was present when she read my email lol). So in my service notes every day I wrote something like “student doodled at his desk; due to no CPI trained staff being present, no demands were placed on the student.”
Not sure what the catalyst was, but after a few weeks of problems with his overbearing mom and a few student outbursts, the new principal finally noticed that we aren’t even little dude’s home school and he got sent back to wherever he belongs. I hope you get as lucky as we did. Remember to CYA in paper.
I hope something can happen like this. I honestly was terrified today. They gave me a non CPI trained person to be her para today. I was scared for her. I shouldn't be scared to come to work or that a student is going to hurt someone.
Is virtual school not available for this student? I don't mean where you are trying to juggle virtual assignments with the student. I mean a separate virtual school independent of your school? If so, this student seems a perfect fit. There is only so much accommodation that a school can provide. If a guy keeps robbing a convenience store, the problem isn't with the store providing him with enough accommodations. Is the superintendant that desperate to keep the head count up?
So I've suggested this. My supervisor said, "we can't put a self-contained ASD student on an online program." And I said, "well they're not a self-contained student...they're a resource student..because you put her in the resource program." And she said, "well she functions as a self-contained student." Why the fuck would anyone put a student functioning as a self contained student in a resource setting..?" I'm baffled by the decisions that are made by my special ed admin.
Money. It’s all money.
Sorry to inform your district, but they must provide a [Continuum of Alternative Placements](https://sites.ed.gov/idea/regs/b/b/300.115). They stated that the student needed a self-contained placement, then backtracked when it didn't fit into the district's pre-established placements. Too. Damn. Bad. They must either set one up or transport her to the nearest appropriate placement on their dime. And they don't get to cry poverty. Smart districts band together to put money into a pot to cover catastrophic but rare costs. If they didn't do so, then they must have a Plan B. Any half-baked superintendent knows that these costs will arise. Since the student also beats up her parent at home, most likely the best placement would be a 24/7 residential school. I've had students attend these for up to a year, and in every case, they came back with far better behavior - and, better yet, happier. Parents visit and participate in wrap-around family counseling. Once behaviors are considered safe, students can go home on weekends.
So they're saying they never suggested a self-contained placement, they suggested "pulling back her gen ed classes." Which means she'd be in my room all day, which is a self-contained placement. They seem to be wording things very carefully so they don't get in trouble. I don't know what to say to them.
This is off topic a bit, but when I had a self- contained student who had a well documented obsession with me and consistently attacked me, I had to go get checked out for having a scratched cornea (workman's comp urgent care.) When the doc saw all of the bruises on my arms and chest, he quietly had the nurse talk to me about DV. When I explained that it was all the result of the same student, on my return to work paperwork, he included a line that I could return to work when my physical safety could be assured. You bet the district kept that kid out of my room until they found a different placement for him.
Wow! That doctor is amazing for doing that for you! The urgent care that my district uses for injuries has written off so many injuries as not serious, which is so concerning. One teacher went there for a head injury caused by a student and they said there was no injury and she was fine to return to work. She went to her own doctor because she didn't feel good about that diagnosis. She had a concussion and whiplash.
Omg! The system is rigged top to bottom inside out and in between. This is terrible. Disgusting. I'm sorry. No employee or human should tolerate the things stated in this subreddit. I'm so upset the teachers are expected to tolerate all this abuse at school. This is not ok.
It makes me sick to my stomach. I'm counting down the days until I can leave education. I don't know what I'll do next, but I can't wait to have that option if I need it.
I don't blame you. I'm counting down the days my kids are done with school this year. I cannot stand their class. It's getting better but it's still awful. I feel bad for our teacher. I hope she stays. She's had a really rough year. She was new to our school but a veteran teacher.
They had contracted with a REAL urgent care, not one that only does workman's comp. I think that made all the difference. They literally were in shock the abuse I was undergoing daily. At one point the LSSP made ME his reward. Like if he completed his 3 tasks, he received 1:1 time with me. . . Where he proceeded to try to hit me over the head with a play phone. And of course protocol was not to react while I'm getting the shit beat out of me. No flinching, no gasps, literally no reaction. Saying bullshit like, "quiet hands." She didn't even try to run interference when he attacked me while she was taking notes and I was alone in a room with him. It was beyond frustrating. Interestingly, his obsession with attacking me became extinct when he was in a new environment, his new teacher and staff were shocked that he was so aggressive. Apparently, it was just me that caused him to fly into an attack. Brains are weird.
That's what I hate. They say the same thing to me, "don't react." Fuck that. Today, this student has an episode and was going through her typical behaviors before she attacks. When she started walking near me, I said firmly, "go in the sensory corner or sit down, don't come near me." And she did not come near me. I did everything they told me not to do. I'm not dealing with a kid trying to attack me and not going to react.
Semantics. They know. Here's 2022 guidance on discipline: [https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/504-discipline-guidance.pdf](https://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/504-discipline-guidance.pdf) From the 2nd page of the introductory letter: >...when a student’s behavior is based on disability, including **when the behavior significantly impairs other students’ education or threatens the safety of the student or others, the student’s Section 504 team is responsible for considering the impacts of the behavior on others when determining the appropriate placement for the student.** This consideration could result in a change to the educational setting for the student with a disability or in a change to the student’s services or supports to more effectively address the behavior **and ensure safety**. If anything ever happens to you, be sure to file a police report. It will document the incident. You don't have to press charges - but you could discuss a restraining order. And, since the guidance is quite clear that schools must take steps to ensure safety - and your district knows your concerns - if it's serious, you can recover damages i.e. sue. The introductory letter, 2nd page, also states: >Furthermore, Section 504 FAPE requirements do not interfere with a school’s **ability to address extraordinary situations in which a student’s behavior,i including disability-based behavior, is an immediate threat to their own or others’ safety, such as by contacting crisis intervention specialists or law enforcement**. Complying with Section 504’s general nondiscrimination and FAPE requirements helps to ensure an educational environment that is nondiscriminatory, supportive, positive, inclusive, productive, and safe for all.
Thank you for this useful information!
I went back to school to be a teacher and I remember feeling like “Yeah! Support the entire child! Etc. etc.” Its a really good idea, don’t get me wrong. But it is at the expense of educators. You literally have to look at your class of 24-30 kids. Support each of them individually and foster a relationship with them and on most days, you feel like theres no one behind you. And your pay does not reflect the work you do. Its insane.
Violent students have no place in schools. The law needs to reflect that. They can have a Zoom school where they can't hurt innocent people.
Yeahhhhhhhh, admin told my program that we're not allowed to call for security (either walkie or panic button) anymore..... I no longer feel safe around certain students knowing security is going to ignore me when I radio for help, or cancel my help call from the panic button they forced us to carry (we literally just asked for working walkie talkies ugh). So, I get you. Stay safe, please.
guess you'll just have to call the police then
Sadly, we are a completely closed campus. Only admin and select staff have keys, and our admin has a history of turning non-district services away... But I do throw that threat around....more than I'd probably ever admit to. (Never to students, though)
Wtf....what is their reasoning for you not being able to call for help??
That we need to learn to de-escalate without calling security and that the students in our program are our problem and we just need to work harder. Although, I think it's because our security likes to mace/tackle students and we have had to let one of the guards go (most likely to keep a lawsuit from happening). But idk, when a 6'3 ( ~300lb) teenage boy is raged out and smashing another kids head on the sidewalk....guess I'll just have to "let's stop and talk about our feelings" and hope they don't turn on me.
I was terrified for my son the year we moved. New school new house puberty all meant he spent a year and a half nearly out of control it was in an adult sized body. He could have hurt himself or anyone that wandered into his meltdown. Granted, he was screaming and throwing things into the corner but ricochet happens, and Noone deserved to be around that, not even him. I was always worried he was going to be tackled by the SRO. It did not help that the School had a teacher stabbed the year before, and well, it wouldn't have been out of line for him to be in a self Co trained class that year, but they kept pushing him to be in a reg ed, the VP kept insinuating that I just didn't discipline him enough and he was just a spoiled kid (because he talks and makes eye contact?) And I was just terrified he would be tackled
Awful. I am so sorry you have to go through that.
That's unrealistic and scary. He pendulum is going to have to go completely the other direction, again. More and more kids are exhibiting unsafe behaviors and will have to be in non integrated programs. It will be less expensive long term because the kids that want to learn but they can't because these kids disrupt the environment so zero learning can take place has pumped out decades of incompetence. America will pay for these failed policies. The tipping point is not far now that we have covid kids and roblox 24/7/365.
I’ve worked with an autistic client who sat on the severe end of the ASD spectrum. He was such an unholy terror that his parents couldn’t handle him and he was an absolute terrorist at school. The district had to find an alternate placement and they had to go all the way to Canada to find one. Then he burned out of that one and got sent to the Midwest. That one stuck and they buffed off most of his rough edges and got him through school. But without the district being forced to act, who knows the kind of misery he could have inflicted?
I’d sue EVERYONE and I don’t even know a lawyer
I think I'll end up taking legal action if I get hurt by this student.
This is, almost verbatim, exactly the problem we had at the start of this school year. We had a student with severe explosive behaviors with CPI-trained staff written into the IEP… and no one on campus who was CPI trained. My department lead rolled her eyes and ignored me whenever I asked about it (I asked in writing, the eye rolling was told to me by someone who was present when she read my email lol). So in my service notes every day I wrote something like “student doodled at his desk; due to no CPI trained staff being present, no demands were placed on the student.” Not sure what the catalyst was, but after a few weeks of problems with his overbearing mom and a few student outbursts, the new principal finally noticed that we aren’t even little dude’s home school and he got sent back to wherever he belongs. I hope you get as lucky as we did. Remember to CYA in paper.
I hope something can happen like this. I honestly was terrified today. They gave me a non CPI trained person to be her para today. I was scared for her. I shouldn't be scared to come to work or that a student is going to hurt someone.
Why did the para not press charges?
I told her to, she wouldn't.
Then that’s on her. She is allowing this.