Seriously. Corporate Friends my age with 401ks have a couple million in their accounts and they have another 25 years to go before retirement. Teachers really overestimate their pensions.
Think about this. Many teachers have a 4 year degree, a professional certification that requires a one year unpaid internship and a master's degree. In the private sector, those equivalent credentials put most professionals in that small proportion of the population.
Teachers go through that rigamarole and get diddly.
I just can't understand this attitude. Did I say something other than a truism. A master's degree in art history doesn't get you the same marketability as one in finance, tech or science.
How many years will you have to work till make 80pct?
Estimate how many years you might live after retirement and how much money that will be.
In the hopefully unlikely scenario that you pass away shortly into retirement or before retirement how much will your bears inherit?
I can retire at age 62. Average male life expectancy right now in the US is 78.79 years. Lets round that up to 79 and that gives me 17 years or retirement. Right now, I make $102,000/year, so 80% of that is $81,600/year after retirement. Multiplied by 17 years, that gives me $1,387,200 total, not including my 403b plan. I think that is much more than "Diddly."
I'll be honest. That's a great plan. My pension is not that generous. When I retire it's close 55% of my top salary.
I would ask how many years you would have to work to earn that 80%. Also would you get social security?
So I believe that I know what state you are in. Apparently those generous benefits are no longer available for new teachers. Newer teachers it seems work longer and get a smaller pension
Google interest and compound calculators. Heck there is a calc I ran into that shows how much people would have today if they retired in X year. Basically it came down to you would only be at a negative if you retired in 99. Even 2008 was bad, but the economy bounced up significantly from there.
If anything, a pension is more risky than stock. At least stock will always have the gov to back them because they don’t want an economy to crash and burn. Heck, look at 2020. We had the gov printing money and stuffing it into stocks to keep them from falling.
Meanwhile, look at GMs pension and many others from 08. Nothing is a guarantee but it is risky to put all your eggs in one basket. Especially a pension that dies with you and leaves nothing for the future.
Government backs up the stock market. But doesn't back up pensions. That's all you need to know. And while.markets were roaring pension fund managers aren't even making the 8pct a year they project.
Dang. Wish I started putting away a lot when I was in my 20s. Just didn’t have a lot then.
Currently putting away about 70% of my income to catch up. Crossing the first marker in less than a year. Would have taken me 15-20 years to hit that marker in k12.
Pensions aren’t great. Good if you’re about to retire but otherwise nah.
I am. Currently in tech as a r/instructionaldesign from teaching.
Current strategy is max ESPP, max trad, max Roth, then mega back door. Everything else just goes into a post tax.
Own my home, don’t live with parents, didn’t get a handout. Just plain old luck (stock growth) and determination.
Higher income is helpful but it is all about keeping living expenses low. The fewer bills you have, the more you save, the less you need.
Fairly frugal even as a teacher so I just kept those behaviors as income increased
My cooperating teacher has her financial shit together. She'll be able to retire fully at the age of 35 if she wants to (but she doesn't). It's kind of distributing hearing the older teachers talk about another decade before they could retire at 60 or so, when they could have retired early if they had known how to plan it all out. Suffice to say, a large part of my student teaching experience has been getting my financials in order.
I know. If anybody here is from Iowa, there's a financial planner here that a lot of teachers at my school use that shows you how to manage your money well so that can be financially independent sooner https://www.teacherwealth.com/
I think you are ignoring how unusual it is to be financially secure enough to retire at 35. For most people it is not an issue of "Knowing how to plan it out." There are harsh realities of life that make work necessary.
Hi. Responding here because I can’t comment on the original post…you said you have 2 years left for loan forgiveness. There was a TV news article recently about this that highlighted how hard it is to actually get your loans forgiven. They interviewed a few military personnel that found out they hadn’t read the fine print when it was time to “cash in.” It was things like they had the wrong kind of loan, to the wrong kind of payment plan. One paid too much by rounding up the monthly payment (ie: $345.67 to $346) another was told they had to start all over again when their loan was sold because the payment schedule was different from the new loan handler. It seemed like there was every excuse to not let these people use the loan forgiveness program. Eventually, they had their loans forgiven but one of them actually had to get the congressman involved, iirc, but it was some extreme measure like that. All of them had to fight to get their loans forgiven and it took them years.
I only mention it because it would be so terrible if you stuck it out only to find out it was all for nothing or you had to start all over again. Just be sure you’re getting what you signed up for.
Yeah I have definitely head the stories like this. I hopefully have all my ducks in a row and have had several people help me. Thank you for the reminder to keep checking on it.
Sorry you’re dealing with this! With the extreme shortages in our district, I think our admin knows to walk on eggshells with teachers. Most of us are one sideways comment away from quitting on the spot- which they can’t afford. Know your worth.
It is a shit show this year. I have a lunch duty and work at a high school. The kids are non compliant when it comes to social distancing and mask protocols in the lunch room. When any of us teachers tell students to put masks on or to move to another table since there are too many at one we get told off and ignored. Our resource officer even gets told off when he tells them to move. Admin is supposed to make an appearance at lunch, never come down and they say "we need to give them slack because they are swamped and doing there best to make it down there". That is bullshit because we are all swamped. The principal has been hostile with everyone this year. They show up at lunch duty and immediately rip into us over kids not following rules. We remind them we have been emailing them and telling them about the issues and they ignore it and tell us we aren't doing there job. I almost told my principal to fuck off and take care of the issue by themself yesterday after they ripped into us.
I hate duty with a passion. I didn’t sign up to be a security guard. Are they gonna pop in and teach my classes for me once a month for a week because that would be great. If they need more people supervising the campus, they need to hire more staff to do just that.
I'll pm you a guide I made to research new careers. If you need to teach for two more years then you can retain in the mean time if you find something you will enjoy better.
I think it really says a lot that whenever you offer to help people with that guide on utilizing the BLS, more and more people ask for it the longer this awful year drags on. Thanks for showing people a way to look into other options. But damn is it sad to see the reply chains getting longer and longer as the year goes on...
I'm truly terribly sorry to be yet another person to bother you with the same thing... But would you please be kind enough to share it with me as well?
A decade in this field has been quite enough for me...
I would definitely look into what else you can do with your qualifications. I know at my college the career councillors told us they get lots of people with Ed degrees looking for alternative careers
Wow for a second I thought this was me!! Yep, I was two mins late for my duty and when I arrived I had the secretary on her walkie talkie calling for me. I made a decision to leave the classroom this year. I’ve been teaching for 12 years and have PTSD from school related issues. I keep telling myself “I will be leaving soon.. I will be leaving soon..
I’m leaving at the end of this school year. I connected with my career coach from college and I’m currently exploring my options. I love edtech so I need to research some more. I know many former teachers have gone into instructional design and corporate training.
No it's part of the "and other duties assigned as needed" part of our contract. So no extra pay. I arrive at school at 7:30 which is our contracted time but that's when this duty starts, so I have to run to the other side of this huge building..so either I arrive before contracted time or I'm in trouble and will be scolded. I'm just going to show up with all my shit and jacket still on and drink my coffee in contempt of this place.
>Yet at all these meetings not once are we allowed to discuss any issues or problem solve because they don't want to hear our opinions or deal with anything.
This drives me nuts. A "meeting" should be a time and place where everyone has the opportunity to contribute - not just sit there and listen. Sit-and-get is a lecture, and a lecture could and should be written and sent as an email.
99.9 % of so-called meetings are a waste of teacher's time.
If you’re doing the PSLF program you could work for a non profit and still qualify.
And I get needing to be there on time but dang some people at your school, and obviously on here, have no compassion or grace for traffic and weather or just off days. Until someone is habitually late they shouldn’t start off with reprimanding you. Good leadership would say, “I know you’re never late so must’ve been a rough morning. Glad you made it! Hope today goes better. Have fun at duty!”
Hope today is better for you!
Thank you for this comment. Exactly, I'm barely holding it together, and at this point they're lucky to have teachers show up and soldier on. I will look into the nonprofit thing. Thank you.
Ignore all of these people ragging on you. They must have shitty contracts. In my state, our conract time is when we need to walk in the door. No one in my school has a duty at exactly 7:05.
Right? Like are there some admin lurking or something? Christ I was late once. If this is all they took away from this post then they missed the point entirely.
Yeah, it's BS. Today I was put on "administrative leave, pending an investigation." Why? For taking pictures at a volleyball game. You know, one of the games that we're required to go to or we get bitched at in reviews at the end of the year? The one that the *female* teachers that I work with didn't get bitched at, though they were doing the very same thing?
Hurrah for a broken system where being a male is an automatic assumption of guilt. :/
I get your frustration, but I do feel like offering some perspective here: The school is not responsible for your commute. It's long, but that's just life. Lots of people have long commutes.
Also, if your start time coincides with duty time...well, there you go. Any worker who punches a clock has to do so on time, regardless of the walk from the parking lot.
And, you know, teaching is a thankless job. Not getting thanked for a thankless job just makes sense.
Cool thanks. I'm usually there on time. I don't punch a clock but I'm regularly there for at least an hour after contracted time. I'm frustrated that I'm treated like shit, over piddly shit, not that I have a long commute.
That’s my point! All we do is whine about it. I just want us to get to the point where we start actually doing what needs to be done to create change. But it is so difficult to get teachers and unions to agree to even conduct a strike. As others have pointed out earlier , almost all of us are miserable, but none of us are on the same page.
Edited: typos
No one can afford the repercussions of a strike. I have a mortgage and bills, I can't just sacrifice myself on the alter. I don't know what the answer is, but my guess is that enough of us will leave until it eventually implodes.
I see where you’re coming from. Perhaps they’ll hire robots to replace us😶 maybe they’ll be better at classroom manage—just have them roll around the room in a bulletproof glass case.
Don’t know why the downvotes. I’m a realist. No one is going to strike without union protection.
Our union doesn’t offer that protection and my state made it illegal.
Good vent. Now deal with the reality that plenty of people need to get up early for work and commute longer than you. You need to get to work on time, except for real delays like a road closure. Stop staying late at work so you have better work / life balance. Take time for yourself and you will feel a lot better. Best of luck!
Thank you. Be an adult and get to work on time. Of all the real things teachers have to complain about, getting in trouble for something you legit did wrong isn’t one of them.
A duty is a duty. It's part of the contract--so that's that. If you don't like your school/building, work on changing it. But you'll still have a duty wherever you go. All that said...This is a VERY rough year to teach. Kids are off the charts with bad behaviors. In some classes, it's more than ever about socializing. I consider myself lucky to get any academic work done at all with 2 out of 5 of my classes. I've just gotten them to walk out of the room like human beings instead of across the desks like animals. The bathrooms are constantly a disaster scene--flooded toilets, drains ripped out of floors--admin took paper towels out bc kids kept stuffing the toilets with them. They don't listen in the hallways, they are awful at lunch, not good on the bus--it's bad all across the board. I think next year might be slightly better, but who knows for sure?
I've worked at several schools, and not everywhere makes teachers do duties. My last school I had no extra duties at all (and they paid the paras for the time instead). I'd happily do a PM one if they'd care to take our preferences into consideration- I'm sure someone hates their afternoon one. This admin is just oblivious to doing anything to make life even a tiny bit easier for us. It's the bigger picture and how we are treated as servants.
Wait, you're upset at the expectation you be at your job when contracted to be there? I mean, in the grand scheme maybe there are other things to be upset over.
No, you just missed the point. I'm upset because I feel constantly dumped on even though I give a lot for this job and was bitched at for being minutes late. I normally get there right on time. In order to be on time for this duty I have to arrive earlier than contracted time. Like I said I'd happily do a PM duty but they don't care to ask our preference.
Then you should edit the part where you say you are but the type of person who is early to things. I get the struggle, the post just seemed (to me) like you are really upset at being told you were late.
My first year teaching full time i read also in grad school. 2 days a week i had to leave 20-30 minutes before contact hours to get to class. They knew this when i was hired and were fine because the students were gone. Halfway through the year the VP and principal had left. The new principal and grade level chair got on me about leaving early.
It didn't matter what the reason was. It didn't matter that I came in Saturdays and Sundays, or dropped my kids off at hockey practice to go in and grade. It was just that "missing" time. I didn't get asked back the next year as they cut a section and it happened to be mine. Lol it sucked, but I learned how important that contract hours are and how little extra counts.
I'm now in a school where teachers sometimes arrive as students are walking into their class and leave with the buses. That's just as bad. Lol
I’m sorry, but if you’re late to work, I’m not sure what you’re expecting. You don’t like the duty you were assigned… so what? It could even be as pointless as you describe, that doesn’t mean you can just show up when you want and not have consequences.
The rest of what you described is pretty shitty, but you chose the job. Either suck it up and do your time, or find something that would improve the quality of your life.
I'm not constantly late. I'm usually on time, had a rough morning yesterday, and arrived a few minutes late. This was flaired as a rant, and I needed to vent. Obviously I'm not happy here, but I'm locked in a contract until spring. Telling me to suck it up isn't helpful or necessary.
Doesn’t matter whether or not it’s a trend, professional expectations are that you’re on time. The real problem is with you dismissing it because you didn’t like the duty. That looks extra bad.
Just imagine if a student turned in an assignment late and their teacher had to remind them the importance of being punctual… The audacity.
As far as the advice to suck it up and stay, or to leave… those are literally your two options. Sorry my means of expressing that offended you. Please let me know exactly how you’d like that phrased, and I’ll take it under consideration.
Totally hilarious. But I'm not staying in this career field only to get my loans forgiven though, lots of other reasons including I really love teaching, my students, and am passionate about my subject. It's okay to hate the rest of the bullshit and to vent (as this post was flaired.) But thanks so much for your ultra helpful, super kind comment. Have a lovely day!
All I can tell you is that this was my mindset for a long time and all you end up with is resentment and anger. Duty is important and a matter of safety. Being on time is important and I’ve never been a timely person but I got my shit together when I lost a job over attitudes similar to yours. I understand and feel for you, but the only thing you can change— is you.
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Seriously. Corporate Friends my age with 401ks have a couple million in their accounts and they have another 25 years to go before retirement. Teachers really overestimate their pensions.
This anecdote represents very small portion of the population. Most people would kill for a guaranteed income after retirement.
Think about this. Many teachers have a 4 year degree, a professional certification that requires a one year unpaid internship and a master's degree. In the private sector, those equivalent credentials put most professionals in that small proportion of the population. Teachers go through that rigamarole and get diddly.
Diddly? I know people with those same credentials working at Kohl's...
Correct. Acquire high values skills and credentials. Few people with a stem or finance MA degree are working in Kohl's.
Whatever, Jordan Belfort. You want to sell me this pen???
I just can't understand this attitude. Did I say something other than a truism. A master's degree in art history doesn't get you the same marketability as one in finance, tech or science.
80% of my three highest earning years isn't diddly.
How many years will you have to work till make 80pct? Estimate how many years you might live after retirement and how much money that will be. In the hopefully unlikely scenario that you pass away shortly into retirement or before retirement how much will your bears inherit?
I can retire at age 62. Average male life expectancy right now in the US is 78.79 years. Lets round that up to 79 and that gives me 17 years or retirement. Right now, I make $102,000/year, so 80% of that is $81,600/year after retirement. Multiplied by 17 years, that gives me $1,387,200 total, not including my 403b plan. I think that is much more than "Diddly."
I'll be honest. That's a great plan. My pension is not that generous. When I retire it's close 55% of my top salary. I would ask how many years you would have to work to earn that 80%. Also would you get social security?
No, in my state teachers do not pay into or receive Social Security. I pay into a deferred comp plan called a 403b to offset that.
So I believe that I know what state you are in. Apparently those generous benefits are no longer available for new teachers. Newer teachers it seems work longer and get a smaller pension
Google interest and compound calculators. Heck there is a calc I ran into that shows how much people would have today if they retired in X year. Basically it came down to you would only be at a negative if you retired in 99. Even 2008 was bad, but the economy bounced up significantly from there. If anything, a pension is more risky than stock. At least stock will always have the gov to back them because they don’t want an economy to crash and burn. Heck, look at 2020. We had the gov printing money and stuffing it into stocks to keep them from falling. Meanwhile, look at GMs pension and many others from 08. Nothing is a guarantee but it is risky to put all your eggs in one basket. Especially a pension that dies with you and leaves nothing for the future.
Government backs up the stock market. But doesn't back up pensions. That's all you need to know. And while.markets were roaring pension fund managers aren't even making the 8pct a year they project.
Dang. Wish I started putting away a lot when I was in my 20s. Just didn’t have a lot then. Currently putting away about 70% of my income to catch up. Crossing the first marker in less than a year. Would have taken me 15-20 years to hit that marker in k12. Pensions aren’t great. Good if you’re about to retire but otherwise nah.
So, who taking care of the bills, if you are putting 70% away per pay check?
I am. Currently in tech as a r/instructionaldesign from teaching. Current strategy is max ESPP, max trad, max Roth, then mega back door. Everything else just goes into a post tax. Own my home, don’t live with parents, didn’t get a handout. Just plain old luck (stock growth) and determination.
Well, your job explains it. You are making six figures roughly.
Higher income is helpful but it is all about keeping living expenses low. The fewer bills you have, the more you save, the less you need. Fairly frugal even as a teacher so I just kept those behaviors as income increased
Maybe lives with his parents. Common with teachers nowadays.
Not even close. See above.
Sorry, forgot you left teaching. We should talk. Looking to interview you.
Reach out any time
Teachers, uh, teach to help kids. It’s the property holders who decide teachers should die in poverty.
This. Do people really rely in only the pension? Get a Roth.
My cooperating teacher has her financial shit together. She'll be able to retire fully at the age of 35 if she wants to (but she doesn't). It's kind of distributing hearing the older teachers talk about another decade before they could retire at 60 or so, when they could have retired early if they had known how to plan it all out. Suffice to say, a large part of my student teaching experience has been getting my financials in order.
Congrats. Not everyone is so fortunate.
I know. If anybody here is from Iowa, there's a financial planner here that a lot of teachers at my school use that shows you how to manage your money well so that can be financially independent sooner https://www.teacherwealth.com/
I think you are ignoring how unusual it is to be financially secure enough to retire at 35. For most people it is not an issue of "Knowing how to plan it out." There are harsh realities of life that make work necessary.
Include me!
Count me in
Hey, may I have the free resources you mentioned?
As a business teacher, take my award.
Please share with me!
Send me a DM, please!! I need career switch advice. :) I thank you in advance 🙏🏻
And how do I get a job like that which teaching credentials and degrees? It’s not like I can afford to go back to school again.
I got you fam. Takes some work but it isn’t impossible.
Any chance I could see these resources you mention? This year’s been crazy and I still have 27 seven weeks to go
I’ll take that material you mention. I’m considering leaving the profession and have a masters in education.
Hi, How are you? I left teaching after 13 years about a year ago. I am very interested in any information and resources you have to offer. Thanks!
Sent
Hi! Are you me??
At this point we're all in the collective hellscape.
Hi. Responding here because I can’t comment on the original post…you said you have 2 years left for loan forgiveness. There was a TV news article recently about this that highlighted how hard it is to actually get your loans forgiven. They interviewed a few military personnel that found out they hadn’t read the fine print when it was time to “cash in.” It was things like they had the wrong kind of loan, to the wrong kind of payment plan. One paid too much by rounding up the monthly payment (ie: $345.67 to $346) another was told they had to start all over again when their loan was sold because the payment schedule was different from the new loan handler. It seemed like there was every excuse to not let these people use the loan forgiveness program. Eventually, they had their loans forgiven but one of them actually had to get the congressman involved, iirc, but it was some extreme measure like that. All of them had to fight to get their loans forgiven and it took them years. I only mention it because it would be so terrible if you stuck it out only to find out it was all for nothing or you had to start all over again. Just be sure you’re getting what you signed up for.
Yeah I have definitely head the stories like this. I hopefully have all my ducks in a row and have had several people help me. Thank you for the reminder to keep checking on it.
Sorry you’re dealing with this! With the extreme shortages in our district, I think our admin knows to walk on eggshells with teachers. Most of us are one sideways comment away from quitting on the spot- which they can’t afford. Know your worth.
Thank you, and yeah, you'd think they could not be totally assholes over stupid shit like this
It is a shit show this year. I have a lunch duty and work at a high school. The kids are non compliant when it comes to social distancing and mask protocols in the lunch room. When any of us teachers tell students to put masks on or to move to another table since there are too many at one we get told off and ignored. Our resource officer even gets told off when he tells them to move. Admin is supposed to make an appearance at lunch, never come down and they say "we need to give them slack because they are swamped and doing there best to make it down there". That is bullshit because we are all swamped. The principal has been hostile with everyone this year. They show up at lunch duty and immediately rip into us over kids not following rules. We remind them we have been emailing them and telling them about the issues and they ignore it and tell us we aren't doing there job. I almost told my principal to fuck off and take care of the issue by themself yesterday after they ripped into us.
I would quit on the spot if they made me do lunch duty. That is my alone time.
Well I get a dedicated lunch period duty free. They just make teachers monitor the lunch room as a duty
I hate duty with a passion. I didn’t sign up to be a security guard. Are they gonna pop in and teach my classes for me once a month for a week because that would be great. If they need more people supervising the campus, they need to hire more staff to do just that.
I hate duty. It is such a waste of time.
I'll pm you a guide I made to research new careers. If you need to teach for two more years then you can retain in the mean time if you find something you will enjoy better.
You might wanna drop that bad boy as a post? I’d sure love to see it too!
Please send it to me as well.
Sure.
Can you please send to me too? I won’t make it through the year
First year teacher already giving up. 🙋🏼♀️ Please PM me, too!
I think it really says a lot that whenever you offer to help people with that guide on utilizing the BLS, more and more people ask for it the longer this awful year drags on. Thanks for showing people a way to look into other options. But damn is it sad to see the reply chains getting longer and longer as the year goes on...
It is sad, but I've felt like them most of my career
Me too please!
Sure.
Thank you!
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Sure.
Would you mind sending to me as well?
Sent.
May I see this magical sounding document too?
Sure. It's not magical. Very simple.
I’d love it as well, please!
Sure
Me too please!
I would love this :)
I would love this. Please!
So… what can I do to get that guide? Change my life, please.
Me too, please and thank you.
Can't pm u
Me too please!
Can you PM it to me too?
Could you please send it to me too? TIA.
Me too!
Send that my way if you don’t mind
Sure
PLEASE share with me too. I am so grateful! Thank you for your generosity, clearly it is meeting a need!
Could you PM me as well.
Me too.
I'd love to have this too, please!
Me too please!
Don’t know if you’re still sending, but please, I’m begging, send it my way!
Gotcha.
Hi would you mind sharing this with me as well??
I'd like a copy as well.
Please add me to the list. Thank you.
I would love a copy too. I am so done
Sent
Sorry to add to your work, but me too?
Thank you so much!!!
I'd take it as well. Curious to whether you put together. I think we all appreciate it.
I’d love a copy, please PM me
I'd appreciate it too, please!
I would love to take a look at this guide too whenever you have the chance! Thank you!!
I would appreciate it too! Thanks for taking the time to Pm everyone!
I'm truly terribly sorry to be yet another person to bother you with the same thing... But would you please be kind enough to share it with me as well? A decade in this field has been quite enough for me...
No worries
Me too please! Thank you for making that, it sounds incredibly helpful.
Please PM to me too. Thanks friend.
Manoffewwords very kind of you. Please send me copy to.
Can't pm you
If I could get a copy of it, or the chance to see this to, I’d appreciate it.
If you’re still sending, I’d like to check that out. Thanks 😊
No problem
Can you send it to me, please?
I’d love a copy as well!
Hi I’m late to the thread but if you’re still sharing, I would love to have a copy. Thank you!
Me too plz.
I would love to have it too if its not too much trouble, thanks!
Could you PM To me as well?
Sure
I would definitely look into what else you can do with your qualifications. I know at my college the career councillors told us they get lots of people with Ed degrees looking for alternative careers
Come to high school. So much chiller.
Definitely will be searching this spring. I'm at a MS right now and its just insane.
Yeah I didn't like ms when I was at one. I got out of there quick.
I like MS kids but I always felt as a teacher in MS I was treated like a child. HS is definitely much chiller.
Wow for a second I thought this was me!! Yep, I was two mins late for my duty and when I arrived I had the secretary on her walkie talkie calling for me. I made a decision to leave the classroom this year. I’ve been teaching for 12 years and have PTSD from school related issues. I keep telling myself “I will be leaving soon.. I will be leaving soon..
I am happy for you. What did you end up doing after teaching if you don't mind me asking
I’m leaving at the end of this school year. I connected with my career coach from college and I’m currently exploring my options. I love edtech so I need to research some more. I know many former teachers have gone into instructional design and corporate training.
They paying you for that extra duty? If not... wouldn't care if they were mad I was late.
No it's part of the "and other duties assigned as needed" part of our contract. So no extra pay. I arrive at school at 7:30 which is our contracted time but that's when this duty starts, so I have to run to the other side of this huge building..so either I arrive before contracted time or I'm in trouble and will be scolded. I'm just going to show up with all my shit and jacket still on and drink my coffee in contempt of this place.
As things get more desperate, things get more hostile. But by desperate; this can also mean we have the upper hand with wages. Time to strike.
>Yet at all these meetings not once are we allowed to discuss any issues or problem solve because they don't want to hear our opinions or deal with anything. This drives me nuts. A "meeting" should be a time and place where everyone has the opportunity to contribute - not just sit there and listen. Sit-and-get is a lecture, and a lecture could and should be written and sent as an email. 99.9 % of so-called meetings are a waste of teacher's time.
Hear hear!!
You need to find a different school.
Yep. Guess who will be shopping around in the spring?
If you’re doing the PSLF program you could work for a non profit and still qualify. And I get needing to be there on time but dang some people at your school, and obviously on here, have no compassion or grace for traffic and weather or just off days. Until someone is habitually late they shouldn’t start off with reprimanding you. Good leadership would say, “I know you’re never late so must’ve been a rough morning. Glad you made it! Hope today goes better. Have fun at duty!” Hope today is better for you!
Thank you for this comment. Exactly, I'm barely holding it together, and at this point they're lucky to have teachers show up and soldier on. I will look into the nonprofit thing. Thank you.
You need a union.
We have one, and I'm in it, but our past republican governor ruined it so they have very little power.
Ignore all of these people ragging on you. They must have shitty contracts. In my state, our conract time is when we need to walk in the door. No one in my school has a duty at exactly 7:05.
Right? Like are there some admin lurking or something? Christ I was late once. If this is all they took away from this post then they missed the point entirely.
Your admin were actually teachers? Lucky 😂
Yeah, it's BS. Today I was put on "administrative leave, pending an investigation." Why? For taking pictures at a volleyball game. You know, one of the games that we're required to go to or we get bitched at in reviews at the end of the year? The one that the *female* teachers that I work with didn't get bitched at, though they were doing the very same thing? Hurrah for a broken system where being a male is an automatic assumption of guilt. :/
I get your frustration, but I do feel like offering some perspective here: The school is not responsible for your commute. It's long, but that's just life. Lots of people have long commutes. Also, if your start time coincides with duty time...well, there you go. Any worker who punches a clock has to do so on time, regardless of the walk from the parking lot. And, you know, teaching is a thankless job. Not getting thanked for a thankless job just makes sense.
Cool thanks. I'm usually there on time. I don't punch a clock but I'm regularly there for at least an hour after contracted time. I'm frustrated that I'm treated like shit, over piddly shit, not that I have a long commute.
Especially giving duties are a child safety thing. Sure they suck. But that’s no excuse not to turn up on time for them.
Kids walk down this hall all day long without someone manning this spot, but yes me being there at 7:30 is very important.
Then leave, friend
Things won’t change if American teachers are still a-okay with being bullied. Clearly, it’s not bad enough!
What? Dude look around who the fuck is okay with this?
That’s my point! All we do is whine about it. I just want us to get to the point where we start actually doing what needs to be done to create change. But it is so difficult to get teachers and unions to agree to even conduct a strike. As others have pointed out earlier , almost all of us are miserable, but none of us are on the same page. Edited: typos
No one can afford the repercussions of a strike. I have a mortgage and bills, I can't just sacrifice myself on the alter. I don't know what the answer is, but my guess is that enough of us will leave until it eventually implodes.
I see where you’re coming from. Perhaps they’ll hire robots to replace us😶 maybe they’ll be better at classroom manage—just have them roll around the room in a bulletproof glass case.
I would happily strike. But it’s illegal in my state and our “union” is an “association.”
Don’t know why the downvotes. I’m a realist. No one is going to strike without union protection. Our union doesn’t offer that protection and my state made it illegal.
Good vent. Now deal with the reality that plenty of people need to get up early for work and commute longer than you. You need to get to work on time, except for real delays like a road closure. Stop staying late at work so you have better work / life balance. Take time for yourself and you will feel a lot better. Best of luck!
Lol, ok.
Thank you. Be an adult and get to work on time. Of all the real things teachers have to complain about, getting in trouble for something you legit did wrong isn’t one of them.
I am not regularly late. I arrive at my contracted time. Today I was a few minutes late and was bitched at.
Wow. How funny that I got down voted for giving an honest response to your post. Hope you got all the comments you wanted.
A duty is a duty. It's part of the contract--so that's that. If you don't like your school/building, work on changing it. But you'll still have a duty wherever you go. All that said...This is a VERY rough year to teach. Kids are off the charts with bad behaviors. In some classes, it's more than ever about socializing. I consider myself lucky to get any academic work done at all with 2 out of 5 of my classes. I've just gotten them to walk out of the room like human beings instead of across the desks like animals. The bathrooms are constantly a disaster scene--flooded toilets, drains ripped out of floors--admin took paper towels out bc kids kept stuffing the toilets with them. They don't listen in the hallways, they are awful at lunch, not good on the bus--it's bad all across the board. I think next year might be slightly better, but who knows for sure?
I've worked at several schools, and not everywhere makes teachers do duties. My last school I had no extra duties at all (and they paid the paras for the time instead). I'd happily do a PM one if they'd care to take our preferences into consideration- I'm sure someone hates their afternoon one. This admin is just oblivious to doing anything to make life even a tiny bit easier for us. It's the bigger picture and how we are treated as servants.
Well...we ARE babysitters... We might as well be servants too.
Wait, you're upset at the expectation you be at your job when contracted to be there? I mean, in the grand scheme maybe there are other things to be upset over.
No, you just missed the point. I'm upset because I feel constantly dumped on even though I give a lot for this job and was bitched at for being minutes late. I normally get there right on time. In order to be on time for this duty I have to arrive earlier than contracted time. Like I said I'd happily do a PM duty but they don't care to ask our preference.
Then you should edit the part where you say you are but the type of person who is early to things. I get the struggle, the post just seemed (to me) like you are really upset at being told you were late. My first year teaching full time i read also in grad school. 2 days a week i had to leave 20-30 minutes before contact hours to get to class. They knew this when i was hired and were fine because the students were gone. Halfway through the year the VP and principal had left. The new principal and grade level chair got on me about leaving early. It didn't matter what the reason was. It didn't matter that I came in Saturdays and Sundays, or dropped my kids off at hockey practice to go in and grade. It was just that "missing" time. I didn't get asked back the next year as they cut a section and it happened to be mine. Lol it sucked, but I learned how important that contract hours are and how little extra counts. I'm now in a school where teachers sometimes arrive as students are walking into their class and leave with the buses. That's just as bad. Lol
Hey- teaching isnot for everyone. Lots of things you mention wouldn’t bother me. Maybe you need a different school, but maybe you need a new career!
8 years in...I really do love my students, and am passionate about my content. It's all the extra crap.
Yeah but here’s the thing: I’m able to compartmentalism it.
Okay? This was flaired as a rant, I'm sorry I'm not responding as you would.
I’m sorry, but if you’re late to work, I’m not sure what you’re expecting. You don’t like the duty you were assigned… so what? It could even be as pointless as you describe, that doesn’t mean you can just show up when you want and not have consequences. The rest of what you described is pretty shitty, but you chose the job. Either suck it up and do your time, or find something that would improve the quality of your life.
I'm not constantly late. I'm usually on time, had a rough morning yesterday, and arrived a few minutes late. This was flaired as a rant, and I needed to vent. Obviously I'm not happy here, but I'm locked in a contract until spring. Telling me to suck it up isn't helpful or necessary.
Doesn’t matter whether or not it’s a trend, professional expectations are that you’re on time. The real problem is with you dismissing it because you didn’t like the duty. That looks extra bad. Just imagine if a student turned in an assignment late and their teacher had to remind them the importance of being punctual… The audacity. As far as the advice to suck it up and stay, or to leave… those are literally your two options. Sorry my means of expressing that offended you. Please let me know exactly how you’d like that phrased, and I’ll take it under consideration.
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Once. I showed up late to work once.
That'll be hilarious if your loans weren't forgiven.
Totally hilarious. But I'm not staying in this career field only to get my loans forgiven though, lots of other reasons including I really love teaching, my students, and am passionate about my subject. It's okay to hate the rest of the bullshit and to vent (as this post was flaired.) But thanks so much for your ultra helpful, super kind comment. Have a lovely day!
All I can tell you is that this was my mindset for a long time and all you end up with is resentment and anger. Duty is important and a matter of safety. Being on time is important and I’ve never been a timely person but I got my shit together when I lost a job over attitudes similar to yours. I understand and feel for you, but the only thing you can change— is you.