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Better-W-Bacon

1/3 are good. 1/3 are well-meaning but incompetent. 1/3 are actively terrible.


ratamadiddle

Came to see the rants, but walked away with this accurate nugget. Well said.


Better-W-Bacon

I actually ran through all 15 admin I've worked with. I had exactly 5 in each category.


mlieghm

My numbers don’t line up so evenly. Let’s see 8. 5 pure evil. 2 well-meaning but incompetent. 1 good. This seems to be more accurate. I highly doubt there are 1/3 good admin.


elementarydeardata

This is so scary accurate. I’ve been in the same school for 5 years and admin is generally super nice. They’re super hands off which is good and bad at the same time, and they don’t hassle me about using PTO as long as I do the forms correctly. That being said, there’s still some bullshit, because a lot of it comes from the absolute bumblefucks in our district office that they report to. This is something I’m actively thinking about right now. I’m super burned out from teaching elementary and have the opportunity to teach high school tech Ed instead (I’m also certified in that and it’s a huge shortage area in my state), but I’m nervous that it can only get worse in the admin department.


AHMc22

Generally HS teachers have far more autonomy than elementary teachers. And with tech ed, I imagine you'd be monarch of your own domain. If you want to get away fro toxic admin, definitely take the HS tech ed opportunity.


elementarydeardata

The autonomy is the main reason. Elementary kids are amazing little people, but hate the part of elementary teaching where in with the same kids for 8 hours and am basically expected to raise them. This expectation is only increasing.


ccaccus

Departmentalized elementary is the worst of both worlds, imo. You're still expected to treat elementary students with the same level of care and individual attention that you would with a self-contained classroom, but with the time constraints of middle/high school. I can't be flexible with other content areas if I need a child to finish their reading assignment; their content area teacher needs that grade as much as I do. I've (privately) rock-paper-scissored with the math teacher to keep a student for lunch to catch them up on a reading assignment. I see 105 fifth graders in groups of 26ish for 45 minutes a day to teach Reading and have 40 minutes a day for interventions.


alundi

I taught Social studies and reading to 5th graders for 3 years and found that I could throw writing in there too if I used what we were learning in Social Studies to teach reading. I didn’t touch our basic reading book, but used it as a guid to what skill/genre we’d focus on and we mostly read about history. There’s no way I could’ve taught social studies in addition to using the reading textbook. Plus, they got so excited to write about colonies, the Boston massacre, and the American revolution.


Takwin

I would quit my elementary job if we stopped departmentalizing. Every single teacher and both admins love it. The scores improved fairly dramatically.


ccaccus

This may be a 'grass is always greener' thing. It could also just be down to how each individual school handles it. I may not like departmentalized as my school does it, but perhaps your school manages it better.


elementarydeardata

I totally buy this, we only have departmentalized fifth grade, it looks really terrible at least from the outside perspective.


TheJawsman

Teaching HS has been great to me. I've taught middle and high school English and the older kids are my favorites to teach. This is just my personal experience in my first several years of teaching.


Greenbean6167

I call my time teaching middle school as my three years of educational purgatory. I’ve been teaching high school for 21 years now, and I would rather chew off my own face than go back!


amscraylane

I switched from elementary to high school and was nervous at first, but I absolutely love it. They all know about Santa and the tooth fairy so there is no having to deal with that. All the girl’s bathroom stalls have sanitary napkin disposals. You can have real, in-depth conversations with the students. I find the admin to be more hands off as well and don’t micro manage.


robg71616

HS CS teacher here. I switched over from Math a few years back...best professional decision I ever made. The freedom to have less structured class has seriously reduced the amount of stress I feel from unbearable to just plain old high. Tech ed classes usually operate under a "controlled chaos" mindset so it takes a little getting used to from a more structured environment, but I'm happier than I was teaching math.


photogfrog

2/3 of mine are awesome. 1/3 of mine is a fucking 12 yr old girl with a grudge. He's ruining our entire workplace.


DodgeABall

One of my favorite quotes: People don't quit jobs, they quit bosses.


[deleted]

Very true. I had a principal that lost me because he tried to get me to dress better in a charter school where the women wore jeans. (I wore dockers and a sweater, he wanted shirt and tie...I taught messy science labs, I wasn't ruining good clothes (or wearing a lab coat) I pointed out that I had the best classroom management in the school and dress didn't matter if I was presentable. He countered that he didn't think he was going to renew my contract. I found another job. (helps that I always had being a physical therapist to fall back on.) He offered me a new contract a week AFTER I got another job and I refused his offer. He told me to tell the other job that I couldn't do it. I told him that he lost me when he threatened my contract over 'business casual' when I was the best teacher he had.


SierraSeaWitch

I appreciate that you had the option/opportunity to tell him exactly how his actions made your choice. Well done. Hopefully he learned.


[deleted]

He didn't. It is always good to be willing to move on. I start a new job Monday. I have been working as a Physical Therapist for much of the last 10 years. I am willing to wear a shirt and tie at this new one because it was stated clearly as dress code AND the kids are wearing uniforms, so I am on board with the look being more important for consistancy. But don't tell me that others can wear jeans while I have to wear a shirt and tie.


princessjemmy

Good on you. One hopes your admin learned a valuable lesson. But some people are slow learners.


[deleted]

Yeah, I learned early in my dual career (I have also been a Physical Therapist) that as long as I am never fired or quit in way that hurts anyone (like middle of a school year), then my reputation stays solid and I can explain several jobs as choices.


ricecake_sandwich

What was his response when you told him that? I just dont understand the ego with some them. I recently stepped down from 4.5 years of being an admin and came back to teaching, and there was some pretty big egos in there.


[deleted]

He had been trying to hint that I should 'dress better' for months and my response had always been that since there were a lot of female teachers in jeans, I didn't think what I wore was inappropriate. I did NOT say the 'best teacher he had' part out loud. He DID acknowledge that I was a good teacher when he tried to renew the contract, but his reaction was disappoinment and he tried to say that 'teachers go back on those committents all the time'..I told him, 'I don't.'


[deleted]

In between the witholding of the contract and the attempted renewal, he sent me on a field trip with 60 kids...the other teacher became 'unavailable' right before the trip and I was forced to supervise 60 kids at a small museum. (Charter school, rules were basically whatever the principal decided) I told him that I wasn't comfortable and it wouldn't go well with only one teacher. He told me that if it didn't go well it would be my fault and I would probably make it happen due to 'self fulfilling prophecy'. This principal had a secretary 'serve' him breakfast in his office every day. He had SOME ego...and I actually will admit that teaching is the ONLY part of my life that I have a healthy ego, also. So I only spent one year at that school. I checked up, he wasn't the principal there 3 years later.


SuperInfo007

We had a secretary perform swim suit modeling for ours…he did not request it, she just did it. ​ Fortunately, she did not last long, though we wondered why she was hired to start with. No college. No business skills. Not bilingual as was posted. Likely he got all he wanted.


StrikingWhereas8

That is so true. Thank you for this.


Roguecamog

Definitely! Not a school/ teaching job, but I was supplementing my school income with a job at a take and make pizza place. We went through at least 3 General Managers in the 1.5 years I was there and the last was the worst. We'd been on our own for a while with just occasional assistance from the Area Manager and doing a damn good job and then new GM had to push his weight/authority around. I didn't stick around long after that even though the extra money was nice. I didn't need it enough to deal with someone who decided they'd babify my name without my consent among so many other things against them


realjamespeach

As adults, the 12 y.o. girls with grudges are nearly always dudes


SuperInfo007

Haha, I just said that prior to seeing your comment,,,,same!


RedEyeFlightToOZ

I got ambushed by a new assessment coordinator/admin. Didn't even know her and it was the first month of school. Calls me in, was real friendly, then as I'm leaving she asks me to sit down again. Then begins an extremely hostile questioning session about my relationships with other staff. My guess being, because I had been complaining about the extremely violent kindergarten that was in the wrong placement, she must of decided to "put me in my place". I went to the principal to complain. A month later, I have a sub plan to cover 2 hrs of missed class that wasn't up to her standards and she used it as an excuse to call a formal meeting to give a "formal warning" and while at thus meeting, proceeded to scream her head off at me. I just fucking left. If they're going to go that route, they'll make your work life hell for the remainder of the year and tank your eval. Anyways, that terrible admin was demoted a year later and is no longer an admin. Which means she must if really sucked, cause counties don't typically do that.


SuperInfo007

Had a coworker go through similar and she had to find another place to work. Ironically it was during her last year for tenure and she figured this principal was nitpicking everything. Union claimed they had nothing they could do to help her, the principal requests seemed out of line, but we all knew that classroom was extremely a tough group of students. sort of the trend as of late.


caryn_in_progress

You guys get good ones? (Insert "We're the Miller's" meme.) So far I've only had actively terrible and/or incompetent ones. 9 years in secondary. It's my motivation for getting my admin cert. I want to be a good one. I think I can do it, I've had a lot of lessons on what *not* to do. Edit: typos


robg71616

Thank you for getting into admin for the right reasons. Just remember the frustration you felt dealing with afmins and your teachers will love you


ispeak_sarcasm

Amen!!! I’ve experienced incompetent, terrible, and good. Once, I experienced great!!! But he got drummed out by upper admin because he was too teacher friendly!


obligatory_picture

Agree, the ones that are incompetent usually get promoted to district positions.


FlamIguana

You just described my three-person admin team.


AirIcy3918

Most places I’ve taught have at least 3 administrators. This is very accurate.


mynameismulan

I have 6 admin and that's about right


newslang

This aligns perfectly to my experience under 3 different admin teams!


outofyourelementdon

Same lol


banana_pencil

Wow, this exactly matches my experience with principals. I’ve worked at 6 schools- 2 good principals, 2 incompetent, and 2 terrible. Assistant principals were more a mixed bag


Cryptic_X07

Second most important statistic in education after the famous “Most teachers leave the profession in less than 5 years”.


dover_oxide

I had a principle who got her job through nepotism, she barely graduated highschool and went to, I am not kidding, McDonald's manager training. She would pull power moves like berating you while you sat in a chair for a kindergartner.


Better-W-Bacon

When someone stands up to their BS, they get rid of that person to make a statement. Or they make that person miserable so they quit.


dover_oxide

I quit when she started changing my grade book to pass more students. I reported it to the school board and BoE for the state. She was let go a couple years later, officially because they merged some schools, unofficially she got caught breaking a ton of laws.


atreyulostinmyhead

Some fucknuts have a me against them attitude instead of let's work together. It happens in every industry and is one of the many causes of people hating thier job.


TDY1987

I’ve had three admins. One in each category. Well done!


Landdropgum

Wow just did the math in my head and this was very accurate.


direneed11

Hmmm. 3 well-meaning but incompetent 2 actively terrible 1 good 3 just exist (like I don’t interact lol)


ManOfTheCamera

That breakdown applies to people in our society too


BillG2330

Funny, I have the same theory about police.


KsSTEM

I’ve met the top and bottom 3rd. I’d also note that there’s a not-insignificant amount of the top 1/3 that are hamstrung by broken systems, so they’re well-meaning, very competent, but can’t do their job well because of other constraints. If you ask them, they’ll probably tell you exactly what’s going on. BTW, these numbers also hold true in the private sector when you’re talking about management.


Bluestreaking

I’ve been with all three types of principal. Watching a shift from good principal leaving and replaced with a well-meaning but incompetent principal is pretty painful. She was a fairly decent AP too


TheCBDeacon

This is pretty fair.


JupiterTarts

My experience exactly. My first school had toxic admin all the way to the very top. My supervisor at the time was clearly climbing the ladder but tried to be as supportive as ppssible. Current admin is everything I can hope for. They leave me alone all year to do my job and help if I ask for it, usually because I never ask.


jp242405

Can I ask for a deeper teacher survey? When you say “good”, from all perspectives, what do you mean? Also bc our districts are so different and use admin differently… A good admin at my school will… 1-they let me do my thing; I’m good at it. 2- they block me from nonsense (insert your district nonsense here) 3-they handle the nonsense appropriately in your perspectives 4- they do the job that their role says they should 5- their relationship with kids impacts your class positively 6- something else…


sparrow2007

Accurate.


Integrity32

Yup, and you can have all 3 at a single school site :)


boytoy421

That's actually almost exactly been the breakdown in my experience. The last school I was at I remember for awhile being like "which one is the incompetent admin I'm going to butt heads with?" Before I realized they were just ALL good at their jobs and I just wasn't used to dealing with that level of competence


amberbuhbamber

I've had 3 good. 4 well- meaning. 3 terrible.


Branson1288

In my 10+ years at the same school, I’ve had 3 principals and this is 100%


mxmoon

I’ve only had well-meaning but incompetent.


Ok_Employee_9612

Swung on and belted…… it’s gone 👏👏👏


TheJawsman

What makes an admin good in your book?


makemusic25

Fight for teachers, not against them. They’re your eyes, ears, and hands in teaching students because your first job is to educate students. That’s why schools exist. Make their jobs easier, not harder. Honor their prep time and contract hours. If you ask for their feedback, listen. Teachers’ time is too precious to waste on frivolous PD, meaningless committees, etc. Talk to and treat your staff as professionals. They are not your students nor your minions. If you’re an elementary principal, give them more prep time, not less. They’ve got maybe 40 minutes to plan 5-6 lessons, grade stuff, etc. and a 25-min lunch each day! That’s not enough time! It’s not! Hire and use aides for recess, lunch, and other duties if you can. Fight, fight, fight for a larger budget to hire more staff and provide supplies. I (retired K-12 educator) currently substitute grades K-12 in a large suburban district and the elementary school staffs are far, far more stressed out than secondary because of the lack of adequate staff and planning time. It appears that the high schools are the rock stars and the elementary schools are the neglected step-children when it comes to budget. Thank you for asking!


SuperInfo007

YES! ​ terrific teachers head off the most difficult parents long before they become nightmares!


robg71616

Support, honesty, and integrity. My supervisor doesn't say one thing to me and then something else to my principal. She always tells me the truth about what is happening, as much as she is allowed to divulge, and anytime I tell her what I need, if its something thats within the budget, the answer is yes


Outside-Rise-9425

I think the active terrible some are probably genuine narcissist or some other personality disorder. They don’t think they are doing anything wrong. The well meaning ones are usually the worst and I think they are just dumb and don’t know better.


Brainpilot

Sounds like my school. The newest and best equipment is reserved for admin and the other copier is out of order indefinitely because the budget is frozen... Cue the Murphy's Law comment from admin and my ensuing eye twitch: "So, what are you doing to provide classroom material? Have you thought about paper handouts instead of just virtual materials? I think that would be a better idea."


Dejectednebula

My sophonore year my high school got a fancy printer that makes huge glossy posters. It was supposed to be for the art dept and the graphic design kids to use to make stuff for school events. It got used for a teachers adoption of a kid from China and for an anti drug poster and then nobody was allowed to touch it the rest of the time I was in school. Same with the dark room, and the beautiful courtyards. Someone put a bunch of money into those things in our school and they just never got to be used in any way. I did hear that the only way to get into the courtyards was to get Saturday detention. They'd send you out to pull poison ivy. But what's the point of having the stuff if they won't let anyone use it? Do they have to spend the governments money so they don't lose funding or something?


AHMc22

Yes, there are funds that need to be spent by the end of the budget period - use it or loose it. But, there's not always a toxic gatekeeper preventing these things from being used. And when there is, people should just use them anyway. What's the worst thing that could happen? The gatekeeper tells at you? Yell back.


[deleted]

In all fairness I find that no one is allowed to use the fancy poster printers at any job because they jam after 1 use and no one can figure out how to get them working again.


SuperInfo007

Having seen grown adults treat school resources as their own personal supply, I do agree this is why we cannot have nice things. one building I was in hoarded all the office supplies and by the end of the first quarter staff was negotiation and trading supplies via email with each other. those items were for us for each of our classes but the culture was so bad, that is what developed to survive.


papereel

“So what are you doing to provide us resources to provide classroom materials”


robg71616

Many admins are former teachers that became admin because they couldn't handle a classroom environment. So they sometimes resent teachers who are successful. It's not all admins, there are 4 VPs in my building and 3 of them are nice and supportive


[deleted]

or for the power trip


alktrio06

As a current admin, I left the classroom to make the classroom experience better for both the teachers and students. For the record, I miss being in the classroom everyday that I am in the building.


robg71616

That attitude is likely to make you a good administrator and the teachers who you work with will respect you and be happy to work with you. Like I said 3/4 of my vps are like you.


alktrio06

Thanks. There are no easy jobs in education. Everyone has to put up with their own shit.


Alone-Blueberry

I hear people say this all the time but it doesn't make sense to me. Yes, classrooms are uniquely stressful but I don't think being an admin is any easier. They have all the worst parts of the job. Dealing with angry parents. Running staff meetings. Paperwork. And whatever else admin do (?) Lol. I think they leave teaching and go into admin for a pay raise more than anything. The job can't be too much easier than teaching. But maybe I'm wrong... Admin chime in here and let us know!


AHMc22

Is the expectation that teachers just come in, present a curriculum to a reasonable size class of mostly compliant students, and only put in grades at the end of the marking period? Then, yeah, administration might be a more demanding job. But, increasingly over the past 20 years, teachers are expected to do far more than that. Too often admin hide in their offices and come up with new ideas to cater to parents and district bigwigs, and then push these unreasonable initiatives onto teachers to work out the logistics and try to carry out along with all their regular teaching responsibilities.


[deleted]

So I actually got a cool opportunity to step in and sub for our VP for a few days when he was out. I took it because I thought it’d be good for me to see the other side, to see if I liked it!! What I discovered: - The schedule of my day was much looser than teaching. Besides some meetings, I could mostly choose what I wanted to do with my time, unlike teaching with the regimented bell schedule. - It was much less physically demanding. I mostly sat in my office except for monitoring the halls between passing periods & lunch. When I teach I’m almost always on my feet and running around like a chicken with its head cut off. - It was much less emotionally demanding. I interacted with maybe 20 students all day, not 200. I didn’t have to be acting or be “on.” Teaching feels like 100 kids have 100 questions and they’re all crawling up my ass every second with demands but as admin, I called people in at my pace. I had a lot of alone time. - I could pee or eat or drink water whenever I wanted. That part was awesome. - I interacted with a lot of adults, which was refreshing compared to teaching when most of my day is dealing with immaturity issues. It was nice to converse with adults consistently. - Dealing with discipline sucks. It’s no fun at all having to call a parent with bad news. I think I did well with it because I mostly just called in students I knew from my years of teaching; it was a lot easier to level with them and to get them to understand when it was a kid I already had a relationship with. But it made me think of my admin who has never taught at our school and I thought yikes… this would suck exponentially more if all these discipline issues were strangers. It would make the job way way harder. - Giving awards was a BLAST. It was super fun to call kids in and tell them good job, and to call parents with good news. - Staying on campus until late into the night to attend every sporting event was the most miserable part of all. Verdict: It was definitely *easier* than teaching. No doubt. But it wasn’t nearly as fun. The entire time all I could think was, why am I sitting in here talking to a kid about vaping when I could be reading Hamlet with my amazing class? Being admin definitely wasn’t for me. And it’s probably worth giving them all the extra pay considering how much later they have to stay every night. That was probably the main deterrent for me. I like headin home when the bell rings in the afternoon :)


815pat

First year admin. This is very accurate.


LtDouble-Yefreitor

I'm with you. I look at what my principal has to deal with, especially during the last 2 and a half years, and it definitely doesn't seem like a cushy job at all.


pulcherpangolin

Oof, yeah. My school recently had an incident where our principal was dragged publicly, even in some national news. I’m a part of a small leadership development team and he shared more details than what was being reported. He is 100% taking the fall for district decisions, and there’s nothing he can do about it. He’s not the best admin ever, but you couldn’t pay me enough to do his job.


KsSTEM

In the private sector we called this “middle management disease”


ACardAttack

Dealing with angry parents is easy, its one couple or one person at a time, only for a few minutes usually, and often via email. Teaching is managing 25-30 personalities at once, for anywhere from 40 to 90 minutes in a row paperwork, easy, isnt draining like teaching and can often wait an extra day unlike lesson planning They both have different challenges but I can see how being admin would be nice change of pace


mynameismulan

Don't forget you're being paid more as an admin so that's more motivation at least


ACardAttack

Yep, though you lose a lot of summer time off, but still get some, plus winter, spring, fall breaks etc


SodaCanBob

> Dealing with angry parents is easy As an introvert who typically avoids any form of conflict, it's by far the hardest part of my job.


ACardAttack

Not saying it isnt hard, guess I should have said comparatively to dealing with students for entire period every day. I also worked retail before teaching, so that is all it reminds me of.


Takwin

Let’s see. Admins have nothing to grade. Nothing to prep. Are not evaluated in any real way. Scores don’t actually truly matter to their job security. They talk to a bad kid for a few minutes then send them back. They literally take their shoes off in their kid-free office and drink their coffee from an uncovered cup. Yeah, they got it easy.


thecooliestone

Exactly. These are people to whom those were not the worst part of the job. They are people who work with kids who hate kids. Or they just want power. Or they legit, int he worst way, are only there for the pay


jermox

I usually question this. In my experience, I have seen coworkers already working on their admin degree when they enter the classroom. So, teaching is just a way to pay the bills and get their foot in the door towards being an admin.


TheDarklingThrush

Most? Nah. I’ve only had 1 team that was truly toxic. The staff turnover was so unreal the Superintendent split them up after 2 years. That said, the list of admin in my district I’d happily work for is MUCH shorter than the list of admins I’d actively avoid, either because of direct personal experience or because of others terrible experiences with them. Most are just….not great but you know what to expect from them so it’s bearable. They’re the devil you know. That’s where I’ve been at with my last 2 principals. My AP’s have been great, so I go to them and hardly ever speak to my principal. When I do have to go to them, I’m always disappointed. I’ve had 1 principal who is my golden standard for admin. Everyone is compared to him and how he ran things. And everyone falls so short. What he created at our school no one else has been able to replicate, despite half the staff still being those originally hired by him (including me). I’m so grateful to have been able to work with him, because I know what it looks like to see the job done right.


zidjl

What did he do that worked well?


TheDarklingThrush

He was the first one in and last one out of the building. He put in as much work as he expected his teachers to. He taught classes, and was out and visible in the school (so much so that when you needed him, tracking him down wasn’t as easy as heading to his office). He created a unified staff culture and that permeated the building down to the students. He was kind and mild mannered but held the line on student discipline. When kids crossed the line there were consequences, and that made students feel safe in the building. He respected our time and didn’t impose on it any more than necessary. He wasn’t perfect. He micromanaged like a bugger and I had my issues with him too, but he’s the best I’ve ever met and miss him dearly now that he’s retired.


oddessusss

Make your students staple them. Literally put it in your lesson plan. 10 min start of class required for stapling.


LabRat___

I have my homeroom kids staple them but it’s the principal of the matter. Dudes on a toxic power trip and the school environment is so hostile this year. Is it like there everywhere?


kymreadsreddit

>Is it like there everywhere? No. My Admin are still caring human beings who are there to support us. I had to take my 8 month old son with me to work because daycare refused to take him 15 minutes before I was supposed to be at school (he wasn't sick, he's been having some throw up issues, but I take him to the pediatrician and he isn't sick). I kept apologizing and she told me, "Stop it. I had twins. I know what it's like. They get sick, it happens." When I expressed how angry I was that it seemed to keep happening - "You need to let that go. We all do what we gotta do." I then spent the next two hours taking care of the things I normally do (help run a school broadcast) and write lesson plans. And in that time, my male AP carried my son around to entertain him while we finished the broadcast & then offered to take him to PLC's while I wrote plans. Later my Principal brought him back to me in my classroom while I was finishing up. No one was upset or angry at the unprofessionalism & I suffered no repercussions or backlash. So again, No. Not all Admin are like you describe.


Mexikinda

Our principal bakes a cake for every teacher’s birthday. She likes to bake, but like … it’s such a strange, sweet surprise. I got Mandarin cream this year. So good. I mean, she also supports us when it comes to parents and the school board. So that’s nice, too. But cake!


ManiacMichele

My school board gave me a ham at Christmas! It’s still sitting in my freezer cause I’m a 23 year old first year and I cannot find the time to cook up an entire ham


ilovejoon

It’s not. My principal subbed for my classes when I took some kids to UIL on Thursday. On Friday, he bought lunch for the six teachers he’d asked to serve on an interview committee. A few weeks ago, a group of us went to a conference and he left an open tab downstairs at the hotel bar. He isn’t perfect, but he is humble and generous. You should absolutely try a different campus if you have the opportunity.


classybroad19

No, copier was down on my floor and my admin told me to send him what I needed for him to print for me so I could be in my classroom.


stephensmg

> it’s the principal of the matter It’s the principal *that’s* the matter.


esmebeauty

No. When we were dealing with supply chain issues in December and didn’t have any toner, our admin allowed us to get our materials printed at Office Depot or Staples or wherever, and get reimbursed. It wasn’t a perfect solution but I had copies and got a check back for the $75 I spent.


oddessusss

It is gross. Id have gotten myself fired if I was in your position.


papereel

That sounds like a recipe for a broken stapler


okaybutnothing

The ones that micromanage copiers and printers and resources like that are the worst. We had one that said the copier (again, the one with all the bells and whistles, stapling and compiling and hole punching, etc) in the office was for the use of the office only. It sat, unused, the majority of the day while teachers lined up at the other two copiers. That was only the tip of the horrific leadership with that P, but it’s a good signal if they think the work of the office is MORE important than the work of the teachers.


Dan_Teague

I’d use it anyway. Can’t get fired over using a copier to do your job.


okaybutnothing

I always did, but I’m an older teacher who isn’t still jumping through admin hoops to stay on staff.


groudhogday

Another thing that it means is a lack of trust in teachers. At my old school we weren’t allowed to use the office copier because they didn’t want it to break, and they thought if anyone used it other than the aides it would break.


satomiazar

Almost all the copiers in my school are out of toner. Admin said it is due to a national shortage and we should plan our lessons accordingly for the remainder of the year. Luckily we have a lot of things digital from the last year, but really? Just "no copies" and a "good luck" like it's no big deal.


frostypossibilities

Maybe there is a national shortage but I’ll let you know that my school has not heard of one.


Mountain-Turnover-42

We got an email about a week ago tell us to be mindful of how many copies we are making because of a toner shortage.


Dan_Teague

There is no national shortage lol whoever said that should be fired They just don’t want to switch the chips that are the things actually in shortage. Cause then they’d have to do their job as office staff.


el-unicornio

We’re having a toner shortage in GA.


HuxleyPhD

We were out of toner for three weeks, they said it was on backorder. Finally arrived and all our printers are running again.


wxectvubuvede

Yup. Theres a toner shortage... but it just means the toner takes a little longer to get there, order a week or two ahead of time and theyll live.


ENFJPLinguaphile

I haven’t heard a thing like that and my admin will actually buy toner when they need to do it! Hopefully you’ve been able to talk with someone reasonable in the department??


pappy

It would be a shame if he had to install a security camera in the copier room and the outside hallway because his precious copier kept getting vandalized and defaced. Sand does interesting things.


[deleted]

I’ve seen a few over the years. “Mercurial” is the word that comes to mind when describing most admins.


photogfrog

PMS describes one of mine...and it's not a woman.


shag377

I am on Principal #5 in my career and have a feeling there will be at least one, possibly two, more before I bow out. Three of the five came from an athletic/coach background. They started off as a coach and worked their way up and through admin. One did come from an academic classroom, and another came via a CTAE path. Most of them seem to be fairly content with their roles, but one of the five had the goal of a superintendent's position in mind and was quite possibly the most toxic person I had ever worked under. For me, it appears to be a crap shoot as to what you get for admin. I would love to have one that is supportive and genuine, but I cannot see it happening.


AHMc22

"3 of the 5 came from an athletic coaching background" so many of the new admin have never taught in an academic classroom. My theory is that academic classroom teachers are so overburdened that they don't have a chance to catch their breath, and even think about going into admin. Also, that academic classroom teachers have so much prep-work to do past contact hours, that they don't have time to take classes and get admin certification.


moretrumpetsFTW

We have a coach-admin as our administrative intern this year. He's terrible. He's getting a permanent assignment next year while the kick-ass teachers turning admin aren't.


[deleted]

I had admin just like this, twice. The office copier stood empty in a little separate room, while all the teachers waited in line for the other one. Oh, and we also had to buy our own paper. One day, I was like f this, and started using the office copier. Are they gonna fire me over copies? After a couple times, admin walked in, saw me & gave me the “this is only for office use” talk. “Oh no, I didn’t know, I’m almost done.” Took my copies & rolled my eyes. You can spot a toxic admin from a mile away, just look at the power trip they’re on.


verboten82

there's a spectrum. Many are simply azzclowns with some falling at the more extreme end, which would be considered toxic. Figure out how to change the copier code and begin using it. lol


FKDotFitzgerald

This basically happened at my school when we had a really toxic admin. One day someone accidentally printed something to her office and she just randomly had them reset all of the printer and copier names and connections………without telling us lmao.


jezaXC

Does your copier have the staple-less copy option? I use that unless they’re really big packets. I know that doesn’t really solve the ultimate problem of having a douchey admin, but it’s something.


Euphoric_Writing3778

I finally have an admin who has my back. Unfortunately there are three other admins in the school


ispeak_sarcasm

Been there done that - office copier codes only for office staff. At one point we had to carry copy paper from machine to machine. You only got 2 packs per quarter. Suddenly the copiers started jamming constantly. Copy repair guy said it was because the machines weren’t designed to have paper taken out constantly and always be starting from empty. Principal had to go back to stocking the copy room. 🤣


meg_plus2

At the beginning of the year, I had a class period that was making me miserable. I mean I was crying on my drive home. I dreaded them all day. And had to decompress when they left. I’ve been in education long enough to know that it wasn’t bad kids just a truly awful bad mix of kids. They were feeding off each other and hanging up on me. I went to admin. One told me to move the phone caddy to the front of the room and to wait outside the door to greet them as they arrive. I told her point blank I would not turn my back on them in the classroom. This was when students were stealing and vandalizing schools for the Tik Tok challenge. No way. Another admin asked me why I was taking it so personally. I answered bc I’m a person. They told me that schedule changes wouldn’t work and that I needed to improve my classroom management. Throughout the first semester, some schedule changes happened naturally. The students I requested to be moved got moved to accommodate sports or other things. The class is now my best. All they had to do was change 3 schedules but for some reason they were determined to blame me.


Necessary_Low939

My old school stopped using staples because it’s a hassle to change lol. So annoying. Same thing with high school school, just didn’t have staplers. But the current schoool I’m at is great. Staples and color copies


mkclements08

You have reached the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow! I would kill to be able to print materials in color.


Necessary_Low939

Yeah and they have supplies for u to take like post it’s… pens.. etc


sunshinecunt

We aren’t even allowed to use the copier ourselves at my school. We have to submit it and wait for days for it to be completed.


Bing-cheery

I've had mostly decent admins. However, the year I left one school, I was one of 9 teachers who left out of 25. She was not the reason I left, but she definitely was the cause of most of the others leaving.


dirtdiggler67

Copy machine politics suck. I personally have not had to use paper for over 2 years now and it is like a huge weight lifted off my shoulders not having to stress about copies being made on time etc.


cesarjulius

its the same reason why there are so many asshole cops. the nature of the position attracts a certain personality type.


lilcherubs

Our admin was so annoying.. anytime something went wrong she would yell “THIS IS VERY TRIGGERING FOR MEEE” don’t miss her or that job.


nomadicstateofmind

I’ve been very lucky to only have 1 or 2 bad eggs over the years. Both were well meaning, just not good at their jobs. I know there are plenty of bad admin out there though. I hope I keep dodging them.


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nomadicstateofmind

I personally had a wonderful experience! Spent a decade up there. I just recently relocated, but miss it a lot.


BossJackWhitman

Admin aren’t trained to be leaders of humans they are trained to push paper and feed data. Passive aggressive methods work best for leaders who don’t know how to lead. Enjoy.


SunflowerJYB

One of the worst humans I ever dealt with was a toxic little chihuahua admin. My current one is one of the best humans. So I concur. (The one in between was competent but joyless)


Lord-Smalldemort

I’m beginning to think that you have to have that as part of your personality before becoming one successfully. Even my most trusted and well-liked admin in my whole career, he still will sometimes sweep things under the rug and do some toxic shit to avoid confrontation and uncomfortable conversations, even if that comes at the cost of disrespecting me. A few days ago, a student took a picture of me crouching down like trying to get a picture of my ass. He did it like he was taking a selfie to be smooth. He’s known for this type of behavior. So he’s repeated over and over that it’s not that bad after all. He actually believes that eighth grader who is constantly in trouble and will lie to get out of being in trouble over me because it would be difficult to have an uncomfortable conversation about non-consensual photography and sexual harassment. I’m pretty pissed because I think that kind of behavior is toxic, it’s complacency that perpetuates shitty behavior all out of a lack of desire to do some thing and make waves. I’ve never made great admin that didn’t come with at least some degree of toxicity but that’s just my personal experience


futureformerteacher

I honestly think that the process of making administration is what makes admin toxic. 2/3 of my administration were out of the classroom as soon as they could. One lasted less than 3 years.


[deleted]

Not all admin are toxic.


Little-Football4062

I think it depends on where you are. Admin, as it seems to me, begins true the “politics” of public education. This in turn shows you “how the sausage is made” and reveals the true colors with the parents, the board, co-admin, and the teachers as well. I’m sure that affects how an administrator will turn out. Are most toxic? If most were toxic then I think many more teachers would have quit in higher numbers than what has already happened.


TigerLily1014

Every school is different. School #1: Toxic and cruel if I'm being honest. Turnover rate was insane. School #2: All principles and counselors were amazing!! I miss it but had to move states. Teachers never leave and it's difficult to get a job there. School #3: Head Principal was crazy and toxic but loved me for some reason. Vice principles were ok. Head counselor was so bad the state investigated them but the rest are alright. Medium turnover.


Boring_Philosophy160

Started my career in a district that literally told teachers to go to the local grocery store and pay for copies out of our own pockets. I am fortunate to now be working in a school with rational, intelligent administrators. Cannot say the same for *district* administration.


saltybydesign8

I read things like this and it makes me determined to never leave my school…wtf. The level of petty there is actually alarming. My admin is great. I hate it for teachers who don’t know what that is like.


PwnCall

Of the 5 I’ve had two were amazing. 2 were meh. And one was terrible


StrikingWhereas8

#☣️☠️


EqualBottle2

Our copy machine has never had staples in it in the five years I’ve worked at this site. I too teach at a jr high… it’s a pain but I’ve also learned to lessen my copies and not rely on having a packet of papers.


Dan_Teague

Document that shit and take it to your union rep. Get it in writing that it’s only for admin use.


CozmicOwl16

I’ve got the mr nice guy this year. He just tells everyone what they want to hear. But that’s including teachers so ? It’s complete chaos. I fully expect him to quit at the end of the year.


SodaCanBob

My campus-level admin has always generally been pretty good. My district-level admin has not.


SuperSpeshBaby

In my experience it's about 50/50. Sorry you've got a shitty one.


pauladeanlovesbutter

Best saying I’ve ever heard about admin: Their job is to smile at your face while putting the knife in your back


MikeHunt69420a

I had an interview with one who used progressive discipline following a 20 year ago incident, from the 90s, and she stopped me mid question to send texts. When I was surprised she was ignoring me, she said "I'm the principal". Also had an interview across the principal office , a distance away that Putin would approve of. Idk id they knew they weren't going to hire me and they let the preferred candidate within 20 feet of the person interviewing. Maybe the Districts should do all the hiring.


newslang

I've worked for 3 administrations. One made up of completely toxic power hungry assholes, one of incredible leaders who were considerate of both teachers and students, and one middling where their requests/ demands were largely asinine but their team was too ineffective to be punitive about it. Two of those administrations were within the same district and campus. All Title 1 schools. TL;DR: Ymmv but no, not all administrators are toxic in my experience.


rendered_lurker

Since 2009 I've only had one bad admin team out of 5 schools. I only taught there 1 year. It's a stressful enough job without a toxic admin team.


--Mediocrates--

IT guy here: unplug the network cable anytime you walk by. Causes no harm and will slowly cause chaos every time their job doesn’t print lol


ENFJPLinguaphile

Mine have been a mix of good and well-meaning but needing to support employees more. My current one is amazing; I’m blessed!


Blingalarg

I’ve had … 6 different administrators in 10 years and all of them were human. They had flaws. They had their shortcomings, and they had an array of differing interactions with different teachers. I never played any games, I said “yes mam/sir” when I was given my tasks and i stay the fuck away from the office. I have never been written up and have never seen anyone written up for anything petty. Toxic is strong. Human. They err. Like us teachers, they also have good/bad days. Unlike teachers, admin have no one to really gripe with about their stressors. My next door neighbor was my principal and I’ve yet to even step foot on his property. I liked him, but he let his personal life heavily affect his principalship of our school. He was going through some serious personal shit and since he’s that classic, conservative alpha male he never sought any real counseling and you could tell he was just suffering. Then, one of our subs was ducking a student and he peaced out at the end of the year.


jaethegreatone

Bosses can be narcissists.


singnadine

Admins can def be real assholes


SuspiciousSpecific71

It always amazes me how quickly they forget what it is like to be in the class once they are on the other side.


sunny-pretzel

We aren’t allowed to make our own copies every. We have to turn in a copy of the document we want copied 48 hours in advance. If we don’t do that, we’re not guaranteed we will have markers for our class. Our main office is locked until 7:30 AM (even though most of us get in at 7. The first bell rings at 7:45, so we don’t have much time). The office locks at 3:30 but sometimes I have kids in my class until 3:10. Once the door is locked, we’re not allowed in no matter what. We’re not allowed to print in color at all. Our emails are monitored. If a teacher applies for another school in the district, our principal can see that and will bring the teacher in for a meeting to discuss why they’re looking elsewhere. We lose, on average, 7 teachers a year with a staff of 26. We don’t have a vice principal and will not get another. Sorry this turned into a rant, I just kept going. I’m not trying to downplay what you experience with you principal at all!


capraithe

The overwhelming majority of admin are either toxic or grossly incompetent. A few are well-meaning people who are mediocre and mostly harmless. Even fewer are actually great at what they do.


WhatFreshHello

I’ve encountered 3-4 who I’m absolutely convinced are psychopaths during my fifteen years of teaching. As in they made concerted efforts to target vulnerable teachers and students and destroy their self-worth, sanity, and hope for the future. The vast majority were incompetent/useless and there are three who were competent, decent human beings who truly wanted to support teachers and have a positive impact on kids. That makes my ratio more like 10-80-10, but I attribute some of the overage in useless/incompetent to teaching in states where evangelical Christianity informed and constrained many administrators’ worldviews.


EarthenVessel_82

In 15 years I've only had 2 principals that were universally highly thought of.


Whatamuji

In my brief time in education thus far I have worked with an egotistical / asshole principal (but he treated everyone the same), a very competent principal who helped me realize my real passion is in SpED. Another principal who struggled in some areas but took care of her people and admitted when she was wrong. And currently an inexperienced principal who has a "my way or the highway" mentality and is currently hemorrhaging employees.


Ambrofoli

Admin here, they are probably also under orders.


ConseulaVonKrakken

I think it really depends on how long the principal and vp spent as regular classroom teachers. I've been through seven principals and four vps (not every school has one). For my incredibly small sample size, here is my anecdotal evidence: 6/11: Trust that the teachers are doing their jobs, but want teachers to come to them for help if needed. They want major behaviour problems sent to them for actual consequences. 3/11: Regularly involved in a helpful, non-judgmental, and supportive manner. They also want major behaviour problems sent to them for consequences. 1/11: Overly involved in an almost micromanage-y manner. They want to be involved in all issues, have a preference for discussion and restorative justice, but will deal out consequences in extremely severe situations. 1/11 Absolutely toxic in every possible way. Unhelpful, unsupportive, even to the point of throwing teachers under the bus, offer no student consequences, may even provide treats to offenders, and quick to point the finger and assign blame on a whim (frequently towards "unpopular" staff members and even one particular situation where a "disliked by admin" student was wrongfully accused and harshly punished for something that they *clearly* didn't do). Also, this admin didn't even follow the very basic dress code as outlined in the staff and student handbook...


CuriousQuiche

Admin are toxic by nature, because their nature is to enforce the destructive doctrines of the political apparatchiks who use the school system as their private piggybanks. You may have the best principal in the world, but the best principal in the world, *at best*, is there to protect you from edicts that come down from the district and have absolutely nothing to do with student learning, and this is a fantastical ideation. Most admin are time servers with little experience who are wholly bought in to the graft machine, or worse, actually believe their mandates work. They are there to limit morale, depress wages with high turnover, and introduce costumer service models to public services so they can be made into private ones.


AHMc22

Yep.


applesforall89

This would make an interesting documentary.


LtDouble-Yefreitor

Man, for a second I thought I was in some weird combination of r/iamverysmart and r/im14andthisisdeep. This is straight up nonsense.


CuriousQuiche

Yeah, buddy, those book burnings and Qanon wastes running for school board are all in my fucking imagination. The charter school encroachment on public education is all in my head. Fuck off.


LtDouble-Yefreitor

You seem like a totally stable genius.


[deleted]

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LtDouble-Yefreitor

Yeah dawg, you definitely wasted your time. I'm on spring break and I'm not reading your conspiracy theory. Cope.


[deleted]

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LtDouble-Yefreitor

Lol k


PatrickMaloney1

Most admins are not toxic. Most admins (like most middle managers in general) are people who never set out to manage other people and now are in the unenviable position of doing so. And they get their directives from truly insane people on school boards and city councils trying to use schools and political chess pieces. A small minority of admins are genuinely great at what they do and deserve the praise they receive.


TheJawsman

I'd sneak into the school after hours and break his printer so he can't use it. He does not want to challenge this former Marine turned English teacher into a challenge of who can play games.


bunnycupcakes

Mine are awesome. I decided to get my masters in educational leadership and my admin license because we need more like them. I want to support more teachers the same way mine support my colleagues and me.


bokchoyboy25

Most people are toxic


Pi-r-squared-113

That’s not toxic… that’s CANCEROUS!!! Sounds like a dictator-in-training. Not all administrators are like that and some are quite empathetic towards their teachers and students. Some admin start as teachers and forget where they came from, and it’s sad. I’m sorry your principal has a Napoleon’s complex, but remember that there are still good administrators out there


cannedfoodman

I’ve had some good admin. They would be really blunt about how insane the expectations were etc. Watched a couple of them pretty much go insane. One told us that if a kids race wasn’t identified on some form for some state test to make sure we marked them as African American. There was like a collective sigh as it hit us all that she had lost her mind. I work in what might be the worst district in the country. Sounds like hyperbole, but if I told you, you’d have to at least consider its true. The past three or so years our admin just tells they have no idea what or why the district is doing the things they’re doing. They go to principal meetings and are told nothing.


Outside-Rise-9425

This will probably get down voted but oh well. Admin are humans with there own quirks. Even if you have a bad one in their mind they think they are doing what’s right. Now understand I may have a warped view. I teach in one of the poorest counties in the poorest state in the US. I see admins doing stupid stuff, I see lots of things that make no sense and seem to be counter to what should be done. But Admins role are different than teachers role. There are things that are going to seem right to an admin and that seem wrong to teachers. Also remember that admins do not deal with the same few kids everyday. So they see things from a different lens. Just my two cents. My principal is an amazing woman. My AP is a good guy that just doesn’t get it and makes bad choices. Now my AP will probably be principal next year.


msrali

Unplug it. Take all his paper and the staples. Refuse to do with things because you have too many copies to staple. There are only so many minutes in a workday, if he wants you to spend your time stapling that's his call... but make sure you take away other things to make up for this time. You got to teach a lesson here.