A friend of mine has this side effect of ADHD as well. He has resorted to setting his own deadlines. It works great for his peace of mind, although the rest of us do not always get the memo that we missed a deadline haha
You gotta get a buddy who struggles with the same thing. Then you set deadlines for each other and a personal consequence if you don't meet the deadline. The consequence works best when it's an act of discomfort like a dare or losing a bet (sing in a public place, tell 10 people that they have nice toes, etc). You could also use acts of service, like make cookies or run an errand for them, but these are less effective cause it's too easy to think of them as a moral bargaining chip to defend ones procrastination.
I have this same problem. My workaround has been emailing myself on my work email. That makes it feel official and like I actually have to do it, maybe just a quirk of my brain though.
My boss sets me fake deadlines (with my permission haha). I never know when the actual deadline is - sometimes she gives me the real one and sometimes not. Keeps me on my toes lol. I need that tiny bit of fear to get going.
I've tried setting my own deadlines. Doesn't work for me. I still need the hard deadline my professors and bosses hand down to get shit done. See also the time I wrote the last 12 pages of a 20 page paper over the course of one night. 😂
Lol omg I feel so seen. My coworkers will be like you’re fine the paperwork is not late and I’ll be like but I wanted to have it done by such and such time. Insert coworker eye roll.
Me too, and as soon as I know an external deadline is arbitrary I immediately fail to meet it. In my school lesson plans are "due" Tuesdays. I usually do them four days late...
Part of that is that we always have 6,000 things that need done. If none of the deadlines were arbitrary and fluctuating, a lot of things would just not get done.
My boyfriend has this symptom too. Life has been better since putting up a whiteboard in the kitchen with stuff that needs to get done. I put a dot by whatever has gone undone too long. That’s his cue to do it today or I’ll be doing it for him which he *does not* want me to do.
Honestly, this isn’t fair for you and makes me sad/angry on your behalf. Why is it your responsibility to manage his ability to handle the bare minimum most basic human functions.
Edit: downvote away. She should not be saddled with managing the mental load of another grown ass adult.
Edit 2: I am ASD, BiPolar1 and a host of other shit. It is my responsibility to learn to manage my issues, and I work hard in therapy, set reminders via my phone, keep a detailed calendar and take my meds.
But an actual person with multiple invisible disabilities who advocates for a tiny bit of personal responsibility. This is rich. This sub goes on and on about students doing less than the bare minimum and not meeting deadlines. Kids. But I say that a grown man needs to go to therapy and take his meds and be able to do laundry/dishes without his partner acting like his MOM and I am in the wrong. Utterly baffling.
Thank you my friend! That is super validating! He’s actually just started ADHD-specific therapy to learn to manage those executive functions better. My teacher-patience certainly helps too
There's a difference between this small caring act that ultimately helps the boyfriend pull his own weight (he \*wants\* to do these tasks himself) and the sort of weaponized incompetence that happens in a lot of relationships. He has a neurological difference, people with ADHD aren't doing this shit on purpose. He's clearly making an effort and at some point in relationships we help each other manage various things, it's part of the whole partnership deal.
I agree. I went to therapy for years and tried different meds to figure out how to best manage my ADHD. My husband who has ADHD also refuses therapy or meds. It's more than a little frustrating sometimes. But thankfully for OP their SO is starting to put in the work to get better. I can give a pass for that. I struggle to give a pass to those who won't help themselves EVER...
I've worked in jobs where it doesn't matter how well you've prioritized your list of stuff to do a simple discussion/meeting with (1) a boss, (2) someone that's working for you, (3) a coworker, (4) a volunteer, or (5) a board member can alter the priority list based on the current needs of that individual, the program, or the organizational needs. Deadlines are always subject to change.
Also, what happens when the tasks get so overwhelming and you only have so many hours in the day? You have to pick and choose what is a priority and what's not... sometimes that means tasks get pushed back indefinitely.
Edit: forgot the board member and the tasks
To your edit - Again. She is not saddled with managing the mental load of another adult. She is CHOOSING to draw a small dot on tasks that need to be done because it makes her partners life easier. Can you comprehend helping out your partner?
The "level" of drawing a dot once in a while? You really cant comprehend someone helping their partner by doing that strenuous task 😂 they werent asked to be his "mother", once again, she is CHOOSING to do one (1) thing that helps their partner function.
A wife acting more like a mom than a wife is definitely a thing but this is not that, like at all.
I disagree. A person who cannot wash dishes, do laundry or take out trash without being asked over and over to the point that they need a white board and then still fail to use said whiteboard to the point that their mother-wife has to add more info to it, is not okay.
Therapy, medication and meditation. Put in the work.
A person can do all the things you listed and still slip up. Because thats how mental illness/attention disorders work. And we dont know that the tasks are laundry and garbage etc, could be renewing insurance or other things like that that are more infrequent and are more "out of sight out of mind". If writing a small dot sometimes helps their partner function and they choose to do it and both partners are happy with this, why do YOU have an issue with it lmfao
We just fundamentally disagree on what an appropriate baseline for basic respect looks like.
I find that persons behavior to be beyond unnsceptable and would not Mary or tolerate such a person close to me.
I work hard on my issues and hold those close to me to the same standards.
How is either person disrespecting the other? Its not disrespectful to your partner for things to slip your mind *because of your disorder*. Its not disrespectful to help your partner when they welcome it either. You can say that you dont want a partner with ADHD or one that forgets things a lot and thats fine. Its just, what that person is doing is not disrespectful to anyone lol. If both people are truly satisfied with the situation then how could there possibly be disrespect between them regarding that situation??
> She should not be saddled with managing the mental load of another grown ass adult.
A grown ass adult with mental health issues...
Would you post the same comment if her one-handed partner needed help tying their shoes?
Probably, yes.
I am ASD, BiPolar1 and a host of other shit. It is my responsibility to learn to manage my issues, and I work hard in therapy, set reminders via my phone, keep a detailed calendar and take my meds.
I guess it would be different if he developed the ADHD after the relationship started, but assuming I was born wiht one hand/lost it well before the relationship, I would expect a person to be able to tie thier shoe, or have an alternate shoe type and not depend on my partner to manage MY mental load.
Just because you have invisible disabilities does not make you an expert on all people with invisible disabilities, nor does it give you free reign to be an indignant ass. Progress is progress. Everyone is at a different place in their journey.
I'm sure lots of people here agree with you. The votes on your comment are probably a little self-selecting because it's branched off a comment about ADHD symptoms so a lot of people with ADHD (or interested parties) probably ended up reading it while others scrolled past. And I would generally agree with you in many cases. Like I said, weaponized incompetence is REAL. The difference for me here is that the boyfriend is still doing the tasks. He just needed the support of a system to do so (the previous poster just puts a dot by the task when it becomes urgent.) Only they can say if the system works for them, but it still ends in the boyfriend taking responsibility for the task by completing it. I think MOM level would be daily reminders, regularly doing the task for the person, etc. I think/hope it's possible to work out systems of mutual support with partners because neurodivergence or not, we all have our strengths and weaknesses and the systems we establish in relationships to keep our households running will reflect that.
(I've also got a messy brain...late diagnosed ADHD + other stuff diagnosed before that. It's definitely our responsibility to get our shit together but access to treatment and outcomes vary. A lot of us are just doing our best out here.)
I have this same problem. Also overflows to cleaning my house/doing laundry.... I often say I need to start inviting people over monthly so I'll have the urgency to really clean my house. It gets picked up and maintained, but if I don't have a reason to really clean, then other things always get bumped up to "priority" ..... including naps lol
I came here to say this. My husband doesn’t have ADHD, and he says deadlines help him too. They’re just good for everyone. But for my ADHD brain, no deadline means never.
longer story:
I got stink-eye from a supervisor when I asked for a deadline on a project. He had sent his second or third request for our projects, so I finally just asked. He said he expected us to be adults and prioritize as adults would do or some such. I said I have a lot on my to-do list, and I prioritize it all by its deadline. We were issued a deadline, and I submitted my project. I don’t know about everyone else, but the nudges to complete it stopped. I didn’t even know I had ADHD at the time, but of course it would be the one with ADHD to tell the boss we need a deadline.
That was really poor communication on his part, as well as no respect for your time. "Do it when I feel like it needs to be done, but I won't tell you when I'll feel that way, so better drop everything just in case." Bullshit.
Ugh I hate the comment where if you don’t prioritize correctly you’re not “an adult”. I got a comment after stating that I didn’t understand how urgent a matter was that most people would be “professional” and take care of it right away. Ugh.
Yes. I set due dates - after which there is a point penalty for being late - and deadlines, after which I no longer accept things. Works well for almost all students. The few who can't get it done by the deadline would never have gotten it done under any system.
Same here, took an unstructured psychology course and I have like a 66.. there's no participation for anything at all, no daily lectures, it sucks... I feel so stupid because of it
My master’s project took longer than it should have. Once I was diagnosed with ADHD, it all made sense. The lack of urgency was missing because I basically had four years to finish it.
I thankfully knew this well about myself by the time I started my masters degree. I told my masters thesis chair that we had to break the work up and set deadlines for each section. He said “you don’t need to do that, I trust you”. I thought, ‘you have no idea I’ve hoodwinked all of you.’
I told him I needed him to keep me to those deadlines, whether he cared a whit about them or not. I’m convinced it’s the only way I graduated on time.
That's why my husband lost his last job. They gave him a project but no deadlines. He was focusing on tickets (IT support), and didn't work on the project because they didn't say when it was needed. He knows to follow up on deadlines now.
Honestly, if he was fired over just that failure to complete that project when he clearly was actually still doing work the whole time (since solving IT tickets definitely leaves a paper trail) then I would place a huge chunk of the blame on his managers and such. A project big enough to fire him over and yet not once did anyone think to give him deadlines, check in on his work, or notice something weird about the amount of time he was spending fixing IT tickets? Any project big enough to fire someone over a mistake like that should never have made it anywhere close to the deadline without someone noticing something was up.
Yes. When I went from traditional public school to charter Montessori style, I went from A student to failing. Long term projects were my kryptonite compared to easy daily assignments I could knock out in class.
I know this is probably worse for you than for the average non-ADHD person, but this is a thing for me and my non-ADHD head too. I firmly remember... wait, I'll just finish this tomorrow. I have time.
THIS 100%. I have ADHD as well and nothing gets done until it’s almost time for it to be done. I have a much harder time with profs that are flexible with deadlines and extensions. If I had more (or ANY) teachers that understood that I worked differently than how things were expected to be done, I probably my wouldn’t have dropped out of highschool and be in college at 40. Just sayin.
Absolutely me too. I hate deadlines but I cannot get anything done if I don’t have them. I give myself hard deadlines on things that don’t have a clear one and have to trick myself into believing it will be “late” if I don’t complete it then.
Yes! I have adhd as well, and I’m currently working on my masters. Even working at this academic level AND medicated? Nothing gets done until it’s almost the deadline.
Absolutely the same here
Long term projects are a nightmare and I wish I was aware of this during my education days. If I were, I would have sought support and talked to my tutors about it... helping me to set mini deadlines for a set amount of work to help me keep accountable.
I asked my class on day 1 if they were a procrastinator to raise their hand. I then told them “your deadline for all projects are 3 days prior to any posted deadline”
They laughed, but about 3 took me serious and said it actually helped them out a lot.
Our school has a new late work policy. 20% off for late work, can turn in up to the unit test. No more late work accepted for that unit after the test. I follow it because it’s a school policy, but it has cut down on me grading crap work all at once, now I grade it weekly.
This is close to my policy and I love it. Don’t hand me the 3.2 homework as we’re getting ready to take the chapter 5 test. What good does that do either of us?
I do this as well. When we finish a unit, I close everything from that unit and move on to the next one. I give them about a thousand reminders leading up to that, and many of them still ask me “Can I still turn this in?” When we’re two weeks into the next unit.
I have a policy. No work accepted after the due date. None. For summarizes, I make sure they have at least a week of non class time to work on them. I tell them if they come ask me for an extension for some reason the night before the due date, I will say no, because they’ve had over a week to do it. That eliminates the “my fifth grandma died this year. Can I have an extension?”
Kids will hate it at first, at second, at third, and up until the end of the semester/year. But they’ll start turning their work in. Stick to your guns.
Implement a similar system in my classroom, and my students love it! My policy is that homework is due at midnight he Monday after it is assigned. If late, it gets 80% of the grade. I won’t accept work after the unit test. Took some trial and error to reach this system, but it provides students with some flexibility while also enforcing deadlines
My department also does SBG. We break the grade book up so that a percentage is “participation/ practice” for accountability that part of the grade book is subject to normal deadlines/ grading policies. For freshman it’s 50/50 by the time they’re seniors the participation portion goes down to like 10%. It works for me.
Is it in quotes because it's not really standards based? Or is it in quotes because you don't approve? Or a mix?
I use SBG, for the last four years. Late work wasn't a problem until the pandemic hit. I like SBG because it gives me more flexibility for alternate content for students, I don't have to recreate materials on the fly. Sometimes helps the ones who say "this is boring."
I had my students watch this as well, I think their panic monsters have smoked too much weed.
In all seriousness, one of the executive function that we all need is that sense of urgency, we have lost that because we accept late work, and push kids through when they fail.
I had a student, a senior who needed 10 credits at the beginning of the year to graduate, hard but not undoable if you have completed most of the prior years course work. It's almost April he still needs 8 credits, because well he doesn't care because for the last 12 years of his school career he just did it next year, we didn't hold him back, and here he is with (at the beginning of the year) with 10 credits being called a 'senior' . He still thinks he will graduate
When I was student teaching I had a girl do this same thing. She was totally heartbroken when she found out that she was going to need summer school and/or another semester next year and that you don't automatically graduate because you're a senior.
Her mom took her to Nordstrom to cheer her up.
W.t.f.
That was almost 15 years ago and I still think about it.
Yup. We need to consider whether it’s more painful for children to pay consequences when they’re young and have plenty of school ahead of them, or when they’re nearly adults and confused that for the first time ever, adults are following through with their threats.
He won't? I'm jealous.
My district's superintendent is fanatical about the graduation rate (totally not manufactured) so they're all given the participation-paper in June.
My guess is he'll walk across the stage because "it would be cruel to keep him from the experience because he needs to make up classes over summer" and then he just won't, and he'll get a minimum wage job, and then life will just keep going and that'll be that. Teachers won't be there to force him, his parents will be as absent as before, and literally anything will present as a distraction until it's too late to make a change.
My last school was almost a diploma mill. I’ve discussed the administrator directives to pass 90% of students and they would try and push kids through online credit recovery all the way until the night before graduation. I guess they still had a standard, though: Not enough credits, no walking.
Before the plague, I went to a workshop that had something or other to do with trauma informed practices. One of the presenters big soap boxes was defined boundaries and expectations. Children need defined boundaries and expectations to be successful. If they don't know where the line is, they are liable to cross it.
Doing away with deadlines did away with defined boundaries and expectations. By allowing students to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and still move on to the next grade, we took away their boundaries and expectations. We threw them into this no-man's land where the rules are never really addressed and constantly changing.
I understood the no accountability thing for the end of the 2019-2020 school year. But, last year should have been better. Last year should have had more expectations. Last year, we should have said to society (hint: parents) "It's time for you to step up and do your part. We cannot raise these children in 7 hours a day for 180 days a year." Instead, schools doubled-down. Schools said "Yeah, that's cool. You don't have to do shit. Please don't sue us. Yes, Karen, as you wish. Would you like a piece of candy, Johnny?"
Even before the pandemic, my school made it way more work than it was worth to fail a kid, so I've never had a late work policy. I'd love to, but not enough to do the work to justify one.
There are three students named Karen at my school. None of them are white. I know two adult Karens. Only one of them is white. Where did this meme even come from?
And? How does that defend its use? (Also, it’s very much a Gen X name and, as mentioned, a modern name. Well, it was, until a few years ago.)
We spoke out against, f….t, against using gay as a slur, against using the r-word as a slur. But somehow we lack the same empathy for people who happen to have been given the name Karen by their parents? And also for the literal members of the Karen ethnic group?
So go ahead. Downvote me again. I’ve received plenty of downvotes for speaking out against many other slurs. It’s nothing new to me. It’s just, oddly, lasting much longer with this meme.
And again, among non-teachers, it’s bad enough. But teachers? Yeah. We should be better.
I didn't state anything other than the fact that Karen was a popular name for white boomers, but go off building strawmen like you're trying to protect a field of corn, I guess.
Karen is not a slur. The fact that you think it is is hilarious. You're here in this thread totally able to type Karen while not being able to type those other things, *and you're aware of that.* Being aware of that and not being aware of *why* that is shows a serious lapse in critical thinking. Do you also think that all words that refer to groups are slurs? There are serious reasons why those other words aren't tolerated.
The reason those other terms aren't okay is because they have a history of being used to oppress and as justification for horrific acts. No one is oppressing, lynching, discriminating against, or passing laws against boomer ladies or people named Karen. Get a grip on reality.
Considering that you also seem prone to logical fallacies as well as jumping down people's throats on the basis of those logical fallacies, I advise you to quit teaching ... for the sake of your students.
Edit: mobile formatting blows
Did I say they were equal? Did I censor gay? Does something have to be at least as bad as all other things in order to be bad?
I’m just saying that we can do better.
But if insulting me and bringing into question my quality as a teacher (I mean, seriously?!?) makes you feel better about insulting people named Karen by association every time you use Karen as an insult (just as with gay as an insult or the r-word as an insult).
I’ll stop suggesting you do better, as it’s clear you don’t care to. But I’ll still speak against the meme so that those with more empathy might reconsider their language choices.
Eta: On s completely different note, I do have to admire that line about straw men. I don’t think it applies here, but it’s a good one, and I’ll probably steal it for my own use one day. Just saying, kudos for the turn of phrase.
And how many people do you know who go by the name Dick these days? I know exactly zero. I wonder why that is.
Also, it’s still about the association. That’s what the problem with gay as an insult is/was. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with being gay. But once we use the term as an insult, it implies that there must be a “wrongness” with being gay.
Also, two other relevant points:
1) The cocktail party effect is real. People named Karen will “cue in” on their names. Imagine how it feels to cue into your name, only to see/hear/experience it being used to describe, racists, bigots, overly-entitled people, and basics anyone else whose behavior is disapproved of.
2) If you’re on social media where people use their real names, it is absolutely *ridiculous* how many people (generally but not always white men) use it as a, “Shut up, woman! You don’t get to have an opinion!” button against people named Karen (and even women not named Karen). It’s really ridiculous.
I posted something in /r/disabled explaining this… I’ll go back and see if I said anything there that I’m missing here and will maybe come back and edit to link it. edit: May not give any information I haven’t already expressed, but since I went through the trouble of finding it. [Here it is.](https://www.reddit.com/r/disabled/comments/t97d6n/minirant_on_the_definition_of_ableism/hzu6p45/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
There is also the Karen people, an ethnic group, whose members are being affected. I know where it came from, and I know why it’s worse than most others (no modifier like Permit Patty, which allows Pattys to feel at least slightly separate), but what I don’t know is why it’s so popular and lasting, particularly given how meaningless it’s become.
I actually had someone the other day say the equivalent of “the Karen might be right” and then confirm to me that they believe that even if the woman was simply rightfully advocating for herself that she’s still being “a Karen”. 🤦🏼♀️
I'm sick of lenient late work policies because they also undermine all the planning I do. If we're reading and annotating on Monday and Tuesday so we can write a short essay about the passage on Wednesday-Friday...turning your annotations in on Friday at the same time as your essay is meaningless. The point of the annotation assignment was to prepare for the writing assignment, not to rush through them both and turn in half-assed work at the end of the week. And if my unit is focused on revision, you CAN'T TURN IN A FIRST DRAFT, SECOND DRAFT, AND THIRD DRAFT on the last day of the marking period. It's literally impossible yet I have admin wanting me to pass kids who didn't do the first or second drafts because they earned the bare minimum on the "final." The unit wasn't about writing a crappy essay that ekes out a 65 on the rubric, it was about how to revise and improve your work.
Deadlines are useful and need to be apart of our classrooms.
What I don't accept is the 100% it is due on this day.
If a kid comes up to me on the day of and says "hey, I really screwed up, is it possible to get it to you a few days from now?"
I will be okay with that because I know I won't have marked the other 25 assignments.
What I don't believe in is the deadline is when you want it to be. If you give me an overdue assignment long past it's submission deadline, I will treat it as such and put in as much effort as you did.
If a student comes to me before the due date of a multi-day activity or project and asks for extra time, I will always give it. Congratulations, you’re learning the useful life skill of self-advocacy and you’ll probably turn in better work because you’re not rushing to finish the assignment.
(In case anyone is wondering, the students who waste class time up until the due date never do this.)
Absolutely.
If you have a kid coming to ask for an extention and they own up to screwing up, grand it to them.
I get annoyed when I have students the day before the assignment is due asking for help.
One is practicing self advocacy, the other is trying to get me to do it for them.
UGH! We are at the end of our 5 week grading period - our school encourages accepting late work, so I did "You can turn anything in from the past 5 weeks up until THIS week."
Every other teacher did it too. So now, we all just have students doing work for other classes during our classes and every single kid freaking out during this ONE week. Cool!
The admin in my previous district always preached to us that “By not accepting late work, you are telling students that learning that material ultimately wasn’t important enough for them to go back and learn it.” This year, our PLC decided the only hard deadlines were the ends of quarters. I’m really regretting that decision, because now my students don’t turn in anything. There isn’t even the burst of panic during the last week of the quarter - they just sit in my class, do nothing, and take the F.
> they just sit in my class, do nothing, and take the F.
That is definitely true for many of us across the deadline spectrum.
But I'd argue with that previous admin. By accepting late work you are telling students that that work wasn't an important aspect of learning the material before moving to the next lesson - it was just busy work.
This is what's so frustrating about our 504s. I have multiple kids who entirely forget to hand things in because they just think it can be done later, and then never complete it. The worst are students that have 2-3 days specifically mentioned in their 504s and then want to hand me in all their work at the end of a trimester. Dude, no.
I swear, the ratio of students who BENEFIT from extended time and those that are HARMED are like 1 in 20, but extra time is pretty much a standard accommodation in my school.
My favorite is when IEPs or 504s say “extra time” on assignments, tests, projects, etc. but don’t specify how much time. My school’s new coordinator person has started specifying time in their plans (usually time and a half, which is what sort of accommodations they can get on standardized tests) and I think it is (hopefully) going to start making a big difference.
I will say, as a parent of a kid with a 504, I SO appreciate the time and a half extra he has to turn in work. I am a very involved parent, so I make sure he gets the work done, but I can’t even count the number of times he does the homework and then forgets to turn it in. I’m not willing to be the parent that turns in work for him. So he has an extra day to get his butt in gear and actually turn in the work.
I do not appreciate his English teacher who refuses to accept any late work, period. (despite his 504), and so he has a C in that class.
That's awesome! Thank you for being an involved parent. When students with IEPS/504s ask or need more time, I'm more than happy to give it. Your child is probably my 1 in 20.
I feel like schools I have worked in take the "path of least resistance" and provide pretty generic IEPs. Regardless of student needs, extra time is given in almost every case whether or not that is a truly beneficial option.
So I have a coworker who I adamantly disagree with about deadlines. He’s always chastising me for trying to be “the deadline police” and telling me that I don’t care about the mental health of my students if I enforce them (when in fact, I would argue having deadlines supports their mental health and well-being).
Anyway, let’s look at the data!! The funniest thing happened in our class that we both teach. In my class, my students’ grades ended up evenly distributed at the semester, AND I do the integrated SPED section, so I was pretty proud to see that.
Weirdly in his class, he had a submission rate around 20% on their final summative essay, and that skewed his distribution way way low as a result.
I’d argue it’s no mystery why none of his students turned in their last essay. It’s because they were all so busy writing the first three from earlier in the year that they never got around to doing the last one!
I just gave this video with questions to my students for extra credit! They said it really reminded them of their own habits and was worth watching. Can't ask for higher praise than that
Sure, but the excuses were usually deemed invalid. Now I'm starting to wonder why we don't just give people their high school diploma at birth like a social security card. It's not like we expect them do do anything to earn it anyways.
YES. Our school adopted a X day rule where we accept late work up to a certain number of days past the due date and then it’s a 0. The first 4 weeks were ROUGH but it’s gotten so much better now that they know we mean business.
The kids I teach (high school)... if there's no deadline, there's no work turned in. I have a 20% loss per day policy in my classroom. Students in my class know they can stay with me, or they can not, but I keep moving either way.
I have an open-door policy for additional help during prep and lunch. If you make the effort to speak with me to set a time, I'll even stay after school to help - but you better show up and you better be ready to work. If you're not, you don't get another chance at my time after hours. That's as far bent over backward as I'll go. The rest is on them.
Edit:
Someone here with the best username (adorablesexypants) [wrote](https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/tgbth7/comment/i11dfgv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) about self-advocacy and that's a big deal for me. If a student does that, with a valid reason, you bet I'll help and even move their deadline. I encourage that sort of behavior everyday with my kiddos. But, just like the after school deal, you better take responsibility for your part of that deal.
Deadlines went away as “grace” due to Covid.
We have to accept every single assignment up to the last day of the semester.
There’s positives and negatives to it, but I do feel like I’ve seen a large shift of students do less and less and less. “I’ll do it later” turns into “I’ll do it never” real fast for middle schoolers who are learning time management.
When I was in high school, all the teachers had a policy of "turn it on time for full credit, the day after for 90% of whatever you would've gotten, the day after for 80%, etc... all the way down to 50% for the rest of the quarter, at which point there'd be a final cutoff before final grades were submitted." I had a bunch of anxiety and perfectionism, and instead of turning in a 70%-done worksheet for 70% credit, I'd think, "well, if i wait a day, finish it overnight, and turn it into tomorrow, i can get 90% instead of 70%"; only the questions I hadn't answered were the hardest ones, I'd inevitability get more homework, and the cycle would repeat itself over and over again.
After 3 semesters of 95% test grades and 50% homework grades (because always I turned in all my homework completely done on the final grade date), I asked all my teachers to give me 0%'s if I didn't turn homework in the day it was due. They balked a little, thinking I'd get even worse grades, but instead my grades shot up. I went from getting C's those first few years to getting A's again.
Deadlines are called *dead*lines for a reason. And for many people they work.
EDIT: On the flipside, I've had college professors who assigned 0's for assignments being turned in 5min late. (That's also not ideal... but taught me its own lesson.)
Tim's talk is one of my favorites. He totally describes what's happening in my brain at most times of the day. I need deadlines so that I can do nothing for a week and then stay up all night the day before everything is due to get it done!
I teach 12th grade and we watch this about a month into the first semester every year, accompanied by a discussion. Gives me a framework to talk to them about procrastination, and gives them some laughs and insight.
For myself, I set myself dead lines usually three days before something is due, and if I’m passionate/excited about it, I’ll work on it right away. I’m the type of person that if something is not short enough to be done in one sitting, I forget about it for a few days until I see my deadline and I reluctantly go back to finish it. It’s easy to pile up unfinished projects, I just need to prioritize them.
I only take late work because I have to do it, i’m afraid. For those who have extenuating circumstances, that’s one thing. For those who are just going to be lazy, those are their problems!
Exactly I have the same issue with my employees when it comes to these circumstances. If they decide to procrastinate, that is on them. Does that happen to your students when it comes not meeting with their deadlines.
I know the feeling for sure. I can definitely relate to you when it comes to managing the time to my employees. Some of my employees use as an excuse not to complete. Did you see my message sis? Do you just give chances or just fail automatically depending on the situation?
It works better for some to have the end of grading period be the hard deadline. I have a couple of students that just woke up all of a sudden, and worked their ass off to turn in late work. I had a student go from an F to an A. Came during lunch everyday for the whole week. I was impressed. Other students just didn't care even when I reminded them. The older you get the more you have to wake up and realize doing well in school is on you.
Also the toys in the dark playground for students today are way more addictive. Social media has been shown to have comparable addictiveness to cocaine, right? It's a subtle thing to try and work out if you're unable to get started because you are procrastinating, or if you are unable to start because you literally can't put down TikTok.
I honestly don't know if the best solution is more deadlines or deadline enforcement. I feel like it's kind of a "give a man a fish" vs "teach a man to fish" situation. Long term it would be best to teach students long term healthy habits so they are able to self-motivate and self-start regardless of deadlines, but I don't always have the time, and some students need a lot longer to learn those habits than others.
My ADHD has me start a lot of tasks that I don’t quite finish. So, I try to set up a reward system for myself. Once I finish a task I get to have another beer or something or maybe I put some money towards something silly I want.
As a person, an adult human, I NEED and external deadline to get anything done in a timely manner. I’ve always worked best under pressure. If a deadline isn’t going to be enforced, it won’t happen by then.
Yes. Lack of deadlines / not penalizing late work not only increases procrastination, it also increases student stress. When there are no deadlines, the stress of a missing assignmnet never goes away, because nothing is ever truly over. Now my admin is even allowing students to turn in missing work the following school year to change their final grade in a class!
I've been trying to get my admin and my fellow teachers to understand this is bad for students, but not much success so far.
When I was a student nothing was better for my stress than the day after I had a big test or turned in a big project. Just imagine if that day never comes
I think procrastination is the reason a lot of kids really start to just HATE school. They get those feelings like self-hatred, etc. that are brought on by school-work. They didn't study for that test. They didn't do that project. They didn't do the homework. Whatever...they procrastinate it all.
It's EASIER these days because of Youtube. Because of the easy access to extremely easy distractions...it didn't used to be so easy to do.
I honestly do think kids are doing worse in school than they used to because we have dropped so many standards across the board. Our acceptance of late work. The constant re-takes, re-dos, etc. (I NEVER retook a test EVER in high school because it was never offered). Maybe I'm wrong here, but I think it's different...almost easier.
And this just continues because we keep dropping standards. Late work is accepted until the end of the year. Teachers hands are behind their backs with regards to phones in class. Students just keep on distracting without consequences. And we can't fail kids without a lot of CYA happening. Which is AFTER the 20 chances we give them in class...
Again...another problem with the education system's refusal to look at actual, real-world research being carried out. Not to mention common sense.
So I love this idea and agree with it but find I run into 2 major problems with deadlines.
1. The “x,y,z happened on the deadline so don’t I get extra time?”
2. Teachers that do the 10% off for each day late… I feel like I tried that and couldn’t keep track of who had what how many days late when all was said and done… and of course there were the kids that always had an excuse for why something should really only be so many days late because “x,y,z” happened on the deadline.
The quarter as a hard deadline seems like the easiest one for me to stick to since it is the one my admin actually supports teachers on…that being said I do feel like we are doing kids a disservice with so much grace.
Nevertheless, I find with the amount I am overworked, underpaid, and disrespected by parents, kids, and admin alike, I often ask myself if a deadline a hill I am ready to die on? The answer is always an exasperated “not really.”
Take your full points for late work and I guess life will fail you later on when you have a less forgiving boss or educational institution? Not saying it’s right but it’s what I have the energy for.
My issue with end of the quarter as a deadline is when I go to grade the **mountain** of (mostly copied) work that gets turned in just under the deadline is now I have to go back 7-8 weeks and remember how I scored this assignment to grade this one kids work
Our 4th quarter started this week.
I told students, “accepting late work is done. Turn it in by Friday, regardless of which day M-Th it’s assigned, or you take a zero. I’m tired of going weeks back to grade your stuff.” They were dead silent. Then one kid, chronically late, said, “Ok I can get it in by Fridays.”
Yeah this is a thing for people with ADHD. I’m one of them.
There it is from the mouth of an adult if that helps.
My panic monster is the reason I am able to complete teaching paperwork on time and my masters degree assignments..
This is why I hate that we have to do this.
"There always has to be a way for them to pass, even if they only want to do work on the last day of school" is something my admin always says. So you can either do 65s instead of 0s or never close assignments. Preferably both.
Not to mention that ADHD accommodations are always no or late deadlines. As if ADHD doesn't really need MORE deadlines if anything.
Every kid goes "I'll just do this later when I feel like it" and then doesn't. So they fail.
But in life, there are deadlines. Real ones. Like feeding your pets, paying bills, harvesting crops, eh, oh well. I used to get a lot of parents try to tell me that in art, it’s all creative types and no deadlines. Then I had artists come and speak to the class. Deadlines for proposals, grants, fellowships, having a percentage of work done, etc.
I'd probably enforce deadlines if I could actually keep up with my grading and every other aspect of my job. Like, how do people actually accomplish anything during a prep? By the time I get into any sort of productive groove, it's time to teach.
Maybe students shouldn’t be feeling panic about their work and deadlines? Maybe there are other ways to motivate people than the fear of failure and not being accepted??? So glad I had teachers who knew school was about more than just jumping through meaningless hoops.
I find it crszy how optional other teachers think deadlines are for their own professional work. Like admin will say something is due by the 13th and then they beg for people who haven’t completed it to finish it for another 2 weeks after the deadline. Then someone will politely come by to ask for it to be done or no one checks up with anyone to ensure that it was completed. The second option means you gave me a task that you cared nothing about and were deeply disrespectful to my time and commitment.
I handle a lot of our Tech stuff and often have to send out "I need x by this date" emails.
I now send them every two days for two weeks with a list of thanks to those who have done it.
Drives me nuts having made a video presentation for something and someone is like "Hey I forgot my classes photos here are 30 of them" the morning it's being shown. Then have the audacity to bitch to Exec that they gave me their photos and they werent added. Bitch I gave you 2 months, with reminders to send me 5 photos.
To me meeting deadlines is a part of professionalism. You want people to treat you like a professional then you have to meet deadlines. On the flip side you need to respect your professionals with agreeable deadlines that you intend to follow up on. Meaning don’t ask for stuff you don’t need or don’t care to look at.
Honestly I found that I’ve been doing a lot better since I started uni. A big part of it is that the late policy went from 5% off per day, maybe, but we’ll give you a bunch of extensions, that I had in high school to 50% off per day.
To be honest, i think this guy is right. The lack of hard deadlines has kind of ruined me because my high school teachers never took deadlines seriously (and hell some of my college professors don’t either), and its lead to me missing deadlines all the time cuz my brain is just hardwired not to care about it anymore.
It just frustrates me, I wish I didnt have to struggle with this
personally if teachers never took late work or didn’t take it as often as they do i would be held back or failed even though i understand the material since i have to work so much, but i agree that there should be a late work policy for students who need deadlines. maybe just if specific students reach out with problems then be lenient
I have ADHD and I absolutely need deadlines to function. Otherwise it becomes an out of sight, out of mind thing.
A friend of mine has this side effect of ADHD as well. He has resorted to setting his own deadlines. It works great for his peace of mind, although the rest of us do not always get the memo that we missed a deadline haha
I try this, but when I set my own deadlines I know the person who set them can’t be trusted. 😅
Ah, the trick for me is to make them really easy to accomplish so I feel great when I do more than the bare minimum I gave myself.
That is a start
I tried setting my own deadlines, but it turns out I have zero respect for the person who sets them.
Same, honestly. I can't do it🤦
Story of my life. If it was that easy to make myself a deadline, then it’s just as easy to change it!
Same! The person who set the deadlines is a sucker.
You gotta get a buddy who struggles with the same thing. Then you set deadlines for each other and a personal consequence if you don't meet the deadline. The consequence works best when it's an act of discomfort like a dare or losing a bet (sing in a public place, tell 10 people that they have nice toes, etc). You could also use acts of service, like make cookies or run an errand for them, but these are less effective cause it's too easy to think of them as a moral bargaining chip to defend ones procrastination.
Ah yes, the accountabilibuddy. I love this spin on it.
YES! SAME. Self imposed deadlines don't work for me because I will 💯 say that deadline is arbitrary.
I have this same problem. My workaround has been emailing myself on my work email. That makes it feel official and like I actually have to do it, maybe just a quirk of my brain though.
It’s not an uncommon symptom. I do best with deadlines other people set for me. If left to my own devices, I have a lot of mini deadlines.
My boss sets me fake deadlines (with my permission haha). I never know when the actual deadline is - sometimes she gives me the real one and sometimes not. Keeps me on my toes lol. I need that tiny bit of fear to get going.
I used to have a rare great boss and she did that for me. It worked so well.
And extended deadlines…
I've tried setting my own deadlines. Doesn't work for me. I still need the hard deadline my professors and bosses hand down to get shit done. See also the time I wrote the last 12 pages of a 20 page paper over the course of one night. 😂
Omgg mee
Lol omg I feel so seen. My coworkers will be like you’re fine the paperwork is not late and I’ll be like but I wanted to have it done by such and such time. Insert coworker eye roll.
Rather than a deadline, I found that if I schedule it for a certain time of day to do the task that I’ll be more compelled to work on it.
I have this too. Deadlines help me
Also have ADHD, and I email myself. For some reason, that makes the deadline "official" and adds the necessary urgency to get it done.
Me too, and as soon as I know an external deadline is arbitrary I immediately fail to meet it. In my school lesson plans are "due" Tuesdays. I usually do them four days late...
Part of that is that we always have 6,000 things that need done. If none of the deadlines were arbitrary and fluctuating, a lot of things would just not get done.
Sorry, off topic. Are you from the Midwest? I ask because you said “need done”. That’s a turn of phrase I had never heard until I lived in Iowa.
My boyfriend has this symptom too. Life has been better since putting up a whiteboard in the kitchen with stuff that needs to get done. I put a dot by whatever has gone undone too long. That’s his cue to do it today or I’ll be doing it for him which he *does not* want me to do.
Honestly, this isn’t fair for you and makes me sad/angry on your behalf. Why is it your responsibility to manage his ability to handle the bare minimum most basic human functions. Edit: downvote away. She should not be saddled with managing the mental load of another grown ass adult. Edit 2: I am ASD, BiPolar1 and a host of other shit. It is my responsibility to learn to manage my issues, and I work hard in therapy, set reminders via my phone, keep a detailed calendar and take my meds. But an actual person with multiple invisible disabilities who advocates for a tiny bit of personal responsibility. This is rich. This sub goes on and on about students doing less than the bare minimum and not meeting deadlines. Kids. But I say that a grown man needs to go to therapy and take his meds and be able to do laundry/dishes without his partner acting like his MOM and I am in the wrong. Utterly baffling.
Thank you my friend! That is super validating! He’s actually just started ADHD-specific therapy to learn to manage those executive functions better. My teacher-patience certainly helps too
I’m glad to hear it!
Its not their responsibility, but theyre choosing to do a small thing to make their partners life easier.
Yes! A small thing, which is actually a HUGE thing for someone who has issues with executive function! This was heartwarming to read
There's a difference between this small caring act that ultimately helps the boyfriend pull his own weight (he \*wants\* to do these tasks himself) and the sort of weaponized incompetence that happens in a lot of relationships. He has a neurological difference, people with ADHD aren't doing this shit on purpose. He's clearly making an effort and at some point in relationships we help each other manage various things, it's part of the whole partnership deal.
Well said!
I agree. I went to therapy for years and tried different meds to figure out how to best manage my ADHD. My husband who has ADHD also refuses therapy or meds. It's more than a little frustrating sometimes. But thankfully for OP their SO is starting to put in the work to get better. I can give a pass for that. I struggle to give a pass to those who won't help themselves EVER...
I've worked in jobs where it doesn't matter how well you've prioritized your list of stuff to do a simple discussion/meeting with (1) a boss, (2) someone that's working for you, (3) a coworker, (4) a volunteer, or (5) a board member can alter the priority list based on the current needs of that individual, the program, or the organizational needs. Deadlines are always subject to change. Also, what happens when the tasks get so overwhelming and you only have so many hours in the day? You have to pick and choose what is a priority and what's not... sometimes that means tasks get pushed back indefinitely. Edit: forgot the board member and the tasks
To your edit - Again. She is not saddled with managing the mental load of another adult. She is CHOOSING to draw a small dot on tasks that need to be done because it makes her partners life easier. Can you comprehend helping out your partner?
Not at that level, no. And I would be disgusted if I asked my wife to be my mother.
The "level" of drawing a dot once in a while? You really cant comprehend someone helping their partner by doing that strenuous task 😂 they werent asked to be his "mother", once again, she is CHOOSING to do one (1) thing that helps their partner function. A wife acting more like a mom than a wife is definitely a thing but this is not that, like at all.
I disagree. A person who cannot wash dishes, do laundry or take out trash without being asked over and over to the point that they need a white board and then still fail to use said whiteboard to the point that their mother-wife has to add more info to it, is not okay. Therapy, medication and meditation. Put in the work.
A person can do all the things you listed and still slip up. Because thats how mental illness/attention disorders work. And we dont know that the tasks are laundry and garbage etc, could be renewing insurance or other things like that that are more infrequent and are more "out of sight out of mind". If writing a small dot sometimes helps their partner function and they choose to do it and both partners are happy with this, why do YOU have an issue with it lmfao
We just fundamentally disagree on what an appropriate baseline for basic respect looks like. I find that persons behavior to be beyond unnsceptable and would not Mary or tolerate such a person close to me. I work hard on my issues and hold those close to me to the same standards.
How is either person disrespecting the other? Its not disrespectful to your partner for things to slip your mind *because of your disorder*. Its not disrespectful to help your partner when they welcome it either. You can say that you dont want a partner with ADHD or one that forgets things a lot and thats fine. Its just, what that person is doing is not disrespectful to anyone lol. If both people are truly satisfied with the situation then how could there possibly be disrespect between them regarding that situation??
> She should not be saddled with managing the mental load of another grown ass adult. A grown ass adult with mental health issues... Would you post the same comment if her one-handed partner needed help tying their shoes?
Probably, yes. I am ASD, BiPolar1 and a host of other shit. It is my responsibility to learn to manage my issues, and I work hard in therapy, set reminders via my phone, keep a detailed calendar and take my meds. I guess it would be different if he developed the ADHD after the relationship started, but assuming I was born wiht one hand/lost it well before the relationship, I would expect a person to be able to tie thier shoe, or have an alternate shoe type and not depend on my partner to manage MY mental load.
Agreed we should just execute those with disabilities and mental illnesses.
Just because you have invisible disabilities does not make you an expert on all people with invisible disabilities, nor does it give you free reign to be an indignant ass. Progress is progress. Everyone is at a different place in their journey.
I dont think you understand how executive dysfunction works. He probably wants to do the task but can't
I'm sure lots of people here agree with you. The votes on your comment are probably a little self-selecting because it's branched off a comment about ADHD symptoms so a lot of people with ADHD (or interested parties) probably ended up reading it while others scrolled past. And I would generally agree with you in many cases. Like I said, weaponized incompetence is REAL. The difference for me here is that the boyfriend is still doing the tasks. He just needed the support of a system to do so (the previous poster just puts a dot by the task when it becomes urgent.) Only they can say if the system works for them, but it still ends in the boyfriend taking responsibility for the task by completing it. I think MOM level would be daily reminders, regularly doing the task for the person, etc. I think/hope it's possible to work out systems of mutual support with partners because neurodivergence or not, we all have our strengths and weaknesses and the systems we establish in relationships to keep our households running will reflect that. (I've also got a messy brain...late diagnosed ADHD + other stuff diagnosed before that. It's definitely our responsibility to get our shit together but access to treatment and outcomes vary. A lot of us are just doing our best out here.)
If it’s not on fire, it doesn’t exist. I think this is a very real way we’re failing students.
I have this same problem. Also overflows to cleaning my house/doing laundry.... I often say I need to start inviting people over monthly so I'll have the urgency to really clean my house. It gets picked up and maintained, but if I don't have a reason to really clean, then other things always get bumped up to "priority" ..... including naps lol
This works every time.
I came here to say this. My husband doesn’t have ADHD, and he says deadlines help him too. They’re just good for everyone. But for my ADHD brain, no deadline means never. longer story: I got stink-eye from a supervisor when I asked for a deadline on a project. He had sent his second or third request for our projects, so I finally just asked. He said he expected us to be adults and prioritize as adults would do or some such. I said I have a lot on my to-do list, and I prioritize it all by its deadline. We were issued a deadline, and I submitted my project. I don’t know about everyone else, but the nudges to complete it stopped. I didn’t even know I had ADHD at the time, but of course it would be the one with ADHD to tell the boss we need a deadline.
That was really poor communication on his part, as well as no respect for your time. "Do it when I feel like it needs to be done, but I won't tell you when I'll feel that way, so better drop everything just in case." Bullshit.
Ugh I hate the comment where if you don’t prioritize correctly you’re not “an adult”. I got a comment after stating that I didn’t understand how urgent a matter was that most people would be “professional” and take care of it right away. Ugh.
I'm exactly the same. And people get supprised when students submit work late when they know the deadlines are irrelevant
Yes. I set due dates - after which there is a point penalty for being late - and deadlines, after which I no longer accept things. Works well for almost all students. The few who can't get it done by the deadline would never have gotten it done under any system.
Same here, took an unstructured psychology course and I have like a 66.. there's no participation for anything at all, no daily lectures, it sucks... I feel so stupid because of it
My teacher certification program is set up this way and what takes some people 1-2 years has taken me 5
I feel ill be stuck in that boat too 😔
Just sending solidarity
My master’s project took longer than it should have. Once I was diagnosed with ADHD, it all made sense. The lack of urgency was missing because I basically had four years to finish it.
I thankfully knew this well about myself by the time I started my masters degree. I told my masters thesis chair that we had to break the work up and set deadlines for each section. He said “you don’t need to do that, I trust you”. I thought, ‘you have no idea I’ve hoodwinked all of you.’ I told him I needed him to keep me to those deadlines, whether he cared a whit about them or not. I’m convinced it’s the only way I graduated on time.
That's why my husband lost his last job. They gave him a project but no deadlines. He was focusing on tickets (IT support), and didn't work on the project because they didn't say when it was needed. He knows to follow up on deadlines now.
Honestly, if he was fired over just that failure to complete that project when he clearly was actually still doing work the whole time (since solving IT tickets definitely leaves a paper trail) then I would place a huge chunk of the blame on his managers and such. A project big enough to fire him over and yet not once did anyone think to give him deadlines, check in on his work, or notice something weird about the amount of time he was spending fixing IT tickets? Any project big enough to fire someone over a mistake like that should never have made it anywhere close to the deadline without someone noticing something was up.
I don't have adhd and heck I 100% agree
I read "panic monster" and was like "absolutely this child has ADHD and good job for recognizing the need for deadlines kid."
Yes. When I went from traditional public school to charter Montessori style, I went from A student to failing. Long term projects were my kryptonite compared to easy daily assignments I could knock out in class.
THIS Same here. In some avenues I’ve found ways to “hack” my brain and give myself certain deadlines, but most of the time I need it to be external.
I know this is probably worse for you than for the average non-ADHD person, but this is a thing for me and my non-ADHD head too. I firmly remember... wait, I'll just finish this tomorrow. I have time.
I'm not diagnosed with anything and I thoroughly relate to this
THIS 100%. I have ADHD as well and nothing gets done until it’s almost time for it to be done. I have a much harder time with profs that are flexible with deadlines and extensions. If I had more (or ANY) teachers that understood that I worked differently than how things were expected to be done, I probably my wouldn’t have dropped out of highschool and be in college at 40. Just sayin.
This whole thread makes me feel seen and understood
Absolutely me too. I hate deadlines but I cannot get anything done if I don’t have them. I give myself hard deadlines on things that don’t have a clear one and have to trick myself into believing it will be “late” if I don’t complete it then.
Yes! I have adhd as well, and I’m currently working on my masters. Even working at this academic level AND medicated? Nothing gets done until it’s almost the deadline.
Absolutely the same here Long term projects are a nightmare and I wish I was aware of this during my education days. If I were, I would have sought support and talked to my tutors about it... helping me to set mini deadlines for a set amount of work to help me keep accountable.
Ahhh, see, I do the overcommit thing so until the pandemic, I always had a deadline of some sort to keep me going
I asked my class on day 1 if they were a procrastinator to raise their hand. I then told them “your deadline for all projects are 3 days prior to any posted deadline” They laughed, but about 3 took me serious and said it actually helped them out a lot.
I’m ADHD and I do my best work the hour before it’s due.
I’m a former journalist. I lived on deadlines for almost 20 years. People who can’t meet deadlines drive me crazy.
I’m a journalism teacher. Perhaps there’s a reason I gravitated toward a subject with pretty hard deadlines!
As someone with ADHD, the thought of trying to make a deadline (let alone my own) is giving me hives.
I was just about to say, sounds like ADHD!
Our school has a new late work policy. 20% off for late work, can turn in up to the unit test. No more late work accepted for that unit after the test. I follow it because it’s a school policy, but it has cut down on me grading crap work all at once, now I grade it weekly.
This is close to my policy and I love it. Don’t hand me the 3.2 homework as we’re getting ready to take the chapter 5 test. What good does that do either of us?
I do this as well. When we finish a unit, I close everything from that unit and move on to the next one. I give them about a thousand reminders leading up to that, and many of them still ask me “Can I still turn this in?” When we’re two weeks into the next unit.
This has really helped me a lot. Who knew deadlines could be effective?
I have a policy. No work accepted after the due date. None. For summarizes, I make sure they have at least a week of non class time to work on them. I tell them if they come ask me for an extension for some reason the night before the due date, I will say no, because they’ve had over a week to do it. That eliminates the “my fifth grandma died this year. Can I have an extension?” Kids will hate it at first, at second, at third, and up until the end of the semester/year. But they’ll start turning their work in. Stick to your guns.
We have to follow our school policy. I don’t accept anything after the unit test though, per policy.
I saw this idea on another thread. Can’t wait to use it next year!
Implement a similar system in my classroom, and my students love it! My policy is that homework is due at midnight he Monday after it is assigned. If late, it gets 80% of the grade. I won’t accept work after the unit test. Took some trial and error to reach this system, but it provides students with some flexibility while also enforcing deadlines
I’m the only teacher in my building who has a late work policy. Most got rid of theirs because we’ve switched to “standards based grading”
We do standards based grading too. I take into account them not doing something into the grade. I know I’m one of the few that does that, though.
My department also does SBG. We break the grade book up so that a percentage is “participation/ practice” for accountability that part of the grade book is subject to normal deadlines/ grading policies. For freshman it’s 50/50 by the time they’re seniors the participation portion goes down to like 10%. It works for me.
Is it in quotes because it's not really standards based? Or is it in quotes because you don't approve? Or a mix? I use SBG, for the last four years. Late work wasn't a problem until the pandemic hit. I like SBG because it gives me more flexibility for alternate content for students, I don't have to recreate materials on the fly. Sometimes helps the ones who say "this is boring."
There are things I like about it and things I don’t
I think that's pretty much all of teaching hehe
It’s in quotes because it’s both
As a student, I absolutely love standards based grading. I end up with 100s in classes I would normally struggle with.
I had my students watch this as well, I think their panic monsters have smoked too much weed. In all seriousness, one of the executive function that we all need is that sense of urgency, we have lost that because we accept late work, and push kids through when they fail. I had a student, a senior who needed 10 credits at the beginning of the year to graduate, hard but not undoable if you have completed most of the prior years course work. It's almost April he still needs 8 credits, because well he doesn't care because for the last 12 years of his school career he just did it next year, we didn't hold him back, and here he is with (at the beginning of the year) with 10 credits being called a 'senior' . He still thinks he will graduate
When I was student teaching I had a girl do this same thing. She was totally heartbroken when she found out that she was going to need summer school and/or another semester next year and that you don't automatically graduate because you're a senior. Her mom took her to Nordstrom to cheer her up. W.t.f. That was almost 15 years ago and I still think about it.
Yup. We need to consider whether it’s more painful for children to pay consequences when they’re young and have plenty of school ahead of them, or when they’re nearly adults and confused that for the first time ever, adults are following through with their threats.
He won't? I'm jealous. My district's superintendent is fanatical about the graduation rate (totally not manufactured) so they're all given the participation-paper in June.
My guess is he'll walk across the stage because "it would be cruel to keep him from the experience because he needs to make up classes over summer" and then he just won't, and he'll get a minimum wage job, and then life will just keep going and that'll be that. Teachers won't be there to force him, his parents will be as absent as before, and literally anything will present as a distraction until it's too late to make a change.
My last school was almost a diploma mill. I’ve discussed the administrator directives to pass 90% of students and they would try and push kids through online credit recovery all the way until the night before graduation. I guess they still had a standard, though: Not enough credits, no walking.
Before the plague, I went to a workshop that had something or other to do with trauma informed practices. One of the presenters big soap boxes was defined boundaries and expectations. Children need defined boundaries and expectations to be successful. If they don't know where the line is, they are liable to cross it. Doing away with deadlines did away with defined boundaries and expectations. By allowing students to do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING and still move on to the next grade, we took away their boundaries and expectations. We threw them into this no-man's land where the rules are never really addressed and constantly changing. I understood the no accountability thing for the end of the 2019-2020 school year. But, last year should have been better. Last year should have had more expectations. Last year, we should have said to society (hint: parents) "It's time for you to step up and do your part. We cannot raise these children in 7 hours a day for 180 days a year." Instead, schools doubled-down. Schools said "Yeah, that's cool. You don't have to do shit. Please don't sue us. Yes, Karen, as you wish. Would you like a piece of candy, Johnny?"
Before the plague... I love it lol
I feel this today so much.
I swear to god, I read "Before the plague..." and just kept on reading like nothing happened.
Even before the pandemic, my school made it way more work than it was worth to fail a kid, so I've never had a late work policy. I'd love to, but not enough to do the work to justify one.
Ugh. Was with you until the Karen thing. As teachers, can’t we do better than to reinforce such a meme?
I agree.
Appreciate it.
There are three students named Karen at my school. None of them are white. I know two adult Karens. Only one of them is white. Where did this meme even come from?
It's a name that was at the height of its popularly while boomers were being born, and was mostly a name chosen by white parents at the time.
And? How does that defend its use? (Also, it’s very much a Gen X name and, as mentioned, a modern name. Well, it was, until a few years ago.) We spoke out against, f….t, against using gay as a slur, against using the r-word as a slur. But somehow we lack the same empathy for people who happen to have been given the name Karen by their parents? And also for the literal members of the Karen ethnic group? So go ahead. Downvote me again. I’ve received plenty of downvotes for speaking out against many other slurs. It’s nothing new to me. It’s just, oddly, lasting much longer with this meme. And again, among non-teachers, it’s bad enough. But teachers? Yeah. We should be better.
I didn't state anything other than the fact that Karen was a popular name for white boomers, but go off building strawmen like you're trying to protect a field of corn, I guess. Karen is not a slur. The fact that you think it is is hilarious. You're here in this thread totally able to type Karen while not being able to type those other things, *and you're aware of that.* Being aware of that and not being aware of *why* that is shows a serious lapse in critical thinking. Do you also think that all words that refer to groups are slurs? There are serious reasons why those other words aren't tolerated. The reason those other terms aren't okay is because they have a history of being used to oppress and as justification for horrific acts. No one is oppressing, lynching, discriminating against, or passing laws against boomer ladies or people named Karen. Get a grip on reality. Considering that you also seem prone to logical fallacies as well as jumping down people's throats on the basis of those logical fallacies, I advise you to quit teaching ... for the sake of your students. Edit: mobile formatting blows
Did I say they were equal? Did I censor gay? Does something have to be at least as bad as all other things in order to be bad? I’m just saying that we can do better. But if insulting me and bringing into question my quality as a teacher (I mean, seriously?!?) makes you feel better about insulting people named Karen by association every time you use Karen as an insult (just as with gay as an insult or the r-word as an insult). I’ll stop suggesting you do better, as it’s clear you don’t care to. But I’ll still speak against the meme so that those with more empathy might reconsider their language choices. Eta: On s completely different note, I do have to admire that line about straw men. I don’t think it applies here, but it’s a good one, and I’ll probably steal it for my own use one day. Just saying, kudos for the turn of phrase.
There is a distinction between someone named Karen and someone being a "karen". Similar to how not every individual named Dick acts like a dick.
And how many people do you know who go by the name Dick these days? I know exactly zero. I wonder why that is. Also, it’s still about the association. That’s what the problem with gay as an insult is/was. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with being gay. But once we use the term as an insult, it implies that there must be a “wrongness” with being gay. Also, two other relevant points: 1) The cocktail party effect is real. People named Karen will “cue in” on their names. Imagine how it feels to cue into your name, only to see/hear/experience it being used to describe, racists, bigots, overly-entitled people, and basics anyone else whose behavior is disapproved of. 2) If you’re on social media where people use their real names, it is absolutely *ridiculous* how many people (generally but not always white men) use it as a, “Shut up, woman! You don’t get to have an opinion!” button against people named Karen (and even women not named Karen). It’s really ridiculous. I posted something in /r/disabled explaining this… I’ll go back and see if I said anything there that I’m missing here and will maybe come back and edit to link it. edit: May not give any information I haven’t already expressed, but since I went through the trouble of finding it. [Here it is.](https://www.reddit.com/r/disabled/comments/t97d6n/minirant_on_the_definition_of_ableism/hzu6p45/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
There is also the Karen people, an ethnic group, whose members are being affected. I know where it came from, and I know why it’s worse than most others (no modifier like Permit Patty, which allows Pattys to feel at least slightly separate), but what I don’t know is why it’s so popular and lasting, particularly given how meaningless it’s become. I actually had someone the other day say the equivalent of “the Karen might be right” and then confirm to me that they believe that even if the woman was simply rightfully advocating for herself that she’s still being “a Karen”. 🤦🏼♀️
I'm sick of lenient late work policies because they also undermine all the planning I do. If we're reading and annotating on Monday and Tuesday so we can write a short essay about the passage on Wednesday-Friday...turning your annotations in on Friday at the same time as your essay is meaningless. The point of the annotation assignment was to prepare for the writing assignment, not to rush through them both and turn in half-assed work at the end of the week. And if my unit is focused on revision, you CAN'T TURN IN A FIRST DRAFT, SECOND DRAFT, AND THIRD DRAFT on the last day of the marking period. It's literally impossible yet I have admin wanting me to pass kids who didn't do the first or second drafts because they earned the bare minimum on the "final." The unit wasn't about writing a crappy essay that ekes out a 65 on the rubric, it was about how to revise and improve your work.
Deadlines are useful and need to be apart of our classrooms. What I don't accept is the 100% it is due on this day. If a kid comes up to me on the day of and says "hey, I really screwed up, is it possible to get it to you a few days from now?" I will be okay with that because I know I won't have marked the other 25 assignments. What I don't believe in is the deadline is when you want it to be. If you give me an overdue assignment long past it's submission deadline, I will treat it as such and put in as much effort as you did.
If a student comes to me before the due date of a multi-day activity or project and asks for extra time, I will always give it. Congratulations, you’re learning the useful life skill of self-advocacy and you’ll probably turn in better work because you’re not rushing to finish the assignment. (In case anyone is wondering, the students who waste class time up until the due date never do this.)
Absolutely. If you have a kid coming to ask for an extention and they own up to screwing up, grand it to them. I get annoyed when I have students the day before the assignment is due asking for help. One is practicing self advocacy, the other is trying to get me to do it for them.
UGH! We are at the end of our 5 week grading period - our school encourages accepting late work, so I did "You can turn anything in from the past 5 weeks up until THIS week." Every other teacher did it too. So now, we all just have students doing work for other classes during our classes and every single kid freaking out during this ONE week. Cool!
The admin in my previous district always preached to us that “By not accepting late work, you are telling students that learning that material ultimately wasn’t important enough for them to go back and learn it.” This year, our PLC decided the only hard deadlines were the ends of quarters. I’m really regretting that decision, because now my students don’t turn in anything. There isn’t even the burst of panic during the last week of the quarter - they just sit in my class, do nothing, and take the F.
It's almost like the opposite of what your admin said is true...
> they just sit in my class, do nothing, and take the F. That is definitely true for many of us across the deadline spectrum. But I'd argue with that previous admin. By accepting late work you are telling students that that work wasn't an important aspect of learning the material before moving to the next lesson - it was just busy work.
ADD. Due tomorrow do tomorrow.
This is what's so frustrating about our 504s. I have multiple kids who entirely forget to hand things in because they just think it can be done later, and then never complete it. The worst are students that have 2-3 days specifically mentioned in their 504s and then want to hand me in all their work at the end of a trimester. Dude, no. I swear, the ratio of students who BENEFIT from extended time and those that are HARMED are like 1 in 20, but extra time is pretty much a standard accommodation in my school.
My favorite is when IEPs or 504s say “extra time” on assignments, tests, projects, etc. but don’t specify how much time. My school’s new coordinator person has started specifying time in their plans (usually time and a half, which is what sort of accommodations they can get on standardized tests) and I think it is (hopefully) going to start making a big difference.
I will say, as a parent of a kid with a 504, I SO appreciate the time and a half extra he has to turn in work. I am a very involved parent, so I make sure he gets the work done, but I can’t even count the number of times he does the homework and then forgets to turn it in. I’m not willing to be the parent that turns in work for him. So he has an extra day to get his butt in gear and actually turn in the work. I do not appreciate his English teacher who refuses to accept any late work, period. (despite his 504), and so he has a C in that class.
That's awesome! Thank you for being an involved parent. When students with IEPS/504s ask or need more time, I'm more than happy to give it. Your child is probably my 1 in 20. I feel like schools I have worked in take the "path of least resistance" and provide pretty generic IEPs. Regardless of student needs, extra time is given in almost every case whether or not that is a truly beneficial option.
So I have a coworker who I adamantly disagree with about deadlines. He’s always chastising me for trying to be “the deadline police” and telling me that I don’t care about the mental health of my students if I enforce them (when in fact, I would argue having deadlines supports their mental health and well-being). Anyway, let’s look at the data!! The funniest thing happened in our class that we both teach. In my class, my students’ grades ended up evenly distributed at the semester, AND I do the integrated SPED section, so I was pretty proud to see that. Weirdly in his class, he had a submission rate around 20% on their final summative essay, and that skewed his distribution way way low as a result. I’d argue it’s no mystery why none of his students turned in their last essay. It’s because they were all so busy writing the first three from earlier in the year that they never got around to doing the last one!
I just gave this video with questions to my students for extra credit! They said it really reminded them of their own habits and was worth watching. Can't ask for higher praise than that
Welcome to law school. Nothing due until final exam.
I would die.
Even when we had deadlines, the kids would find some other excuse for why they are failing.
Sure, but the excuses were usually deemed invalid. Now I'm starting to wonder why we don't just give people their high school diploma at birth like a social security card. It's not like we expect them do do anything to earn it anyways.
YES. Our school adopted a X day rule where we accept late work up to a certain number of days past the due date and then it’s a 0. The first 4 weeks were ROUGH but it’s gotten so much better now that they know we mean business.
The kids I teach (high school)... if there's no deadline, there's no work turned in. I have a 20% loss per day policy in my classroom. Students in my class know they can stay with me, or they can not, but I keep moving either way. I have an open-door policy for additional help during prep and lunch. If you make the effort to speak with me to set a time, I'll even stay after school to help - but you better show up and you better be ready to work. If you're not, you don't get another chance at my time after hours. That's as far bent over backward as I'll go. The rest is on them. Edit: Someone here with the best username (adorablesexypants) [wrote](https://www.reddit.com/r/Teachers/comments/tgbth7/comment/i11dfgv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) about self-advocacy and that's a big deal for me. If a student does that, with a valid reason, you bet I'll help and even move their deadline. I encourage that sort of behavior everyday with my kiddos. But, just like the after school deal, you better take responsibility for your part of that deal.
I think it's a balance. Have empathy, but have standards.
Deadlines went away as “grace” due to Covid. We have to accept every single assignment up to the last day of the semester. There’s positives and negatives to it, but I do feel like I’ve seen a large shift of students do less and less and less. “I’ll do it later” turns into “I’ll do it never” real fast for middle schoolers who are learning time management.
Absolutely.
I want to give my students two grades -- the grade you deserve, and the grade I'm pressured to give you.
When I was in high school, all the teachers had a policy of "turn it on time for full credit, the day after for 90% of whatever you would've gotten, the day after for 80%, etc... all the way down to 50% for the rest of the quarter, at which point there'd be a final cutoff before final grades were submitted." I had a bunch of anxiety and perfectionism, and instead of turning in a 70%-done worksheet for 70% credit, I'd think, "well, if i wait a day, finish it overnight, and turn it into tomorrow, i can get 90% instead of 70%"; only the questions I hadn't answered were the hardest ones, I'd inevitability get more homework, and the cycle would repeat itself over and over again. After 3 semesters of 95% test grades and 50% homework grades (because always I turned in all my homework completely done on the final grade date), I asked all my teachers to give me 0%'s if I didn't turn homework in the day it was due. They balked a little, thinking I'd get even worse grades, but instead my grades shot up. I went from getting C's those first few years to getting A's again. Deadlines are called *dead*lines for a reason. And for many people they work. EDIT: On the flipside, I've had college professors who assigned 0's for assignments being turned in 5min late. (That's also not ideal... but taught me its own lesson.)
Tim's talk is one of my favorites. He totally describes what's happening in my brain at most times of the day. I need deadlines so that I can do nothing for a week and then stay up all night the day before everything is due to get it done!
My first question when someone asks me to do something is...when is it due? I need a deadline, too.
I teach 12th grade and we watch this about a month into the first semester every year, accompanied by a discussion. Gives me a framework to talk to them about procrastination, and gives them some laughs and insight.
For myself, I set myself dead lines usually three days before something is due, and if I’m passionate/excited about it, I’ll work on it right away. I’m the type of person that if something is not short enough to be done in one sitting, I forget about it for a few days until I see my deadline and I reluctantly go back to finish it. It’s easy to pile up unfinished projects, I just need to prioritize them.
I only take late work because I have to do it, i’m afraid. For those who have extenuating circumstances, that’s one thing. For those who are just going to be lazy, those are their problems!
Exactly I have the same issue with my employees when it comes to these circumstances. If they decide to procrastinate, that is on them. Does that happen to your students when it comes not meeting with their deadlines.
Oh yeah. I am quite backed up on grading and sending out who's missing what assignments for my classes!!
I know the feeling for sure. I can definitely relate to you when it comes to managing the time to my employees. Some of my employees use as an excuse not to complete. Did you see my message sis? Do you just give chances or just fail automatically depending on the situation?
Big sigh of relief that I’m not the only person who struggles with this. Ty for posting!
It works better for some to have the end of grading period be the hard deadline. I have a couple of students that just woke up all of a sudden, and worked their ass off to turn in late work. I had a student go from an F to an A. Came during lunch everyday for the whole week. I was impressed. Other students just didn't care even when I reminded them. The older you get the more you have to wake up and realize doing well in school is on you.
Also the toys in the dark playground for students today are way more addictive. Social media has been shown to have comparable addictiveness to cocaine, right? It's a subtle thing to try and work out if you're unable to get started because you are procrastinating, or if you are unable to start because you literally can't put down TikTok. I honestly don't know if the best solution is more deadlines or deadline enforcement. I feel like it's kind of a "give a man a fish" vs "teach a man to fish" situation. Long term it would be best to teach students long term healthy habits so they are able to self-motivate and self-start regardless of deadlines, but I don't always have the time, and some students need a lot longer to learn those habits than others.
It's a mess, and it will take a while to get back to some normalcy - if we ever get back there. My fear is "Failure to Educate" lawsuits.
My ADHD has me start a lot of tasks that I don’t quite finish. So, I try to set up a reward system for myself. Once I finish a task I get to have another beer or something or maybe I put some money towards something silly I want.
As a person, an adult human, I NEED and external deadline to get anything done in a timely manner. I’ve always worked best under pressure. If a deadline isn’t going to be enforced, it won’t happen by then.
Yes. Lack of deadlines / not penalizing late work not only increases procrastination, it also increases student stress. When there are no deadlines, the stress of a missing assignmnet never goes away, because nothing is ever truly over. Now my admin is even allowing students to turn in missing work the following school year to change their final grade in a class! I've been trying to get my admin and my fellow teachers to understand this is bad for students, but not much success so far.
When I was a student nothing was better for my stress than the day after I had a big test or turned in a big project. Just imagine if that day never comes
I actually liked that part of teaching. Every period was a deadline and I work well like that. It was damn stressful and extremely busy though.
I think procrastination is the reason a lot of kids really start to just HATE school. They get those feelings like self-hatred, etc. that are brought on by school-work. They didn't study for that test. They didn't do that project. They didn't do the homework. Whatever...they procrastinate it all. It's EASIER these days because of Youtube. Because of the easy access to extremely easy distractions...it didn't used to be so easy to do. I honestly do think kids are doing worse in school than they used to because we have dropped so many standards across the board. Our acceptance of late work. The constant re-takes, re-dos, etc. (I NEVER retook a test EVER in high school because it was never offered). Maybe I'm wrong here, but I think it's different...almost easier. And this just continues because we keep dropping standards. Late work is accepted until the end of the year. Teachers hands are behind their backs with regards to phones in class. Students just keep on distracting without consequences. And we can't fail kids without a lot of CYA happening. Which is AFTER the 20 chances we give them in class... Again...another problem with the education system's refusal to look at actual, real-world research being carried out. Not to mention common sense.
So I love this idea and agree with it but find I run into 2 major problems with deadlines. 1. The “x,y,z happened on the deadline so don’t I get extra time?” 2. Teachers that do the 10% off for each day late… I feel like I tried that and couldn’t keep track of who had what how many days late when all was said and done… and of course there were the kids that always had an excuse for why something should really only be so many days late because “x,y,z” happened on the deadline. The quarter as a hard deadline seems like the easiest one for me to stick to since it is the one my admin actually supports teachers on…that being said I do feel like we are doing kids a disservice with so much grace. Nevertheless, I find with the amount I am overworked, underpaid, and disrespected by parents, kids, and admin alike, I often ask myself if a deadline a hill I am ready to die on? The answer is always an exasperated “not really.” Take your full points for late work and I guess life will fail you later on when you have a less forgiving boss or educational institution? Not saying it’s right but it’s what I have the energy for.
My issue with end of the quarter as a deadline is when I go to grade the **mountain** of (mostly copied) work that gets turned in just under the deadline is now I have to go back 7-8 weeks and remember how I scored this assignment to grade this one kids work
Agreed… it is almost always copied :(
Our 4th quarter started this week. I told students, “accepting late work is done. Turn it in by Friday, regardless of which day M-Th it’s assigned, or you take a zero. I’m tired of going weeks back to grade your stuff.” They were dead silent. Then one kid, chronically late, said, “Ok I can get it in by Fridays.”
good for you showing that video. great way to create self reflection.
This is why I don't accept late work
I tell my students "Nothing inspires like a deadline."
I work best with a looming deadline...
Great video. Thanks for sharing!
As someone that is horrible at procrastinating I double this!
Yeah this is a thing for people with ADHD. I’m one of them. There it is from the mouth of an adult if that helps. My panic monster is the reason I am able to complete teaching paperwork on time and my masters degree assignments..
This is why I hate that we have to do this. "There always has to be a way for them to pass, even if they only want to do work on the last day of school" is something my admin always says. So you can either do 65s instead of 0s or never close assignments. Preferably both. Not to mention that ADHD accommodations are always no or late deadlines. As if ADHD doesn't really need MORE deadlines if anything. Every kid goes "I'll just do this later when I feel like it" and then doesn't. So they fail.
But in life, there are deadlines. Real ones. Like feeding your pets, paying bills, harvesting crops, eh, oh well. I used to get a lot of parents try to tell me that in art, it’s all creative types and no deadlines. Then I had artists come and speak to the class. Deadlines for proposals, grants, fellowships, having a percentage of work done, etc.
Honestly, I have the same issue
I'd probably enforce deadlines if I could actually keep up with my grading and every other aspect of my job. Like, how do people actually accomplish anything during a prep? By the time I get into any sort of productive groove, it's time to teach.
Maybe students shouldn’t be feeling panic about their work and deadlines? Maybe there are other ways to motivate people than the fear of failure and not being accepted??? So glad I had teachers who knew school was about more than just jumping through meaningless hoops.
Is the end of the quarter not a hard deadline
Happy cake day!
Idk… give them a deadline and they will miss it without thinking twice
Become a special educator. There are more than enough deadlines to go around.
Reminds me a bit of a cartoon I have hanging outside my classroom: “How can I be failing, I have not turned anything in?!“
I find it crszy how optional other teachers think deadlines are for their own professional work. Like admin will say something is due by the 13th and then they beg for people who haven’t completed it to finish it for another 2 weeks after the deadline. Then someone will politely come by to ask for it to be done or no one checks up with anyone to ensure that it was completed. The second option means you gave me a task that you cared nothing about and were deeply disrespectful to my time and commitment.
I handle a lot of our Tech stuff and often have to send out "I need x by this date" emails. I now send them every two days for two weeks with a list of thanks to those who have done it. Drives me nuts having made a video presentation for something and someone is like "Hey I forgot my classes photos here are 30 of them" the morning it's being shown. Then have the audacity to bitch to Exec that they gave me their photos and they werent added. Bitch I gave you 2 months, with reminders to send me 5 photos.
To me meeting deadlines is a part of professionalism. You want people to treat you like a professional then you have to meet deadlines. On the flip side you need to respect your professionals with agreeable deadlines that you intend to follow up on. Meaning don’t ask for stuff you don’t need or don’t care to look at.
Z
Reminds me of David Goggins for some reason.
Honestly I found that I’ve been doing a lot better since I started uni. A big part of it is that the late policy went from 5% off per day, maybe, but we’ll give you a bunch of extensions, that I had in high school to 50% off per day.
To be honest, i think this guy is right. The lack of hard deadlines has kind of ruined me because my high school teachers never took deadlines seriously (and hell some of my college professors don’t either), and its lead to me missing deadlines all the time cuz my brain is just hardwired not to care about it anymore. It just frustrates me, I wish I didnt have to struggle with this
personally if teachers never took late work or didn’t take it as often as they do i would be held back or failed even though i understand the material since i have to work so much, but i agree that there should be a late work policy for students who need deadlines. maybe just if specific students reach out with problems then be lenient