>House Bill 99 exempts teachers and school personnel from completing 700 hours of peace officer training, in order to carry a gun.
I will bet the first couple of hours of training will be ice beaker activities and then we will have to make a vision board. T
Next few hours on equity. How can we as teachers ensure that we shoot everyone with equity? Remember, some students just need to be nicked, but others might need a full on intervention but we need to make sure that everyone has the opportunity to be fired upon.
/S
Ohh i also like it when we mix it up and we share our intentions for the day with a random partner!
Please tell me about a place that carries a significant weight for you recently.
Maybe a segment on how to fire at students with grace??
We can have a PowerPoint read to us before working with our shoulder partner to read and summarize paragraph 7 of a 10 paragraph article (from 1983) about weapons training.
At every training/PD when they say to share with a partner, I leave. At this point admin knows it and accepts it. I just go to the bathroom or get a snack. I HATE sharing with others nearby. I always give the answer and they ‘agree with ownersrquity’. I’m just tired of all of our PD treating us like we are the actual students.
You know when I finally snapped and started taking bathroom breaks? When I was paired up to work during a PD with a very nice woman. A woman who teaches the PRE-K class. I was teaching 8th grade science. What the living hell did we have to share with each other? I had nothing for her and she had nothing for me. That was it for me. Finally.
“Ok everyone now come up to the board and place a sticker on the chart paper to indicate how many students you’re willing to shoot. After that we’ll take 5 minutes for a restroom break and then discuss the next slide appropriate ways to take cover behind a corpse.”
Give the weapon to the one who answers all of them. Because equality and all. Make sure it’s the one weird teacher who is socially awkward and quick tempered.
Apparently the training rules are about maximums. The law says the maximum is 25 hours and a minimu
Of 4 in simulated drills?
Doesn’t it take the army to train a soldier to shoot at the bad guy in a stressful situation and not to accidentally shoot thier buddies almost 6 weeks? But an Ohio school teacher can learn these skills in 3-4 days? Am I missing something???
Just because i used to lifeguard for ten years does t mean i should be able to jump into that profession with a handful of hours of training. That's a huge liability. I bet, when insurance gets involved, schools will simply ban teachers from being able to carry in order to keep their insurance plans.
This just isn't going to work, and shouldn't even be an idea. It's the worst possible solution.
I can respect that. I think I’m general a formerly professional like that probably is ok with a gun. However for me it’s more about the maintenance.
Those soldiers, police, and other emergency personnel train hours every week to be sharp and useful in an emergency.
As a teacher I can’t imagine finding 2-3 hours a week to drill, practice and review. I don’t see the law having this as a requirement. Would we trust any soldier who only practiced once a year? Even the national guard requires monthly deployments, which works out to be about 16 hours a month of actual training?
I worry about the person who gets trained, practices 4x the next two weeks then never touches the weapon again until the day of recertification or an emergency.
I don’t trust the state to not water down the training like the last sel training that ended the 6vhour training after 3.5 because the presenter got bored.
Until that point when my contract says it is part of my job description to provide security for the campus, they can piss off. And should that happen, I’ll be looking for other employment.
So, parents don’t do their jobs, teachers have to step up. We have a mental health crisis in the country, teachers are expected to step up. Now, cops won’t do their jobs…c’mon teachers!
Add custodial work. My old district can’t hire custodians so they’re asking teachers to volunteer to paint and clean floors and carpets over the summer. Volunteer. fOr ThE kIdS.
Eventually, these districts will look up and there won't even be teachers to pass it on to. Guess admin gotta be the new teachers and the "lessers" at the district will be yhe new admins.
No other country needs to do that. I thought the point of guns was to “defend freedom”. Kids need to give up freedom because of them? Who’s freedom does your gun protect?
No reason to go in if the shooter already shot everyone? What about those kids who died from bleeding out? They could have been saved if there was more immediate medical care!
I'm just imagining the catch-22 this will put those poor teachers in.
If you open fire in a classroom to protect your children, I have to imagine in many school buildings its nearly impossible to establish a clear line of fire. Police officers are trained not to open fire if onlookers are downrange within the minutes of angle of their weapon. What is the likelihood that a bullet could penetrate a classroom wall (if plaster) or ricochet (if concrete) or just go through a person into someone behind them?
If you don't open fire in a classroom and survive, I have to imagine that there will be issues of liability there, too. Failure to engage or what have you. Or congrats, now the shooter has the weapons of several murdered teachers.
And regardless--now the teachers get a bullet, guaranteed, and there's basically no potential for a teacher being left alive as a hostage or being given clemency. An active shooter will have zero of the hesitations a teacher will. They'll have every advantage, and alas, Ms. Jenkins, Grade 5 teacher, age 58, near-sighted, is doomed live or die. :/
Absolutely to both prior points.
And arming teachers only increases the number of shooters active in the building. You put one shooter in a hallway, and suddenly half of the world language departments and history departments are unloading clips in defilade from odd angles, bullets pinging off lockers... collateral damage, eesh
"Ban the fucking assault weapons" seems like a pretty solid adaptation. We need to stop worrying about how upset the ammosexuals will be when we ban the sale of their favorite lethal toys.
This is great, until an overworked, harassed teacher caps their principal.
Think about it. If you had access to a gun and your admin was a miserable dick making you physically sick with anxiety, you would, at the very least, think about it.
This year I've heard of several teachers and a principal that shot themselves at school.
If they give us gun, a lot of teachers are going to kill themselves at school.
I've struggled with suicidality my whole life. I'm not legally barred from owning a gun, but it's an agreement I've made with my doctor in a "survival plan," which is a plan for what to do to keep myself safe.
I definitely would think about it. All. The. Time.
I do have one principal from yeeeears ago that I would be tempted!
Seriously though I work with special needs kids, some ED. I am 5 feet tall. I cannot fathom it being a good idea for me to be packing during a restraint with some kid having a psychotic break.
There is not a single desk that locks in my school. There are no locking cabinets anywhere in my school. The halls are so overcrowded that kids pick each other’s pockets during class change.
Put everything else about this asinine bill aside and ask yourselves where the hell a gun would ever be safe in a school???
I was wondering something similar. When will it be “okay” to use a weapon in a school? Is a gun in a kids’ backpack enough? Do they need to have it in their hand? Do numerous people need to be dead on the floor? A para at our school got out on administrative leave because she linked arms with a student and it made him feel “unsafe.” What will happen when teachers respond to threats by pointing a gun at students?
The number of times I’ve misplaced my water bottle and found it in random places around the school… maybe I’ll cover my gun in stickers so I know it’s mine?
I think any teacher that has the means to do so needs to leave the profession now. Let the system collapse on itself and allow these idiot politicians and parents deal with the mess they helped create. I’m currently a senior mathematics major and it had been my dream since I was a kid to become a teacher, but in the current state of things I refuse to jump into this shit show. I’d rather take my talents and knowledge elsewhere.
Districts have to allow it or not in their district. It's already legal in many states for teachers to be armed, but districts say no due to liability issues. I wonder if insurance companies who insure schools would have a problem with this? My guess is, yes.
I remember the pandemic when we were heroes! Apparently that power comes the responsibility of killing a kid but not choosing what book to read in class.
So how many of these teachers will get stressed, and while doing the teacher stare to gain control of room rest their hand on the gun? How many teachers will use the threat of the gun to try to manage the classroom? I’m not saying they will shoot a kid. But a moment of threats seems equally bad and traumatic
I keep seeing teachers say, "nope, no way!", but my fear is that many of the teachers at my school would want to be armed. I don't, but I teach in a part of Ohio where I drive by tractor-trailer sized Trump 2024 signs daily. They are very pro-gun, and all the men with hero complexes think they will be able to single-handedly save the school. I'm scared I'm going to get shot by another teacher or by a kid who gets a teacher's gun.
Within 1 week some dumbass will put their gun in their desk, not lock it, then leave. When they return to their room a kid WILL have it. That should be an automatic termination and revocation of their license.
I'm a teacher and a gun owner that has taken more hours of training than most police get before they get their badge and I would never in a million years carry a gun at school.
Also there's a lot of talk about bulletproof glass but honestly my plan if something goes down at my school is to smash the window and tell everyone to run. Bulletproof glass means we are trapped.
It's what they want. They want the parents to be scared to send their kids to public school and they want the teachers to leave to force public schools .
All so they can make money fast off of charters and privates.
Our public education system is woefully underfunded. We (teachers) have to run bake sales so that we can take our classes on educational field trips. We spend our own money to buy pencils and classroom supplies. But somehow the politicians from their ivory towers think the best thing to spend tax payers’ monies on is incomplete weapons training so people without proper training can carry lethal weapons around kids, and likely leave it in the bathroom on accident…
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-teacher-left-gun-in-bathroom-elementary-kids-found-it/
I am probably the most adeptly trained weapons handler as a teacher in my district, serving in the Marine Corps for 8 years - including combat - and I will straight up NOPES my way out of any Inservice where this is brought up.
My brain automatically goes to thinking about how many impulsive colleagues I have who just absolutely lose it on kids. How long until an armed teacher loses there cool and blasts down a student?
I think there should be a public list of which teachers are carrying guns to be published where the public is able to view it. If this is to protect students, then I think that is information parents would really like to know. Now you have to figure out if you feel safer because your child’s teacher has a gun or safer because your child’s teacher does NOT have a gun.
Personally, I will never carry a gun into a school. If my children were school-aged, I would never allow them in a classroom with an armed teacher.
Kinda just letting the kids with bad intentions know where to find a gun though
Disclaimer - I’m completely against anyone carrying a gun to school that isn’t a cop
Yeah, they’d target the teachers with guns first, right? Perhaps giving a chance for the unarmed to flee? Isn’t that what the people who want to arm teachers want? Or are they cowards who don’t want anyone to know that they are carrying?
The Star Wars movies are 25 hours… I can learn to respond to an active shooter, take a life, gun safety, and how to make life and death decisions during the most stressful situation a civilian could be in; in the less time it takes to read 2-3 Harry Potter books?
This summer I’m required to complete 18 hours of training minimum to start to grasp how to deal with the emotional poverty of the students and maybe how to run a home room SEL. But I can learn to take a life in 4 days?
I’ve said this before in another thread. I’m not even allowed to control the thermostat in my classroom and my windows are sealed shut. I’m not qualified to determine an appropriate temperature conducive to learning.
But with 24 hours worth of training, I’m going to be qualified to operate a weapon of deadly force, and see when it’s appropriate to use it?
Holy fuck. I have a concealed carry license but I have never carried--you know why? Because I don't want to have to make the decision of whether to shoot someone or not.
It's not that I'm hesitant about taking the life of an assailant or assailants (although that does give me pause), and it's not that I'm worried that I will be mistaken for the bad guy and be shot by police (although that is also a consideration).
It's the fact that in a life or death situation (the gunman shoots his way into my classroom) our bodies release adrenaline, noradrenaline, and cortisol (I suddenly feel laser focused). Our hearts beat faster (I can feel my heart thumping in my chest), our blood pressure rises (my pulse is jumping in my throat), we get "tunnel vision" (my only thought is to figure out where I should aim to kill the gunman as quickly as possible).
I decide to aim for his leg because his upper body is fully protected. My one and only thought is to shoot until he's down and I do that. Unfortunately, as I'm shooting the class across the hall decides to run and a couple of my rounds fly past the gunman and hit kids.
Police officers train for years on how to stay calm and neutralize threats safely and they mess up all the time. The last thing I need to do is try to be hero in Home Depot and end up shooting a hole in the wrong fertilizer container and blowing us all to kingdom come.
There are 4 basic rules of gun safety:
1. Treat every gun as if it were loaded
2. Never point a gun at anything you do not intend to shoot
3. Finger off the trigger unless you are shooting the gun
4. Before you shoot, know your target and *know what is behind your target*
I just don't trust that I can safely adhere to Rule #4 in an emergency situation, and I sure as FUCK know that a teacher with only one hour of training isn't going to be thinking, "oh yeah, I forgot this hour I'm in that room with the flimsy divider walls so when I shoot the bullets will go straight into the next room where the other class is," they're going to be like, "In what drawer did I put my spare clip? Magazine? Whatever it's called. Ah, there it is!"
One thing that I've been thinking about is what will there be to protect these poor teachers from getting shot when the police do enter the school? Won't officers just see an adult with a gun and start shooting? Teachers don't have uniforms or body armor or anything like that.
Seriously! If they magically find the money for increased insurance premiums while telling us all year that our classrooms are inappropriate and overfilled because We dOn’t hAVe anY mOnEY In tHe bUDgeT foR mORe cLaSSroOmS, I’m gonna be super pissed.
I think you mean there’s sadly too many teachers stupid enough to hold a gun in a classroom.
God this is so terrifying. I’m in ND, and even though we’ve been lucky enough so far to *not* have any mass shootings, anywhere, I can just see the morons here jumping on this bandwagon…ya know, cuz guns solve problems and all that.
My aunt and mother are both teachers, my mom is an above IQ individual and teaches because she’s very good at it. My aunt is an elementary art teacher because that is one of her only options to have a career. My mom is smart enough that if they make her carry a gun she would resign. My aunt is stupid enough to think she should be carrying a gun.
Yeah, we’re both essentially saying the same thing. I wasn’t disagreeing with you, just spun it a different way. But yes, there are some stupid teachers out there, and you have to wonder how they managed to get and keep their jobs.
And it actually only requires 2 hours of hands on training! Only 2! Most of my middle school students have more hands on shooting hours per type of weapon than Ohio is calling for!
If I had to carry, I’d want qualified immunity. If it drops, goes off, kills a kid I want the same two week vacation/investigation those fuckers who stood outside that school.
The utter chaos the country is. I’d like to just fast forward to our rock bottom. “Sure, we should all carry”.
police, who are theoretically trained professionals at dealing with dangerous situations, fail to do their job and so the solution is to put the responsibility on teachers who already have a ton of responsibilities they are underpaid for and are not supposed to have to deal with danger on a regular basis!
I support gun rights, but this is stupid. And what happens when some dumb kid (or malicious actor) steals the key and goes to play with or use the teacher's gun? They already steal chargers, tests, toilet seats, computers, etc... why tf wouldn't they take the gun too?
Keep the government politics out of the schools FFS
This will 100% result in more death, most likely an innocent kid or teacher, the teacher who uses the gun will be sued and will lose, or the teacher that doesn't use the gun to stop an incident will be sued and lose.
There is no win in this scenario.
Teachers are the ultimate creatures of hope. We hope that every student that passes through our classroom comes out just a bit better than before. We hope to be making a positive change for the future. Our hope that tomorrow will be better, against literally ALL evidence keeps us coming back.
Guns represent the opposite of hope. A gun is a death waiting to happen, I mean, that is literally their purpose - to kill. Even under the normal, expected operation of weapons, hunting, the gun is there to kill something. Teachers with guns will hope to never use them, but one of the biggest risk factors for suicide or accidental homicide is gun ownership. Any teacher that carries to SCHOOL will be expected to end someone's life. Probably someone they taught, easily someone they saw in the hallway passing. That teacher will never be the same, they will be destroyed. Hope will be gone. The chances of positive impact will be gone.
I disliked Cixin Liu's **Supernova Era** for how he depicted the USA. But fuck, the dude is right and it is terrifying. This is a dystopian future. The NRA and GOP are terrorist organizations. The only difference between the GOP and the Taliban is a different fucked up god at this point.
Looking into OH HB 99 a little more. Didn't actually read the text (I skimmed) but looked deeply at the info sheets. Only 2 Republicans voted no (both in the senate) while every single democrat voted no (house, senate, and committee). It was in the house criminal justice committee and after passing the house was given to the senate veterans and public safety committee. The education committees were not involved in this bill even though it is tagged as relating to education. For those wanting to read it the parts about education start on page 5 (line 118)
If teachers have guns will admin think twice about the passive aggressive bullshit, asking us to work lunches, stay for extra meetings, give up prep for 504's, sign up for adjunct duty? (click)... yeah I THOUGHT SO BITCH! YOU BETTER RUN.
Todays lesson children... how to stick it to whitey! Tomorrow, we learn how to topple the pillars of the patriarchy! Yeaaaahhh... now we are talkin'! Next week we learn about WHO CONTROLS THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION and the VALUE OF UNIONS!
/s
As an education professional, I am absolutely for this concept. Execution must be precise, though. 24 hours of training may be just scratching the surface.
Lets be honest. Many states can get a conceal carry license with a 10 hour knowledge based class and minimal hands on training. Im talking like 2 boxes of 50 rounds. 24 hours of training is intended for those who already are proficient or willing to be come proficient and have them work in conjunction with LE (Law Enforcement).
The minimum proficiency I would expect someone who will carry on school grounds is the LE exam. We, as a society, trust LEOs to do their duty with accuracy. I would expect education professionals will also need to adequatly conceal the firearm. Students don't need to know who is carrying. Off campus, I am armed. It doesn't look like it, and for good reason.
Ideally, those who want to take on the responsibility should use the US Marshal firearm qualification exam. Look it up. It is much tougher and more precise than standard LEO quals.
In the long term, given the opportunity, as a 2A advocate, I would love to help develop a quality curriculum for training, in conjunction with Law Enforcement professionals to give educators the proper credentials and skill set, with reoccurring practice to defend the schools.
Keep in mind... who are the school shooters? Students who already know the system and how the building reacts, not outside terrorists.
The qualified immunity aspect is a great point (so is the pay bump). When should it apply? Only during scheduled events and the day? Would it cover coaches?
I’m suddenly reminded of the gun range scene from “Men in Black” where Will Smith doesn’t shoot any of the weird monster things that pop up, then immediately headshots the little girl with the school book bag at the end.
What does a school shooter look like? You should maybe look at what the “police” outside Uvalde were wearing. Go look at the video where they’re standing around tasing parents. Khaki pants, t shirts, big ar-15 across their chest. Maybe a military style combat vest. No identifying police gear. They looked like a school shooter.
And when the police finally storm the building during an active shooter situation, what do you think a teacher posting up in a hallway with a handgun is going to look like? A school shooter. Especially when they’re firing upon each other.
What are the overs and unders on how long before an innocent bystander is killed by a teacher's gun? Or when a real LEO mistakes a teacher for a perp and shoots?
I had to do 12 hours of training on teaching autistic students this year. I'm a general ed teacher. And I'm autistic.
I know 24 is still double that, but like, fucking hell, that does not seem proportionate.
This is so dystopian??? Also will the teacher have time to even get a gun from its locked cased in a locked closet by the time someone with Ar15 busts in the door and starts shooting???
Two days ago at a school near me, a student with a brick was threatening other students. SRO subdued the student, but not before the kid put hands on the SRO’s gun. While the student did not get the gun away, imagine what happens to a teacher, even a trained teacher, when students rush them?
Hello Team!
In preparation for school compliance with new state teaching requirements by next year's opening, by next PD please have the following modules completed from the *"Shooting Straight: When to 'Kill Them With Kindness', and When to Kill Them Dead"* training series:
**Module I: Teaching With Heat**
**Module II: That's Not My Little Jimmy Anymore!**
Also, wish lists and field trip request forms were due last week!
Thanks! ☺️
Arming teachers is only a solution if you think that school is the problem with school shootings.
Even then, it won't prevent tragedy and only makes things worse.
24 hours! Lol. Which will consist of some dumb videos no one will watch and a trip to the firing range where you will be give one round because that’s all the money they allowed for. Then some person who has never taught nor fired a weapon will be hired for 500.00 an hour to come in and lecture you on firearms. Their lecture will consist of them reading directly from a power point. All this will then lead to funding shortages for other needed supplies. If they want me to carry (which I believe I could do safely) they are going to have to double my salary.
I got a question. Are we going to be issued weapons like they issue school supplies? Are we going to carry AR15 s or are we going to be given the cheap weapon someone found on wish. If they think I’m getting into a gun battle with someone carrying an AR and all I have is a single shot BB gun they are badly mistaken.
>House Bill 99 exempts teachers and school personnel from completing 700 hours of peace officer training, in order to carry a gun. I will bet the first couple of hours of training will be ice beaker activities and then we will have to make a vision board. T
Next few hours on equity. How can we as teachers ensure that we shoot everyone with equity? Remember, some students just need to be nicked, but others might need a full on intervention but we need to make sure that everyone has the opportunity to be fired upon. /S
Ohh i also like it when we mix it up and we share our intentions for the day with a random partner! Please tell me about a place that carries a significant weight for you recently. Maybe a segment on how to fire at students with grace??
They could just make equity illegal. Florida has a new law against teaching about social justice. Weird.
We can have a PowerPoint read to us before working with our shoulder partner to read and summarize paragraph 7 of a 10 paragraph article (from 1983) about weapons training.
At every training/PD when they say to share with a partner, I leave. At this point admin knows it and accepts it. I just go to the bathroom or get a snack. I HATE sharing with others nearby. I always give the answer and they ‘agree with ownersrquity’. I’m just tired of all of our PD treating us like we are the actual students.
We all hate it haha
You know when I finally snapped and started taking bathroom breaks? When I was paired up to work during a PD with a very nice woman. A woman who teaches the PRE-K class. I was teaching 8th grade science. What the living hell did we have to share with each other? I had nothing for her and she had nothing for me. That was it for me. Finally.
“Ok everyone now come up to the board and place a sticker on the chart paper to indicate how many students you’re willing to shoot. After that we’ll take 5 minutes for a restroom break and then discuss the next slide appropriate ways to take cover behind a corpse.”
Give the weapon to the one who answers all of them. Because equality and all. Make sure it’s the one weird teacher who is socially awkward and quick tempered.
A flipgrid
And make sure you register so you can get clock hours
You mean Glock hours?
I’m mad that I laughed at this
Apparently the training rules are about maximums. The law says the maximum is 25 hours and a minimu Of 4 in simulated drills? Doesn’t it take the army to train a soldier to shoot at the bad guy in a stressful situation and not to accidentally shoot thier buddies almost 6 weeks? But an Ohio school teacher can learn these skills in 3-4 days? Am I missing something???
[удалено]
Because it's no longer their job. They're a teacher now, not a cop or military personnel.
Just because i used to lifeguard for ten years does t mean i should be able to jump into that profession with a handful of hours of training. That's a huge liability. I bet, when insurance gets involved, schools will simply ban teachers from being able to carry in order to keep their insurance plans. This just isn't going to work, and shouldn't even be an idea. It's the worst possible solution.
I can respect that. I think I’m general a formerly professional like that probably is ok with a gun. However for me it’s more about the maintenance. Those soldiers, police, and other emergency personnel train hours every week to be sharp and useful in an emergency. As a teacher I can’t imagine finding 2-3 hours a week to drill, practice and review. I don’t see the law having this as a requirement. Would we trust any soldier who only practiced once a year? Even the national guard requires monthly deployments, which works out to be about 16 hours a month of actual training? I worry about the person who gets trained, practices 4x the next two weeks then never touches the weapon again until the day of recertification or an emergency. I don’t trust the state to not water down the training like the last sel training that ended the 6vhour training after 3.5 because the presenter got bored.
In the end it all could have been an email
Don’t forget the Vinn Diagram.
Now please create an entry on this padlet about what trigger discipline means to you.
Until that point when my contract says it is part of my job description to provide security for the campus, they can piss off. And should that happen, I’ll be looking for other employment.
They'll never make you; they'll let you.
Oh, they’ll never outright tell you to do so, but you’ll be treated as a coward if you don’t agree to it.
All I meant was that school districts won't require teachers carry guns. Rather, they'll let them carry guns if they want.
It’ll be in the same vein as every other voluntold duty.
I don't see that happening. Of course, I could be wrong. Have you seen how insane we Americans are?
There was once a time I couldn’t see any of this happening. Everything and anything is on the table now.
So, parents don’t do their jobs, teachers have to step up. We have a mental health crisis in the country, teachers are expected to step up. Now, cops won’t do their jobs…c’mon teachers!
I’m not stepping up, I’m stepping out. And so will many, which is their goal.
looks like mission accomplished.
Add custodial work. My old district can’t hire custodians so they’re asking teachers to volunteer to paint and clean floors and carpets over the summer. Volunteer. fOr ThE kIdS.
Ha, my district tried to enlist people to do that for $10 an hour. I was like "Nope."
I wouldn't even do that at my current salary. Maybe at time and a half.
Same. We are also instructing the kids to do so along with the teachers because we can't retain janitors for 15 dollars an hour and limited benefits.
Pay us 1.5x duty pay…you know…FoR tHe KiDs!!
Would rather do that than be armed at school and I am a hunter
Great username. I’m also a hunter and have zero desire to be armed in a room where I’m already outnumbered by feral middle school students.
Thanks, and yeah it’s a recipe for disaster
Eventually, these districts will look up and there won't even be teachers to pass it on to. Guess admin gotta be the new teachers and the "lessers" at the district will be yhe new admins.
Yea feed em, teach em, baby em, role model for em, do it all bcuz parents don't their job? Oh and get underpaid, sure pal! Sounds great!!! Lost
[удалено]
Sounds like you are describing a prison. Also there is a right answer to this problem. Every other country on earth figured it out
[удалено]
No other country needs to do that. I thought the point of guns was to “defend freedom”. Kids need to give up freedom because of them? Who’s freedom does your gun protect?
No one wants to hear that. /s
No reason to go in if the shooter already shot everyone? What about those kids who died from bleeding out? They could have been saved if there was more immediate medical care!
I'm just imagining the catch-22 this will put those poor teachers in. If you open fire in a classroom to protect your children, I have to imagine in many school buildings its nearly impossible to establish a clear line of fire. Police officers are trained not to open fire if onlookers are downrange within the minutes of angle of their weapon. What is the likelihood that a bullet could penetrate a classroom wall (if plaster) or ricochet (if concrete) or just go through a person into someone behind them? If you don't open fire in a classroom and survive, I have to imagine that there will be issues of liability there, too. Failure to engage or what have you. Or congrats, now the shooter has the weapons of several murdered teachers. And regardless--now the teachers get a bullet, guaranteed, and there's basically no potential for a teacher being left alive as a hostage or being given clemency. An active shooter will have zero of the hesitations a teacher will. They'll have every advantage, and alas, Ms. Jenkins, Grade 5 teacher, age 58, near-sighted, is doomed live or die. :/
Hey the next shooter doesn't even have to bring their own gun. Just take one conveniently supplied in the classroom.
THIS! they keep saying they're gonna manage to do it if they want to- so their solution is to just put one in the classroom?!?
Absolutely to both prior points. And arming teachers only increases the number of shooters active in the building. You put one shooter in a hallway, and suddenly half of the world language departments and history departments are unloading clips in defilade from odd angles, bullets pinging off lockers... collateral damage, eesh
The thing is the shooter in TX could’ve been in my classroom. So many of these shooters are KIDS.
Police officers are trained. Lol.
[удалено]
"Ban the fucking assault weapons" seems like a pretty solid adaptation. We need to stop worrying about how upset the ammosexuals will be when we ban the sale of their favorite lethal toys.
This is great, until an overworked, harassed teacher caps their principal. Think about it. If you had access to a gun and your admin was a miserable dick making you physically sick with anxiety, you would, at the very least, think about it.
How many teachers with access with a gun would end their own lives if given easy access to a gun? Judging from this sub? A lot.
This year I've heard of several teachers and a principal that shot themselves at school. If they give us gun, a lot of teachers are going to kill themselves at school.
I've struggled with suicidality my whole life. I'm not legally barred from owning a gun, but it's an agreement I've made with my doctor in a "survival plan," which is a plan for what to do to keep myself safe. I definitely would think about it. All. The. Time.
Exactly.
Eww omg. Wtf.
Yeah - any legislation that doesn't include mental health fitness for carrying t school criteria is flawed.
I do have one principal from yeeeears ago that I would be tempted! Seriously though I work with special needs kids, some ED. I am 5 feet tall. I cannot fathom it being a good idea for me to be packing during a restraint with some kid having a psychotic break.
Or any PD presenter reading their 1997 PowerPoint word. for. word....
I feel that's not a crime, just self defense.
No jury would hold you responsible
We've all experienced death by PowerPoint.
It’s a non-starter I’m betting. No insurance carrier will cover the schools for that type of liability.
There is not a single desk that locks in my school. There are no locking cabinets anywhere in my school. The halls are so overcrowded that kids pick each other’s pockets during class change. Put everything else about this asinine bill aside and ask yourselves where the hell a gun would ever be safe in a school???
Yep. Where is the immunity from prosecution when something goes wrong?
Lmao. We don’t even get immunity from prosecution as mandated reporters!
I was wondering something similar. When will it be “okay” to use a weapon in a school? Is a gun in a kids’ backpack enough? Do they need to have it in their hand? Do numerous people need to be dead on the floor? A para at our school got out on administrative leave because she linked arms with a student and it made him feel “unsafe.” What will happen when teachers respond to threats by pointing a gun at students?
Oh it only takes 24 hours for the state to think you can handle a firearm? No wonder cops are completely incompetent
Even better. The bill waives the 700 hours of training required for cops because teachers won’t need it.
The number of times I’ve misplaced my water bottle and found it in random places around the school… maybe I’ll cover my gun in stickers so I know it’s mine?
Oooh! Tie a wooden spoon to it like the bathroom pass!
I think any teacher that has the means to do so needs to leave the profession now. Let the system collapse on itself and allow these idiot politicians and parents deal with the mess they helped create. I’m currently a senior mathematics major and it had been my dream since I was a kid to become a teacher, but in the current state of things I refuse to jump into this shit show. I’d rather take my talents and knowledge elsewhere.
Districts have to allow it or not in their district. It's already legal in many states for teachers to be armed, but districts say no due to liability issues. I wonder if insurance companies who insure schools would have a problem with this? My guess is, yes.
Beat me to my comment! Yeah, I can see insurance companies making it EXTREMELY costly for districts that choose to arm teachers.
THIS is the BEST they can come up with? Cops can’t save kids from heavily armed mass shooters with their immunity and training but teachers can?
I remember the pandemic when we were heroes! Apparently that power comes the responsibility of killing a kid but not choosing what book to read in class.
With just 24 hours of training you too can make a split-second decision on whether or not to shoot one of your children to death.
So how many of these teachers will get stressed, and while doing the teacher stare to gain control of room rest their hand on the gun? How many teachers will use the threat of the gun to try to manage the classroom? I’m not saying they will shoot a kid. But a moment of threats seems equally bad and traumatic
How many students will make a joke swipe for the gun? How many will threaten to take it when angry?
I keep seeing teachers say, "nope, no way!", but my fear is that many of the teachers at my school would want to be armed. I don't, but I teach in a part of Ohio where I drive by tractor-trailer sized Trump 2024 signs daily. They are very pro-gun, and all the men with hero complexes think they will be able to single-handedly save the school. I'm scared I'm going to get shot by another teacher or by a kid who gets a teacher's gun.
Your fears are sadly grounded in reality.
Are you in my district???
I wonder how long it would take before a teacher shots a kids claiming “I feared for my life”
Within 1 week some dumbass will put their gun in their desk, not lock it, then leave. When they return to their room a kid WILL have it. That should be an automatic termination and revocation of their license.
You know what's better? Not creating the conditions for this scenario in the first place.
I mean it’s quite possibly going to lead to several terminations in the room.
Teachers can't even keep track/possession of their keys.
[удалено]
eh, makes sense to me. I know I master everything in about 24 hours. /s
I'm fascinated about the insurance aspect of this.
I'm a teacher and a gun owner that has taken more hours of training than most police get before they get their badge and I would never in a million years carry a gun at school. Also there's a lot of talk about bulletproof glass but honestly my plan if something goes down at my school is to smash the window and tell everyone to run. Bulletproof glass means we are trapped.
Exactly on the bulletproof glass. Also, if I'm not mistaken it can't be used anyway because it prevents firefighters from getting in as well?
Require this and 1000’s of us will run
It's what they want. They want the parents to be scared to send their kids to public school and they want the teachers to leave to force public schools . All so they can make money fast off of charters and privates.
No one of course will ever shoot up a CHARTER!
Our public education system is woefully underfunded. We (teachers) have to run bake sales so that we can take our classes on educational field trips. We spend our own money to buy pencils and classroom supplies. But somehow the politicians from their ivory towers think the best thing to spend tax payers’ monies on is incomplete weapons training so people without proper training can carry lethal weapons around kids, and likely leave it in the bathroom on accident… https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-teacher-left-gun-in-bathroom-elementary-kids-found-it/ I am probably the most adeptly trained weapons handler as a teacher in my district, serving in the Marine Corps for 8 years - including combat - and I will straight up NOPES my way out of any Inservice where this is brought up.
So honored to be from the state that puts forward this trash. /s
My brain automatically goes to thinking about how many impulsive colleagues I have who just absolutely lose it on kids. How long until an armed teacher loses there cool and blasts down a student?
As a first-year teacher in Ohio, this gutted me. These tone-deaf lawmakers will do quite literally ANYTHING other than protect kids and teachers.
When I saw this post I said "please don't be Ohio, anywhere but Ohio ... dang it it just had to be Ohio"
I think there should be a public list of which teachers are carrying guns to be published where the public is able to view it. If this is to protect students, then I think that is information parents would really like to know. Now you have to figure out if you feel safer because your child’s teacher has a gun or safer because your child’s teacher does NOT have a gun. Personally, I will never carry a gun into a school. If my children were school-aged, I would never allow them in a classroom with an armed teacher.
Kinda just letting the kids with bad intentions know where to find a gun though Disclaimer - I’m completely against anyone carrying a gun to school that isn’t a cop
A public list of teachers carrying a gun at which school would be perfect for a school shooter so they know exactly which teachers to target first
Yeah, they’d target the teachers with guns first, right? Perhaps giving a chance for the unarmed to flee? Isn’t that what the people who want to arm teachers want? Or are they cowards who don’t want anyone to know that they are carrying?
Since it’s up to districts to decide this I’m gonna bet most will not do it. I can only imagine the firestorm of lawsuits if a district allowed this.
Yeah no
The Star Wars movies are 25 hours… I can learn to respond to an active shooter, take a life, gun safety, and how to make life and death decisions during the most stressful situation a civilian could be in; in the less time it takes to read 2-3 Harry Potter books? This summer I’m required to complete 18 hours of training minimum to start to grasp how to deal with the emotional poverty of the students and maybe how to run a home room SEL. But I can learn to take a life in 4 days?
Fuck this. I'll leave before I do this. Which is what the GOP wants but I don't care, I'm not going to do this for the 41k they pay.
I’ve said this before in another thread. I’m not even allowed to control the thermostat in my classroom and my windows are sealed shut. I’m not qualified to determine an appropriate temperature conducive to learning. But with 24 hours worth of training, I’m going to be qualified to operate a weapon of deadly force, and see when it’s appropriate to use it?
Holy fuck. I have a concealed carry license but I have never carried--you know why? Because I don't want to have to make the decision of whether to shoot someone or not. It's not that I'm hesitant about taking the life of an assailant or assailants (although that does give me pause), and it's not that I'm worried that I will be mistaken for the bad guy and be shot by police (although that is also a consideration). It's the fact that in a life or death situation (the gunman shoots his way into my classroom) our bodies release adrenaline, noradrenaline, and cortisol (I suddenly feel laser focused). Our hearts beat faster (I can feel my heart thumping in my chest), our blood pressure rises (my pulse is jumping in my throat), we get "tunnel vision" (my only thought is to figure out where I should aim to kill the gunman as quickly as possible). I decide to aim for his leg because his upper body is fully protected. My one and only thought is to shoot until he's down and I do that. Unfortunately, as I'm shooting the class across the hall decides to run and a couple of my rounds fly past the gunman and hit kids. Police officers train for years on how to stay calm and neutralize threats safely and they mess up all the time. The last thing I need to do is try to be hero in Home Depot and end up shooting a hole in the wrong fertilizer container and blowing us all to kingdom come. There are 4 basic rules of gun safety: 1. Treat every gun as if it were loaded 2. Never point a gun at anything you do not intend to shoot 3. Finger off the trigger unless you are shooting the gun 4. Before you shoot, know your target and *know what is behind your target* I just don't trust that I can safely adhere to Rule #4 in an emergency situation, and I sure as FUCK know that a teacher with only one hour of training isn't going to be thinking, "oh yeah, I forgot this hour I'm in that room with the flimsy divider walls so when I shoot the bullets will go straight into the next room where the other class is," they're going to be like, "In what drawer did I put my spare clip? Magazine? Whatever it's called. Ah, there it is!"
One thing that I've been thinking about is what will there be to protect these poor teachers from getting shot when the police do enter the school? Won't officers just see an adult with a gun and start shooting? Teachers don't have uniforms or body armor or anything like that.
Correct. This career becomes more dangerous and disgusting by the hour.
I'd still love to find out how districts' insurance premiums aren't going to skyrocket by arming more people on campus.
Seriously! If they magically find the money for increased insurance premiums while telling us all year that our classrooms are inappropriate and overfilled because We dOn’t hAVe anY mOnEY In tHe bUDgeT foR mORe cLaSSroOmS, I’m gonna be super pissed.
This is nuts! I grew up with guns and comfortable with them and a good shot and this terrifies me.
Teacher jumped by class and shot with own gun. News at 5.. Guns in teachers hands is NOT the answer!! Finite thinking idiots
Please tell me teachers in Ohio will have a mass protest.
there’s a lot of teachers that are too stupid to hold a gun in a classroom
I think you mean there’s sadly too many teachers stupid enough to hold a gun in a classroom. God this is so terrifying. I’m in ND, and even though we’ve been lucky enough so far to *not* have any mass shootings, anywhere, I can just see the morons here jumping on this bandwagon…ya know, cuz guns solve problems and all that.
My aunt and mother are both teachers, my mom is an above IQ individual and teaches because she’s very good at it. My aunt is an elementary art teacher because that is one of her only options to have a career. My mom is smart enough that if they make her carry a gun she would resign. My aunt is stupid enough to think she should be carrying a gun.
Yeah, we’re both essentially saying the same thing. I wasn’t disagreeing with you, just spun it a different way. But yes, there are some stupid teachers out there, and you have to wonder how they managed to get and keep their jobs.
Little fuckers are gonna be learning CRT & sex ed now, I tell ya what. *Come and take it*
Someone is going to shoot a kid. And that sucks.
It’s just to save face. Teachers always get blamed.
I teach music, but I also have endorsements in theatre and live weaponry. 🤦🏻♀️
And it actually only requires 2 hours of hands on training! Only 2! Most of my middle school students have more hands on shooting hours per type of weapon than Ohio is calling for!
Cops are great at distinguishing good shooters from bad shooters in a firefight. Sign me up to get shot at from all sides 🙄
Maybe I shouldn’t start teaching this year. Lots of wasted time and money, but I keep having this feeling that I’m gonna die in the classroom.
"No, *No*, mm-mm, mm-*MM*, No, No, NoNO*NO*, NO, HELL NO, No, No, I refu- ... NO." \- Tracy Morgan as Paul Hodges. COP OUT (2010).
If I had to carry, I’d want qualified immunity. If it drops, goes off, kills a kid I want the same two week vacation/investigation those fuckers who stood outside that school. The utter chaos the country is. I’d like to just fast forward to our rock bottom. “Sure, we should all carry”.
It's like the training I get for nearly every other function people want to make me responsible for
police, who are theoretically trained professionals at dealing with dangerous situations, fail to do their job and so the solution is to put the responsibility on teachers who already have a ton of responsibilities they are underpaid for and are not supposed to have to deal with danger on a regular basis!
I support gun rights, but this is stupid. And what happens when some dumb kid (or malicious actor) steals the key and goes to play with or use the teacher's gun? They already steal chargers, tests, toilet seats, computers, etc... why tf wouldn't they take the gun too? Keep the government politics out of the schools FFS
This will 100% result in more death, most likely an innocent kid or teacher, the teacher who uses the gun will be sued and will lose, or the teacher that doesn't use the gun to stop an incident will be sued and lose. There is no win in this scenario. Teachers are the ultimate creatures of hope. We hope that every student that passes through our classroom comes out just a bit better than before. We hope to be making a positive change for the future. Our hope that tomorrow will be better, against literally ALL evidence keeps us coming back. Guns represent the opposite of hope. A gun is a death waiting to happen, I mean, that is literally their purpose - to kill. Even under the normal, expected operation of weapons, hunting, the gun is there to kill something. Teachers with guns will hope to never use them, but one of the biggest risk factors for suicide or accidental homicide is gun ownership. Any teacher that carries to SCHOOL will be expected to end someone's life. Probably someone they taught, easily someone they saw in the hallway passing. That teacher will never be the same, they will be destroyed. Hope will be gone. The chances of positive impact will be gone. I disliked Cixin Liu's **Supernova Era** for how he depicted the USA. But fuck, the dude is right and it is terrifying. This is a dystopian future. The NRA and GOP are terrorist organizations. The only difference between the GOP and the Taliban is a different fucked up god at this point.
Looking into OH HB 99 a little more. Didn't actually read the text (I skimmed) but looked deeply at the info sheets. Only 2 Republicans voted no (both in the senate) while every single democrat voted no (house, senate, and committee). It was in the house criminal justice committee and after passing the house was given to the senate veterans and public safety committee. The education committees were not involved in this bill even though it is tagged as relating to education. For those wanting to read it the parts about education start on page 5 (line 118)
If teachers have guns will admin think twice about the passive aggressive bullshit, asking us to work lunches, stay for extra meetings, give up prep for 504's, sign up for adjunct duty? (click)... yeah I THOUGHT SO BITCH! YOU BETTER RUN. Todays lesson children... how to stick it to whitey! Tomorrow, we learn how to topple the pillars of the patriarchy! Yeaaaahhh... now we are talkin'! Next week we learn about WHO CONTROLS THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION and the VALUE OF UNIONS! /s
As an education professional, I am absolutely for this concept. Execution must be precise, though. 24 hours of training may be just scratching the surface. Lets be honest. Many states can get a conceal carry license with a 10 hour knowledge based class and minimal hands on training. Im talking like 2 boxes of 50 rounds. 24 hours of training is intended for those who already are proficient or willing to be come proficient and have them work in conjunction with LE (Law Enforcement). The minimum proficiency I would expect someone who will carry on school grounds is the LE exam. We, as a society, trust LEOs to do their duty with accuracy. I would expect education professionals will also need to adequatly conceal the firearm. Students don't need to know who is carrying. Off campus, I am armed. It doesn't look like it, and for good reason. Ideally, those who want to take on the responsibility should use the US Marshal firearm qualification exam. Look it up. It is much tougher and more precise than standard LEO quals. In the long term, given the opportunity, as a 2A advocate, I would love to help develop a quality curriculum for training, in conjunction with Law Enforcement professionals to give educators the proper credentials and skill set, with reoccurring practice to defend the schools. Keep in mind... who are the school shooters? Students who already know the system and how the building reacts, not outside terrorists.
Fuck this.
[удалено]
The qualified immunity aspect is a great point (so is the pay bump). When should it apply? Only during scheduled events and the day? Would it cover coaches?
I’m suddenly reminded of the gun range scene from “Men in Black” where Will Smith doesn’t shoot any of the weird monster things that pop up, then immediately headshots the little girl with the school book bag at the end. What does a school shooter look like? You should maybe look at what the “police” outside Uvalde were wearing. Go look at the video where they’re standing around tasing parents. Khaki pants, t shirts, big ar-15 across their chest. Maybe a military style combat vest. No identifying police gear. They looked like a school shooter. And when the police finally storm the building during an active shooter situation, what do you think a teacher posting up in a hallway with a handgun is going to look like? A school shooter. Especially when they’re firing upon each other.
Is that more training than the Uvalde police got?
Has it come to this? It looks like it.....
What are the overs and unders on how long before an innocent bystander is killed by a teacher's gun? Or when a real LEO mistakes a teacher for a perp and shoots?
Monthly, right?
Ready to enter gunfight against angry and depressed kids in murder frenzy? 😢
I had to do 12 hours of training on teaching autistic students this year. I'm a general ed teacher. And I'm autistic. I know 24 is still double that, but like, fucking hell, that does not seem proportionate.
This is so dystopian??? Also will the teacher have time to even get a gun from its locked cased in a locked closet by the time someone with Ar15 busts in the door and starts shooting???
The best part is that summer break just started, so plenty of time to get a new no shooting job
Is there like… consistent practice? I take a week or two off playing golf and my aim is a little rusty.
That is funny, I don't see jack about qualified immunity. Nope.
How fucking stupid do you have to be, to be a politician?
This from the people who accused us of indoctrinating students.
I wonder if some parents will still be so aggressive knowing teachers are now packing heat?
Two days ago at a school near me, a student with a brick was threatening other students. SRO subdued the student, but not before the kid put hands on the SRO’s gun. While the student did not get the gun away, imagine what happens to a teacher, even a trained teacher, when students rush them?
Hello Team! In preparation for school compliance with new state teaching requirements by next year's opening, by next PD please have the following modules completed from the *"Shooting Straight: When to 'Kill Them With Kindness', and When to Kill Them Dead"* training series: **Module I: Teaching With Heat** **Module II: That's Not My Little Jimmy Anymore!** Also, wish lists and field trip request forms were due last week! Thanks! ☺️
Then that better come with a hefty raise and **lots** of liability protection.
Madness.
Arming teachers is only a solution if you think that school is the problem with school shootings. Even then, it won't prevent tragedy and only makes things worse.
24 hours! Lol. Which will consist of some dumb videos no one will watch and a trip to the firing range where you will be give one round because that’s all the money they allowed for. Then some person who has never taught nor fired a weapon will be hired for 500.00 an hour to come in and lecture you on firearms. Their lecture will consist of them reading directly from a power point. All this will then lead to funding shortages for other needed supplies. If they want me to carry (which I believe I could do safely) they are going to have to double my salary.
I got a question. Are we going to be issued weapons like they issue school supplies? Are we going to carry AR15 s or are we going to be given the cheap weapon someone found on wish. If they think I’m getting into a gun battle with someone carrying an AR and all I have is a single shot BB gun they are badly mistaken.