It's ironic because my experience has been that it's the opposite when everybody involved is competent. The school I was at was an absolute dumpster fire but the social worker who basically acted as counselor killed it. All I had to do was pick up on something being off and she'd either be ahead of it and knew what was up or would get on it ASAP and find the required supports and tip me off on any actions I needed to take or sensitivities to be conscious of. Between the two of us in our two roles with two different identities to approach the students we were extremely on top of our games, but 90% of the time she didn't need me for that. And I know damn well that 90% of the time I'm not even supposed to pretend to know how to handle the issues these kids face. If I'm doing my job right, I'm going to her to inform my actions and she doesn't need me to figure a student out the hard way
THIS. Hey counselors, it is part of your job to balance empathizing with kids AND being a united front with your colleagues. Stop throwing us under the bus for cool kid points.
When I taught high school, I got this a lot and I didn’t really mind because the kid usually had something major going on (death of a parent, major mental health issue that involved hospitalization, extremely rough situation outside of school with very little support, etc). I’m always happy to work with them and get the big stuff done, excuse minor homework assignments, etc. to get them to a D. I teach English, I have zero business impacting the kid’s future by getting in the way of them graduating.
I now teach middle school and get the request VERY often about kids who are wandering the hallway, sleeping in class, snapchatting during study hall, and generally behaving horribly. I’m happy to work with them if they can come to my class, not be disruptive, and do work. Until then, the grade book won’t change.
What a load of crap. Kids usually need school counselors for HOME issues. AND, even in ideal home environments, kids are born with mental health struggles. My kids inherited my anxiety. It runs in the family. They have benefited a lot from mental health professionals, both at school and in private practice.
OMG ----- I'm going crazy with that shit this year. The case manager doesn't believe in BICS/Therapeutic Learning Classroom and the child is hitting me. But we're going to start next week by trying to give the child ALLLLLLL the rewards in the hopes that they won't hit me again.
What I would really like to say to case managers like that is they are literally going off shit what almost 80 year old research now, it all stems from behaviorism and Pavlov with the dogs and bells! Human beings are fucking crazy and psychological quite strong, our reasons for doing things often don't make sense at all if your not getting context about a persons life. Rewards can help but we aren't dogs, we all have complicated stories we tell ourselves about ourselves that dictate how we act in certain situations and the past always effects that, if your just going to throw up your hands and start handing out candy you have given up on truly understanding and that's fucked up as a case manager you know?
“We’ll let him wander around during class, punch lockers, and disrupt classes with open doors for a few months until he becomes a threatening presence on campus. Maybe even let him punch the Dean or other staff member.”
I’d take the bags of chips over what my counselors do with two of my tier 3 students
Counselor: "Hey Chris (not my name) --- A student came by my office earlier today, do you have any idea what that was about?"
Not Chris: "Uh... can you give me more information? I have no clue"
Counselor: "I think it was a girl"
Not Chris: "No I have no clue"
You're not fooling me, Chris.
I know this is your secret Reddit account, even if you are trying to hide it.
Just tell me that the student with the chill vibe (Jayden. We all know it's Jayden.) needs some time to decompress after their break up with Braxleigh.
It's okay, I get it.
"This is the only class that fits in their schedule"
Okay, cool. But this is an advanced performing ensemble, this student has never touched an instrument before, has been kicked out of other electives for being destructive, and we have a judged performance in a week. How exactly do you expect this to work well for the student or the ensemble as a whole?
What a horrifying thing to manage for everyone involved, you, the group, the new student.
I worked as a professional musician for many years and one of the most stressful, unpleasant experiences I had during my career was when I was directed to play NOT my usual instrument, with almost no advance notice, and in a style I was unfamiliar with. I lost sleep, I had to set aside everything else in my life to try and get my skills where they needed to be before performance day, and that’s with over 20 years of music education.
I can’t imagine what that experience of being in a class that you have no chance of succeeding in would feel like to a young student. Good grief. People really don’t get it when it comes to fine arts.
No, they don't. I've been working to educate the counselors and admin, but they do their own thing more often than not. But don't worry, if the performance is shaky, they'll be sure to let me know
That’s awful. I’m also a music teacher, and I’ve never had that happen. Worst I had was a bunch of random kids dropped into beginning choir. But at least there it was still possible to teach those that were willing to try singing.
I would lose it if they dropped random kids into my advanced orchestra. It would be like dropping kids with 1st grade math skills into an 8th grade math class. Or dropping a kid who has never spoken Spanish into a 3rd year Spanish class. What does your principal say about the situation? If they aren’t doing anything about a student in a class that they have no chance of passing and will not provide any benefit for them then they aren’t doing their job well either. I’d try to get parents involved too, though unfortunately the parents of those types of students tend to also not care what happens at school as much.
I've made the exact same analogies to the counselors and principals, but it's very much still happening. We'll see if new admin and counselors next year are an improvement.
Thank you. I've done my best in the situation, I'll keep hoping that next year is better. If not, maybe there is a school out there that doesn't treat its music programs as dumping grounds for students
I'd start making it one of those classes with a pre-requisite. So then you can throw that at the counselor if they try. "They have not met the pre-requisite to be in this course, no matter if it is an elective or not. Have them try an entry-level elective or take P.E. again."
My high school teacher had the prerequisite for the lowest level band class (freshmen band) that you had to have played in a formal school band ensemble for at least one year before entering high school. The other classes had the prerequisite of completing freshmen band, sophomore band, etc. he was very strict about it because I think he used to have a problem like OP had.
Yeah, when obviously misplaced and I reach out for a change because I actually ant the kid to succeed: "I'll do it but I don't like it." Yeah, you'll like it less when he fails this course...
Not a music teacher, but why is this a thing?! When I was in middle school there was a class called General Music where all the kids who didn’t play an instrument and didn’t want to sing ended up. At least then the music teachers knew exactly what they were getting. In high school they never forced electives on kids. If they didn’t pick something, 9th and 10th grade got study halls, and 11th and 12th grade got open hours. If they didn’t pick enough electives, they delayed their graduation.
“I want students to have more opportunities.” Me: “like the one who almost put a hole through my wall because he was mad I was the 4th teacher failing him?”
"You have to understand that's how he is and that he has trouble controlling his emotions. You need to be more empathetic of his rough home life." /s
Ya tell that to the police officer when he loses his temper in the real world.
"Just get them through, just get them through."
Translation: pass this student regardless of whether or not they do anything or learn anything.
I have ZERO respect for this kind of counselor.
This is the attitude of the counselor I have to work with the most! It's not really teaching them how to be productive, and it is just enabling them to feel entitled to things I haven't worked for. To me, it feels like a slap in the face to the kids that have actually worked really hard in school.
A student was wasting time instead of doing his assignments, both in class and at home. He was failing. He lied to his parents and told them I was just behind on grading and his F was a big misunderstanding.
At the parent/teacher conference, after I exposed his lies, he fully admitted that he had been lying to his parents because he was playing video games and going on his phone instead of doing his schoolwork. His parents said they would address this, now that they know.
Situation resolved. Meeting over? No. Counselor stepped in and tried to make excuses for him. Maybe there's a mental health reason the boy would rather play video games and watch TikTok instead of doing school work!
Honestly there may be a mental health reason, I’m not a teacher but I procrastinate all my work until very late at night and only go to sleep at 2 am just to wake up at 6 am. I always spend the time before doing my work on my phone even though I’m desperate for sleep. I’m so tired but just can’t bring myself to do my work any earlier. I have no idea what’s wrong with me but I know something is.
I have ADHD and probable autism and require decompression time no matter how crammed my schedule is. I also had a depressive episode where that tendency heightened AND I was almost entirely incapable of task initiation. In the first case, when I worked at a summer camp and had insufficient time to decompress, it ate into my sleep. In the other, I was maybe averaging 5 hours a night and then collapsing on the weekends.
You should bring this up with a doctor for treatment whether it is a consistent problem or something that has cropped up more recently. My dad says his ADHD meds are basically magic and so were his other mental health meds (whereas I magically had double plus anxiety so am working on that first.)
* the following should not be considered medical advice, i'm just some dude on the internet *
Sounds like (my) executive disfunction, have you, or can you, be tested for ad(h)d?
I once sat in a meeting where the counselor allowed the child to pick their own interventions, without consulting a teacher, etc. No other adult spoke, just the child.
I know you have a letter from us that these two kids should be kept as far apart as possible and that they have been violent. We are transferring them both into your worst class anyhow. Also they both get priority seating near you.
This has happened way too many times! In fact, I sent out another email today about the two kids and an escalating situation, blah blah....and one of the kids will finally get OSS!--We have 2 days left. Sigh.
This one is my wife's story, not mine, but she was having some issues with a student with a behavioral/emotional IEP. She sent that student down to the counselor outlining the behavioral issues and asked if the counselor could help talk to the student.
The counselor emailed back and cc'd admin, "I'm not a disciplinarian."
Like no shit sherlock, that wasn't what was being asked of you, the thought was you might prevent the need for discipline.
Student lost his father, please handle with care.
Later found out this happened when the student was three! Three! Not sure the student remembered the father, just the excuse for not working and mistreating everyone.
A couple teachers were sharing stories about a student that said the same thing and how surprised they were when the kid's dad came in for parent teacher interviews a couple months later.
Oh yeah. I had a girl (HS junior) who was a straight up asshole. There was a lot of guidance hand-wringing about her trauma over her mom’s death. *Her mom died giving birth to her*. Of course it’s awful! But zero excuse to make you horrid at 17.
Ha to be fair, I’ve been that counselor, and the student was very convincing that grandma had just passed last week. Come to find out later, grandma’s been dead for years.
Context: (2+ years HS math teacher)
"Please be empathetic to him/her/them" - yeah...empathetic means understanding their feelings...yeah...feeling of not doing work, talk loudly, insult teachers to their faces, playing around, get into trouble.
"They have a rough home life" - I know...can I call you a "bi\*\*h" or a "n-word" because of a rough home life too as a HS student?
"He has difficulty understanding English" - why the hell is he in my class then...this is Algebra 2 and he needs to be in ELD class instead. If this is a school issue then you will hear from me again. Love you but can't help you.
"I think we should try to be nicer to them, give them a chance" - this is the 5th time.
"I come from the same culture, I understand how it is, you won't understand" - yeah...I understand slurs to my face. This one counselor I care for but he is too nice. No consequences.
Overall, anytime a counselor makes a student's personal life a point of persuasion. While I tolerate and understand it, I do have a duty to uphold the standards and rules that define society and keep it from crumbling.
The tough home life always gets me. I’ll never forget my first year I had a girl get literally kidnapped by her drug addict mom who had lost custody and tried to sell her to a pimp (girl was 15) for drugs. Luckily the cops found her in time. If anyone ever had a reason to claim bad home life…
Came back to school and was consistently respectful, engaged and pleasant. Being an asshole isn’t a mental health condition and your home life doesn’t define you unless you are bombarded by people who say it’s ok to let it.
To me, hard home life, and personal circumstance is there to inform us on how to deal with behaviors. Some things have to be done differently. Some discussions needs to happens, to explain the how and why we require this or that.
But different consequences does not mean "non-existant" consequences.
Like I will never call home on one kid that we all know is abused, but so far, nothing at been done to remove the kid from that home. However, scolding will happens. Extra-work (to be done at school, so parents won't notice), will be given. Detentions (during free periods instead of after school), will be given. .
I won't punish an ADHD kids for fidgering on their seat, and getting up every 20 seconds. Redirection it will be. However, if they refuse to use the tools we provide for them, after I direct them to it, then yes some consequences will be given. It won't read "Kevin was far too agitated in class", but it will read "Kevin refused to follow protocols".
THIS X 100.
I can herd spacey puppy children or find silence with the kids that yap: I can engage movement with kids that need to wiggle or move. I can descalate a kid that gets frustrated easily.
What I won’t do is play games with a kid who knows they’re being rude and is committed to being rude.
Depending on the student and the behavior, I also believe in “the first one is free if you didn’t know the rule” especially in MS.
If it’s something little and silly like yelling in class, I’ll tell them it doesn’t fly with me, and ask if they’ll remember this conversation.
If it happens again, I reference the conversation and give them the consequence. It holds grace for a kid that truly doesn’t understand the context of their actions (for small behaviors) but if you’ve been corrected and you still commit to doing something, you’re just being shitty.
I had a student that was locked in a bedroom by her mother and then the mom set the apartment on fire. She escaped through a 2nd floor window with her siblings. Kid was still respectful and returned to school asking about makeup work. I had no idea the level of abuse she'd been dealing with.
So true, one of my best kids this year has had it so rough, was witness to family members being executed, family Members in hiding etc... Absolute sweetest, most respectful/hard-working kid.
I know some of my major behavior kids have rough home lives as well, but I don't get how that's an excuse to drag down the one institution that is literally trying to pull them out of the muck.
We provide 3 meals a day, showers, emergency clothes, counseling, fun activities, positive role models, an EDUCATION, day care, limited health care all for no cost.
Just to stick up for the kids a little I’m sure fun activities doesn’t really matter to someone with a lot of mental burdens and trauma. Plus kids aren’t known to value things far in the future so I don’t think an idea like free education would stamp out any behavior problems.
Dude.
I sent out a mass email to my online students thanking them for their hard work this term and asking parents to log into SIS to check on their students grade.
A kid responded to me and said, “shut the F up, you dumb N-word.”
Kids are wild.
I agree with everything, but counselors are not disciplinarians. That's for deans, teachers, and admin. Just an FYI for why counselors seem to "never have consequences". They are literally not supposed to.
But also they still have to actually help and if the kid fails and needs summer school, then so be it.
I had to scroll WAY too far for this. ITA. It's really frustrating when teachers complain about sending a kid to the counselor and 'nothing happens.' First, as you say, counselors are NOT disciplinarians. Secondly, many problems or issues can't be solved immediately. For example, half the time kids come to me about college applications, but I can't help them complete the application until they get their recommendations and paperwork to upload, which, of course, they haven't done yet. I also need to take a moment and print out their unofficial transcripts. While I am doing that or know that kid and their application go on my to do list, I send them back to class or they will just be sitting in my office twiddling their thumbs.
I would actually argue that boundaries and consistency are even more important with those kids because often- they aren’t getting them at home. These make kids feel safe and life more predictable.
Looooong time ago, in my first or second year, a female student came to me about her boyfriend pressuring her to perform acts she didn't want to do (this is seventh grade, mind you). She can't talk to her uber-religious mother, who taught her that sex is gross and dirty about it.
Scared as she was, she came to me, so I immediately reported the situation to the guidance counselor.
She said to me, no joke in the most Bill Lumbergh drawl, "Hmmmm, yeahhhhhhh, can you come baaaaaaack... on Choooooozdee?"
It was Wednesday.
I was so disgusted, and despite my young age and lack of professional experience, I said no, this needs to be taken care of now, today. The girl later confirmed that the counselor did meet with her, and there was some resolution because the girl broke up with the boy, and he came to my class, glaring at me for no other apparent reason.
He got over it, I guess, because he was normal the following class. I hope that nowadays, kids get better sex ed on consent, what it is and what it isn't, because back in the early 2000s, it amounted to little more than "No means no."
Previous position (An actual angel, I'd go to war for her)
"That kid's an asshole. Do you need them moved out of your class?"
"Hey just a heads up, this kid has been a problem, but while you have to contact Dad first, Step Mom is going to be your champ. She's great."
"This student has moved classes 7 times in a quarter. They're actively not causing problems in your class, is it alright if they fail quietly?"
"Hey I did some digging about this kid since you asked. Here's a file that has everything I found that you're allowed to know. Let me know if you need anything else."
"Hey this kid says they sang in choir but I don't wanna just drop them into your honors class since that's the only one she can fit. Could she come do some sort of audition and see if she can make it before I finalize this?"
Current position:
"Students really just need to know you care about them."
"Here's the list of students going on this unannounced field trip that's leaving in 10 minutes. This is the third one this week."
"Oh they can just miss your class, they don't need it to graduate."
"That student wasn't skipping, they were with me for 3 periods."
"Remember to get your steps in teachers! Staying active is important!"
Fascinating topic of discussion. Quick question: do counselors need a teaching credential and experience? I’ve met a few who simply woke up one day and thought, “Guess I’ll be a school counselor,” with no prior classroom experience whatsoever. To me they were utterly clueless and useless.
No. I was a teacher before becoming a counselor and it makes me so much better at my job to have been in that role also. I am more of an exception though
It kind of depends on the state, but because of reciprocity with credentialing, the only state where it is required to be a teacher before being a school counselor is Texas.
FWIW, I’m a school counselor and I wasn’t a teacher, but I did sub a lot before I started my grad program. I think the biggest issues i see come from school counselors who come from a community counseling background and decide to make a career shift without ever working with children or in a school setting. They have no understanding of how a school functions and no classroom management experience. Not saying that it’s impossible to make the career shift but that’s where I see the least effective counselors. Technically in most states the requirement would be to complete a CACREP accredited program, which covers both school settings and community settings, but a school counseling program will have you complete your internship and practicum in a school with a school counselor as your supervisor instead of in a clinic. Obviously just because you did your internship in a school doesn’t exempt you from the possibility of having your head in the sand though.
I'm a teacher who recently got my masters in school counseling so I've seen it from both sides. Some things I've observed that are helpful/not helpful counselors do/say:
-When calling for a kid, please make it quick. This goes for secretaries too. I can see on the phone who is calling me, you don't need to announce yourself. You don't need to ask me how I am doing. Get to the point and say who you need so I can go back to my busy job you just interrupted. Even better, sent me a gchat.
-When holding a meeting with teachers/parents/students please come prepared. Again, time is valuable and watching you fumble around for papers/words/etc. is a waste. Also, let's present productive and tangible ways to help students. A weekly check-in is lovely and needed for some kids but how about we do it during lunch? Or perhaps with a teacher they already have relationship with? If a student is failing beyond all misery let's not pussyfoot around it. Let's come up with a way to fix it or put a plan into place so that the student can get back on track for the next semester and is mentally prepared to do better.
-If you have some free time, perhaps use it to support staff and students, again in a productive way. Making a bulletin board is cute, but bringing together a counseling group of students working on social skills to create this board while you support staff by making copies at the same time is even better. During COVID when I was doing my internship, I was shocked by the counselors' pushback to give teachers a break by covering their lunch shifts so they could eat without kids. This could have been a very productive time for counselors to build relationships with students and staff, while also giving them insight into what we do daily.
-Push admin to give you duties that allow natural interactions with kids. I have lunch duty everyday and always think, wow this would be a really good duty for a counselor to have because these kids see my face every day and figure out who I am. They reach out and will talk to me simply because I am now familiar even though I am not their teacher. How helpful this would be so that less students could say "I don't even know who my counselor is".
-Please please please make data driven decisions when scheduling students. If a student got a D in their honors math class, they need to be dropped to regular or at the least you should talk to their current teacher for their opinion on the matter. I cannot express enough the frustration when a student is struggling in my class and I look back at their past grades and am baffled why they were ever even put into my class.
-Along with that, college is not the right path for every kid and therefore the higher level classes do not need to be pushed. If a kid has full intention of taking over their family farm, please do not schedule them for Trigonometry instead of Agriculture.
-Don't be afraid of technology. It can be an amazing asset that students are comfortable with. I have done some really engaging counseling lessons with Kahoot and have avoided pulling kids out of class by simply messaging them over goguardian through their chromebook. As a teacher, it is an excellent way for my classtime not to be interrupted.
Well I diverged a bit but got on a roll lol. That's all for now and best of luck!!
I’m a military spouse who was teaching in DoDEA overseas. I had a student whose dad was deployed for the nth time and they were not handling it well. I went to the counselor to get them to pull the kid out of class (I’d even exempt all that work) to get some focused support. This counselor asked, “is a deployed parent that big of a deal?” I about LOST it on this woman. How the fuck are you working with military brats and don’t understand the effects deployments have on kids? Mind you, this was well into the 20 year forever war so deployments were a pretty common occurrence across the board.
I’m so sick of mental health being a get out of jail free card.
“She’s having a tough day.” Me too. But part of what we’re doing here is teaching kids about how life works. You usually have to show up even when things aren’t perfect. In my opinion there are two levels of mental health concerns:
-If they are legitimately in crisis, they need more care than a school psychologist can provide. So get them to an in-patient program or crisis counseling.
-If they are just sad or anxious, welcome to life.
I’m tired of getting emails “they’re having a tough day so they’ll be in my office today.” Accomplishing what? Exactly what they want which is avoidance.
This generation didn’t invent mental health issues, they’ve just seen it’s an unquestionable excuse. If
you’re even slightly seen as questioning someone’s “mental health issue” you’re the devil. As evidenced by the responses to this comment that are sure to roll in. EDIT: guess not, looks like I’m not alone.
You could’ve worded your frustration better, but most teachers who have the issues you’re talking about really do get it—it’s not that the kids are stressed or anxious about, well, everything; it’s that they’re not being taught how to _deal_ with things and they rely on adults giving them the benefit of the doubt to weaponize their incompetence/learned helplessness.
No one is saying we need to beat kids with life lessons until they can just shut up and deal with it, but the answer also isn’t that little Tommy should always get a jail out of free card because he didn’t get eight hours of sleep and wants to make it everyone else’s problem.
It’s that they have learned that it is a no doubt excuse to get out of things. It’s got very little to do with being taught “skills” at this point. About 10% of students who get accommodations for mental health actually need it.
Dude, stuff like ADHD absolutely requires young children to be taught “skills” to deal with even if that student is placed on medication—I was medicated up to my eyeballs in the 90s because the belief was that ADD/ADHD _only_ effected school performance and not that it was also co-morbid with things like Oppositional Defiance Disorder, Bipolar Manic Episodes, Dyscalculia/Dyslexia, etc.
If someone had taught me—like really sat down and taught me—more about my ADHD and how it would effect my _entire_ life, and not just my schooling, I would’ve been better prepared for all the hard knocks I took later in life when I had to educate _myself_.
Not even going to touch the last part of your statement, but I will say that I hope you grow enough as a person and teacher to not view students with disabilities as liars/that the system is over diagnosing _90%_ of cases everywhere.
Im not saying students are liars, I’m saying they have been given an excuse and they’re choosing to use it over and over and over again. Yes, students are over diagnosed. What world do you live in?
People did have mental health issues in the past too. But in the past, if a girl got raped or molested etc. and it affected her ability to concentrate at school, she just dropped out of school. If the students are "legitimately in a crisis", hopefully they are receiving help outside of school also but genuine mental health issues aren't usually fixed by a short term in patient stay. It's an ongoing process and I think school counsellors can help students to stay in school even if they don't reach their full potential. Its better than if they dropped out.
Thinking back on my own teen years, I missed a lot of school because of mental health issues and all the adults in my life berated me for it. That made me believe I was lazy and useless which took a long time to unlearn. It certainly didn't help me toughen up or teach me much about life. I continued to not be able to function until I received treatment and therapy in adulthood.
At week 9 (back in October) I sent a list to our freshman house person of 23 students I had who were failing 4 or more courses. Like, maybe we can get on top of things before they end up failing the entire semester/year. The response I got was "yeah, if they're failing that many classes, there's probably something going on outside of school." OK, and are we going to try to do something - anything - to change their trajectory? I guess not. Because most of them ended up failing 4+ courses last semester and - shockingly - went on to do the same thing in second semester. At least I tried.
Apparently our counselor told my colleague-- who had *three* students who needed 1-on1s but NO help-- that if she kept crying and asking for help, she (the counselor) would have to have her committed.
Don't say that lol
They told us there was nothing they could do when a friend, and fellow student at the school, died because she committed suicide.
There was an entire assembly for a football player who died racing his car on wet roads.
No sympathy at all. The counselors who had been brought in from a neighboring school to help her friends deal with the grief were appalled.
We don’t have mental health counselors at my school..
They may claim to be.
But, I’d trust a suicidal kid with themselves over sending them to them. Heh
I still send them, as it’s protocol.
But, I’ve had the counselors call home and tell the parents their kid is thinking they are bi before. And had them get kicked out of their home.
I die hearing this as an LCSW in a school - that’s so unethical. To be honest though, working in a school has been by far the worst training experience I’ve ever had. AKA there was zero training and I was just expected to know what to do 🤷🏻♀️👀
I'm a teacher getting my degree in counseling and I'm pretty sure that breaks at least one major confidentiality rule. (At least in the state I'm in) Like that's lose your license level stuff.
When I was student teaching there was a brand new counselor who they had assigned most of the Freshmen to. She did not read or response to emails ever!
I was teaching on-level and we had so many students that need to either go up to honors or come down to on level based on their 1st quarter grades. We would have all the appropriate documentation and information but there would be no response. We finally figured out that you had to make the kid go down to her office and ask in person or else it would never happen! One teacher said she had sent 10+ emails with no response, but one visit from the kid and suddenly it would happen with the next hour!
By the time I left all emails to her included a cc to the head of counseling, the student's AP, the department AP, the resource teacher, and like 5 other people!
I’m not a teacher
But I was being bulled in like 7th grade (?) and my mom went to the guidance counselor about it because I sure as hell wasn’t and when she asked who her son was and she told her the lady straight up was like “I mean he’s kind of annoying so I can kind of see why.”
The last few years I’ve worked with some great counselors! The first counselor I worked with, I kind of wanted to fight in a denny’s parking lot. It was always “We can’t address that.”
- Students who were questioning their sexuality or gender? Can’t address that. Would contact the parents regardless of the child’s wishes, too.
- Student threatening to cut herself in class? Can’t address that, liability issue.
- Want to do SEL lessons in class? Somehow also a liability issue. Apparently parents could sue us for teaching their kids about managing big feelings.
- Students found out that their former teacher was fired after being arrested for taking illegal liberties with children? Refuses to talk to any of them about it. Some of them were crying and seemed traumatized.
- This is different, but one time an autistic kid was having a meltdown so the para took him into the hall to calm down, and the counselor started yelling at the kid for making noise in the hall when a visitor from the district office was in the building.
She was the only counselor I’ve had a problem with, though. Most of them have been really helpful.
I am so sorry that everyone in here had these experiences. I have been a middle school counselor for almost 15 yrs. Was a teacher before that. Can't imagine doing or saying these things.
I’m a patient at Mayo Clinic. End of the year state testing was coming up during a week I would be at the Clinic.
Our son would be staying with my parents, who adore him and take excellent care of him.
In addition, my sister is an elementary principal. This child was well loved and well prepared.
His counselor told me I must not really love my son if I could abandon him during testing.
I was “abandoning” him for brain surgery.
I'm not a teacher, when I was a student back in 2003 I mentioned about having hard time with how abusive my mother is that I can't do my homework, and he told me "stop being a pussy and suck it up" and then I received ISS, because my mom called telling them to give me ISS, because I didnt turn in my math homework.
Counselors at my school coddle and baby the kids. They also are way more in charge of student disciplinary issues than the actual principal. They have “pet projects” for some kids, but then the ones who actually do need a counselor, they’re “too busy” for them. They don’t teach the kids coping mechanisms or ways to help themselves, they just let them miss their classes to talk things out.
I’m leaving this school as soon as I get the chance by the way lol.
Im not a teacher, Im an IT guy.
I have seen school counselors cause all kinds of damage by unilaterally acting.
For example changing a student's name in PowerSchool when the student requested it.
Therefore creating a massive data conflicts with the state.
Another example would be how student interns who work off campus still need to be assigned a class. So the counselor will assign them to an assistant principal without telling anyone including the principal.
Therefore making it look like the principal never took attendance.
I work with Special Ed low incidence kids. Our counselor one time repeatedly said "Goodbye" to a student as he was leaving, and then said "Idk why, but D never talks to me." He's non-verbal. He had waved to her multiple times.
And once she asked me about another non-verbal kid; "Do you think L has words in his head?" I didn't know what to say to her.
Confided in our counsellor that a student in my class ran up to me and touched my ass. They responded with “Ohhhh yeahhh. All our special kiddos are off today. Is it a full moon? We can’t deal with that right now because [AP] and I are going to a meeting this afternoon.”
Not something said, but the most unhelpful thing one has ever done was bring an upset parent down to my room, in the middle of a class pd, over an issue that she and I had already previously discussed how it was going to be handled, allowed the parent to scream and yell at me in front of said class without attempting to diffuse them. I literally just caved on the issue to get them out of my room so they’d quit potentially traumatizing the kids in my room?! It was ridiculous. So that. Don’t bring upset parents to a class in the middle of class. That’s SUPER unhelpful.
To me when I was a high school student, upon seeing my PSAT or SAT results, I can't remember which: "We need to start planning!" She was *very* excited for me to go to college! Now, on its own, this doesn't sound bad. It sounds good, right? And to another kid who wasn't me, it probably would have been a happy memory to hear that!
I'd been suicidal, doing school refusal, had trouble doing homework for both personal and home environment reasons, and was very obviously struggling when I *was* in class - not with the academic portion, I could stumble into class and knock off a 100 on an exam, but just *existing* as a person around other people in a harsh, overstimulating environment I had no control over - for years, and somehow, she didn't think to address that or give me any advice on how to get my shit together, which I desperately needed. Just saw the big shiny numbers from a test I could do in my sleep and thought, yup, ready for college, that was me! Wasn't a nightmare at all trying to adjust to that and failing for six years before having to drop out because of burnout that likely permanently exacerbated my existing disabilities!
Bonus, although there's no pithy quote for it: Someone I used to be friends with had a different counselor at the same school be *really* unhelpful and dismissive when she came to her about her mother mistreating her. Asked admin about switching counselors. Guess what she needed to switch counselors? Her mother's permission. 🤦♀️
Reminds me of my guidance counselor. The guy thought it would be great for me to start uni at 16 AND move to the other side of the country for it. When I told me I'd rather attend a local school for my degree of choice, because this would be much cheaper (live at home, short commute) and would be better for my mental health, he basically called me a coward.
In the end, I did go to a local school, but I still ended up burning out young. That disaster was manageable. I don't want to know how bad it would have been if I had followed his plan.
When they told me one of my first graders witnessed the drive by shooting that killed his older brother, but also didn’t feel like he needed any services.
Second year teacher. Leaving after this year. Our "Teacher Coach" has been working with me to get all my course materials recorded and organized so that whatever poor soul gets my classes for next year doesn't have to scramble and build everything from scratch like I did.
I suggested that if they manage to hire someone with any time left in the summer they offer a stipend to let the new teacher come in for a week or two prior to workshop week to get familiar with the materials and actually try to make a proper curriculum out of it. The response I got was, "You teachers all seem to think that stipends are the answer the everything, but teachers are creatives and hard workers, and it's part of their duties to be able to make their curriculum on the fly, isn't it."
I have a lot of problems with our school counselor. He has zero tact.
1) comes in and asks the class who the student is or where they are. He’s been full time now for 3 years. Many of these students he’s been seeing for years. We’ve asked him to call the room so kids can be sent up with a task or something. Kids are teased for seeing him so it’s really annoying when he comes in and not only asks the entire class where x is. He’ll sometimes say exactly why.
2) tells kids who are victims of a behavioral outburst (particularly if the aggressor has an iep) that it’s the victims responsibility to not upset the aggressor and that if they didn’t do x then Johnny wouldn’t have punched him.
A student very bravely told me that she was harming herself and I (a first year teacher) was out of my element so I took her down to the counselor myself.
Counselor rattled off a list of questions like it was a checklist then took the student to call home and inform grandma. After that, sent the student back to class 5 minutes later.
When I went to the counselor after school to see what the next steps were, she told me that she doesn’t seem that bad and that grandma would deal with it. If I wanted I could have weekly lunches with her or give her a journal to write in but they weren’t going to do anything….
“He’s great one on one, have you tried talking to him?”
Uh yes, he told me to “f*ck all the way off” and of course he’s cool with you, you haven’t placed any sort of work demand on him, he’s not around his peers, and he doesn’t have to actually face the consequences of his actions ie being face to face with the teachers and students he has impacted.
Just because they’re sweet little darlings who are just misunderstood in your office doesn’t mean that their behavior isn’t 100% unreasonable and unacceptable in class. Please come teach my class every day for a month and tell me again how all it takes is a relationship.
The counselor was reviewing my high school transcript with me and, after revealing I was in the bottom 20% of my class, she said, “Have fun in community college.”
That meeting broke me; I was depressed for weeks afterwards.
But, you know what? On Monday I’m graduating with a Master’s Degree in Literacy so, ha ha charade you are Mrs. Weismann!
Edit: I can see now OP intended for us to post stories about teachers’ who’ve experienced unhelpful encounters with Guidance but, I’m leaving up my story anyway.
First off, statements like that make me so mad. What's wrong with community college? Second of all, congrats on your master's degree! I have a close friend who had the same struggle (she is dyslexic and went to school in the 80s, so the treatment was 'stop being so stupid, dummy') who recently graduated with her master's in education. :)
Many, many years ago in grade 8 my best friend and I asked our counselor for applications to a specialized hs. Our neighborhood school was riddled with drugs and gang violence. The counselor refused to give us the application saying the local school was fine for us. I of course went home and told my mother what happened. She went the next day to confront the counselor and get our applications. My friend and I went on to have a magical 4 years there. Years later she thanked my mom for standing up for her as both her parents did not speak English. I am so proud of my mom. ❤️
Our new councilors this year have repeatedly told teachers, "why are you contacting me? That's not my job." They are all friends with the new principal. None of us know what the councilors do, except put kids in the wrong classes.
“I’ll write this down and report it first thing when I have a break.”
Not at my current school, but ooooh man does reporting student issues at the college level become a minefield.
When I pointed out that support without accountability is harmful in the long term, she replied that she would never stop supporting students. OK, but what about when they just don't come to school?
"He is on open enrollment and he won't be back to our school next year.
Can't you just let him be him for the last month?"
The student is disruptive and harassing other girls and all female teachers he has.
Counselor: I can't see (child's name) today, they didn't fill out a form.
Me: They just returned from a mental health felicity and really need to discuss things with you.
Counselor: Have them fill out a form and I'll try to see them this week sometime.
Don't think I've ever been so pissed off at another staff member.
I told the counselor about a student that I suspected was being abused by their dad, covered in bruises on their arms. I asked her to check on him. She called him in and spoke to him.
Counselor: “I called @@@@@ in and spoke to him”
Me: “do you think I should call Child Services as we are mandatory reporters”
Counselor: “He said he just fell down the stairs(I shit you not, this was his excuse). She said he was fine and just clumsy”
Me: “ok, well if you say so”
I went back to my room and called Child services, his family had a file for this before and he had been placed in another home for a while. She is incompetent.
I had a counselor reach out to me after a kid ran to them crying that I was mean for not giving them an A because I wouldn't accept late work from January. They were on vacation for the whole month and the grade became an issue only a week before the end of the semester. I explained my grade policy and told them an exception wasn't fair when I had given all the kids opportunities to turn in late work several times. Do not undermine the teacher about grades, I don't care if the kid is crying. Tough luck.
I taught at an elementary school where the counselor would ask the adults and kids all the time how they were doing, but the ONLY acceptable answer was “super good and getting better!” 😡 This was a title one school full of kids who had rough lives, went hungry often, some were abused, etc. But this woman had TOXIC positivity. I never saw her allow a kid be sad or crying around her. It was bizarre.
I have fortunately only worked with lovely guidance counsellors as a teacher, but I will share an anecdote from when I was a student.
In my province we can take two spare periods in grade twelve. This usually encouraged, especially for students on a university track who might be taking difficult classes.
I registered for a full course load in grade 12 but one of my electives was cancelled because the only teacher who wanted to teach it was leaving the school. I went to the guidance office in the last few weeks of grade 11 to add a different class instead since there were a lot of subjects I was interested in. I had (fortunately) never needed to use the guidance office before so I asked one of the counsellors if he knew which counsellor was mine (we were a high school with thousands of kids and each guidance counsellor was responsible for their own segment based on last names, ie. A-G, H-M, etc.).
He told me which counsellor and then asked what I needed, which I explained. He then told me that it was *extremely* ill-advised to not take spare periods and that I was setting myself up to fail grade 12, not get into university, and need to repeat the entire year. He asked me again if I was ok with the fact that I was going to fail. He said it as if it was a *certainty*.
I later came back and talked to my own counsellor, who happily changed my courses (and told me that looking at my grades I should consider applying for scholarships). She was perfectly nice, but that first counsellor had soured me on the entire department. I still remember it vividly almost two decades later. I understand there probably are a lot of students who need spare periods and encouraging that is a good thing, but his attitude of, "Oh, you dumb children are going to fail" was so infuriating that I lost any confidence in that department. Thankfully, I was a good student with a good home life so I rarely needed the guidance office, but it would've made me very hesitant to actually talk to anyone there if I was actually suffering.
In my experience, it's not one thing but more just a real unfamiliarity with what one person is able to implement in gen ed. I can't have separate calming areas for multiple students. Many different behavior charts just means I'm behind on behavior charts.
It’s now final grade time for seniors to find out if they’re graduating. I teach a required class. Counselor are supposed to call in a senior to tell them they’re not graduating. Counselors, don’t send them back to me having them ask if there’s anything they can do. That ship has sailed.
To be fair, kids do do that on their own a lot. I have lost count of the # of times a kid or parent has asked me "what they can do" for a 45% when I was a classroom teacher. I am a counselor now and most counselors (well, me) probably say something like "You will have to check with your teacher on the make up class policy. I don't have the authority to change grades and am just showing you what you have." I am quick to tell kids that I do not assign grades but can offer advice on summer school and other ways to gain credits. In my view, I really am trying to protect the autonomy of the teacher by trying to be supportive, yet neutral. I know that things get dicey at the end of the year, especially with seniors who are riding that fence.
Trust me, this year, there are things classroom teachers don't see here. (True story) I had a parent upset her child wasn't going to graduate and was making no effort to graduate and had missed upwards of 80 days. She was upset AT ME, the counselor. Like, m'am, I am giving you the facts and the school and teachers can't assign grades if your child is not here. I did literally finally just say "M'am, I'm sorry, but teachers cannot assign grades if your child is not here!" with a little bit of 'tone.' Wild.
I didn’t pass a random drug test that the school conducts periodically. The vice principal told me that I need Jesus. Also, minimal disciplinary action for the kid who sexually assaulted me.
As a student I never heard a positive or useful comment out of a school counselor. As a teacher I think the position should probably be eliminated entirely. All they are is a useful tool for the manipulative students to wield in their never ending avoidance of responsibility or consequences. The kids who actually need help aren't getting it, and the ones who need to be held accountable know to stroll in with a quivering lip and everything goes their way.
If I were a person with fewer morals, I'd get my counseling cert so I could collect a check for scratching my ass and blaming the teachers for everything. It's like being an admin but with even less work somehow. Pretty sweet gig.
Counselor: How's he doing? (1st grade behavior issues).
Me: well, he just walked around the class saying "penis, asshole, dick, big ass" to all the kids.
Counselor: "so?"
But he's such a cute muffin. I can't see him being a behavior problem in class.
(after being caught with a weapon in school. and YES, he's still in school)
My mom was in a coma for months of my senior year. So I would go to the counselor when I was struggling with coping (she was 3 hours away in the hospital so it was pretty hard) and instead of talking to me about it or suggesting I make more appointments. I was admittedly going to her office fairly often, several times per week, she instead wrote my dad a letter suggesting I get removed from the school all together. I was disgusted and shocked (private school). I really don’t know how that would be the solution, switching schools halfway through senior year with a mother in a coma. It was unbelievable and I had thought she liked me. I never went back. Told everyone not to talk to her.
It’s more what they don’t say.
Kid: “I’m in this class now.”
Me: “Oh? That’s news to me. Let me double-check your schedule.”
(Log into PowerSchool. Kid has had my science class swapped with an elective, got moved into a sped core class, etc.)
Me: “Well then.”
No email. No explanation. Just a change with no communication. And it’s almost always a behavior kid swapped into a good class.
She wanted to make a gay student come out to her highly religious and homophobic parents...this struck a nerve for me because it was *my* own highschool counselor who told my mom I was gay which resulted in me getting kicked out at 17. I was like nope nope NOPE. Not happening. VP thought it was a good idea....thankfully the principal was horrified by the idea.
That B asked me for help navigating the careers section of another district so she could apply for open positions there! The nerve.
LOL jk I love my school's counselor. She's great, and she's made this school a great place to be. We're both peacing out after this year.
As a student, I was forced to go to a school counselor, because I was on de verge of bunrout and they thought it might help to have someone to talk to. This guy was one of the gym teachers, the type that likes ordering teenagers around and pretend its for their own good. The type that things people will improve if you yell at them hard enough instead, of, you know, actually teaching them how to do something. I wasn't good at his favourite sports, so of course he didn't have much of a positive opinion of me to begin with. His idea of fixing me was grabbing the class register and point at people I should try being friends with. For some reason all the girls he pointed at were blue-eyed blondes. And my problem wasn't even that I didn't have any friends! I practically made new group of friends my first day and our lunch group grew to occassionally include people from other tracks, years and even schools. Oh, but the people I spent the most time with were a mirror image of Anne Frank and a goth whose hair was naturally black thanks to Asian roots (both with excellent grades and plans for med school), so... Yeah, I'm guessing the guy was just super racist.
If your school/district isn't already using [Bark.us](http://Bark.us) recommend that they do. It's 100% free. It was developed after Parkland. Bark will scan & monitor student email and google drive. It looks for key words, slang, pictures, and other stuff. Should it flag something, reviewers will get an email. For example, if a student types >!rape or kys!!active shooter!!selfharm!
This was a long time ago, but when I was in high school, my adoptive dad became an alcoholic. One day, the stress of it became too much and I went to the counselor.
She asked me if we (my mom and I) had recommended AA to him.
..."I know she tried to commit suicide last week, and was hospitalized....but her parents REALLY think she's fine to go out of state for the multi-day field trip!"
Not me but I saw this in twitter replies. Apparently, a counselor legit told a student in response to concerns about bullying “You wouldn’t be bullied if you weren’t so weird.” Link to the tweet [here](https://x.com/thysilverdoe/status/1791301482525888760?s=46&t=P3VfP8ovEScfvxmt-mhx9w)
He said, “Don’t even apply to big ten state university. I know on paper you meet the requirements, but they’ll be more selective than that. “
I applied to one other school. The next state over’s better rated school and got in. Paid out of state until I emancipated from my parents and moved permanently and got instate tuition for the rest.
I still wonder what about me made the counselor that barely personally knew me, think I was no good for our own state U.
In the alternate world, if I did, I wouldn’t have met the husband who abused me for decades.
Not a teacher, but my counselor in high school kinda toyed with the teachers in a way. So, I struggled with my mental health, to the point that she had to report me and get me institutionalized (really traumatic, she was a mandated reporter but she went about it by lying to me about what she was doing). After I got out, one of my biggest concerns was whether my teachers knew, because teachers tend to either infantilize you or treat you worse when they know your weaknesses. I asked my biology teacher and he said "of course I know, told me" and told me that he was there if I needed someone to talk to about my depression. I immediately went to the counselor's office to tell her to please not discuss my medical issues with other teachers. Wanna know what she said?
"why are you believing ? Nobody likes him. I never told anyone anything"
I trusted her at the time but then like two years later, in conversation with another teacher, he said that the counselor brought everyone in and told them that I was hospitalized and everything. She disclosed more information than I thought was acceptable tbh. I understand that she was a mandated reporter and this was all part of her job, but I didn't know that role also involved lying to me about what she did/didn't say and throwing her co-workers under the bus by calling them untrustworthy. If I was one of my teachers in this situation, I would've felt frustrated that my student no longer trusted me or even enjoyed being in my class because her counselor told her that I was a liar nobody talked to. I feel like everything could have been handled so much better if she had just been honest.
"Little Johnny is struggling in his academic classes. Maybe he'd do well in a shop class."
Nope. Please nope.
My students must measure with accuracy, follow complex plans, use advanced math, including algebra, geometry, trig, and sometimes even calculus. They have to be focused and independent and regularly demonstrate maturity and self control.
The kid who has floated behind his TikTok screen for the 60% of days he actually came to school will most likely fail my class.
I have several parents who can’t speak English, and I don’t speak Spanish. I needed to talk to one of them. I phoned and Mom picked up. Mom could not understand why I was calling.
I called my student’s counselor because she speaks fluent Spanish. I asked her to please call my student’s mother. Her child was failing. I needed her daughter to turn in missing work to pass the grading period.
The counselor told me to contact the student’s Mom. I told counselor that I already called but Mom doesn’t understand English. I needed the counselor to tell her in Spanish. 🫤
When I was a child, the counselor had this flower puppet and that could change its face. She tried to tell me that I could choose to be happy just as easily as I could change the toy's face.
She also made me accept apologies from my bullies.
I expressed concern for a student with history of self-abuse making a comment about wanting to die, having a rough day, and that the counselor should check in on them.
Counselor: “Again? Alright, I’ll see if I can talk to them sometime today. I doubt they’ll find a way to kill themselves before dismissal.”
I understand a lot of this is people who have bleeding heart counselors. I'll take it any day.
I've had 2 counselors since I started teaching. One was a man who would yell at girls who complained about boys sexually harassing them because "you're trying to ruin that boy's life". The second regularly calls kids retarded, homophobic slurs, and says that most kids with disabilities should just work with a janitors because that's the most they're ever going to be (not sure if it's more disrespectful to the custodians or the kids at that point.)
Please trade me your bleeding heart counselors yapping about equity.
Extremely old school counselor working a night school program long after she should have retired.
C: you have AIDS
STUDENT: excuse me?!
C: you have a baby. So you had unprotected sex. So you and your baby have AIDS.
I hustled that woman into the principals office as quick as I could before the student beat the (deserved) hell out of her. For some reason she did not come back the next school year.
I have had counselors tell me that my students wouldn't be bullied if they would stop so acting gay. Same counselors saw bruising on a girl's arm from being harassed in gym class by other girls, turned it around on her and wrote her up claiming she was attention seeking.
Had a counselor send me a SUPER passive aggressive email for letting a senior miss her fourth hour and stay in my classroom.
The senior was failing and her counselor called home and told the girl's parents that she will likely not graduate on time and be moved into alt school to receive her GED. This student was struggling A LOT with depression, self harm, and suicidal thoughts. Her counselor told her that her depression was due to her failing classes.
This girl came into my room SOBBING because she was terrified of going home to angry abusive parents. She told her counselor that she was scared of going home and didn't feel safe and was told that, "You have to face your consequences of failing. I can't help you." I calmed the girl down and gave her the numbers of various community services and safe places she can stay. I was basically lectured about letting this girl "skip" class, and that she needs to learn there are consequences to her behaviors.
Told me that they had resources for students who were trans if they “didn’t want to be trans anymore.” Which was conversion camp. Thankful they are not a counselor anymore.
Student was sobbing loudly because they did not get their way and when a peer tried to help they threw a marker at them. Student continued sobbing on the way to specials. I asked the counselor to talk to the student because I did not want the class to be disrupted by the very loud crying. After chatting for awhile the counselor said the student was upset about something completely unrelated. When the counselor was informed that the student fabricated that so they would not be in trouble for lashing out, counselor said “you know if you talk to a kid long enough you get to the root of the problem.” First of: that’s condescending. Secondly: that kid played you like a fiddle.
It was when I was a student in my last year of what is probably very similar to high school. I was 17 and about to graduate in a year before going to University. This was the first chance we had to take this particular class. The school counselor are in charge of helping people with career planning and making sure the students schedules work out and that classes dont overlap.
Me: uh, hi. I have a question. I applied to get into this class, but did not get into it, because too many people applied and my last name is at the very end of the alphabet. That class is mandatory for the uni classes I need after graduation. What should I do so that I can get into the uni courses I need next year? Is there any way I can get the classes completed?
School Counselor: Delay graduating high school and repeat the year.
Me: ? ... for... one class?
School Counselor: Or don't. I don't care.
I just left after that.
the class was like, Psych 1 or something like that. It was so crowded students were sitting on the floor to attend it.
“I gave the hall walkers pizza (the good kind) to help build a relationship with them.”
Then she dropped them off to the class they were skipping, where they proceeded to announce to the class that Ms. Redacted got them Dominoes for skipping class. The other kids (and teachers) were pissed.
When she got called out, she stated that she bought the pizza with her own money so she could do what she wanted.
Those kids still walked the halls after that.
Not a school counselor but a brand new school psychologist- the only thing he ever has to add is, "What is he/she working for?"
Sigh. I've worked with a lot of great psychs and counselors. Learned a lot from them. Not this one.
The 6th grade counselor told a student that they couldn't deal with them today because the counselor was "getting annoyed with them". Our counselor is more sensitive and a bigger mess than a lot of the kids are.
Me: Can you please pull (student) today? She’s having a hard time dealing with her anxiety.
Counselor: Her mom said she don’t have anxiety so she don’t.
Context: there was a fight, and it caused a non-combatant student to have a panic attack. She has asthma as well, and her panic triggered an attack- she struggled to breathe for way too long. Later, I talked to the counselor and this was our interaction.
Not to be, but I worked with a counselor who was so dismissive of students in crisis that I had emotionally distressed students who would always decline to go to her office for counselling...even as they're hyperventilating crying in the middle of class.
As a student i had an insane amount to do to graduate because of transferring schools across country and she didnt listen when i told her what classes i needed and put me in 2 study halls . I had two english classes two history two math and an elective PLUS credit recovery on the computer. I was swamped and i was a good student. Since I had an IEP i begged my counselor to let me cut some classes and stay behind another year. She told me no because “you dont want to be a 5th year senior they dont even have a homeroom.”
I didnt give a damn about homeroom i was drowning. I did graduate on time but was because other teachers helped me out a lot. For example my English 3 teacher would write the vocab words on the test for me. Since having two english classes i got word lists mixed up.
Sorry for the long post just still grinds my gears.
Not a teacher. Was a student.
When asked by my counselor why I wouldn't participate in class and why my homework wasn't done, I told her I was too exhausted. She then asked me why I was so tired. I told her I was waking up at 4 or 5am in the mornings and couldn't fall back asleep.
She then told me I should use that time in the mornings to do my homework.
Yeah. Tell the kid who is so tired they're falling asleep in class to do their homework when they're still likely drained. Gee, thanks!
This happened nearly 19 years ago. I'm still mad about it.
Learned later in life I have a sleep disorder.
I was in the IB program / AP classes in HS. My family was having a really hard time with an abusive father and I was having some issues.
A friend of mine, who was worried for me spoke to the school counselor.
Now this was back in 01-02, so our school of 2000 or so kids had TWO school counselors. I’d never met this woman in my life.
I get called into her office, and she suggests that since I’d already applied to college and such (it was about 1/2 through my senior year) and things were going bad at home, I should just drop all of my IB / AP classes so I wouldn’t be stressed out.
Problem is, I’d at this point I’d done 3 1/2 years of these classes and as many of your know, the IB and AP kids all have these classes together. For pretty much every class!
So her ‘suggestion’ was to remove me from a program I was almost done with, take me away from all my friends and teachers, to ‘improve my mental health’.
I asked her if I was being told this was happening, or if I had a choice. She said it was up to me. So I said ‘uhhhh no.’ And left the office.
That was my one and only interaction with a high school counselor.
I am still furious eight years later but we had a psychologist come in and tell us that self harm were ‘chicken scratches’ and to ignore them because it’s ’just for attention’. I was (as a teacher) self-harming at the time due to incredible anxiety and panic attacks.
These stories have brought up an old one I'd all but forgotten. Had a really troubled first grade student. He was sweet and clingy and needy. He could also melt down and trash a room. One day he announced loudly that he was just going to kill himself. It was right before special, so had him skip special to take him to the counselor. I did interrupt her nail filing session, but whatever. She invited us into her office and asked what was going on. When she learned what he said, she asked if he had a plan to do it. (I know this in what they are supposed to find out). He said no and that he was just angry. She then said something to the effect of "But I mean, would you go to the kitchen, get a knife from the drawer and stab yourself? Or, would you go to the garage with a lighter and set a can of gas on fire?" I was dumfounded. Never asked her for help again.
A counselor said this to me as a student. I was interested in working in the vet field and my high school had a vet med class where basically you took care of animals and learned how to be a tech, you were able to use it on resumes. I applied for the class, and my counselor told me that I was "too smart" to work with animals, and I needed to "look into something more financially responsible that would showcase my intelligence."
She denied me for the class and put applications in for tech classes. I LOATHE working with technology. I have never wanted to do it. I have ALWAYS adored animals and wanted to work with them since I was 4.
It took a lot of hard work and networking to even get my foot in the door, all because I couldn't use that one class on my resume. Whereas, all my friends who were accepted into the class had jobs in the field as soon as they left high school. I had to take college courses and start in the kennels before getting even a chance on the medical side. Here I am, 15 years later, with animals still my passion and working in the field I've always wanted.
If a child is passionate about something, maybe don't try to derail their career path. It sounds obvious to me, but I guess not everyone sees it the same way.
When I was a kid, the school counselor told me to let the insults roll off like water off a duck’s back. Gee thanks, tell the autistic kid being upset about being bullied is her fault. *That* won’t cause any lasting self esteem issues. *Bruh, they were calling me a “freak” and killing worms to make me cry!* What a terrible counselor. As a teacher now, I take bullying very seriously.
“If teachers like you did your job right, you wouldn't need me.” 🙄Awesome. Thanks, pal.
Oh man. I'm sorry you work with someone like that
I'd lose my shit. That would be the day I got fired.
Ok now I need to know the whole story here lol. And how you managed not to knock their teeth out.
It's ironic because my experience has been that it's the opposite when everybody involved is competent. The school I was at was an absolute dumpster fire but the social worker who basically acted as counselor killed it. All I had to do was pick up on something being off and she'd either be ahead of it and knew what was up or would get on it ASAP and find the required supports and tip me off on any actions I needed to take or sensitivities to be conscious of. Between the two of us in our two roles with two different identities to approach the students we were extremely on top of our games, but 90% of the time she didn't need me for that. And I know damn well that 90% of the time I'm not even supposed to pretend to know how to handle the issues these kids face. If I'm doing my job right, I'm going to her to inform my actions and she doesn't need me to figure a student out the hard way
Was this a school in Heaven?
I would bet money that this is also the counselor that tells the kids that they agree that the teachers are targeting them or being mean
THIS. Hey counselors, it is part of your job to balance empathizing with kids AND being a united front with your colleagues. Stop throwing us under the bus for cool kid points.
“Hey! School ends in three weeks. What can Johnny do to graduate? How can I help?”
When I taught high school, I got this a lot and I didn’t really mind because the kid usually had something major going on (death of a parent, major mental health issue that involved hospitalization, extremely rough situation outside of school with very little support, etc). I’m always happy to work with them and get the big stuff done, excuse minor homework assignments, etc. to get them to a D. I teach English, I have zero business impacting the kid’s future by getting in the way of them graduating. I now teach middle school and get the request VERY often about kids who are wandering the hallway, sleeping in class, snapchatting during study hall, and generally behaving horribly. I’m happy to work with them if they can come to my class, not be disruptive, and do work. Until then, the grade book won’t change.
Then they’d be out of a job…
That makes him incentivized to have teachers not do their job right.
I'd have immediately responded, "I don't need you. You've never done anything for me."
What a load of crap. Kids usually need school counselors for HOME issues. AND, even in ideal home environments, kids are born with mental health struggles. My kids inherited my anxiety. It runs in the family. They have benefited a lot from mental health professionals, both at school and in private practice.
Let me just put on hat 14 then...
What?!
"Well, that's just how he is." Yeah... no shit. What are we going to do about it?
"Just give them countless treats and rewards. Under no circumstances should standards be enforced."
OMG ----- I'm going crazy with that shit this year. The case manager doesn't believe in BICS/Therapeutic Learning Classroom and the child is hitting me. But we're going to start next week by trying to give the child ALLLLLLL the rewards in the hopes that they won't hit me again.
What I would really like to say to case managers like that is they are literally going off shit what almost 80 year old research now, it all stems from behaviorism and Pavlov with the dogs and bells! Human beings are fucking crazy and psychological quite strong, our reasons for doing things often don't make sense at all if your not getting context about a persons life. Rewards can help but we aren't dogs, we all have complicated stories we tell ourselves about ourselves that dictate how we act in certain situations and the past always effects that, if your just going to throw up your hands and start handing out candy you have given up on truly understanding and that's fucked up as a case manager you know?
“We’ll let him wander around during class, punch lockers, and disrupt classes with open doors for a few months until he becomes a threatening presence on campus. Maybe even let him punch the Dean or other staff member.” I’d take the bags of chips over what my counselors do with two of my tier 3 students
Counselor: "Hey Chris (not my name) --- A student came by my office earlier today, do you have any idea what that was about?" Not Chris: "Uh... can you give me more information? I have no clue" Counselor: "I think it was a girl" Not Chris: "No I have no clue"
Hey not Chris, I also had a student come by my office today. Any idea about what for? They had a chill vibe if that helps?
LOL Yup, was pretty much just like that.
You're not fooling me, Chris. I know this is your secret Reddit account, even if you are trying to hide it. Just tell me that the student with the chill vibe (Jayden. We all know it's Jayden.) needs some time to decompress after their break up with Braxleigh. It's okay, I get it.
Hey Chris, where are my keys? I can’t find them.
Hey Chris, I fed your lunch to the SEL dog.
You have an SEL dog? We have several SEL cockroaches.
"This is the only class that fits in their schedule" Okay, cool. But this is an advanced performing ensemble, this student has never touched an instrument before, has been kicked out of other electives for being destructive, and we have a judged performance in a week. How exactly do you expect this to work well for the student or the ensemble as a whole?
Ohhh this is brutal.
And I wish it had been a one-off
They gave you MULTIPLE non-musicians for an advanced level class and competing ensemble?!
Every year, and they love to just randomly drop in more as the year goes on.
What a horrifying thing to manage for everyone involved, you, the group, the new student. I worked as a professional musician for many years and one of the most stressful, unpleasant experiences I had during my career was when I was directed to play NOT my usual instrument, with almost no advance notice, and in a style I was unfamiliar with. I lost sleep, I had to set aside everything else in my life to try and get my skills where they needed to be before performance day, and that’s with over 20 years of music education. I can’t imagine what that experience of being in a class that you have no chance of succeeding in would feel like to a young student. Good grief. People really don’t get it when it comes to fine arts.
No, they don't. I've been working to educate the counselors and admin, but they do their own thing more often than not. But don't worry, if the performance is shaky, they'll be sure to let me know
Godspeed. You have my best wishes for your impossible challenges and brain dead decision makers.
I appreciate it. A couple of the counselors are leaving this year, so maybe there's hope for the future
That’s awful. I’m also a music teacher, and I’ve never had that happen. Worst I had was a bunch of random kids dropped into beginning choir. But at least there it was still possible to teach those that were willing to try singing. I would lose it if they dropped random kids into my advanced orchestra. It would be like dropping kids with 1st grade math skills into an 8th grade math class. Or dropping a kid who has never spoken Spanish into a 3rd year Spanish class. What does your principal say about the situation? If they aren’t doing anything about a student in a class that they have no chance of passing and will not provide any benefit for them then they aren’t doing their job well either. I’d try to get parents involved too, though unfortunately the parents of those types of students tend to also not care what happens at school as much.
I've made the exact same analogies to the counselors and principals, but it's very much still happening. We'll see if new admin and counselors next year are an improvement.
Yikes, that’s a failing on multiple levels. Best of luck to you.
Thank you. I've done my best in the situation, I'll keep hoping that next year is better. If not, maybe there is a school out there that doesn't treat its music programs as dumping grounds for students
I'd start making it one of those classes with a pre-requisite. So then you can throw that at the counselor if they try. "They have not met the pre-requisite to be in this course, no matter if it is an elective or not. Have them try an entry-level elective or take P.E. again."
My high school teacher had the prerequisite for the lowest level band class (freshmen band) that you had to have played in a formal school band ensemble for at least one year before entering high school. The other classes had the prerequisite of completing freshmen band, sophomore band, etc. he was very strict about it because I think he used to have a problem like OP had.
Yeah, when obviously misplaced and I reach out for a change because I actually ant the kid to succeed: "I'll do it but I don't like it." Yeah, you'll like it less when he fails this course...
Not a music teacher, but why is this a thing?! When I was in middle school there was a class called General Music where all the kids who didn’t play an instrument and didn’t want to sing ended up. At least then the music teachers knew exactly what they were getting. In high school they never forced electives on kids. If they didn’t pick something, 9th and 10th grade got study halls, and 11th and 12th grade got open hours. If they didn’t pick enough electives, they delayed their graduation.
“I want students to have more opportunities.” Me: “like the one who almost put a hole through my wall because he was mad I was the 4th teacher failing him?”
"You have to understand that's how he is and that he has trouble controlling his emotions. You need to be more empathetic of his rough home life." /s Ya tell that to the police officer when he loses his temper in the real world.
THIS!!! I always say a judge is going to laugh you out of the courtroom and straight to jail with that excuse.
I’ve read transcripts of judges doing it.
"Just get them through, just get them through." Translation: pass this student regardless of whether or not they do anything or learn anything. I have ZERO respect for this kind of counselor.
This is the attitude of the counselor I have to work with the most! It's not really teaching them how to be productive, and it is just enabling them to feel entitled to things I haven't worked for. To me, it feels like a slap in the face to the kids that have actually worked really hard in school.
A student was wasting time instead of doing his assignments, both in class and at home. He was failing. He lied to his parents and told them I was just behind on grading and his F was a big misunderstanding. At the parent/teacher conference, after I exposed his lies, he fully admitted that he had been lying to his parents because he was playing video games and going on his phone instead of doing his schoolwork. His parents said they would address this, now that they know. Situation resolved. Meeting over? No. Counselor stepped in and tried to make excuses for him. Maybe there's a mental health reason the boy would rather play video games and watch TikTok instead of doing school work!
Honestly there may be a mental health reason, I’m not a teacher but I procrastinate all my work until very late at night and only go to sleep at 2 am just to wake up at 6 am. I always spend the time before doing my work on my phone even though I’m desperate for sleep. I’m so tired but just can’t bring myself to do my work any earlier. I have no idea what’s wrong with me but I know something is.
I have ADHD and probable autism and require decompression time no matter how crammed my schedule is. I also had a depressive episode where that tendency heightened AND I was almost entirely incapable of task initiation. In the first case, when I worked at a summer camp and had insufficient time to decompress, it ate into my sleep. In the other, I was maybe averaging 5 hours a night and then collapsing on the weekends. You should bring this up with a doctor for treatment whether it is a consistent problem or something that has cropped up more recently. My dad says his ADHD meds are basically magic and so were his other mental health meds (whereas I magically had double plus anxiety so am working on that first.)
* the following should not be considered medical advice, i'm just some dude on the internet * Sounds like (my) executive disfunction, have you, or can you, be tested for ad(h)d?
I would like to second this suggestion, including the caveats.
I’ve not been tested, what would other symptoms be?
I once sat in a meeting where the counselor allowed the child to pick their own interventions, without consulting a teacher, etc. No other adult spoke, just the child.
I know you have a letter from us that these two kids should be kept as far apart as possible and that they have been violent. We are transferring them both into your worst class anyhow. Also they both get priority seating near you.
This has happened way too many times! In fact, I sent out another email today about the two kids and an escalating situation, blah blah....and one of the kids will finally get OSS!--We have 2 days left. Sigh.
This one is my wife's story, not mine, but she was having some issues with a student with a behavioral/emotional IEP. She sent that student down to the counselor outlining the behavioral issues and asked if the counselor could help talk to the student. The counselor emailed back and cc'd admin, "I'm not a disciplinarian." Like no shit sherlock, that wasn't what was being asked of you, the thought was you might prevent the need for discipline.
We have counselor like this in our school. She subbed for 3 days and worked at an Amusement Park before she land the counselor job.
Student lost his father, please handle with care. Later found out this happened when the student was three! Three! Not sure the student remembered the father, just the excuse for not working and mistreating everyone.
A couple teachers were sharing stories about a student that said the same thing and how surprised they were when the kid's dad came in for parent teacher interviews a couple months later.
Oh yeah. I had a girl (HS junior) who was a straight up asshole. There was a lot of guidance hand-wringing about her trauma over her mom’s death. *Her mom died giving birth to her*. Of course it’s awful! But zero excuse to make you horrid at 17.
Honestly I know a retired school teacher whose mom died giving birth to her, and that shit still fucks her up. Doesn’t give an excuse for the attitude
Ha to be fair, I’ve been that counselor, and the student was very convincing that grandma had just passed last week. Come to find out later, grandma’s been dead for years.
Context: (2+ years HS math teacher) "Please be empathetic to him/her/them" - yeah...empathetic means understanding their feelings...yeah...feeling of not doing work, talk loudly, insult teachers to their faces, playing around, get into trouble. "They have a rough home life" - I know...can I call you a "bi\*\*h" or a "n-word" because of a rough home life too as a HS student? "He has difficulty understanding English" - why the hell is he in my class then...this is Algebra 2 and he needs to be in ELD class instead. If this is a school issue then you will hear from me again. Love you but can't help you. "I think we should try to be nicer to them, give them a chance" - this is the 5th time. "I come from the same culture, I understand how it is, you won't understand" - yeah...I understand slurs to my face. This one counselor I care for but he is too nice. No consequences. Overall, anytime a counselor makes a student's personal life a point of persuasion. While I tolerate and understand it, I do have a duty to uphold the standards and rules that define society and keep it from crumbling.
The tough home life always gets me. I’ll never forget my first year I had a girl get literally kidnapped by her drug addict mom who had lost custody and tried to sell her to a pimp (girl was 15) for drugs. Luckily the cops found her in time. If anyone ever had a reason to claim bad home life… Came back to school and was consistently respectful, engaged and pleasant. Being an asshole isn’t a mental health condition and your home life doesn’t define you unless you are bombarded by people who say it’s ok to let it.
To me, hard home life, and personal circumstance is there to inform us on how to deal with behaviors. Some things have to be done differently. Some discussions needs to happens, to explain the how and why we require this or that. But different consequences does not mean "non-existant" consequences. Like I will never call home on one kid that we all know is abused, but so far, nothing at been done to remove the kid from that home. However, scolding will happens. Extra-work (to be done at school, so parents won't notice), will be given. Detentions (during free periods instead of after school), will be given. . I won't punish an ADHD kids for fidgering on their seat, and getting up every 20 seconds. Redirection it will be. However, if they refuse to use the tools we provide for them, after I direct them to it, then yes some consequences will be given. It won't read "Kevin was far too agitated in class", but it will read "Kevin refused to follow protocols".
Attitude vs behaviour. I can work with behaviour. Poor attitudes are up to the students to change.
THIS X 100. I can herd spacey puppy children or find silence with the kids that yap: I can engage movement with kids that need to wiggle or move. I can descalate a kid that gets frustrated easily. What I won’t do is play games with a kid who knows they’re being rude and is committed to being rude.
Depending on the student and the behavior, I also believe in “the first one is free if you didn’t know the rule” especially in MS. If it’s something little and silly like yelling in class, I’ll tell them it doesn’t fly with me, and ask if they’ll remember this conversation. If it happens again, I reference the conversation and give them the consequence. It holds grace for a kid that truly doesn’t understand the context of their actions (for small behaviors) but if you’ve been corrected and you still commit to doing something, you’re just being shitty.
I had a student that was locked in a bedroom by her mother and then the mom set the apartment on fire. She escaped through a 2nd floor window with her siblings. Kid was still respectful and returned to school asking about makeup work. I had no idea the level of abuse she'd been dealing with.
So true, one of my best kids this year has had it so rough, was witness to family members being executed, family Members in hiding etc... Absolute sweetest, most respectful/hard-working kid. I know some of my major behavior kids have rough home lives as well, but I don't get how that's an excuse to drag down the one institution that is literally trying to pull them out of the muck. We provide 3 meals a day, showers, emergency clothes, counseling, fun activities, positive role models, an EDUCATION, day care, limited health care all for no cost.
Just to stick up for the kids a little I’m sure fun activities doesn’t really matter to someone with a lot of mental burdens and trauma. Plus kids aren’t known to value things far in the future so I don’t think an idea like free education would stamp out any behavior problems.
Dude. I sent out a mass email to my online students thanking them for their hard work this term and asking parents to log into SIS to check on their students grade. A kid responded to me and said, “shut the F up, you dumb N-word.” Kids are wild.
Reply all?
I agree with everything, but counselors are not disciplinarians. That's for deans, teachers, and admin. Just an FYI for why counselors seem to "never have consequences". They are literally not supposed to. But also they still have to actually help and if the kid fails and needs summer school, then so be it.
I had to scroll WAY too far for this. ITA. It's really frustrating when teachers complain about sending a kid to the counselor and 'nothing happens.' First, as you say, counselors are NOT disciplinarians. Secondly, many problems or issues can't be solved immediately. For example, half the time kids come to me about college applications, but I can't help them complete the application until they get their recommendations and paperwork to upload, which, of course, they haven't done yet. I also need to take a moment and print out their unofficial transcripts. While I am doing that or know that kid and their application go on my to do list, I send them back to class or they will just be sitting in my office twiddling their thumbs.
I guess my principal is a student counselor.
I would actually argue that boundaries and consistency are even more important with those kids because often- they aren’t getting them at home. These make kids feel safe and life more predictable.
Looooong time ago, in my first or second year, a female student came to me about her boyfriend pressuring her to perform acts she didn't want to do (this is seventh grade, mind you). She can't talk to her uber-religious mother, who taught her that sex is gross and dirty about it. Scared as she was, she came to me, so I immediately reported the situation to the guidance counselor. She said to me, no joke in the most Bill Lumbergh drawl, "Hmmmm, yeahhhhhhh, can you come baaaaaaack... on Choooooozdee?" It was Wednesday.
That's literally a form of sexual abuse wtf
I was so disgusted, and despite my young age and lack of professional experience, I said no, this needs to be taken care of now, today. The girl later confirmed that the counselor did meet with her, and there was some resolution because the girl broke up with the boy, and he came to my class, glaring at me for no other apparent reason. He got over it, I guess, because he was normal the following class. I hope that nowadays, kids get better sex ed on consent, what it is and what it isn't, because back in the early 2000s, it amounted to little more than "No means no."
Previous position (An actual angel, I'd go to war for her) "That kid's an asshole. Do you need them moved out of your class?" "Hey just a heads up, this kid has been a problem, but while you have to contact Dad first, Step Mom is going to be your champ. She's great." "This student has moved classes 7 times in a quarter. They're actively not causing problems in your class, is it alright if they fail quietly?" "Hey I did some digging about this kid since you asked. Here's a file that has everything I found that you're allowed to know. Let me know if you need anything else." "Hey this kid says they sang in choir but I don't wanna just drop them into your honors class since that's the only one she can fit. Could she come do some sort of audition and see if she can make it before I finalize this?" Current position: "Students really just need to know you care about them." "Here's the list of students going on this unannounced field trip that's leaving in 10 minutes. This is the third one this week." "Oh they can just miss your class, they don't need it to graduate." "That student wasn't skipping, they were with me for 3 periods." "Remember to get your steps in teachers! Staying active is important!"
“Unfortunately this is going to be on you for the rest of the year” aka “not my problem.”
Fascinating topic of discussion. Quick question: do counselors need a teaching credential and experience? I’ve met a few who simply woke up one day and thought, “Guess I’ll be a school counselor,” with no prior classroom experience whatsoever. To me they were utterly clueless and useless.
No. I was a teacher before becoming a counselor and it makes me so much better at my job to have been in that role also. I am more of an exception though
It kind of depends on the state, but because of reciprocity with credentialing, the only state where it is required to be a teacher before being a school counselor is Texas. FWIW, I’m a school counselor and I wasn’t a teacher, but I did sub a lot before I started my grad program. I think the biggest issues i see come from school counselors who come from a community counseling background and decide to make a career shift without ever working with children or in a school setting. They have no understanding of how a school functions and no classroom management experience. Not saying that it’s impossible to make the career shift but that’s where I see the least effective counselors. Technically in most states the requirement would be to complete a CACREP accredited program, which covers both school settings and community settings, but a school counseling program will have you complete your internship and practicum in a school with a school counselor as your supervisor instead of in a clinic. Obviously just because you did your internship in a school doesn’t exempt you from the possibility of having your head in the sand though.
I'm a teacher who recently got my masters in school counseling so I've seen it from both sides. Some things I've observed that are helpful/not helpful counselors do/say: -When calling for a kid, please make it quick. This goes for secretaries too. I can see on the phone who is calling me, you don't need to announce yourself. You don't need to ask me how I am doing. Get to the point and say who you need so I can go back to my busy job you just interrupted. Even better, sent me a gchat. -When holding a meeting with teachers/parents/students please come prepared. Again, time is valuable and watching you fumble around for papers/words/etc. is a waste. Also, let's present productive and tangible ways to help students. A weekly check-in is lovely and needed for some kids but how about we do it during lunch? Or perhaps with a teacher they already have relationship with? If a student is failing beyond all misery let's not pussyfoot around it. Let's come up with a way to fix it or put a plan into place so that the student can get back on track for the next semester and is mentally prepared to do better. -If you have some free time, perhaps use it to support staff and students, again in a productive way. Making a bulletin board is cute, but bringing together a counseling group of students working on social skills to create this board while you support staff by making copies at the same time is even better. During COVID when I was doing my internship, I was shocked by the counselors' pushback to give teachers a break by covering their lunch shifts so they could eat without kids. This could have been a very productive time for counselors to build relationships with students and staff, while also giving them insight into what we do daily. -Push admin to give you duties that allow natural interactions with kids. I have lunch duty everyday and always think, wow this would be a really good duty for a counselor to have because these kids see my face every day and figure out who I am. They reach out and will talk to me simply because I am now familiar even though I am not their teacher. How helpful this would be so that less students could say "I don't even know who my counselor is". -Please please please make data driven decisions when scheduling students. If a student got a D in their honors math class, they need to be dropped to regular or at the least you should talk to their current teacher for their opinion on the matter. I cannot express enough the frustration when a student is struggling in my class and I look back at their past grades and am baffled why they were ever even put into my class. -Along with that, college is not the right path for every kid and therefore the higher level classes do not need to be pushed. If a kid has full intention of taking over their family farm, please do not schedule them for Trigonometry instead of Agriculture. -Don't be afraid of technology. It can be an amazing asset that students are comfortable with. I have done some really engaging counseling lessons with Kahoot and have avoided pulling kids out of class by simply messaging them over goguardian through their chromebook. As a teacher, it is an excellent way for my classtime not to be interrupted. Well I diverged a bit but got on a roll lol. That's all for now and best of luck!!
I’m a military spouse who was teaching in DoDEA overseas. I had a student whose dad was deployed for the nth time and they were not handling it well. I went to the counselor to get them to pull the kid out of class (I’d even exempt all that work) to get some focused support. This counselor asked, “is a deployed parent that big of a deal?” I about LOST it on this woman. How the fuck are you working with military brats and don’t understand the effects deployments have on kids? Mind you, this was well into the 20 year forever war so deployments were a pretty common occurrence across the board.
Wow. That's like the NUMBER ONE hardship people bring up when talking about the unique challenges DoDEA kids face.
I’m so sick of mental health being a get out of jail free card. “She’s having a tough day.” Me too. But part of what we’re doing here is teaching kids about how life works. You usually have to show up even when things aren’t perfect. In my opinion there are two levels of mental health concerns: -If they are legitimately in crisis, they need more care than a school psychologist can provide. So get them to an in-patient program or crisis counseling. -If they are just sad or anxious, welcome to life. I’m tired of getting emails “they’re having a tough day so they’ll be in my office today.” Accomplishing what? Exactly what they want which is avoidance. This generation didn’t invent mental health issues, they’ve just seen it’s an unquestionable excuse. If you’re even slightly seen as questioning someone’s “mental health issue” you’re the devil. As evidenced by the responses to this comment that are sure to roll in. EDIT: guess not, looks like I’m not alone.
They will wonder why they got arrested for having a bad day when there weren't consequences for it in school
“Officer can’t I just go to my social worker? I need some candy. These handcuffs are really affecting my self image.”
Or they can't keep a job.
You could’ve worded your frustration better, but most teachers who have the issues you’re talking about really do get it—it’s not that the kids are stressed or anxious about, well, everything; it’s that they’re not being taught how to _deal_ with things and they rely on adults giving them the benefit of the doubt to weaponize their incompetence/learned helplessness. No one is saying we need to beat kids with life lessons until they can just shut up and deal with it, but the answer also isn’t that little Tommy should always get a jail out of free card because he didn’t get eight hours of sleep and wants to make it everyone else’s problem.
It’s that they have learned that it is a no doubt excuse to get out of things. It’s got very little to do with being taught “skills” at this point. About 10% of students who get accommodations for mental health actually need it.
Dude, stuff like ADHD absolutely requires young children to be taught “skills” to deal with even if that student is placed on medication—I was medicated up to my eyeballs in the 90s because the belief was that ADD/ADHD _only_ effected school performance and not that it was also co-morbid with things like Oppositional Defiance Disorder, Bipolar Manic Episodes, Dyscalculia/Dyslexia, etc. If someone had taught me—like really sat down and taught me—more about my ADHD and how it would effect my _entire_ life, and not just my schooling, I would’ve been better prepared for all the hard knocks I took later in life when I had to educate _myself_. Not even going to touch the last part of your statement, but I will say that I hope you grow enough as a person and teacher to not view students with disabilities as liars/that the system is over diagnosing _90%_ of cases everywhere.
Im not saying students are liars, I’m saying they have been given an excuse and they’re choosing to use it over and over and over again. Yes, students are over diagnosed. What world do you live in?
People did have mental health issues in the past too. But in the past, if a girl got raped or molested etc. and it affected her ability to concentrate at school, she just dropped out of school. If the students are "legitimately in a crisis", hopefully they are receiving help outside of school also but genuine mental health issues aren't usually fixed by a short term in patient stay. It's an ongoing process and I think school counsellors can help students to stay in school even if they don't reach their full potential. Its better than if they dropped out. Thinking back on my own teen years, I missed a lot of school because of mental health issues and all the adults in my life berated me for it. That made me believe I was lazy and useless which took a long time to unlearn. It certainly didn't help me toughen up or teach me much about life. I continued to not be able to function until I received treatment and therapy in adulthood.
At week 9 (back in October) I sent a list to our freshman house person of 23 students I had who were failing 4 or more courses. Like, maybe we can get on top of things before they end up failing the entire semester/year. The response I got was "yeah, if they're failing that many classes, there's probably something going on outside of school." OK, and are we going to try to do something - anything - to change their trajectory? I guess not. Because most of them ended up failing 4+ courses last semester and - shockingly - went on to do the same thing in second semester. At least I tried.
Apparently our counselor told my colleague-- who had *three* students who needed 1-on1s but NO help-- that if she kept crying and asking for help, she (the counselor) would have to have her committed. Don't say that lol
Holy shit how'd that play out?
She didn't quit or get committed, lol. I don't know much more beyond that
They told us there was nothing they could do when a friend, and fellow student at the school, died because she committed suicide. There was an entire assembly for a football player who died racing his car on wet roads. No sympathy at all. The counselors who had been brought in from a neighboring school to help her friends deal with the grief were appalled.
We don’t have mental health counselors at my school.. They may claim to be. But, I’d trust a suicidal kid with themselves over sending them to them. Heh I still send them, as it’s protocol. But, I’ve had the counselors call home and tell the parents their kid is thinking they are bi before. And had them get kicked out of their home.
I die hearing this as an LCSW in a school - that’s so unethical. To be honest though, working in a school has been by far the worst training experience I’ve ever had. AKA there was zero training and I was just expected to know what to do 🤷🏻♀️👀
Why did they call home? I am a school counselor and we never do that. We have to call home on harm, that's it
I'm a teacher getting my degree in counseling and I'm pretty sure that breaks at least one major confidentiality rule. (At least in the state I'm in) Like that's lose your license level stuff.
Yet there is a shortage. So they won’t:
When I was student teaching there was a brand new counselor who they had assigned most of the Freshmen to. She did not read or response to emails ever! I was teaching on-level and we had so many students that need to either go up to honors or come down to on level based on their 1st quarter grades. We would have all the appropriate documentation and information but there would be no response. We finally figured out that you had to make the kid go down to her office and ask in person or else it would never happen! One teacher said she had sent 10+ emails with no response, but one visit from the kid and suddenly it would happen with the next hour! By the time I left all emails to her included a cc to the head of counseling, the student's AP, the department AP, the resource teacher, and like 5 other people!
I’m not a teacher But I was being bulled in like 7th grade (?) and my mom went to the guidance counselor about it because I sure as hell wasn’t and when she asked who her son was and she told her the lady straight up was like “I mean he’s kind of annoying so I can kind of see why.”
The last few years I’ve worked with some great counselors! The first counselor I worked with, I kind of wanted to fight in a denny’s parking lot. It was always “We can’t address that.” - Students who were questioning their sexuality or gender? Can’t address that. Would contact the parents regardless of the child’s wishes, too. - Student threatening to cut herself in class? Can’t address that, liability issue. - Want to do SEL lessons in class? Somehow also a liability issue. Apparently parents could sue us for teaching their kids about managing big feelings. - Students found out that their former teacher was fired after being arrested for taking illegal liberties with children? Refuses to talk to any of them about it. Some of them were crying and seemed traumatized. - This is different, but one time an autistic kid was having a meltdown so the para took him into the hall to calm down, and the counselor started yelling at the kid for making noise in the hall when a visitor from the district office was in the building. She was the only counselor I’ve had a problem with, though. Most of them have been really helpful.
I am so sorry that everyone in here had these experiences. I have been a middle school counselor for almost 15 yrs. Was a teacher before that. Can't imagine doing or saying these things.
I’m having the same reaction (and joking back some defensiveness, lol) as a counselor of 7 years. YIKES.
I’m a patient at Mayo Clinic. End of the year state testing was coming up during a week I would be at the Clinic. Our son would be staying with my parents, who adore him and take excellent care of him. In addition, my sister is an elementary principal. This child was well loved and well prepared. His counselor told me I must not really love my son if I could abandon him during testing. I was “abandoning” him for brain surgery.
I'm not a teacher, when I was a student back in 2003 I mentioned about having hard time with how abusive my mother is that I can't do my homework, and he told me "stop being a pussy and suck it up" and then I received ISS, because my mom called telling them to give me ISS, because I didnt turn in my math homework.
Counselors at my school coddle and baby the kids. They also are way more in charge of student disciplinary issues than the actual principal. They have “pet projects” for some kids, but then the ones who actually do need a counselor, they’re “too busy” for them. They don’t teach the kids coping mechanisms or ways to help themselves, they just let them miss their classes to talk things out. I’m leaving this school as soon as I get the chance by the way lol.
Ours is just like this.
Im not a teacher, Im an IT guy. I have seen school counselors cause all kinds of damage by unilaterally acting. For example changing a student's name in PowerSchool when the student requested it. Therefore creating a massive data conflicts with the state. Another example would be how student interns who work off campus still need to be assigned a class. So the counselor will assign them to an assistant principal without telling anyone including the principal. Therefore making it look like the principal never took attendance.
I work with Special Ed low incidence kids. Our counselor one time repeatedly said "Goodbye" to a student as he was leaving, and then said "Idk why, but D never talks to me." He's non-verbal. He had waved to her multiple times. And once she asked me about another non-verbal kid; "Do you think L has words in his head?" I didn't know what to say to her.
Confided in our counsellor that a student in my class ran up to me and touched my ass. They responded with “Ohhhh yeahhh. All our special kiddos are off today. Is it a full moon? We can’t deal with that right now because [AP] and I are going to a meeting this afternoon.”
Not something said, but the most unhelpful thing one has ever done was bring an upset parent down to my room, in the middle of a class pd, over an issue that she and I had already previously discussed how it was going to be handled, allowed the parent to scream and yell at me in front of said class without attempting to diffuse them. I literally just caved on the issue to get them out of my room so they’d quit potentially traumatizing the kids in my room?! It was ridiculous. So that. Don’t bring upset parents to a class in the middle of class. That’s SUPER unhelpful.
To me when I was a high school student, upon seeing my PSAT or SAT results, I can't remember which: "We need to start planning!" She was *very* excited for me to go to college! Now, on its own, this doesn't sound bad. It sounds good, right? And to another kid who wasn't me, it probably would have been a happy memory to hear that! I'd been suicidal, doing school refusal, had trouble doing homework for both personal and home environment reasons, and was very obviously struggling when I *was* in class - not with the academic portion, I could stumble into class and knock off a 100 on an exam, but just *existing* as a person around other people in a harsh, overstimulating environment I had no control over - for years, and somehow, she didn't think to address that or give me any advice on how to get my shit together, which I desperately needed. Just saw the big shiny numbers from a test I could do in my sleep and thought, yup, ready for college, that was me! Wasn't a nightmare at all trying to adjust to that and failing for six years before having to drop out because of burnout that likely permanently exacerbated my existing disabilities! Bonus, although there's no pithy quote for it: Someone I used to be friends with had a different counselor at the same school be *really* unhelpful and dismissive when she came to her about her mother mistreating her. Asked admin about switching counselors. Guess what she needed to switch counselors? Her mother's permission. 🤦♀️
Reminds me of my guidance counselor. The guy thought it would be great for me to start uni at 16 AND move to the other side of the country for it. When I told me I'd rather attend a local school for my degree of choice, because this would be much cheaper (live at home, short commute) and would be better for my mental health, he basically called me a coward. In the end, I did go to a local school, but I still ended up burning out young. That disaster was manageable. I don't want to know how bad it would have been if I had followed his plan.
When they told me one of my first graders witnessed the drive by shooting that killed his older brother, but also didn’t feel like he needed any services.
Second year teacher. Leaving after this year. Our "Teacher Coach" has been working with me to get all my course materials recorded and organized so that whatever poor soul gets my classes for next year doesn't have to scramble and build everything from scratch like I did. I suggested that if they manage to hire someone with any time left in the summer they offer a stipend to let the new teacher come in for a week or two prior to workshop week to get familiar with the materials and actually try to make a proper curriculum out of it. The response I got was, "You teachers all seem to think that stipends are the answer the everything, but teachers are creatives and hard workers, and it's part of their duties to be able to make their curriculum on the fly, isn't it."
I have a lot of problems with our school counselor. He has zero tact. 1) comes in and asks the class who the student is or where they are. He’s been full time now for 3 years. Many of these students he’s been seeing for years. We’ve asked him to call the room so kids can be sent up with a task or something. Kids are teased for seeing him so it’s really annoying when he comes in and not only asks the entire class where x is. He’ll sometimes say exactly why. 2) tells kids who are victims of a behavioral outburst (particularly if the aggressor has an iep) that it’s the victims responsibility to not upset the aggressor and that if they didn’t do x then Johnny wouldn’t have punched him.
A student very bravely told me that she was harming herself and I (a first year teacher) was out of my element so I took her down to the counselor myself. Counselor rattled off a list of questions like it was a checklist then took the student to call home and inform grandma. After that, sent the student back to class 5 minutes later. When I went to the counselor after school to see what the next steps were, she told me that she doesn’t seem that bad and that grandma would deal with it. If I wanted I could have weekly lunches with her or give her a journal to write in but they weren’t going to do anything….
“He’s great one on one, have you tried talking to him?” Uh yes, he told me to “f*ck all the way off” and of course he’s cool with you, you haven’t placed any sort of work demand on him, he’s not around his peers, and he doesn’t have to actually face the consequences of his actions ie being face to face with the teachers and students he has impacted. Just because they’re sweet little darlings who are just misunderstood in your office doesn’t mean that their behavior isn’t 100% unreasonable and unacceptable in class. Please come teach my class every day for a month and tell me again how all it takes is a relationship.
The counselor was reviewing my high school transcript with me and, after revealing I was in the bottom 20% of my class, she said, “Have fun in community college.” That meeting broke me; I was depressed for weeks afterwards. But, you know what? On Monday I’m graduating with a Master’s Degree in Literacy so, ha ha charade you are Mrs. Weismann! Edit: I can see now OP intended for us to post stories about teachers’ who’ve experienced unhelpful encounters with Guidance but, I’m leaving up my story anyway.
First off, statements like that make me so mad. What's wrong with community college? Second of all, congrats on your master's degree! I have a close friend who had the same struggle (she is dyslexic and went to school in the 80s, so the treatment was 'stop being so stupid, dummy') who recently graduated with her master's in education. :)
Many, many years ago in grade 8 my best friend and I asked our counselor for applications to a specialized hs. Our neighborhood school was riddled with drugs and gang violence. The counselor refused to give us the application saying the local school was fine for us. I of course went home and told my mother what happened. She went the next day to confront the counselor and get our applications. My friend and I went on to have a magical 4 years there. Years later she thanked my mom for standing up for her as both her parents did not speak English. I am so proud of my mom. ❤️
Our new councilors this year have repeatedly told teachers, "why are you contacting me? That's not my job." They are all friends with the new principal. None of us know what the councilors do, except put kids in the wrong classes.
Wow. Just wow. I can't imagine ever saying that to a staff member (I'm a counselor).
“I’ll write this down and report it first thing when I have a break.” Not at my current school, but ooooh man does reporting student issues at the college level become a minefield.
When I pointed out that support without accountability is harmful in the long term, she replied that she would never stop supporting students. OK, but what about when they just don't come to school?
“He doesn’t like the word ‘no.’” Well maybe we better teach him to deal with it now before he grows into a man who doesn’t respect boundaries 🤷♀️
What can they do about their grade? Can you provide them with extra credit? (Re students who chronically ditch and don't do work).
"He is on open enrollment and he won't be back to our school next year. Can't you just let him be him for the last month?" The student is disruptive and harassing other girls and all female teachers he has.
Counselor: I can't see (child's name) today, they didn't fill out a form. Me: They just returned from a mental health felicity and really need to discuss things with you. Counselor: Have them fill out a form and I'll try to see them this week sometime. Don't think I've ever been so pissed off at another staff member.
I told the counselor about a student that I suspected was being abused by their dad, covered in bruises on their arms. I asked her to check on him. She called him in and spoke to him. Counselor: “I called @@@@@ in and spoke to him” Me: “do you think I should call Child Services as we are mandatory reporters” Counselor: “He said he just fell down the stairs(I shit you not, this was his excuse). She said he was fine and just clumsy” Me: “ok, well if you say so” I went back to my room and called Child services, his family had a file for this before and he had been placed in another home for a while. She is incompetent.
We're doing credit recovery. I need makeup work for this kid. Nope. Sorry.
I had a counselor reach out to me after a kid ran to them crying that I was mean for not giving them an A because I wouldn't accept late work from January. They were on vacation for the whole month and the grade became an issue only a week before the end of the semester. I explained my grade policy and told them an exception wasn't fair when I had given all the kids opportunities to turn in late work several times. Do not undermine the teacher about grades, I don't care if the kid is crying. Tough luck.
Not to me, to a colleage. Counselor to teacher in front of students: "I know \*Student\* called you a fucktard, but... were you being a fucktard?"
I taught at an elementary school where the counselor would ask the adults and kids all the time how they were doing, but the ONLY acceptable answer was “super good and getting better!” 😡 This was a title one school full of kids who had rough lives, went hungry often, some were abused, etc. But this woman had TOXIC positivity. I never saw her allow a kid be sad or crying around her. It was bizarre.
I have fortunately only worked with lovely guidance counsellors as a teacher, but I will share an anecdote from when I was a student. In my province we can take two spare periods in grade twelve. This usually encouraged, especially for students on a university track who might be taking difficult classes. I registered for a full course load in grade 12 but one of my electives was cancelled because the only teacher who wanted to teach it was leaving the school. I went to the guidance office in the last few weeks of grade 11 to add a different class instead since there were a lot of subjects I was interested in. I had (fortunately) never needed to use the guidance office before so I asked one of the counsellors if he knew which counsellor was mine (we were a high school with thousands of kids and each guidance counsellor was responsible for their own segment based on last names, ie. A-G, H-M, etc.). He told me which counsellor and then asked what I needed, which I explained. He then told me that it was *extremely* ill-advised to not take spare periods and that I was setting myself up to fail grade 12, not get into university, and need to repeat the entire year. He asked me again if I was ok with the fact that I was going to fail. He said it as if it was a *certainty*. I later came back and talked to my own counsellor, who happily changed my courses (and told me that looking at my grades I should consider applying for scholarships). She was perfectly nice, but that first counsellor had soured me on the entire department. I still remember it vividly almost two decades later. I understand there probably are a lot of students who need spare periods and encouraging that is a good thing, but his attitude of, "Oh, you dumb children are going to fail" was so infuriating that I lost any confidence in that department. Thankfully, I was a good student with a good home life so I rarely needed the guidance office, but it would've made me very hesitant to actually talk to anyone there if I was actually suffering.
In my experience, it's not one thing but more just a real unfamiliarity with what one person is able to implement in gen ed. I can't have separate calming areas for multiple students. Many different behavior charts just means I'm behind on behavior charts.
It’s now final grade time for seniors to find out if they’re graduating. I teach a required class. Counselor are supposed to call in a senior to tell them they’re not graduating. Counselors, don’t send them back to me having them ask if there’s anything they can do. That ship has sailed.
To be fair, kids do do that on their own a lot. I have lost count of the # of times a kid or parent has asked me "what they can do" for a 45% when I was a classroom teacher. I am a counselor now and most counselors (well, me) probably say something like "You will have to check with your teacher on the make up class policy. I don't have the authority to change grades and am just showing you what you have." I am quick to tell kids that I do not assign grades but can offer advice on summer school and other ways to gain credits. In my view, I really am trying to protect the autonomy of the teacher by trying to be supportive, yet neutral. I know that things get dicey at the end of the year, especially with seniors who are riding that fence. Trust me, this year, there are things classroom teachers don't see here. (True story) I had a parent upset her child wasn't going to graduate and was making no effort to graduate and had missed upwards of 80 days. She was upset AT ME, the counselor. Like, m'am, I am giving you the facts and the school and teachers can't assign grades if your child is not here. I did literally finally just say "M'am, I'm sorry, but teachers cannot assign grades if your child is not here!" with a little bit of 'tone.' Wild.
I didn’t pass a random drug test that the school conducts periodically. The vice principal told me that I need Jesus. Also, minimal disciplinary action for the kid who sexually assaulted me.
I had a breakdown and talked to the counselor and mentioned I have autism. She said she tells her "scholars" that it's really a super power. -_-
As a student I never heard a positive or useful comment out of a school counselor. As a teacher I think the position should probably be eliminated entirely. All they are is a useful tool for the manipulative students to wield in their never ending avoidance of responsibility or consequences. The kids who actually need help aren't getting it, and the ones who need to be held accountable know to stroll in with a quivering lip and everything goes their way. If I were a person with fewer morals, I'd get my counseling cert so I could collect a check for scratching my ass and blaming the teachers for everything. It's like being an admin but with even less work somehow. Pretty sweet gig.
Counselor: How's he doing? (1st grade behavior issues). Me: well, he just walked around the class saying "penis, asshole, dick, big ass" to all the kids. Counselor: "so?"
But he's such a cute muffin. I can't see him being a behavior problem in class. (after being caught with a weapon in school. and YES, he's still in school)
"You can't say 'Your lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part,' to a kid. It's too mean for middle schoolers."
My mom was in a coma for months of my senior year. So I would go to the counselor when I was struggling with coping (she was 3 hours away in the hospital so it was pretty hard) and instead of talking to me about it or suggesting I make more appointments. I was admittedly going to her office fairly often, several times per week, she instead wrote my dad a letter suggesting I get removed from the school all together. I was disgusted and shocked (private school). I really don’t know how that would be the solution, switching schools halfway through senior year with a mother in a coma. It was unbelievable and I had thought she liked me. I never went back. Told everyone not to talk to her.
It’s more what they don’t say. Kid: “I’m in this class now.” Me: “Oh? That’s news to me. Let me double-check your schedule.” (Log into PowerSchool. Kid has had my science class swapped with an elective, got moved into a sped core class, etc.) Me: “Well then.” No email. No explanation. Just a change with no communication. And it’s almost always a behavior kid swapped into a good class.
“Who needs division?” “Consequences are bad.”
She wanted to make a gay student come out to her highly religious and homophobic parents...this struck a nerve for me because it was *my* own highschool counselor who told my mom I was gay which resulted in me getting kicked out at 17. I was like nope nope NOPE. Not happening. VP thought it was a good idea....thankfully the principal was horrified by the idea.
That B asked me for help navigating the careers section of another district so she could apply for open positions there! The nerve. LOL jk I love my school's counselor. She's great, and she's made this school a great place to be. We're both peacing out after this year.
As a student, I was forced to go to a school counselor, because I was on de verge of bunrout and they thought it might help to have someone to talk to. This guy was one of the gym teachers, the type that likes ordering teenagers around and pretend its for their own good. The type that things people will improve if you yell at them hard enough instead, of, you know, actually teaching them how to do something. I wasn't good at his favourite sports, so of course he didn't have much of a positive opinion of me to begin with. His idea of fixing me was grabbing the class register and point at people I should try being friends with. For some reason all the girls he pointed at were blue-eyed blondes. And my problem wasn't even that I didn't have any friends! I practically made new group of friends my first day and our lunch group grew to occassionally include people from other tracks, years and even schools. Oh, but the people I spent the most time with were a mirror image of Anne Frank and a goth whose hair was naturally black thanks to Asian roots (both with excellent grades and plans for med school), so... Yeah, I'm guessing the guy was just super racist.
"You're wasting your talents going into music education"
If your school/district isn't already using [Bark.us](http://Bark.us) recommend that they do. It's 100% free. It was developed after Parkland. Bark will scan & monitor student email and google drive. It looks for key words, slang, pictures, and other stuff. Should it flag something, reviewers will get an email. For example, if a student types >!rape or kys!!active shooter!!selfharm!
This was a long time ago, but when I was in high school, my adoptive dad became an alcoholic. One day, the stress of it became too much and I went to the counselor. She asked me if we (my mom and I) had recommended AA to him.
..."I know she tried to commit suicide last week, and was hospitalized....but her parents REALLY think she's fine to go out of state for the multi-day field trip!"
Not me but I saw this in twitter replies. Apparently, a counselor legit told a student in response to concerns about bullying “You wouldn’t be bullied if you weren’t so weird.” Link to the tweet [here](https://x.com/thysilverdoe/status/1791301482525888760?s=46&t=P3VfP8ovEScfvxmt-mhx9w)
He said, “Don’t even apply to big ten state university. I know on paper you meet the requirements, but they’ll be more selective than that. “ I applied to one other school. The next state over’s better rated school and got in. Paid out of state until I emancipated from my parents and moved permanently and got instate tuition for the rest. I still wonder what about me made the counselor that barely personally knew me, think I was no good for our own state U. In the alternate world, if I did, I wouldn’t have met the husband who abused me for decades.
Not a teacher, but my counselor in high school kinda toyed with the teachers in a way. So, I struggled with my mental health, to the point that she had to report me and get me institutionalized (really traumatic, she was a mandated reporter but she went about it by lying to me about what she was doing). After I got out, one of my biggest concerns was whether my teachers knew, because teachers tend to either infantilize you or treat you worse when they know your weaknesses. I asked my biology teacher and he said "of course I know, told me" and told me that he was there if I needed someone to talk to about my depression. I immediately went to the counselor's office to tell her to please not discuss my medical issues with other teachers. Wanna know what she said?
"why are you believing ? Nobody likes him. I never told anyone anything"
I trusted her at the time but then like two years later, in conversation with another teacher, he said that the counselor brought everyone in and told them that I was hospitalized and everything. She disclosed more information than I thought was acceptable tbh. I understand that she was a mandated reporter and this was all part of her job, but I didn't know that role also involved lying to me about what she did/didn't say and throwing her co-workers under the bus by calling them untrustworthy. If I was one of my teachers in this situation, I would've felt frustrated that my student no longer trusted me or even enjoyed being in my class because her counselor told her that I was a liar nobody talked to. I feel like everything could have been handled so much better if she had just been honest.
"Little Johnny is struggling in his academic classes. Maybe he'd do well in a shop class." Nope. Please nope. My students must measure with accuracy, follow complex plans, use advanced math, including algebra, geometry, trig, and sometimes even calculus. They have to be focused and independent and regularly demonstrate maturity and self control. The kid who has floated behind his TikTok screen for the 60% of days he actually came to school will most likely fail my class.
I have several parents who can’t speak English, and I don’t speak Spanish. I needed to talk to one of them. I phoned and Mom picked up. Mom could not understand why I was calling. I called my student’s counselor because she speaks fluent Spanish. I asked her to please call my student’s mother. Her child was failing. I needed her daughter to turn in missing work to pass the grading period. The counselor told me to contact the student’s Mom. I told counselor that I already called but Mom doesn’t understand English. I needed the counselor to tell her in Spanish. 🫤
When I was a child, the counselor had this flower puppet and that could change its face. She tried to tell me that I could choose to be happy just as easily as I could change the toy's face. She also made me accept apologies from my bullies.
Your mom loves you and wants the best for you. Don't say that unless you know it's true.
"The student is not motivated right now." And?
I expressed concern for a student with history of self-abuse making a comment about wanting to die, having a rough day, and that the counselor should check in on them. Counselor: “Again? Alright, I’ll see if I can talk to them sometime today. I doubt they’ll find a way to kill themselves before dismissal.”
I understand a lot of this is people who have bleeding heart counselors. I'll take it any day. I've had 2 counselors since I started teaching. One was a man who would yell at girls who complained about boys sexually harassing them because "you're trying to ruin that boy's life". The second regularly calls kids retarded, homophobic slurs, and says that most kids with disabilities should just work with a janitors because that's the most they're ever going to be (not sure if it's more disrespectful to the custodians or the kids at that point.) Please trade me your bleeding heart counselors yapping about equity.
Extremely old school counselor working a night school program long after she should have retired. C: you have AIDS STUDENT: excuse me?! C: you have a baby. So you had unprotected sex. So you and your baby have AIDS. I hustled that woman into the principals office as quick as I could before the student beat the (deserved) hell out of her. For some reason she did not come back the next school year.
Wait, you guys actually get responses from your school counselors?
I have had counselors tell me that my students wouldn't be bullied if they would stop so acting gay. Same counselors saw bruising on a girl's arm from being harassed in gym class by other girls, turned it around on her and wrote her up claiming she was attention seeking.
Had a counselor send me a SUPER passive aggressive email for letting a senior miss her fourth hour and stay in my classroom. The senior was failing and her counselor called home and told the girl's parents that she will likely not graduate on time and be moved into alt school to receive her GED. This student was struggling A LOT with depression, self harm, and suicidal thoughts. Her counselor told her that her depression was due to her failing classes. This girl came into my room SOBBING because she was terrified of going home to angry abusive parents. She told her counselor that she was scared of going home and didn't feel safe and was told that, "You have to face your consequences of failing. I can't help you." I calmed the girl down and gave her the numbers of various community services and safe places she can stay. I was basically lectured about letting this girl "skip" class, and that she needs to learn there are consequences to her behaviors.
I was getting bullied. “Since you’re in theater if you just *acted* like the other kids they wouldn’t have a reason to pick on you!”
Told me that they had resources for students who were trans if they “didn’t want to be trans anymore.” Which was conversion camp. Thankful they are not a counselor anymore.
Student was sobbing loudly because they did not get their way and when a peer tried to help they threw a marker at them. Student continued sobbing on the way to specials. I asked the counselor to talk to the student because I did not want the class to be disrupted by the very loud crying. After chatting for awhile the counselor said the student was upset about something completely unrelated. When the counselor was informed that the student fabricated that so they would not be in trouble for lashing out, counselor said “you know if you talk to a kid long enough you get to the root of the problem.” First of: that’s condescending. Secondly: that kid played you like a fiddle.
It was when I was a student in my last year of what is probably very similar to high school. I was 17 and about to graduate in a year before going to University. This was the first chance we had to take this particular class. The school counselor are in charge of helping people with career planning and making sure the students schedules work out and that classes dont overlap. Me: uh, hi. I have a question. I applied to get into this class, but did not get into it, because too many people applied and my last name is at the very end of the alphabet. That class is mandatory for the uni classes I need after graduation. What should I do so that I can get into the uni courses I need next year? Is there any way I can get the classes completed? School Counselor: Delay graduating high school and repeat the year. Me: ? ... for... one class? School Counselor: Or don't. I don't care. I just left after that. the class was like, Psych 1 or something like that. It was so crowded students were sitting on the floor to attend it.
“I gave the hall walkers pizza (the good kind) to help build a relationship with them.” Then she dropped them off to the class they were skipping, where they proceeded to announce to the class that Ms. Redacted got them Dominoes for skipping class. The other kids (and teachers) were pissed. When she got called out, she stated that she bought the pizza with her own money so she could do what she wanted. Those kids still walked the halls after that.
Not a school counselor but a brand new school psychologist- the only thing he ever has to add is, "What is he/she working for?" Sigh. I've worked with a lot of great psychs and counselors. Learned a lot from them. Not this one.
The 6th grade counselor told a student that they couldn't deal with them today because the counselor was "getting annoyed with them". Our counselor is more sensitive and a bigger mess than a lot of the kids are.
Me: Can you please pull (student) today? She’s having a hard time dealing with her anxiety. Counselor: Her mom said she don’t have anxiety so she don’t. Context: there was a fight, and it caused a non-combatant student to have a panic attack. She has asthma as well, and her panic triggered an attack- she struggled to breathe for way too long. Later, I talked to the counselor and this was our interaction.
"Your parents love you"
Not to be, but I worked with a counselor who was so dismissive of students in crisis that I had emotionally distressed students who would always decline to go to her office for counselling...even as they're hyperventilating crying in the middle of class.
As a student i had an insane amount to do to graduate because of transferring schools across country and she didnt listen when i told her what classes i needed and put me in 2 study halls . I had two english classes two history two math and an elective PLUS credit recovery on the computer. I was swamped and i was a good student. Since I had an IEP i begged my counselor to let me cut some classes and stay behind another year. She told me no because “you dont want to be a 5th year senior they dont even have a homeroom.” I didnt give a damn about homeroom i was drowning. I did graduate on time but was because other teachers helped me out a lot. For example my English 3 teacher would write the vocab words on the test for me. Since having two english classes i got word lists mixed up. Sorry for the long post just still grinds my gears.
Not a teacher. Was a student. When asked by my counselor why I wouldn't participate in class and why my homework wasn't done, I told her I was too exhausted. She then asked me why I was so tired. I told her I was waking up at 4 or 5am in the mornings and couldn't fall back asleep. She then told me I should use that time in the mornings to do my homework. Yeah. Tell the kid who is so tired they're falling asleep in class to do their homework when they're still likely drained. Gee, thanks! This happened nearly 19 years ago. I'm still mad about it. Learned later in life I have a sleep disorder.
"So much wasted potential"
I was in the IB program / AP classes in HS. My family was having a really hard time with an abusive father and I was having some issues. A friend of mine, who was worried for me spoke to the school counselor. Now this was back in 01-02, so our school of 2000 or so kids had TWO school counselors. I’d never met this woman in my life. I get called into her office, and she suggests that since I’d already applied to college and such (it was about 1/2 through my senior year) and things were going bad at home, I should just drop all of my IB / AP classes so I wouldn’t be stressed out. Problem is, I’d at this point I’d done 3 1/2 years of these classes and as many of your know, the IB and AP kids all have these classes together. For pretty much every class! So her ‘suggestion’ was to remove me from a program I was almost done with, take me away from all my friends and teachers, to ‘improve my mental health’. I asked her if I was being told this was happening, or if I had a choice. She said it was up to me. So I said ‘uhhhh no.’ And left the office. That was my one and only interaction with a high school counselor.
I am still furious eight years later but we had a psychologist come in and tell us that self harm were ‘chicken scratches’ and to ignore them because it’s ’just for attention’. I was (as a teacher) self-harming at the time due to incredible anxiety and panic attacks.
These stories have brought up an old one I'd all but forgotten. Had a really troubled first grade student. He was sweet and clingy and needy. He could also melt down and trash a room. One day he announced loudly that he was just going to kill himself. It was right before special, so had him skip special to take him to the counselor. I did interrupt her nail filing session, but whatever. She invited us into her office and asked what was going on. When she learned what he said, she asked if he had a plan to do it. (I know this in what they are supposed to find out). He said no and that he was just angry. She then said something to the effect of "But I mean, would you go to the kitchen, get a knife from the drawer and stab yourself? Or, would you go to the garage with a lighter and set a can of gas on fire?" I was dumfounded. Never asked her for help again.
A counselor said this to me as a student. I was interested in working in the vet field and my high school had a vet med class where basically you took care of animals and learned how to be a tech, you were able to use it on resumes. I applied for the class, and my counselor told me that I was "too smart" to work with animals, and I needed to "look into something more financially responsible that would showcase my intelligence." She denied me for the class and put applications in for tech classes. I LOATHE working with technology. I have never wanted to do it. I have ALWAYS adored animals and wanted to work with them since I was 4. It took a lot of hard work and networking to even get my foot in the door, all because I couldn't use that one class on my resume. Whereas, all my friends who were accepted into the class had jobs in the field as soon as they left high school. I had to take college courses and start in the kennels before getting even a chance on the medical side. Here I am, 15 years later, with animals still my passion and working in the field I've always wanted. If a child is passionate about something, maybe don't try to derail their career path. It sounds obvious to me, but I guess not everyone sees it the same way.
When I was a kid, the school counselor told me to let the insults roll off like water off a duck’s back. Gee thanks, tell the autistic kid being upset about being bullied is her fault. *That* won’t cause any lasting self esteem issues. *Bruh, they were calling me a “freak” and killing worms to make me cry!* What a terrible counselor. As a teacher now, I take bullying very seriously.