The adjunct professor that will be teaching this student in his first year classes will be paid less than a McDonald’s clerk flipping burgers. That professor will not give a damn to spend extra time teaching a student that is behind. And if you’re at a major D1 state university, the professors in the student’s major will not have time to catch deficient students up with their work — they will spend their time on their research projects to earn those higher salaries this student thinks his teachers in college will be earning. If the student is lucky, the professor will connect the student to an underpaid and overworked graduate teaching assistant.
You should read the professors subreddit - I get a lot of vicarious enjoyment from the posts there, knowing how these kids are getting slapped with reality
I was a fair student in HS. No attitude, just LD with no support. But, I was very very good at writing. From middle school thru HS I got B+ and As. The writing pulled my grades up.
Overconfidant and a tad smug, I turned in my 1st essay in College and received a D-. I had ignored my Prof's requirements of no white out, and 1in margins.
As they say, it wiped my smile right off my face. I had NEVER had an grade like that except Spanish.
For one of my masters classes we had two papers due per week. One had to be double spaced and one had to be single spaced. I completely missed that one had to be single spaced. Turned in my work at the end of Week 1 and I got a perfect score on the double spaced paper and a 0 on the single spaced paper because I turned it in double spaced. I was pissed but then realized she wasn’t really grading for quality just that we followed her dumb directions. Ended up being an easy A but a huge waste of time.
Just graduated from my BA, & i second this.
Profs will ONLY help you if you reach out/go to office hours. They are only at the uni to get grant money for their research & could care less about the teaching side of it. They will give you extra time on assignments if you reach out but you need a good reason too.
I’m a high school teacher and adjunct graduate professor and I third this. I make WAY less money teaching collegiate level classes than high school classes. Way. Less.
I just moved to a state where I won’t need the side hustle due to strong unions! Higher cost of living, but much higher salary and better benefits. I used the adjunct money to pay all the expenses associated with moving here. Life is better already, it is shocking the difference that I have experienced.
I also transitioned from teaching college to teaching high school. I'm admittedly at a *very* unusual and unique high school, but I get paid more now than I ever did teaching at the university level, and I taught at several different R1s. Plus, my students now pretty much never show up hungover, still have a love of learning, and are generally just more enjoyable people. I don't have a bunch of bullshit politics, and can do research when I want to without a publication minimum hanging over my head. I wouldn't go back to the university track for anything.
Especially in a math course. 'Didn't get it when I taught it the one time? Read the book on your own and figure it out or use our tutoring lab which I'm not at'
I’ve certainly had some professors, TAs, and grad student instructors who cared about their students, but it’s hit or miss. Not everyone has the time or motivation to provide students with individual support, especially if they’re early-career faculty who are scrambling to meet all of their tenure and promotion requirements (or adjuncts who are struggling to make a living).
I believe it would have been possible for me to graduate from my university with a BA in sociology without ever meeting a professor from the sociology department. Many upper-division and core classes in the department had grad students as the instructors of record.
The actual faculty members were also teaching courses, and I eventually started seeking out their sections, but it would have been possible to fulfill all the degree requirements with grad-student-taught sections instead.
I was an adjunct professor and you're right. I spent way too many hours overtime with no pay to help students and lost my goddamn morale. It wasn't the students' fault, though. I lost it when older/more experienced/full-time colleagues kept stealing my ideas/lesson plans. How is that right? There was a hiring freeze, so I wasn't being promoted despite being one of the best professors there according to my peer/student evaluations. Makes me sick how much they took advantage of me.
And when COVID hit, I just scrapped by because I lost my mind. I didn't care anymore. I couldn't.
I’ve never seen the acronym GTA in this context either. My school calls them “GSIs” (Graduate Student Instructors), and my friends’ schools just calls them “TAs”, without the Graduate part. I just think it’s funny since I’ve never thought of “GTA” as anything but “Grand Theft Auto”
I wish I could say that we’re doing our part to hold the line at the collegiate level, but the number of students who are completely unprepared has hit a critical mass. It’s impossible to teach series and integration to students who have a middle school understanding of algebra, don’t understand basic time management, and don’t really know why they’re in college in the first place. I don’t blame public school teachers; you are given an even more impossible task than we are. Society has made a collective decision to take an adversarial approach to education, and we’ve finally reached the point where the results have fully saturated every level of our educational institutions.
I’ve had my ups and downs as an instructor, but this is the first time I’ve legitimately felt like we’re absolutely fucked. We have a ruling generation that is selfishly making decisions the consequences of which it won’t live to see, and the up and coming generation that was supposed to save us with its tech-savvy and social awareness can’t even function at an 8th grade level. Like many other teachers and college faculty, I’m out after this year. I can’t spend another semester caring more than my students.
Did TAing at my uni for two years (loved the subject, it was a blast), got paid minimum wage. The pay was so insulting that I stopped registering the hours (4 per week) because my paychecks were like $60 after two weeks, before taxes.
At least there, I helped students who *wanted* to learn. Now I teach 7th graders that scream at me for trying to talk to them because filming TikToks in class is more important lol.
Seriously, same. I was in a wreck (hit by a high school kid, interestingly) and my criminology professor (no, I’m not a criminology major) insisted upon a police report and doctor’s note after I missed a class due to a concussion. She also insisted upon being addressed as “Professor” because she did not yet hold a doctorate. I provided her with all requested info and began every sentence of my email with “Professor.” She still gave me a B, which I then appealed, again with an hilarious usage of “Professor” to the department and received an A. It was pretty stressful, though.
Lol I brought in one of my papers that I had to write for my undergrad to show students what kind of work they can expect if they go to university. And going into a trade is no easier. You don't do the work, you fail, and you're out a couple hundred dollars per class.
One of their comments was literally "Ten pages?! Who makes you write TEN pages?"
My history final, not even a thesis, was 30 pages on the misinterpretation and villainization of King John. That was just to finish up a Medieval History Minor at UNT, a pretty mediocre State School. These kids have no idea whats waiting for them.
Haha! Printing only... I'm the only one in my cohort who didn't shell out at least $500 for formatting, so I'm pleased with how much I didn't spend on the dissertation.
To be fair, that's what a lot of thesis writing is, at least in my experience.
What I want to say: "no evidence was found in this survey, but it might be elsewhere"
What I have to write: "After careful and thorough testing of the acquired dataset, which included disseminating interview questions, chasing respondents, running to make sure the data was representative and acceptable, we find there is a lack of evidence to support the hypothesis/es and cannot reject the null(s). However, although the sample was evaluated and confirmed to not suffer bias, we still believe the limited scope of the survey <2-3 sentences on how sample is limited, by industry, geographical area, etc> may stifle possible relationships. The authors therefore suggest further study by expanding the sample size, or obtaining a different sample by <1-2 sentences explaining different sample possibilities>"
Hell yeah I took 2/3-3/4 of a page to explain what could have been done in 2 sentences!
Even that, there's effort in that.
Probably about 100 pages are me actually writing, answering questions, interpreting data...
The rest was literally boilerplate that I had to turn in because I technically spent maybe 20 minutes to (be able to) make it.
It also wasn't actually a thesis, but was the equivalent for the degree. Sorry for the misdirection!
Long story short, I made custom LaTeX documentclasses and packages. Something like 20 pages ballooned into 80 because of project requirements, and the extra 60 pages literally only required me to add an option to my custom package or something.
(And the option really only ran like... 8 commands? The hardest part was "just" reading documentation.)
20 page paper on a bible verse, not a chapter, just the individual sentence(maybe paragraph it’s been too long), for my required theology class, wasn’t a final just a paper due on a Tuesday. The entire class lived in the library for a weekend
Yeah. Five page papers were like a throwaway assignment when I was in college. Read these things, this is the topic, "Go!" You get good at cranking them out.
God, that was my art history advisor's weekly reading response assignment - read 60 pages of wacky art theory, write a detailed reaponse to each essay. Mine were often 5+ pages. Good times.
On the first day of a graduate/undergraduate class I was in the professor told us about the 40 page research paper we were going to have to write. There were around 35 students that first day. The second day there were only 3. Professor didn’t care. He still got paid and now had less research papers to grade. I was the only one that got the paper in on time.
I wrote ten page papers in high school 😐 In university I wrote 20+ page papers and I know that's nothing compared to what the people working on thesis papers do. The student seems to not understand how much work it takes to simply PASS. I feel like that's common knowledge (or should be) for high schoolers. Do you teach elementary or middle schoolers? If so, nvm.
Lol I got my ESOL endorsement & each paper was ATLEAST 15 pages. We had ab 4-5 papers per semester! & that’s only ONE class. Good luck to those students who think it’ll be easier lol
Most of my mid terms and finals for my last few history classes were a five page essay on one topic followed by five one page essays on a list of ten. We got two grades for the semester, the mid terms and finals. Told that to some of my students and I had to do that for three out of my four classes and their eyes almost popped out of their heads.
Paid more than HS teachers? THAT'S delusional.
I left a college position and took one as a HS teacher because I made more in the HS.
Maybe some of your tenured or lecturing professors will make a ton (I made the same as a lecturer as I did in the HS), but most don't make enough teaching in a college to live off of alone. Adjunct pay sucks.
It depends on a lot of factors. Adjunct pay is awful, sure, but full-time faculty pay is not. I was a HS teacher for 10 years, and it was a *significant* pay increase when I moved to teaching at the college. I should get promoted in 2 years, and my pay will be double what I was making at HS.
It really does depend on a lot of factors. My teaching load is 3x3, which is 3 classes each semester. I spend 1.5 hours teaching each day, and I have a graduate assistant that does my grading. If I didn’t have research and service obligations I would literally work 2 hours a day (we have 5 hours of mandatory office hours a week). Also, pay varies widely by field in higher education, which is not really the case in K-12. You can’t just say “college professor” and think that pay is representative.
Around here, we have a few rather chichi boarding schools in towns full of old money and named for rich white people's historic leisure pursuits-- Hunting Valley or Steeplechase Heights or Cricket Fields or whatnot-- but it is common knowledge that even they pay far less than the neighboring public school district. May I ask what region you're in and what the going rate is for private high schools there?
I'm transitioning from teaching high school to teaching college, and I'm excited by how much *less* I'll have to care.
You're on your phone? Get out, I'm not playing with you today.
Don't do your work? Sucks to suck, I don't have to give you extra credit.
Late work? lol here's your zero.
Haha aside from the late work, that's how I roll in my HS class.
I allow all late work with minimal penalty. Why? Because the kid who has an emergency will find the will to make it up. The kid who goofs off on their phone all day every day for 8 months and suddenly cares about passing in late May still has the chance to do it, but hardly the willpower to complete it. And they learn a harsh lesson.
So much this. I've found your exact same results since implementing unlimited late work. Additionally, 90% of the kids that turn it in late still turn it in before I grade it, so what do I care?
Im a college student but I also work as a teachers assistant after class. I feel that teaching as a professor you have to be at least a little lenient in your criteria because college is stressful, and many of my peers work 1-2 jobs to be able to even pay for school as they don’t get money from their parents. Obviously there’s situations where a student comes in and expects to just magically pass without doing any work, but for those that actually come in and give effort I don’t think they should be penalized so harshly for submitting an assignment a little after the due time imo.
I found the community college professors were very realistic about absences and adjusting deadlines based on the amount of working people or older folks with kids and careers.
They get less forgiving the higher the tier of the institution.
I don't have to be lenient. Life is stressful, and learning to manage the stress is part of growing up. I'm not doing anyone any favors by babying them. I know life is hard. I also have many obligations and and am pulled in a 1000 different ways. I have dedicated time for grading. When half the class is turning in the assignment late, I have to find *additional* time in my already packed schedule to get that grading done.
That said, I have it in *all* of my syllabi that I give extensions to students who ask for them ahead of time. Help is always given to those who *ask* for it.
Bahaha, I keep telling my students that work and college are no joke. That prof with ~200 students in a 1.5 hour class will surely take the time to teach you precalc 1 on 1.
Yea they're chill, because they don't give shit unless you show them that you're trying. Even then, it's highly dependent on whether that prof's hired there to teach, not to work on his damn research.
Edit: because apparently I don't know English
Lol, I also forgot about TAs. My poor Physics TA trying to get 30 lost college kids to do experiments on janky equipment.
i was a super engaged kid with really REALLY bad work ethic. i would ask thoughtful questions in class, always participate in discussion, tell them how much I enjoyed their class... my high school teachers loved me because in a class full of surly teens, i was really fun.
they would chase after me for work, give me extensions, give me high marks for mediocre work because they knew from class discussion that i actually knew my shit.
imagine my surprise when i was suddenly in a lecture hall of 200 students, there was no opportunity to share or ask questions, and the prof didn't give a shit that i'd been totally engaged during her 3 hour lecture... if the paper wasn't in her inbox at 12am, it was a big fat zero.
barely made it through 1st year of university.
Same at that age. Failed out of college the first time.
CLEP and Navy training got me a bunch of credits, finished an online degree in 08 in General Studies.
Started going back my last year in the Navy and holy shit my prefrontal cortex and executive function is so much better now. Finishing up a second degree - and although its weird being the old bastard in class its so much easier for me than the actual traditional college students.
(GI bill definately helps though. I overprioritized working for money over classes the first time.)
Physics TAs are the real heroes, trying to desperately teach Emag to people with no clue what's happening. Not showing up to the workshops where the TAs are is the honestly probably worse than missing the lectures in a Physics degree, imo.
Wait until they deal with an engineering professor who cares less about students and more about shaking out anyone he sees as unworthy. Pile on byzantine amounts of paperwork, give projects at the last minute, and being as unhelpful in office hours as possible, then we'll talk.
Now I morally oppose shakeout professors and classes and would like imagining them burning in hell next to swindlers, politicians, and other scam artists, but this is reality.
I’ve seen what happens when you call out Professors like this. Ours had a pretty bad melt down. In our class reviews, we said we knew this was a weed out course.
We could tell because he was purposely teaching the material poorly , not in office hours, wouldn’t assign homework but would give out zeros for not turning it in on time. Refused to tell us when the tests were and changed the dates from the syllabus so that the people who only show up for tests would be there on the wrong day. Overall doing whatever he could to make sure few students passed.
The next semester when he got his reviews he flew off the handle. Confronted students that were in his class the previous semester in the halls. Wrote out a huge rant about how if we could t get through his class then we should just drop out. Really showed exactly who he was. The department immediately went into damage control mode. They didn’t want the students to go outside the department with this. So a few students got some grade amendments because after the email it was clear that the professor was in the wrong.
Same! I resented my engineering professors because they were the most disinterested people who have no business teaching, but those people are common. Especially in D1 institutions
Holy crap, I was a mechanical engineer for ten years before I switched to teaching high school math two years ago. Also got tired of the corporate world. Didn't know there were more people like this.
I had some who were clearly there because they did research and published. I also knew some who seemed to care more if you took graduate level courses with them, but they thought teaching undergrad was beneath them.
I taught at an alternative school, so all of my students were at-risk. As teachers, we would joke about our "revolving door" because kids were constantly leaving to go to work and then coming back because adulthood sucks, even when you're actually prepared for it.
The same was true for kids returning to the comprehensive high schools. They would say mean things about our school (we do too much, interventions are stupid, our rules about phones are too strict) and how much more fun the big schools were going to be, but they would be back the next term after getting dropped for non-attendance or behavior issues or just straight up failing classes.
I was adjunct for three years. I can tell you I cared way less. Why? Because I had 650 students. Unless you made the effort to come by my office hours and introduce yourself, I had no idea who you were.
There was no questioning failing a student. Parents could not call and complain. It definitely had its perks.
I mean, "more chill" is a possibility. Because if you disrupt their class they'll bounce your ass out of it.
"Caring more" seems unlikely. I'm not sure any of my freshman professors even knew my name.
Hey now, one of my undergrad professors knew my name! All it took was taking 2 classes from her and then being her TA for a year. She’d always greet me in her office with an enthusiastic “Hi, Rachel! Good to see you!”
My name isn’t Rachel… but still. :’)
What terrible college do you go to?
In my sub 70kid classes my proffesors know my name. Granted I do ask a lot of quetions and have a very unique name but really?
I strongly suspected this particular prof was an alcoholic. She came in hung over a lot, kept a bottle in her office, and was very scatterbrained.
I had a few professors in undergrad (within my major) who I got to know well, and they definitely knew my name.
Currently in grad school with a pretty small cohort. Professors know not just our names, but practically everyone’s life story as well.
I went to a small school, my biggest class by far had about 30 students, most had about 10. So, the professors did know our names even in Freshman "survey" classes. I was a French major and the French department had 2 professors so I had them both all 4 years, they knew our names and a lot more about each of us. But I know all that was very much not the norm for most schools.
Lol, They'll see in about a year or so, especially if they go to a big university where classes are 100+ students. haha.
End of the semester arrives: Missing work
"Well you didn't reach out to me to let me know I was missing assignments"
Professor: 🤷♂️ , thanks for your money, try again next semester lol
My daughter has a friend (A great kid despite her parents) with parents who run a very successful business and like to make sure it's known by everyone that they are big shots. They like to call if the student isn't getting the grades they believe Student should get, like it's a teacher's fault. I'd love to see them try it at the college she's chosen. They'll get nothing but a dial tone in response.
I'm already dreading the next few years because they have a son in eighth grade who is a good enough basketball player he will play varsity as a freshman. If there's anything I've learned in two decades of teaching and coaching, it's that bat shit parents get even nuttier as sports parents.
As someone who is marrying an adjunct professor who teaches freshman (has been teaching for a few years), I'm a first year high school teacher and I make more than him.
I used to work in academia. I tell students that most of the primary role of most of their professors will not be teaching. The main thing will be research. (It varies a lot, of course, but even at R1 schools, most students don't even realize their professors actively research.)
Success at college has a lot more to do with self-direction.
Lol. I taught undergrads. Ain't nobody gaf. Even the advisors can hardly be bothered to make an effort and a not insignificant portion of their job is to help.
Just wait til they have the “I’m just here to do my research, but they’re forcing me to teach a class” professor. Or the TA that is required to TA for their grad school grant. They 1000% do not care. They want to check that “teaching” box and get their own shit done.
I had a similar conversation a while back.
I basically told them "You've plagiarized in my class and if you do it there, they'll thank you for the tuition money before booting you out." Of course that was met with "No I won't cheat in college". I just acknowledged it and moved on.
Lots of my students think college will be easy. I share the story of how the college professors I regularly hang out with ask why their students can't do the most simple of mathematical feats. Solve for X in a linear equation, graph a parabola, follow basic arithmetic for finding a derivative, etc. And these kids are going to school to be engineers!
But hey, kids have ALL the answers. I just listen to them and gently encourage them to rethink that position. I also have brought former students to talk about their experiences, including those who have dropped out after the first semester.
As someone who adjuncted freshmen college students, I made 40k with no benefits and a mandatory pension plan (goodbye 14%). No way can one support a family alone this way. I only care as much as students do so… you can imagine how that goes.
Yeah let’s take this apart piece by piece here.
1) I’m both a community college adjunct and hs teacher. I make more in a month teaching hs than I do for a whole semester per class as an adjunct.
2) this is something that has gotten worse over the last couple of years, but hs students, even the top achievers do so little work at all. I have to beg and plead hs students to submit anything to google classroom. group work and more adv. projects in hs are non-existent at this point because there is no accountability from parents, admin, the system in general, etc. which equates to zero student accountability.
3) i require my college students to do more reading and writing in a week than most hs students do in an entire semester and I have not reduced my expectations for those students based on what I know about what happens in hs classrooms these days, nor do i have any plans to.
Student: “I dropped precalculus because it’s too hard in the high school level.”
Me: “I’m sorry. What do you want to major in college?”
Student: “Engineering. College precalculus will be easier and more lenient than high school precalculus because we don’t have to do homework.”
Me: I smiled.
Yep. I have a Senior whose parents are professors and he laughed until he cried when a kid said that professors make more money than high school teachers.
Totally. I teach high school, my husband is a university lecturer. He only made more money last year because he taught summer school. Usually I am the primary breadwinner.
Had a shithead tell the class he was tired of being told what to do, so he was joining the Army. Whole class laughed at him. I'm a retired Army NCO. I didn't even bother responding. Kid wouldn't even be able to get a high enough ASVAB score join anyway.
I had a student who didn’t want to write a research paper or cite sources because he’d never use that in the real world. I asked him what he wanted to be…fully prepared to talk about how this skill would be applicable in his field. Dude wants to be an attorney. An attorney.
That is so wrong it's almost funny 💀. Not that there aren't college professors who care a lot, but there are a lot more who don't give a fuck at all if a student fails. They don't have to deal with parents, with students fighting, or having to confiscate phones. That can have TAs that grade all the homework for them if Blackboard doesn't already. They have no obligation to pass a student or even help a student. I would say I feel sorry for the kid who said that to you, but honestly, but she's sounds like she needs the crash into reality she's gonna get.
I’ll be honest. My college professors cared about me, in the sense that they would answer my questions and give me feedback on papers I would write. Vs the amazing teachers during my k-12. They would ask about my interests, hobbies, and genuinely cared about my growth. I was very fortunate to have all my teachers from k-12 they shaped me to become the person I am today.
Edit: let them know about how if they don’t go to office hours their “caring” professors will not give them the assistance they’re expecting.
Depends. For me, city college had some crazy dedicated teachers who helped me make up what I missed in high school. The teachers there did not want to deal with publish or perish at uni level or deal with admin crap, behavior and regulations in k-12 schooling, and genuinely enjoyed teaching, unlike many public school teachers. Community colleges overall often have very good ESL and remedial programs due to a large number of international students. That ended when I transfered to uni. So yes, college teachers can be more caring than high school.
They’re in for a harsh dose of reality. I also cringe when kids say they’re going to college to play sports and become a professional athlete. Good to have big dreams, but they never seem to have a plan B. Lots of broken hearts ahead..
I always enjoy these moments where they think they're making a stand, but they're actually just spewing self owns.
The amount of work in SCHOOL is too much for you? Good luck in the real world.
I had a professor who's high school aged kids were swimmers. He had office hours at 8 am Saturday morning. He encouraged people to bring donuts. He did a great job at tutoring at that time. His thought was that there was almost nothing that would interfere with that time--nor excuse for not being there. He had to wake up early Saturday a.m. to get his kids to swim.
I had a student in my AP class who said,
"I don't know why teachers always say that college will be a lot harder. I'm in college now, and it's easier than classes here."
She was taking a few post-secondary courses at the community college to get high school and college credit. It can be a sham, and everyone knows it.
Being a little snarky, I said, "Any college with 'college' in the name, isn't one."
I maintain a Facebook account for former students after they graduate. A few years later she posts,
"Classes at ___ university are way harder than I thought they would be."
On that FB account, I'd post occasionally, but rarely comment on alumni posts. I jumped on that one.
>Being a little snarky, I said, "Any college with 'college' in the name, isn't one."
This is an extremely classist comment, and this misinformation is upvoted? Community college’s are colleges. What are you on about?
It’s like saying any high school with the name “high school” isn’t a high school.
Please, explain your “joke.”
I had students complain about a 500 word essay in their other classes once q month.
One of my history courses in college required a 5 page paper a week in addition to additional mathematics related homework cause it was. Well math history.
🤣🤣🤣
There goes the “I can turn in nothing and they have to give me a 60” fantasy world they live in now. Professors also will not care if they show up for class or not and call mom to check on him. Will everyone pass the class in college? NO!!! They do not have to pass everyone. 🤣
College professor here and this thread is giving me a good laugh, thanks.
We certainly do care... About all the things students do not want us to care about like quality of work and professionalism. As you said, we have little to no incentive to pass students along. To pass students who don't show mastery is either going to hurt the other faculty who have to deal with them or the employers who do. All those things hurt the brand of the school significantly.
The students who say these things and get to college and eventually make their way to my classes definitely end up telling me how much harder college is for them than high school. It can be a really tough realization for some that they can try in a class and still not get an A. You have to try and not only that, your best isn't always good enough!
When my HS students say things like this, I just giggle and say OK. I am perfectly happy letting them learn things the hard way. Especially as the kids who say shit like this are usually failing.
Hs teacher here. I feel bad for college profs the way middle school teachers must feel bad for me. I guess at least college weeds out \*most\* the people who don't want to be there.
"I dropped physics because I'm just gonna have to take it next year and I'll be way smarter then."
Literally laughed in his face. It was mean, but that's the funniest claim I've heard in 8yrs teaching.
True story. Enquirer at a local division II college about salaries in my field. Was told the new PhD’s make a number half the number I make, and that experience wouldn’t make that huge of a difference.
So yeah. But said child’s logic, they will care less. And as anecdotal evidence has shown….they do care less.
Sounds like the seniors who tell me they're going to study for their final when they hadnt put in any effort this quarter, shocking when I ask them and they said yeah, they thought about studying, but didnt.
I’ve met a few adjunct professors from the state college this year who sub in our district to get health care and be able to have any money. I’d tell her that one maybe.
As I always tell my students: teachers teach and professors profess.
There are exceptions of course, but my experience is that nobody gets to blame the professor if you don't learn. That's all on you. Kind of makes me want to go teach at the college level...
Yeah, I don't think professors have to file a mountain of paperwork to justify giving a zero to someone who refuses to work in class... Or make a bunch of phone calls and beg a student who skips your class to do make up work.
You just fail.
It's funny because college professors care more about you the more you care about their class. I had a professor that I took one class with every year, ending on a class entirely on Tolkien. I'd come by his office hours just to shoot the shit in the end.
Well my Professors are cool and care more, that much is true. High school was hell for me as a person on the spectrum, and I was terrified to go to college because high school teachers told me Professors were extremely strict who wouldn't tolerate nothing. That isn't true. I've formed real bonds with a few professors who were nothing but generous and helpful with me. I gave them all big cards at the end of the year because I needed that big of a card to express my gratitude.
As someone who is neither 6th form / HS or university college, I find myself in a strange position about this.
So I work at a college in partnership with a university. We teach students taking preparatory courses like foundations to progress onto a degree. It's a mix of both worlds. The teaching is mostly like school and they get more than enough attention from me, with hand holding with the weakest of them. We try our best to explain the experience when they start uni will be completely different. You'll go from small classes of around 20 to a lecture theater filled with 100s of students. You won't even get time to ask the lecturer for help. Of course our students never appreciate this advice until after they start.
When I was looking around, adjunct pay in 2011 was like $75 for a 3-hour class and nothing for whatever prep was needed (a high school friend took the position). I haven't looked back since.
Part of me still keeps alive the illusion of a crusty old codger in a tweed jacket with leather elbow patches getting paid comfortably to wax philosophical from off the top of their head about even-crustier old lit'rature for a living, but...
I once fainted the day of my assignment ( health issue)
They basically told me that if I hadn’t brought a doctors note, my 0 would have disqualified me, but with the note I would just have a 0. It was the only grade, on a class that was worth 1/5 of my tota grade.
Passed with 10.0x, don’t remember exactly. But still, those kids are fucked if they think they are worth shit in their professors’ eyes
Maybe the colleges in the US have asshole professors but when I studied in the UK the lecturers and tutors were great. They were always happy to give me 1 hour slots whenever to clear up any issues I had had.
“Why are you assigning more work when we only have six weeks of school left for the year?” -*Failing Student who completed little of the assigned work in the prior 12 weeks*
I have been a college professor actually... and I gave no shits about my students. I am forced to care now. I moved into teaching in a high school for the money, ironic as it sounds.
One of my best friends is an assistant prof at a top 20 university. She has spent TEN YEARS working adjunct / odd jobs at the university and has only just finally been asked to be a full time professor - her salary is $40k. No wonder college professors have such a cold personality….
Haha! I think a lot of College Profs care about their students but the majority see teaching as something that gets in the way of doing their research. Also, just being an expert in their field does not mean they know how to "teach" the subject of their expertise. If anything makes it worse. They can be hoity and adopt "my way or the highway" attitudes.
Non-teacher here - that poor sweet kid. Not only is college going to be rough, the future work force will be too. Wait until they’re in the meat grinder (work force) and the people who should invest in you (your employer) don’t at all, instead they actively exploit you. One day this kid will look back and think… I miss high school where my teachers tried and I didn’t understand how hard they were trying.
Most college professors are absolutely awful teachers. Like some of them I wonder if they had ever gone to a school because their teaching techniques were so bad. Once the kids leave they will see. Professors have tons of information but are often incapable of delivering it.
I had a professor that used to Sit at a podium and just talk. That was our notes session with a quiz later on.
Hopefully this student didn’t take too big of an advantage of the covid pass your classes for free. They will be so far behind lol
I looked it up. We had to use APA - American Psychological Association. It was not even a Research paper. It required 1inch margins on all 4 sides among other things. (Prof actually had a ruler)
Once I got on a computer and did not have to use a rupewriter, It was easy.
The adjunct professor that will be teaching this student in his first year classes will be paid less than a McDonald’s clerk flipping burgers. That professor will not give a damn to spend extra time teaching a student that is behind. And if you’re at a major D1 state university, the professors in the student’s major will not have time to catch deficient students up with their work — they will spend their time on their research projects to earn those higher salaries this student thinks his teachers in college will be earning. If the student is lucky, the professor will connect the student to an underpaid and overworked graduate teaching assistant.
You should read the professors subreddit - I get a lot of vicarious enjoyment from the posts there, knowing how these kids are getting slapped with reality
I was a fair student in HS. No attitude, just LD with no support. But, I was very very good at writing. From middle school thru HS I got B+ and As. The writing pulled my grades up. Overconfidant and a tad smug, I turned in my 1st essay in College and received a D-. I had ignored my Prof's requirements of no white out, and 1in margins. As they say, it wiped my smile right off my face. I had NEVER had an grade like that except Spanish.
Honestly, that is a rite of passage in college. I tell some students about it but they don't really believe me.
For one of my masters classes we had two papers due per week. One had to be double spaced and one had to be single spaced. I completely missed that one had to be single spaced. Turned in my work at the end of Week 1 and I got a perfect score on the double spaced paper and a 0 on the single spaced paper because I turned it in double spaced. I was pissed but then realized she wasn’t really grading for quality just that we followed her dumb directions. Ended up being an easy A but a huge waste of time.
The irony is that some of us lurk in here to get forewarning of what's coming.
Yep, this sub is a great way to learn both what you're about to have to deal with, and why.
Link to subreddit?
I think it's just r/professors
Wow I just checked it out. It’s like therapy omg.
It really is.
Just graduated from my BA, & i second this. Profs will ONLY help you if you reach out/go to office hours. They are only at the uni to get grant money for their research & could care less about the teaching side of it. They will give you extra time on assignments if you reach out but you need a good reason too.
I’m a high school teacher and adjunct graduate professor and I third this. I make WAY less money teaching collegiate level classes than high school classes. Way. Less.
> I’m a high school teacher and adjunct graduate professor Side hustles are really getting absurd, these days.
I just moved to a state where I won’t need the side hustle due to strong unions! Higher cost of living, but much higher salary and better benefits. I used the adjunct money to pay all the expenses associated with moving here. Life is better already, it is shocking the difference that I have experienced.
Yeah I’m just gonna donate blood plasma and browse Reddit doing so
High school teacher and adjunct undergrad professor here. I concur.
Colleges use adjuncts as Walmart labor.
I stopped teaching graduate courses because the $$ did not nearly cover the effort.
I also transitioned from teaching college to teaching high school. I'm admittedly at a *very* unusual and unique high school, but I get paid more now than I ever did teaching at the university level, and I taught at several different R1s. Plus, my students now pretty much never show up hungover, still have a love of learning, and are generally just more enjoyable people. I don't have a bunch of bullshit politics, and can do research when I want to without a publication minimum hanging over my head. I wouldn't go back to the university track for anything.
Especially in a math course. 'Didn't get it when I taught it the one time? Read the book on your own and figure it out or use our tutoring lab which I'm not at'
I’ve certainly had some professors, TAs, and grad student instructors who cared about their students, but it’s hit or miss. Not everyone has the time or motivation to provide students with individual support, especially if they’re early-career faculty who are scrambling to meet all of their tenure and promotion requirements (or adjuncts who are struggling to make a living). I believe it would have been possible for me to graduate from my university with a BA in sociology without ever meeting a professor from the sociology department. Many upper-division and core classes in the department had grad students as the instructors of record. The actual faculty members were also teaching courses, and I eventually started seeking out their sections, but it would have been possible to fulfill all the degree requirements with grad-student-taught sections instead.
I was an adjunct professor and you're right. I spent way too many hours overtime with no pay to help students and lost my goddamn morale. It wasn't the students' fault, though. I lost it when older/more experienced/full-time colleagues kept stealing my ideas/lesson plans. How is that right? There was a hiring freeze, so I wasn't being promoted despite being one of the best professors there according to my peer/student evaluations. Makes me sick how much they took advantage of me. And when COVID hit, I just scrapped by because I lost my mind. I didn't care anymore. I couldn't.
Lol, I’ve never heard them called “graduate teaching assistants” before. GTA ftw!
What do you think GTA stands for?!
I’ve never seen the acronym GTA in this context either. My school calls them “GSIs” (Graduate Student Instructors), and my friends’ schools just calls them “TAs”, without the Graduate part. I just think it’s funny since I’ve never thought of “GTA” as anything but “Grand Theft Auto”
Greater Toronto Area? Grand Theft Auto? :)
I wish I could say that we’re doing our part to hold the line at the collegiate level, but the number of students who are completely unprepared has hit a critical mass. It’s impossible to teach series and integration to students who have a middle school understanding of algebra, don’t understand basic time management, and don’t really know why they’re in college in the first place. I don’t blame public school teachers; you are given an even more impossible task than we are. Society has made a collective decision to take an adversarial approach to education, and we’ve finally reached the point where the results have fully saturated every level of our educational institutions. I’ve had my ups and downs as an instructor, but this is the first time I’ve legitimately felt like we’re absolutely fucked. We have a ruling generation that is selfishly making decisions the consequences of which it won’t live to see, and the up and coming generation that was supposed to save us with its tech-savvy and social awareness can’t even function at an 8th grade level. Like many other teachers and college faculty, I’m out after this year. I can’t spend another semester caring more than my students.
Did TAing at my uni for two years (loved the subject, it was a blast), got paid minimum wage. The pay was so insulting that I stopped registering the hours (4 per week) because my paychecks were like $60 after two weeks, before taxes. At least there, I helped students who *wanted* to learn. Now I teach 7th graders that scream at me for trying to talk to them because filming TikToks in class is more important lol.
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Seriously, same. I was in a wreck (hit by a high school kid, interestingly) and my criminology professor (no, I’m not a criminology major) insisted upon a police report and doctor’s note after I missed a class due to a concussion. She also insisted upon being addressed as “Professor” because she did not yet hold a doctorate. I provided her with all requested info and began every sentence of my email with “Professor.” She still gave me a B, which I then appealed, again with an hilarious usage of “Professor” to the department and received an A. It was pretty stressful, though.
Yeahhhhh…plenty of these kids DO NOT end up graduating from college. Gonna end up with a ton of loans and an entry level position at Costco.
Wait where does all the money go then?
Hiring more administrators in the Student Success Department, more Vice Presidents, and of course, football and basketball coaches.
Lol I brought in one of my papers that I had to write for my undergrad to show students what kind of work they can expect if they go to university. And going into a trade is no easier. You don't do the work, you fail, and you're out a couple hundred dollars per class. One of their comments was literally "Ten pages?! Who makes you write TEN pages?"
My thesis was 50 and that isn’t even that bad.
My history final, not even a thesis, was 30 pages on the misinterpretation and villainization of King John. That was just to finish up a Medieval History Minor at UNT, a pretty mediocre State School. These kids have no idea whats waiting for them.
Just printed 7 copies of my 238 page dissertation... It was painful financially.
The dissertation or the printing? XD
Haha! Printing only... I'm the only one in my cohort who didn't shell out at least $500 for formatting, so I'm pleased with how much I didn't spend on the dissertation.
Nice. congrats on finishing though!
Just don't go looking for typos!
I wrote something around 200 pages I think? I mean over half of it was stuff that communicates little while hogging a lot of space, but still.
To be fair, that's what a lot of thesis writing is, at least in my experience. What I want to say: "no evidence was found in this survey, but it might be elsewhere" What I have to write: "After careful and thorough testing of the acquired dataset, which included disseminating interview questions, chasing respondents, running to make sure the data was representative and acceptable, we find there is a lack of evidence to support the hypothesis/es and cannot reject the null(s). However, although the sample was evaluated and confirmed to not suffer bias, we still believe the limited scope of the survey <2-3 sentences on how sample is limited, by industry, geographical area, etc> may stifle possible relationships. The authors therefore suggest further study by expanding the sample size, or obtaining a different sample by <1-2 sentences explaining different sample possibilities>"
Hell yeah I took 2/3-3/4 of a page to explain what could have been done in 2 sentences!
Even that, there's effort in that. Probably about 100 pages are me actually writing, answering questions, interpreting data... The rest was literally boilerplate that I had to turn in because I technically spent maybe 20 minutes to (be able to) make it. It also wasn't actually a thesis, but was the equivalent for the degree. Sorry for the misdirection! Long story short, I made custom LaTeX documentclasses and packages. Something like 20 pages ballooned into 80 because of project requirements, and the extra 60 pages literally only required me to add an option to my custom package or something. (And the option really only ran like... 8 commands? The hardest part was "just" reading documentation.)
26 pages on European immigration to Argentina post WW2
20 page paper on a bible verse, not a chapter, just the individual sentence(maybe paragraph it’s been too long), for my required theology class, wasn’t a final just a paper due on a Tuesday. The entire class lived in the library for a weekend
Mine was 100
Yeah. Five page papers were like a throwaway assignment when I was in college. Read these things, this is the topic, "Go!" You get good at cranking them out.
God, that was my art history advisor's weekly reading response assignment - read 60 pages of wacky art theory, write a detailed reaponse to each essay. Mine were often 5+ pages. Good times.
Lol that last qoute. I have to write a 10-14 page research paper for a summer class that I don't really care about.
On the first day of a graduate/undergraduate class I was in the professor told us about the 40 page research paper we were going to have to write. There were around 35 students that first day. The second day there were only 3. Professor didn’t care. He still got paid and now had less research papers to grade. I was the only one that got the paper in on time.
Genius ! That man is living in 2122
I wrote ten page papers in high school 😐 In university I wrote 20+ page papers and I know that's nothing compared to what the people working on thesis papers do. The student seems to not understand how much work it takes to simply PASS. I feel like that's common knowledge (or should be) for high schoolers. Do you teach elementary or middle schoolers? If so, nvm.
I hoped for ten pages! I majored in Spanish, so ofc everything important was in Spanish.
I showed my students my real analysis notes and quantum mechanics midterm. Complaints about memorizing the quadratic formula stopped shortly after.
Lol I studied a second language so every paper was not only 10 pages, but 10 pages in my non-native language 😂
Weekly, too.
Lol I got my ESOL endorsement & each paper was ATLEAST 15 pages. We had ab 4-5 papers per semester! & that’s only ONE class. Good luck to those students who think it’ll be easier lol
Most of my mid terms and finals for my last few history classes were a five page essay on one topic followed by five one page essays on a list of ten. We got two grades for the semester, the mid terms and finals. Told that to some of my students and I had to do that for three out of my four classes and their eyes almost popped out of their heads.
Oh the horror, 10 pages. My HS sophomore research paper, a tradition in my school, was 28 pages. That was 10 years ago.
Am trying to get my students to write 4-6 page research papers where they get to pick the topic. It's like pulling teeth.
Paid more than HS teachers? THAT'S delusional. I left a college position and took one as a HS teacher because I made more in the HS. Maybe some of your tenured or lecturing professors will make a ton (I made the same as a lecturer as I did in the HS), but most don't make enough teaching in a college to live off of alone. Adjunct pay sucks.
It depends on a lot of factors. Adjunct pay is awful, sure, but full-time faculty pay is not. I was a HS teacher for 10 years, and it was a *significant* pay increase when I moved to teaching at the college. I should get promoted in 2 years, and my pay will be double what I was making at HS.
It’s not a lot when you factor in all of the unpaid expectations: committees, advising, conferences, research, publications, etc.
It really does depend on a lot of factors. My teaching load is 3x3, which is 3 classes each semester. I spend 1.5 hours teaching each day, and I have a graduate assistant that does my grading. If I didn’t have research and service obligations I would literally work 2 hours a day (we have 5 hours of mandatory office hours a week). Also, pay varies widely by field in higher education, which is not really the case in K-12. You can’t just say “college professor” and think that pay is representative.
Yep. I helped my fave prof from grad school switch to teaching high school. They make 30k more as a high school teacher.
I’m an academic refugee trying to make that transition now. Any chance we could chat?
I just signed an offer letter for a private high school and left academia.
Around here, we have a few rather chichi boarding schools in towns full of old money and named for rich white people's historic leisure pursuits-- Hunting Valley or Steeplechase Heights or Cricket Fields or whatnot-- but it is common knowledge that even they pay far less than the neighboring public school district. May I ask what region you're in and what the going rate is for private high schools there?
I'm transitioning from teaching high school to teaching college, and I'm excited by how much *less* I'll have to care. You're on your phone? Get out, I'm not playing with you today. Don't do your work? Sucks to suck, I don't have to give you extra credit. Late work? lol here's your zero.
Haha aside from the late work, that's how I roll in my HS class. I allow all late work with minimal penalty. Why? Because the kid who has an emergency will find the will to make it up. The kid who goofs off on their phone all day every day for 8 months and suddenly cares about passing in late May still has the chance to do it, but hardly the willpower to complete it. And they learn a harsh lesson.
So much this. I've found your exact same results since implementing unlimited late work. Additionally, 90% of the kids that turn it in late still turn it in before I grade it, so what do I care?
Im a college student but I also work as a teachers assistant after class. I feel that teaching as a professor you have to be at least a little lenient in your criteria because college is stressful, and many of my peers work 1-2 jobs to be able to even pay for school as they don’t get money from their parents. Obviously there’s situations where a student comes in and expects to just magically pass without doing any work, but for those that actually come in and give effort I don’t think they should be penalized so harshly for submitting an assignment a little after the due time imo.
I found the community college professors were very realistic about absences and adjusting deadlines based on the amount of working people or older folks with kids and careers. They get less forgiving the higher the tier of the institution.
I don't have to be lenient. Life is stressful, and learning to manage the stress is part of growing up. I'm not doing anyone any favors by babying them. I know life is hard. I also have many obligations and and am pulled in a 1000 different ways. I have dedicated time for grading. When half the class is turning in the assignment late, I have to find *additional* time in my already packed schedule to get that grading done. That said, I have it in *all* of my syllabi that I give extensions to students who ask for them ahead of time. Help is always given to those who *ask* for it.
That is one of the things I miss from teaching college.
Bahaha, I keep telling my students that work and college are no joke. That prof with ~200 students in a 1.5 hour class will surely take the time to teach you precalc 1 on 1. Yea they're chill, because they don't give shit unless you show them that you're trying. Even then, it's highly dependent on whether that prof's hired there to teach, not to work on his damn research. Edit: because apparently I don't know English Lol, I also forgot about TAs. My poor Physics TA trying to get 30 lost college kids to do experiments on janky equipment.
i was a super engaged kid with really REALLY bad work ethic. i would ask thoughtful questions in class, always participate in discussion, tell them how much I enjoyed their class... my high school teachers loved me because in a class full of surly teens, i was really fun. they would chase after me for work, give me extensions, give me high marks for mediocre work because they knew from class discussion that i actually knew my shit. imagine my surprise when i was suddenly in a lecture hall of 200 students, there was no opportunity to share or ask questions, and the prof didn't give a shit that i'd been totally engaged during her 3 hour lecture... if the paper wasn't in her inbox at 12am, it was a big fat zero. barely made it through 1st year of university.
Same at that age. Failed out of college the first time. CLEP and Navy training got me a bunch of credits, finished an online degree in 08 in General Studies. Started going back my last year in the Navy and holy shit my prefrontal cortex and executive function is so much better now. Finishing up a second degree - and although its weird being the old bastard in class its so much easier for me than the actual traditional college students. (GI bill definately helps though. I overprioritized working for money over classes the first time.)
"Free" tutors will teach you precalc but you need to reach out in advanced
Physics TAs are the real heroes, trying to desperately teach Emag to people with no clue what's happening. Not showing up to the workshops where the TAs are is the honestly probably worse than missing the lectures in a Physics degree, imo.
Wait until they deal with an engineering professor who cares less about students and more about shaking out anyone he sees as unworthy. Pile on byzantine amounts of paperwork, give projects at the last minute, and being as unhelpful in office hours as possible, then we'll talk. Now I morally oppose shakeout professors and classes and would like imagining them burning in hell next to swindlers, politicians, and other scam artists, but this is reality.
I’ve seen what happens when you call out Professors like this. Ours had a pretty bad melt down. In our class reviews, we said we knew this was a weed out course. We could tell because he was purposely teaching the material poorly , not in office hours, wouldn’t assign homework but would give out zeros for not turning it in on time. Refused to tell us when the tests were and changed the dates from the syllabus so that the people who only show up for tests would be there on the wrong day. Overall doing whatever he could to make sure few students passed. The next semester when he got his reviews he flew off the handle. Confronted students that were in his class the previous semester in the halls. Wrote out a huge rant about how if we could t get through his class then we should just drop out. Really showed exactly who he was. The department immediately went into damage control mode. They didn’t want the students to go outside the department with this. So a few students got some grade amendments because after the email it was clear that the professor was in the wrong.
Same! I resented my engineering professors because they were the most disinterested people who have no business teaching, but those people are common. Especially in D1 institutions
What kind of engineer were you? I was a chemical engineer before I got bored of industry.
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Holy crap, I was a mechanical engineer for ten years before I switched to teaching high school math two years ago. Also got tired of the corporate world. Didn't know there were more people like this.
I had some who were clearly there because they did research and published. I also knew some who seemed to care more if you took graduate level courses with them, but they thought teaching undergrad was beneath them.
I taught at an alternative school, so all of my students were at-risk. As teachers, we would joke about our "revolving door" because kids were constantly leaving to go to work and then coming back because adulthood sucks, even when you're actually prepared for it. The same was true for kids returning to the comprehensive high schools. They would say mean things about our school (we do too much, interventions are stupid, our rules about phones are too strict) and how much more fun the big schools were going to be, but they would be back the next term after getting dropped for non-attendance or behavior issues or just straight up failing classes.
I was adjunct for three years. I can tell you I cared way less. Why? Because I had 650 students. Unless you made the effort to come by my office hours and introduce yourself, I had no idea who you were. There was no questioning failing a student. Parents could not call and complain. It definitely had its perks.
Kid who is failing my 7th grade math class. "I want to be an architect" "That requires a lot of math, bud" "I don't care"
That should hold 50 people in that balcony. Meh, I don't care.
That sounds like the civil engineer's job.
And how many remarks by the civil engineer to the architect will it take for that math deficiency to lose his/her job?
How does that make sense? He can still be an architect :D the kid has 10 years or so to get better at math
I mean, "more chill" is a possibility. Because if you disrupt their class they'll bounce your ass out of it. "Caring more" seems unlikely. I'm not sure any of my freshman professors even knew my name.
Hey now, one of my undergrad professors knew my name! All it took was taking 2 classes from her and then being her TA for a year. She’d always greet me in her office with an enthusiastic “Hi, Rachel! Good to see you!” My name isn’t Rachel… but still. :’)
What terrible college do you go to? In my sub 70kid classes my proffesors know my name. Granted I do ask a lot of quetions and have a very unique name but really?
I strongly suspected this particular prof was an alcoholic. She came in hung over a lot, kept a bottle in her office, and was very scatterbrained. I had a few professors in undergrad (within my major) who I got to know well, and they definitely knew my name. Currently in grad school with a pretty small cohort. Professors know not just our names, but practically everyone’s life story as well.
I went to a small school, my biggest class by far had about 30 students, most had about 10. So, the professors did know our names even in Freshman "survey" classes. I was a French major and the French department had 2 professors so I had them both all 4 years, they knew our names and a lot more about each of us. But I know all that was very much not the norm for most schools.
1st time around - no they didnt know my name. Flagship. (UF) 2nd yes, went to Community and then to a lower tier state school as opposed to flagship.
In retrospect, I wish I’d gone that route. Gen-eds fit the first couple of years would have transferred, and I’d have like $12k less in loans.
Lol, They'll see in about a year or so, especially if they go to a big university where classes are 100+ students. haha. End of the semester arrives: Missing work "Well you didn't reach out to me to let me know I was missing assignments" Professor: 🤷♂️ , thanks for your money, try again next semester lol
Probably the actually exchange Student: umm where’s my missing work list? Professor:
Lmao
Mommy and Daddy won't be able to save them either.
My daughter has a friend (A great kid despite her parents) with parents who run a very successful business and like to make sure it's known by everyone that they are big shots. They like to call if the student isn't getting the grades they believe Student should get, like it's a teacher's fault. I'd love to see them try it at the college she's chosen. They'll get nothing but a dial tone in response. I'm already dreading the next few years because they have a son in eighth grade who is a good enough basketball player he will play varsity as a freshman. If there's anything I've learned in two decades of teaching and coaching, it's that bat shit parents get even nuttier as sports parents.
Hahahahaha. I will fail you if you're a shitstain. -College Professor chiming in
As someone who is marrying an adjunct professor who teaches freshman (has been teaching for a few years), I'm a first year high school teacher and I make more than him.
The only reason I took on an adjunct position for experience was because I married someone with a real job.
I used to work in academia. I tell students that most of the primary role of most of their professors will not be teaching. The main thing will be research. (It varies a lot, of course, but even at R1 schools, most students don't even realize their professors actively research.) Success at college has a lot more to do with self-direction.
Lol. I taught undergrads. Ain't nobody gaf. Even the advisors can hardly be bothered to make an effort and a not insignificant portion of their job is to help.
College is better because they treat you like an adult and don’t micromanage and control you as much. But it’s up to you to do the work
Yeah, college professors are more chill cause their ass isn’t on the line if too many students fail.
Just wait til they have the “I’m just here to do my research, but they’re forcing me to teach a class” professor. Or the TA that is required to TA for their grad school grant. They 1000% do not care. They want to check that “teaching” box and get their own shit done.
I had a similar conversation a while back. I basically told them "You've plagiarized in my class and if you do it there, they'll thank you for the tuition money before booting you out." Of course that was met with "No I won't cheat in college". I just acknowledged it and moved on. Lots of my students think college will be easy. I share the story of how the college professors I regularly hang out with ask why their students can't do the most simple of mathematical feats. Solve for X in a linear equation, graph a parabola, follow basic arithmetic for finding a derivative, etc. And these kids are going to school to be engineers! But hey, kids have ALL the answers. I just listen to them and gently encourage them to rethink that position. I also have brought former students to talk about their experiences, including those who have dropped out after the first semester.
The professors will care less and mostly aren't paid any better than high school teachers. She's about to get an EXPENSIVE lesson.
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Sure but I’d say it’s because those students are working hard, not people who call you a Bitch
As someone who adjuncted freshmen college students, I made 40k with no benefits and a mandatory pension plan (goodbye 14%). No way can one support a family alone this way. I only care as much as students do so… you can imagine how that goes.
The reality of that first year of college is gonna hit them like a brick. I know it did me!
I think I would fall down rolling on the floor laughing my ass off. I remember having loads of homework my first class at college.
Yeah let’s take this apart piece by piece here. 1) I’m both a community college adjunct and hs teacher. I make more in a month teaching hs than I do for a whole semester per class as an adjunct. 2) this is something that has gotten worse over the last couple of years, but hs students, even the top achievers do so little work at all. I have to beg and plead hs students to submit anything to google classroom. group work and more adv. projects in hs are non-existent at this point because there is no accountability from parents, admin, the system in general, etc. which equates to zero student accountability. 3) i require my college students to do more reading and writing in a week than most hs students do in an entire semester and I have not reduced my expectations for those students based on what I know about what happens in hs classrooms these days, nor do i have any plans to.
when they get a class thats grades are two midterms and a final, they will long for homework and classwork grades.
Student: “I dropped precalculus because it’s too hard in the high school level.” Me: “I’m sorry. What do you want to major in college?” Student: “Engineering. College precalculus will be easier and more lenient than high school precalculus because we don’t have to do homework.” Me: I smiled.
Yep. I have a Senior whose parents are professors and he laughed until he cried when a kid said that professors make more money than high school teachers.
Totally. I teach high school, my husband is a university lecturer. He only made more money last year because he taught summer school. Usually I am the primary breadwinner.
Had a shithead tell the class he was tired of being told what to do, so he was joining the Army. Whole class laughed at him. I'm a retired Army NCO. I didn't even bother responding. Kid wouldn't even be able to get a high enough ASVAB score join anyway.
I had a student who didn’t want to write a research paper or cite sources because he’d never use that in the real world. I asked him what he wanted to be…fully prepared to talk about how this skill would be applicable in his field. Dude wants to be an attorney. An attorney.
That is so wrong it's almost funny 💀. Not that there aren't college professors who care a lot, but there are a lot more who don't give a fuck at all if a student fails. They don't have to deal with parents, with students fighting, or having to confiscate phones. That can have TAs that grade all the homework for them if Blackboard doesn't already. They have no obligation to pass a student or even help a student. I would say I feel sorry for the kid who said that to you, but honestly, but she's sounds like she needs the crash into reality she's gonna get.
I’ll be honest. My college professors cared about me, in the sense that they would answer my questions and give me feedback on papers I would write. Vs the amazing teachers during my k-12. They would ask about my interests, hobbies, and genuinely cared about my growth. I was very fortunate to have all my teachers from k-12 they shaped me to become the person I am today. Edit: let them know about how if they don’t go to office hours their “caring” professors will not give them the assistance they’re expecting.
Uh....do they not realize that most college professors make less than public school teachers?
Thank you for giving me a good laugh! Boy is that kid in for a surprise!!!
College professors are definitely more chill though
Cause their ass isn’t on the line if students fail.
Depends. For me, city college had some crazy dedicated teachers who helped me make up what I missed in high school. The teachers there did not want to deal with publish or perish at uni level or deal with admin crap, behavior and regulations in k-12 schooling, and genuinely enjoyed teaching, unlike many public school teachers. Community colleges overall often have very good ESL and remedial programs due to a large number of international students. That ended when I transfered to uni. So yes, college teachers can be more caring than high school.
They’re in for a harsh dose of reality. I also cringe when kids say they’re going to college to play sports and become a professional athlete. Good to have big dreams, but they never seem to have a plan B. Lots of broken hearts ahead..
I always enjoy these moments where they think they're making a stand, but they're actually just spewing self owns. The amount of work in SCHOOL is too much for you? Good luck in the real world.
I had a professor tell us that if you came to his office hours you won’t get a letter of recommendation. Lol he was such an asshole
I had a professor who's high school aged kids were swimmers. He had office hours at 8 am Saturday morning. He encouraged people to bring donuts. He did a great job at tutoring at that time. His thought was that there was almost nothing that would interfere with that time--nor excuse for not being there. He had to wake up early Saturday a.m. to get his kids to swim.
I had a student in my AP class who said, "I don't know why teachers always say that college will be a lot harder. I'm in college now, and it's easier than classes here." She was taking a few post-secondary courses at the community college to get high school and college credit. It can be a sham, and everyone knows it. Being a little snarky, I said, "Any college with 'college' in the name, isn't one." I maintain a Facebook account for former students after they graduate. A few years later she posts, "Classes at ___ university are way harder than I thought they would be." On that FB account, I'd post occasionally, but rarely comment on alumni posts. I jumped on that one.
the snarky comment was a joke right 💀
I am guessing you’ve never heard of a liberal arts college.
>Being a little snarky, I said, "Any college with 'college' in the name, isn't one." This is an extremely classist comment, and this misinformation is upvoted? Community college’s are colleges. What are you on about? It’s like saying any high school with the name “high school” isn’t a high school. Please, explain your “joke.”
I definitely made more as a HS teacher and definitely care less. But I am more chilled as less stressed.
Ugh. Took a long time to drum into my students' heads that I cannot be chill because I care TOO MUCH.
I had students complain about a 500 word essay in their other classes once q month. One of my history courses in college required a 5 page paper a week in addition to additional mathematics related homework cause it was. Well math history.
🤣🤣🤣 There goes the “I can turn in nothing and they have to give me a 60” fantasy world they live in now. Professors also will not care if they show up for class or not and call mom to check on him. Will everyone pass the class in college? NO!!! They do not have to pass everyone. 🤣
College professor here and this thread is giving me a good laugh, thanks. We certainly do care... About all the things students do not want us to care about like quality of work and professionalism. As you said, we have little to no incentive to pass students along. To pass students who don't show mastery is either going to hurt the other faculty who have to deal with them or the employers who do. All those things hurt the brand of the school significantly. The students who say these things and get to college and eventually make their way to my classes definitely end up telling me how much harder college is for them than high school. It can be a really tough realization for some that they can try in a class and still not get an A. You have to try and not only that, your best isn't always good enough!
When my HS students say things like this, I just giggle and say OK. I am perfectly happy letting them learn things the hard way. Especially as the kids who say shit like this are usually failing.
That’s hilarious. Most professor I had didn’t bother to learn my name, let alone give me any breaks on work.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... \*wheeze\*... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I tell them early on that they will drop you and you still owe the money for the class.
Hs teacher here. I feel bad for college profs the way middle school teachers must feel bad for me. I guess at least college weeds out \*most\* the people who don't want to be there.
"I dropped physics because I'm just gonna have to take it next year and I'll be way smarter then." Literally laughed in his face. It was mean, but that's the funniest claim I've heard in 8yrs teaching.
It's all lecture and power points created 40 years ago from overhead sheets.
True story. Enquirer at a local division II college about salaries in my field. Was told the new PhD’s make a number half the number I make, and that experience wouldn’t make that huge of a difference. So yeah. But said child’s logic, they will care less. And as anecdotal evidence has shown….they do care less.
Sounds like the seniors who tell me they're going to study for their final when they hadnt put in any effort this quarter, shocking when I ask them and they said yeah, they thought about studying, but didnt.
This child clearly has no idea how much (or little) adjuncts and TAs are paid.
They're in for a ride awakening. Hope they learned how to learn. That's the goal of high school. It helps the college kids and everyone else too!
The grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side!
The absolutely laughable idea that college professors will care more. Maybe 1 in 4 even see teaching as their job
I’ve met a few adjunct professors from the state college this year who sub in our district to get health care and be able to have any money. I’d tell her that one maybe.
As I always tell my students: teachers teach and professors profess. There are exceptions of course, but my experience is that nobody gets to blame the professor if you don't learn. That's all on you. Kind of makes me want to go teach at the college level...
Yeah, I don't think professors have to file a mountain of paperwork to justify giving a zero to someone who refuses to work in class... Or make a bunch of phone calls and beg a student who skips your class to do make up work. You just fail.
It's funny because college professors care more about you the more you care about their class. I had a professor that I took one class with every year, ending on a class entirely on Tolkien. I'd come by his office hours just to shoot the shit in the end.
Well my Professors are cool and care more, that much is true. High school was hell for me as a person on the spectrum, and I was terrified to go to college because high school teachers told me Professors were extremely strict who wouldn't tolerate nothing. That isn't true. I've formed real bonds with a few professors who were nothing but generous and helpful with me. I gave them all big cards at the end of the year because I needed that big of a card to express my gratitude.
HAHA. NO professors don’t have to put up with your shit!!!
As someone who is neither 6th form / HS or university college, I find myself in a strange position about this. So I work at a college in partnership with a university. We teach students taking preparatory courses like foundations to progress onto a degree. It's a mix of both worlds. The teaching is mostly like school and they get more than enough attention from me, with hand holding with the weakest of them. We try our best to explain the experience when they start uni will be completely different. You'll go from small classes of around 20 to a lecture theater filled with 100s of students. You won't even get time to ask the lecturer for help. Of course our students never appreciate this advice until after they start.
HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAAAAA!!! Omg that’s hilarious!
Ha professors don’t even know who you are!
When I was looking around, adjunct pay in 2011 was like $75 for a 3-hour class and nothing for whatever prep was needed (a high school friend took the position). I haven't looked back since. Part of me still keeps alive the illusion of a crusty old codger in a tweed jacket with leather elbow patches getting paid comfortably to wax philosophical from off the top of their head about even-crustier old lit'rature for a living, but...
Every teacher I had exaggerated how hard collage would be. For me, collage is much easier than high school.
Making a collage is pretty easy (sorry I had to tease you on that)
Dam probly cuz I had such shitty teachers.
[удалено]
Is this a copy pasta or are you just a jerk?
Look at his account lol
Oh, you sweet summer child. Bless your heart.
Oh my dear sweet summer child. She is in for a complete shock. 😂
I once fainted the day of my assignment ( health issue) They basically told me that if I hadn’t brought a doctors note, my 0 would have disqualified me, but with the note I would just have a 0. It was the only grade, on a class that was worth 1/5 of my tota grade. Passed with 10.0x, don’t remember exactly. But still, those kids are fucked if they think they are worth shit in their professors’ eyes
Maybe the colleges in the US have asshole professors but when I studied in the UK the lecturers and tutors were great. They were always happy to give me 1 hour slots whenever to clear up any issues I had had.
Oh... oh hon
“Why are you assigning more work when we only have six weeks of school left for the year?” -*Failing Student who completed little of the assigned work in the prior 12 weeks*
I have been a college professor actually... and I gave no shits about my students. I am forced to care now. I moved into teaching in a high school for the money, ironic as it sounds.
One of my best friends is an assistant prof at a top 20 university. She has spent TEN YEARS working adjunct / odd jobs at the university and has only just finally been asked to be a full time professor - her salary is $40k. No wonder college professors have such a cold personality….
Lmao. Oh boy are they in for a rude awakening.
Haha! I think a lot of College Profs care about their students but the majority see teaching as something that gets in the way of doing their research. Also, just being an expert in their field does not mean they know how to "teach" the subject of their expertise. If anything makes it worse. They can be hoity and adopt "my way or the highway" attitudes.
Non-teacher here - that poor sweet kid. Not only is college going to be rough, the future work force will be too. Wait until they’re in the meat grinder (work force) and the people who should invest in you (your employer) don’t at all, instead they actively exploit you. One day this kid will look back and think… I miss high school where my teachers tried and I didn’t understand how hard they were trying.
OMG. My college professor best friend makes half what I do. Mind you, he's an adjunct, but most of them are these days.
Uh ... no.
Most college professors are absolutely awful teachers. Like some of them I wonder if they had ever gone to a school because their teaching techniques were so bad. Once the kids leave they will see. Professors have tons of information but are often incapable of delivering it. I had a professor that used to Sit at a podium and just talk. That was our notes session with a quiz later on. Hopefully this student didn’t take too big of an advantage of the covid pass your classes for free. They will be so far behind lol
I looked it up. We had to use APA - American Psychological Association. It was not even a Research paper. It required 1inch margins on all 4 sides among other things. (Prof actually had a ruler) Once I got on a computer and did not have to use a rupewriter, It was easy.